Swine Flu

[RainMaker]

Haven't followed this too closely and I'm sure it's just the media blowing up a story, but is anyone else a little worried about this? It seems like one of those things that has the potential to really blow up across the world. Probably not a big issue in the states, but other countries that just don't have our kind of medical systems and infrastructure.

We're due for a major flu epidemic.

U.S. declares public health emergency as swine flu spreads - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/04/26/swine.flu/index.html)

[duckman]

From the looks of it, it has the about less than 10% morality rate in Mexico right now. That means that it'll just give us the sniffles.

[Lathum]

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/963/200pxthestandcover.jpg (http://img402.imageshack.us/my.php?image=200pxthestandcover.jpg)

[sterlingice]

Absolutely love the book :)

SI

[Crim]

Haven't followed this too closely and I'm sure it's just the media blowing up a story, but is anyone else a little worried about this? It seems like one of those things that has the potential to really blow up across the world. Probably not a big issue in the states, but other countries that just don't have our kind of medical systems and infrastructure.

We're due for a major flu epidemic.

U.S. declares public health emergency as swine flu spreads - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/04/26/swine.flu/index.html)

Me too.

[gstelmack]

From the looks of it, it has the about less than 10% morality rate in Mexico right now. That means that it'll just give us the sniffles.

They're already reporting that the US cases are more mild.

[gstelmack]

Doctors: No definitive answers on flu deaths among young - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/03/02/flu.deaths/index.html)

200,000 hospitalized and 36,000 die from the flu or complications from it every year. This has to get a lot bigger to reach a typical year.

[Warhammer]

Yep, media making a epidemic out of a pig's sniffle.

[Karlifornia]

Well, I already wear a surgical mask at all times, so I'm not worried. My best friend said it ruined his wedding pictures, but if he doesn't want me to be safe and healthy, IS HE REALLY MY BEST FRIEND???

[chinaski]

Well, I already wear a surgical mask at all times, so I'm not worried. My best friend said it ruined his wedding pictures, but if he doesn't want me to be safe and healthy, IS HE REALLY MY BEST FRIEND???

i lol'd. more of a chortle really.

[Comey]

I think the bigger story here is what I've seen in some articles, where it says this flu is a combination of "swine, bird, and human flu viruses", which has led some scientists to believe this is a synthetic strain.

That, if true, is the far worse part of this story...at least to me.

[BYU 14]

Well, I already wear a surgical mask at all times, so I'm not worried. My best friend said it ruined his wedding pictures, but if he doesn't want me to be safe and healthy, IS HE REALLY MY BEST FRIEND???

You're invited on all future vacations we take.....just for the photo ops.

[cuervo72]

I think the bigger story here is what I've seen in some articles, where it says this flu is a combination of "swine, bird, and human flu viruses", which has led some scientists to believe this is a synthetic strain.

That, if true, is the far worse part of this story...at least to me.

Just wait until the turducken flu hits.

[Lathum]

Just wait until the turducken flu hits.

maybe that's why Madden retired.

[General Mike]

I think I have it.

[ColtCrazy]

Wasn't the bird flu going to wipe out humanity? I'll worry when we get some random animal's flu, like the titmouse flu or something.

[Buccaneer]

Wasn't the bird flu going to wipe out humanity? I'll worry when we get some random animal's flu, like the titmouse flu or something.

No, SARS was going wipe us out before the bird flu. I remember some discussions here about the media blowing up the bird flu and got criticized for it. As long as the govt health officials are on top of things, no reason to get the ignorant public in a panic.

[panerd]

SARS, killer bees, bird flu, Y2K, ebola... yawn. Like gstelmack said above a shitload of people die from the flu every year. Now a couple hundred will die and people will start wearing masks like it's the end of the world.

[sterlingice]

This one isn't going to be it, probably. But one of these days, there's going to be one so I'm a bit worried when people just shurg them all off like this could never happen.

And, frankly, I thought the coverage on this was reasonable or at reasonable as we can expect the current media to be. It's pretty loudly shouted that in Mexico there are some deaths but here in the US, there have been all mild strains.

SI

[lungs]

I probably already had swine flu. I had an awful flu that turned into pneumonia. And I happen to work with Mexicans. I got over it just fine.

[mauchow]

My wife was with someone this weekend who was with someone who was in Texas and he was in the hospital for three days with the flu.....

I'm fucked.

[panerd]

This one isn't going to be it, probably. But one of these days, there's going to be one so I'm a bit worried when people just shurg them all off like this could never happen.

And, frankly, I thought the coverage on this was reasonable or at reasonable as we can expect the current media to be. It's pretty loudly shouted that in Mexico there are some deaths but here in the US, there have been all mild strains.

SI

Agree with you that one of these will be big, but the media is just so irresponsible in scaring everyone and blowing up stories to generate ratings. Here is the TOP story on the local St. Louis NBC affiliate’s website...

No swine flu cases reported in Illinois | ksdk.com | St. Louis, MO (http://www.ksdk.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=173588&catid=3)

That's just sad.

[ColtCrazy]

I forgot about SARS. That one did worry me a bit, mainly because I was traveling more at the time.

Oddly enough, foot and mouth is the one that worries me the most (though it's hardly an epidemic) just because of my time in England.

[JonInMiddleGA]

On the other hand, when you're missing part of a lung (like my wife) then anything that's a serious respiratory illness tends to get your attention.

[Crim]

Well, I already wear a surgical mask at all times, so I'm not worried. My best friend said it ruined his wedding pictures, but if he doesn't want me to be safe and healthy, IS HE REALLY MY BEST FRIEND???

heh nice

[Chief Rum]

I think the bigger story here is what I've seen in some articles, where it says this flu is a combination of "swine, bird, and human flu viruses", which has led some scientists to believe this is a synthetic strain.

That, if true, is the far worse part of this story...at least to me.

Biological warfare?

[Kodos]

Don't fear the Reaper!

[sterlingice]

Don't fear the Reaper!

Greatest intro for a made for tv movie ever, perhaps :D

SI

[Crim]

Greatest made for tv movie ever!

I agree with your edited comment, SI.

[stevew]

From the looks of it, it has the about less than 10% morality rate in Mexico right now.

As opposed to having a 90% immorality rate. What a bunch of mexican whores

[Karlifornia]

As opposed to having a 90% immorality rate. What a bunch of mexican whores

I've already given two girls Swine Flu. It's too bad, I really thought the three of us could have been friends.

[Axxon]

Swine flu, isn't that the past tense of When pigs fly?

[sterlingice]

Swine flu, isn't that the past tense of When pigs fly?

I'm always a fan of a good (bad) grammar joke :)

SI

[duckman]

As opposed to having a 90% immorality rate. What a bunch of mexican whores

Fuck! :banghead:

[JeeberD]

I have a Mexico vacation booked started May 12. Gotta decide pretty quick if I'm going to cancel it or not, dammit...

[Icy]

It's all over the news here in Spain and we have already 1 confirmed ill guy that came past week from holidays in Mexico, 20 more guys are in hospitals being examined as they have the flu too but of course it could be the standard one.

Some of the biggest hotel resorts in Mexico are owned by Spanish companies and they had a huge drop off in the stock market today along with airlines that do that route and travel agencies (most of Spanish go to Mexico for honeymoon, and we are starting the weddings season as spring is approaching).

Exactly what we need in the middle of an economic crisis...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

This is obviously a government conspiracy to kill off the drug gangs in Mexico.

[Neon_Chaos]

The government here in the Philippines is on alert and they've dusted off the thermal scanners in the airports used during the SARS outbreak a couple of years back.

This is mostly a preventive measure, though, as there have been no reports of human cases of swine flu here in the PI.
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[SteveMax58]

Man...feel like I dodged a bullet the other night. I almost ate the Mexican style DiGiorno pizza...but opted for the Supreme at the LAST MINUTE!!

I never really believed in Angels or things like that...but something (or somebody) just made me change my mind.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Ok, everyone's thinking it, I'll just say it. Start of the zombie apocalypse?

[CraigSca]

Anyone else remember getting their swine flu shot in the 70's?

[panerd]

What about the children!!!

[Raiders Army]

Just eat some cured bacon.

[Neon_Chaos]

It's relatively safe to eat pork. It cannot be transmitted by eating properly cooked pork.
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[terpkristin]

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/swine_flu.png
xkcd - A Webcomic - Swine Flu (http://xkcd.com/)

On a side note, I don't think I have swine flu, but I think I've got a bug of some sort. Light-headedness, nausea/stomach gurgling. No fever though, thank goodness. Not the time I want to be out of town on business travel, though. :(

/tk

[Dr. Sak]

This all adds to my fear of pigs.

[JPhillips]

The pigs distracted us with zombies and now they're going to destroy mankind.

[SteveMax58]

[Corny Joke]If you die of Swine Flu...do you go to Hog Heaven?[/Corny Joke]

[MJ4H]

No, sorry. We're full over here.

[JediKooter]

I blame the police.

[Kodos]

Oh no! The egg McMuffin I ate had Canadian Bacon on it. I am doomed!

[Passacaglia]

[Corny Joke]If you die of Swine Flu...do you go to Hog Heaven?[/Corny Joke]

Not bad. Mine was going to be something about pigs flying. You know...swine flew...eh.

[panerd]

How do they take a swine flu victim to the hospital? A hambulance.

Have you heard the latest news story about the swine flu, it's really a big boar.

[JeeberD]

Apparently there are possibly some cases in the Houston area...

http://blogs.chron.com/sciguy/archi...04/post_79.html

• The disease may have reached Harris County. There are rumors circulating in the Texas Medical Center this morning of a few suspected cases of swine flu in Harris County. Houston Health and Human Services spokeswoman Kathy Barton said, "We are in active surveillance mode. We have cases we are interested in, but we are only going to talk about confirmed cases." Confirmation may come later today.



...and a school district near San Antonio shut down completely for at least a week.

SCUCISD Classes Canceled All Week - Health News Story - KSAT San Antonio (http://www.ksat.com/health/19295627/detail.html#-)

SCUCISD Classes Canceled Due To Swine Flu

SAN ANTONIO -- The Texas Department of State Health Services on Sunday announced that all 14 schools and district facilities in the Schertz-Cibolo-Universal City Independent School District will be closed effective immediately after several more flu-like illnesses have been discovered in the department's ongoing swine flu investigation.

The closure will be in effect for at least a week for 11,000 students and 1,400 district employees. All extracurricular activities also were cancelled.

[Autumn]

Man...feel like I dodged a bullet the other night. I almost ate the Mexican style DiGiorno pizza...but opted for the Supreme at the LAST MINUTE!!

I never really believed in Angels or things like that...but something (or somebody) just made me change my mind.

That was a close call. I think maybe there's a reason you are still here on earth. Something you were meant to do.

[JediKooter]

Swine flu and now an earthquake. Mexico is doomed!!! DOOOOOMMMMED!!

[molson]

It's pretty ridiculous to see the media freak out so much about something that has caused about 150 deaths worldwide.

It was only about 40 years ago that about 35,000 died in the U.S. alone from the Hong Kong Flu. And only about 90 years since the Spanish flu killed 675,000 here. How would the media cover something like that today? It boggles the mind.

[terpkristin]

It's pretty ridiculous to see the media freak out so much about something that has caused about 150 deaths worldwide.

It's something new for them to report, so they don't have to keep depressing us with news on the economy...

/tk

[JediKooter]

I don't know about you guys, but, all this swine talk makes me want to get a BLT.

[sterlingice]

I'm having pork chops tomorrow night, doing my part in the fight

SI

[JediKooter]

Wonder how business is going at the Piggly Wigglys...

[panerd]

What I don't get about this story is why the intense media coverage? Obviously most everyone is mocking it on here but I also consider this site to be above average intelligence. But even my friends and coworkers think it is way overblown. (And I sadly can't say that about stuff like American Idol or the Octomom) Where is the audience for this story?

I do have to admit though that I am fascinated watching this thing pick up steam and go completely over the top. I am actually actively checking sites during work to see what ridiculous story they have next. 40 more people sick in NY! Add that to the probably 30,000 that have the other flu's and you have quite a story.

Not even saying it isn't news. A 100 died in Mexico and the flu is now in this country so I expect some coverage. But it seems as though the 3rd world nature of Mexico is more of the culprit for the deaths than the virus. And while I would hope in a perfect world that 100 deaths makes the news there are like 5 stories a day from other countries with high death tolls that don't get even page 5 coverage. Maybe it will become big but they do this so often and so early with every story that when something catastophic does happen they will have cried wolf so many times we won't know what hit us.

[gstelmack]

The only part of this that is unusual is that it's been hitting people in their prime who apparently don't get hit this hard. Also that swine flu doesn't normally jump person to person. However, here in the US it's acting like a fairly typical flu, which can (and does) kill, but for the most part is just making people sick.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I guess I'm the guy who doesn't understand why the coverage is a big deal.

WHO just went to the 4th of 6 levels of alert, with the next level likely to bring travel & trade restrictions, and level 6 being an official pandemic. More importantly though, to borrow the phrasing from one of the many articles "the issue is a never-before-seen strain that people have little if any natural immunity to". Meanwhile the U.S. is cautioning against travel to Mexico, the EU (or the head of their health agency unofficially) is cautioning against travel to Mexico or the US, and several countries including Russia and Taiwan are starting to quarantine travelers who show symptoms while China wants pretty much any inbound traveler has so much as sneezed in the past couple of weeks to check in with them upon landing.

I mean, how much bigger does this need to get before it warrants some attention instead of another 3 minutes on some other topic that the average person can't do jack shit about either? This is the newest charging rhino on the block, whether it stops charging before it makes contact or not doesn't mean it isn't heading this way with a bad attitude.

[Masked]

Is the question why is this news or why is the media coverage over the top and borderline silly?

JiMG and gstelmack listed several of the reasons why this is news and why WHO and others are reacting as such - direct human to human transmission, novel strain, young, otherwise healthy victims, and perhaps unusually high mortality (iirc, Spanish Flu killed less than 5% of those infected).

Does poor media coverage really suprise anyone?

[Passacaglia]

This article gets bonus points since it mentions an actuary:

Millions and Millions Dead | The Onion - America's Finest News Source (http://www.theonion.com/content/news/millions_and_millions_dead?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)



SCIENCE & TECHNOLOGY
Millions and Millions Dead
JUNE 2, 1999 | ISSUE 35•21


As the body count continues to rise, a shaken nation is struggling to cope in the wake of the mass deaths sweeping the world population. With no concrete figures available at this early stage, experts estimate at least 250,000 U.S. citizens have died in the last month alone, with death tolls across the globe reaching into the millions.

The wave of deaths has left a brutal aftermath, rocking survivors with feelings of loss and horror, traumatizing the American cultural landscape to its core and leaving behind emotional devastation some say may take years to heal.

What's worse, experts say, the crisis shows no signs of letting up any time soon.

"Oh, my God," sobbed Edina, MN resident Elizabeth Kendrick, 42, whose father, retired insurance actuary Gilbert Ploman, 68, lost his life last Thursday at Shady Villa Nursing Home. "He was a good man, a kind man who never did anything to deserve this terrible fate. Why did something like this have to happen? Oh, God, why?"

As wrenching as Kendrick's grief is, she is just one of the countless Americans who feel the anguish that continues to tear the country apart. Across the nation, in millions of homes in thousands of cities, similar scenes played out, as survivors gathered to mourn, pray, and somehow pick up the pieces while attempting to make sense of it all.

In Fargo, ND, Tom Blake, 89, attended the funeral of his wife Edith, who died of a brain tumor Thursday night. In Augusta, ME, family members broke down in tears, overwhelmed by news of the hang-gliding death of 26-year-old outdoorsman Lance Blaine. And in Cicero, IL, no explanations could comfort the family of accidental auto-erotic-asphyxiation victim Bob Carpenter. Everywhere, those left behind comforted each other as best they could, looking for some kind of hope.

"This epidemic knows no bounds, follows no common denominators, and crosses all demographic lines without impunity," said Harvard University's Gregory Jameson. "Although senior citizens and the terminally ill have seemed to suffer the most casualties, this syndrome does not discriminate. Rich and poor, young and old, people of all races, creeds and backgrounds imaginable have succumbed to its relentless advance."

Friends and family comfort potential victims of the death epidemic in Manila.

"We are, all of us, at risk," Jameson said, "and medical science is powerless to stop it."

As devastating as the crisis is here at home, it may be worse overseas. World Health Organization officials are reporting similar death rates across the globe, with widespread casualties reported from as far away as Somalia, Borneo, Brazil, Malaysia and Luxembourg.

In the wake of such suffering, there is no way to adequately explain the tragedy. Yet the seemingly random nature of the mass deaths has made them even harder for the survivors to understand.

"In a situation like this, it's only natural to want to assign blame," said Dr. Frederick MacDougal of the National Center for Infectious Diseases, who recently lost a third cousin to a degenerative nerve disorder. "But the disturbing thing about this case is that no one factor is at fault. People are dying for such a wide range of reasons—gunshot wounds, black-lung disease, falls down elevator shafts—that we have been unable to isolate any single element as the cause."

"No one simple explanation can encompass the enormous scope of this problem," MacDougal added. "And that's very difficult for most people to process psychologically."

As experts continue to struggle for a solution, the nation is left to cope with the crisis one day at a time. But as it stands, the death rate is so high that most of the resources of the world's funeral homes are being called upon to deal with the vast quantities of bodies. Virtually every mortician in the nation is currently employed in some capacity to meet the demand, and more corpses are arriving daily. The cost of the non-stop interments exceeds billions of dollars each year.

As more people succumb each day, hospitals and doctors are finding themselves on 24-hour call. Taxed to the limit, the nation's health-care infrastructure is proving inadequate to handle the needs of sick and dying patients. And though sales of health aides and pharmaceuticals have skyrocketed, nothing has stemmed the tide.

Despite efforts to keep pace with the death toll, for now, all the nation can do is watch and wait. Since the crisis began, a vast majority of Americans have lost at least one family member, close friend, co-worker, distant relative, neighbor or peripheral acquaintance, or know someone who has. Yet even for the lucky few who remain unscathed, the fear remains.

"Our family has been spared so far, but for how long?" asked mother of four Karen Beemis, of Scottsdale, AZ. "Every night I lay awake in bed worrying and thinking, 'This is going to get one of us someday, too. Who will be the first? Grandma? Grandpa? My great-uncle Ted in Michigan?' There's just no way of knowing."

Meanwhile, as the world continues to grapple with this seemingly unstoppable threat, the deaths—and the sorrow, fear and pain they have wrought—continue.

As Margaret Heller, a volunteer at a clinic in Baltimore put it, "We do everything we can. But for most of the people we try to help, the sad truth is it's only a matter of time."

[flere-imsaho]

So, I consult for pharmaceutical companies, including my current client. Given the number of MDs, Ph.Ds and RNs floating around the office, this has obviously been a big topic of conversation. Of course, however, these people are super-informed.

Here's my understanding of why this is important:

Any flu virus has the potential to become a pandemic, and the actions being taken by the WHO and CDC are good practice, common sense actions for this type of threat at this point in the process.

The news media are taking these actions, combining it with little science, extrapolating out to the worst case scenario, and trying to get their audiences all riled up. That's not to say that the worst case scenario won't happen, but it should be noted that worst case scenarios usually don't happen.

While there are some aspects of the current virus that are of unique note, there's still too little data, and too small of an incidence rate, to draw strong conclusions.


Based on what I'm hearing, there's certainly no need to panic, but the recommendations for restriction on travel certainly do make sense until more is definitively known about the virus. While it's not outside the realm of possibility that this will turn out to be a particularly virulent or devastating strain of flu, it's probably more likely that we'll see a few dozen or even a few hundred more deaths and then it'll fade. So, it's worth keeping up on, but it's not "OMG PANIC" time yet.

[JediKooter]

I guess my problem with how this has been covered...according to the CDC website, annually, 250k to 500k people die EACH YEAR from the flu and we have a little over 100 that have died. Where is the media alarm bells from years past when up to half a million people have died from the flu?

100 compared to up to half a million seems a bit off kilter here.

[Mustang]

I love some of these questions on the 'ask the Dr.' portion on CNN


"Is there a way to irradiate money in order to attempt to kill this virus on coins and dollar bills to attempt to stop this spread through currency, or should we use bank cards only in order to decrease the cross contamination currency could cause."

"I was wondering as far as the swine flu is concerned, would it be tied to the rocket launch that N. Korea sent into the ocean last month? It just seems crazy that the majority of the infected are in the costal states, especially mexico, which is directly across from Korea. I believe that the virus seems to be man-made and could have possibly been sent into the ocean to where it would contaminate the water."

"wonder if we were so smart years ago allowing the commercial air carriers to cut back on the number of air exchanges on flights. As I recall, to save fuel, the carriers reduced the air exchanges from over 30 to less than 5 per hour. I always turn off the overhead air vent when flying. At least anecdotally, it seems obvious that with such a reduction, the incidence of flight-related airborne illnesses has risen. Perhaps the governent should focus its attention on this aspect of the crisis and encourage the carriers to re-up the number of in-flight air exchanges."

"What are the chances of this being a genetically created virus by a pharmaceutical company who will miraculously present the cure a month from now and generate millions in profit."



*L*

oooookay.

[flere-imsaho]

"I was wondering as far as the swine flu is concerned, would it be tied to the rocket launch that N. Korea sent into the ocean last month? It just seems crazy that the majority of the infected are in the costal states, especially mexico, which is directly across from Korea. I believe that the virus seems to be man-made and could have possibly been sent into the ocean to where it would contaminate the water."


Twenty bucks says this question came from one S. Palin, Alaska.

:D

[sterlingice]

Mustang- the sad thing is that while I'm sure some of those are the gems- there are many more that are just as bad :(

SI

[Lathum]

I love some of these questions on the 'ask the Dr.' portion on CNN


"Is there a way to irradiate money in order to attempt to kill this virus on coins and dollar bills to attempt to stop this spread through currency, or should we use bank cards only in order to decrease the cross contamination currency could cause."

"I was wondering as far as the swine flu is concerned, would it be tied to the rocket launch that N. Korea sent into the ocean last month? It just seems crazy that the majority of the infected are in the costal states, especially mexico, which is directly across from Korea. I believe that the virus seems to be man-made and could have possibly been sent into the ocean to where it would contaminate the water."

"wonder if we were so smart years ago allowing the commercial air carriers to cut back on the number of air exchanges on flights. As I recall, to save fuel, the carriers reduced the air exchanges from over 30 to less than 5 per hour. I always turn off the overhead air vent when flying. At least anecdotally, it seems obvious that with such a reduction, the incidence of flight-related airborne illnesses has risen. Perhaps the governent should focus its attention on this aspect of the crisis and encourage the carriers to re-up the number of in-flight air exchanges."

"What are the chances of this being a genetically created virus by a pharmaceutical company who will miraculously present the cure a month from now and generate millions in profit."



*L*

oooookay.


None of these questions surprise me. Anyone intelligent is actually at work and doesn't have time to surf the internet for information about a superflu.

Except all of us that is.

[Lathum]

I have a Mexico vacation booked started May 12. Gotta decide pretty quick if I'm going to cancel it or not, dammit...

My wife's boss had a business trip planned to Mexico and canceled it. Not so much worry about dying there but picking something up and being quarantined.

[albionmoonlight]

I guess my problem with how this has been covered...according to the CDC website, annually, 250k to 500k people die EACH YEAR from the flu and we have a little over 100 that have died. Where is the media alarm bells from years past when up to half a million people have died from the flu?

100 compared to up to half a million seems a bit off kilter here.


I think that (1) the media knows that fear = ratings, and (2) because this virus is new and unknown, there is a chance that it could really take off due to a lack of natural immunity to it.

[Cringer]

Our first school closing down here in this area. I blame San Antonio and Houston though, not Mexico. It clearly jumped over us from Mexico and those snobby bastards brought it back down here just to screw us.

SWINE FLU HITS VALLEY? | school, district, students - Now - TheMonitor.com (http://www.themonitor.com/articles/school_25898___article.html/district_students.html)

[Lathum]

My wife is flying from Seattle to Boston today. Hopefully they wait to shut down the airlines until she gets back.

actually...

[Cringer]

Huh. I haven't paid much attention to this really, but as of yesterday morning I have had a slight fever, body aches, and a cough that kills my lungs. I just read those are symptoms. The cough is the only thing bugging me so...oink, oink. :)

[Lathum]

Huh. I haven't paid much attention to this really, but as of yesterday morning I have had a slight fever, body aches, and a cough that kills my lungs. I just read those are symptoms. The cough is the only thing bugging me so...oink, oink. :)

Maybe we need to ask CNN if this can be passed through the interwebs

[Lathum]

just got this email

I just wanted to drop a note to remind people of university policy with
the flu. As of last night, there were no reported cases of swine flu
in Washington state. To prevent any issues here, the UW has asked that
students who display flu systems 1) refrain from attending class and 2)
GO TO HALL HEALTH to be checked out. If you are displaying such
symptoms please also, email me and your TA if you will be missing an
assignment and email your TA to let them know you are missing class.
Notification should be made before rather than after assignment due
dates if possible. When scheduling make ups or extensions after you get
better, please be sure you bring documentation from Hall Health. Hall
Health has a standard notification letter for faculty of student
illness. Remember, Hall Health provides one "free" visit for students
each quarter for check up or minor illness visit. This would count as
such a visit.

Please be sure to review the emails sent by UW in regards to this
evolving issue.

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Prof. XXXXXXXXXXX

I have a mid term in that class on Thursday. I wonder how many cases of Swine Flu will be popping up between now and then :)

[Mustang]

Prof. XXXXXXXXXXX?

Didn't know you were a mutant.

[Mustang]

Mustang- the sad thing is that while I'm sure some of those are the gems- there are many more that are just as bad :(

SI

Unfortunately that is correct. There was one in there about sanitizing slot machines since the elderly visit casinos a lot and they are susceptible to the flu.

Give them an A for creativity at least.

[Lathum]

could you imagine this happening in NY or some other major US city?

Authorities ordered restaurants to serve only takeout food and also mandated the closing of bars, clubs, theaters, pool halls, gyms, sport centers and convention halls until May 6, said Juan Jose Garcia Ochoa, a top city government official.

[JeeberD]

could you imagine this happening in NY or some other major US city?

That's my big worry...either all of my employees getting sick and us having to shut down, or everyone becoming shut-ins and not going out to eat. Either way, that puts a huge damper on business...

[Lathum]

That's my big worry...either all of my employees getting sick and us having to shut down, or everyone becoming shut-ins and not going out to eat. Either way, that puts a huge damper on business...

yeah, you are obviously much closed to ground zero.

have you decided on your trip? Is it to a resort area?

[JeeberD]

We've switched to Barbados instead. I'm not sure what her source was, but she said she heard that the kids in NY who are sick had been in Cancun, and that's where we were going to be flying in to. I would much rather be safe than sorry, though I'm still not 100% worry free considering we're going to be on airplanes with recycled air with people who have been god knows where for a total of 14 hours...

[JediKooter]

I think that (1) the media knows that fear = ratings, and (2) because this virus is new and unknown, there is a chance that it could really take off due to a lack of natural immunity to it.

I'm definitely agreeing on number 1. However, since I have now tuned out the news about this, is the media at the very least trying to explain number 2 or are they still calling it a pandemic and just relaying how many new cases have been reported?

[flere-imsaho]

It doesn't qualify as a pandemic yet. Anyone who's saying that doesn't know what they're talking about.

[Passacaglia]

I'm not sure I can find the link anymore, but I read yesterday that Chicago Public Schools instituted a "no handshakes" rule.

[Passacaglia]

My bad, looks like it was just one school in Chicago:

Chicago Public Radio Blog » Handshakes Banned on Swine Flu Fear | News and Notes from WBEZ (http://apps.wbez.org/blog/?p=3130)

[DanGarion]

OMG I just coughed!!!!!


Do I have Swine Flu?

[Dr. Sak]

OMG I just coughed!!!!!


Do I have Swine Flu?

No...that chicken you ate last night just became loose in your throat.

[DanGarion]

No...that chicken you ate last night just became loose in your throat.

OH NO I HAVE BIRD FLU!

[JediKooter]

Should have ate the fish...

[lordscarlet]

OH NO I HAVE BIRD FLU!

Sorry guys, but I chuckled. :)

[DanGarion]

Sorry guys, but I chuckled. :)
No reason to be sorry. We are all (mostly) friends here even if we want to flog each other at times. :)

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

http://velofille.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/27k39.jpg

[ColtCrazy]

Well, there's been one case found in Northern Indiana. This prompted our school district, in Southern Indiana, to issue a memo to have us remind our students about proper hygiene, etc (which is fine). Then, an Indiana Health official then came out to talk about safety measures, including not shaking hands.

There's been even talk that some districts may close if they get as many as one case.


Is this media driven? I think so.

[path12]

That picture is 80,000 kinds of awesome.

[terpkristin]

Back to seriousness, while I think the media is blowing things out of proportion, I found a link to this free online book on Boing Boing:
Microbial Threats to Health: The Threat of Pandemic Influenza (http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=11371) (Microbial Threats to Health: The Threat of Pandemic Influenza), written in 2005 and published by the National Academies Press. Actually, if you sign up (free) you can download the PDF.

/tk

[Desnudo]

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit taking pig flu vacine.

[Mac Howard]

Two people die in California. Schwarzenegger declares a state of emergency. Tests now show neither died from swine flu.

Many more people died from the SARS vaccine than from SARS.

Says it all really :rolleyes:

The media seem determined to prove Nietzsche right when he declared democracy would become mediocracy. Perhaps they think he meant "rule by the media" when, of course, he meant "rule by the mediocre". Thinking about that - perhaps there's no difference.

[Lathum]

Two people die in California. Schwarzenegger declares a state of emergency. Tests now show neither died from swine flu.
.

heh.

I was just talking to Saldana today saying I wonder what happens when someone in the US dies.

[Cringer]

I didn't cancel practice for one of my youth soccer teams today, I had to make sure that I passed along my Swine Flu to as many as possible. I shook hands with two people this evening as well, and I made sure to cough into my hand first. :devil:

Saw on the news how 'they' (whoever they are) are asking for stimulus money for pandemic vaccines and crap like that. That is really starting to go overboard.

[DanGarion]

Two people die in California. Schwarzenegger declares a state of emergency. Tests now show neither died from swine flu.


WTF, how stupid are these people?

PEOPLE ARE DYING HERE IT MUST BE PIGS FLEW!

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I blame the police.

Damn that Gordon Sumner.

[ace1914]

Hmm. Playing devil's advocate, isn't this is a great way to justify completely closing the border, right?

[lordscarlet]

No reason to be sorry. We are all (mostly) friends here even if we want to flog each other at times. :)

No, no. I was sorry for laughing at such a bad joke. I'm a sucker for them. :)

[DanGarion]

Hmm. Playing devil's advocate, isn't this is a great way to justify completely closing the border, right?

Definitely!

[Big Fo]

Hmm. Playing devil's advocate, isn't this is a great way to justify completely closing the border, right?

If this lasts for awhile it could affect Mexico's chances of landing the 2022 World Cup which will be voted on soon. So the US could get tighter border controls and the WC out of this.

[Passacaglia]

Egypt orders slaughter of all pigs over swine flu (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090429/ap_on_he_me/ml_egypt_swine_flu)


Egypt orders slaughter of all pigs over swine flu

By MAAMOUN YOUSSEF, Associated Press Writer – 2 hrs 13 mins ago
CAIRO – Egypt began slaughtering the roughly 300,000 pigs in the country Wednesday as a precautionary measure against the spread of swine flu even though no cases have been reported here yet, the Health Ministry said.
The move immediately provoked resistance from pig farmers. At one large pig farming center just north of Cairo, farmers refused to cooperate with Health Ministry workers who came to slaughter the animals and the workers left without carrying out the government order.
"It has been decided to immediately start slaughtering all the pigs in Egypt using the full capacity of the country's slaughterhouses," Health Minister Hatem el-Gabaly told reporters after a Cabinet meeting with President Hosni Mubarak.
Egypt's overwhelmingly Muslim population does not eat pork due to religious restrictions. But the animals are raised and consumed by the Christian minority, which some estimates put at 10 percent of the population.
Health Ministry spokesman Abdel Rahman estimated there were between 300,000-350,000 pigs in Egypt.
Agriculture Minister Amin Abaza told reporters that farmers would be allowed to sell the pork meat so there would be no need for compensation.
In 2008, following fears over diseases spread by animals, Mubarak ordered all pig and chicken farms moved out of population areas. But the order was never implemented.
Pigs can be found in many places around Muslim world, often raised by religious minorities who can eat pork. But they are banned entirely in some Muslim countries including Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Kuwait, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates and Libya.
In Jordan, the government decided Wednesday to shut down the country's five pig farms, involving 800 animals, for violating public health safety regulations.

[JAG]

Someone at my wife's job talked about not eating bacon as a result of this. Today she's home sick with flu-like symptoms.

[DanGarion]

Someone at my wife's job talked about not eating bacon as a result of this. Today she's home sick with flu-like symptoms.

Yet eating prok has nothing to do with swine flu... People are idiots.

[Logan]

Not eating bacon kills!

cartman is gonna live to be 120.

[DaddyTorgo]

i for one welcome our new zombie-pig overlords!

[DaddyTorgo]

Two people die in California. Schwarzenegger declares a state of emergency. Tests now show neither died from swine flu.

Many more people died from the SARS vaccine than from SARS.

Says it all really :rolleyes:

The media seem determined to prove Nietzsche right when he declared democracy would become mediocracy. Perhaps they think he meant "rule by the media" when, of course, he meant "rule by the mediocre". Thinking about that - perhaps there's no difference.

oooh...fun fun!! are you one of those anti-vaccination people?? :confused:

if so - please stay away. we should make a seperate country for you all so you don't infect us with things we've been vaccinated against

[Ksyrup]

I'm home sick today. Getting the swine flu jokes from people at work. What are the chances?

[Lathum]

Egypt orders slaughter of all pigs over swine flu (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090429/ap_on_he_me/ml_egypt_swine_flu)

I'm amazed people in power can be this ignorant in 2009

[path12]

Hmm. Playing devil's advocate, isn't this is a great way to justify completely closing the border, right?

Except for those goddamn airplanes, sure.

[JediKooter]

I'm amazed people in power can be this ignorant in 2009

Oh, I'm sure we could come up with a nice long list of people. :)

[Ksyrup]

http://velofille.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/27k39.jpg



IT'S THE APORKALYPSE!

[Autumn]

oooh...fun fun!! are you one of those anti-vaccination people?? :confused:

if so - please stay away. we should make a seperate country for you all so you don't infect us with things we've been vaccinated against

There are times to be wary of vaccines. Such as when they were just made yesterday for a disease we don't understand yet. Chances are they will at that point be more dangerous than helpful for most people. Vaccines take a long time to get right.

[Karlifornia]

This whole thing is becoming quite hilarious.

[Passacaglia]

oooh...fun fun!! are you one of those anti-vaccination people?? :confused:

if so - please stay away. we should make a seperate country for you all so you don't infect us with things we've been vaccinated against

Lessons From 1976 Flu Vaccinations : NPR (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=103582555)


Lessons From 1976 Flu Vaccinations

by Scott Horsley

Listen Now [3 min 47 sec] add to playlist
All Things Considered, April 28, 2009 · Thirty-three years ago, the U.S. launched an unprecedented effort to fend off a swine flu epidemic by vaccinating every person. The program was eventually halted when the flu failed to materialize and the vaccine itself was linked to harmful side-effects.


The 'listen now' link contains audio of the longer story.

[Dr. Sak]

Pass you read my mind.

[Cringer]

Hmm. Playing devil's advocate, isn't this is a great way to justify completely closing the border, right?

Ha! Not a chance bud. There was a story on this in the local media yesterday (I live on the Texas border, about 60 miles from the first "U.S. death" of the Swine Flu). On the Mexican side of the border they are stopping every car going over there and asking them if they had had symptoms, etc. Ont he U.S. side our border patrol is not doing anything, if they "look sick" then they will investigate further. Yes, our border procedures will protect us from everything, I am sure of it.

I'm home sick today. Getting the swine flu jokes from people at work. What are the chances?

I am on day three of being sick, and I wouldn't be surprised if I have it. If I die though I will let everyone know.

[A-Husker-4-Life]

Is this really "Porky's Revenge" ...

[Samdari]

Many more people died from the SARS vaccine than from SARS.

You are quoting this as fact?

Can you provide a source for this information?

From what I can tell the SARS scare died out before development on a vaccine was completed, and nowhere near the 774 people who died from SARS were ever given an experimental vaccine.

[finketr]

my employer has suspended all travel to and from Mexico unless approved at vice presidential level...

also, my wife is sick with the flu but she's recovering now.

[Huckleberry]

oooh...fun fun!! are you one of those anti-vaccination people?? :confused:

if so - please stay away. we should make a seperate country for you all so you don't infect us with things we've been vaccinated against

Um, what was the point of being vaccinated if you can't be around people that weren't vaccinated?

[RainMaker]

Need someone with knowledge of this to help me out.

From what I've gathered, you get sick from this but ultimately recover even without medical attention. It sort of sounds like the regular flu, but a little worse. Am I wrong here? I mean if this was ebola and our skins were melting it's one thing, but I think I can deal with having the flu for a few days.

[DanGarion]

Need someone with knowledge of this to help me out.

From what I've gathered, you get sick from this but ultimately recover even without medical attention. It sort of sounds like the regular flu, but a little worse. Am I wrong here? I mean if this was ebola and our skins were melting it's one thing, but I think I can deal with having the flu for a few days.
No you pretty much have it right. It's the sensationalistic media feamongering the herd. Nothing new here.

[lordscarlet]

Two people die in California. Schwarzenegger declares a state of emergency. Tests now show neither died from swine flu.



Citation? (so that I can use it as ammo)

[JonInMiddleGA]

No you pretty much have it right. It's the sensationalistic media feamongering the herd. Nothing new here.

Except when it runs into pneumonia. Or when it leads to respiratory failure.
Both of which can occur with the more common cases of the flu, except that with an unfamiliar strain such as this one the likelihood of either of those happening is uncertain.

And then there's the "cytokine storm" effect which could actually make any unfamiliar virus more dangerous to healthy people not likely to suffer severe complications from typical flu bugs. Basically your immune system works against you until it kills you, which is now suspected to be a leading cause of
death during the avian flu outbreak in Asia.

Fighting Deadly Flu, Mexico Shuts Schools - NYTimes.com (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/25/world/americas/25mexico.html?_r=1)
When a new virus emerges, it can sweep through the population, said Dr. Anne Moscona, a flu specialist at Cornell University’s medical school. The Spanish flu is believed to have infected at least 25 percent of the United States population, but killed less than 3 percent of those infected.

The leading theory on why so many young, healthy people die in pandemics is the “cytokine storm,” in which vigorous immune systems pour out antibodies to attack the new virus. That can inflame lung cells until they leak fluid, which can overwhelm the lungs, Dr. Moscona said.

The danger here isn't strictly from "the flu", it's enhanced because it's a previously unknown strain of flu.

Meanwhile, I'm finding it increasingly rich that the highly trained medical staff of FOFC is quick to dismiss the threat while health officials public & private worldwide are quite concerned.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Citation? (so that I can use it as ammo)

You won't need one because it's a red herring. The state of emergency wasn't due to the deaths (which one was definitely not swine flu, the other was still being tested as of last night) it was a procedural matter that would allow various state agencies to work together more easily.

That's not really uncommon occurrence, the same sort of "state of emergency" gets declared in states in cases like tornadoes, floods, etc. in order to facilitate faster/smoother/better interagency cooperation outside of some of the usual bureaucratic red tape. If I had a dollar for every "state of emergency" declared by every Georgia governor in my lifetime I'd have several hundred dollars.

[DanGarion]

Citation? (so that I can use it as ammo)
Just checking on Google News, the only US Death that has been reported is the Mexican kid who was brought to the US because we have such a better medical system here that our tax dollars should be used to cure anyone.

[DanGarion]

Just like the WHO says that there have only been 7 confirmed deaths worldwide not the reported 150+.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Just checking on Google News, the only US Death that has been reported is the Mexican kid who was brought to the US because we have such a better medical system here that our tax dollars should be used to cure anyone.

Alas, much as I'd like to have that arrow in my anti-immigration quiver, it may not be applicable here.

The kid had pre-existing "underlying health problems" but didn't develop flu symptoms until several days after arrival & came ostensibly to visit relatives in Brownsville. Got sick & was then taken to Houston for treatment.
My Way News - Mexican boy visiting Texas 1st US swine flu death (http://apnews.myway.com//article/20090429/D97S9CSO0.html)

[DanGarion]

Alas, much as I'd like to have that arrow in my anti-immigration quiver, it may not be applicable here.

The kid had pre-existing "underlying health problems" but didn't develop flu symptoms until several days after arrival & came ostensibly to visit relatives in Brownsville. Got sick & was then taken to Houston for treatment.
My Way News - Mexican boy visiting Texas 1st US swine flu death (http://apnews.myway.com//article/20090429/D97S9CSO0.html)

I hadn't read the whole story since this morning, but on the news this morning they sounded like he came to the US because of it.

[Masked]

Need someone with knowledge of this to help me out.

From what I've gathered, you get sick from this but ultimately recover even without medical attention. It sort of sounds like the regular flu, but a little worse. Am I wrong here? I mean if this was ebola and our skins were melting it's one thing, but I think I can deal with having the flu for a few days.

For most people that is correct - it's going to be very similar to the regular flu. The danger is it's going to have a much higher mortality rate than the regular flu (which is something much lower than 1%). The mortality rate during the 1918-1919 flu epidemic was less than 5% in the United States.

Ebola which is much more deadly doesn't have the pandemic potential of the something like the flu. Ebola kills people before it can spread, the flu does not. 100% mortality multiplied by 200 cases is much better than 1% mortality multiplied by 100,000,000 million cases.

[JonInMiddleGA]

From what Masked pointed out, let's do a little math.

Let's say the mortality rate is 1/10th of that of the Spanish Flu outbreak, the figure I've usually seen is around 3%.

With a U.S. population of 306 million, you're talking about 918,000 deaths in the U.S. with a mortality rate of 0.3%. If it turns out to be even half of the Spanish Flu mortality rate, you're looking at 4.59 million deaths in the U.S. At 1/10 of the Spanish Flu outbreak, just 0.3%, the number gets to around 20 million worldwide (assuming equal distribution).

[lordscarlet]

Just checking on Google News, the only US Death that has been reported is the Mexican kid who was brought to the US because we have such a better medical system here that our tax dollars should be used to cure anyone.

Right, but that does not link the two, as JIMGA has said you can't. I don't want to make claims that are not factual.

From what Masked pointed out, let's do a little math.

Let's say the mortality rate is 1/10th of that of the Spanish Flu outbreak, the figure I've usually seen is around 3%.

With a U.S. population of 306 million, you're talking about 918,000 deaths in the U.S. with a mortality rate of 0.3%. If it turns out to be even half of the Spanish Flu mortality rate, you're looking at 4.59 million deaths in the U.S. At 1/10 of the Spanish Flu outbreak, just 0.3%, the number gets to around 20 million worldwide (assuming equal distribution).

Except that the 3% mortality rate is of those infected. So, the math is poor. it's .3% of the number of cases, which, currently is a confirmed 91 cases (CDC - Influenza (Flu) | Swine Influenza (Flu) (http://www.cdc.gov/swineflu/)). With the .3%, you would expect no more than 1 (which, so far, is what the number is at). for 3% it would be around 3 people.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Right, but that does not link the two, as JIMGA has said you can't. I don't want to make claims that are not factual.



[quote]Except that the 3% mortality rate is of those infected.

Ack, my bad, very much so in fact. Teach me to post while having a calculator open for something else I was doing. Mea culpa.

Quartering those numbers for the U.S. would be more apt (25% infection seems to be the number associated with the Spanish Flu outbreak).

[lordscarlet]

Based on the Spanish Flu wiki entry:

the infection rate was "up to 50%". It also says that the "usual flu epidemic" mortality rate is .1%. So if the numbers above are correct, the swine flu mortality rate is 3x the typical flue, but 1/10 the Spanish Flu.

India did see an actualy mortality rate of 5% (of the whole population).

Looks like a 28% infection rate in the US. I assume it's way to early to know the infection rate of the swine flu.

[JediKooter]

Wife is sick. She went to the doctor and they made her wear a mask when she left. Won't know if she has been swined or not until the test results come back in a couple of days.

[Masked]

As pointed out above, you have to consider infection rate. For normal seasonal flu, it's probably around 10% if the population (0.1% mortality rate * US Population * 10% infection rate = 30,000 deaths in a year). A novel virus that otherwise has the same infectious potential as the normal seasonal flu would be expected to have a higher infection rate because no one has been vaccinated and no one has natural immunities from prior exposure. From the medical science perspective, higher infection rates and higher mortality is a potentially bad combination - that is why public health agencies are rightfully concerned. It's much easier to stop a pandemic before it spreads than after; therefore, these agencies are forced to take actions based on spotty and preliminary data (we don't know the total number of cases, we don't know the mortality rate, etc.).

That said, the media coverage is, as expected, ridiculous.

[lordscarlet]

I'm coming around on this, btw. Not necessarily to the way the media has freaked out, but...

[Lathum]

Meanwhile, I'm finding it increasingly rich that the highly trained medical staff of FOFC is quick to dismiss the threat while health officials public & private worldwide are quite concerned.

guy has a point.

[DanGarion]

It's funny that people actually think the masks really do anything. They dont' protect you from small particles such as viri all they do is block large particles.

The only real benefit I see with a mask is that it could prevent you from touching your mouth with an hand that has come in contact with the virus.

[DanGarion]

Meanwhile, I'm finding it increasingly rich that the highly trained medical staff of FOFC is quick to dismiss the threat while health officials public & private worldwide are quite concerned.

These are the same types of highly trained people and media that thinks we are the cause of global warming and cooling that has been going on for billions of years.

[RainMaker]

It's funny that people actually think the masks really do anything. They dont' protect you from small particles such as viri all they do is block large particles.

The only real benefit I see with a mask is that it could prevent you from touching your mouth with an hand that has come in contact with the virus.

This is not from me but from my brother who works in the biotech field. The mask is basically worthless if you are healthy. It is really only beneficial if you are sick so that your saliva and stuff isn't sprayed everywhere when talking and coughing.

[stevew]

I'm not sure if I want to live in the 12 Monkeys future. Or that of the Stand

[sterlingice]

I'm not sure if I want to live in the 12 Monkeys future. Or that of the Stand

I figured out long ago that I'm decidedly not post-apocalyptic stock.

SI

[Easy Mac]

They closed a school about 5 miles from me. 20 band geeks came back from a trip to FLA and said they had flu like symptoms. I think they just wanted a day off school.

[JPhillips]

Just checking on Google News, the only US Death that has been reported is the Mexican kid who was brought to the US because we have such a better medical system here that our tax dollars should be used to cure anyone.

Hard to understand this degree of callousness. You'd really rather let a young child die than let him be treated in the U.S.?

[Groundhog]

Hard to understand this degree of callousness. You'd really rather let a young child die than let him be treated in the U.S.?

Hmmmm. I didn't get that at all from his post.

[DanGarion]

Hard to understand this degree of callousness. You'd really rather let a young child die than let him be treated in the U.S.?
I never said anything about it being a child. In fact I don't see why there would be any more benefit from it being a child compared to an adult. I have a problem with people that come here to the US with problems that they expect us to treat on our dime regardless as to if they are children, adults, men, women, Irish, Iraqi, Mexican, or Chinese.

I'd much rather see his country man up and take some responsibility for their people and solve their problems, instead of us having to do it for them.

[thealmighty]

Ft. Worth ISD has shut down for two weeks. 80k students being asked to stay in their homes...and away from Chucky Cheese.

[Groundhog]

I'd much rather see his country man up and take some responsibility for their people and solve their problems, instead of us having to do it for them.

Well, I'm sure they would if the could. But they can't. It's not quite that simple unfortunately.

[RainMaker]

I never said anything about it being a child. In fact I don't see why there would be any more benefit from it being a child compared to an adult. I have a problem with people that come here to the US with problems that they expect us to treat on our dime regardless as to if they are children, adults, men, women, Irish, Iraqi, Mexican, or Chinese.

I'd much rather see his country man up and take some responsibility for their people and solve their problems, instead of us having to do it for them.

We should also let the 40% of our country who doesn't pay income tax die without health care too. Right? I mean why should we foot the bill for them too.

[BishopMVP]

We should also let the 40% of our country who doesn't pay income tax die without health care too. Right? I mean why should we foot the bill for them too.Or the counterfactual - why don't we foot the bill for sick people across the world? By any rational economic measures, $1 of additional health care spending goes much further in non-OECD countries, but yet we continue to selfishly spend billions on Medicare/Medicaid for a couple million elderly patients when that money could be used to build clinics across the developing world. Or why do we continue to pave roads with potholes here instead of paving dirt roads in other countries?

For the amount (~$150) I am forced to spend each month on health insurance I don't use that subsidizes poor people in my state it could save dozens of kids in a country like India from malnutrition, or provide clean water to a village, or mosquito netting to prevent malaria.

It's all a question of where you draw the line, and clearly on a macro level you're just as much an asshole for not wanting to pay the money to save every other sick kid as DanGarion is for not wanting to pay the money to save this one particular one who gets attention merely because of a unique maelstrom of media attention while millions die from common causes.

[RainMaker]

Or the counterfactual - why don't we foot the bill for sick people across the world? By any rational economic measures, $1 of additional health care spending goes much further in non-OECD countries, but yet we continue to selfishly spend billions on Medicare/Medicaid for a couple million elderly patients when that money could be used to build clinics across the developing world. Or why do we continue to pave roads with potholes here instead of paving dirt roads in other countries?

For the amount (~$150) I am forced to spend each month on health insurance I don't use that subsidizes poor people in my state it could save dozens of kids in a country like India from malnutrition, or provide clean water to a village, or mosquito netting to prevent malaria.

It's all a question of where you draw the line, and clearly on a macro level you're just as much an asshole for not wanting to pay the money to save every other sick kid as DanGarion is for not wanting to pay the money to save this one particular one who gets attention merely because of a unique maelstrom of media attention while millions die from common causes.

I'm not arguing whether he is right or wrong. DanGarion's statement implied that we shouldn't treat people who aren't paying for it. I'm just making sure that this includes everyone who doesn't pay in to fund our medical system.

I know we are a little unique as we are essentially the only advanced country not to have a national health care system.

[Cringer]

I get the feeling the big problem is the kid is from Mexico. If he were visiting family in the U.S. and were from Canada or Spain or somewhere else it probably wouldn't have blossomed into a large discussion. It can be denied easily I guess, but lets face it people will choose to quickly overlook the "visiting family" part and focus on "from Mexico, went to a hospital in a border town" and they turn it into part of their anti-Mexican/immigration views. If it were an Irish lad I am guessing people would be much quicker to believe he were visiting family.

[Mac Howard]

You are quoting this as fact?

Can you provide a source for this information?

From what I can tell the SARS scare died out before development on a vaccine was completed, and nowhere near the 774 people who died from SARS were ever given an experimental vaccine.

Citation? (so that I can use it as ammo)

Sorry for the delay in replaying, guys, I'm in Western Australia and roughly 12 hours out of phase with you.

Both pieces of information came from a story run on CNN a couple of days ago. I think it was the "Situation Room" with Wolfe Blitzer. The comment about SARS came from a "medical expert" whom I have no reason to disbelieve as he certainly didn't seem to be pursuing an anti-vaccine agenda but warning that vaccines can have problem of their own when applied en masse. According to google there was a SARS vaccine developed but not in time for the primary SARS outbreak but has been used since (google gives 237,000 responses to SARS vaccine so I assume there is some validity to its suggested existence). Presumably the expert was referring to subsequent deaths.

CNN ran a video clip of Schwarzenegger announcing the state of emergency. By the time the story was run both deaths had been found not to be a result of swine flu, lordscarlet.

I understand there are approximately 100 deaths every day from seasonal flu in the US alone which would seem to me to need some attention :)
.

[lordscarlet]

I never said anything about it being a child. In fact I don't see why there would be any more benefit from it being a child compared to an adult. I have a problem with people that come here to the US with problems that they expect us to treat on our dime regardless as to if they are children, adults, men, women, Irish, Iraqi, Mexican, or Chinese.

I'd much rather see his country man up and take some responsibility for their people and solve their problems, instead of us having to do it for them.

What about the people from the US that go to Canada and Europe because the procedures are free there?

[panerd]

Sorry for the delay in replaying, guys, I'm in Western Australia and roughly 12 hours out of phase with you.

Both pieces of information came from a story run on CNN a couple of days ago. I think it was the "Situation Room" with Wolfe Blitzer. The comment about SARS came from a "medical expert" whom I have no reason to disbelieve as he certainly didn't seem to be pursuing an anti-vaccine agenda but warning that vaccines can have problem of their own when applied en masse. According to google there was a SARS vaccine developed but not in time for the primary SARS outbreak but has been used since (google gives 237,000 responses to SARS vaccine so I assume there is some validity to its suggested existence). Presumably the expert was referring to subsequent deaths.

CNN ran a video clip of Schwarzenegger announcing the state of emergency. By the time the story was run both deaths had been found not to be a result of swine flu, lordscarlet.

I understand there are approximately 100 deaths every day from seasonal flu in the US alone which would seem to me to need some attention :)
.

You initial point is valid in that we will spend an outragous amount of money to supposedly save lives while lowering the speed limit or outlawing tobacco would save many times that. My guess though with the SARS vaccine quote is he was probably talking about Americans and I am guessing there were some fatalities from both the virus and the vaccine but I doubt 700+ people died from the vaccine.

[albionmoonlight]

Just checking on Google News, the only US Death that has been reported is the Mexican kid who was brought to the US because we have such a better medical system here that our tax dollars should be used to cure anyone.

IMHO, there are some very compelling arguments for conservative economic policies as opposed to liberal economic policies. Indeed, I, personally, tend to lean in that direction. And I think that a lot of people share that assessment.

So, why do only 1 in 5 Americans dare to call themselves Republican now? To me, it has to do with tone. There is a way to talk about the economics of rationing limited health care resources that will resonate with people. But, at some point, the GOP messengers lost the abilty to talk that way. And, blaming the family of a dead child for doing what they could to try to cure him is NOT THE WAY TO DO THAT.

I have a child. I can put myself in the shoes of the parents who would do WHATEVER THE FUCK IT TOOK TO KEEP HIM ALIVE. And, at some point, the kernel of real honest to goodness sense buried in your post was overwhelmed by this need to MAKE SURE THAT I KNOW THAT BEING IN THE GOP MEANS THAT ONE HAS NO SYMPATHY FOR THAT DESIRE. When you are saying that anyone who believes that marginal tax rates are more important than keeping children alive should join your party . . . well, I guess that I am suprised that 1 in five people have the nerve to call themsevles Republican.

Now, rant over, I really do get your point. And there is a lot to be said for it. But you see how coming into a thread, not about politics but about swine flu, and jumping on the child victim and his family is a really poor rhetorical strategy? How do you ever expect to get back into the majority when you frame your arguments like that?

[DaddyTorgo]

the piggies are gonna getcha!

[Mac Howard]

My guess though with the SARS vaccine quote is he was probably talking about Americans and I am guessing there were some fatalities from both the virus and the vaccine but I doubt 700+ people died from the vaccine.

I seem to remember that he was responding to the idea that there could be a vaccine rushed out for the swine flu. He first said that there was no guarantee that such a vaccine could be developed quickly and second that the level of testing needed for a vaccine that would be used in great numbers would be far greater than could be achieved in time and that there would be a significant danger that such a vaccine could kill more than it saved if it were used before it had gone through that testing. There is always a significant number of people who have severe reactions to any vaccine, some fatal, it's important to have some understanding of that. It was at that point he mentioned the SARS vaccine and I guess he was referring to the total of deaths in the many years it has now been used.

But my main complaint is at the way the media have treated this. There is no doubt in my mind that they have created a degree of panic. I live on the edge of outback Australia - you couldn't get to a place less likely to see this outbreak - but the local press is reporting a run on masks and anti-viral products even here. The reporting in recent days has been little short of hysterical.

I think the media here are now responding to the criticism or maybe just realising that their reports are beginning to look ridiculous. 2/3 days ago the tv news was dominated by reports of "suspected" cases here in Australia - a bigger number every hour. But the "suspected" bit was being ignored. Tonight the report began in a much more sober manner with the news that the 100 or so "suspected" cases had all proved false and there are no confirmed cases at all here as yet.

So, the news for Australia at this point is "as yet there have been no confirmed cases of swine flu". Now, that may not sell many newspapers or have people glued to their tv sets, but that is the current condition here but you would never have guessed that listening to the news of the last few days :rolleyes:

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

LOL @ Joe Biden.

Man, what a caricature.

Biden slips a little on flu warning - 2008 Presidential Campaign Blog - Political Intelligence - Boston.com (http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2009/04/biden_slips_a_l.html)

[DanGarion]

Well, I'm sure they would if the could. But they can't. It's not quite that simple unfortunately.
We have enough of our own problems in our country to deal with other countries problems. Once we handle all of ours, then we can worry about the rest of the world.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

We have enough of our own problems in our country to deal with other countries problems. Once we handle all of ours, then we can worry about the rest of the world.

Agreed. We've got millions of uninsured Americans. That money is eartagged for them, not citizens of other countries. That's what foreign aid is for.

[DanGarion]

What about the people from the US that go to Canada and Europe because the procedures are free there?
They should be sent back to the States.

[DanGarion]

Now, rant over, I really do get your point. And there is a lot to be said for it. But you see how coming into a thread, not about politics but about swine flu, and jumping on the child victim and his family is a really poor rhetorical strategy? How do you ever expect to get back into the majority when you frame your arguments like that?
I'm not a republican.

[albionmoonlight]

I'm not a republican.

My bad.

And my bad for my entire post, really. Very dickish in tone on my part. I'm sorry about that.

[flere-imsaho]

Hmm. Playing devil's advocate, isn't this is a great way to justify completely closing the border, right?

The likely benefit is minimal, and not anywhere near enough to justify the economic damage it would case. In plain terms, closing the border would have a very small effect on the spread of the disease, and would cost the economy billions.

There are times to be wary of vaccines. Such as when they were just made yesterday for a disease we don't understand yet. Chances are they will at that point be more dangerous than helpful for most people. Vaccines take a long time to get right.

While that's true, it should be noted that a number of major phamaceuticals work on flu vaccines a lot and in these scenarios are typically provided with a "reference strain" of the new virus by the government (once the government can isolate it) from which to modify their existing vaccines, which can then be distributed.

So basically on flu they don't start from scratch. As opposed to SARS, for instance.

"More dangerous than helpful"? The adverse reactions from flu vaccines are well known in the medical community and practitioners working with at-risk populations (children, elderly) know how to counteract these ARs should they present themselves. Any widespread vaccination program would, these days, also take into account certain populations who would have trouble handling the vaccine, but these populations typically represent only a small minority of the overall population.


From what I've gathered, you get sick from this but ultimately recover even without medical attention. It sort of sounds like the regular flu, but a little worse. Am I wrong here?

Yes, basically. You can still die if you have complicating circumstances (i.e. other respiratory or immune problems) or if your immune system isn't up to handling the disease (children, elderly). Then there are the special cases JiMGA has referenced.

The key thing, as others have noted, is that the virus has a long linger time and is relatively easily spread, so it's possible to infect a lot of people. Then it all becomes a matter of statistics.

There's also the issue of adequacy of response. A lot of infants who contract this will need an ER visit, for instance, to at the very least get re-hydrated. Well, if an entire daycare comes down with it, they may overload the nearest hospital's ability to care for all the infants, and some may expire before they can be transferred to another hospital or be treated at the first hospital.

[DanGarion]

My bad.

And my bad for my entire post, really. Very dickish in tone on my part. I'm sorry about that.

No worries, I take most the things said on here lightly. I just think we as American's should work on our own problems instead of the rest of the worlds. I'm all about foreign aid, once our people are cared for. And honestly I'm all about helping a foreigner in the hospital if there is an emergency but I don't appreciate anyone that goes here expecting us to treat them. It's unfortunate that a child died, but his life is no more important then all the other people that die every day. Let's see what else. And where the person comes from in the story has no bearing on me, the media choose to specifically mention the child was Mexican, and I bet it was because they wanted to rile the anti illegal immigrant people up.

[Arles]

One school shut down today in Arizona and I've had two people who work for me call in and ask if it's OK that they come in as their wife has the flu. There's a lot of worry in Arizona, but nothing really to show from an outcome yet (just uncertainty).

The one positive about Arizona is that in a week or two, it will be 103-105 and that be warm enough to kill about any flu virus floating around ;)

[JPhillips]

No worries, I take most the things said on here lightly. I just think we as American's should work on our own problems instead of the rest of the worlds. I'm all about foreign aid, once our people are cared for. And honestly I'm all about helping a foreigner in the hospital if there is an emergency but I don't appreciate anyone that goes here expecting us to treat them. It's unfortunate that a child died, but his life is no more important then all the other people that die every day. Let's see what else. And where the person comes from in the story has no bearing on me, the media choose to specifically mention the child was Mexican, and I bet it was because they wanted to rile the anti illegal immigrant people up.

Or perhaps it's pertinent information given the epicenter of the flu is Mexico.

[DanGarion]

Or perhaps it's pertinent information given the epicenter of the flu is Mexico.

I'd like to the think the media is more interested in viewers then the safety of the public. For the most part they do what they can to bring in viewers. But yes the epicenter does appear to be Mexico. Maybe it was a Pig Show (instead of the typical Donkey Show).

[Samdari]

According to google there was a SARS vaccine developed but not in time for the primary SARS outbreak but has been used since (google gives 237,000 responses to SARS vaccine so I assume there is some validity to its suggested existence). Presumably the expert was referring to subsequent deaths.

If you click on the links, you won't find any of them referring to a SARS vaccine that went into production (at least I did not). The furthest any seem to have gone is human trials (where participants number in the dozens), then the fervent panic went away, and with it the money for research.

I see nothing to indicate to me that more than 774 people (the number commonly quoted as having died from SARS) were ever given any form of SARS vaccine, thus making it impossible to have more people die from it than SARS.

It seems that 'fact' is likely a anti-vaccine hyberbole.

I don't want to get into a debate on whether or not vaccines are useful, just seemed that fact was extremely unlikely. I have seen nothing to dissuade me from that view.

[JeeberD]

Ft. Worth ISD has shut down for two weeks. 80k students being asked to stay in their homes...and away from Chucky Cheese.

I'm surprised there hasn't been any response here to this. It's freaking huge. And they're telling all the parents to keep the kids at home and not to let them hang out with each other or go to daycare. Yeah, like that's going to happen...

An elementary school in Lewisville also shut down due to 1 confirmed case and three probable cases. There's 1 probably case in Denton county so far...I wonder if UNT and TWU would shut down with finals coming up next week?

[DanGarion]

I'm surprised there hasn't been any response here to this. It's freaking huge. And they're telling all the parents to keep the kids at home and not to let them hang out with each other or go to daycare. Yeah, like that's going to happen...

An elementary school in Lewisville also shut down due to 1 confirmed case and three probable cases. There's 1 probably case in Denton county so far...I wonder if UNT and TWU would shut down with finals coming up next week?
So is the whole city shutting down then? Only those of us without children will be able to work.

[flere-imsaho]

I did some research and it appears that there is no marketed SARS vaccine, though there are several (using different methods of action) in development, including some that have finished initial trials (including trials in China, where the government has supported trials with relatively large populations for initial trials).

[DaddyTorgo]

I did some research and it appears that there is no marketed SARS vaccine, though there are several (using different methods of action) in development, including some that have finished initial trials (including trials in China, where the government has supported trials with relatively large populations for initial trials).

YOU WILL TAKE THIS TRAIL VACCINE OR YOU WON'T EAT MR. COMMUNIST FARMER-MAN! :devil:

[DaddyTorgo]

couldn't we just do the same thing with North Korea & Cuba?

Some big drug company pays them billions of dollars to test new drugs on their population cheaply. Cheaper than the testing process over here, and then you should conceivably coast through trials over here.

*tongue in cheek*

[JeeberD]

So is the whole city shutting down then? Only those of us without children will be able to work.

No doubt. Last night my wife was grumbling about how many of her employees were going to be calling in despite the fact she probably doesn't employ anyone who lives in Fort Worth...

[flere-imsaho]

Some big drug company pays them billions of dollars to test new drugs on their population cheaply. Cheaper than the testing process over here, and then you should conceivably coast through trials over here.

I know you're joking, but the weakness of doing it this way is that regulatory agencies in the major regions (US, EU, for instance) would be more likely to look at the data collected askance, especially if good trial design and/or data collection was potentially compromised in any way.

If you want to sell something globally, you still pretty much need to get either the FDA or EMEA to approve it.

[spleen1015]

They said that a black man would become president when pigs fly.

Dude has been president for 100 days and BAM!!!!!!!!!

SWINE FLU!!!!

[Cringer]

I have been joking about it on here but if this is what I have I would say it's nothing to brush off. This thing is kicking my ass. Death's door? Nope, but it's the flu and it sucks more then any flu I have had in a long time and I don't need to be tested to tell me that much. I have so much crap coming out of my lungs I need to find a use for it.

[flere-imsaho]

QUICK!!! VACCINATE THE THREAD!!!

[Sun Tzu]

Maybe you should try some tussin :)

Get well Cringer.

[DanGarion]

Shit now we need to sanitize the whole board... and the servers, and the internet!

BOARD'S CLOSED EVERYBODY!

[BishopMVP]

I'm not arguing whether he is right or wrong. DanGarion's statement implied that we shouldn't treat people who aren't paying for it. I'm just making sure that this includes everyone who doesn't pay in to fund our medical system.Sitting 2000+ miles away, it seems like the difference between Brownsville and Ciudad Juarez is a rather arbitrary one. Yet people (hyprocritically/ironically enough, generally the same ones who decry patriotism in a military context) are prepared to spend money on people they've never met in Brownsville, yet not give a dollar to someone they've never met 10 miles farther south.

Personally, I find it funny that people seem to have a need to latch onto something like proximity or nationality when really, in my opinion, one person I haven't met is just as worthy of being helped as another. Maybe I fall too far into albion's cold, heartless, rational economic talk, but I don't feel any emotional connection to 99.9% of Americans and the marginal rate of return on the money is so much greater in other places.


In other news, missing Better Off Ted (and part of Chuck last week for the Craigslist killer) was bad enough. If one second of Lost had been pre-empted for this hysteria (or whatever else Obama decided to talk about this week) there would have been problems.

[Butter]

I cross-posted that pic of the kid licking the pig's nose to another board.

Do you think they have a chance of getting infected.

I'll hang up to listen to your response, kthx.

[Bad-example]

I have been joking about it on here but if this is what I have I would say it's nothing to brush off. This thing is kicking my ass. Death's door? Nope, but it's the flu and it sucks more then any flu I have had in a long time and I don't need to be tested to tell me that much. I have so much crap coming out of my lungs I need to find a use for it.

Ugh. Hope you feel better soon. I had a rough time when I was sick at super bowl time and again a few weeks later. Never coughed up so much lung butter in my life. Lots of fluids, two hot showers a day, plus something to stop the post-nasal drip were the things that helped me the most.

[Cringer]

Sitting 2000+ miles away, it seems like the difference between Brownsville and Ciudad Juarez is a rather arbitrary one. Yet people (hyprocritically/ironically enough, generally the same ones who decry patriotism in a military context) are prepared to spend money on people they've never met in Brownsville, yet not give a dollar to someone they've never met 10 miles farther south.

Yes and no. Tons of family connections going back and forth along the border. People from both sides travel back and forth across the bridges every day for work (even whiteys from up north). Going to Monterrey, Mexico is just as much of an option for a weekend trip as going to San Antonio, maybe more for many because of family. Still, it is pretty clear that the river divides two pretty different places.

[Cringer]

Sorry to infect you all, but I need to do my part to support the media in this thing. :devil:

[Sun Tzu]

My mother in-laws friend just got back from Mexico, and was sick as a dog when she got back. She went to Kaiser and had to be quarantined for 48 hours, and then was only released if she agreed not to leave the confines of her house until Monday of next week. They are supposed to get her test results back today sometime.

crazy

[lordscarlet]

My mother in-laws friend just got back from Mexico, and was sick as a dog when she got back. She went to Kaiser and had to be quarantined for 48 hours, and then was only released if she agreed not to leave the confines of her house until Monday of next week. They are supposed to get her test results back today sometime.

crazy

I'd be more worried about the fact that she went to Kaiser. She would have been better off seeing a doctor in Mexico. ;)

[Glengoyne]

I don't have the slightest problem with what Biden said. Frankly I think it's silly to make it an issue. He's stating his opinion. Even the VP is entitled to his own opinion.

If I had a trip scheduled, I'd contemplate changing plans to avoid flying if possible. Two of my staff are flying to Arizona for a conference. I've discussed their individual comfort levels with both of them, and have offered up that we could cancel their flights in favor of renting a car and making the nine hour drive. I wouldn't consider that decision to be an over reaction.

I'm not one of the Doomsayers on this subject, but if someone decides that precaution is in order, there isn't anything wrong with that.

[path12]

I cross-posted that pic of the kid licking the pig's nose to another board.

Do you think they have a chance of getting infected.

I'll hang up to listen to your response, kthx.

I sent that picture to everyone I know, and I'm not the type to send internets stuff all willy-nilly. Hope nobody dies.

[path12]

lung butter.

Ew. That's gross even to me. Almost as bad as snot vampire.

Unless you mean Lung Butter of 69. He seems cool.

[JPhillips]

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/.a/6a00d83451c45669e201156f6bb02f970c-500wi

[Lathum]

lol

[PurdueBrad]

My son has a bunch of Winnie the Pooh stuff in his room and I've just pinned this up over his crib. See how long till the wife notices.

[sterlingice]

My son has a bunch of Winnie the Pooh stuff in his room and I've just pinned this up over his crib. See how long till the wife notices.

You are a sadistic, brilliant man. Just make sure to take it down before he can read ;)

SI

[whomario]

Don´t blame the Pigs ! (http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1894703,00.html?imw=Y) (time article)

Egypt just ordered all pigs in the country to be killed. Well, it´s mainly just a timely excuse for the muslim leaders to get rid of them for good.

[DaddyTorgo]

Do You Have Swine Flu? (http://doihaveswineflu.org/)

[CU Tiger]

I got a text earlier that says "People always said a black man would be President when pigs fly. Look here 100 days in office and BAM pig flu"

[Mac Howard]

It seems that 'fact' is likely a anti-vaccine hyberbole.

I don't want to get into a debate on whether or not vaccines are useful, just seemed that fact was extremely unlikely. I have seen nothing to dissuade me from that view.

Just quoting the man, samdari, and I don't assume that I have any competence to call his expertise into question, despite access to google. He clearly was not pursuing an anti-vaccine agenda as you suggest but trying to bring some reasonable perspective to CNN's somewhat overblown coverage by pointing out the danger in calls for an early vaccine. Did he exaggerate in order to make his point? Possibly but his point, it seems to me, is still valid - rushing out a vaccine in response to calls from a relatively unsophisticated media and public carries dangers of its own and should be resisted.

Personal point here - my mother had an awful reaction to an anti-flu vaccine in the late 1990s only part of which, ironically, was that she couldn't shake off flu-like symptoms for over six months causing me to investigate and learn that there was no shortage of such reactions and some fatal.

What is needed is a rational response coming out of medical expertise not the knee-jerk reaction demanded by media hype and public panic. Communities are closing down, international travel is coming to a halt and there is every danger that the recent modest indications that the world economic downturn is levelling off could disappear overnight for what might, in the end, prove to be another Y2K style panic. We need a rational, informed response to this situation not one driven by media hype.

[JeeberD]

One of my employees had to leave town three days ago because her dad had the flu and was in the hospital in Brownsville. I heard today that it was confirmed that he has the swine type. Now all the rest of the employees are demanding that she not work for at least a week once she gets back into town.

I came in to work around 2:30 today and a server who had worked in the morning apparently wasn't feeling well and had a slight fever. As soon as I got there another server asked if she could talk to me and told me about the sick server and told me that she was making everyone nervous, and how they were sanitizing everything that she touched. She was supposed to work the night shift, but I convinced her to go home, though she doesn't have insurance and doesn't want to go see a doctor unless she starts feeling even worse...

*sigh* It's starting to really hit home...

[Lathum]

It's probably going to get worse before it gets better

[Lathum]

dola- just saw 13 cases in Seattle and they have announced 5 schools closing.

[Cringer]

*sigh* It's starting to really hit home...

I understand that line. And I am not talking about myself, but I got to help deal with spreading the word that the soccer games were not canceled this weekend, and had to deal with the parents of one of my players who hadn't been showing up this week. They said they have been keeping their kids inside most of the week as much as possible. I didn't think they were the type to go overboard about this type of thing. I forgot to ask if they had kept them home from school too? An open soccer field is not any more risky then a closed up classroom.

[Butter]

So, why is everyone freaking out over this? From what I understand, this flu isn't even that nasty to get. It's just like any other flu strain we've had in the past. It will kill those who are particularly susceptible. So what's the big fucking deal? People have been around other people with the flu throughout time. Now all of a sudden no one can be near anyone else who might've been slightly ill? What the hell?

[JonInMiddleGA]

So, why is everyone freaking out over this? From what I understand, this flu isn't even that nasty to get. It's just like any other flu strain we've had in the past. It will kill those who are particularly susceptible. So what's the big fucking deal? People have been around other people with the flu throughout time. Now all of a sudden no one can be near anyone else who might've been slightly ill? What the hell?

Check up the thread a bit, there were several posts that tried to point out the differences between this vs the usual flu season situation.

[Ksyrup]

After 2.5 days of flu symptoms, I'm heading to the doctor this afternoon. I thought I was getting better yesterday morning, then it really hit about 6pm last night. I've lost over 4 pounds in 2 days (3.5 the first day, but I drank 4 gatorades yesterday which I guess helped). This sucks - whatever it is.

[Samdari]

Just quoting the man, samdari, and I don't assume that I have any competence to call his expertise into question, despite access to google. He clearly was not pursuing an anti-vaccine agenda as you suggest but trying to bring some reasonable perspective to CNN's somewhat overblown coverage by pointing out the danger in calls for an early vaccine. Did he exaggerate in order to make his point? Possibly but his point, it seems to me, is still valid - rushing out a vaccine in response to calls from a relatively unsophisticated media and public carries dangers of its own and should be resisted.

Personal point here - my mother had an awful reaction to an anti-flu vaccine in the late 1990s only part of which, ironically, was that she couldn't shake off flu-like symptoms for over six months causing me to investigate and learn that there was no shortage of such reactions and some fatal.

What is needed is a rational response coming out of medical expertise not the knee-jerk reaction demanded by media hype and public panic. Communities are closing down, international travel is coming to a halt and there is every danger that the recent modest indications that the world economic downturn is levelling off could disappear overnight for what might, in the end, prove to be another Y2K style panic. We need a rational, informed response to this situation not one driven by media hype.

I understand what you were doing.

My point is that an article decrying media pandemic hysteria completely unsupported by fact does not really drive home the point that we need a measured response when it contains anti-vaccine media hysteria completely unsupported by fact.

You are right of course, that every vaccine has risks that the patient will get the disease being vaccinated for. I would go further that these risks are not communicated well to patients recieving said vaccines very well. However, they do prevent hundreds of thousands of deaths every year, even while causing a few. From a public health perspective, that vaccine is a no-brainer. From perspective of the families of the few, it is an incredible outrage.

[terpkristin]

Interesting talk from the 2007 TED conference about "lessons learned" from the 1918 flu pandemic. Laurie Garrett on lessons from the 1918 flu | Video on TED.com (http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/laurie_garrett_on_lessons_from_the_1918_flu.html)

(also available on the TED video podcast feed on iTunes)

They also did a follow-up interview with her the other day, posted it to the TED blog: TED Blog: Q&A with Laurie Garrett: "This is a huge wake-up call" (http://blog.ted.com/2009/04/qa_with_laurie.php)

It's interesting stuff.

/tk

[Lathum]

After 2.5 days of flu symptoms, I'm heading to the doctor this afternoon. I thought I was getting better yesterday morning, then it really hit about 6pm last night. I've lost over 4 pounds in 2 days (3.5 the first day, but I drank 4 gatorades yesterday which I guess helped). This sucks - whatever it is.

good luck

[Sun Tzu]

Aparently they closed down a high school and a middle school in San Jose, which is a *very* populated are about 10 minutes from here. Karlifornia actually lives in San Jose.

I just got over a bit of a head cold, in fact I wound up staying home on Tuesday just to recoup, but I'm feeling 100% peachy now. My wife has the same thing...stuffy, runny nose, sneezy, sinus headache. It lasted about 2-3 days and cleared up rather quickly. This was not to be confused with allergies though, having grown up with allergies I know the difference between a bad allergy hit and a bug.

I don't know anybody around here who has come down with this thing, so it hasn't really hit home yet. You can bet that when my wife started feeling sick that I made sure that she didn't start getting chills or feeling achey.

Good grief.

[Butter]

Check up the thread a bit, there were several posts that tried to point out the differences between this vs the usual flu season situation.

But then I have to read the whole thread.

*pouts*

[Subby]

It's probably going to get worse before it gets better
Very insightful! :thumbsup:

[Lathum]

Very insightful! :thumbsup:

You're right, this is a much better contribution.

[DanGarion]

Very insightful! :thumbsup:

Are you one of those internet blog spammers?

[Senator]

So much for Fort Worth Mayfest. Damn, that is a fun time.

[Subby]

You're right, this is a much better contribution.
Well as a wise man once told me, they'll probably get worse before they start to get better!

[Subby]

Are you one of those internet blog spammers?
Maybe you should report the post.

Just kidding...I know you aren't that big of a tool.

[Lathum]

Well as a wise man once told me, they'll probably get worse before they start to get better!

Zing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gstelmack]

So, why is everyone freaking out over this? From what I understand, this flu isn't even that nasty to get. It's just like any other flu strain we've had in the past. It will kill those who are particularly susceptible. So what's the big fucking deal? People have been around other people with the flu throughout time. Now all of a sudden no one can be near anyone else who might've been slightly ill? What the hell?

The responses by most health departments / officials are really solid. Because this is a "new" virus, most people have limited immunity, so it's likely to hit LOTS of people. Media needs to keep reminding folks that most of those getting sick from this are recovering fine (that's always buried near the end of stories, so people think they're going to die if they catch it, which is unlikely), but any flu can be serious, and flu already kills 36,000 a year here in the US.

The big concern is small death rate times large number of ill folks equals lots of deaths, even with most recovering fine. So health officials are trying to limit the spread as best they can, especially while they make a vaccine to give folks immunity. Media needs to moderate coverage to stop panicking folks.

[gstelmack]

Possibly but his point, it seems to me, is still valid - rushing out a vaccine in response to calls from a relatively unsophisticated media and public carries dangers of its own and should be resisted.

Most vaccines that have caused problems have been from live viruses, and they use dead a lot more (although the nasal spray flu one was using live for a while, if not still; I won't get one from a live virus if I can help it). And allergies to latex and eggs are warned about with every flu vaccine I get and also cause problems. However, do you think going slow with a polio or smallpox vaccine would have been a good idea?

[duckman]

Looks like this is not as bad as feared:

hxxp://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,518578,00.html

[Cringer]

<object width="400" height="267"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=2087739&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=&amp;fullscreen=1" /><embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=2087739&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=&amp;fullscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="400" height="267"></embed></object><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/2087739">Swine Flu: The Packers</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/brienlee">brienlee</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

[sterlingice]

We had signs out at the grocery store today over the meat section saying "Pork is perfectly safe to eat, provided you cook it past a 160 degree internal temperature". Damn, no more medium-rare bacon!

My even-tempered and much-less-sarcastic-or-cynical-than-I wife pointed this out to me while scoffing at it.

SI

[Sun Tzu]

awesome

[JeeberD]

One of my employees had to leave town three days ago because her dad had the flu and was in the hospital in Brownsville. I heard today that it was confirmed that he has the swine type. Now all the rest of the employees are demanding that she not work for at least a week once she gets back into town.


Well, she called tonight to say that she was on her way back to town, and that she was hoping to pick up some shifts this weekend. I wonder how the other servers are going to react... :lol:

And yes, she said that her father DID have the swine flu, though by the time she got down there he was already recovering and was no longer contagious.

[JeeberD]

Dola-

My local school district, Lewisville ISD, has canceled all classes until May 11 as well. Luckily, Denton ISD (the school district in which my restaurant is located), hasn't canceled anything...yet.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/education/stories/050209dnmetfluschools.3f77bd4.html

Lewisville school officials are canceling classes next week because of a confirmed case of swine flu and a number of probable cases – a decision that affects about 50,000 students in 13 cities.

[mauchow]

We have not gotten an update from KSyrup, I expect only the worst......

[Ksyrup]

This is not Ksyrup, this is Mrs. Ksyrup. I found a note in his wallet to let you guys know he died...

I'm doing better. I went to the dr. yesterday and they told me I had either a viral infection or a stomach bug. Whatever it was, it kicked my ass. I drank 10 20 oz gatorades in 18 hours, and still needed an IV drip at the dr.'s office when they saw me. My stomach is still popping and rumbling every now and then, but nothing like the last few days. I still haven't eaten anything but crackers, soup, and toast since Tuesday. Even the thought of real food is still making me a bit sick to my stomach.

[Logan]

Damn, feel better man.

[Sun Tzu]

If u had teh swine fluz, u culd change ur name to Kswyne lolz

[DanGarion]

This is not Ksyrup, this is Mrs. Ksyrup. I found a note in his wallet to let you guys know he died...

I'm doing better. I went to the dr. yesterday and they told me I had either a viral infection or a stomach bug. Whatever it was, it kicked my ass. I drank 10 20 oz gatorades in 18 hours, and still needed an IV drip at the dr.'s office when they saw me. My stomach is still popping and rumbling every now and then, but nothing like the last few days. I still haven't eaten anything but crackers, soup, and toast since Tuesday. Even the thought of real food is still making me a bit sick to my stomach.

Dibs on Ksyrup's post count.

[chinaski]

'Walking well' flood hospitals with -- or without -- flu symptoms - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/05/02/worried.well.hospitals/index.html)

Why are humans so dumb?

[Ksyrup]

Gotta love the 2-for-1 for the media - coverage building up the emergency, and then coverage about the overreaction.

[DanGarion]

'Walking well' flood hospitals with -- or without -- flu symptoms - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/05/02/worried.well.hospitals/index.html)

Why are humans so dumb?

Blame the sensationalist media.

[Chief Rum]

As long as we're doing a check in, I hope to see a post here from Cringer soon as well.

[Chief Rum]

Well, okay, he posted the Packer vid yesterday, so I guess he's okay, but an update to be sure on how he's coming along would alleviate concerns.

[Cringer]

Uhm, I may die soon. (OK, probably not but I sure didn't help myself out today)

I have had trouble sleeping with this, but finally got over that yesterday morning it seems as I slept until 5 p.m., fever went away, the diarrhea went away (for the most part), got up for about 6 hours then went back to sleep because of youth soccer games this morning. Woke up at 4:30 a.m., and by 7 a.m. when I needed to wake up I was ready to fall asleep again.

Went to soccer, coached both teams, one at 9, the other at 10. Then the kicker, it was Parent's Day so the parents and coaches played games of their own. So I played in two games. It was very difficult to play in two games. I drank a gallon plus of water doing it. I don't think I will play soccer with the flu again.

Got home, slept, just got up, I should live. Feel like crap, but I am sure I will get better at some point here in another day or two.

[Passacaglia]

So you had flu symptoms, and went to the hotbed of overreation that is a youth soccer game? Gutsy.

[Mac Howard]

Most vaccines that have caused problems have been from live viruses, and they use dead a lot more (although the nasal spray flu one was using live for a while, if not still; I won't get one from a live virus if I can help it). And allergies to latex and eggs are warned about with every flu vaccine I get and also cause problems. However, do you think going slow with a polio or smallpox vaccine would have been a good idea?

This is not polio or smallpox, gstelmack, it's a media-hyped flu strain.

But you're tilting at windmills. My point is not against vaccination but against RUSHING OUT a vaccine as the media would have them do. Three times in the last couple of days I've seen medical professionals try to tell media personnel that even if a vaccine were produced in a couple of weeks it would be 6 months or more before it would be made available to the public. Far too late for any significant affect on the current outbreak.

Of course they'll go ahead and develop the vaccine and it'll be used but hopefully when the information about allergies etc that you mention above is also available to protect those at risk from severe unintended reactions.

The responses by most health departments / officials are really solid. Because this is a "new" virus, most people have limited immunity, so it's likely to hit LOTS of people. Media needs to keep reminding folks that most of those getting sick from this are recovering fine (that's always buried near the end of stories, so people think they're going to die if they catch it, which is unlikely), but any flu can be serious, and flu already kills 36,000 a year here in the US.

The big concern is small death rate times large number of ill folks equals lots of deaths, even with most recovering fine. So health officials are trying to limit the spread as best they can, especially while they make a vaccine to give folks immunity. Media needs to moderate coverage to stop panicking folks.

I couldn't agree more.

I saw a press conference on Friday night on A-PAC (the Australian Community Access Channel) with the Australian Chief Medical Officer and it was refreshingly free of hyperbole and sensationalism. He emphasised that this is a potential pandemic, not actual, and the advisories coming from them were precautions aimed at preventing the pandemic not actions aimed at controlling an existing one and castigated the press for not communicating a sense of perspective.

"Suspected" cases he explained were officially categorised thus:

1) people who presented themselves to GPs and hospitals with "flu" (or these days "swine flu")

2) those who actually had flu symptoms. These are "suspected"

3) those whose symptoms corresponded to known swine flu symptoms and whose recent past realistically supports the idea they have made contact with the disease. These are designated "probable"

4) confirmed cases. These are, of course, "confirmed".

He pointed out that, despite the extensive media coverage in the Australian press and tv, there wasn't even a single "probable", let alone "confirmed", as yet.

All cases outside of Mexico excepting the Mexican boy, have been mild. Which is not unexpected because it is a variant of the usual 'seasonal" flu and there's no reason to believe it to be more fatal than that ie 1 in 1000 and even that 1 tends to be people with other medical problems.

Another interesting comment: at the time he spoke it was unknown whether the current vaccines were effective against this variant. They're assumed not to be because it is a previously unknown variant and it would be irresponsible to imply that people are immune if they have recently been vaccinated, causing them to act less cautiously, when this may not be the case. Nevertheless he advised people to be vaccinated as we are now going into winter and the traditional flu period.

He pointed out that even if a vaccine were developed tomorrow it would be nigh on 6 months before being made available to the public and only useful if there were a second wave and not for this first.

He also commented on the original idea that it seemed to attack young people. Further investigation shows that the appearance of this in Mexico was probably because the majority of young people affected were health workers and had much greater exposure to the virus.

Another piece of good news is that the incubation period was not 2-7 days as originally thought but was much closer to the 2 than the 7. That means less chance of contracting the disease from people who seem to be ok. Also that the first symptoms were nearly always fever. The effectiveness of thermal imaging systems at airports he said was impressive because of these two facts.

All in all, the current virus will probably not lead to a pandemic but you can't rule out further mutation which could change that (of course those who don't believe in evolution can ignore that ;) ). The precautions taken by medical professionals are sensible, responsible but should not be overstated to the extent that they cause panic in a relatively unsophisticated (in medical terms) public. One negative that has come out of the sensationalised coverage is that the stockpiling of anti-viral drugs by the public has brought complaints from some GPs of the difficulty some patients who genuinely need the drugs have had finding them. Manufacturers have been asked to ramp up production.

Oh, and just to illustrate that we too have our Joe Bidens, a government advisory has told Australians to stock up on at least two weeks of canned food just in case of a pandemic requiring people to stay indoors for a forthnight. Guess what happened :rolleyes: So if you happen to have a couple of cans of Spam on the shelf stick them Australian ebay. You could get a good price for them. :)