A Glimmer of Hope for Playoff

[BradS]

Rep. Joe Barton of Texas, who has introduced legislation that would prevent the NCAA from labeling a game a national championship unless it is the outcome of a playoff, bluntly warned Swofford: "If we don't see some action in the next two months, on a voluntary switch to a playoff system, then you will see this bill move."

Putting some heat on the BCS (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4121294)

[molson]

Unbelievable.

Maybe Congress should just determine the national champion.

[BradS]

Whatever it takes!

[molson]

So the theory is that calling the NCAA champion "national champion" is fraudulent or misleading?

And why should Boise St. and Utah have access, and not division II or III schools? Isn't it the NCAA that allows those schools to be division I in the first place?

Worst case, the NCAA could just change the name, or promote the BCS schools to a higher, super-division.

I'm also thinking I should get some kind of punitive damage award in years when the Super Bowl isn't really "Super".

[Big Fo]

Go big government, 16-team playoff ftw

edit: it looks like they want an 8-team playoff

[BradS]

You make some interesting points but my point is more in line with teams like an undefeated Auburn(few years back) who were shut out with what amounts to splitting hairs or a few less style points. BCS system is lacking in more than one way.

[molson]

Go big government, 16-team playoff ftw

edit: it looks like they want an 8-team playoff

So I guess they want 7 automatic bids and a wild card?

[Pumpy Tudors]

I think this whole scenario is bullshit unless the government wants to take over the whole thing. Let the government determine the schedules of every game, let them pick the playoff teams, let them decide who plays on television, etc., etc. Hell, I'd give them control over television scheduling just to see which conferences get the most national coverage. Given how much they're sticking their noses into this, I would hope that I could see bottom feeders from the Sun Belt just as much as the Big Ten.

Michigan vs. Ohio State, my ass. Give me Louisiana-Monroe vs. Western Kentucky!

[Chief Rum]

System ain't fixing itself, that's for sure.

[MJ4H]

Unbelievable.

Maybe Congress should just determine the national champion.

It would be no worse than the current system.

[RainMaker]

So the theory is that calling the NCAA champion "national champion" is fraudulent or misleading?

And why should Boise St. and Utah have access, and not division II or III schools? Isn't it the NCAA that allows those schools to be division I in the first place?


Division II and Division III have national championship games. Each team is eligible to win the NC before the season. That is not the case in D1 which is why it's tough to call it a national championship.

[Atocep]

MLB should have to change the name of the World Series and professional sports in the US should stop calling their championships a world championship.

[RainMaker]

MLB should have to change the name of the World Series and professional sports in the US should stop calling their championships a world championship.
That isn't what I got out of it. I think they are saying that it's not really a championship if every team participating in the league doesn't have a shot to win it.

[RainMaker]

I think this whole scenario is bullshit unless the government wants to take over the whole thing. Let the government determine the schedules of every game, let them pick the playoff teams, let them decide who plays on television, etc., etc. Hell, I'd give them control over television scheduling just to see which conferences get the most national coverage. Given how much they're sticking their noses into this, I would hope that I could see bottom feeders from the Sun Belt just as much as the Big Ten.

Michigan vs. Ohio State, my ass. Give me Louisiana-Monroe vs. Western Kentucky!

It's not about scheduling and fairness necessarily. It's about antitrust issues and unfair business practices.

[Atocep]

That isn't what I got out of it. I think they are saying that it's not really a championship if every team participating in the league doesn't have a shot to win it.

If the NCAA doesn't do what the gov't wants then they plan on introducing legislation to prevent them from using the term "National Championship". Then professional sports should be forced to do what I said above.

Just because people want to see a playoff doesn't mean they should be cheering on congress in this case. They have no business getting involved here.

[RainMaker]

If the NCAA doesn't do what the gov't wants then they plan on introducing legislation to prevent them from using the term "National Championship". Then professional sports should be forced to do what I said above.

Just because people want to see a playoff doesn't mean they should be cheering on congress in this case. They have no business getting involved here.

The NCAA operates as a monopoly and our government intervenes in them from time to time when something is deemed unfair.

[MJ4H]

I would support Hitler if he was for this at this point. It is beyond ridiculous.

[Atocep]

The NCAA operates as a monopoly and our government intervenes in them from time to time when something is deemed unfair.

That's fine, as long as they step in and prevent other sports from using misleading names for the championships as well I'm fine with it.

[spleen1015]

The system should be changed, but the government shouldn't force it to be. They should stay out of it.

[Chief Rum]

The system should be changed, but the government shouldn't force it to be. They should stay out of it.

If a bad system won't change on its own, it's the job of the government to make it change.

[Chief Rum]

That's fine, as long as they step in and prevent other sports from using misleading names for the championships as well I'm fine with it.

No offense, but seems kinda like a petty little thing to get worked up about. Like a cop giving a server a ticket, so next time the server takes care of a fireman, he serves him lukewarm coffee and says, "Take that!"

[Pumpy Tudors]

Well, you guys have fun.

[Noop]

A playoff system is long overdue, it should have been implemented when the NCAA put in scholarship limitations on every team. I think they should have an auto bid for each of the conference winners. If you don't make it then you can play in a bowl game.

Speaking of bowl games they need to be reduced because it is oversaturated right now.

[Big Fo]

I think they should have an auto bid for each of the conference winners. If you don't make it then you can play in a bowl game.



11 conference winners, five wild cards determined by something similar to the current BCS rankings, seeding done by the same rankings.

[SnDvls]

so are they going to then mandate a 256 team basketball tournament so "almost" every team has a chance there too?

[Atocep]

No offense, but seems kinda like a petty little thing to get worked up about. Like a cop giving a server a ticket, so next time the server takes care of a fireman, he serves him lukewarm coffee and says, "Take that!"

Yet its not petty for congress to tell the NCAA what they can call their championship just because Texas got left out and the MWC wants an auto bid? If Texas had played for the national title last season and the MWC conference had an auto-bid then Orrin Hatch and Joe Barton wouldn't be saying a damn thing righw now.

I'm not ok with the gov't stepping in and dictating what our sports do. They had no business getting involved with steroids in baseball and they have no business telling the NCAA what they call their championship game or how they should go about choosing it.

[Big Fo]

In basketball all a team has to do is win its conference. In football a team can win the conference unbeaten for the season and still get screwed. There is a big difference.

[SnDvls]

In basketball all a team has to do is win its conference. In football a team can win the conference unbeaten for the season and still get screwed. There is a big difference.


no they must win their conference tournament...big difference.

[SnDvls]

I don't have a problem with a "playoff"

I also don't have a problem with the system as it is now

I have a problem with how the selection will happen for the participants for the "playoff".

the bill wants to "make it fair" but there isn't a way to do that.

[Big Fo]

winning the conference = winning the conference tournament that decides the conference champion (unless there is no such tournament and regular season standings decide the winner)

[Chief Rum]

Yet its not petty for congress to tell the NCAA what they can call their championship just because Texas got left out and the MWC wants an auto bid? If Texas had played for the national title last season and the MWC conference had an auto-bid then Orrin Hatch and Joe Barton wouldn't be saying a damn thing righw now.

I'm not ok with the gov't stepping in and dictating what our sports do. They had no business getting involved with steroids in baseball and they have no business telling the NCAA what they call their championship game or how they should go about choosing it.

If Congress doesn't get involved with the steroid issue, nothing happens, and we still have a game acting like there's no problem.

And if the MWC and Texas gets those two Congressman off of the playoff horse, they'll be replaced by the senators from Idaho or Hawaii, or whoever's state senator who gets left out. That's a straw man, Atocep, and irrelevant to the issue. I know you can construct a logically valid argument better than going with that.

I have no problem with your stance, although I disagree with it. I do have a discussion-level sorta problem with you resorting to some side argument, like what other sports leagues call their champions, as some sort of support for your stance, which frankly does a really poor job of it. There are better arguments to be made.

Edit for clarity: Your "stance" as described by you in the second paragraph above quoted.

[SnDvls]

winning the conference = winning the conference tournament that decides the conference champion (unless there is no such tournament and regular season standings decide the winner)


so SW Mary & Joseph's School for the Dumb that went 0-23, but wins 3 games in a row deserves a shot over James Dumb U. who went 15-0 in league play but got unlucky in their conference tournament?

I don't have a problem with how the NCAA tournament is, but think the person presenting the bill is showing a double standard in how he wants football run, but not basketball/baseball/softball/hockey etc.

[Chief Rum]

so are they going to then mandate a 256 team basketball tournament so "almost" every team has a chance there too?

The basketball tournament doesn't leave out teams that could not only possible win it all, but could be among the favorites to win it all.

No one outside of the 65-team field this year was going to win the championship if inserted arbitrarily into the field, and that can probably be asserted all the way back to at least when the field was expanded to a 64 team field 25 years ago or so. And every team does indeed have a chance to force their way in, and without resorting to polls.

Can't say that in football, where every year, several potential champions are left to play meaningless bowl games, or even left out of the BCS altogether, and with teams in conferences that can't force their way into the picture without once in a lifetime type of seasons (and even then, not enough, see Boise State, Utah, Hawaii, BYU, etc.).

[Chief Rum]

I don't have a problem with how the NCAA tournament is, but think the person presenting the bill is showing a double standard in how he wants football run, but not basketball/baseball/softball/hockey etc.

How or why would he legislate other sports? No one seriously questions the fairness of how these other sports determine their champions (except maybe to try to build up irrelevant arguments to support their flawed backing of the current D-1 college football system).

[SnDvls]

The basketball tournament doesn't leave out teams that could not only possible win it all, but could be among the favorites to win it all.

No one outside of the 65-team field this year was going to win the championship if inserted arbitrarily into the field, and that can probably be asserted all the way back to at least when the field was expanded to a 64 team field 25 years ago or so. And every team does indeed have a chance to force their way in, and without resorting to polls.

Can't say that in football, where every year, several potential champions are left to play meaningless bowl games, or even left out of the BCS altogether, and with teams in conferences that can't force their way into the picture without once in a lifetime type of seasons (and even then, not enough, see Boise State, Utah, Hawaii, BYU, etc.).


but you're leaving someone out and that is the point of the bill. Go for it all. Does team #9 have a shot to win it, probally? What about team #10? Then they'll expand the playoff to 16 teams and team #17 will bitch about it.

[Big Fo]

so SW Mary & Joseph's School for the Dumb that went 0-23, but wins 3 games in a row deserves a shot over James Dumb U. who went 15-0 in league play but got unlucky in their conference tournament?

I don't have a problem with how the NCAA tournament is, but think the person presenting the bill is showing a double standard in how he wants football run, but not basketball/baseball/softball/hockey etc.

It might be flawed but at least every D1-A team can make it to the championship or playoffs that decide the championship in basketball. College basketball conference tournaments v. deciding winners by regular season standings aren't really what we're talking about here though.

[larrymcg421]

but you're leaving someone out and that is the point of the bill. Go for it all. Does team #9 have a shot to win it, probally? What about team #10? Then they'll expand the playoff to 16 teams and team #17 will bitch about it.

I'd rather have the #17 team bitch than the #3 team.

Not that I support government action in this.

[Matthean]

but you're leaving someone out and that is the point of the bill. Go for it all. Does team #9 have a shot to win it, probally? What about team #10? Then they'll expand the playoff to 16 teams and team #17 will bitch about it.

Well, if the #9 ranked team is undefeated and still missing out, they might have a point.

Top 8 BCS teams get in. I wouldn't be opposed to conference champs getting the higher seeds once the 8 are picked.

[Chief Rum]

but you're leaving someone out and that is the point of the bill. Go for it all. Does team #9 have a shot to win it, probally? What about team #10? Then they'll expand the playoff to 16 teams and team #17 will bitch about it.

No, the point of the bill is to force action, because the BCS does not seem inclined to do it on its own. If the BCS wants to avoid the bill, they can devise their own playoff in the manner they see fit that meets whatever minimums the writers of the bill intend--so long as it finally gets the system to some sort of a legitamite playoff.

As for that last, it's a tired and worthless argument (no offense, it just is, I know you're trotting out the party line, so hopefully you don't take offense). The "arguing 16 vs 17" line is one of the entrenched flawed arguments for the current system, which completely and irresponsibly ignores the fact that the current system has us arguing over 2 vs 3.

[molson]

If a bad system won't change on its own, it's the job of the government to make it change.

It's a sport, and a private entity. Why should they be allowed to run things the way they want?

What if Congress doesn't like the MLB playoff structure, or the season length of the NFL?

It's mind-boggling to me that people want the federal government legislating sports. We're not talking about drugs, or gambling, or rigging games, we're talking about the way a collegiate athletic association awards championships.

It's a little creepy how much some people want a playoff.

[molson]

No, the point of the bill is to force action, because the BCS does not seem inclined to do it on its own. If the BCS wants to avoid the bill, they can devise their own playoff in the manner they see fit that meets whatever minimums the writers of the bill intend--so long as it finally gets the system to some sort of a legitamite playoff.



There's no constitutional right to a playoff, I don't know why you're talking about it like it's some kind of entitlement. There's plenty of arguments on both sides - this is like any other sports discussion: DH/No DH, day v. night World Series games, how much should the QB be protected in the NFL, etc.

Though, at the end of the day, this is all obnoxious grandstanding, it will NEVER happen. It's a huge waste of time and an insult to taxpayers that they're even having committees on such a thing.

[molson]

If Congress doesn't get involved with the steroid issue, nothing happens, and we still have a game acting like there's no problem.


Congress didn't do anything about steroids, aside from some committee meetings and a report. Certainly no actual legislation that I'm aware of.

In congresspeople want to have an opinion about playoffs, great, everyone can have an opinion. But for the love of god, they shouldn't force their opinion about a playoff system on the country.

[molson]

11 conference winners, five wild cards determined by something similar to the current BCS rankings, seeding done by the same rankings.

Anything that includes the Sun Belt Champion in a final 16 is a complete joke.

[molson]

If a bad system won't change on its own, it's the job of the government to make it change.

It's not a "bad" system if it's the system that works for most of the participants.

The purpose of major college athletics is to make money.

[molson]

It's interesting that the proposal is for an 8 team playoff. How does that help access? How often is a non-BCS team one of the best 8 teams in the country? How does this increase access for the Sun Belt conference? If Troy gets into a playoff over the #2 team in the SEC, maybe the SEC should go whining to congress, because that clearly isn't fair either.

What about independents? How can we guarantee fair access to Army and Navy? Maybe the winner of the Army/Navy game should get in? What if Congress decides that the service academies in the playoffs is good for national morale, and just legislates them in?

Congress needs to find something more important to do. I have some suggestions if they can't think of anything.

[Big Fo]

Anything that includes the Sun Belt Champion in a final 16 is a complete joke.

It would be much better than the current system, which is the real joke.

[molson]

It would be much better than the current system, which is the real joke.

That's just an opinion. And it's not shared by those who have the right to actually execute the idea. You're just a fan. You can spend your money somewhere else if you don't like it.

Who should pay the money lost by the NCAA, bowls, conferences, and universities if they're forced to have a playoff? Taxpayers?

This isn't about fraudulent advertising or whatever. It's just about preference. Maybe you don't like how a movie ends. The government shouldn't force the movie to end a different way. Maybe you don't like that McDonald's stops serving breakfast at 10:30. The government shouldn't force them to change that.

[larrymcg421]

Anything that includes the Sun Belt Champion in a final 16 is a complete joke.

I disagree. Sure, almost any team in the SEC or the Big 10 would certainly be better, but they didn't win their conference and thus got eliminated. If you win your conference, you get a shot no matter what. If you don't win, then you might get a wilcard spot, but don't count on it.

I still think it was ridiculous that Nebraska played in the title game in 2001 when Colorado won the conference and beat them 62-36.

[ISiddiqui]

I'm not ok with the gov't stepping in and dictating what our sports do. They had no business getting involved with steroids in baseball and they have no business telling the NCAA what they call their championship game or how they should go about choosing it.

This position is ok, but then the government should be out completely. That means no anti-trust protection, no public funding for stadiums, etc.

[larrymcg421]

Who should pay the money lost by the NCAA, bowls, conferences, and universities if they're forced to have a playoff? Taxpayers?


I'd argue that a 16 team playoff would make tons of money, and bowls would still exists for teams that don't qualify.

[ISiddiqui]

Congress needs to find something more important to do. I have some suggestions if they can't think of anything.

To be quite honest, I'd rather have Congress be distracted than pass some of the stuff they seemingly want to do ;).

[molson]

I disagree. Sure, almost any team in the SEC or the Big 10 would certainly be better, but they didn't win their conference and thus got eliminated. If you win your conference, you get a shot no matter what. If you don't win, then you might get a wilcard spot, but don't count on it.

I still think it was ridiculous that Nebraska played in the title game in 2001 when Colorado won the conference and beat them 62-36.

I think it creates all kinds of problems in a small tournament. It's silly that the the SEC or ACC has the same reward as the Sun Belt. Maybe Vanderbilt should move to the Sun Belt. They'd be guaranteed a playoff spot every year.

If conference champions are the majority of participants in a tournament, the talent in the conferences needs to be more evenly distributed.

[Big Fo]

That's just an opinion. And it's not shared by those who have the right to actually execute the idea. You're just a fan. You can spend your money somewhere else if you don't like it.


Yes, my reply was an opinion to your opinion. Hopefully your head isn't quite so far up your own ass that you saw your statement to be some kind of fact.

I suppose we shouldn't complain about things we already like in hopes that they might get even better :shrug:

[Big Fo]

I disagree. Sure, almost any team in the SEC or the Big 10 would certainly be better, but they didn't win their conference and thus got eliminated. If you win your conference, you get a shot no matter what. If you don't win, then you might get a wilcard spot, but don't count on it.

I still think it was ridiculous that Nebraska played in the title game in 2001 when Colorado won the conference and beat them 62-36.

In addition to the fairness, having a few supposedly weaker teams would give the big schools more motivation for the top seeds in the tournament, a decent counterpoint to the "this will ruin the regular season" brigade.

[molson]

Yes, my reply was an opinion to your opinion. Hopefully your head isn't quite so far up your own ass that you saw your statement to be some kind of fact.

I suppose we shouldn't complain about things we already like in hopes that they might get even better :shrug:

Your opinion is valid. But it has nothing to do with whether the federal government should make decisions regarding athletic competition. You opinion is based on a preference about sports.

Complain all you want. If there's enough complaints about a playoff (especially complaints that involve not spending money or tv time on the NCAA), then eventually, there will be a playoff, because it would be more profitable. Right now it wouldn't be, otherwise they'd do it.

[larrymcg421]

Your opinion is valid. But it has nothing to do with whether the federal government should make decisions regarding athletic competition. You opinion is based on a preference about sports.

Complain all you want. If there's enough complaints about a playoff (especially complaints that involve not spending money or tv time on the NCAA), then eventually, there will be a playoff, because it would be more profitable. Right now it wouldn't be, otherwise they'd do it.

Because nobody makes bad business decisions? There's no chance they think it wouldn't be more profitiable, but are wrong? That's the argument you're running with?

[molson]

To be truly "fair", the NCAA would have to be setup like an American professional sport - for example, have different conferences and divisions that are as balanced as possible.

In the NCAA, that might involve a "American Conference, Southeast Division" that might have Georgia, Florida St, Florida, Vanderbilt, LSU, Miami, Mississippi St, Louisiana-Lafayette, Florida Atlantic, Troy. Guess who's not getting to the playoffs in that setup, no matter how many teams make it? You'd have the bigger schools succeed, because the bigger schools have more resources. Troy sure as hell ain't getting anywhere, even if they were the best old "Sun Belt" team, by far. So why should Troy be granted a clear path to a final 16 by getting to play weak programs? How does that make any sense for business, or fairness?

And if you don't accept that premise (of bigger schools being better) as "fair", now you're talking a recruiting budget cap, or a high school entry draft or something.

[molson]

Because nobody makes bad business decisions? There's no chance they think it wouldn't be more profitiable, but are wrong? That's the argument you're running with?

They could very well be wrong. But that's their call to make. It isn't up to the government to correct bad business decisions (at least until recently)

So is the new justification for congressional sports legislation "it would be better financially and they just don't know it"? That's pretty a scary precedent.

[larrymcg421]

They could very well be wrong. But that's their call to make. It isn't up to the government to correct bad business decisions (at least until recently)

So is the new justification for congressional sports legislation "it would be better financially and they just don't know it"? That's pretty a scary precedent.

I've already said in this thread that I support a playoff, but don't support government action here (although I did with steroids).

I was just taking issue with your ridiculous argument that the playoffs wouldn't be more profitable because then the NCAA would be doing it.

[molson]

.

I was just taking issue with your ridiculous argument that the playoffs wouldn't be more profitable because then the NCAA would be doing it.

I have no idea if that's true. But obviously the NCAA does, and they have the vote that counts.

Why do you think there's no playoff if not money? There's more parties with their hands in the treasure chest now, with the big universities, bowls, etc. But that counts as money too. They obviously think there's more money to be made with the premiere programs being protected. They would rather have a 10-2 Georgia team in the playoffs (or just a BCS game) than an 8-3 Sun Belt Champion Troy. I can't say I blame them.

[larrymcg421]

I have no idea if that's true. But obviously the NCAA does, and they have the vote that counts.

Why do you think there's no playoff if not money? There's more parties with their hands in the treasure chest now, with the big universities, bowls, etc. But that counts as money too.

My point was that they could have analyzed the situation and decided it would be less profit, and could be dead wrong. Your earlier statement was saying that one thing (the NCAA not having playoffs) proved the other (playoffs wouldn't be more profitable.)

[molson]

My point was that they could have analyzed the situation and decided it would be less profit, and could be dead wrong. Your earlier statement was saying that one thing (the NCAA not having playoffs) proved the other (playoffs wouldn't be more profitable.)

No, I didn't mean that, but I can see how it reads that way. I agree that they absolutely could have analyzed the situation, and be dead wrong on the money. I didn't mean to say anything's proven (except what the NCAA's current opinion is).

[JPhillips]

Good to know Rep. Barton has time for both secession and playoffs.

[SnDvls]

No, the point of the bill is to force action, because the BCS does not seem inclined to do it on its own. If the BCS wants to avoid the bill, they can devise their own playoff in the manner they see fit that meets whatever minimums the writers of the bill intend--so long as it finally gets the system to some sort of a legitamite playoff.

As for that last, it's a tired and worthless argument (no offense, it just is, I know you're trotting out the party line, so hopefully you don't take offense). The "arguing 16 vs 17" line is one of the entrenched flawed arguments for the current system, which completely and irresponsibly ignores the fact that the current system has us arguing over 2 vs 3.

I know it's the "party line" but I don't want them to do 8 teams where everyone agrees to the system, then 4 years from now team #9 and some conference feels left out and then they bitch and it gets changed to 16 or whatever. Agree to whatever system then stop bitching about it and don't try to change it down the line. And yes I know this is not what is happening now I just don't want to see it keep changing.

I guess my bigger fear is you have power conference teams playing to go undefeated against inferior teams instead of playing prime time matchups in nonconference as the 12th game was intended to do. And you have "midmajors" start to do the same just to make the "playoff"

[SnDvls]

Well, if the #9 ranked team is undefeated and still missing out, they might have a point.

Top 8 BCS teams get in. I wouldn't be opposed to conference champs getting the higher seeds once the 8 are picked.

why would they have to be undefeated? It's about the best teams and if 5 teams have 1 or 2 losses and only 4 make it don't they have an argument too?

What if a three loss teams wins the ACC and the team they beat suffered their only loss in that game? There are just too many holes in the 8 team playoff system just as there are in the current system.

[Raiders Army]

Just run the tournament for the regular season. The losers would fight it out in a losers' bracket and we'd really know who was ranked #26, #58, or #111 at the end of the year.

[Raiders Army]

BTW, that was a joke.

[CamEdwards]

This position is ok, but then the government should be out completely. That means no anti-trust protection, no public funding for stadiums, etc.

Yes please. I would much prefer this to the idea that Congress (or any other governmental entity) has the authority to involve itself in the outcome of a sporting event.

[Samdari]

So the theory is that calling the NCAA champion "national champion" is fraudulent or misleading?

No, but obviously their misleading labeling of the BCS champion as the national champion has fooled you.

The NCAA does not award a championship in football. Period. Never have.

[molson]

No, but obviously their misleading labeling of the BCS champion as the national champion has fooled you.

The NCAA does not award a championship in football. Period. Never have.

Great, so what's the problem then? They choose not to award a championship. So nobody has unfair lack of access to it.

[Passacaglia]

Well if it's the BCS Championship, shouldn't non-BCS school be completely ineligible. Maybe the non-BCS conferences and Notre Dame should form a Division 1 and one-and-a-half A.

[Noop]

The NCAA does not award a championship in football. Period. Never have.

That is false. They award championships to all non FBS divisions.

[OldGiants]

That is false. They award championships to all non FBS divisions.

Absolutely, and if the West Mountain (which is what the Congressionals were calling them, apparently) want to play in a championship, they should prove it by entering I-A (or whatever its called these days) and seeing if they can beat the Richmonds and JMUs first.

Which is where the Potato States of the world belong in the first place. :devil:

[Capital]

I love the argument that a playoff would make the other bowls meaningless. I thought they already were meaningless. There's a lot of teams out there that use the second-tier and below bowls as the first preseason game of the next season.

[RainMaker]

Your opinion is valid. But it has nothing to do with whether the federal government should make decisions regarding athletic competition. You opinion is based on a preference about sports.

The federal government steps in to make decisions for monopolies all the time. I don't see why the NCAA should be treated differently from your local electric or gas company.

[RendeR]

The current system is terrible, fraudulent and lends itself to behinds teh scenes scheming by the "in crowd" of the big conference schools leaving anyone not in that group sitting outside looking in.

It must be changed because its a joke and more often than not, it fails miserably to provide quality bowl games which the public spends obscene amounts of money on.

If it takes the government sticking a cattle prod up the NCAA's ass to get a true playoff system in place, so be it.


For my own opinion:

8 conferences of 9 teams each, current conferences with MORE than 9 teams will decide on their own, which teams will move to new/different or lower division play.

Each team plays 8 conference games (1 with each conference rival) + 2 out of conference games against teams within the other 7 conferences.

This gives us a 10 game season for ALL teams with a higher quality of schedules due to the inability of top end schools to schedule shit teams out of conference.

All current conference championship games are eliminated. The winner of the conference season has the best record overall (yes INCLUDING the OOC games) If tOSU and Mishitgan are both 10-1 at the end of teh season the head to head game decides who moves on. You want a shot at the title? WIN, period.

The 8 conference winners then get seeded RANDOMLY to eliminate complaints of "but they played a weak conference I should get to play them first not this other really good team".

3 rounds, 1 champion, no more whining and bitching because people THINK this team or that team was better. If you're best, you WIN, period. Its fair and equitable to everyone in the 72 team field.

The other 50+ teams currently in the top division get shuffled downward. Relegation systems could be considered to allow growth and change in the top division.

Teams NOT in the playoffs can still be offered bowl games and bowl games can continue their current status of holiday entertainment and a financial and image building benefit for the schools involved.