Some Combine Benchmarks (and Drafting Thoughts)

[MalcPow]

It's been awhile since I've made much of a contribution to the community's knowledge base about the game, so I thought I'd post some helpful data I've gleaned over a lot of seasons of draft classes and some tinkering with imported draft files. I'll also try to share some general commentary on the things I'm posting. I haven't done a lot of FOF playing in a good amount of time (other than staying just ahead of the axe in my remaining MP leagues), so most of this stuff will be put to far better use as a starting point for discussion and analysis from you guys. I really hope somebody has it in them to polish some of my less formed thinking on some of this stuff for ease of digestion.

There's a fair amount of information to get through, so I'll likely post position groups one at a time until I have to stop for whatever reason. I'll pick up wherever that might be (if it's not the end), some time fairly soon. So here we go...

I'll use this first section as a way to prepare you for the formatting that follows. As many of you know, the game rates players on a scale from 375 to 625, with 375 essentially equivalent to 0 and 625 equivalent to 100 on the visible ratings in game. (No idea why 375-625, it must just work somehow.) In the charts that follow the first column will be an increment of 25 on that scale from 625 down to 375, basically taking you down the visible rating scale in multiples of 10. To the right of that column will be two rows, representing the max and min score observed for a player with all possible attributes set to the value in the first column (all ratings at 625, or all at 375, or all at 500, etc., etc., in an imported draft file of 1000 players for each position group).

The corresponding figures should make you reasonably confident of what might be possible as a ceiling (or basement) for a draftee you're looking at. Some guys have combines that are only possible for a truly elite player, and if the player's other combines fall within the constraints in these charts, he's a very attractive prospect. In my notes about each position group I'll try to highlight combines or scores that don't seem to matter as much for that particular position based on the observation of real draft classes. I'll also try to sprinkle in other random observations.

QBs

Grade Adjst Dash Sole Strg Agil BJmp Pspec
625 8.4 9.6 4.3 55 22 6.92 120 99
4.4 5 4.62 28 14 7.8 107 82

600 7.9 9 4.3 55 22 6.94 120 99
3.8 4.3 4.71 28 12 7.8 106 76

575 7.9 9 4.33 55 21 6.99 120 98
4 4.6 4.79 28 10 7.8 103 71

550 7 8 4.47 50 17 7.14 117 92
2.8 3.2 4.84 28 10 7.8 102 67

525 7 8 4.47 49 17 7.12 117 93
3.5 4 4.84 28 10 7.8 102 68

500 6.7 7.7 4.55 47 15 7.22 114 87
3 3.4 4.84 20 10 8.01 102 67

475 6.4 7.3 4.59 47 14 7.24 114 85
2.7 3.1 4.84 18 10 8.15 102 67

450 6.2 7.1 4.61 46 14 7.12 114 83
2.5 2.8 4.84 15 10 8.17 102 67

425 5.8 6.6 4.84 45 10 7.17 108 70
2.2 2.5 5 17 7 8.16 95 56

400 5.9 6.7 4.85 42 9 7.33 107 69
1.5 1.7 5.13 10 6 8.34 91 49

375 3.6 4.1 5.02 41 7 7.33 101 58
1 1.1 5.15 8 6 8.4 90 47


I'll make another quick note here that persists throughout: the Grade and Adj columns may have some innacurracy at the very very far margins. When dealing with a combine skipper, things can get wacky in very rare instances. If your guy went to the combine, however, he's going to fit within those constraints. Another phenomenon to note throughout: look at the lower constraint for agility on quarterbacks ranging from 100/100 guys to 60/60 guys. It's 7.80 for all of them. That is not to imply that agility scores are normally distributed between the two constraints for each of the buckets between those ratings, they're not. It's just a cutoff point, meant to do a very good job of making our lives interesting when evaluating the vast majority of prospects. You will see a lot 4.84/28/10/7.8/102/70 QBs, you'll have to look for other cues to figure out if you've got a 60/60 starter or a 20/20 bum.

So having made those points, some analysis...

-Don't draft QBs with a bench lower than 10. As we'll discuss with some other criteria, some of these constraints are best used as rules of thumb and not hard boundaries. (Remember, we're talking about guys with across the board attribute ratings at a certain level. It's quite possible you can land effective guys with a different mix of certain ratings or something. Just be dang skeptical of them.) I use 10 bench as a hard boundary for QBs. It's really just not worth messing with guys below that in my opinion.

-Masking... (I'll make these points where I can). Players that are being heavily masked as QBs often have high bars in certain attributes or certain paired attributes. Masked QBs, especially quality guys, will almost always have high sense rush coupled with a high long passing bar or a pair of high bars in the following combinations: med/timing, short/acc, 3rd/two min, and deep/read. No combine guys are more likely to be masked in this way.

-It bears repeating, sense rush is a great indicator. It's very reassuring to see a high sense rush bar. Be skeptical of guys with a sense rush bar way out of whack with the rest of their bars.

-Forget about dash. It correlates to scramble frequency. You can use these boundaries to check against that bar if you want, but I wouldn't rule a guy out based on his dash.

-Look for outliers, guys with a bench >17 or bjump>117 should jump out at you anyway (because they'll likely have great other scores), but every once in awhile you can grab a steal.

-Be very wary of guys with even one score outside the constraints of a bucket you think he might be in (unless it's dash). It's simply a bad sign, and unless you really feel pressed to roll the dice, it's best to stay away.

[MalcPow]

RBs

Grade Adjst Dash Sole Strg Agil BJmp Pspec
625 8.2 8.7 4.29 43 27 6.82 132 40
4.4 4.7 4.55 18 19 7.13 120 26

600 8 8.5 4.29 43 27 6.82 132 40
4.5 4.8 4.6 18 17 7.22 117 22

575 7.6 8.1 4.3 43 27 6.83 132 40
4.1 4.3 4.64 18 16 7.31 117 17

550 7.4 7.9 4.41 42 22 6.98 129 37
3.8 4 4.65 12 15 7.35 115 17

525 7.2 7.7 4.39 43 22 6.99 128 37
3.5 3.7 4.65 15 15 7.35 114 17

500 6.8 7.2 4.45 42 20 7.07 127 33
3.5 3.7 4.65 13 15 7.35 114 17

475 6.1 6.5 4.48 35 20 7.1 126 32
3 3.2 4.65 10 15 7.35 114 11

450 6 6.4 4.48 38 19 7.13 124 32
3.3 3.5 4.75 10 15 7.35 114 9

425 5.8 6.2 4.5 37 15 7.35 120 30
2.7 2.8 4.8 8 11 7.58 108 7

400 5 5.3 4.65 34 14 7.37 119 20
1.9 2 4.85 8 9 7.77 103 4

375 4 4.2 4.71 32 11 7.6 113 16
1.5 1.6 4.85 8 9 7.8 102 4


-To elaborate somewhat further on the sense rush bar noted above... some bars (especially ones more intuitively associated with purely physical skills) seem to (almost?) never be masked. With RBs, breakaway/power inside/speed to the outside seem to be those kinds of ratings. If they're high and other bars are low, you might have something. I usually go looking for high speed to the outside guys in FA that have a high breakaway bar as well.

-RBs are kind of tough to be honest. I've seen good players with position scores and bjumps below the constraints here.

-Masking: I'll note this with WRs/TEs as well, but it seems the mask pairs for receving skills are GD/End and RR/SS. If you see some high bar pairs there and other reasons to be optimistic, it's a very good sign.

-Blitz pickup... there might be something here as well.

-I don't have RBs figured out really. Use these figures as a guide, look for some high bars, cross your fingers... it might even be worth interviewing them. :)

[MalcPow]

FBs

Grade Adjst Dash Sole Strg Agil BJmp Pspec
625 7.5 6.1 4.52 43 34 6.92 120 50
4.5 3.6 4.78 20 24 7.36 107 29

600 7.1 5.8 4.56 43 34 6.94 119 50
4 3.2 4.78 20 22 7.47 105 26

575 6.7 5.4 4.59 43 33 6.97 117 47
3.7 3 4.78 20 21 7.56 102 23

550 6.3 5.1 4.63 40 28 7.12 116 47
3.3 2.7 4.78 15 20 7.6 102 22

525 6.2 5 4.63 41 28 7.13 115 47
3.4 2.7 4.78 17 20 7.6 102 22

500 5.7 4.6 4.78 41 26 7.23 115 45
2.7 2.2 4.87 14 20 7.6 102 22

475 5.7 4.6 4.78 38 26 7.25 115 42
2.6 2.1 4.88 12 20 7.6 102 15

450 5.5 4.5 4.78 38 25 7.28 113 41
2.2 1.8 4.89 13 20 7.6 102 15

425 5.2 4.2 4.78 38 24 7.35 111 37
2.3 1.8 4.92 10 20 7.6 102 13

400 4.4 3.6 4.82 36 19 7.61 107 25
1.3 1 4.95 10 14 8.15 91 7

375 2.7 2.2 4.88 33 16 7.93 99 19
1 0.8 4.95 10 14 8.2 80 7


-Some of the same receiving attribute mask pairs noted above apply here.

-High blocking strength is a good sign, and again, it seems to be one of those physical stats that isn't really masked. (For whatever good it does.)

-Don't overthink the FBs dude. Use the numbers as a guide. Don't draft one in the first round unless you're vulturing for Subby.

[MalcPow]

TEs

Grade Adjst Dash Sole Strg Agil BJmp Pspec
625 7.9 6.9 4.44 47 36 7.12 128 55
4.8 4.2 4.68 21 22 7.53 110 39

600 7.5 6.6 4.44 47 36 7.12 128 55
4 3.5 4.72 21 22 7.62 107 36

575 7.3 6.4 4.47 46 36 7.16 126 53
3.9 3.4 4.76 21 22 7.72 106 32

550 6.8 5.9 4.58 45 36 7.31 122 51
3.8 3.3 4.78 18 20 7.75 102 32

525 6.5 5.7 4.58 42 35 7.32 123 51
3.3 2.9 4.78 15 20 7.75 102 32

500 6.2 5.4 4.62 42 31 7.41 118 48
2.9 2.5 4.78 15 16 7.75 102 32

475 5.9 5.1 4.63 41 31 7.42 118 47
2.9 2.5 4.78 13 16 7.75 102 23

450 5.7 5 4.65 38 31 7.46 117 47
2.8 2.4 4.78 13 15 7.75 102 16

425 5.5 4.8 4.67 38 30 7.51 115 45
2.5 2.2 4.78 13 15 7.75 102 15

400 4.7 4.1 4.79 37 27 7.76 107 35
1.5 1.3 4.99 10 15 8.42 91 8

375 3.9 3.4 4.91 33 22 8.17 101 29
1.3 1.1 5 10 15 8.5 90 7


-Same mask pairs for receiving skills noted above.

-Look at Big Play. This will be even more important with WRs, but a nice Big Play bar on a tight end is both fairly rare and a good sign. As with all this stuff, use it as a way to confirm the other things you're seeing.

-Blocking strength. Again, you can be fairly sure this bar isn't masked. I sometimes look at a really high strength bar with what might otherwise be a more middling bench combine (but within the high constraints) and make a guess that a guy's other more middling combines (within high constraints) might be indicative of high bars in those corresponding skills as well. Probably worth noting as another broad observation that a guy with great combines is usually pretty good in all of them and not a total stud in some and at the very bottom of the constraints in others.

-I don't get too excited on these guys. But another general note for both TEs and WRs seems to be that the agil score is not totally critical. You'll see quality players with pretty crappy agil scores, but not studs.

[MalcPow]

WRs

Grade Adjst Dash Sole Strg Agil BJmp Pspec
625 7.9 8.2 4.25 45 21 6.72 136 70
4.8 5 4.43 18 14 7.01 122 52

600 7.7 8 4.25 44 21 6.72 136 70
4.1 4.3 4.46 18 13 7.08 119 47

575 7.4 7.7 4.26 45 20 6.74 134 69
3.4 3.5 4.49 18 11 7.15 117 42

550 6.8 7.1 4.37 45 16 6.87 133 67
3.4 3.5 4.51 15 11 7.2 114 42

525 6.6 6.9 4.37 44 16 6.88 132 65
3.4 3.5 4.51 14 11 7.2 114 42

500 6.4 6.7 4.4 41 15 6.94 130 60
3.1 3.2 4.51 10 11 7.2 114 42

475 6.2 6.5 4.41 42 14 6.99 127 60
2.4 2.5 4.51 9 11 7.2 114 33

450 5.8 6 4.42 40 14 7.01 126 59
2.3 2.4 4.51 10 11 7.2 114 31

425 5.5 5.7 4.51 39 11 7.2 120 57
2.3 2.4 4.66 9 7 7.4 108 23

400 4.4 4.6 4.52 35 10 7.22 119 45
1.6 1.6 4.78 7 5 7.55 103 18

375 3.7 3.8 4.67 31 7 7.42 112 37
1.2 1.2 4.8 7 5 7.6 102 17


-I think the numbers will be pretty helpful here. My general opinion, and I think it's shared by many, is that dash is king. This should give you a sense of what a truly elite dash might be though.

-Big Play. It's a great check. You can have some pretty good receivers with low big play, but you'll also note they usually had a dash score within the constraints commensurate with their overall talent.

-Basically, don't draft a guy with a dash over 4.51.

-BJump is just return skills. I'd only use these numbers to check those bars if you're looking for a return guy.

-Masking. Same receiving pairs noted above. Basically you're looking for GD/End and RR/ST coupled with a high Big Play. Adjst, 3rd, Courage, and Avoid can all be single high bars along with a high Big Play as well. Look for these patterns and use other data to draw conclusions.

-I've seen some solid guys with crappy agil scores. A great agil score (and the corresponding getting downfield bar) seems to have some performance benefit though, so let your own personal preferences rule there.

-Don't fall in love with >15 bench guys. I do it regularly, but it's not clear to me it's really all that sound.

[MalcPow]

Ts

Grade Adjst Dash Sole Strg Agil BJmp
625 8 8.8 4.86 47 43 7.32 114
4.4 4.8 5.14 9 29 7.64 98

600 7.9 8.7 4.86 47 43 7.32 114
4.3 4.7 5.2 9 28 7.71 94

575 7.4 8.2 4.88 47 43 7.36 112
3.8 4.2 5.25 9 28 7.78 93

550 7 7.7 5.01 47 42 7.48 110
3.5 3.8 5.27 9 24 7.8 90

525 6.8 7.5 5.01 47 43 7.49 110
3.1 3.4 5.27 9 25 7.8 90

500 6.3 6.9 5.07 47 38 7.57 106
3.2 3.5 5.27 9 22 7.8 90

475 6.2 6.8 5.08 47 38 7.57 105
3.2 3.5 5.27 9 20 7.8 90

450 6 6.6 5.1 47 37 7.59 105
2.9 3.2 5.27 9 19 7.8 90

425 5.7 6.3 5.13 47 37 7.62 104
2.5 2.7 5.27 9 19 7.8 90

400 4.7 5.2 5.28 47 34 7.81 95
1.6 1.7 5.56 9 19 8.35 81

375 3.7 4.1 5.46 47 28 8.13 90
1.3 1.4 5.6 9 19 8.4 80


-Blocking strength is one of those not really masked bars. Look for a strong man to keep you warm.

-Masking. Common mask seems to be a single high blocking strength bar with lower run, pass, and end bars. Another one seems to be all bars except pass blocking high. Again, look for this stuff and use other data to draw conclusions.

-Look for the outliers in dash and agil. I keep an eye out at all times for a sub 5 dash and an agil in the 7.4s. Usually these guys are obvious studs, sometimes you get a steal.

[MalcPow]

Gs

Grade Adjst Dash Sole Strg Agil BJmp
625 8.2 7.8 4.85 47 43 7.42 110
4.5 4.3 5.14 11 28 7.74 94

600 8.1 7.7 4.85 47 43 7.43 110
4.5 4.3 5.18 11 28 7.8 92

575 7.9 7.5 4.88 47 43 7.44 108
3.8 3.6 5.25 11 27 7.88 89

550 7.3 7 5 47 41 7.58 107
3.8 3.6 5.27 11 25 7.9 88

525 7.1 6.8 5.01 47 42 7.59 107
3.4 3.2 5.27 11 24 7.9 88

500 6.8 6.5 5.06 47 41 7.65 103
3.4 3.2 5.27 11 21 7.9 88

475 6.5 6.2 5.07 47 38 7.66 103
3.2 3 5.27 11 21 7.9 88

450 6.4 6.1 5.1 47 35 7.69 102
3 2.8 5.27 11 21 7.9 88

425 5.9 5.6 5.13 47 35 7.73 100
2.8 2.6 5.27 11 21 7.9 88

400 5.1 4.8 5.28 47 33 7.92 92
2 1.9 5.48 11 21 8.45 79


-Basically the same stuff as the Ts.

-Apparently I didn't grab the scores for the 375 guys. You'll likely get over it.

[MalcPow]

Cs

Grade Adjst Dash Sole Strg Agil BJmp
625 7.5 6.5 4.87 49 39 7.52 110
4.2 3.6 5.17 13 26 7.84 95

600 7.3 6.3 4.87 49 39 7.52 110
4.1 3.5 5.23 13 25 7.91 94

575 6.8 5.9 4.9 49 39 7.54 109
3.5 3 5.29 13 25 7.98 91

550 6.5 5.6 5.03 49 39 7.68 106
3 2.6 5.31 13 21 8 88


-I'm not that into the Cs. Apologies. Probably best to stay away if a guy's outside these numbers.

-And yeah, same masking stuff as Ts/Gs.

[MalcPow]

P/Ks

-YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE GETTING ALL MY SECRETS???!!!1!!11

[MalcPow]

DEs

Grade Adjst Dash Sole Strg Agil BJmp
625 8.2 9.1 4.53 46 40 6.92 130
5.1 5.6 4.76 21 28 7.36 115

600 8.1 8.9 4.53 46 40 6.92 130
4.8 5.3 4.8 18 28 7.47 110

575 7.8 8.6 4.55 45 40 6.98 129
4.6 5.1 4.84 15 27 7.56 109

550 6.9 7.6 4.66 43 36 7.12 126
4.3 4.7 4.85 13 27 7.6 106

525 7 7.7 4.67 45 37 7.14 124
3.9 4.3 4.85 12 26 7.6 106

500 6.5 7.2 4.7 44 33 7.23 122
3.2 3.5 4.85 9 21 7.6 106

475 6.5 7.2 4.71 40 33 7.24 121
3.1 3.4 4.85 10 21 7.6 106

450 6.1 6.7 4.73 41 33 7.28 120
3.2 3.5 4.85 9 19 7.6 106

425 5.8 6.4 4.75 41 32 7.33 118
2.7 2.9 4.85 9 18 7.6 106

400 4.7 5.2 4.86 40 31 7.61 111
2 2.2 5.12 9 18 8.14 95

375 3.8 4.2 5.02 38 27 7.94 104
1.6 1.7 5.15 9 18 8.2 94


-I've started looking for agil outliers lately and have had some real success. Every few draft classes you'll see a <7.12 guy who isn't a clear stud.

-Masking. Rush strength and punishing hitter seem to be the physical skills that are seldom masked. Look for a guy with big bars in both and check the other data points. Another common mask seems to be all high bars and a low PR Tech bar.

-There are some decent guys with dash scores slower than the constraints. Not studs, but useful guys.

-Bjump correlates with endurance. It seems you can get some good guys with low bjump scores. But that's another one where I look for a big time outlier score as a stud sign.

[MalcPow]

DTs

Grade Adjst Dash Sole Strg Agil BJmp
625 8.3 9 4.8 44 43 7.12 120
5 5.4 5 20 29 7.55 106

600 8.2 8.9 4.8 44 43 7.12 120
5.2 5.6 5.03 14 29 7.67 102

575 7.9 8.6 4.81 44 42 7.15 118
4.5 4.9 5.06 15 28 7.76 100

550 7.4 8 4.92 44 40 7.32 115
4 4.3 5.07 12 28 7.8 100

525 7.3 7.9 4.92 42 38 7.34 113
4 4.3 5.07 11 26 7.8 99

500 6.6 7.1 4.96 40 37 7.43 112
3.4 3.7 5.07 8 24 7.8 98

475 6.5 7 4.96 43 36 7.44 112
3.2 3.4 5.07 9 23 7.8 98

450 6.3 6.8 4.97 44 36 7.49 110
3.2 3.4 5.07 9 22 7.8 98

425 6 6.5 5 37 34 7.54 111
2.9 3.1 5.07 8 21 7.8 98

400 5.4 5.8 5.08 37 34 7.81 103
2.1 2.2 5.38 8 21 8.44 80

375 3.4 3.7 5.26 35 28 8.19 90
1.7 1.8 5.4 8 21 8.5 78


-Basically all the DE points apply, just look to the DT numbers above.

[MalcPow]

ILBs

Grade Adjst Dash Sole Strg Agil BJmp Pspec
625 7.8 7.6 4.52 51 35 7.07 124 50
4.1 4 4.76 24 22 7.42 109 36

600 7.6 7.4 4.53 51 35 7.07 124 50
3.6 3.5 4.81 21 21 7.5 106 33

575 7.3 7.1 4.53 50 35 7.11 123 48
3.6 3.5 4.85 17 21 7.57 104 29

550 6.7 6.5 4.65 51 34 7.24 121 46
3.5 3.4 4.86 16 20 7.6 104 27

525 6.5 6.3 4.66 51 33 7.25 122 44
3 2.9 4.86 17 20 7.6 104 27

500 6.1 5.9 4.7 46 29 7.33 119 41
2.5 2.4 4.86 15 17 7.6 104 27

475 6.2 6 4.71 47 29 7.33 119 42
2.8 2.7 4.86 14 15 7.6 100 27

450 5.8 5.6 4.72 47 28 7.37 116 40
2.6 2.5 4.86 13 14 7.6 97 27

425 5.6 5.4 4.75 44 27 7.4 115 38
2.3 2.2 4.86 13 14 7.6 94 27

400 5 4.9 4.87 43 25 7.61 110 29
1.6 1.5 5.04 13 14 8.06 91 9

375 3.2 3.1 4.98 39 21 7.89 107 18
1.2 1.1 5.06 13 14 8.1 90 7


-Seems like dash can be slower than the constraints, but I'd still look to that score for stud material.

-The Pos score is a little wacky. You'll never see an actual draft class guy with a 50, because you'll never see an LB with maxed ratings in Man and Zone coverage, Interceptions, stuff like that. (LBs max at ~75ish or something there.) You also won't see a ton of guys over that magic 27 bottom constraint, even clearly good players come in beneath there sometimes. So take it for what it's worth. I basically just assume that a guy a less than 27 pos score probably won't be much use as a coverage guy, but he'll still have some value.

-Rush strength and punishing hitter. Look for those high bars and other data points for some good guys.

[MalcPow]

OLBs

Grade Adjst Dash Sole Strg Agil BJmp Pspec
625 7.8 7.5 4.4 49 30 6.92 128 50
4.1 3.9 4.62 22 19 7.24 113 35

600 7.7 7.4 4.4 49 30 6.92 128 50
4.1 3.9 4.66 19 18 7.31 110 31

575 7.1 6.8 4.43 49 30 6.95 128 47
3.8 3.6 4.7 18 18 7.38 109 28

550 6.8 6.5 4.53 49 26 7.08 127 45
3.4 3.2 4.71 15 18 7.4 108 27

525 6.6 6.4 4.54 49 26 7.09 125 43
3.4 3.2 4.71 14 16 7.4 108 27

500 6.2 6 4.57 48 25 7.16 123 42
3.2 3.1 4.71 13 13 7.4 108 27

475 5.8 5.6 4.58 44 24 7.16 123 42
3 2.9 4.71 12 12 7.4 103 27

450 5.7 5.5 4.59 42 24 7.19 123 39
2.5 2.4 4.71 11 11 7.4 100 27

425 5.5 5.3 4.62 43 23 7.23 121 38
2.2 2.1 4.71 11 10 7.4 98 27

400 5.3 5.1 4.72 42 20 7.41 114 27
1.8 1.7 4.93 11 10 7.77 94 9

375 3 2.9 4.85 42 18 7.62 108 18
1.2 1.1 4.95 11 10 7.8 94 7


-Same as the ILBs. Same wackiness with pos scores as well.

-Although I'm a bit more interested in dash here.

[MalcPow]

CBs

Grade Adjst Dash Sole Strg Agil BJmp Pspec
625 8.4 8.7 4.27 46 21 6.72 136 60
4.8 4.9 4.45 19 13 7.04 121 45

600 8.1 8.4 4.27 46 21 6.73 136 60
4.7 4.8 4.49 15 12 7.11 118 42

575 7.7 8 4.29 46 21 6.74 134 58
4.4 4.5 4.51 14 12 7.17 115 38

550 7.6 7.9 4.39 45 19 6.88 130 55
3.5 3.6 4.52 10 12 7.2 115 37

525 7.2 7.4 4.39 45 18 6.89 131 55
3.4 3.5 4.52 11 11 7.2 114 37

500 6.6 6.8 4.42 45 18 6.95 129 52
3.4 3.5 4.52 12 8 7.2 114 37

475 6.5 6.7 4.42 44 16 6.97 128 52
3.2 3.3 4.52 9 7 7.2 114 37

450 6.5 6.7 4.43 441 16 6.99 128 49
3 3.1 4.52 9 7 7.2 114 37

425 5.9 6.1 4.45 40 15 7.03 127 48
3 3.1 4.52 9 6 7.2 114 37

400 5.3 5.5 4.53 37 15 7.21 119 39
1.9 1.9 4.7 9 6 7.57 105 14

375 3.7 3.8 4.63 39 12 7.42 113 25
1.7 1.7 4.72 9 6 7.6 102 12


-Masking. Ok, I forgot to mention this with the LBs, but this applies to them as well, paired masks for coverages appear to be Man/End and Zone/ST. Punishing Hitter also seems to be one of those physical high bars. I look for guys with a high Pun and Int bar, or high Pun and one of those mask pairs.

-Agil seems to be one of those scores that can be crappy for a quality guy, but not a stud.

-Bjump is again just return skills, so don't pay much mind.

-I'm partial to the fast guys, but really the guys with the knockout dash scores don't come along that often. And when they do, they're megastud guys at the top of a draft.

-So look for the high punishing guys with strong other data points.

[MalcPow]

Ss

Grade Adjst Dash Sole Strg Agil BJmp Pspec
625 7.5 7.1 4.3 53 27 6.82 132 60
3.7 3.5 4.51 26 17 7.17 118 45

600 7.5 7.1 4.3 53 27 6.82 132 60
3.6 3.4 4.54 23 15 7.25 114 42

575 6.9 6.5 4.31 53 27 6.94 130 58
3.2 3 4.58 18 15 7.32 113 39

550 6.7 6.3 4.42 53 27 6.99 127 56
2.8 2.6 4.59 16 15 7.35 110 37

525 6.2 5.8 4.43 53 22 7 125 55
2.6 2.4 4.59 17 15 7.35 111 37

500 5.9 5.6 4.46 53 22 7.08 125 51
2.4 2.2 4.59 15 12 7.35 110 37

475 5.7 5.4 4.47 48 21 7.09 124 50
2.1 1.9 4.59 14 10 7.35 110 37

450 5.6 5.3 4.48 46 21 7.11 124 50
2.2 2 4.59 12 10 7.35 110 37

425 5.3 5 4.5 47 19 7.16 122 49
1.9 1.8 4.59 12 9 7.35 110 37

400 4.9 4.6 4.6 45 19 7.36 115 38
1.3 1.2 4.79 12 9 7.76 95 15

375 2.8 2.6 4.72 44 15 7.61 105 25
0.9 0.8 4.81 12 9 7.8 94 12


-Same points as the CBs basically.

-Look for the guys who have weights at or below 207. A weight of 191 transfers perfectly to CB. Between 191 and 207 you can usually move a guy at 90% of his ratings and it's usually worth it.

[MalcPow]

So that's it. I hope people find this stuff useful. If you have questions, ask away. I'll be upfront that I'm not around nearly as often as I used to be, but I'll try to be helpful if I can.

[Yoda]

Wow... that's great stuff MalcPow.

It's greatly appreciated.

But, just want to be sure I am reading this correctly.

Using QB's for example- you can have a top QB (625) that's rated in the draft as a 4.4?

[3ric]

Wow... that's great stuff MalcPow.

It's greatly appreciated.

But, just want to be sure I am reading this correctly.

Using QB's for example- you can have a top QB (625) that's rated in the draft as a 4.4?

If I get what MP is doing with this experiment, the only reason there's a QB in the file who's rated at 4.4, is because every player in the file is rated at 625 (is that current or future rating?). In a normal file, that player likely would be 8.5-9.0, I guess. That's relative to the competition.

[MalcPow]

If I get what MP is doing with this experiment, the only reason there's a QB in the file who's rated at 4.4, is because every player in the file is rated at 625 (is that current or future rating?). In a normal file, that player likely would be 8.5-9.0, I guess. That's relative to the competition.

Actually no, but that's what I would have assumed as well. You can see a 100/100 quarterback with a 4.4 grade. The guys on the lower bounds of the Grade/Adj spectrum are almost always combine skippers though. I did a little extra digging with QBs one time, I think the worst 625 QB with combines had a 5.5 Grade.

As another note though, the guys at the edges of these boundaries are pretty rare. The likelihood of getting a 625 across the board QB in a random draft class is pretty low. This study looked at a 1000 guys like that and had one blip at that 4.4 grade and probably a small handful of guys spread out over what was clearly the far tail of the distribution. Keep that in mind as you get dizzy over some QB with a grade in the 4s and some high bars (which I manage to do pretty often).

[Celeval]

If I get what MP is doing with this experiment, the only reason there's a QB in the file who's rated at 4.4, is because every player in the file is rated at 625 (is that current or future rating?). In a normal file, that player likely would be 8.5-9.0, I guess. That's relative to the competition.

I don't think there's any grading relative to the competition there. In that case, it'd be a super-creeper QB with no combines.

[gstelmack]

Thanks for sharing MalcPow. I'll certainly be digesting this.

[wade moore]

Amazing information - thank you MP!

[MalcPow]

Probably worth another note here along the lines of combine skippers being the really low graded guys in the stud buckets. As you move down into the 30/30 range, the top of the Grade spectrum becomes combine skippers. So don't take a no combine guy as a sure sign of being underrated or anything. They simply become good gambles as you get down into the poorer portions of a draft class if they have other good signs.

[Draft Dodger]

amazing stuff

[Jughead Spock]

Is this as to what you can expect once they've signed, or TC, or at their fullest potential?

As a f'rinstance, my 2nd year QB combines looked like this -

29 4.84 13 7.61 110 66

Which would put him between 450 and 550, but for his 66 PosDrill. Came in at 20/48, currently 41/49 3 weeks into season 2. Most likely he's a 500, with just a one-point variance on the PosDrill?

[MalcPow]

Is this as to what you can expect once they've signed, or TC, or at their fullest potential?

As a f'rinstance, my 2nd year QB combines looked like this -

29 4.84 13 7.61 110 66

Which would put him between 450 and 550, but for his 66 PosDrill. Came in at 20/48, currently 41/49 3 weeks into season 2. Most likely he's a 500, with just a one-point variance on the PosDrill?

At their fullest potential. And the "one point variance in the PosDrill" would be a big concern for me when the data seems to imply there's a pretty hard boundary at 67/68 for quality guys. But hey, this stuff is mostly just food for thought. I wouldn't go crazy over miniscule differences at the margins. But I also wouldn't expect your guy to creep to 80/80 or anything.

[Jughead Spock]

yeah, just throwing him out for discussion. There's also the matter of volatility (his is 65), so his TC this year (+7/+6) might be throwing everything out of whack. But the 66 PD was odd.

[MalcPow]

Thanks for sharing MalcPow. I'll certainly be digesting this.

Oh, and if there's some way to incorporate this information into Analyzer... um, I would like you a lot. :D

[gstelmack]

Oh, and if there's some way to incorporate this information into Analyzer... um, I would like you a lot. :D

Well, one way would be to use your numbers and give a range of possible ratings (like 450-550 or something). Another is marking thresholds on the combines.

I'm not real happy right now with the values used by Analyzer for average / standard deviation to generates scores and blue/green markers. I think I need to separate the number for evaluation from the highlighted values. I switched from calced average/stddev to something based on red/blue/black/green bar ranges which works better for highlighting but worse for calcs and I need to re-evaluate that. These numbers may fit into that.

I may also be able to mark masked guys based on the bar info you provide above.

I'm always open to detailed suggestions on what to do with new data...

[flere-imsaho]

Wow. This is incredible stuff. :D

[MIJB#19]

-Look at Big Play. This will be even more important with WRs, but a nice Big Play bar on a tight end is both fairly rare and a good sign. As with all this stuff, use it as a way to confirm the other things you're seeing.It's rare because the game seems to tone down the Big-Play skill by roughly 20-25 rating points in game.

Just like what is mentioned with LBs and the M2M and Zone defense skills.

[MalcPow]

It's rare because the game seems to tone down the Big-Play skill by roughly 20-25 rating points in game.

Just like what is mentioned with LBs and the M2M and Zone defense skills.

Yep, nice being a relative thing here. An actual drafted TE with a Big Play greater than 60 is worth looking at as somebody pretty intriguing. You'll see the occasional absurd guy with a 4.5something dash get a very high Big Play bar (and the initial roster TEs have a much higher average Big Play bar than a mature universe of drafted players will have), but you shouldn't expect to see maxed Big Play bars on your potential TE draftees.

[cuervo72]

Yep, nice being a relative thing here. An actual drafted TE with a Big Play greater than 60 is worth looking at as somebody pretty intriguing. You'll see the occasional absurd guy with a 4.5something dash get a very high Big Play bar (and the initial roster TEs have a much higher average Big Play bar than a mature universe of drafted players will have), but you shouldn't expect to see maxed Big Play bars on your potential TE draftees.

For reference: fof-IHOF.com : Ratings Search (http://www.fof-ihof.com/league/ratingsearch.php?p=TE&r=AX&f=F&s=D&t=ALL&e1=1&e2=2)

(oh hey look - the highest 2nd year guy is with Tucker ;) )

Completely with you on noodle-armed QB. Though even with this info, I don't know what to make of Heath Day, unless his drill and jump should have been signs.

[cyril]

noob question: what are "masked pairs"?

[MalcPow]

noob question: what are "masked pairs"?

Not really a noob question, it's basically something I'm using for the first time in this thread. If I describe a pair of bars as a masked pair, like medium passing and timing, it essentially means they move together in masking situations. That can mean they're both lower than they should be (a sign when all other indicators point to the high bars being accurate), or it can mean that they are high together when all other bars other than some of the physical non-masked bars are low (and other indicators seem to imply the player might be pretty good).

In many cases you will see patterns in how these bar pairs move together, that's all it's meant to capture. Using other information you can guess at whether it means much, but you should keep an eye out for the patterns.

[rjp7424]

-Masking: I'll note this with WRs/TEs as well, but it seems the mask pairs for receving skills are GD/End and RR/SS.
what does SS stand for?

[cyril]

what's the implication once you think you've discovered a masked pair?

a) it means other attributes are probably masked too.
b) it means other attributes are probably not masked since only a few attributes could be masked.
c) there's no correlationship between a masked pair and whether other attributes are masked or not.
d) none of the above, pls explain?

also, do masked pairs have to have very similiar values to be considered as such? ie. two bars both pointing at 80% range is a masked pair, whereas one bar at 90% and one at 70% is not?

[MalcPow]

-Masking: I'll note this with WRs/TEs as well, but it seems the mask pairs for receving skills are GD/End and RR/SS.
what does SS stand for?

Sorry, should be ST for Special Teams.

[MalcPow]

what's the implication once you think you've discovered a masked pair?

a) it means other attributes are probably masked too.
b) it means other attributes are probably not masked since only a few attributes could be masked.
c) there's no correlationship between a masked pair and whether other attributes are masked or not.
d) none of the above, pls explain?

also, do masked pairs have to have very similiar values to be considered as such? ie. two bars both pointing at 80% range is a masked pair, whereas one bar at 90% and one at 70% is not?

It most often means that pair of bars will be wildly out of line with the other bars. Once you spot that, look to the combine data to take a guess at whether it means the player looks better or worse than you'd expect from the majority of his bars (which will quite often be distributed pretty evenly).

This isn't some perfect solution for every guy. It's most effective at helping you discover the solid number of draftees that have a very obvious bar pattern linked to these masked pairs. The blue bars can be pretty imprecise at times, so don't get caught up on them being exact just look for the general pattern.

[nickelback]

Probably a stupid question but I'll ask anyway. What happens when you have a player with combines that fall in say the 600 type player range but two of them fall in like the 425-450 range. Would you want to stay away from this type of player despite four other strong combines?

[MalcPow]

Probably a stupid question but I'll ask anyway. What happens when you have a player with combines that fall in say the 600 type player range but two of them fall in like the 425-450 range. Would you want to stay away from this type of player despite four other strong combines?

It depends. If it were a WR and the two low combines were Sole and BJump, I wouldn't care that much. If the two low ones were Dash and Pos, I'd care a lot.

All of this is meant to be food for thought to help you make "better" decisions. Very little here is going to offer you absolute certainty on anything. Take it as greater context for how you look at these scores. I know I would've assumed a 4.45 was a really great 40 time for a WR before looking at this stuff (as really there aren't more than a few guys better than that in most draft classes), but this data gives me a better sense of where that fits. It could be great, it could be pretty pedestrian, and I need to really look at other things. A 4.31 though? Now I know that's damn fast and if a guy has solid other combines I "know" I'm looking at a very good player.

I don't want to over or understate the value of this stuff. With some guys it is going to help you a ton. With many others it's just going to be another indicator.

[Subby]

I guess this makes up for all of the cheeting you have done.

[MalcPow]

I guess this makes up for all of the cheeting you have done.

Does this mean we can me a masked pair again?

[RedKingGold]

Does this mean we can me a masked pair again?

ONLY IF YOU LEARN HOW TO POST WITHOUT TPYOS!

[TheMeat]

This is super-super awesome, thanks MP. I'm at that stage where I'm trying to really get into analyzing rookies, needless to say this is vital in the FOWL, and just started using draft analyzer a couple months back. This is a very nice compendium of knowledge regarding combine scores. Top notch.

Most interestingly to me it explains some masking details that I had noticed but now make more sense like the fact that almost every draft class will hold one or more LB with a great AGL combine but seemingly 0 Rush Def, I've known for awhile that these guys are studs but now I can see how it applies to other scores/positions.

It makes me think of my RB Scottie Sturm in the PFL, I drafted him just because he looked odd, had full bars in Breakaway and Outside Speed but rock bottom in others. He has climbed about 15 points so far and I feel so smart for scooping him up in the third round.

[Ben E Lou]

For those who don't understand what a "masked pair" means (I've always used the term "bar signature," but "masked pair" is more precise,) here's a perfect example. Behold, CB Alonzo Cappe in FOWL. First, his reds and blues:

http://www.fof-ihof.com/upload/Ben%20E%20Lou/fowldraftclass.png


...and the bars. Note the Zone/ST pair.

http://www.fof-ihof.com/upload/Ben%20E%20Lou/maskedpair.png

Now in this particular case, it's obvious from his combines that he's a stud, without MP's excellent data. But it's such a big mask here that it was worth noting.

[Chubby]

I'll let you know tomorrow how useful this was ;)

[Sef0r]

Guess I will be targetting CB Alonzo in FOWL then...lets see, 3 years for $70 mil? I think that will land him.

[nickelback]

So is the 625-375 for each rating or is it for the overall player rating?

[TheMeat]

Guess I will be targetting CB Alonzo in FOWL then...lets see, 3 years for $70 mil? I think that will land him.

Well I got him for 3 yrs at the bargain price of 5mil per season, so we'll see. Unless this is some big joke at my expense I'll be very happy with that price.

:withstupid:

[Firefly]

Masked pairs... so that's what Ben was talking about when he said he could spot a good player by the pattern of his bars. I always wondered about that.

Thanks Malcpow, very much appreciated.

[TheMeat]

-The Pos score is a little wacky. You'll never see an actual draft class guy with a 50, because you'll never see an LB with maxed ratings in Man and Zone coverage, Interceptions, stuff like that. (LBs max at ~75ish or something there.) You also won't see a ton of guys over that magic 27 bottom constraint, even clearly good players come in beneath there sometimes. So take it for what it's worth. I basically just assume that a guy a less than 27 pos score probably won't be much use as a coverage guy, but he'll still have some value.



Not tryin to be a smartypants, just wanted to show off, since it made me think of a player I have on one of my MP teams, the best coverage LB I have ever seen. Good thing I had my draft analyzer file saved because I had forgotten his combines. He had a Position Drill score of 38. Behold...

[RedKingGold]

That is what we would call an anamoly.

I'm sure he's flying through the Matrix right now, fighting with the Smiths.

[Firefly]

That is what we would call an anamoly.

I'm sure he's flying through the Matrix right now, fighting with the Smiths.

And I would call it an anomaly. But that's just me :)

[RedKingGold]

Why I can't spell right is mindbottling.

[flair1234]

Question..

Say a general player has strong combines that place him in the higher baskets... but then one dismal score that does not qualify.

For instance ( I am making this up) Lets say a WR with a 4.38-7-6.79-11.5-48

Would his 7 in bench doom him to being a 425 type player? Even though his speed says he should be a 575 type?

[flair1234]

How about this guy (Actual Case)

RDE:

SOLE: 21
40: 4.9
Bench: 22
Agil: 7.00
BRD: 105

According to the Chart his agility should make him a 550 player. However his 40 time says likely 400.

I think I misunderstanding the methodology you used.

[nickelback]

So does a player have to have the high physical bars to be masked? I've drafted guys within the combines of a 500-550 type player but with hardly any bars. They never pan out.

[TheMeat]

Correct me if I'm wrong but these tests are done with a draft file where players are given certain ratings across the board. So when he's got a 575 player that means he's manually set all that players ratings to 575. In real draft files you'll get players that have some scores at 675 and some scores at 375 for example. This is an exercise using pre-determined players to show what combine ranges they will have with thiose scores, so if a WR for example has an outstanding 40 time, it does not mean he will be highly rated in all categories, or even that he'll be highly rated overall. It just means that he'll have a high "Big Play Receiving" rating because that is what the 40 time is correlated to.

[TheMeat]

For those who don't understand what a "masked pair" means (I've always used the term "bar signature," but "masked pair" is more precise,) here's a perfect example. Behold, CB Alonzo Cappe in FOWL. First, his reds and blues:

http://www.fof-ihof.com/upload/Ben%20E%20Lou/fowldraftclass.png


...and the bars. Note the Zone/ST pair.

http://www.fof-ihof.com/upload/Ben%20E%20Lou/maskedpair.png

Now in this particular case, it's obvious from his combines that he's a stud, without MP's excellent data. But it's such a big mask here that it was worth noting.

Ok, so.... Kappe is a piece of turd :)

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/TheSwapMeat/Kappe.jpg


He's got full xp at RCB and this is what he looks like. He maxxed at 33/33. You can see by his stats there he sucked balls as my nickleback this year. Got an innordinate amount of tackles but NBs usually do. Allowed 57 caught in 557 passing plays.

So I'm wondering what happened? At the beginning of the season he was a 31/40 or something. Just a bum player that scored good combines and got rated highly? Volatility drop? I feel like I'm getting better at evaluating players, especially from playing in the FOWL but this really surprised me.

[Hammer]

What did his ratings do in camp, did they go up or down? It would be useful to have a timeline of his ratings, from the moment he was on your roster, and then after camp.

On face value, it really looks like a random bust happened in camp. But I would need futher information to make that judgement.

The other possibility is, presuming this is the end of year 1, he is heavily masked. I had a TE recently who maxed out far short of his potential. He has continued to jump in ratings quickly and consistently, past that original potential. It seems odd though, that his current developed so little.

With more information, I'm sure we can work this guy out.

[Ben E Lou]

Kappe went +5 in his rookie camp, +3 in FA1:1 of his second season, and N/C in his second year TC. I'm guessing heavy masking. Four reds and a blue...

[QuikSand]

Hmm, Kappe does seem like a curious case. He had a +5/+5 rookie camp to move to 21/36 -- very good, through maybe less than expected, given the starting point and those massive combines.

I think I'd agree that the stats may be lying. Stats for the guy stuck at nickelback are pretty much useless in many defenses, it's a bug.

[Julio Riddols]

Isn't the second year a known "hesitation year" in a lot of players development cycles?

I seem to see more stalls there followed by gains in subsequent years.. Typically with players just like Kappe. Typically, these guys who gain positional experience really fast but do not see those gains reflected by ratings are the guys that continue to improve steadily for the next 6 or 7 seasons in most cases from my experience. (not backed by any evidence, just observation)

[TheMeat]

So perhaps his bars are actually much higher but masked still? I see. I was under the impression that when a player hit full XP everything was unmasked. I'm stuck with him for another season because his bonus 4mil so all I can do is keep an eye on him. I'm very hesitant to start him even as just a NB next year unless he shows me some improvement. And then I'll likely keep him on as a cheap dimeback or something because with those combines I just can't give up on him. I can't quit you Alonzo Kappe.

I know that NB stats are a whole different story than a starting CB, I use a lot of nickle for all my teams and closely watch the performance of my various NBs so I know the range of performance to expect and his was far below usual. I realize however that there are many factors there, including the fact that I'm in a div with two very good passing teams and I'm not sure how Pdefs are determined, this could just be a bad year for dice rolls, etc, etc, but 6 Pdef and 57 caught in 557 plays still makes me wince.

[ddrrbb]

I drafted an FS in an SP game that suffered similar results. He was a combine warrior FS, who showed signs of unmasking for a bit (played him FT with a mentor for 2 seasons), then decided to just top off at 24/24. Maybe, certain combines need confirmation by bars or something, but I'll keep checking more drafts when time permits.

[TheMeat]

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/TheSwapMeat/kappe-1.jpg


Here's an update on Kappe, he went froma 33/33 to a 38/38 but I also got a new scout in the meantime so it's hard to say what's going on.

[Julio Riddols]

He'll continue improving like this for 6-8 years I bet. May not change at all in TC or reg. season, but the off season progression should be consistent. He probably winds up around 50-60 OVR.

Of course this is all based on previous observations.

[Hammer]

Here is a guy that seems to go against the grain somewhat. I was quite excited to see him appear half a dozen spots down the WR list. Looking at his amazing dash and agility I wondered if his intelligence would come back close to 0, and with a V/U tag. It seems he isn't actually an absolute stud afterall, yet has the dash and agility of a 625 player.

While it appears GD will likely max, RR doesn't appear likely to pass 25. Add to that the endurance bar and he has some serious concerns.

Any thoughts from the draft gurus?


http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii258/Togarth/Clipboard02-6.jpg

[Sef0r]

This is only my opinion but that player scares me.
If I had a chance to draft him I would probably go for someone else.
Everything looks great except 2 things for me, his endurance (which should match his getting downfield) and his development being at 18%.
I would actually accept him at 18% if his endurance was to match up with his getting downfield rating.

[WelshWizard]

This guy intrigues me too Nick. His combine is almost identical to Chung who has the bars and the Endurance bar to go with his combine. I am thinking there is some serious masking going on here. Both Craigheads GD and BP bars are going to max out with those combines.

[Hammer]

Low RR and endurance is an awful combination though. His endurance might be masked, but how can you be sure.

[jeffrey]

My estimates have his GD headed for high 90s and courage, adjust, and AD coming up. The initial and estimated bars difference implies VU, though. I would guess either the unestimated bars (end, ST, 3D) are coming down to compensate or your scout was off.

http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu287/nideic/Picture1-1.png

The position score gets arbitrarily divvied up by my algorithm between adjust to ball and avoid drops, by the way.

[nouvelle_vague]

2 questions:

what bar is SS? refering to masked pair of RR/SS for WRs/RBs.

How high is high when looking at the bars? 75?

thanks

[OldSchool]

Regarding the "27 position score" thing that I've seen referenced a few times... Am I correct in assuming that except for those positions where its indicated to not apply, I should avoid players with a position score lower than that?

Also, for masked pairs, that means that the pair of attributes in question will appear out of whack given the relevant combine scores, right?

[MalcPow]

Regarding the "27 position score" thing that I've seen referenced a few times... Am I correct in assuming that except for those positions where its indicated to not apply, I should avoid players with a position score lower than that?

Also, for masked pairs, that means that the pair of attributes in question will appear out of whack given the relevant combine scores, right?

On the 27 pos score, it only applies to linebackers. Other positions will have their own breakpoints if you look at the data.

And yes, masked pairs will appear out of whack together.

[3ric]

2 questions:

what bar is SS? refering to masked pair of RR/SS for WRs/RBs.


SS should be ST = special teams

[Chubby]

bump

[cuervo72]

Heh. Good, I won't have to search for it.

[Chubby]

Heh. Good, I won't have to search for it.

That's why I bumped it :)

[strickzilla]

Question..

Say a general player has strong combines that place him in the higher baskets... but then one dismal score that does not qualify.

For instance ( I am making this up) Lets say a WR with a 4.38-7-6.79-11.5-48

Would his 7 in bench doom him to being a 425 type player? Even though his speed says he should be a 575 type?


bumped for curiosity cause i got a QB 4.51 - 7 - 7.52 - 9'0 - 79 and cause nobody really addressed this

[MalcPow]

Nothing dooms anybody per se, and these figures are best used as guidelines for a sense of what a good or great combine truly is for the different scores. Looking at this with our knowledge that bench correlates to ability to throw long and deep passes, you can speculate pretty strongly that your QB will not be good at those things even if he is a very useful player. Or you can speculate that his crappy combine in that category might be a sign he is not going to be a very useful player.

It's all just food for thought and information for better analysis.

[Johninja]

Does Height have anything to do with it? I always pass on undersized qb's (anyone under 6'0) even if they have good bars.

[MalcPow]

Height was not used in this research. I've always treated it as a pretty minor variable for consideration.

[nthinch]

Making sure I get this right.

QB in upcoming draft.

All 8 of his combine scores fit with the constraints of a 575 player.
He has maxed out bars in Short Passing and Accuracy to go along with a maxed Sense Rush.
He has a maxed bar in Scramble that correlates with his 4.62 - 40.
All of his other bars are basically at 0.
He knows 14 positions already but has 0 stats from college.
49% Developed.

Looks like a steal based on the above. So how much do the horrible bars in basically every other category come into play?

[MalcPow]

The information here is food for thought and should color how you look at a guy. This thread probably isn't the best place to solicit advice on specific players though. Happy hunting.

[Subby]

I'll piggyback on what malcpow said here and mention that whenever I had questions on specific guys I just PMed him and he always got back to me the same day. He has looked at at least 100 guys for me via PM. He is really selfless like that.

[Tasan]

Is there any way we could just sticky this thread? I keep forgetting about it when I need draft help.

[stretch]

Cs

Grade Adjst Dash Sole Strg Agil BJmp
625 7.5 6.5 4.87 49 39 7.52 110
4.2 3.6 5.17 13 26 7.84 95

600 7.3 6.3 4.87 49 39 7.52 110
4.1 3.5 5.23 13 25 7.91 94

575 6.8 5.9 4.9 49 39 7.54 109
3.5 3 5.29 13 25 7.98 91

550 6.5 5.6 5.03 49 39 7.68 106
3 2.6 5.31 13 21 8 88


-I'm not that into the Cs. Apologies. Probably best to stay away if a guy's outside these numbers.

-And yeah, same masking stuff as Ts/Gs.

If no one has done it before then, in December I'll see if I can get the numbers to finish this table.

[stretch]

I've decided to add to this knowledge base by performing a few experiments of my own.

This first example will be the most detailed. For brevity sake, the others will just provide the finalized data.

Experimental Method
Created 6 draft files of 1,000 QBs with 375s in all values. Imported these draft file into FOF 2007 single player league ready for the draft. Used Greg Stelmack's Extractor to pull the combine scores for all players. Stored combine scores in a spreadsheet and analyzed the results. Continued on with 400s, 425s, 450s, etc. (For the record, that's 72 draft files).

The columns below are as follows:

Solecismic = Solecismic score listed
Expected Value = See below
Adj Exp Val = See below
375, 400, 425... = values that were filled in for all player ratings in the draft file

For example, reading across on the Solecismic=14 line:

71 QBs with 375s in all values were listed as having a Solecismic of 14
4 QBs with 400s in all values had a Solecismic of 14
3 QBs with 425s in all values had a Solecismic of 14
No QBs with a value of 450 or higher in all ratings had a 14.The Expected Value field was calculcated by multiplying the %chance that a particular value would have that score times the score itself. For example, a Solecismic score of 9 was seen 6 times for all 375s and 1 time for all 400s. That means that if we see a Solecismic of 9, there is a 6/7 chance that this is a 375 player and a 1/7 chance this is a 400 player. (6/7)*375+(1/7)*400=378.57.

In the middle of the graphs where there is a large sample size, most of the distributions are very well behaved. At the fringes, as the sample sizes decrease, things tend to get a little wonky and values get skewed.

Operating on the assumption that higher Solecismic is generally better, I have done a listtle bit of linear interpolation for some of the values that were out-of-whack, producing a steadily increasing Adjusted Expected Value instead of the calculated one that oscillates a bit due to small sample size.

For example, due to small sample size a Solecismic score of 48 calculated better than one of 49. This is sampling error and the value was adjusted to be between the one higher and lower.

I have the QBs done and will be posting my findings over the next few posts. If anyone finds this interesting I'll post a spreadsheet that automatically calculates estimated values.

Thanks for reading. And now...the data...

QB Solecismic Values


Solecismic Expected Value Adj Exp Va 375 400 425 450 475 500 525 550 575 600 625
8 375.00 375.00 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
9 378.57 378.57 6 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
10 378.57 378.57 12 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
11 376.09 376.09 22 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
12 378.57 376.11 18 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
13 376.14 376.14 42 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
14 378.21 378.21 71 4 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
15 379.96 379.96 111 15 4 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
16 379.69 381.31 148 23 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
17 382.65 382.65 243 60 8 3 3 0 0 0 0 0 0
18 385.36 385.36 261 90 18 9 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
19 387.74 387.74 342 132 32 15 7 0 0 0 0 0 0
20 390.36 390.36 326 169 56 17 5 0 0 0 0 0 0
21 393.04 393.04 364 215 81 24 12 0 1 0 0 0 0
22 395.65 395.65 420 264 115 43 17 2 2 0 0 0 0
23 400.87 400.87 400 279 149 83 34 4 0 0 0 0 0
24 404.78 404.78 388 324 199 103 51 5 3 0 0 0 0
25 408.05 408.05 333 304 214 124 60 4 2 0 0 0 0
26 409.86 409.86 298 276 217 127 60 4 4 0 0 0 0
27 410.64 410.64 252 244 185 112 60 6 1 0 0 0 0
28 444.87 444.87 1095 1607 1809 1670 1473 766 643 242 22 29 28
29 463.97 463.97 157 366 472 500 490 375 322 177 16 22 26
30 472.51 472.51 160 363 439 541 588 475 436 275 53 43 35
31 479.72 479.72 128 313 445 564 603 524 481 354 87 69 58
32 489.55 489.55 89 276 428 514 574 584 560 433 125 121 111
33 501.83 501.83 54 194 365 434 490 628 590 512 221 164 169
34 516.07 516.07 46 152 339 438 552 745 775 784 397 326 315
35 532.01 532.01 17 79 168 255 308 531 569 609 417 391 377
36 544.78 544.78 7 34 98 181 234 406 426 563 487 467 430
37 555.58 555.58 8 21 57 112 160 353 381 520 574 514 534
38 565.40 565.40 5 10 45 58 92 250 299 451 599 575 565
39 575.70 575.70 2 9 21 25 65 146 217 366 598 642 631
40 583.44 583.44 2 7 13 25 30 101 142 308 673 718 750
41 586.70 586.70 1 3 10 11 24 52 74 156 456 511 520
42 591.39 591.39 0 1 5 4 10 27 35 112 375 418 438
43 593.29 593.29 0 0 3 5 7 7 22 72 302 322 337
44 594.21 594.21 0 0 2 5 3 17 17 36 209 268 268
45 595.44 595.44 0 0 0 0 3 4 8 17 164 173 157
46 594.73 595.46 0 0 0 1 2 6 6 10 111 106 114
47 595.48 595.48 0 0 0 0 0 2 1 10 60 58 57
48 601.61 595.66 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 3 24 36 44
49 595.83 595.83 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 15 21 15
50 592.07 595.83 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 15 12 10
51 587.50 599.31 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 2 0
52 602.78 602.78 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 2 4
53 604.17 604.17 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 2 6
54 595.00 605.00 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 6 0 4

[stretch]

QB 40-yard Dash Data




40Yard Expected Value Adj Exp Val 375 400 425 450 475 500 525 550 575 600 625
5.15 375.43 375.00 3375 59 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
5.14 375.38 375.38 455 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
5.13 375.96 375.96 449 18 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
5.12 376.11 376.11 432 20 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
5.11 380.51 380.51 389 110 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
5.1 384.19 384.19 153 89 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
5.09 390.12 390.12 113 173 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
5.08 393.44 393.44 124 286 13 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
5.07 400.04 400.04 22 557 23 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
5.06 400.16 400.16 19 438 22 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
5.05 399.66 400.17 21 481 14 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
5.04 400.18 400.18 14 531 18 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
5.03 400.00 402.03 12 545 12 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
5.02 403.89 403.89 20 621 109 15 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
5.01 405.53 405.53 0 473 100 15 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
5 406.70 406.70 0 418 127 11 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
4.99 412.74 412.74 0 294 257 16 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
4.98 419.63 419.63 0 194 596 20 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
4.97 420.47 420.47 0 117 451 12 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
4.96 424.84 424.84 0 77 475 73 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
4.95 428.39 426.38 0 9 517 93 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
4.94 427.92 427.92 0 20 596 104 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
4.93 433.17 433.17 0 18 617 335 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
4.92 435.96 435.96 0 18 461 406 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
4.91 437.23 437.23 0 15 494 517 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
4.9 438.44 438.44 0 14 336 437 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
4.89 444.05 444.05 0 0 226 724 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
4.88 446.64 446.64 0 0 89 573 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
4.87 445.82 447.93 0 0 92 458 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
4.86 449.21 449.21 0 0 16 492 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
4.85 449.28 449.28 0 0 15 503 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
4.84 476.46 476.46 0 0 81 971 3107 586 332 61 0 0 0
4.83 490.44 490.44 0 0 0 0 379 248 80 12 0 0 0
4.82 495.30 495.30 0 0 0 0 303 309 138 11 0 0 0
4.81 498.68 498.68 0 0 0 0 264 296 209 7 0 0 0
4.8 497.45 501.19 0 0 0 0 343 321 227 12 0 0 0
4.79 503.70 503.70 0 0 0 0 452 461 448 111 0 0 0
4.78 504.68 504.68 0 0 0 0 233 407 280 69 0 0 0
4.77 507.10 507.10 0 0 0 0 175 380 309 65 0 0 0
4.76 510.19 510.19 0 0 0 0 137 360 326 92 0 0 0
4.75 516.35 516.35 0 0 0 0 78 308 405 131 6 0 0
4.74 520.39 520.39 0 0 0 0 74 310 362 231 6 4 5
4.73 522.36 522.36 0 0 0 0 108 500 536 416 14 13 16
4.72 525.43 525.43 0 0 0 0 13 327 326 299 11 7 7
4.71 528.82 528.82 0 0 0 0 5 251 323 302 14 13 8
4.7 530.95 530.95 0 0 0 0 17 192 299 327 11 12 12
4.69 533.92 533.92 0 0 0 0 12 144 271 344 7 7 19
4.68 537.45 537.45 0 0 0 0 16 61 263 364 10 9 12
4.67 540.29 540.29 0 0 0 0 11 105 249 622 10 17 16
4.66 543.70 543.70 0 0 0 0 11 72 88 335 71 10 8
4.65 553.10 553.10 0 0 0 0 14 39 72 301 73 32 42
4.64 561.55 561.55 0 0 0 0 8 14 66 322 66 58 72
4.63 561.47 561.47 0 0 0 0 7 10 77 329 57 72 67
4.62 572.15 572.15 0 0 0 0 0 7 6 233 149 58 74
4.61 580.12 580.12 0 0 0 0 0 18 12 290 310 194 191
4.6 588.76 588.76 0 0 0 0 0 16 8 97 305 193 213
4.59 592.13 592.13 0 0 0 0 0 9 10 68 316 248 238
4.58 594.52 594.52 0 0 0 0 0 13 10 71 311 323 308
4.57 593.80 595.25 0 0 0 0 0 16 9 71 328 303 305
4.56 595.99 595.99 0 0 0 0 0 10 16 50 521 465 464
4.55 598.30 598.30 0 0 0 0 0 0 5 15 364 383 334
4.54 600.61 599.15 0 0 0 0 0 0 12 11 317 370 402
4.53 600.52 600.00 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 10 341 369 384
4.52 600.58 600.10 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 10 311 358 355
4.51 599.68 600.15 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 16 314 280 334
4.5 599.21 600.23 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 27 506 478 512
4.49 600.31 600.31 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 11 252 342 285
4.48 602.30 600.50 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 15 180 265 278
4.47 602.04 600.60 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 165 224 221
4.46 605.01 600.70 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 77 173 159
4.45 601.83 600.80 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 87 118 110
4.44 599.49 600.90 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 100 99 94
4.43 601.48 601.48 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 52 71 63
4.42 610.20 601.50 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 10 67 70
4.41 625.00 601.60 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 5
4.4 591.67 601.60 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 2 0
4.39 595.00 601.60 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 4 0
4.38 600.00 601.60 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9 10 9
4.37 600.00 601.60 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 11 6 11
4.36 602.84 601.60 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 12 15 17
4.35 601.70 601.70 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 15 11 18
4.34 603.03 603.03 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 10 9 14
4.33 595.63 603.69 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 15 17 8
4.32 604.35 604.35 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 6 7 10
4.31 603.23 605.00 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 7 13 11
4.3 601.47 605.00 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 6 4 7

[stretch]

QB Bench Press Scores




Bench Expected Value Adj Exp Val 375 400 425 450 475 500 525 550 575 600 625
6 377.89 377.89 5457 696 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
7 401.47 401.47 141 3945 347 28 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
8 423.96 423.96 0 916 3632 698 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
9 442.29 442.29 0 45 1698 4051 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
10 484.65 484.65 0 0 72 998 4586 1856 1145 129 0 0 0
11 509.93 509.93 0 0 0 0 929 2031 1830 605 12 0 0
12 526.76 526.76 0 0 0 0 172 1419 1803 1609 62 57 56
13 542.67 542.67 0 0 0 0 72 392 774 1945 173 98 119
14 576.98 576.98 0 0 0 0 8 58 162 1142 1072 615 676
15 595.76 595.76 0 0 0 0 0 34 56 253 1864 1769 1709
16 600.00 600.00 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 55 1750 1868 1871
17 603.27 603.27 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 23 663 1065 1079
18 604.46 604.46 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 26 40 46
19 604.63 604.63 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 36 60 66
20 603.90 603.90 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 40 77 69
21 603.57 604.45 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 50 68 78
22 600.96 605.00 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 17 16 19

[stretch]

QB Agility Scores


Agility Expected Value Adj Exp Val 375 400 425 450 475 500 525 550 575 600 625
8.4 377.44 375.00 37 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
8.39 375.00 375.00 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
8.38 375.00 375.00 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
8.37 379.17 375.89 15 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
8.36 376.79 376.79 13 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
8.35 377.78 377.78 16 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
8.34 377.78 377.78 32 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
8.33 382.58 377.78 24 8 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
8.32 383.33 377.78 9 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
8.31 377.84 377.84 40 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
8.3 378.70 378.70 49 3 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
8.29 378.33 379.14 28 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
8.28 379.58 379.58 53 3 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
8.27 379.39 381.08 61 13 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
8.26 383.11 382.58 28 6 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
8.25 382.58 383.11 48 16 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
8.24 381.37 384.06 84 14 1 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
8.23 383.05 385.00 44 12 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
8.22 387.61 387.61 72 37 4 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0
8.21 385.08 389.01 84 33 5 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
8.2 390.42 390.42 35 15 9 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
8.19 392.42 392.42 73 38 12 6 3 0 0 0 0 0 0
8.18 392.28 392.68 80 45 17 4 3 0 0 0 0 0 0
8.17 392.94 392.94 40 32 10 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
8.16 391.53 393.97 94 62 18 3 3 0 0 0 0 0 0
8.15 395.00 395.00 79 59 22 7 3 0 0 0 0 0 0
8.14 394.12 396.27 40 31 9 4 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
8.13 397.54 397.54 75 65 31 10 2 0 0 0 0 0 0
8.12 399.25 399.25 80 67 36 16 2 0 0 0 0 0 0
8.11 399.09 400.24 43 42 17 4 3 0 1 0 0 0 0
8.1 401.22 401.22 85 63 30 16 11 0 0 0 0 0 0
8.09 407.28 407.28 72 70 50 28 8 1 1 0 0 0 0
8.08 408.73 408.73 43 40 40 17 4 2 0 0 0 0 0
8.07 410.85 408.77 77 71 59 46 9 1 2 0 0 0 0
8.06 408.80 408.80 66 84 56 34 10 0 0 0 0 0 0
8.05 410.29 410.29 47 29 25 28 6 1 0 0 0 0 0
8.04 414.54 414.54 71 86 74 52 21 2 0 0 0 0 0
8.03 414.17 415.51 85 75 56 55 28 0 1 0 0 0 0
8.02 416.49 416.49 58 34 35 30 27 1 0 0 0 0 0
8.01 416.48 416.49 83 98 77 46 46 2 0 0 0 0 0
8 420.46 420.46 72 76 83 58 40 7 0 0 0 0 0
7.99 423.58 420.64 39 46 36 38 30 1 3 0 0 0 0
7.98 420.81 420.81 83 88 66 66 56 5 0 0 0 0 0
7.97 421.52 421.52 90 65 82 62 50 7 3 0 0 0 0
7.96 424.23 424.23 40 39 43 37 32 4 0 0 0 0 0
7.95 423.35 426.63 83 104 70 71 69 10 1 0 0 0 0
7.94 429.02 429.02 77 77 81 87 63 16 9 0 0 0 0
7.93 429.21 429.21 36 45 47 36 37 9 4 0 0 0 0
7.92 431.18 431.18 86 74 70 78 69 27 13 0 0 0 0
7.91 431.24 431.24 69 89 96 87 66 33 5 0 0 0 0
7.9 429.69 433.06 35 46 41 44 33 10 4 0 0 0 0
7.89 434.92 434.89 75 78 86 60 87 33 17 0 0 0 0
7.88 431.87 434.91 81 83 65 65 74 27 16 0 0 0 0
7.87 434.89 434.92 29 34 39 37 25 13 10 0 0 0 0
7.86 439.86 439.86 45 50 66 58 55 32 17 0 0 0 0
7.85 439.29 439.29 59 47 53 60 59 29 22 0 0 0 0
7.84 435.69 439.76 37 25 32 32 26 20 8 0 0 0 0
7.83 440.23 440.23 52 46 53 47 51 27 26 0 0 0 0
7.82 435.10 444.35 42 69 57 46 35 35 13 0 0 0 0
7.81 448.47 448.47 23 13 19 19 23 19 15 0 0 0 0
7.8 460.36 460.36 733 758 815 788 822 768 727 405 57 33 51
7.79 465.69 465.69 53 63 55 69 55 50 58 43 13 8 3
7.78 471.50 471.50 47 47 71 57 55 57 69 54 6 10 5
7.77 473.89 472.30 56 59 58 73 73 62 63 52 20 14 12
7.76 473.11 473.11 112 120 137 148 129 140 153 112 25 25 23
7.75 474.33 474.33 56 70 67 82 73 65 72 63 16 8 22
7.74 479.09 479.09 53 55 66 91 73 89 84 59 14 22 17
7.73 476.06 479.70 60 80 74 98 83 74 80 78 24 19 16
7.72 480.37 480.31 130 136 141 191 151 181 141 135 65 50 53
7.71 480.31 480.37 57 90 88 77 83 87 92 82 28 28 23
7.7 479.37 482.39 71 80 103 75 67 71 91 67 31 37 28
7.69 484.41 484.41 71 95 87 91 79 89 93 93 43 35 40
7.68 486.21 486.21 124 146 176 176 173 177 169 169 81 71 75
7.67 484.85 486.54 59 92 100 83 95 86 95 78 39 33 47
7.66 486.88 486.88 62 80 97 94 87 97 98 91 44 35 42
7.65 495.42 495.42 42 78 70 71 81 85 98 92 52 41 43
7.64 496.56 496.56 101 133 161 188 184 196 193 187 114 103 106
7.63 496.39 498.28 48 62 88 105 89 104 81 91 51 45 67
7.62 504.69 500.00 58 64 72 78 102 99 107 97 70 92 62
7.61 502.62 502.62 40 84 90 85 94 112 107 111 71 74 66
7.6 506.92 506.92 61 106 160 163 213 195 178 201 131 134 141
7.59 506.70 506.70 32 61 73 103 88 111 106 82 78 67 76
7.58 509.84 509.84 29 56 78 75 90 81 90 94 74 67 79
7.57 514.57 514.57 36 51 76 83 83 93 89 115 87 94 85
7.56 519.46 519.46 39 75 141 148 156 222 190 197 183 172 174
7.55 519.90 519.90 12 38 65 78 86 98 82 110 100 72 83
7.54 522.73 522.73 18 36 58 63 75 88 102 99 85 74 96
7.53 521.59 525.79 15 46 58 83 70 92 110 90 99 86 93
7.52 528.85 528.85 24 64 93 114 151 191 215 197 199 224 164
7.51 531.26 531.26 5 29 37 58 70 92 96 98 108 89 85
7.5 530.33 531.85 9 24 40 62 68 90 92 87 92 94 88
7.49 532.43 532.43 7 32 46 44 50 99 81 108 86 91 96
7.48 538.81 538.81 8 35 70 92 123 156 179 200 192 206 196
7.47 541.97 541.97 3 16 29 37 60 76 76 82 95 100 102
7.46 542.34 542.34 5 12 38 30 49 65 83 109 96 103 89
7.45 545.16 545.16 3 11 27 40 40 76 75 101 93 96 105
7.44 549.33 549.33 3 13 37 46 93 136 139 153 202 189 182
7.43 553.81 553.81 2 4 12 25 44 59 65 81 97 97 104
7.42 554.01 554.01 2 3 14 32 36 56 66 72 96 113 96
7.41 554.59 554.59 1 5 12 23 28 57 58 91 85 95 90
7.4 557.22 557.22 2 7 22 40 47 101 134 174 169 149 214
7.39 559.64 559.64 3 3 10 11 42 55 49 78 87 106 111
7.38 564.99 564.99 0 4 4 13 25 42 53 56 84 90 111
7.37 562.58 565.50 2 1 4 15 20 43 46 70 102 72 94
7.36 566.01 566.01 5 5 6 18 37 78 91 130 200 176 191
7.35 572.57 572.57 1 3 4 5 7 38 41 64 101 98 111
7.34 575.23 575.21 0 0 4 7 7 28 40 50 88 105 100
7.33 569.99 575.22 1 0 4 3 11 27 43 56 84 84 76
7.32 575.21 575.23 1 1 2 14 22 45 52 114 193 199 173
7.31 581.30 577.41 1 0 0 1 7 20 23 43 80 98 92
7.3 579.58 579.58 1 1 0 4 9 17 21 46 99 88 96
7.29 577.98 577.98 0 0 5 2 5 21 19 40 72 86 77
7.28 579.48 579.48 1 3 6 5 9 19 31 65 164 140 137
7.27 583.91 583.91 0 0 2 1 4 9 9 35 88 89 66
7.26 589.23 589.23 0 0 0 0 0 7 11 25 70 78 69
7.25 589.54 589.54 0 0 3 1 2 7 13 21 52 76 88
7.24 590.85 590.85 0 0 1 2 4 5 18 35 127 140 138
7.23 591.63 591.63 0 0 2 1 2 1 3 15 66 54 68
7.22 591.63 591.63 0 0 0 1 0 4 5 16 66 60 63
7.21 588.59 591.81 0 0 2 1 3 3 6 17 53 63 58
7.2 595.00 592.00 0 0 0 0 2 7 7 15 109 112 123
7.19 588.33 592.50 0 0 1 3 1 4 2 9 42 46 42
7.18 595.36 593.00 0 0 1 0 0 2 1 7 55 64 53
7.17 594.64 594.39 0 0 0 2 1 2 2 5 40 54 48
7.16 591.38 594.52 0 0 1 0 2 3 7 12 70 73 64
7.15 594.39 594.64 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 6 36 25 37
7.14 593.56 597.32 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 4 33 34 24
7.13 600.00 600.00 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 27 25 29
7.12 599.68 600.00 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 5 37 57 54
7.11 594.07 600.00 0 0 0 0 1 1 2 1 18 15 21
7.1 597.17 600.00 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 18 18 16
7.09 585.87 600.00 0 0 0 0 0 2 1 6 13 14 10
7.08 596.28 600.00 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 6 19 21 26
7.07 600.00 600.00 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 6 11 8
7.06 590.83 600.00 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 8 16 4
7.05 612.50 600.00 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 5 14
7.04 593.18 600.00 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 4 6 10 11
7.03 625.00 600.00 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2
7.02 587.50 600.00 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0
7.01 595.83 600.00 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 5 0
7 595.45 600.00 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 6 1 4
6.99 590.91 600.00 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 4 4 2
6.98 596.88 600.00 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 1 3
6.97 600.00 600.00 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 3 3 5
6.96 611.11 605 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 2 3 12
6.95 596.43 605 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 5 6 3
6.94 605.00 605 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 2 5
6.93 605.00 605 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 4 7
6.92 596.43 605 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 5 6 3

[stretch]

QB Broad Jump




Broad JumpExpected Value Adj Exp Val 375 400 425 450 475 500 525 550 575 600 625
90 375.24 375.24 626 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
91 376.35 376.35 752 43 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
92 377.61 377.61 781 87 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
93 381.75 381.75 784 259 13 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
94 385.43 385.43 769 496 20 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
95 388.18 388.18 765 634 62 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
96 391.36 391.36 793 723 174 15 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
97 403.63 403.63 231 796 358 40 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
98 410.60 410.60 71 803 540 83 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
99 417.97 417.97 19 733 681 287 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
100 425.06 425.06 5 494 777 508 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
101 429.31 429.31 2 328 810 639 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
102 452.80 452.80 0 142 796 817 587 204 112 12 0 0 0
103 466.00 466.00 0 37 596 830 743 396 278 43 0 0 0
104 476.22 476.22 0 15 547 818 817 632 515 143 4 3 1
105 489.26 489.26 0 6 270 740 801 782 726 337 20 3 11
106 499.49 499.49 0 0 85 518 800 796 775 539 19 17 8
107 509.60 509.60 0 0 22 331 831 814 780 729 79 51 60
108 523.32 523.32 0 0 4 144 841 812 774 767 264 193 200
109 548.19 548.19 0 0 0 0 221 563 726 779 456 382 348
110 561.67 561.67 0 0 0 0 87 441 554 786 615 546 554
111 575.23 575.23 0 0 0 0 26 249 330 711 778 771 742
112 586.27 586.27 0 0 0 0 10 70 136 489 792 771 815
113 593.15 593.15 0 0 0 0 3 18 51 269 818 793 833
114 597.12 597.12 0 0 0 0 0 12 13 105 745 768 765
115 599.47 599.47 0 0 0 0 0 1 4 30 556 616 594
116 601.55 601.55 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 19 366 465 487
117 602.18 602.18 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 188 244 254
118 604.15 604.15 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 46 84 81
119 606.78 606.78 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 12 19 28
120 600.00 610.00 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 7 7 7

[stretch]

QB Position Drill




PosDrill Expected Value Adj Exp Val 375 400 425 450 475 500 525 550 575 600 625
47 375.25 375.25 905 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
48 375.52 375.52 1123 24 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
49 375.91 375.91 1276 48 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
50 376.48 376.48 1351 85 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
51 381.69 381.69 463 162 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
52 388.75 388.75 317 339 15 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
53 394.59 394.59 156 481 15 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
54 398.39 398.39 78 720 25 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
55 400.51 400.51 32 806 46 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
56 401.84 401.84 25 867 73 12 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
57 405.29 405.29 17 759 189 18 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
58 409.07 409.07 15 605 333 17 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
59 415.05 415.05 0 396 511 25 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
60 421.07 421.07 0 244 661 88 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
61 426.45 426.45 0 104 847 169 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
62 430.16 430.16 0 64 879 326 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
63 434.10 434.10 0 24 813 517 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
64 438.34 438.34 0 10 581 698 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
65 441.42 441.42 0 11 427 870 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
66 444.54 444.54 0 2 248 903 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
67 466.75 466.75 0 0 125 900 843 183 93 22 0 0 0
68 472.22 472.22 0 0 68 681 904 285 116 23 0 0 0
69 480.37 480.37 0 0 31 443 1159 457 244 22 0 0 0
70 486.10 486.10 0 0 23 271 1262 574 357 52 0 0 0
71 500.47 500.47 0 0 0 0 540 554 432 69 0 0 0
72 505.08 505.08 0 0 0 0 417 596 545 105 0 0 0
73 511.67 511.67 0 0 0 0 315 632 621 250 7 2 4
74 515.32 515.32 0 0 0 0 212 625 664 300 5 4 6
75 520.93 520.93 0 0 0 0 114 577 603 422 14 10 10
76 526.05 526.05 0 0 0 0 67 442 603 515 19 15 12
77 529.82 529.82 0 0 0 0 29 361 461 551 10 17 19
78 535.40 535.40 0 0 0 0 22 236 422 623 33 25 23
79 540.04 540.04 0 0 0 0 11 165 287 572 49 28 30
80 549.88 549.88 0 0 0 0 12 92 187 582 94 43 74
81 555.44 555.44 0 0 0 0 21 80 113 519 149 83 83
82 572.81 572.81 0 0 0 0 3 27 66 447 273 195 186
83 581.18 581.18 0 0 0 0 4 9 46 347 358 260 271
84 589.11 589.11 0 0 0 0 0 22 12 217 513 400 393
85 594.04 594.04 0 0 0 0 0 14 17 121 585 521 512
86 596.80 596.80 0 0 0 0 0 11 17 64 609 562 594
87 598.37 598.37 0 0 0 0 0 7 12 41 600 608 623
88 598.81 598.81 0 0 0 0 0 0 7 22 590 579 571
89 599.60 599.60 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 17 583 623 594
90 600.23 600.23 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 14 491 577 534
91 601.64 601.64 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 13 349 458 459
92 601.85 601.85 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 5 257 358 338
93 604.56 604.56 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 131 222 247
94 603.92 604.58 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 82 137 138
95 604.60 604.60 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 41 60 73
96 605.37 605.37 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 33 62 68
97 606.67 606.67 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 14 27 34
98 601.61 606.83 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 19 20 23
99 600.00 607.00 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 23 25 23

[RedKingGold]

Thanks for your work stretch. These appear to be some solid testing methods, but what conclusions did you draw?

[dwardzala]

Stretch, would you mind sending me the raw data? I don't have the utility to create draft class files. Or if you could tell me where to get that utility, that'd be great too.

[Wanderer]

Stretch, would you mind sending me the raw data? I don't have the utility to create draft class files. Or if you could tell me where to get that utility, that'd be great too.Ditto. It looks like really nice work, and I would like to see both the classes that you used and the resulting spreadsheets.

Also, any reason why the extractor won't work for me? I just get errors and errors and errors.

The reason I sought out this thread today: do the masked pairs seem to work in reverse? In other words, if a player has a bunch of high scores and a masked pair that is lower than it otherwise "ought" to be, is that an indicator of a likely draft bust? I didn't see this discussed anywhere, but I may have missed it.

[Wanderer]

Masked QBs, especially quality guys, will almost always have high sense rush coupled with a high long passing bar or a pair of high bars in the following combinations: med/timing, short/acc, 3rd/two min, and deep/read. No combine guys are more likely to be masked in this way.Also, the way I read this it looks like you have to have a high sense rush WITH either LP or both of the other things listed. Is sense rush a constant here, or is it just what is paired with long passing as an indicator?

In that case, the pairs would be:
SR/LP
MP/TIM
SP/ACC
3rd/2MIN
DP/READ

If it is the way I read the language it would be:
SR/LP
SR/MP/TIM
SR/SP/ACC
etc.

[Wanderer]

Finally, I can add to the knowledge base...I think. A little bit, at least. I haven't seen these 2 little things mentioned anywhere.

First:
One way that I *HAVE* found these masked pairs useful in indicating busts (as opposed to sleepers) is by seeing when they are unmatched in groups.

That makes no sense, so let me explain. Your masked pairs are:
SR/LP
MP/TIM
SP/ACC
3rd/2MIN
DP/READ

right?

If you look at Kurt Dillon below:

2211


you'll notice that our esteemed Mr. Dillon has very high bars in the bolded ratings:
SR/LP
MP/TIM
SP/ACC
3rd/2MIN
DP/READ

The others suck. That is what we call a lure. Also, Scramble Frequency and Kick Holding are high, which make the overall picture look rosier, but those are irrelevant (KH is not, but that, after all, is what your 3rd QB is for.)

Confirming this, an interview told me (I used pre-interview screenshot, sorry) that he was very overrated, and that his Intelligence graded out significantly higher than his Wonderlic (see below). But here's a great case when you can avoid burning an interview by seeing the bar pattern.

Second:
This is probably obvious to most, but the implications may not be: the Wonderlic by itself tells you a little bit, but the Wonderlic to Intelligence ratio gives you what I believe is the single most important factor in evaluating a quarterback - not necessarily in his rating, but in his performance on the field (and by that I mean whether he makes his team more likely to win or lose, not necessarily his statistics): a dead-on balls accurate assessment of his Avoid Interceptions rating. Since 50% of the Wonderlic determines Intelligence, and 10% determines Sense Rush, the rest of it tells you the Avoid INTs score, you can very closely assess this critical score by that ratio.

If you look at Melvin Hoffman below, you'll see a High Wonderlic (36) and a Very High Intelligence (91). 50% of that Wonderlic score should go to Intelligence, so that score should be in the 75ish range. All that extra Intelligence is lowering the Avoid INTs score...no other way around it. Mr. Hoffman is a pick machine, and a huge bust in spite of going blue Fash, Wonderlic, Agility, and Passing Drills. The kicker is that his bars turned out reasonably okay, and he could put up some decent numbers overall...but averaged some 20 INTs per year as a starter, and absolutely killed his teams.
2214


Melvin Hoffman = Rex Grossman, Jay Cutler in Denver, whatever.

Conversely, the same year Greg Carlisle came out. Both he and Hoffman rated 5.1/5.8 in their overall draft rankings. Carlisle was worse than Hoffman by a hair in every part of the combine except broad jump. All were black except Wonderlic. His % Developed was much better, though. His bars were scattered, no clear masking signs apart from being listed as Very Underrated. But his Wonderlic was High (35) and his intelligence was Average (57) He looked like a marginal starter, and performed like one...except he always threw relatively few interceptions, and his teams did well.

2212


Greg Carlisle = Matt Cassel, Trent Dilfer, etc.

One last example is from that same year, combining two of these things:

2213


Mitch Detsch was ranked 3.5/4.0 in his draft ranking, and his combines were all black, green in broad jump and passing drills. You'll see he sports a partial masked pair (long/SR), but my scout thought he was Very Overrated and he had low volatility to boot. But you'll also notice a High Wonderlic (28, still black, but lists as High), and Low Intelligence (21). With that is a moderately high Sense Rush, part of the masked pair. The Sense Rush fits the Wonderlic, but that Intelligence should be in the 50s or 60s. I picked him up as an UDFA, and watched him creep into the low 50s. I started him as an experiment in his 5th year on a team with a good defense and running game around him and we went 11-5 and lost in the FO Bowl. He went 59%, 3200+ yards, 21 TDs, 5 INTs in about 500 attempts. I liked him.

I then traded him (for squat, as an experiment) to a QB poor team with very average talent and the team went 10-6 and 1 and done losing to my team. He had to throw more and went about 55% for 3400+ yards, 22 TDs, 11 INTs in 575 attempts.

Both teams outperformed their power rankings by quite a decent margin.

FWIW, YMMV and all that jazz.

[Ben E Lou]

-Don't draft QBs with a bench lower than 10. As we'll discuss with some other criteria, some of these constraints are best used as rules of thumb and not hard boundaries. (Remember, we're talking about guys with across the board attribute ratings at a certain level. It's quite possible you can land effective guys with a different mix of certain ratings or something. Just be dang skeptical of them.) I use 10 bench as a hard boundary for QBs. It's really just not worth messing with guys below that in my opinion.J.C. Moln (http://www.younglifenorthdekalb.com/woof/ben/playercard.php?playerid=12377) (7) and Glenn Coleman (http://www.younglifenorthdekalb.com/ihof/ben/playercard.php?playerid=12316) (9) told me to tell you to SUCK IT! :D

[garion333]

J.C. Moln (http://www.younglifenorthdekalb.com/woof/ben/playercard.php?playerid=12377) (7) and Glenn Coleman (http://www.younglifenorthdekalb.com/ihof/ben/playercard.php?playerid=12316) (9) told me to tell you to SUCK IT! :D

Oh yes, Ben making the best use of his players. Shocking. :devil:

[Ben E Lou]

Coleman belongs to Quik. Equally shocking, I know.

[cuervo72]

He doesn't yet have the stats, but Fonzie hasn't shied from noodle-armed guys either (http://www.thefofl.com/players/player.php?player=20660).

[Jughead Spock]

Coleman belongs to Quik. Equally shocking, I know.

'Belongs' to? And at only 15 million? SLAVERY!

[Johninja]

Does Height have anything to do with it? I always pass on undersized qb's (anyone under 6'0) even if they have good bars.

Height was not used in this research. I've always treated it as a pretty minor variable for consideration.

I thought i should bring this up

We've read that height and weight matter to some extent. Anything to look for with height and weight when drafting, such as do tall defensive linemen block more passes, or tall wide receivers catch more, or heavy defensive linemen stop the run better but get tired easily?

With weight, a player close to the ideal weight for his position will perform better (100% of his real ratings) in most areas than someone who is too heavy or too light. The difference, however, is very slight, as players can't move to positions they're ill-suited to play because of their weight. This does not affect quarterbacks, punters, kickers and cornerbacks. I honestly don't remember why I excluded cornerbacks specifically.

Same for height, except the cases are much more limited. Height matters most for quarterbacks, and slightly for receivers, defensive linemen, cornerbacks and safeties
This is from a Q&A Ben did with Jim found here
February 2008 Solecismic Q&A: Drafting Tips - Front Office Football Central (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?p=1660460#post1660460)

So while height/weight will not affect a guys current/potential numbers it could have an effect on his ability to actualy play at that level if he is undersized it seems.

[Ben E Lou]

Be careful. That was Feb. 2008. Multiple significant game updates have occurred since then. I suspect things have changed since then in that arena.

[Johninja]

So height/weight now applys more directly to bars and ratings?

I can see the merits of both ways. Would be nice to know which it is though.

[Ben E Lou]

So height/weight now applys more directly to bars and ratings?

I can see the merits of both ways. Would be nice to know which it is though.I didn't say that either. I said that I *suspect* that things have changed. And if they have, I don't think it applies directly to bars and ratings. I'd think it would be applied on top of the existing bars/ratings.

[stretch]

All,

Sorry I haven't had more time to work on this. Life's gotten fairly busy.

Simple version:


Solecis.40Yard Bench Agility BrdJump PosDrill
QB 44 4.52 15 7.18 114 89
28 4.84 10 7.8 102 67
RB 33 4.46 20 7.08 126 32
18 4.65 15 7.35 114 17
FB 33 4.68 27 7.25 113 42
19 4.78 20 7.6 102 22
TE 36 4.59 31 7.41 118 48
21 4.78 18 7.75 102 30
WR 35 4.38 15 6.91 62
17 4.51 11 7.2 41
C 5.06 34 7.74 102
5.31 20 8 88
G 5.08 37 7.64 102
5.27 23 7.9 88
T 5.08 37 7.54 106
5.27 22 7.8 90
P 38 4.83 16
21 5.07 10
K 40 4.96 16 114
22 5.12 9 102
DE 37 4.68 34 7.2 116
17 4.85 20 7.6 106
DT 34 4.95 37 7.46 112
14 5.07 25 7.08 98
ILB 41 4.7 29 7.32 118 41
19 4.86 16 7.6 99 27
OLB 39 4.55 24 7.14 122 42
17 4.71 12 7.4 108 27
CB 36 4.42 16 6.92 52
14 4.52 9 7.2 37
S 42 4.45 22 7.06 51
19 4.59 12 7.35 37



Okay, the above is a variant on the original idea. For each position and each measureable there are two values.

The top value is the "good value." Any value above that Solecismic, Bench, Broad Jump, or Position Drill indicates that value is a 575, 600, or 625 level skill. Any value below the top value for 40 Yard and Agility represents the same.

The reverse is true for the bottom value. Any value below the bottom value for Solecismic, Bench, Broad Jump, or Position Drill indicates that value is a 375, 400, 425, or 450 value player.

This is a quick, simplistic, and dirty way to find outliers.

But we've always known this.... What about the difficult way?

That will be coming in posts as I have time to put them up.

[stretch]

Solecismic Scores

READ THIS FIRST!!
This data is currently untested and is derived from statistical analysis detailed above.

To get the numbers to line up in a row perfectly there had to be a little fudging, especially at the periphery (really low and really high) due to small sample size at these extremes.

Use these values at your own risk. Not FDIC insured. People can and do lose money.


Sol QB RB FB TE WR C G T P K DE DT ILB OLB CB S
7 375 375 375 375 375 N/A N/A N/A 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
8 375 375 375 375 375 N/A N/A N/A 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
9 375 375 375 375 375 N/A N/A N/A 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
10 375 375 375 375 375 N/A N/A N/A 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
11 375 375 375 375 375 N/A N/A N/A 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
12 375 387.5 375 375 387.5 N/A N/A N/A 375 375 375 387.5 375 375 387.5 375
13 375 387.5 375 375 387.5 N/A N/A N/A 375 375 387.5 400 375 387.5 400 375
14 375 400 375 375 400 N/A N/A N/A 375 375 400 412.5 375 387.5 400 375
15 375 400 387.5 387.5 400 N/A N/A N/A 375 375 412.5 412.5 375 400 412.5 375
16 375 400 387.5 387.5 412.5 N/A N/A N/A 387.5 375 412.5 412.5 375 400 425 375
17 375 412.5 400 387.5 412.5 N/A N/A N/A 387.5 375 425 425 400 412.5 425 400
18 375 437.5 400 400 450 N/A N/A N/A 387.5 387.5 425 425 400 425 425 400
19 387.5 462.5 412.5 412.5 462.5 N/A N/A N/A 400 400 425 425 412.5 425 450 412.5
20 400 475 450 412.5 475 N/A N/A N/A 400 400 425 450 425 425 462.5 412.5
21 400 475 462.5 450 475 N/A N/A N/A 412.5 400 450 462.5 425 425 475 412.5
22 400 500 475 462.5 487.5 N/A N/A N/A 450 412.5 475 475 425 450 475 425
23 400 512.5 487.5 475 500 N/A N/A N/A 462.5 450 475 487.5 425 475 487.5 425
24 412.5 525 500 487.5 512.5 N/A N/A N/A 475 462.5 475 500 450 475 500 425
25 412.5 537.5 525 487.5 537.5 N/A N/A N/A 487.5 475 500 512.5 462.5 487.5 512.5 425
26 412.5 550 537.5 512.5 550 N/A N/A N/A 500 475 512.5 525 475 487.5 525 450
27 412.5 575 550 525 562.5 N/A N/A N/A 500 487.5 525 537.5 487.5 500 537.5 462.5
28 450 575 562.5 537.5 575 N/A N/A N/A 525 500 537.5 537.5 487.5 512.5 550 475
29 462.5 587.5 575 562.5 575 N/A N/A N/A 537.5 525 537.5 562.5 500 525 550 487.5
30 475 587.5 587.5 562.5 587.5 N/A N/A N/A 550 525 550 575 512.5 525 562.5 487.5
31 475 600 587.5 575 587.5 N/A N/A N/A 562.5 550 562.5 575 525 550 575 500
32 500 600 600 587.5 600 N/A N/A N/A 562.5 562.5 562.5 575 537.5 550 575 512.5
33 500 600 600 587.5 600 N/A N/A N/A 575 562.5 587.5 587.5 537.5 562.5 587.5 525
34 512.5 600 600 587.5 600 N/A N/A N/A 587.5 575 587.5 600 550 575 587.5 537.5
35 537.5 600 600 600 600 N/A N/A N/A 600 587.5 587.5 600 562.5 575 587.5 550
36 537.5 600 600 600 600 N/A N/A N/A 600 587.5 600 600 575 575 600 562.5
37 550 625 625 600 600 N/A N/A N/A 600 587.5 600 600 575 600 600 562.5
38 562.5 625 625 600 600 N/A N/A N/A 600 600 600 600 587.5 600 600 575
39 575 625 625 600 612.5 N/A N/A N/A 600 600 600 625 587.5 600 612.5 575
40 587.5 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A 600 600 612.5 625 587.5 600 612.5 587.5
41 587.5 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A 625 600 612.5 625 600 600 625 587.5
42 600 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A 625 600 612.5 625 600 600 625 600
43 600 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A 625 612.5 625 625 600 612.5 625 600
44 600 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 600 612.5 625 600
45 600 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 600 612.5 625 600
46 600 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 612.5 612.5 625 600
47 600 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625
48 600 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625
49 600 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625
50 625 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625
51 625 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625
52 625 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625
53 625 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625
54 625 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625


HOW TO INTERPRET THE DATA
Suppose you have a player with a 17 Solecismic score. If that player is a QB, then the Solecismic score tends to indicate a 375 level player. However, if that player were a DT, that would indcate a 425 level player.

Yes, some scores you'll never see. I've never heard of a WR with a 54 Solecismic score. I populated the entire table just in case some wacky scores get included in a future update.

You might be saying, "There isn't a 387.5 score in the game. What the heck?" Some scores were equally balanced between two values (in this case 375 and 400). I couldn't make a determination of a single value so the average of the two was placed here. If you want to use them as is, great. You can also round these values up or down, depending on your preference.

Coming next...40 Yard Dash.

[stretch]

40 Yard Dash Times

READ THIS FIRST!!
This data is currently untested and is derived from statistical analysis detailed above.

To get the numbers to line up in a row perfectly there had to be a little fudging, especially at the periphery (really low and really high) due to small sample size at these extremes.

Use these values at your own risk. Not FDIC insured. People can and do lose money.


40Yard QB RB FB TE WR C G T P K DE DT ILB OLB CB S
4.25 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625
4.26 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625
4.27 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625
4.28 625 625 625 625 612.5 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625
4.29 625 625 625 625 612.5 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625
4.30 625 625 625 625 612.5 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625
4.31 625 625 625 625 600 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 612.5 625
4.32 625 625 625 625 600 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 612.5 625
4.33 625 612.5 625 625 600 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 612.5 625
4.34 625 612.5 625 625 600 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 600 625
4.35 625 600 625 625 600 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 600 612.5
4.36 612.5 600 625 625 600 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 600 612.5
4.37 612.5 600 625 625 600 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 600 612.5
4.38 600 600 625 625 600 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 600 612.5
4.39 600 600 625 625 600 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 600 600
4.40 600 600 625 625 600 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 600 600
4.41 600 600 625 625 600 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 600 600
4.42 600 600 625 625 587.5 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 600 600
4.43 600 600 625 625 562.5 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 600 600
4.44 600 600 625 625 550 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 600 600
4.45 600 600 625 625 537.5 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 575 600
4.46 600 600 625 625 525 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 612.5 550 600
4.47 600 600 625 625 525 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 612.5 525 600
4.48 600 600 625 625 512.5 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 612.5 525 600
4.49 600 600 625 625 500 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 612.5 512.5 587.5
4.50 600 587.5 625 625 500 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 600 500 575
4.51 600 587.5 625 612.5 475 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 600 500 562.5
4.52 600 575 625 600 450 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 600 475 537.5
4.53 600 562.5 625 600 450 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 600 450 537.5
4.54 600 550 625 600 450 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 600 450 525
4.55 600 537.5 625 600 450 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 600 437.5 525
4.56 600 537.5 625 600 437.5 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 600 437.5 512.5
4.57 600 525 625 600 437.5 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 600 437.5 450
4.58 587.5 525 625 600 437.5 625 625 625 625 625 612.5 625 625 600 425 450
4.59 587.5 512.5 625 600 437.5 625 625 625 625 625 612.5 625 600 600 425 450
4.60 587.5 512.5 612.5 600 437.5 625 625 625 625 625 600 625 600 587.5 425 450
4.61 575 512.5 612.5 600 425 625 625 625 625 625 600 625 600 575 412.5 450
4.62 575 500 600 600 425 625 625 625 625 625 600 625 600 562.5 400 450
4.63 562.5 500 600 600 425 625 625 625 625 625 600 625 600 550 400 437.5
4.64 550 487.5 600 600 425 625 625 625 625 625 600 625 600 537.5 400 437.5
4.65 550 475 600 600 412.5 625 625 625 625 625 600 625 600 525 400 425
4.66 550 450 600 600 400 625 625 625 625 625 600 625 600 525 400 425
4.67 537.5 450 600 587.5 400 625 625 625 625 625 600 625 600 512.5 400 425
4.68 537.5 450 600 587.5 400 625 625 625 625 625 600 625 600 500 387.5 425
4.69 537.5 450 600 587.5 400 625 625 625 625 625 600 625 600 500 387.5 412.5
4.70 525 437.5 600 575 400 625 625 625 625 625 600 625 600 500 375 400
4.71 525 437.5 600 575 400 625 625 625 625 625 600 625 600 475 375 400
4.72 525 425 587.5 562.5 400 625 625 625 625 625 600 625 600 450 375 400
4.73 525 425 587.5 550 400 625 625 625 625 625 600 625 587.5 450 375 400
4.74 525 425 587.5 550 387.5 625 625 625 612.5 625 575 625 587.5 450 375 400
4.75 512.5 412.5 587.5 537.5 387.5 625 625 625 612.5 625 562.5 625 575 437.5 375 400
4.76 512.5 412.5 562.5 525 387.5 625 625 625 600 625 550 625 550 437.5 375 400
4.77 512.5 400 562.5 512.5 375 625 625 625 600 625 537.5 625 550 437.5 375 400
4.78 512.5 400 525 475 375 625 625 625 600 625 537.5 625 537.5 425 375 375
4.79 500 387.5 512.5 450 375 625 625 625 600 625 525 625 525 425 375 375
4.80 500 387.5 500 450 375 625 625 625 600 625 525 625 525 425 375 375
4.81 500 387.5 500 450 375 625 625 625 600 625 512.5 625 525 425 375 375
4.82 500 375 487.5 450 375 625 625 625 600 625 500 625 512.5 412.5 375 375
4.83 487.5 375 462.5 437.5 375 625 625 625 600 625 500 625 500 400 375 375
4.84 475 375 462.5 437.5 375 625 625 625 600 625 500 625 500 400 375 375
4.85 450 375 450 437.5 375 625 625 625 600 612.5 475 612.5 487.5 400 375 375
4.86 450 375 450 425 375 625 625 625 600 612.5 450 612.5 475 400 375 375
4.87 450 375 437.5 425 375 625 625 625 600 612.5 450 600 450 400 375 375
4.88 450 375 425 425 375 625 625 625 600 612.5 450 600 450 400 375 375
4.89 450 375 412.5 412.5 375 625 625 625 587.5 600 437.5 600 437.5 400 375 375
4.90 437.5 375 412.5 412.5 375 625 625 625 575 600 437.5 600 437.5 387.5 375 375
4.91 437.5 375 400 412.5 375 625 612.5 612.5 550 600 437.5 600 437.5 387.5 375 375
4.92 437.5 375 400 400 375 625 612.5 600 550 600 437.5 600 425 375 375 375
4.93 437.5 375 387.5 400 375 625 612.5 600 550 600 425 600 425 375 375 375
4.94 425 375 375 400 375 625 612.5 600 537.5 600 425 600 425 375 375 375
4.95 425 375 375 387.5 375 625 612.5 600 537.5 600 425 600 412.5 375 375 375
4.96 425 375 375 387.5 375 600 612.5 600 525 600 425 600 400 375 375 375
4.97 425 375 375 387.5 375 600 612.5 600 525 600 425 600 400 375 375 375
4.98 425 375 375 387.5 375 600 612.5 600 525 600 412.5 587.5 400 375 375 375
4.99 412.5 375 375 375 375 600 612.5 600 525 600 412.5 575 400 375 375 375
5.00 400 375 375 375 375 600 600 600 512.5 600 400 550 400 375 375 375
5.01 400 375 375 375 375 600 600 600 512.5 587.5 400 537.5 400 375 375 375
5.02 400 375 375 375 375 600 600 600 500 562.5 400 525 387.5 375 375 375
5.03 400 375 375 375 375 600 600 600 500 550 400 525 375 375 375 375
5.04 400 375 375 375 375 600 600 600 500 537.5 400 512.5 375 375 375 375
5.05 400 375 375 375 375 600 600 600 500 525 400 500 375 375 375 375
5.06 400 375 375 375 375 600 600 600 500 525 400 500 375 375 375 375
5.07 400 375 375 375 375 600 600 600 475 525 400 475 375 375 375 375
5.08 387.5 375 375 375 375 600 600 600 450 512.5 400 450 375 375 375 375
5.09 387.5 375 375 375 375 600 600 600 450 500 387.5 450 375 375 375 375
5.10 387.5 375 375 375 375 600 600 600 450 500 387.5 450 375 375 375 375
5.11 375 375 375 375 375 600 587.5 587.5 437.5 500 375 437.5 375 375 375 375
5.12 375 375 375 375 375 600 575 575 437.5 475 375 437.5 375 375 375 375
5.13 375 375 375 375 375 587.5 562.5 575 437.5 450 375 437.5 375 375 375 375
5.14 375 375 375 375 375 587.5 550 550 437.5 450 375 437.5 375 375 375 375
5.15 375 375 375 375 375 575 550 550 437.5 450 375 437.5 375 375 375 375
5.16 375 375 375 375 375 562.5 537.5 537.5 425 437.5 375 425 375 375 375 375
5.17 375 375 375 375 375 550 525 525 425 437.5 375 425 375 375 375 375
5.18 375 375 375 375 375 550 525 525 425 437.5 375 425 375 375 375 375
5.19 375 375 375 375 375 537.5 525 525 425 437.5 375 425 375 375 375 375
5.20 375 375 375 375 375 525 525 525 425 425 375 425 375 375 375 375
5.21 375 375 375 375 375 525 512.5 512.5 425 425 375 425 375 375 375 375
5.22 375 375 375 375 375 525 500 512.5 412.5 425 375 412.5 375 375 375 375
5.23 375 375 375 375 375 525 500 500 400 425 375 400 375 375 375 375
5.24 375 375 375 375 375 525 500 500 400 425 375 400 375 375 375 375
5.25 375 375 375 375 375 512.5 487.5 500 400 412.5 375 400 375 375 375 375
5.26 375 375 375 375 375 500 487.5 487.5 400 400 375 400 375 375 375 375
5.27 375 375 375 375 375 500 475 475 400 400 375 400 375 375 375 375
5.28 375 375 375 375 375 500 450 450 400 400 375 400 375 375 375 375
5.29 375 375 375 375 375 500 450 450 400 400 375 400 375 375 375 375
5.30 375 375 375 375 375 487.5 450 450 400 400 375 400 375 375 375 375
5.31 375 375 375 375 375 475 437.5 450 400 400 375 400 375 375 375 375
5.32 375 375 375 375 375 450 437.5 437.5 400 400 375 400 375 375 375 375
5.33 375 375 375 375 375 450 437.5 437.5 387.5 400 375 387.5 375 375 375 375
5.34 375 375 375 375 375 437.5 425 437.5 387.5 387.5 375 387.5 375 375 375 375
5.35 375 375 375 375 375 437.5 425 437.5 375 387.5 375 387.5 375 375 375 375
5.36 375 375 375 375 375 425 425 425 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
5.37 375 375 375 375 375 425 412.5 425 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
5.38 375 375 375 375 375 425 400 425 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
5.39 375 375 375 375 375 425 400 425 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
5.40 375 375 375 375 375 412.5 400 425 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
5.41 375 375 375 375 375 400 400 425 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
5.42 375 375 375 375 375 400 400 412.5 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
5.43 375 375 375 375 375 400 400 400 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
5.44 375 375 375 375 375 400 400 400 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
5.45 375 375 375 375 375 400 387.5 400 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
5.46 375 375 375 375 375 387.5 387.5 400 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
5.47 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 400 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
5.48 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 400 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
5.49 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 400 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
5.50 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 400 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
5.51 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 400 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
5.52 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 400 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
5.53 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 387.5 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
5.54 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 387.5 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
5.55 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 387.5 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
5.56 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
5.57 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
5.58 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
5.59 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
5.60 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375


HOW TO INTERPRET THE DATA
Suppose you have a player with a 4.87 40 yard dash. If that player is a QB, then the score tends to indicate a 450 level player. However, if that player were a DT, that would indcate a 600 level player.

Next...Bench Press.

[stretch]

Bench Press

READ THIS FIRST!!
This data is currently untested and is derived from statistical analysis detailed above.

To get the numbers to line up in a row perfectly there had to be a little fudging, especially at the periphery (really low and really high) due to small sample size at these extremes.

Use these values at your own risk. Not FDIC insured. People can and do lose money.


Bench QB RB FB TE WR C G T P K DE DT ILB OLB CB S
4 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
5 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 400 375 375 375 375 375 375
6 375 375 375 375 400 375 375 375 400 400 375 375 375 375 400 375
7 375 375 375 375 400 375 375 375 400 425 375 375 375 375 400 375
8 375 375 375 375 425 400 375 375 425 437.5 375 375 375 375 400 375
9 400 375 375 375 437.5 400 375 375 450 475 375 375 375 375 412.5 387.5
10 425 400 375 375 450 400 375 375 475 500 375 375 375 387.5 437.5 400
11 450 400 375 375 487.5 400 375 375 500 525 375 375 375 400 450 412.5
12 487.5 412.5 375 375 512.5 400 375 375 525 537.5 375 375 375 400 475 412.5
13 512.5 437.5 375 375 537.5 400 375 375 537.5 575 375 375 375 412.5 525 437.5
14 525 450 375 375 575 400 375 375 575 600 375 375 400 412.5 562.5 450
15 537.5 475 400 400 600 400 375 375 600 600 375 375 400 425 587.5 475
16 575 512.5 400 412.5 600 400 375 375 600 600 375 375 400 437.5 600 500
17 600 525 412.5 412.5 600 400 375 375 600 600 375 375 412.5 450 600 525
18 600 550 425 425 600 412.5 375 375 600 612.5 387.5 375 425 475 600 550
19 600 575 437.5 425 600 412.5 375 400 612.5 612.5 400 375 437.5 500 600 575
20 600 600 475 437.5 600 425 375 400 612.5 625 400 375 450 525 600 587.5
21 600 600 500 450 625 425 400 412.5 612.5 625 400 387.5 475 550 625 600
22 600 600 525 475 625 437.5 412.5 412.5 625 625 412.5 400 487.5 575 625 600
23 612.5 600 537.5 500 625 437.5 425 425 625 625 412.5 400 512.5 587.5 625 600
24 625 600 562.5 512.5 625 450 425 437.5 625 625 437.5 412.5 537.5 600 625 600
25 625 612.5 587.5 525 625 475 437.5 437.5 625 625 437.5 425 562.5 600 625 600
26 625 625 600 550 625 487.5 450 437.5 625 625 450 437.5 575 600 625 600
27 625 625 600 562.5 625 512.5 475 450 625 625 475 450 587.5 600 625 625
28 625 625 600 575 625 537.5 487.5 475 625 625 500 475 587.5 600 625 625
29 625 625 600 587.5 625 550 512.5 500 625 625 512.5 487.5 600 600 625 625
30 625 625 600 600 625 562.5 525 500 625 625 550 512.5 600 625 625 625
31 625 625 612.5 600 625 575 537.5 525 625 625 562.5 537.5 600 625 625 625
32 625 625 625 600 625 587.5 550 550 625 625 575 550 600 625 625 625
33 625 625 625 600 625 587.5 562.5 550 625 625 587.5 562.5 600 625 625 625
34 625 625 625 600 625 600 575 575 625 625 600 575 600 625 625 625
35 625 625 625 600 625 600 575 587.5 625 625 600 587.5 625 625 625 625
36 625 625 625 612.5 625 600 587.5 587.5 625 625 600 600 625 625 625 625
37 625 625 625 625 625 600 600 600 625 625 600 600 625 625 625 625
38 625 625 625 625 625 600 600 600 625 625 600 600 625 625 625 625
39 625 625 625 625 625 600 600 600 625 625 612.5 600 625 625 625 625
40 625 625 625 625 625 625 600 600 625 625 625 600 625 625 625 625
41 625 625 625 625 625 625 600 600 625 625 625 600 625 625 625 625
42 625 625 625 625 625 625 600 600 625 625 625 600 625 625 625 625
43 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625


HOW TO INTERPRET THE DATA
See above.

Next...Agility.

[stretch]

Agility

READ THIS FIRST!!
See Above for warnings

Use these values at your own risk. Not FDIC insured. People can and do lose money.


Agility QB RB FB TE WR C G T P K DE DT ILB OLB CB S
6.72 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 625 625
6.73 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 625 625
6.74 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 625 625
6.75 625 625 625 625 612.5 625 625 625 N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 625 625
6.76 625 625 625 625 612.5 625 625 625 N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 625 625
6.77 625 625 625 625 612.5 625 625 625 N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 625 625
6.78 625 625 625 625 612.5 625 625 625 N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 625 625
6.79 625 625 625 625 612.5 625 625 625 N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 625 625
6.8 625 625 625 625 612.5 625 625 625 N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 600 625
6.81 625 625 625 625 612.5 625 625 625 N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 600 625
6.82 625 625 625 625 612.5 625 625 625 N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 600 625
6.83 625 625 625 625 600 625 625 625 N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 600 625
6.84 625 625 625 625 600 625 625 625 N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 600 625
6.85 625 625 625 625 600 625 625 625 N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 600 625
6.86 625 612.5 625 625 600 625 625 625 N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 600 625
6.87 625 612.5 625 625 600 625 625 625 N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 600 625
6.88 625 612.5 625 625 600 625 625 625 N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 600 625
6.89 625 612.5 625 625 600 625 625 625 N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 600 612.5
6.9 625 612.5 625 625 600 625 625 625 N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 600 612.5
6.91 625 612.5 625 625 600 625 625 625 N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 600 612.5
6.92 625 612.5 625 625 600 625 625 625 N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 600 612.5
6.93 625 612.5 625 625 600 625 625 625 N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 600 612.5
6.94 625 612.5 625 625 600 625 625 625 N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 600 612.5
6.95 625 600 625 625 600 625 625 625 N/A N/A 625 625 625 625 600 600
6.96 625 600 625 625 600 625 625 625 N/A N/A 625 625 625 612.5 600 600
6.97 625 600 625 625 600 625 625 625 N/A N/A 625 625 625 612.5 600 600
6.98 625 600 612.5 625 600 625 625 625 N/A N/A 625 625 625 600 600 600
6.99 625 600 612.5 625 587.5 625 625 625 N/A N/A 625 625 625 600 600 600
7 625 600 612.5 625 587.5 625 625 625 N/A N/A 612.5 625 625 600 587.5 600
7.01 625 600 612.5 625 575 625 625 625 N/A N/A 612.5 625 625 600 587.5 600
7.02 625 600 612.5 625 562.5 625 625 625 N/A N/A 612.5 625 625 600 575 600
7.03 625 600 612.5 625 562.5 625 625 625 N/A N/A 612.5 625 625 600 562.5 600
7.04 625 600 612.5 625 550 625 625 625 N/A N/A 612.5 625 625 600 550 600
7.05 612.5 600 612.5 625 537.5 625 625 625 N/A N/A 612.5 625 625 600 550 600
7.06 612.5 600 612.5 625 537.5 625 625 625 N/A N/A 612.5 625 625 600 550 600
7.07 612.5 600 600 625 537.5 625 625 625 N/A N/A 612.5 625 625 600 537.5 600
7.08 600 600 600 625 525 625 625 625 N/A N/A 600 625 625 600 525 600
7.09 600 600 600 625 525 625 625 625 N/A N/A 600 625 625 600 525 600
7.1 600 600 600 625 525 625 625 625 N/A N/A 600 625 625 600 525 600
7.11 600 600 600 625 512.5 625 625 625 N/A N/A 600 625 625 600 525 600
7.12 600 575 600 625 512.5 625 625 625 N/A N/A 600 625 625 600 525 600
7.13 600 575 600 625 512.5 625 625 625 N/A N/A 600 625 625 600 512.5 587.5
7.14 600 562.5 600 625 500 625 625 625 N/A N/A 600 625 625 600 512.5 587.5
7.15 600 562.5 600 625 500 625 625 625 N/A N/A 600 625 612.5 600 500 575
7.16 600 562.5 600 625 500 625 625 625 N/A N/A 600 625 600 600 500 575
7.17 600 550 600 625 500 625 625 625 N/A N/A 600 625 600 600 500 550
7.18 600 537.5 600 625 487.5 625 625 625 N/A N/A 600 625 600 600 487.5 550
7.19 600 537.5 600 625 487.5 625 625 625 N/A N/A 600 612.5 600 600 487.5 550
7.2 600 537.5 600 625 475 625 625 625 N/A N/A 600 612.5 600 600 475 537.5
7.21 600 525 600 625 450 625 625 625 N/A N/A 600 612.5 600 587.5 450 537.5
7.22 600 525 600 625 450 625 625 625 N/A N/A 600 612.5 600 575 450 525
7.23 600 525 600 625 450 625 625 625 N/A N/A 600 612.5 600 562.5 450 525
7.24 600 525 600 625 450 625 625 625 N/A N/A 600 612.5 600 550 450 525
7.25 587.5 525 600 600 450 625 625 625 N/A N/A 600 612.5 600 550 437.5 525
7.26 587.5 512.5 600 600 450 625 625 625 N/A N/A 600 612.5 600 537.5 437.5 512.5
7.27 587.5 512.5 600 600 437.5 625 625 625 N/A N/A 600 612.5 600 537.5 437.5 512.5
7.28 587.5 500 600 600 437.5 625 625 625 N/A N/A 600 600 600 525 437.5 512.5
7.29 587.5 500 600 600 437.5 625 625 625 N/A N/A 587.5 600 600 525 437.5 500
7.3 587.5 500 600 600 437.5 625 625 625 N/A N/A 587.5 600 600 525 425 500
7.31 575 500 587.5 600 437.5 625 625 625 N/A N/A 587.5 600 600 525 425 500
7.32 575 500 587.5 600 425 625 625 612.5 N/A N/A 587.5 600 600 512.5 425 500
7.33 575 487.5 575 600 425 625 625 612.5 N/A N/A 575 600 600 512.5 425 487.5
7.34 575 487.5 567.5 600 425 625 625 600 N/A N/A 562.5 600 600 512.5 425 487.5
7.35 575 475 550 600 425 625 625 600 N/A N/A 562.5 600 600 500 425 475
7.36 575 450 550 600 425 625 625 600 N/A N/A 562.5 600 600 500 425 450
7.37 562.5 450 550 600 425 625 625 600 N/A N/A 562.5 600 587.5 500 425 450
7.38 562.5 450 550 600 412.5 625 625 600 N/A N/A 550 600 587.5 500 412.5 450
7.39 562.5 450 537.5 600 412.5 625 625 600 N/A N/A 550 600 587.5 487.5 412.5 450
7.4 562.5 450 537.5 600 412.5 625 625 600 N/A N/A 537.5 600 575 475 400 450
7.41 550 450 537.5 600 400 625 625 600 N/A N/A 537.5 600 562.5 450 400 437.5
7.42 550 450 525 600 400 625 625 600 N/A N/A 525 600 550 450 400 437.5
7.43 550 437.5 525 600 400 625 625 600 N/A N/A 525 600 550 450 400 437.5
7.44 550 437.5 525 600 400 625 625 600 N/A N/A 525 600 550 450 400 437.5
7.45 550 437.5 525 600 400 625 625 600 N/A N/A 525 600 537.5 437.5 400 437.5
7.46 550 437.5 525 600 400 625 612.5 600 N/A N/A 525 600 537.5 437.5 400 425
7.47 537.5 437.5 525 600 400 625 612.5 600 N/A N/A 525 587.5 525 437.5 400 425
7.48 537.5 437.5 512.5 587.5 400 625 612.5 600 N/A N/A 512.5 587.5 525 437.5 400 425
7.49 537.5 425 512.5 587.5 400 625 612.5 600 N/A N/A 512.5 587.5 525 437.5 400 425
7.5 537.5 425 512.5 575 400 625 612.5 600 N/A N/A 512.5 587.5 525 437.5 400 425
7.51 537.5 425 500 575 400 625 612.5 587.5 N/A N/A 500 587.5 525 425 387.5 425
7.52 537.5 425 500 550 387.5 625 612.5 587.5 N/A N/A 500 587.5 512.5 425 387.5 425
7.53 525 425 500 550 387.5 625 612.5 562.5 N/A N/A 500 575 512.5 425 387.5 425
7.54 525 425 500 550 375 625 600 562.5 N/A N/A 500 575 500 425 387.5 425
7.55 525 425 500 550 375 625 600 550 N/A N/A 500 562.5 500 425 375 412.5
7.56 512.5 412.5 500 537.5 375 625 600 550 N/A N/A 500 550 500 425 375 412.5
7.57 512.5 412.5 500 537.5 375 612.5 600 537.5 N/A N/A 487.5 550 500 425 375 400
7.58 512.5 412.5 500 525 375 612.5 600 537.5 N/A N/A 487.5 550 487.5 412.5 375 400
7.59 512.5 400 487.5 525 375 612.5 600 525 N/A N/A 487.5 537.5 487.5 400 375 400
7.6 512.5 400 475 525 375 612.5 600 525 N/A N/A 475 537.5 475 400 375 400
7.61 500 400 450 525 375 612.5 600 525 N/A N/A 450 537.5 450 400 375 400
7.62 500 400 450 525 375 612.5 600 512.5 N/A N/A 450 525 450 400 375 400
7.63 500 400 450 525 375 600 600 512.5 N/A N/A 450 525 450 400 375 400
7.64 500 400 450 525 375 600 600 500 N/A N/A 450 525 450 400 375 400
7.65 500 400 450 512.5 375 600 600 500 N/A N/A 450 525 450 400 375 400
7.66 500 400 450 512.5 375 600 600 500 N/A N/A 450 525 437.5 400 375 400
7.67 500 400 437.5 512.5 375 600 600 500 N/A N/A 437.5 525 437.5 400 375 400
7.68 500 400 437.5 500 375 600 600 500 N/A N/A 437.5 512.5 437.5 400 375 400
7.69 500 400 437.5 500 375 600 587.5 487.5 N/A N/A 437.5 512.5 437.5 400 375 400
7.7 500 400 437.5 500 375 600 587.5 475 N/A N/A 437.5 512.5 437.5 400 375 400
7.71 487.5 387.5 437.5 500 375 600 587.5 450 N/A N/A 437.5 500 437.5 387.5 375 387.5
7.72 487.5 387.5 437.5 500 375 600 587.5 450 N/A N/A 437.5 500 437.5 387.5 375 387.5
7.73 487.5 375 437.5 487.5 375 600 562.5 450 N/A N/A 437.5 500 437.5 387.5 375 375
7.74 487.5 375 437.5 487.5 375 600 550 450 N/A N/A 437.5 500 425 387.5 375 375
7.75 475 375 425 475 375 600 550 450 N/A N/A 425 500 425 375 375 375
7.76 475 375 425 450 375 600 550 450 N/A N/A 425 500 425 375 375 375
7.77 475 375 425 450 375 600 525 437.5 N/A N/A 425 487.5 425 375 375 375
7.78 475 375 425 450 375 600 525 437.5 N/A N/A 425 487.5 425 375 375 375
7.79 462.5 375 425 450 375 600 525 437.5 N/A N/A 425 487.5 425 375 375 375
7.8 450 375 425 450 375 600 525 437.5 N/A N/A 425 475 425 375 375 375
7.81 450 375 425 450 375 587.5 525 437.5 N/A N/A 425 450 425 375 375 375
7.82 437.5 375 425 437.5 375 575 512.5 437.5 N/A N/A 425 450 412.5 375 375 375
7.83 437.5 375 425 437.5 375 562.5 512.5 437.5 N/A N/A 425 450 412.5 375 375 375
7.84 437.5 375 425 437.5 375 550 500 437.5 N/A N/A 425 450 400 375 375 375
7.85 437.5 375 412.5 437.5 375 550 500 425 N/A N/A 425 450 400 375 375 375
7.86 437.5 375 412.5 437.5 375 550 500 425 N/A N/A 412.5 450 400 375 375 375
7.87 437.5 375 412.5 437.5 375 537.5 500 425 N/A N/A 412.5 450 400 375 375 375
7.88 425 375 400 437.5 375 525 500 425 N/A N/A 400 437.5 400 375 375 375
7.89 425 375 400 437.5 375 525 500 425 N/A N/A 400 437.5 400 375 375 375
7.9 425 375 400 437.5 375 525 475 425 N/A N/A 400 437.5 400 375 375 375
7.91 425 375 400 437.5 375 525 450 425 N/A N/A 400 437.5 400 375 375 375
7.92 425 375 400 437.5 375 512.5 450 425 N/A N/A 400 437.5 400 375 375 375
7.93 412.5 375 400 425 375 512.5 450 425 N/A N/A 400 437.5 400 375 375 375
7.94 400 375 400 425 375 500 450 425 N/A N/A 400 437.5 400 375 375 375
7.95 400 375 400 425 375 500 450 412.5 N/A N/A 400 437.5 400 375 375 375
7.96 400 375 400 425 375 500 450 412.5 N/A N/A 400 437.5 400 375 375 375
7.97 400 375 400 425 375 500 437.5 412.5 N/A N/A 400 437.5 400 375 375 375
7.98 400 375 400 425 375 487.5 437.5 400 N/A N/A 400 425 387.5 375 375 375
7.99 400 375 400 425 375 487.5 437.5 400 N/A N/A 400 425 387.5 375 375 375
8 400 375 400 425 375 475 437.5 400 N/A N/A 400 425 387.5 375 375 375
8.01 400 375 400 425 375 450 437.5 400 N/A N/A 400 425 387.5 375 375 375
8.02 400 375 400 425 375 450 437.5 400 N/A N/A 400 425 375 375 375 375
8.03 400 375 400 425 375 450 437.5 400 N/A N/A 400 425 375 375 375 375
8.04 400 375 400 425 375 450 437.5 400 N/A N/A 400 425 375 375 375 375
8.05 400 375 400 425 375 437.5 425 400 N/A N/A 400 425 375 375 375 375
8.06 400 375 387.5 425 375 437.5 425 400 N/A N/A 387.5 425 375 375 375 375
8.07 400 375 387.5 425 375 437.5 425 400 N/A N/A 387.5 425 375 375 375 375
8.08 400 375 387.5 412.5 375 437.5 425 400 N/A N/A 387.5 425 375 375 375 375
8.09 400 375 387.5 412.5 375 437.5 425 400 N/A N/A 387.5 425 375 375 375 375
8.1 400 375 387.5 400 375 437.5 425 400 N/A N/A 375 412.5 375 375 375 375
8.11 400 375 375 400 375 425 425 400 N/A N/A 375 412.5 375 375 375 375
8.12 400 375 375 400 375 425 425 400 N/A N/A 375 412.5 375 375 375 375
8.13 400 375 375 400 375 425 425 400 N/A N/A 375 400 375 375 375 375
8.14 400 375 375 400 375 425 425 400 N/A N/A 375 400 375 375 375 375
8.15 400 375 375 400 375 425 425 400 N/A N/A 375 400 375 375 375 375
8.16 400 375 375 400 375 425 425 400 N/A N/A 375 400 375 375 375 375
8.17 400 375 375 400 375 425 412.5 400 N/A N/A 375 400 375 375 375 375
8.18 400 375 375 400 375 412.5 400 400 N/A N/A 375 400 375 375 375 375
8.19 387.5 375 375 400 375 400 400 400 N/A N/A 375 400 375 375 375 375
8.2 387.5 375 375 400 375 400 400 400 N/A N/A 375 400 375 375 375 375
8.21 387.5 375 375 400 375 400 400 400 N/A N/A 375 400 375 375 375 375
8.22 375 375 375 400 375 400 400 400 N/A N/A 375 400 375 375 375 375
8.23 375 375 375 400 375 400 400 400 N/A N/A 375 400 375 375 375 375
8.24 375 375 375 400 375 400 400 400 N/A N/A 375 400 375 375 375 375
8.25 375 375 375 400 375 400 400 400 N/A N/A 375 400 375 375 375 375
8.26 375 375 375 400 375 400 400 387.5 N/A N/A 375 400 375 375 375 375
8.27 375 375 375 400 375 400 400 387.5 N/A N/A 375 400 375 375 375 375
8.28 375 375 375 400 375 400 400 387.5 N/A N/A 375 400 375 375 375 375
8.29 375 375 375 400 375 400 400 387.5 N/A N/A 375 400 375 375 375 375
8.3 375 375 375 400 375 400 400 375 N/A N/A 375 400 375 375 375 375
8.31 375 375 375 400 375 387.5 400 375 N/A N/A 375 400 375 375 375 375
8.32 375 375 375 400 375 387.5 400 375 N/A N/A 375 400 375 375 375 375
8.33 375 375 375 400 375 387.5 400 375 N/A N/A 375 387.5 375 375 375 375
8.34 375 375 375 387.5 375 387.5 400 375 N/A N/A 375 387.5 375 375 375 375
8.35 375 375 375 387.5 375 375 400 375 N/A N/A 375 387.5 375 375 375 375
8.36 375 375 375 387.5 375 375 387.5 375 N/A N/A 375 387.5 375 375 375 375
8.37 375 375 375 387.5 375 375 387.5 375 N/A N/A 375 387.5 375 375 375 375
8.38 375 375 375 375 375 375 387.5 375 N/A N/A 375 387.5 375 375 375 375
8.39 375 375 375 375 375 375 387.5 375 N/A N/A 375 387.5 375 375 375 375
8.4 375 375 375 375 375 375 387.5 375 N/A N/A 375 387.5 375 375 375 375
8.41 375 375 375 375 375 375 387.5 375 N/A N/A 375 375 375 375 375 375
8.42 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 N/A N/A 375 375 375 375 375 375
8.43 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 N/A N/A 375 375 375 375 375 375
8.44 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 N/A N/A 375 375 375 375 375 375
8.45 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 N/A N/A 375 375 375 375 375 375
8.46 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 N/A N/A 375 375 375 375 375 375
8.47 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 N/A N/A 375 375 375 375 375 375
8.48 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 N/A N/A 375 375 375 375 375 375
8.49 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 N/A N/A 375 375 375 375 375 375
8.5 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 N/A N/A 375 375 375 375 375 375


HOW TO INTERPRET THE DATA
See above.

Next...Broad Jump.

[stretch]

Broad Jump

READ THIS FIRST!!
See Above for warnings

Use these values at your own risk. Not FDIC insured. People can and do lose money.


BJump QB RB FB TE WR C G T P K DE DT ILB OLB CB S
78 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 N/A 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
79 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 N/A 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
80 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 375 N/A 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
81 375 375 375 375 375 387.5 387.5 375 N/A 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
82 375 375 375 375 375 387.5 387.5 375 N/A 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
83 375 375 375 375 375 387.5 387.5 387.5 N/A 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
84 375 375 375 375 375 400 387.5 387.5 N/A 375 375 375 375 375 375 375
85 375 375 375 375 375 412.5 400 387.5 N/A 375 375 387.5 375 375 375 375
86 375 375 375 375 375 425 412.5 387.5 N/A 375 375 400 375 375 375 375
87 375 375 375 375 375 425 425 412.5 N/A 375 375 400 375 375 375 375
88 375 375 375 375 375 437.5 437.5 412.5 N/A 375 375 400 375 375 375 375
89 375 375 375 375 375 450 450 425 N/A 375 375 400 375 375 375 375
90 375 375 375 375 375 462.5 475 437.5 N/A 375 375 400 375 375 375 375
91 375 375 375 375 375 475 475 450 N/A 375 375 412.5 375 375 375 375
92 375 375 375 375 375 487.5 487.5 462.5 N/A 375 375 412.5 375 375 375 375
93 387.5 375 375 375 375 500 500 475 N/A 375 375 425 375 375 375 375
94 387.5 375 387.5 387.5 375 512.5 512.5 487.5 N/A 387.5 375 425 387.5 375 375 475
95 387.5 375 387.5 387.5 375 525 525 500 N/A 387.5 375 425 387.5 375 375 475
96 387.5 375 387.5 387.5 375 550 550 500 N/A 387.5 375 437.5 387.5 375 375 475
97 400 375 400 400 375 562.5 562.5 525 N/A 400 387.5 437.5 400 375 375 475
98 412.5 375 412.5 412.5 375 575 575 537.5 N/A 412.5 387.5 450 400 375 375 475
99 412.5 375 412.5 425 400 587.5 587.5 550 N/A 412.5 387.5 462.5 412.5 387.5 375 475
100 425 375 425 425 425 587.5 587.5 562.5 N/A 425 387.5 475 425 387.5 375 475
101 437.5 375 425 425 450 600 600 575 N/A 425 400 487.5 425 400 375 475
102 450 375 450 437.5 475 600 600 587.5 N/A 450 412.5 500 425 400 475 475
103 462.5 375 462.5 450 475 600 600 600 N/A 462.5 412.5 500 425 412.5 475 475
104 475 375 475 462.5 475 600 600 600 N/A 475 425 512.5 450 412.5 475 475
105 487.5 375 487.5 475 487.5 600 600 600 N/A 487.5 425 525 462.5 425 475 475
106 500 387.5 500 487.5 487.5 600 600 600 N/A 500 450 537.5 475 425 475 475
107 512.5 387.5 512.5 500 487.5 612.5 612.5 600 N/A 512.5 450 562.5 487.5 437.5 475 500
108 525 387.5 525 500 487.5 625 625 600 N/A 525 462.5 575 500 450 475 500
109 550 400 550 512.5 487.5 625 625 600 N/A 550 475 587.5 500 462.5 475 500
110 562.5 412.5 562.5 525 487.5 625 625 612.5 N/A 562.5 487.5 600 512.5 475 487.5 537.5
111 575 412.5 575 537.5 487.5 625 625 625 N/A 575 500 600 537.5 487.5 487.5 550
112 587.5 425 587.5 550 487.5 625 625 625 N/A 587.5 500 600 550 500 487.5 567.5
113 600 425 600 562.5 487.5 625 625 625 N/A 600 525 600 562.5 512.5 500 567.5
114 600 450 600 575 525 625 625 625 N/A 600 537.5 600 575 512.5 525 575
115 600 462.5 600 587.5 537.5 625 625 625 N/A 600 550 600 587.5 537.5 537.5 575
116 600 475 600 600 550 625 625 625 N/A 600 562.5 600 587.5 550 550 587.5
117 600 487.5 600 600 562.5 625 625 625 N/A 612.5 575 612.5 600 562.5 562.5 587.5
118 612.5 500 612.5 600 575 625 625 625 N/A 625 587.5 625 600 575 575 600
119 625 512.5 625 600 575 625 625 625 N/A 625 587.5 625 600 587.5 587.5 600
120 625 525 625 600 587.5 625 625 625 N/A 625 600 625 600 587.5 587.5 600
121 625 550 625 600 587.5 625 625 625 N/A 625 600 625 600 600 587.5 600
122 625 562.5 625 600 587.5 625 625 625 N/A 625 600 625 612.5 600 587.5 600
123 625 575 625 600 587.5 625 625 625 N/A 625 600 625 625 600 587.5 600
124 625 587.5 625 612.5 587.5 625 625 625 N/A 625 600 625 625 600 587.5 600
125 625 600 625 625 587.5 625 625 625 N/A 625 600 625 625 600 600 612.5
126 625 600 625 625 587.5 625 625 625 N/A 625 600 625 625 600 600 625
127 625 600 625 625 600 625 625 625 N/A 625 612.5 625 625 625 612.5 625
128 625 600 625 625 600 625 625 625 N/A 625 625 625 625 625 612.5 625
129 625 600 625 625 600 625 625 625 N/A 625 625 625 625 625 612.5 625
130 625 612.5 625 625 612.5 625 625 625 N/A 625 625 625 625 625 612.5 625
131 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 N/A 625 625 625 625 625 625 625
132 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 N/A 625 625 625 625 625 625 625
133 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 N/A 625 625 625 625 625 625 625
134 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 N/A 625 625 625 625 625 625 625
135 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 N/A 625 625 625 625 625 625 625
136 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 625 N/A 625 625 625 625 625 625 625


HOW TO INTERPRET THE DATA
See above.

Lastly...Position Drills

[stretch]

Position Drill

READ THIS FIRST!!
See Above for warnings

Use these values at your own risk. Not FDIC insured. People can and do lose money.


PosDr QB RB FB TE WR C G T P K DE DT ILB OLB CB S
4 375 375 375 375 375 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 375 375 375 375
5 375 375 375 375 375 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 375 375 375 375
6 375 375 375 375 375 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 375 375 375 375
7 375 375 375 375 375 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 375 375 375 375
8 375 387.5 375 375 375 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 375 375 375 375
9 375 400 375 375 375 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 375 375 375 375
10 375 400 375 375 375 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 375 375 375 375
11 375 412.5 387.5 375 375 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 375 375 375 375
12 375 425 387.5 375 375 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 387.5 387.5 375 375
13 375 425 387.5 387.5 375 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 387.5 400 375 375
14 375 437.5 400 387.5 375 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 400 400 375 375
15 375 437.5 412.5 387.5 375 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 400 400 375 375
16 375 437.5 412.5 387.5 375 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 400 400 375 375
17 375 462.5 425 400 375 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 400 400 375 375
18 375 475 425 400 375 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 400 400 387.5 387.5
19 375 487.5 437.5 400 375 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 412.5 412.5 400 387.5
20 375 487.5 437.5 412.5 375 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 412.5 412.5 400 400
21 375 500 450 412.5 375 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 425 425 400 400
22 375 500 462.5 425 387.5 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 425 425 400 400
23 375 512.5 475 425 387.5 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 437.5 437.5 400 400
24 375 525 475 425 387.5 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 437.5 437.5 400 400
25 375 537.5 487.5 425 387.5 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 437.5 437.5 400 400
26 375 550 487.5 437.5 400 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 450 437.5 400 400
27 375 562.5 500 437.5 400 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 462.5 462.5 412.5 412.5
28 375 575 500 437.5 400 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 475 475 425 425
29 375 587.5 512.5 437.5 400 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 487.5 487.5 425 425
30 375 587.5 525 437.5 412.5 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 487.5 487.5 425 425
31 375 600 537.5 450 412.5 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 500 512.5 425 437.5
32 375 600 550 462.5 425 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 512.5 512.5 437.5 437.5
33 375 600 562.5 475 425 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 525 525 437.5 437.5
34 375 600 562.5 487.5 425 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 525 525 437.5 437.5
35 375 600 575 487.5 437.5 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 537.5 537.5 437.5 437.5
36 375 600 587.5 500 437.5 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 562.5 550 450 450
37 375 600 587.5 500 437.5 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 575 575 462.5 462.5
38 375 600 587.5 525 437.5 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 587.5 587.5 475 475
39 375 612.5 600 525 437.5 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 587.5 600 487.5 487.5
40 375 625 600 550 437.5 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 600 600 487.5 487.5
41 375 625 600 550 437.5 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 600 600 500 512.5
42 375 625 600 575 462.5 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 600 600 512.5 512.5
43 375 625 600 575 475 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 600 600 525 525
44 375 625 600 587.5 475 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 600 600 525 525
45 375 625 600 600 487.5 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 600 600 537.5 537.5
46 375 625 600 600 500 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 600 600 562.5 550
47 375 625 600 600 500 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 600 612.5 575 575
48 375 625 612.5 600 512.5 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 587.5 587.5
49 375 625 625 600 512.5 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 600 600
50 375 625 625 600 525 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 600 600
51 375 625 625 600 537.5 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 600 600
52 387.5 625 625 600 537.5 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 600 600
53 400 625 625 612.5 550 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 600 600
54 400 625 625 625 562.5 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 600 600
55 400 625 625 625 562.5 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 600 600
56 400 625 625 625 587.5 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 600 600
57 412.5 625 625 625 587.5 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 600 612.5
58 412.5 625 625 625 600 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
59 412.5 625 625 625 600 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
60 425 625 625 625 600 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
61 425 625 625 625 600 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
62 437.5 625 625 625 600 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
63 437.5 625 625 625 600 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
64 437.5 625 625 625 600 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
65 450 625 625 625 600 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
66 450 625 625 625 600 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
67 462.5 625 625 625 600 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
68 475 625 625 625 600 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
69 487.5 625 625 625 612.5 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
70 487.5 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
71 500 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
72 500 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
73 512.5 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
74 512.5 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
75 525 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
76 525 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
77 525 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
78 537.5 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
79 537.5 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
80 550 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
81 550 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
82 562.5 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
83 575 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
84 587.5 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
85 600 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
86 600 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
87 600 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
88 600 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
89 600 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
90 600 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
91 600 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
92 600 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
93 600 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
94 600 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
95 600 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
96 612.5 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
97 625 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
98 625 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625
99 625 625 625 625 625 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 625 625 625 625


HOW TO INTERPRET THE DATA
See above.

And done.

Let me know if this data is useful by leaving a comment in this thread or sending me a PM.

[garion333]

Bravo, stretch. I look forward to putting these through some drafts.

[stretch]

I've used them in my last two drafts. My draft 2 years ago wasn't bad but this year I nabbed a 35/70 DE in the 2nd round.

[gstelmack]

How does this differ from just using the red/blue/green numbers in-game and their equivalents in Draft Analyzer / Conscriptor?

[stretch]

How does this differ from just using the red/blue/green numbers in-game and their equivalents in Draft Analyzer / Conscriptor?

For the first post (the simple version) probably not much.

For the players that aren't color coded, I think it is very valuable to differentiate between a 425 player and a 550 player (for example).

Great combines are really easy to spot; as are really bad ones. It's the unwashed masses in the middle that I think can be differentiated using the more detailed analysis here.

[Sef0r]

Your forty speed post just highlights how important the forty is to the WR and CB positions, more so than any other position. These positions ratings starts to dip in the milliseconds while others stay pat.

[Ben E Lou]

J.C. Moln (http://www.younglifenorthdekalb.com/woof/ben/playercard.php?playerid=12377) (7) and Glenn Coleman (http://www.younglifenorthdekalb.com/ihof/ben/playercard.php?playerid=12316) (9) told me to tell you to SUCK IT! :D

...and now we have a fascinating cat in the CCFL draft class. Meet Bryce "Noodle-Arm" Strom

http://www.fof-ihof.com/upload/Ben%20E%20Lou/strom.png


http://www.fof-ihof.com/upload/Ben%20E%20Lou/stromcard.png


The ultimate short/medium only guy?

[RedKingGold]

If I were still in CCFL, I'd give my left and right nut for that guy.

[aston217]

What's with the "QB G" in that screenshot, by the way? I don't see that in my game.

Where in the first round did that guy go?

[QuikSand]

What's with the "QB G" in that screenshot, by the way? I don't see that in my game.

Some people use some add-ons with FOF, including graphics to make some of the in-game stuff more meaningful. I don't recall whether the letter grades are part of the Stelmack suite (http://www.gstelmack.com/UtilitySuite/index.htm) (I seem to recall that using a numeric system) but that's the main idea.

[Ben E Lou]

It's part of the Stelmack Suite. Numbers and letters are both options there.


He hasn't been drafted yet.

[dzilla77]

Its part of resource patcher. I think you choose the Icy stuff.

[cankles]

Wow, I've never seen this thread before. Can't believe I missed it. Looks way useful!

[hitmanwa]

What exactly is an outlier?

[Dawgfan19]

In statistics, an outlier is an observation that is numerically distant from the rest of the data.

[Julio Riddols]

An RB with a bench score of 27 but average combine scores otherwise is a good example of an outlier. A lot of these guys are really good at one thing, which generally makes them potentially more valuable overall than a guy who is average or slightly above average across the board. The chances of a guy with similar extreme outlier numbers in at least one category being worthless are very low.

[scorp]

An RB with a bench score of 27 but average combine scores otherwise is a good example of an outlier. A lot of these guys are really good at one thing, which generally makes them potentially more valuable overall than a guy who is average or slightly above average across the board. The chances of a guy with similar extreme outlier numbers in at least one category being worthless are very low.

Aaahhh Dozer McCarthy in OSFL.

[thenewchuckd]

The chances of a guy with similar extreme outlier numbers in at least one category being worthless are very low.

I have a different view. Sometimes this is true but in general an outlier combine score is only indicative that the player will be outstanding at certain bars and not others.

I really think people should start getting away from looking at combine scores ON THEIR OWN and start to take a more global view. I used to look at this Malcpow thread a lot but only when I starting looking more globally did my drafting take a quantum leap. Now I do not even bother coming to this thread.

[QuikSand]

A lot of these guys are really good at one thing, which generally makes them potentially more valuable overall than a guy who is average or slightly above average across the board.

I have a different view. Sometimes this is true but in general an outlier combine score is only indicative that the player will be outstanding at certain bars and not others.

Umm, I agree?

[aston217]

I think there is a slight difference there.

Take the example of the crazy 27-bench Dozer McCarthy from the OSFL, mentioned earlier. This was a guy that had ho-hum, but not bad, combines across the board and a bench that was about as good as it possibly gets. He wasn't just some Power Inside specialist, he was a solid creeper that rose across the board -- and the decent combine plus the extreme outlier cemented that. Goes back to this:


The chances of a guy with similar extreme outlier numbers in at least one category being worthless are very low.


So yes, do look for big-time outliers as indicators of guys who are simply good all around. On the other hand, Malcpow is pretty spot on when he says about the QBs, "even one score outside the constraints can be a bad sign." I think this applies similarly to other positions, maybe not to the same extent. A mid 7.4s guard, for example, who had a very weak dash score -- the agility was red and easily in one of the top brackets, while the dash was green. This guy was not a creeper and just a pass blocking specialist.

The disagreement is just that the chance isn't very low. Even with an extreme outlier, look for other signs to make sure you are actually getting something special and not a one-trick pony. Neither of which would be really bad, I guess -- although if the one-trick pony is a WR with massive courage or an OL who has nothing but BS, those are cases where the utility is going to be pretty limited.

[thenewchuckd]

Umm, I agree?

I think you did not get what I was saying. Aston gets more to the meat of it.

I actually think pure combine drafters are missing the boat. You can be a good drafter if you only look at combines but you are missing a whole other world. It has been proven recently that top value players can have very average combines (think all black). In most multi-player leagues, people can spot those guys now and take them early on. If you are drafting combines only, you will miss these guys and fall behind.

[RedKingGold]

I really don't think anyone drafts purely on combines anymore.

[mau92]

I have a doubt. I saw a RB that ran a 4.44 40 yard dash, but had a bad combine performance, like a 9 bench press. Look at his combines:

Rating Adjusted Solecismic Dash Bench Agility BJ Position Drill
3.50 3.70 20 4.44 9 7.27 9' 3" 11

Look at his bars:
Front Office Football Conscriptor version 1.28.7c (http://www.bigleaguesports.net/blpf/draft/show_player.php?player_id=435)

Is he worthy a try as a late round pick? What do you guys think?

[gstelmack]

Those bars seem to match the combines: he is fast but not much else. What's the question here?

[bulletsponge]

7th round pick maybe. but overall bad combine. id take a flyer on him

[stretch]

I know this thread is long dead but I just got back into FOF after a 2 year layoff and I wanted to answer a couple of questions:

The method I used to derive the data involved creating a CSV file of players with all the same value for every attribute (375, 400, 425, etc. through 625). I then used the FOF 2004 draft file utility to create a draft file for those players, imported it into FOF 2007 and then used GStelmack's Extractor to pull the combine data for the entire class. Wash, rinse, repeat until I had a full draft class for each position and rating.

I then pulled the data into Excel and started analyzing frequency of each combine value for each attribute (how often a bench of 7 for 625 QBs? None).

At the extremes there were some outliers who skewed the data a bit so I had to fudge those out of existence. For example, there was a 475 CB that had a higher Wonderlic than all 3,000 CBs that were 500, 525, and 550 rated.

It looks like there is, very occasionally, a "workout warrior" who has a particular combine value well above (or below in the case of 40 time and agility) his peers with the same value. These are so rare (3 in 1000 or so), however, that if you find one, it's just horrible luck.

At any rate, I'll go dig up the raw, unfudged data and post it here.

[garion333]

This thread is hardly dead, it's still a great resource even if posts aren't flowing.

[MIJB#19]

It looks like there is, very occasionally, a "workout warrior" who has a particular combine value well above (or below in the case of 40 time and agility) his peers with the same value. These are so rare (3 in 1000 or so), however, that if you find one, it's just horrible luck.I'm actually glad it works that way, but it keeps some uncertainty in the game.

[aston217]

That'd be fantastic, stretch. Please do.
(I hope you have TCY by the way -- I suppose an easy way to verify is to see if your 625 BPR players have 100 BPR or only 78)

[Julio Riddols]

If it hasn't been said before, this thread should be a required read for any FOF 2007 player.

[aston217]

+1. This thread has helped me so much over the years, from when I first read it when I started playing MP, to all the different insights and understandings I drew from it over time. Still got it favorited* and refer to it every draft.

Thanks, MalcPow :)

* actually saved a desktop version too, in case it ever disappears on us again ;)

[w24olfpack]

I know this thread is long dead but I just got back into FOF after a 2 year layoff and I wanted to answer a couple of questions:

The method I used to derive the data involved creating a CSV file of players with all the same value for every attribute (375, 400, 425, etc. through 625). I then used the FOF 2004 draft file utility to create a draft file for those players, imported it into FOF 2007 and then used GStelmack's Extractor to pull the combine data for the entire class. Wash, rinse, repeat until I had a full draft class for each position and rating.

I then pulled the data into Excel and started analyzing frequency of each combine value for each attribute (how often a bench of 7 for 625 QBs? None).

At the extremes there were some outliers who skewed the data a bit so I had to fudge those out of existence. For example, there was a 475 CB that had a higher Wonderlic than all 3,000 CBs that were 500, 525, and 550 rated.

It looks like there is, very occasionally, a "workout warrior" who has a particular combine value well above (or below in the case of 40 time and agility) his peers with the same value. These are so rare (3 in 1000 or so), however, that if you find one, it's just horrible luck.

At any rate, I'll go dig up the raw, unfudged data and post it here.

One thing I would look at is the mean and standard deviations of the dataset. I've had some luck with that looking at a 95% interval (mean + 1.96 Stddev) to give myself a confidence interval.

[w24olfpack]

That'd be fantastic, stretch. Please do.
(I hope you have TCY by the way -- I suppose an easy way to verify is to see if your 625 BPR players have 100 BPR or only 78)

Did you have TCY loaded and licensed (Stretch and other).

I've been able to get consistently 90+ with 625 BPR but don't see the 100BPR.

My guess is the 625 to 100 is a correlated but not exact. Not a true ((x-375)/25)*10.

Would still expect some 100's

[aston217]

I don't have TCY loaded and I consistently get 78-79 BPR out of 625. One of the issues with it. I tried installing TCY, but it appears not to work unlicensed (I don't own the game)....which is strange, and makes me feel that maybe there are other issues at play. I mean, surely the draft import function doesn't also check for TCY licenses.

[MalcPow]

Just to pop in here, the original research posted was definitely done on a machine with TCY licensed and installed. Plenty of 100 BPRs in that testing with a 625 value entered. You definitely want the X-factor setting off for this kind of work.

Without having looked too closely at the work stretch did, I think it's clear he took the time to peel the curtain back even further in the data he displayed. Good stuff.

[zbuckley]

Just to pop in here, the original research posted was definitely done on a machine with TCY licensed and installed. Plenty of 100 BPRs in that testing with a 625 value entered. You definitely want the X-factor setting off for this kind of work.

Without having looked too closely at the work stretch did, I think it's clear he took the time to peel the curtain back even further in the data he displayed. Good stuff.
when does the FOF7 version with combine accuracy with a couple different settings :)

[zbuckley]

Once again the single greatest thread in FOF. I'm very curious to see how the combine accuracy with screw with breakpoints you could bank on.

[aston217]

This thread was truly the holy grail. Its many secrets and truths laid mysterious to me for years while people slowly peeled back the layers for me. One could say this thread was...very underrated.

[sjshaw]

Let's do a Kickstarter campaign to get MalcPow to update this thread for FOF7. :)

I'm wondering if a QB with a bench <10 is automatically garbage in this version too.

[w24olfpack]

FOF 7 - Initial Draft testing - Front Office Football Central (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=87986)

Started it. Just got to have time to finish it.
Probably after first of the year.

I can say that 50 to me seems to be about the right setting.
75 and 100 are too accurate
0 an 25 are a little too squirrely.

50 looks like about what we've seen before.

[Ben E Lou]

I just started doing a new pull for every draftee in the CCFL that, it turns out, is really highlighting how frequently FOF creates players with combines that are all at or slightly above the bottom of the constraints. Here's a great example. I'm using the following as my DE constraints:

dash: 4.85
bench: 27
Agility: 7.60
BrJu: 106

so in the late 6th, I just drafted this guy from the bottom of those with possible decent static bars (40-74 PRS and 21-55 PunHit by my scouts):
LDE Irv Schembechler Player Details (http://www.younglifenorthdekalb.com/ccfl/ben/playercard.php?playerid=33041)

Check out the list of near-matches and how incredibly close they are to him in combines:

2045 Amateur Draft Thread (http://www.younglifenorthdekalb.com/ccfl/forum/showthread.php?t=6537&p=33174&viewfull=1#post33174)

And now that I'm looking at this, it doesn't appear to be unusual at all.

[Dutch]

Ben, that Amateur Draft thread is fantastic. Wow!

[Ben E Lou]

Ben, that Amateur Draft thread is fantastic. Wow!Thanks. That's probably the feature I'm most proud of to date. It's actually not that hard to do with vbulletin. I'm piggybacking on Conscriptor's make_pick function, since I wanted it to do stuff at the instant every pick was made. So I added some auto-posting code into that function. That part was relatively easy. The part I'm proud of is the formula I created to identify the closest combine matches in league history. I'm looking at the differences in scores and using the possible range of each combine at the position in question, so that they're all equally weighted. That part wasn't easy. And I loves me some math.

[MIJB#19]

That looks very nice, Ben.

[garion333]

Thread isn't working for me. Seems the whole forums isn't up atm.

/jealous

[Ben E Lou]

Thread isn't working for me. Seems the whole forums isn't up atm.

/jealousI am in the middle of a forum upgrade right now.

[garion333]

So, you're not only sharing it with Dutch? ;)

[Sharkn20]

What is the equivalency of 106 in the conscriptor for the broad jump?

[Subby]

What is the equivalency of 106 in the conscriptor for the broad jump?
106 inches = 8'10".

[Ben E Lou]

Thread isn't working for me. Seems the whole forums isn't up atm.

/jealousForum upgrade is complete now.

[WheelsVT]

Ben, that Amateur Draft thread is fantastic. Wow!

+1 that's some awesome.

[Sharkn20]

106 inches = 8'10".

Thanks man :)

What is the formula??

[garion333]

12 inches to 1 foot

8 * 12 = 96

96 + 10 = 106

Edit: I forget you're used to metric.

8'10" = eight feet and ten inches

2'7" = two feet and seven inches

There are 12 inches to a foot. So multiply the feet by 12 then add the inches.

[Sharkn20]

12 inches to 1 foot

8 * 12 = 96

96 + 10 = 106

Edit: I forget you're used to metric.

8'10" = eight feet and ten inches

2'7" = two feet and seven inches

There are 12 inches to a foot. So multiply the feet by 12 then add the inches.

Oh my God I do need a Degree for this... :popcorn:

[QuikSand]

http://www.fof-ihof.com/upload/QuikSand/perhaps.jpg

[Ben E Lou]

-Don't draft QBs with a bench lower than 10Just did a check on a bunch of FOF7 draft classes using PlayerTracker. This is still pretty much gospel.

Bench press of 10 or higher (4656 game-generated FOF7 QBs examined):

5.67% made it to 50/50 or better (264 out of 4656)
3.09% made it to 60/60 or better (144 out of 4656)
1.74% made it to 70/70 or better (81 out of 4656)

But when the Bench is 9 or lower, but not zero (4672 game-generated FOF7 QBs examined):

.30% made it to 50/50 or better (14 out of 4672)
.06% made it to 60/60 or better (3 out of 4672)
0 made it to 70/70 or better (0 out of 4672)

Interesting also that the overall totals (4656 vs. 4672) are SO close. I wonder if that sort of things holds true across all positions: that it's set to generate exactly the same number of guys above and below the constraints.

Sure, some of the "Below 10" guys might become decent game managers rated under 50, but the numbers don't seem to justify bothering with drafting them. Checking an active draft, for example, the FOOL's current draft class has 59 QBs. 30 have a bench of 10 or better, and 27 (not counting combine skippers) are 9 or worse. I don't know that 30 QBs ever get taken in a draft. (I just checked the CCFL, and highest ever there in 36 seasons has been 23.) So it would seem that simply ignoring guys under 10 is the way to go. You're roughly 20 times more likely to pick a 50/50 guy out of a hat, without looking at ANYTHING else, if you only pick from the "10 or better" hat.

[Ben E Lou]

I wonder if that sort of things holds true across all positions: that it's set to generate exactly the same number of guys above and below the constraints.Nope. I just checked the 7.60 constraint for FB agility. It's creating way more guys at or below 760 (3850) than above it (1648). Just a quirk of QBs and bench press, evidently.

[nickelback]

Maybe I missed it but does anyone know what intelligence was set at for these studies?

[burnum]

Does all the information from this thread still apply to FOF9?

[johnnyshaka]

I would say no simply because there are new combine scores in FOF9 and, per the help file, the combine scores in FOF9 correlate to different ratings than they used to in previous versions.