Dog kills cat, cat owner shoots dog, dog owner shoots 5 people.

[Noop]

LENOIR, N.C. -- The Caldwell County Sheriff's Office and state agents are investigating after five people were shot, one fatally, Wednesday night.

The shooting began around 11 p.m. at two homes on Grandin Road near Blue Creek Road in an area called Kings Creek, north of Lenoir.

Officials say it started as an argument when one man’s dog killed his neighbor’s cat. The neighbor then shot the dog, prompting the dog’s owner to shoot his 50-year-old neighbor and the neighbor’s 8-year-old daughter. They are in fair and good condition, respectively.

"My daughter was across the road,” said Tammie Roberts, a neighbor of the shooter. “When she walked across the road, she heard the first gunshot."

"It was very terrifying hearing all the gunshots," she added, saying her family took cover.

When sheriff’s deputies came out to investigate, the man who shot the father and daughter began shooting at them. One deputy was hit multiple times and was flown to Carolinas Medical Center for treatment. He is expected to be released Friday.

Another deputy was hit in the arm. He was treated at a nearby hospital and released.

Deputies eventually moved in on the shooter, and more shots were fired, resulting in the suspect’s death. Sheriff's officials believe he was struck in the gunfire.

Deputy B.J. Fore says this incident was a painful reminder of other tragic events of the past year.

"We've had six officers shot over the last eight months," he said.

Two Caldwell County sheriff's deputies were shot on Sept. 19, 2008 while responding to a 911 hang-up call. Deputy Adam Klutz was killed in that shooting. Eight days earlier, two other deputies were shot serving a warrant in the Happy Valley area, near Boone. Both of those deputies survived.

No names have been released in the incident.

http://www.news14.com/Default.aspx?ArID=609832

[Eaglesfan27]

When I first glanced at the title, I thought it said the dog shot 5 people and was wondering how the heck that happened.

[SackAttack]

Well, technically, the dog owner shot four people.

His death was the fifth, and he probably didn't turn the gun on himself.

[Noop]

Must have been one hell of a dog.

[SackAttack]

Deputies eventually moved in on the shooter, and more shots were fired, resulting in the suspect’s death. Sheriff's officials believe he was struck in the gunfire.

Also. I, uh...do believe that's generally the point of gunfire. Either to hit the target, or to make them stop shooting at YOU.

If you fail to accomplish either objective, you probably shouldn't be trusted with a gun.

[DataKing]

Dude, this is pretty f*cked up right here.

[cuervo72]

Needs a diagram.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I think it's fair to say that if the cat would have just minded his own business, none of this would have occurred.

[Danny]

At least in the end, the only one who died was the one who deserved it.

[Kodos]

At least in the end, the only one who died was the one who deserved it.

+1

[Sun Tzu]

Damn hillbillies.

[Noop]

So does the guy who shoot the dog deserve to go to jail?

[PackerFanatic]

When I first glanced at the title, I thought it said the dog shot 5 people and was wondering how the heck that happened.

Same here.

[Cringer]

Why did the cat deserve it?

[Butter]

Effin' cats ruin everything.

[Pumpy Tudors]

This is pretty hardcore. All I have to add is that I sat on a plane next to a guy from Lenoir, NC, last Friday. He was planning to spend the next two months in Louisiana, though, so I'm reasonably sure that he had nothing to do with this shooting.

And neither did I. Really. I didn't shoot anybody.

[Kodos]

So does the guy who shoot the dog deserve to go to jail?

He deserves some sort of punishment, be it a fine, probation, or a short sentence in jail.

[Lathum]

So does the guy who shoot the dog deserve to go to jail?

I think we need more information to determine that. If the dog was off it's leash and in the cat owners yard then as long as the weapon was licensed, etc... I think he has every right to shoot the dog.

[Noop]

He deserves some sort of punishment, be it a fine, probation, or a short sentence in jail.

Well I am not sure if the legal system sees it the same as me but he is responsible for everything that happened isn't he? If he does not shoot the dog that man does not go ape shit. I would hope he gets a lengthy prison sentence but that's if they see it the way I do.

[Noop]

I think we need more information to determine that. If the dog was off it's leash and in the cat owners yard then as long as the weapon was licensed, etc... I think he has every right to shoot the dog.

This is interesting but what if the dog was not a threat to him? And how did the dog get in his yard?

[Danny]

He is responsible for shooting the dog, whatever punishment is standard for that he should get. And as Lathum pointed out, if the dog was on his property that be no punishment. He is not responsible for the owner of the dog going insane and shooting and potentially killing him, his 8 year old daughter and multiple police officers.

[Lathum]

Well I am not sure if the legal system sees it the same as me but he is responsible for everything that happened isn't he? If he does not shoot the dog that man does not go ape shit. I would hope he gets a lengthy prison sentence but that's if they see it the way I do.

umm, or if the guy was more responsible for his dog it wouldn't have killed the cat.

Like I said, I don't think there is enough info to determine fault, and I am pretty sure the legal system won't see it your way.

[Kodos]

Shooting the dog was wrong, but not on the same level as escalating things to trying to kill humans.

[Lathum]

This is interesting but what if the dog was not a threat to him? And how did the dog get in his yard?

Like I said need more info. Maybe neither yard has a fence? And obviously the dog is an aggressive creature.

[Kodos]

Yeah, if the dog is on your property and seems to be a threat (like if he just killed the cat in your yard), I think shooting the dog is then warranted. Especially if the 8 year old was threatened by the dog in any way.

[Butter]

Well I am not sure if the legal system sees it the same as me but he is responsible for everything that happened isn't he? If he does not shoot the dog that man does not go ape shit. I would hope he gets a lengthy prison sentence but that's if they see it the way I do.

I thought you were going to law school?

[Noop]

I thought you were going to law school?

Jesus H. Christ. Really? I was asking a question and gave my thoughts so what does that have to do with anything? I am also getting a masters degree in human resources want me to talk about your companies hiring practices?

[Noop]

Like I said need more info. Maybe neither yard has a fence? And obviously the dog is an aggressive creature.

I agree with the first statement. The second is subjective no?

[Lathum]

Noop, I don't think the police, courts, etc... would look at the cat owner as the catalyst for the incident because he shot the dog.

I think they would ask the question " Why didn't you pick up the phone and call 911 once a weapon became involved? "

[Noop]

Noop, I don't think the police, courts, etc... would look at the cat owner as the catalyst for the incident because he shot the dog.

I think they would ask the question " Why didn't you pick up the phone and call 911 once a weapon became involved? "

Yeah I agree. From my perspective it seems like the dog shooter could have handled it better that's all.

[Lathum]

I agree with the first statement. The second is subjective no?

How can you say that?

The dog killed another animal, which means it is either trained to do that or it is an aggressive creature. I don't know if you grew up around animals but despite popular belief, cats and dogs don't automatically fight.

again, operating with very limited info, but if the dog killed the cat I would think it capable of attacking a child.

[Kodos]

It's amazing how many times one guy can make bizarre arguments.

[sterlingice]

When I first glanced at the title, I thought it said the dog shot 5 people and was wondering how the heck that happened.

I also saw that at a quick glance :)

SI

[sterlingice]

Jesus H. Christ. Really? I was asking a question and gave my thoughts so what does that have to do with anything? I am also getting a masters degree in human resources want me to talk about your companies hiring practices?

:D

SI

[King of New York]

I'm going to get a new dog next week.

[Note to self: remember to ask for a breed that does not eat cats, and that is also bulletproof.]

[Lathum]

Yeah I agree. From my perspective it seems like the dog shooter could have handled it better that's all.

he should have called the police but for all we know the dog turned on the girl, probably not but we don't know.

[Noop]

It's amazing how many times one guy can make bizarre arguments.

Meh. It's an opinion so what if its not in step with yours, want to continue to act superior?

[DanGarion]

Well I am not sure if the legal system sees it the same as me but he is responsible for everything that happened isn't he? If he does not shoot the dog that man does not go ape shit. I would hope he gets a lengthy prison sentence but that's if they see it the way I do.
Let's take it one step before that, if the dog didn't kill the cat none of this would have happened. So that makes your point moot.

[DanGarion]

He is responsible for shooting the dog, whatever punishment is standard for that he should get. And as Lathum pointed out, if the dog was on his property that be no punishment. He is not responsible for the owner of the dog going insane and shooting and potentially killing him, his 8 year old daughter and multiple police officers.

Yeah I think this is where we have to look at the criminal side "he shot a dog" and the civil side. He'd be only guilty of shooting a dog criminally, but I'm sure there are some additional things he could be gone after for on the civil case... But I'm not a lawyer so what do I know...

[Kodos]

Meh. It's an opinion so what if its not in step with yours, want to continue to act superior?

Yes, please.

[Butter]

Jesus H. Christ. Really? I was asking a question and gave my thoughts so what does that have to do with anything? I am also getting a masters degree in human resources want me to talk about your companies hiring practices?

Point is you said "I am not sure if the legal system sees it the same way as me"... I would think with your schooling that you should be pretty dang sure that it will NOT see it that way.

[Noop]

Let's take it one step before that, if the dog didn't kill the cat none of this would have happened. So that makes your point moot.

I think Lathum summed it up best. Need more information. I still think the dog shooter could have done what Lathum said call the police or something else instead of shooting the dog. However if the dog was attacking his daughter then yes its understandable but the article doesn't mention that.

More information is needed. I was making an assumption without any (much) information my bad.

[Noop]

Point is you said "I am not sure if the legal system sees it the same way as me"... I would think with your schooling that you should be pretty dang sure that it will NOT see it that way.

Not in law school right now.

[Kodos]

I think a lot of people in the heat of the moment might shoot a neighbor's dog if that dog had just killed their cat. Much more understandable than escalating to trying to kill people for shooting your dog.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Regarding Noop's comment about the dog shooter being responsible for everything, I would like to add a thought to that. I think we need to apply reasonable subsequent action to determine whether he's responsible. OK, yes, the dog owner would get upset, but is it reasonable for his next action to shoot several people? It's questionable that it's even reasonable for him to shoot the guy who shot his dog, but there's certainly no related reason for him to shoot the neighbor and the neighbor's daughter. And if you shoot somebody's dog, you can't reasonably expect them to go on a rampage and randomly shoot people.

So, in my opinion, the guy who shot the dog is not responsible for everything. It's a huge leap in logic to suggest that the dog owner shot a little girl because an unrelated man shot his dog. The dog owner shot her because he had some other problem, and the dog owner should be responsible for that.

[sabotai]

The dog killed another animal, which means it is either trained to do that or it is an aggressive creature.

These are not the only possibilities. Just because the dog killed the cat does not mean the dog was the aggressor. A cat is just as likely to attack a dog as a dog is to attack a cat. The dog could have simply been defending itself.

[JediKooter]

I heard it was some guy named Mike Vick that shot the dog.

[Noop]

Regarding Noop's comment about the dog shooter being responsible for everything, I would like to add a thought to that. I think we need to apply reasonable subsequent action to determine whether he's responsible. OK, yes, the dog owner would get upset, but is it reasonable for his next action to shoot several people? It's questionable that it's even reasonable for him to shoot the guy who shot his dog, but there's certainly no related reason for him to shoot the neighbor and the neighbor's daughter. And if you shoot somebody's dog, you can't reasonably expect them to go on a rampage and randomly shoot people.

So, in my opinion, the guy who shot the dog is not responsible for everything. It's a huge leap in logic to suggest that the dog owner shot a little girl because an unrelated man shot his dog. The dog owner shot her because he had some other problem, and the dog owner should be responsible for that.

Again operating under the what if scenario what if this guy had an attachment to his dog? What if it reminded him of his youth or something? Based some of the comments from the Michael Vick thread people love their dogs. Why is it not possible for this man to love his dog like it was child?

Again its a what if...

[Bad-example]

If you shoot someone's pet, you are a fool of the highest order if you don't think there is a fair chance you will be shot by the pet's owner. I'm not saying you deserve to be shot, but if you are surprised by returning fire you are a moron.

[Kodos]

Again operating under the what if scenario what if this guy had an attachment to his dog? What if it reminded him of his youth or something? Based some of the comments from the Michael Vick thread people love their dogs. Why is it not possible for this man to love his dog like it was child?

Again its a what if...

I don't care if he is married to the dog--he cannot be justified when he starts shooting people over it.

[Noop]

I don't care if he is married to the dog--he cannot be justified when he starts shooting people over it.

This proved what I already thought about you. Hypocrite.

[I. J. Reilly]

Thank God everyone had their gun with them, things might have gotten out of hand otherwise.

[TCY Junkie]

I don't care if he is married to the dog--he cannot be justified when he starts shooting people over it.

Just because it can't be justified doesn't mean you have a better chance of hitting the lottery than getting shot if you shoot someones dog. After that, I don't want to take the odds of him being civil.

[Noop]

Thank God everyone had their gun with them, things might have gotten out of hand otherwise.

You want to ban the owner ship of guns?

[Lathum]

If you shoot someone's pet, you are a fool of the highest order if you don't think there is a fair chance you will be shot by the pet's owner. I'm not saying you deserve to be shot, but if you are surprised by returning fire you are a moron.

I have no kids and other then those close in my life I love my dog more than anything. I can say 100% I wouldn't return fire in that situation.

[Kodos]

This proved what I already thought about you. Hypocrite.

So you're arguing that he IS justified for shooting people, including a little girl, over a dog?

[Lathum]

I predict this thread gets ugly soon

[Noop]

So you're arguing that he IS justified for shooting people, including a little girl, over a dog?

I didn't say that hypocrite.

[CU Tiger]

How can you say that?

The dog killed another animal, which means it is either trained to do that or it is an aggressive creature. I don't know if you grew up around animals but despite popular belief, cats and dogs don't automatically fight.

again, operating with very limited info, but if the dog killed the cat I would think it capable of attacking a child.


You are making assinine assumptions without fact.
For all we know the dog is a 200lb mastiff and perfectly loveable was laying on his own proch taking a nap and the cat attacked him, he plafully snapped back and bit the cat in half...

My wife used to have a basset hound (think flash from dukees of hazzard) her grandmothe had a toy chihuahua...they were playing together and the basset hound bit the toys head clean off....it was totally innocent just a huge size difference....

But to suggest the dodg is obviously an evil creature is a bit of a reach


Let's take it one step before that, if the dog didn't kill the cat none of this would have happened. So that makes your point moot.

And if thee cat doesn't enter the dogs yard it does not die....and if the cat owner did not have a cat it would not have entered the dogs yard....its all the cat owners fault.

:D

[I. J. Reilly]

You want to ban the owner ship of guns?

I would be interested in hearing the “guns prevent crime” meme one more time.

[Passacaglia]

This proved what I already thought about you. Hypocrite.

Wait, so you think he CAN be justified for shooting people? WTF?

[Noop]

I would be interested in hearing the “guns prevent crime” meme one more time.

I think we should keep the guns and get rid of the bullets that way we have more clubbing.

[Bad-example]

I have no kids and other then those close in my life I love my dog more than anything. I can say 100% I wouldn't return fire in that situation.

Same here. Still, if you shoot someone's pet and are surprised when they shoot you, you really are too dumb to live.

[Noop]

Wait, so you think he CAN be justified for shooting people? WTF?

I didn't say that at all nor was I implying that.

[Passacaglia]

I didn't say that at all nor was I implying that.

Okay. So what's hypocritical about Kodos's statement?

[sterlingice]

I predict this thread gets ugly soon

Which is quite disappointing because it could have been a fun thread. No one died (except a dog) and both major pets were involved...

SI

[Noop]

Okay. So what's hypocritical about Kodos's statement?

Oh ok now I get it you're defending your friend. That's cool but my comment to that bitch has nothing to do with this thread but merely a series of thread in which he likes to say things that over time do not add up.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Again operating under the what if scenario what if this guy had an attachment to his dog? What if it reminded him of his youth or something? Based some of the comments from the Michael Vick thread people love their dogs. Why is it not possible for this man to love his dog like it was child?

Again its a what if...
But is it reasonable to expect the dog owner to shoot anyone besides the man who shot his dog? If I were to hurt your dog or your brother or your grandmother, surely you would come after me, and that would make sense. Now, if you went after me, my neighbor, the assistant manager at Chick-Fil-A, and Mehmet Okur because I hurt your dog or relative, well, I think you've got to take the blame for some of that.

[Lathum]

You are making assinine assumptions without fact.
For all we know the dog is a 200lb mastiff and perfectly loveable was laying on his own proch taking a nap and the cat attacked him, he plafully snapped back and bit the cat in half...



:D

I think I was VERY clear in saying we need more information and everything was an asumption.

I was operating under the assumption the dog was in the other owners yard, I apologize if I wasn't clear on that point. The overtone of the article IMO is the dog attacked the cat, but again, my interpretation.

[Kodos]

I didn't say that hypocrite.

By all means: spell out how I'm being a hyprocrite. I'm quite interested. :popcorn:

[Passacaglia]

Oh ok now I get it you're defending your friend. That's cool but my comment to that bitch as nothing to do with this thread but merely a series of thread in which he likes to say things that over time do not add up.

I don't know Kodos. I just don't get how saying that shooting people is unjustified is something that deserves an insult. But hey, if you guys have some history, whatevs.

[Noop]

But is it reasonable to expect the dog owner to shoot anyone besides the man who shot his dog? If I were to hurt your dog or your brother or your grandmother, surely you would come after me, and that would make sense. Now, if you went after me, my neighbor, the assistant manager at Chick-Fil-A, and Mehmet Okur because I hurt your dog or relative, well, I think you've got to take the blame for some of that.

I don't agree with him hurting people at all. I don't think he should have shoot at the guy who shot his dog either but what I think and what he was thinking are two totally different things. There were a lot of bad decisions made that made the situation much worse then it should have been.

[Noop]

By all means: spell out how I'm being a hyprocrite. I'm quite interested. :popcorn:

Because you are a hypocrite.

[Kodos]

Because you are a hypocrite.


Judges will love your skills at presenting a logical argument.

[Kodos]

I think I've figured it out. I have advocated killing GIFs in the Cool Images thread. Now, I am coming out against killing. Voila, I AM A HYPOCRITE!

[Kodos]

I don't know Kodos. I just don't get how saying that shooting people is unjustified is something that deserves an insult. But hey, if you guys have some history, whatevs.

Thanks for having my back, BFF!

[DanGarion]

I don't think the death of anything should result in the death of anything more. Just because you kill my ***** doesn't give me any right to kill your *****.

[BYU 14]

I think the overall moral is
Idiots + Guns = Bad

[Passacaglia]

Thanks for having my back, BFF!

Ssh! I just told him I don't know you!! He might be on to us now!

[CU Tiger]

btw I WOULD shoot back if someone shot my dog.....I would not shoot an 8year old girl..but an adult shoots my dog intentionall I would put a bullet in thier head....of course if my dog flipped and they were protecting themselves that would be different...but if he was minding his business...eating their cat and they shot him...BANG

[Cringer]

Holy crap. After reading through this thread I am not sure if I want to shot most of you or just shoot myself to end the pain.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I don't agree with him hurting people at all. I don't think he should have shoot at the guy who shot his dog either but what I think and what he was thinking are two totally different things. There were a lot of bad decisions made that made the situation much worse then it should have been.
Regardless of what anyone else thinks about his actions, it is not reasonable to expect that he will shoot innocent people because his dog got shot. In my mind, here is the limit of what's reasonable:

Cat owner shoots dog. Cat owner has created an environment in which he may be shot and his property may get damaged.

That's it. The cat owner has not created a reasonable environment in which innocent people get shot. Again, this is just my opinion, and I can't say how the law would view it. To me, it just seems that you can only be responsible for the reasonable (and I keep using that word intentionally) results of your actions. The cat owner did not bring the innocent people into the situation unless they were directly in the line of fire. If that is the case, then I agree he put them in danger and is responsible. If they were not in the line of fire and only got shot because the dog owner went nuts, their injuries are totally on the dog owner. Yes, the dog owner was unwillingly put into a rage, but that doesn't give him the right to take that rage out on whatever or whomever he wishes.

[Lathum]

btw I WOULD shoot back if someone shot my dog.....I would not shoot an 8year old girl..but an adult shoots my dog intentionall I would put a bullet in thier head....

So avenging your dog would be worth a lengthy jail sentence?

[Noop]

Pumpy I am not sure what you're getting at? I agree with you for the most part.

[gstelmack]

The moral of the story is that cat owners need to stop letting their cats wander the neighborhood...

[sabotai]

I don't think the death of anything should result in the death of anything more. Just because you kill my ***** doesn't give me any right to kill your *****.

I love Mad Libs!!!

Ok, looking for 2 nouns, obviously, so I will answer with "banana" and "paper shredder".

"I don't think the death of anything should result in the death of anything more. Just because you kill my banana doesn't give me any right to kill your paper shredder."

LOL!!!

[Pumpy Tudors]

Pumpy I am not sure what you're getting at? I agree with you for the most part.
Call me a puddle of goo, but I was under the impression that you were willing to pin responsibility for the entire situation on the guy who shot the dog. I believe you even said that you would want him to get a lengthy prison sentence, and I didn't think it was only because he shot the dog. I inferred that you advocated a prison sentence because he shot the dog and caused a domino effect that led to several other people being shot as well.

Or am I wrong?

[Pumpy Tudors]

I love Mad Libs!!!

Ok, looking for 2 nouns, obviously, so I will answer with "banana" and "paper shredder".

"I don't think the death of anything should result in the death of anything more. Just because you kill my banana doesn't give me any right to kill your paper shredder."

LOL!!!
this is pretty much epic

[Noop]

Call me a puddle of goo, but I was under the impression that you were willing to pin responsibility for the entire situation on the guy who shot the dog. I believe you even said that you would want him to get a lengthy prison sentence, and I didn't think it was only because he shot the dog. I inferred that you advocated a prison sentence because he shot the dog and caused a domino effect that led to several other people being shot as well.

Or am I wrong?

No I wondered if a judge would make the cat owner share some blame in what happened. Kind of like if I start a fight in a club and during the melee someone broke their arm I could be held responsible.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Well I am not sure if the legal system sees it the same as me but he is responsible for everything that happened isn't he? If he does not shoot the dog that man does not go ape shit. I would hope he gets a lengthy prison sentence but that's if they see it the way I do.
Then I somehow grossly misread this.

[BrianD]

Is it weird that someone shooting one of my beloved pets wouldn't even make me think of looking for a gun?

[Lathum]

Is it weird that someone shooting one of my beloved pets wouldn't even make me think of looking for a gun?

no

[Noop]

Then I somehow grossly misread this.

No I tend not to make well thought out statements

[TCY Junkie]

No I tend not to make well thought out statements

I completely understood you.

[KWhit]

Is it weird that someone shooting one of my beloved pets wouldn't even make me think of looking for a gun?

Not weird at all. I think that is the perfectly reasonable, rational response.

[KWhit]

btw I WOULD shoot back if someone shot my dog.....I would not shoot an 8year old girl..but an adult shoots my dog intentionall I would put a bullet in thier head....of course if my dog flipped and they were protecting themselves that would be different...but if he was minding his business...eating their cat and they shot him...BANG

niiiiiiiiice.

[Pumpy Tudors]

No I tend not to make well thought out statements
Well, if you say so. I can neither agree nor disagree with that point.

Speaking for myself, I think I'm better suited to posting stupid jokes, pictures of myself, and bad picks in hockey drafts. Debating seriously on the internet just ain't my thing. No harm done!

[Kodos]

Maybe you can photoshop your face onto a picture of Michael Vick executing an underperforming dog. ;)

[JonInMiddleGA]

I was just wondering where the part about the location of the dog's attack on the cat came from.

Here's the Charlotte Observer version (http://www.charlotteobserver.com/breaking/story/749753.html) of the story but it also doesn't say where that happened either.

Around 11 p.m. Wednesday night, the sheriff's office says, a man's pit bull dog attacked and killed a neighbor's cat, and the cat's owner responded by shooting and killing the dog. Then, authorities say, the dog's owner got into an altercation with the neighbor, shooting him and his daughter.

A different version of the story (http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1545729.html) by the same writer appears in the RaleighNews-Observer and adds this detail
Neighbors told reporters at the scene that the dispute actually goes back several months, when the dog bit a girl in the neighborhood.

[flounder]

How much time passed between the cat getting killed and the guy shooting the dog? If the dog was in the process of killing the cat, I don't have a problem with the guy shooting it. If it was later, shooting the dog was pretty reckless.

Either way it doesn't excuse the dog owner from flipping out.

[BrianD]

New information which shouldn't be news:
1. The dog that killed the cat was a pit bull.
2. A guy who is willing to shoot a neighbor family feels the need to have a "man's dog" and isn't bright enough to train it properly.

[Lathum]

I was just wondering where the part about the location of the dog's attack on the cat came from.

Here's the Charlotte Observer version (http://www.charlotteobserver.com/breaking/story/749753.html) of the story but it also doesn't say where that happened either.

Around 11 p.m. Wednesday night, the sheriff's office says, a man's pit bull dog attacked and killed a neighbor's cat, and the cat's owner responded by shooting and killing the dog. Then, authorities say, the dog's owner got into an altercation with the neighbor, shooting him and his daughter.

A different version of the story (http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1545729.html) by the same writer appears in the RaleighNews-Observer and adds this detail
Neighbors told reporters at the scene that the dispute actually goes back several months, when the dog bit a girl in the neighborhood.

I think it's pretty clear there was speculation only about the dogs location.

Boy am I shocked it was a pitbull that had an aggressive history. Like I said earlier, the dog was probably either aggressive or trained to attack. I would be very surprised if the pitbull was on it's own property when this happened.

[Radii]

New information which shouldn't be news:
1. The dog that killed the cat was a pit bull.
2. A guy who is willing to shoot a neighbor family feels the need to have a "man's dog" and isn't bright enough to train it properly.

3. The dog had previously bitten a child in the same neighborhood.

[Lathum]

3. The dog had previously bitten a child in the same neighborhood.

yeah, why is the dog even alive to cause another incident?

[BrianD]

I think it's pretty clear there was speculation only about the dogs location.

Boy am I shocked it was a pitbull that had an aggressive history. Like I said earlier, the dog was probably either aggressive or trained to attack. I would be very surprised if the pitbull was on it's own property when this happened.

..or just plain untrained.

[sterlingice]

Holy crap. After reading through this thread I am not sure if I want to shot most of you or just shoot myself to end the pain.

Again, big disappointment from this thread. So much material to work with and this is what we get :(

SI

[Bad-example]

The idiot cat owner looks even more stupid with the revelation that it was a pit bull. The dog was most likely in his own yard when it killed the cat and when he decided to gun it down in cold blood. His decision put him and his family in mortal danger.

The guy owned a pit bull. What were the odds he had a gun in the house and was willing to use it in response to someone killing his dog? Survey says: pretty damned likely.

I have no pity for the dog owner. He shot a little girl and police officers. But for the cat owner not to expect return fire is stunningly stupid.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The dog was most likely in his own yard

Based on what? The sterling history of well behaved pit bulls?

Giving pits the benefit of the doubt is borderline Noop stupid (Noopid?)

[Noop]

Based on what? The sterling history of well behaved pit bulls?

Giving pits the benefit of the doubt is borderline Noop stupid (Noopid?)

Really?

[Lathum]

danger!

[gstelmack]

Based on what? The sterling history of well behaved pit bulls?

We're dealing with all kinds of irresponsible pet ownership here, barring the cat sneaking into the other neighbor's house or the dog sneaking into the cat owner's house.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Really?

RLY

Take heart, you are not alone in the world.

edit to add: Although that's really not a big revelation, around here it's not easy for you to be conspicuous, only your absolute best & most bizarro work really stands out any more.

[Noop]

RLY

Take heart, you are not alone in the world.

You know what I know a lot of people let you slide with the shit you say but seriously you have no room to even talk. One more thing I know I am not alone because you are right there with me at least I acknowledge it.

[CU Tiger]

So avenging your dog would be worth a lengthy jail sentence?


niiiiiiiiice.

I hope my sarcasm wasnt lost in that post.....

[Bad-example]

Based on what? The sterling history of well behaved pit bulls?

Giving pits the benefit of the doubt is borderline Noop stupid (Noopid?)

Dogs most often tend to be restricted to their owner's property, be it by chain or fence. Dogs do get loose but the stories don't mention the dog running free. Until more details come available I find the most likely scenario to be that the cat went into the dog's yard and got caught.

Low blow there at the end. And funny, considering how many of your posts I have considered borderline 'Noopid'. :)

[Lathum]

I hope my sarcasm wasnt lost in that post.....

I reread it and thought you were probably joking, then I realized you are from South Carolina so you never know ;)

[TCY Junkie]

I hope my sarcasm wasnt lost in that post.....
"minding his business...eating their cat and they shot him...BANG"
I was thinking to each their own until the above and then "he tricked me".

I like the term noopid, it is funny because he is unfairly bashed on more than others on here.

[Tyrith]

All I can say is that if someone's dog killed my cat, I'd kill the dog. And it deserved to die. I'm not saying that killing it would be the best way to handle the situation, but I think it would be fundamentally just. And I really doubt there is much of a case that can be held against the cat owner other than unlawfully discharging a firearm - a dog is a deadly thing, just like a gun is, and the dog - and therefore the dog owner - started it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Dogs most often tend to be restricted to their owner's property, be it by chain or fence.

We must have lived in some pretty different places. I see as many token efforts as genuine ones.

Let's make no mistake, I am extremely critical of any pet owner -- dog, cat, bird, hamster, pot-bellied pig -- that allows their animal to encroach on anyone else's property. It's highly irresponsible and no good comes of it.

That said however, even in areas where dogs roaming are supposedly restricted by law, I've consistently have to deal with roughly the same number them in my yard as I do cats.

Now maybe the cats are just more discreet, and Lord only knows I'm more forgiving of them since I've never had anyone else's cat attack my or a family member in my own yard (something I can't say for other people's dogs) but my own experiences haven't shown dog owners to be any more responsible with their pets than cat owners.

And in fairness, I did single out your apparent faith in the dog/dog owner as being Noopid, not you in general. Just about anybody is entitled to the occasional moment of Noopidity, just don't make a habit of it ;)

[Sgran]

Aggressive dog bites a kid. Tensions are high. Neighborhood is buzzing about the crazy guy who refuses to keep his dog on a tighter leash. Neighbor offers some free advice which the dog owner rejects. Little girl watches her cat get mauled by said dog, starts to cry. Dad loses it, goes inside for his gun (rifle? handgun?) and shoots the dog. Neighbor hears shot and returns fire, but he's a bit drunk and not used to his oversized handgun and his shots go off in all directions, striking the man and his daughter. Cops show up and the dog owner is holed up, refusing to give himself up. Violence spills into the street, shots are exchanged, 2 cops go down, man is shot to death. News of the event spreads and the violence continues on a website forum devoted to simulated football software. Where will it end??!!

[Pumpy Tudors]

This is all Daivd Winter's fault.

[Lathum]

Aggressive dog bites a kid. Tensions are high. Neighborhood is buzzing about the crazy guy who refuses to keep his dog on a tighter leash. Neighbor offers some free advice which the dog owner rejects. Little girl watches her cat get mauled by said dog, starts to cry. Dad loses it, goes inside for his gun (rifle? handgun?) and shoots the dog. Neighbor hears shot and returns fire, but he's a bit drunk and not used to his oversized handgun and his shots go off in all directions, striking the man and his daughter. Cops show up and the dog owner is holed up, refusing to give himself up. Violence spills into the street, shots are exchanged, 2 cops go down, man is shot to death. News of the event spreads and the violence continues on a website forum devoted to simulated football software. Where will it end??!!

I blame Noop, he started this thread

[Bad-example]

We must have lived in some pretty different places. I see as many token efforts as genuine ones.

Good point. We see probably one loose dog a month here. Cats of course roam freely.

[Lathum]

Good point. We see probably one loose dog a month here. Cats of course roam freely.

Probably because cats don't usually attack children or dogs.

[gstelmack]

Probably because cats don't usually attack children or dogs.

Well, dogs don't usually attack cats or children either.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

What ever happened to dueling banjos?

[Lathum]

Well, dogs don't usually attack cats or children either.

then why do mailmen carry mace?

[Bad-example]

then why do mailmen carry mace?

in case they meet orc

[Noop]

then why do mailmen carry mace?

In case the husband comes home.

[Travis]

then why do mailmen carry mace?

Ounce of prevention worth a pound of cure and all that.

I mean, one dog attack (if it's a big enough dog) is going to be a pretty bad day. Not a lot of people tend to have 20+lb cats for pets (and the one's I've run across aren't exactly "fit" if they're tipping the scales at over 20lbs).

Around where I live we rarely see dogs roaming free but we clean up after cats on our lawn very regularly. Sure that's annoying, but cleaning up after 20 cats is a lot less dangerous than facing one (insert large dog breed name here). Mailmen carrying mace in certain areas is likely much more necessary than others, but a smart idea for all I'd say.

[Fidatelo]

All this 'would you or would you not shoot the guy that shot your dog' talk is missing something very fundamental: What happened to just beating someone down?

Seriously, if someone shot my dog, and if I felt it was unjustified (read: my dog isn't a crazy-ass pitbull that just ate the dude's pet), I wouldn't go get a gun and shoot the fool. I'd simply give him an old fashioned beat down with my fists. And if he was bigger than me, I'd jersey him first.

[fantom1979]

Cat attack = bad scratch, maybe an infection (get a bandaid)
Dog attack = death (get a casket)

[cuervo72]

Based on what? The sterling history of well behaved pit bulls?

Giving pits the benefit of the doubt is borderline Noop stupid (Noopid?)

I get stoopid, I shoot an arrow like Cupid,
I use a word that don't mean nothin', like noopid

[Kodos]

JiMG and I rarely see eye to eye on much, but Noopid was brilliant. :D

[Kodos]

P.S. Yes, I'm aware that he likely considers me to be a Kodolt or Kodidiot. :)

[DanGarion]

I love Mad Libs!!!

Ok, looking for 2 nouns, obviously, so I will answer with "banana" and "paper shredder".

"I don't think the death of anything should result in the death of anything more. Just because you kill my banana doesn't give me any right to kill your paper shredder."

LOL!!!

I'm with Pumpy that was epic!

[JonInMiddleGA]

JiMG and I rarely see eye to eye on much, but Noopid was brilliant. :D

Thanks, I have to admit I was pretty happy with it. My only hesitation was that I couldn't believe that it hadn't already been used. It's so obvious & it just sings.

[gstelmack]

Cat attack = bad scratch, maybe an infection (get a bandaid)
Dog attack = death (get a casket)

Well, yeah. The original quote was about frequency, not result.

[Noop]

Thanks, I have to admit I was pretty happy with it. My only hesitation was that I couldn't believe that it hadn't already been used. It's so obvious & it just sings.

My name for you would get me IP banned.

[DanGarion]

Aggressive dog bites a kid. Tensions are high. Neighborhood is buzzing about the crazy guy who refuses to keep his dog on a tighter leash. Neighbor offers some free advice which the dog owner rejects. Little girl watches her cat get mauled by said dog, starts to cry. Dad loses it, goes inside for his gun (rifle? handgun?) and shoots the dog. Neighbor hears shot and returns fire, but he's a bit drunk and not used to his oversized handgun and his shots go off in all directions, striking the man and his daughter. Cops show up and the dog owner is holed up, refusing to give himself up. Violence spills into the street, shots are exchanged, 2 cops go down, man is shot to death. News of the event spreads and the violence continues on a website forum devoted to simulated football software. Where will it end??!!
Sgran for the win.

[DanGarion]

Cat attack = bad scratch, maybe an infection (get a bandaid)
Dog attack = death (get a casket)
Actually cat bites are quite dangerous. And haven't you ever heard of cat scratch fever?

[Chief Rum]

Probably because cats don't usually attack children or dogs.

Actually it's because no one gives a shit about the cats. :)

[heybrad]

My name for you would get me IP banned.
PM it to me and I'll post it and take the hit. I've got to know.

This is one of the funniest, most interesting threads around this place lately.

:popcorn:

[MrDNA]

So should I stop letting my tiger roam the neighborhood freely?

[Lathum]

hey Brad!

[fantom1979]

So should I stop letting my tiger roam the neighborhood freely?

As mentioned earlier, cats are harmless.

http://www.radioalgoa.com/assets/images/siegfried_roy_tiger_1_r.jpg

[RendeR]

These are not the only possibilities. Just because the dog killed the cat does not mean the dog was the aggressor. A cat is just as likely to attack a dog as a dog is to attack a cat. The dog could have simply been defending itself.

This is one of the most obviously stupid statements I have ever read from you. You're really not this ignorant of animal behaviour are you?

I predict this thread gets ugly soon

It got ugly as soon as Noop tried to make an argument that the dog owner had any right to fire his gun.

Because you are a hypocrite.

And now we see why you're not in law school anymore....

Holy crap. After reading through this thread I am not sure if I want to shot most of you or just shoot myself to end the pain.

Seriously, I'm with you here.

Pumpy I am not sure what you're getting at? I agree with you for the most part.

And we flip flop yet again

No I wondered if a judge would make the cat owner share some blame in what happened. Kind of like if I start a fight in a club and during the melee someone broke their arm I could be held responsible.

Yeah cause shooting PEOPLE is son on the level with shooting a dog thats attacked other PEOPLE before, let alone a cat.

Then I somehow grossly misread this.

No we all just grossly misunderstood Noop, we thought he had a brain.

Really?

Reeehheeeeeely.

Dogs most often tend to be restricted to their owner's property, be it by chain or fence. Dogs do get loose but the stories don't mention the dog running free. Until more details come available I find the most likely scenario to be that the cat went into the dog's yard and got caught.


This is North Carolina, the vast majority of the state has no "enforcable" leash laws. As you said though you're used to a different area of the country where they keep tighter reign on things.

Probably because cats don't usually attack children or dogs.

DING!

Well, dogs don't usually attack cats or children either.

LOLA ABAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahahahah!!!!!

My name for you would get me IP banned.

After some of your more recent threads/posts I'm beginning to think that wouldn't be a huge problem.

So should I stop letting my tiger roam the neighborhood freely?

No, Tigers are obviously just giant snuggly lovable creatures. So what if they swallow pit bulls whole? If the dog got near the tiger it apparently deserved to die.

[RendeR]

As mentioned earlier, cats are harmless.

http://www.radioalgoa.com/assets/images/siegfried_roy_tiger_1_r.jpg


See now, if I were the Tiger I'd have mauled their ugly fucking asses too. As a Tiger I deserve better than to be put on stage with those two elderly fucksticks.

[Noop]

Render you're a fat piece of shit. I got some words for anyone with a problem with me. PM me if you want to hear it.

[CU Tiger]

LOLA ABAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahahahah!!!!!


So it is your position that dogs do generally attack cats and children?
Wow....75MM dogs as pets in the US and less than 5 mm annual reported attacks and your position is that dogs usually attack children and cats...

Wow....you should buy those powerball tickets

[Radii]

Some people in this thread need to look up the definition of the word "usually"

[Radii]

CU Tiger beat me to it.

[MrDNA]

So it is your position that dogs do generally attack cats and children?
Wow....75MM dogs as pets in the US and less than 5 mm annual reported attacks and your position is that dogs usually attack children and cats...

Wow....you should buy those powerball tickets

70 million dogs aren't holding up their end of the deal!

[Danny]

I thought this thread was near over when I stopped posting on page 1, apparently not.

[RendeR]

So it is your position that dogs do generally attack cats and children?
Wow....75MM dogs as pets in the US and less than 5 mm annual reported attacks and your position is that dogs usually attack children and cats...

Wow....you should buy those powerball tickets


No I'm laughing at the utter idiocy of the rest of your post that suggests cats are anywhere near to the same numbers if not more so.

If you can't make a valid argument, move in with Noop.

[Glengoyne]

Noopid is brilliant, and that is from a guy who feels bad because I never used to give him a break.

Seriously Noop has come a long way since I first encountered him here some six years back.

[Noop]

No I'm laughing at the utter idiocy of the rest of your post that suggests cats are anywhere near to the same numbers if not more so.

If you can't make a valid argument, move in with Noop.

You're a fucking idiot. I swear to God PM so I can tell you how I feel about you. You fat ass piece of shit.

[Noop]

I wonder if I can get banned for what I say to someone in a PM. Because I am going to deliver to the ether to fat ass from Buffalo and anyone else who has a problem with me. You all will get the same message.

[RendeR]

You're a fucking idiot. I swear to God PM so I can tell you how I feel about you. You fat ass piece of shit.


Stop hiding behind your bullshit excuses Noop. If you hadn't made a complete fucking ass of yourself in this and a number of other threads with ignorant and assinine commentaries on life and society perhaps you wouldn't be taking quite so much abuse when you open your mouth and insert your ass.


You want to tell me something, then post it you chicken shit. You got a PM button to, send it on. I've been insulted by people with FAR more skill and intellect at it than you show. I'm really not stressing this =)

[RendeR]

Oh and don't worry about getting banned, I'm not sad enough (IMO) to go crying to the admins for helps with the likes of you.

[Noop]

Stop hiding behind your bullshit excuses Noop. If you hadn't made a complete fucking ass of yourself in this and a number of other threads with ignorant and assinine commentaries on life and society perhaps you wouldn't be taking quite so much abuse when you open your mouth and insert your ass.


You want to tell me something, then post it you chicken shit. You got a PM button to, send it on. I've been insulted by people with FAR more skill and intellect at it than you show. I'm really not stressing this =)

You're such a pussy. You and the rest of those asshole know nothing about anything. I don't need to prove anything to anyone I give my opinion and you want to make shit personal with your dumb ass attacks. You're a 40 year ago man acting like a fucking idiot who would never say a damn thing to anyone in real life. I treat people with respect even those who have nothing but negative comments to me.

A few of you have a gay fetish for everything I post so why don't you just ignore me? Fucking dumbass. You are not better then me and I am not better then you or anybody. You grew up one way and I grew up another I fucking have an opinion. Don't like say so but the level of disrespect you spew is some punk ass shit.

This goes to anyone with a problem with me and loves to name call like some bitches. If you ever meet me in person we can discuss it like men or fight like boys your choice. Some of you are down right disrespectful and make a habit out of ganging up on someone.

So Render you bitch I suggest the ignore button so you don't have to read my Noopid comments anymore. If not then go fuck yourself with a cumbersome object you fat bastard.

[MrBug708]

Actually it's because no one gives a shit about the cats. :)

Im sure if we had cats the size of pit bulls, we might :) No one ever complains about dachshunds when they attack someone, just like cats.

[RendeR]

You're such a pussy. You and the rest of those asshole know nothing about anything. I don't need to prove anything to anyone I give my opinion and you want to make shit personal with your dumb ass attacks. You're a 40 year ago man acting like a fucking idiot who would never say a damn thing to anyone in real life. I treat people with respect even those who have nothing but negative comments to me.

A few of you have a gay fetish for everything I post so why don't you just ignore me? Fucking dumbass. You are not better then me and I am not better then you or anybody. You grew up one way and I grew up another I fucking have an opinion. Don't like say so but the level of disrespect you spew is some punk ass shit.

This goes to anyone with a problem with me and loves to name call like some bitches. If you ever meet me in person we can discuss it like men or fight like boys your choice. Some of you are down right disrespectful and make a habit out of ganging up on someone.

So Render you bitch I suggest the ignore button so you don't have to read my Noopid comments anymore. If not then go fuck yourself with a cumbersome object you fat bastard.

Are you done?

Good.

Now, you are right you were raised one way and everyone else was raised their way and thats fine, however that is not reason enough to exempt you from comment and/or ridicule when you open your mouth and spout something stupid or assinine. If you can't handle that, then you need to get off the internet. its just not your kind of place.

You are welcomed to post whatever opinions you want, you are also welcome to the consequences of doing so. While you are correct that you aren't required to PROVE anything that you post, you must at some point give some sort of validating evidence to SUPPORT your opinion, otherwise you get thrashed as you have yet again tonight.

As for name calling, go back and read the thread bub. You're the one throwing out the name calling and spewing the hateful comments before anyone else did. If some people piss you off then its YOUR right to put them on ignore. Stop crying about people picking on you, its a rough world, get over it already.

Personally, your less than enlightened viewpoints on some things is highly entertaining and as much as I roll my eyes when reading the majority of your posts I do tend to look forward to them. Rare is the man so secure in himself that he will continuously place himself at the point of others scorn.

So, yeah, whatever Noop. Cry me a river I guess is all it boils down to. IF you can't take the responses, don't open yer mouth? It IS a discussion board after all.

[RendeR]

Hrm, you know I'm actually a little disappointed. I expected more. Where the fuck is Anthony when you need a real pissing contest?

[Lathum]

Noop, your a dumbass. If we met in real life I would fuck you up you pussy bitch. PM sent mutha fucka!

ok, I don't mean that, but I wanna read that return pm

[Noop]

Are you done?

Good.

Now, you are right you were raised one way and everyone else was raised their way and thats fine, however that is not reason enough to exempt you from comment and/or ridicule when you open your mouth and spout something stupid or assinine. If you can't handle that, then you need to get off the internet. its just not your kind of place.

You're so clueless. Nothing I said was disrespectful to anyone. Lathum made the point about needing more info and I agreed with him. My initial comment again not offending anyone was ill thought of and I said that to Pumpy. And anyway it was me wondering out loud and asking a question. So where did I fuck up? Am I suppose to be thinking one way because I am going to Law School next year? Should I stop being me and have no opinion?

You know what's funny I actually have professors who like that i have a different point of view. Helps make my work stand out from the same mundane stuff. Maybe they're just being nice and if thats the case I will accept it as long as my GPA stays high.

You are welcomed to post whatever opinions you want, you are also welcome to the consequences of doing so. While you are correct that you aren't required to PROVE anything that you post, you must at some point give some sort of validating evidence to SUPPORT your opinion, otherwise you get thrashed as you have yet again tonight.

I don't have to support anything. This is not a class I can give my opinion as I please. If I chose to do so it is at my own discretion not yours or anyone elses. You have this ill concieved notion that this is school or something.

As for name calling, go back and read the thread bub. You're the one throwing out the name calling and spewing the hateful comments before anyone else did. If some people piss you off then its YOUR right to put them on ignore. Stop crying about people picking on you, its a rough world, get over it already.

Wrong. Anyone I made a comment about has a history of being the dickhead on more then one occasion including you.

I like history so I tend to remember certain things and what I can't recall quickly I always have the search button for...

Personally, your less than enlightened viewpoints on some things is highly entertaining and as much as I roll my eyes when reading the majority of your posts I do tend to look forward to them. Rare is the man so secure in himself that he will continuously place himself at the point of others scorn.

I have said before I say things that are out of place I don't mind because I am at least willing to learn from it. This won't be the last time either.

So, yeah, whatever Noop. Cry me a river I guess is all it boils down to. IF you can't take the responses, don't open yer mouth? It IS a discussion board after all.

No it boils down to the fact if you can't stop following every post I make like a homosexual stalker then it wouldn't be a problem. Same for the rest of the idiots.

The fact still remains that you are a grown man and you still haven't learn the things they teach you in elementary school. I honestly laugh at the majority of the nonsense you guys say about me because to me its sad that grown men have nothing else better to do. Its when you all become stalkers and try to impose your dumb ass opinions I have a problem.

[Noop]

Noop, your a dumbass. If we met in real life I would fuck you up you pussy bitch. PM sent mutha fucka!

ok, I don't mean that, but I wanna read that return pm

Why? Its not directed toward you. I have some wishes for those people I wanted to share with them in private because its mean.

[Voo]

http://www.humoursenseupgrade.com/uploads/posts/1170278823_sbjnnr.jpeg

[cuervo72]

RAAAAAAAR!!!!!!

[cuervo72]

And you'd better keep that girl away from my cats.

[Lathum]

Why? Its not directed toward you. I have some wishes for those people I wanted to share with them in private because its mean.

It was a joke dude.

[Noop]

It was a joke dude.

I know. But I thought the part about you wanting me to send it to you wasn't, my fault.

[sabotai]

This is one of the most obviously stupid statements I have ever read from you. You're really not this ignorant of animal behaviour are you?

If you are suggesting that a cat can not be aggressive towards dogs, even ones that are much larger than they are, you would be completely wrong. Cats and dogs largely share the same basic, primal instincts. Maybe a dog is more likely to attack if you take into consideration that some aggressive cats might hold off on attacking a larger breed of dog, but if a cat feels threatened, is protecting kittens, has been abused and/or is not trained, etc. they can become very aggressive.

Dogs are not inherently more or less aggressive than a cat. The main reason for any perception that they are is that dogs are more likely to be owned and abused by idiots who don't know how to raise an animal. Not many "Cat Fighting" rings out there and big tough guys who want a big tough pet to prove just how big and tough they are (and then treat the pet like they treat their women - beat the shit out of them) don't typically go for the house cat. The problem with aggressive dogs are the owners, not the animals. So to go back to my "just as likely" comment, I was filtering out these cases. On a basic level, all things being equal, cats and dogs have the same likelihood of becoming aggressive animals.

[RendeR]

Well I am not sure if the legal system sees it the same as me but he is responsible for everything that happened isn't he? If he does not shoot the dog that man does not go ape shit. I would hope he gets a lengthy prison sentence but that's if they see it the way I do.

This proved what I already thought about you. Hypocrite.

I didn't say that hypocrite.

By all means: spell out how I'm being a hyprocrite. I'm quite interested. :popcorn:

Because you are a hypocrite.


OK, so first you make what appears to be a really ridiculous statement blaming the cat owner for teh Dog owner going on a shooting spree, then as other comments come out you quite literally attack Kodos.

Now I don't give a rats twin tushy what goes on between you and alien-boy, but when you talk about being respectful after posting shit like this in thread, at which point you haven't been called a name, insulted or even directly questioned about anything, then I have to call BS.

I can do that, I'm a free person with a keyboard connected to a message board.

So frankly Noop, you're whining at me is total shyte. you don't have an argument to stand on and the more you post the more you sound like the crybaby kid down teh street who never got any respect because he never did or said anything to earn any and threw a hissy fit about it.

Now if your meltdown was caused purely by Kodos nagging at you then I suggest youignore him entirely. You might not act like a total douchebag next time you get into a discussion.

Now as for your accusations that people stalk you, its not like we have a choice but to see your posts. Threads with nonsensicle statements from you are rather prolific around here. Its hard to read a popular thread without finding some of your winners in there.

But you go right on thinking we're after you for your body. Its all about what makes you feel good about yourself on the internet.

[Noop]

It's amazing how many times one guy can make bizarre arguments.

That's what he wrote first and I ignored him then he posted something that was a contradiction to something else he posted in the past.

But yeah go ahead and make shit up.

[RendeR]

If you are suggesting that a cat can not be aggressive towards dogs, even ones that are much larger than they are, you would be completely wrong. Cats and dogs largely share the same basic, primal instincts. Maybe a dog is more likely to attack if you take into consideration that some aggressive cats might hold off on attacking a larger breed of dog, but if a cat feels threatened, is protecting kittens, has been abused and/or is not trained, etc. they can become very aggressive.

Dogs are not inherently more or less aggressive than a cat. The main reason for any perception that they are is that dogs are more likely to be owned and abused by idiots who don't know how to raise an animal. Not many "Cat Fighting" rings out there and big tough guys who want a big tough pet to prove just how big and tough they are (and then treat the pet like they treat their women - beat the shit out of them) don't typically go for the house cat. The problem with aggressive dogs are the owners, not the animals. So to go back to my "just as likely" comment, I was filtering out these cases. On a basic level, all things being equal, cats and dogs have the same likelihood of becoming aggressive animals.


My only response is to the bolded part as the rest I tend to agree with. For that though you are completely wrong IMO. Dogs are inherently attracted to movement, MOST of them are sight hunters and anything that moves is an instantaneous attraction.

Cats in general will never assault anything as large or larger than themselves. Its preservation, cats will flee first, fight last.

All things being equal a dog will be the aggressor FAR more than any cat ever will.

All things being equal: Dog and cat in a fenced yard. The dog will chase the cat, its intent may not be malicious, it also might be, but the cat will flee EITHER way. The dog will give chase as soon as the cat moves because thats what dogs do, its their nature to chase, seek, hunt, etc.

Its a very very rare feline that will go on the offensive when flight is a viable option. now you put them in a small enclosed space where the cat CANNOT flee and the dog will still chase, the cat will then become aggressive because its trapped.

I agree with you that MOST dog situations can probably be traced back to fuckwad owners, but to say canines and felines are equally aggressive is totally incorrect based on everything I've read and experienced with both species throughout my life.

[RendeR]

That's what he wrote first and I ignored him then he posted something that was a contradiction to something else he posted in the past.

But yeah go ahead and make shit up.


What am I making up? I QUOTED you. You really can be a tool sometimes. As I said, if you and alien-boy have issues that's your problem. He commented on you making bizaar comments, Is he lying? not really. You do make some fucked up statements.

Going off on him in this thread about something said elsewhere without even linking it up just makes you look like a moron.

[Noop]

What am I making up? I QUOTED you. You really can be a tool sometimes. As I said, if you and alien-boy have issues that's your problem. Going off on him in this thread about something said elsewhere without even linking it up just makes you look like a moron.

No wonder your first wife left you.

[RendeR]

No wonder your first wife left you.

And you wonder why people treat you like shit? You earn it man =)

[MacroGuru]

LOL....

My wifes pet cats bird will kick all your asses and eat some popcorn while doing it!

[sabotai]

LOL....

My wifes pet cats bird will kick all your asses and eat some popcorn while doing it!

Her what? Your wife's pet cat has a pet bird?

[MacroGuru]

Her what? Your wife's pet cat has a pet bird?

Damn skippy....I thought that was common....;)

[Noop]

And you wonder why people treat you like shit? You earn it man =)

You know you're one creepy dude. Everything makes since to me now with regard to you. LOL. You win dude.

[BYU 14]

Damn skippy....I thought that was common....;)

It is...the Popcorn part though, now that is just bizarre, everyone knows Birds prefer chili fries.

[larrymcg421]

Solving problems with a gun will end up screwing you. I mean, assuming the guy only went after the cat owner because he shot his dog, he's still going to go to jail for shooting that guy. You sure showed him for killing the cat and y ou can enjoy that feeling for the next 20 to life.

Of course, the cat owner is also stupid (unless the shooting was in self defense) and deserves to go to jail.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Noop gets loose and an otherwise unnotable thread becomes 4 pages long.

[Julio Riddols]

So, Curiosity Inc. has decided to expand its business to include dogs and humans. This must be in response to the economy. They must have decided to branch out to maximize their consumer base and stay afloat.

[CU Tiger]

No I'm laughing at the utter idiocy of the rest of your post that suggests cats are anywhere near to the same numbers if not more so.

If you can't make a valid argument, move in with Noop.


Hold up....put on the breaks there big fella...

You and Noop can have as many pillow fights as you want, I will not have any part of it. But just so we are clear lets have a look back through this thread..

First
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by gstelmack http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/styles/yellow/buttons//viewpost.gif (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?p=2035597#post2035597)
Well, dogs don't usually attack cats or children either.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Please note CU Tiger didnt say gstelmack said......]

Then you replied


LOLA ABAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahahahah!!!!!



[ SO gstelmack said dogs dont usually attack cats or children and yopu belly laughed implying that you find that statement totally ridicculous, or that the converse must be true- I.E. Dogs do usually attack cats and children and with such regularity that anyone who disagrees is laughable]

Then I reply


So it is your position that dogs do generally attack cats and children?
Wow....75MM dogs as pets in the US and less than 5 mm annual reported attacks and your position is that dogs usually attack children and cats...

Wow....you should buy those powerball tickets

Now where is MY utter idiocy?
Have a look around looks like you have a nice glass house and are slinging some rocks there, dude.

I have a feeling you have a very small smaple size of dog cat interaction, and that furthermore living in Buffalo you are not familiar with yard cats..
If you think that cats always run given the option you are sadly mistaken

Througout evolution the feline line is actually much more aggressive than its canine counterparts....dogs are great chase and herding animals but very very few species will attack anything...cats on the other hand by rule are carnvierous hunters....granted if you become their intended prey they will most likely do less damage than a dog due to relative size, but the intent is the same.

I can name just as many docile dogs that are scared of their shadow as you can cats....and FWIW Id take a bobcat over a pitbull in a money fight....(not that either are or should be natural pets...)

Again sorry if you have your defensive stance up but dont go throwing statements of idiocy at me when I have only replied to your statistically in accurate statement.<!-- / message --><!-- Google Postbit Ads for Guests Only -->

[Ksyrup]

And haven't you ever heard of cat scratch fever?

Just what we need in an argument over animals and guns is a Ted Nugent reference.

[RendeR]

Hold up....put on the breaks there big fella...

You and Noop can have as many pillow fights as you want, I will not have any part of it. But just so we are clear lets have a look back through this thread..

First
Quote:
<table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;">Originally Posted by gstelmack http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/styles/yellow/buttons//viewpost.gif (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?p=2035597#post2035597)
Well, dogs don't usually attack cats or children either.
</td></tr></tbody></table>

[Please note CU Tiger didnt say gstelmack said......]

Then you replied



[ SO gstelmack said dogs dont usually attack cats or children and yopu belly laughed implying that you find that statement totally ridicculous, or that the converse must be true- I.E. Dogs do usually attack cats and children and with such regularity that anyone who disagrees is laughable]

Then I reply




Now where is MY utter idiocy?
Have a look around looks like you have a nice glass house and are slinging some rocks there, dude.

I have a feeling you have a very small smaple size of dog cat interaction, and that furthermore living in Buffalo you are not familiar with yard cats..
If you think that cats always run given the option you are sadly mistaken

Througout evolution the feline line is actually much more aggressive than its canine counterparts....dogs are great chase and herding animals but very very few species will attack anything...cats on the other hand by rule are carnvierous hunters....granted if you become their intended prey they will most likely do less damage than a dog due to relative size, but the intent is the same.

I can name just as many docile dogs that are scared of their shadow as you can cats....and FWIW Id take a bobcat over a pitbull in a money fight....(not that either are or should be natural pets...)

Again sorry if you have your defensive stance up but dont go throwing statements of idiocy at me when I have only replied to your statistically in accurate statement.<!-- / message --><!-- Google Postbit Ads for Guests Only -->


Ok, first off, we're not talking about anything larger than a housecat here, so your entire aggression argument is false. End of that point. When it comes to PETS dogs are far more aggressive than cats. If you want to throw the entire discussion out the window then yes your right, lions and tigers and panthers are certainly more aggressive. (rolls eyes as usual with you)

Secondly I'd love to see the statistical numbers of Domestic CAT attacks compared to domestic DOG attacks. because this was the comparison which both you and GTmack inferred. The idea that housecats/YARDcats whatever the fuck cats smaller than a north american mountain lion (since we are talking about the USA here) are anywhere NEAR as aggressive as dogs IS laughable, as is your continued extrapolation of the discussioninto the absurd.

I don't much give a shit what you think of my sample size. You don't know so you're point is again worthless here. You seem to think because you live somewhere where dogs and cats both run free and that I live in Buffalo where...what? Yeah, you don't know that either.

Please shut the fuck up already. You've blathered personal views and generalizations all over this thread without a shredd of actual knowledge or supporting evidence. Noop is bad enough, we really don't need Noopidity squared.

[Subby]

Do we still have mods? I thought we weren't allowed to make direct personal attacks at FOFC.

I just want some clarification b/c I am itching to make fun of mr. poon.

[Mustang]

Just what we need in an argument over animals and guns is a Ted Nugent reference.

I laughed

[Mustang]

All I know is that you know the shit is going DOWN when you first click on a thread on it has 5 posts and you come back and hour later and it is on 3 pages.

[lordscarlet]

I just want to say a few quick things.

1. DOMESTIC dogs attack (and in particular, harm) people and other animals more than DOMESTIC cats. If you have evidence to the contrary, please present it.
2. Don't shoot a dog even if it killed your cat (this from a loving owner of three cats). You deserve jail time unless it was threatening you or your family. If it has a history of violence, a repeat offense may result in euthination(this is not a real word but I can't think of the right one).
3. Don't shoot a person because they killed your dog. You deserve a LOT of jail time.
4. We have no idea where any of the animals were during any of the events.
5. I disagree with a lot of things said in here (regarding the actual cat/dog/human situation), but it has gotten quite out of hand.

[BrianD]

When it comes to PETS dogs are far more aggressive than cats.

This may be true, but I don't think it is as obvious as you think it is. As far as attacks on people, I think we hear about many more dog attacks than cat attacks since the cat attacks usually result in a scratch-and-run. As far as dogs and cats interacting...I'm not so sure it is clear cut. Just anecdotally (if that is a word), I've seen more cats chasing dogs than dogs chasing cats.

[JonInMiddleGA]

[ SO gstelmack said dogs dont usually attack cats or children and yopu belly laughed implying that you find that statement totally ridicculous, or that the converse must be true- I.E. Dogs do usually attack cats and children and with such regularity that anyone who disagrees is laughable]

Let me see here, the figure you cited was what, something in the neighborhood of 5 million attacks & 75 million dogs, so about 1 in every 15?
Dang, that's even higher than I would I have guessed.

1 in 15, that's about the same as the rate in which people who get paid every other week take home a check and I'd damned sure say they're paid with regularity.

Given that, anyone who doesn't acknowledge the regularity with which dog attacks happen is indeed pretty laughable afaic.

[DanGarion]

You're a fucking idiot. I swear to God PM so I can tell you how I feel about you. You fat ass piece of shit.

Why are you filled with so much hate for the people on this board?

[DanGarion]

Hrm, you know I'm actually a little disappointed. I expected more. Where the fuck is Anthony when you need a real pissing contest?

He's on the RWBL message board instead.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Why are you filled with so much hate for the people on this board?

Eh, kind of hard to give him grief about that.

I mean, there's certainly no love lost between me & him for example but I could probably match him target for target with people that I have nothing pleasant to say about at my most generous.

But the ratio isn't noticeably different than the one I have offline just living day to day so it's not as though FOFC is any worse than the general population by any means & there's probably a somewhat higher percentage of people here that I could fairly describe as actually enjoying their company (which is mind bogglingly low in the population at large, I encounter an incredibly small number of people that I do more than tolerate enough to honestly say I genuine enjoy being around them).

edit to add: Waaaaay off topic I know but it struck me somehow relevant to what you asked him.

[DanGarion]

Did jb come back to the board?

[Fidatelo]

Let me see here, the figure you cited was what, something in the neighborhood of 5 million attacks & 75 million dogs, so about 1 in every 15?
Dang, that's even higher than I would I have guessed.

1 in 15, that's about the same as the rate in which people who get paid every other week take home a check and I'd damned sure say they're paid with regularity.

Given that, anyone who doesn't acknowledge the regularity with which dog attacks happen is indeed pretty laughable afaic.

This is a really good example of how someone can manipulate numbers. By comparing a regularly occurring event in time (once every 15 days) against an irregular occurrence within a group (one in every 15 dogs) you make it look like they are equal. Let me ask you this: if one of every 15 Americans earned money every year, would you say that Americans usually earn money?

Anyways, I'm going to go back to watching Noop and RendeR both continue to act like idiots. And while we are coining Noopid, I'd like to throw Rentarded up for grabs.

[Passacaglia]

If so, I haven't seen him.

[Lathum]

I fully expected this thread to be locked when I woke up

[Lathum]

Why are you filled with so much hate for the people on this board?

Not really sure you can get on Noop about this, he was beaten up pretty badly in this thread.

[Lathum]

I think we hear about many more dog attacks than cat attacks since the cat attacks usually result in a scratch-and-run.

Well I also think the difference is when a cat attacks a person ir usually requires a band-aid. When a dog attacks a person it requires stitches, plastic surgery and scarring for life.

I would venture to say a good majority of people know someone with a scar from a dog attack, I can't say I know anyone with a scar from a cat attack.

[Kodos]

I think saying dogs "usually" attack people is unfair. A solid super-majority of dogs never attack people. But there is certainly a fraction of the dog population that does attack people with little provocation. And, like many have said, it is usually the dog owner's fault in those situations.

One thing I know for sure: I give an angry looking dog a much wider berth than and angry looking cat.

[Lathum]

Eh, kind of hard to give him grief about that.

I mean, there's certainly no love lost between me & him for example but I could probably match him target for target with people that I have nothing pleasant to say about at my most generous.

But the ratio isn't noticeably different than the one I have offline just living day to day so it's not as though FOFC is any worse than the general population by any means & there's probably a somewhat higher percentage of people here that I could fairly describe as actually enjoying their company (which is mind bogglingly low in the population at large, I encounter an incredibly small number of people that I do more than tolerate enough to honestly say I genuine enjoy being around them).

edit to add: Waaaaay off topic I know but it struck me somehow relevant to what you asked him.

If I am ever in Athens, Ga I am buying you lunch, or 7 cups of coffee, or a carton of cigarettes, or whatever you consume for lunch. I would love to just chat with you for an afternoon.

[lordscarlet]

This is a really good example of how someone can manipulate numbers. By comparing a regularly occurring event in time (once every 15 days) against an irregular occurrence within a group (one in every 15 dogs) you make it look like they are equal. Let me ask you this: if one of every 15 Americans earned money every year, would you say that Americans usually earn money?

Anyways, I'm going to go back to watching Noop and RendeR both continue to act like idiots. And while we are coining Noopid, I'd like to throw Rentarded up for grabs.

OK, we have gotten on MBBF's case about what the "vast majority" of a percentage of a population is, but... 1 in 15 dogs is a LOT. And that's PER YEAR. I'm sorry, but I'm with JIMGA that the number surprises me. Granted, "1 in 15" doesn't actually mean 1 in 15 dogs. There could be 5 dogs attacking 3 times per year. Regardless, I would have guessed PER YEAR that roughly 1 attack per 100 or so dogs was reported.

[Kodos]

One of my more vivid childhood memories is of the time my family was out on a bike ride, and a doberman started chasing us, so my father went slow to save the rest of us, and got bit on the leg. Scary. That dog could have really hurt one of us.

[lordscarlet]

Well I also think the difference is when a cat attacks a person ir usually requires a band-aid. When a dog attacks a person it requires stitches, plastic surgery and scarring for life.

I would venture to say a good majority of people know someone with a scar from a dog attack, I can't say I know anyone with a scar from a cat attack.

I have scars from cats, but that's from playing with them, not being attacked. And they're not big gruesome scars, but little scratches do leave marks for quite some time on my skin (probably exacerbated by my slight allergy to cats)

[Logan]

Let me see here, the figure you cited was what, something in the neighborhood of 5 million attacks & 75 million dogs, so about 1 in every 15?
Dang, that's even higher than I would I have guessed.

I was really surprised when I saw that too. Could that attack number be loaded up by one dog flipping out in a group of kids and biting 6 of them? Still, I would think that would be a huge minority of the attacks.

[Fidatelo]

OK, we have gotten on MBBF's case about what the "vast majority" of a percentage of a population is, but... 1 in 15 dogs is a LOT. And that's PER YEAR. I'm sorry, but I'm with JIMGA that the number surprises me. Granted, "1 in 15" doesn't actually mean 1 in 15 dogs. There could be 5 dogs attacking 3 times per year. Regardless, I would have guessed PER YEAR that roughly 1 attack per 100 or so dogs was reported.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all, I think 1 in 15 sounds awfully frequent as well (though I would also assume that there are lots of multiple offenders that when accounted for would drop the numbers).

My point was that JIMGA's statistical manipulation was misleading. He was comparing apples and oranges to prove his point, and that always annoys me so I decided to point it out.

Anyways, lets get back to discussing Noopid and Rentarded, that's more fun.

[Lathum]

I have scars from cats, but that's from playing with them, not being attacked. And they're not big gruesome scars, but little scratches do leave marks for quite some time on my skin (probably exacerbated by my slight allergy to cats)

Well that was my point. I can't speak for everyone, but I've seen several kids with terrible scars from dog attacks.

[JonInMiddleGA]

This is a really good example of how someone can manipulate numbers. By comparing a regularly occurring event in time (once every 15 days) against an irregular occurrence within a group (one in every 15 dogs) you make it look like they are equal.

But it's really the difference in "regularly" and "usually". Notice which word I used in that post. And it does happen with such frequency that I'd say it's a regular occurrence. Those stories don't hit the news now because they're particularly notable for being out of the ordinary, they hit the news strictly for the horror value.

[JonInMiddleGA]

If I am ever in Athens, Ga I am buying you lunch, or 7 cups of coffee, or a carton of cigarettes, or whatever you consume for lunch. I would love to just chat with you for an afternoon.

The part that usually scares people is when they realize how rational I seem in person ;)

[DanGarion]

OK, we have gotten on MBBF's case about what the "vast majority" of a percentage of a population is, but... 1 in 15 dogs is a LOT. And that's PER YEAR. I'm sorry, but I'm with JIMGA that the number surprises me. Granted, "1 in 15" doesn't actually mean 1 in 15 dogs. There could be 5 dogs attacking 3 times per year. Regardless, I would have guessed PER YEAR that roughly 1 attack per 100 or so dogs was reported.
I don't even think those numbers are CLOSE to real. I highly doubt 1 out of 15 dogs attack.

[lordscarlet]

Well that was my point. I can't speak for everyone, but I've seen several kids with terrible scars from dog attacks.

Right, I was just commenting, really. :)

I don't even think those numbers are CLOSE to real. I highly doubt 1 out of 15 dogs attack.

DOG BITE LAW - Statistics about dog bites in the USA and elsewhere (http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html)

[JonInMiddleGA]

I don't even think those numbers are CLOSE to real. I highly doubt 1 out of 15 dogs attack.

Don't blame me, I just worked with the number provided here by someone trying to show how harmless dogs were.

At first blush it surprised me too but it was less surprising when I thought about anecdotal evidence like as far as I can recall there's been at least one kid in my son's class every year with a significant scar from a dog attack or an in-year incident that required an emergency room trip. You could figure that's one in 20ish from multiple samples so that does make 1 in 15 seem less surprising but only after I thought about it a while.

You'd also have to figure in the number of attacks that don't result in serious injury (such as the incident at my house earlier in the year) as well as most likely some factored estimate of the number of attacks that occur but aren't reported. If the baseline numbers of 5m attacks & 75m dogs are correct after thinking about it a bit it really isn't as surprising as I first thought.

[Passacaglia]

Like LS said, it's not necessarily one in 15 dogs. It's 5 million people bit.

DOG BITE LAW - Statistics about dog bites in the USA and elsewhere (http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html)

[wade moore]

I'm looking at some numbers and I wonder if JiMGA pulled stats from the same place i'm looking at.

If so, I think something is slanted here from this site. It's very much a "DOG BITES ARE KILLING OUR CHILDREN!" type site.

A survey by the national Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta ("CDC") concluded that dogs bite nearly 2% of the U.S. population -- more than 4.7 million people annually. (Sacks JJ, Kresnow M, Houston B. Dog bites: how big a problem? Injury Prev 1996;2:52-4.)

But then..

Almost 800,000 bites per year -- one out of every 6 -- are serious enough to require medical attention. (Weiss HB, Friedman D, Coben JH. Incidence of dog bite injuries treated in emergency departments. JAMA 1998;279:51-53.)

So.. what happens in that gap of about 4 million bites? How was the survey question asked? My dogs have bitten me before, but not hard enough to draw blood. Would that be counted in this survey? Could that really be considered an "attack"?

and..

The statistics on fatal attacks are more accurate, and more current, than those on dog bites in general. Researchers have to be careful to use current numbers when reporting about canine homicides, because of the sharp increase over the past decade.

[wade moore]

Dola: sorry, it wasn't JiMGA that initially posted the numbers.

Looks like we're all pulling up the same site though.

[Lathum]

Interesting about those stats but not surprising.

There is a reason why when you get homeowners insurance they ask you what kind of dog you have. IIRC there was nothing about cats on there.

[Fidatelo]

But it's really the difference in "regularly" and "usually". Notice which word I used in that post. And it does happen with such frequency that I'd say it's a regular occurrence. Those stories don't hit the news now because they're particularly notable for being out of the ordinary, they hit the news strictly for the horror value.

It's still an apples and oranges comparison, even if we assume that 1 in 15 dogs are attacking people (which is a stretch based on the numbers itself, but lets go with it for now).

90% or so of American humans regularly receive a paycheque once every 15 days during a year.

7% or so of American dogs regularly attack a human once every 365 days during a year.

How do you make a meaningful comparison out of those two things? You can't, so I don't see the point. The only similarity between them was that they both had "1 in 15" in them when you worded them as you did.

Now, we can all have a discussion over whether 7% of dogs attacking people on a regular basis is cause to state that dogs usually attack people, but lets not try to throw unrelated numbers around to confuse the issue.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And since we're on this road already, let me put in a quick stop at the rest area labeled "It's not the dog's fault". While the dog constitutes the threat (the NC case notwithstanding) there are quite a few human factors that lead to the problem, the dog is largely just being what the dog is or has been turned into.

[wade moore]

heh..

http://www.absolutelycats.com/22Ouch.html

A cat bites one in every 170 people in the U.S. each year. This includes children and people who don't even own a cat. So, everyone stands a fairly good chance of experiencing this trauma sometime. My suggestion is to treat it with respect–the cat too.

[Noop]

Do we still have mods? I thought we weren't allowed to make direct personal attacks at FOFC.

I just want some clarification b/c I am itching to make fun of mr. poon.

Go for it.

[Fidatelo]

I can't believe I'm not getting any love for Rentarded. You people suck. Fuck you all. PM me if you really want the business.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And now wade let's find the numbers on how many of those cat bites are fatal versus the number of dog bites.

I imagine that there's no shortage of pet birds who bite too but I haven't heard of many of those ending with a trip to the morgue.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I can't believe I'm not getting any love for Rentarded.

It's not bad by any means, it's just a more awkward construct and doesn't roll as trippingly off the tongue.

[wade moore]

And now wade let's find the numbers on how many of those cat bites are fatal versus the number of dog bites.

I imagine that there's no shortage of pet birds who bite too but I haven't heard of many of those ending with a trip to the morgue.

I'm trying to find that fwiw.

There are (depending on which stat you believe) 12-17 fatal dog bites a year.

Trying to find similar numbers for cats, but I'd argue that 12-17 out of 800k, 4.7mil, whatever it is is pretty low.

[Fidatelo]

I imagine that there's no shortage of pet birds who bite too but I haven't heard of many of those ending with a trip to the morgue.

It's a good thing people don't have pet geese, those fuckers are vicious!

[Lathum]

Yeah but Wade, like I said earlier, Cat bite equals band aid, dog bite equals stitches

[JonInMiddleGA]

It's a good thing people don't have pet geese, those fuckers are vicious!

And then there's the llamas and emus.

[molson]

I think it's funny that people are taking this estimated 5 million dog bite number and distributing those bites to 5 million different dogs, all of whom apparently bite one person, one time, each year.

I mean, come on.

[Noop]

I can't believe I'm not getting any love for Rentarded. You people suck. Fuck you all. PM me if you really want the business.

I like it man. Doesn't quite flow like Noopid but its good.

[wade moore]

Yeah but Wade, like I said earlier, Cat bite equals band aid, dog bite equals stitches

And I'm saying that a large portion of dog bites are the same thing. Even that one cheesy little website says that 800k of those 4.7 million require any medical attention at all.

[Fidatelo]

I like it man. Doesn't quite flow like Noopid but its good.

What if we get rid of the past tense, so instead of saying "you're being Rentarded" we say "stop being a Rentard"? That would flow better, right?

Bah, I'm just disappointed that no one wanted to get the business. Pussies.

[wade moore]

FWIW - I agree that a dog is capable of more damage than a cat. But I'm trying to put some sanity to the growing idea in this thread that dogs are out in huge numbers on a massive rampage mauling people to death.

[Noop]

What if we get rid of the past tense, so instead of saying "you're being Rentarded" we say "stop being a Rentard"? That would flow better, right?

Bah, I'm just disappointed that no one wanted to get the business. Pussies.

Sounds good.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I think it's funny that people are taking this estimated 5 million dog bite number and distributing those bites to 5 million different dogs, all of whom apparently bite one person each year. I mean, come on.

What was the stat cited just a bit ago, that over half of the incidents involved first-time offenders?

Here's the reality of it: it's a problem, it's one that is long overdue to be addressed, and it's time that either state/local governments step up to the plate and (pun intended) put some real teeth in both regulations on dogs and the punishment for irresponsible ownership or get used to an increasing number of stories that start like the one in Lenoir City. I've had my one near miss for this phase of life, watching a dog larger than my child headed straight for him with clearly bad intentions. There's now an ax handle right inside the garage door in the event of a repeat, with the first target being the dog & the second being the worthless bastard down the street too lazy to control his fucking dog.

And it's time for strict federal regulation on the breeding of domestic animals -- cats & dogs -- to stem the tide of overbreeding, overpopulation, and oversupply.

[gstelmack]

If you are suggesting that a cat can not be aggressive towards dogs, even ones that are much larger than they are, you would be completely wrong.

One of my favorite experiences as a child was taming a pair of feral kittens (mother was abandoned in the wild where she had them, they got taken to a vet, we adopted them). It took a month to get to the point that they would let me near the crate they were in, let alone pick them up and pet them.

[wade moore]

What was the stat cited just a bit ago, that over half of the incidents involved first-time offenders?

Here's the reality of it: it's a problem, it's one that is long overdue to be addressed, and it's time that either state/local governments step up to the plate and (pun intended) put some real teeth in both regulations on dogs and the punishment for irresponsible ownership or get used to an increasing number of stories that start like the one in Lenoir City. I've had my one near miss for this phase of life, watching a dog larger than my child headed straight for him with clearly bad intentions. There's now an ax handle right inside the garage door in the event of a repeat, with the first target being the dog & the second being the worthless bastard down the street too lazy to control his fucking dog.

And it's time for strict federal regulation on the breeding of domestic animals -- cats & dogs -- to stem the tide of overbreeding, overpopulation, and oversupply.

Despite my points in this thread, I agree with your overall assessment that more should be done about irresponsible dog owners/breeders. I do not necessarily thing there is some growing epidemic (and the statistics do not really support that either), but it doesn't change the fact that a vast majority of these incidents are easily preventable.

[Lathum]

heh..

http://www.absolutelycats.com/22Ouch.html

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And I'm saying that a large portion of dog bites are the same thing. Even that one cheesy little website says that 800k of those 4.7 million require any medical attention at all.

Your point is moot unless we know how many people were hospitilized for cat bites.

[wade moore]

Your point is moot unless we know how many people were hospitilized for cat bites.

If I could find those stats, I'd share them.

But it's not moot. 4.7 million (and most sites say a lot more go unreported) dog bites, 800k require medical attention.

So, definitely less than 25% of dog bites require ANY medical attention. I'm sure some portion of those are not even needing stitches.

As I said above, I'm not claiming that dogs (purely based on size though) are not capable of more damage than a cat, they are. I'm just saying folks in this thread are blowing it WAY out of proportion based on some suspicious statistics.

[JonInMiddleGA]

So, definitely less than 25% of dog bites require ANY medical attention. I'm sure some portion of those are not even needing stitches

I'd argue that it could be higher, considering the lackadaisical reporting likely to occur (based on experiences with other lax reporting standards) in rural areas where this sort of thing happens with some frequency (due to the absurd allowance for dog to free range).

[molson]

I'd argue that it could be higher, considering the lackadaisical reporting likely to occur (based on experiences with other lax reporting standards) in rural areas where this sort of thing happens with some frequency (due to the absurd allowance for dog to free range).

The 5 million bite number takes into account unreported cases. So it's a very rough estimate.

What's with the sudden anti-dog sentiment here? If a person's dog bites someone, is loose, or kills a cat outside its property, the owner should be held accountable. Otherwise, what do you dog-haters want? A nationwide dog ban?

[wade moore]

The 5 million bite number takes into account unreported cases. So it's a very rough estimate.

What's with the sudden anti-dog sentiment here? If a person's dog bites someone, is loose, or kills a cat outside its property, the owner should be held accountable. Otherwise, what do you dog-haters want? A nationwide dog ban?

I think it's more about preventing these incidents in the first place.

I agree with Jon - the areas (and I only found out recently this existed) where there are not leash laws need to get there act together. Areas where there are laws that are really note enforced, need to get their act together. Areas that still allow you to chain a dog outside need to get their act together (that same website mentions how a chained dog is 2.8 times more likely to bite).

Etc, etc. It goes on and on.

[JonInMiddleGA]

If a person's dog bites someone, is loose, or kills a cat outside its property, the owner should be held accountable. Otherwise, what do you dog-haters want? A nationwide dog ban?

Would one bother me personally? Not a bit outside of any negative impact on the existing dog population.

But "dog-hater" is really somewhat of a misnomer there, what you keep inside your house or on your property is your business right up until it has a negative impact on my quality of life.

I've donated to dog welfare causes, nearly gotten myself killed on numerous occasions trying to avoid running over a dog in the road, am a staunch proponent of anti-fighting & cruelty laws, and rather notably don't go around cheering or encouraging random acts of violence or creative forms of murder of dogs (which occur with some frequency with the unenlightened anti-cat population). If I was a dog "hater" I'd just keep a pan of anti-freeze outside with some kibble to attract them to their demise. If you've been a part of any of the animal threads you know that damned sure ain't my style. I harbor dogs in general no ill will at all, the extent of my distaste for their company in strictly personal and rests on me, not on the dog so I harbor them no ill will.

What I actually want is strict & consistent regulation on the obligation for owners to control their dogs, far reaching strict control of breeding, and most likely stricter guidelines on not only how dogs must be maintained but also on where & by whom they are maintained.

edit to add: After reading my own post, I'd say it's not just "somewhat of a misnomer", it's a pretty strong mischaracterization.

[molson]

I think it's more about preventing these incidents in the first place.

I agree with Jon - the areas (and I only found out recently this existed) where there are not leash laws need to get there act together. Areas where there are laws that are really note enforced, need to get their act together. Areas that still allow you to chain a dog outside need to get their act together (that same website mentions how a chained dog is 2.8 times more likely to bite).

Etc, etc. It goes on and on.

I wonder what the numbers are like if you take out pit bulls and rottweilers.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I wonder what the numbers are like if you take out pit bulls and rottweilers.

Noticeably lower.

Those breeds are almost a separate issue at this point, and as for them I'd like to see their possession in the U.S. outlawed entirely.