The OFFICIAL NHL 2009-10 Offseason Thread

[Honolulu_Blue]

"Nash has the seventh-most goals in the NHL over the last five seasons. Here's the list -- 1. Ilya Kovalchuk (Atlanta) 230; 2. Alex Ovechkin (Washington) 219; 3. Jarome Iginla (Calgary) 200; 4. Dany Heatley (Ottawa) 193; 5. Vincent Lecavalier (Tampa Bay) 188; 6. Marian Hossa (Chicago) 187; 7. Rick Nash (Columbus) 177."

This list goes to show you just what an absolute bargain Hossa is at $5.2 million. He's at least $2 million cheaper than everyone else on this list.

[Chubby]

This list goes to show you just what an absolute bargain Hossa is at $5.2 million. He's at least $2 million cheaper than everyone else on this list.

because the contracts getting handed out this year and next are going to be lower than previous years due to the cap (unless teams are dumb, see the Rangers)

[TurnerONU22]

This list goes to show you just what an absolute bargain Hossa is at $5.2 million. He's at least $2 million cheaper than everyone else on this list.

In terms of cap hit, yes, but not in real money. He's making 8 million per year for the next 7 years.

His cap hit is excellent for a team up against the cap. And the NHLPA is OK with it because he's making little money when he's reaching 42. I don't think they would have let Nash get away with a contract like that, because he's only going to be 34 at the end of his deal.

I think this is a necessary change that needs to be made in the next CBA, because when he retires, the cap hit comes right off the books, because he signed the contract before he turned 35. I think the rule should be that the cap hit stays on, even if the player retires. That way, it doesn't result in a situation where the team 'encourages' the player to retire to get cap relief.

[TurnerONU22]

because the contracts getting handed out this year and next are going to be lower than previous years due to the cap (unless teams are dumb, see the Rangers)

I'm not too sure about this, as the allure of the big stars will cause teams to ridiculously outbid each other. I think the 'role' players are going to be hit the hardest, and unless they take the pay cuts, they'll be replaced with players on entry contracts.

[Honolulu_Blue]

In terms of cap hit, yes, but not in real money. He's making 8 million per year for the next 7 years.

His cap hit is excellent for a team up against the cap. And the NHLPA is OK with it because he's making little money when he's reaching 42. I don't think they would have let Nash get away with a contract like that, because he's only going to be 34 at the end of his deal.

I think this is a necessary change that needs to be made in the next CBA, because when he retires, the cap hit comes right off the books, because he signed the contract before he turned 35. I think the rule should be that the cap hit stays on, even if the player retires. That way, it doesn't result in a situation where the team 'encourages' the player to retire to get cap relief.

I understand the difference between cap hit and real money, but I really only care about the cap hit.

The "real money" aspect of a deal is meaningless to me, since I'm not the one paying the player. The way I see it, as a fan, the only number that concerns me is "cap hit", since that is what determines how much a team has left to spend on re-signing existing players or signing/trading for new players. That's what directly affects the competitiveness/quality of the team and that's really, as a fan, all I care about.

I'll leave the "real money" concerns to the owners, players, NHL and NHLPA.

[johnnyshaka]

I'm not too sure about this, as the allure of the big stars will cause teams to ridiculously outbid each other. I think the 'role' players are going to be hit the hardest, and unless they take the pay cuts, they'll be replaced with players on entry contracts.

And that's the way it should be.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I'm not too sure about this, as the allure of the big stars will cause teams to ridiculously outbid each other. I think the 'role' players are going to be hit the hardest, and unless they take the pay cuts, they'll be replaced with players on entry contracts.

We've already seen this start to happen. Compare the deals signed this year to the deals signed in the summers of 2006-2008. For the most part, again, Rangers aside, the deals are much more reasonable than they have been. I think this is in part due to concerns about the cap remaining static or going down, which is tied into the general sense of economic unease (which is a an issue in and of itself) and the fact that folks have seen what can happen to teams that are too top heavy contract wise (i.e., Tampa Bay).

This all goes back to my original statement, that I thought we had seen the last of many 5+ year, $7+ million deals. Obviously there will be exceptions for extremely talented, young players like Nash (and Gaborik, I suppose), but I don't see too many $7+ million deals for guys like Brad Richards, Gomez, Drury, etc. Then again, Camalleri did get $6 million and all it takes is one desperate team with some cap space.

[DataKing]

I dunno what it would take to get him...or if he is actually even still available...but when i saw that hole in the second line it screamed Tanguay at me.

Tanguay was one of the first guys to jump to mind for me as well, but I'm thinking the price tag may be a bit too high for the Wings. Let's face it, they don't have a whole lot of room to work with, and Tanguay was a 5m+ guy with Montreal (not saying he's worth that much, but still...).

Looking over the list of UFA wingers out there, one guy that caught my eye is P.J. Axelsson. I've always liked Axelsson's game. He could probably be had for somewhere around 1.5m-2m and would make a nice addition to the team, I think.

[TurnerONU22]

I understand the difference between cap hit and real money, but I really only care about the cap hit.

The "real money" aspect of a deal is meaningless to me, since I'm not the one paying the player. The way I see it, as a fan, the only number that concerns me is "cap hit", since that is what determines how much a team has left to spend on re-signing existing players or signing/trading for new players. That's what directly affects the competitiveness/quality of the team and that's really, as a fan, all I care about.

I'll leave the "real money" concerns to the owners, players, NHL and NHLPA.

I think this depends on the market. I don't see Columbus ever spending to the cap, at least for a while. They're more of a 'budget' team, where they want to spend 45-50 million on salary, not worrying about the cap. Whereas Chicago, larger market, they can go to the cap, and exceed it in actual spending.

I will agree, its a bargain for Chicago, a team that can afford to go up to 60 million in salary, because they're able to turn an 8 million dollar player into a 6 million cap hit. For a club like Columbus, Nashville, other teams that are on a budget and don't approach the cap, I don't think it would be such a bargain.

[TurnerONU22]

I want to make a slight change of what I said before, I'll also add in that star 'role' players, meaning those who are in the top 5 of their 'role', will still get money as well.

The Jackets put a large amount of money into a 3rd line checking center, but Pahlsson, when healthy, is in the top 5 of his role. That's why the Jackets didn't pursue resigning Malhotra, who wanted close to the same amount of money, because he's not in the top 5 as Pahlsson is.

[DeToxRox]

Personally I have no qualms with the Nash deal. Columbus had to do it because they have no credibility as an organization to think a guy would take a long term deal (10 + years) for a lower cap hit. The reason why it works for Detroit is obviously they will pay up front but also because a guy has a good idea that Detroit will be good most of the time he is there.

Columbus is getting good but no way are they even close to the point where 10 years from now you'd think they could still be good. They did what they had to to lock up the face of the franchise to a reasonable deal.

[DeToxRox]

Villie Leino signed a 2 year deal today. He actually took a pay cut, to 800 K a season as well. Awesome stuff.

[TurnerONU22]

Personally I have no qualms with the Nash deal. Columbus had to do it because they have no credibility as an organization to think a guy would take a long term deal (10 + years) for a lower cap hit. The reason why it works for Detroit is obviously they will pay up front but also because a guy has a good idea that Detroit will be good most of the time he is there.

Columbus is getting good but no way are they even close to the point where 10 years from now you'd think they could still be good. They did what they had to to lock up the face of the franchise to a reasonable deal.

Agreed. There was a good article this weekend in our paper, discussing this same thing. Hitchcock was quoted in the article:

"I don't know that Columbus was considered as a serious place to play hockey (three years ago)," Hitchcock said. "There was potential, sure, but that doesn't get you very far if you don't coordinate, if you don't have an identity.

"You start the process of legitimacy as a franchise when you make the playoffs," coach Ken Hitchcock said. "When you take care of your own players, it's a good sign for the franchise. It's taking legitimacy to another level.

There's no way that Hossa (or other big name players) would have came to Columbus, because we're still not Stanley Cup contenders, and we don't have the history that suggests we'll be there any time soon. So our best approach is to lock up our guys long term (Nash), keep reaching the playoffs, then try to go after a Hossa type player.

[TurnerONU22]

Here's the list of players who filed for arbitration:

Anaheim Ducks: James Wisniewski
Atlanta Thrashers: Colby Armstrong
Boston Bruins: Matt Hunwick
Buffalo Sabres: Clarke MacArthur
Carolina Hurricanes: Tuomo Ruutu
Chicago Blackhawks: Aaron Johnson
Columbus Blue Jackets: Marc Methot
Detroit Red Wings: Jiri Hudler
Edmonton Oilers: Denis Grebeshkov
Minnesota Wild: Kyle Brodziak
Montreal Canadiens: Tomas Plekanec
New Jersey Devils: Travis Zajac
New York Islanders: Nate Thompson
New York Rangers: Ryan Callahan, Nikolai Zherdev
Phoenix Coyotes: Nigel Dawes, Daniel Winnik
Tampa Bay Lightning: Matt Smaby
Vancouver Canucks: Kyle Wellwood
Washington Capitals: Milan Jurcin
I saw this quote on Puck Daddy regarding Zherdev and it made me smile:

As for Zherdev ... god, what we wouldn't do to hear a rip-snorting evisceration of that floating underachiever from the Rangers.

[samifan24]

Can someone remind me how arbitration works? The player wants X, the team offers Y and a judge decides which is correct, right? Is there any way for players from that list to become FAs?

[samifan24]

By the way, where does Alex Kovalev go now that he won't be back in Montreal?

[DeToxRox]

Can someone remind me how arbitration works? The player wants X, the team offers Y and a judge decides which is correct, right? Is there any way for players from that list to become FAs?

If the arbitrator rules for say 3.5 million a year for Hudler, then the Wings can say we will not pay that and they become UFA. This is an example that could very well occur as well because if Hudler gets anything near 3 from an arbitrator (should it go that far) I think he will be shown the door.

[Honolulu_Blue]

By the way, where does Alex Kovalev go now that he won't be back in Montreal?

KHL?

[MikeVic]

Oilers!

[Honolulu_Blue]

Oilers!

Siberia >>>>>>>> Edmonton

Just ask Dany Heatley.

[MikeVic]

Siberia >>>>>>>> Edmonton

Just ask Dany Heatley.

:mad:

[samifan24]

If the arbitrator rules for say 3.5 million a year for Hudler, then the Wings can say we will not pay that and they become UFA. This is an example that could very well occur as well because if Hudler gets anything near 3 from an arbitrator (should it go that far) I think he will be shown the door.

So several very good players could very well become UFAs in the next few weeks in that scenario.

[Fidatelo]

:mad:

You know, I've been meaning to call you out on this... what's with the love for the Oilers? It drives me nuts how many Winnipeggers are all about the Oilers now. For fucks sake, those assholes tormented the Jets for years, and suddenly everyone is all 'but they're from Western Canada!'? Good grief, Alberta regards us like a retarded step-brother and yet we are willing to forget how much we hated that team for 20 years and just start sucking their dicks because they farm cows like we farm pigs? Maybe we are the retarded step-brother.

[MikeVic]

You know, I've been meaning to call you out on this... what's with the love for the Oilers? It drives me nuts how many Winnipeggers are all about the Oilers now. For fucks sake, those assholes tormented the Jets for years, and suddenly everyone is all 'but they're from Western Canada!'? Good grief, Alberta regards us like a retarded step-brother and yet we are willing to forget how much we hated that team for 20 years and just start sucking their dicks because they farm cows like we farm pigs? Maybe we are the retarded step-brother.

hahaha. I have a pretty simple explanation for myself. The first thing I can remember about watching hockey (and sports in general) was the Oilers in the Stanley Cup Finals. And with Gretzky, Messier, etc. I ended up liking the team. I don't remember what year that was though.

Of course if the Jets played any other team, I rooted for the Jets. But I still liked to see the Canadian teams do well. I didn't watch hockey for a few years after the Jets left. But when I got back into it a bit, I just defaulted to the Oilers. And sometimes the Sharks, but I don't understand that one.

I don't really like Calgary much though.

[johnnyshaka]

I don't really like Calgary much though.

Amen, brother.

[Ajaxab]

You know, I've been meaning to call you out on this... what's with the love for the Oilers? It drives me nuts how many Winnipeggers are all about the Oilers now. For fucks sake, those assholes tormented the Jets for years, and suddenly everyone is all 'but they're from Western Canada!'? Good grief, Alberta regards us like a retarded step-brother and yet we are willing to forget how much we hated that team for 20 years and just start sucking their dicks because they farm cows like we farm pigs? Maybe we are the retarded step-brother.

+1 I never understood how many Oiler fans would be in the Winnipeg Arena during the 80s whenever Edmonton was in town. I could understand Montreal and Toronto just because of the history, but the Oilers? It was brutal.

[Fidatelo]

hahaha. I have a pretty simple explanation for myself. The first thing I can remember about watching hockey (and sports in general) was the Oilers in the Stanley Cup Finals. And with Gretzky, Messier, etc. I ended up liking the team. I don't remember what year that was though.

Of course if the Jets played any other team, I rooted for the Jets. But I still liked to see the Canadian teams do well. I didn't watch hockey for a few years after the Jets left. But when I got back into it a bit, I just defaulted to the Oilers. And sometimes the Sharks, but I don't understand that one.

I don't really like Calgary much though.

I had the same experience of my first hockey memories being the Oilers in the finals (against NYI in '84), but that doesn't excuse you. The next decade of your life should have been spent learning to despise that team with every hat trick Gretzky put past our hapless netminders. By 1996 your hate for the Oilers should have been so ingrained that no amount of logic would place them at the top of your NHL food chain.

Fuck Edmonton. Fuck Calgary. Vancouver and their ilk are only inches more likeable (Kirk McLean can tell me how my ass tastes). The only acceptable teams to like from Canada are Montreal, and, if you for whatever reason feel so inclined (I can't imagine why), Ottawa. The Leafs never did anything to the Jets of any consequence, but they did hog up the CBC airwaves every week while the rest of the country wondered what arenas outside of Maple Leaf Gardens looked like. They are also from Toronto, which I hope you have at least been properly indoctrinated to hate unconditionally?

[MikeVic]

I had the same experience of my first hockey memories being the Oilers in the finals (against NYI in '84), but that doesn't excuse you. The next decade of your life should have been spent learning to despise that team with every hat trick Gretzky put past our hapless netminders. By 1996 your hate for the Oilers should have been so ingrained that no amount of logic would place them at the top of your NHL food chain.

Fuck Edmonton. Fuck Calgary. Vancouver and their ilk are only inches more likeable (Kirk McLean can tell me how my ass tastes). The only acceptable teams to like from Canada are Montreal, and, if you for whatever reason feel so inclined (I can't imagine why), Ottawa. The Leafs never did anything to the Jets of any consequence, but they did hog up the CBC airwaves every week while the rest of the country wondered what arenas outside of Maple Leaf Gardens looked like. They are also from Toronto, which I hope you have at least been properly indoctrinated to hate unconditionally?

I hate Vancouver more than any other Canadian team actually. I think anytime I was paying attention to hockey a lot, the Canucks were beating the Jets. I remember one game where it was the 3rd period of a playoff game, and Vancouver just tied it to seemingly send it to overtime... then on a face-off in the Jets' end with a few seconds left, Vancouver won the draw and fired at the net. The puck actually went in, but I think the time ran out before it crossed or something? Anyway, I remember the replay being shown so many times and it just crushed me. I don't even remember who won that game, but I'll be safe and guess Vancouver.

Heh, I liked the Maple Leafs in 1993 with Gilmour and Potvin. ;) Other than that, they're whatever. And as for the city, I don't have any opinion on it. :lol:

[Fidatelo]

I hate Vancouver more than any other Canadian team actually. I think anytime I was paying attention to hockey a lot, the Canucks were beating the Jets. I remember one game where it was the 3rd period of a playoff game, and Vancouver just tied it to seemingly send it to overtime... then on a face-off in the Jets' end with a few seconds left, Vancouver won the draw and fired at the net. The puck actually went in, but I think the time ran out before it crossed or something? Anyway, I remember the replay being shown so many times and it just crushed me. I don't even remember who won that game, but I'll be safe and guess Vancouver.

Heh, I liked the Maple Leafs in 1993 with Gilmour and Potvin. ;) Other than that, they're whatever. And as for the city, I don't have any opinion on it. :lol:

Yes, that was Vancouver. The goal you remember, if we're thinking of the same one, was in game 6 of a playoff series that the Jets had led 3 games to 1. I'm pretty sure I was sitting in the stands behind the Jets net for that goal (albeit about 800 miles up), and from what I remember, the Vancouver player fired the puck at Essensa, who made the save, but then proceeded to bowl into him and push both he and the puck into the net. For whatever reason they considered this a goal, it won Vancouver the game, and they went on to win game 7 back in BC.

So, uh, yeah. Fuck Vancouver too! I now hate them more than Calgary, just for that memory.

[MikeVic]

Yes, that was Vancouver. The goal you remember, if we're thinking of the same one, was in game 6 of a playoff series that the Jets had led 3 games to 1. I'm pretty sure I was sitting in the stands behind the Jets net for that goal (albeit about 800 miles up), and from what I remember, the Vancouver player fired the puck at Essensa, who made the save, but then proceeded to bowl into him and push both he and the puck into the net. For whatever reason they considered this a goal, it won Vancouver the game, and they went on to win game 7 back in BC.

So, uh, yeah. Fuck Vancouver too! I now hate them more than Calgary, just for that memory.

I don't remember a ton of detail, just the scenario. And it was definitely Essensa in net.

[Fidatelo]

I don't remember a ton of detail, just the scenario. And it was definitely Essensa in net.

Ya, I just did some searching, it was 1992. I think I was there, although I'm starting to have trouble with determining which Jets milestones I witnessed in person and on TV. Frickin' old age.

Also, now I'm remembering how much I hated Vancouver... Peca destroying Selanne... argh!! FUCK!

[Fidatelo]

Hmm, I'm wondering how accurate my memory is....hockey-reference (http://www.hockey-reference.com/playoffs/NHL_1992.html) says Vancouver won that game 8-3... I could have sworn it was much closer. 5-3 sounds right (empty netter). Weird.

[Honolulu_Blue]

By the way, where does Alex Kovalev go now that he won't be back in Montreal?

KHL?

Or Ottawa... I guess they were looking for a real character guy to fill the void left by Dany Heatley. 2 years at $5 million per.


Oh, and Francois Beauchemin is a Maple Leaf. 3 years at around a total of $10 million or so. (3 years at $3.8 million per).

[Honolulu_Blue]

So, if it's true that Beauchemin is a Leaf that gives them nine defensemen under contract: Beauchemin, Komisaerk, Kaberle, Exelby, Finger, Schenn, Van Ryn, Frogren and White.

I imagine they'll want to move at least 1, probably 2 of them for some forwards (since they are still pretty thin up front). I know Kaberle has been mentioned most often as a trade candidate, but he seems to be the only real offensive/mobile defensemen out of that lot other than, maybe, Van Ryn. Given his skill level and contract, however, he would garner the most in return.

It will be interesting to see what Burke continues to do with this team. The defense looks very sound and physical. Now they just need some, maybe not a ton, skill to match.

[johnnyshaka]

Kovalev to the Sens, $10 mil over 2 years.

[RomaGoth]

Kovalev to the Sens, $10 mil over 2 years.

Too bad the Sens don't still have Yashin (or even Daigle), they could have the no-heart line:

Heatley
Yashin
Kovalev

[Suburban Rhythm]

Francois Beauchemin 3 years/ $10 M to Toronto

What the hell...Toronto is going for the anti-Tampa roster from last year.
They are going to dress 10 D and like 2 forward lines and hope to win games 1-0?

Edit...did scan close enough, HB beat me to it

[Travis]

Too bad the Sens don't still have Yashin (or even Daigle), they could have the no-heart line:

Heatley
Yashin
Kovalev

Heh, buddy of mine at work and I were just discussing who the last member of the "flatline" would be in Ottawa now that they have Kovalev.

Maybe they could deal for Zherdev?

[johnnyshaka]

Heatley for Zherdev makes a lot of sense...quick do it before the Oilers deal for either one!!!

[Suburban Rhythm]

Dola

Pittsburgh still need a #4-6 D. Problem is, all we have available would be picks, prospects, and Pascal "Don't call me Pasquale" Dupuis.

Preferably a guy who can kill penalties, and sort of cheap.

Of the guys in Toronto to fit that, it seems to be Exelby, but they aren't moving a guy they just signed for.

AND WE DON'T WANT JEFF FINGER!

Although it was never going to happen, hope around here was the Pens could entice Beauchemin, as he and MAF are buddies.

[RomaGoth]

Kovalev to the Sens, $10 mil over 2 years.

The Sens have not learned anything over the last 17 years of existence. Keep drafting/signing guys that have no interest in teamwork/defensive play/winning.

Oh, and no way in hell is Kovalev worth $5 mil/per. No way in hell.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Dola

Pittsburgh still need a #4-6 D. Problem is, all we have available would be picks, prospects, and Pascal "Don't call me Pasquale" Dupuis.

Preferably a guy who can kill penalties, and sort of cheap.

Of the guys in Toronto to fit that, it seems to be Exelby, but they aren't moving a guy they just signed for.

AND WE DON'T WANT JEFF FINGER!

Although it was never going to happen, hope around here was the Pens could entice Beauchemin, as he and MAF are buddies.

What about Jay McKee? I completely lost track of him after he went to St. Louis and was injured all the time, but before all of that, he was a pretty solid defender in Buffalo and a great shot blocker.

Given his recent history, I imagine he could be had for a reasonable amount.

[Honolulu_Blue]

As much as I like the Flyers team, the Brian Boucher/Ray Emery combo just doesn't instill much confidence. The rest of the team looks fine and should be a lot of fun to watch.

I could see a Toronto/Philly game as a match between two teams trying to out truculate the other.

[Logan]

Someone take Wade Redden!

Seriously though, how about Roszival?

[bbor]

Obviously(i hope) Bruke has something up his sleeve after signing Beauchemin....not only do the Leafs have 9 nhl defencmen they have 2 more in the minors that could play.I'm just wondering who is going to move the puck if they trade Kaberle?

[DeToxRox]

Burke is obviously sabotaging the Leafs because he found out the Burke Twitter was run by a Leafs fan.

It all makes sense now.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I'm just wondering who is going to move the puck if they trade Kaberle?


Luke Schenn... with his mind.

[DeToxRox]

Luke Schenn... with his mind.

Uh considering Burke has all summer with Schenn I suspect he'll become the Leafs enforcer or else risk being benched.

[Suburban Rhythm]

What about Jay McKee? I completely lost track of him after he went to St. Louis and was injured all the time, but before all of that, he was a pretty solid defender in Buffalo and a great shot blocker.

Given his recent history, I imagine he could be had for a reasonable amount.

That is a name that comes up alot in Pittsburgh now.

He would only have to play about 15-17 mins a night, mostly on the PK.

We currently have about $4M in cap space, and need 2 D and a backup goalie.

One of the two D is almost certain to be a kid who was in WBS last season, Ben Lovejoy-- aka the Reverend.

[Between the Reverend Ben Lovejoy and Kris 'the drink of the french astronaut' Letang, the Pens have some pretty sweet nicknames on D!]

He was an undrafted FA and finished the regular season in the AHL a +46. I know it's the AHL, but finishing +46 is still pretty nice.

He's an RFA, and won't command more than $750K. So somewhere around $3M to split between a D and a backup goalie.

[DeToxRox]

NHLPA filed their grievance regarding the Chicago RFA's. I have a feeling this might not go to well for the Hawks.

[Dr. Sak]

As much as I like the Flyers team, the Brian Boucher/Ray Emery combo just doesn't instill much confidence. The rest of the team looks fine and should be a lot of fun to watch.

I could see a Toronto/Philly game as a match between two teams trying to out truculate the other.

Emery has been to a SCF and in his rookie season he (Boucher) carried the Flyers to the ECF, went up 3-1 on the Devils and Eric Lindros came back and shit all over the team. Clarke did his usual dump the young guy for an old over the hill goalie.

If they get an average effort from their goalies, I think the Flyers will be fine.

[Maple Leafs]

So, if it's true that Beauchemin is a Leaf that gives them nine defensemen under contract: Beauchemin, Komisaerk, Kaberle, Exelby, Finger, Schenn, Van Ryn, Frogren and White.
Plus Anton Stralman, who at one point was a semi-decent prospect.

Out of that batch, Exelby can be a seventh or eighth guy. They probably trade Van Ryn just to dump his salary. Frogren probably gets cut or sent down. And White can play forward if he needs to.

Or you just do the obvious: trade Kaberle for a top line forward.

(Note in case Brian Burke is reading this: a "forward" is like a defenceman, but he plays further up.)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Out of that batch, Exelby can be a seventh or eighth guy.

From that group, I'd say he's your fifth or sixth guy (on a Burke team).

To be honest, with some time to reflect, I really don't like the deal for Atlanta & wish they hadn't done it. A lot of night XLB was one of the few guys in blue who had a pulse and I expect we'll be looking to flip Kubina for somebody else's prospects by the deadline.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Cam Barker 3 years /$9.25M

What kind of room are the Hawks going to have next season to extend Toews and Kane?

[Maple Leafs]

... I expect we'll be looking to flip Kubina for somebody else's prospects by the deadline.
Good luck with that. He has a NTC and refused to waive at each of the last two deadlines.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Good luck with that. He has a NTC and refused to waive at each of the last two deadlines.

In that case we'll probably end up paying him to sit, just as it seems we've done with every other veteran defensemen we've brought in.

[bbor]

In that case we'll probably end up paying him to sit, just as it seems we've done with every other veteran defensemen we've brought in.

Jon...i think you'll be happy with Kubby....he gives it every night...i was sorta sad to see him go.

[Honolulu_Blue]

NHLPA filed their grievance regarding the Chicago RFA's. I have a feeling this might not go to well for the Hawks.

Let's hope so!

[MikeVic]

Emery has been to a SCF and in his rookie season he (Boucher) carried the Flyers to the ECF, went up 3-1 on the Devils and Eric Lindros came back and shit all over the team. Clarke did his usual dump the young guy for an old over the hill goalie.

If they get an average effort from their goalies, I think the Flyers will be fine.

And Jim Carey led the league in shutouts, then disappeared. Goalies seem very finicky, and as neither a Flyers hater nor supporter, that goalie tandem seems pretty shaky.

[Dr. Sak]

And Jim Carey led the league in shutouts, then disappeared. Goalies seem very finicky, and as neither a Flyers hater nor supporter, that goalie tandem seems pretty shaky.

It's like that every year.

[RomaGoth]

And Jim Carey led the league in shutouts, then disappeared. Goalies seem very finicky, and as neither a Flyers hater nor supporter, that goalie tandem seems pretty shaky.

Didn't he make a few movies though? Ace Ventura, Bruce Almighty, Liar Liar...

[johnnyshaka]

Per TSN...Gustavsson chooses the Leafs with a one year deal worth $1 million...huh??

[Draft Dodger]

Per TSN...Gustavsson chooses the Leafs with a one year deal worth $1 million...huh??

huh that he chose the Leafs or huh that it was a one year deal or huh that it was 1 million?

[johnnyshaka]

The last two...I would've expected all the hype around this guy to net him at least a few million a year for 3 years.

[Draft Dodger]

The last two...I would've expected all the hype around this guy to net him at least a few million a year for 3 years.

he could only do a 1 year deal at max of $900k or something to that effect

[johnnyshaka]

he could only do a 1 year deal at max of $900k or something to that effect

Why's that? Didn't Fabio (or whatever his name is who signed with Dallas) sign a much more lucrative deal last summer?

[Honolulu_Blue]

I'm glad to hear the Monster went to Toronto. I like it when the Maple Leafs are interesting and it's been a while since they were initeresting.

Burke, Wilson, the Goon Squad, the Monster, no forwards to speak of... Good times!

[Draft Dodger]

Why's that? Didn't Fabio (or whatever his name is who signed with Dallas) sign a much more lucrative deal last summer?

(just looked this up)

18-21 year olds signing their entry level contract can sign for 3 years
22-23 year olds can sign for 2 years
24 year olds can sign for 1
25+ can sign for any length and amount.

[johnnyshaka]

Interesting...thanks for the info, DD.

[DataKing]

Cam Barker 3 years /$9.25M

What kind of room are the Hawks going to have next season to extend Toews and Kane?

As things stand right now, not enough. They'd have to hope they could convince someone to take Brian Campbell's bloated contract off their hands.

[johnnyshaka]

As things stand right now, not enough. They'd have to hope they could convince someone to take Brian Campbell's bloated contract off their hands.

Burke is collecting d-men at the moment...

[DataKing]

I don't know if Campbell is truculent enough to match the new Maple Leafs mold though. He's great at spin-o-rama-ing himself out of the play in a playoff game though. :)

[Pyser]

(just looked this up)

18-21 year olds signing their entry level contract can sign for 3 years
22-23 year olds can sign for 2 years
24 year olds can sign for 1
25+ can sign for any length and amount.

how absolutely insane. i love it.

what exactly happens at age 25? its not even the age of ufa, is it?

[Pyser]

dola, i guess it is, if you entered the league at 18 (isnt it 7 years of being in the nhl or being 27 years old, whichever comes first?).

still makes no sense for someone not in the league.

[Logan]

dola, i guess it is, if you entered the league at 18 (isnt it 7 years of being in the nhl or being 27 years old, whichever comes first?).

Correct.

[Pyser]

still doesnt explain why a 24 year old can ONLY sign a 1 year contract.

[Honolulu_Blue]

So Pronger has already signed an extension with the Flyers. So, he's basically a Flyer for life. That's good. He belongs there. I am happy to see him in the East.

The Flyers, where old, giant hulking defensemen go when they get old. (see, e.g., Rathje, Mike; Hatcher, Derian).

[Maple Leafs]

still doesnt explain why a 24 year old can ONLY sign a 1 year contract.
My understanding is that an entry-level deal can't extend beyond the year that you're 24.

So he has to sign an entry-level deal, but it can only be one year (after which he's an RFA).

[Pyser]

So Pronger has already signed an extension with the Flyers. So, he's basically a Flyer for life. That's good. He belongs there. I am happy to see him in the East.

The Flyers, where old, giant hulking defensemen go when they get old. (see, e.g., Rathje, Mike; Hatcher, Derian).

7 year, $35mil.

LOVE IT.

[Draft Dodger]

Joe Sakic is announcing his retirement on Thursday.

:(

[DataKing]

Though I've despised the Avalanche for many years, I've always had tons of respect for Joe as a player.

First-ballot HoF for sure.

[Suburban Rhythm]

7 year, $35mil.

LOVE IT.

Was texting Sak about this.

I trust the Flyers did their homework on this, but could be interesting.

Players over age 35 who sign multiyear deals, all those years count against the cap. Period.

Pronger is 34 now. But, he's got a year left on his current deal, this new 7 years is an extension. Does it count when he signs it (34) or when the new deal starts (35)?

Again, I'll assume the Flyers checked this all out...but would be funny as hell if it's the 2nd option.

[Maple Leafs]

Joe Sakic is announcing his retirement on Thursday.
Who?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Joe Sakic is announcing his retirement on Thursday.

:(

That's too bad. He had a great career.

He was the one player who always kept me from completely and utterly hating the Avalanche back in the day.

[Maple Leafs]

Does it count when he signs it (34) or when the new deal starts (35)?
Well, the CBA says it's the age "as of June 30 prior to the League Year in which the SPC is to be effective".

The League Year starts on July 1. Pronger's extension is effective July 1, 2010, which would suggest that what matters is his age as of June 30, 2010. Which is 35.

I'm assuming that I'm reading all this wrong, since the Flyers couldn't possibly make a mistake like that.

[Dr. Sak]

7 year, $35mil.

LOVE IT.

Yeah maybe by then the Devils will have some offense to actually do something. The 7 years was to get the cap hit down. So when you look at it the Flyers are paying Kimmo and Pronger the same as the Rangers are paying Redden and Rozsival .

[Dr. Sak]

Well, the CBA says it's the age "as of June 30 prior to the League Year in which the SPC is to be effective".

The League Year starts on July 1. Pronger's extension is effective July 1, 2010, which would suggest that what matters is his age as of June 30, 2010. Which is 35.

I'm assuming that I'm reading all this wrong, since the Flyers couldn't possibly make a mistake like that.


It's when the contract is signed, not when it goes into effect. He signed it today and is 34.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Reading through most of the HF thread about Pronger, the consensus seems to be Philly is on the hook for $5M a year against the cap for the term of the deal-- through 2017.

The few twists that could occur:

LTIR-- also known as "The Rathje"

Trading the cap hit to a team with space while sweetening the deal with a pick-- also known as "The Malakhov"

Sent to the minors-- savings of $100K per year, cap hit only $4.9M through 2017.

Also reading in there, the deal is on the books as $34.4M, but also includes incentives that could make it worth up to $43.9M, making the potential dead cap hit $6.2M.

Confirmed Signing with Link: Chris Pronger signs 7 year extension with Philadelphia (35 million) - HFBoards (http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=661080)

[Suburban Rhythm]

It's when the contract is signed, not when it goes into effect. He signed it today and is 34.

Reading the CBA though, it's not his age the day he signed the contract, it's his age as of June 30 of the league year. In this case, league year 09-10. And on 6/30/10, he's 35.

[Dr. Sak]

SR I'll bet you your tickets to a Flyers game next year that if Pronger retires it comes off the cap. You win I pay for your two tix...I win...I get your 2 tix.

[Suburban Rhythm]

SR I'll bet you your tickets to a Flyers game next year that if Pronger retires it comes off the cap. You win I pay for your two tix...I win...I get your 2 tix.

Deal.

Though, I don't know for certain I have a PIT-PHI game, but I'd be 99.9999% sure I've got to have one.

I would tend to agree that Flyers front office would have looked into this...but everything I've read so far says differently.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Dola

I posted this site/tool earlier in the thread

CapGeek.com - NHL salary cap calculator, buyout calculator, free agents and more! (http://www.capgeek.com/index.php)

From the main page

PRONGER CLARIFICATION: Capgeek.com sources have clarified that Chris Pronger (http://www.capgeek.com/players/display.php?pid=4397&pos=D)'s new seven-year extension is a 35-plus deal, meaning it counts toward the cap under pretty much any circumstance. His birthdate is calculated on June 30, 2010.

[bbor]

$7.6, $7.6, $7.2, $7.0, $4.0, $525,000, $525,000

Prongers deal by year.

[samifan24]

Joe Sakic is announcing his retirement on Thursday.

:(

A great player and an even better professional. A true Hall of Famer.

[Maple Leafs]

Just for entertainment value, the best-case scenario is for the cap hit to count, but for Philly to have mistakingly thought that it didn't.

[Maple Leafs]

Re: the Tim Thomas deal:

An important note on Thomas's*contract - From The Rink (http://www.fromtherink.com/2009/4/5/823767/an-important-note-on-thomass)

[Honolulu_Blue]

Just for entertainment value, the best-case scenario is for the cap hit to count, but for Philly to have mistakingly thought that it didn't.

Given this fact...

$7.6, $7.6, $7.2, $7.0, $4.0, $525,000, $525,000

Prongers deal by year.

It really sounds like the evidence is mounting in support of the best-case scenario.

More evidence in favor of the "best-case scenario." NHL's Billy Daly has confirmed that the entire value of the contract will count against the cap.

[Maple Leafs]

How can that be Pronger's year-by-year deal, though? I thought the CBA said that salary could only drop 50% year-to-year?

[Draft Dodger]

sure does look like Philly screwed up here

[Honolulu_Blue]

How can that be Pronger's year-by-year deal, though? I thought the CBA said that salary could only drop 50% year-to-year?

That's a good question.

I just looked at Zetterberg's, Franzen's and Hossa's contracts on nhlnumbers.com. Near the end of their deals, both Zetterberg's and Hossa's contracts fall by more than 50%. Zetterberg's goes from $3.5 or so to $1 and Hossa's goes from $4 to $1 in one year. Franzen's declines more gradually, never being reduced by more than 50%.

[Draft Dodger]

it's 50% of the lower of the 1st 2 years. So in Pronger's case, it can't decrease by more than $3.8 million in any year. (article 50.7)

[Draft Dodger]

and yes, I did have to look that up

[TurnerONU22]

I don't think Philly screwed up here, they needed to get Pronger signed to an extension and they needed the lowest cap hit possible. They're taking a chance that in the next 5 years, they'll be able to raise the Cup. After that, they'll probably try to move him to a team that has the cap space, but a smaller budget.

There's a lot of things that can happen in the next 5 years. I still don't think its the best deal, but I think its the best deal they could do for being up against the cap. I don't think that Holmgren didn't know the CBA.

[Dr. Sak]

sure does look like Philly screwed up here

Yeah the Flyers fucked up. I owe SR.

They end up trading him or having some South Philly goon hit him with a crecent wrench to put him on the LTIR.

[bhlloy]

I think Pronger can definitely play effectively until he's 41. The way he plays and the fact that he's a freak of nature probably means he'll play as long as Chelios if he really wants to. Nobody ever seems to get a clean hit on him (insert joke about the fact he never gets a "clean" hit on anyone else either here)

Whether he'll stay motivated that long is another question. I'm guessing the chances of him staying motivated in Philly are pretty much zero, but the Flyers should have no problem moving him when he's in his late 30's as he should still be playing pretty well IMO. So I don't think it's the worst contract in the world...

[bbor]

Why would the 'Monster" sign a deal this season when he is under the rookie cap and then be a RFA next season?

Why not wait a year(as i am sure he could make $900 000 in the swedish league) and then sign a LTD when he turns 25?

Makes more sense to me.

[DeToxRox]

Hudler to Russia apparently. There is confusion since he filed for arbitration this weekend but seems like he is gone. I figured he was gone going into the offseason. His point totals don't justify a big deal at all mainly because Babs didn't trust him to log more then 14 minutes a night and totally demoted him in the SCF. Good guy bit not worth the salary.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Everyone is basically looking at the situation as if the wings have two options: 1) Keep Hossa and let Samuelsson and Hulder walk or 2) Keep Hudler and Samuelsson and let Hossa walk.

I don't think it's quite that simple. Obviously if the Wings keep Hossa, they wont be able to resign either of those guys. Even if Hossa walks, I am not sure both Hudler and Samuelsson coming back is a sure thing. It all depends on what these guys feel like they can get elsewhere. Samuelsson has more options as an UFA and Hudler has fewer since he's an RFA. Hudler had a pretty good year, his best ever, scoring 29 goals. He does a lot with limited ice time. That said, he only gets limited ice time because there are many limits as to what he can do. He's not a great skater. Not big. Doesn't play great defense. He's got a good knack for the puck, sees the ice pretty well and good on the power play. I just can't see the Wings paying him anymore than $2 million a year, tops. They already have Cleary and Filpulla just above that and I'm not sure how many 3rd line/power play forwards who play around 10-12 minutes a game one can be willing to pay $2+ million. You already have Holmstrom getting paid at around that level.

Just as I predcited... Wise, am I.

[DataKing]

The question now is what can they find in the way of a bargain winger to fill the hole in their lineup? I have to assume they're going to want some experience, since they'll already be bringing up the three "kids" who saw significant time during the playoffs.

[DeToxRox]

I am pretty sure SD deleted my post on page 2 about predicting Hudler to Dynamo. Yeah .... that's it.

[NoSkillz]

Versteeg gets $9 million over three years.

It's going to be nice to see Patrick Kane in his hometown of Buffalo next year since Chicago won't be able to afford him :P

[Honolulu_Blue]

I am pretty sure SD deleted my post on page 2 about predicting Hudler to Dynamo. Yeah .... that's it.

Don't worry, DeTox. I remember it.

I like Jiri Hudler. He's a smiley, jolly little guy who has good hands and tends to score a lot given his limited ice time. It'd be rough to lose him, since that would mean the Wings have lost around 70 goals worth of offense and have done nothing to replace it, but I if it's Hudler at $3 million or no Hudler, I will take the latter.

The Wings do need to find a winger who can score, but is willing to take around $2 million or less. That will be very hard to find. None of the potential names out there do anything for me: Satan, Sykora, Kotalik, Mark Parrish, Afinogenov, Jason Williams, etc.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Koivu to the Ducks for $3.25 million. Koivu and Selanne give the Ducks a decent second line behind Perry-Getzlaf-Ryan.

That said, without Pronger and Beauchemin their defense isn't quite as intimidating as it once was.

[Galaxy]

Versteeg gets $9 million over three years.

It's going to be nice to see Patrick Kane in his hometown of Buffalo next year since Chicago won't be able to afford him :P

And the Sabres will? :)

[RomaGoth]

Heh, maybe the Wings can sign him and effectively given up Hossa for Kane. Personally, I would take Kane because of his youth and potential. Don't see it happening, but it is a nice thought.

[DeToxRox]

Whoever gets Kane will be giving up a lot in the way of compensation and honestly I am not sure he is worth it for most teams, mainly because I don't see him as a franchise player. I might get shit for this but the kid is expendable in the long run. He is Paul Kariya; great offensive player, can lead a team into the playoffs but how much further can you get if he is your best player?

Toews meanwhile is a kid I thing is sensational. He is a guy who makes everyone on that team better and is a leader on and off the ice that the guys follow. He's more in the Yzerman, Sakic ilk. I think he is going to be a special, special player with or without Kane. I don't think you can say that about Kane without Toews.

[Galaxy]

Whoever gets Kane will be giving up a lot in the way of compensation and honestly I am not sure he is worth it for most teams, mainly because I don't see him as a franchise player. I might get shit for this but the kid is expendable in the long run. He is Paul Kariya; great offensive player, can lead a team into the playoffs but how much further can you get if he is your best player?

Toews meanwhile is a kid I thing is sensational. He is a guy who makes everyone on that team better and is a leader on and off the ice that the guys follow. He's more in the Yzerman, Sakic ilk. I think he is going to be a special, special player with or without Kane. I don't think you can say that about Kane without Toews.

I do agree with you some. I don't see him as a game-changing, franchise type player. He's a very, very good player, but I'm not sold that he going to be in the league of the Crosby, Alex, Malkin, or Iginla.

[NoSkillz]

Whoever gets Kane will be giving up a lot in the way of compensation and honestly I am not sure he is worth it for most teams, mainly because I don't see him as a franchise player. I might get shit for this but the kid is expendable in the long run. He is Paul Kariya; great offensive player, can lead a team into the playoffs but how much further can you get if he is your best player?

Toews meanwhile is a kid I thing is sensational. He is a guy who makes everyone on that team better and is a leader on and off the ice that the guys follow. He's more in the Yzerman, Sakic ilk. I think he is going to be a special, special player with or without Kane. I don't think you can say that about Kane without Toews.

I concur in some respects - I definitely believe Chicago values Toews much more than Kane and that makes Kane expendable next year.

Buffalo has always been Kane's favourite team growing up and the Sabres rolled out the welcome mat when he played here last year, comping his family box seats, etc. Just the thought of Kane in a Sabres uniform has Darcy Regier and Larry Quinn squirming in their seats in delight.

I definitely see the Sabres trying to trade for him and they'll have room under the cap next year with Tallinder and a couple other guys having their deals expire.

Doesn't mean it will happen but I guarantee the team will try to make a deal, even though they usually sit on their hands and do nothing at free agent time.

[RomaGoth]

I do agree with you some. I don't see him as a game-changing, franchise type player. He's a very, very good player, but I'm not sold that he going to be in the league of the Crosby, Alex, Malkin, or Iginla.

Don't think Iginla should be listed in this group. Good player? Yes. One of the best ever? Not in my opinion. Let the flaming begin...:popcorn:

[Suburban Rhythm]

Yeah the Flyers fucked up. I owe SR.

They end up trading him or having some South Philly goon hit him with a crecent wrench to put him on the LTIR.

While I don't believe the Flyers truly fucked up, you owe me anyway ;)

Looking at it, they could NOT let him walk after the season. Even if they wanted to dump Lupul, they gave up alot in Sbisa and 2 firsts.

At that point, they needed to give Pronger enough money that he would stay. Problem there was if they wanted it limited to 3 seasons or so, they'd probably have to give him $6.5-7M per, and that wouldn't fit under the cap. So, they had to get creative and take a chance.

And thinking as Holmgren, either this move puts Philly over the top and he wins a Cup and is a hero...or it fails, Pronger falls apart and they are left with this dead cap hit, and Holmgren is gone anyway and doesn't have to deal with it.

On the bright side, you shouldn't have any trouble finding a South Philly goon. :D

[Suburban Rhythm]

Don't worry, DeTox. I remember it.

I like Jiri Hudler. He's a smiley, jolly little guy who has good hands and tends to score a lot given his limited ice time. It'd be rough to lose him, since that would mean the Wings have lost around 70 goals worth of offense and have done nothing to replace it, but I if it's Hudler at $3 million or no Hudler, I will take the latter.

The Wings do need to find a winger who can score, but is willing to take around $2 million or less. That will be very hard to find. None of the potential names out there do anything for me: Satan, Sykora, Kotalik, Mark Parrish, Afinogenov, Jason Williams, etc.

If you could morph a Parrish-Kotalik lovechild, you'd have a Wings. Parrish plays hard, but is well past his expiration date. Kotalik has skill, but so damn soft for a 220 lb guy.

[johnnyshaka]

Don't think Iginla should be listed in this group. Good player? Yes. One of the best ever? Not in my opinion. Let the flaming begin...:popcorn:

Far from a Flames fan but I do think Iggy does belong in this conversation...and this guy thinks so, too:

http://www.hockeyanalytics.com/Research_files/2008_NHL_Review.pdf

This guy has Iggy as the 3rd best forward during '03-'08 seasons behind Dats and Big Joe.

[Dr. Sak]

While I don't believe the Flyers truly fucked up, you owe me anyway ;)



Actually they did fuck up. Their lawyers told them that it was and under 35 deal according to the CBA. But I agree with you, they needed to lock him up.

He does only make 500k in each of his last 2 years so they could dump him to a team maybe needing to make the cap floor cause his cap hit would still be about 5 mil.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Actually they did fuck up. Their lawyers told them that it was and under 35 deal according to the CBA. But I agree with you, they needed to lock him up.

He does only make 500k in each of his last 2 years so they could dump him to a team maybe needing to make the cap floor cause his cap hit would still be about 5 mil.

That is rough to take, even as a Flyers hater.

How do they not run that past the league offices before putting pen to paper? Every has (or should) a cap guy who should have been able to tell them that.

[Draft Dodger]

That is rough to take, even as a Flyers hater.

How do they not run that past the league offices before putting pen to paper? Every has (or should) a cap guy who should have been able to tell them that.

extremely enjoyable to me. I love that other teams can fuck up as much as my own

[Galaxy]

Far from a Flames fan but I do think Iggy does belong in this conversation...and this guy thinks so, too:

http://www.hockeyanalytics.com/Research_files/2008_NHL_Review.pdf

This guy has Iggy as the 3rd best forward during '03-'08 seasons behind Dats and Big Joe.

I think Iggy belongs. Has he ever had the supporting cast that the Pens' stars or Oveckie have? Plus, Iggy does some excellent things in terms of leadership and physical play that can't be measure in terms of stats.

[Galaxy]

I concur in some respects - I definitely believe Chicago values Toews much more than Kane and that makes Kane expendable next year.

Buffalo has always been Kane's favourite team growing up and the Sabres rolled out the welcome mat when he played here last year, comping his family box seats, etc. Just the thought of Kane in a Sabres uniform has Darcy Regier and Larry Quinn squirming in their seats in delight.

I definitely see the Sabres trying to trade for him and they'll have room under the cap next year with Tallinder and a couple other guys having their deals expire.

Doesn't mean it will happen but I guarantee the team will try to make a deal, even though they usually sit on their hands and do nothing at free agent time.



Aren't the Sabres pretty invested in terms of cap space with guys like TC, Miller, Pommers, Vanek, Roy, ect. for the next few years? You'll have around $7.5 million in free money when Tallinder, Lydman, and Paetsch. Lalime is off the books next year (Enroth will likely take over the back-up position). Of course, we'll have to pick up two players to fill in (I'm guessing last year's 1st round pick Tyler Myers will be groomed to take over at one spot).

[NoSkillz]

Aren't the Sabres pretty invested in terms of cap space with guys like TC, Miller, Pommers, Vanek, Roy, ect. for the next few years? You'll have around $7.5 million in free money when Tallinder, Lydman, and Paetsch. Lalime is off the books next year (Enroth will likely take over the back-up position). Of course, we'll have to pick up two players to fill in (I'm guessing last year's 1st round pick Tyler Myers will be groomed to take over at one spot).

Well, they'll likely have to trade one of their top players anyway to get Kane - Roy or Pominville are definitely trade bait in that scenario, along with picks and prospects.

Trust me - they'll make room if the opportunity presents itself. Kane would sell tickets and lots of merchandise in the Queen City.

[Chief Rum]

Koivu to the Ducks for $3.25 million. Koivu and Selanne give the Ducks a decent second line behind Perry-Getzlaf-Ryan.

That said, without Pronger and Beauchemin their defense isn't quite as intimidating as it once was.

Obviously, there's no question the Ducks' blueline looks worse. That said, Niedermayer is still a top #1 D-man, Whitney is an effective PP QB, and Wiz is a solid all around D-man. Add in Sbisa, who played well for the Flyers last year, and 4-5 young defensemen who all have some talent in Festerling, Salcido, Mikkelssen, Mitera, etc., and I think they'll be okay, and will get better as the season goes by. Plus, my guess is, as the summer advances a decent vet will become available for cheap as cap room runs out everywhere.

[Fidatelo]

I hate Vancouver more than any other Canadian team actually. I think anytime I was paying attention to hockey a lot, the Canucks were beating the Jets. I remember one game where it was the 3rd period of a playoff game, and Vancouver just tied it to seemingly send it to overtime... then on a face-off in the Jets' end with a few seconds left, Vancouver won the draw and fired at the net. The puck actually went in, but I think the time ran out before it crossed or something? Anyway, I remember the replay being shown so many times and it just crushed me. I don't even remember who won that game, but I'll be safe and guess Vancouver.


I finally found the game we were both thinking of! I was wrong, it wasn't the game 6 in '92, it was game 6 the following year, same two teams. Here is the write-up on Wikipedia:

"Back in Winnipeg on April 29, the rabid fans were determined to send the series to a decisive seventh game, and the teams battled to another 3–3 deadlock with 3.4 seconds to play and a faceoff deep in Winnipeg's end. The Canucks won the draw and Sergio Momesso (http://operationsports.com/wiki/Sergio_Momesso) managed a shot on goal, which sneaked through Bob Essensa and into the net as time expired. The Canucks jumped off the bench, thinking they had won the game and the series, but a lengthy video review was unable to determine if the puck had crossed the line before time expired and it was ruled no goal. Eight minutes in to overtime Greg Adams (http://operationsports.com/wiki/Greg_%22Gus%22_Adams) drove hard to the Winnipeg net and was brought down by a Winnipeg backchecker. As he went down, the puck hit his skate and went into the net. Another replay was ordered, but this time a goal was awarded and the Canucks had won the series. There was little on-ice celebrating, though, as the incensed Winnipeg fans began littering the ice with debris, and so the teams quickly shook hands and vacated the playing surface."

1992–93 Vancouver Canucks season - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992-93_Vancouver_Canucks_season)

I was definitely there, I remember people throwing crap on the ice and my friends and I being pretty disappointed in that. We were pretty upset about the call though, I remember it being absolute BS.

[MikeVic]

Awesome that you found it. That was definitely the earliest sports heartbreak I can remember (maybe there were ones earlier, but I forget them). I hated Vancouver so much after that.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Eight minutes in to overtime Greg Adams (http://operationsports.com/wiki/Greg_%22Gus%22_Adams) drove hard to the Winnipeg net and was brought down by a Winnipeg backchecker.

I have a signed photograph of Greg Adams.

There used to be this wrestler in the WCCW back in the day called "The Gentleman" Chris Adams. I think he was British or something. So, we started to refer to Greg Adams as "The Gentleman" Greg Adams whenever we played Sega hockey or strat-o-matic.

A friend of mine worked for the Dallas Stars while Adams was playing for them. He told Adams about the nickname and he thought it was pretty funny and signed the photo "The Gentleman" Greg Adams.

That's all I have to add to this.

Edit: Just wiki'd the wrestler Chris Adams. Wow, I had no idea that things ended so poorly for him.

[bbor]

[QUOTE=Honolulu_Blue;2068444]I have a signed photograph of Greg Adams.

There used to be this wrestler in the WCCW back in the day called "The Gentleman" Chris Adams. I think he was British or something. So, we started to refer to Greg Adams as "The Gentleman" Greg Adams whenever we played Sega hockey or strat-o-matic.

QUOTE]

Geek!:D

[Maple Leafs]

I was definitely there, I remember people throwing crap on the ice and my friends and I being pretty disappointed in that. We were pretty upset about the call though, I remember it being absolute BS.
You're still mad about one bad call from a playoff game in 1993?

Dude, get over it.

[Pyser]

ok, hockey fans

last night at trivia the final round was name the 11 hockey teams that have won the stanley cup 3 times or more.

i got all 11 right, according to the quizmaster...but have a sneaking suspicion their question was flawed, because the cup is kind of a mess before, what, the mid 20s?

without looking it up, what 11 would you guys come up with?

[DataKing]

People still curse Bucky Dent's name too.

[DataKing]

ok, hockey fans

last night at trivia the final round was name the 11 hockey teams that have won the stanley cup 3 times or more.

i got all 11 right, according to the quizmaster...but have a sneaking suspicion their question was flawed, because the cup is kind of a mess before, what, the mid 20s?

without looking it up, what 11 would you guys come up with?

My guesses would be: Detroit, Pittsburgh, Toronto, NY Rangers, Montreal, Edmonton, Minnesota/Dallas, Quebec/Colorado, Boston, New Jersey, and Chicago.

[Pyser]

for the sake of confusion, i wouldnt count teams that moved. the avalanche are not the nordiques, for example

[Fidatelo]

My guesses would be: Detroit, Pittsburgh, Toronto, NY Rangers, Montreal, Edmonton, Minnesota/Dallas, Quebec/Colorado, Boston, New Jersey, and Chicago.

Minnesota/Dallas have only won one, and Quebec Colorado two, I believe.

NYI should be on that list. Philly has 2 for sure... I don't know that they ever got a 3rd though.

So I know for sure:

Detroit, Chicago, NYR, Boston, Montreal, Toronto, NYI, Pittsburgh, NJ EDIT: + Edmonton

That leaves 2 others that I can't account for, 1 if Philly did indeed get 3.

[Fidatelo]

Dola

Oops, left Edmonton off. So only 1 more unaccounted for.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Minnesota/Dallas have only won one, and Quebec Colorado two, I believe.

NYI should be on that list. Philly has 2 for sure... I don't know that they ever got a 3rd though.

So I know for sure:

Detroit, Chicago, NYR, Boston, Montreal, Toronto, NYI, Pittsburgh, NJ

That leaves 2 others that I can't account for, 1 if Philly did indeed get 3.

Montreal, Detroit, Rangers, Boston, Chicago, Toronto, Islanders, Penguins, Oilers, Devils...

I know those 10 for sure.

Is it some weird team from back in the day? Like some defunct team from like Vancouver or Hamilton or Ottawa or something?

[Fidatelo]

You're still mad about one bad call from a playoff game in 1993?

Dude, get over it.

Hahaha!
http://img161.imageshack.us/i/fraserposter2sb8.jpg
Imageshack - Error (http://img161.imageshack.us/i/fraserposter2sb8.jpg)
http://img161.imageshack.us/i/fraserposter2sb8.jpg/

[DataKing]

I'm second-guessing myself on the Devils now...and the Islanders were definitely an oversight on my part (those late 70s-early 80s teams).

[johnnyshaka]

detroit, pittsburgh, toronto, montreal, edmonton, NYR, NYI, boston, chicago, ottawa, and New Jersey??

[DataKing]

Ottawa doesn't sound right to me...but if not them, then who are we missing?

[Pyser]

detroit, pittsburgh, toronto, montreal, edmonton, NYR, NYI, boston, chicago, ottawa, and New Jersey??

thats what i went with, and it was called right. but really, none of those early other team didnt win 3? like some team in rochester, or a 2nd montreal team?

i guess i should look it up, but thought this would be a good place to ask first

[johnnyshaka]

I was there the night they raised the stanley cup banners in Ottawa...it's Ottawa. They won it several times WAY back when.

[johnnyshaka]

thats what i went with, and it was called right. but really, none of those early other team didnt win 3? like some team in rochester, or a 2nd montreal team?

i guess i should look it up, but thought this would be a good place to ask first

You're right...the wording could've been better...something like current NHL teams (which the Senators are) and that would dismiss teams like the Winnipeg Victorias or the Montreal Maroons.

[Maple Leafs]

Original six + Ottawa, Edmonth, NYI, Devils and Pens.

[Pyser]

so when did the cup become THE cup? and when did they start engraving teams and player names?

[johnnyshaka]

Legends of Hockey - NHL Trophies - Stanley Cup (http://www.hhof.com/legendsofhockey/html/silver_splashstanleycup.htm)

[Pyser]

that makes it sound like the cup era really started in 1926....and ottawa only won once since then.

oh well. i should just be happy i got it and shut up.

[Fidatelo]

that makes it sound like the cup era really started in 1926....and ottawa only won once since then.

oh well. i should just be happy i got it and shut up.

More correctly the 'NHL era' began in 1926. The Cup has been around since the late 1800's and that's why Ottawa counts.

I've always been curious as to how the NHL got sole rights to the cup. I'd love to see some team from Europe or Russia try to dig up an obscure document that would somehow legally let them (and other) clubs try to compete for it as well.

[Draft Dodger]

for the sake of confusion, i wouldnt count teams that moved. the avalanche are not the nordiques, for example

wouldn't matter. Quebec never won one, 2 for Colorado

[Pyser]

yeah, but winnipeg and phoe....er, hartford and caro.....or minnesota and dal....damnit!

[johnnyshaka]

Since 1910, when the National Hockey Association took possession of the Stanley Cup, the trophy has been symbolic of professional hockey supremacy. Beginning in 1926, only NHL teams have competed for this prized trophy.

Quoted from the link I posted above...the Senators were part of the NHL or NHA between '10-'26 and won the Cup versus the Pacific Coast Hockey League winners (read about the NHL/NHA vs. PCHL I think on wikipedia).

[Suburban Rhythm]

Kotalik to the Ranger, $9M over 3

Boynton to the Ducks, $1.5M for 1

Also, Tampa signs Hedman and signs Kurtis Foster. So after learning last year you should sign 84 forwards and no defense, they have changed their ways...and signed 76 defense this summer, and no forwards.

July 2010-- goaltenders

[Logan]

Kotalik to the Ranger, $9M over 3

See ya Zherdev.

[bbor]

Kotalik to the Ranger, $9M over 3

Boynton to the Ducks, $1.5M for 1

Also, Tampa signs Hedman and signs Kurtis Foster. So after learning last year you should sign 84 forwards and no defense, they have changed their ways...and signed 76 defense this summer, and no forwards.

July 2010-- goaltenders

Brian Burke is Tampas GM too??

[Honolulu_Blue]

What about Jay McKee? I completely lost track of him after he went to St. Louis and was injured all the time, but before all of that, he was a pretty solid defender in Buffalo and a great shot blocker.

Given his recent history, I imagine he could be had for a reasonable amount.

Jay McKee signs with Pittsburgh at a very reasonable $800K one year deal. If he stays healthy, it's a great signing and should help coushin the blow from the loss of Scuderi and Gill.

[Fidatelo]

See ya Zherdev.

Is Zherdev a free agent? And do you really think that Kotalik is a decent replacement? That dude seems like a stiff to me (not that Zherdev is hot shit either, but still). I can't believe their going to pay 3 mil a year for a guy to put up 40 points and a negative +/-...

[Chief Rum]

Ducks have made some nice moves on a tight budget.

Looks like Lupul--Getzlaf--Perry, and Ryan--Koivu--Selanne on the top two lines, and Ebbett and Christensen also around to provide some offensive pop. Marchant, Noki, Carter, Miller, Brown--a solid checking line group.

Now the D has Nieds, Wiz (after arb), Whitney and Boynton as a Top 4 D, with a whole host of talented kids ready to fill in the third pairing, including Sbisa, Salcido, Mitera, Festerling, Mikelssen.

Plenty of talent at both ends for special teams.

And Hiller and Jiggy return in net. San Jose has to take a step back, and if they do, that's a Ducks team that can catch them.

[Dr. Sak]

If the Ducks can afford it (not money but with talent), I think it'd be best for them to let Sbisa play a year in the AHL. He's going to be good but I think a year in the minors would really help his development.

You also want to keep an eye on Lupul and keep him away from the local high schools and college hot spots if you want him to be coherent for games the next night.

[RomaGoth]

I thought he was a good goalie...err, at least in EHM '07 he was. Now he is a backup in Tampa? :confused:

NHL free agents: Antero Niittymaki signed by Tampa Bay Lightning - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=4319101)

[Honolulu_Blue]

Travis Moen to the Habs. 3 years.

Paul Mara also signed a 1 year deal with Montreal.

Brendan Morrison signs a 1 year deal with the Capitals.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Jay McKee signs with Pittsburgh at a very reasonable $800K one year deal. If he stays healthy, it's a great signing and should help coushin the blow from the loss of Scuderi and Gill.

That is a steal. Doesn't hurt that he's getting $1.3M from St Louis to go away.

Something that jumped out at me about it-- Scuderi 30, McKee 31. Seems like Jay McKee should be like 40 by now.

Travis Moen to the Habs. 3 years.

Paul Mara also signed a 1 year deal with Montreal.

Brendan Morrison signs a 1 year deal with the Capitals.

What better- Morrison or Nylander?

[Suburban Rhythm]

Is Zherdev a free agent? And do you really think that Kotalik is a decent replacement? That dude seems like a stiff to me (not that Zherdev is hot shit either, but still). I can't believe their going to pay 3 mil a year for a guy to put up 40 points and a negative +/-...

Zherdev is an RFA, but wants $3M+

Add to it the Rangers now have Gaborik, Kotalik and Callahan on the right side...

They'll either move him now, or walk away from his arbitration salary.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Something that jumped out at me about it-- Scuderi 30, McKee 31. Seems like Jay McKee should be like 40 by now.

I, too, was surprised at how young McKee still is.

[Logan]

Zherdev is an RFA, but wants $3M+

Add to it the Rangers now have Gaborik, Kotalik and Callahan on the right side...

They'll either move him now, or walk away from his arbitration salary.

He actually wants $4M+...if that's the award, they'll walk, but yeah I expect him to be sent out. Packaged with Roszival would be great.

[Dr. Sak]

I thought he was a good goalie...err, at least in EHM '07 he was. Now he is a backup in Tampa? :confused:

NHL free agents: Antero Niittymaki signed by Tampa Bay Lightning - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=4319101)

He's got hip problems, Homer had offers for him at the deadline last year but knew he had hip issues. He said he didn't want to trade damaged goods to other teams.

He also has problems with shots going over his shoulders all the time since he is quick to go down.

[Suburban Rhythm]

He actually wants $4M+...if that's the award, they'll walk, but yeah I expect him to be sent out. Packaged with Roszival would be great.

Are you attaching a few 1st round picks to that??

[Logan]

Are you attaching a few 1st round picks to that??

You realize the Rangers got a solid young winger and a top defensive prospect for guy with a much worse contract and worse skills?

I'd have no problem keeping Roszival, he was actually fairly solid last year and the price isn't terrible. There's a market for him.

[Suburban Rhythm]

You realize the Rangers got a solid young winger and a top defensive prospect for guy with a much worse contract and worse skills?

I'd have no problem keeping Roszival, he was actually fairly solid last year and the price isn't terrible. There's a market for him.

Are we talking about Gomez? Cause yeah his contract is worse, but Zherdev will be lucky if he has Gomez's career at this point.

Rozsival is a good #4 guy. He was always hurt in Pittsburgh, but showed potential. He was often tabbed as their future top pairing guy, but he never could stay healthy.

And $5M? Nice for a top pairing guy, but not a #4.

We are talking a combined $9M for a 2nd pairing D and 2nd lin winger.

[Chief Rum]

If the Ducks can afford it (not money but with talent), I think it'd be best for them to let Sbisa play a year in the AHL. He's going to be good but I think a year in the minors would really help his development.

You also want to keep an eye on Lupul and keep him away from the local high schools and college hot spots if you want him to be coherent for games the next night.

There's a pretty decent chance Sbisa won't be on the team out of camp actually. On top of the top four I mentioned, the Ducks are also bringing back Brookbank, who played well enough (and is a vet) to play in the third pairing, and both Festerling and Mikkelssen played more NHL games than Sbisa last year, and aren't bad. Salcido might also be ready, and he was considered the most talented of the Ducks' younger D-men at one point.

As for Lupes, well, we've already been down that road with him. As long as he hangs with Getz and Perry (which he used to do when he was here before), he'll usually be second or third choice, so hopefully that keeps him upright. ;)

[Dr. Sak]

You realize the Rangers got a solid young winger and a top defensive prospect for guy with a much worse contract and worse skills?
.

You also traded him to a team who's GM is a retarded gorilla.

[Suburban Rhythm]

You also traded him to a team who's GM is a retarded gorilla.

That's unfair...





to gorillas.

[bbor]

Why did Mckee get bought out/released from St.L?

Guy was lights out his last years in Buf.I'm actually surprised Buf did'nt sign him at that price,he was a fan favorite there.

[Dr. Sak]

http://njmg.typepad.com/d...e-a-head-coach-today.html

Devils to name a head coach today

The Devils have scheduled a 1:30 p.m. conference all today to make "a major announcement."

It is expected that they name a head coach at that time.

All signs point to Jacques Lemaire

This will be Lemaire's second stint as the team's head coach. He coached them from 1993-94 to 1997-98 and guided them to their first Stanley Cup in 1995.

Lemaire, who will turn 64 in September, coached the Minnesota Wild for the last nine years,but stepped down following the 2008-09 season.

According to a report from RDS in Canada, Lemaire's good friend Mario Tremblay will be joining him in New Jersey as an assiistant. Tremblay also was an assistant under Lemaire in Minnesota.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Why did Mckee get bought out/released from St.L?

Guy was lights out his last years in Buf.I'm actually surprised Buf did'nt sign him at that price,he was a fan favorite there.

I think he had been moving down on the depth chart over the last few years, mainly becuase of injuries. The Blues must have decided that they couldn't afford to keep a 3rd, 4th, or possibly even 5th defense who couldn't stay healthy at around $4 million or so a year.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Two moves by the Rangers:

Ryan Callahan gets 2 years, $4.6M total.

Rangers trade Lauri Korpikoski to Phoenix for Enver Lisin

Not sure what to make of that deal. Lisin has the upside- he's got ridiculous speed and probably better offensive talent. But he could also bust big time; the Rangers might have Rico Fata pt II.

Korpikoski is pretty much a bottom 6 guy, but a PKer and you know what you'll get with him.

I guess the Rangers hoping for a boom with Lisin.

[Logan]

Korpedo was fun to watch, but I think you hit it on the description...just not enough upside and we have enough of those guys. There was some thought he was headed to the KHL.

Callahan got about what was thought.

[samifan24]

Rangers trade Lauri Korpikoski to Phoenix for Enver Lisin

I like this move for the Rangers. They deal an average penalty killing forward for a high upside speedster. Lisin could develop into a pretty good goal scorer.

[Fidatelo]

I also like this deal for the Rangers. They don't lack for 3rd liners.

[Neuqua]

The Blackhawks fired GM Dale Tallon according to some reports?

Huh?

[Draft Dodger]

apparently, although none of the big ones seem to have this yet
The Fourth Period :: Chicago Blackhawks :: Blackhawks fire GM Tallon (http://thefourthperiod.com/news/chi090714.html)

[Logan]

First GM fired for a mailing issue?

[sterlingice]

First GM fired for a mailing issue?

Pretty expensive mailing issue. It's like forgetting to mail in a lottery ticket. And it's going to look really expensive this time next year :(

If true, of course

SI

[Honolulu_Blue]

First GM fired for a mailing issue?

There has to be more to it all than just that.

I'm pretty surprised by the firing. How do you fire your GM after your first playoff run in so many years and making it all the way to the conference finals?

Granted, the Blackhawks could have some difficulties after this year cap-wise, but to fire him now? Odd.

[Dr. Sak]

Ping Logan...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3016/2458625753_88c651459b.jpg

[Draft Dodger]

There has to be more to it all than just that.

I'm pretty surprised by the firing. How do you fire your GM after your first playoff run in so many years and making it all the way to the conference finals?

Granted, the Blackhawks could have some difficulties after this year cap-wise, but to fire him now? Odd.

apparently, that was just the excuse. he was from the old regime and it's been rumored that the new regime wanted to bring in their own guy.

[Logan]

I hate Malkin more.

[RomaGoth]

apparently, that was just the excuse. he was from the old regime and it's been rumored that the new regime wanted to bring in their own guy.

Kinda curious that they would do this after the free agent signing period. Why not get rid of him before hand and get their own guy in? :confused:

[Logan]

Thought this was interesting, hadn't seen it discussed:

FLYERS LIKELY WILL BE $AVED FROM OWN STUPIDITY - New York Post (http://www.nypost.com/seven/07122009/sports/moresports/flyers_likely_will_be_aved_from_own_stup_178810.htm)

Possibility of amnesty buyouts (one per team) for next summer with no cap hit to accomodate the potential shrinking cap.

[Dr. Sak]

I hate Malkin more.

Yeah he's dirty.

[Logan]

Yeah he's dirty.

So can you get cracking on that shirt please?

[Dr. Sak]

Thought this was interesting, hadn't seen it discussed:

FLYERS LIKELY WILL BE $AVED FROM OWN STUPIDITY - New York Post (http://www.nypost.com/seven/07122009/sports/moresports/flyers_likely_will_be_aved_from_own_stup_178810.htm)

Possibility of amnesty buyouts (one per team) for next summer with no cap hit to accomodate the potential shrinking cap.

Yeah either that or they will pay a team (with picks) to take him off their hands. Someone who maybe needs to get to the cap floor. His cap hit stays at 4.9 (or whatever) but will only be owed 500k in each of the last 2 years.

[Logan]

I don't see why it won't happen. With the potential of a declining cap, I would think the players would rather have all their money up front, with the potential to earn more, instead of the possibility of being sent to the minors while also freeing up said declining cap space for other players to earn their raises.

[MikeVic]

Didn't read the article, but is that kind of like the Allan Houston rule in the NBA?

[Dr. Sak]

I don't see why it won't happen. With the potential of a declining cap, I would think the players would rather have all their money up front, with the potential to earn more, instead of the possibility of being sent to the minors while also freeing up said declining cap space for other players to earn their raises.

If the cap starts declining there are going to be a lot of teams besides the Flyers in cap trouble. Then you'll start having the trouble where teams could send players (without NMC) down to the AHL to free up cap space.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I don't see why it won't happen. With the potential of a declining cap, I would think the players would rather have all their money up front, with the potential to earn more, instead of the possibility of being sent to the minors while also freeing up said declining cap space for other players to earn their raises.

As much as I don't want to see the cap to decline sharply (and new reports indicate that it might not be that bad), it would be really interesting to see what would end up happening if, say, the cap fell to $50 million or so.

I think the amnesty, one buyout or so per team, option makes a lot of sense for the teams in trouble and the players. So, I can see the NHLPA getting on board.

You would then have a market full of your regular compliment of UFAs and RGAs and all of these formerly high-priced bought out players. So, you'd have more players than usual, but a lot less money to go around. Would guys be willing to take short term, small contracts? Would they head to the KHL to make their money?

It'd sort of remind me of my EHM career (before I edited the database), where you had all of these big name guys not in the league because there was simply no money left to sign them and they wouldn't accept smaller deals that could fit within anyone's cap or budget.

[Dr. Sak]

You would then have a market full of your regular compliment of UFAs and RGAs and all of these formerly high-priced bought out players. So, you'd have more players than usual, but a lot less money to go around. Would guys be willing to take short term, small contracts? Would they head to the KHL to make their money?


The KHL has been having problems paying the players right now

[Honolulu_Blue]

The KHL has been having problems paying the players right now

Tell that to Jiri Hudler and the Moscow Dynamo.

[DataKing]

Would they head to the KHL to make their money?

This.

[RomaGoth]

It'd sort of remind me of my EHM career (before I edited the database), where you had all of these big name guys not in the league because there was simply no money left to sign them and they wouldn't accept smaller deals that could fit within anyone's cap or budget.

You still playing EHM? What year are you in now?

Tell that to Jiri Hudler and the Moscow Dynamo.

A good example of a player who thinks he is worth more than he actually is. Hudler is decent, but not near worth what he wants to be paid.

[Logan]

If the cap starts declining there are going to be a lot of teams besides the Flyers in cap trouble. Then you'll start having the trouble where teams could send players (without NMC) down to the AHL to free up cap space.

Agreed. To me, that article was about the NHL, not the Flyers, but thanks to the auto-naming of links it comes across like that. I actually meant to include a "Goodbye Wade Redden!" in there but forgot.

A hard cap + a declining cap could be really bad for even a mythically perfectly-run franchise. Make the best draft choices, they'll get paid more as time goes on, and eventually you'll be penalized for it.

[Dr. Sak]

Tell that to Jiri Hudler and the Moscow Dynamo.

Tell that to Jagr who stopped getting paid half way through the season last year.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nhl/story/9340730/Tough-economy-puts-hurt-on-KHL%27s-power-play

[Honolulu_Blue]

You still playing EHM? What year are you in now?

I haven't really played it in over a year or so now. I forget what year I was in. 2011? 2012? Something like that.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Tell that to Jagr who stopped getting paid half way through the season last year.

Tough economy puts hurt on KHL's power play - FOX Sports on MSN (http://msn.foxsports.com/nhl/story/9340730/Tough-economy-puts-hurt-on-KHL%27s-power-play)

Tell Jagr to tell Jiri Hudler.

[Logan]

You still playing EHM? What year are you in now?

If we're talking freeware EHM (which I fire up now and then) and that sim speed, he's gotta be in AT LEAST 2006.

[Logan]

They probably all communicate thru twitter anyway.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Tell that to Jagr who stopped getting paid half way through the season last year.

Tough economy puts hurt on KHL's power play - FOX Sports on MSN (http://msn.foxsports.com/nhl/story/9340730/Tough-economy-puts-hurt-on-KHL%27s-power-play)

I remember reading that. I don't think the KHL will ever be the huge threat to the NHL that some were speculating it would be. That said, if they were really having that kind of difficulty paying their players, why didn't so many players like Jagr, Radulov, etc. decide to come back to the NHL where at least they know their money is guaranteed?

The KHL will be far behind the NHL in terms of revenue and wont be able to keep up in the long term. That said, if there is a sudden cap squeeze like some were predicting what are the options for some of these guys? I don't predict a mass exodus of players to the KHL, but I think you'll likely see more guys "choosing" to go that route.

[Dr. Sak]

I look at the KHL as a place for older players to make more $$. They won't see the money in the NHL (and longer termed contract) as they will in the KHL. The KHL benefits because of their name...Jagr, Federov, Kozlov. Plus most of them are Russian or Eastern European so being closer to home might benefit.

I doubt we see Canadians or Americans head over.

[RomaGoth]

I look at the KHL as a place for older players to make more $$. They won't see the money in the NHL (and longer termed contract) as they will in the KHL. The KHL benefits because of their name...Jagr, Federov, Kozlov. Plus most of them are Russian or Eastern European so being closer to home might benefit.

I doubt we see Canadians or Americans head over.

Agreed. How many young to prime of their career NHL players actually go overseas in the first place? Not very many, if any at all. I saw an article last week about the possibility of Alexei Morozov returning to the NHL, but his agent dismissed the rumors and said he will almost certainly stay there for the remainder of his career. I am sure the NHL will do fine without guys like Hudler, Fedorov, Kozlov, Jagr, and others. Especially since most of them are at the end of their career in the best of times.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I look at the KHL as a place for older players to make more $$. They won't see the money in the NHL (and longer termed contract) as they will in the KHL. The KHL benefits because of their name...Jagr, Federov, Kozlov. Plus most of them are Russian or Eastern European so being closer to home might benefit.

I doubt we see Canadians or Americans head over.

I totally agree. I just think if you see a combination of (1) a steep cap decline in one year + (2) a glut of free agents +(3) no money to spend on them that will all = this trend shifting a bit, for at least for that one year.

[JonInMiddleGA]

My Way - Sports News (http://sports.myway.com/news/07142009/v7219.html)

CHICAGO (AP) -The Chicago Blackhawks abruptly ousted general manager Dale Tallon on Tuesday, less than two months after the team he helped revive from the bottom of the standings reached the Western Conference finals.

Tallon, who was reassigned to senior adviser of hockey operations, was replaced by assistant GM Stan Bowman, the son of legendary NHL coach Scotty Bowman. The elder Bowman was hired last year as a senior adviser.

A clerical mistake may have hastened Tallon's departure. Last week, the NHL Players Association filed a grievance against the team, saying the Blackhawks missed the deadline for sending qualifying offers to restricted free agents. The Blackhawks ended up signing all their restricted free agents, including their top rookie from last season, Kris Versteeg.

Tallon denied that the administrative problem and grievance had caused the Blackhawks to overpay the restricted free agents.

Tallon, 58, has been a member of the organization for more 30 years, including five as a player and 10 in the front office. He was named general manager in June 2005 and under his guidance, the team drafted young stars Patrick Kane and Jonathan Toews, made trades for scorers like Martin Havlat and Patrick Sharp, and signed free agents Nikolai Khabibulin, Brian Campbell and Cristobal Huet.

Last season, the Blackhawks started drawing fans back to the United Center and advanced to the playoffs for the first time in seven years, losing to the Detroit Red Wings in the conference finals.

Earlier this month, the Blackhawks signed free agent Marian Hossa from Detroit to a 12-year, $62.8 million deal. Havlat, the team's leading scorer last season, was let go and he was signed by Minnesota.

"I have been with this organization in several different capacities since coming over as a player in 1973 and although my position has changed, my goals have not," Tallon said in a statement released by the team. "I've seen Stan come up through our ranks and I'm confident he is the right person to step in. This is what is best for the Chicago Blackhawks."

Bowman, 36, has been with the team for nine years, including two seasons as the director of hockey operations and four seasons as an assistant to the GM. He called the promotion an honor.

"We will not rest until we reach our goal of winning the Stanley Cup and establishing consistent success," he said.

[Galaxy]

I remember reading that. I don't think the KHL will ever be the huge threat to the NHL that some were speculating it would be. That said, if they were really having that kind of difficulty paying their players, why didn't so many players like Jagr, Radulov, etc. decide to come back to the NHL where at least they know their money is guaranteed?

The KHL will be far behind the NHL in terms of revenue and wont be able to keep up in the long term. That said, if there is a sudden cap squeeze like some were predicting what are the options for some of these guys? I don't predict a mass exodus of players to the KHL, but I think you'll likely see more guys "choosing" to go that route.

Hasn't the economy of Russia (thanks to the drop in oil and mineral prices, along with the global near-meltdown) and the falling fortunes of Russian's wealthy kill what the KHL was going for?

[Draft Dodger]

Martin Havlat is not happy about the Tallon firing:

http://twitter.com/martinhavlat

[Fidatelo]

Martin Havlat is not happy about the Tallon firing:

http://twitter.com/martinhavlat

Did he delete a post? I don't see anything other than him saying Tallon was like a 2nd father to him, and that this is 'the tip of the iceberg'.

[Dr. Sak]

Did he delete a post? I don't see anything other than him saying Tallon was like a 2nd father to him, and that this is 'the tip of the iceberg'.

Yeah the mods got to him cause he linked to a suggestive image.

[Fidatelo]

Yeah the mods got to him cause he linked to a suggestive image.

Well that seems cunty. HAVLAT LOST POSTS!!

[Logan]

Hope Ben isn't a hockey fan!

[sterlingice]

Yeah the mods got to him cause he linked to a suggestive image.

:D

SI

[MikeVic]

Yeah the mods got to him cause he linked to a suggestive image.

Those bastards.

[Fidatelo]

Hope Ben isn't a hockey fan!

Ya, linking to twitter could get DD boxed!

That said, as long as wade moore doesn't tattle on him, I think he's safe, since it has long been established that black people don't like hockey.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Hell, if SD doesn't notice some of the recent posts in this thread on his own, I'll highlight them for him myself.

I'm not sure what part of "Further whining about this will result in punitive actions" isn't clear, nor do I get why someone would intentionally try to get themselves boxed by trolling instead of just leaving.

[Dr. Sak]

Hey Jon I was just making a joke. Ben can run his board however. But go ahead and tattle if it makes you feel better about yourself.

[MikeVic]

LOL. FOFC has been stale lately, glad to see some fun times are still to be had. :p

[Maple Leafs]

Hey Jon I was just making a joke. Ben can run his board however. But go ahead and tattle if it makes you feel better about yourself.
You forgot to add "Go Flyers!"

[Dr. Sak]

You forgot to add "Go Flyers!"

Shit thanks! Go Flyers!

[sterlingice]

EDIT: Well, never mind if people are going to go about making our NHL thread all serious and stuff :(

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

Hey Jon I was just making a joke.

One I'd call ill-advised at best, especially since it opened the door for more trolling. I'd prefer this thread not end up locked because a few people couldn't manage to play it smart.

[Logan]

There's some talk that Zherdev will ask for $5 million in arbitration.

Zero points and like 4 shots in the playoffs.

[Dr. Sak]

EDIT: Well, never mind if people are going to go about making our NHL thread all serious and stuff :(

SI

Yeah god forbid we make jokes...hell we still let Maple Leafs talk and his team has been a joke for years.

[Dr. Sak]

There's some talk that Zherdev will ask for $5 million in arbitration.

Zero points and like 4 shots in the playoffs.

Scottie Upshall wants 3 to 4 million a year. Sorry Scottie.

[Fidatelo]

One I'd call ill-advised at best, especially since it opened the door for more trolling. I'd prefer this thread not end up locked because a few people couldn't manage to play it smart.

Lighten up, Francis.

I still seriously want to understand the Havlat thing. What did he tweet that was so newsworthy?

[MikeVic]

One I'd call ill-advised at best, especially since it opened the door for more trolling. I'd prefer this thread not end up locked because a few people couldn't manage to play it smart.

Only YOU can prevent forest fires!

[MikeVic]

So are there any "good" FA left?

[JonInMiddleGA]

I still seriously want to understand the Havlat thing. What did he tweet that was so newsworthy?

I gather it would be his comments today combined with his earlier remarks about

"It's coming. What happened will be told soon.8:18 PM Jul 8th"
"Didn't leave them...they left me.10:50 PM Jul 3rd "
"There's something to be said for loyalty and honor.8:08 PM Jul 1st"

Combine that with Scotty Burnside's take (http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?columnist=burnside_scott&id=4326789) on the real reason behind the firing -- basically screw his successes, Tallon just wasn't McDonough's guy -- and that leaves me to think that Havlat is trying to point the finger for his leaving Chicago directly at McDonough & hopes that the fans will be looking for the team prez's head.

[Fidatelo]

I gather it would be his comments today combined with his earlier remarks about

"It's coming. What happened will be told soon.8:18 PM Jul 8th"
"Didn't leave them...they left me.10:50 PM Jul 3rd "
"There's something to be said for loyalty and honor.8:08 PM Jul 1st"

Combine that with Scotty Burnside's take (http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?columnist=burnside_scott&id=4326789) on the real reason behind the firing -- basically screw his successes, Tallon just wasn't McDonough's guy -- and that leaves me to think that Havlat is trying to point the finger for his leaving Chicago directly at McDonough & hopes that the fans will be looking for the team prez's head.

Meh, must be a slow news day. A bunch of foreshadowing is all I see, wake me up when the guy says something meaty.

[Fidatelo]

Only YOU can prevent forest fires!

Lol!

I don't think I've ever seen such a feistyness from MV before. We should take away the Alizee thread and see what happens!

[Honolulu_Blue]

We should take away the Alizee thread...

Don't even joke about that. It's not funny. Ever.

[MikeVic]

Lol!

I don't think I've ever seen such a feistyness from MV before. We should take away the Alizee thread and see what happens!

Hey hey hey, don't do something you'll regret now!

[Honolulu_Blue]

So are there any "good" FA left?

I think Tanguay is about it.

[MikeVic]

I think Tanguay is about it.

Do people think he might still go to Detroit? Or... Edmonton? Or it's all pretty up in the air...

[Honolulu_Blue]

Do people think he might still go to Detroit? Or... Edmonton? Or it's all pretty up in the air...

I don't think anyone really thought he'd end up in Detroit. He's sort of out their price range. Even without Hudler, the Wings only have about $1.6 million in cap space.

I heard that he was talking to Florida and before that Phoenix. Edmonton seems as likely as any place as well, I suppose.

[Maple Leafs]

I think Tanguay is about it.
Zubov?

[Suburban Rhythm]

Guess it depends on the definition of good-

Comrie, Bertuzzi, Robert Lang at forward. Maybe Sundin.

Seidenberg, Morris, Skoula are all #4/5 types

Biron still out there.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Here's the best of what's left:

Tanguay--Sundin- Sykora
Williams -Lang--Afinogenov
Pyatt-Malhotra-Satan
Bertuzzi-Betts-Grier

Extras? Your choices. Perrin, Niedermeyer, Comrie, Hinote, Shanny, Moore.

Defense:
Seidenberg-Schneider
Morris-Bergeron
Alberts-Zubov


Goaltenders:
Fernandez
Gerber
Legace
Biron

[Honolulu_Blue]

I was digging through some old emails and found some of my impressions from the 2001 Prospect Tournament. A friend and I went up there for a few days to watch some games. It was an absolute blast. Unfortunately, we haven't been able to make it back there since. This year all of the games are during the week, so a weekend trip up north wont work.

This is unedited. And, I have to say, over all my impressions of players doesn't seem any less random than any NHL scout seems to be able to formulate, though these are all guys who have already been drafted or invited as free agents.

2001...

The Wings Prospect team has just finished their third, and best, game of
the prospect tournament here in Traverse City. The team looked really
sharp tonight, downing the St. Louis Blues 4-1. Pavel Datsyuk dominated
the game tonight. He was in the middle of everything. He intercepted
countless number of passes (St. Louis really had a hard time getting out
of their own zone in this game) and made a number of great, shifty little
plays to get around opposing players. I think he had two assists and
created a number of good scoring chances. He did not seem to shy away
from the physical side of the game. I dont't know if he's ready for the
NHL, but he's easily been one of the most impressive prospects throughout the tournament this far, on any team.

Besides Datsyuk's dominance in tonight's game, Chad LaRose looked very
good, using his speed to score two goals. Groulx got a power-play goal on
a nice shot from the point. And Greg Jacina got a nice looking goal
thanks to a great pass from Datsyuk.

The game also turned out to be a physical affair as well. Forward Jason
Baird fought Brett Lutes four seconds into the second period (it looked
like Lutes tripped him right before the face-off and Baird was ticked).
Ryan Barnes fought Brent Scheffelmeir along the boards. Barnes handled
himself ok against the 6'6" monster that is Scheffelmeir. During that
fight, Brad Voth and Wings' defensemen Jeff Feniak went at it. Feniak
getting the worse of the exchange. Ryan Barnes fought Craig Weller near
the end of the game and did quite well it seemed. All in all it was a
good, intense game which was more or less dominated by the Wings.
Several players of note (other than Datsyuk) include...
Chad LaRose (winger). This kid got two goals tonight. He has some great
wheels and a decent scoring touch. He's a bit undersized, but seems to
have a good motor and played very well along side Datsyuk. He could
develope into a speedy-grinding type of player.

Paul Ballantyne (D). He's looked really good out there so far. He
definitely seems to want to do it all: score, play soild defense, etc.
Because of this, he has gotten caught out of position a number of times,
but has made some spectacular defensive plays as a result (hurrying back
to break up two on ones or foil a break away, etc.) He has decent size
and seems to make smart plays. He looked good last year, but has clearly
been one of the Wings' best players in this year's tournament and by far
their best d-man.

Steve Groulx (D). He's played pretty well. He has a nice offensive
upside and plays with a bit of an edge. He's been manning the point (with
Ballantyne) on Detroit's number one power-play unit. He's had some
defensive lapses and tends to get caught out of position a few times. He
got a nice power-play goal from the point in tonight's game.

Ryan Barnes (Winger). He's been decent. He got a goal in the first game.
Definitely a grinder. He has good physical upside and has dropped the
gloves a couple of times so far. He has made some good hits and is strong
in front of the net.

Tomas Kopecky (Winger). He's a tall rangy kid. He was great in last
year's tourney, but hasn't shown much this year. He had one nice goal in
the first game, but he's been pretty invisible save that.

Brian McGrattan (Winger). While he has pretty much no chance making the team, I have to mention him. He's a big, physical winger who backs down from no one. He's gone up against each team's "goon" in each game and those are some big fellas. He almost scored a goal tonight. He doesn't
skate all that well, but has made a number of big hits. He knocked one of
the St. Louis players unconcious right as the buzzer sounded at the end of the game. Mean Streak? Oh yes.

Drew McIntyre (Goalie). He played in Detroit's first game. He looked
really shaky. He couldn't handle rebounds and let a couple of bad goals
in. Nick Pannoni (goalie) another of Detroit's draft picks this year
played pretty well tonight against St. Louis. He wasn't tested too much,
as Detroit dominated most of the play, but he was solid when called upon.
Other highlights from the tournament:

Atlanta:
Ilya Kovalchuk has looked good, but hasn't put points on the board. He's
the fastest player here and has some great moves, but I am not sure if
he's trying to do too much on his own or what, but he's been all flash and
no show on what looked to be a highly talented Atlanta squad. Danny Heatley has looked pretty good, but Atlanta, at 0-2, has been the disappointment of the tourney. Libor Usturnul, a big defensemen playing for the Plymouth Whalers now, has also looked pretty good.

St. Louis:
Tonight they looked god AWFUL. They are 2-1 in the tournament. Forward
Jay McClement (their 2nd round pick) has looked very good. They also have a giant back on the blueline, Brent Scheffelmeir, who has played decently. He has great size and has played pretty physical, strong along the boards, good hits, some fights, so far. He's definitely a few years away, but may have a future. Brad Voth, a big forward, who was here last year looks to be one of the most improved player here. He seems to be skating well and has made some big hits. He put the beat-down on Wings' defensemen Jeff Feniak tonight.

Nashville:
I haven't had a chance to watch too much of this team. Their games have
always been opposite Detroit's. I should get a decent look tomorrow.

Minnesota:
Winger Kyle Wanvig looks like the real deal. Toronto really lost out when
their fax machine broke down at the deadline. He's got good size, a mean
streak, some good speed, and good hands. The Wings couldn't contain him
during their game against Minnesota. I wouldn't be too surprised to see
Wanvig in the NHL either this year or next, especially considering
Minnesota's lack of skill upfront. Steve Velieux, a center, has looked
really good as well. He's got some decent size and is a force along the
boards. Defensemen Travis Roche the "thinking man's defenseman" has been solid. He's the team's Captain and has played like it, showing great
poise and a bit of an offensive touch. Derek Boogeard, a 6'6", 250 lbs.
monster of a winger has been entertaining. He can't skate, pass or shoot
really. He loves to try to hit, but he usually just crashes into the
boards (much like a young Keith Primeau). Against St. Louis he went to
check a defenseman along the boards. The defenseman ducked and Boogaard shattered the glass and went flying out of the rink onto the floor below.

Columbus:
It's tough to figure out who is who as the roster in the program is all
wrong and they don't have names on their jerseys. Kiel McLeod (a big
rangy centerman) who was taken in the second round last year has looked
really good. He's solid on his skates and has scored a few goals. He
could have a future in a few years in the NHL. Trevor Ettinger, like Brad
Voth of St. Louis, is a big tough kid who has showed signs of improvement.

He's moving better this year and has had some good hits, but like other
big fellas, he's looking to make it into the NHL via his fists. It's a
dying role, really, but still has a place on some teams.

As for Datsyuk. He has looked very good. He's a shifty play-maker who
has seems to have good hockey sense. He was always in passing lanes and interdcepted a number of passes which led to good scoringe chances. He was also very good in traffic. Will he be the next Fedorov? Yzerman? I
really don't think so. He seems to be more of a play-maker than a
goal-scorer and lacks size and some speed. He could be a decent second or third line center some day though.

Barnes wont be able to replace LaPointe. He's no where near as strong as
Marty is and doesn't have that blistering shot He is definitely a hustler
and grinder and has a good physical edge, but I wouldn't look for him to
score 20 goals in a season. He is a bit undisciplined and has had
concussion problems in the past.

Other Notes:

Ilya Kovalchuk and Dan Heatly looked /very/ good for Atlanta today. I
wouldn't be surprised to see both of them in the NHL at some time this
year.

Detroit will play either Minnesota, Atlanta or Nashville tomorrow for
either fifth or third place. I am not sure how it all works, but Columbus
is 3-0, St. Louis is 2-1, and Atlanta, Nashville, Minnesota and Detroit
are all 1-2.

[bhlloy]

Nice... a Brad Voth sighting. Now playing for my hometown Cardiff Devils in the UK (for the last 3 or 4 years I think) Very popular guy and a great enforcer/team player.