Cyclist teammate hit by car

[WheelsVT]

A teammate and friend of mine was hit by a car on his way to work Tuesday. He's ok, but will require surgery on his hip to make sure a hip replacement is not in his future. 10 weeks before he can put weight on it.

Bike shop owner faces long recovery (http://www.forsythnews.com/news/article/2806/)

See the comments too. Other cyclists are defending him, but I find it interesting how some drivers don't seem to consider cyclists as people and they're always at fault even when the cyclist follows the law and was struck from behind. I wish they would just slow down and wait 15 sec to pass safely.

It took a UPS driver corroborating Todd's story before the police would charge the driver with anything and only 1 of the many witnesses came to his aid after he was hit.

[DaddyTorgo]

cuz drivers suck

my buddy got hit-n-run while he was biking home from work by a car pulling out that broke his arm, and the douche drove off through boston completely unconcerned

[spleen1015]

Let me ask you something.

How come cyclists ride on the street when there is a sidewalk there as well? Maybe I don't know cycling protocol or something.

[Schmidty]

Cyclists annoy the crap out of me a lot of times because they seem to think they own the road. Sorry to hear about your friend though. Hope he gets better soon.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Let me ask you something.

How come cyclists ride on the street when there is a sidewalk there as well? Maybe I don't know cycling protocol or something.

Most states don't allow bicycles on sidewalks. They're for pedestrians. That doesn't keep some people from doing it, but you're not supposed to in most places.

[illinifan999]

Let me ask you something.

How come cyclists ride on the street when there is a sidewalk there as well? Maybe I don't know cycling protocol or something.

In Carbondale, it's illegal to ride your bike through a crosswalk so a lot of cyclists just stay on the road to avoid having to get off and walk their bikes across an intersection. There was a kid that got hit by a car when he rode his bike through a crosswalk and ended up getting a ticket.

[molson]

Sorry to hear that.

The tension between drivers and bikers seems to be heating up - it definitely is in Boise. There's a lot of blanket opinions on both sides. Bad drivers/bikers both give their respective groups a bad name.

It sounds like this driver wasn't paying attention to the biker's hand signal and should be cited on that grounds alone, but I'm surprised that passing a bike in that situation counts as "passing in a non-passing zone". Are drivers supposed to just sit behind bikers for (potentially) miles in non-passing zones?

It seems to be a growing trend in Boise for (some) bikers to ride in a row, instead of single file, which complicates things further.

[miked]

I have known lots of people around my area who have been hit by cars while biking. It's a terrible problem, and I'm not about to challenge Clairmont Road or something on my bike. It is also illegal to bike on the sidewalk. There have been some bike lanes put up but I'm sort of torn on it. As a biker, I would like to have some space and be protected (Cambridge was great about this, Boston not so much). But at the same time, do bikes belong on Buford Highway or something like that where the speed limit is 45+? I understand you have to share the road, and I hardly ever pass bikers, especially on local one-lane roads. But in Atlanta, you have large 2-3 lane roads at times where the speed limit is 45-50 mph. Also, most people are already frustrated with traffic on the highways, they get off and tend to speed to make up for it. Not saying it's right, just some problems that bikers face.

Obviously the guy is a d-bag, as is the idiot posting about learning how to use the crosswalk. But one thing I've realized from my time in Atlanta is that most rednecks have no idea how to follow traffic rules. I've seen people trying to make left turns out of strip malls across 4 lanes of traffic (with no-left turn signs), people frequently turning through double yellow lines, speeding like crazy, and rushing into a backed up intersection when the light turns yellow only to block the entire intersection for the duration of the light. Nothing surprises me.

[miked]

Let me ask you something.

How come cyclists ride on the street when there is a sidewalk there as well? Maybe I don't know cycling protocol or something.

I was actually stopped by a cop once here in the A who reminded me it was illegal. When I pointed him to the speeding cars that seemed to have no care that there was a cop around, let alone a biker, he smiled and told me to carry on. But I believe he said the offense is $100.

[WheelsVT]

I actually had that question from a guy at my work.
Typically cycling on the sidewalk is illegal... I think.

Why can't cyclists ride on the sidewalk!? - Yahoo! Answers (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080731134742AACw81i)

The biggest reason is that we're going anywhere from 10-40mph and would be too dangerous on a sidewalk... if it exists. Most places I ride don't have a sidewalk and if there is one I'd have to stop to get on it, go a few hundred feet, and then get back on the road again.

[WheelsVT]

Cyclists annoy the crap out of me a lot of times because they seem to think they own the road. Sorry to hear about your friend though. Hope he gets better soon.

I have to agree that there are times on my group rides where the guys I'm with are not staying as close to the right as they could. It annoys me as a fellow cyclist b/c I know it annoys the drivers behind to no end.

[molson]

I actually had that question from a guy at my work.
Typically cycling on the sidewalk is illegal... I think.

Why can't cyclists ride on the sidewalk!? - Yahoo! Answers (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080731134742AACw81i)

The biggest reason is that we're going anywhere from 10-40mph and would be too dangerous on a sidewalk... if it exists. Most places I ride don't have a sidewalk and if there is one I'd have to stop to get on it, go a few hundred feet, and then get back on the road again.

This is one of those things that's different for every street and town so it's tough to have a blanket rule. There's definitely places where riding on the sidewalk would be a billion times safer than riding in the road.

[DaddyTorgo]

This is one of those things that's different for every street and town so it's tough to have a blanket rule. There's definitely places where riding on the sidewalk would be a billion times safer than riding in the road.

would it be safer to the pedestrians having to jump out of the way all the time too though? don't forget that part of the equation

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I can understand the anger towards cyclists. From my experience, more often then not cyclists use the "rules of the road" argument when it suits them. They also run red lights, etc, when it suits them as well.

It is certainly unfair to paint your friend or cyclists in general with that brush, but that's what generalizations are there for.

[molson]

would it be safer to the pedestrians having to jump out of the way all the time too though? don't forget that part of the equation

Right, that's what I mean, it depends on the street. A lot of streets have almost zero pedestrian traffic, where you can see anyone coming from a long way away, but then a lot of highway traffic.

[JediKooter]

Maybe it's a California thing, but, there's bike lines everywhere around here. Is this not the case in other states?

[molson]

Maybe it's a California thing, but, there's bike lines everywhere around here. Is this not the case in other states?

I think it's a western thing. Eugene, OR is filled with them - I don't remember seeing them hardly at all back east.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Maybe it's a California thing, but, there's bike lines everywhere around here. Is this not the case in other states?

No, definitely not.

We're stuck with them here in Athens unfortunately (although the majority of cyclists here only use them when it's more convenient, otherwise they prefer to weave in & out of traffic) but most places I've been elsewhere in the state they're sporadic to non-existent.

[wade moore]

Sorry to hear that.
The tension between drivers and bikers seems to be heating up - it definitely is in Boise. There's a lot of blanket opinions on both sides. Bad drivers/bikers both give their respective groups a bad name.


Bingo.

There are way too many jerk-off riders and way too many jerk-off drivers. I'm not sure which came first, the chicken or the egg. It seems like, as a non-biker, that for every good, law-abiding bicyclist there are 5 (as someone else said) that use the "rules of the road" as it suits them. I do my best to give them their space, etc, etc - but when they go through red lights, don't signal, ride in a row instead of single file, etc,etc it defeats the whole purpose. And this is in a town that has a LOT of bike lanes.

[WheelsVT]

I can understand the anger towards cyclists. From my experience, more often then not cyclists use the "rules of the road" argument when it suits them. They also run red lights, etc, when it suits them as well.

It is certainly unfair to paint your friend or cyclists in general with that brush, but that's what generalizations are there for.

I agree. It's a big part of the problem. It only takes a few cyclists doing things like that to create frustration toward all cyclists. It's something that we lecture each other on as a group and there are still those that will do something stupid.

I can't stand guys that run lights. The only slight defense I have about running stop signs... ok no defense. Was going to say that with clipless pedals I like to come to as much a stop as possible without unclipping unless there's a car that is turning into my path and I'll stop. but again, that's no real defense.

[DaddyTorgo]

ohhhh...i had a cyclist run a red light and almost hit me as i was a pedestrian a few weeks back and then have the gall to curse at me...you can bet i stood there in the middle of downtown boston screaming at them afterwards.

when i see cyclists (and i don't mean people on bikes out for little rides...i mean hardcore cyclists) running red lights constantly i really start to lose all respect for them as a class of road-users. not saying i'd run them over or force them off the road, but i'll definately sit there and cuss them out to myself and any other passengers in my car.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I can understand the anger towards cyclists. From my experience, more often then not cyclists use the "rules of the road" argument when it suits them. They also run red lights, etc, when it suits them as well.

You just summed up Athens quite nicely considering the distance between your location & here.

You also just summed up why I've spent several years advocating hunting licenses be issues to motorists that allow them to bag an annual limit of cyclists in the roadway. Kind of like deer hunting.

[Tigercat]

and I'm not about to challenge Clairmont Road or something on my bike.

IMO, from living all over the place and seeing biker behavior in various locales, this is the biggest issue. There are too many people who bike on busy or fast moving streets.

OK so one car waits 15 seconds to pass, slowing down in the process, then the next car, then the next car, ect, ect. In the city that can easily cause quite a little backup on a street and then connecting streets because ONE BIKER wanted to bike on a busy avenue.

Cities that aren't on the west coast need more bike lane options, no doubt about it. But in the absence of that bikers need to realize that our major city streets are optimized with cars in mind, and then should try to avoid non-residential streets whenever possible.

[wade moore]

You just summed up Athens quite nicely considering the distance between your location & here.

You also just summed up why I've spent several years advocating hunting licenses be issues to motorists that allow them to bag an annual limit of cyclists in the roadway. Kind of like deer hunting.

I have to admit - I laughed even though I saw it coming from a mile away.

[JediKooter]

I think it's a western thing. Eugene, OR is filled with them - I don't remember seeing them hardly at all back east.

Oh ok, cool. That could possibly explain some of the comments from others here. :)

Not saying they are bad comments, just makes sense now.

[JediKooter]

No, definitely not.

We're stuck with them here in Athens unfortunately (although the majority of cyclists here only use them when it's more convenient, otherwise they prefer to weave in & out of traffic) but most places I've been elsewhere in the state they're sporadic to non-existent.

Oh wow. I think the 'system' works best when everyone is in their designated areas. Just my opinion though. :)

Maybe they are more behaved here or something, as I don't really see the problems others are describing.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Maybe they are more behaved here or something, as I don't really see the problems others are describing.

Must be, because here it's almost a running joke about how unusual it is to see bicycles in the bike lanes.

The students are actually pretty good about it on/adjacent to campus but once you get 2-3 miles away from the university proper it would be comical if it weren't so dangerous & annoying.

As a traffic related aside, I've been surprised after three years here to find that the college kids are actually consistently decent drivers while the adults who came here & stayed after school are a clear & present danger to pretty much everyone around them on the road whether they're on a bike, in a car, or the requisite minivan.

[Gary Gorski]

We don't have many bike lanes around here (that I see anyways) and always wish bike riders were up on the sidewalk where there are no people rather than clogging up traffic on a busy road that only has one lane either way. Why not just widen the sidewalks so that half is the bike lane and half is the pedestrian lane and leave the road for the people driving cars?

[WheelsVT]

A couple months ago we had a teenage driver and friends open the car door into the oncoming lane "to scare" the group. They nearly took out the entire pack and could easily have killed someone by "dooring" them at 40mph.

All I can do is try to stay aware of drivers while out on the road, follow traffic laws, and wave at the ones that curse, flick me off, throw things as they pass. There's no way I'd win the fight against a car if I happened to piss it off. ;)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Why not just widen the sidewalks so that half is the bike lane and half is the pedestrian lane and leave the road for the people driving cars?

Off the top of my head, unless you're planning to simply shrink the existing road space then the cost of either buying the strips of land to increase sidewalk space or the court fights over exercising imminent domain to take it would get hefty in a hurry. And that doesn't even begin to consider the cost of the actual construction no matter which side you add the sidewalk space to.

[Masked]

Oh wow. I think the 'system' works best when everyone is in their designated areas. Just my opinion though. :)

Maybe they are more behaved here or something, as I don't really see the problems others are describing.

I frequently see cyclists running stops signs and red lights in San Jose; however, they are far worse in San Francisco than San Jose.

[Gary Gorski]

Off the top of my head, unless you're planning to simply shrink the existing road space then the cost of either buying the strips of land to increase sidewalk space or the court fights over exercising imminent domain to take it would get hefty in a hurry. And that doesn't even begin to consider the cost of the actual construction no matter which side you add the sidewalk space to.

Aren't those issues when deciding to add a bike lane to a road? I mean for places that have bike lanes already I guess its too late but if the decision is to be made to either widen the road or widen the sidewalk is there that big of a difference in cost and legal issues?

[miked]

In Atlanta, finding a sidewalk is rare enough, let alone a bike lane. It's pretty funny, since I live near a University there are a lot of bikers and I don't blame them. Sometimes in my car it takes 25 minutes to go a few miles to campus, I'd love to spend that time biking instead. But I try and go backroads as much as possible, even if it's a little longer just because even if I'm going at a decent enough speed, people pass so dangerously and think nothing of other human life. It's pretty sad. I don't care if somebody passes me, but most of the time I'm as far to the curb as humanly possible, don't drive 2 inches from me honking because you may get the store 2 minutes later.

As was alluded to in the MLB thread, if they made the public transportation a little better around here in the burbs, it would probably lighten the roadways up a bit. Or they could invest in some re-painting and put a 12 inch bike lane in.

[JediKooter]

Must be, because here it's almost a running joke about how unusual it is to see bicycles in the bike lanes.

The students are actually pretty good about it on/adjacent to campus but once you get 2-3 miles away from the university proper it would be comical if it weren't so dangerous & annoying.

As a traffic related aside, I've been surprised after three years here to find that the college kids are actually consistently decent drivers while the adults who came here & stayed after school are a clear & present danger to pretty much everyone around them on the road whether they're on a bike, in a car, or the requisite minivan.

At least the kids are trying. :) Oh I could go on for days about the way people drive here in Cupertino...

I pretty much avoid the freeways as much as possible and take as many side streets as I can here.

[WheelsVT]

Sometimes in my car it takes 25 minutes to go a few miles to campus, I'd love to spend that time biking instead. But I try and go backroads as much as possible, even if it's a little longer just because even if I'm going at a decent enough speed, people pass so dangerously and think nothing of other human life. It's pretty sad. I don't care if somebody passes me, but most of the time I'm as far to the curb as humanly possible, don't drive 2 inches from me honking because you may get the store 2 minutes later.


I do the same. It's 10 miles to my current job, and I'm planning a route to get there that avoids the busy roads... it's looking to be 28 miles or so. But at least I'll feel safer.

[JediKooter]

I frequently see cyclists running stops signs and red lights in San Jose; however, they are far worse in San Francisco than San Jose.

You know, I do notice quite a bit of cyclists that run stop signs now that you mention it. So, I may have to revise my comment on how well behaved they are here. I worry more about the drivers in Cupertino than the cyclists. :)

[gstelmack]

It's a mixed bag around here. Cary has a fair number of bicycle lanes, but not really enough. Just the other day I had a cyclist who was backing up traffic on Cary Parkway (which is under construction so has ZERO room for anyone to go around a cyclist) pull off onto a side street to let cars by which was pretty considerate. Generally individual cyclists are pretty good, it's the packs that are trouble. They take up whole lanes (riding side-by-side rather than single file) and hold up traffic, which is a ticket if a car does it. And when they hold up traffic, it gets folks impatient, and that leads to trouble.

But I agree with the points above that bad members of a group give the group a bad name. Truckers get annoyed all the time at cars zipping in front of them, while I hate the truckers that tailgate me when I'm already at or above the speed limit. Motorcyclists complain about cars not seeing them, when there are plenty of motorcyclists who zip between car lanes and weave in and out. And we have plenty of car drivers who think they own the road and can go where they want when they want, one of whom they're looking for in this area because he/she clipped the front end of a car and killed the 16 year old in it when it went out of control. And we could talk about drivers who miss their turn and decide to hold up traffic trying to make up for it rather than going around the block or up to the next light.

A bit more patience and attention to the folks around you would serve drivers, truckers, cyclists, and bikers well.

[Samdari]

I agree. It's a big part of the problem. It only takes a few cyclists doing things like that to create frustration toward all cyclists. It's something that we lecture each other on as a group and there are still those that will do something stupid.

Honestly, it does not take any bikers doing anything wrong to annoy me. I view time spent in the car as a complete waste of time, so I want to get where I am going as fast as possible (since I got in the car to go there, not be in the car). Bikers following all laws still cause me to slow down to an unacceptably low speed. I can't stand them being on the road.

Note, I realize that is where they currently belong, but I think that is an anachronistic concept, and needs to be changed (since the overriding concern for all lawmakers should be to remove all things that annoyme).

[Fidatelo]

Agree with many people above; the bad cyclists ruin it for the good ones. Too often a cyclist will ride in the middle of the lane (which strictly speaking is their right), keeping cars from passing, but then as they approach a light will zoom between all the cars to get to the front of the line. Then they merge back in as the light goes green and expect everyone to just give them the lane back.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Aren't those issues when deciding to add a bike lane to a road? I mean for places that have bike lanes already I guess its too late but if the decision is to be made to either widen the road or widen the sidewalk is there that big of a difference in cost and legal issues?

Sorry, I thought you were being more general & retrofitting than that (and almost said something to that effect but didn't, probably should have).

[gstelmack]

See the comments too. Other cyclists are defending him, but I find it interesting how some drivers don't seem to consider cyclists as people and they're always at fault even when the cyclist follows the law and was struck from behind. I wish they would just slow down and wait 15 sec to pass safely.

According to the story in this case, the driver was in a no-passing zone, so could not slow down and wait, correct? How big is this no-passing zone? How far across the double-yellow did the car have to go to pass the cyclist (how wide is the lane)?

I actually don't fully understand the situation: was your teammate on the right side of the lane and turning left across it, or was he already on the left side of the lane when the car went to go around him, going all the way into oncoming traffic? I know when I ride my bike if I have to left turn or cross a street, I'm stopping until I have clear access. If I'm on the right side of a lane and need to turn left across the street, I'm checking behind me to see if there are any cars, and stopping on the side of the road until they are gone. First read of this article puts the blame on both the car (for passing while the cyclist was signalling) and the cyclist (for cutting in front of a car that was behind him and assuming the car saw the signal) to me. But I'm also willing to admit the whole story is not in the article (which is of course typical of media reporting...)

[wade moore]

A bit more patience and attention to the folks around you would serve drivers, truckers, cyclists, and bikers well.

One of the best things about living here in Williamsburg rather than the DC area where I grew up is that, on the whole, people have MUCH more patience. Driving around is actually generally enjoyable, rather than the nightmare that it is up there. People let cars merge, wave people through at shopping center openings when traffic backed up,e tc, etc. It makes the whole driving experience dramatically better.

[lordscarlet]

OK, a few things. First, cyclists are not allowed on sidewalks in many areas because it is doubly unsafe. First, it is unsafe for pedestrians that are sharing the sidewalk. Second, it is very unsafe for cyclists that are crossing in a cross-walk. Cars just don't have the time to see you flying off the sidewalk.

I bike routinly aorund the city, but I am not a "hard core cyclist." Do I follow the letter of the law 100%? No. Do a single one of the people here complaining use their turn signal everytime they change lanes or make a turn, come to a complete stop at every stop sign and always remain at or below the speed limit? I doubt it. There is a level of responsibility you take an cautiousness that should be taken when cycling. However, the fact is that cyclists treat themselves as a hybrid pedestrian/car. I feel that I follow the "rules of the road" in all cases except red lights. I will come to a complete stop at a red light, but if it is safe to cross I will run the light. Does this mean that I am in the majority? Absolutely not. Unfortunately, many, many cyclists feel they can do whatever they want. DC is a mixed bag of bike lanes and lack thereof. I ride them when I can, but sometimes it is too inconvenient (and by that, I mean it is inconvenient to go 6 blocks out of the way to find a bike lane).

Anyway, as mentioned previously, there are jerks on both sides. And I think the majority on both sides are jerks. My primary rules are to never put myself or anyone else in danger and to never "steal" the right of way from someone either as a motoris, cyclist, or pedestrian (all modes of transportation I use frequently).

[DanGarion]

Let me ask you something.

How come cyclists ride on the street when there is a sidewalk there as well? Maybe I don't know cycling protocol or something.

Cyclists are vehicles. Sidewalks are for pedestrians.

[WheelsVT]

Agree with many people above; the bad cyclists ruin it for the good ones. Too often a cyclist will ride in the middle of the lane (which strictly speaking is their right), keeping cars from passing, but then as they approach a light will zoom between all the cars to get to the front of the line. Then they merge back in as the light goes green and expect everyone to just give them the lane back.

Actually we are supposed to stay as far right (the right 1/3 of the lane) as possible. When approaching a light I don't like to pass cars to get to the front b/c I could see it really annoying the drivers that waited so patiently to pass safely already. So I like to stop in line as if I were another car.

Group riding has a few challenges in that a double paceline (two abreast) is usually allowed legally. If it's a busier road I'd think the group should go single file. But if there are 10+ guys on the ride that's a long line of cyclists for a car to try and pass safely. A double paceline would be more like a very slow car vs a 200ft long line that is very tempting for drivers to squeeze past.

[gstelmack]

A double paceline would be more like a very slow car vs a 200ft long line that is very tempting for drivers to squeeze past.

Which is supposed to be a ticket on the car. How do I know? I failed my first driving test in Florida because there were no speed limit signs on the stretch they had me start out on, so I was doing the default speed limit of 35 MPH rather than the 45 the road was marked for. Since holding up traffic is a ticketable offense, no license for me. And yes, you rarely see that ticket given, especially in Florida where it would be REALLY useful.

[lordscarlet]

I think the other problem here (from my POV) is city versus exurban (is that a word?) driving. Inside the city (any city I have been in) a cyclist is unlikely to really slow you down. First, there's plenty of room to pass. Second, the speed limit is ~25mph and there are frequent stop lights.

[WheelsVT]

According to the story in this case, the driver was in a no-passing zone, so could not slow down and wait, correct? How big is this no-passing zone? How far across the double-yellow did the car have to go to pass the cyclist (how wide is the lane)?

I actually don't fully understand the situation: was your teammate on the right side of the lane and turning left across it, or was he already on the left side of the lane when the car went to go around him, going all the way into oncoming traffic? I know when I ride my bike if I have to left turn or cross a street, I'm stopping until I have clear access. If I'm on the right side of a lane and need to turn left across the street, I'm checking behind me to see if there are any cars, and stopping on the side of the road until they are gone. First read of this article puts the blame on both the car (for passing while the cyclist was signalling) and the cyclist (for cutting in front of a car that was behind him and assuming the car saw the signal) to me. But I'm also willing to admit the whole story is not in the article (which is of course typical of media reporting...)

He was on the right side of the lane about to turn across it. From what I heard he had just turned onto the road, a van passed and then he signaled his intention to turn left across the lane that he was currently in. He looked back to verify the lane behind was clear, put his hand down to steer and began to turn left. Knowing him he wouldn't have cut off a car so he had to have not seen it even though he looked. My guessis the car sped up to get around him before he started to turn.

[wade moore]

I will come to a complete stop at a red light, but if it is safe to cross I will run the light.

Completely illegal and unsafe.

This is a far cry from going 5-10 miles over the speed limit.

[WheelsVT]

Which is supposed to be a ticket on the car. How do I know? I failed my first driving test in Florida because there were no speed limit signs on the stretch they had me start out on, so I was doing the default speed limit of 35 MPH rather than the 45 the road was marked for. Since holding up traffic is a ticketable offense, no license for me. And yes, you rarely see that ticket given, especially in Florida where it would be REALLY useful.

From a local Georgia cycling site:
"
Although, it is legal by Georgia Code to ride two abreast (double pace-line), many, if not most, Georgia law enforcement officials are unaware of this fact in the traffic law code: "Persons riding bicycles upon a roadway shall not ride MORE than two abreast except on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles." This language in the Georgia Code was adopted from the Uniform Vehicle Code (used by most states). The reason behind the law is for cyclists' and motor vehicle safety and improved traffic flow. If you encounter an officer who commands the group to ride single file, do so, even though it is lawful and safer. Cyclists should be aware that local jurisdictions, i.e. cities, towns, or counties, may have traffic codes that conflict with the Georgia state traffic code.
"

[DanGarion]

Completely illegal and unsafe.

This is a far cry from going 5-10 miles over the speed limit.

Yeah haven't you learned anything on this board yet, we already covered the running red lights thing in the Cop Pulled Over Family Trying to See Their Dying Mother thread... ;)

[gstelmack]

He was on the right side of the lane about to turn across it. From what I heard he had just turned onto the road, a van passed and then he signaled his intention to turn left across the lane that he was currently in. He looked back to verify the lane behind was clear, put his hand down to steer and began to turn left. Knowing him he wouldn't have cut off a car so he had to have not seen it even though he looked. My guessis the car sped up to get around him before he started to turn.

That would make sense, and plenty of drivers would do that.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I think the other problem here (from my POV) is city versus exurban (is that a word?) driving.

Yes, exurban is a word. Although I'm sure there's some specific definition for it, basically it's used to describe outlying or farther flung suburbs.

Around Atlanta for example, the larger counties closest to the city (say Fulton, DeKalb, Cobb, Gwinnett, maybe Clayton more often than not) are safely "suburban" but those that are in the official metropolitian area (DMA,MSA, ADI) but that are mostly connected to the core metro only as bedroom communities and don't share a lot of other development characteristics (such as Pickens, Carroll, even Rockdale & Newton) are sometimes referred to as exurban.

[cuervo72]

Cyclists are vehicles. Sidewalks are for pedestrians.

If they are vehicles that are to be treated on equal footing as cars, perhaps they should be registered or the riders licensed?

[DanGarion]

If they are vehicles that are to be treated on equal footing as cars, perhaps they should be registered or the riders licensed?

Just stating the CA Vehicle Code. I didn't make it. But just an FYI, it's also law in most cities here that you have to have a bike license.

[Karlifornia]

Idiot drivers + idiot cyclists = 100% of the problems

[damnMikeBrown]

You just summed up Athens quite nicely considering the distance between your location & here.

You also just summed up why I've spent several years advocating hunting licenses be issues to motorists that allow them to bag an annual limit of cyclists in the roadway. Kind of like deer hunting.

It is amazing. You are such an asshole. Attitudes like this are literally why one of my old riding partners, a Republican Judge here in OH used to carry a firearm with him while riding. I am so pleased that you consider your life to be worth so much more than your fellow man. Truely an example to follow. I'd would give the benefit of the doubt that it was tounge in cheek, but hell man, you said the same thing last year too.

How many times on my bike have I endangered a persons life? How many times have you and attitudes like yours taken innocent people's lives in to reckless hands. Damn man...it's just pathetic.

[RainMaker]

That really sucks. I have some friends who are avid cyclists in the city and literally go everywhere on their bike. But as others have mentioned, there are some asshole cyclists who think they own the road and make it real difficult to drive around. They veer out of the bike lanes when they want and are too close to the middle on narrow streets.

Cyclists are overall good for any city and I wish there were better ways to integrate them on the road without causing too many incidents.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'd would give the benefit of the doubt that it was tounge in cheek, but hell man, you said the same thing last year too.

I was just as serious then as I am now. I'd have no problem at all with it as long as it was regulated properly. They've essentially made themselves nuisance animals by choice, which is actually worse than coyotes & the like which largely don't know any better. From the standpoint of ever actually expecting it to happen, yeah, of course it's tongue in cheek.

But I'd be telling one hell of a big lie if I said I'd shed a single tear over the sudden & violent demise of any cyclist that jumps a traffic light or a line of traffic while lying their asses off about how they obey the laws of the road. That's a combination of Darwin's Law in action and poetic justice as far as I'm concerned.

[Tyrith]

Generally the sense I'm getting is that cyclists try to be both a vehicle and a non-vehicle at the same time - and that's what I believe, too. I have great sympathy for bikers, especially living in a very green friendly place (Austin). However, you aren't helping anyone if what you do clogs up traffic flow and you just do whatever the heck you feel like.

Bikers need to follow the rules and follow them consistently, just like they were a car, unless you are willing to take all the blame when you break the rules. Within that I am, and I think it everyone else should be, willing to work with the cyclists to make the roads as safe as possible.

[tarcone]

Im about to take up cycling. My bro-in-law bought a new bike and is giving me his old. This was a bad thread to read.
Although i live in a small town, the drivers here would hit bikes for sport I think.

[RainMaker]

More bikes = less cars on the road

As someone who lives in a city, that's a very good thing. Less traffic and less smog.

[gstelmack]

Similar accident here:

Cyclist killed in collision with vehicle in Apex :: WRAL.com (http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/5553372/)

No word yet on details like hand signals, but basically looks like he just crossed in front of the car. What's sadder as you read the article is he sounds like one of the "good" cyclists who kept trying to teach local cyclists that they are a vehicle and need to act like it...