Do you consider your job part of your identity?

[thesloppy]

I was thinking today about how often we use our job as an identifier in this country. When you introduce yourself to someone, or if you're a gameshow contestant, or in just about any social situation, your name is the first thing people offer, and almost immediately after comes your line of work.

Do you personally identify yourself with your job? Like, do you think "I'm an architect!", or is your job one of the last things you associate with yourself?

I think that probably depends a lot on the social status of the job in question, and your interest in that field. Personally, I've never been too attached to my work, and it's one of the last things I'd offer about myself, although it's never one of the last things asked. Anybody's who's been unemployed is probably familiar with the not-often-mentioned joy of going to a party, or social situation, and having to spend half the time announcing your unemployment, as part of introductions. We've all probably also met one of those folks who insists on being called 'Dr.' every time they're addressed, in even the most casual of settings.

Where do you fit?

[DaddyTorgo]

nah

[judicial clerk]

So...you didn't mention what you do for a living.

[thesloppy]

Also, I think you should legally be required to have sold art, in order to identify yourself as an 'artist'. Half of Portland calls themselves artists, because they doodle horrible self portraits on napkins, or whatever, and I think there needs to be some sort of regulation put into place. I drive a car everyday, I think I'm pretty good at it, I don't call myself a 'racecar driver'.

[lighthousekeeper]

yes for me.

[DaddyTorgo]

So...you didn't mention what you do for a living.

i live. i work in order to have money to live.

[thesloppy]

So...you didn't mention what you do for a living.

haHA! EXACTLY!

Software quality assurance engineer. Or unemployed, depending on what day you ask (don't ask next week). Explaining what software quality assurance is, to a half-interested party, is almost as uncomfortable as admitting you're unemployed.

[Eaglesfan27]

I never ask anyone to call me "doctor" outside of work, and even then I only ask co-workers to call me that in front of patients. However, I'm certainly not above throwing in that I'm a doctor when I think it will be advantageous such as last minute reservations. I like my work and consider it a part of my identity, but certainly not the most important part.

[CU Tiger]

well...I own my own company, and employ quite a few people, sadly (maybe) 90% of my friends/associates are either employees, customers or contractors we do work for.

<br/> so yah everyone I know identifies me as the owner of...

[Mustang]

No.

I don't even know what I do let alone tell others.

[Radii]

The only thing I do more than work is sleep(and that's only because I'm part time/contracting right now, until 2 years ago it was always the other way around), so even though I don't enjoy the work I'm doing, I find it impossible not to consider it a major part of my identity.

[stevew]

Nah

Back when I was a cook I was embarrassed about what I did. Now that I work in sales I'm a lot more happy.

Probably has a lot to do with finally earning solid wages and having a house. Something I would never have when I made 7 bucks an hour

[lighthousekeeper]

I ask co-workers to call me [Doctor] in front of patients.

haha lame ;)

[molson]

Definitely. But I always feel like I have to clarify that I'm not the kind of lawyer that makes lots of money, if only to explain my shabby appearance and crappy car.

But I've spent a ton of time trying to do it, moved for it, went into debt for it, live where I am because of it, and fortunately, am very passionate about the public service aspect of it. My life totally revolves around my job.

[cuervo72]

Like a mild-mannered reporter?

[JonInMiddleGA]

My various jobs & the associated quirks/traits/etc probably encompass at least 2/3rds of my external identity.

[johnnyshaka]

I have no problems telling folks that I'm a computer geek, if asked about my job, because I generally like the job I do. But everybody who knows me knows that I don't have time to have my head buried behind a computer 24/7 because (most stereotypes of guys in my field are that we eat/sleep/breathe computers...not my bag, baby!) of the all the hockey/baseball/golf I like to play as well as trying to balance my two young daughters and a very understanding wife.

For the record, I don't make anybody call me doctor. :p

[BYU 14]

Interestingly I find that those with higher prestige jobs tend to include that more than those that don't. With some it may be ego, but I think it is usually as Molson and EF27 mentioned. They worked hard to get where they are and are devoted to the service they provide and proud of it as they should be.

I never mention it what I do when introducing myself, but have no problem sharing if asked.

What I do at work would appear to be a very small part of my identity as I prefer to be informal, casual and laid back in everyday life, but it is actually a very big part internally as I am something of a perfectionist and also very competitive within myself, in that I like to do well and feel I have a strong work ethic. I think some of that comes from coaching/playing Football as I have done that since age 10 and my involvement in sports has gone a long way into shaping who I am today.

And my wife sometimes calls me Doctor on dress up night ;)

[Autumn]

My current job I don't feel is part of my identity at all. I suppose the fact that I run our own business is something that is, in a sense, but the paticular work I do now is just kind of random, and I'd be glad to not be doing it if it didn't work so well for our family now.

But I've had other parts of my life where what I was doing was very much a part of who I was. I'd liek to be there again.

[digamma]

My profession, yes. My job, no. If that makes sense.

[Recoil]

I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.

[JediKooter]

I like telling people I'm a secret agent, zombie hunter, Jedi, or a midget wrestler. However, in reality, I'm a software QA engineer.

[Danny]

I'd say mostly no to this point, but when I finish grad school and start work as School Psychologist I would say it definitely will be. None of my jobs have been what I ideally wanted to be doing, something I was really passionate about or something I considered a career, but the field I am going into will fulfill all of those and will definitely be a part of who I am. With that, I doubt I will want to ever volunteer what I do to most people as they will either think A. I can fix them B. I can play mind tricks on them or C. I can fix/diagnose their kids.

[clemsonfan]

Yes. I have been in school it seems like forever, so Nursing student is definitely an identifier for me.

[DanGarion]

I never ask anyone to call me "doctor" outside of work, and even then I only ask co-workers to call me that in front of patients. However, I'm certainly not above throwing in that I'm a doctor when I think it will be advantageous such as last minute reservations. I like my work and consider it a part of my identity, but certainly not the most important part.

That's awesome. I always hated it when I did tech support and a customer's account said "Doctor Smith". I knew right then and their that they had a chip on their shoulder. I would do everything possible to call them Mr.

[DanGarion]

I enjoy calling myself a Super Hero.

[JonInMiddleGA]

But I've had other parts of my life where what I was doing was very much a part of who I was. I'd liek to be there again.

Boy can I ever identify with that.

[RainMaker]

I don't consider it part of my identity but other people do. I work in web stuff and with computers so I feel like I get labeled that way. I'm the guy that people call with computer problems and I'm the guy everyone looks to when they have a tech question. While I do know about that stuff, it's also just a job to me. I like to keep my personal life and business life as seperate as possible.

[Honolulu_Blue]

No. It's actually something I feel like I should be working on and have tried taking steps in that direction, but I just can't. I'm a lawyer, almost 10 years out of law school and I still think of my job as my "job" as opposed to my "career". So far, so good, but I can't help but feel at some point that disassociation will catch up with me.

Still, almost every time I meet with clients I'm always told "You don't seem like a lawyer." I tend to take it as a compliment.

[CamEdwards]

I consider my job a big part of my identity, but it's not something I mention or bring up in conversation all that often. I'm always concerned it'll come off sounding egotistical, and there are enough big-egoed talk show hosts out there. :)

[Logan]

That's awesome. I always hated it when I did tech support and a customer's account said "Doctor Smith". I knew right then and their that they had a chip on their shoulder. I would do everything possible to call them Mr.

Sounds like you're a dick.

[sterlingice]

I like telling people I'm a secret agent, zombie hunter, Jedi, or a midget wrestler. However, in reality, I'm a software QA engineer.

Pumpy's alter ego? ;)

SI

[Desnudo]

Your job is part of your identity, whether you like it or not. If you're embarassed about it, or don't like it, it is still part of your identity. "Sloppy, the guy who hates his job."

[Draft Dodger]

That's awesome. I always hated it when I did tech support and a customer's account said "Doctor Smith". I knew right then and their that they had a chip on their shoulder. I would do everything possible to call them Mr.

I do the same thing.

and I definitely do not identify with my job at all. it's just a job. I do have a running joke, though. when I'm with friends talking about drama involving their work, I like to break in with "I sell computers".

[Daimyo]

Internally its a huge part of my identity. I'm very ambitious and career focused so I spend a lot of my non-work time thinking about work and I'm very proud of what I've accomplished.

Interpersonal-ly though I'm the opposite. I really try to play down my "success" with my family and friends and hate talking to them about work stuff.

[miked]

I just tell people that I'm a stand-up philosopher.

[lungs]

I'm a farmer, so yes. But I actually don't openly advertise the fact right away when I meet people. There are a lot of (well-deserved) preconceived notions about farmers that don't necessarily fit me so I don't want to be typecast right away by my profession because I am pretty unique for a farmer.

But farming usually does lend to some interesting discussion for people who don't know much about it and are inquisitive.

[JediKooter]

Pumpy's alter ego? ;)

SI

It's possible, but, I'm sworn to secrecy...

[Logan]

When you introduce yourself to someone, or if you're a gameshow contestant, or in just about any social situation

Not enough love for what was thrown in the middle of two normal, potentially daily occurrences.

[DanGarion]

Sounds like you're a dick.

No, most of the people that would expect me to call them Doctor are dicks. I mean it's not your legal name, and you aren't my doctor, so shut the fuck up Mr. Smith.

Unsure when calling someone by their name became being a dick. I don't care that you spent thousands of dollars to become a Doctor in Earth Science, it doesn't pertain to the emergency at hand that I'm trying to assist you with and will not get you special treatment.

[thesloppy]

Not enough love for what was thrown in the middle of two normal, potentially daily occurrences.

It's true though! If you're on a gameshow, and the first time the camera hits you, you're contractually obligated to yell out "HI! MY NAME'S CASEY AND I'M A DOG GROOMER!" at the top of your lungs.

[Karlifornia]

I tell people right away that I work at a pizza joint. If they don't dig me because I'm not a careerist, then I guess we weren't meant to be friends.

[SteveMax58]

Internally its a huge part of my identity. I'm very ambitious and career focused so I spend a lot of my non-work time thinking about work and I'm very proud of what I've accomplished.

Interpersonal-ly though I'm the opposite. I really try to play down my "success" with my family and friends and hate talking to them about work stuff.

+1

I'd also add that I never announce my profession to anybody until asked. And even then, generally just give some generic title or functional role to make them stop asking questions. That is...unless they are in the same general industry or show some express interest in understanding it...then I'm all good with talking about it. But I never like to come off as boastful or arrogant or trying to be competitive in social situations. Just not my deal.

[Cringer]

This is a difficult question for me. A few years ago, yes my job was a big part of my identity. It is hard to be a OTR truck driver and not have it be a large part of your identity I think because it is your life. I wouldn't tell people right after my name though. Hell, I was on the road most of the time so they probably already new. ;)

Now, eh. I think being independent is more important then what my actual job is, and that is a big reflection on my personality, so I guess it is a big part of my identity in that way. Saying I am a real estate agent isn't something I offer up right away though, because it really doesn't explain what I do because I do very little work with buyers/sellers. I think much more of my identity to others outside of family right now is being a youth soccer coach, part of the youth soccer association, the guy who home schools his kid, and the guy good with computers (in their eyes, I know I am simply above average with them).

[thesloppy]

Your job is part of your identity, whether you like it or not. If you're embarassed about it, or don't like it, it is still part of your identity. "Sloppy, the guy who hates his job."

That's an interesting assertion, that opens the other side of the question, "who identifies you by your job?"

I'm pretty certain that none of my close friends think of my work (or lack thereof) as part of my identity, and I never identify my friends by their work, but I wonder how much of that might be because the great majority of my close friends were met in middle/high-school/college, when nobody had jobs. Ditto for my immediate family. My extended family, on the other hand...I wouldn't be surprised if they all identify me by my work (or my distaste for it).

I also just realized that if I'm honest with myself, I DO have a friend that I regularly identify by his work. He's a partical physicist and a professor in England, and I will gladly and regularly offer that information (like I just did) without anybody asking...I'd guess because part of me thinks that presenting myself as having smart friends suggests that I too am a smart dude.

Are their friends you identify by their professions, and others you don't??

[Pumpy Tudors]

Until my current job, my job has always been a part of my identity. Whether it was working in a hat store, at a ship supply company, or for coal miners, I always sort of made it a big deal (more for comedy than anything). Now that I'm technically on a career track position (just got my very first promotion two weeks ago), it's simply not as funny anymore, so I don't get into it too much. Being a business analyst for a candy/gum manufacturer and a cigarette manufacturer just ain't that humorous. :(

[sterlingice]

Until my current job, my job has always been a part of my identity. Whether it was working in a hat store, at a ship supply company, or for coal miners, I always sort of made it a big deal (more for comedy than anything). Now that I'm technically on a career track position (just got my very first promotion two weeks ago), it's simply not as funny anymore, so I don't get into it too much. Being a business analyst for a candy/gum manufacturer and a cigarette manufacturer just ain't that humorous. :(

I just have this vision of Martin on the Simpsons when they did vocational tests, crossing his fingers and chanting "Systems analyst. Systems analyst."

SI

[Logan]

No, most of the people that would expect me to call them Doctor are dicks. I mean it's not your legal name, and you aren't my doctor, so shut the fuck up Mr. Smith.

Unsure when calling someone by their name became being a dick. I don't care that you spent thousands of dollars to become a Doctor in Earth Science, it doesn't pertain to the emergency at hand that I'm trying to assist you with and will not get you special treatment.

Sorry, the fact that a person properly listing their title as "Dr" when filling out a form sends you out of your way to refer to them as something different screams inferiority complex. Do you call every Mrs. "Miss" because she's not your wife?

[Raiders Army]

I think the people who identify their job with their identity either don't have a family or they want to move up in the world.

I'd agree with Logan that it seems as if some people have an inferiority complex because they have a problem with somebody referring themselves as a "Doctor" when they've earned that title. Would you call Obama Mr?

[DanGarion]

Sorry, the fact that a person properly listing their title as "Dr" when filling out a form sends you out of your way to refer to them as something different screams inferiority complex. Do you call every Mrs. "Miss" because she's not your wife?

You still don't understand what I'm saying.

I've seen a number of accounts in our system that have the person's name as "DOCTOR BLANK" instead of their legal name of JOHN BLANK. We never had a "Dr." listing in the Mr. Mrs. Ms are, and honestly don't think there is a need for it, since it doesn't matter if you are a doctor, a lawyer, or a candlestick maker. When I used to deal directly with customers I treated all customers with the same amount of respect regardless of profession. Don't have any sort of inferiority complex, just don't see why the title is signification in everyday life. In your profession yes, but not out of it.

[MikeVic]

Until my current job, my job has always been a part of my identity. Whether it was working in a hat store, at a ship supply company, or for coal miners, I always sort of made it a big deal (more for comedy than anything). Now that I'm technically on a career track position (just got my very first promotion two weeks ago), it's simply not as funny anymore, so I don't get into it too much. Being a business analyst for a candy/gum manufacturer and a cigarette manufacturer just ain't that humorous. :(

Congrats on the promotion! How many hot ladies work with you now.

[Raiders Army]

You still don't understand what I'm saying.

I've seen a number of accounts in our system that have the person's name as "DOCTOR BLANK" instead of their legal name of JOHN BLANK. We never had a "Dr." listing in the Mr. Mrs. Ms are, and honestly don't think there is a need for it, since it doesn't matter if you are a doctor, a lawyer, or a candlestick maker. When I used to deal directly with customers I treated all customers with the same amount of respect regardless of profession. Don't have any sort of inferiority complex, just don't see why the title is signification in everyday life. In your profession yes, but not out of it.

That makes sense then.

[thesloppy]

I'd agree with Logan that it seems as if some people have an inferiority complex because they have a problem with somebody referring themselves as a "Doctor" when they've earned that title. Would you call Obama Mr?

I think that depends entirely on the situation. If I'm at a black tie dinner, and somebody is introduced to me as Dr. Vinny Boombatz, I would have no problem addressing that guy as Dr. all night. On the other side, when I was in 6th grade, I had an art teacher that insisted on being addressed as "Dr. Perry" at all times, and would immediately correct anybody who didn't. In a case like that, I don't think it's the 12 year olds with the inferiority complex.

[Raiders Army]

I think that depends entirely on the situation. If I'm at a black tie dinner, and somebody is introduced to me as Dr. Vinny Boombatz, I would have no problem addressing that guy as Dr. all night. On the other side, when I was in 6th grade, I had an art teacher that insisted on being addressed as "Dr. Perry" at all times, and would immediately correct anybody who didn't. In a case like that, I don't think it's the 12 year olds with the inferiority complex.

Hmmmm...a junior high art teacher with a doctorate doesn't have an inferiority complex. Instead I think that person is just an idiot for getting a doctorate in a crap field when they could've gotten a doctorate in a field that would actually pay them the money that would provide the recognition of being a doctor.

[thesloppy]

Hehe, I'd interpret that as she didn't have an inferiority complex, so much as an inferior doctorate?

[Marc Vaughan]

Yeah I consider my job to be part of my identity - I think it is for most working people, if you think about it you probably spend as much active time at work as you do ANY other activity - including spending time with your family.

As such its a huge part of your life and is bound to have an effect on your personality and approach to life really.

That being said if I introduce myself - its normally as 'Marc' and followed by the words 'want a drink?' or whatever the situation warrants rather than anything about work.

[thesloppy]

Personally, I think anybody who insists on being addressed as "Dr." in casual, social situation is a tool...they may have earned that title, but they didn't earn it from you, me or the public in general (unlike a President or political title), and unless those people are also going to go out of their way to investigate and announce everybody else's social status (which would also be a pretty douchey move), it still seems like an exercise in ego to me, albeit a very small and inconsequential one. In just about any other circumstance it doesn't really bother me.

[thesloppy]

Yeah I consider my job to be part of my identity - I think it is for most working people, if you think about it you probably spend as much active time at work as you do ANY other activity - including spending time with your family.


I think that's the difference between a job and a career, though. Someone with a proper career is going to spend a majority of the time of their life doing the same type of thing, even if they switch jobs. Someone who is just working 'a job' isn't that likely to identify with that work, even though they might be spending the majority of their waking hours doing that job, especially if they were working in a different field a few years/months ago, and likely to switch in the future....the only job identity to cling to in that case is 'worker', and that's not very exciting.

People with careers (and just plain higher paying jobs) also tend to have more responsibilities, and are more likely to 'take their work home with them' and focus on work during their down-time, making their work much more a part of their entire identity. People with low-paying/uninteresting work are probably more likely to do the opposite, and take their lives to work with them, soending the day dreaming, making personal phone calls, shooting off emails all day, chatting on facebook, etc, spending as little time as possible thinking about work.

[Radii]

I think the people who identify their job with their identity either don't have a family or they want to move up in the world.


That is either a drastically different interpretation of the original question than I have or its just outright wrong IMO.

For most people who aren't total Type A career focused types, I would assume that family is a bigger part of a person's identity than their work, and for those with children being a parent is likely the biggest thing that defines them, but that doesn't mean that the job isn't still a big part of who you are.

Perhaps its different if you work in retail as opposed to being an accountant, lawyer, software developer, doctor, or whatever(but I don't really see why it necessarily has to be). From the time I was 20 until I was 31 spent 40-60 hours a week working. I've never considered work the most important thing in my life, I'm working to facilitate other things, I don't often care about promotions or acknowledgment, I just want my paycheck so I can do whatever else I want to do when I'm not at work, and those things are the most important to me. But its impossible to say that all that time spent at work, the business relationships I've developed, and the decisions I've made along the way that impact my career path haven't played a key part in shaping who I am, where I live, and how I view the world.

[thesloppy]

I agree with Radii's interpretation, and I don't think you can say that your identity is necessarily tied to your job, just because it's the thing you do most at this time....but then again, I suppose that depends on whether you define identity as external or internal.

History tells us "Elvis Presley was a truck driver before he performed as a singer", but Elvis probably never once thought of himself as a truck driver.

[miked]

You still don't understand what I'm saying.

I've seen a number of accounts in our system that have the person's name as "DOCTOR BLANK" instead of their legal name of JOHN BLANK. We never had a "Dr." listing in the Mr. Mrs. Ms are, and honestly don't think there is a need for it, since it doesn't matter if you are a doctor, a lawyer, or a candlestick maker. When I used to deal directly with customers I treated all customers with the same amount of respect regardless of profession. Don't have any sort of inferiority complex, just don't see why the title is signification in everyday life. In your profession yes, but not out of it.

Well, you are the rare customer service person that treats people with respect. However, it is equally respectful to refer to somebody who spent a significant effort in their lives to become a doctor/earn a doctorate by calling them by the proper title. I only break out the "Dr." when I'm making dinner reservations (it matters!!), hotel reservations, or when annoying sales people call me during dinner or some other inopportune time.

I'm not calling you a dick though, I just think if somebody wants to be called Dr. because they spent a good portion of their lives earning it, maybe you should not go out of your way to disrespect it. On a side note, I never enter "Dr." when filling out any customer service forms or anything of the like because it's just not that important.

[thesloppy]

However, it is equally respectful to refer to somebody who spent a significant effort in their lives to become a doctor/earn a doctorate by calling them by the proper title.

This topic intrigues me. RNs, CPAs, Architects and plenty of other professions/academics also have earned titles and board certifications through years of study (some equal to that of some doctors), but they aren't expected to be addressed by their title (well...with the architects you never know what they expect). Why is that? Does the title of doctor carry the same weight in other countries? Does/has it always extend to those who have earned doctorate degrees in general, or is/was it specific to medical doctors, and bled over time?

[MizzouRah]

Part of it... yes.

[terpkristin]

I don't consider it a part of my identity in that I don't tell people what I do unless they ask (like if I'm introducing myself to someone, my job isn't the first thing I mention). But most people do ask. At that point, I tell them I am an aerospace engineer or that I work in the satellite industry. I almost never tell people my proper title, nobody would really know what it is anyway.

Regarding the "Dr" thing--my mom has a PhD. She uses it professionally (official emails from work, papers, conferences, etc--not day to day with her coworkers unless something formal/work-related is going on, almost never with her friends--most of whom are MDs or PhDs anyway, though).

As a complete aside, she also uses it when one of our family members is in the hospital (actually, I don't know what she did when my dad was in the hospital down here, I know for a fact she did it when her parents and sister were in hospitals up in New Britain). She realized, sadly, that her parents and sister got better treatment when she dropped her business card as the person to contact. They see "Dr" and "NIH" on her business card and VOILA, questions get answered, etc. This happened most obviously when my mom's sister was admitted to the hospital years ago, for obvious alcohol-related issues (at the time, she was literally yellow). The docs and nurses treated her somewhat as "just another drunk," her care markedly improved when my mom dropped her card...

/tk

[terpkristin]

Oh yeah, I forgot to add, I think my grandmother and grandfather liked using my mom's title more than she did. Every time mail would come to our house from them, it'd be addressed to "Dr. [blah][blah] and Family" or something like that, ALWAYS using the "Dr." I think they were proud of her title.

/tk

[MacroGuru]

I just tell people that I'm a stand-up philosopher.

So your a bull shit artist?

[MacroGuru]

My job is part of my identity due to the fact that I travel a lot...I don't want it to be.

However, I tend to make my business part of my identity and I am proud of that...

[CU Tiger]

This topic intrigues me. RNs, CPAs, Architects and plenty of other professions/academics also have earned titles and board certifications through years of study (some equal to that of some doctors), but they aren't expected to be addressed by their title (well...with the architects you never know what they expect). Why is that? Does the title of doctor carry the same weight in other countries? Does/has it always extend to those who have earned doctorate degrees in general, or is/was it specific to medical doctors, and bled over time?


I dunno...Engineers can be real finnicky about that PE...
We have a "sales engineer" position, I actually got a call from a PE after my guy left his house telling me it was illegal forr me to title him an engineer if he didnt have a PE stamp/seal.
<br/>
I just laughed it off, but then dude sent a certified letter to my office again stating his claim and how he was pressing charges against me for fraudulent business practices.
<br/>
My attorney responded, he (my attorney) does get a title though...I often refer to him as your "high"ness based on our youthful partying days, for whatever thats worth

[terpkristin]

I dunno...Engineers can be real finnicky about that PE...
We have a "sales engineer" position, I actually got a call from a PE after my guy left his house telling me it was illegal forr me to title him an engineer if he didnt have a PE stamp/seal.
<br/>
I just laughed it off, but then dude sent a certified letter to my office again stating his claim and how he was pressing charges against me for fraudulent business practices.
<br/>
My attorney responded, he (my attorney) does get a title though...I often refer to him as your "high"ness based on our youthful partying days, for whatever thats worth

I think it varies from engineer to engineer. I also think that civil engineers and mechanical engineers are the ones who seem to worry about the actual certifications (at least, in aerospace, I know very few who even mention if they have the PE and work has never said I need it). Funny that that PE got all up in arms over it.

/tk

[thesloppy]

I dunno...Engineers can be real finnicky about that PE...
We have a "sales engineer" position, I actually got a call from a PE after my guy left his house telling me it was illegal forr me to title him an engineer if he didnt have a PE stamp/seal.
<br/>
I just laughed it off, but then dude sent a certified letter to my office again stating his claim and how he was pressing charges against me for fraudulent business practices.
<br/>
My attorney responded, he (my attorney) does get a title though...I often refer to him as your "high"ness based on our youthful partying days, for whatever thats worth

Heh, that's funny. I'm totally a fake engineer, but that title is pretty much dead (sorry legit engineers!). IT/SQA/etc. is full of 'em. I figure if someone gives me a business card that says engineer on it, that's good enough for me.

[sterlingice]

Well, you are the rare customer service person that treats people with respect. However, it is equally respectful to refer to somebody who spent a significant effort in their lives to become a doctor/earn a doctorate by calling them by the proper title. I only break out the "Dr." when I'm making dinner reservations (it matters!!), hotel reservations, or when annoying sales people call me during dinner or some other inopportune time.

Seriously? It matters when someone drops the doctor card to get dinner reservations? I rarely go places that require reservations but I should start reserving places as Dr something-or-other ;)

SI

[sterlingice]

I'm not calling you a dick though, I just think if somebody wants to be called Dr. because they spent a good portion of their lives earning it, maybe you should not go out of your way to disrespect it.

This topic intrigues me. RNs, CPAs, Architects and plenty of other professions/academics also have earned titles and board certifications through years of study (some equal to that of some doctors), but they aren't expected to be addressed by their title (well...with the architects you never know what they expect). Why is that? Does the title of doctor carry the same weight in other countries? Does/has it always extend to those who have earned doctorate degrees in general, or is/was it specific to medical doctors, and bled over time?

I gotta side with Mr "thesloppy", IT guy ;)

It seems like it's a one way street here. Doctors should be respected for their time and effort put in but not any other profession? I can bet that almost every one of the career IT guys on this board will put a higher percentage of total time, free time, effort, income, and thought into computer than any doctor will into their profession across their lifetime. Both had to put in a lot of hours in college, both had to put a decent chunk of money towards education and while doctors put more they will also earn more across their lifetime, both work jobs that require long hours as a norm in the field, and both must always continue their education throughout their career. However, at the end of the day, I would guess that the number of doctor hours dedicated to volunteering doing medical work after hours or, I dunno, playing Operation or something, anything, tangentially work related pales to the techies who go home and tinker with their own machines, program for fun, run their own web-based endeavors, read about computing topics for run, hell, or even play games or something equally tangentially related.

That said, in a formal, workplace setting you see things like "John Smith, MSCE CCNA" and I would fully expect emails from doctors to be "Dr John Smith, MD" as that is part of the expected decorum and relevant to the situation. But, really, I just can't see myself calling anyone doctor in any setting except "professional" such as when I'm seeing my doctor or, say, "Professor" or "Dr Smith" in a student-teacher relationship.

SI

[Pumpy Tudors]

Congrats on the promotion! How many hot ladies work with you now.
Thanks. Seventeen.

[miked]

I gotta side with Mr "thesloppy", IT guy ;)

It seems like it's a one way street here. Doctors should be respected for their time and effort put in but not any other profession? I can bet that almost every one of the career IT guys on this board will put a higher percentage of total time, free time, effort, income, and thought into computer than any doctor will into their profession across their lifetime. Both had to put in a lot of hours in college, both had to put a decent chunk of money towards education and while doctors put more they will also earn more across their lifetime, both work jobs that require long hours as a norm in the field, and both must always continue their education throughout their career. However, at the end of the day, I would guess that the number of doctor hours dedicated to volunteering doing medical work after hours or, I dunno, playing Operation or something, anything, tangentially work related pales to the techies who go home and tinker with their own machines, program for fun, run their own web-based endeavors, read about computing topics for run, hell, or even play games or something equally tangentially related.

That said, in a formal, workplace setting you see things like "John Smith, MSCE CCNA" and I would fully expect emails from doctors to be "Dr John Smith, MD" as that is part of the expected decorum and relevant to the situation. But, really, I just can't see myself calling anyone doctor in any setting except "profession" such as when I'm seeing my doctor or, say, "Professor" or "Dr Smith" in a student-teacher relationship.

SI

I sort of agree, but your first paragraph is silly. Depends of course what kind of doctor you are talking about. When I first started here as a professor, I'd spend about 5 hours every night writing grants, reading papers, and doing a lot of work related things, and that's probably on the low end (it's decreased thanks to getting funding and having a baby). But anyway, as far as I know, most certifications don't have a title associated with it, so there is nothing to call anyone. I've even known some lawyers that want to be called doctor (hey, it is a Juris Doctorate).

As has been said, I never introduce myself as a doctor because it's generally pointless outside of work. That being said, it's a hard thing to become. I spent 5 years working for about $2.50/hr (I used to calculate it late at night when I wanted to quit), after college. After that I had to spend another 3.5 years living around the poverty level doing postdoctoral research (a requirement to join academia and most industries). And that's on the short end, I've known people who took 6-7 years in grad school, as you know, at least in my field (science) you have to have contribute something new to the scientific world, and that can take a while. Medical doctors have it just as bad as most of them have to go 200k in to debt just to get their degree, then work for 40k a year doing a residency for 3 years, then if they want to specialize, another 2-4 years doing a fellowship.

I guess what I'm saying is if spending that money and time to get a degree defines who they are (to them), why go out of your way to disrespect it? It's either you're a dick, or have some inferiority complex. Of course, the person who wants to be called doctor by some customer service person probably has some kind of complex too.

[Mustang]

So your a bull shit artist?

I got it. Nice.

[sterlingice]

I guess what I'm saying is if spending that money and time to get a degree defines who they are (to them), why go out of your way to disrespect it? It's either you're a dick, or have some inferiority complex. Of course, the person who wants to be called doctor by some customer service person probably has some kind of complex too.

I get that it's a bit dickish and I wouldn't go around doing it actively as some others do. Tho as I said before, I think calling anyone "doctor" except in a setting where it is professionally accepted as I listed above (doctor-patient or professor-student) would be quite awkward for me. However, my point is basically that a lot of jobs are tough and require a proportionally large amount of work and time and effort but they don't expect to have a title applied to their name.

I understand from the two paragraphs that I didn't quote that it took a lot of work to become a doctor. I really do, my sister is in residency right now and I don't get to visit her much, even tho she only lives about an hour and a half away, because her hours are so screwed up. But that's only part of the equation, because so are mine- tho much less so than before I took this job here

My wife's mom is a high school teacher and apparently a good one as she gets asked to be on all sorts of boards on the side, tutors, coaches an extremely successful math team, etc. Yup, she gets a giant 2 month break that is ever decreasing in length. But the other 10+ months a year, we've only been up there a couple of times because even when she tried to arrange time to be with us when we were there, she would be sitting there updating lesson plans, grading tests, and even using her leisure time talking to people on education listservs because that's what she does to continue being a really good teacher.

I'm throwing out these examples because I, again, I understand that doctors had to go through a lot to get their doctorate. My point is that so many other people worked so hard their whole life for a job that they greatly consider is a part of their identity, just as doctors do, yet there are no other professions out there that routinely expect a title. So, why doctors (assuming the reason of "I worked hard to get this title" is off the table as that can describe so many other things and doesn't distinguish a doctor from others)?

SI

[DanGarion]

Seriously? It matters when someone drops the doctor card to get dinner reservations? I rarely go places that require reservations but I should start reserving places as Dr something-or-other ;)

SI
I guess I just don't see how someone thinks they deserve special treatment because they are a doctor.

[digamma]

I guess I just don't see how someone thinks they deserve special treatment because they are a doctor.

But that's a generalization you're making about them. Sure, a person could think that, but any of the following may also be plausible:
-using the Dr. may get them special treatment so they may as well give it a shot;
-they're genuinely proud of the title they've earned and want to use it;
-they've been a doctor for so long, it's second nature (and they may come from a generation where titles were more commonly used (for example, my grandmother always signed her name Mrs. [grandfather's name])).
-(specific to your experience) they started filling out the account form and got too far along before they realized they put Dr. in the name slot;
-(specific to your experience) they gave their name to an account service rep, who filled it in Dr.; or
-they're not a doctor at all, but they just like giving out fake names.

Besides, if you grant them the doctor title, it opens the door for later asking what their practice is. When they say they got a doctorate in horticulture, the real comedy ensues.

[sterlingice]

I guess I just don't see how someone thinks they deserve special treatment because they are a doctor.

I don't really either, hence my previous posts on the matter. And I'm not a doctor. But if something unverifiable like that it gets you perks from shallow people, why not ;)

How does it work, exactly. They usually ask what time and how many people but not your name when checking to see if something is available. When they ask "How can I help you?" do you just drop in a "Party of 2 for Dr. Smith wanting reservations for Friday at 7pm?" Or is it something more like "I'm sorry, we have no reservations" and then your spouse surreptitiously says something like "well, the doctor and I will dine elsewhere tonight" and they hastily reconsider?

SI

[sterlingice]

But that's a generalization you're making about them. Sure, a person could think that, but any of the following may also be plausible:
-using the Dr. may get them special treatment so they may as well give it a shot;
-they're genuinely proud of the title they've earned and want to use it;
-they've been a doctor for so long, it's second nature (and they may come from a generation where titles were more commonly used (for example, my grandmother always signed her name Mrs. [grandfather's name])).
-(specific to your experience) they started filling out the account form and got too far along before they realized they put Dr. in the name slot;
-(specific to your experience) they gave their name to an account service rep, who filled it in Dr.; or
-they're not a doctor at all, but they just like giving out fake names.

Besides, if you grant them the doctor title, it opens the door for later asking what their practice is. When they say they got a doctorate in horticulture, the real comedy ensues.

Oh, sure, now we're looking down our nose at the professional gardeners and researchers. I see how it is with doctor folks. Not content to be better than the rest of us, there's even a pecking order within the ranks. I should have known ;)

SI

[DanGarion]

I was responding to a specific comment that someone made that they occasionally throw around that they are a doctor to get reservations at a restaurant.

But that's a generalization you're making about them. Sure, a person could think that, but any of the following may also be plausible:
-using the Dr. may get them special treatment so they may as well give it a shot;
-they're genuinely proud of the title they've earned and want to use it;
-they've been a doctor for so long, it's second nature (and they may come from a generation where titles were more commonly used (for example, my grandmother always signed her name Mrs. [grandfather's name])).
-(specific to your experience) they started filling out the account form and got too far along before they realized they put Dr. in the name slot;
-(specific to your experience) they gave their name to an account service rep, who filled it in Dr.; or
-they're not a doctor at all, but they just like giving out fake names.

Besides, if you grant them the doctor title, it opens the door for later asking what their practice is. When they say they got a doctorate in horticulture, the real comedy ensues.
Had to bold that for the comedy gold.

[Mustang]

Oh, sure, now we're looking down our nose at the professional gardeners and researchers. I see how it is with doctor folks. Not content to be better than the rest of us, there's even a pecking order within the ranks. I should have known ;)


No worries. He probably is just a dermatologist...

[Draft Dodger]

I guess I just don't see how someone thinks they deserve special treatment because they are a doctor.

I ain't bowing for no fucking Queen either, I can tell you that right now

[digamma]

Oh, sure, now we're looking down our nose at the professional gardeners and researchers. I see how it is with doctor folks. Not content to be better than the rest of us, there's even a pecking order within the ranks. I should have known ;)

SI

You know it, brother.

Signed,
the lawyer who ALWAYS includes Esquire at the end of his name

[miked]

As far as the dinner reservations, of course it makes a difference. Doctors in general make more money than other professions (in general, obviously). Hence, you give them the better seats because you want them back. I have the unfortunate joy of looking really young. I'm 33 (soon) but can probably pass for early-to-mid 20s. In fact, I was at an MD/PhD recruiting event as a representative of my department, and one of the prospective students asked me if I was an M2. I laughed and said I was a faculty member, and one that would be interviewing her tomorrow. She turned white as a ghost.

Anyhow, if I make reservations at a nice restaurant and they see a youngish looking person come in, I get stuck by the kitchen, exit, or bathroom. When I say doctor, I get a much nicer table because they obviously value the repeat business of somebody they suspect has money versus a young looking person. I know it's silly, but it's true.

As for the horticulture statement, I know it was in jest but I worked for a guy who had his PhD in Ecology while I was in college. Turns out he's trying to figure out how to better grow certain plants in the semi-toxic soil of landfills, pretty admirable work.

[Desnudo]

Seriously? It matters when someone drops the doctor card to get dinner reservations? I rarely go places that require reservations but I should start reserving places as Dr something-or-other ;)

SI

My friend keeps himself as "Dr." on his airline frequent flier memberships and does get an upgrade out of it from time to time.

[sterlingice]

You know it, brother.

Signed,
the lawyer who ALWAYS includes Esquire at the end of his name

Bill S. Preston, Esquire? ;)

SI

[sterlingice]

My friend keeps himself as "Dr." on his airline frequent flier memberships and does get an upgrade out of it from time to time.

I think that's more about being in the frequent flier groups. My mom is like super duper platinum elite so when she flies anywhere else, if there's room, she's usually upgraded.

SI

[thesloppy]

As far as the dinner reservations, of course it makes a difference. Doctors in general make more money than other professions (in general, obviously). Hence, you give them the better seats because you want them back. I have the unfortunate joy of looking really young. I'm 33 (soon) but can probably pass for early-to-mid 20s. In fact, I was at an MD/PhD recruiting event as a representative of my department, and one of the prospective students asked me if I was an M2. I laughed and said I was a faculty member, and one that would be interviewing her tomorrow. She turned white as a ghost.

Anyhow, if I make reservations at a nice restaurant and they see a youngish looking person come in, I get stuck by the kitchen, exit, or bathroom. When I say doctor, I get a much nicer table because they obviously value the repeat business of somebody they suspect has money versus a young looking person. I know it's silly, but it's true.


Having spent my formative working years in the back of the restaurant trading idle chat with hostesses, I can't tell you how many times I heard the opposite story, about someone insisting their reservations be taken under "Dr. blankity blank", and subsequently getting the worst table, or "I'm sorry sir we don't have any table available until 9:30, but I'll be more than happy to put your reservation in for that time, Doctor.". But with that said, if I was cooking your food, you were making reservations for the wrong type of place, regardless. Somewhere NOT entirely staffed by 20-something horndogs and dimwits would probably have treated a doctor's reservation differently.

[Icy]

I usually don't talk about my job outside of my family, friends or people used to work in software/computers unless asked, and even if so, i try to be as vague as possible. Have on mind that in USA is more common to work from home but in Spain is something totally uncommon or inexistent even on the IT business.

As soon as i say that i work on internet advertising & web design, they become curious and start to ask more, then if tell them that i work from home, with no boss, with companies mainly from outside Spain, etc it leads to a ton of questions that are so hard to underestand to most of people that know just the basics of internet, or they start to ask curious but stupid questions about if i work just in underwear and have a messy life eating just pizza and coke as they see in movies about hackers etc or if i just do house cleaning and meals and is my wife who ears our salary.

Most of people can't understand how money is made on internet, or that the ads that see in google or even the top links when they do a search, are from companies that pay for them instead of just random. I always try to use the TV analogy, explaining how advertisement and audiences work exactly the same way, but still is can lead to really long talks that end being too technical and confusing them even more.

At the end they think i just earn some money while playing/hacking on my computer like a teen, and they can't see it as a real job. So if they know little about our lifestyle, they think we are almost homeless or if they know more about us, they can't underestand how we can have the properties or style of life we have without me having a "real job" and with my wife having a 16 hours/week job.

Talking about my job is usually a loss/loss situation, so i just say that i work with computers and they think i have the usual job as programmer in a software company.