On the eve of the second season of the Rich-Rod era...

[M GO BLUE!!!]

:popcorn:

Rich Rodriguez says Michigan Wolverines comply with rules - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4434031&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines)

I say 4 or 5 wins is a strong possibility this year!

[Dr. Sak]

I have a feeling that that video of him crying on TV is going to follow him around this season.

[RainMaker]

It doesn't matter, it's Michigan. You can do whatever the fuck you want rules wise.

[Subby]

Per Espn insider:

Michigan Wolverines

Michigan's struggles in Rich Rodriguez's first year in Ann Arbor have been very well documented. The Wolverines lost eight offensive starters from Lloyd Carr's 2007 squad, and those who returned were ill-fitted for Rodriguez's spread offense. The results were horrifying. UM badly lost the field-position battle, ranked 70th or worse in most Football Outsiders offensive measures, and ranked 112th in Passing S&P+ (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/glossary).

Is there hope for 2009? Possibly. As FO has repeatedly documented, the best predictor for success is previous success, and Michigan has still been quite good over the past five years (21st in Program FEI). They still hold a recruiting advantage over most of the conference, and they return ten offensive starters. Eight home games, much more experience, and a second year in Rodriguez's offense signal good (or at least better) things for the Wolverines in 2009.

Projected 2009 Record (from 2009 Football Outsiders Almanac (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/products)): 8-4.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

It doesn't matter, it's Michigan. You can do whatever the fuck you want rules wise.

I believe you're thinking of tOSU.

[Lathum]

I don't see 8 wins on their schedule

[Toddzilla]

if RichRod had to cheat to get to 3-9, he's the worst coach in college football history

/JonHeyman

[gstelmack]

One of the big problems in college football remains teams like Michigan playing 8 of 12 at home...

[Passacaglia]

One of the big problems in college football remains teams like Michigan playing 8 of 12 at home...

Really? I see that as one of the smallest problems college football has.

[Schmidty]

This thread makes me happy. :)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b3/Michigan_State_Spartans_logo.svg/219px-Michigan_State_Spartans_logo.svg.png

[thesloppy]

I just got back from a monstrous family wedding in Michigan, that was split down UofM MSU lines, and there was much gnashing of teeth/celebration.

Also, on a barely related subject, Sparty (the Michigan State mascot) was a surprise guest at the wedding (both bride and groom were alums) and that suit smells horrible.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

if RichRod had to cheat to get to 3-9, he's the worst coach in college football history

/JonHeyman

That is just the latest example of his genius. His system is just superior to the talent he was stuck with. His system is genius. He is genius. Genius.

[Matthean]

My guess is he never gets the Michigan job if he never coaches Pat White. His being gone from Michigan can't happen soon enough.
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[Balldog]

I believe you're thinking of tOSU.

Weak.

[Swaggs]

I can barely stand to listen to his insincere bullshit anymore. Bottom line on Rich Rod is that he is a textbook sociopath that thinks he is a lot smarter than he really is.

Word is that he is going to get named as a part of a $3.9M lawsuit filed in South Carolina over some upaid loan guarantees tomorrow.

[RainMaker]

I believe you're thinking of tOSU.
Nah, it's the NCAA. Any big program gets a free pass on the rules.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Word is that he is going to get named as a part of a $3.9M lawsuit filed in South Carolina over some upaid loan guarantees tomorrow.

My dream: Michigan takes a look at everything and releases RichRod from his responsibilities as coach, filing suit that he broke the contract. Lloyd Carr is named coach for the season & the team responds, winning 9 games (including tOSU) and a bowl.

A man can dream, right? :D

[kingnebwsu]

I thought RichRod would be exactly what michigan needed, but it's looking like I may be wrong. If people don't panic & he doesn't get fired, I think he still can turn it around. But if people are impatient and get frustrated if/when they go 7-6 this year, then he'll be off like a prom dress.

[MrBug708]

If I were Rich Rod, I'd kick those players off the team now. BEtter to save the locker room atmosphere while he still can

[Matthean]

I thought RichRod would be exactly what michigan needed, but it's looking like I may be wrong. If people don't panic & he doesn't get fired, I think he still can turn it around. But if people are impatient and get frustrated if/when they go 7-6 this year, then he'll be off like a prom dress.

7 wins is likely as good as Michigan will do this year. I'll be glad to be wrong, but outside of Rod "not having the players for his system" the defense sucked last year and I don't see that changing a lot.

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[fantom1979]

It doesn't matter, it's Michigan. You can do whatever the fuck you want rules wise.

University of Michigan basketball scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Michigan_basketball_scandal)

[Atocep]

I really thought Rich would have learned from his mistakes at WVU, but it doesn't appear to be the case. I haven't followed Michigan all that much since he's been there so I could be off-base, but from what I've seen he's taken his scorched earth approach there. The 3-8 first year at WVU is often pointed out, but he cost the team a couple wins, at least, by driving players out of the program.

He seems to be just as terrible with the media as he was at WVU as well. The difference is that the media in Ann Arbor is a bit tougher than the 4-5 homers that covered WVU on a regular basis while he was there.

I'd honestly be surprised if these accusations result in any penalties, but I do wonder if the Michigan boosters are tiring of Rich's constant bad pub. I still think he can do well there, but is he going to get the chance or are the people calling the shots going to just cut ties and find a coach that doesn't constantly have a shit storm around him?

[RomaGoth]

I was not pleased with the hiring of this douche in the first place. Michigan fucked up when they dropped the ball on hiring Les Miles imo. He is a million times the coach that RichRod could dream of being.

I can't see RichRod sticking in Ann Arbor past this season if he continues to draw negative publicity and the team continues to suck on the field. The boosters and fans will not put up with it.

Ideally, RichRod walking away with Bill Martin holding his panties as they both leave Ann Arbor would be the best scenario.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Here's my view on the state of Michigan Football and Rich Rod.

1. The team Rich Rod inherited last year didn't have a ton of talent. With all the big names that were graduating, on both sides of the ball, it was going to be a bit of a down year at Michigan. Lloyd Carr's departure and Rich Rod's signing convinced a few players who might have stayed (like Arrington) to head to the NFL or transfer (Mallet).

2. That said, the team that Rich Rod inherited was better than the 3-9 record he led them to. He did take a scorched earth approach, which resulted in driving off a few players who had stuck around and trying to force his system on players that weren't suited for it. It was all around ugly.

3. I think there have been factions within the Michigan program that weren't thrilled with Rich Rod from the get go. All of the controversy that surrounded him, the initial law suit, players defecting and citing a lack of "family values" in the program, the 3-9 record, and now all of this has just added fuel to those flames and has likely pushed a few people within the program into the anti-Rich Rod camp.

4. Since Bo, Michigan has always had one vision and has always moved in one direction when it came to football. There were no factions, no in-fighting, not inside the locker room or out. I think that has changed. I don't completely blame Rich Rod for this. I certainly don't think his smug attitude and all around approach and demeanor has helped at all, but change is never an easy thing and there are almost always going to be conflicting view points when it comes to these things. There were signs of this before Rich Rod was ever hired. The whole Les Miles thing and hunt for a new head coach was horribly executed. They way it was handled was a joke, especially for a school like Michigan. You throw in a personality like Rich Rod into the mix and things are only bound to get more divisive.

5. I am sure Michigan violated these rules, just as I am sure almost every major college program violates these rules. Now, just because everyone else does it, does not make it right, but I think it's getting blown out of propotion. The violations themselves are pretty "meh." It's more the fact that players (and their parents, incredibly lame) went to the press about it and complained. Not only did they do that, but the whole thing was timed to blow up one week before the beginning of the season. One has to imagine that most of these players were holdovers from the old regime and have suffered extreme disappointment not only in the way things have changed practice/conditioning wise, but how their expectations of what they would be doing on the field have changed. I'm sure a lot of these players saw themselves as potential starters and could/would have been, but for the regime change. Assuming that Rich Rod survives long enough, hopefully all of this nonsense will go away once there are no players left from the Lloyd Carr era. Unsettled expectations are a bitch.

6. Assuming Rich Rod does stay long enough to have a team comprised only of "his guys", I still think there could be significant issues for him at Michigan. I don't think this whole thing is simply a matter of a few disgruntled players. I think it runs deeper and goes to some of the displeasure outside of the locker room (see above) but within the football program. Those issues are much more serious for the football program for the long term. I think winning could eventually cure those ills, but I am not 100% convinced. It could just be a matter of time.

Those are my thoughts. I am bit torn. I think I would like to see Rich Rod stick it out and ultimately be successful. I think juding him after 2 years would be unfair. If things don't start showing some marked improvement after, say, 4 years then that's a serious issue. I am just not sure the powers-that-be will have that much patience, especially if too much more crap floats to the surface.

Change can be a very messy thing.

[RomaGoth]

Here's my view on the state of Michigan Football and Rich Rod.

1. The team Rich Rod inherited last year didn't have a ton of talent. With all the big names that were graduating, on both sides of the ball, it was going to be a bit of a down year at Michigan. Lloyd Carr's departure and Rich Rod's signing convinced a few players who might have stayed (like Arrington) to head to the NFL or transfer (Mallet).

2. That said, the team that Rich Rod inherited was better than the 3-9 record he led them to. He did take a scorched earth approach, which resulted in driving off a few players who had stuck around and trying to force his system on players that weren't suited for it. It was all around ugly.

3. I think there have been factions within the Michigan program that weren't thrilled with Rich Rod from the get go. All of the controversy that surrounded him, the initial law suit, players defecting and citing a lack of "family values" in the program, the 3-9 record, and now all of this has just added fuel to those flames and has likely pushed a few people within the program into the anti-Rich Rod camp.

4. Since Bo, Michigan has always had one vision and has always moved in one direction when it came to football. There were no factions, no in-fighting, not inside the locker room or out. I think that has changed. I don't completely blame Rich Rod for this. I certainly don't think his smug attitude and all around approach and demeanor has helped at all, but change is never an easy thing and there are almost always going to be conflicting view points when it comes to these things. There were signs of this before Rich Rod was ever hired. The whole Les Miles thing and hunt for a new head coach was horribly executed. They way it was handled was a joke, especially for a school like Michigan. You throw in a personality like Rich Rod into the mix and things are only bound to get more divisive.

5. I am sure Michigan violated these rules, just as I am sure almost every major college program violates these rules. Now, just because everyone else does it, does not make it right, but I think it's getting blown out of propotion. The violations themselves are pretty "meh." It's more the fact that players (and their parents, incredibly lame) went to the press about it and complained. Not only did they do that, but the whole thing was timed to blow up one week before the beginning of the season. One has to imagine that most of these players were holdovers from the old regime and have suffered extreme disappointment not only in the way things have changed practice/conditioning wise, but how their expectations of what they would be doing on the field have changed. I'm sure a lot of these players saw themselves as potential starters and could/would have been, but for the regime change. Assuming that Rich Rod survives long enough, hopefully all of this nonsense will go away once there are no players left from the Lloyd Carr era. Unsettled expectations are a bitch.

6. Assuming Rich Rod does stay long enough to have a team comprised only of "his guys", I still think there could be significant issues for him at Michigan. I don't think this whole thing is simply a matter of a few disgruntled players. I think it runs deeper and goes to some of the displeasure outside of the locker room (see above) but within the football program. Those issues are much more serious for the football program for the long term. I think winning could eventually cure those ills, but I am not 100% convinced. It could just be a matter of time.

Those are my thoughts. I am bit torn. I think I would like to see Rich Rod stick it out and ultimately be successful. I think juding him after 2 years would be unfair. If things don't start showing some marked improvement after, say, 4 years then that's a serious issue. I am just not sure the powers-that-be will have that much patience, especially if too much more crap floats to the surface.

Change can be a very messy thing.

Nicely done HB.

No matter how Rich does at Michigan, my opinion of him and the hiring of him will not change. No amount of winning will change that. However, I am still a Michigan fan and that will not change. Personally, my feelings about RichRod go back to when he was with WVU. I still think he is an overrated, self-important, blowhard. The scorched-earth analogy is just the tip of the iceberg.

Hopefully, for Michigan's sake, he will start winning and stay out of the public eye, at least regarding negative press. Still, I can't help but hope he fails at some level, kind of like Favre with the Vikings.

As for Michigan, I think HB nailed it with the disappointed players going to the press (and bringing their mommies along). Pretty juvenile, but that is what happens when things don't go the way these players wanted them to. I understand the need for change, I just don't believe a spread (aka - gimmicky) offense was necessarily the way to do it. Adapting a more USC/LSU/Florida type of offense, with an aggressive, fast defense would be my choice for a little change in the system at Michigan.

Meh, we will see I guess. Right now, I would place money on RichRod being gone by 2011 with a very strong possibility of Les Miles still being the next U of M football coach (still kinda pissed we didn't grab Urban Meyer before Florida). One can only hope....

[Atocep]

5. I am sure Michigan violated these rules, just as I am sure almost every major college program violates these rules. Now, just because everyone else does it, does not make it right, but I think it's getting blown out of propotion. The violations themselves are pretty "meh." It's more the fact that players (and their parents, incredibly lame) went to the press about it and complained. Not only did they do that, but the whole thing was timed to blow up one week before the beginning of the season. One has to imagine that most of these players were holdovers from the old regime and have suffered extreme disappointment not only in the way things have changed practice/conditioning wise, but how their expectations of what they would be doing on the field have changed. I'm sure a lot of these players saw themselves as potential starters and could/would have been, but for the regime change. Assuming that Rich Rod survives long enough, hopefully all of this nonsense will go away once there are no players left from the Lloyd Carr era. Unsettled expectations are a bitch.

This is the way I see it. The NCAA probably realizes these rules are broken by just about every team in D-1 and the main concern is probably whether or not things are taken to the extreme. My guess is Michigan cuts back a bit on their workouts and the NCAA doesn't do anything. Rich needs to stop being a disaster every time he steps in front of a mic, though.


6. Assuming Rich Rod does stay long enough to have a team comprised only of "his guys", I still think there could be significant issues for him at Michigan. I don't think this whole thing is simply a matter of a few disgruntled players. I think it runs deeper and goes to some of the displeasure outside of the locker room (see above) but within the football program. Those issues are much more serious for the football program for the long term. I think winning could eventually cure those ills, but I am not 100% convinced. It could just be a matter of time.

The biggest concern I'd have is if current players are willing to come forward on this knowing that it's a NCAA violation and it could hurt the program then there has to be some serious hatred in that locker room. Just glancing at the schedule it looks like it's soft enough to get the team to about 7 wins, but if he's lost the team before the year starts then a bad early loss could spiral into another season like the last one and I can't see any coach surviving back to back 3-9 type seasons at Michigan.

Those that are close to people in Rich's staff that I know to be trustworthy stated after the practice/workout allegations broke that there are some issues that need to be addressed inside the Michigan program or Rich is going to be in some serious shit (not NCAA violations shit, but job security shit). I'm guessing today's lawsuit is part of it. Even though it has no bearing on his ability to coach and shouldn't really even be news its just another in a long list of mistakes.

I was supportive of Rich when he left WVU and I've said many times that I think he can ultimately succeed there, but he's shown no signs thus far of making the changes he needs to make. He's still trying to run programs the same way he did at Glennville. He got away with it at WVU because the fans/boosters were sick of the Nehlen years and athletic department was swept up in the success a bit.

I'm not as optimistic about him winning at Michigan as I was a year or so ago. He has to realize that he simply can't get away with whatever the hell he wants regardless of where he's at and winning doesn't cure all at a school that won a hell of a lot of fooball games before he arrived and could win a hell of a lot of football games if he were fired tomorrow and do it with much less of a headache.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Those that are close to people in Rich's staff that I know to be trustworthy stated after the practice/workout allegations broke that there are some issues that need to be addressed inside the Michigan program or Rich is going to be in some serious shit (not NCAA violations shit, but job security shit). I'm guessing today's lawsuit is part of it. Even though it has no bearing on his ability to coach and shouldn't really even be news its just another in a long list of mistakes.

That's what I was eluding to above about how Rich Rod's issues run deeper than just a handful of disguntled players from the previous regime. I've heard similar things (from people more connected to the program than me) about people within the program being seriously displeased with him.

This is really not that surprising when you take everything into account. Michigan is an incredibly proud, some might say arrogant, football program. I'm sure many people within the program have a very, very high opinion of themselves and the football program. They've done things the "Michigan Way" for decades now and throwing a guy like Rich Rod with his own ego and arrogance into the mix and it's like oil and water.



I'm not as optimistic about him winning at Michigan as I was a year or so ago. He has to realize that he simply can't get away with whatever the hell he wants regardless of where he's at and winning doesn't cure all at a school that won a hell of a lot of fooball games before he arrived and could win a hell of a lot of football games if he were fired tomorrow and do it with much less of a headache.

I'm not either. He certainly wont be able to get away with whatever the hell he wants, especially if there are people inside who want to see him fail.

[Swaggs]

Here is the lawsuit I was alluding to last night: Michigan coach Rich Rodriguez, others sued over Va. condo deal - USATODAY.com (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2009-09-01-rodriguez-lawsuit_N.htm)

His financial advisor is claiming that Rodriguez was the victim of a Ponzi scheme. Nice timing -- on the eve of the football season he gets hit with this investigation from the DFP and now this.

[DeToxRox]

Just reading from some insiders on TheWolverine, who have been really good on info in the past. The problem is two fold: 1. there are big time donors who are livid he is here and not a Michigan man (like Les Miles obviously). 2. Lloyd Carr did not want Rich here and is not supporting him at all.

If Lloyd came out and defended the guy some of these people would back off because these alumni were Lloyd guys. But he won't because he wanted Debored or Hoke to be the HC.

I love Lloyd but he is being a crotchety old man and RichRod is learning that he has to tread carefully.

Honestly I think he'll resign before he's fired because at some point it won't be worth it for him anymore.

I still think he can win at Michigan and will win at Michigan, but we'll just have to see.

[hoopsguy]

Michigan is an incredibly proud, some might say arrogant, football program. I'm sure many people within the program have a very, very high opinion of themselves and the football program. They've done things the "Michigan Way" for decades now and throwing a guy like Rich Rod with his own ego and arrogance into the mix and it's like oil and water.


Some? SOME???

[BishopMVP]

My guess is he never gets the Michigan job if he never coaches Pat White. His being gone from Michigan can't happen soon enough.I think Rodriguez is a disaster on a personal level, and a real questionable choice considering the way Michigan wants to run its program, but the man can coach offense. At the college level at least, it's not some gimmicky thing, and while Pat White was great, that offense can still do great things with an upperclassman version of a Tate Forcier for example. Really, Rodriguez' arrogant insistence on running his offense last year and then losing Pryor to OSU doomed him for a season or two, but the offense itself will work.I was not pleased with the hiring of this douche in the first place. Michigan fucked up when they dropped the ball on hiring Les Miles imo. He is a million times the coach that RichRod could dream of being.Les Miles isn't a good coach. He isn't a bad coach on the level of Larry Coker, but he only won that national title because of Nick Saban's recruiting and a lot of luck. Watching the talent LSU has on offense and how inconsistent/terrible the product is, its no wonder that many LSU fans were hoping Michigan hired him away. But if you want consistent Lloyd Carr-esque 8-4, 9-3 records done classily by a Michigan man, he is a perfect fit.

[RainMaker]

I never understood the fascination with Rodriguez. He ran an offense that was ahead of its time and got some wins in a weak conference. He benefited from the fact that not many teams ran his offense and he could take teams by surprise. Now half the schools do and they regularly prepare for it.

It'll also be interesting to see if he's able to get the athletes to run the offense he wants at Michigan. I still think you have to run some kind of NFL style offense to be a powerhouse in that part of the country.

[RendeR]

I believe you're thinking of tOSU.

Jealousy is so unbecoming.

I don't see 8 wins on their schedule

Neither should anyone else.

Really? I see that as one of the smallest problems college football has.

QFT

This thread makes me happy. :)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b3/Michigan_State_Spartans_logo.svg/219px-Michigan_State_Spartans_logo.svg.png

Its so cute to watch Schmidty get all excited during the offseason ;)

My guess is he never gets the Michigan job if he never coaches Pat White. His being gone from Michigan can't happen soon enough.
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He coached some great kids at a strong school in a weak conference, than lands a job at a 2nd teir squad (their talent level is not at the top of the conference in recent years) in a superior conference and people wonder why he loses?

I hope he sticks around UM for decades. Its one less team the Buckeyes have to really work hard to beat.

[RainMaker]

I'll disagree with the talent level. They've produced a lot of NFL players over the last 5 years. Even the last year under Carr had some really talented players that just never played well together. The 2008 NFL draft had 6 Michigan players drafted including the #1 overall selection. Might not be national powerhouse numbers, but it definitely puts them at the top of the conference in terms of talent.

[Tigercat]

Les Miles isn't a good coach. He isn't a bad coach on the level of Larry Coker, but he only won that national title because of Nick Saban's recruiting and a lot of luck. Watching the talent LSU has on offense and how inconsistent/terrible the product is, its no wonder that many LSU fans were hoping Michigan hired him away. But if you want consistent Lloyd Carr-esque 8-4, 9-3 records done classily by a Michigan man, he is a perfect fit.

Eh? LSU offense is inconsistent/terrible? Are you crazy? LSU offense had two horrible QBs to start the year last year. A guy who couldn't start at Harvard and another QB that was a RFr INT machine. And yet the offense still averaged over 30 points a game. And that was a bad year with no QB play until the bowl game! (And in the SEC.) The two previous years LSU averaged top 10 in the nation in scoring.

The problem with LSU last year was the aforementioned QB situation after Ryan Perriloux got kicked off the team, and that Miles made a horrible decision in promoting two assistant coaches with no coordinator experience to Co-DCs. The offense has been great under Crowton's hands, its the defense that needs some stability and solid coaching. The thought is, we will get that under Chavis this year. We shall see.

But regardless, saying that offensive underachieving shows Miles isn't a good coach is ridiculous. Offensive underachieving hasn't existed under Miles except for the Auburn game in '06.

[BishopMVP]

Eh? LSU offense is inconsistent/terrible? Are you crazy? LSU offense had two horrible QBs to start the year last year. A guy who couldn't start at Harvard and another QB that was a RFr INT machine. And yet the offense still averaged over 30 points a game. And that was a bad year with no QB play until the bowl game! (And in the SEC.) The two previous years LSU averaged top 10 in the nation in scoring.

The problem with LSU last year was the aforementioned QB situation after Ryan Perriloux got kicked off the team, and that Miles made a horrible decision in promoting two assistant coaches with no coordinator experience to Co-DCs. The offense has been great under Crowton's hands, its the defense that needs some stability and solid coaching. The thought is, we will get that under Chavis this year. We shall see.

But regardless, saying that offensive underachieving shows Miles isn't a good coach is ridiculous. Offensive underachieving hasn't existed under Miles except for the Auburn game in '06.I root for LSU against other SEC teams, but compared to the talent, yes it has been inconsistent and the playcalling terrible at times. Scoring offense is a silly way to judge NCAA teams since it gives a huge advantage to good defenses and short field position. NCAA rank in total offense - 55 (2008) 26 (2007) 12 (2006) 60 (2005). But if you think running Jacob Hester and Charles Scott up the middle over and over and going for seemingly every 4th down is the way forward, go for it. (Actually, I like the 2nd part, and the 1st part does sound like Lloyd Carr Michigan/Big Ten football.) Just have fun finishing 2nd at best behind the great coach two states away that built your program up. (Unless Russell Shephard can overcome Miles' deficiencies - he should be a special one.)

[Tigercat]

I root for LSU against other SEC teams, but compared to the talent, yes it has been inconsistent and the playcalling terrible at times. Scoring offense is a silly way to judge NCAA teams since it gives a huge advantage to good defenses and short field position. NCAA rank in total offense - 55 (2008) 26 (2007) 12 (2006) 60 (2005). But if you think running Jacob Hester and Charles Scott up the middle over and over and going for seemingly every 4th down is the way forward, go for it. (Actually, I like the 2nd part, and the 1st part does sound like Lloyd Carr Michigan/Big Ten football.) Just have fun finishing 2nd at best behind the great coach two states away that built your program up. (Unless Russell Shephard can overcome Miles' deficiencies - he should be a special one.)

You play to score points, not to rack up yardage. And since you brought up Saban and how you think LSU runs the ball up the middle all the time, 2008 stats:

Glen Coffee rushing attempts: 233 (2nd leading rusher: 143)
Charles Scott rushing attempts: 217 (2nd leading rusher: 83)

Alabama total rushes: 568
LSU total rushes: 495

And that was with Alabama having less reason (senior QB) to rush the ball than LSU. Gary Crowton is not a one RB, three yards and a cloud of dust OC, and for you to suggest otherwise is ignorance at it's finest. Call Miles a sub-par coach, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But bring more sensible evidence to the table.

[cschex]

Les Miles isn't a good coach. He isn't a bad coach on the level of Larry Coker, but he only won that national title because of Nick Saban's recruiting and a lot of luck. Watching the talent LSU has on offense and how inconsistent/terrible the product is, its no wonder that many LSU fans were hoping Michigan hired him away. But if you want consistent Lloyd Carr-esque 8-4, 9-3 records done classily by a Michigan man, he is a perfect fit.


Tigercat already addressed most of this, but I still find it hilarious that people still reference the "Saban's recruits" line with Miles. They were not only coached by Miles for 3 years before they won a championship, but Saban's championship was led by many Gerry DiNardo recruits. Also, have you paid any attention to recruiting the last few years? Miles is a fantastic recruiter. Saban had a 5 loss season as well at LSU and never had back to back 10 win season (and I don't think he'll win 10 this year). Miles made one big mistake with the co-defensive coordinators last year which he appears to have rectified. The Perriloux situation left a huge void at QB which will be better this year. But go ahead, keep lionizing Saban like everyone else. This LSU alum does not want Saban back and is perfectly happy with our head coach.

[Dr. Sak]

Its so cute to watch Schmidty get all excited during the offseason ;)



http://fast1.onesite.com/community.foxsports.com/user/second-hand-lions//wolverines/ca1abfb29396c7ddbf170eb76a1e0097.jpg

[RendeR]

*chuckles*

I freely admit we've had issues in bowls lately. I'll even admit I think our team has been overrated the last few years.

We're still the best, so suck it =)

[BishopMVP]

You play to score points, not to rack up yardage. And since you brought up Saban and how you think LSU runs the ball up the middle all the time, 2008 stats:

Glen Coffee rushing attempts: 233 (2nd leading rusher: 143)
Charles Scott rushing attempts: 217 (2nd leading rusher: 83)

Alabama total rushes: 568
LSU total rushes: 495

And that was with Alabama having less reason (senior QB) to rush the ball than LSU. Gary Crowton is not a one RB, three yards and a cloud of dust OC, and for you to suggest otherwise is ignorance at it's finest. Call Miles a sub-par coach, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But bring more sensible evidence to the table.The problem wasn't the number of rushes, it was using Hester as the workhorse when he wasn't close to the best running back on the team. (I'm also not sold on Scott being the best RB currently, but that's more debatable and less egregious.)

[RomaGoth]

Tigercat already addressed most of this, but I still find it hilarious that people still reference the "Saban's recruits" line with Miles. They were not only coached by Miles for 3 years before they won a championship, but Saban's championship was led by many Gerry DiNardo recruits. Also, have you paid any attention to recruiting the last few years? Miles is a fantastic recruiter. Saban had a 5 loss season as well at LSU and never had back to back 10 win season (and I don't think he'll win 10 this year). Miles made one big mistake with the co-defensive coordinators last year which he appears to have rectified. The Perriloux situation left a huge void at QB which will be better this year. But go ahead, keep lionizing Saban like everyone else. This LSU alum does not want Saban back and is perfectly happy with our head coach.

Still like to see him coach the maize n' blue...

[Tigercat]

The problem wasn't the number of rushes, it was using Hester as the workhorse when he wasn't close to the best running back on the team. (I'm also not sold on Scott being the best RB currently, but that's more debatable and less egregious.)

Jacob Hester was the better RB. He was consistent, and not in a 3.5 yard per carry way, he averaged 5 a carry, scored plenty of TDs, and converted all his short yardage runs. Miles made the best decision in giving him the lion's share (~220) carries. Now, he did make a big mistake specifically against Kentucky in 2007 not giving Scott more carries when Scott was hot. Watching every second of every game as a LSU fan, I can tell you with full certainty that Scott wasn't ready to find the hole consistently in 2007, just as Keiland Williams still isn't ready as of today. KWs has some sick measurables, but he has poor running instincts behind the line of scrimmage. (And his agility to speed ratio isn't ideal for an elite back either.) Would love to see KW's light click on as a senior, but I don't think it will ever happen.

[Dr. Sak]

*chuckles*

I freely admit we've had issues in bowls lately. I'll even admit I think our team has been overrated the last few years.

We're still the best, so suck it =)

That was after the PSU loss last year :)

[lcjjdnh]

I love Les Miles for things like this (even if they did lose 52-9):

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[Schmidty]

Sounds like John L. Smith. Not a good thing though.

At least he didn't slap himself.

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[Balldog]

That was after the PSU loss last year :)

I think I sat on my couch in the exact same position as TP for a good hour after that game.

[Balldog]

I had an interesting discussion with some Michigan fans at work yesterday who said that Ohio State hasn't done anything in football for a long time. I said I guess winning at least a share of the Big Ten title 5 years in a row is nothing? They said yes, I said so basically winning 3 games in your mind is equal to winning the Big Ten? They said yes, anything short of a national title is nothing. I laughed, then quickly asked a couple Michigan State fans how they felt about doing nothing in basketball since 2000. Which caused quite the uproar.

[Bobble]

This is the way I see it. The NCAA probably realizes these rules are broken by just about every team in D-1 and the main concern is probably whether or not things are taken to the extreme. My guess is Michigan cuts back a bit on their workouts and the NCAA doesn't do anything.


I would think just the opposite. I agree that the NCAA has probably turned a blind eye to the practice time rules being "bent" but now that it's thrown in their face, I don't think they'll do nothing. I think they'll make sure they don't look like doormats and "make an example" of Michigan. And then, go back to turning a blind eye on practice time violations unless they're blatant. We'll see, I guess.

[Matthean]

For me personally, I would rather have Michigan land Brian Kelly versus Les Miles. He coached GVSU to multiple titles, had them play in AA as a way to have his players have a taste of the big time, went to CMU and led a team to a bowl with having maybe the fewest seniors in the country and hardly any juniors as well. Again, having CMU play against Michigan, being respectable in their game, Michigan's coaching staff saying it was one of the best prepared teams they faced all year, and then Michigan took OL schemes from CMU. All Kelly had to do was wait a year and then he doesn't get interviewed a year after being at Cincinnati where he eventually wins the Big East title with less talent than Michigan has during a 3-8 season.

If RR does wear out his welcome on the sooner side, I would be hard pressed to think of another coach Michigan should call faster that they would have a legit shot at. Well, Jim Harbaugh would be in interesting pick based on where Stanford is at later on and if he and Michigan can smooth things over. Corwin Brown might be another, but I haven't seen ND's defense as being anything special despite Brown getting press as a DC. And yes, I'm partly thinking Michigan man if RR does burn bridges quickly enough because the Michigan backers might be screaming for it.

I think RR does the Weis thing though. He puts up a horrible season and then slowly builds the record. He's given a grace period as he breaks in a new QB and "his people." In 3 to 4 years though, there will be almost no room for anything outside of a Big 10 title in the eyes of Michigan fans. 3 years might be tough depending on if Pryor stays all four years at OSU. RR does NOT want to be losing out to OSU if he's got the veteran QB and OSU is breaking in a new one. Michigan's D is bad enough it will take at least 3 years to get that corrected.
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[RomaGoth]

For me personally, I would rather have Michigan land Brian Kelly versus Les Miles. He coached GVSU to multiple titles, had them play in AA as a way to have his players have a taste of the big time, went to CMU and led a team to a bowl with having maybe the fewest seniors in the country and hardly any juniors as well. Again, having CMU play against Michigan, being respectable in their game, Michigan's coaching staff saying it was one of the best prepared teams they faced all year, and then Michigan took OL schemes from CMU. All Kelly had to do was wait a year and then he doesn't get interviewed a year after being at Cincinnati where he eventually wins the Big East title with less talent than Michigan has during a 3-8 season.

If RR does wear out his welcome on the sooner side, I would be hard pressed to think of another coach Michigan should call faster that they would have a legit shot at. Well, Jim Harbaugh would be in interesting pick based on where Stanford is at later on and if he and Michigan can smooth things over. Corwin Brown might be another, but I haven't seen ND's defense as being anything special despite Brown getting press as a DC. And yes, I'm partly thinking Michigan man if RR does burn bridges quickly enough because the Michigan backers might be screaming for it.

I think RR does the Weis thing though. He puts up a horrible season and then slowly builds the record. He's given a grace period as he breaks in a new QB and "his people." In 3 to 4 years though, there will be almost no room for anything outside of a Big 10 title in the eyes of Michigan fans. 3 years might be tough depending on if Pryor stays all four years at OSU. RR does NOT want to be losing out to OSU if he's got the veteran QB and OSU is breaking in a new one. Michigan's D is bad enough it will take at least 3 years to get that corrected.
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Yeah, Brian Kelly would be an excellent choice too. He kicked ass and took names at GVSU, and appears to be doing the same thing at Cinci. I would be happy with either him or Miles at Michigan. I just can't join the RR fan club, at least right now. Maybe if he cleans up his image, wins a lot of games, and stays out of the media, my opinion will change.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Yeah, Brian Kelly would be an excellent choice too. He kicked ass and took names at GVSU, and appears to be doing the same thing at Cinci. I would be happy with either him or Miles at Michigan. I just can't join the RR fan club, at least right now. Maybe if he cleans up his image, wins a lot of games, and stays out of the media, my opinion will change.

I had the same sort of opinion of the last woman I was seeing... If she was sleeping & doing absolutely nothing, she wasn't that bad. It was just when she did or said anything that she bugged the hell out of me.

And yes, there is a bit of jealousy currently of tOSU, MSU, Wisconsin, USC, Florida, Alabama, Oklahoma, Texas... hell, any program that looks like it has its shit together!

I'm actually torn this Saturday whether I want Michigan to avoid an embarrassing loss to Western Michigan. It would suck, but any additional pressure to DitchRod would be a good thing.

Enjoy this era, Michigan haters... It won't last forever.

[RomaGoth]

I had the same sort of opinion of the last woman I was seeing... If she was sleeping & doing absolutely nothing, she wasn't that bad. It was just when she did or said anything that she bugged the hell out of me.

And yes, there is a bit of jealousy currently of tOSU, MSU, Wisconsin, USC, Florida, Alabama, Oklahoma, Texas... hell, any program that looks like it has its shit together!

I'm actually torn this Saturday whether I want Michigan to avoid an embarrassing loss to Western Michigan. It would suck, but any additional pressure to DitchRod would be a good thing.

Enjoy this era, Michigan haters... It won't last forever.

Only a matter of time, only a matter of time.

[fantom1979]

You can never say that John L Smith didnt care

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[RendeR]

You can never say that John L Smith didnt care

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I don't recall exactly what happened there? Was he ranting about something the buckeyes did or some screw up his own staff made??

[fantom1979]

Its been a couple of years, but if I remember right, they ran a play before half with very little time left. The play did not stop the clock, and MSU tried to run their field goal team out, but there was much confusion and they did not get out in time. Basically, John L was pissed because the special teams coach did not have his unit prepared to run out there.

[fantom1979]

Nevermind, it was worse than i thought. They did get the field goal off, but in the rush, they did not block Ohio State. They blocked the field goal, and ran it back for a touchdown.

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[Gary Gorski]

Bottom line - win the Big Ten, beat Ohio State and put us in contention for the national championship and nobody will give a rats ass what he says to the media, whether he's a "Michigan man" or anything else.

If he can't get that done then he might as well quit because there are plenty of coaches with better personalities who will fall in line with the way things have always been done and will get us 8-4 every year and to a bowl game...one stepped down before RichRod and as mentioned in this thread there's no shortage of finding one to replace him.