Looks like the terrorists won...

[Subby]

ESPN Boston launched today.

http://espn.go.com/boston/index

One of the top headlines: Brady baby: QB confirms Bundchen pregnancy (http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/news/story?id=4465611)

THANK YOU INTERNETZ!

[SirFozzie]

heeheh. I love all the comments from the Boston haters "So ABC is getting rid of ESPN.COM because ESPNBoston.Com is redundant due to ESPN's love for all things Boston"

[Fidatelo]

What a craptacular idea. Also hate that the fucking site just started blaring video and audio while I sit at my desk. Fuck.

[jeff061]

I thought it was an ok idea until I saw it had the same eye gouging frustrating layout. No thanks.

They did hire Mike Reiss away from the globe unfortunately, I'll continue reading his blog.

[Maple Leafs]

So how many cities have this now?

This has to have local sports departments shaking in their boots.

[DaddyTorgo]

anyone know what the number i can call is to get my account code so that i can get my insider access even though my magazine hasn't arrived yet?

[JonInMiddleGA]

This has to have local sports departments shaking in their boots.

I seriously doubt that.

[jeff061]

I seriously doubt that.

Yes, the layout is just beyond horrible. I don't know who would go there voluntarily over other true local sites.

[SirFozzie]

Presented without comment:

Schaap Reflects On Boston Decade - ESPN Video - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4471520)

[Abe Sargent]

What the hell?

[DaddyTorgo]

i have a feeling this site will be good for cringe-worthy fun when i get home...

[Karlifornia]

It's good thing that ESPN did this. Boston is pretty much a world away from ESPN's hub of....Bristol, Connecticut!?!

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Just so everyone knows, ESPNChicago was actually the first of their local sites. ESPNDallas is opening soon (next week?) and ESPNLA and ESPNNY are starting early next year.

[Abe Sargent]

Is it just me, or is Boston, like a few other cities, a place that really needs to get over itself. (Another example would be Ann Arbor).

[DaddyTorgo]

yeah. so no need to rag on Boston. Shit...no need to rag on any of these cities. not like we ASKED for it.

[Passacaglia]

Weird, espn.go.com/grandrapids/index doesn't seem to work.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Is it just me, or is Boston, like a few other cities, a place that really needs to get over itself. (Another example would be Ann Arbor).

It's most certainly you.

[molson]

I'm not going to lie to you people, I'm going to use this site.

I'm surprised they haven't done this for every major city years ago. Boston's the perfect city for it, since Boston fans generally are very provincial (huge disparity between tv ratings for local sports v. national sports). I'm getting more like that myself, having less and less time in my life to follow sports. A lot of times I just skim for stuff on my teams anyway - this makes that easy.

[molson]

Is it just me, or is Boston, like a few other cities, a place that really needs to get over itself. (Another example would be Ann Arbor).

So Boston and Ann Arbor should do what, care about their teams less? Is that your criticisim, I don't quite follow you.

[DaddyTorgo]

Is it just me, or is Boston, like a few other cities, a place that really needs to get over itself. (Another example would be Ann Arbor).

bite me.

it's not like we asked for this or we're trumpeting our horn about this. ESPN decided they could make a buck or two by launching sites for major metropolitan areas. it was their decision, based purely on $$.

[molson]

I'm facinating by that subtle editing choice and the thought behind it DT. :)

[Passacaglia]

Word. Expecially since he won't edit his own signature.

[molson]

It looks like Boston is the 5th market they've done this for.

[dervack]

I haven't gotten my magazine yet, but was able to get into insider. Try this link and put in your info as you did when you subscribed. When I did mine, it found my info.

ESPN Insider Renew to ESPN The Magazine and Insider (https://r.espn.go.com/espn/insider/renewtoinsider?&addata=2008_MAGNB_OLD_CSV_INS_TXT)

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm facinating by that subtle editing choice and the thought behind it DT. :)

i just felt the intial 4 letter word was a bit harsh. bite me seems a bit less...angry

[DaddyTorgo]

Word. Expecially since he won't edit his own signature.

LOL - well played sir! :lol:

[Blade6119]

So Boston and Ann Arbor should do what, care about their teams less? Is that your criticisim, I don't quite follow you.
Ill jump in here lol

Its fine to care about your teams, im die-hard about my mizzou tigers and my arizona state sun devils(and my manchester united red devils, but thats another story :p ). No one complains that boston people are passionate about their teams, its their high and mighty attitude about their teams and they way they look at other cities and their teams.Now there are certainly exceptions, and it may be a small vocal minority giving this impression, but my encounters with Boston fans(along with a few others, like New York) just aren't the same as with most others teams fans. Elitist comes to mind, and most people I know agree with me on that one. Again, I also know some really cool down to earth Boston fans, and the others give them a bad name. But I think Abe is in the majority, not the minority. No one doubts your passion, its just the way you go about showing it that comes across poorly in my eyes.

I have no problems with this site, and think every major city should get one. Its a great idea to reach out to the individual communities and Boston(along with Chicago, LA, and NY) are logical first choices to test it out.

[Noop]

Well that's nice for them.

[DaddyTorgo]

I haven't gotten my magazine yet, but was able to get into insider. Try this link and put in your info as you did when you subscribed. When I did mine, it found my info.

ESPN Insider Renew to ESPN The Magazine and Insider (https://r.espn.go.com/espn/insider/renewtoinsider?&addata=2008_MAGNB_OLD_CSV_INS_TXT)

oh fuck me. it says "OR" before your account number...not "AND"

*hits self in head*

thanks.

hmm - well my subscription hasn't been processed yet apparently.

[panerd]

I thought they already had this... Sports Guy's World

[Honolulu_Blue]

Ill jump in here lol

Its fine to care about your teams, im die-hard about my mizzou tigers and my arizona state sun devils(and my manchester united red devils, but thats another story :p ). No one complains that boston people are passionate about their teams, its their high and mighty attitude about their teams and they way they look at other cities and their teams.Now there are certainly exceptions, and it may be a small vocal minority giving this impression, but my encounters with Boston fans(along with a few others, like New York) just aren't the same as with most others teams fans. Elitist comes to mind, and most people I know agree with me on that one. Again, I also know some really cool down to earth Boston fans, and the others give them a bad name. But I think Abe is in the majority, not the minority. No one doubts your passion, its just the way you go about showing it that comes across poorly in my eyes.

I have no problems with this site, and think every major city should get one. Its a great idea to reach out to the individual communities and Boston(along with Chicago, LA, and NY) are logical first choices to test it out.

I really think it's his erroneous and unnecessary paranthetical statement that got everyone up in arms.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Its fine to care about your teams, im die-hard about my mizzou tigers and my arizona state sun devils(and my manchester united red devils, but thats another story :p ). No one complains that boston people are passionate about their teams, its their high and mighty attitude about their teams and they way they look at other cities and their teams.Now there are certainly exceptions, and it may be a small vocal minority giving this impression, but my encounters with Boston fans(along with a few others, like New York) just aren't the same as with most others teams fans. Elitist comes to mind, and most people I know agree with me on that one. Again, I also know some really cool down to earth Boston fans, and the others give them a bad name. But I think Abe is in the majority, not the minority. No one doubts your passion, its just the way you go about showing it that comes across poorly in my eyes.


Using your logic, since the most prominent Mizzou fan I know is an utter douchebag, you are all utter douchebags.

[Noop]

oh fuck me. it says "OR" before your account number...not "AND"

*hits self in head*

thanks.

hmm - well my subscription hasn't been processed yet apparently.

You might want to add a no homo or a *pause* after that DT.

[Blade6119]

Using your logic, since the most prominent Mizzou fan I know is an utter douchebag, you are all utter douchebags.

Like I said, the majority of Boston fans ive come across act like that. I know some who dont, and I really like them, but the majority have acted poorly. If the majority of Mizzou fans act like that in your eyes, then yes, that logic should apply. But I wasnt referring to one bad apple in my logic. And I made sure to say that it may just be a small vocal minority giving the rest a bad rap.

I think the actions of the majority of any fan base should be representative of the fan base(I hate nebraska and their football program, but their fans are just too damn polite and nice to hate them as well)

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Of course, we should all be held accountable for other people's actions. This is a stupid conversation, I'm not sure why I get drawn into it.

[molson]

Ill jump in here lol

Its fine to care about your teams, im die-hard about my mizzou tigers and my arizona state sun devils(and my manchester united red devils, but thats another story :p ). No one complains that boston people are passionate about their teams, its their high and mighty attitude about their teams and they way they look at other cities and their teams.Now there are certainly exceptions, and it may be a small vocal minority giving this impression, but my encounters with Boston fans(along with a few others, like New York) just aren't the same as with most others teams fans. Elitist comes to mind, and most people I know agree with me on that one. Again, I also know some really cool down to earth Boston fans, and the others give them a bad name. But I think Abe is in the majority, not the minority. No one doubts your passion, its just the way you go about showing it that comes across poorly in my eyes.

I have no problems with this site, and think every major city should get one. Its a great idea to reach out to the individual communities and Boston(along with Chicago, LA, and NY) are logical first choices to test it out.

I think its really just a question of volume.

Have you ever noticed that the fanbases that are considered "jerk" fanbases are really, really large? Larger means more jerks. On top of that, there's Boston transplants all over the country because there's a crapload of colleges there, yet no jobs or affordable housing. I can understand how its very annoying to go to an Oakland A's game as a fan and see thousands of Red Sox fans there (many of them Boston transplants, who are all over the bay area). They get loud, they cheer for their team, their team wins (at least the last few years), and suddenly, they're "asshole" fans in a way that fans of the Royals, Tigers, Rangers aren't, just because those teams' fans don't travel, and don't relocate all over the country. If there were 10,000 Royals fans at every Royals road game - I guarantee you that that fanbase would soon earn a "jerk" reputation - because there will be some jerks in the 10,000

And of course, the real dynamic is winning - now I'm an asshole for being a Red Sox fan, but in the 90s, when I cared about sports much more, and was much more obnoxious, I wasn't. The winning really has brought out more bitterness and resentment. The hatred is really bizarre, and it comes out everywhere - even a thread about a stupid ESPN website.

And of course, winning creates volumes and more opportunities to be a jerk. If the Arizona Cardinals and Diamondbacks and Phoenix suns won a bunch of championships in the next few years, they're be a lot more Arizona fans, and all of their fans would be a lot more visibile. The jerks of the crowd would be far more noticeable then they are now. I mean, where would I have access to an Arizona jerk fan? They wouldn't be relevant, or out there, or visible, until they have success.

I assure you that there's plenty of University of Idaho Vandals jerk fans. Yet you wouldn't know about it, because you've probably never met one.

[Blade6119]

I think its really just a question of volume.

Have you ever noticed that the fanbases that are considered "jerk" fanbases are really, really large? Larger means more jerks. On top of that, there's Boston transplants all over the country because there's a crapload of colleges there, yet no jobs or affordable housing. I can understand how its very annoying to go to an Oakland A's game as a fan and see thousands of Red Sox fans there (many of them Boston transplants, who are all over the bay area). They get loud, they cheer for their team, their team wins (at least the last few years), and suddenly, they're "asshole" fans in a way that fans of the Royals, Tigers, Rangers aren't, just because those teams' fans don't travel, and don't relocate all over the country. If there were 10,000 Royals fans at every Royals road game - I guarantee you that that fanbase would soon earn a "jerk" reputation - because there will be some jerks in the 10,000.

And of course, the real dynamic is winning - now I'm an asshole for being a Red Sox fan, but in the 90s, when I cared about sports much more, and was much more obnoxious, I wasn't. The winning really has brought out more bitterness and resentment.

I assure you that there's plenty of University of Idaho Vandals jerk fans. Yet you wouldn't know about it, because you've probably never met one.

I absolutely agree that the large fan base, and the migration they have undertaken, are large factors in that opinion. But on your second point, im not sure I agree as much. There are different ways to handle winning, and that is where my impressions have come from. There are quite a few teams out there that win and win consistently, but don't have that rap(at least in my eyes). In regards to the patriots, I think everyone still has a bit of a grudge about the whole video-taping scandal, and how that might or might not of affected their winning ways. In baseball the complaints I usually hear are the extremely high payroll compared to other clubs(in my mind, with no salary cap in place, if you can spend the money then good for you). Like I said, the people I have come across may have been the bad apples of the lot. It just seems that you can win, and winning consistently should help you in this, without just tearing down opposing fan bases.Boston fans have a lot to be happy about recently, their teams are universally doing pretty well, and I wish them nothing but luck. I was merely passing along that my experiences haven't been the best with them, win or lose. Disparity on pro leagues makes it hard to really remain a contender for long periods of time, so the Patriots deserve tons of credit for doing what they have done.

[Sublime 2]

I think its really just a question of volume.

Have you ever noticed that the fanbases that are considered "jerk" fanbases are really, really large? Larger means more jerks. On top of that, there's Boston transplants all over the country because there's a crapload of colleges there, yet no jobs or affordable housing. I can understand how its very annoying to go to an Oakland A's game as a fan and see thousands of Red Sox fans there (many of them Boston transplants, who are all over the bay area). They get loud, they cheer for their team, their team wins (at least the last few years), and suddenly, they're "asshole" fans in a way that fans of the Royals, Tigers, Rangers aren't, just because those teams' fans don't travel, and don't relocate all over the country. If there were 10,000 Royals fans at every Royals road game - I guarantee you that that fanbase would soon earn a "jerk" reputation - because there will be some jerks in the 10,000

And of course, the real dynamic is winning - now I'm an asshole for being a Red Sox fan, but in the 90s, when I cared about sports much more, and was much more obnoxious, I wasn't. The winning really has brought out more bitterness and resentment. The hatred is really bizarre, and it comes out everywhere - even a thread about a stupid ESPN website.

And of course, winning creates volumes and more opportunities to be a jerk. If the Arizona Cardinals and Diamondbacks and Phoenix suns won a bunch of championships in the next few years, they're be a lot more Arizona fans, and all of their fans would be a lot more visibile. The jerks of the crowd would be far more noticeable then they are now. I mean, where would I have access to an Arizona jerk fan? They wouldn't be relevant, or out there, or visible, until they have success.

I assure you that there's plenty of University of Idaho Vandals jerk fans. Yet you wouldn't know about it, because you've probably never met one.

I think that hits the nail on the head...

- Fellow Boston 'Asshole' Fan

[Pumpy Tudors]

I just want to add that Royals fans, Bucks fans, Predators fans, and Pirates fan are the biggest assholes on the planet.

[molson]

In regards to the patriots, I think everyone still has a bit of a grudge about the whole video-taping scandal, and how that might or might not of affected their winning ways. In baseball the complaints I usually hear are the extremely high payroll compared to other clubs(in my mind, with no salary cap in place, if you can spend the money then good for you)

Boston fans aren't responsible for either of those things. And yet we get yelled at for this all the time.

I was at the World Series in Denver a few years ago - people were complaining to me about payrolls on the shuttle bus there and at the game. What the hell do they want me to do? I've been rooting for the team since the minimum salary was about $60,000. Should I switch teams now that the Red Sox can spend lots of money?

That singular experience was pretty hostile - more hostile than going into Yankee Stadium as a Red Sox fan. I don't believe that all Denver fans are assholes though, but a bunch definitely were, and that's definitely what I'll remember about them, so I can understand how people make that error attributing that visibility to an entire group (it's no different, though of course much more mild and harmless, then any other kind of generalization tricks that your mind plays on you)

[Blade6119]

Boston fans aren't responsible for either of those things. And yet we get yelled at for this all the time.

I was at the World Series in Denver a few years ago - people were complaining to me about payrolls on the shuttle bus there and at the game. What the hell do they want me to do? I've been rooting for the team since the minimum salary was about $60,000. Should I switch teams now that the Red Sox can spend lots of money?

Like I said, I dont have a problem with either one, I was merely explaining the complaints I often hear about the clubs

[Honolulu_Blue]

I just want to add that Royals fans, Bucks fans, Predators fans, and Pirates fan are the biggest assholes on the planet.

+1

[Dr. Sak]

I just want to add that Royals fans, Bucks fans, Predators fans, and Pirates fan are the biggest assholes on the planet.

Good use of the singular

[Blade6119]

Im a fan of Manchester United, who spend money out the ass and win titles consistently. They steal top youth players from smaller clubs, attract the best players, and get the most publicity. Its really a rather direct comparison to the Red Sox, so I can understand where the fans come from. And there are many Man U fans who gives the group bad reps because of the way they act towards their rivals and smaller Premier League clubs. I dont like it, but its the way it is.

I think other clubs, in my eyes one such example was the Nebraska Cornhuskers, have just handled winning better then other clubs. They may not be as elite now, but they were for a long time, and despite being a rival of theirs, I always respected the way they handled winning. I hope any team who does well does it with class, and Boston winning right now just makes them a visible target, as my comments were meant about a few cities. Boston just happened to be the one the conversation centered around.

[gstelmack]

No one complains that boston people are passionate about their teams, its their high and mighty attitude about their teams and they way they look at other cities and their teams.Now there are certainly exceptions, and it may be a small vocal minority giving this impression, but my encounters with Boston fans(along with a few others, like New York) just aren't the same as with most others teams fans. Elitist comes to mind, and most people I know agree with me on that one. Again, I also know some really cool down to earth Boston fans, and the others give them a bad name. But I think Abe is in the majority, not the minority. No one doubts your passion, its just the way you go about showing it that comes across poorly in my eyes.

Please go see the whole "Shitzburgh" thread. Every time somebody wins, everybody else complains about their fans. So STFU about it already, okay?

[Blade6119]

Please go see the whole "Shitzburgh" thread. Every time somebody wins, everybody else complains about their fans. So STFU about it already, okay?

I will give everyone this, the Boston fans responded in a thoughtful and intelligent manor. The guy from North Carolina was the dismissive asshole. I didn't start the argument, and I didnt come in here just to attack a singular fan base. I came in to this thread, as I do with most threads at FOFC, to have an intelligent discussion. If you would like to join me in that goal, id be happy to discuss anything you would like. :)

[gstelmack]

I will give everyone this, the Boston fans responded in a thoughtful and intelligent manor. The guy from North Carolina was the dismissive asshole. I didn't start the argument, and I didnt come in here just to attack a singular fan base. I came in to this thread, as I do with most threads at FOFC, to have an intelligent discussion. If you would like to join me in that goal, id be happy to discuss anything you would like. :)

Every couple of months, someone starts bashing Boston sports fans as the worst on the planet, ripping on them as a group for being full of jerks and stuck-ups and every other bad name you can think of. Boston fans try to point out that every fanbase has its assholes, and the others won't listen to it.

Then in between there are two or three threads pointing out how bad ( insert recently successful team )'s fans are, validating our point. It was just Friday and over the weekend in the NFL thread that the whole Pittsburgh thing came up.

I'm tired of the cycle. Give it a rest. Every team has its bad fans, the worst ones come out of the woodwork when a team is successful, and Boston has had a recently successful run so the worst ones are out plus people love to kick the folks on top. I'm tired of being insulted just because I was born in Massachusetts and have rooted for the Patriots for as long as I knew they existed.

[SirFozzie]

I think a lot of it is that.. well.. the age of heterogeneous fanbases is pretty much over. Before, if you were a Boston fan, it was because you lived in the area, or used to live in the area (a lot of Boston fans moved to Florida/Arizona to retire for example.)

Now, in the days of MLB Extra Innings, DirecTV, 24 hour sports networks all over the place, it's a lot easier to front-run.

One of the other things is that with all the messageboards, there's a lot more interaction between what I call Asshole Fans. (for example, any ESPN.COM comment section)

This is not just related to sports, god help us all if you go to politico, or any politics story that has a comment form out there. The creme de la crap becomes prominent. (I hope this links, but the Penny Arcade comic really sums it all up nicely)

http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2004/20040319h.jpg

The problem you start mistaking the illusion (the assholes and idiots),for the reality (the 80-95% of normal fans)

[Blade6119]

Every couple of months, someone starts bashing Boston sports fans as the worst on the planet, ripping on them as a group for being full of jerks and stuck-ups and every other bad name you can think of. Boston fans try to point out that every fanbase has its assholes, and the others won't listen to it.

Then in between there are two or three threads pointing out how bad ( insert recently successful team )'s fans are, validating our point. It was just Friday and over the weekend in the NFL thread that the whole Pittsburgh thing came up.

I'm tired of the cycle. Give it a rest. Every team has its bad fans, the worst ones come out of the woodwork when a team is successful, and Boston has had a recently successful run so the worst ones are out plus people love to kick the folks on top. I'm tired of being insulted just because I was born in Massachusetts and have rooted for the Patriots for as long as I knew they existed.
First of all, your trying to make your early points on the exact same points myself and other boston fans have already agreed upon. So try reading the discussion before you jump in and rehash arguments in a negative manor. We all already agreed every city/team has its asshole fans, winning bring them out of the woodworks, and the volume of boston fans both in number and spread out nationally makes it more evident. And like I originally said, and they agreed upon, it is likely the vocal minority giving the vast majority a bad rap.

Im sick of being insulted for being a Manchester United fan, we get a bad rap, but its because they win and they do have a lot of jerk fans spread out all around the globe. Does it suck being berated for winning and other fans acting poorly? Sure...can I change their actions? Not one bit. Sorry you dont like your team being ragged on, but it comes with the territory. But if you want to change that perception, when people come along and comment or question your fan base's attitude, telling them to stfu and go away isn't the best way. If anything it makes those beliefs more concrete. Your fellow Boston fans here did the right thing and handled criticism with class and discussed their own viewpoints on the matter in an intelligent manor, and I respect that. For your own sake, so people stop making you feel insulted for where you were born, lets both try to follow their example going forward. :)

[Big Fo]

Im a fan of Manchester United, who spend money out the ass and win titles consistently. They steal top youth players from smaller clubs, attract the best players, and get the most publicity. Its really a rather direct comparison to the Red Sox, so I can understand where the fans come from. And there are many Man U fans who gives the group bad reps because of the way they act towards their rivals and smaller Premier League clubs. I dont like it, but its the way it is.

Net transfer spending since the Glazer takeover in June 2005:

Man Utd: £6.25m
Arsenal: -£27.87m
Chelsea: £97.5m
Liverpool: £88.35m
Man City: £232.45m
Spurs: £132m

The outspending everyone else ended years ago but they keep on winning titles.

I consider the whole stealing youth players thing a noble protest of the FA's ridiculous 90 minutes rule.

[cuervo72]

I think other clubs, in my eyes one such example was the Nebraska Cornhuskers, have just handled winning better then other clubs. They may not be as elite now, but they were for a long time, and despite being a rival of theirs, I always respected the way they handled winning.

Funny...I've always hated Nebraska, and I don't root for any of their rivals.


edit: I think part of this is because the state treats the Nebraska players as semi-dieties who are above the law

[Blade6119]

Net transfer spending since the Glazer takeover in June 2005:

Man Utd: £6.25m
Arsenal: -£27.87m
Chelsea: £97.5m
Liverpool: £88.35m
Man City: £232.45m
Spurs: £132m

The outspending everyone else ended years ago but they keep on winning titles.

I consider the whole stealing youth players thing a noble protest of the FA's ridiculous 90 minutes rule.
Take out the ronaldo transfer and Man U is right up there with liverpool and chelsea. They tried to spend 40 mil that money on Benzema but were out-bid.

So I appreciate that spending has slowed down with the debt the Glazers brought on board, its also a little misleading as that Ronaldo money(80 mil) will be spent, they just couldnt find anyone in the last transfer window at the right price.

[gstelmack]

First of all, your trying to make your early points on the exact same points myself and other boston fans have already agreed upon. So try reading the discussion before you jump in and rehash arguments in a negative manor. We all already agreed every city/team has its asshole fans, winning bring them out of the woodworks, and the volume of boston fans both in number and spread out nationally makes it more evident. And like I originally said, and they agreed upon, it is likely the vocal minority giving the vast majority a bad rap.

Im sick of being insulted for being a Manchester United fan, we get a bad rap, but its because they win and they do have a lot of jerk fans spread out all around the globe. Does it suck being berated for winning and other fans acting poorly? Sure...can I change their actions? Not one bit. Sorry you dont like your team being ragged on, but it comes with the territory. But if you want to change that perception, when people come along and comment or question your fan base's attitude, telling them to stfu and go away isn't the best way. If anything it makes those beliefs more concrete. Your fellow Boston fans here did the right thing and handled criticism with class, and I respect that. For your own sake, so people stop making you feel insulted for where you were born, lets both try to follow their example going forward. :)

I have tried the intelligent discourse part here on the board before when this topic comes up. It hasn't worked in the past. As I said, this discussion has come up every couple of months for the last 2 years or so, and I'm tired of the same old cycle of "Boston sports fans suck. No we don't. Yes you do, I know lots of you and you all suck". You can only take so many insults before you've had it. And most of the discussion involves comments like your "my encounters with Boston fans(along with a few others, like New York) just aren't the same as with most others teams fans. Elitist comes to mind, and most people I know agree with me on that one". Sure, you're willing to admit exceptions, but the reality is that the jerks are the exception. And what's funny is a month or so later someone is all over another fanbase, and those same folks are more than willing to defend that fanbase as just having its vocal minorities.

If you want an intelligent debate, try not starting it off with an attack. When attacked back (or in this case, just told to STFU and drop it, since it's a tired and old act on this board), don't act all innocent. Especially when there is a long history of Boston sports fans being a punching bag for a group on this board who like to dismiss the whole group out of hand, despite constant evidence that every fanbase has jerks in it; you don't see me bringing up soccer hooligans as a reason to hate all UK soccer fans, do you? So give it a rest, all of you.

[ISiddiqui]

I just think its funny that all the stuff Red Sox fans that I've known were complaining about the Yankees for (buying players, spending a ton, a few arrogant fans who consider it their birthright to be in the WS, etc) is the exact same thing you can critique the Red Sox for :D.

[Blade6119]

I have tried the intelligent discourse part here on the board before when this topic comes up. It hasn't worked in the past. As I said, this discussion has come up every couple of months for the last 2 years or so, and I'm tired of the same old cycle of "Boston sports fans suck. No we don't. Yes you do, I know lots of you and you all suck". You can only take so many insults before you've had it. And most of the discussion involves comments like your "my encounters with Boston fans(along with a few others, like New York) just aren't the same as with most others teams fans. Elitist comes to mind, and most people I know agree with me on that one". Sure, you're willing to admit exceptions, but the reality is that the jerks are the exception. And what's funny is a month or so later someone is all over another fanbase, and those same folks are more than willing to defend that fanbase as just having its vocal minorities.

If you want an intelligent debate, try not starting it off with an attack. When attacked back (or in this case, just told to STFU and drop it, since it's a tired and old act on this board), don't act all innocent. Especially when there is a long history of Boston sports fans being a punching bag for a group on this board who like to dismiss the whole group out of hand, despite constant evidence that every fanbase has jerks in it; you don't see me bringing up soccer hooligans as a reason to hate all UK soccer fans, do you? So give it a rest, all of you.

Lets trace this back, if you want to go there. Who started the attacks? It could have been abe, who told boston fans to get over themselves. It could have been DT, you used one four letter word then edited it to say bite me.

Molson then came in with a thoughtful question, which I tried to answer as best I could. If you read my posts, I didnt come out swinging and insulting. I tried to explain Abe's attack to molson using my own personal experiences. We then proceeded to discuss the validity of my observations and general beliefs about the fanbase. Then we moved into the realities of the clubs in question, and what would happen if the roles were reversed. And then I tried to relate my own experiences as a fan of a successful club to theirs as best I could.

Now if all of that is nothing more just an ignorant attack on a fan base to you, then I don't know what you want from me? But I didnt start the attacks, abe did, And I didnt respond to DT attacking back. Molson posed an intelligent question and I did my best to answer as honestly and coherently as I could in the following discussion. Not sure what more you want from me, as I know I can be an idiot and a jerk at times, but I truly was not trying to be in this instance.

And through it all, with your soccer reference, you are failing to listen to what is presented. We discussed, we agreed about vocal minorities, so stop with the same point and lets move along with the discussion.

[Big Fo]

I just think its funny that all the stuff Red Sox fans that I've known were complaining about the Yankees for (buying players, spending a ton, a few arrogant fans who consider it their birthright to be in the WS, etc) is the exact same thing you can critique the Red Sox for :D.

Don't forget bandwagoners.

And yes Boston fan everyone knows bandwagoners aren't just a Boston thing and that all Boston fans on this board will insist that they have lived and died with their teams since they were chillin' in their mother's wombs, so save the effort.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Don't forget bandwagoners.

And yes Boston fan everyone knows bandwagoners aren't just a Boston thing and that all Boston fans on this board will insist that they have lived and died with their teams since they were chillin' in their mother's wombs, so save the effort.

How you manage to be from Manchester, Atlanta and Miami is a fact that constantly astounds me.

And yes, I'm sure you have perfectly valid reasons for the teams you like, so save the effort.

[molson]

I just think its funny that all the stuff Red Sox fans that I've known were complaining about the Yankees for (buying players, spending a ton, a few arrogant fans who consider it their birthright to be in the WS, etc) is the exact same thing you can critique the Red Sox for :D.

This is the typical stuff in these threads - who's even saying this? Why is any mention of Boston (it's a new website site for god's sake, that's the topic here) an occasion for everyone to pile on with all their little stories about how red sox fans are assholes? It's incredibly obnoxious. It'd be considered trolling if it were any other topic. I don't even bother wading through a Boston game-day thread here anymore because it's just commentary on the fans.

It's just douchebag stuff. The only purpose to attacking someone constantly about salary caps and spygate (when they have nothing to do with either) is to try to bring them down from their feelings of happiness over their team's success. It's petty, jelous, douchebag stuff. It's the guy that has to bring everyone down to his level of misery. You tell him something good that happened, and he'll poke holes in it. That guy's in every office, and there's quite a few of them at FOFC.

[gstelmack]

Lets trace this back, if you want to go there. Who started the attacks?

As I said, there is a LONG history of bashing Boston fans in this forum.

And through it all, with your soccer reference, you are failing to listen to what is presented. We discussed, we agreed about vocal minorities, so stop with the same point and lets move along with the discussion.

Why did the discussion even start then? There are some jerk Boston fans. Great, let's move on, since that's like saying "the sky is blue". How is this going to lead to an intelligent discussion beyond folks like molson pointing out the blindingly obvious?

Instead we had a "Boston needs to get over itself" blanket statement, some folks saying "So ESPN creating a Boston site means Boston has a problem?" and "So Boston fans shouldn't care?" and you respond to the latter with "Boston fans tend to be more elitist". And you point out that there are "exceptions", not that the bad apples are the exception. You keep trying to cover yourself with "Like I said, the people I have come across may have been the bad apples of the lot." If you really mean that, then don't follow it up with "It just seems that you can win, and winning consistently should help you in this, without just tearing down opposing fan bases". The fun part is most Boston fans on this board DON'T attack opposing fanbases, we're usually the ones under attack, and we're usually the ones defending other fanbases when folks try to jump on them.

[Passacaglia]

LOL - well played sir! :lol:

And yet you STILL haven't fixed it!!

[gstelmack]

This is the typical stuff in these threads - who's even saying this? Why is any mention of Boston (it's a new website site for god's sake, that's the topic here) an occasion for everyone to pile on with all their little stories about how red sox fans are assholes? It's incredibly obnoxious. It'd be considered trolling if it were any other topic. I don't even bother wading through a Boston game-day thread here anymore because it's just commentary on the fans.

That's a much more succinct way of writing my thoughts, molson. Thanks!

[Blade6119]

Why did the discussion even start then? There are some jerk Boston fans. Great, let's move on, since that's like saying "the sky is blue". How is this going to lead to an intelligent discussion beyond folks like molson pointing out the blindingly obvious?

Instead we had a "Boston needs to get over itself" blanket statement, some folks saying "So ESPN creating a Boston site means Boston has a problem?" and "So Boston fans shouldn't care?" and you respond to the latter with "Boston fans tend to be more elitist". And you point out that there are "exceptions", not that the bad apples are the exception. You keep trying to cover yourself with "Like I said, the people I have come across may have been the bad apples of the lot." If you really mean that, then don't follow it up with "It just seems that you can win, and winning consistently should help you in this, without just tearing down opposing fan bases". The fun part is most Boston fans on this board DON'T attack opposing fanbases, we're usually the ones under attack, and we're usually the ones defending other fanbases when folks try to jump on them.

I think both sides are drinking their own kool-aid if you think you mr. innocent here. The discussion started because Boston is being treated to something most cities dont and may never get. ESPN and other media outlets already gives excess amount of attention to cities like Boston(and I understand the reasons being financially motivated, but its still annoying). I came in thinking that the majority of boston fans were jerks and the minority were good guys. I had a nice discussion about those views, and backed off my views to a certain extent because of how the Boston fans like molson and fozzie handled the discussion. Then you come in and act like an ass, granted in response to having your team called out, but an ass never the less. If you want to sit here and say every fan base had bad apples, Boston is mostly good, then fine. But to go from there and start saying Boston is the good guy defending everyone else and all the other teams are just assholes who hate your innocent little boston team is preposterous. Im sorry, but thats just hilarious that you are that self righteous. I think its great that Boston fans support their teams, wherever they may have become a fan and however long they have been one. Having passionate fans is what sports is all about. I have a set of views, I shared them and discussed them, and some of your friends made me question them.

But you are acting just like the assholes I attribute to Boston fans...maybe your the vocal minority, maybe your the majority, but people like you give people like Foz a bad rap for being boston fans.

[PilotMan]

So is Brady going to leave this wife too, now that she's pregnant?

[jeff061]

Hard to trade up from this one.

[ISiddiqui]

This is the typical stuff in these threads - who's even saying this? Why is any mention of Boston (it's a new website site for god's sake, that's the topic here) an occasion for everyone to pile on with all their little stories about how red sox fans are assholes? It's incredibly obnoxious. It'd be considered trolling if it were any other topic. I don't even bother wading through a Boston game-day thread here anymore because it's just commentary on the fans.

It's just douchebag stuff. The only purpose to attacking someone constantly about salary caps and spygate (when they have nothing to do with either) is to try to bring them down from their feelings of happiness over their team's success. It's petty, jelous, douchebag stuff. It's the guy that has to bring everyone down to his level of misery. You tell him something good that happened, and he'll poke holes in it. That guy's in every office, and there's quite a few of them at FOFC.

You have to wonder if this is how Yankee fans feel when Bostonions rip into them ;)

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Keep trying, I'm sure someone will bite. ;)

[Young Drachma]

So is Brady going to leave this wife too, now that she's pregnant?

To be fair, he'd already broken up with the last one (and they were just dating) and was dating this chick when it was announced she was pregnant.

[Honolulu_Blue]

So is Brady going to leave this wife too, now that she's pregnant?

Brady was never married to Bridget Moynahan, so he never left any wife. Stop the lies and misinformation, please.

[Karlifornia]

Boy, the Boston contingent seems a little sensitive. If I were you guys, I'd just say:

You don't like us? Are you jealous because our teams have actually won something? BOO FUCKING HOO, and if it bothers you, invest in some earplugs.

[DaddyTorgo]

lol - so i attacked back? is that the general consensus?

[Blade6119]

lol - so i attacked back? is that the general consensus?

Personally, I thought you were in totally good humor as usual...I just mentioned you since gstel wanted to take any comment in the thread as a deadly serious attack, so I put it into context I hoped he might understand :p

[JonInMiddleGA]

The primary purpose to attacking someone constantly about salary caps and spygate (when they have nothing to do with either) is to try to bring them back down toward reality from the typical unjustifiable perch they try to glue themselves to with third hand glory borrowed from a sports team(s) whose success they played zero part in. It's poking holes in the douchebags' ballon.

Fixed that for you.

[Passacaglia]

lol - so i attacked back? is that the general consensus?

No, the general consensus is that your signature is still fucked up!

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

If Pass can get DTs signature fixed, then maybe some good can come of this thread.

[Abe Sargent]

My skin's pretty tight, so I didn't have a problem with DT's retort.

[DaddyTorgo]

Personally, I thought you were in totally good humor as usual...I just mentioned you since gstel wanted to take any comment in the thread as a deadly serious attack, so I put it into context I hoped he might understand :p

awww thanks Blade6119!! :D

[DaddyTorgo]

my signature doesn't need to be fixed - it's true!

[DaddyTorgo]

pass - you gonna come out and have a drink with me when i'm in chicago the end of october?

[SirFozzie]

No, they mean the damn bolding of the M Go Blue quote

(beats DT over the head with a stick)

[Passacaglia]

my signature doesn't need to be fixed - it's true!

Do you seriously not see what is wrong with it?

[spleen1015]

my signature doesn't need to be fixed - it's true!

Your tags are jacked....

[DaddyTorgo]

oh - i didn't realize my tags were jacked. i have view signatures turned off...fixing!

[Passacaglia]

pass - you gonna come out and have a drink with me when i'm in chicago the end of october?

Hells yeah!

[DaddyTorgo]

fixed!

yeah - think i'll be at a conference like the last weds/thurs of october (forget the dates right now) so i'll have to slot in some FOFC-time there.

[JonInMiddleGA]

oh - i didn't realize my tags were jacked. i have view signatures turned off...fixing!

:lol:

[molson]

Fixed that for you.

I don't think I have anything to do with the success of the teams I root for, so your point completely escapes me.

But I can meet you halfway there - if a fan of team claims that their success is all because of them, and then they're knocked back to earth, then that's not a douchebag move. Though that covers 0.01% of situations.

But ya, in the other 99.99% of occasions, its just about bitterness and being a dick.

[gstelmack]

But you are acting just like the assholes I attribute to Boston fans...maybe your the vocal minority, maybe your the majority, but people like you give people like Foz a bad rap for being boston fans.

ESPN creates a new Boston site (not their first city-specific one, not going to be their last), people use it as this month's excuse to pile onto Boston sports fans, I say enough already as this is getting tiring, and I'm the asshole. Got it.

All I said was STFU about Boston sports fans. I didn't get all pretentious about the team, I didn't rave on how good they are, I didn't bash other fans. I just said stop the regular ranting about how evil a fanbase Boston has, we've heard the sweeping generalizations before ad nauseum. And I'm sure someone will come up with another excuse next month to bait us.

[Pumpy Tudors]

About time that signature got fixed.

Edit: Actually, it ain't even totally fixed totally fixed.

[Oilers9911]

I don't think most Boston sports fans are that bad. My problem is with the bandwagon fans of whatever team. Before they were good I barely remember any Red Sox fans at Skydome/Rogers Centre. Now it's full of them and it makes me nuts. Same goes for Yankee "fans" Manchester United "fans" etc. It drives me nuts when someone says they are a Manchester United fan because you just know most of them are fans of the team because they win. I'm just glad most of the teams I root for aren't damn well good enough for me to be accused of getting on the bandwagon. :)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Though that covers 0.01% of situations.

Not with Boston fans who seem to make up a significant percentage of those the rest of the world encounters, that's what you seem to be missing.

Odds are, the split isn't actually as pronounced as it often seems. Well behaved, rational, reasonable fans are probably like offensive linemen who don't get flagged for penalties, they don't get noticed as much as they guy who people believe had a mama who named him "Holding".

But certain fanbases have a definite tendency to have a higher frequency of obnoxious assholes that provide their public face to the rest of the world outside their market/region. In Boston's case, the effect is amplified by the historical nausea caused by Celtics fans over the years combined by the more recent Pats & Sox delirium and I think that accounts (consciously or not) for why it's more often phrased "Boston fans" than "Red Sox fans" or "Patriots fans", there's a cumulative effect at work.

It doesn't always work that way, for example I don't ever recall hating Notre Dame basketball fans (when they were good back in the day) the way ND football fans get it, they simply seemed to be better behaved. And it isn't always success related, look at the different reactions that, say, the Cowboys & Steelers fan bases generate (outside of some regional/divisional rivals perhaps). It isn't always only about the team & success, contrary to what some people try to insist, there's definitely elements of the fan behavior that's presented to the world that goes into the reaction they generate.

[SirFozzie]

I think at least some of it.. is if you're going to label something "America's Team".. oh yeah, the rest of America's gone chime in and say "WTF??? Those *@_)$&@_$ don't represent me!"

Cowboys, Patriots, yeah. I'm looking at you two...

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Jon,

Are you insinuating that people like Cowboys and Steelers fans? I'm not so sure that's the case.

[molson]

Not with Boston fans who seem to make up a significant percentage of those the rest of the world encounters, that's what you seem to be missing.

Odds are, the split isn't actually as pronounced as it often seems. Well behaved, rational, reasonable fans are probably like offensive linemen who don't get flagged for penalties, they don't get noticed as much as they guy who people believe had a mama who named him "Holding".

But certain fanbases have a definite tendency to have a higher frequency of obnoxious assholes that provide their public face to the rest of the world outside their market/region. In Boston's case, the effect is amplified by the historical nausea caused by Celtics fans over the years combined by the more recent Pats & Sox delirium and I think that accounts (consciously or not) for why it's more often phrased "Boston fans" than "Red Sox fans" or "Patriots fans", there's a cumulative effect at work.

It doesn't always work that way, for example I don't ever recall hating Notre Dame basketball fans (when they were good back in the day) the way ND football fans get it, they simply seemed to be better behaved. And it isn't always success related, look at the different reactions that, say, the Cowboys & Steelers fan bases generate (outside of some regional/divisional rivals perhaps). It isn't always only about the team & success, contrary to what some people try to insist, there's definitely elements of the fan behavior that's presented to the world that goes into the reaction they generate.

How do you know anything about how well Notre Dame behave, or what Boston fans are like? Seriously, where do these perceptions come from? How many years have you lived in New England? Did you meet everyone while you were there?

I have certain perceptions about what a backwards, racist place Georgia is, but I can recognize that isn't based on any kind of scientific reality or any personal experience (even if I've met a handful of moron Georgians, which I have). And when Georgia is brought up in a thread, I don't feel the need to share with all Georgians how much of a shithole their state is, and how the people there are slow-witted inbreds. If that happened every time Georgia came up here - you'd get a little tired of it.

[DaddyTorgo]

How do you know anything about how well Notre Dame fans are behaved, or what Boston fans are like? Seriously, where do these perceptions come from? How many years have you lived in New England?

I have certain perceptions about what a backwards, racist place Georgia is, but I can recognize that isn't based on any kind of scientific reality or any personal experience (even if I've met a handful of moron Georgians, which I have). And when Georgia is brought up in a thread, I don't feel the need to share with all Georgians how much of a shithole their state is, and how the people there are slow-witted inbreds. If that happened every time Georgia came up here - you'd get a little tired of it.

i think you've got a point...idk...maybe you should start...

[McSweeny]

Boy, the Boston contingent seems a little sensitive. If I were you guys, I'd just say:

You don't like us? Are you jealous because our teams have actually won something? BOO FUCKING HOO, and if it bothers you, invest in some earplugs.

this is where i am

[sterlingice]

I just want to add that Royals fans, Bucks fans, Predators fans, and Pirates fan are the biggest assholes on the planet.

Funny, I heard the same thing about New Orleans VooDoo fans ;)

SI

[ISiddiqui]

Keep trying, I'm sure someone will bite. ;)

I'm quite sure molson already has :D.

[molson]

I'm quite sure molson already has :D.

I'm not sure what's more sad, me taking the bait on occasion or you considering it some kind of life accomplishment.

[ISiddiqui]

Jon,

Are you insinuating that people like Cowboys and Steelers fans? I'm not so sure that's the case.

No. He's saying look at the disparity on how people treat the fans of those two fanbases. People DESPISE the Cowboys and their fanbase, but generally people like or are ambivalent about the Steelers and their fanbase (adjusting for regional hatreds and what not).

So it isn't just about success, because if it was, people would hate the Steelers right now.

[ISiddiqui]

I'm not sure what's more sad, me taking the bait on occasion or you considering it some kind of life accomplishment.

Hey, I'm just responding to Ronnie. You can take it in whatever way you want. Though I'll still call the Red Sox "Yankees Lite" and see the gymnastics Red Sox fans go through in trying to distinguish themselves ;)

[ISiddiqui]

And when Georgia is brought up in a thread, I don't feel the need to share with all Georgians how much of a shithole their state is, and how the people there are slow-witted inbreds. If that happened every time Georgia came up here - you'd get a little tired of it.

Most because of there being so many people who live in Georgia on this board, BUT, you don't think that this doesn't happen outside of FOFC?! Georgia gets slammed constantly (though not as much as Alabama and Mississippi). Of course, I'm used to it since I'm from New Jersey, which gets slammed even more.

[sterlingice]

I don't know how you guys end up being so un-liked when there are quite a few responses that are basically slams at whatever teams the other poster happens to cheer for and a few others that sound like "well, if your team won like ours did, you'd have a-holes, too" ;)

But, more importantly, shouldn't this thread be about how ESPN sucks not Boston? Boston didn't make ESPN Boston- ESPN did

SI

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

No. He's saying look at the disparity on how people treat the fans of those two fanbases. People DESPISE the Cowboys and their fanbase, but generally people like or are ambivalent about the Steelers and their fanbase (adjusting for regional hatreds and what not).

So it isn't just about success, because if it was, people would hate the Steelers right now.

Why Your Team Sucks: Pittsburgh Steelers - 2009 NFL preview - Deadspin (http://deadspin.com/5354828/why-your-team-sucks-pittsburgh-steelers)

[ISiddiqui]

Aside from the fact that Deadspin did that for every team?

[Logan]

We could've saved 100 posts and just blamed Ben Affleck.

[molson]

I don't know how you guys end up being so un-liked when there are quite a few responses that are basically slams at whatever teams the other poster happens to cheer for and a few others that sound like "well, if your team won like ours did, you'd have a-holes, too" ;)

But, more importantly, shouldn't this thread be about how ESPN sucks not Boston? Boston didn't make ESPN Boston- ESPN did

SI

I'm not sure what the "correct" response is (any response seems to get shit on) I've even had you attack me in the MLB threads year after year about payroll disparities when I've said repeatedly I'm in favor of a salary cap. You still attack anyway. What else can I do? Pity? I do feel bad for you. Do you want a cookie? A hug?

[molson]

Aside from the fact that Deadspin did that for every team?

If your point is that nobody hates the Steelers, its an incorrect point.

[ISiddiqui]

But, more importantly, shouldn't this thread be about how ESPN sucks not Boston? Boston didn't make ESPN Boston- ESPN did

SI

No one disagrees with the sentiment that ESPN sucks. Therefore it would have been a dull thread if we all agreed on the suckiness of ESPN.

[ISiddiqui]

If your point is that nobody hates the Steelers, its an incorrect point.

Yes, tht was exactly my point - that no one in the world hates the Steelers. Good job, Tiger.

[fantom1979]

I am going to step on a ledge here and say that Render is not a big fan of the Steelers.. ;)

[molson]

Yes, tht was exactly my point - that no one in the world hates the Steelers. Good job, Tiger.

So what's your point then? That not many people in the world hate the Steelers?

I'm just trying to figure out what the hell you're talking about.

[Alan T]

I am going to step on a ledge here and say that Render is not a big fan of the Steelers.. ;)

I thought he just didn't like people from the city of Pittsburgh? :)

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Aside from the fact that Deadspin did that for every team?

If you read that and tell me "no one hates the Steelers" then you would have a point.

In my opinion, and I read quite a few of them, it was among the most vitriolic.

[gstelmack]

Though I'll still call the Red Sox "Yankees Lite" and see the gymnastics Red Sox fans go through in trying to distinguish themselves ;)

Heh. You'd be right a few years back, but the current administration does not just drop money on anyone like they did a few years ago or like the Yankees do now:

<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR class=bg0 align=left><TD colSpan=6>2009 Team Payrolls</TD></TR><TR id=special class=bg4 align=left><TD class=bg1 align=left>No.</TD><TD class=bg1 align=left>Team</TD><TD class=bg1 align=right>Payroll</TD><TD class=bg1 align=right>Average</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 height=17 vAlign=center align=right><TD align=left>1.</TD><TD align=left>New York Yankees (http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/teams/page/NYY)</TD><TD align=right>$201,449,289</TD><TD align=right>$7,748,050</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 height=17 vAlign=center align=right><TD align=left>2.</TD><TD align=left>New York Mets (http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/teams/page/NYM) </TD><TD align=right>$135,773,988</TD><TD align=right>$4,849,071</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 height=17 vAlign=center align=right><TD align=left>3.</TD><TD align=left>Chicago Cubs (http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/teams/page/CHC)</TD><TD align=right>$135,050,000</TD><TD align=right>$5,402,000</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 height=17 vAlign=center align=right><TD align=left>4.</TD><TD align=left>Boston Red Sox (http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/teams/page/BOS)</TD><TD align=right>$122,696,000</TD><TD align=right>$4,089,867</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 height=17 vAlign=center align=right><TD align=left>5.</TD><TD align=left>Detroit Tigers (http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/teams/page/DET)</TD><TD align=right>$115,085,145</TD><TD align=right>$4,110,184</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 height=17 vAlign=center align=right><TD align=left>6.</TD><TD align=left>Los Angeles Angels (http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/teams/page/ANA)</TD><TD align=right>$113,709,000</TD><TD align=right>$4,061,036</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 height=17 vAlign=center align=right><TD align=left>7.</TD><TD align=left>Philadelphia Phillies (http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/teams/page/PHI)</TD><TD align=right>$113,004,048</TD><TD align=right>$4,185,335</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 height=17 vAlign=center align=right><TD align=left>8.</TD><TD align=left>Houston Astros (http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/teams/page/HOU) </TD><TD align=right>$102,996,415</TD><TD align=right>$3,814,682</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 height=17 vAlign=center align=right><TD align=left>9.</TD><TD align=left>Los Angeles Dodgers (http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/teams/page/LA)</TD><TD align=right>$100,458,101</TD><TD align=right>$4,018,324</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Really, I think the Mets are the new "Yankees Lite" :D

[Schmidty]

I don't need one of those sites. I have mlive.com.

[JonInMiddleGA]

How do you know anything about how well Notre Dame behave, or what Boston fans are like? Seriously, where do these perceptions come from? How many years have you lived in New England? Did you meet everyone while you were there?

What part of the bit about the ones who people encounter did you miss? Nobody here seems to be claiming we've met 'em all, all we've got are the loud mouthed idiots that we encounter into to go on. Unfortunately, here in the South we have the great misfortune to have more than our fair share of carpetbaggers and while Boston/MA isn't the most frequently encountered (can't swing a dead mobster in Atlanta without hitting someone who escaped from NJ) it's not as though you're on par with unicorns either.

I have certain perceptions about what a backwards, racist place Georgia is, but I can recognize that isn't based on any kind of scientific reality or any personal experience (even if I've met a handful of moron Georgians, which I have). And when Georgia is brought up in a thread, I don't feel the need to share with all Georgians how much of a shithole their state is, and how the people there are slow-witted inbreds. If that happened every time Georgia came up here - you'd get a little tired of it.

Bullshit. You've taken shots at numerous opportunities & unless you're taking them while intoxicated or sleep posting, you damned well know it. You didn't say anything in your example I haven't heard before.

Frankly, you're just adding to the impression at this point, typical northeastern "can't be criticized, everybody else is fair game" attitude.

[JonInMiddleGA]

But, more importantly, shouldn't this thread be about how ESPN sucks ...

What next? A thread about the shape of the Earth?

[molson]

Frankly, you're just adding to the impression at this point, typical northeastern "can't be criticized, everybody else is fair game" attitude.

Wow, that's a new one. "Those damn northeasterners, they respond when you criticize them!". I guess we do that.

I'm sure I've taken shots at people. Usually its in the context of some kind of discussion though, and not just trolling to be a dick.

[panerd]

The irony of some of the Boston people's responses is lost on them.

[molson]

The irony of some of the Boston people's responses is lost on them.

I love the vagueness.

What do you mean?

[RainMaker]

I honestly don't think there is a huge difference in types of fans across the country. I think certain regions take certain sports more serious, but when a team is good or important to a region, most of the vocal fans can come across like douchebags.

I think the Northeast gets a bad rap, but the NBA, NFL and MLB are extremely important to them. They also get the most coverage by networks like ESPN, so it kind of rubs fans the wrong way.

But if you were to go down South, you'd find people who are diehard SEC football fans who are just as big of douchebags about their sport. Years ago I was at a USC-UCLA game and thought those fans were the worst. I've met Lakers fans who I thought were douchebags. Cowboys fans who are dipshits.

I think it's just a matter of what teams are good at the time, getting the media attention, and matter to the people in the region. If the Pats were a .500 team, the Red Sox out of the playoffs, and the Celtics a fringe playoff team, not many of us would consider Boston fans annoying.

[ISiddiqui]

So what's your point then? That not many people in the world hate the Steelers?

I'm just trying to figure out what the hell you're talking about.

That the Steelers have no where near the dislike and hatred that the Cowboys, Patriots, Yankees, Red Sox, Notre Dame, etc. have. Probably as many people hate the Baltimore Ravens.

Hence JIMG's point that success isn't the only reason for the levels of hatred these teams have.

[ISiddiqui]

Really, I think the Mets are the new "Yankees Lite" :D

The Mets have always tried to be :(

Then again, next year they'll probably drop to 4th or 5th as some contracts *cough* Delgado come off the books.

[BishopMVP]

Boston fans aren't responsible for either of those things. And yet we get yelled at for this all the time.Actually, fans kind of are responsible for the MLB revenue disparity. That's why I can rationalize not hating pink-hat wearing bandwagon fans - they're the reason the Red Sox generate more revenue (and can spend more money) than similar sized markets.That the Steelers have no where near the dislike and hatred that the Cowboys, Patriots, Yankees, Red Sox, Notre Dame, etc. have. Probably as many people hate the Baltimore Ravens.

Hence JIMG's point that success isn't the only reason for the levels of hatred these teams have.I don't know how true that statement is, and maybe it's because I have friends and family from Philly - but I personally hate the Steelers more than any other AFC team. The Colts have had their good run, but before Manning got there they were cute and non-threatening and once he's gone I probably won't care about them either. The Raiders fanbase would compete with the Steelers, but they've just been such a joke lately I can't take them seriously.

[gstelmack]

That the Steelers have no where near the dislike and hatred that the Cowboys, Patriots, Yankees, Red Sox, Notre Dame, etc. have. Probably as many people hate the Baltimore Ravens.

Hence JIMG's point that success isn't the only reason for the levels of hatred these teams have.

The Shitzburgh thread that got me primed for this one would disagree with you.

[Alan T]

That the Steelers have no where near the dislike and hatred that the Cowboys, Patriots, Yankees, Red Sox, Notre Dame, etc. have. Probably as many people hate the Baltimore Ravens.

Hence JIMG's point that success isn't the only reason for the levels of hatred these teams have.


This might be a generation thing, but for me growing up in the South, the Steelers were the football version of the Cincinnati Reds. Everyone in the entire region either loved them or hated them passionately. There was very little middle ground. I was probably just a hair behind that as I ended up having to suffer through the 49ers for an entire decade which explains my intense dislike for that team, but I do know that a strong Steelers dislike at least used to be very common, perhaps just behind the Cowboys as the most polarizing team in the NFL.