Survivor Samoa

[Racer]

New season of Survivor starts tomorrow.

20 survivors this time around. Hoping for a final 2 instead of a final 3.

They've been pimping up one of the players,

Russel H.,

as an evil mastermind in the previews so far. I'd like to see the person go far only to get taken out just before the final 2/final 3.

hxxp://www.cbs.com/primetime/survivor/

[Galaril]

I vote Betsy or Shannon go home first from there profiles and photos they fit the MO of first night eliminations from the shows history

[Swaggs]

Looking forward to this.

Love watching Survivor in HD.

[Toddzilla]

Somoa?

[Maple Leafs]

They've been pimping up one of the players,

I guess so. I went to the web site.... do they even have any other contestants besides that guy?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Love watching Survivor in HD.

:+1:

It sometimes makes you wonder how they can make a show in HD in the middle of nowhere, but some professional sports telecasts are still in standard definition.

[Kodos]

Somoa?

Yes, yes! Can we please get a thread title fix to "Samoa"? :p

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Yes, yes! Can we please get a thread title fix to "Samoa"? :p

Hell, I thought we were talking about surviving an appetizer......

Samosa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samosa)

[QuikSand]

Yes, yes! Can we please get a thread title fix to "Samoa"? :p

Absolutely not. It's awesome.

[Lathum]

I wil be watching as usual. I can't wait to see what kind of antics this guy Russel pulls out.

[Toddzilla]

The preview clip is worth watching

In the middle of the night, Russel decides to empty out all of the canteens, depriving everyone of fresh water. Then he starts to burn people's socks in the fire. His voice over says something like "If I can control how they feel, I can control how they act."

I say he lasts 2 episodes, tops.

[Mota]

Not bad for a first episode. This Russell guy already got called out though, so the evil mastermind tactic won't work that well for him. Everybody is already becoming aware of his methods.

That being said, Week 1 ends exactly how he wanted it to, so he is up to a good start.

[Kodos]

Looks like an interesting season so far. Shambo?!

[Alan T]

Looks like an interesting season so far. Shambo?!


She already annoys me after only one episode.

[Kodos]

Where do they find some of these people?

[spleen1015]

Where do they find some of these people?

Audition tapes?

[Kodos]

Survey says: 24!

[Toddzilla]

Russell is a jacktacular fucksnort.

[Sublime 2]

Russell is a jacktacular fucksnort.

And I love it!

[Kodos]

I know we're only one episode in, but it looks like they may be jacking the difficulty level up a bit this season. Can you imagine the torn up skin/splinters that must have some from sliding down those ramps? Ouch.

[johnnyshaka]

Not bad for a first episode. This Russell guy already got called out though, so the evil mastermind tactic won't work that well for him. Everybody is already becoming aware of his methods.

That being said, Week 1 ends exactly how he wanted it to, so he is up to a good start.

He should have shut his piehole at tribal council cause that would've likely bought him a few more weeks.

[LloydLungs]

I don't think Russell's going to last long, but he does bring something unique -- In 19 seasons, I don't recall a player who was already financially set for life who just decided to be a huge jerk and execute a scorched earth strategy against his own tribe, basically for shits and giggles because he doesn't care about the money. Again, don't think he'll last long as a couple of people already sort of have him pegged, but it could be interesting for a few weeks.

[saldana]

the best is going to be the reunion show when all those girls hear him in the first episode calling them dumbasses.

i figure there is absolutely no way he wins...they have done a good job as of late edting the first couple episodes to confuse the guesses.

it would make for the best final tribal council ever if he got that far though.

[gstelmack]

Russell claims that his purpose is to show folks how easy it is to win. Instead what he's going to show them is how easy it is to pull a Stephanie and have your whole tribe gone by the merge...

[Atocep]

Russell claims that his purpose is to show folks how easy it is to win. Instead what he's going to show them is how easy it is to pull a Stephanie and have your whole tribe gone by the merge...

In the 1st episode he stated he wasn't interested in winning. IIRC, he wanted to show how stupid the people are and how easily they can be controlled. I think destroying his tribe would be mission accomplished.

[mauchow]

Already someone sent home due to medical.

Lots has happened this season already... shaping up to be probably one of the bigger drama seasons of Survivor.

[Lorena]

Russell and Ben are the reasons why I try and stay away from reality shows, talk about major, major assholes.

[Raiders Army]

Does anyone really believe that Russell (foa foa) and Ben aren't actors? C'mon, everybody is smarter than that!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Does anyone really believe that Russell (foa foa) and Ben aren't actors? C'mon, everybody is smarter than that!

I think they're much like the young doctor who won Big Brother. They're really that full of themselves. If you've never run into someone like that in real life, consider yourself blessed.

[Lathum]

Russell is losing his grip already, I predict he falls apart at the seems

[molson]

Russell is losing his grip already, I predict he falls apart at the seems

It's interesting that he gave in the group and voted for Ben at the end.

I just caught up on the episodes this morning, but was a little bothered by the winning shot in the basketballish challenge two shows ago. It looked like B-movie editing. We saw the girl shoot, a reaction shot from someone else, then the ball go in. It looked fake. Maybe they didn't have cameras setup to follow the ball, or to use a wide shot, but, why not?

[Lathum]

It's interesting that he gave in the group and voted for Ben at the end.



I think it was actually really smart on his part.

He knew Ben was a goner, but if he votes Ashley the rest of the group knows the second vote was his, which screw him over.

Jaison has Russell pegged and is a really strong competitor. I am looking forward to the inevitable Russell meltdown...

[mauchow]

Russel probably realized that the girls had the vote this week and Jaison wasn't going to be swayed with his vote. I do believe Russell was right though, if they didn't get rid of Ben its even with the girls and that will mean tougher to get your way in tribal council.

They'll eventually win a challenge....right?

[Lathum]

Awesome tribal council tonight

[Swaggs]

I'm still enjoying Survivor after all these years. And, actually rooting for Russell a little bit. :)

[Kodos]

Yeah, I find myself liking Russell too. And that was a great tribal council. Loved watching cocky Ben Affleck talk down to everyone, only to slowly realize that he was going home with each vote revealed.

[Lathum]

Yeah, I find myself liking Russell too. And that was a great tribal council. Loved watching cocky Ben Affleck talk down to everyone, only to slowly realize that he was going home with each vote revealed.

The funny thing was he was cool with the 4 votes, assuming it was all the old tribe, but when he got the 5th vote that was great.

[Kodos]

Yep. Loved the progressive looks of surprise / incredulousness.

[LloydLungs]

19 seasons and I'm still a total sucker for the old:

* cocky player mouthing off at tribal with total confidence of security
* smug expression while receiving votes from opposition alliance
* slow dawning of "oh shit" expression when player gets more votes than the number of players in opposition alliance

Happens once or twice a season and is gold Jerry gold every damn time...

[Alan T]

I'm surprised no one is talking about Russel playing the immunity idol there while Eric didn't. In so many seasons we always say it is crazy to not use the idol if you think there is even a chance of getting blindsided (as we saw with Eric). Here Russell used the idol without having reason to..

I think that was a good play, far better then going home with the idol unplayed. I'm concerned if that is going to mean Russel's play will change now without that confidence of having that behind him or if he might end up on the block himself

[Lathum]

I'm surprised no one is talking about Russel playing the immunity idol there while Eric didn't. In so many seasons we always say it is crazy to not use the idol if you think there is even a chance of getting blindsided (as we saw with Eric). Here Russell used the idol without having reason to..

I think that was a good play, far better then going home with the idol unplayed. I'm concerned if that is going to mean Russel's play will change now without that confidence of having that behind him or if he might end up on the block himself

My wife and I discussed this. We both thought it was a good move since you see so many people go home with an idol. Plus he showed it to a lot of people and may have felt he was in trouble.

[LloydLungs]

I think that was a good play, far better then going home with the idol unplayed.

It was a good play once he blabbed to pretty much everyone that he had the idol. Whether his "I don't even need to be subtle because everyone here is so stupid" strategy was a good one is another story -- though it did seem like he had Laura lined up for the kill before the immunity challenge.

[Kodos]

Not sure why he felt compelled to show everyone his idol.

[Alan T]

Not sure why he felt compelled to show everyone his idol.


I think that wasn't necessarily a bad play if his hope was to gain trust and try to get the other person to trust him perhaps. But the problem was once Laura pretty much indicated enough that she wasn't going play along, he should have realized he needed to change up. He can't then go to someone else and say he hadn't shown it to anyone else since he should expect Laura would talk about it. I think that was a mistake and undermined perhaps any hope he had at getting some people to perhaps side with him.

[Swaggs]

I think he was smart to play it for credibility sake, as well. He can go back to camp now and say he showed it to everyone because he knew he was going to burn it, so he wanted to see how everyone would react to it. That makes him look more like a strategist than desperate.

Despite the "scenes from next week" (which are almost always misleading, anyway), I'm hoping he can make it through next week. I'm guessing he can keep Shambo and the engineer guy together and get rid of one of the girls, as Shambo hates them and the engineer recognizes that they are completely aligned.

[Atocep]

Despite the "scenes from next week" (which are almost always misleading, anyway), I'm hoping he can make it through next week. I'm guessing he can keep Shambo and the engineer guy together and get rid of one of the girls, as Shambo hates them and the engineer recognizes that they are completely aligned.


Same. Russell has become one of my all-time favorite players and I'd love to see him make it into the final 2 just to see how the jury is with him.

Eric, on the other hand, annoyed the hell out me from the beginning. Really glad to see him go out the way he did.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I have never watched Survivor.

I would, however, watch Survivor: Somalia.

[Mota]

It was a good play once he blabbed to pretty much everyone that he had the idol. Whether his "I don't even need to be subtle because everyone here is so stupid" strategy was a good one is another story -- though it did seem like he had Laura lined up for the kill before the immunity challenge.

Yeah there was so much chaos going on right up until the vote, I don't blame him for using it. It's probably the craziest last 5 minutes I've ever seen in Survivor, everybody was swinging from one person to the next and it could easily have been Russell.

It better not be the 90210 chicks going to the end, they're pretty annoying. They actually don't do ANYTHING.

[Ironhead]

Just...awesome. One of the greatest moments in Survivor history.

[Alan T]

Just...awesome. One of the greatest moments in Survivor history.


That was outstanding

[Mota]

I love it. Don't wanna see the 90210 crew come anywhere near winning. Just need that nasty Laura to go next.

[Swaggs]

Wow... Has anyone ever made it to the merge with less airtime than Kelly (the girl who got voted out tonight)? If so, I cannot remember who.

After the first few episodes, who would have thought that most people would be rooting for Russell and someone like Laura would look like the bad guy? Some really interesting characters this season, between those two and Shambo.

[Atocep]

Fantastic episode.

John would have been smart to silently stick with Russell. I think his chances would have been a lot better with the Foa Foa group than with Galu.

Russell wins this if he can get to the final vote, but I'm sure even the Foa Foa people see it so I doubt it'll happen.

Shambo has played smarter than I would have anticipated. She's also a threat to no one so she could one that's carried to the end.

I really have no clue how this season plays out, though. It's as up in the air as I can remember a season being this late in the game. Any one of the 10 remaining could win this.

[Lathum]

I have seen every season of Survivor and that was without a doubt one of the best moments. I loved the looks on all their faces when Russel stood up.

[Kodos]

Agreed with everyone else. GREAT episode. Heck, I even liked Erik's reactions to the blindside. This is turning out to be a real good season.

[Landshark44]

why did they vote out kelly, instead of one of the guys....?

dave would have been my choice...

[Kodos]

Yeah, Dave was more of a strategist. I think they did that because she was close with Laura.

[Atocep]

why did they vote out kelly, instead of one of the guys....?

dave would have been my choice...

I think the point there was to weaken the girl trio that galu has. Dave would have been my 2nd choice, but one of the girls had to go, IMO.

If the Foa Foa group can flip John then my next vote would be Laura, then Dave, then Brett. Monica doesn't do anything so with Laura and Kelly gone I'd just leave her around until she had to go.

[Atocep]

Dola

I also think voting out Dave would have killed whatever slim hope there is of flipping Brett or John.

[Swaggs]

I wish Jeff wouldn't have announced that the idol was going back into play.

Anyway, I think that Shambo will go with the Foa Foa group against Laura or Monica, so that would give Galu a 5-5, at best, next vote. I think Russell might be able to get the Rocket Scientist to come over if he tells him he'll take him to the final 3 with someone (Shambo? Jaison?).

[EagleFan]

I was actually hoping they were going to end up voting someone other than Russell, just to then see his reaction of playing the idol twice without needing to.

At this point I unfortunately have no idea who I want to win. The other Russell was who I was pulling for but then he collapsed. I don't want asshat Russell anywhere near the final two/three (whatever they go with this time around).

I originally had Jayson on the list of who I wouldn't mind seeing win but then he started doing nothing but complaining and feeling sorry for himself.

It should be an entertaining end of the season though.

Oh, as I have wanted to say for several episodes... I don't think "threatening" means what Russell thinks it means...

[molson]

Dola

I also think voting out Dave would have killed whatever slim hope there is of flipping Brett or John.

And Shambo really hates those women - give her the satisfaction of getting rid of who she wants, and she's definitely on your side from now on (if that wasn't a lock already)

I haven't watched Survivor in a while - what happens if they're just locked 5-5 next time, with nobody willing to budge?

[Swaggs]

And Shambo really hates those women - give her the satisfaction of getting rid of who she wants, and she's definitely on your side from now on (if that wasn't a lock already)

I haven't watched Survivor in a while - what happens if they're just locked 5-5 next time, with nobody willing to budge?

In the past, they have usually had a re-vote without the two top vote getters participating and then, if they tie again, they have a challenge to see who can start a fire the fastest.

[Raiders Army]

The producers must've known Russell was going to play the idol. Something was a little fishy there with the way Jeff read the votes. If the producers didn't know that Russell was going to play the idol, a vote or two would've been revealed for Kelly early on...instead, it was built for dramatic impact when Jeff read votes for Russell and then votes for Kelly.

I was also thinking it's diabolical to read the votes that way. #1, the galu tribe was blindsided...and then #2, they didn't know who was going home for them.

[Kodos]

Yeah, they definitely re-order the votes sometimes. Especially in the finale.

[molson]

I'm sure they have the whole editing/filming system down to a science. It would really be an interesting book or something.

How do they create the feel of a show with cameras everywhere, even though we never see a camera? How do they seem to pick up all the important conversations between contestents (are they told to converse only at certain "stations", like "between those two trees", where there's always a camera?) When Russell plays the idol, does someone yell "cut!" and then the votes are immediately re-sorted?

[wade moore]

Yeah, they definitely re-order the votes sometimes. Especially in the finale.

RA's comment was weird to me.

They ALWAYS re-order the votes. The person with the least votes ALWAYS has all of their votes read.

[LloydLungs]

Yeah, Dave was more of a strategist. I think they did that because she was close with Laura.

Dave may be a strategist but his strategy is pathetic. For a guy who's supposed to have one of the highest IQs ever on the show, I'm disappointed at how simplistic his game is. I think somebody called it "J.V. Survivor" a couple episodes ago. His approach to the game was pretty much phased out about 15 seasons ago.

[Thomkal]

well as much as I disliked Russell earlier, he flat out deserves to win after finding two idols without a clue where to look for them. He won't win though, because the first time he goes without finding/winning one, he's out. And his own tribe can't afford to keep him around forever anyway because he easily beats any of them in a final two or three. Loved the reactions on their faces when he played the second idol, especially Dave's. Hope he's gone soon.

have to give Laura credit for winning two immunities in a row, she didn't know at the time that she would have been out otherwise, but still some clutch moments for her. She won't make it till the end either unless her tribe regains control of things.

I'm glad Jeff told them the idol would go back into hiding. The previews for next week are pretty funny with everyone searching for the idol/making sure Russell doesn't find it.

[Atocep]

Dave may be a strategist but his strategy is pathetic. For a guy who's supposed to have one of the highest IQs ever on the show, I'm disappointed at how simplistic his game is. I think somebody called it "J.V. Survivor" a couple episodes ago. His approach to the game was pretty much phased out about 15 seasons ago.

That was John and I agree, but then John fell right back into that group in this episode. As I said above, John would have been smart to stay with Foa Foa. If he sticks with them and just goes ahead and votes for Russell like Shambo then Galu really doesn't know anything, he's able to feed the others info, and he's gaining their trust. At this point if he tried to get back with Foa Foa it'd look like nothing more than him trying to save his ass now that things aren't going as planned.

Dave hasn't really done anything. I'm interested to see what he does from here, but right now he looks like nothing more than a pawn for Laura.

[Kodos]

I was impressed that Shambo actually thought to vote for Russell. Although Russell probably told her to do that.

[Landshark44]

does anyone think it's pssible that russell had some "help" finding the idol.....?

as the shows' most interesting character, it makes sense that they would want to keep him around........

[Kodos]

I doubt they'd do that. If word got out that it did, viewership would take a big hit.

[LloydLungs]

Maybe he didn't have help, but they could be hiding it a little better. I mean, geez. They used to actually bury it 10 paces from a tree or whatever -- somewhere you would at least need a clue. But kudos to Russell for taking the initiative and finding it anyway, especially since I don't think there was explicit word that there even WAS an idol to look for. Nobody else thought to do it, so good for him. Though I still think Natalie might be playing the best pure game of Survivor, even if Russell is dominating at "blindly find the idol."

[Dutch]

No way "Survivor" just gives the idol to somebody. He's just a crafty character.

[Maple Leafs]

I wish they weren't using the same idols each time. Imagine all the fake ones people would be making right now and scattering around.

[EagleFan]

I wish they weren't using the same idols each time. Imagine all the fake ones people would be making right now and scattering around.

That was my exact thought last night. If they weren't using the same idol imagine how funny it would be if someone mde a fake one and Russell found that one, just to see his reaction as Jeff tosses it into the fire would be priceless.

[lcjjdnh]

Two great episodes in a row. Tough not to be rooting for Russell now.

[Glengoyne]

I'm loving this Russell stuff. It just can't last though. He is moving up on my short list of Survivor favorites.

[EagleFan]

Two great episodes in a row. Tough not to be rooting for Russell now.

Pretty easy to not be rooting for him. He's still a jackass no matter what else is going on.

[Swaggs]

Spoiler about next season -- has no effect on this season:

Next season will be Survivor 20 and it is an all-star edition. Russell is reportedly in the cast.

[Raiders Army]

RA's comment was weird to me.

They ALWAYS re-order the votes. The person with the least votes ALWAYS has all of their votes read.

I know they always re-order the votes. What I was saying was that they must've re-ordered twice. The first re-order would've been something like:

Russell-Kelly-Russell-Kelly-Russell-Kelly-Russell-Kelly-Russell-Russell-Russell

The producers either knew for sure he was going to play the idol or they re-ordered after he played the idol because the votes were:

Russell-Russell-Russell-Russell-Russell-Russell-Russell-Kelly-Kelly-Kelly-Kelly

Also, the person with the least votes hasn't ALWAYS had all their votes read.

[Toddzilla]

I know they always re-order the votes. What I was saying was that they must've re-ordered twice. The first re-order would've been something like:

Russell-Kelly-Russell-Kelly-Russell-Kelly-Russell-Kelly-Russell-Russell-Russell

The producers either knew for sure he was going to play the idol or they re-ordered after he played the idol because the votes were:

Russell-Russell-Russell-Russell-Russell-Russell-Russell-Kelly-Kelly-Kelly-Kelly

Also, the person with the least votes hasn't ALWAYS had all their votes read.If you notice, they ALWAYS vote in the order that they are seated - left to right. Last episode, that is the way they sat at tribal. All of Galu was on the left, the Foa Four on the right. So they HAD to have re-arranged the votes - even in this case if it were just to flip them over.

[Maple Leafs]

Crazy thought: maybe they just sort the votes into piles per person and Jeff reads them in whatever order he feels like.

Just saying.

[Jas_lov]

Two great episodes in a row. Tough not to be rooting for Russell now.

He's one of the best players ever. This has been a very entertaining season, mostly because of him and now he has another hidden immunity idol and the numbers. Hopefully Russell lasts deep into the game before the other Foa Foa start trying to get him out because they know they can't beat him in the end.

It was good to see Laura go tonight in yet another great tribal council. Can't really blame John for not wanting to go the stupid rock tiebreaker where it's just a luck of the draw on who goes home.

[EagleFan]

He's one of the best players ever. This has been a very entertaining season, mostly because of him and now he has another hidden immunity idol and the numbers. Hopefully Russell lasts deep into the game before the other Foa Foa start trying to get him out because they know they can't beat him in the end.

It was good to see Laura go tonight in yet another great tribal council. Can't really blame John for not wanting to go the stupid rock tiebreaker where it's just a luck of the draw on who goes home.

Stupid decision by John in my opinion. With Laura gone he loses the numbers game and it's only a matter of time for him. At least with the stones it would be a 50/50 shot that one of the other "team" goes and they keep the numbers game. All he did was buy himself a couple more days as it is obvious the other team is not breaking.

If you want to win you need to take a risk in that situation since one outcome leaves you pretty much no chance of winning and the other outcome gives you a 50% chance of regaining control of the game.

[Swaggs]

Stupid decision by John in my opinion. With Laura gone he loses the numbers game and it's only a matter of time for him. At least with the stones it would be a 50/50 shot that one of the other "team" goes and they keep the numbers game. All he did was buy himself a couple more days as it is obvious the other team is not breaking.

If you want to win you need to take a risk in that situation since one outcome leaves you pretty much no chance of winning and the other outcome gives you a 50% chance of regaining control of the game.

I don't know that I agree with you there. I think it was pretty smart of John to do exactly what he did. If I'm not mistaken, I think Jeff said that the two people that were tied would not have to choose a rock and I would assume Mick (I think that's his name) and his immunity idol, along with Russell who would probably play his if allowed, and you are looking at a 1 in 6 chance to pull the rock.

Also, I think Monica's idea of telling them to vote for John kind of let him know where he stood in the old Galu tribe. As it is now, rather than being 5th or 6th in Galu, whose members have dominated the immunity challenges, he and Shambo can make the move as the tiebreaker with the Foa Foa tribe members, who have been weaker in immunity challenges and have to recognize that Russell needs to go before he gets too close to the end.

[Alan T]

I love this season so far. This has been my favorite season in quite a long time of Survivor.

[Kodos]

Yep. Three straight weeks of awesome. Love Russell.

[LloydLungs]

Stupid decision by John in my opinion. With Laura gone he loses the numbers game and it's only a matter of time for him. At least with the stones it would be a 50/50 shot that one of the other "team" goes and they keep the numbers game. All he did was buy himself a couple more days as it is obvious the other team is not breaking.

I don't think it's a numbers game anymore though, not in the classical sense of tribe vs. tribe. That's outdated Survivor strategy. The Foa Foas haven't broken because they've been behind and haven't really had any choice but to stay together. I think they could break now that they're ahead (counting Shambo). I'll come back and highlight this if I'm wrong, but I think it's highly, highly unlikely this goes so cleanly that they just pick off the rest of the Galus one by one. In modern Survivor, players that let rigid tribal lines guide their post-merge strategy tend to get beat.

[Thomkal]

Also, I think Monica's idea of telling them to vote for John kind of let him know where he stood in the old Galu tribe. As it is now, rather than being 5th or 6th in Galu, whose members have dominated the immunity challenges, he and Shambo can make the move as the tiebreaker with the Foa Foa tribe members, who have been weaker in immunity challenges and have to recognize that Russell needs to go before he gets too close to the end.

This was the stupid idea of the show-not the idea itself really, but telling John about it. It gave him all the incentive he needed to foil that idea and kick Laura out. And the looks on her and Dave's face when he went and did that was priceless. Those two really are idiots in this game. If I were a Foa Foa I might want to take on of them to the end just to point out what idiots they were. :)

[Kodos]

Every tribal council, Dave gets that surprised/stupid look on his face. Last night with the audible "Wow!".

[SnDvls]

Stupid decision by John in my opinion. With Laura gone he loses the numbers game and it's only a matter of time for him. At least with the stones it would be a 50/50 shot that one of the other "team" goes and they keep the numbers game. All he did was buy himself a couple more days as it is obvious the other team is not breaking.

If you want to win you need to take a risk in that situation since one outcome leaves you pretty much no chance of winning and the other outcome gives you a 50% chance of regaining control of the game.

I have to disagree too. At some point the people with Russell have to figure out where they are in the pecking order and will turn on him too. John & Shambo would be #5 & #6 with either group so they just need to get #4 and one more and the game flips again. I hope Russell wins, but I think the other's will figure out in due time that they need to blindside him soon or he's going to runaway with the game.

[Swaggs]

I'm surprised by Dave, as well. I thought he was just playing dumb in the first several episodes, but I don't think it is an act. John's analysis during one of his one-on-ones with the camera was pretty spot on, as far as I'm concerned. Galu had the physical/challenge advantage, but they seem to be idiots when it comes to the strategic portions of the game. I can't see any of the four that voted for Natalie coming close to winning (I'll probably be wrong). Russell, Mick, Natalie, and John seem like the only ones that I can see winning.

[Alan T]

I'm surprised by Dave, as well. I thought he was just playing dumb in the first several episodes, but I don't think it is an act. John's analysis during one of his one-on-ones with the camera was pretty spot on, as far as I'm concerned. Galu had the physical/challenge advantage, but they seem to be idiots when it comes to the strategic portions of the game. I can't see any of the four that voted for Natalie coming close to winning (I'll probably be wrong). Russell, Mick, Natalie, and John seem like the only ones that I can see winning.


Something to think about is going to be the makeup of the jury will be primarily very heavy former Galu members no matter what the final 2 (or 3) end up being. There are a few from the former Galu tribe that likely aren't fond of their former tribe members (Eric, Shambo, John), but that still leaves a pretty large voting block for someone like Dave or Monica if they do make it to the final possibly.

I'm wondering how this ends up playing out but I think Shambo and John need to really make sure to team up and try to work down both of the other groups so they don't end up the odd men out at some point.

[LloydLungs]

I have to disagree too. At some point the people with Russell have to figure out where they are in the pecking order and will turn on him too. John & Shambo would be #5 & #6 with either group so they just need to get #4 and one more and the game flips again.

Any dominant alliance of more than four people is ripe to be picked clean of its stragglers. Survivor has matured to the point where even average strategic players can suss out the weak links in a big alliance.

Of course, it's true that, if any alliance is going to meekly die out one-by-one in Survivor 19, it might be this former Galu group, which seems to be getting its strategic leadership from Dave -- one of the most disappointing players in awhile on this show. Dave's simplistic vision of Survivor might merely involve moping and waiting to get picked off from here on out.

[Racer]

I think it's hard to say whether John made the right decision without knowing two things:

1. Where did John stand in his current alliance? The Galu alliance, had it stuck together, only had a 3/7th chance or about a 43% chance of winning the tiebraker. I'd probably take those odds if I was in good with my alliance, but if I was 5th or 6th, then no.

2. Did John talk with the other Foa Foas to see how they feel about getting rid of Russell after a couple more tribal councils? Natalie, Jaison, and Mick all should realize they probably aren't going to win a jury vote against Russell. Just because it wasn't shown doesn't mean John didn't discuss this. If he didn't, then I don't think he should have made the move.

Monica's plan reminds me a bit of Cirie's plan from Fans vs. Favorites when Cirie successfully got Erik to give up immunity. It could have worked, but only against a naive opponent. No way it was going to work against Russell. Also, she should have thrown out someone who was comfortable with their name be in the line of fire such as possibly Dave. Implementing it before consulting John first does nothing but decrease trust.

[Atocep]

I think it's hard to say whether John made the right decision without knowing two things:

1. Where did John stand in his current alliance? The Galu alliance, had it stuck together, only had a 3/7th chance or about a 43% chance of winning the tiebraker. I'd probably take those odds if I was in good with my alliance, but if I was 5th or 6th, then no.

I think it's clear he was no better than 4th in the Galu Alliance. Dave, Laura, and Monica seemed very tight. I have no idea where Brett sits because he really hasn't had any camera time this season. Had they stuck together then I think he falls behind Kelly and possibly Erik as well.

I think John made the best decision for him right now, however, if he jumps to Foa Foa when he originally thought about it 2 episodes ago then he'd be in much better shape to go deep in the game. Outside of Shambo, everyone at Galu has played the game so conservatively since the merge that they're going to have a hard time winning if they do make it to the end because none of them have really done anything that stands out.


Monica's plan reminds me a bit of Cirie's plan from Fans vs. Favorites when Cirie successfully got Erik to give up immunity. It could have worked, but only against a naive opponent. No way it was going to work against Russell. Also, she should have thrown out someone who was comfortable with their name be in the line of fire such as possibly Dave. Implementing it before consulting John first does nothing but decrease trust.

I don't think words can describe how stupid that was. They should have discussed the possibility as a group and then waited to see if someone would volunteer to have their name put down. As you said, tossing John's name out there without talking to him about it first sealed Laura's fate last night.


As for Russell, it's easy for us to sit and claim Russell clearly wins if he makes it to the final vote, but I'm not sure the other players see it that way. We know the person that should win doesn't always win and the jury votes can be unpredictable. On top of that, Russell has been seen as a "snake" since the merger. That's been a turnoff for some jury members in the past.

[Atocep]

Btw, this is the best 3 episode stretch I can recall.

Russel is probably one of the top 5 players ever on the show.

Natalie has been the biggest surprise as a player I can remember.

All in all, a fantastic season.

[Glengoyne]

This season has me not writing off Survivor. Really good stuff. Russell running away from Dave, losing him, and then going right back to where the two of them were standing to pick up the idol...was great.

If I were Russell, I'd have spent the next day and a half searching for the damn Idol, while it stayed hidden in my pocket. Of course it looks like his time may have been better spent getting rid of Laura.

Great season so far, and the Jury reactions are wonderful so far. I'm actually looking forward to next week.

[Toddzilla]

I'm just glad they got some gratuitous shots of Laura's fantastic boobs before she was voted off...

[mauchow]

In Ponderosa last week, Erik was really trying hard to get with Kelli.

So when Laura gets voted out and goes to Ponderosa, they're sitting at the table eating Kelli starts talking and says to Laura, "You can stay in my room with me since there are two beds!" Erik just throws his head down in complete disappointment. lol, horny bastard, and rightfully so.

[Dutch]

Not as great as last week, but yes, still in the 'great' category. Russell is now my favorite Survivor ever. He's outwitting and outplaying like no other. He's almost making the immunity challenges irrelevant.

I think his chances now are probably around 40-50%....which is not bad, but still lots of room for him to get blindsided.

Hell, he probably won't get blindsided, they are all too stupid for that, he'll have to know he's going home before the vote....so he needs to keep getting immunity idols.

[Atocep]

Slow episode last night. John was the right call, though. Outside of Russell he's the only guy that was really even attempting to play the game. The remaining Galu members don't have a plan at all. Dave is absolutely clueless on how to play Survivor.

Anyone else love Dave's wink to the jury as if he'd pulled off something there by John going home?

[EagleFan]

That tribe has got to be the dumbest tribe ever. Once it was revealed that Shambo wanted Dave out; Dave should have played along with the John vote idea and then got his 4 tribe members to voted with John. It would have forced a 4-4-1 tie and a revote with Shambo being pissed off that she wasn't let in on what was happening and she is very prone to voting base on her emotions.

[Lathum]

I think Russell made his first big mistake not bringing Shambo into the loop. He had her in his pocket and now she doesn't trust him.

[tyketime]

I think Russell made his first big mistake not bringing Shambo into the loop. He had her in his pocket and now she doesn't trust him.

:+1:

[EagleFan]

How's not going to the stones looking for John now? lololololol... idiot

[Swaggs]

Agreed on Russell's decision.

He should have gone w/ Dave this week and John or someone else on Gau next. That seemed like a pretty chaotic move.

[saldana]

I think Russell made his first big mistake not bringing Shambo into the loop. He had her in his pocket and now she doesn't trust him.
plus he flat out lied to John...does he not realize he needs to win by vote of the people he is screwing over? especially if you think about the fact that people like mick and jaison are well liked by everyone.

[Atocep]

plus he flat out lied to John...does he not realize he needs to win by vote of the people he is screwing over? especially if you think about the fact that people like mick and jaison are well liked by everyone.

I don't think you can predict the jury either way. Some people vote for people who do that stuff and some hold grudges. On the ponderosa episodes John wasn't bitter at all. Annoying an arrogant, but not bitter.

I think John going home was the right call and I think Russell has a good enough relationship with Shambo that he can still easily salvage things. It would have been smart to make up some story about John scrambling to get him (Russell) voted out or something along those lines and get her on board with voting John out while promising Dave is next, but I don't think it's something that can't be fixed. He's the only person she really seems to talk to and I think even she's smart enough to realize she's not going to win with no allies.

Dave is no threat to anyone. He has no plan, 2 allies, and showed last episode he'll do whatever he's told just to stay in the game.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

plus he flat out lied to John...does he not realize he needs to win by vote of the people he is screwing over? especially if you think about the fact that people like mick and jaison are well liked by everyone.

1. You have to get to the final 2 before you worry about who votes for you. If you start trying to please your tribe mates just because you want them to vote for you, you'll end up getting blindsided and finding yourself in the position of voter rather than final 2.

2. There's been numerous situations where the less likable person was the one that received votes solely based on gameplay. Some were in Survivor along with other similar shows. Being the nice guy doesn't necessarily win the game or the votes.

[Thomkal]

<----shakes his head at the idiots for not voting Russell off. So what if he plays the idol, at least he's rid of it then. He's just going to get more and more paranoid as the game goes on.

Glad Dave is gone, what an idiot. At least Monica tried to save herself and it nearly worked.

[Jas_lov]

I liked Russell's decision to get rid of Shambo. She was no threat to win anything as he said, but Brett could be because of how dumb Galu is. There are members of Galu who won't say Russell and Foa Foa got the best of us so here's the money. They'll vote for Brett just because he's Galu. On the other hand, there is no way Russell doesn't beat Mick, Jaison, and Natalie in a final vote when Russell has been running the show since day 1.

So now Russell has Mick to help eliminate Brett and Russell will be safe another week unless Brett wins the next immunity, then he might be in trouble if Jaison joins with Mick and Brett to oust Russell. Once it gets to the F4, it will be 2-2 tie at worst for Russell with Natalie's vote if he doesn't win immunity.

[Jas_lov]

Erik is stupid. How to you come to Survivor and not expect to get lied to? Natalie is completely undeserving. Russell dominated the game and even Shambo knows it.

[mauchow]

Insane ending....

Russell is an idiot for talking himself up so much. Be humble. Oh, well, I guess since you're already a millionaire I don't care all that much with you losing.

It will be funny watching you get voted out first in the All Stars Survivor in the spring.

[EagleFan]

Insane season, glad the asshole didn't win.

[Racer]

Thought Natalie actually played an excellent game. Foa Foa coming back would not have been possible if she hadn't gotten the girls on the other team to turn against Erik. The editing also showed her make social connections with the other players.

Russell played a damn good game. However, from what I can tell he is an egomaniac and I'm guessing he rubbed a lot of the other castaways the wrong way out there. I bet he probably would have won the million if he had stayed somewhat humble.

[Thomkal]

shocked Russell didn't win based on who he brought with him to the Final 3. Don't get me wrong I'm glad he lost and Jeff rubbed it in that he lost to one of his "dumb bimbo's", but man how do you not reward Russell for the kind of things he pulled off in this game right down to outlasting Brett in the Final Immunity? I think Natalie should have taken that $100,000 he won from the fans in return for the "Sole Survivor" title, LOL.

[tyketime]

It has certainly sparked some debate in the Tykes household. If Russell had been able to scale it back some, he may very well have won. But of course, anything less than 100% would not have been true to who he really is. You only have to see how upset he truly was on the Reunion Show to know how big his ego really was/is.

One of the things I love about Survivor is that there is no clearcut path to victory. Every season is different, and the ones who figure it out the quickest are the ones to survive the longest.

[EagleFan]

shocked Russell didn't win based on who he brought with him to the Final 3. Don't get me wrong I'm glad he lost and Jeff rubbed it in that he lost to one of his "dumb bimbo's", but man how do you not reward Russell for the kind of things he pulled off in this game right down to outlasting Brett in the Final Immunity? I think Natalie should have taken that $100,000 he won from the fans in return for the "Sole Survivor" title, LOL.

It wasn't 100,000 that he offered, he offered 10,000. Jeff is the one that said 100,000 later when he brought it back up. I think he was confused with the Sprint thing.

[EagleFan]

Looking forward to the all-star show. Should be interesting.

Has there been a list of players leaked out yet?

[Racer]

Looking forward to the all-star show. Should be interesting.

Has there been a list of players leaked out yet?

This is the list I've seen


Colby (Australia/All-Stars)
Jerri (Australia/All-Stars)
Rob (Marquesas/All-Stars)
Rupert (Pearl Islands/All-Stars)
Sandra (Pearl Islands)
Tom (Palau)
Stephenie (Palau/Guatemala)
Danielle (Panama)
Cirie (Panama/Micronesia)
Candice (Cook Islands)
Parvati (Cook Islands/Micronesia)
Courtney (China)
Amanda (China/Micronesia)
James ( China/Micronesia)
Sugar (Gabon)
Randy (Gabon)
Tyson (Tocantis)
J.T. (Tocantis)
Coach (Tocantis)
Russell H (Samoa)


Not sure if it's 100% accurate although I'm guessing there is a list out there that is because I've read that the season has been pretty heavily spoiled.

[Mota]

One of the things I love about Survivor is that there is no clearcut path to victory. Every season is different, and the ones who figure it out the quickest are the ones to survive the longest.

Unfortunately one of the things about Survivor is that the winner rarely is the best player in the game. There's no way that Natalie deserved this more than Russell, he just happened to be caught by a gang of jurors who were bitter and jealous. I think their votes were revenge votes and not for the best player, which is kinda sad.

That being said Natalie was a key player in Russell's plan, she did play a good social game and a lot of the stuff she uncovered got used by Russell to get them further. Do I believe should could have gotten there without Russell? No. But could Russell have gotten there without her? Absolutely. That's why I think he should have won.

[Kodos]

One the one hand, I love the competitor in Russell. I admire anyone who plays that hard. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure he is not someone I would care for if we met in real life. So I'm not that disappointed that he lost. He could probably benefit from being taken down a notch.

[EagleFan]

Unfortunately one of the things about Survivor is that the winner rarely is the best player in the game. There's no way that Natalie deserved this more than Russell, he just happened to be caught by a gang of jurors who were bitter and jealous. I think their votes were revenge votes and not for the best player, which is kinda sad.

That being said Natalie was a key player in Russell's plan, she did play a good social game and a lot of the stuff she uncovered got used by Russell to get them further. Do I believe should could have gotten there without Russell? No. But could Russell have gotten there without her? Absolutely. That's why I think he should have won.

That's the thing though, there is no true "played a better game". There are so many aspects of the game who can argue what truly is a "better game".

[EagleFan]

If that list is right I would say the teams would be...


Colby (Australia/All-Stars) - hero
Jerri (Australia/All-Stars) - villain
Rob (Marquesas/All-Stars) - villain
Rupert (Pearl Islands/All-Stars) - hero
Sandra (Pearl Islands) - hero (?)
Tom (Palau) - hero (if this is the Tom I am thinking of)
Stephenie (Palau/Guatemala) - hero (?)
Danielle (Panama) - I don't remember her
Cirie (Panama/Micronesia) - hero
Candice (Cook Islands) - villain
Parvati (Cook Islands/Micronesia) - villain
Courtney (China) - ???
Amanda (China/Micronesia) - ???
James ( China/Micronesia) - hero
Sugar (Gabon) - hero (?)
Randy (Gabon) - I can't remember him
Tyson (Tocantis) - villain (if I remember correctly)
J.T. (Tocantis) - hero (if I remember correctly, unless I am thinking of someone else)
Coach (Tocantis) - villain
Russell H (Samoa) - villain

[Swaggs]

I enjoyed this season of Survivor, but was legitimately surprised that Russell did not win. I haven't watched any episodes of Ponderosa from this season, yet, but I'll have to check them out to see if the jury members from Galu were super vindictive (as they seemed to be in the jury, to my surprise) or if they actually thought that Natalie was the best player.

[Glengoyne]

I forgot the damn episode was tonight.

Too damn bad Russell didn't win. He was the best. He deserved it.

Did his income play a big role? I figured that might be the biggest mistake he made.

Then the two blindsides with John and Shambo...likely cost him two key votes, but most importantly opened him up to jurors that would blast him as a dishonorable liar. That might be what turns a couple of people on the fence into a would be runner up's camp. It is probably sub 50% where the victims of such betrayals consider it good play. I think late betrayals are the hardest, because so little time has passed between them and the "vote".

So did the money and the big betrayals to John and Shambo cost him?

[bhlloy]

Shambo voted for Russell. He didn't lose her vote, whether it affected the jury or not is another matter.

He was certainly a great player but he didn't play the final tribal council at all well IMO. Suggesting to Brett that he would take him to the final because he wanted to go up against the stronger player, bringing it up at the council and then voting him off anyway just made him look really bad.

And it's always a risk - if you lie and break enough promises in the late game chances are you going to get to the final but the jury is going to hate you. I don't think it's a big surprise here that he didn't win. Part of being a great player is keeping enough good will in the jury that you actually have a shot at winning the game.

[bhlloy]

DOLA - really think he could have turned the Brett thing into a positive final impression. Along the lines of "you are a great kid and I would love to take you to the final with me, but I have to stay loyal to my alliance and the people that have been with me throughout the game". Instead he basically lies to him with no reason to at all.

[LloydLungs]

Thought Natalie actually played an excellent game. Foa Foa coming back would not have been possible if she hadn't gotten the girls on the other team to turn against Erik. The editing also showed her make social connections with the other players.

Yes. Underrated, an excellent player, and I thought a deserving winner. Russell has a GREAT mind for Survivor *strategy*, better than Natalie or anyone else on this season, but in rating him as an overall Survivor PLAYER? Well, being over-the-top arrogant and not even trying to hide your disdain for the other players, especially the jury, factors in to what kind of player you are -- it's not all about chess piece nuts-and-bolts strategy. I've hated a lot of Survivor juries for being way too vindictive and petty and bitter, but I think at some point you do have to be penalized for COMPLETELY blowing off the "win the jury over" angle.

Russell made the season incredibly entertaining. I have no idea how he is in real life, but his demeanor at the reunion show was classic "bully who just got punched back."

EDIT: I would add, though, that Natalie's jury performance was lousy. When a juror who appears to be losing his grip on sanity makes a better case for you than you do, you didn't do a good job with it.

I don't think it's a numbers game anymore though, not in the classical sense of tribe vs. tribe. That's outdated Survivor strategy. The Foa Foas haven't broken because they've been behind and haven't really had any choice but to stay together. I think they could break now that they're ahead (counting Shambo). I'll come back and highlight this if I'm wrong, but I think it's highly, highly unlikely this goes so cleanly that they just pick off the rest of the Galus one by one. In modern Survivor, players that let rigid tribal lines guide their post-merge strategy tend to get beat.

And now to highlight my own dumbassness from after the Laura boot. I'm really surprised it went down exactly how I said it wouldn't. This turned out to be the most tribe-loyal season in a LONNNG time.

[Atocep]

Natalie played a very good game. Russell should have won. There is not a logical answer for voting Natalie over Russell.

[Thomkal]

It wasn't 100,000 that he offered, he offered 10,000. Jeff is the one that said 100,000 later when he brought it back up. I think he was confused with the Sprint thing.

Jeff talked over them at the point he was talking about it again, and I think Russell might have offered $100,000 then. I think he knew he was going to win the fan's vote. And how pathetic was that that he tried to buy the title.

[saldana]

i actually think russell should have won in a landslide, except he was arrogant instead of honest at the jury....he should have been slamming home the fact that he came there to outwit and outplay them all, and part of that is lying...he said it once, but he should have been saying it over and over and over again.


i really hope that isnt the actual list for next season...there are too many people that were already winners and too many people that were already on other all star seasons

[tyketime]

i really hope that isnt the actual list for next season...there are too many people that were already winners and too many people that were already on other all star seasons

Yeah. I already have mixed feelings about so-called "all star" casting for reality shows. What makes Survivor great is having unknowns thrown together and watching them figure it out. When they've done the all-stars before, you are now dealing with a whole different level - and not one I am necessarily interested in. Besides... what does it say about a person who is going to be on this show now for the 3rd time? No life?

[Kodos]

I think Russell forgot that you have to remain at least a little bit likable to the jury. Telling people how much better you are to their face isn't a good way to motivate people to vote for you.

[Raiders Army]

What got Russell and Foa Foa to the finals cost him the win. The Galu tribe was stupid and didn't realize they were playing a game. That's why the Foa Foas were able to pick them off. Even at the final jury, they didn't realize they were playing a game and that's why Natalie won. What a shame.

Anyhow, I'm not too thrilled with the Heroes vs. Villains season. The "Heroes" have lied in the game probably just as much as the "Villains", just not as well. :)

[Raiders Army]

dola, I'd rather have a Celebrity Survivor than another All-Stars. Just don't make it into the Apprentice where every season is Celebrity.

[mauchow]

Maybe Natalie deserves more credit than is given in regards to taking russell to the Top 3.

Imagine a scenario with Jaison/Natalie/Mick. Who is deserving among those three ? The jury would have split their votes even more.

I was laughing my ass off at why Jaison, Mick, Natalie didn't try getting rid of Russell when they had a chance, but it seems obvious now, because Russ wasn't going to get any votes for being such an ass to everyone.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

dola, I'd rather have a Celebrity Survivor than another All-Stars. Just don't make it into the Apprentice where every season is Celebrity.

Celebrity Survivor would never work unless they could actually win the money. There's too much incentive to quit if you're not fully invested in the situation when you're starving, bug-eaten, and smell like a homeless bum on a LA street.

[LloydLungs]

I think Russell forgot that you have to remain at least a little bit likable to the jury. Telling people how much better you are to their face isn't a good way to motivate people to vote for you.

Especially if they know you're already rich. I definitely don't believe in picking the winner based on need, but if that knowledge is out there you REALLY need to make sure they have as many reasons as possible to want to hand you ANOTHER million. He was totally brazen and dismissive of that aspect. Not even so much for the jury performance -- more for stuff like smugly keeping the hidden immunity idol for a "souvenir" the last time it could be played. There's NO reason to do that other than to show off.

You usually have to lie and backstab to win Survivor and I love that, and I love it on the rare occasions when players OWN their games. But Russell made a lot of *unnecessary* arrogant moves like the above, where he was basically toying with the other players like a cat killing a mouse. In Survivor, there are consequences for behaving like that. He either didn't know that or didn't care. Either way, it makes him less of a great player.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

You usually have to lie and backstab to win Survivor and I love that, and I love it on the rare occasions when players OWN their games. But Russell made a lot of *unnecessary* arrogant moves like the above, where he was basically toying with the other players like a cat killing a mouse. In Survivor, there are consequences for behaving like that. He either didn't know that or didn't care. Either way, it makes him less of a great player.

I'm not sure it made him less of a great player. It just made him 2nd best in the final vote tally. He still abused and used 19 other people at will, whether they wanted to admit it or not with their votes.

[Racer]

i actually think russell should have won in a landslide, except he was arrogant instead of honest at the jury....he should have been slamming home the fact that he came there to outwit and outplay them all, and part of that is lying...he said it once, but he should have been saying it over and over and over again.


i really hope that isnt the actual list for next season...there are too many people that were already winners and too many people that were already on other all star seasons

I'm not to excited about who's on the list either. In particular,

There are a lot of people from recent seasons (Sugar, Randy, Tyson, and Coach (although he was a big character) that weren't particularly impressive strategically.

Considering the number of winners on the list, I would have liked to see Todd get to play since he was fairly entertaining, strong strategically, and might have had the best tribal council performance ever.

[LloydLungs]

It doesn't make him less of a game theory strategist, but sure it makes him less of a great player. If you want to win Survivor the way Russell played, you either have to work at cultivating at least a little bit of a "lovable scamp" persona (see Chris from Vanuatu or, even better, Todd from China) or you have to correctly read that the jury will value great strategy over the fact that you're an asshole (maybe Micronesia jury with Parvati?). If you fail on both of those counts, then you didn't get the job done.

This is somewhat similar to Boston Rob losing to Amber, though in that case the jury really did screw up because a lot of them thought Amber was just using the whole romance thing as a strategy. Natalie was a better player than Amber.

[Solecismic]

Why all the Russell love?

There is only one "strategy" in Survivor: don't do something that gets you voted off this week.

Russell repeatedly made himself a target. Early on, he managed to avoid getting voted off because he was a semi-decent athlete and the tribe, frustrated with losing, kept voting off women.

After the merge, he at first rode Natalie's coat-tails. She was the one who aligned the girls to see that they could "afford" to vote out Eric. Otherwise, he might well have been the second or third person on the jury. That was the big move of the game - the only truly big move.

His one good move was taking advantage of Laura's Galu-busting strategy of alienating Shambo. After Galu was in the minority, everyone stuck with him because they realized taking an unlikeable jerk to the final meant more votes. Even better when he made it so easy - play homage to him, and he'll ignore strategy and take you along with him.

Natalie was very likable. And Russell kept her over Jaison because she fed his ego. If he were even semi-decent when it came to strategy, he would have taken Shambo and Jaison with him, as they wouldn't have won many votes. I get the feeling Jaison rubbed Galu the wrong way, and we didn't see a lot of that.

Sometimes, people as bad at strategy as Russell make the finals. They don't win, though. If you want to go Russell's manipulation/control route and win, you need to be more subtle and less sentimental, like that porn-star guy who won a few years ago.

Natalie was the best strategy player this year. By far. It's not even close.

[LloydLungs]

Sometimes, people as bad at strategy as Russell make the finals. They don't win, though. If you want to go Russell's manipulation/control route and win, you need to be more subtle and less sentimental, like that porn-star guy who won a few years ago.

I don't think Russell was a BAD strategist, but he is overrated. Not only was the brazen arrogance a problem with the jury, but it also led to some sloppy mistakes earlier in the game (like blabbing about his money, which hurt him later, and blabbing to too many people about having the hidden idol, which would have hurt him had he not been on a season with so many strategic weaklings). Russell was like a really talented team that was poorly coached.


We're going to see how he does playing with a lot of strategic-minded players next season, but judging from his finale and post-finale demeanor, surely he's a fairly early S20 boot. If he could fake this depth of depression then he would have been able to manipulate S19's jury better.

[Alan T]

Russell's strategy wasn't great, his work ethic was though in the sense that he was always playing the game. He didn't seem to mentally check out ever. I don't know why others haven't done something similar in the past, but if a million dollars is on the line, why wouldn't you spend a large amount of time looking for a hidden idol like Russell did?

I guess what I fail to understand fully is: Was Russell amazingly gifted in finding idols, or was he simply the only one (both this season and in past seasons) that dedicated enough time looking for one?

His people skills and how he was trying to push buttons ended up hurting him, and thus his "strategy" was flawed because of that.

[Atocep]

Why all the Russell love?

There is only one "strategy" in Survivor: don't do something that gets you voted off this week.

Russell repeatedly made himself a target. Early on, he managed to avoid getting voted off because he was a semi-decent athlete and the tribe, frustrated with losing, kept voting off women.

From the start Russell controlled his tribe. He made the decisions and got everyone else on board with voting out the person he saw as his biggest threat at each tribal council. They kept voting out women because that is who Russell wanted voted out. Everyone on Foa Foa that saw him as a target went home.


After the merge, he at first rode Natalie's coat-tails. She was the one who aligned the girls to see that they could "afford" to vote out Eric. Otherwise, he might well have been the second or third person on the jury. That was the big move of the game - the only truly big move.

This was Natalie's big move and it was a game changing move. It's hard to describe that as riding coat-tails when it was one episode and one move, though.


His one good move was taking advantage of Laura's Galu-busting strategy of alienating Shambo. After Galu was in the minority, everyone stuck with him because they realized taking an unlikeable jerk to the final meant more votes. Even better when he made it so easy - play homage to him, and he'll ignore strategy and take you along with him.

Lets not forget the fact that he pulled John in to get Laura out. It's really the same situation as with Erik, if that doesn't happen then Foa Foa is likely in a position where they just get picked off by one from there on out. He also recognized that John was his biggest threat after that vote, went against Shambo to vote him out, and then pulled her back in with no problems.

Everyone was saying how they didn't think they could beat Russell in the finals. It's what Mick said, it's what Natalie said, it's what Jaison said. Natalie said she was going to roll over and give it to him, but all 3 of the other Foa Foa people expressed their doubts on their ability to beat Russell.

Natalie was very likable. And Russell kept her over Jaison because she fed his ego. If he were even semi-decent when it came to strategy, he would have taken Shambo and Jaison with him, as they wouldn't have won many votes. I get the feeling Jaison rubbed Galu the wrong way, and we didn't see a lot of that.

Sometimes, people as bad at strategy as Russell make the finals. They don't win, though. If you want to go Russell's manipulation/control route and win, you need to be more subtle and less sentimental, like that porn-star guy who won a few years ago.

Natalie was the best strategy player this year. By far. It's not even close.

Natalie won the game by making one move and riding a stronger player's coat-tails. This was a situation very similar to the Rob-Amber season in that there was a strong player who controlled every aspect of the game and someone with them that more or less did what they were told throughout the season and got to the finals only because of that stronger player. If Natalie doesn't align with Russell she would not have made it far in the game. Even in the last episode she had to turn to Russell to save her.

Natalie was a big surprise this season. She showed that she belonged there and she was actually a threat in challenges. She did nothing new, though. We've seen her strategy used in the past and it still frustrates me to see her strategy get rewarded in the end because of simple bitterness.

We're in season 19 and most of us had probably assumed we had seen just about every way survivor could possibly be played at this point. Russell showed us something completely different that no one really thought was going to work. People in this thread expected him gone in episode 2 or episode 4 at the latest. He did what he said was going to do from the beginning; he controlled his tribe and got to the finals. Along the way he found 3 idols with a combined 1 clue and Jeff more or less admitted they're going to have to change idols in the future because of him. He was one of the few people that actually played an idol correctly and despite the target on his back he didn't even need to use the other 2.

Interestingly enough, with being the perceived target throughout the season he had his name written down 9 times. Natalie had her's written down 8. I think both played strong games given their position, but I'll reward the person who stepped up, took the heat, and did the work every time.

[Scarecrow]

I read elsewhere the same lists under the spoiler tags except that it's not Danielle but Dani Boatwright, the winner of Survivor: Guatamala

[mauchow]

In an article somewhere on the 'net Russell said he spoke with everyone after the reunion show last night and they all told him they made a mistake with their votes... dunno if I believe Russell at all but I wouldn't be surprised. Russell dominated every phase of that game. His social game was better than people think

[Mota]

It goes to show what the fans thought of Natalie's game that she wasn't even in the top 3 for voting. It's also my greatest frustration with Survivor, in that the rules of the game favor the underdogs who do little in the game. You're punished for making bold moves, therefore creating the incredibly successful (but even more incredibly boring) strategy of doing nothing for fear of pissing someone off.

Moreso than any other reality TV show, the best player rarely wins Survivor.

[EagleFan]

Best survivor player of all time.

Boston Rob or Russell ?

Neither, Rich from season one. He had no previous show to watch to even try to come up with a plan and dominated that season. Plus in the all-star survivor he showed that he knows it's just a game and didn't act like a whiney bitch when he was blind sided.

[molson]

I've only watched seasons 1, 2, 18, and 19, but it seems pretty clear you have to do two things to win this came: Last until the end, and get people to vote for you. You have to do both, one isn't enough. Both Russell and Natalie were very good, in two very different ways, at the former. And Natalie was way better than Russell in the latter. Game over.

[Racer]

Best survivor player of all time.

Boston Rob or Russell ?

I'd also go with neither. Tom, Yul, J.T. and to a lesser Parvati, Earl, Rich, and Todd managed to dominate the game strategically without rubbing to many people the wrong way like Rob and Russell did.

[Swaggs]

I'd agree with the mention of Tom. He was physically dominating, likeable, and a frontrunner, the entire season, who won (which is pretty damn hard to do).

I'd add Brian from Thailand (the car salesman) as an under the radar dominant player, as he pretty much ran the table during his season, but gets forgotten because it was a pretty unremarkable season and he hasn't made a career out of being on Survivor.

I'd throw J.T. in there, too. He was a physical threat, likeable, and made a really tight alliance that held together to allow him to win.

I guess I give a little more credit to folks that seem like they should win, from the get go, and then go on to actually win. There are a lot of players like that (Ozzy, Colby, Boston Rob, Stephenie, Rupert, all the young, athletic, good looking doctors that they seem to put on every season, etc.), but most of the end up not winning in the end.

[Maple Leafs]

Not sure if it's been mentioned (haven't read the spoiler posts), but I think All-Stars has already been filmed. It probably started before this season began to air.

That means Russel would be a complete wildcard, since nobody would know who he was or how he had played. (Same thing happened last all-stars with James and somebody else.)

That said, on the live reunion he didn't look like a guy who had just come home from a successful second tour of duty.

[chrisj]

Insane ending....

Russell is an idiot for talking himself up so much. Be humble. Oh, well, I guess since you're already a millionaire I don't care all that much with you losing.

It will be funny watching you get voted out first in the All Stars Survivor in the spring.


Word on the street is he makes final 3 - again. But who knows how reliable some of those spoilers are.

Apparently, he plays the exact same game as he did on S19 with his "dumb girl alliance" (since at the time of taping, no one knew his strategy).

[Mota]

I've only watched seasons 1, 2, 18, and 19, but it seems pretty clear you have to do two things to win this came: Last until the end, and get people to vote for you. You have to do both, one isn't enough. Both Russell and Natalie were very good, in two very different ways, at the former. And Natalie was way better than Russell in the latter. Game over.

I didn't see Natalie winning the final immunity which kept the "guaranteed winner" Brett out of the final 3. She also didn't convince John to flip his vote. She didn't have Shambo's loyalty which they needed so badly to flip the game. She didn't win about 4,000 immunity idols of which one of them was a pivotal turnaround in the season. I'd say about 80% of the credit for getting to the final 3 would belong to Russell for the numerous examples above. 20% would be for Natalie for convincing the girls to turn on Erik, that was also a pivotal moment for Foa Foa to stay in the game. And joint props to the Foa Foa 4 for staying together and not turning on each other until they had no choice.

At the merge, coming in down 8-4 in numbers ... let's say that Russell had been eliminated earlier on and Marisa or Betsy were still in the game in his place, do you think they could have pulled off all these giant coups and turnarounds required to survive week after week? You never know, but I seriously doubt they would have been able to bring an all Foa Foa tribe to the end. They needed Russell to make huge, bold moves to keep their tribe alive, and he provided. Unfortunately I believe that people were resentful of this and voted for Natalie because of it.

Six weeks from now when someone is talking about Natalie from Survivor I'd guess that 90% of us won't even remember who the heck they're talking about. I put her win along the lines of Vecepia back in Season 4 (and yes I had to look up her name). She did play a good game this season (and you have to in order to make it that far), but looking back, this will always be the season of Russell.

[johnnyshaka]

Mota makes a good point...any of the "dumb-ass girl alliance" could have been in Natalie's place...alongside Russell and whoever else he wanted to bring with him.

Natalie can't make that claim...not after the way she played this time around, at least.

[Jon]

Not sure if it's been mentioned (haven't read the spoiler posts), but I think All-Stars has already been filmed. It probably started before this season began to air.

That means Russel would be a complete wildcard, since nobody would know who he was or how he had played. (Same thing happened last all-stars with James and somebody else.)

That said, on the live reunion he didn't look like a guy who had just come home from a successful second tour of duty.

I just thought he looked drunk.

[saldana]

Not sure if it's been mentioned (haven't read the spoiler posts), but I think All-Stars has already been filmed. It probably started before this season began to air.

That means Russel would be a complete wildcard, since nobody would know who he was or how he had played. (Same thing happened last all-stars with James and somebody else.)

That said, on the live reunion he didn't look like a guy who had just come home from a successful second tour of duty.

that cant be right unless they are doing all stars in the same place as S19 (which they did do before i think)...we know that the survivor crews were still in samoa while S19 was airing because they released a statement after the earthquake saying everyone was safe.

[molson]

I didn't see Natalie winning the final immunity which kept the "guaranteed winner" Brett out of the final 3. She also didn't convince John to flip his vote. She didn't have Shambo's loyalty which they needed so badly to flip the game. She didn't win about 4,000 immunity idols of which one of them was a pivotal turnaround in the season. I'd say about 80% of the credit for getting to the final 3 would belong to Russell for the numerous examples above. 20% would be for Natalie for convincing the girls to turn on Erik, that was also a pivotal moment for Foa Foa to stay in the game. And joint props to the Foa Foa 4 for staying together and not turning on each other until they had no choice.

Six weeks from now when someone is talking about Natalie from Survivor I'd guess that 90% of us won't even remember who the heck they're talking about. I put her win along the lines of Vecepia back in Season 4 (and yes I had to look up her name). She did play a good game this season (and you have to in order to make it that far), but looking back, this will always be the season of Russell.

I agree with that, but winning Survivor isn't directly about having the most outwardly impressive strategy/accomplishments. It's only about getting to the end, and getting people to vote for you.

[Mota]

I agree with that, but winning Survivor isn't directly about having the most outwardly impressive strategy/accomplishments. It's only about getting to the end, and getting people to vote for you.

Okay, you are absolutely correct there. That's my issue with how the game is designed, it's too easy for floaters to ride the wave and win a million bucks. I prefer the structure of Big Brother where there's multiple steps towards an elimination and even if you're on the block you can win your way off. Seems like the more deserving people have a better chance to succeed in that game vs. Survivor.

The slogan is Outplay. Outwit. Outlast. But if you do those things and people hold it against you, it doesn't seem right.