FOFC Wisdom - Car Advice: Altima/Legacy/Mazda6/what else?

[DaddyTorgo]

So I'm looking for a new car (or potentially a preowned of course).

I'm looking at midsize sedans basically. Top-of-the-line packages (leather seats, moonroof, potentially GPS) on all of the different brands.

I of course intend to do my online research, but I thought I'd tap the collective-wisdom of FOFC too on the following models (and any tips for models I might have missed):

Nissan Altima
Subaru Legacy
Mazda 6-series

I've essentially ruled out the Camry as "the plain vanilla option" so I thought I'd go for something a little different.

I looked at an Infiniti G37 but frankly I wasn't blown away to the point that i was willing to pay 10 grand more for it. They didn't have any G35's in the showroom (is that the model a step down still?) and the salesmen weren't very interested in helping me just model-shop there.

So, any thoughts on these or other models?

[Eaglesfan27]

I'm likely buying in the next 2 months and have been impressed by the G35 that I have test driven. That being said, I haven't decided if it is worth the extra cost. I'm considering the Nissan Altima as well as the Toyota Avalon. I also liked the Lexus ES350, but that is in the same cost range as the G35. FWIW, Consumer reports gives the G35 glowing grades and has it as the highest rated car in the price range.

[DaddyTorgo]

oh okay - the people at the infiniti dealership were pretty shit and didn't come out and like offer to help us so i just saw a g37 - i'll take a look at a g35 hopefully tomorrow

[stevew]

One of my friends has a midsize Subaru. I think it is an Impreza. Where you live having all wheel drive might be nice. I think the Mileage is kinda poopy though.

[Peregrine]

I've had an Infiniti G35 for three years now and have really enjoyed it.

[Swaggs]

I'm a big fan of Subarus (we have an '03 Forrester and bought a new '09 Forrester in January). In West Virginia, between the weather and the hills, I like having all-wheel drive all of the time and they generally have good safety ratings. We got the top of the line package on the '09 and the interior is vastly improved from that of the '03 (where it was somewhat of a weakness) and I understand that to be the case w/ the Legacy, as well. That said, the mileage will only get around 20-26 per gallon.

I would look at the loaded Honda Accord or, if you feel like spending a little more, take a long look at the Acura TL. I'm not real crazy about some of the cosmetic changes that they made on the new model, but it is still pretty awesome looking and a top performing sedan.

[Swaggs]

One of my friends has a midsize Subaru. I think it is an Impreza. Where you live having all wheel drive might be nice. I think the Mileage is kinda poopy though.

Subarus are strange -- it seems like the Legacy, Impreza (hatchback or not), and Forrester all get nearly the exact same mileage, even though they are noticeably different sized.

[stevew]

I was at a Saab dealer the other day. Looked like they had some good discounts running.

Then again the Brand is folding I think.

[Chubby]

One of my friends has a midsize Subaru. I think it is an Impreza. Where you live having all wheel drive might be nice. I think the Mileage is kinda poopy though.

The wife has an Impreza, we like it. It gets ok gas mileage (of course I'm used to my Civic's gas mileage)

[bhlloy]

I totalled my 09 Camry last week :( so we're also looking for a new sedan. The top of the line fully loaded Accord is significantly cheaper than the competition, very interested in hearing if anyone has any experience with this car. Or may go smaller, something like a fully loaded Civic or 6 series. My wife gets invoice price on the 6-series through work so that might be worth a look.

Something I had never considered but has pretty good reviews (and is pretty cheap) is the Buick Lacrosse, anybody have any experience/thoughts on that one?

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm a big fan of Subarus (we have an '03 Forrester and bought a new '09 Forrester in January). In West Virginia, between the weather and the hills, I like having all-wheel drive all of the time and they generally have good safety ratings. We got the top of the line package on the '09 and the interior is vastly improved from that of the '03 (where it was somewhat of a weakness) and I understand that to be the case w/ the Legacy, as well. That said, the mileage will only get around 20-26 per gallon.

I would look at the loaded Honda Accord or, if you feel like spending a little more, take a long look at the Acura TL. I'm not real crazy about some of the cosmetic changes that they made on the new model, but it is still pretty awesome looking and a top performing sedan.

i looked at a fully-loaded camry. frankly i've been driving a corolla and i feel like toyota/honda is kinda the "plain vanilla" choice so i was looking elsewhere.

Acura's a good suggestion! I had forgotten bout them.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm a big fan of Subarus (we have an '03 Forrester and bought a new '09 Forrester in January). In West Virginia, between the weather and the hills, I like having all-wheel drive all of the time and they generally have good safety ratings. We got the top of the line package on the '09 and the interior is vastly improved from that of the '03 (where it was somewhat of a weakness) and I understand that to be the case w/ the Legacy, as well. That said, the mileage will only get around 20-26 per gallon.

I would look at the loaded Honda Accord or, if you feel like spending a little more, take a long look at the Acura TL. I'm not real crazy about some of the cosmetic changes that they made on the new model, but it is still pretty awesome looking and a top performing sedan.

I thought the interior of the Legacy was alright...of the list of ones I put out there I think I was least impressed by the interior of the Legacy (but that's all a relative thing...it was very nice but maybe not quite as nice)

[weegeebored]

I've got an '03 Mazda 6s. It was the first year for the model. I know better than to buy a car in its first model year but I did it as I needed a new car (old one needed a new trans), and I got 0% for 60 months.

The short of it is that I won't buy another Mazda. The quality of the interior is terrible. I had my seat covers replaced -- TWICE -- under warranty. The second time the service guy told me that I have to change the way I get in and out of my car otherwise it would keep happening. :confused:

I have had nothing but front end problems with it as well, to the tune of 2 grand, and I still need the ball joint assembly which is another 3 grand. No thank you.

The car was fast and handled great when I bought it, but the overall quality was lacking. Maybe just my bad luck but I at least wanted to mention my experience. Go for the leather, I guess, if you decide to get a 6.

[DaddyTorgo]

wow...yuck weegee

my sister has had a 3 for the past year-plus and she LOVES it.

whatever i'm getting i'm getting leather.

leather packages here in new england come with heated seats, which is really REALLY nice in the winter. plus i kinda have to get an upscale interior in case i've got clients or work-folk

[Passacaglia]

He was probably just trying to help you out -- no one thinks that Dukes of Hazard jump is cool anymore.

[Coffee Warlord]

Don't rule out the 2010 Ford Fusion. We were basically looking at identical cars (I was strongly leaning towards the Altima or the Mazda6).

I got the fully loaded V6 SEL, and I'm absolutely loving it. It doesn't have the real tight, sporty driving style like the Altima, it drives more like a solid luxury vehicle (I was amazed how smooth the ride / acceleration was on a Ford - they've really improved), and the SEL has every bell and whistle you can possible imagine. Very happy with it.

Bonus being a real nice 0%/60month incentive right now, as well.

edit: AND Ford's SYNC software is fucking AMAZING. I was blown away.

[Bobble]

Don't rule out the 2010 Ford Fusion.

I work for Ford, so grain of salt...but the Fusion is very nice. I've got an Edge with Sync. I really didn't think Sync would matter one way or the other but I'm hooked on it. Definitely worth a look.

[bhlloy]

I'm intrigued about the Fusion, right now my favorite by far is the Altima (cheaper and better cost of ownership than Camry and Accord) but the Fusion does look very interesting, although I'm not sure how much I'd use the SYNC and that seems to be the selling point.

[terpkristin]

When I was shopping around in '07, I tried a ton of things..I bought a Mazda 3, full package (leather, GPS, moon/sunroof, etc).

I still won't recommend Mazda on principle, though after that first year of absolute hell, my car's been fine.

The Altima had crappy pickup (granted, I'm used to small cars).

Compared to the other cars I tried, the Legacy was very uncomfortable. I say this as a former Subaru Legacy wagon owner (mine was a 96 and was AWESOME). My dad's got an 03 Legacy wagon and it's uncomfortable as hell. The one I tried was slightly better than my dad's. I recently sat in my friend's 09 Impreza wagon, it was better than I remember but I still couldn't see driving around in it for awhile (note, I'm taller than a lot of people).

1 month after I bought my Mazda 3, my mom bought an Acura TSX. Two months after that, my sister bought a Camry Hybrid. On the one hand, I love my mom's car--it handles beautifully, accelerates and gets reasonable mileage. Of course, it also takes expensive gas. My sister's car is nice (very comfortable and easy to drive), but you seem to be wanting a bigger name (my mom was the same way), so I'll leave it alone.

If you get one with a GPS, make sure you test drive it with the GPS. My GPS is alright (not great), and had I test drove one with a GPS, I probably wouldn't have gotten it.

/tk

[Coffee Warlord]

I'm intrigued about the Fusion, right now my favorite by far is the Altima (cheaper and better cost of ownership than Camry and Accord) but the Fusion does look very interesting, although I'm not sure how much I'd use the SYNC and that seems to be the selling point.

I thought the same thing, but it's quite spiffy. Though even without it, I'm still very happy with the car.

[bhlloy]

Maybe a stupid question but what exactly IS the SYNC? Voice activated bluetooth, music and turn-by-turn driving instructions?

If it's as good as you say it is Ford needs to do a better job marketing it, because I couldn't easily find the info on their website when I was looking at the car options.

[Bobble]

I thought the same thing, but it's quite spiffy.

Me too. Didn't think I'd care if I had it but I like it. I should really make use of the Jukebox feature. You can take a song, store it in Jukebox, and play it anytime without the CD. As a person who fixates on their one favorite song for the month, that's a great feature.

Maybe a stupid question but what exactly IS the SYNC? Voice activated bluetooth, music and turn-by-turn driving instructions?

If it's as good as you say it is Ford needs to do a better job marketing it, because I couldn't easily find the info on their website when I was looking at the car options.

www.syncmyride.com (http://www.syncmyride.com) Basically, you're right. Hands-free link to the phone, music (ipod, USB), and driver services (like traffic alerts, weather, sports scores, etc.).

[flere-imsaho]

As much as I'm a Mazda and Subaru fanboy, I can't recommend the Legacy sedan or the 6. With both cars, the companies abandon what they do well to try and create a mass-market car to compete with Toyota, Honda & Nissan, and fail.

This is why the Mazda 3 is, in comparison, an awesome little car and very competitive in its segment, and Subaru wagons, compact SUVs and tuner compacts are also awesome.

So, of the three, I'd probably go with the Altima, even though it's also pretty boring. As for other models, you'd have to share what characteristics you're looking for and what your budget is.

[DaddyTorgo]

really flere? you think so? i dunno...i thought the 6 was nice.

my sister has a 3.

The Altima is pretty boring yeah.

My price-range probably tops out right around 30, and I'm looking for something that'll seat 4 (although realistically most of the time it'll just be me). i'm pushing for a nice interior package (leather, the standard bose-level sound system - although tbh i don't listen to much music at the moment), moonroof.

[Coffee Warlord]

Fussssssion!

[DaddyTorgo]

but it's a ford.

idk about american cars. my dodge blew chunks and cost me a ton of money.

[flere-imsaho]

really flere? you think so? i dunno...i thought the 6 was nice.

It's nice, but there are better alternatives in the class. It's not the leader in its class like the 3 is.

my sister has a 3.

I love the 3. If my 10-year-old Corolla suddenly blows up (unlikely, sadly), I'm buying a 3.

My price-range probably tops out right around 30, and I'm looking for something that'll seat 4 (although realistically most of the time it'll just be me). i'm pushing for a nice interior package (leather, the standard bose-level sound system - although tbh i don't listen to much music at the moment), moonroof.

Well, if you're primarily looking for comfort, you could get a 2007/2008 Lexus ES or a 2005/2006 Lexus LS for 30K. If you're looking for something a bit more exciting you could look at a 2006/2007 Lexus IS for around 30K. The competing Acura models are also worth a look.

If those push your price range (and comfort level of your price range) too much, then you could also look at used BMW 3-series, which are very solid, quite comfortable, and have some fun. And yes, I wouldn't say no to the Ford Fusion, by all accounts a quality car and worth at least a test drive.

[DaddyTorgo]

It's nice, but there are better alternatives in the class. It's not the leader in its class like the 3 is.



I love the 3. If my 10-year-old Corolla suddenly blows up (unlikely, sadly), I'm buying a 3.



Well, if you're primarily looking for comfort, you could get a 2007/2008 Lexus ES or a 2005/2006 Lexus LS for 30K. If you're looking for something a bit more exciting you could look at a 2006/2007 Lexus IS for around 30K. The competing Acura models are also worth a look.

If those push your price range (and comfort level of your price range) too much, then you could also look at used BMW 3-series, which are very solid, quite comfortable, and have some fun. And yes, I wouldn't say no to the Ford Fusion, by all accounts a quality car and worth at least a test drive.

good suggestions - i'll have to take a look

[RainMaker]

I recently bought a Nissan Altima. I was planning on the Mazda 6 but decided to give the Altima a drive too (it was a little more). Really liked how it handled and felt there was a huge difference in the two.

Mine has all the extras (leather seats, sunroof, BOSE speakers, etc) and it's great. Might just be me, but I thought the Altima is just a better looking car than the other ones you mentioned. What may come across as boring screams classy to me. It just felt like it had the perfect mix of style and class with a little sportyness thrown in.

[Dr. Sak]

I just bought an 06 Acura TL and love it. Like many others I wasn't happy with the new TL's but I got a pretty good deal on the 06, it only had 27,000 miles on it.

[DaddyTorgo]

I recently bought a Nissan Altima. I was planning on the Mazda 6 but decided to give the Altima a drive too (it was a little more). Really liked how it handled and felt there was a huge difference in the two.

Mine has all the extras (leather seats, sunroof, BOSE speakers, etc) and it's great. Might just be me, but I thought the Altima is just a better looking car than the other ones you mentioned. What may come across as boring screams classy to me. It just felt like it had the perfect mix of style and class with a little sportyness thrown in.

i did think the altima had nice exterior lines - definately didn't think it was "plain" (as maybe the camry was).

[TrendNet]

Try the Pontiac G8.

I know... American, (manufactured in Australia) Dead Brand (still covered by GMC warranty though).

I too was looking at the Mazda 6, Nissan Maxima, Acura.

Then I drove the G8.

Loved it. Bought it.

Large interior, seats 5 adults and handles awesome.

Has current incentive of 0% financing for it right now.

[Bobble]

but it's a ford.

idk about american cars. my dodge blew chunks and cost me a ton of money.

It's a tough perception to turn around but there's good news out there about American car quality: Ford beats Toyota in quality rankings - Autos- msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19073071/)

[DaddyTorgo]

i'll look at the G8, and I suppose I should look at some American cars too. Regardless, based on the difficulty I perceive in getting a loan it may be a longer road than I thought, so I should have time to.

[DaddyTorgo]

2010 buick lacrosse anyone?

[Passacaglia]

Good bump. We've got a Ford retiree in the family, so we're looking at a Ford Fusion, Mercury Milan, or maybe some kind of Volvo. The plan used to have Mazda on it, but it doesn't anymore. I'll read the older stuff in the thread when I get to work.

[DaddyTorgo]

If I was willing to step up a cool 6-8k apparently the new 2010 Hyundai Genesis is Lexus-like in its interior, but it clocks in closer to 40k than 30k. Might test drive one, along with the Buick this weekend just in case.

Thought came to me last night that maybe I should consider leasing for the short-term, that way (if as it seems to be doing) the business takes off I can more easily take the step up to the more luxerious level.

Hmm

[rowech]

2010 buick lacrosse anyone?

My wife and I are starting to look and it's one we're considering. The one knock on it from what I read is the gas mileage. It's quite horrible actually. We're considering it, Nissan Altima and Maxima, and an Accord. We'll look at Accura and Infiniti but I think they'll be out of our range.

[DaddyTorgo]

yeah...it does have knockable gas mileage. i'm not sure how much more $/yr it would be than say a mazda 6...let's check fueleconomy.gov

from all accounts the interiors are very nice for the price.

annual fuel cost (v6) is $1935 (estimated obviously).

annual estimated fuel cost for v6 mazda 6 is $2033 ($1700 for the 4-cylinder)

the 4-cylinder altima runs like $1500, the v6 like $1768
the maxima (v6) $2013

[rowech]

yeah...it does have knockable gas mileage. i'm not sure how much more $/yr it would be than say a mazda 6...i found a website that estimated that last night, i'll peek at it today.

from all accounts the interiors are top-class.

Very much so. They went for the feel of a Lexus inside and really they nailed it in my opinion.

[DaddyTorgo]

Very much so. They went for the feel of a Lexus inside and really they nailed it in my opinion.

which sounds...appealing. especially if i was considering the v6 mazda 6 with a package that was gonna put me at 32 already - to get a lacrosse with an equivelent package for like 34 is no big thing. fuel economy is essentially a wash - it's the v6 over the 4-cylinder that's making the difference there. i've heard rumors buick is going to do a 4-cylinder version of the lacrosse later this year...

want to check one out this weekend before i think any further on it

[DaddyTorgo]

Well the Buick place ended up being assholey...they had one 2010 lacrosse in-stock and it was already sold and they would only let me sit in it for like 30 seconds cuz it was being picked up that day...even though it was on the sales floor (gee that's fishy). So fuck them.

I ended up going with a Mazda 6. 4-cylinder...don't need the 6 and the mileage-knock that comes with it. fully loaded, minus the GPS (cheaper to get aftermarket).

I signed the papers for it in mid-March, but it was still in the factory. It's now on the truck headed up here and due sometime next week. Just got the call that my financing was approved, so I'm ready to go...woohoo!

[DanGarion]

Just going to answer this since I didn't see anyone say it. The G35 is a 2008 model. The G37 is the 2009 and beyond model. The main differences are a 3.7 (compared to 3.5) in the 37, along with a 7 speed auto instead of the 5 in the G35. I love my G35 that we bought in Oct 2008, it's an overall awesome car. We got it for over 8k below sticker with a 4k rebate that was around at the time.

[DaddyTorgo]

ZOOM ZOOM.

It has arrived!! Picked it up yesterday afternoon with like 11 miles on the odometer. Fun times!

[Rizon]

Good thing you didn't go with the Toyota Crapry.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'd be dead already. Haha.

No really...I love my 6 already. Maybe it's just that I've always driven "entry level" cars with no frills, but the amount of things they do with technology now is crazy. Push button start, don't even need the key out of your pocket...blind-spot monitoring...the seat position adjusts based on which key you have on your person, etc. It's a real treat for me to drive. But then again prior to this I had an 02 Corolla that was bare-bones (we're talking power-nothing), and prior to that a Dodge Neon that was also bare-bones.

[rowech]

Nothing like making a somewhat impulsive decisoin in buying a car. After much research we had narrowed it down to an Altima or Malibu. We went to test drive an Altima with that being the intent. Ended up getting a car by the end. Feel like we got a nice deal on a 28K MSRP car, 4500 trade in, some rebates, etc. and ended up financing 21 K for it. Still worried about buying a Nisaan. For some reason the idea they have some of the best cars out there seems weird to me. Hopefully, no regret.

[jeff061]

Never owned a Nissan. But I know several who have and all were very pleased.

[Eaglesfan27]

I'm really enjoying driving my Infiniti G37. Every other car I've ever had has been no-frills, minimal acceleration, etc, and it will be hard to ever go back after driivng this car.

[Swaggs]

I sold Nissans for awhile and don't have anything bad to say about them, other than the Quest (minivans), Armada (large SUV), and Titan (full-size pickup). All the mechanical features of the cars are very good and, if you like its looks and the interior (which are the things most folks are critical of), then I think you'll enjoy it.

[I. J. Reilly]

Unfortunately I find myself in the car market now. Thought I would bump this thread instead of starting a new one since I’m mainly looking at the Altima and Mazda 6. A few people I work with have Altima’s and they love them, and I’ve rented Mazda’s in the past and been impressed with how they drive. I’ve really only done internet research at this point, but I am really liking what I read on both of these cars.

DT and rowech; you guys still happy with your purchase 6 months later? Anything you wished you had looked at or done differently?

[rowech]

Unfortunately I find myself in the car market now. Thought I would bump this thread instead of starting a new one since I’m mainly looking at the Altima and Mazda 6. A few people I work with have Altima’s and they love them, and I’ve rented Mazda’s in the past and been impressed with how they drive. I’ve really only done internet research at this point, but I am really liking what I read on both of these cars.

DT and rowech; you guys still happy with your purchase 6 months later? Anything you wished you had looked at or done differently?

We've had a couple of nusiance things happen though that probably should be mentioned. First week we had it, there was some sort of seal problem. Was fixed immediately. Back window got stuck and wouldn't go back up. Fixed again. I'm sure they're just random luck deals on those.

That said, we are EXTREMELY happy with the car. I love the handling of it most of all. Just handles so true and so easy. Plenty of power despite being only a V4. Sounds made from the engine take a little getting used to as it's some crazy engine type...it'll sound bad and I've been told some people can't get past it. Not a big deal at all though once you get used to it. I stand behind our Altima for sure.

[GrantDawg]

We are shopping for second car right now as well. We have a nice little Sentra 2.5s all paid for, so we are leaning Altima. My brother-in-law has one that is very nice. We are also looking very hard at the Kia Optima and the Hyundai Sonata. Don't laugh, because the quality of those cars have shot up in recent years. You are talking saving thousands of dollars on new cars that are as good or better than the other options. The Sonata especially.

[DaddyTorgo]

Super happy with my 6. Not sure there's words to describe how happy I am. Just took her in for her first oil change last week (~3800 miles), and I've had absolutely zero issues so far. Handling and responsiveness and all are great. No mechanical problems. No non-mechanical problems of any sort.

The thing that pushed me towards a 6 rather than an Altima was I guess the interior - I think the interiors on the 6's look nicer (IIRC you can only get one color leather interior on the Altima, and you have to get a certain exterior color to get that), and they maybe have a touch more legroom in the back seat. But that may just be personal preference.

I know I test-drove the Altima and it was a close 2nd-place. At least out here I don't see many 6's too also, and I think it looks somewhat different/nicer. But that's for sure personal preference.

V4 is plenty enough pickup and power...no need to go to the V6 and destroy your fuel economy (as rowech echoed).

[DaddyTorgo]

We are shopping for second car right now as well. We have a nice little Sentra 2.5s all paid for, so we are leaning Altima. My brother-in-law has one that is very nice. We are also looking very hard at the Kia Optima and the Hyundai Sonata. Don't laugh, because the quality of those cars have shot up in recent years. You are talking saving thousands of dollars on new cars that are as good or better than the other options. The Sonata especially.

Hyundai makes good stuff. If I could have afforded a bit more in payments I woulda gone for a Hyundai Genesis.

[I. J. Reilly]

Thanks for the updates guys. Glad everyone is still happy with their purchase. Hopefully when I start test driving cars one of them will stand out enough to make it an easy decision.

[rowech]

Well, two years later, and our Altima's little issues are starting to outweigh the car. The warranty is up in five months and to be honest, it has us worried. We've had the thing in 8 times for misc. crap like a window not going back up, a corroded battery after a year and a half, a rattle that won't go away under the windshield, now there's a leak somewhere. All of this stuff and the other minor issues have been covered but quite frankly, we worry we got the one dud.

So we're considering scaling our car down since it's looking more and more like were are going to be unable to have children. We're considering the Hyundai Elantra. Anybody with experience with this car or at the least the Sonata? We're also considering Buick Verano along with a Chevy Cruze. Anybody with experience on these? Our general impression is the Elantra stood out. THere is a possibility because of GM points we can go with a Malibu as well to be a bit bigger.

Really disappointed in the Altima. We still love the car overall but we just got a dud. Ain't no way around it.

[Chief Rum]

Well, two years later, and our Altima's little issues are starting to outweigh the car. The warranty is up in five months and to be honest, it has us worried. We've had the thing in 8 times for misc. crap like a window not going back up, a corroded battery after a year and a half, a rattle that won't go away under the windshield, now there's a leak somewhere. All of this stuff and the other minor issues have been covered but quite frankly, we worry we got the one dud.

So we're considering scaling our car down since it's looking more and more like were are going to be unable to have children. We're considering the Hyundai Elantra. Anybody with experience with this car or at the least the Sonata? We're also considering Buick Verano along with a Chevy Cruze. Anybody with experience on these? Our general impression is the Elantra stood out. THere is a possibility because of GM points we can go with a Malibu as well to be a bit bigger.

Really disappointed in the Altima. We still love the car overall but we just got a dud. Ain't no way around it.

I can't help you with the Elantra or the Sonata, but I have a Genesis and it is terrific. It drives great and it's nice looking car.

I think my only complaint is that when you do need to have something done, it's expesnive heck. Brakes and tires were all very expensive. Not sure if that would still be the case with the Sonata or the Elantra, but I imagine it would be. And that stuff isn't covered by their warranty (which is considered to be excellent, with the 100,000 miles or 10 year warranty, they have).