Fort Hood Shooting - 12 Dead, 30+ Injured

[RainMaker]

Shitty news. All over the major news sites.

[Galaril]

Geez don't know if I am going to want to know who the shooters are anyway you slice it.The options tare basically terrorists, soldiers, civilians none of which give me warm and fuzzies.

[GoldenEagle]

My guess would be some sort of extremist group, but we will see.

[JPhillips]

The military is saying it's a purely military incident. Wouldn't be too hard for a disgruntled or crazy guy to start killing people on a military base.

[RainMaker]

Seems like multiple shooters though so who knows.

[DaddyTorgo]

of course they're not going to say it was terrorists. but what's the alternative? 2 stressed-out guys making a pact? I dunno bout that.

[RomaGoth]

Apparently this isn't the first time problems have arisen either.

hxxp://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572350,00.html

[Karlifornia]

There was an article about this in the latest issue of Rolling Stone I believe...maybe/maybe not Fort Hood...but problems at a military base like this.

[DanGarion]

Apparently this isn't the first time problems have arisen either.

hxxp://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572350,00.html

That's excellent writing in them that there article that the AP contributed to.

[JonInMiddleGA]

of course they're not going to say it was terrorists. but what's the alternative? 2 stressed-out guys making a pact? I dunno bout that.

And in keeping with our polar opposition to each other, my first reaction to the latest writethrough was to find that possibility entirely plausible. I'm short of considering it the most likely scenario but it didn't strike me the least bit unbelievable either.

[JonInMiddleGA]

(CNN) -- Eleven people plus a gunman were killed and 31 were wounded after the gunman opened fire at Fort Hood in Texas on Thursday, a Fort Hood spokesman said.

The gunman was a soldier, and two other soldiers have been detained as suspects, said the spokesman, Lt. Gen. Bob Cone.

Cone said more than one shooter may have been involved.

.

[DanGarion]

I'm sure someone will say it was all a conspiracy eventually.

[Greyroofoo]

I think it was all a conspiracy

[lungs]

Anybody see the Arabic sounding name part in the news story?

[Doug5984]

The suspected gunman was identified by ABC News as Major Malik Nadal Hasan.

The shooter was killed and two other suspects, who are also soldiers, have been apprehended, Lt. Gen. Robert W. Cone said.

3 soliders, if it was one- I could think he went off the deep end, but getting 3 to go off the deep end at once, that makes me think there might be more to it. I don't know, it sucks all around no matter who did it.
Sad day.

[DanGarion]

Of course we are talking about a Major, it's not like he was just recruited yesterday.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Anybody see the Arabic sounding name part in the news story?

Not until it was quoted in the next post.

But oddly enough what jumped out at me much more shockingly was the rank of the reported shooter, way moreso than his more-exotic-than-John-Smith name.

[Galaril]

Anybody see the Arabic sounding name part in the news story?

Conspiracy theories may begin.

[Doug5984]

Not until it was quoted in the next post.

But oddly enough what jumped out at me much more shockingly was the rank of the reported shooter, way moreso than his more-exotic-than-John-Smith name.

Yeah, agreed- I don't know a whole lot about military rank, but I know Major is pretty high up there, like someone said- he wasn't recruited yesterday.

[Greyroofoo]

Like I said that is not reassuring. One guys goes off every now and then ok but two or three guys and the military (Army) has got a problem. A few more of these fucked things go on and no way am I going to push my kids to attend the Air Force Academy. Just bad pub.

So having 2 wars going on right isn't enough to keep your kids out of the Air Force Academy but a random(afaik) shooting is?

[Galaril]

So having 2 wars going on right isn't enough to keep your kids out of the Air Force Academy but a random(afaik) shooting is?

Yeah good point.

[JPhillips]

It seems like there's some confusion as to whether the two suspects in custody were actually involved in the shootings.

[bbgunn]

Damn, my aunt used to work at Fort Hood a long long time ago. That's sad to hear.

[JPhillips]

Army Psychiatrist. This is very strange.

[Radii]

But oddly enough what jumped out at me much more shockingly was the rank of the reported shooter, way moreso than his more-exotic-than-John-Smith name.

+1

[Greyroofoo]

Some reports are saying he was a recent muslim convert.

This won't end well.

[RainMaker]

I'm only seeing those reports on sites that seem like they have an agenda to stir up some xenophobia. Might turn out to be true, but have yet to see any real news source come out and say it.

Wouldn't surprise me though, religion strikes again.

[Schmidty]

Wouldn't surprise me though, religion strikes again.

Yes, because all "religious" people go around shooting people. None religious people never, ever do things like that. :rolleyes:

[DaddyTorgo]

i heard on the national news (abc i think) that he was a converted muslim.

[CamEdwards]

Fox interviewed a guy who they said was his cousin. Cousin says he was lifelong muslim.

AP is reporting, however, that authorities became aware of him six months ago after some comments he made on a blog comparing suicide bombers to soldiers who would jump on a grenade to save the lives of others.

AP sources: Authorities had concerns about suspect (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9BPNHDO6&show_article=1)

[RainMaker]

Yes, because all "religious" people go around shooting people. None religious people never, ever do things like that. :rolleyes:
Not all, but we aren't fighting multiple wars to protect ourselves from some atheists who want to fly planes into buildings. Take a look at most of the major global conflicts today and let me know what they have in common.

[cartman]

Take a look at most of the major global conflicts today and let me know what they have in common.

They are messes left after Britian got out of the colonial business?

[Passacaglia]

They are messes left after Britian got out of the colonial business?

So it all comes back to Guy Fawkes day.

Anyway, my sister is there, or works there at least. She's okay -- I guess she was off-post at the time.

[DaddyTorgo]

Anyway, my sister is there, or works there at least. She's okay -- I guess she was off-post at the time.

good news

[Marc Vaughan]

The BBC report (BBC NEWS | Americas | Deadly shootings at US army base (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8345713.stm)) mentions that he was about to be deployed to Iraq.

(also seems to indicate that he was the only shooter - no mention of his being a Muslim at all in that report)

[Marc Vaughan]

Anyway, my sister is there, or works there at least. She's okay -- I guess she was off-post at the time.

Glad to hear that.

[Passacaglia]

Press conference guy (Lt. Gen. Robert Cone) is saying the shooter is not dead.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Anyway, my sister is there, or works there at least. She's okay -- I guess she was off-post at the time.

Glad to hear that, hopefully you didn't have too many anxious moments before you found out she was okay.

[Senator]

Know alot of good people there. Sad story.

[JPhillips]

Fox interviewed a guy who they said was his cousin. Cousin says he was lifelong muslim.

AP is reporting, however, that authorities became aware of him six months ago after some comments he made on a blog comparing suicide bombers to soldiers who would jump on a grenade to save the lives of others.

AP sources: Authorities had concerns about suspect (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9BPNHDO6&show_article=1)

The post in questions seems more academic than jihadist to me.

There was a grenade thrown amongs a group of American soldiers. One of the soldiers, feeling that it was to late for everyone to flee jumped on the grave with the intention of saving his comrades. Indeed he saved them. He inentionally took his life (suicide) for a noble cause i.e. saving the lives of his soldier. To say that this soldier committed suicide is inappropriate. Its more appropriate to say he is a brave hero that sacrificed his life for a more noble cause. Scholars have paralled this to suicide bombers whose intention, by sacrificing their lives, is to help save Muslims by killing enemy soldiers. If one suicide bomber can kill 100 enemy soldiers because they were caught off guard that would be considered a strategic victory. Their intention is not to die because of some despair. The same can be said for the Kamikazees in Japan. They died (via crashing their planes into ships) to kill the enemies for the homeland. You can call them crazy i you want but their act was not one of suicide that is despised by Islam. So the scholars main point is that “IT SEEMS AS THOUGH YOUR INTENTION IS THE MAIN ISSUE” and Allah (SWT) knows best.

[Noop]

Sad to hear.

[stevew]

Re the Shooter


Can't they execute the fuck really fast since If assume this is a treasonous act? This is a military case or a state case?

[duckman]

Re the Shooter


Can't they execute the fuck really fast since If assume this is a treasonous act? This is a military case or a state case?
It's a military case since it occurred on a military installation against military personnel.

He'll receive due process according to the UCMJ. They are like the feds in that they will make damn sure that they will get a conviction. The military courts have a 98% conviction rate and are very thorough with their investigation and prosecution.

[bbgunn]

Anyway, my sister is there, or works there at least. She's okay -- I guess she was off-post at the time.
Good to hear, Passacaglia.

(also seems to indicate that he was the only shooter - no mention of his being a Muslim at all in that report)
This is why I like to get news about my home country from the BBC instead of Fox, MSNBC and CNN.

[Galaril]

Re the Shooter


Can't they execute the fuck really fast since If assume this is a treasonous act? This is a military case or a state case?

Technically it would be military and in this case probably federal having happened on a base. That being said I am sure the miltary authoriites will be working with the local state prosecutors to see who can get a more severe sentencing with death almost certainly being the aim IMHO.

[CamEdwards]

Good to hear, Passacaglia.


This is why I like to get news about my home country from the BBC instead of Fox, MSNBC and CNN.

Why would you like to get less information about what's going on? I'm confused by this statement.

[stevew]

Supposedly a female cop neutralized the situation? While a headshot to the guy saves trial expenses, it is kind of good she got him before he could "end it all". No virgins for this dick.

[Passacaglia]

No virgins for this dick.

I think it's just a guy who didn't want to go to Iraq, and freaked out.

[bbgunn]

Why would you like to get less information about what's going on? I'm confused by this statement.

I like my news unbiased. Fox News is too far right and MSNBC is too far left. And who knows what CNN is doing.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

So it all comes back to Guy Fawkes day.

Anyway, my sister is there, or works there at least. She's okay -- I guess she was off-post at the time.

Didn't expect a good laugh in this thread. Thank you! :)

Glad to know your family is ok.

As for the murderous bastard, more will be paid to his name and faith than is necessary or appropriate, but the fact is that they did factor in. He should be treated the same as anyone else who would commit such an act. No better or worse. Line him up & fill him with lead.

[BYU 14]

Anyway, my sister is there, or works there at least. She's okay -- I guess she was off-post at the time.

Glad your sister is well Pass, such a tragedy in a place our troops should be safest.

RIP and prayers to the families.

[Tasan]

Technically it would be military and in this case probably federal having happened on a base. That being said I am sure the miltary authoriites will be working with the local state prosecutors to see who can get a more severe sentencing with death almost certainly being the aim IMHO.

Conviction in a court marshal can result in the death penalty. I'm guessing this is where the trial ends up, since the majority of those killed and wounded were servicemen, and more importantly the shooter was too.

Court-martial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_Martial) for what its worth.

[RainMaker]

The thing that bothers me about this shit is that they take other people. If you hate your life then kill yourself. These assholes have to take other people with them though. Just can't stand stories like this.

[whomario]

right now the "he was muslim and went on a suicide mission" is not more likely than "he was bat crazy and crushed by the military structure" ...


His carnage followed several other cases of U.S. (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/United+States) soldiers turning homicidal against their comrades.
In May, Sgt. John Russell (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/John+Russell), 44, went on a rampage at Camp Liberty (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Camp+Liberty) in Iraq, killing five soldiers in an anti-stress clinic. Sgt. Joseph Bozicevich (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Joseph+Bozicevich), 39, murdered two superiors at a base south of Baghdad (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Baghdad) in September 2008.
Suicides are also on the rise. Army suicides are up 37% since 2006, and the military rate is higher than the civilian rate.
Since the 2003 Iraq invasion, 75 Fort Hood soldiers have killed themselves, nine this year. That prompted the base to take steps to reduce stress on soldiers, including cutting work hours and ordering them to be home in time for dinner.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/11/06/2009-11-06_why_did_fort_hood_killer_snap.html#ixzz0W4TtYbSx (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/11/06/2009-11-06_why_did_fort_hood_killer_snap.html#ixzz0W4TtYbSx)


I mean, those are some substantial numbers right there, didn´t hear that much about it (then again german media doesn´t have the american military and it´s problems high on their list of priorities obviously) .

[Ben E Lou]

Not until it was quoted in the next post.

But oddly enough what jumped out at me much more shockingly was the rank of the reported shooter, way moreso than his more-exotic-than-John-Smith name.

+1
+2. That really jumped out at me, too.



Just read this on him, in this story...

Picture begins to emerge of Fort Hood suspect - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/11/05/fort.hood.suspect/index.html)


According to military records, Hasan was born in Virginia, and a federal official said he was a U.S. citizen of Jordanian descent.

Military records show Hasan receiving his appointment to the Army as a first lieutenant in June 1997 after graduating from Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, Virginia, with a degree in biochemistry.


Six years later, he graduated from the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences' F. Edward Hebert School Of Medicine in Bethesda, Maryland, and was first an intern, then a resident and finally a fellow at Walter Reed Army Medical Center.


Promoted to captain in 2003, he was promoted to major in May.
In 2009, Hasan he completed a fellowship in disaster and preventive psychiatry and was assigned to Darnall in July.


He was awarded the National Defense Service Medal, the Global War on Terrorism Service Medal and the Army Service Ribbon, but was never deployed outside the United States.

My sniff test says this sounds like a case of a previously-valuable asset with a significant track record of good/excellent service who just went nutso, whether for non-religious or religious reasons. 12 years is an awfully long time to have been in the military with intending to pull something like this.

[DaddyTorgo]

weren't there multiple shooters though? or have they backed off that?

[Ben E Lou]

See the lead story at CNN.com. They've backed off it publicly, at least.


Fort Hood, Texas (CNN) -- The suspect in Thursday's deadly shootings at Fort Hood, Texas, is in stable condition, the hospital commander at the base said Friday.


Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, a psychiatrist practicing at Darnall Army Medical Center at Fort Hood, was shot multiple times and was taken into custody, ending the shooting rampage Thursday afternoon.


The gunman opened fire at a military processing center at Fort Hood, killing one civilian and 12 soldiers, said Col. John Rossi, deputy commanding general at Fort Hood.


Twenty-eight people are still hospitalized and in stable condition, Rossi said at a news conference Friday morning. Hasan is the sole suspect in the shootings, Rossi said.

[Calis]

I think people are giving too much credit to the time in. When I was in some of the most jacked up people around were the ones who had been in for years and I met a fair share of Majors who weren't clicking on all cylinders.

Obviously going to this sort of extreme is another matter all together though, but I actually didn't see the rank or time in service as shocking.

I think it's probably a mixture of factors from getting deployed to treatment or perceived treatment based off his name/religion, and what he's seen from people coming back.

[BYU 14]

I think people are giving too much credit to the time in. When I was in some of the most jacked up people around were the ones who had been in for years and I met a fair share of Majors who weren't clicking on all cylinders.

Obviously going to this sort of extreme is another matter all together though, but I actually didn't see the rank or time in service as shocking.

I think it's probably a mixture of factors from getting deployed to treatment or perceived treatment based off his name/religion, and what he's seen from people coming back.

I agree totally, when I served there was still quite a few Vietnam vets in and I swear some of them could not have functioned outside the military and like Calis I met more than 1 that was plain nuts. Lengthy service time and combat/pending combat experience, especially in places as fucked as Iraq/Vietnam seem to make some very susceptible to this type of thing unfortunately.

[Raiders Army]

My sniff test says this sounds like a case of a previously-valuable asset with a significant track record of good/excellent service who just went nutso, whether for non-religious or religious reasons. 12 years is an awfully long time to have been in the military with intending to pull something like this.

FYI, everyone in the military gets the National Defense Service Medal and Global War on Terrorism Service Medal. They're just medals to make Soldiers feel better because they don't have anything on their chest. The Army Service Ribbon is given out when Soldiers complete AIT or and Officer Basic Course.

If he had the Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal, it would've meant that he deployed.

[Ben E Lou]

FYI, everyone in the military gets the National Defense Service Medal and Global War on Terrorism Service Medal. They're just medals to make Soldiers feel better because they don't have anything on their chest.Heh. Freakin' Bobby Brady awards, eh?

[Raiders Army]

Yep.

[Galaril]

Conviction in a court marshal can result in the death penalty. I'm guessing this is where the trial ends up, since the majority of those killed and wounded were servicemen, and more importantly the shooter was too.

Court-martial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_Martial) for what its worth.

Yes, it can result in a death penalty but he did this int he state of TEXAS so they surely could get the death penalty quickly there. Shit they probably could get him a death penalty for each person killed. Flip the switch 12 times on the bastard.

[Dodgerchick]

Yes, it can result in a death penalty but he did this int he state of TEXAS so they surely could get the death penalty quickly there. Shit they probably could get him a death penalty for each person killed. Flip the switch 12 times on the bastard.

OK, this made me laugh.

[Galaril]

I think people are giving too much credit to the time in. When I was in some of the most jacked up people around were the ones who had been in for years and I met a fair share of Majors who weren't clicking on all cylinders.

Obviously going to this sort of extreme is another matter all together though, but I actually didn't see the rank or time in service as shocking.

I think it's probably a mixture of factors from getting deployed to treatment or perceived treatment based off his name/religion, and what he's seen from people coming back.


Agree same experience for me as well.

[Abe Sargent]

Not all, but we aren't fighting multiple wars to protect ourselves from some atheists who want to fly planes into buildings. Take a look at most of the major global conflicts today and let me know what they have in common.

Power, land, hatred. I don;t see love, respect, and tolerance, which are principles espoused by every major religion. Just because someone claims they are a part of a religion doesn't mean they are.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

My sniff test says this sounds like a case of a previously-valuable asset with a significant track record of good/excellent service who just went nutso, whether for non-religious or religious reasons. 12 years is an awfully long time to have been in the military with intending to pull something like this.

I think that his religious beliefs factored in as the pressure/catalyst for him to snap, but were not to blame for the act no more than if the catalyst had been an unfaithful spouse.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Flip the switch 12 times on the bastard.

What's that burning smell?

[DanGarion]

I think that his religious beliefs factored in as the pressure/catalyst for him to snap, but were not to blame for the act no more than if the catalyst had been an unfaithful spouse.

You've talked to him personally?

[Greyroofoo]

You've talked to him personally?

Considering he yelled, "Allahu Akbar" during the shootings it's not a bad guess.

[JPhillips]

Considering he yelled, "Allahu Akbar" during the shootings it's not a bad guess.

That may have happened, but after all the false and mistaken reports yesterday I'm not going to take that at face value yet.

[Galaril]

I think that his religious beliefs factored in as the pressure/catalyst for him to snap, but were not to blame for the act no more than if the catalyst had been an unfaithful spouse.

You've talked to him personally?

Yeah, any one who is trying to just paint this as a crazy guy I think will have a tough time selling that one to the jury don't you think? Why would they even entertain that idea and help this guy get a insanity plea? I think there were obvious religious undertones at the least with these shootings. The evidence is already coming out he was a vocal opponent to the war's and had compared the suicide bombers top soldiers who jumped on grenades to save other soldiers. Not sure what it all means but it doesn't sound good for Major Hasan I would say for sure.

I also have a question on where this Shrink got the two guns in the first place? I am assuming they were his personal privately owned guns? If it comes out he just bought these guns recently it will be a shame there was not some kind of check that could of alert the authorities that already had him marked as a possible threat.

[MrBug708]

It is sad that someone who received so much sponsored training through our military repaid his debt with such violence.

[RainMaker]

Power, land, hatred. I don;t see love, respect, and tolerance, which are principles espoused by every major religion. Just because someone claims they are a part of a religion doesn't mean they are.
Kind of an easy out to just say that everyone who flies into a building or shoots up a military base while espousing their religuous beliefs were not really part of the religion. Maybe next you can tell me that gangs are completely safe because those who kill other people are not really part of the gang.

[Passacaglia]

Kind of an easy out to just say that everyone who flies into a building or shoots up a military base while espousing their religuous beliefs were not really part of the religion. Maybe next you can tell me that gangs are completely safe because those who kill other people are not really part of the gang.

An easy out of what?

[RainMaker]

An easy out of what?
I said that many of our major conflicts in the world are religious in nature. He said that those people don't count for some reason as being part of religion for some reason.

[RainMaker]

This might have been the stresser. A fellow soldier ripped a bumper sticker off his car and keyed it.

Manager: Muslim sticker removed from suspect's car - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091106/ap_on_re_us/us_fort_hood_shooting)

[Passacaglia]

I said that many of our major conflicts in the world are religious in nature. He said that those people don't count for some reason as being part of religion for some reason.

I think it's greatly oversimplifying things to say that our major conflicts are religious in nature -- I think that's an assumption that's being made because the sides involved are of different religions, and because religion is used to rile people up for it. But I think in each case, there's a true nature to the conflict that religion is shielding. That might have been what Abe was trying to say too, but I'm not sure.

[Passacaglia]

This might have been the stresser. A fellow soldier ripped a bumper sticker off his car and keyed it.

Manager: Muslim sticker removed from suspect's car - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091106/ap_on_re_us/us_fort_hood_shooting)

tarcone!!!!

[RainMaker]

tarcone!!!!
When I saw what the sticker said, I thought the same exact thing. :lol:

[Dutch]

A very tragic day indeed. My heart goes out to the soldiers that lost their lives, their families, and every one directly or indirectly related to this massacre.

[lungs]

One of the wounded grew up not too far from me.

[Glengoyne]

As for one of the rumors that there were multiple shooters. One of the two cops who shot him heard people telling him "two more...two more". He thought they were telling him there were two more suspects.

Actually they were saying...'put two more into him.'

Officer Describes Hasan Firefight - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/07/national/main5568757.shtml?tag=topnews)


It looks like there is still a lot that is unclear about what actually took place.

[Galaril]

Conviction in a court marshal can result in the death penalty. I'm guessing this is where the trial ends up, since the majority of those killed and wounded were servicemen, and more importantly the shooter was too.

Court-martial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_Martial) for what its worth.

here is an article mentioning how rae it is for the death penalty in miltitary justice cases outside of war time/combat scenarios.
Death penalty rare, executions rarer in military - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091111/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_fort_hood_military_justice)

[stevew]

I didn't realize soldiers weren't armed at all times. I expected an ankle holster weapon would be standard issue.

[DaddyTorgo]

Bump

Alleged Fort Hood shooter confirmed dead, 14 injured - WAFF-TV: News, Weather and Sports for Huntsville, AL (http://www.waff.com/story/25147256/alleged-fort-hood-shooter-confirmed-dead-14-injured-incident-still-active)

KCEN-TV reported an active shooter at Fort Hood around 4:30 p.m. CT, and said several injuries have been sustained and one person has been taken to the hospital with injuries.

The Associated Press reports the alleged shooter died of a self-inflicted wound, according to an internal Justice Department report.

At least 14 have been reported injured in a shooting that reportedly started at the medical support building on Fort Hood in central Texas on Wednesday.

[NobodyHere]

I hate sequels

[Sun Tzu]

Hate is a strong word.

[EagleFan]

Seriously? Why do these tragedies always bring out the troll?

[Dutch]

Damn.

[JonInMiddleGA]

NBC Dallas reporting that it appears to have begun with an argument in the motor pool. Shooter tentatively ID'ed as a 34 y/o enlisted man

3 Victims, Gunman Dead After Second Fort Hood Mass Shooting | NBC 5 Dallas-Fort Worth (http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Active-Shooter-Reported-at-Fort-Hood-253636461.html)

[flere-imsaho]

Various media outlets now reporting the soldier was an Iraq vet who was being reviewed for PTSD.