Things a Game Did Right

[SportsDino]

I know there are already a few gaming threads going on, but I've got a theme it would be nice to explore.

In some of your favorite or least favorite games, what mechanics did that particular game implement that were very interesting or well done. So rather than stating a favorite game or least favorite, I want you to try and pick out a particular element of the gameplay (not the plot, art, music, unless you are describing a feature of that content, not just the overall quality of it).

So to show examples:

- Grand Theft Auto 3: San Andreas:
I love that you can seamlessly travel across a massive three city gameworld, the wide open environment and artwork involved, in itself is a major draw of the game.

- Dragon Age: Origins:
The RPG where effects and status changes seemed to have more of an impact rather than the amount of raw damage you inflict because you bought weapon X. Skills in battles, for all classes, make combat more than just clicking a creature until it is dead.

- Front Office Football:
I love the trading mechanism for future draft picks, and the trade AI seems less stupid than mainstream games. And that player scouting is complex and boom/busts occur which seems more realistic.

I'd rather stay away from things you hate about games, because thats easy!

The more particular the better.

[Chubby]

I don't think I'd put FOF's trading on this list...

[Coffee Warlord]

Sort of abstract, but...

Football Manager - Immersion.

It can be overwhelming, and I still think press conferences are utterly stupid, but my god, even without those, FM still has the most interactive, immersive world of any sports game ever.

[DataKing]

BioShock did a better job of making the NPCs feel like real people than any other game I've played in recent memory. The voice acting was absolutely superb, and it went just beyond the "name NPCs." Even the run-of-the-mill badies you encounter feel like real people who have gone insane. The women with the baby carriages still give me chills.

[SportsDino]

What makes FM immersive though?

For instance, NBA 2k7 has a ton of things like emails or an apartment, and lots of screens, but a good number of them don't add anything that isn't better viewed elsewhere. Same with Madden.

Whereas Head Coach 09 they took the messaging system and basically built the entire GUI around it (and in my opinion is reasonably successful, going through offseason is simplified and you can blow off messages you don't care about and get notifications on agents you do... although it could probably be further improved).

So what features aid the immersion, and maybe which get in the way.

-----

FOF trading compared to equivalent releases of say Madden at the time (2001-2002 was my major FOF days) was a marvel to me. The whole player management system felt a lot more control and I could actually make a trade in the interface, even if it could be gamed once you knew some tricks. But maybe I like the mechanism of how it worked more so than the actual performance (trading seemed so much clunkier in other games).

[Honolulu_Blue]

What makes FM immersive though?


While I can't answer this for CW, what does it for me is the fact that, somehow, in FM I always feel like I am coaching/managing real players as opposed to a collection of attributes. Sure, some games have tried to give players "personalities" by making them harder to negotiate contracts with or labelling them as certain type (i.e., NFL headcoach), but I have never played a sports sim in which so many individual players have personalities that actually affect how you run and manage your team.

[albionmoonlight]

FOF: Simple interface. Love that I can just see the numbers and let my imagination provide the bells and whistles.

Tecmo Super Bowl: Perfect balance of "realistic enough to sim football but not so realistic that you get hung up on what it does wrong" I don't know if you could make a game like it today that did not feel too cartoonish.

Super Mario Galaxy: Great use of the Wiimote. At no point did I feel like "they just stuck this in b/c they had the controller." At the same time, the game would not have felt the same with a normal controller.

[Marc Vaughan]

What makes FM immersive though?

I don't think any one thing is what makes FM immersive imho, its a combination of things - all of which are equally important imho and contribute a little towards the whole.

(that and the subliminal messages which pop up as you change between screens help ;) )

[gstelmack]

FBCB - best scouting / rating system of any text sim I've ever played, hands down. Exact current 0-100 ratings, letter grades for rough future potential, and based on training / experience may never reach / may exceed those potentials. Potentials prone to large error based on scout skill until the player is recruited, on your roster, and you get a close look. Will everyone else please just steal this and be done with it?

[PackerFanatic]

Super Mario Galaxy: At the same time, the game would not have felt the same with a normal controller.

I think that was the biggest draw of it - it was definitely a pure-Wii Mario game (I suppose Super Paper Mario could be considered that too, but it could have still been a fun game without the waggle aspect) and it benefited from the system.

[Coffee Warlord]

I don't think any one thing is what makes FM immersive imho, its a combination of things - all of which are equally important imho and contribute a little towards the whole.

(that and the subliminal messages which pop up as you change between screens help ;) )

I knew there was a reason I kept my tinfoil hat on while playing!

[Coffee Warlord]

What makes FM immersive though?

Marc hit it on the head when he said it was a combo of things. It really is.

You play the game, and you just feel like there's a world going on. News, rumors, events, bitchy asshole players who want way more money than my board will allow (I'm *totally* not dealing with that right now, nope not at all) shit just happens, and it adds up to a living world.

[Malificent]

The Witcher did a fantastic job both of:

1) Creating the illusion of choice - even if all your choices didn't matter, it felt like they did

2) Choices that did matter...but not right away - A lot of choices did matter, but you didn't know what effect that they would have until long past the point where you made them, keeping you from doing the "Save and Check consequences" thing that so many RPGs are prone to.

[Surtt]

Mount & Blade

I think the whole horse riding thing was done very well.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Freedom Force - I thought they really captured the whole '60's comic book feel with the characters, dialogue, plots, etc. I also thought they did a great job depicting super hero "fights". The ability to have your stronger heroes actually pick up and throw cars and manholes as weapons or tear down light poles and swing them like baseball bats was too much fun.

Gears of War: The use of cover in a fire fight.

[Karlifornia]

BioShock: Many things. Music....never thought I'd be creeped out by Cole Porter. Voice acting, as mentioned upthread, was phenomenal.

[Raiders Army]

Starcraft: Really balanced the three races well and is a very worthy successor to Warcraft.

[Sweed]

What makes FM immersive though?




While I can't answer this for CW, what does it for me is the fact that, somehow, in FM I always feel like I am coaching/managing real players as opposed to a collection of attributes. Sure, some games have tried to give players "personalities" by making them harder to negotiate contracts with or labelling them as certain type (i.e., NFL headcoach), but I have never played a sports sim in which so many individual players have personalities that actually affect how you run and manage your team.

I don't know how many times I've posted something similar to the bold part (I've always said it's like dealing with real people instead of a bag of computer ratings).

And as CW said there is a world going on around you. News from your league, other leagues both in and out of country, rumors, news stories about you. Other managers (hell just about any "person" in the game) can\will have an opinion of you, not randomly based but based on how you manage your club or interact with media and other "persons" in the game, (wow! think about that for a moment). The owner or board actually make a difference in FM. Hell they may decide to sell your best player out from under you or even the team.

The list just goes on and on.

[Vince, Pt. II]

X-Com: UFO Defense - Not only was the gameplay fantastic, but the atmosphere the game created was incredible. The tension when you were opening the door to the UFO on a night mission was incredible! Are there any aliens alive inside? Are they going to blast me as soon as I open the door? What KIND of aliens are they? Oh crap, I have to run across open field with no cover...and it's a Gas Station! That squaddie is toast! Ok, that's the last of them...wait, it's not over? Where's he hiding!

Resident Evil - The original game did the same thing as X-Com...it really put you in the game. It was eerie as hell opening a door to a new room, because you had no idea what was going to come at you. Or if you had enough bullets. They also did a great job of varying things so that it wasn't always just when you opened the door to the next room that something jumped out at you. I will never forget the first time I walked down the hallway just to the right of the main entrance at the beginning of the game...


albion hit the nail on the head with Tecmo Super Bowl.

[Groundhog]

Mount & Blade

I think the whole horse riding thing was done very well.

The combat engine in Mount & Blade is amazing. The battle AI needs a good deal of work however.

[EagleFan]

Uncharted 2 - Some of the best voice acting that I have seen in a game, makes it feel like you are in a movie as nothing seems forced or awkward; Also, they did a great job of making the game world feel seemless as you don't get to a point and wait for a load screen before you can take another step.

WWSM/FM - I'll echo what others have said, immersion. There is no one thing to point to though as it just seems like each small piece does it's part.

FOF - It's simple with no bells and whistles but that lets my imagination fill in the gaps.

FPS BB Pro 96 - I LOVED the soundtrack!!!!! It provided the perfect atmosphere for that game. It also did just enough right that it made me feel like I had a team of players instead of a team of computer animated ratings.

MLB: The Show - It has captured baseball like no other game since High Heat (2000 I believe was the best one, if I am remembering correctly). I am still not sold on the batting interface (or I just suck at it and don't have the patience) but pitching really feels right, like you have to think a pitch or two ahead and have a plan. On the batting side, the CPU piutchers seem to "understand" pitching and will expose your weaknesses.

College Hoops 2Kx - Captures the atmosphere of an actual college game, right down to the ebbs and flows of the momentum

Earl Weaver Baseball - You could make your own ballpark.... your own ballpark!!!!

NHL 10 - Have come as close as I can remmber to recreating actual hockey

[AgustusM]

Head Coach 09 - The NFL draft. I found the scouting process, the draft itself all very enjoyable. I actually go pick by pick for all picks, all 7 rounds every year. Never done that in any of the other NFL sims I have played, which is pretty much all of them.

Currently I am pretty immersed in FM. but a lot of that is how little I understand soccer and all the things that surround it.

OOTP I am a huge OOTP fan and I think the customization options Markus have built in are highly underrated. Still my favorite game of all time.

[SteveMax58]

Metal Gear Solid - When you fight Psycho Mantis and he rattles off things from your memory card (not to mention he forces you to switch to the other controller port)...that was pretty cool. Just a complete mindtrip. Not bad for PS2 (I think it was 2...not positive and too lazy to google it).

[Young Drachma]

NCAA 10: Conference customization was a nice touch, as was the addition of Teambuilder.

SimCity 4: Largely due to a user community, it's one of the best games ever. But mostly because the game was built treating the player as someone with a brain, rather than a mindless drone. Nearly a decade later and there still isn't a city builder sim that's on par with a game that was made ages ago, despite the leaps in technology since. Just a first-class game through and through, even with the bumps it comes equipped with.

[MrDNA]

I agree with the comments about the Show and Bioshock (although I like the Show's hitting mechanism; it's hard to master for sure).

I wanted to add that the atmosphere of the original Silent Hill scared the living crap out of me. Today I cannot imagine being that scared of a video game.

I just finished Batman: Arkham Asylum and I loved the hand-to-hand combat aspect of it. The moves flowed together seemlessly and felt like a well-coreographed fight in a movie rather than random moves triggered by button mashing.

Not a super popular game (I think) but I really enjoyed assembling my team in Gladius and having to decide who to take into a given fight and the general strategic planning of it.

Fun idea for a thread, SportsDino

[Maple Leafs]

Earl Weaver Baseball - Everything
Fixed.

[Big Fo]

Dragon Quest V - This game's story sucked me in like no other, usually I enjoy the battles and character progression parts of RPGs more than the story, plus the feeling of wanting to beat the game like in any other, but in this game I was pissed at the things that had been done to me (playing as the hero) and my family and wanted revenge. To me there was more than just fighting battles and beating the game.

I think part of the extra immersion in FM compared to other sports management sims is due to the nature of soccer where there are leagues in multiple countries, continental competitions, promotion/relegation, and international events like the Gold Cup, Euro Championships, and World Cup. There's just a lot more going on compared to something like the NFL. Even if an NFL sports management sim managed to make the players feel a little more alive like they are in FM it still wouldn't be as immersive for those reasons. One thing that could help would be having a game where the NFL and college football are going on at the same time, being able to watch highlights of college games in the days before the draft or seeing college coaches go to the NFL and vice versa.

Metal Gear Solid - When you fight Psycho Mantis and he rattles off things from your memory card (not to mention he forces you to switch to the other controller port)...that was pretty cool. Just a complete mindtrip. Not bad for PS2 (I think it was 2...not positive and too lazy to google it).

It was a PS1 game, and probably my favorite game on that system. The stuff you mentioned was great, the game asking me if I liked some version of International Superstar Soccer.

I also like the replies that mentioned Super Mario Galaxy and Tecmo Super Bowl, a few other of my all-time favorites.

[Eaglesfan27]

I agree with the comments about the Show and Bioshock (although I like the Show's hitting mechanism; it's hard to master for sure).

I wanted to add that the atmosphere of the original Silent Hill scared the living crap out of me. Today I cannot imagine being that scared of a video game.

I just finished Batman: Arkham Asylum and I loved the hand-to-hand combat aspect of it. The moves flowed together seemlessly and felt like a well-coreographed fight in a movie rather than random moves triggered by button mashing.

Not a super popular game (I think) but I really enjoyed assembling my team in Gladius and having to decide who to take into a given fight and the general strategic planning of it.

Fun idea for a thread, SportsDino

I agree with every one of these points. Gladius was one of my favorite games back when it came out.

[Izulde]

Gladius was one of my favorite games back when it came out.

Same here.

Final Fantasy Tactics - Engrossing story and a flawless Job system that integrated extremely well with the tactical setup.

[RainMaker]

NCAA 10: Conference customization was a nice touch, as was the addition of Teambuilder.
Weren't those back in the game back in like 2002? Wasn't as in-depth but you were able to create schools and mess around with the conferences.

[Marc Vaughan]

The Battle for Wesnoth fantastic game does a lot of stuff perfectly imho:
* User customisable scenario's, including adding new units etc.
* Fantastically simple but effective rule-set making it easy to pick up yet complex to master.
* Units aren't just battle pieces to dispose of, they have names units so they stick in your mind and special characteristics (they can also level up)
* Default scenarios are very well balanced and have strong storylines. History of 'Wesnoth' itself is very enticing and runs through most of the official and unofficial scenarios available.
* Great localisation, especially for a free application (and done more effectively than many 'professional' games imho.
* Its turn based (very few turn based strategy wargames left today so this alone needs mentioning, RTS games aren't my bag and ARENT an improvement over turn based games imho - its like comparing chess to an FPS ..).

[Honolulu Blue]

So many games had so many good ideas. To highlight:

* Pirates! Classic was an intriguing mix of RPG, action, and strategy - one of the few joystick games that I enjoyed playing (it helped that the required moves were mostly simple). It was also the most open-ended game I had played to that point. The start was generally the same in all eras - small boat, small crew - but from there you could go anywhere. I generally like open-endedness in my games.

* Something that's underrated in games and helps to add to my immersion in them is a sense of humor. FOF Classic, TCY, and Inside the Park were the main ones here. When FOF went corporate, it lost most of its humor, though now that Jim is independent again, it's slowly coming back.

* I've mentioned this before, but Omni-Play Basketball was my first introduction to sports career sims. There were some interesting ideas there - like earning points for the team's end-of-season record, using those points on development and/or trades, the pre-game and halftime analysis, and those commercials.

* The text sports career sim really took off in the late 90s with Baseball Mogul, FOF, and OOTP. Each offered their own ideas of how games should be done. Mogul was always quick and reasonably accurate, FOF has the cap and probably the best overall financial model in text sims (for all that says), and OOTP introduced FaceGen and tremendous customizability.

* Imperialism introduced a lot of ideas that I really liked, including:
1) It cut down on most of the micromamagement in 4X games by making building construction and military production centralized.
2) It introduced the concept of being voted the biggest & baddest empire on the planet without actually conquering everyone.
3) Minor nations could be conquered without a single shot being fired, if they liked you enough.
4) The economic model was three-tiered - raw materials, processed goods, and finished goods.
5) The market changed each turn based on actual supply and demand.

* Imperialism II kept most of the good of Imperialism, and moved it to the Age of Discovery - always a magical time for me. Its radical idea was the separation between Old World and New World. New World provinces had many resources that could help you win, but ultimately you had to gain half the Old World provinces, no matter how big or small your New World was.

* Civ Classic was the first game that went from far in the past to the future and made it all work.

[JPhillips]

Civ2 - Modability. This is the first game I remember being modded heavily. I still recall the joy of the fascism mod and feeling like I was playing a whole new game. It was a pain to install, but it opened the door for the Civ mod community.

Fallout3 - Atmosphere. Combat is okay. Acting is okay to poor. Story is average. Atmosphere, though, is so great that it makes the game a must play. I can't recall another game that made me feel more a part of a world that Fallout3.

Europa Universalis - Scope. It's not the game that EU3 is, but it formed the building blocks for all of Paradox's work. The idea of playing any nation during the renaissance from Europe to Asia to Central America was both liberating and overwhelming. It took me forever to figure out how to play, but the sheer volume of gameplay choices keeps me coming back to Paradox products.

Baseball Mogul - Accessibility. How many of us got into text sims at least partially because of the ease of Mogul? It's not the best or the most accurate, but it's still the best way for someone unfamiliar with text management sims to get started. Most will move on to other games eventually, but BBM is the starter home of the genre.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I just finished Batman: Arkham Asylum and I loved the hand-to-hand combat aspect of it. The moves flowed together seemlessly and felt like a well-coreographed fight in a movie rather than random moves triggered by button mashing.

I totally agree with this. I've only played about 3-4 hours through the game, but I thought the hand-to-hand combat was excellent. Every time I thought I had seen it all, Batman pulled out some other awesomely violent move.

I don't think I've ever played a superhero game that really made you feel as much like that particular hero as this game did. From the stealth, to the detective work, to the combat, all of it, really made me feel what it would like to be Batman.

I also loved the fact that you could totally dominate a fight if you did it the "Batman way" - stealth, speed, power, but if you tried to run in and say do it the "Wolverine" or "Hulk" way, you'd get your ass kicked.

[gstelmack]

Just Cause - My favorite open world game, as it was a mix of cities, jungle terrain, and mountains, plus you could drive/fly all types of vehicles from cars to boats to helicopters to jet aircraft. Also had good tongue-in-cheek humor.

[Maple Leafs]

* I've mentioned this before, but Omni-Play Basketball was my first introduction to sports career sims. There were some interesting ideas there - like earning points for the team's end-of-season record, using those points on development and/or trades, the pre-game and halftime analysis, and those commercials.

Great game! I started with Omni-Play Hockey and then moved on the basketball later. It was really fun to see a team develop over the years. They also kept career and single-game records -- a simple thing now, but no other game did it back then.

The pre-game and half-time commentary from those old games is still better than most of the modern sports games manage.

[Neon_Chaos]

Football Manager

Here's a post I made in 2008 on FM08... and it's still applicable now.

No other game has ever given me enough grief or ridiculous joy as Football Manager.

In League One, as Brighton and Hove, entering my 4t year as manager. We finally finish the construction of our new 22,000 all-seater. The season comes down to the wire. We basically lose a chance to get immediate promotion by losing to the top two teams in heart-breaking matches.

So we head to the playoffs... and we win away against Sheff Wed, 2-1. During the aggregate match, they are up 2-1, until my striker Paul Hayes nailed the game-clinching goal via a magnificent run through the entire pitch, dodging about 3 guys, and faking the keeper out with a beautiful curling shot at the 93rd minute.

Needless to say, I was fist-pumping like a madman, screaming obscenities at the hapless computer manager. Take that, chumsuckers!

The fact that Hayes scored a hat-trick during our 4-0 win against Millwall in the Final, which meant we were getting promoted, was just icing on the cake.

[Abe Sargent]

Morrowind - Virtually perfect at creating it's own unique fantasy world that is wholly fantasy, and yet completely unlike other fantasy worlds.

Heroes of Might and Magic II - Whoever came up with the idea of having opera as a soundtrack for a game should get a platinum star.

Tropico No sim or strategy game has ever exuded as much flavor as Tropico.

[lcjjdnh]

A few more things about FBCB that I don't think have been mentioned:

1.) Even though the options for team strategy were very simple, it was clear that your decisions had an impact on how your team played. I didn't need to watch every game because I knew with just a few 0-10 options and the choice of defenses, I had enough control over my team so that they'd play the way I want. It was apparent these decisions made a real difference in the game.
2.) I felt like the pacing of the game was perfect no matter how you like to play a game. If you like to whip through the seasons, it was easy to do so without losing much control thanks to the feature I mentioned above. In terms of that just one-more-turn pull, the amount of time you needed to spend each month recruiting, setting up line-ups, etc. was enough to feel as though each decision you made was meaningful without being overwhelming. However, if you (like Bucc) prefer to play the game slowly, there was enough detail (unlike, say, Baseball Mogul) to keep you entertained game-by-game. It's very rare a game can appeal to both those types of gamers, I think.

[Jughead Spock]

I had a Wii for a while, and there were a couple that really stood out for their use of the remotes -

No More Heroes - The Wii-mote is made for hack and slash. Primitive, but fun, especially blended with the humor of the game.

Resident Evil 4 - I never want to play another shooter again, unless I have a Wii. Pointing and shooting rocks.

Metroid Prime - see above. Pretty cool other uses as well.



Others, non-Wii -

Baldur's Gate - everything

BioShock - all that mentioned above. Amazing immersion and creepiness.

Halo - like BioShock, the music was huge. First time I'd ever experienced a great soundtrack while playing (on XBox with a good sound system).

[Young Drachma]

Weren't those back in the game back in like 2002? Wasn't as in-depth but you were able to create schools and mess around with the conferences.

I don't believe conference customization has EVER been in the game and I've played it religiously for a while. Create-a-team was around and was taken away, but what they followed with is a reflection of times in terms of its depth and such.

But conference customization is new. You could always be invited into a new conference, but...that's different than being able to fiddle with them from the start.

[Young Drachma]

Agree with all of the comments about Baseball Mogul, it's the text sim gateway drug for sure. FPS Baseball was good for what it was, though it wasn't immersive, but maybe because I was a kid and wasn't able to just take a day and play it if I wanted to.

FOF, too. When I discovered that, I just couldn't believe a game like it even existed.

OOTP made Mogul seem like elementary school to me and it's just gotten better, though solo play doesn't hold me like it used to, it's good to know a game like it exists for all of the customization and options, it's well worth the money.

[PackerFanatic]

Metal Gear Solid - When you fight Psycho Mantis and he rattles off things from your memory card (not to mention he forces you to switch to the other controller port)...that was pretty cool. Just a complete mindtrip. Not bad for PS2 (I think it was 2...not positive and too lazy to google it).

Good one! And it was originally for PS1

[Honolulu Blue]

Great game! I started with Omni-Play Hockey and then moved on the basketball later. It was really fun to see a team develop over the years. They also kept career and single-game records -- a simple thing now, but no other game did it back then.

The pre-game and half-time commentary from those old games is still better than most of the modern sports games manage.

I'm surprised that none of the modern text sims do this. It was really simple stuff and immersive (and easily skipped). Does Madden or any of the other joystick games do this?

Anyway, a couple more examples of not-quite-classics getting a few things right in my eyes:

Cutthroats - More than one type of food, sophisticated land battles (at least compared to Pirates! Classic)

Tropico 2 - Best background music in a strategy game.

Gold of the Americas - One of the very few games to deal with slavery (glibly, but the game itself was pretty superficial).

[spleen1015]

I think it is obvious that WoW does something right. I am having a hard time figuring out what that is though. I have never played anything this much and I can't tell you what it is that draws me to the game.

[DataKing]

I think it is obvious that WoW does something right. I am having a hard time figuring out what that is though. I have never played anything this much and I can't tell you what it is that draws me to the game.

I played WoW for a while. I've since moved on to other MMOs, but one of the things that I always liked best about WoW was that it did not take itself too seriously. There's plenty of corny references and humorous bits that would regularly bring a smile to my face while I was playing.

[Bad-example]

Majesty was fun for me. I liked the fantasy setting and the limited control aspect. Spent a lot of hours on that one.

[Abe Sargent]

I'm surprised that none of the modern text sims do this. It was really simple stuff and immersive (and easily skipped). Does Madden or any of the other joystick games do this?

Anyway, a couple more examples of not-quite-classics getting a few things right in my eyes:

Cutthroats - More than one type of food, sophisticated land battles (at least compared to Pirates! Classic)

Tropico 2 - Best background music in a strategy game.

Gold of the Americas - One of the very few games to deal with slavery (glibly, but the game itself was pretty superficial).

On a similar note, Europa Universalis does very well with slavery. It's a trade good, just like copper or cotton, and its value goes up or down based on the number of slave provinces there are, how many cotton, sugar, tobacco and coffee provinces there are. As those increase the values of slaves increases, and vice versa.

[PineTar]

No One Lives Forever - absolutely nailed the tongue in cheek 60's spy vibe

Good stuff from NOLF...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4BDoUx33SU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2PxxbJydBU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eNfuKSZNIk

[SportsDino]

All right, i know I still need to contribute, but lot of cool stuff so far.

Another possible diversion, what are some of the best done characters in a game you have played, and of course the important thing, WHY?!

This of course overlaps a bit with plot of course, but I'm hoping the descriptions of the characters might lead to some differences from just a well written story character (and of course probably many similarities, good writing being a bonus in any situation I thinks).

If anyone is wondering, the ulterior motives of this thread:
- Understand what has made some games great not by specific example, but seeing what sort of things in general seem to trigger an interesting response (for instance it seems that INTUITIVENESS ranks very highly, perhaps even more than raw innovation by itself).

- Find some great games I probably missed, I'm a gaming junkie.

- Estimate whether my own hobby project game is living up to the 'done it right' standards i'm soaking in from this thread.

[path12]

I agree with many of the impressions already given (especially Imperialism 2, that still gets fired up a couple times per year), but one game I haven't seen mentioned is Master of Magic. I loved the huge variety of options available via spellbooks and traits and enjoyed exploring the map and clearing lairs and magic nodes like no other game.

The AI is pretty brain dead, but it is still a blast to just explore and then rampage.

[Izulde]

All right, i know I still need to contribute, but lot of cool stuff so far.

Another possible diversion, what are some of the best done characters in a game you have played, and of course the important thing, WHY?!

The best characters, whether video game, prose, television, film, etc. all have one element in common - they create a sense of emotional investment in the consumer of that character and his/her story. They don't have to love them, don't even have to like them. Hate's a form of investment too, after all.

Video game characters share in common with literature that much of what is revealed about them is through text. However, VGC also are, like film and television, composed of a visual representation that also influences how players perceive and interpret them.

So in essence, you'll need to have both if you want to make character a central focus of a video game.

There's the obvious, such as having relevant details of a character's background and appearance in mind. Not only does a background help you to understand where the character comes from and how it influences their interaction with other characters and events in the game, but it provides you opportunity for more material in the game itself that could be revealed through, say, a sidequest or something.

But the majority of a character's revelation in video games comes through dialogue. If you don't have an ear for dialogue, forget about making character a key part of a video game. This is the biggest problem I have with a lot of anime. Much of it is terribly written tweener type dialogue riddled with cliches and forced humor references that create, at absolute best, a thin veneer of two-dimensionality that's really just a one note when all is said and done. Note: Several of Atlus's games suffer from this. Disgaea, we're looking at you.

Dialogue should match character, situation and setting. While there's nothing wrong with the occasional anachronistic comic character, too many are irritating. An example of excellent dialogue matching character, situation and setting is Kyle Hyde in Hotel Dusk: Room 215. At first glance, the dialogue is plain and cliched, for both Kyle and many of the other other characters. This would be bad in normal circumstances. But in this case, these are characters who do not have the education for a higher level, more varied speech, so it's appropriate and Hyde, as a former cop, would be aware of this and so tone down his level of dialogue to fit with it (Incidentally, another character -is- more elevated and educated and his contrast to the rest of the characters in the game is striking).

The sparse dialogue also works with the artwork of the game to inspire the mood of noir literature and film, a tradition it's clearly working in, and that atmosphere also influences the player's response and reaction to it.

I could ramble on more if you like, but I think I've said enough for now... and probably sound like a pompous ass on top of it. :)

[Bobble]

I wouldn't call the FM/CM series "immersion" as much as sports management (which I know is sort of a poor term). You're managing all important aspects of believable "players" while feeling you can influence in-game performance as well as the team's progression. OOTP is very close but you don't get quite the same in-game control, especially with the in-game control you have in FM2010.

I was going to put down FM/CM as more addiction but he CIV series is the best example I've seen of this (barring Civ III, I guess). It's one-more-turn-ism at it's best. I have honestly told myself I would just do one more turn or so for about 4 straight hours -- on more than one occassion.

I'd throw Morrowind out as best one I can think of for immersion. You were wandering around a world freely in the skin of your character. You weren't stuck on the plot railroad tracks of most games. You weren't looking top-down or isometrically at your guy. You saw the world as he would have. There was an amount of meta-gaming but it was very easy to avoid that.

If not Morrowind, I'd throw out Mafia for immersion. It was a game that wasn't a shooter. It wasn't a driving game. It was an adventure game. They absolutely nailed the period feel.

Honorable mention for ambiance would be the Fallout series, No One Lives Forever, and probably a bunch of others I'm forgetting.

For tactical strategy, I like Steel Panthers (plus it's free). For grand strategy, I don't think anyone's nailed it yet.

I know I'm kind of mixing genres of games with aspects of games. Someone ought to come up with a list and we all submit candidates.

[RainMaker]

College Hoops 2K Series - I really think this was the first sports series that focused a lot on little details of a dynasty/franchise mode. I really got into everything involved in it. There is really no game I can think of on the console that comes close to matching the detail and sophistication this series had when it came to that mode.

The Show - Really the first game I can think of that just nailed the "Be a Pro" style mode well. Really made you feel like you were working your way up through the minors and having to compete for positions. Loved the minor league teams being in it and even keeping track of standings/playoffs in that. Seems a lot of other sports games are taking their queue from them.

GTA: San Andreas - I loved the 3 city setup with each one being unique (Wasn't their a Castro district in the San Francisco remake?). Enjoyed having to travel through the country to get to each city and it just made the game feel massive. It also did a nice job of recreating the cities for that generation and getting some of the historical stuff down. While I know Vice City aimed at Miami, it didn't really seem to nail the city right. This game did and was an absolute blast to play. I also liked that you had more options for transportation including a jet pack and jumbo airliner with parachute. My favorite GTA by a mile and was disappointed that Liberty City didn't take us outside the city at all or give us some better transportation options.

Bioshock - Thought they really handled the story mode well and made you feel as if you were playing a movie. The voice acting and music that would chime in at perfect times really made it immersive.

GTA Series - Now there may have been a game to do this before, but the open sandbox environment was a nice addition to gaming. Not being tied into storylines and being able to enjoy the game by just going around and causing havoc.

[DaddyTorgo]

i should bust out GTA more often

[DaddyTorgo]

FM absolutely wins hands-down for "one more turn-ism" IMHO. There have been times I've said at 2am "okay I gotta go to bed" and at 5am i'm still sitting there saying "man i really gotta go to bed."

[Honolulu Blue]

what are some of the best done characters in a game you have played, and of course the important thing, WHY?!

It depends on what you mean by "character". Let me give you a few examples:

* In many of the sports career text sims I've played, there have been players that have caught my attention, either because I designed them that way (John Christopher, El Loco) or they came up naturally (The Devastator, That Idiot, Sweet Cheater). I can still see John cutting off a sure base hit up the middle and gliding and easy throw to first, can see El Loco throwing a 3-2 knuckler that dances on the inside corner, can see The Devastator making tackle after tackle, see That Idiot getting burned time after time, and see Sweet Cheater making her move down the stretch. Can't you? It helps to write dynasty reports, but I've always had an active imagination.

* A more traditional example of character, perhaps, is the King in Colonization Classic. Here's a typical mid-game message:

"In honor of my 14th wife, I have decided to raise your tax rate to 42%. You may kiss my pinky ring."

The King is what you'd think a 16-18th Century king would look like - fat, ugly, haughtily smirking. I hated him, and looked forward to seeing his snippy message in defeat (I won't spoil it for both of you who care and don't know).

For some reason, I can't remember typical characters in RPGs and other such games as well.

[Silver Owl]

A game I haven't seen mentioned is Tony LaRussa Baseball. I learned tons of stats for the historical players. This was probably my favorite game of all time.

[Alan T]

A game I haven't seen mentioned is Tony LaRussa Baseball. I learned tons of stats for the historical players. This was probably my favorite game of all time.


That might be the game that honestly got me into sport simulation games on the computer. I had Earl Weaver Baseball before that on my Tandy, but the Tandy was shared between the family so I didn't have enough time on it to really dig in. I pretty much did the board game strat-o-matic before Tony Larussa. Never been able to go back since then.

[DaddyTorgo]

Earl Weaver was so great. I spent so many young hours on that game too...I can't even begin to tell you.

[RainMaker]

I'd add Tecmo Super Bowl and Baseball Stars as the first major sports games that tracked statistics and had seasons.

[Bisbo]

The original Colonization - it really captured the nature of the relationship between the colonists and the natives, and the colonists and the Old World, in a very interesting and authentic way.

Alpha Centauri gave very diverse factions and a living world that was fascinating. I also thought the AI was top notch for solo play. I always felt that I had lived a story rather than completed a 'game' each time I played.

Deus Ex was a great RPG that focused on psychological issues in a very interesting way.

Dominion II was a great, complex strategy game based on religious domination. Although the graphics were as basic as they come, the game presented lots of challenges in a unique context.

[sterlingice]

(Holy Thread Necromancy, Batman!)

* I've mentioned this before, but Omni-Play Basketball was my first introduction to sports career sims. There were some interesting ideas there - like earning points for the team's end-of-season record, using those points on development and/or trades, the pre-game and halftime analysis, and those commercials.

I only have played in one multiplayer league but I imagine with the sim crowd, this mentality is present. Hell, it's present in the NBA and MLB, to a pretty solid extent. Basically, a team is in one of two modes: "win now" or "tank and rebuild". In the one league I was in, it was even more extreme- basically you gut everything that has any value for future value (even if it's trading your SP4 for a guy with a future ceiling of SP4 because you want it later and not now) and have quite a few really awful teams.

With no fans or any real downside, there is no incentive to actually try to win games. I imagine this is even more frustrating in a football sim where in the NFL, aside from maybe week 17 and the occasional "suck for Luck" situation it is really rare that teams tank. They have to maintain a number near the cap and even in, say, week 13, a 3-8 team will still be trying to beat a 9-2 team even if it will hurt the draft position for next year.

I think a mechanic like this, where there is some emphasis placed on winning and development to counteract the desire to tank is great. It provides a great incentive in a multi-player league to do more than just tank and rush the game runner to blitz through a couple of seasons until an owner can bottom out and try to get good again while allowing the teams that are doing well to savor their victories.

SI

[sterlingice]

All right, i know I still need to contribute, but lot of cool stuff so far.

Another possible diversion, what are some of the best done characters in a game you have played, and of course the important thing, WHY?!

This of course overlaps a bit with plot of course, but I'm hoping the descriptions of the characters might lead to some differences from just a well written story character (and of course probably many similarities, good writing being a bonus in any situation I thinks).

Oh, and SD- hop to it- you've had almost 2 years to respond ;)

I don't really have time but I was going to go into some of the better characters and plots in the Final Fantasy series but I'll disagree with those who use Sephiroth and Cloud (one note characters whose appeal is similar to that of Boba Fett- it's because you know so little about them that they are appealing).

SI

[larrymcg421]

Glad to see all the Omni-Play Basketball mentions. It was my first introduction to the career play/management aspect. I never got into the Hockey version, but they also did Superstar Soccer, which also had career play and was my first introduction to the career play system.

One of the things I didn't like was the cheat protection on all of their games. To prevent people from turning off the computer and starting over if they lost a game, they would give you a Forfeit for any game you did not complete. The problem is a power outage could completely screw you, and this happened a few times to me.

(Holy Thread Necromancy, Batman!)

I only have played in one multiplayer league but I imagine with the sim crowd, this mentality is present. Hell, it's present in the NBA and MLB, to a pretty solid extent. Basically, a team is in one of two modes: "win now" or "tank and rebuild". In the one league I was in, it was even more extreme- basically you gut everything that has any value for future value (even if it's trading your SP4 for a guy with a future ceiling of SP4 because you want it later and not now) and have quite a few really awful teams.

With no fans or any real downside, there is no incentive to actually try to win games. I imagine this is even more frustrating in a football sim where in the NFL, aside from maybe week 17 and the occasional "suck for Luck" situation it is really rare that teams tank. They have to maintain a number near the cap and even in, say, week 13, a 3-8 team will still be trying to beat a 9-2 team even if it will hurt the draft position for next year.

I think a mechanic like this, where there is some emphasis placed on winning and development to counteract the desire to tank is great. It provides a great incentive in a multi-player league to do more than just tank and rush the game runner to blitz through a couple of seasons until an owner can bottom out and try to get good again while allowing the teams that are doing well to savor their victories.

SI

Actually, the points system in Omni-Play did reward tanking. You got more points for having a worse record. I always played it with house rules though and refused to tank even when my team was getting ancient and I needed some points, I would manage to win enough games to screw myself come offseason.

[EagleFan]

Glad to see all the Omni-Play Basketball mentions. It was my first introduction to the career play/management aspect. I never got into the Hockey version, but they also did Superstar Soccer, which also had career play and was my first introduction to the career play system.

One of the things I didn't like was the cheat protection on all of their games. To prevent people from turning off the computer and starting over if they lost a game, they would give you a Forfeit for any game you did not complete. The problem is a power outage could completely screw you, and this happened a few times to me.



Actually, the points system in Omni-Play did reward tanking. You got more points for having a worse record. I always played it with house rules though and refused to tank even when my team was getting ancient and I needed some points, I would manage to win enough games to screw myself come offseason.

The interesting thing about that game is that you could really only have a player that was a scoring leader if you had one good player and the rest were crap. It seemed that once you had all good players the shots would be spread around evenly.

Sorry, that's just one of my big memories about that one. It was the hockey game that I played the most.

[MJ4H]

Donkey Kong Country Returns: level design

[larrymcg421]

The interesting thing about that game is that you could really only have a player that was a scoring leader if you had one good player and the rest were crap. It seemed that once you had all good players the shots would be spread around evenly.

Sorry, that's just one of my big memories about that one. It was the hockey game that I played the most.

Well, the interesting thing about the basketball version is you couldn't control player movements, but you could control the ball. So you had to time it right to give someone the ball when they were open and you could control when they shot. I found it easiest to develop a big Center and feed him inside as much as possible for high percentage shots.

[rjolley]

Ok, now I want to play Omni-Play Basketball again. Is it too old to be playable in any way?

[EagleFan]

Ok, now I want to play Omni-Play Basketball again. Is it too old to be playable in any way?

Probably.

[EagleFan]

Almost forgot about Omni-Play Horse Racing.

[EagleFan]

Download OMNI-PLAY BASKETBALL ABANDONWARE (http://www.myabandonware.com/game/omni-play-basketball-z2)

[Capital]

The Omni-Play and Superstar Games were among the best sports games for the Commodore 64. My favorite 2 werer Superstar Ice Hockey and MISL - the indoor soccer game took the best parts of hockey and made it better.

[EagleFan]

Download EARL WEAVER BASEBALL ABANDONWARE (http://www.myabandonware.com/game/earl-weaver-baseball-n1)

[Capital]

Don't forget about 4th and Inches and Hardball. Not "career" type but stil fun sport games in their time.

[EagleFan]

Download NCAA: ROAD TO THE FINAL FOUR ABANDONWARE (http://www.myabandonware.com/game/ncaa-road-to-the-final-four-180)

[larrymcg421]

Ok, now I want to play Omni-Play Basketball again. Is it too old to be playable in any way?

I haven't found an emulator that will play it on a modern computer. I did a dynasty for it a few years back - C64: Omni-Play Basketball Dynasty - Front Office Football Central (http://operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=46943&highlight=omni-play) - but it fizzled out because it would no longer work on my computer.

That abandonware version is unfortunately the sideview version, which I don't like nearly as much. In that version you control the movements of the Center only, while the rest of the players are independent, although you can demand the ball whenever you want.

[EagleFan]

Download NFL CHALLENGE ABANDONWARE (http://www.myabandonware.com/game/nfl-challenge-68)

[EagleFan]

An Emulator...

D-Fend Reloaded: Overview (http://dfendreloaded.sourceforge.net/index.html)

[EagleFan]

Don't know much about the emulator or the abandonware downloads. Found them doing a search.

[rjolley]

Thanks EF.

[Buccaneer]

Missed this thead previous. Many have already mentioned, so I'll just affirm:
Pirates! Gold - perfect combination of strategy, history, geography, action and rpg
Civ2 - scenarios and events editor
Civ5 - traditional wargame hex-based map with 1upt, and social policies
RRT/RRT2 - resources combination to make a third
pro-based text sims - free agency, trading and drafting
FBCB - everything :)
Imperialism II - what HB said
Impression hsitorical city-builders - simcity in a historical world and context
Mafia 1/2 - linear cinematic masterpiece

[Senator]

I remember playing a game called Majestic.

I actually paid a monthly fee to get a 2am phone call that said my family was in danger.

[Matthean]

Diablo for mastering the hack 'n' slash art form. It also was very good at atmosphere. I remember being so careful in terms of how fast I moved with a character and how much I freaked out the first time I heard "Fresh meat."

Half-Life for it's willingness to be modded. There were mods in games before it, but the modding in HL lead to the most infamous mod ever(IMO). To me it felt like it changed the way games could be developed.

[SportsDino]

I forgot I started this thread.

Some I have thought about recently:

-Skyrim: SCALE. Some of the games I consider all times classics were games I could get lost in. The sheer map size of the open world games and level of detail (even if relatively 'empty') has always encouraged my exploration instincts.

-Fallout: Skill advancement, a game where you can generally do everything if you want, and usually end up being a jack of all trades to some degree, but has distinct gameplay differences and rewards for specialization (if only early in the game in some cases). This was lost a bit by the time Fallout 3 rolled around in my opinion.

-Minecraft: Not so much the crafting itself as the dynamic nature of the world. It keeps growing, doesn't feel static.

[RainMaker]

Skyrim - The different ways you can play. You can literally build all sorts of characters that can succeed with their own unique styles of play. And each style of play is worthy of a new playthrough in my opinion. It's one of the first games I can remember where you can play so vastly different from another person and still be able to accomplish what you want.

[thesloppy]

The way that you could recruit/build a squad of your own design (and in particular: names), is something that nobody has ever been able to do as well as X-Com, for me personally. X-Com managed to capture that perfect balance where they were disposable enough that you could let squad members die, in the name of progress, but I sure felt horrible about it.

[MizzouRah]

NHL 12 - this is the first sports game I really "dug in" and adjust sliders to my liking and I'm having a blast in my BAGM dynasty - the game just feels like I'm watching a hockey game, it lacks a bit in presentation, but I'd probably skip most of it anyway to get to the action - and what I desire morst, the fast pace and chaotic gameplay of hockey is represented really well in this years game. I play at least one game every night before bed.

Wasteland - I never really could get into Fallout, but Wasteland was a whole different story for me, what an excellent game on the C64 probably the first RPG that I finished in very little time.

OOTP - I never thought something like facegen could add so much to a text sim, what a cool addition.

[QuikSand]

An Emulator...

D-Fend Reloaded: Overview (http://dfendreloaded.sourceforge.net/index.html)

Sorry for the diversion... but this sounds like it might enable me to load up the old FBPro game(s) and give them a re-whirl. Anyone have any insight there? In my mind, that sounds like an awesome memory lane trip, never have been able to find the toolbox I'd need to get my newer computer(s) to run older programs.

[QuikSand]

FBCB - everything :)

I'll offer a sort of echo here. It is not my favorite game, but that's mostly because it revolves around things that don't really interest me that much.

However, FBCB is as good as any game I have ever seen in understanding what its users want, and delivering it efficiently and effectively. It's remarkably close to being a perfect game for what it sets out to do, and there's an awful lot to be said for that, regardless of how grand your scope ends up being.

[cthomer5000]

Download NFL CHALLENGE ABANDONWARE (http://www.myabandonware.com/game/nfl-challenge-68)

Glad i stumbled into this thread. I was thinking long and hard the other night, trying to recall the name of the Xs and Os perspective NFL game i used to play at my friend's house as a kid. NFL Challenge is it!

[lighthousekeeper]

+1 on the omni play basketball. awesome game for its time. i loved the announcer's schitck.

i finally sold my copy of omni play basketball just a few months ago (along with omni play soccer and hockey and about 50 other C64 games). amazingly, after sitting idle in various places over the past 20 years, the game still worked.

[MJ4H]

Glad i stumbled into this thread. I was thinking long and hard the other night, trying to recall the name of the Xs and Os perspective NFL game i used to play at my friend's house as a kid. NFL Challenge is it!

Really wish a career simulation would implement something like that. Of course, I say that, but it would probably mean the end of my life. I'd probably forget to eat.

[Buccaneer]

I concur with Quiksand regarding FBCB. I perceive that it has a higher percentage of those not a fan of real-life basketball playing the game, as oppose to games of other sports.

[Autumn]

Fun thread, even if it's old.

Joe Montana Football - the ability to design your own plays was so much fun here. I spent a lot of hours back then crafting my own offense and play sets, and it really felt like you could mold the kind of team you had. I was playing the '90 giants and was able to create power running plays, passes taking advantage of Megget out of the backfield. A bunch of us used to play it and our teams were very distinct personalities.

Police Quest - Even though this game was the same every time you played it, I played it over and over. The way you had to pay attention to routine details like inspecting your car, not running lights without your sirens on, etc, added to the immersion. And I loved the feeling of having a whole city at your feet, as you drove around looking for traffic offenders or looking for your buddy to meet for a donut. I think it had just the right amount of monotony to make it feel real -- that speeding car didn't show up the instant you started driving around, it took long enough that it felt real. I've said before several times it's an outrage there's not a modern game like this.

Maniac Mansion - this game had such a unique setting. In some ways it was a conventional "find something and use it somewhere else" game, but the fact that everything was so odd kept it from feeling formulaic. Also the way you would get cut scenes of things happening in the house progressing the plot elsewhere, and giving you clues, really made it much more fun.

You can see how long it's been since I've played video games probably ...

[Passacaglia]

I loved Joe Montana Football, too. I had a challenge where I set every player's rating to 2 and seeing how well I could do.

[Yellow5]

- Grand Theft Auto 3: San Andreas:
I love that you can seamlessly travel across a massive three city gameworld, the wide open environment and artwork involved, in itself is a major draw of the game.


RockStar captured the feeling of the 90's atmosphere perfect with this game. The style and music were spot on.

- Unreal Tournament

First person multiplayer shooting at it's best. Fast paced, unique weapons that felt right, and excellent maps. The bot AI was great, programmed by Steve Polge from Quake Reaper Bot fame.

Epic have not been able to repeat the experience since the original.

[Groundhog]

Mass Effect 2 - Took everything about ME1 that was tedious and removed it, creating an incredibly streamlined product that I keep meaning to play through again.

NBA 2K? - Whichever was the first year that introduced the individual shooting animations, 2K9?

CH2K8 - Just about everything. All this title needs is updated graphics, better player progression, and NBA 2K style plays/movement, and it would be the greatest sports title ever made.

FBCB2 -I'll echo the others here, except to say that it probably is my favourite game of all time. No other game has had as much play from me.

[Dutch]

I concur with Quiksand regarding FBCB. I perceive that it has a higher percentage of those not a fan of real-life basketball playing the game, as oppose to games of other sports.

Yup, I played FBCB for a long time even though I've never been much of a fan of any basketball outside of the Final 64 tourney and the occassional NBA Team/Player of the Week interest story.

[CrimsonFox]

Unreal - Positively perfect level design. great music cues at the right time. Beautiful way it unrolled this epic world and plot before you all in a shooter.

Fallout 3 - The radio really was its own reward as the DJ talks about all the things you did (whether good or bad) it's like throwing me another bone and patting me on the head. That really worked and made me feel like part of the world.

Thief and Thief 2- The way it used sound was unique and really matched the gameplay. The way you could overhear conversations, judge where guards were by their footsteps and voices. The sneak and lockpick areas really added to the tension of the game. Loved the mission based system yet it was a total sandbox how you did it. And the way it started from simple concepts to unravel the big plot of god vs god was wonderful. It also created monsters that scared me like no other game. They really knew how to create fear with their zombies and haunts. It was about atmosphere and isolation... You're on your own...and that's a good and bad thing.

[CrimsonFox]

why hasn't HeavyReign mentioned Heavy Rain yet? :)

[Vince, Pt. II]

The original Max Payne game's version of Bullet Time was pretty phenomenal. Click a button and you're suddenly a gunslinger out of legend shooting in real time while everything around you moves in slow motion. It was pretty awesome.

[Barkeep49]

Bastion to me did an absolutely brilliant job of getting me to care about its story. The narrator was just a fantastic game mechanism.

[corbes]

On some level all I've ever wanted out of a baseball game was Earl Weaver Baseball with a solid career sim tacked onto it, and the same for NFL Challenge. I played those games ENDLESSLY as a kid. With that said those games don't quite hold up the way they do in my memory, but, still . . .

. . . On another level, I don't know that any computer game will ever be as immersive as the imaginary sports leagues I created in my head, played endlessly in the living room and yard and driveway, and managed on paper. It's probably fools gold to chase childhood like that.

[Buccaneer]

On some level all I've ever wanted out of a baseball game was Earl Weaver Baseball with a solid career sim tacked onto it, and the same for NFL Challenge. I played those games ENDLESSLY as a kid. With that said those games don't quite hold up the way they do in my memory, but, still . . .

. . . On another level, I don't know that any computer game will ever be as immersive as the imaginary sports leagues I created in my head, played endlessly in the living room and yard and driveway, and managed on paper. It's probably fools gold to chase childhood like that.

Yeah, me too. Especially back in the day of pre-PC, pre-internet, pre-cable and 4 TV stations.

[Abe Sargent]

Since we necro'd the hell out of this how about:


Guild Wars Not only for getting the economic model right for an MMORPG but also for having classes in a traditional fantasy setting that feel very different than normal fighters, rangers, clerics and wizards (although they have those too). Mesmer, Dervish, Paragon and especially freakin' Ritualists are just so different than most other classes. I mean come on, holding the ashes of dead heroes? What other class has that as an ability?


Roller Coaster Tycoon - For understanding how massively fun the basic idea of building a theme park was, and not making it nearly as complex as some other Chris Sawyer games and thus becoming the game that perfects the Tycoon genre.


Ultima Online - For not only having different mechanics than normal (no XP? No Levels?), but also embracing different skills that are just for fun, and not for crafting weapons and armor (carpentry? cooking? fishing? tailoring? cartography? mining? lumberjacking?) I wish other earlier MMORPGs tried to differentiate themselves from the traditional RPG genres as much as UO had.

[SportsDino]

I'd have to second Roller Coaster Tycoon, overall simple game mechanics, but probably the most fun I've had with a sim (and I normally push for detailed simulations). A couple things I remember about it:

1. The ant farm effect... individual simlings were not particularly interesting, but I could spend half a minute just watching crowd migration within my park. Seeing all the people scurrying in as I open a new ride of 'land' was half the fun.

2. Creativity and design were encouraged by players, it wasn't a sim about stuffing as many units in an area as possible... it was more about building the best theme park in appearance to yourself (unless you actually cared about the missions, I honestly play sandbox mode with a huge park exclusively in RC2).

[MJ4H]

Frozen Synapse - Pretty much everything. Single player campaign is great, multiplayer is handled pretty much perfectly. Interface is very well done, graphics are stylish but pragmatic. Engrossing strategically/tactically. Tense, dramatic, and FUN.

Portal - Innovation and humor. Also streamlined (nothing is extra or feels out of place--very tight package).

Portal 2 - Co-operative play. Never experienced anything in gaming as fun as Portal 2's co-op. And maybe even funnier than the original.

Super Meat Boy/VVVVVV - Frustration/reward-style difficult gameplay. I love that when you die, you are playing again almost instantly. It streamlines the "I've got to practice and learn the intricate details of everything on this level to get it right" part and makes it not tedious but enjoyable. Both of these games are the same in that regard. They both do other things well, too, but the heart of these two games is this element that I enjoy a lot.

[Julio Riddols]

Bastion to me did an absolutely brilliant job of getting me to care about its story. The narrator was just a fantastic game mechanism.

I agree fully on this. One of the most enjoyable to play games that might otherwise be pretty damn mundane. I laughed hard when he said "The kid just decided to rage for a while" when I went on a breaking things spree.

[CrimsonFox]

1. The ant farm effect... individual simlings were not particularly interesting, but I could spend half a minute just watching crowd migration within my park. Seeing all the people scurrying in as I open a new ride of 'land' was half the fun.
.

Not to mention making a ride as DANGEROUS as possible so that it would fly off the pole and crash and explode, killing everybody. Then watching with amazement as people trampled each other to ride it again! :)

[cougarfreak]

For some reason, I love the ball flight animations in Puresim. I've played OOTP more, but I turn the animation off with it.

[lighthousekeeper]

Dragon Age Origins: bang a hot witch storyline

[MizzouRah]

For some reason, I love the ball flight animations in Puresim. I've played OOTP more, but I turn the animation off with it.

I think BM has the best ball flight animations, but Puresim's is 2nd for sure.

[Passacaglia]

No BM animations please

[sterlingice]

Ultima Online - For not only having different mechanics than normal (no XP? No Levels?), but also embracing different skills that are just for fun, and not for crafting weapons and armor (carpentry? cooking? fishing? tailoring? cartography? mining? lumberjacking?) I wish other earlier MMORPGs tried to differentiate themselves from the traditional RPG genres as much as UO had.

Wasn't UO pretty much the first major MMORPG? I played on a friend's account and I basically played a traveler. I mined and refined ore and sold it. And then I used those proceeds to make and buy runes. And then I basically sold runes to pretty much anywhere anyone wanted to go, all while exploring the world. I'm trying to think of another game where you could pretty much avoid combat (well, you couldn't because of the ahole nerfers and a lack of a pvp switch) and still "level" skills in the game and have fun.

SI

[cody8200]

Chronotrigger - A fantastic story that really got me interested in RPG's for the first time.
Vampire: The Masquerade - Just finished playing this one again and the story is fantastic. Deus Ex - Did absolutely everything right. The first game gave you the stealth ability of Thief and the killing ability of Half Life and a story straight out of X Files. Wow that game was good.
Grand Theft Auto 3/VC/SA/4 - This series really established the open world 3D movement that many games try to emulate. Very few do it as well though.
Skyrim - I love using stealth and bow and arrow. I don't think I have ever had a memorable bow and arrow experience before Skyrim.
Heavy Rain - The story had a meh ending but the setup was phenomenal.
Fallout 3 and Las Vegas - Fallout 3 is absolutely epic in size. That was exciting but along with the futuristic setting and legacy of the Fallout series, this was my looked forward to game in a decade when it arrived. It met my expectations.
Half Life 2 - The timing of the battles/peaceful setting was down masterfully. Everytime you thought, this is getting a bit tiring, the next segment of the game would come along.
Portal 1 and 2 - Wow, Valve does make a damn fine game. From the voice acting to the innovative gameplay, these games were fantastic and memorable.
Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy - Another david cage game -same guy who created heavy rain. This guy knows good stories (at least until the endings) and this game is no exception. Fantastic premise with an interesting control scheme.
The Longest Journey - You want to talk story, this game had it in spades! An amazing game that once was named PC Gamer's game of the year despite its poor graphics. This is an absolute must play - even now. It's followup, Dreamfall was equally fun but not quite as impressive story-wise.

[TroyF]

No One Lives Forever - absolutely nailed the tongue in cheek 60's spy vibe

Good stuff from NOLF...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4BDoUx33SU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2PxxbJydBU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eNfuKSZNIk

I loved this series so freakin much. I wish it would come back. :(

I think everyone really nailed most of mine, with Bioshock nailing just about everything.

I'll add one:

System Shock 2: You felt like what you were supposed to be, the only living human on a ship where really bad things happened. I'll never forget some of the ghost cut scenes. Truly frightening.

[hawk4669]

I'll add one:

System Shock 2: You felt like what you were supposed to be, the only living human on a ship where really bad things happened. I'll never forget some of the ghost cut scenes. Truly frightening.

This.