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Schmidty
01-07-2010, 07:14 PM
I just stumbled on this video, and it's pretty much spot-on regarding its points on the decline of Detroit.

YouTube - Detroit in RUINS! (Crowder goes Ghetto) (http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=1hhJ_49leBw&pop_ads=0#t=16)

RainMaker
01-07-2010, 07:19 PM
Detroit is in shitty shape but having a right-wing group pick some of the worst spots in the city to run video of is a bit deceiving. Like picking a trailer park in Alabama and telling everyone how conservatism is killing the Red states.

Schmidty
01-07-2010, 07:23 PM
Although there are some that say he pulls facts out of his butt, but I still think that what he's fundamentally what he's saying true.

I shouldn't have have opened this door, but I guess it's too late.

RainMaker
01-07-2010, 07:23 PM
He also fails to point out that the Red states are the poorest, unhealthiest, least educated, and highest crime per capita. That if you look at which states take in more than they put in, it's almost all red states. They are the welfare states in this country.

Just find it funny that they are trashing Detroit for the same problems that are hitting most red states.

Schmidty
01-07-2010, 07:25 PM
I also want to say that I'm not a party member at all, and that I agree with a lot of stuff from both sides, but I've watched the state dragged down by Detroit and it's policies (and the unions) for too long to not agree with what he's saying.

M GO BLUE!!!
01-07-2010, 07:26 PM
LOL! Oh my God... this is one of the most short-sighted viewpoints I have ever seen!

Not surprised though, as it's pretty much spot-on typical for extremisism, whether left or right wing.

Good find! LOL!

DaddyTorgo
01-07-2010, 07:27 PM
He also fails to point out that the Red states are the poorest, unhealthiest, least educated, and highest crime per capita. That if you look at which states take in more than they put in, it's almost all red states. They are the welfare states in this country.

Just find it funny that they are trashing Detroit for the same problems that are hitting most red states.

I also find this to be ironic - for all the railing against the welfare state that the conservative politicians do, federal spending is disproportionately beneficial to their states and their constituents - yet it's almost like it's some "dirty little secret." Completely hypocritical.

RainMaker
01-07-2010, 07:28 PM
I just think Detroit's problems are less political and more about the changes in the automotive industry. It's a city that was essentially built on one industry and when that industry changed and took a nosedive, it hurt everyone in it leading to a domino effect.

Schmidty
01-07-2010, 07:31 PM
I changed the title because I didn't want it to sound trollish.

DaddyTorgo
01-07-2010, 07:31 PM
I just think Detroit's problems are less political and more about the changes in the automotive industry. It's a city that was essentially built on one industry and when that industry changed and took a nosedive, it hurt everyone in it leading to a domino effect.

yeah.

M GO BLUE!!!
01-07-2010, 07:51 PM
Dammit Schmidty... I started to write a response detailing the ACTUAL reasons and I found myself typing for 30 minutes and I'm not even up to 1950 yet.

Essentially, Detroit was a city built on a weak foundation. Governmental policies that built suburbia had a detrimental effect on ALL cities, and Detroit having an economy based on one industry fell harder than most.

Now I have to get back to work, as I'm going to be here late doing the work I should have been doing while writing the piece that doesn't make sense to post incomplete!

DeToxRox
01-07-2010, 11:18 PM
I just think Detroit's problems are less political and more about the changes in the automotive industry. It's a city that was essentially built on one industry and when that industry changed and took a nosedive, it hurt everyone in it leading to a domino effect.

It was automotive, but it snowballed into politics in a big way. Detroit might be the mecca when it comes to "don't tell us what to do" politics. They want one of their own to be in charge. Not all, but just enough of the voter to elect Kwame Kilpatrick twice. They had a great mayor in Dennis Archer, but he was considered "white" because he worked on deals with the suburbs, knowing without those people Detroit will never thrive. Kwame came in and sold them a ton of BS about how they can do it on their own and it's just a bigger mess then ever before.

Until the citizens wisen up, it'll forever be a memory.

M GO BLUE!!!
01-07-2010, 11:22 PM
A little bit of what has led Detroit to its current state

Detroit grew too quickly. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but at the end of the 19th century, Detroit was a decent-sized city. Within two decades it was the 4th most populous city in the nation. Downtown blocks that in 1910 were filled with beautiful homes were within 15 years replaced by skyscrapers.

The economy became singularly centered around the auto industry. Previously, Detroit had a diverse employment with manufacturing playing a large part. The automotive explosion brought the growth, but without diversity the economy of the city was slave to the whims of automobile sales. A recession in the nation would be a depression in Detroit. Anything that upset the auto industry would bring development in Detroit to a halt. The rapid development spurned by the auto industry changed the face of Detroit in the 1st decade and ½ of the 20th century.

World War I ended the 1st great development period that created what we know as Detroit. The last project that was approved before the war was the current Public Library & Art Institute. If not for the conversion of much of manufacturing toward the war effort, other projects may have taken hold including Edward Bennett’s 1915 plan for Detroit which would have put in a series of diagonal boulevards that would have eased traffic congestion, that in turn may have eventually curbed the flow of commerce further and further away from the central city as the simple grid pattern does.

After the building boom of the 20’s the stock market crashed in ‘29. Check the development in Detroit. The city’s development pretty much ceased in 1929. The Book Brothers had been planning the world's tallest building (81 stories.) Everything stopped with the Depression, which hit Detroit hard.

WWII helped put the nation out of the Depression. Auto production stopped & Detroit became "The Arsenal of Democracy." Factories that had built Dodges, Chevys & Fords were reconfigured for war production. New factories were built out in the farmland to build airplanes. After the war these factories were converted back to automotive production, including the outlying plane factories.

Redlining was a practice that began with National Housing Act of 1934. Essentially it placed grades on neighborhood that would determine whether the homes would be qualified for mortgages and loans. New homes were preferable to older, so older neighborhoods (as the homes shown in the video) suffered as a result. Even pristine neighborhoods would be considered unsatisfactory for loans if it had an older housing stock, had minority inhabitants or was even near a neighborhood with minorities.

After WWII, the government helped finance the sprawl that created the suburbs through continuing to redline older neighborhoods and newer programs like the G.I. Bill that guaranteed loans for newly constructed homes (of course built in the “good” neighborhoods on the outskirts of the city) and almost annually increasing the subsidizing of suburban road construction. The Federal Aid Highway Act of 1956 upped the federal commitment to 90% of new highway construction costs. This built our current interstate system, but also built the roads to that allowed those homes to be built on former farmland that are now the suburbs.

The policies used as examples in this piece of propaganda were ineffectual answers to the fundamental flaws already tearing the city apart. Detroit’s population peaked in 1950, not 1960 as would be suggested by the video. Blaming Jerome Cavanaugh for Detroit’s undoing is like blaming Coleman Young for the riot (which I have actually heard.)

Cavanaugh had a city that was dealing with increasing social unrest due in part to the “Urban Renewal” policies that were designed to level the ghetto, replacing it with new public housing. The fundamental flaw in their plan was that it was designed to condemn & evict first, then build replacement housing. They didn’t even plan to build enough public housing to replace what they were destroying. Then Cobo shot most of the public housing down. Less than ¼ of those displaced actually made it to what little public housing that was eventually built. Those people had to go somewhere, and they ended up in the older housing stock that was being vacated by those moving further out in the city and beyond.

There are so many things that have been detrimental to Detroit that they can’t all be compiled effectively in a simple post on a message board. Some have been self-destructive, but many have been external. The contention that Detroit is an economic liability to the state is true, but there are areas that are worse. The entire upper peninsula has very little economic benefit, but is still a beautiful place that is an asset. This is no new phenomenon, as 115 years ago Hazen Pingree used to bitch about how anti-Detroit the state legislature was. If the rest of the state didn’t look at Detroit with scorn and contempt, but to how it could be a reborn, shining jewel (it used to be called “The Paris of the Midwest”) it would be a boon to the entire state. As Detroit goes, so goes Michigan.

RainMaker
01-07-2010, 11:58 PM
Nicely put M GO BLUE!!!

Honolulu_Blue
01-08-2010, 08:21 AM
I don't have the time to watch this, but based on the posts describing it, as some who grew up here, works here and works here, I don't think I will since it will inevitably piss me off. I have no time for such nonsense.

Pumpy Tudors
01-08-2010, 10:11 AM
I don't have the time to watch this, but based on the posts describing it, as some who grew up here, works here and works here, I don't think I will since it will inevitably piss me off. I have no time for such nonsense.
Yeah, how can you have time since you're working there and working there? That's a lot of working.

Honolulu_Blue
01-08-2010, 10:16 AM
Yeah, how can you have time since you're working there and working there? That's a lot of working.

Seriously. Given how much I work and how little I am home, it feels that way. A none too subtle Freudian slip there.

Mizzou B-ball fan
04-12-2010, 11:09 AM
Saw this story and thought of this thread. Amazing how quickly Detroit has declined over the last few years.

The game dies at Southwestern High - College Basketball - Rivals.com (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=dw-detroit032310)

Poli
04-12-2010, 11:36 AM
Heh, I may be moving to Detroit due to a job offer by the end of the year.

Mizzou B-ball fan
04-12-2010, 12:26 PM
Heh, I may be moving to Detroit due to a job offer by the end of the year.

Best of luck to you. I wouldn't move my family there for anything less than a 100% pay increase.

Passacaglia
04-12-2010, 12:42 PM
As long as you're not in Detroit proper, you're fine. And housing prices make it so that if your pay's the same, you're practically getting a 100% pay increase. Where's the job, Poli?

JediKooter
04-12-2010, 12:46 PM
Good luck Poli. Is the company Omni Consumer Products?

Poli
04-12-2010, 12:49 PM
Best of luck to you. I wouldn't move my family there for anything less than a 100% pay increase.
50%, edit: and it's just me. A guy I worked for in the Navy has been trying to get me to join him where he's at for about two years now.

Honolulu_Blue
04-12-2010, 12:50 PM
Best of luck to you. I wouldn't move my family there for anything less than a 100% pay increase.

What exactly are you basing that on? Been in the area a lot? Spent any time here?

The city itself, Detroit proper, isn't a great place to raise a family. There are some decent areas, but between the poor city services, the taxes and the horrible public schools it's not a great option.

There are a number of incredibly nice areas in the suburbs around Detroit that easily rival any suburbs you'll find anywhere else in the country. Given the hits in the housing market, there are plenty of good deals to be had as well.

Metro Detroit is actually a great place to raise a family. Let's face it, a suburb is pretty much suburb regardless of the city they surround.

Mizzou B-ball fan
04-12-2010, 12:54 PM
What exactly are you basing that on? Been in the area a lot? Spent any time here?

The city itself, Detroit proper, isn't a great place to raise a family. There are some decent areas, but between the poor city services, the taxes and the horrible public schools it's not a great option.

There are a number of incredibly nice areas in the suburbs around Detroit that easily rival any suburbs you'll find anywhere else in the country. Given the hits in the housing market, there are plenty of good deals to be had as well.

Metro Detroit is actually a great place to raise a family. Let's face it, a suburb is pretty much suburb regardless of the city they surround.

But those subarbs only last so long without an urban core and the businesses that create that job market. Even at the lower prices, it's a risky housing investment at this point. It's a very tentative situation right now and most of it has nothing to do with the violence that was in the article I posted. That's just another facet of the situation.

Honolulu_Blue
04-12-2010, 01:06 PM
But those subarbs only last so long without an urban core and the businesses that create that job market. Even at the lower prices, it's a risky housing investment at this point. It's a very tentative situation right now and most of it has nothing to do with the violence that was in the article I posted. That's just another facet of the situation.

Ah, speculation. Got it.

Mizzou B-ball fan
04-12-2010, 01:12 PM
Ah, speculation. Got it.

Just curious if you don't mind me asking. I'm assuming you live in a Detroit subarb. When did you purchase your home and how much was it? How does that relate to what it's worth now?

flere-imsaho
04-12-2010, 01:26 PM
Suburb, people. With a "u".

:p

Mizzou B-ball fan
04-12-2010, 01:33 PM
Suburb, people. With a "u".

:p

Sorry, the 'u' and the 'a' are right next to each other on my keyboard.

Wait a sec..........

I got nothin'.

flere-imsaho
04-12-2010, 01:43 PM
I'm on to you MBBF: the reason you're mixing up the "u" and the "a" is because you want to type "Subaru" because you own one. And since we know only dirty hippie liberals own Subarus, you've just outed yourself! AHA!

:D

Honolulu_Blue
04-12-2010, 01:57 PM
Just curious if you don't mind me asking. I'm assuming you live in a Detroit subarb. When did you purchase your home and how much was it? How does that relate to what it's worth now?

I wont go into specifics, but I bought my current house in early 2006, before the collapse had even begun, and it's declined in value quite a bit. This is the case for many people's houses in many areas. Yes, Metro Detroit was one of the hardest hit, no doubt, and there is no telling if and/or when the market will bottom out. If I were to do it all over again, I would have done it differently.

If you're worried about investing in a house in a very volatile market, then rent a while and then buy. Plenty of people looking to rent/lease their places because selling is hard.

miked
04-12-2010, 02:12 PM
I don't know much about the city other than what's in the papers, but that guy's voice and most of his shtick were highly annoying.

Mizzou B-ball fan
04-12-2010, 02:28 PM
If you're worried about investing in a house in a very volatile market, then rent a while and then buy. Plenty of people looking to rent/lease their places because selling is hard.

There's definitely some places where I'd buy right now, but Detroit isn't one of them. They've still got some big issues even if a recovery does happen.

Honolulu_Blue
04-12-2010, 02:30 PM
There's definitely some places where I'd buy right now, but Detroit isn't one of them. They've still got some big issues even if a recovery does happen.

The above, which I totally agree with, is just a wee bit different from this:

I wouldn't move my family there for anything less than a 100% pay increase.

Balldog
04-12-2010, 02:40 PM
Best of luck to you. I wouldn't move my family there for anything less than a 100% pay increase.

Moved my family here and we don't regret it one bit. Yeah, our home value has dropped quite a bit but we aren't looking to sell anytime soon anyway. Until you've lived here I don't think you could appreciate it.

Abe Sargent
04-12-2010, 02:41 PM
I like living in Detroit, all you people are silly

Honolulu_Blue
04-12-2010, 02:43 PM
Moved my family here and we don't regret it one bit. Yeah, our home value has dropped quite a bit but we aren't looking to sell anytime soon anyway. Until you've lived here I don't think you could appreciate it.

Glad to hear that. I feel the same way. I took a huge hit on my house, but I don't regret. I love my house and the area I live.

Granted, I know my view isn't objective at all, since I grew up here and part of what's been so nice is being so close to family. My parents, brother and his family, and sister and her family all live within a 15 minute drive. That was a big draw to moving back here that most people don't have.

Abe Sargent
04-12-2010, 02:47 PM
Living in Detroit:

1). Cheap as hell
2). Everything I want in walking distance
3). Downtown is one hour walk or five minute drive away. Canada is an extra ten minutes by car, or you can take a shuttle over.
4). Lots of independant stores that you won't find in the suburbs. Examples include a restaurant that sells just crepes, and a hispanic flavored supermarket with awesome foods and stuff.
5). Tons of things to do that make the suburbs look like science class. Fairs, festivals, music nights, etc.
6). I can get to casinos, games for major sports (all but basketball are in range), jazz clubs, cafes, an independent art theatre, museums, game store, the detroit science center, libraries, tons of restaurants of different styles and tastes, a supermarket, and all of that in fifteen minutes from my apartment without me owning a car.
7). My dentist is ten minute walk away. My doctor is ten minute walk or three minute shuttle ride (for free) away.

EDIT: 8). And the area I live in has a lower crime rate than most suburb cities.

Honolulu_Blue
04-12-2010, 04:56 PM
Huh.

Why, isn't this timely?

Metro Detroit real estate market continues upswing | detnews.com | The Detroit News (http://www.detnews.com/article/20100412/BIZ/4120388/Metro-Detroit-real-estate-market-continues-upswing)

The residential real estate market continued to show brisk improvement in March in Macomb, Oakland and Wayne counties with big jumps in the median sales price as well as the number of sales of homes and condominiums that haven't been foreclosed, according to the monthly data by Realcomp II Ltd.

In Wayne, the median sales price of homes and condos rose 120.3 percent to $33,050, compared with March 2009, the Farmington Hills-based multilisting real estate tracking service reported. In Macomb, it rose 25 percent to $75,000.

And in Oakland County, the median sale price is now $105,000, a 19 percent increase from a year ago.

"In Southeast Michigan, the (housing) recovery is past the bottom and will continue to improve," Robert Taylor, a Bimingham real estate agent and president of the Michigan Association of Realtors, told The News within the past month.

"We went into this mess 18 months before everyone else, and we'll come out of it earlier than anyone else," he said.

Macomb and Oakland also more than doubled the number of non-foreclosure home sales from a year ago. Wayne's non-foreclosure sales improved 84.1 percent

Mizzou B-ball fan
04-12-2010, 05:11 PM
Huh.

Why, isn't this timely?

Metro Detroit real estate market continues upswing | detnews.com | The Detroit News (http://www.detnews.com/article/20100412/BIZ/4120388/Metro-Detroit-real-estate-market-continues-upswing)

The residential real estate market continued to show brisk improvement in March in Macomb, Oakland and Wayne counties with big jumps in the median sales price as well as the number of sales of homes and condominiums that haven't been foreclosed, according to the monthly data by Realcomp II Ltd.

In Wayne, the median sales price of homes and condos rose 120.3 percent to $33,050, compared with March 2009, the Farmington Hills-based multilisting real estate tracking service reported. In Macomb, it rose 25 percent to $75,000.

And in Oakland County, the median sale price is now $105,000, a 19 percent increase from a year ago.

"In Southeast Michigan, the (housing) recovery is past the bottom and will continue to improve," Robert Taylor, a Bimingham real estate agent and president of the Michigan Association of Realtors, told The News within the past month.

"We went into this mess 18 months before everyone else, and we'll come out of it earlier than anyone else," he said.

Macomb and Oakland also more than doubled the number of non-foreclosure home sales from a year ago. Wayne's non-foreclosure sales improved 84.1 percent

While that's good to hear, I have to chuckle a bit when the president of a realtor's organization proclaims all is well. :)

Honolulu_Blue
04-12-2010, 05:14 PM
While that's good to hear, I have to chuckle a bit when the president of a realtor's organization proclaims all is well. :)

1. The numbers are the numbers.

2. And now you know how we feel when you talk about consoles. :)

Wolfpack
04-12-2010, 09:56 PM
Huh.

Why, isn't this timely?

Metro Detroit real estate market continues upswing | detnews.com | The Detroit News (http://www.detnews.com/article/20100412/BIZ/4120388/Metro-Detroit-real-estate-market-continues-upswing)

The residential real estate market continued to show brisk improvement in March in Macomb, Oakland and Wayne counties with big jumps in the median sales price as well as the number of sales of homes and condominiums that haven't been foreclosed, according to the monthly data by Realcomp II Ltd.

In Wayne, the median sales price of homes and condos rose 120.3 percent to $33,050, compared with March 2009, the Farmington Hills-based multilisting real estate tracking service reported. In Macomb, it rose 25 percent to $75,000.

And in Oakland County, the median sale price is now $105,000, a 19 percent increase from a year ago.

"In Southeast Michigan, the (housing) recovery is past the bottom and will continue to improve," Robert Taylor, a Bimingham real estate agent and president of the Michigan Association of Realtors, told The News within the past month.

"We went into this mess 18 months before everyone else, and we'll come out of it earlier than anyone else," he said.

Macomb and Oakland also more than doubled the number of non-foreclosure home sales from a year ago. Wayne's non-foreclosure sales improved 84.1 percent

It's good that values are rising, but those are still ridiculously low average values. However, you are correct that if you can just not get a place in Detroit proper, your property values go up tremendously. Still took me over two years to sell my house in Ann Arbor, though.

It's depressing and a little scary to realize that a once-great city has pretty much been brought to such a low point that even the 1970s and 1980s now seem rather good. There was that brief period of traction under Archer, but Kilpatrick f*ed things up eight ways from Sunday and this recession and the continued destruction of the auto industry may be too much to overcome.

I know there was some talk of (for lack of a better word) "contraction". The city would reduce the land area under its jurisdiction (and thus the amount of service area needed to be covered by the city) by relocating the population into a more dense area around downtown and essentially creating some kind of greenbelt between the city and the suburbs. Is it even a feasible option and even if it were, would the contracted space stay open or would suburban cities/townships think about expanding their reach into those spaces?

DeToxRox
04-12-2010, 10:01 PM
It's good that values are rising, but those are still ridiculously low average values. However, you are correct that if you can just not get a place in Detroit proper, your property values go up tremendously. Still took me over two years to sell my house in Ann Arbor, though.

It's depressing and a little scary to realize that a once-great city has pretty much been brought to such a low point that even the 1970s and 1980s now seem rather good. There was that brief period of traction under Archer, but Kilpatrick f*ed things up eight ways from Sunday and this recession and the continued destruction of the auto industry may be too much to overcome.

I know there was some talk of (for lack of a better word) "contraction". The city would reduce the land area under its jurisdiction (and thus the amount of service area needed to be covered by the city) by relocating the population into a more dense area around downtown and essentially creating some kind of greenbelt between the city and the suburbs. Is it even a feasible option and even if it were, would the contracted space stay open or would suburban cities/townships think about expanding their reach into those spaces?

Dave Bing is trying to forge through with it. It's a radical idea and could help the city flourish again but there is so much to it, I just don't know if it can be done.

I sure as hell hope so though.

Honolulu_Blue
04-13-2010, 08:33 AM
I know there was some talk of (for lack of a better word) "contraction". The city would reduce the land area under its jurisdiction (and thus the amount of service area needed to be covered by the city) by relocating the population into a more dense area around downtown and essentially creating some kind of greenbelt between the city and the suburbs. Is it even a feasible option and even if it were, would the contracted space stay open or would suburban cities/townships think about expanding their reach into those spaces?

Dave Bing is trying to forge through with it. It's a radical idea and could help the city flourish again but there is so much to it, I just don't know if it can be done.

I sure as hell hope so though.

This has actually already begun. Since 1950, the city of Detroit has seen its population drop by over 50%. The population in the city is too spread out and too small of a tax base to provide adequate services. Also, it's very difficult to build communities and small, local "neighborhood centers" with grocery stores and the like when everyone is so spread out.

Bing has already begun bulldozing houses. It's going to be a long, painful process, but contraction is really the only option. As for the empty spaces this will create, the plan, as far as I understand for most of that land, is to turn it into farmland. As good a use as any.

flere-imsaho
04-13-2010, 01:25 PM
2. And now you know how we feel when you talk about consoles. :)

...and politics, specifically polls.

lcjjdnh
04-13-2010, 04:23 PM
A nice post countering some of the common perceptions about the city: The Urbanophile » Blog Archive » The Other Side of Detroit (http://www.urbanophile.com/2010/04/11/the-other-side-of-detroit/)

Matthean
06-06-2010, 07:43 PM
New spin on it with how the middle class black is even moving out.

Black Flight is the New Worry for Detroit - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704292004575230532248715858.html)
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sterlingice
06-06-2010, 08:36 PM
New spin on it with how the middle class black is even moving out.

Black Flight is the New Worry for Detroit - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704292004575230532248715858.html)
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Man, that is just horrible to read. If you're in charge of things in Detroit, how do you even fix that problem?

SI

fantom1979
06-07-2010, 02:36 AM
Cops prowl Detroit for guns | freep.com | Detroit Free Press (http://www.freep.com/article/20100606/NEWS01/6060442/1003/City-cops-on-hunt-for-guns)

It’s a scene that plays out nightly as Sweeney and other members of the Detroit Police Department’s Mobile Strike Force step up efforts to head off crime in the city’s hot spots. Their targets are simple: guns and drugs.

But their methods of finding them — stopping jaywalkers and questioning loiterers — are spurring criticism from some who say police are manufacturing reasons to profile young, black men and violating their rights.

In a city where an average of three people are shot every day, Chief Warren Evans said the only way to combat guns is to get the illegal ones off the street. If that means stopping people breaking minor laws, he said, so be it......

miked
06-07-2010, 09:05 AM
I thought this thread was going to be about OCP.

Matthean
12-19-2010, 04:57 PM
My church in the East Lansing area are helping out two guys plant a church in Detroit. One of the two guys spoke this weekend for a bit at my church and it's rather obvious he has a talent for preaching. He even came to the Sat. service wearing his Lions hoodie and talked about how he is from Detroit and is moving back there since he has such a passion for the city.

Within the list of things he talked about was the house at 1626 W. Boston Blvd. I'll copy the story of the house below. Short version, it's being renovated and the new church can move in one of their families into it on the cheap. My church is going to give the church $10k to help start them up and it sounds like we will do that for the first three years as a way to help them get on their feet. In the sea of bad news about Detroit, it's great to see somebody investing directly into the heart of Detroit and being so passionate about it.

Here's a comment on the story I found while trying to find a copy of the story since it was old enough to where you had to order a reprint of it.


I'm amazed someone would even pay $10,000 for this property. Keep in mind that this house is NOT in prime Boston-Edison, but on the western side of the neighborhood, west of I-75.

This area (West Boston/West Chicago, etc.) may have big homes and wide, leafy boulevards, but it has been a TERRIBLE neighborhood for decades now. It was even bad 40 years ago. The epicenter of the riots was just few blocks south (very easy stroll) from here. I can't imagine how scary it must have been to live here during the days of the riots.

Real estate value is land value, not house value, and I can't imagine how this land has any present worth. Not surprisingly, it was purchased by a suburban church, which is renovating it as a charitable work. I commend them for their community service, but it speaks to the fact that no family would consider such a property.


Said church is the one selling it to the new church. Here's the original story "In One Home, a Mighty City's Rise and Fall." Sorry for the formatting and length, but it's an interesting read.



DETROIT -- On a grassy lot on a quiet block on a graceful
boulevard stands the answer to a perplexing question: Why does
the typical house in Detroit sell for $7,100?

The brick-and-stucco home at 1626 W. Boston Blvd. has watched
almost a century of Detroit's ups and downs, through industrial
brilliance and racial discord, economic decline and financial
collapse. Its owners have played a part in it all. There was the
engineer whose innovation elevated auto makers into kings; the
teacher who watched fellow whites flee to the suburbs; the black
plumber who broke the color barrier; the cop driven out by crime.

The last individual owner was a subprime borrower, who lost the
house when investors foreclosed.

A city that began a slow slide 60 years ago has now entered a
free fall, pushed by the twin crises of housing and cars.
Detroit's population peaked at 1.85 million in the 1950 census.
It is now less than half that. In July, unemployment hit 28.9%,
almost triple the national average.

And the median selling price for a home stood at a paltry $7,100
as of July, according to First American CoreLogic Inc., a real-
estate research firm -- down from $73,000 three years earlier. A
typical house in Cleveland sells for $65,000. One in St. Louis
goes for $120,000.

But, battered and forlorn today, both Detroit and 1626 W. Boston
Blvd. were solid and optimistic 90 years ago.

Truman Newberry: Laying a Foundation
Early in the 20th century, Detroit was the place to make money,
and to Truman H. Newberry, the ground beneath the city's Boston-
Edison neighborhood was the way to make it.

Mr. Newberry, the son of a congressman, was a founding investor
in Packard Motor Car Co., a maker of luxury autos. A portly man
with a pince-nez and bushy moustache, he also dabbled in
politics: In the 1918 race for the U.S. Senate, he defeated
Henry Ford, the founder of Ford Motor Co.

A campaign-spending scandal quickly brought Mr. Newberry's
political career to a halt. But Detroit was growing rapidly --
leaping from the country's 13th most populous city to its fourth
in the first two decades of the 1900s -- and Mr. Newberry and
his brother owned land in an up-and-coming area called Boston-
Edison.

They subdivided it into roomy parcels to accommodate Detroit's
newly prosperous.

Clarence Avery: Industrial Innovator
In 1917, the Newberry brothers sold a lot on West Boston
Boulevard to Clarence and Lura Avery. The covenants required the
Averys to spend at least $5,000 on construction of the new
house, which had to sit 50 feet from the front lot line and be
built of brick, stone or stucco.

Mr. Avery, born in 1882, taught shop to Henry Ford's son, Edsel.
"You have an engineering mind," Edsel told Mr. Avery, according
to the latter's grandson, Avery Greene.

Soon, through his friendship with Edsel, Mr. Avery landed a job
at Ford. He started on a three-month internship at 25 cents an
hour. At the time, Mr. Ford was pushing his men to speed
production of the Model Ts, each of which then took 12½ man-
hours to build. Today, historians credit Mr. Avery, more than
anyone else, for turning Mr. Ford's wishes into a breakthrough
that would change the nature of American industry: the moving
assembly line.

Mr. Avery wandered Ford's Highland Park plant, stop-watch in
hand, learning how the cars were built. He studied meat-packing
plants, where hog carcasses were disassembled on a conveyor. His
team tested its theories by dragging a car chassis across the
factory floor.

The moving assembly line -- on which workers repeated specific
tasks as the vehicles passed by -- cut assembly time for a Model
T by almost 80%, to 2.7 man-hours.

As Ford and Detroit prospered, so did the Averys. Their move
from a small house near the Ford plant to their freshly
constructed home on West Boston Boulevard was a steep climb up
the social ladder. Henry Ford's own starter mansion stood close
by.

The Avery home had four bedrooms and a third-floor suite for the
German maid. There was a butler's pantry off of the kitchen and
a fireplace in the living room. Mrs. Avery set trellises against
the front of the house and hung frilled curtains in the upstairs
windows. Shortly after moving in, she gave birth to Anabel in a
bedroom facing the street.

"I loved that house," says Anabel Avery Baxley, now 91 and
living in Alabama. "I don't think I ever felt quite the same
about a house as I did about that house."

Autos made a number of Detroiters very rich and they yearned for
more exclusive housing. The Averys, too, built a grander home on
a wooded lot in ritzy Palmer Woods.

John Crawford: Pushed Out
In 1924, they rented out, and later sold, 1626 W. Boston Blvd.
to Edsel Ford's personal assistant, John Crawford, and his first
wife, Mary.

Edsel headed a design team trying to add style to Ford
functionality. As part of that, "I had to figure out how or if
the car could be built," Mr. Crawford was quoted as saying in a
1974 Special-Interest Auto magazine article. "Could we form a
sheet of steel to the desired shape? Was the chrome trim
practical?"

Ford was a Machiavellian workplace, where members of one faction
drilled peepholes to spy on their bureaucratic opponents,
according to a book about the era by Thomas E. Bonsall. In this
environment, Mr. Crawford -- who retained the heavy brogue of
his native Scotland -- also served as Edsel's protector,
according to the reminiscences of Bob Gregorie, a Ford designer
at the time.

In the early 1940s as Edsel Ford was dying of cancer, his
enemies ousted Mr. Crawford. Mr. Crawford moved to Massachusetts
and put 1626 W. Boston Blvd. on the market.

By then, the street had slipped a notch in desirability.
Detroit's well-to-do moved to more grandiose housing in Grosse
Pointe and other suburbs, their commutes made possible by the
very automobiles that had made them rich.

Marie Ryan: From White to Black
That allowed people of more modest means, such as Marie E. Ryan,
a single schoolteacher, to aspire to West Boston Boulevard. She
was born in 1894 in Ypsilanti, Mich., a town of 7,000, where in
1900 the average farmer owned 48 sheep and 108 acres.

Ms. Ryan's father was a conductor on the Michigan Central
Railroad, her mother an immigrant from France. Graduating high
school in 1911, she was named "school prophetess" -- a position
she fulfilled by writing a whimsical essay predicting her
classmates' futures. One boy would build a "wireless telegraph
station" on the North Pole, she said; another would woo his love
from a "flying machine." The Rust sisters would end up lion
tamers.

Miss Ryan herself went on to attend Michigan State Normal
College, then spent 35 years teaching music in the Detroit
public schools. She was 48 when she bought 1626 W. Boston Blvd.
in 1942, taking out a $5,000, 20-year mortgage at a fixed 4.5%
interest rate. Her monthly principal-and-interest payments came
to $31.65.

When she moved in, the neighborhood was still fashionable for
whites. That changed during the 23 years she owned the house.

In 1910, blacks accounted for just 1.2% of the total population
of 465,766. By 1960, the percentage had grown to 29% of 1.7
million.

Competition for jobs and homes became acute. The tensions
accelerated the use of real-estate covenants to prevent blacks,
Jews and other minorities from moving in. Between 1940 and 1947,
every new Detroit subdivision barred black residents, says
Thomas Sugrue, a University of Pennsylvania historian.

Some deeds in the Boston-Edison neighborhood had such
restrictions, but not 1626 W. Boston. Early in the century, few
owners in white neighborhoods would have sold to a black family
in any case.

By the 1950s, however, the white exodus to the suburbs was in
full swing, and the neighborhood became a prestigious address
for black doctors and lawyers seeking the large houses, leafy
streets and social status.

In 1965, Miss Ryan, 71 and still single, sold 1626 W. Boston
Blvd. to its first black owners, Herman and Ida Adams.

Adams Family: Blue-Collar Elite
For Mr. and Mrs. Adams, buying the house was a social high-jump.
Mr. Adams had moved north from Georgia just before World War II.
He joined the Army as a cook, but ended up fighting at the
Battle of the Bulge in 1944 and earning a Bronze Star, according
to his son, Bob Adams. After the war, Mr. Adams landed a job
stamping out engine parts for Chrysler.

On the side, Mr. Adams and his two brothers-in-law ran a
plumbing business. One was American Indian and light-skinned
enough to pass for European white. So he wore a suit and
pretended to be the boss to win white customers, while the
darker men, posing as his employees, did the plumbing.

"They couldn't believe that people went for it, but they did,"
recalls Bob Adams.

Mrs. Adams was a prize-winning typist and graduate of all-black
Lewis Business College. She owned beauty shops and worked as a
state unemployment-claims examiner.

The family had been living in a Polish, working-class
neighborhood. Bob Adams recalls his mother getting a phone call
in the 1950s from a real-estate agent who, apparently thinking
the Adamses were white, urged them to sell by warning that
blacks were moving into the neighborhood. "They're coming," the
agent told Mrs. Adams, according to Bob Adams.

The old neighborhood did shift from Polish to black. But, in any
case, Mrs. Adams wanted to move up to Boston-Edison.

"My mother wanted to move over there because she desired to have
a bigger house -- plain and simple," says the couple's daughter,
Veronica Adams, now 49. Mr. and Mrs. Adams borrowed $14,500 to
pay for the home on West Boston.

Veronica loved peering out of her second-floor bedroom window at
the leaves of the American elm in the front yard. When Dutch elm
disease swept down Boston Boulevard, the city nailed a notice to
the tree, marking it for removal. Veronica used her father's
claw hammer to pull the sign down -- several times.

"They can take any other tree in the neighborhood, but they're
not taking my tree," she recalls thinking. Eventually, the city
did cut down the tree.

Ava Tinsley, a black neighbor, played jacks on the Adams' front
porch as a girl. She remembers scraping her hand when the jacks
snagged the rough edges of the red-brown tiles.

Veronica and Bob recall the black doctors on the block,
including one who owned a motor home, a stretch limo, a Corvette
and two Lincolns. Veronica recalls complaints about how the
doctors' families snubbed the auto workers' families.

Mrs. Adams died of lung cancer in 1966, leaving Mr. Adams to
raise the children alone just as manufacturing in Detroit began
its long slide. City factories shed about 130,000 jobs between
the mid-1950s and the late 1960s, according to Prof. Sugrue.

The economic unease contributed to a volatile atmosphere in
1967. On a hot night in July, police raided a "blind pig," an
unlicensed saloon in a black neighborhood, and arrested 85
people. The incident escalated into five days of rioting that
left 43 dead.

Across from the Adams house, young Michelle May, an African-
American, peeked through closed curtains at the looters running
in the street. "If there were any more white or Jewish people,
they got out of here after that," says Ms. May, 46, who still
lives there.

For Mr. Adams, the riots presented a chance to leap the color
barrier at the auto plant where he worked. During the violence,
white workers stayed away from the factory. When a couple of
sinks broke, there was no union pipe-fitter to do the repairs.

"If you give me the wrenches, I'll fix it," Herman Adams told
the plant superintendent, according to Bob Adams.

Later, the boss made sure Mr. Adams made it onto the union
apprenticeship program -- a career path largely closed to blacks
at the time. In 1979, Mr. Adams retired from Chrysler a master
pipe-fitter, one of the blue-collar aristocracy.

But Detroit and the auto industry were declining in tandem. In
1980, Chrysler skated past bankruptcy only through the
intercession of the Carter administration. Struggling to adjust
to consumers' desire for reliable, fuel-efficient cars, car
makers shuttered Detroit factories.

After her father died in 1989, Veronica Adams, then a security
officer with the city water department, lived in the house. She
tired of poor services, high taxes and rising crime. The family
fell behind on property taxes, both Adams children say.

In 1999, an appraiser valued the home at $104,000 and said it
needed $12,000 in repairs to patch the plaster and fix plumbing
in three of the four bathrooms.

David Andrews: 'Such a Steal'
The idea of being urban pioneers appealed to David Andrews, a
young, black Detroit police officer, and his wife, Ruth.
Scouting Boston-Edison for a house in 1999, they spotted
Veronica Adams pounding a for-sale sign into the yard at 1626 W.
Boston.

They closed the deal for $79,900. "It was in some disrepair,"
Mr. Andrews recalls. "But we thought, given the values in the
neighborhood, it was such a steal."

The Andrews turned a blind eye to the vacant house across the
street. They borrowed tens of thousands of dollars for
improvements and to buy a car. They refinished the oak floors.
They replaced the furnace and pipes.

Mr. Andrews, now 42, used the third-floor maid's quarters as his
hideaway. Soon after they moved in, Ms. Andrews, now 40, became
pregnant with their first child.

Starting in the 1990s, American car companies enjoyed a brief
interlude of optimism brought on by low gasoline prices and a
boom in sports-utility vehicles. Detroit, like the nation as a
whole, got caught up in the housing bubble.

The Andrews watched happily as their own house's value rose. But
crime drained their enthusiasm. Three times, thieves broke into
their cars. "When they come into my house, I'm out of here," Mr.
Andrews told a neighbor at the time, they both recall.

Not long afterwards, Mr. Andrews found his house pillaged. The
antique chairs were gone. A trail of his CDs crossed the front
lawn. The couple found a house they wanted on a golf course. But
it took them a year to sell 1626 W. Boston Blvd.

Kimberly Carpenter: Big, Risky Debt Pile
In 2005, they found a buyer, Kimberly Carpenter, willing to pay
their $189,000 asking price. They were too relieved to question
why Ms. Carpenter's closing documents recorded the sales price
as $250,000.

"We were just praying and praying we could sell it so we could
move to the golf course," says Ms. Andrews.

County records show Ms. Carpenter took out simultaneous loans of
$200,000 and $50,000 from First NLC Financial Services, a unit
of Friedman, Billings, Ramsey Group, an Arlington, Va.,
investment bank. First NLC specialized in subprime mortgages --
loans for borrowers with damaged credit.

At the time, Detroit was swept up in the subprime-lending frenzy
that hit much of the country and eventually sparked the
financial crisis and deep recession. Lenders became quick to
loan to high-risk borrowers.

Ms. Carpenter, 37, says she was buying the house on behalf of
her father, Lewis Maxwell, whose own credit record was too
blemished. "My father handled all of that," she says of the
financial details. Her father, who worked on the Chrysler
assembly line, died of cancer in 2007.

David and Ruth Andrews say Ms. Carpenter paid them $189,000.
They say they don't know what happened to the other $61,000
entered into sales records.

"I have no idea about any of that," says Ms. Carpenter. "It's
over. It's out of my head."

Neighbors say nobody maintained or lived in 1626 W. Boston Blvd.
A lawyer for the neighborhood association wrote a letter to Ms.
Carpenter urging her to clean the property.

"Houses that are vacant and/or in obvious disrepair invite
vandalism, theft and stripping, which not only destroys your
property value, but impacts adversely on the neighborhood as a
whole," the letter stated.

American Residential Equities: Foreclosed
Ms. Carpenter quickly fell behind on her payments. In August,
2006, First NLC Financial bundled Ms. Carpenter's first loan
with a pool of other troubled mortgages and sold them to
American Residential Equities, or ARE, a Miami company that
specialized in buying bad loans.

First NLC Financial went into liquidation last January, dragged
down by mortgage losses. Its parent company, FBR Group, became
Arlington Asset Investment Corp. A spokesman for Arlington said
the company can't locate the original files on the Carpenter
loans or comment on the lending decision.

By November 2006, ARE's collection agents were after Ms.
Carpenter for $218,348.53 on the $200,000 mortgage, according to
county documents.

A few months later, ARE foreclosed, and in February 2007 a
deputy sheriff auctioned the property at city hall. No outside
bidder was willing to pay the $170,000 minimum.

In early 2008, Ms. Carpenter filed for bankruptcy protection,
according to court records. ARE, meanwhile, sold the house to
Petra Finance LLC, a private, Miami-based investment firm. In
May 2008, Petra Finance put the house on the market for $75,000.
Unable to find a buyer for almost a year, the company ratcheted
down the asking price to $14,500.

Lisa Johanon: A New Beginning
This past April, the Central Detroit Christian Community
Development Corp., a nonprofit, bought Clarence Avery's house
for $10,000.

One day this summer, Lisa Johanon, the group's executive
director, undid the padlock on John Crawford's boarded-up front
door. Sheets of peeling paint hung from Marie Ryan's kitchen
ceiling. Advertising fliers littered the porch where Veronica
Adams's neighbors played jacks. The glass was missing from the
window on the staircase to David Andrews's third-floor
sanctuary. Kimberly Carpenter's radiators had been stolen.

Usually, Ms. Johanon's charity provides subsidized housing in
the poorest neighborhoods -- where ice-cream cones are sold from
behind bullet-proof glass -- not high-end areas such as Boston-
Edison. But now some 100 out of the 900-odd houses in Boston-
Edison are vacant.

If you can't save 1626 W. Boston Blvd., Ms. Johanon wondered
aloud, what hope is there for the rest of Detroit? Walking
through, she noted the heavily stained carpet and the rickety
back steps, but also the rich woodwork and the clawfoot tub.

She hopes her group can revive the house and find a new family
willing to bet on Detroit. "A minimal spec, I'd say, would be
$30,000 to $35,000, and it would be in pretty good shape," she
said.

—Louise Radnofsky contributed to this article.
Write to Michael M. Phillips at michael.phill... (http://groups.google.com/groups/unlock?_done=/group/alt.california/browse_thread/thread/ce26ab2d29597f52%3Fpli%3D1&msg=046dd1c2c4802758)@wsj.com

Corrections & Amplifications:

John Crawford was married to Mary Crawford when they moved into
the house at 1626 W. Boston Blvd. in Detroit in 1924. Mr.
Crawford continued to live in the home with his second wife,
Minnetta Crawford, after his first wife's death. An earlier
version of this article stated that John and Minnetta Crawford
were already married at the time he took possession of the house.

In addition, in some editions this article was accompanied by
pictures of six of the property's owners: Truman Newberry,
Clarence Avery, Herman Adams, Veronica Adams, and David and Ruth
Andrews. The caption with the six photos incorrectly included
the names of John Crawford and Marie Ryan, who were also
property owners but who weren't pictured.

Passacaglia
12-19-2010, 07:48 PM
2.7 man-hours is insane.