PING: FBCB/basketball fans

[Honolulu Blue]

To make a very long story short, I've fired up this old game again, putting a team as far away from civilization as I dared - Fairbanks, Alaska. The team has improved from a prestige of 5 to 15 under my leadership. And now I have a recruiting dilemma. Two 3* centers, both from Alaska (which pops out a 3* prospect once every 5 years or so), both about the same quality in different ways. And me with only one scholarship to give. Take a look:

RECRUIT DETAILS

#1 C Dennis Waldron
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Height: 6' 9"
Weight: 213
High School: Palmer High School
Hometown: Palmer, AK
GPA: 2.37
Test Score: 940
Rating: ***

Attributes:
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Type INS JPS FTS 3PS HND PAS ORB DRB PSD PRD STL BLK PFS QKN STR JMP STA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current: 5 6 3 8 6 4 6 5 4 5 3 3 5 3 7 4 4
Potential: B C D B C D C A C D F C

Season Stats:
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PTS OREB REB AST TOS A/T STL BLK PFS
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13.6 1.6 6.7 0.9 2.4 0.36 1.0 1.2 3.2

Shooting Averages:
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FGM FGA FG% FTM FTA FT% 3PM 3PA 3P%
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5.8 12.7 .455 1.4 3.1 .459 0.7 2.5 .260

Recruiting Notes:
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Qualified: Yes
Current interest in Fairbanks: Very High
Rankings: West Region #76 Overall, West Region #19 C
High School Awards: None
Top 5 Schools: Kansas, Duke, Fairbanks, Michigan State, Cincinnati


RECRUIT DETAILS

#35 C Louis Kingsbury
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Height: 6' 8"
Weight: 248
High School: Steller Secondary School
Hometown: Anchorage, AK
GPA: 2.78
Test Score: 1190
Rating: ***

Attributes:
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Type INS JPS FTS 3PS HND PAS ORB DRB PSD PRD STL BLK PFS QKN STR JMP STA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current: 10 3 6 2 3 4 3 5 2 5 4 5 2 2 6 5 5
Potential: A D B F F D D A C D D B

Season Stats:
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PTS OREB REB AST TOS A/T STL BLK PFS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12.2 1.4 6.4 1.4 1.8 0.77 1.5 2.3 3.4

Shooting Averages:
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FGM FGA FG% FTM FTA FT% 3PM 3PA 3P%
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5.1 8.3 .614 2.0 4.1 .481 0.0 0.0 .000

Recruiting Notes:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Qualified: Yes
Current interest in Fairbanks: Average
Rankings: West Region #23 C
High School Awards: All-State, Mr. Basketball (Alaska)
Top 5 Schools: Washington, Central Michigan, Fairbanks, Washington State, Northern Iowa


Name Pos Ovl Reg Pos R.Pos AA AS MBB
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Dennis Waldron C 245 76 51 19 No No No
Louis Kingsbury C 338 101 67 23 No Yes Yes

Name Pos GPA SAT Qual High School
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Dennis Waldron C 2.37 940 Yes Palmer High School
Louis Kingsbury C 2.78 1190 Yes Steller Secondary School



For the fun of it, here's my current starting C and his backup:

PLAYER DETAILS

#1 C Joshua Hutcherson - Fairbanks - Sophomore
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Height: 6'11"
Weight: 234
High School: Fremont Senior High School
Hometown: Los Angeles, CA

Attributes:
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Type INS JPS FTS 3PS HND PAS ORB DRB PSD PRD STL BLK PFS QKN STR JMP STA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current: 9 2 4 3 6 2 4 4 3 3 2 7 5 4 7 4 8
2017: 8 2 4 3 5 2 4 3 3 3 2 6 4 4 7 4 8
2016: 8 2 4 3 5 2 4 3 3 3 2 5 3 4 7 3 6
Potential: A F D D C F D C D D D B

Health: Good
Scholarship: Yes
Status: Active Roster
Academics: 41

Stat Averages:
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Season G GS MIN PTS ORE REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2018 26 0 5.4 3.8 0.2 1.0 0.2 0.5 0.50 0.0 0.2 0.9
Career 26 0 5.4 3.8 0.2 1.0 0.2 0.5 0.50 0.0 0.2 0.9

Shooting Averages:
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Season FGM FGA FG% FTM FTA FT% 3PM 3PA 3P% PPS +/-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2018 1.3 2.1 .636 1.1 1.5 .700 0.0 0.0 1.000 1.80 0.04
Career 1.3 2.1 .636 1.1 1.5 .700 0.0 0.0 1.000 1.80 0.04

Stat Totals:
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Season G GS MIN PTS OREB REB AST TO STL BLK PF
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2018 26 0 141 99 6 27 6 12 1 6 23
Career 26 0 141 99 6 27 6 12 1 6 23

Shooting Totals
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Season FGM FGA FTM FTA 3PM 3PA +/-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2018 35 55 28 40 1 1 1
Career 35 55 28 40 1 1 1

Career Highs:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Type Pts OReb Reb Ast Stl Blk TO FGM FGA FTM FTA 3PM 3PA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Season 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Career 15 2 4 1 1 1 2 5 7 6 8 1 1

Awards & Acheivements:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Season Award
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2016 High School: Rated ** and #497 overall by the FBCB scouting service.
2018 Freshman All-Conference (Independent)


PLAYER DETAILS

#21 C Kele Patston - Fairbanks - Freshman
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Height: 6'11"
Weight: 253
High School:
Hometown: Eskdalemuir, UK

Attributes:
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Type INS JPS FTS 3PS HND PAS ORB DRB PSD PRD STL BLK PFS QKN STR JMP STA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current: 3 4 5 0 3 2 6 7 6 3 4 4 2 2 8 5 7
Potential: D C C F D D B A B D C D

Health: Good
Scholarship: Yes
Status: Redshirting
Academics: 34

Stat Averages:
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Season G GS MIN PTS ORE REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Career 0 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 A/T 0.0 0.0 0.0

Shooting Averages:
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Season FGM FGA FG% FTM FTA FT% 3PM 3PA 3P% PPS +/-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Career 0.0 0.0 .000 0.0 0.0 .000 0.0 0.0 .000 0.00 0.00

Stat Totals:
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Season G GS MIN PTS OREB REB AST TO STL BLK PF
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Career 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Shooting Totals
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Season FGM FGA FTM FTA 3PM 3PA +/-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Career 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Career Highs:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Type Pts OReb Reb Ast Stl Blk TO FGM FGA FTM FTA 3PM 3PA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Season 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Career 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Awards & Acheivements:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Season Award
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2018 High School: Rated *** and #350 overall by the FBCB scouting service.


BTW, The graduating senior is a PF.

So... what do you guys think?

[Buccaneer]

I'll run both recruits through my program and let you know soon.

[gstelmack]

Kingsbury. I like that Waldron can hit 3s, but I like that Kingsbury can hit freethrows and block shots. Neither is that great a defender, and both should be okay offensively inside, but Kingsbury is a better offensive player right now.

[Buccaneer]

Kingsbury scored fairly well as an inside man (C/PF) with a normalized score of 53.8, which is not bad. When building a team, I have always emphasized HND and he falls down at that. However, knowing your prestige level, you can get by because he will dominate the inside against like competition.

Waldren, on the other hand, did not score well as an inside player (38.8) but scored reasonably well as an SF (37.1). He got the HND for that position, great 3PS and can help out inside. In other words, much more rounded. I have always loved tall SF but at that level, they don't come up very often.

Wish you could get both but Waldren will be who I would put the money in, not only because of his interest, but he will be a solid player and a good scorer.

[Izulde]

Kingsbury is much more developed on the inside game and his FT shooting ability will let you get major scoring out of him.

Plus, I'm biased to All-State and Mr. Basketballs. :D

[Radii]

Kingsbury has the potential to be a dominant scorer inside, both grab the defensive boards equally well, and I'm just as happy with a shot blocker as a defender, I push for Kingsbury and don't really consider it that close at all, at least for the teams I like to build.

[Honolulu Blue]

Thanks, everyone, who shared your opinions.

I took the "other guy", Waldron. Kingsbury got picked up by Oklahoma State. I could tell a hundred stories about the players and the teams, but let's start with a summary of each guy's careers:

PLAYER DETAILS

#23 C Dennis Waldron - Fairbanks - Senior
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Height: 6'10"
Weight: 233
High School: Palmer High School
Hometown: Palmer, AK

Attributes:
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Type INS JPS FTS 3PS HND PAS ORB DRB PSD PRD STL BLK PFS QKN STR JMP STA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current: 8 7 4 8 5 4 5 7 6 4 4 5 10 3 9 4 7
2023: 8 7 4 8 5 4 5 6 6 4 3 4 9 3 9 4 6
2022: 8 7 4 8 5 4 5 6 5 4 3 4 8 3 8 4 5
2021: 7 7 4 8 4 4 4 6 5 4 3 4 7 3 8 4 4
2020: 7 6 4 8 4 4 4 5 4 3 3 4 6 3 8 4 3
2019: 6 6 4 8 4 4 4 5 4 3 3 3 6 3 7 4 2
Potential: B B D B C D D B C D D C

Health: Good
Scholarship: Yes
Status: Active Roster
Academics: 30

Stat Averages:
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Season G GS MIN PTS ORE REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2021 12 0 5.0 2.6 0.2 1.3 0.2 0.2 1.00 0.0 0.0 0.4
2022 29 0 13.1 3.9 1.0 3.6 1.0 0.7 1.40 0.2 0.1 1.8
2023 29 28 25.7 12.1 1.3 6.3 1.0 1.8 0.56 0.5 0.2 3.0
2024 28 28 26.7 14.5 1.8 7.3 1.2 2.1 0.56 0.6 0.4 3.2
Career 98 56 19.7 9.2 1.2 5.2 0.9 1.4 0.56 0.4 0.2 2.4

Shooting Averages:
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Season FGM FGA FG% FTM FTA FT% 3PM 3PA 3P% PPS +/-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2021 1.1 2.1 .520 0.2 0.6 .286 0.3 0.8 .333 1.24 -1.50
2022 1.4 3.9 .363 0.7 1.3 .513 0.3 1.2 .294 0.99 -2.62
2023 4.4 9.1 .479 2.3 3.9 .598 1.0 2.1 .475 1.32 0.28
2024 5.2 10.7 .488 2.6 4.7 .550 1.5 3.4 .438 1.36 4.21
Career 3.3 7.2 .466 1.6 2.9 .557 0.9 2.0 .420 1.28 0.33

Stat Totals:
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Season G GS MIN PTS OREB REB AST TO STL BLK PF
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2021 12 0 60 31 2 15 2 2 0 0 5
2022 29 0 379 112 28 104 28 20 7 4 51
2023 29 28 745 350 39 183 29 52 15 5 86
2024 28 28 748 406 49 203 33 59 17 12 90
Career 98 56 1932 899 118 505 92 133 39 21 232

Shooting Totals
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Season FGM FGA FTM FTA 3PM 3PA +/-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2021 13 25 2 7 3 9 -18
2022 41 113 20 39 10 34 -76
2023 127 265 67 112 29 61 8
2024 146 299 72 131 42 96 118
Career 327 702 161 289 84 200 32

Career Highs:
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Type Pts OReb Reb Ast Stl Blk TO FGM FGA FTM FTA 3PM 3PA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Season 30 5 16 3 3 2 6 11 19 10 14 5 8
Career 30 5 16 4 3 2 6 11 19 10 14 5 8

Awards & Acheivements:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Season Award
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All Player of the Game: 12
2019 High School: Rated *** and #245 overall by the FBCB scouting service.
2024 1st Team All-Conference (Independent)


PLAYER DETAILS

#35 C Louis Kingsbury - Oklahoma State - Senior
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Height: 6' 8"
Weight: 252
High School: Steller Secondary School
Hometown: Anchorage, AK

Attributes:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Type INS JPS FTS 3PS HND PAS ORB DRB PSD PRD STL BLK PFS QKN STR JMP STA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current: 10 7 6 0 4 6 4 7 4 6 4 8 8 3 9 5 8
2022: 10 6 6 0 4 6 4 6 4 6 4 7 7 3 8 5 8
2021: 10 5 5 0 4 5 4 6 3 5 4 7 6 2 8 5 7
2020: 10 5 5 0 4 5 3 5 3 5 4 6 4 2 8 5 7
2019: 9 4 5 0 3 5 3 5 3 5 4 5 3 2 7 5 6
Potential: A B C F D C D C D C D B

Health: Good
Scholarship: Yes
Status: Active Roster
Academics: 65

Stat Averages:
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Season G GS MIN PTS ORE REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2020 1 0 4.0 2.0 0.0 1.0 0.0 1.0 0.00 0.0 0.0 1.0
2021 8 0 8.9 4.3 0.3 1.5 0.6 0.6 1.00 0.3 0.5 0.8
2022 34 0 19.4 9.8 0.8 3.8 1.6 1.6 1.00 0.6 1.0 2.1
2023 36 0 23.7 13.3 1.1 5.9 2.2 2.4 0.90 0.3 1.3 2.9
Career 79 0 20.1 10.7 0.9 4.5 1.7 1.8 0.90 0.4 1.1 2.3

Shooting Averages:
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Season FGM FGA FG% FTM FTA FT% 3PM 3PA 3P% PPS +/-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2020 0.0 1.0 .000 2.0 2.0 1.000 0.0 0.0 .000 2.00 1.00
2021 1.6 4.1 .394 1.0 1.4 .727 0.0 0.0 .000 1.03 -1.63
2022 3.4 6.4 .537 2.9 4.4 .660 0.0 0.0 .000 1.53 4.85
2023 4.5 9.2 .488 4.3 6.3 .680 0.0 0.1 .333 1.45 0.19
Career 3.7 7.4 .500 3.3 4.9 .675 0.0 0.0 .333 1.46 2.03

Stat Totals:
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Season G GS MIN PTS OREB REB AST TO STL BLK PF
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2020 1 0 4 2 0 1 0 1 0 0 1
2021 8 0 71 34 2 12 5 5 2 4 6
2022 34 0 659 333 27 129 53 53 19 34 71
2023 36 0 853 478 41 211 78 87 10 48 106
Career 79 0 1587 847 70 353 136 146 31 86 184

Shooting Totals
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Season FGM FGA FTM FTA 3PM 3PA +/-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2020 0 1 2 2 0 0 1
2021 13 33 8 11 0 0 -13
2022 117 218 99 150 0 0 165
2023 161 330 155 228 1 3 7
Career 291 582 264 391 1 3 160

Career Highs:
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Type Pts OReb Reb Ast Stl Blk TO FGM FGA FTM FTA 3PM 3PA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Season 27 4 14 5 2 4 6 10 17 11 13 1 1
Career 27 4 14 6 4 5 6 10 17 11 13 1 1

Awards & Acheivements:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Season Award
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All Player of the Game: 13
2019 High School: Rated *** and #338 overall by the FBCB scouting service.
2019 High School: All-State (Alaska)
2019 High School: Mr. Basketball (Alaska)


Quick notes on Waldron and Fairbanks:

* We bounced between 13 and 17 wins each season.
* We redshirted him the first year because he wouldn't have played much.
* As a sophomore, he split time between C and PF.
* He missed a start in his junior year due to injury; otherwise, he had no injuries or academic suspensions.
* He had 4 POTGs as a junior and 8 as a senior, FYI.
* The All-Conference selection was nice, and probably deserved, but I've had conference POTYs before, and one who won it twice in a row.
* He gained 20 pounds as a collegian.

Quick notes on Kingsbury and OSU:

* OSU's records tell a very interesting story:
2020 - 12-17 (6-10)
2021 - 14-16 (9-7)
2022 - 25-9 (11-5), Final Four
2023 - 21-15 (8-8), Big 12 champs, lost in NCAA 2nd round
2024 - 13-16 (8-8) - Kingsbury was gone by then
* They probably should've redshirted him.
* He was the first guy off the bench his junior and senior years, bouncing between C and PF.
* We played OSU twice on the road. Both were ugly losses for us. Kingsbury played well, Waldron... not so much.
* He had 5 POTGs as a junior and 8 as a senior. Very interesting since he never started.
* He gained 4 pounds.

So... I probably chose the wrong guy, but we did all right anyway. Onward.

[Koryo]

I'll run both recruits through my program and let you know soon.

You have a program?

[Buccaneer]

I don't think you chose the wrong insomuch that you chose the player that you could have realistically recruited. I have been in that situation many times and chose to put my one scholarship into someone I knew I could get, as oppose to risking not getting either.

I noticed you likely played Waldron on the inside. I believe he was better suited as a SF, imo.

[Honolulu Blue]

I don't think you chose the wrong insomuch that you chose the player that you could have realistically recruited. I have been in that situation many times and chose to put my one scholarship into someone I knew I could get, as oppose to risking not getting either.

I noticed you likely played Waldron on the inside. I believe he was better suited as a SF, imo.

I could've gotten Kingsbury if I had really, really wanted him. Trust me.

As for being better as a SF, that's probably true, but:

1) I don't know a lot about basketball,
2) I let the computer set the lineups, and they insisted on putting him inside (mostly), and
3) I'm always short on good, big men and Waldron was (kinda) good and (sort of) big.

[Lathum]

Bucc- What is this program you speak of?

[Calis]

I too am curious about Bucc's program. I assume he made a spreadhseet with weighted formulas to assign values to players. That's an interesting idea and not sure why I never did that. I always end up winging it with regards to recruiting, but I also play very fast, and fly through years. I also tend to recruit best available at the positions I need rather than recruiting to a system. I'd be curious to hear more on the Bucc system.

Given your belief you could have got the other guy I personally don't think it is close. He looks to me like a much better prospect but then again that boils down to what you look for and the strategy you're hoping to employ. It is hard to pass on a big man with that inside scoring. Be interesting if you had a save and could re-write history with the other choice to see what happened.

I've just started playing FBCB again pretty heavily and am now trying to build my team around a system. I'm focusing on a defensive powerhouse with lots of pressing/trapping. I'm not seeing much success yet, but it is a nice change of pace.

[Buccaneer]

Calis is close. It's a program that has a number of functions to parse the great text files from the game into a series of spreadsheet. I have fine-tuned the weighted values over the years until I was satisfied I can trust the normalized numbers by position group. I think one of the big difference is that I spend most of my time analyzing both my roster and the recruits (including a somewhat complex algorithm that gives me guidance on what of the 3 position groups I need to recruit). Also, analyzing (objectively and subjectively) the roster after training camps gives me my depth chart. I never, ever 1) pay attention to what position the player has been assigned to nor 2) let the AI assign my depth chart. The strategy remains somewhat static (numerous controlled tests showed the result never varying much from a mid-point norm - which was discussed in the Suggestions thread. I also don't exploit). Every year, I play about 8-10 season over a four weeks period, which attests to the micromanagement of my logs and analyzes, but still fast-sim week by week.