2010 NFL HOF Finalists announced

[stevew]

Senior
Mortal Lock

Tim Brown – Wide Receiver/Kick Returner – 1988-2003 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders, 2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Cris Carter – Wide Receiver – 1987-89 Philadelphia Eagles, 1990-2001 Minnesota Vikings, 2002 Miami Dolphins

Don Coryell – Coach – 1973-77 St. Louis Cardinals, 1978-1986 San Diego Chargers

Roger Craig – Running Back – 1983-1990 San Francisco 49ers, 1991 Los Angeles Raiders, 1992-93 Minnesota Vikings

Dermonti Dawson – Center – 1988-2000 Pittsburgh Steelers

Richard Dent – Defensive End – 1983-1993, 1995 Chicago Bears, 1994 San Francisco 49ers, 1996 Indianapolis Colts, 1997 Philadelphia Eagles

Russ Grimm – Guard – 1981-1991 Washington Redskins

Charles Haley – Defensive End/Linebacker – 1986-1991, 1999 San Francisco 49ers, 1992-96 Dallas Cowboys

Rickey Jackson – Linebacker – 1981-1993 New Orleans Saints, 1994-95 San Francisco 49ers

Cortez Kennedy – Defensive Tackle – 1990-2000 Seattle Seahawks

Dick LeBeau* – Cornerback – 1959-1972 Detroit Lions

Floyd Little* – Running Back – 1967-1975 Denver Broncos

John Randle – Defensive Tackle – 1990-2000 Minnesota Vikings, 2001-03 Seattle Seahawks

Andre Reed – Wide Receiver – 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins

Jerry Rice – Wide Receiver – 1985-2000 San Francisco 49ers, 2001-04 Oakland Raiders, 2004 Seattle Seahawks

Shannon Sharpe – Tight End – 1990-99, 2002-03 Denver Broncos, 2000-01 Baltimore Ravens

Emmitt Smith – Running Back – 1990-2002 Dallas Cowboys, 2003-04 Arizona Cardinals

http://www.profootballhof.com/enshrinement/2010/1/8/one-step-closer/

Obviously Emmitt Smith and Jerry Rice get in. That leaves 3 spots for the 12 remaining nominees to get selected. Both LeBeau and Little can get in as well, as they were senior selections.

My guess is that LeBeau will get in as well, as he had an excellent playing career, and for his contributions through coaching(zone blitz).

Out of the other players it's really hard to say. I'll guess Sharpe, Grimm and Dent all make it. Selections are announced Feb 6th.

[Raiders Army]

It's a cryin' shame that Ray Guy is denied again...and Coryell over Flores? Please.

[JPhillips]

Put the Sabols in the damned Hall!

[Tigercat]

Rickey Jackson's stats and moderate team success (not like he played for only bad teams, he even has a ring) should have him in the Hall eventually, but he is one that may never shake off the damage playing mostly in a small market did to him.

[JPhillips]

And...

Other than he played in Cincy, why can't Ken Riley get in?

+10000 on Ray Guy.

The self-inflated asshats that make the HOF decisions are an embarrassment.

[gstelmack]

No on Cortez Kennedy, I am unfamiliar with Floyd Little and Rickey Jackson, and everyone else up there belongs in the Hall.

And +1 on Ray Guy, should have been in long ago.

[SnowMan]

Considering some of the teams Tez had around him, and what he did anyways, I'm hoping he gets a serious shot at it. Plus I'm a homer.

[jbergey22]

Its time for Cris Carter to get in. Number 3 in career receptions, #4 in recieving TDs, and #8 in recieving yards.

[stevew]

Carter will make it eventually. I just don't think they'll overshadow Rice with another WR this year. I could be wrong of course.

[Tigercat]

Russ Grimm, Rickey Jackson, Dick LeBeau, Floyd Little, John Randle, Jerry Rice, Emmitt Smith are in.

Very happy that Rickey Jackson got in. Didn't think he would ever get the recognition he deserved for his accomplishments, good to see it finally happen.

I was surprised to see Dent not make it to the final 5 and Haley not make it to the final 10.

[Julio Riddols]

Haley liked talking about boning other players wives too much, probably.

[Senator]

It's a cryin' shame that Ray Guy is denied again...and Coryell over Flores? Please.

RAY GUY - WHY?

Not to take away the complaint you have, because you are obviously a Raiders fan and that is a good thing. But, I think you "might" be wearing your fan goggles.

Flores is a great coach, but Coryell is a truly unique inventor of the modern passing game. Think of him less as getting nominated for his coaching as his innovations to the game as a whole.

Ray Guy. The Legend. Hitting the Super Dome scoreboard. Statistical Secretariat.

Talking about Ray Guy in the Pro Football Historical Abstract:

Ask anybody who the greatest punter in NFL history is, and you will get the same answer: It was Oakland's Ray Guy. Ask them why, and they won't be able to tell you. They certainly wouldn't be able to construct a case based on statistics. Although he is universally acclaimed as the greatest punter in history by those who saw him play, (and more by those who did not), Guy doesn't hold any punting records. Not one. Either single season or career. And while a portfolio documenting Guy's case for the Hall of Fame would be flowing with quotes and anecdotes, you would not be able to include a statistical analysis showing why Guy was better that all other punters. Not against all other punters of all time. Even against his peers at the time he played. There is just no way you can spin the data to support that conclusion.

You might argue that Guy's statistics aren't robust enough to identify the things he did well. However, the league kept statistics on net punting yards, touchbacks, and punts inside the twenty. What else should we be measuring that we are not?

What about hang time? Ok, let's talk about hang time. The theory is that punting the ball high in the air, your coverage team has an opportunity to get down the field and tackle the defender before he can make the return. If that theory is true, then it should be reflected in the net average. In the 11 seasons that we have those figures for Guy, he never once led the league in net average. Among qualifying punters, (min 250 career punts) Guy ranks 44th in gross punting average and 103rd in percentage of touchbacks versus punts inside the twenty.

But, if it were up to me, I would put him because he had that cool high kick with his leg, and one time hit the gondola at the Super Dome.

[stevew]

I'm somewhat suprised that Shannon Sharpe didn't make it in. But in a year with only 3 spots that were actually available to him, I can see not getting in I suppose. Especially when you consider that it's possible that some of the media types may find him to be a bit too outspoken.

[Blackadar]

RAY GUY - WHY?

Not to take away the complaint you have, because you are obviously a Raiders fan and that is a good thing. But, I think you "might" be wearing your fan goggles.

Flores is a great coach, but Coryell is a truly unique inventor of the modern passing game. Think of him less as getting nominated for his coaching as his innovations to the game as a whole.

Ray Guy. The Legend. Hitting the Super Dome scoreboard. Statistical Secretariat.

Talking about Ray Guy in the Pro Football Historical Abstract:

Ask anybody who the greatest punter in NFL history is, and you will get the same answer: It was Oakland's Ray Guy. Ask them why, and they won't be able to tell you. They certainly wouldn't be able to construct a case based on statistics. Although he is universally acclaimed as the greatest punter in history by those who saw him play, (and more by those who did not), Guy doesn't hold any punting records. Not one. Either single season or career. And while a portfolio documenting Guy's case for the Hall of Fame would be flowing with quotes and anecdotes, you would not be able to include a statistical analysis showing why Guy was better that all other punters. Not against all other punters of all time. Even against his peers at the time he played. There is just no way you can spin the data to support that conclusion.

You might argue that Guy's statistics aren't robust enough to identify the things he did well. However, the league kept statistics on net punting yards, touchbacks, and punts inside the twenty. What else should we be measuring that we are not?

What about hang time? Ok, let's talk about hang time. The theory is that punting the ball high in the air, your coverage team has an opportunity to get down the field and tackle the defender before he can make the return. If that theory is true, then it should be reflected in the net average. In the 11 seasons that we have those figures for Guy, he never once led the league in net average. Among qualifying punters, (min 250 career punts) Guy ranks 44th in gross punting average and 103rd in percentage of touchbacks versus punts inside the twenty.

But, if it were up to me, I would put him because he had that cool high kick with his leg, and one time hit the gondola at the Super Dome.

No doubt he's wearing his fan goggles. Ray Guy had a pedestrian 42.4 yard average. He's more famous for hitting the gondola and being a 1st round draft choice than he was a great punter. Hey, maybe next we can start a campaign for Todd Sauerbrun for the HoF. If Raiders fans were smart, they'd be holding their breath for Shane Lechler to get into the HoF. Now that's a campaign I could get behind. But Ray Guy? Plu-heez.

And Tom Flores? Who in their right mind would think that Tom Flores deserves anything, especially over Don Coryell, who essentially revolutionized the entire modern game? Tom Flores doesn't get into the HoF without a full-priced ticket. That's what a career 97-87 W/L record gets you.

Damn glad to see LeBeau get into the HoF. LONG overdue.

[MartinD]

Damn glad to see LeBeau get into the HoF. LONG overdue.

I've not been around long enough to fully appreciate what LeBeau has done over his career, but the impression that I get is that he would merit Hall consideration for either his playing career or what he's done as a coach - put them both together, and it's hard to see why it's taken this long...

[Galaril]

Out here in Denver there was alot of media attention about Floyd Little making the Hall and I was shocked to see he only had 6300 total rushing yards? He had one seaosn of 1000 yards (1133) and I think one more season in the 900 range and everything else below that. How the hell does he get on that? Does this mean Eddie George will be voted in in 25 years good grief.

[stevew]

Actually, probably does mean that George would get in at some point.

[Galaril]

Actually, probably does mean that George would get in at some point.

I have nothing against these guys as they were good above average backs and as a Titans fan I would love to see George in. But, I do think it makes the NFL HOF more a Hall of good players not like the HOF in baseball. Just saying that's all.

[CU Tiger]

Out here in Denver there was alot of media attention about Floyd Little making the Hall and I was shocked to see he only had 6300 total rushing yards? He had one seaosn of 1000 yards (1133) and I think one more season in the 900 range and everything else below that. How the hell does he get on that? Does this mean Eddie George will be voted in in 25 years good grief.


12 and 14 game seasons and all...

[Galaril]

12 and 14 game seasons and all...

Oh good point. I did not think about that.

[stevew]

2011 semi finalists.

The other 24 are, via NFL.com:* safety Steve Atwater, running back Jerome Bettis, receiver Tim Brown, receiver Cris Carter, coach Don Coryell, running back Roger Craig, running back Terrell Davis, center Dermontti Dawson, owner Eddie DeBartolo, defensive end Chris Doleman, linebacker Kevin Greene, defensive end Charles Haley, defensive tackle Cortez Kennedy, running back Curtis Martin, linebacker Clay Matthews, linebacker Karl Mecklenburg, receiver Andre Reed, tackle Willie Roaf, safety Donnie Shell, Commissioner Paul Tagliabue, special-teamer Steve Tasker, cornerback Aeneas Williams, G.M. Ron Wolf, and G.M. George Young.

Plus Will Shields and Bill Parcells.

[bhlloy]

These are usually fun discussions, anyone saying Ray Guy has to submit an essay why he deserves to be close :p

This would be my unscientific list:

Jerome Bettis
Paul Tagliabue (should be there already)
Charles Haley
Cris Carter
Bill Parcells
Willie Roaf

I feel bad about leaving Martin off but he's unlucky to go against Bettis and I don't think I have room for another running back. Very interesting list, I'm not sure there are any absolute locks in there.

EDIT - I look at the stats and Martin is above Bettis in every category. Color me absolutely shocked. Might have to rethink that one.

[bhlloy]

DOLA - Terell Davis is going to be a real litmus test. Does being the most dominant player at your position for a few years warrant a hall entry? Kurt Warner watches in anticipation.

[Atocep]

I feel bad about leaving Martin off but he's unlucky to go against Bettis and I don't think I have room for another running back. Very interesting list, I'm not sure there are any absolute locks in there.

EDIT - I look at the stats and Martin is above Bettis in every category. Color me absolutely shocked. Might have to rethink that one.

Roaf is the only lock I see, but there are a ton of guys that have a case that's good enough for me to not have much of a problem with them getting in.

I liked Bettis as a player, but as a hall of famer I'm iffy on it. I thought Martin was a better player and neither one was a really dominant running back. I tend to prefer greatness over consistently good for a long time. I would possibly have a place for them both eventually, but not this year.

I'd like to see Don Coryell get in at some point. Not going to happen this year though.

[stevew]

My 5-
Roaf
Dawson
Carter
Craig
Kennedy


Kind of crazy that there are no QBs in the final 26.

[Atocep]

Roaf
Kennedy
Dawson
Carter
Parcells

[stevew]

At some point the list goes down to 15.

I hope Tasker can at least make the final 15. I pick Craig due to being on 3 title winning teams, winning one OPoY and being a very versatile back.

[stevew]

I think it is really going to be hard for OLine to get in as guys like Pace, Ogden, Jones, Faneca, and many others get added to the pool over the next several years. Larry Allen would be another guy to consider.

[JediKooter]

If Don Coryell doesn't make it in this time, I'm going to punch Joe Buck in the face 92 times.

[miami_fan]

Congrats to the newest members especially to Cortez Kennedy.

Curtis Martin leads six HOF enshrinees
INDIANAPOLIS -- Curtis Martin has gone from the mean streets of Pittsburgh to the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

The star running back with the Patriots and Jets for 11 seasons was one of six players elected Saturday to the shrine. Martin once disliked playing the game, but used it to escape a neighborhood where his grandmother was murdered.


"When I get awarded something like the Hall of Fame, it's almost foreign to me," said Martin, the NFL's No. 4 career rusher. "This wasn't something I planned on doing. Football is something I did so I didn't end up jailed or dead.

"If you make up your mind to just do the right thing no matter what ... and you stick to it, which I did, this is how things can turn around. I feel as if my life turned around from what it used to be, and I think anyone has a chance."

Martin and four linemen were elected to the hall, along with one senior committee choice. He is joined by Chris Doleman, Cortez Kennedy, Willie Roaf, Dermontti Dawson, and senior selection Jack Butler.

Jerome Bettis, Cris Carter and Bill Parcells were among the finalists who didn't make it.

"I'm not even close to this position, I actually don't think I'd play more than four or five years without Bill Parcells," Martin said, indicating he will have his former coach present him for induction on Aug. 4 in Canton, Ohio.

"I'm very, very happy that Curtis got in. He's really deserving," Parcells told ESPNNewYork.com, preferring to keep the focus on Martin and not his own situation.

"He's one of the greatest players I have ever coached," Parcells said.

Martin called it a "bittersweet" moment because his mentor didn't make the cut with him.

"There's God and there's Parcells as far the meaning they've had on my career," Martin said in a conference call with reporters, adding: "If I did dream about anything, it would've been going into Hall of Fame with guy I feel is responsible for my career ... I was looking forward to either Bill going in or us going in together."

A panel of 44 media members voted in the six men.

Martin made it for his consistency and durability, rushing for 14,101 yards and 90 touchdowns. He rushed for at least 1,000 yards in each of his first 10 seasons, the first three with New England and the others with the Jets. The 1995 Offensive Rookie of the Year, Martin won the NFL rushing title in 2004 with 1,697 yards.

Doleman and Kennedy were sackmasters from the defensive line, Doleman at end and Kennedy at tackle.

Doleman had 150½ sacks in his 15 seasons, mostly with Minnesota, and was one of the prototype agile-yet-powerful pass rushers who dominate the game today. He made the Pro Bowl eight times and was fourth on the sacks list when he retired.

"I am totally blown away by this and humbled by it," Doleman said, adding his son, Evan, would present him for induction. "When they call your name, you're absolutely numb."

Kennedy was a force inside, both as a run stopper and in threatening quarterbacks. The 1992 Defensive Player of the Year made eight Pro Bowls, had 58 sacks -- an unusually high total for a tackle -- and spent his entire 11-season career with Seattle.

He waited by his phone to hear whether he'd made it after a six-year wait, and was happy he had the television on when the announcement was made.

"I thought I was supposed to get a call. I didn't get a call. I had to watch it on TV," Kennedy said.

"I am very excited right now."

Roaf spent one season at right tackle, then the rest of his 13 seasons on the left side, making 11 Pro Bowls. He made the All-Decade team for the 1990s.

"He possessed exceptional physical talent and a great work ethic," said Jim Mora, who coached in New Orleans for 11 seasons. "He was blessed with high quality character and a team-oriented attitude. He was a team leader, always positive, upbeat, and a fun guy to coach and have on the team. Without question Willie was one of my best and favorite players ever."

Dawson made seven Pro Bowls as the Steelers' center, that rare snapper who also could block defensive players one on one. He replaced a Hall of Famer, Mike Webster, and started for Pittsburgh for most of his 13 pro seasons.

"You never know what your career is going to turn out to be," Dawson said. "I knew I had big shoes to fill 'cause it was my first year playing center. I never would have thought I would be in this position after my career."

"It is a great honor and because of being selected today, my phone has blown up."

Butler also played for the Steelers as a cornerback from 1951-59, picking off 52 passes, at the time second most in NFL history. But he was best known for his tackling skills.

"They told me I was good. I didn't know I was good," Butler said. "I never, ever, ever thought I would be here."

Guard Will Shields didn't get in -- the only first-year eligible player to make the 15-man finals. Shields started all but one of the 224 games in his 14 seasons in Kansas City.

Bettis also fell short. He was the 1993 Offensive Rookie of the Year with the Rams who retired in 2006 after winning his only Super Bowl with the Steelers. He is the NFL's No. 5 career rusher.

Parcells coached the Giants to Super Bowl titles in the 1987 and 1991 games and also lost the 1997 Super Bowl with New England. He coached the New York Jets and Dallas Cowboys, too.

Carter, who along with Parcells is an NFL analyst for ESPN, is the No. 4 with 1,101 career receptions in 16 seasons with three teams.

Others not voted in were receivers Tim Brown and Andre Reed, defensive end/linebackers Kevin Greene and Charles Haley, defensive back Aeneas Williams, and former 49ers owner Ed DeBartolo Jr.

The other senior finalist, guard Dick Stanfel, was not chosen, either.

Information from ESPNNewYork.com's Rich Cimini and The Associated Press contributed to this report.

[Matthean]

I officially don't get Parcells and Carter not getting in.

[spleen1015]

I officially don't get Parcells and Carter not getting in.

Me either.

[rowech]

Me either.

Here's the thing about Carter...when he was playing -- not looking back at his numbers now -- did you ever think he was really a HOFer while watching him? I know I certainly didn't.

He was nothing at all until Moon showed up. He was nothing at all unless he had another good to great WR opposite him (Reed and Moss). How much of a game changer could he really have been?

His numbers say HOF probably but he never passed the eye test for me. Ever. This idea he's being snubbed is being pushed by the media folks -- especially ESPN where he works.

He's probably a HOFer on numbers but he will never in my mind pass the test as a WR I would name off quickly from the 90s. I would think of several other guys before him.

[ColtCrazy]

The Cris Carter thing makes me wonder about Marvin Harrison's chances once he comes up in a couple of years. The only difference I see is that Harrison was considered the best at his position (during his time in the league) for several years. He was always at the top of NFL player polls. I'm not sure Carter ever was since he was playing during Rice's career.

Parcells definitely needs to be in.

Very happy for Curtis Martin. Definition of consistency.

[Matthean]

Parcells not getting in makes me wonder about Coughlin if the Giants win today. Parcells won two, got the Pats to the SB, and still isn't in.

[PurdueBrad]

Glad to see Dawson get in, sad that Bus didn't get in and next year is supposed to be a really competitive group. He'll probably be waiting for a bit.

[Autumn]

Frankly, I lump Carter in with Curtis Martin, players who racked up numbers but never struck me as dominating at their position. Both were important on the field - having a back that reliable, or a possession receiver that reliable are important. But I was surprised at the end of Martin's career to see his numbers. He'd never come across as the #1 guy in all his career I didn't think.

[Autumn]

And yeah, as Football Outsiders said, it's hard to imagine what coach gets in if Parcells doesn't.

[Izulde]

Which, I think, brings up the question... is Curtis Martin Emmitt Smith without all the glitz?

[molson]

I think there's criteria/timing considerations with the HOF we're not aware of. It's not a straightforward vote like MLB. With Parcells, it has to be something. Wasn't there some bad blood a few years back because he promised the HOF he was done coaching when they were on the fence about considering him, and then he took another coaching job?

They can't think Parcells is going to coach again at this point, but maybe they think he's still too close to the NFL, was too recently involved with the Dolphins, and they think he might take another front office job.

Point is, I definitely don't think you compare his chances to any other coaches' or look just at the super bowl wins and on-field success.

[MrBug708]

The Cris Carter thing makes me wonder about Marvin Harrison's chances once he comes up in a couple of years. The only difference I see is that Harrison was considered the best at his position (during his time in the league) for several years. He was always at the top of NFL player polls. I'm not sure Carter ever was since he was playing during Rice's career.

Parcells definitely needs to be in.

Very happy for Curtis Martin. Definition of consistency.

Being a neutral NFL fan, I dont think I ever thought of Harrison as the best WR at anytime. Probably a top 5 WR but never the best

[Vince, Pt. II]

Which, I think, brings up the question... is Curtis Martin Emmitt Smith without all the glitz?

The smell test says no...but I think that has more to do with the glitz than with their actual talent. Trying to be objective, I still think Emmit is better, but I don't know if the gap is as big as a snap judgement would indicate.

[Senator]

I think there's criteria/timing considerations with the HOF we're not aware of. It's not a straightforward vote like MLB. With Parcells, it has to be something. Wasn't there some bad blood a few years back because he promised the HOF he was done coaching when they were on the fence about considering him, and then he took another coaching job?

They can't think Parcells is going to coach again at this point, but maybe they think he's still too close to the NFL, was too recently involved with the Dolphins, and they think he might take another front office job.


Why would that matter? Joe Gibbs went into the HOF in 1996 and coached the Redskins again from 04-08.

[rowech]

Nice explanation of some of the thoughts behind things...

http://www.cnnsi.com/2012/writers/jim_trotter/02/04/hall.of.fame/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a6&eref=sihp

[molson]

Why would that matter? Joe Gibbs went into the HOF in 1996 and coached the Redskins again from 04-08.

That's kind of my point, there's no year-to-year consistency in this process. Though whether coaches are considered "retired" has definitely been a consideration in at least some years in the past.

[stevew]

2015 has a crazy first time class.

2015 -- left tackles Walter Jones and Orlando Pace, linebacker Junior Seau, quarterback Kurt Warner, cornerback Ty Law, , and running back Edgerrin James.

I suppose all of those guys aren't first ballot guys, but I could easily see all of them getting in quickly, and James making it some day.

[Senator]

That's kind of my point, there's no year-to-year consistency in this process.

Truth

[Swaggs]

Glad to see Dawson get in. He was a fantastic player for a long time, at a position that rarely gets any notice.

I kind of see Curtis Martin and Cris Carter in the same class as Bettis, Tim Brown, Art Monk, James Lofton and others. Good enough based on length of their careers rather than how great they were at the peaks of their careers. I guess I had underrated Martin, but I think all of those get in eventually (like Monk and Lofton eventually did. It will just take a weak year, where they sneak in as the last man in the class.

[Blackadar]

On Parcells...a case can be made that he gets in, but it's not quite as obvious as some would make it out.

Parcells: 172 wins, 130 losses. .570 winning percentage. 11-8 in the playoffs. 2 Super Bowls wins (perhaps the best thing he has going for him). Note that he never won a Super Bowl without Bill Belichick.

Mike Shanahan (who I don't think is HOF-worthy): 157 wins, 119 losses. .569 winning percentage. 8-5 in the playoffs. 2 Super Bowl wins.

Mike Holmgren: 161 wins, 111 losses. .592 winning percentage. 13-11 in the playoffs. 1 Super Bowl win, but 3 appearances.

Good company, but are all 3 of these guys HOF-worthy? If so, then Parcells should be in. If not...it's going to be tough to admit Parcells but keep out Holmgren and/or Shanahan.

[stevew]

I'm hoping this will get the Steelers into the HOF game this year.

[Travis]

Glad to see Tez get in and I can't wait to see Walter Jones get inducted in a couple of years.

[SnowMan]

Glad to see Tez get in and I can't wait to see Walter Jones get inducted in a couple of years.
Totally agree. My 2 favorite Hawks.

[Logan]

Good place for this:

Peter King considers stepping aside from Hall of Fame committee - Peter King - SI.com (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/02/14/hall-of-fame/index.html?eref=twitter_feed)