when they total your car, how does it work?

[stevew]

I was in a pretty devastating accident to my car tonight. I came over the crest of a hill going about 45MPH. Anyways, wait for it, there were at least 6 cows on the road and I hit at least 3 of them. Luckily I am okay. The car is fucked though.

Do they basically give you the blue book retail price of your car? I know I'm upside down. However I guess if you told me earlier today that I could make my car go away for less than 3K I would he okay with it.

[Dodgerchick]

!!!

Holy shit! Glad you're ok

[Lathum]

Pics Plz. K. Thx.

[Lathum]

dola- In all honesty I don't know. My father in law is a big wig for an insurance company, I could ask him if no one can give you an answer, I'm certain he will know.

[jbergey22]

Glad you are ok Steve. Im guessing the Cows arent in great shape.

To answer your question

It is actual cash value - deductible.

If you have a loan on the vehicle if you have GAP insurance it would cover the difference if your car is worth less than the loan amount.

Its also up to you if you wanted to take this approach but the owner of the cows are liable to make sure their cows arent in the middle of a road.

[Young Drachma]

It really depends on the insurance company. When it happened to me, I was 21, it wasn't my fault and there were two other drivers at fault. Just a stupid mess. I'm sure they all have their own ways of handling it, based on your coverage and so forth.

[JediKooter]

Holy crap. Glad you're alright. Man, that's a lot of steak you took out tonight.

[bhlloy]

I totalled a car about 5 months ago in LA. For us (and I believe this is standard) it's wasn't the blue book value, it was what the exact make and model car is selling for in our zip code (or the nearby area). I guess this is the actual cash value that jbergy is talking about? We had a brand new Camry XLE and actually made out like bandits, they valued the car at 27k when blue book was only around 24k. The only thing we can imagine is that because the car was so new there weren't many being sold used in our area and we lucked into a market that was very overpriced. When they sent us the paperwork they sent us the info on the comparable vehicle and it was selling for 27k, but whether the person got that for it is another matter I guess.

Anyway, best of luck. It's a horrible feeling not knowing if you are going to get screwed over on the valuation or not. I honestly thought we were going to take a complete bath on the value of the car so we got a nice surprise. I hope it works out that way for you. I'm still looking at maybe 4-6k down though because my third-party coverage wasn't good enough and the damage to the other vehicle was over 20k. That was a lesson learned right there.

[stevew]

No pix. didn't think to take any. My car was covered in cow shit.

I heard the farmer shoot 3 of them.

Ohio has screwy laws on cows in the road.

[jbergey22]

I totalled a car about 5 months ago in LA. For us (and I believe this is standard) it's wasn't the blue book value, it was what the exact make and model car is selling for in our zip code (or the nearby area). I guess this is the actual cash value that jbergy is talking about? We had a brand new Camry XLE and actually made out like bandits, they valued the car at 27k when blue book was only around 24k. The only thing we can imagine is that because the car was so new there weren't many being sold used in our area and we lucked into a market that was very overpriced. When they sent us the paperwork they sent us the info on the comparable vehicle and it was selling for 27k, but whether the person got that for it is another matter I guess.

Anyway, best of luck. It's a horrible feeling not knowing if you are going to get screwed over on the valuation or not. I honestly thought we were going to take a complete bath on the value of the car so we got a nice surprise. I hope it works out that way for you. I'm still looking at maybe 4-6k down though because my third-party coverage wasn't good enough and the damage to the other vehicle was over 20k. That was a lesson learned right there.

Yes. Very well stated. The definition of that in insurance terms is very vague.

[SackAttack]

No pix. didn't think to take any. My car was covered in cow shit.

I heard the farmer shoot 3 of them.

Ohio has screwy laws on cows in the road.

Livestock has the right of way in Wisconsin, I know that.

[NewIdentity]

Livestock has the right of way in Wisconsin, I know that.
That is exactly what I was thinking for my state as well.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Wow. Talk about traumatic. :(

I never totaled a car myself. Worst I did was $5000 damage to a $7500 new truck with 311 miles on it.

[Tekneek]

Only time I had a car totaled, I actually got about 2x the supposed "blue book value" of the car. It is important to know what those values are though, so you are prepared to challenge it if it comes in way under. If you had any significant work done that otherwise wouldn't be reflected in the traditional book value, it is important to gather that (if you choose to challenge their assessment). I should say that it is true what the others have said, of course, that they are going to base it on like/similar models being sold in your area. You still should be able to try to negotiate if it really doesn't reflect the value of your specific vehicle.

[Swaggs]

As mentioned, when I worked at the insurance company, we had a vendor that surveyed your area for cars of the same model and make that are currently or recently on sale and then they made adjustments for things like mileage or add-ons. It was usually pretty generous and I never had any trouble settling with clients, unless they were ridiculously upside down (and that was generally pretty easily resolved, once they realized that was their fault rather than the insurance company's fault.).

[spleen1015]

If livestock has the right of way, does that mean you're gonna have to pay for the cows?

[JPhillips]

Make sure you do your research on what your car would sell for in your area. Don't assume the insurance company is giving you a fair deal.

[Dr. Sak]

Just wanted to say that I'm glad you walked away physically ok.

[DaddyTorgo]

shit - glad you're okay though!

i can tell you my dad's experience - he got FUCKED by the insurance company. What they gave him for his car wasn't even enough to get a decent USED car.

that's something i've learned now to look out for when choosing insurance companies - the last thing you want after your car gets totaled is to get reamed by your insurance company offering you like 4k for your car.

[miked]

We're in the same boat, minus the cows. Car totaled the other day, but not terribly. It's just that it's a 2000 Pathfinder with like 200k+ miles on it. So any damage over 3k is likely a total. They told me the same thing, they would value it based on mileage, options, etc and compare it to cars in the area. Seems like they give themselves some good wiggle room to bend you over.

[Mustang]

I've totaled 2 cars and in both cases I received more than what the blue book (one REALLY my fault, one not). What your insurance company should be doing is valuing the car and coming up with a replacement value for it. Hopefully it is at least > than the pay off value of the car. Don't assume that you will still owe and fret about that, you could still come out even.

[flere-imsaho]

Glad to hear you're OK and those weren't lungs' cows. :D

[Dr. Sak]

Glad to hear you're OK and those weren't lungs' cows. :D

Or better yet Lungs wasn't there with his fist up the cows' butt :)

[DaddyTorgo]

We're in the same boat, minus the cows. Car totaled the other day, but not terribly. It's just that it's a 2000 Pathfinder with like 200k+ miles on it. So any damage over 3k is likely a total. They told me the same thing, they would value it based on mileage, options, etc and compare it to cars in the area. Seems like they give themselves some good wiggle room to bend you over.

exactly! and at that point you wonder "why did I pay all that insurance again anyways if they're just going to give me like $1500 for my car."

You're basically fucked.

[Alan T]

exactly! and at that point you wonder "why did I pay all that insurance again anyways if they're just going to give me like $1500 for my car."

You're basically fucked.


For alot of people insurance is more about making sure you don't end up giving someone your house if you get into an accident that is your fault more than it covering you.


+1 on the glad Steve is ok as well.

[cartman]

I hope the cow farmer isn't related to any of the drivers that ended up in your yard, stevew...

:D

[DaddyTorgo]

For alot of people insurance is more about making sure you don't end up giving someone your house if you get into an accident that is your fault more than it covering you.


+1 on the glad Steve is ok as well.


good point. but in that case when the accident is someone else's fault shouldn't THEIR insurance company pay up? I know that wasn't the case in this instance with the cows, but I'm thinking of my dad's case...got rear-ended while stopped at a light on Rt. 2. Got basically shit for his car.

So basically neither insurance company paid up any great sum of money and they both just pocketed it.

It's a great fucking scam insurance is.

[Rizon]

Happy cows come from California. FYI.

[MikeVic]

Crazy! Glad you're ok though.

[Rizon]

.

[albionmoonlight]

Car totaled--Any advice for dealing with insurance? - Front Office Football Central (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=61646)

[lungs]

Don't drive near any of my cows please!

[JediKooter]

It's a great fucking scam insurance is.

And it's the law you have to have it. I wish I could create a product that is mandated by law that people have to buy...

[stevew]

Don't drive near any of my cows please!

I know you were pissed about Bumgardner getting a torn UCL. You didn't have to bitch about it to the cows though.

I figure Sack attack will sic a convoy of best buy trucks on me for Strasburg going down too.

[stevew]

The worst part was probably that the one cow shit all down the side of my car when it died. I could barely get out of the drivers door and in doing so I basically covered myself in cow shit.

[JediKooter]

This story sounds like it has a lot of bull shit in it.

[SackAttack]

I know you were pissed about Bumgardner getting a torn UCL. You didn't have to bitch about it to the cows though.

I figure Sack attack will sic a convoy of best buy trucks on me for Strasburg going down too.

Best Buy trucks?

Screw that noise. I'm gonna see if I can't sic the insurance company on you and have them figure out a way that you have to pay THEM the value of the car because it got totaled.

That'll learn you!

[Maple Leafs]

Mrs. Leafs totalled her car a few weeks ago. Canada may be different, but the insurance company apparently calculated what her car would have been worth in the local market and offered that.

To be honest, it was a lot more than we thought we'd get.

[gstelmack]

Best Buy trucks?

Screw that noise. I'm gonna see if I can't sic the insurance company on you and have them figure out a way that you have to pay THEM the value of the car because it got totaled.

That'll learn you!

GeekSquad cars look like cows. Are you sure stevew didn't hit one of them and just THOUGHT it was a cow?

[k0ruptr]

I'd also check to see if it was a blind hill if they try to fuck you one way or another, was it a blind hill, and did it have a warning,sign,etc.

[SackAttack]

GeekSquad cars look like cows. Are you sure stevew didn't hit one of them and just THOUGHT it was a cow?

Cows are bigger than Geek Squad cars, though. And you don't usually find six of them in one place. I've yet to see a store that had more than two or three vehicles assigned to it.

[SnDvls]

And it's the law you have to have it. I wish I could create a product that is mandated by law that people have to buy...

you don't have to buy insurance. You can put up a bond. Basically a crap load of money to assure the state that if you are at fault the other party will get paid.

[stevew]

Make sure you do your research on what your car would sell for in your area. Don't assume the insurance company is giving you a fair deal.

They came back about where I thought they would. Roughly 80% of KBB value.

[stevew]

Alright bump.

Apparently I nearly die every other year on Jan 19th. Last night I got hit by a semi truck.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Alright bump.

Apparently I nearly die every other year on Jan 19th. Last night I got hit by a semi truck.
the fuck

[spleen1015]

Alright bump.

Apparently I nearly die every other year on Jan 19th. Last night I got hit by a semi truck.

I assume you're okay since you're posting.

How bad is it?

[DaddyTorgo]

the fuck

This.

Dude - you probably shouldn't be driving.

Or at least just drive a beat-up POS. Or a tank. Your choice.

[stevew]

Oh, this one is totaled too. I must have picked something up in my back tire, as all the sudden my car started to shudder everywhere. It was icy and I lost control and could see the semi coming. Thankfully timing was on my side and he only nailed the front of the car. Nobody was hurt. On the highway, thankfully everyone was only going about 30-35 and there wasn't much traffic.

[JediKooter]

Glad to hear you're ok man. Ever think of moving somewhere warmer? Oh and was the semi hauling cows by any chance?

[k0ruptr]

glad your okay but you might want to not drive at all in January 2014. Cow - Semi is a pretty big jump, and you don't wanna see a damn 747 coming straight at you or something.

[Glengoyne]

Oh, this one is totaled too. ...

Hey well at least you know how that works now.;)






Oh and it is good to hear that you're Okay as well.

[DanGarion]

Wow... glad to hear you are ok Steve.

[CU Tiger]

Damn dude, glad you are ok.
Remember the value they offer is negotiable.

[Lathum]

Steve, I work for one of the major insurance companies on the repair side and deal with lots of total losses. If you have any questions lemme know.

[Lathum]

Remember the value they offer is negotiable.

kind of.

Insurance is one thing that rules change state to state so maybe things are different in PA. That being said you are perfectly welcome to do your own research, but your insurance company is under no obligation to use that research in your settlement. I would almost be willing to guarentee the contract you signed has some sort of wording that talks about being responsible for giving you "fair market value"...

The problem when people do their own research is they really don't know how to get accurate research, they look on craigslist, etc....or use Kelly Blue Book, which is a very generic depiction of true value.

The bottom line is your insurance company isn't really obligated to give you any more than their offer. You could always go to court or file a complaint with the insurance commission if you really feel you are being lowballed, but at what point does the time or money involved make it worth it?

As long as you have a reputable provider you will get fair value for your vehicle.

People have a lot of misconceptions about why they think their vehicle should be worth more than it is. Some examples are

Someone just put a new battery in the car they feel they should be given a higher settlement. The reality of it is that is a maintenance item the car needs to keep running, it doesn't add any actual value to the vehicle. We see this a lot with things like tune ups, batteries, etc...Tires don't count. the better the condition of the tires the higher value

Options are a big one. Just because you have a $2,000 stereo in your car doesn't mean it increases the value by $2,000, usually it would increase the value by about $300. That number comes from a third party, not the insurance company.

If you have a reputable company the actual settlement amount should come from a third party. What your company will likely do is run a valuation of the vehicle so they can gauge the salvage value. I don't want to get to much into how it works in a public forum.

Where you can make sure you don't get screwed is in a couple of places. Make sure they explain every aspect of how they came up with the numbers for the settlement. Make sure they included all the options you actually have. Make sure they have the mileage correct, nothing devalues a car more than mileage.

The other thing is ask for the grading/valuation numbers. They will likely grade the interior/ body/trim/seats/etc...ask for those numbers and how they came up with their ratings. If you do't agree request photographic evidence.

I can't speak for other companies but I will tell you my company isn't out to screw you. When I do a total loss I don't go into it thinking "how can I screw this person" I go into it trying to get as much fair value for the customer as I can. The biggest measure of success in insurance is retention, your insurance company wants to keep you as a customer, so they aren't going to screw you.

Again, any questions lemme know either here or through a PM

Glad you aren't hurt.

[sterlingice]

glad your okay but you might want to not drive at all in January 2014. Cow - Semi is a pretty big jump, and you don't wanna see a damn 747 coming straight at you or something.

+1

"Oh my god! It's the space shuttle on the back of a blue whale!"

SI

[Jughead Spock]

Bet it wasn't cow shit covering the car this time.



(Glad you're ok).

[Apathetic Lurker]

Insurance companies sort of use blue book but also tend to lowball it by finding every little flaw in the car prior to the accident...And yes, they will find ways to find flaws.....

[sterlingice]

Insurance companies sort of use blue book but also tend to lowball it by finding every little flaw in the car prior to the accident...And yes, they will find ways to find flaws.....

I didn't have any problems with this when I totalled my car (yay, ice!). State Farm paid straight up Blue Book.

SI

[Lathum]

Insurance companies sort of use blue book but also tend to lowball it by finding every little flaw in the car prior to the accident...And yes, they will find ways to find flaws.....

If you were buying a car from someone wouldn't you want the right to point out every flaw?

[Apathetic Lurker]

If you were buying a car from someone wouldn't you want the right to point out every flaw?

Of course, but finding some petty flaws on a totaled car is different......That thing is pretty much salvage

When my car was rear-ended and totaled his insurance company kept nitpicking shit.......Told me I had no rearview mirror(true,but its not required). They went to reduce what they deemed the value was by 200 bucks....Other little things too...Had to fight them assholes all the way....

[k0ruptr]

+1

"Oh my god! It's the space shuttle on the back of a blue whale!"

SI

LOL!

[Lathum]

The thing is missing a mirror isn't nitpicking. Auto parts are the most recycled parts in the world. So when the insurance company totals your car they get a salvage bid on it. Every part of your vehicle that isn't damaged can be resold by a vendor. This is industry standard, if used parts weren't available no one could afford premiums.

So when your vehicle is missing parts or is damaged in other areas that devalues it the same way it would devalue it in a retail situation. When an insurance company buys a used part that part has to be insurance quality, since insurance companies are the largest buyer of parts anything that makes those parts harder to sell hurt the salvage vendors. Even a little ding to a door hurt the value because someone has to fix that ding prior to it being reused on another vehicle.

I can't speak for other companies, but my company uses a third party to determine value. So that $200 deduction for the missing mirror isn't a number the insurance company comes up with, that amount is generated by a third party that compiles that sort of data.

[CU Tiger]

The thing is missing a mirror isn't nitpicking. Auto parts are the most recycled parts in the world. So when the insurance company totals your car they get a salvage bid on it. Every part of your vehicle that isn't damaged can be resold by a vendor. This is industry standard, if used parts weren't available no one could afford premiums.

So when your vehicle is missing parts or is damaged in other areas that devalues it the same way it would devalue it in a retail situation. When an insurance company buys a used part that part has to be insurance quality, since insurance companies are the largest buyer of parts anything that makes those parts harder to sell hurt the salvage vendors. Even a little ding to a door hurt the value because someone has to fix that ding prior to it being reused on another vehicle.

I can't speak for other companies, but my company uses a third party to determine value. So that $200 deduction for the missing mirror isn't a number the insurance company comes up with, that amount is generated by a third party that compiles that sort of data.


I understand what you are saying, but I think this starts to venture close to the discussion in the SOPA thread regarding evolving business models. The insurance model is, or more rightly should be or started as, you collect money from the masses and invest and grow that money to cover the bills of a few. Then you rate the likelihood of the few to file a claim and charge accordingly. Essentially all debts could be paid by others premiums, a giant ponzi.

However in the ever increasing world of greed, insurance companies made a sport of beating down reputable body shops (to be fair many non reputable ones made quite the sport of abusing insurance companies as well) to do reapirs at a cost that either necessitated reduced quality control, or cheaper materials and ultimately both. The machine churned and profits sored untilt he point where insuarance companies actually got in the salvage game(research who founded LKQ) and then began profiting off the destroyed vehicles they came to own from their misfortunate customers.

The worm has turned. The industry has jumped the shark. A total loss shouldnt be a profit event for an insurance company, it should be a safey valve for the customer. And it should happen infrequently enough to not make an insurance company insolvent. The need to turn a profit from a worst case scenario lead to the whole discussion you are having.

Remember as an insurance company the driver is your customer, not the other way around. The goal shouldnt be to buy their car as cheap as possible, it should be to minimize the distress to your customer and get them back on the road as painless as possible. When someone figures that out, retention rates wont be an issue.

[Lathum]

The goal isn't to buy the car as cheap as possible, it is to give fair market value. The driving factor of the way my company determines the value of a vehicle is we search how much the same year, make, and model is selling for withing an X mile radius. We then use a third party that factors in deductions for mileage, damage, missing parts, etc...plus enhancements and options that add value to come to a settlement.

[stevew]

I would say that I was really pleased with Flo's determination of value. Couple pics of the car.

[CU Tiger]

Ouch...btw what the hell is all over the ground?

[stevew]

Semen

[stevew]

Dirty ass snow to be serious actually. It's a dirt lot.

[CU Tiger]

Dirty ass snow to be serious actually. It's a dirt lot.


Yeah before she passed my MIL lived in Ohio. The first time we went to visit it was so disappointing.
Down South when it does snow it is a nice pure white color and especially in rural areas like mine it is a large flowing bed of white. I was expecting that just 4' deep. I wa squite disappointed to learn that when snow sits around for weeks or months at a time it tuns dirty and such...

I was mainly just making an easy joke about snow.

[Ksyrup]

Not close to totalled, but on our way back from Indy after an indoor softball tournament yesterday, we got hit with a piece of tire that did some damage to the bumper of my wife's brand new Odyssey. I didn't even see it - the semi in front of us must have kicked it out and it hit the front license plate, shattering it, knocked out the outside temperature gauge, damaged the grill, and pushed the bumper out a bit on the driver's side. Fuck me. I've got a $250 deductible so it's not that bad, but the damn van's not even 2 months old.

[JPhillips]

Brutal.

<embed src="http://cnettv.cnet.com/av/video/cbsnews/atlantis2/cbsnews_player_embed.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" background="#333333" width="425" height="279" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" FlashVars="si=254&contentValue=50129575&shareUrl=http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57494354/internet-outrage-grows-around-progressive-insurance/" />

And here's the guy's website:

http://mattfisher.tumblr.com/post/29439232939/please-read-the-case-information-thanks-jon

[Lathum]

http://www.progressive.com/understanding-insurance/entries/2012/8/16/update_on_the_kaitl.aspx

[JPhillips]

Progressive went to trial to keep from paying the claim. I don't think they are really disputing that. They have a legal right to do so, but that doesn't clear them morally. That's my problem with the insurance companies I have had claims through. They don't break the law, but they are only concerned with paying out as little as possible.

[bhlloy]

I'm generally on the insurance side in a lot of these debates (wife works for a major national insurance company) but that is pretty fucked up. I understand their right to do it and the precedent, but you have to ask if the 75k minus associated fees and effort would have been worth it even without the media storm. Brutal is right and it's tough for the whole industry to defend this kind of stuff.

[Desnudo]

If you were buying a car from someone wouldn't you want the right to point out every flaw?

Maybe it depends on your insurer? There seems to be a pretty wide range of customer service / support quality. For example, State Farm on one end and esurance or whatever on the other. I'll always remember the story from a lady who had her radio stolen and the SF agent replaced it with nicer model.

Of course I use Geico because I'm cheap.

[Ksyrup]

Progressive went to trial to keep from paying the claim. I don't think they are really disputing that. They have a legal right to do so, but that doesn't clear them morally. That's my problem with the insurance companies I have had claims through. They don't break the law, but they are only concerned with paying out as little as possible.

That's the entire basis of the business model, though. You price policies based on an actuarial analysis, and a lot of that obviously has to do with what provisions are in the policy. You don't stay in business by paying claims that violate the policy provisions and underwriting rules.

That said, this was obviously a close enough case factually that they should have attempted to settle before it ever got this far. But let's say the facts were clear that she was at fault in the collision, and she died. Is Progressive still morally bankrupt for failing to pay the claim? After all, she's still dead.