Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[dawgfan]

I'm highly amused at the leaked Baylor booster e-mails. Baylor is a superior academic institution to Colorado? Not by any measure that the Pac-10 cares about.

I don't think there's any question that everyone involved would prefer Colorado over Baylor. The only ones pushing for Baylor are Baylor themselves, their alums, and State legislators in Texas with some affiliation to Baylor. I have my doubts they'll win out. Tech on the other hand I think is going to be tethered to Texas. A&M will be given the option to try to find a spot in the SEC if that's what they prefer, but if not they're obviously in with the Pac-10 as well.

[dawgfan]

You know...all this BS from the other conferences is making me hate them even more.

Just make a fucking decision and move on people!
Right, because it's really simple and there's no complicating factors at all that could slow things down.

[MacroGuru]

Right, because it's really simple and there's no complicating factors at all that could slow things down.

Trust me I know what you are saying but the, we are gonna make an announcement, we aren't, one conference wants this, one team wants that BS is starting to drag on, that is all I am saying

[digamma]

Trust me I know what you are saying but the, we are gonna make an announcement, we aren't, one conference wants this, one team wants that BS is starting to drag on, that is all I am saying

To be fair, I'm not sure anyone other than Message Board Guy has said they are going to make an announcement. Except Baylor.

[kcchief19]

Missouri Board of Curators put out their agenda for this week's meeting with an advisory that there will be no comment on Big 12 or Big 10 matters.

My heart wants this thing over with and keeps thinking that maybe there will be a swift resolution to this. My brain has always said July 1 is the magic date. I don't think anyone wants to be the first to blink and bow to a deadline.

I think June 15 will come and neither Missouri nor Nebraska will give the Big 12 the pledge of allegiance the others want. That puts the ball back into the hands of Texas and the Pac 10.

[kcchief19]

Yeah, but there is no way the status quo survives. It looks as though Delaney has two plans’ here;

1.ND joins as the 12th team and he’s done
2.Blow up the Big-East and make ND join as the 16th

One way or the other, he’s walking away with ND in his conference. Does ND really think he’s bluffing on option #2?

Maybe it just comes down to school politics. The ND admin’s know that it’s best to be the 12th team, but they can’t look like they caved to the Big-10’s demands so they will have to be drug into the league kicking and screaming.
There's option 3, which is you expand to 14 and keep the door open for Notre Dame in the future.

[Swaggs]

The more I think about it, the more I think that Nebraska and especially Missouri may be in for a painful wait. You have to think that the Big Ten is not just going to watch Texas go to the Pac 10 without a fight. And, the result is going to be on Texas' time, not the Big Ten's, Pac 10's or Notre Dame's.

[miked]

I'm highly amused at the leaked Baylor booster e-mails. Baylor is a superior academic institution to Colorado? Not by any measure that the Pac-10 cares about.

I don't think there's any question that everyone involved would prefer Colorado over Baylor. The only ones pushing for Baylor are Baylor themselves, their alums, and State legislators in Texas with some affiliation to Baylor. I have my doubts they'll win out. Tech on the other hand I think is going to be tethered to Texas. A&M will be given the option to try to find a spot in the SEC if that's what they prefer, but if not they're obviously in with the Pac-10 as well.

Not that I care either way, but Baylor College of Medicine is one of the top ranked NIH funded institutions in the country.

[Blade6119]

Just wanted to copy something my friend posted on a blog post about baylor being more attractive then colorado based on its supposed athletic accomplishments:

All weekend long, ESPN has been harping about how Oklahoma is the second-biggest catch for the Pac-16 besides Texas.

Really? I mean, really? Does nobody understand the idea of conference expansion? This isn't about football, people: it's about money. If you think Oklahoma and its 45th (OKC) and 61st (Tulsa) ranked media markets is a "catch" with regards to conference expansion, then you have failed to grasp the very essence of why anyone is interested in conference expansion in the first place.

In terms of conference expansion, Oklahoma is basically a crimson and cream New Mexico with a better football team. Oh wait, ALBUQUERQUE IS A BIGGER MEDIA MARKET THAN OKLAHOMA CITY.

/rant

[dawgfan]

Not that I care either way, but Baylor College of Medicine is one of the top ranked NIH funded institutions in the country.
I'm sure Baylor is a fine school, and I know that their school of medicine is one of the best in the country. But in the measures that the Pac-10 (and Big Ten) cares about, Baylor comes up well short of Colorado.

[dawgfan]

Really? I mean, really? Does nobody understand the idea of conference expansion? This isn't about football, people: it's about money. If you think Oklahoma and its 45th (OKC) and 61st (Tulsa) ranked media markets is a "catch" with regards to conference expansion, then you have failed to grasp the very essence of why anyone is interested in conference expansion in the first place.

In terms of conference expansion, Oklahoma is basically a crimson and cream New Mexico with a better football team. Oh wait, ALBUQUERQUE IS A BIGGER MEDIA MARKET THAN OKLAHOMA CITY.

/rant
Really? You think that only people in Oklahoma care about watching the Sooners play? Focusing on specific, local media markets is a mistake - a program like Oklahoma has broadly regional and even national appeal. Ask Joe Sportsfan with no affiliation to either school if he'd be inclined to watch an Oklahoma football game on TV, he's going to have some interest. Ask him if he wants to watch a New Mexico football game and he's most like to say "They have a football team?"

Oklahoma boosts the TV negotiating power of the Pac/Big 16. Not nearly as much as Texas, but more than pretty much any other Big-12 program (Nebraska and A&M might be on par).

[digamma]

Just wanted to copy something my friend posted on a blog post about baylor being more attractive then colorado based on its supposed athletic accomplishments:

All weekend long, ESPN has been harping about how Oklahoma is the second-biggest catch for the Pac-16 besides Texas.

Really?


Yes. A thousand times yes.

[fpres]

Not that I care either way, but Baylor College of Medicine is one of the top ranked NIH funded institutions in the country.


Baylor University (Waco) and Baylor College of Medicine (Houston) are unrelated institutions.

[kcchief19]

The more I think about it, the more I think that Nebraska and especially Missouri may be in for a painful wait. You have to think that the Big Ten is not just going to watch Texas go to the Pac 10 without a fight. And, the result is going to be on Texas' time, not the Big Ten's, Pac 10's or Notre Dame's.
Yep. I really don't understand the point of a do-or-don't deadline from the Big 12. The Big Ten isn't going to spend up their timetable to make Texas happy. If the Pac 10 is ready to go, feel free to send the invitations out. I don't think the Big 10 cares one way or another. They know they need to expand to keep up with the Joneses, and they will do it the way they want.

[Blade6119]

Really? You think that only people in Oklahoma care about watching the Sooners play? Focusing on specific, local media markets is a mistake - a program like Oklahoma has broadly regional and even national appeal. Ask Joe Sportsfan with no affiliation to either school if he'd be inclined to watch an Oklahoma football game on TV, he's going to have some interest. Ask him if he wants to watch a New Mexico football game and he's most like to say "They have a football team?"

Oklahoma boosts the TV negotiating power of the Pac/Big 16. Not nearly as much as Texas, but more than pretty much any other Big-12 program (Nebraska and A&M might be on par).
Oh i agree joe schmoe is more likely to want to watch OU, but i dont believe for a second that the TV deals the networks will negotiate will be value it nearly as much as it likely should be valued. When dealing in dollars, i think media market is more highly valued unless the regional/national fan base is obvious like a ND

[TroyF]

I'm not going to bash Baylor here. They are a good school and they have better sports programs than Colorado right now. (and maybe for the future as well)

But Colorado has been flirting with the PAC 10 for years now. And "quality" of sports isn't the determining factor here. CU has a bigger TV market, a better overall academic program and more recognition.

Despite sucking hard the last five years, CU football still gets 5 to 7 national TV dates a year and is watched heavily.

One more huge advantage CU has on Baylor is the number of alumni in California. There are between 40,000 to 50,000 CU alums in CA right now and more growing by the day. There are also a ridiculous amount of CA transplants in Colorado. CU makes more sense than Baylor. I agree with Bug, if all of this stuff blows up and you only see one or two minor moves happen, one of them will be CU moving to the PAC 10. This is something that's been planned on for a long while.

[DeToxRox]

About the only thing Baylor has going for it is a decent hoops program that may or may not slide back into irrelevancy is Scott Drew leaves, and a baseball program that can make money. Neither is enough to put them in the Pac 10.

[dawgfan]

Oh i agree joe schmoe is more likely to want to watch OU, but i dont believe for a second that the TV deals the networks will negotiate will be value it nearly as much as it likely should be valued. When dealing in dollars, i think media market is more highly valued unless the regional/national fan base is obvious like a ND
I'll let JIMGa weigh in on this, but I don't think you're correct on this. People involved in advertising know damn well how attractive these various schools are and in what markets. It's not as clear-cut as saying "OKlahoma = size of Oklahoma City media market". Think about Texas - they're are far more than just the Austin media market -they appeal throughout Texas (to varying degrees of course) and have even a national appeal, both because of the prestige of the program as well as distribution of alumni. It's not as pronounced as with Notre Dame, but their appeal extends well beyond the nearest major metro areas in Texas.

I know I'm not alone as a college football fan in saying that certain teams carry more appeal to watch than others. My priorities are my team (the Huskies), then teams in my conference, then teams outside of the conference based on a variety of factors (team prestige, how they're doing this season, any compelling story lines). Because of their history and their current run of success, Oklahoma carries moderate appeal for me if I'm flipping through the TV channels. Far more so than, say, Baylor or Kansas or New Mexico.

[miked]

Baylor University (Waco) and Baylor College of Medicine (Houston) are unrelated institutions.

Interesting...thanks.

[timmynausea]

Oh i agree joe schmoe is more likely to want to watch OU, but i dont believe for a second that the TV deals the networks will negotiate will be value it nearly as much as it likely should be valued. When dealing in dollars, i think media market is more highly valued unless the regional/national fan base is obvious like a ND

If it was all about markets, the original Big East would've been a huge success instead of perpetually last in terms of TV contracts among the BCS schools. Think about it:

Rutgers and Syracuse - NYC (#1 Market)
Temple - Philly (#4 Market)
BC - Boston (#5 Market)
WVU and Pitt - Pittsburgh (#22 Market)
Miami (#17 Market)
And I'm not really sure what market VT would fall in, but you get the gist.

Even after the changes, you throw in:

USF - #12
Uconn - #28
Cincy - #34
Louisville - #50

Whatever the reason, those markets didn't help the Big East to land big contracts.

[cartman]

Baylor University (Waco) and Baylor College of Medicine (Houston) are unrelated institutions.

Not completely accurate. The medical school was part of Baylor University until sometime in the late 60s/early 70s, when the medical school split off in order to obtain federal research money. It is true that today that the College of Medicine is completely independent, but they are far from unrelated.

[Eaglesfan27]

Yes. A thousand times yes.

And a thousand times more yes. Oklahoma is one of the few teams with significant national appeal.

[Solecismic]

In terms of conference expansion, Oklahoma is basically a crimson and cream New Mexico with a better football team. Oh wait, ALBUQUERQUE IS A BIGGER MEDIA MARKET THAN OKLAHOMA CITY.

/rant

It's a multi-dimensional problem. Media market is one factor, saturation is another. Otherwise Rice would be a bigger prize than Texas and Rutgers would already be invited.

Oklahoma has more alums than New Mexico. And more a history of athletics, so those alums are more likely to love football.

Could you see a MAC Network succeeding in the same area as the Big Ten Network? They are in most of the same markets.

This is why Nebraska is far more than irrelevant in this discussion. It's more a "how much is this package worth in every different market" than an on-off switch in one market.

All eyes on Nebraska right now.

[kcchief19]

And a thousand times more yes. Oklahoma is one of the few teams with significant national appeal.
I won't necessarily dispute that some times have more appeal than others. Oklahoma vs. SMU has inherently more value than TCU vs. SMU.

But the notion that teams have significant national appeal over other comparable teams I would dispute. The last year I found numbers for was 2008 and NBC was pulling in a 2.2 rating for Notre Dame games. ESPN average a 2.0 rating for ALL games. That means that Notre Dame was only drawing 10 percent more audience than the random ESPN game -- and if you've watched Thursday Night football, you know ESPN games can be pretty darn random.

ABC's games draw twice the number that Notre Dame gets on NBC. If you gave me one of the top 10 games of the week versus a single particular school, that random game is going to win in the long run.

The reason Notre Dame has a contract with NBC is that 20 years ago when Notre Dame is good the NCAA went and cut a deal without NBC. Notre Dame was the only team that was essentially a free agent, and the only way for NBC to get football. Now, it's actually a cheap way for NBC to get a game to show most weeks of the football season.

Compelling football is all you need. If you need any proof, in 2007 the highest-rated regular season college football game of the year was Missouri-Kansas.

[sooner333]

Oh i agree joe schmoe is more likely to want to watch OU, but i dont believe for a second that the TV deals the networks will negotiate will be value it nearly as much as it likely should be valued. When dealing in dollars, i think media market is more highly valued unless the regional/national fan base is obvious like a ND

OU has a huge alumni base in Dallas. The ABC affiliate treats OU games in Dallas as if they are in a home market, meaning they will not be changed to another game even if it is a blowout. I would guess that probably more than 1/4 of the OU student body is from Texas, largely Dallas. It's not like Dallas, the fifth largest TV market in the country, is all Texas Longhorns.

[TroyF]

I'll let JIMGa weigh in on this, but I don't think you're correct on this. People involved in advertising know damn well how attractive these various schools are and in what markets. It's not as clear-cut as saying "OKlahoma = size of Oklahoma City media market". Think about Texas - they're are far more than just the Austin media market -they appeal throughout Texas (to varying degrees of course) and have even a national appeal, both because of the prestige of the program as well as distribution of alumni. It's not as pronounced as with Notre Dame, but their appeal extends well beyond the nearest major metro areas in Texas.

I know I'm not alone as a college football fan in saying that certain teams carry more appeal to watch than others. My priorities are my team (the Huskies), then teams in my conference, then teams outside of the conference based on a variety of factors (team prestige, how they're doing this season, any compelling story lines). Because of their history and their current run of success, Oklahoma carries moderate appeal for me if I'm flipping through the TV channels. Far more so than, say, Baylor or Kansas or New Mexico.


Oh, cmon, are you seriously going to tell me you'd stop channel surfing on a close OU vs. Minnesota game opposite a game of #15 New Mexico @ #23 Baylor.

Yeah, I would be too. The OU prestige means something. Anyone who thinks it doesn't is silly. (just to remind people, I went to Oklahoma St., despise everything about OU and I'd still pay more attention to an OU game vs. anyone than a battle of decent but not great football teams.)

There is a reason why traditional powerhouse programs only sleep for a number of years, but always wake up. (USC, Alabama, Michigan, Texas, Ohio St., Nebraska, etc.) They are still interesting to the rest of the country and all it takes is the right coach to come turn them around. OU being compared to New Mexico is a joke on a lot of levels.

[bhlloy]

In terms of market worth, I'm interested to know why BYU isn't more coveted by the PAC-10. I know, they wouldn't be able to play any games on Sunday which has people scared. But surely as the largest LDS school in the country they have fans and alum all over the place?

If the PAC-10/Big 12 south merger does fall through, I'd love to see the PAC-10 take a run at Colorado, Utah, BYU and UNLV. I know UNLV doesn't fit academically but... it's the Vegas media market and traditionally a good basketball team.

[Eaglesfan27]

In terms of market worth, I'm interested to know why BYU isn't more coveted by the PAC-10. I know, they wouldn't be able to play any games on Sunday which has people scared. But surely as the largest LDS school in the country they have fans and alum all over the place?

If the PAC-10/Big 12 south merger does fall through, I'd love to see the PAC-10 take a run at Colorado, Utah, BYU and UNLV. I know UNLV doesn't fit academically but... it's the Vegas media market and traditionally a good basketball team.

I've heard that Pac-10 isn't happy about having any team having a significant religious affiliation which is one small issue with Baylor.

[SnDvls]

I've heard that Pac-10 isn't happy about having any team having a significant religious affiliation which is one small issue with Baylor.

I believe it's Cal that has the issue. I'm sure ASU and UofA could care less as a game vs. BYU is always a good game for the pocketbook

[bob]

In the words of all those characters in Monty Python and the Holy Grail:

GET ON WITH IT!

Speculation is driving me crazy.

[dawgfan]

In terms of market worth, I'm interested to know why BYU isn't more coveted by the PAC-10. I know, they wouldn't be able to play any games on Sunday which has people scared. But surely as the largest LDS school in the country they have fans and alum all over the place?

If the PAC-10/Big 12 south merger does fall through, I'd love to see the PAC-10 take a run at Colorado, Utah, BYU and UNLV. I know UNLV doesn't fit academically but... it's the Vegas media market and traditionally a good basketball team.
BYU isn't worth nearly enough in terms of revenue for the conference to put up with all of the cultural differences between BYU and the existing schools. Texas is worth enough that they're possibly willing to accept Baylor if it's required to get Texas, and Oklahoma's TV appeal trumps their lesser academic standing.

[TroyF]

I believe it's Cal that has the issue. I'm sure ASU and UofA could care less as a game vs. BYU is always a good game for the pocketbook

Look at the Pac 10's overall makeup.

Berkley/Bay Area (x2)
LA, CA (x2)
Eugene, OR
Seattle, WA

While the other four schools areas are more conservative, they aren't nearly as populated as five of the schools on that list and the sixth school (Oregon) has money to burn.

The PAC 10 can spin this anyway they want to. They can say BYU isn't a research institution, that BYU doesn't play on Sunday's and any other nonsense they want to come up with. The reality is they don't want a religious school as part of their makeup. Yet another reason the PAC 10 covets CU over Baylor.

[I. J. Reilly]

any other nonsense they want to come up with

Like this?

Academic freedom at Brigham Young University - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_freedom_at_Brigham_Young_University)

[digamma]

Did Missouri hold their press conference yet?



Note: my friend on Orange Bloods says they are reporting that Colorado is having a secret meeting tonight that could lead them to accept a Pac Ten invitation tomorrow.

[dawgfan]

The PAC 10 can spin this anyway they want to. They can say BYU isn't a research institution, that BYU doesn't play on Sunday's and any other nonsense they want to come up with. The reality is they don't want a religious school as part of their makeup. Yet another reason the PAC 10 covets CU over Baylor.
I think it's more specific than just the Pac-10 doesn't want a private religious school - it's that the Pac-10 doesn't want THE private religious school for the LDS faith given the major philosophical differences between the actions of the church (and BYU) vs. what the people running the Pac-10 schools feel is appropriate.

And while academics are certainly not the primary thing driving this (otherwise the Oklahoma schools wouldn't be considered), the differences what BYU funds for research and how that school operates academically is also part of the equation.

[Scarecrow]

Transcripts released from Big 12 meetings..........

Adventures of the Big 12: Twelve Angry Men - Bring On The Cats (http://www.bringonthecats.com/2010/6/7/1506558/adventures-of-the-big-12-twelve)

This is probably the funniest (and most accurate) thing in this whole clusterfuck. I'm really partial to:

"Kansas: At this point, I have the FBI and IRS so far up my ass that they've set up a branch office in my colon. So, I'm taking him wherever I go."

[Eaglesfan27]

Did Missouri hold their press conference yet?



Note: my friend on Orange Bloods says they are reporting that Colorado is having a secret meeting tonight that could lead them to accept a Pac Ten invitation tomorrow.

Just read that article from Orange Bloods which is circulating around. Tomorrow could be a day full of sports news.

[kcchief19]

This is probably the funniest (and most accurate) thing in this whole clusterfuck. I'm really partial to:

"Kansas: At this point, I have the FBI and IRS so far up my ass that they've set up a branch office in my colon. So, I'm taking him wherever I go."
There's never a good time to have your AD testifying before a grand jury while he's being blackmailed and being investigated by the university for ethics violations. But during Conference Armageddon? I almost feel sorry for KU. Oh, I'd still walk across the street to piss on Lew Perkins, but I still almost feel sorry for the c-hawks.

[Izulde]

In terms of market worth, I'm interested to know why BYU isn't more coveted by the PAC-10. I know, they wouldn't be able to play any games on Sunday which has people scared. But surely as the largest LDS school in the country they have fans and alum all over the place?

If the PAC-10/Big 12 south merger does fall through, I'd love to see the PAC-10 take a run at Colorado, Utah, BYU and UNLV. I know UNLV doesn't fit academically but... it's the Vegas media market and traditionally a good basketball team.

I would love to see this happen, well the UNLV part anyway. The Pac-10 is a fun conference and UNLV is improving as an academic school. It's a very young institution and it's making strides towards becoming a true national research university.

...Of course, they're going to have find a way to stop the budget cuts from happening year after year or they'll be frustrated in that end goal.

[Ksyrup]

Big Ten, Notre Dame Are Talking ... Again
<ABBR class="published updated" sizset="57" sizcache="3"></ABBR>
<ABBR class="published updated" sizset="57" sizcache="3">06/08/2010 3:39 PM ET By Terrance Harris (http://www.fanhouse.com/staff/terrance-harris/)</ABBR>
Notre Dame is officially on the clock.

According to sources, the Big Ten officials and Notre Dame (http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/team/notre-dame/) officials have entered into talks that could drastically alter the realignment talk which has dominated headlines in recent days. One insider told FanHouse on Tuesday that the two sides are talking about the nation's biggest independent joining one of the most influential conferences to give the Big Ten its desired 12 members.

The source said the talks "could not necessarily" be described as negotiations but said if Notre Dame can be convinced to give up its long standing independence that things could move rather quickly. Another source familiar with the back-and-forth between Notre Dame and the Big Ten over the years believes all of the Big Ten expansion talk which began with commissioner Jim Delany's announcement last December has always been aimed at getting the Irish to join the conference.

The realization that the Big Ten's threat to add five members could trigger a reaction that would create four super 16-team conferences, and effectively put the squeeze on Notre Dame scheduling, has convinced Irish officials to again sit down at the table with the Big Ten. Earlier this decade the two sides explored the possibility of Notre Dame joining the Big Ten, but in the end the Irish opted to remain independent and enjoy a lucrative television deal with NBC.

Since then, the major conferences have shifted away from giving Notre Dame a full conference share of any BCS game it participates in and, in order to get to the national title game, the Irish have to go undefeated during the regular season.

"Now Notre Dame has to be asking themselves who will they schedule in a four-conference,16-team (per conference) environment?" the source said. "They can maybe schedule the WAC, the MAC and Sun Belt Conference. The questions are: Is that less than what NBC bargained for and will those schools get to a BCS national championship game? I'd say no."

Meanwhile, there is a strong belief that if the Big Ten is successful in luring Notre Dame that it would no longer be interested in expanding from 11 to 16 teams. Currently, the Big Ten's expansion threat has leagues such as the Big 12 and Big East in complete disarray.

The Big 12 could be looking at dissolution soon if the Big Ten is able to lure Nebraska (http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/team/nebraska/) and Missouri (http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/team/missouri/), which would then cause a chain reaction that will see Texas (http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/team/texas/), Oklahoma (http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/team/oklahoma/), Texas A&M, Oklahoma State (http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/team/oklahoma-state/), Texas Tech (http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/team/texas-tech/) and Baylor (http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/team/baylor/) or Colorado (http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/team/colorado/) join the Pac-10 schools to form a 16-team conference. The Big East, in which Notre Dame's other sports compete, also likely would implode with Rutgers (http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/team/rutgers/), Syracuse (http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/team/syracuse/) and Pitt also being targeted for Big Ten expansion.
<SCRIPT type=text/javascript src="http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/connect.php/js/FB.Share"></SCRIPT>
Most experts agree that the formation of four 16-team conferences would be good only for television partners and fattening the pockets of those leagues. Geographically, there would be major issues plus the cost of travel -- especially for the non-revenue producing sports -- would shoot up significantly.

"The same thing has been stated by the SEC commissioner, the ACC commissioner and myself, that we'd hate to see the landscape change," Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe said last week of the possibility of 16-team leagues. "We think 12 is an optimum number. We are prepared in case we need to change our membership but I think that is the number that works.

"Those of us who have been around the business for a long time feel like that's the number that works. I think it's a huge disservice to the student athlete if it grows to a bigger number where they have to go further and not have as much chance to win championships and have as much access to national championships."

Those worries all go away for now if Notre Dame and the Big Ten are able to come to an agreement.

The addition of Notre Dame would give the Big Ten and the Big Ten Network a football program with a global draw while also giving the league 12 members -- which allows for a lucrative conference championship game.

A phone message for Notre Dame athletic director Jack Swarbrick was not returned.

Notre Dame joining a conference also seems to resolve some of the issues that it will face down the road, chief among them are scheduling. Inside a conference, scheduling would not be a problem. And the conference payout of between $20 and $22 million in the Big Ten would be a significant bump from the exclusive NBC deal.

The key for Notre Dame is deciding if joining the Big Ten is worth giving up the mystique of independence.

Big Ten, Notre Dame Are Talking ... Again -- NCAAFB FanHouse (http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/2010/06/08/big-ten-notre-dame-are-talking-again/?ncid=txtlnkusspor00000002)<STYLE type=text/css> .fanhouseButton {margin:2em 0;} .fanhouseButton a:link, .fanhouseButton a:visited, .fanhouseButton a:hover, .fanhouseButton a:active {background-color:#dd2829;color:#FFFFFF;font-size:18px;padding:0.3em 0.6em;text-decoration:none;} .fanhouseButton a:hover {background-color:#000000;}</STYLE>

[DeToxRox]

If ND joins and we stick to 12 teams, great, I am cool with that. I won't lie though, the thought of adding Nebraska to the Big Ten is something I'd love to see happen and I think it would still be possible with the conference just going to 14 teams.

[Kodos]

On the other hand, not having to add Missouri (and maybe getting less MBBF in Big Ten discussions) would be a perk. :)

I think I prefer going to 16, just because it might somehow lead to playoffs down the road.

[DeToxRox]

CU says no Pac 10 invite so no PC tomorrow:

No announcement pending from CU on conference realignment
Spokesman says Pac-10 has not issued invitation to Colorado
Camera staff report
Posted: 06/08/2010 07:28:52 PM MDT

From left to right Andy Barnard from Sink Combs Dethlefs, an architecture company, stands with CU-Boulder Chancellor Phil DiStefano, CU President Bruce Benson, and CU athletic director Mike Bohn at the groundbreaking event for the new Coors events Center practice facility on March 25, 2010. ( Stephen Swofford )

DENVER -- The CU Board of Regents ended its closed-door meeting Tuesday and Ken McConnellogue, spokesman for the university, said there was no offer on the table from the Pac-10 Conference and that no announcement from the school is on tap.

A report surfaced Tuesday afternoon that the Pac-10 had extended an invitation to CU and the school would have an announcement shortly.

McConnellogue did say fans can be assured that the board and CU administrators are engaged in looking out for the school's best interests in relation to conference expansion.

The regents met behind closed doors with attorneys to discuss the school's options in regards to conference expansion and realignment.

CU athletic director Mike Bohn and Chancellor Phil DiStefano had no comment as they left the meeting.

No announcement pending from CU on conference realignment - Boulder Daily Camera (http://www.dailycamera.com/news/ci_15254981)

[DeToxRox]

BTW, talk about bad timing for Colorado:

It's unclear if Colorado will have a major announcement with regard to its future on Wednesday.

But the NCAA is expected bring some bad news to Boulder on Wednesday afternoon.

According to information obtained by OB, Colorado will have scholarship reductions in both football and basketball for failing to meet NCAA APR (Academic Progress Rates).

Colorado will be the only BCS football program in the country to get NCAA APR sanctions Wednesday as the Buffs are expected to lose four football scholarships. CU is one of only two BCS basketball programs to get sanctioned (and will lose 1 hoops scollie), OB has learned.

That's some tough timing while trying to impress the high-minded academics in the Pac-10.

[sooner333]

On the other hand, not having to add Missouri . . . would be a perk. :)


Different talking heads have said on the radio here have said:

"If the conference loses Missouri, no big deal . . . ." and "I don't want to make anyone mad, but with the way Missouri has acted through this whole thing, I don't think anyone will be too upset."

[DeToxRox]

Saw this elsewhere but it's a nifty little run down on potential Big 10 teams:

http://media.pennlive.com/davidjones/photo/bigten-1gif-cafc3a6ce509bd0a.gif

[Noop]

Based on that photo

1. Colorado - They seem like a great fit on paper but I believe location is a huge factor.

2. Pittsburgh - A natural partner for Penn State and they're bringing a solid football and basketball program.

3. UConn - If they're invited their association with the Big 10 could land them a AAU membership.

[sooner333]

Omaha Paper saying Nebraska to Big Ten as early as Friday. Again, I believe it when I hear something. http://omaha.com/article/20100608/NEWS01/100609687#nu-to-big-10-as-early-as-friday

[dawgfan]

Omaha Paper saying Nebraska to Big Ten as early as Friday. Again, I believe it when I hear something. http://omaha.com/article/20100608/NEWS01/100609687#nu-to-big-10-as-early-as-friday
Yeah, that would conflict with other reports saying Notre Dame is getting ready to say "yes" to the Big Ten, which would presumably end the Big Ten's expansion efforts at 12 teams.

I'm betting this may be Delaney pushing every button he can to try to get the Irish to commit.

[Logan]

BTW, talk about bad timing for Colorado:

And in potentially good timing for Rutgers, we finished #1 in the APR rankings. Great job by Schiano, the AD, the support staff, and the players.

[Blade6119]

Different talking heads have said on the radio here have said:

"If the conference loses Missouri, no big deal . . . ." and "I don't want to make anyone mad, but with the way Missouri has acted through this whole thing, I don't think anyone will be too upset."

I have heared this from OU media, especially tulsa, and I just dont get it...how has MU acted any different then NU, CU, or even Texas...all 4 have said they are willing to listen to offers from other conferences and have yet to publicly pledge allegiance to the Big 12. Now maybe Texas has and I missed it, because they do have a sweetheart deal, but they have been just as if not more so inviting of offers from the Pac 10 and Big 10 recently that this just screams double standard to me. No one will call them on it because they have all the power, but this sentiment really pissed me off as ignorant when half of the conference is actively campaigning for their expansion places in other conferences then criticize Mizzou for doing exactly the same thing. Give me one example of a mizzou rep saying they want to go the the Big 10. The governor of Missouri has said they should go, but Alden, Pinkel, Anderson, they have all been steadfast in not saying they have to leave. They have said the Big 12 needs changes like revenue sharing, which I think anyone intelligent would agree with, but this sentiment flat out is ignorant. Has NU pledged its membership? Has CU? No, so it just sounds stupid to single out Mizzou to me

End Rant

[the_meanstrosity]

I have heared this from OU media, especially tulsa, and I just dont get it...how has MU acted any different then NU, CU, or even Texas...all 4 have said they are willing to listen to offers from other conferences and have yet to publicly pledge allegiance to the Big 12. Now maybe Texas has and I missed it, because they do have a sweetheart deal, but they have been just as if not more so inviting of offers from the Pac 10 and Big 10 recently that this just screams double standard to me. No one will call them on it because they have all the power, but this sentiment really pissed me off as ignorant when half of the conference is actively campaigning for their expansion places in other conferences then criticize Mizzou for doing exactly the same thing. Give me one example of a mizzou rep saying they want to go the the Big 10. The governor of Missouri has said they should go, but Alden, Pinkel, Anderson, they have all been steadfast in not saying they have to leave. They have said the Big 12 needs changes like revenue sharing, which I think anyone intelligent would agree with, but this sentiment flat out is ignorant. Has NU pledged its membership? Has CU? No, so it just sounds stupid to single out Mizzou to me

End Rant

I think it's because of articles like this:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/13391613/showme-mizzou-feels-it-has-done-enough-to-earn-big-ten-invite

Me personally, I have more disdain for Missouri and Colorado not because of things they've done recently, but because those two schools were the only north schools to vote for moving the Big 12 headquarters from Kansas City to Dallas as well as hiring Steve Hatchell (former SWC commissioner). Years later they are complaining about the power in Texas when those two institutions were the major reason the power was transferred there.

[DeToxRox]

LINCOLN — An executive at a Big 12 school relayed to The World-Herald on Tuesday that he expects Nebraska to become a member of the Big Ten as early as Friday.

NU Chancellor Harvey Perlman has declined all interviews about conference realignment and expansion. He is expected to address the topic with the Board of Regents at its Friday meeting in Lincoln.

Direct confirmation from Nebraska of a conference change for the Huskers wasn't immediately available. Sources at two other Big 12 schools told The World-Herald that their athletic directors have instructed them to be ready by week's end for a briefing on probable Big 12 changes.

Nebraska A.D. Tom Osborne offered implicit confirmation Tuesday night that the timetable on national conference realignment has been accelerated.

On his monthly appearance on the Husker Sports Network, Osborne said:

“I think before too long — I don't know exactly what that time frame is — we'll be able to put this to bed,'' then he jokingly added, “because I'm getting tired of it.''

The Big Ten first revealed on Dec. 15 that it was considering expansion, and that it would take 12 to 18 months to act.

Now, six months after that initial announcement, multiple sources have indicated that the Big Ten is prepared to add one to five schools (including Nebraska), and that the Pacific 10 is courting all six schools from the Big 12 South Division.

“There's a lot of information we really don't have right now,'' Osborne said. “Hopefully we'll get these put together in the next few days.

“Anything I would say regarding Nebraska's position or other schools in the Big 12 would be pure speculation. And I don't think that's very helpful.''

Another issue Osborne addressed is recent speculation that he has a personal grudge against Texas or that he is basing decisions on some hatred of the Longhorns.

“We certainly don't have anything against anybody in the Big 12,'' Osborne said. “This decision is not going to be based on animosity or petty jealousy. You're talking about something that could maintain for the next 75 to 100 years.

“This is a big deal in terms of the University of Nebraska. It's a big deal for other institutions. You don't ever make a decision based on personal likes and dislikes.''

Osborne said he gets along “very well'' with Texas A.D. DeLoss Dodds, and is a “great admirer'' of UT football coach Mack Brown.

“This is not a case of reacting to any one school,'' Osborne said, “particularly Texas.''

Earlier Tuesday, The World-Herald requested an interview with Dodds. His spokesman, from Austin, Texas, said Dodds was unavailable because of a personal commitment.

http://omaha.com/article/20100608/NEWS01/100609687#nu-to-big-10-as-early-as-friday

Bruce Feldman retweeted this on twitter, no idea if he was confirming it or not. Still speculation but people around Nebraska seem to think it is legit.

[Matthean]

http://omaha.com/article/20100608/NEWS01/100609687#nu-to-big-10-as-early-as-friday

Bruce Feldman retweeted this on twitter, no idea if he was confirming it or not. Still speculation but people around Nebraska seem to think it is legit.

Well, there is the problem of the Big 10 not exactly handing out an invite as of yet either, but I think that would be a non-issue if Nebraska was so willing to go.

The source said the school is leaning toward the Big Ten, but an invitation hadn't yet been extended, and there was no indication when that would occur. The consensus within the athletic department is that Nebraska wouldn't separate itself from the Big 12 without some assurance that a Big Ten invitation would come, the source said. The Big Ten has set no date for any announcement in the coming weeks, leaving open the possibility that Nebraska could be left in limbo.

Source: Nebraska leaning toward Big Ten move - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5265631)

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[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Omaha Paper saying Nebraska to Big Ten as early as Friday. Again, I believe it when I hear something. http://omaha.com/article/20100608/NEWS01/100609687#nu-to-big-10-as-early-as-friday

I still can not honestly believe how many people are erroneously reporting that Notre Dame is interested in being the 12th team. The NU and MU deals are done. NU has been wanting to make an announcement all week to end the speculation, but the Big Ten president has asked them to wait until tomorrow. The Big 10 plans to add three teams in the next week or two, but that won't be the end of the expansion. They will add two more teams before the school year begins.

[Eaglesfan27]

Omaha Paper saying Nebraska to Big Ten as early as Friday. Again, I believe it when I hear something. http://omaha.com/article/20100608/NEWS01/100609687#nu-to-big-10-as-early-as-friday

ESPN had a quote from Osborne that was to the effect of, I'm getting tired of all of this talk, something will be decided very soon. I hope Nebraska goes soon, that should set the dominoes moving.

[lungs]

They'll keep putting rumors out there that an announcement is forthcoming in the next few days. This will continue to happen for months.

[Ksyrup]

Osborne might be saying things like that, and the school leaking the Friday date, because they really want to leave the Big 12 for the Big 10 and they are trying to put some pressure on the Big 10 to finalize the deal ASAP. Maybe this means the Big 10 has not informally agreed with them on this (or at least, doesn't want to make piecemeal moves and could leave them hanging while they sort out the other moving pieces).

From Nebraska's perspective, Friday makes all the sense in the world - they want to do it, and if it happens then, they can say they were upfront with the Big 12. The longer this drags on, and if NU has no intent/desire to stay in the Big 12, it makes them look like a bad conference partner. But they can't move without some real assurance from the Big 10.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

But they can't move without some real assurance from the Big 10.

Notre Dame is the only reason an announcement hasn't come sooner.

[Ksyrup]

But if ND as the 12th team isn't the issue, and expansion is happening and it's just a matter of which teams come after NU and MU, then why the wait? If the Big 10 allows NU and MMU to dangle on the Big 12 deadline, then there HAS to be something to the idea that the Big 10 only wants ND as #12. Otherwise, the waiting and putting NU and MU in limbo makes no sense. But we're a few days away from that. I guess we'll find out.

[Ksyrup]

Bruce Feldman retweeted this on twitter, no idea if he was confirming it or not.

Bruce Feldman also wrote an article about Texas A&M primed for a run at the Big 12 conference championship, so I wouldn't put too much stock in what he says. :D

[Ksyrup]

Just to switch gears a bit and look at the SEC possibilities (specifically FSU, which I care about), here's an article discussing the possible ramifications of expansion on the Florida schools:

Conference expansion: Impact on Gators, Seminoles and Knights (http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_college/2010/06/conference-expansion-impact-on-gators-seminoles-and-knights.html)
Florida (http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_college/category/florida), Florida State (http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_college/category/florida-state), SEC (http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_college/category/sec), UCF (http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_college/category/ucf), USF (http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_college/category/usf), college football (http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_college/category/college-football), expansion (http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_college/category/expansion) — posted by andrea adelson on June, 8 2010 7:30 AM

Conference expansion seems to be on the fast track, so it is time to pose the question — how does this impact local schools?

The topic was a popular one on the live chat I held yesterday, so let’s explore it some more.

First, we start with UF. Gators beat writer Jeremy Fowler had a good breakdown of where the SEC stands as the Pac-10 and Big Ten explore their expansion opportunities. (http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_college_uf/2010/06/an-sec-perspective-on-college-expansion.html)It seems nobody in the league is much concerned with expanding, because its lucrative TV deal still puts it in prime position even if the Pac-10 or Big Ten expand to 16 teams.


The SEC has done internal studies on expansion. So let’s throw out a hypothetical. Say that the SEC decides it needs to grow to 16 teams because everybody else is growing to 16 teams. That leads us to Florida State and Miami.

Back in 1989, both schools were interested in the SEC, and the SEC was interested in them. FSU and UM were independents, and huge football draws for the league. But ultimately, both decided to go someplace else. FSU joined the ACC in 1990; Miami the Big East in 1990. Interestingly, I found this quote from then-FSU coach Bobby Bowden in The Washington Post about why the ACC was more attractive than the SEC at that time, dated Oct. 31, 1990:

“With the SEC, we’d really be sectionalized if we played there, played a schedule of Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia and so and so,” Bowden said. “You can’t afford to take on all of them and Notre Dame, Miami and Florida unless you want to go 7-4 every year, at the best.”

Then-Miami athletic director Sam Jankovic cited the school’s large alumni base in the Northeast for the reason it joined the Big East, which ultimately added football. The Hurricanes were interested in the ACC, but the conference didn’t want to add a 10th member at the time.

Both schools would presumably be on the SEC radar once again. Both would presumably be interested. FSU athletic director Randy Spetman told The Orlando Sentinel last month the SEC was on his school’s radar just in case. (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-05-11/sports/os-acc-meetings-0512-20100511_1_athletic-director-randy-spetman-fsu-coach-bobby-bowden-acc)

Would UF attempt to block their entry? That is a debatable question. There is much urban legend that says UF blocked FSU back in 1989 but there is no proof of that happening. What about today?

The SEC requires 9 of the 12 SEC presidents to vote for entry into the league — not a unanimous decision. While the Gators are huge rivals to FSU and Miami, and wouldn’t want their rivals to start raking in the cash they rake in from the SEC, what good would blocking both schools do them? There are other attractive options out there, but the SEC would increase its footprint into South Florida and bring in two football powers that are regaining their national rep. Virginia Tech is attractive for expansion into Virginia; North Carolina as well. Are they more attractive than Miami and FSU? Are Clemson and Georgia Tech more attractive than UM and FSU? I would say no.

Now we come to USF and UCF. Expansion could help or hurt both depending on how everything plays out. UCF beat writer Iliana Limon believes UCF is in good position, having talked to officials who believe the school is a strong candidate in expansion. (http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_college_ucf/2010/06/what-does-the-latest-conference-expansion-news-mean-for-ucf.html)

Could blocking play a role here — would USF begrudgingly give up any attempt to block UCF from joining it in a BCS conference? Coach Jim Leavitt was adamant against UCF, but he is gone. Does that mean feelings have softened? I believe their futures are tied together and they most likely would end up in the same league.

Possibilities:

1) the Big East if the Big Ten adds just one team to go to 12.

2) some sort of Big East/ACC formation depending on how many teams are raided from their conference. Could be 4 from the ACC and 3 from the Big East. New conference could feature the leftover 13 plus three more.

3) a non-BCS league after all the seats are filled into the BCS. USF isn’t guaranteed to keep its spot in a BCS league depending on what happens.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

As if there weren't enough confusion in the matter, the only group more dysfunctional than Dan Beebe is considering entering the fray........

http://www.omaha.com/article/20100609/NEWS03/706099921#big-12-breakup-a-federal-case

[Matthean]

Notre Dame is the only reason an announcement hasn't come sooner.

The Big Ten said they would look at doing 14 teams. They could do Missouri, Nebraska, ND, and Rutgers.

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[Ksyrup]

Exactly. If ND as #12 only isn't an issue, then why would ND be holding up the announcement of NU and MU?

[Swaggs]

The Big Ten said they would look at doing 14 teams. They could do Missouri, Nebraska, ND, and Rutgers.

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That would be 15.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Exactly. If ND as #12 only isn't an issue, then why would ND be holding up the announcement of NU and MU?

Because the negotiation process regarding money split and TV contracts with ND is more complicated than MU and NU. They want to announce the teams at the same time if possible.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

That would be 15.

Syracuse would be the other one assuming Notre Dame joins the league.

[JonInMiddleGA]

the only group more dysfunctional than Dan Beebe is considering entering the fray........

The Clippers want to play football?

(btw, your link is broken, The article requested can not be found! Please refresh your browser or go back. (OW,20100609,AP,706099921,AR). The article requested can not be found! Please refresh your browser or go back. (OW,20100609,AP,706099921,AR). The article requested can not be found! Please refresh your browser or go back. (OW,20100609,AP,706099921,AR).

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

The Clippers want to play football?

(btw, your link is broken, The article requested can not be found! Please refresh your browser or go back. (OW,20100609,AP,706099921,AR). The article requested can not be found! Please refresh your browser or go back. (OW,20100609,AP,706099921,AR). The article requested can not be found! Please refresh your browser or go back. (OW,20100609,AP,706099921,AR).

Should be fixed. Thanks.

[I. J. Reilly]

http://barkingcarnival.fantake.com/2010/06/08/baylor-courts-pac-10-ignoring-court-order/

I guess $20mil a year is worth looking a little desperate for, but come on Baylor, have a little self respect.

[MrBug708]

http://www.isutobig10.com/posts/images/location.jpg

[SnDvls]

As if there weren't enough confusion in the matter, the only group more dysfunctional than Dan Beebe is considering entering the fray........

http://www.omaha.com/article/20100609/NEWS03/706099921#big-12-breakup-a-federal-case

I find it funny that they only are now getting involved once they see that KU and KSU might be on the outside. Where were they when the SEC signed their big TV contract awhile back? Or when the B10 network was created?

[Logan]

I find it funny that they only are now getting involved once they see that KU and KSU might be on the outside. Where were they when the SEC signed their big TV contract awhile back? Or when the B10 network was created?

Or when the Big 8 took teams from the Southwest Conference to form the Big 12?

[Swaggs]

I'm still bitter that nearly the entire Southern Conference broke off to form the ACC and left WVU behind. :)

[Chubby]

If they went to super conferecnes and broke away from the NCAA, could this also be an end run around title IX?

[Celeval]

If they went to super conferecnes and broke away from the NCAA, could this also be an end run around title IX?

As I understand it, Title IX applies to the universities, not directly to NCAA. So splitting from the NCAA wouldn't matter, as the schools would still need to be in compliance with a federal law.

[digamma]

As I understand it, Title IX applies to the universities, not directly to NCAA. So splitting from the NCAA wouldn't matter, as the schools would still need to be in compliance with a federal law.

Correct. It applies to the institutions who receive federal funding.

[Chubby]

but if they were alse to substantially increase their revenue by cutting out the slackers, could they do away with federal money and ignore title ix? I don't know the amount of $ they get from the feds so I'm not sure if it's feasible.

[digamma]

but if they were alse to substantially increase their revenue by cutting out the slackers, could they do away with federal money and ignore title ix? I don't know the amount of $ they get from the feds so I'm not sure if it's feasible.

No. Federal money comes in the form of general student financial aid and other direct grants used across universities. College football isn't going to pay for your kid to go to Syracuse to study computer science.

[Celeval]

but if they were alse to substantially increase their revenue by cutting out the slackers, could they do away with federal money and ignore title ix? I don't know the amount of $ they get from the feds so I'm not sure if it's feasible.

Possible but unlikely; plus there are a number of similar state-level laws which don't have the federal funding piece in it.

[spleen1015]

How is it possible for them to break away from the NCAA?

[Celeval]

No. Federal money comes in the form of general student financial aid and other direct grants used across universities. College football isn't going to pay for your kid to go to Syracuse to study computer science.

+1

And for that matter, they wouldn't have to leave the NCAA in order to do that.

[Chubby]

That's why I asked :)

[cartman]

MBBF, do you have any relatives that are A&M fans?

A&M Might Be The Most Attractive Expansion Candidate For Other Conferences - I Am The 12th Man (http://www.iamthe12thman.com/2010/6/9/1509243/a-m-might-be-the-most-attractive)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

MBBF, do you have any relatives that are A&M fans?

A&M Might Be The Most Attractive Expansion Candidate For Other Conferences - I Am The 12th Man (http://www.iamthe12thman.com/2010/6/9/1509243/a-m-might-be-the-most-attractive)

No, all my close relatives still have a full set of teeth.

[MrBug708]

While we are at ending Title IX, lets get separate dressing rooms for blacks as well

[Solecismic]

Colorado, 'Cuse penalized for academic failures, could lose scholarships - CBSSports.com (http://www.cbssports.com/general/story/13500719/colorado-cuse-penalized-for-academic-failures-could-lose-scholarships)

This should end Syracuse to the Big Ten speculation.

[Coffee Warlord]

Colorado, 'Cuse penalized for academic failures, could lose scholarships - CBSSports.com (http://www.cbssports.com/general/story/13500719/colorado-cuse-penalized-for-academic-failures-could-lose-scholarships)

This should end Syracuse to the Big Ten speculation.

Not surprised CU athletics got hit. Hell, they keep the athletes in dorms so far away from campus you actually have to take a 5 minute ride on a shuttle bus to get to any classroom.

[Marmel]

Colorado, 'Cuse penalized for academic failures, could lose scholarships - CBSSports.com (http://www.cbssports.com/general/story/13500719/colorado-cuse-penalized-for-academic-failures-could-lose-scholarships)

This should end Syracuse to the Big Ten speculation.

Syracuse already served the loss of scholarship penalty this past year. Shouldn't be too big a deal since it is not an annual even for them.

http://www.suathletics.com/news/2010/6/9/GEN_0609103345.aspx

[kcchief19]

I think it's because of articles like this:

Show-Me? Mizzou feels it has done enough to earn Big Ten invite - NCAA Football - CBSSports.com (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/13391613/showme-mizzou-feels-it-has-done-enough-to-earn-big-ten-invite)

Me personally, I have more disdain for Missouri and Colorado not because of things they've done recently, but because those two schools were the only north schools to vote for moving the Big 12 headquarters from Kansas City to Dallas as well as hiring Steve Hatchell (former SWC commissioner). Years later they are complaining about the power in Texas when those two institutions were the major reason the power was transferred there.
Funny thing is that the writer of that article, Dennis Dodd, is a Missouri alum. For some reason he's been dead set againt Missouri going to the Big 12 and has done everything he can to argue against it.

At the time and even now I think it was mistake to vote to move the Big 12 office. However, we made the deal because the Texas schools agreed to leave the Big 12 basketball tournament in KC and never touch it ... and agreement that reneged on. It was a good deal except you can't trust the trading partner.

As for Hatchell, KU and Nebraska gave us no choice. They backed the KU athletic director Bob Frederick for the commissioner job, and politically with the fans, politicians and everyone else, there was no way Missouri could vote for Frederick. If the roles had been reversed, no way would KU have voted Dan Devine for commissioner. The North should have identified a consensus candidate without ties to any school. Instead, KU and Nebraska forced us into the Hatchell or Frederick. We tried to broker a deal with the south to at least get something for their commissioner and HQ.

How did we not all realize at the time the Big 12 was doomed to fail because everyone hated everyone else?

[JonInMiddleGA]

This should end Syracuse to the Big Ten speculation.

Or would it?

I mean, check the data for the most recent year (this appears to be only a single year score, not the rolling average) at NCAA - Academic Progress Rate (http://web1.ncaa.org/maps/aprRelease.jsp)

Both IU and Purdue men's basketball programs are currently below the 925 cutline, with Purdue men's golf & Ohio State basketball just barely above it.

While one year isn't the threshold for issues, it does show how easily a school can have a team run into problems with this.

edit to add: I may have misspoke, the score ARE labeled as "multi-year", so I'm not sure why this doesn't match what the article says.
double edit: Nebraska men's basketball also has a multi-year score of 925, exactly at the cutline cited in the article. Then again, so does the Cal Tech men's wrestling team.

[Logan]

The official announcement of what I had indicated earlier on:

Rutgers Football Earns Prestigious #1 National Ranking in NCAA Academic Progress Rate (http://scarletknights.com/football/news/release.asp?prID=9292)

[DeToxRox]

Well, it's being reported by tons of places now that Nebraska will officially announce they are leaving the Big 12 on Friday.

And here we go.

[Marmel]

Rutgers (992)
Air Force (988)
Rice (987)
Northwestern (986)
Duke (983)

A pantheon of football power. ;)

[kcchief19]

The radio station here that "broke" the story about the Big Ten making "initial offers" last mont hand is spinning a new doomsday scenario right now. They say sources in Columbia indicate the Big Ten has said they will not have an offer to join the conference this week. However, Nebraska will have an offer to consider at their meeting Friday.

There is speculation among the Missouri crowd that the Big Ten may be backing off and decided if Notre Dame won't go, they will only add Nebraska as a 12th team and wait to expand to 14 or 16.

If Nebraska goes, the South will go as well -- unless Colorado is able to stave off Baylor.

Here's their ultimate armageddon scenario. While the Big 12 bylaws require a super majority of 9 votes to make any bylaw changes, the conference is a Delaware corporation. Delaware law (allegedly) requires only a majority vote to dissolve the corporation.

So, if the South and NU bolt the conference, they could vote 7-5 to dissolve the Big 12. In that case, penalties for leaving the conference would be waived. That would leave the MU, KU, K-State, Iowa State and BU/CU alone in the cold with no money from penalties.

If you thought the Big East/ACC lawsuits were something, wait til this sorts its way out.

[dawgfan]

Colorado, 'Cuse penalized for academic failures, could lose scholarships - CBSSports.com (http://www.cbssports.com/general/story/13500719/colorado-cuse-penalized-for-academic-failures-could-lose-scholarships)

This should end Syracuse to the Big Ten speculation.
You think so? I get the impression the conferences are far more concerned with things like whether a school is a part of the AAU and what their research profile and funding is.

[MJ4H]

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y257/Gorgonian14/runaway.gif

[DeToxRox]

Saw this post on a Missouri blog which shows what KC is talking about:

Here is the latest, and very distrubing, news on the Big 10 front. NU has received an offer from the Big 10, and will accept the invitation over the objection of Osborne who has described himslef as getting "cold feet" recently over the move. However, others "above his pay-grade" have already made the call, and Nebraska is going to the Big 10.

MU has not received an offer, and likely will not for the foreseeable future. Although we had reached an "understanding" with the Big 10, Notre Dame has since reentered the picture and has "refused to be put on a clock" concerning their decision for membership in the Big 10. Thus, the Big 10 is now making the decision to offer only Nebraska and take a wait-and-see approach on further offers for now until the Notre Dame issue is resolved.

Now, this is where it has gotten very scary for us: Texas has made it very clear to all involved that they have 5 other institutions waiting to, in their words, "bolt for the Pac 10" the moment Nebraska announces its agreement with the Big 10. This, according to them, is a "done deal" with the Pac 10 (As a parentthetical, it appears that Baylor, not CU will be part of that move, given Texas' insistence to the Pac 10, but I did not verify that fact for certain).

Thus, here is the position we are now in. Texas' (and other's) lawyers have concluded that it takes a simple majority to dissolve the Big 12. After Nebrasksa announces, the gang of six, either with or without Nebraska, can vote to dissolve the Big 12 as a conference (which they would all have a massive vested financial interest in doing). This would have the legal effect of, among other things, removing the financial penalties for withdrawl from the conference (estimted at almost $15 million per leaving institution, or roughly $105 million in total), as well as removing us as a BCS conference and dissolving our TV contract. In essence, we are about to be left holding an empty bag with very little recourse if any.

Why would the Big 10 do this to us? Jim delany is a shark, and he gets/understands all of the above. By simply bringing in one big 12 school (Nebraska, not MU), he can destroy the Big 12 as a conference (his major competitor for the midwest market) and still leave himself up to 5 slots to play with (Delaney, as he should be, cares only about what is best for his employer. This is business to him). He can then offer MU at his leisure at a later date, or not, as they see fit. Furthermore, Delaney gets that MU has some bargaining leverage at the moment as a member of the Big 12. Remove that membership (which everyone now gets will follow with certitude), and MU will clearly be willing to entertain a future Big 10 offer at a much better price for the Big 10 than what we would take toady. So even if the Big 10 ultimately wants MU, they still can get us but at a price that saves their membership millions fo dollars (i.e. - We, unlike Nebraska, will not be given full equity partnership for several years at a minimum - Or would need to buy our way in).

I wish it were not so. But I am certain that what I just wrote is about to befall us. Ugh.

[mckerney]

Saw this post on a Missouri blog which shows what KC is talking about:

But, but, I thought the whole reason for Big Ten expansion was to bring in Missouri? :confused:

[MJ4H]

This whole thing just went up about 100 points on the holy shit hold on to your butts o meter.

[Warhammer]

This is what I heard earlier. I also heard that ND will be going if Nebraska goes.

[cuervo72]

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y257/Gorgonian14/runaway.gif

That's one great smilie.

[timmynausea]

I think there can only be one explanation for the Big Ten holding off on inviting Missouri: Tom Izzo is scared shitless of Mike Anderson.

[MJ4H]

Bah what does the Cavs coach care about Mike Anderson?

[DeToxRox]

Another gem from LSUFreek:

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii220/Llama38/Nebraska_Big10_Bound.gif

[MJ4H]

I love that he made the big 12 (and big 10!) all tractors and big fields and pastures. That is probably what makes it funniest.

[TroyF]

In the scenario above. . . CU, Iowa St. Kansas, Kansas ST. and Mizzou are all in deep, deep crap.

(under the assumption Texas really has the power to move Baylor in over CU, I'm still not sure that can/will happen)

The Big 12 will disband and the remaining five teams in the north (or Baylor in the South) would be left on an island with nowhere to go. Just breaking this down to athletics, everything but KU basketball would be an afterthought for all of the schools involved. The revenue loss would be monumental.

Honestly, it would probably serve the dirtbags up at CU right. They've talked for years about how worthless football is, now they'll get proof positive of how wrong they are. I think Iowa St. and KState would go somewhere fast. What would Mizzou, CU or KU do? Where would they end up when the dust settled.

Yikes.

[Ksyrup]

Missouri was the lynchpin in all of this...as the patsy?

[DeToxRox]

In the scenario above. . . CU, Iowa St. Kansas, Kansas ST. and Mizzou are all in deep, deep crap.

(under the assumption Texas really has the power to move Baylor in over CU, I'm still not sure that can/will happen)

The Big 12 will disband and the remaining five teams in the north (or Baylor in the South) would be left on an island with nowhere to go. Just breaking this down to athletics, everything but KU basketball would be an afterthought for all of the schools involved. The revenue loss would be monumental.

Honestly, it would probably serve the dirtbags up at CU right. They've talked for years about how worthless football is, now they'll get proof positive of how wrong they are. I think Iowa St. and KState would go somewhere fast. What would Mizzou, CU or KU do? Where would they end up when the dust settled.

Yikes.

I have no idea what they do. Nothing seems feasible to me for them. Do they try and raid the MWC? The teams they'd get would make a solid football conference but it won't bring them much money. Kansas can probably go to the Big East, but who knows honestly?

Really crazy if this plays out.

[I. J. Reilly]

If MBBF doesn’t show up soon, I’m going to start to worry. He wouldn’t do anything crazy, would he?

[DeToxRox]

If MBBF doesn’t show up soon, I’m going to start to worry. He wouldn’t do anything crazy, would he?

Hope he decided to hold off on his Big 10 tattoo.

[MrBug708]

In the scenario above. . . CU, Iowa St. Kansas, Kansas ST. and Mizzou are all in deep, deep crap.

(under the assumption Texas really has the power to move Baylor in over CU, I'm still not sure that can/will happen)

The Big 12 will disband and the remaining five teams in the north (or Baylor in the South) would be left on an island with nowhere to go. Just breaking this down to athletics, everything but KU basketball would be an afterthought for all of the schools involved. The revenue loss would be monumental.

Honestly, it would probably serve the dirtbags up at CU right. They've talked for years about how worthless football is, now they'll get proof positive of how wrong they are. I think Iowa St. and KState would go somewhere fast. What would Mizzou, CU or KU do? Where would they end up when the dust settled.

Yikes.

I know that the Big-12 needs to have 6 members of a conference for 5 years, but what if the remaining Big-12 teams invite 6 MWC teams and BSU? Doesn't that technically fill the parameters?

[MrBug708]

Hope he decided to hold off on his Big 10 tattoo.

Or...wanna get away?

[timmynausea]

Thought this was a pretty interesting post on the possibilities for SEC expansion from an FSU board:

According to the sports chatter show in Virginia this morning, the SEC has had only high level discussions to date, and has discussed pros and cons of adding different teams, including ones that are package deals. This means teams like Texas will not be invited alone. Keys are cultural fit, geography, finacial incentive and athletic compatibility to existing SEC programs.

Interestingly unlike the Big X and Pac X discussions, academics have not been a sticky point for SEC targets. It boils mostly on preserving the SEC athletic tradition, culture and improving the bottom line.

The following were discussed:
Texas + A&M + Texas Tech (AD's are worried Texas will exert too much influence on conference, and about the cultural fit)
North Carolina + NC State (AD's are not convinced they will accept)
Virginia + Va Tech (AD's are not convinced they will accept)
Maryland (Concerns about Cultural fit + Geography, also not convinced they will accept)
FSU (Mild concerns about financials)
Ga Tech (Some concerns about financials)
Clemson (Some concerns about financials)
West Virginia (Some concerns about financials)
Louisville (Some concerns about financials)
Memphis (Serious concerns about financials)
Miami (Serious concerns about financials

* Texas schools are unlikely targets for the SEC, with Foley & Co. having no interest in bringing in a new "top dog", especially with A&M + Tech in tow.
* The NC and Virginia schools are attractive targets for the SEC, but they will only publicly invite if they can feel guaranteed they will accept. And they do not see them accepting.
* FSU is the most popular target for all AD's except Foley. There is some concern that there are not many new TV sets being added, but a feeling that FSU has a national draw.
* Much less interested in Miami than I expected (lumped in with Memphis in terms of value to the converence in their discussions). Only way Miami would be looked at is if FSU for some reason demanded Miami be included.
* Most popular targets outside of above are Ga Tech, Clemson, West Va and Louisville.
* West Va + Louisville (or even Memphis) would be the most conservative and cost-beneficial route in the short term. Could offer them membership with a reduced slice of the pie for the first 5 years while they work on renengotiating contracts. All 3 would be willing to accept a "trial" membership even with a much smaller slice of the revenue sharing pie. This would be a win-win for the SEC members. FSU, Clemson, GA Tech will not leave unless money is substantial, and it would be hard for the SEC to make the money substantial enough. All 3 also enjoy the academic benefits of ACC membership and use it as a recruiting advantage and fear their recruiting will actually suffer moving to the SEC.

All very interesting. But I get the feeling there's a good chance that SEC expansion won't even impact the ACC. This was first I heard of chasing the smaller fish and giving them smaller shares of the pie, but it makes sense in many ways.

[Blade6119]

This makes perfect sense from the Big 10's perspective, although it does fuck my mizzou tigers over pretty badly

[MrBug708]

What if Missouri was just playing the Big-10 and the real goal was joining the PAC-10? :)

[JonInMiddleGA]

I have no idea what they do. Nothing seems feasible to me for them. Do they try and raid the MWC? The teams they'd get would make a solid football conference but it won't bring them much money. Kansas can probably go to the Big East, but who knows honestly?

I'm not sure I see anything that would make more sense (and be more feasible) than CU going to one of the western conferences (MWC) and then Iowa St. Kansas, K-State, and Mizzou all going to C-USA which would expand it to 16.

Extremely imperfect solution but is there really a better idea (because I just refuse to consider Kansas going to a conference named East anything)?

[Logan]

Interestingly unlike the Big X and Pac X discussions, academics have not been a sticky point for SEC targets.

No shit.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Thought this was a pretty interesting post on the possibilities for SEC expansion from an FSU board:

As for Louisville, I'm not sure Kentucky would go for them being added. Not enough to stop the move but I'd think they'd have to be strongly against it at least privately.

Similarly, I don't see UT or Vandy going along easily with even the slightest suggestion of Memphis.

West Virginia, on the other hand, I'm not sure there would be specific opposition to from a "who the team is" standpoint, so I could easily imagine them being in play but who to partner them with even in a two-team expansion is tough for me to come up with a clear frontrunner.

On the whole, I agree with much of what you posted from that FSU board though.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

The radio station here that "broke" the story about the Big Ten making "initial offers" last mont hand is spinning a new doomsday scenario right now. They say sources in Columbia indicate the Big Ten has said they will not have an offer to join the conference this week. However, Nebraska will have an offer to consider at their meeting Friday.

There is speculation among the Missouri crowd that the Big Ten may be backing off and decided if Notre Dame won't go, they will only add Nebraska as a 12th team and wait to expand to 14 or 16.

If Nebraska goes, the South will go as well -- unless Colorado is able to stave off Baylor.

Here's their ultimate armageddon scenario. While the Big 12 bylaws require a super majority of 9 votes to make any bylaw changes, the conference is a Delaware corporation. Delaware law (allegedly) requires only a majority vote to dissolve the corporation.

So, if the South and NU bolt the conference, they could vote 7-5 to dissolve the Big 12. In that case, penalties for leaving the conference would be waived. That would leave the MU, KU, K-State, Iowa State and BU/CU alone in the cold with no money from penalties.

If you thought the Big East/ACC lawsuits were something, wait til this sorts its way out.

There's a TON of things that have to fall in place for this scenario and even Kietzmann noted that this isn't anywhere close to a done deal. But it's certainly an interesting twist to be sure. The Big Ten had talked with Mizzou as recently as yesterday saying that a bid would be sent. We'll have to see what plays out tomorrow.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

If MBBF doesn’t show up soon, I’m going to start to worry. He wouldn’t do anything crazy, would he?

Your concern is very much appreciated. However, the rest of the board likely hates you right now. I had a noose around my neck and was going to jump off the stool. Your post made me reconsider, thereby allowing me to survive my fate and post on this board for years to come.

[MrBug708]

There's a TON of things that have to fall in place for this scenario and even Kietzmann noted that this isn't anywhere close to a done deal. But it's certainly an interesting twist to be sure. The Big Ten had talked with Mizzou as recently as yesterday saying that a bid would be sent. We'll have to see what plays out tomorrow.

After this is done, Missouri needs to fire its whole athletic department. Nobody can keep a secret to save their life.

[Ksyrup]

Reading message boards with a noose around your neck - now THAT's serious boarding!

[I. J. Reilly]

Your concern is very much appreciated. However, the rest of the board likely hates you right now. I had a noose around my neck and was going to jump off the stool. Your post made me reconsider, thereby allowing me to survive my fate and post on this board for years to come.

Living for spite is still living:)

[Blade6119]

After this is done, Missouri needs to fire its whole athletic department. Nobody can keep a secret to save their life.

And what school can keep a secret? Look at UCLA and the Wear twins, that secret was out sooo far in advance :lol:

[the_meanstrosity]

Funny thing is that the writer of that article, Dennis Dodd, is a Missouri alum. For some reason he's been dead set againt Missouri going to the Big 12 and has done everything he can to argue against it.

At the time and even now I think it was mistake to vote to move the Big 12 office. However, we made the deal because the Texas schools agreed to leave the Big 12 basketball tournament in KC and never touch it ... and agreement that reneged on. It was a good deal except you can't trust the trading partner.

As for Hatchell, KU and Nebraska gave us no choice. They backed the KU athletic director Bob Frederick for the commissioner job, and politically with the fans, politicians and everyone else, there was no way Missouri could vote for Frederick. If the roles had been reversed, no way would KU have voted Dan Devine for commissioner. The North should have identified a consensus candidate without ties to any school. Instead, KU and Nebraska forced us into the Hatchell or Frederick. We tried to broker a deal with the south to at least get something for their commissioner and HQ.

How did we not all realize at the time the Big 12 was doomed to fail because everyone hated everyone else?

I don't know where you're getting that KC was promised the Big 12 basketball tourney every year if the headquarters were moved to Dallas because I don't remember that being discussed at all. If so you would have seen KU, KSU, NU, and ISU potentially voting in favor of that more so than Colorado. The fact is MU betrayed the rest of the north just as Colorado did.

As for Bob Frederick, why would you not want a guy with Big 8 ties over a guy who helped sink the SWC? Heck, KSU had less love for Bob Frederick and they were smart enough not to put their eggs in the Hatchell basket. You can say what you want, but Frederick was a much better choice as commissioner than a proven failure like Hatchell. Frederick may not have been the best athletic director, but the guy would have been right at hom as commissioner of a conference. No, Missouri made their choices.

[MrBug708]

And what school can keep a secret? Look at UCLA and the Wear twins, that secret was out sooo far in advance :lol:

That wasn't an athletic department issue, that was a Wear's father issue :)

[Blade6119]

I don't know where you're getting that KC was promised the Big 12 basketball tourney every year if the headquarters were moved to Dallas because I don't remember that being discussed at all. If so you would have seen KU, KSU, NU, and ISU potentially voting in favor of that more so than Colorado. The fact is MU betrayed the rest of the north just as Colorado did.

As for Bob Frederick, why would you not want a guy with Big 8 ties over a guy who helped sink the SWC? Heck, KSU had less love for Bob Frederick and they were smart enough not to put their eggs in the Hatchell basket. You can say what you want, but Frederick was a much better choice as commissioner than a proven failure like Hatchell. Frederick may not have been the best athletic director, but the guy would have been right at hom as commissioner of a conference. No, Missouri made their choices.

And Kansas gets to crash and burn for them, so they made the right choices :devil: :devil: :devil:

[MJ4H]

My personal wishlist for 4 SEC teams is

FSU, Clemson, Louisville, North Carolina.

I think 3 of those jump at the SEC. I think North Carolina wouldn't but could be persuaded. As mentioned, I don't think that's the SEC's style and they would then move on to West Virginia, who I think would jump.

Just my opinion, and I haven't been following this stuff until everything got shoved right to the edge of the cliff and people started leaning on it recently.

[Blade6119]

That wasn't an athletic department issue, that was a Wear's father issue :)

And the Carlino reclassification? I know Carlino's family and I heared about it through the UCLA grapevine before i heared about it from matty

[Logan]

Just curious, why do you want Louisville?

[the_meanstrosity]

There's a TON of things that have to fall in place for this scenario and even Kietzmann noted that this isn't anywhere close to a done deal. But it's certainly an interesting twist to be sure. The Big Ten had talked with Mizzou as recently as yesterday saying that a bid would be sent. We'll have to see what plays out tomorrow.

Kietzman? Seriously? You really need a better source.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Living for spite is still living:)

If it works for Texas, it'll work for anyone.

[MJ4H]

Just curious, why do you want Louisville?

Dunno. I'd take Georgia Tech in their place. I haven't thought it out much.

[MrBug708]

And the Carlino reclassification? I know Carlino's family and I heared about it through the UCLA grapevine before i heared about it from matty

I'm not sure what you are getting at? Howland only had interest in Carlino this year, that's why Howland recruited him. It's not a big secret or anything

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Kietzman? Seriously? You really need a better source.

You obviously aren't paying attention. Kietzmann is the one offering up this scenario, not the one talking about it.

[the_meanstrosity]

And Kansas gets to crash and burn for them, so they made the right choices :devil: :devil: :devil:

Not really. I don't blame Missouri's choices back then for the conference failing now. I've always felt like Nebraska was the key. If they left then the conference would likely tumble. I had actually felt good about the conference's chances when it was just MU being rumored. When NU got involved then I could see the writing on the wall. There's still a chance the conference could be salvaged, but it's a very small chance at this time with NU leaving.

[the_meanstrosity]

You obviously aren't paying attention. Kietzmann is the one offering up this scenario, not the one talking about it.

Didn't Kietzman just take the scenario that was posted on the web?

[cartman]

If it works for Texas, it'll work for anyone.

Interesting, coming from a fan of the school that was the first to say they were going to leave the Big 12, supposedly out of spite for the power Texas holds over the Big 12.

Gotta love what DeLoss Dodds, the AD of Texas had to say: "We didn't start this, but if we need to finish it we'll finish it."

[Blade6119]

I'm not sure what you are getting at? Howland only had interest in Carlino this year, that's why Howland recruited him. It's not a big secret or anything

Im just saying ive never known and school or athletic department that can keep a secret, every story about every school always has quotes from inside sources and leaks from key personnel...i think thats mostly standard practice, that if an athletic department has a secret it will be told

[Swaggs]

As for Louisville, I'm not sure Kentucky would go for them being added. Not enough to stop the move but I'd think they'd have to be strongly against it at least privately.

Similarly, I don't see UT or Vandy going along easily with even the slightest suggestion of Memphis.

West Virginia, on the other hand, I'm not sure there would be specific opposition to from a "who the team is" standpoint, so I could easily imagine them being in play but who to partner them with even in a two-team expansion is tough for me to come up with a clear frontrunner.

On the whole, I agree with much of what you posted from that FSU board though.

If Pittsburgh doesn't end up in the Big 10, they could be a good combo for the SEC with WVU. Both have pretty good football and very good basketball and the two combined would bring in good chunk of the Pittsburgh market (that PSU also has a large ownership of).

[Blade6119]

Interesting, coming from a fan of the school that was the first to say they were going to leave the Big 12, supposedly out of spite for the power Texas holds over the Big 12.

Gotta love what DeLoss Dodds, the AD of Texas had to say: "We didn't start this, but if we need to finish it we'll finish it."

To be fair, Mizzou has still never said they were leaving...Mizzou wouldnt commit to the Big 12, but i havent heared Texas do that either :confused:

[MrBug708]

Im just saying ive never known and school or athletic department that can keep a secret, every story about every school always has quotes from inside sources and leaks from key personnel...i think thats mostly standard practice, that if an athletic department has a secret it will be told

I dont think grade classification of a decent college basketball player is in the same stratosphere as it would be for conference realignment and millions and millions of dollars. I doubt that these "meetings" have more then 2 or 3 people from the university involved. You are trying to compare a particular sport with a whole athletic department.

[Swaggs]

My personal wishlist for 4 SEC teams is

FSU, Clemson, Louisville, North Carolina.

I think 3 of those jump at the SEC. I think North Carolina wouldn't but could be persuaded. As mentioned, I don't think that's the SEC's style and they would then move on to West Virginia, who I think would jump.

Just my opinion, and I haven't been following this stuff until everything got shoved right to the edge of the cliff and people started leaning on it recently.

I think it would be hard for UNC to leave the ACC without Duke and NC State.

WVU (or any other Big East school) would be willing to jump and take a partial share for several years, I would imagine. A partial share of the SEC pie is going to be better than what we are getting in the Big East now.

[SackAttack]

I wouldn't have minded Mizzou to the Big Ten, if only because I live in Big Ten country now and that would've made it easier for me to see their games.

But if Nebraska goes and Mizzou doesn't get a bid (and the South goes to the Pac-10), I don't know where Mizzou goes from here. Their basketball and football programs are better of late than they were when I was a student there, but it's not like they've got an historical pedigree in either one to dangle in front of any of the other BCS conferences.

Maybe they could just join the Horizon League and then at least I could see the basketball team when they come to Green Bay. ;)

[MJ4H]

I think it would be hard for UNC to leave the ACC without Duke and NC State.


That was my thought process, too.

[Blade6119]

I dont think grade classification of a decent college basketball player is in the same stratosphere as it would be for conference realignment and millions and millions of dollars. I doubt that these "meetings" have more then 2 or 3 people from the university involved. You are trying to compare a particular sport with a whole athletic department.

Well UCLA hasnt been involved directly in anything on this level, so i cant say in that regard. I wasnt attacking UCLA, just trying to make a reference you could understand. Look at the other key players in this current event. Is Nebraka holding their secrets? Texas? Hell, Baylor, CU, OU, any of them...if anything were getting too much information, so that every tidbit of whimsy is taken and twisted into both fact and grandeur.

[cartman]

To be fair, Mizzou has still never said they were leaving...Mizzou wouldnt commit to the Big 12, but i havent heared Texas do that either :confused:

Eh? Texas has said all along they would prefer to keep the Big 12 together, and were committed to doing so. However, they also discussed other options if it wasn't possible to keep the league together.

http://gazetteonline.com/blogs/docs-office/2010/06/03/six-big-12-schools-to-the-pac-10
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/college/7032111.html

[Swaggs]

For what it's worth, I still think Missouri gets a spot in the Big Ten unless they stick at 11 or 12. Their problem right now is that they don't have any other options, so there is no urgency to add them just yet. Nebraska, Texas, and Notre Dame have always been higher on the pecking order and Missouri and the Big East schools will be waiting around until the Big Ten has done their dilligence (unless the SEC decides to make their move first, plucks from the ACC, and the ACC decides to go for the NYC market first).

[timmynausea]

If Pittsburgh doesn't end up in the Big 10, they could be a good combo for the SEC with WVU. Both have pretty good football and very good basketball and the two combined would bring in good chunk of the Pittsburgh market (that PSU also has a large ownership of).

I thought of that, too, but culturally Pitt is a pretty poor fit. They don't have their own stadium, poor attendance, poor traveling for bowls, etc. I just don't see them fitting in with SEC schools. Louisville really would make more sense unless Kentucky is dead set against it and has the clout to stop it. They just spent a ton of money to expand Papa John's stadium to around 60,000 (the exact final capacity hasn't been announced).

[MrBug708]

Well UCLA hasnt been involved directly in anything on this level, so i cant say in that regard. I wasnt attacking UCLA, just trying to make a reference you could understand. Look at the other key players in this current event. Is Nebraka holding their secrets? Texas? Hell, Baylor, CU, OU, any of them...if anything were getting too much information, so that every tidbit of whimsy is taken and twisted into both fact and grandeur.

Most of those other teams have been transparent and most of the comments reflect that. Missouri seems to be playing misdirection.

And I know what you were trying to do :)

[Swaggs]

That was my thought process, too.

They are kind of academic snobs, too. :)

[Blade6119]

Eh? Texas has said all along they would prefer to keep the Big 12 together, and were committed to doing so. However, they also discussed other options if it wasn't possible to keep the league together.

And publicly i believe Mizzou has consistently said its a proud member of the Big 12 and has discussed options available to them in private...and no offense, but from what we have heared from the Ohio State emails, texas was talking to the Big 10 from the get go, so while i understand the company line, Texas would very much like to move and has actively campaigned this entire time to reach that end. In all honesty, even in NU and Mizzou stayed, i think Texas would leave...if I were them I would, it makes too much sense financially for them to really want to stay

[Dr. Sak]

If Pittsburgh doesn't end up in the Big 10, they could be a good combo for the SEC with WVU. Both have pretty good football and very good basketball and the two combined would bring in good chunk of the Pittsburgh market (that PSU also has a large ownership of).

Are you counting yellow seats as fans? :)

[Swaggs]

I thought of that, too, but culturally Pitt is a pretty poor fit. They don't have their own stadium, poor attendance, poor traveling for bowls, etc. I just don't see them fitting in with SEC schools. Louisville really would make more sense unless Kentucky is dead set against it and has the clout to stop it. They just spent a ton of money to expand Papa John's stadium to around 60,000 (the exact final capacity hasn't been announced).

Pitt would probably be happier in the ACC (if not the Big Ten, where they are really a perfect fit aside from being in a redundant market) with their academic pedigree. I think they'd obviously have to accept a bid to the SEC, though. And, I think the WVU/Pitt tandem would bring some football and basketball value, a new market, and not really tip the balance of power by adding a new power (which Texas, Oklahoma, or possibly FSU or Miami would do).

[Swaggs]

Are you counting yellow seats as fans? :)

I can guarantee you that the SEC hasn't seen a mustache the likes of Dave's before! :)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

For what it's worth, I still think Missouri gets a spot in the Big Ten unless they stick at 11 or 12. Their problem right now is that they don't have any other options, so there is no urgency to add them just yet. Nebraska, Texas, and Notre Dame have always been higher on the pecking order and Missouri and the Big East schools will be waiting around until the Big Ten has done their dilligence (unless the SEC decides to make their move first, plucks from the ACC, and the ACC decides to go for the NYC market first).

This.

Even if things have changed and Mizzou gets moved to a different stage of the expansion, it's still likely that Mizzou ends up in the Big 10. I think you'll find that Mizzou is very reserved in their reaction for this very reason if this 'doomsday' scenario comes to pass.

[MJ4H]

They are kind of academic snobs, too. :)

That's for damn sure. We ain't got time for that shit http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y257/Gorgonian14/emot-snoop.gif

[MrBug708]

So where does this leave the SEC? Will the new contracts for the Big-10 and PAC-10 mean more money for those teams then what the SEC does?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Missouri seems to be playing misdirection.

Mizzou has handled this more professionally than any other school involved. They're the only administration out of the major players in the Big 12 that has kept their dirty laundry behind close doors.

[MJ4H]

Possibly, but the SEC has already said they will not sit around and let that kind of thing happen.

[JonInMiddleGA]

If Pittsburgh doesn't end up in the Big 10, they could be a good combo for the SEC with WVU. Both have pretty good football and very good basketball and the two combined would bring in good chunk of the Pittsburgh market (that PSU also has a large ownership of).

Except that I believe you're underestimating the importance of the "Southeastern" portion of the conference name where the SEC is concerned.
The definitions may been stretched a little with the addition of Arkansas is truly more SW, and would be stretched even further with WVU but could be a cultural fit in many ways. Pitt on the other hand ... well, I have a tough time believing the member schools or their fans would have any desire to see a school they completely identify as "Northern" being added.

[MrBug708]

Mizzou has handled this more professionally than any other school involved. They're the only administration out of the major players in the Big 12 that has kept their dirty laundry behind close doors.

I wouldnt expect anything less then a comment like this. Even though Missouri has been trying to whore itself out to the Big-10 for 2 years

[MrBug708]

Possibly, but the SEC has already said they will not sit around and let that kind of thing happen.

Expansion?

[MJ4H]

Expansion?
yes

I think we should go after Montana and Hawaii personally (I MEAN IF WE ARE GOING TO GO AFTER PITT WE MIGHT AS WELL)

:confused::confused:

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I wouldnt expect anything less then a comment like this. Even though Missouri has been trying to whore itself out to the Big-10 for 2 years

Link?

[Abe Sargent]

Except that I believe you're underestimating the importance of the "Southeastern" portion of the conference name where the SEC is concerned.
The definitions may been stretched a little with the addition of Arkansas is truly more SW, and would be stretched even further with WVU but could be a cultural fit in many ways. Pitt on the other hand ... well, I have a tough time believing the member schools or their fans would have any desire to see a school they completely identify as "Northern" being added.

WVU is south of the Mason Dixon line. By about 6 miles, but it is south of it.

[Solecismic]

2007-08 Ranking, Revenue, FBS schools, by targeted conference:

Big XII

1. Texas
10. Oklahoma State
11. Kansas
17. Oklahoma
20. Nebraska
21. Texas A&M
43. Colorado
46. Missouri
47. Kansas State
56. Baylor
58. Texas Tech
63. Iowa State

ACC

23. Duke
26. Virginia
31. North Carolina
32. Boston College
34. Clemson (half of Texas' revenue)
37. Virginia Tech
41. Maryland
49. Georgia Tech
51. Miami
53. Florida State
55. North Carolina State
60. Wake Forest

Big East

39. Connecticut
40. West Virginia
44. Louisville
45. Rutgers
54. Syracuse
61. Pittsburgh
66. South Florida
67. Cincinnati

Other Notables

14. Notre Dame
57. Texas Christian (top non-BCS school)
64. Brigham Young (2nd)
75. Mississippi State (lowest BCS school, one-fourth of Texas' revenue)
118. Louisiana-Monroe (lowest FBS, Army and Navy do not report revenue)

If I'm the SEC, I'm looking westward if I want to expand to 16 - and wouldn't want a "Tech problem" any more than Ohio State does.

Missouri may bring some inroads into the St. Louis market, and there's a natural rivalry with Illinois. But the Big Ten might want to give a harder look to Kansas if it already has Nebraska. Kansas is also AAU.

The argument can also be made that Big East schools, having not had the chance to participate in a major conference (I see the Big East as in the limbo area between major and mid-major) could see a huge boost from a move to the Big Ten, while Big XII schools have less to grow.

[cartman]

And publicly i believe Mizzou has consistently said its a proud member of the Big 12 and has discussed options available to them in private...and no offense, but from what we have heared from the Ohio State emails, texas was talking to the Big 10 from the get go, so while i understand the company line, Texas would very much like to move and has actively campaigned this entire time to reach that end. In all honesty, even in NU and Mizzou stayed, i think Texas would leave...if I were them I would, it makes too much sense financially for them to really want to stay

Yep, the Big 12 has been so horrible financially for Texas, they are consistently #1 or #2 for athletic department revenue. I don't think it is so much that Texas wants to move, it is other conferences want Texas to move to them.

[SackAttack]

Yep, the Big 12 has been so horrible financially for Texas, they are consistently #1 or #2 for athletic department revenue. I don't think it is so much that Texas wants to move, it is other conferences want Texas to move to them.

I think the true answer lies somewhere in between.

Other conferences want Texas, and Texas is willing to go if it's a better situation for them, but I don't think the Longhorns are sittin' there with bags packed waiting to bolt, either. They've got a pretty sweet deal in the Big XII right now, so there's no reason for them to go anywhere unless it improves their situation.

But just the publicity associated with being the top target for all these conferences has to be beneficial to them, too - particularly from a recruiting perspective.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

If I'm the SEC, I'm looking westward if I want to expand to 16 - and wouldn't want a "Tech problem" any more than Ohio State does.

Missouri may bring some inroads into the St. Louis market, and there's a natural rivalry with Illinois. But the Big Ten might want to give a harder look to Kansas if it already has Nebraska. Kansas is also AAU.

I actually heard yesterday that the SEC had made preliminary contact with Mizzou. I thought it was ridiculous given what was being said. Might not have been as ridiculous as I first thought.

[Solecismic]

I'd also point out the Pac Ten could play this smarter. They're on the verge of being saddled with Texas Tech and Baylor. They probably want neither. If Nebraska goes, they have enough leverage to offer Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas and Colorado, leaving room for Utah and New Mexico if that doesn't force Texas and Texas A&M's hands.

[cartman]

Link?

Missouri Tigers Athletics :: Mizzou College Sports :: TigerBoard.com :: Missouri to the Big Ten in 3-5 years. (http://www.tigerboard.com/boards/missouri-tigers.php?message=4708678)

[Blade6119]

Yep, the Big 12 has been so horrible financially for Texas, they are consistently #1 or #2 for athletic department revenue. I don't think it is so much that Texas wants to move, it is other conferences want Texas to move to them.

Oh the Big 12 has been great for Texas, but the TV deal dollars being tossed around for a PAC 16 that would cover 40% of the top media markets makes what Texas is pulling in now look laughable. Texas is many things, and a smart school is one of them.

[Blade6119]

Missouri Tigers Athletics :: Mizzou College Sports :: TigerBoard.com :: Missouri to the Big Ten in 3-5 years. (http://www.tigerboard.com/boards/missouri-tigers.php?message=4708678)

Your quoting Tigerboard? That site is a collection of random joes posting anything and everything. Quote the Columbia Tribune or another esteemed source instead of an internet forum...

[cartman]

Your quoting Tigerboard? That site is a collection of random joes posting anything and everything. Quote the Columbia Tribune or another esteemed source instead of an internet forum...

I was using a source that MBBF would be comfortable with.

[Blade6119]

I was using a source that MBBF would be comfortable with.

LOL, well played buddy :D

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Missouri Tigers Athletics :: Mizzou College Sports :: TigerBoard.com :: Missouri to the Big Ten in 3-5 years. (http://www.tigerboard.com/boards/missouri-tigers.php?message=4708678)

An assist for you. Good find on Bug's behalf.

[Tigercat]

Yea I wonder if the SEC would/should consider a possibly homless Missouri. (Especially If they get three top choices such as FSU, GT, and Clem and need a fourth for 16.) I don't think they would be the worst fit in the world. And even if their fit isn't the best, they bring more to the conference than a lot of ACC teams.

[MrBug708]

Your quoting Tigerboard? That site is a collection of random joes posting anything and everything. Quote the Columbia Tribune or another esteemed source instead of an internet forum...

Ok, use the link from the board

collegeBLITZ.com | The Homepage of College Football (http://www.collegeblitz.com/live/2006/smith/073107.html)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Your quoting Tigerboard? That site is a collection of random joes posting anything and everything. Quote the Columbia Tribune or another esteemed source instead of an internet forum...

Actually, there was an article within the post.

[the_meanstrosity]

Oh the Big 12 has been great for Texas, but the TV deal dollars being tossed around for a PAC 16 that would cover 40% of the top media markets makes what Texas is pulling in now look laughable. Texas is many things, and a smart school is one of them.

The proposed Pac 10 and Big 12 south deal would be a great fit for everyone involved. That is the conference that I would love to see Kansas tied to though I don't know how likely that is to happen with all of the politics involved. That would be an incredible conference with lots of potential growth.

[MrBug708]

Yea I wonder if the SEC would/should consider a possibly homless Missouri. (Especially If they get three top choices such as FSU, GT, and Clem and need a fourth for 16.) I don't think they would be the worst fit in the world. And even if their fit isn't the best, they bring more to the conference than a lot of ACC teams.

Miami, FSU, Clemson, and GT and call it a day

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

That is the conference that I would love to see Kansas tied to though I don't know how likely that is to happen with all of the politics involved.

Potential of that happening is somewhere between zero and zilch.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I'd also point out the Pac Ten could play this smarter. They're on the verge of being saddled with Texas Tech and Baylor. They probably want neither. If Nebraska goes, they have enough leverage to offer Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas and Colorado, leaving room for Utah and New Mexico if that doesn't force Texas and Texas A&M's hands.

But under that scenario, you then run into the 'Kansas State' problem instead of the 'Tech' problem.

[MJ4H]

I don't think the SEC goes after Miami, myself. FSU, yes.

[Tigercat]

I don't think the SEC goes after Miami, myself. FSU, yes.

Same. Think going after GT, FSU, and Clemson are slam dunks. But Miami has a lot of negatives in how they fit in the SEC culture (aside from location.) Private school that doesn't make a lot of money, doesn't draw well for any sport, and who's overall sports portfolio isn't very strong... I certainly think they would make an OK backup plan, but talking about Missouri I was wondering outloud if they wouldn't be a better overall catch than Miami.

[the_meanstrosity]

Potential of that happening is somewhere between zero and zilch.

I like those chances better than Missouri's. :)

[RedKingGold]

I don't think the SEC goes after Miami, myself. FSU, yes.

Why would the SEC want you?

[the_meanstrosity]

But under that scenario, you then run into the 'Kansas State' problem instead of the 'Tech' problem.

A member of the Kansas Board of Regents just this week announced they would allow Kansas and KSU to split up if that was in the best interest of one of the schools. They did suggest that keeping the Big 12 together was their number one priority though.

[Swaggs]

I don't think the SEC goes after Miami, myself. FSU, yes.

I might be crazy, but I'm actually not sure that Miami would go to the SEC. They fancy themselves to be one of the academic elites of the South and I suspect that their administration is probably happy in the ACC with Wake Forest, Duke, UVA, UNC, Maryland and Boston College. Maybe if the ACC looks like it is going to fall apart, but I imagine that the Carolina and Virginia schools would have enough combined cohesion for the ACC to survive losing some of the other teams.

[digamma]

I'd also point out the Pac Ten could play this smarter. They're on the verge of being saddled with Texas Tech and Baylor. They probably want neither. If Nebraska goes, they have enough leverage to offer Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas and Colorado, leaving room for Utah and New Mexico if that doesn't force Texas and Texas A&M's hands.

Having Texas and Oklahoma plus four teams from East India would outweigh having six teams not named Texas.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

A member of the Kansas Board of Regents just this week announced they would allow Kansas and KSU to split up if that was in the best interest of one of the schools. They did suggest that keeping the Big 12 together was their number one priority though.

That's not what he said. He said that it wasn't a given that they would have to remain together (i.e. no decision had been made). With that said, there are 9 regents on that board, none of whom want to be the people who sent one of the state institutions to a lower level conference while the other one does well.

[kcchief19]

I wouldnt expect anything less then a comment like this. Even though Missouri has been trying to whore itself out to the Big-10 for 2 years
I will differ from MBBF and say that Missouri has been just as professional as any other school in the process. But saying what you did about Missouri makes me think you haven't been paying attention.

[MJ4H]

Why would the SEC want you?

I'm handsome.



Since I don't want to derail the topic too much I'll put this in spoilers so only the people that are really interested will bother. Or something.

The correct question is "Why DID the SEC want Arkansas?" Since they invited us. It isn't hypothetical, it really happened.

The answer is, Arkansas has a strong athletic tradition (especially at the time we were invited. witness: very strong decade in football along with always being a national power, very strong in baseball, among the very elite in basketball with a rich tradition, etc.), fitting the cultural and location profiles of the conference very well, and we guaranteed we'd come if invited (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/MYSA081405_2N_SWCmain_1ca3d21_html8522.html?c=y&page=1#storytop).

Our success has fallen off some in football, but we are on our way back to prominence after finally recovering from a series of awful coaches. In basketball, we only got better after joining the SEC, peaking at a National Championship and National runners-up in 2 successive seasons. Obviously dropped off since, but the potential is still there since we are still one of the biggest money making schools in basketball after 2 awful seasons and a less than mediocre decade. We have brought countless track and field NATIONAL championships home, and have several trips to Omaha in baseball.

Why wouldn't they have wanted us?

[kcchief19]

Technically I thought what the Kansas regent said was the there was nothing legal tying KU and K-State together in a conference but that's what everyone wants. It was more in response to the notion that the State of Kansas legally required KU and KSU to be a package.

[Solecismic]

But under that scenario, you then run into the 'Kansas State' problem instead of the 'Tech' problem.

The Kansas people seem to understand the Kansas State problem would lead to two MWC schools rather than one major and one mid-major.

Texas has enormous leverage. Texas A&M is no slouch. But if the Big XII is failing, it's because there are four schools that probably don't belong in a revised BCS based on athletics alone. The Big Ten's strength is that is has only one - and that one is perhaps its strongest academic institution.

We have to look at what form a splinter major division would take. Could it be 3 16-team conferences, and two 8-team conferences combining with a championship game for the fourth spot? Two 10-team conferences? A 14 and an 8?

Imagine what it would do for basketball to replace the NCAA tournament with this type of structure? Give the conference tournament winners a bye into the Sweet 16?

The goal here is for elite conferences to maximize revenue. The end-game has to be the removal of the NCAA - at least for major sports.

[SnDvls]

I'd also point out the Pac Ten could play this smarter. They're on the verge of being saddled with Texas Tech and Baylor. They probably want neither. If Nebraska goes, they have enough leverage to offer Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas and Colorado, leaving room for Utah and New Mexico if that doesn't force Texas and Texas A&M's hands.

The Pac-10 doesn't want Kansas or New Mexico for that matter.
New Mexico adds nothing to them and forces them to split the revenu pie one more way and getting nothing in return.
Kansas would add a top noch basketball program, but little else and as it is the current Thursday/Saturday pairs scheudling of basketball will get even harder with more(longer) travel for ASU/uofa.
One of the bigger reasons they want Colorado is the short travel, the Denver market and the fact that CU has alumni in CA/AZ that will help with ticket sales ($). They will settle with Baylor but only if they are guaranteed Texas and Oklahoma.

[the_meanstrosity]

That's not what he said. He said that it wasn't a given that they would have to remain together. With that said, there are 9 regents on that board, none of whom want to be the people who sent one of the state institutions to a lower level conference while the other one does well.

Here was the summarized quote: Sherrer said the regents could support KU and K-State taking different paths if that was in the best interest of each school.

Here's the link.

http://www.kmbc.com/news/23824319/detail.html

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Technically I thought what the Kansas regent said was the there was nothing legal tying KU and K-State together in a conference but that's what everyone wants. It was more in response to the notion that the State of Kansas legally required KU and KSU to be a package.

Exactly.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Here was the summarized quote: Sherrer said the regents could support KU and K-State taking different paths if that was in the best interest of each school.

Here's the link.

http://www.kmbc.com/news/23824319/detail.html

That was HIS opinion. That was not an opinion of the entire board. I'm not saying they won't allow them to do that. I'm simply noting that no final decision has been made and it could go either way. But there's a ton of stuff to sort out elsewhere before they even start dealing with what to do with the state of Kansas.

[SackAttack]

The Pac-10 doesn't want Kansas or New Mexico for that matter.
New Mexico adds nothing to them and forces them to split the revenu pie one more way and getting nothing in return.
Kansas would add a top noch basketball program, but little else and as it is the current Thursday/Saturday pairs scheudling of basketball will get even harder with more(longer) travel for ASU/uofa.
One of the bigger reasons they want Colorado is the short travel, the Denver market and the fact that CU has alumni in CA/AZ that will help with ticket sales ($). They will settle with Baylor but only if they are guaranteed Texas and Oklahoma.

Wouldn't having Kansas help boost the league pedigree when it comes to the NCAA tournament, though? Every year it seems like I hear the Pac-10 and its alumni fans complaining about getting overlooked when it comes to bids. Wouldn't Kansas being in the league help raise its visibility?

[the_meanstrosity]

The Kansas people seem to understand the Kansas State problem would lead to two MWC schools rather than one major and one mid-major.


Exactly! I'll be the first to say that the Kansas Board of Regents are idiots, but they can't afford to have both schools become mid majors when they could have one that is major. The state of Kansas already has a mid major in Wichita State. They do not need two more.

[dawgfan]

I'd also point out the Pac Ten could play this smarter. They're on the verge of being saddled with Texas Tech and Baylor. They probably want neither. If Nebraska goes, they have enough leverage to offer Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas and Colorado, leaving room for Utah and New Mexico if that doesn't force Texas and Texas A&M's hands.
Well, a couple things:

1. We don't know exactly how Scott has been pitching things to Texas, and
2. Texas holds significant leverage here

Why would any of those schools bolt if Texas wasn't assured as part of that group? Aside from Colorado, which obviously wants in...

Texas holds a lot of power here. Scott knows that the Big Ten would love to grab Texas, and Texas knows it too.

It's quite the delicate balancing act given all of the schools and conferences involved, which is why it's so fascinating to me. It's a lot more complicated than just thinking about what would make the best football matchups, otherwise Texas Tech and Baylor wouldn't even be in this conversation.

[the_meanstrosity]

That was HIS opinion. That was not an opinion of the entire board. I'm not saying they won't allow them to do that. I'm simply noting that no final decision has been made and it could go either way. But there's a ton of stuff to sort out elsewhere before they even start dealing with what to do with the state of Kansas.

Remember those quotes were taken not long after a board meeting regarding the Big 12, KU, and KSU. I don't know a lot about politics, but I would guess he was giving the board's opinion rather than his own personal opinion in this instance.

[dawgfan]

Wouldn't having Kansas help boost the league pedigree when it comes to the NCAA tournament, though? Every year it seems like I hear the Pac-10 and its alumni fans complaining about getting overlooked when it comes to bids. Wouldn't Kansas being in the league help raise its visibility?
I'm betting that in an ideal world, the Pac-10 would like to add Kansas, especially if they didn't have to take Kansas State in a package deal. But in order to get Texas, they may have to take Texas Tech and Baylor, and those two are likely what would keep Colorado and Kansas out.

If the Pac-10 can limit the Texas grab to just Texas and A&M (or Texas and Texas Tech if the Aggies find a BCS home elsewhere), I would think Kansas would be on the invite list right behind Colorado.

[digamma]

Wouldn't having Kansas help boost the league pedigree when it comes to the NCAA tournament, though? Every year it seems like I hear the Pac-10 and its alumni fans complaining about getting overlooked when it comes to bids. Wouldn't Kansas being in the league help raise its visibility?

This isn't about basketball. If it was, we'd be talking about Villanova, Connecticut and Georgetown.

[SnDvls]

This isn't about basketball. If it was, we'd be talking about Villanova, Connecticut and Georgetown.

+1

[SackAttack]

This isn't about basketball. If it was, we'd be talking about Villanova, Connecticut and Georgetown.

No, it's not about basketball. I get that.

But their football program has been non-shitty for the last few years - seems like it's on the way up - and if travel is a concern, Kansas is one fuck of a lot closer than Villanova.

Hell, it's not that much further than Colorado would be in the first place, you know? If they're willing to take CU, you'd have to think they'd be willing to take ku.

[Galaxy]

If the Big Ten goes to 16, with the Pac-10/SEC/ACC following, does this mean that Notre Dame is going to be screwed if they don't join the Big Ten? Also, would this also be the end for the Big East well? Would the non-football schools spilt and create a new conference, with the remaining members going to new conferences?

I don't see the love over Baylor. A private, religious school. I don't get why they are being pushed over other state schools.

Where do the Oklahoma schools go? Are they the big kids that are left out?

[kcchief19]

The Kansas people seem to understand the Kansas State problem would lead to two MWC schools rather than one major and one mid-major.
I think they understand that but would rather still have two MWC schools than one major and one mid-major. KU will change its tune when this becomes reality though.

I still stand by what I said earlier this week, even more so now in the light that MU may not be in the first phase of Big Ten expansion. MU, KU, K-State, Iowa State and Baylor should convene an immediate meeting in Kansas City, draw up a list of commissioner candidates and an invite list. It's every team for themselves.

Call BYU, Utah, TCU, Memphis, Houston, Boise State, Colorado State, etc. from the MWC, CUSA and WAC. You can have a 12-14 team conference that would qualify for a BCS bid in year one based on the BCS formula and would immediately be just one notch below the BCS conferences and one notch above the mid-majors. It would be more TV money and more prestige. It would be a drop for the Big 12 schools and a steup up for the other conferences. But it would be better for everyone.

I don't think that will happen though, because I think the Big 12 schools are all looking for their own life rafts. They are all going to try and claw their way into the best existing conference they can.

[dawgfan]

If the Big Ten goes to 16, with the Pac-10/SEC/ACC following, does this mean that Notre Dame is going to be screwed if they don't join the Big Ten? Also, would this also be the end for the Big East well? Would the non-football schools spilt and create a new conference, with the remaining members going to new conferences?
There's little doubt that if the Big-12 collapses and the Pac-10 swoops in to go to 16 that the chain reaction will lead to Notre Dame giving in and agreeing to join the Big Ten.

I don't see the love over Baylor. A private, religious school. I don't see why they are being pushed over other state schools.
I dunno - state politics I guess.

[digamma]

No, it's not about basketball. I get that.

But their football program has been non-shitty for the last few years - seems like it's on the way up - and if travel is a concern, Kansas is one fuck of a lot closer than Villanova.

Hell, it's not that much further than Colorado would be in the first place, you know? If they're willing to take CU, you'd have to think they'd be willing to take ku.

Sure, but not at the expense of risking a miss on Texas.

[Galaxy]

I dunno - state politics I guess.

That's what I don't get. Wouldn't state politics protect the interests of the state schools first?

[the_meanstrosity]

No, it's not about basketball. I get that.

But their football program has been non-shitty for the last few years - seems like it's on the way up - and if travel is a concern, Kansas is one fuck of a lot closer than Villanova.

Hell, it's not that much further than Colorado would be in the first place, you know? If they're willing to take CU, you'd have to think they'd be willing to take ku.

Colorado is a good fit because of their current relationships with the Pac 10. Denver would be a nice market to add as well (though I would argue KC is competitive for college sports). Colorado's football program is probably on the same level of Kansas right now vs when they were battling for Big 8 titles. I'd still say their program is still stronger overall, but Kansas is making up ground after pretty much destroying the program in Lawrence in the 90's because they wouldn't invest into the program. I agree though that the "travel" argument doesn't hold much water since you're likely flying from ASU/AU anyway. It's a difference of an hour probably. Either program would be lucky to get into the Pac 10/Big 12 south deal.

[Blade6119]

That's what I don't get. Wouldn't state politics protect the interests of the state schools first?

Not when those politicians are alumni of the private school

[Abe Sargent]

I don;t care what happens, but at the end, I want to see WVU and Pitt in the same conference, preferably with VTech, Maryland and Penn State in it too, and that's never going to happen, so ah well.

[cartman]

That's what I don't get. Wouldn't state politics protect the interests of the state schools first?

Not if you take into account the egos of the politicians that are alumni of Baylor.

[kcchief19]

Regardless of what happens, there will be some interesting games during the coming year. If Nebraska goes to the Big Ten and leaves Missouri behind, Tiger fans are going to go to game in Lincoln in droves, and if we win the goal posts are coming down and we're setting fire to the town on the way out.

Any North-South game and any Nebraska game has the potential to get ugly.

[the_meanstrosity]

I think they understand that but would rather still have two MWC schools than one major and one mid-major. KU will change its tune when this becomes reality though.

I still stand by what I said earlier this week, even more so now in the light that MU may not be in the first phase of Big Ten expansion. MU, KU, K-State, Iowa State and Baylor should convene an immediate meeting in Kansas City, draw up a list of commissioner candidates and an invite list. It's every team for themselves.

Call BYU, Utah, TCU, Memphis, Houston, Boise State, Colorado State, etc. from the MWC, CUSA and WAC. You can have a 12-14 team conference that would qualify for a BCS bid in year one based on the BCS formula and would immediately be just one notch below the BCS conferences and one notch above the mid-majors. It would be more TV money and more prestige. It would be a drop for the Big 12 schools and a steup up for the other conferences. But it would be better for everyone.

I don't think that will happen though, because I think the Big 12 schools are all looking for their own life rafts. They are all going to try and claw their way into the best existing conference they can.

So then the Kansas board would allow both their teams to become mid majors. Because let's be honest, if you're not a major then you're a mid major no matter how you slice it. There might be varying degrees of mid major, but you're still a mid major.

Why would KU, KSU, ISU, etc work with MU now?

[cartman]

looks like Blade beat me too it. :) Had to take a call before I could hit the post button.

[the_meanstrosity]

Cartman, are you hearing anything down there in Texas? With Nebraska likely gone is it a sure thing that the Big 12 is dead?

Well, looks like I answered my own question. Just saw Chip Brown talking about Texas and Texas A&M meeting tomorrow to make sure they are on the same page. I'm guessing the Big 12 is done.

[dawgfan]

That's what I don't get. Wouldn't state politics protect the interests of the state schools first?
Which ones are being left out? UTEP?

[Galaxy]

Not if you take into account the egos of the politicians that are alumni of Baylor.

Thanks (Don't know the background of the Texas politicians).

[SackAttack]

Sure, but not at the expense of risking a miss on Texas.

Right. But if you can't get Texas, and you're hellbent on expanding anyway, even by inviting some of the Big XII schools, Kansas doesn't seem like an awful consolation prize.

Now pardon me while I go retch into the toilet for having even uttered those words.

[cartman]

Cartman, are you hearing anything down there in Texas? With Nebraska likely gone is it a sure thing that the Big 12 is dead?

Well, looks like I answered my own question. Just saw Chip Brown talking about Texas and Texas A&M meeting tomorrow to make sure they are on the same page. I'm guessing the Big 12 is done.

Haven't heard anything other than that.

Here was an op-ed piece from one of the local sports writers:

Longhorns are not the villain in expansion scenarios (http://www.statesman.com/sports/longhorns-are-not-the-villain-in-expansion-scenarios-735410.html?viewAsSinglePage=true)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Wow. This isn't even close to resolved yet. There are good sources within Mizzou saying that most of the information that Kietzmann spoke of is not true and that Mizzou is still in play for a Big 10 bid.

This is crazy.

[the_meanstrosity]

Wow. This isn't even close to resolved yet. There are good sources within Mizzou saying that most of the information that Kietzmann spoke of is not true and that Mizzou is still in play for a Big 10 bid.

This is crazy.

Didn't your "sources" earlier suggest Missouri already had a bid? This Christmas, I'm getting you some new sources.

[Blade6119]

Didn't your "sources" earlier suggest Missouri already had a bid? This Christmas, I'm getting you some new sources.

To be fair, I am hearing the same things from a lot of different Mizzou sources today

[the_meanstrosity]

To be fair, I am hearing the same things from a lot of different Mizzou sources today

Oh I don't doubt that Missouri is still in the Big Ten's cross hairs. I just love the fact MBBF has these "sources" that have been wrong numerous times in the past and yet he keeps throwing them out there till eventually one sticks. ;)

[duckman]

My sources told me that Missouri was starting a one team conference. This will give them more opportunities to play with themselves.
I'm still standing by my source.

[SackAttack]

Oh I don't doubt that Missouri is still in the Big Ten's cross hairs. I just love the fact MBBF has these "sources" that have been wrong numerous times in the past and yet he keeps throwing them out there till eventually one sticks. ;)

I'll go one further. Cracks me up that there's a reasonably large contingent on this board that loves to throw out "sources" when they're talking about recruiting or expansion or what-have-you.

Unless we've got a much larger journalist contingent on board than I previously believed, most of those "sources" boil down to "other boards."

Or possibly "I read it on ESPN but I don't want to SAY that."

So much of this information has to be third and fourth-hand at best.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I'll go one further. Cracks me up that there's a reasonably large contingent on this board that loves to throw out "sources" when they're talking about recruiting or expansion or what-have-you.

Unless we've got a much larger journalist contingent on board than I previously believed, most of those "sources" boil down to "other boards."

Or possibly "I read it on ESPN but I don't want to SAY that."

So much of this information has to be third and fourth-hand at best.

Another tangent is that things like this change very quickly. Someone with knowledge posts information one day that might change two days later. That person then goes back and pulls information that was accurate at that time and says, "See! You were wrong!". It's not always that it's wrong as much as things may have changed in a situation as fluid as this.

I'm still very confident that MU ends up in the Big 10 when the dust settles.

[Blade6119]

I'm still standing by my source.

Now i can understand why southern schools like texas or OU can feel Mizzou was all too willing to jump ship and try to get a ticket out of the Big 12, but i just dont understand how they cannot understand that they are the reasons behind Mizzou, and by proxy Nebraska and CU, are so happy to bail on the conference. Simple things like revenue sharing, a staple in other leagues, or even minor details like fixed bowl selection order, and you wouldnt have this discontent. Its a double edged sword, as the south schools like the unfair system in place that favors them, then wonders why the north schools could be so ungrateful and want to leave for greener pastures. It would really be quite amusing if it werent quite so tragic for whatever schools are left behind after this

[duckman]

Report: Nebraska leaving Big 12, joining Big Ten | NewsOK.com (http://www.newsok.com/report-nebraska-leaving-big-12-joining-big-ten/article/3467334?custom_click=lead_story_title)

If Nebraska leaves, it is unlikely the Big 12 can be saved, according to the report. It is believed the Big Ten is moving away from issuing Missouri (http://www.newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Missouri+Tigers&CATEGORY=ORGANIZATION) an invite, focusing instead on Notre Dame (http://www.newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=University+of+Notre+Dame&CATEGORY=ORGANIZATION), Rutgers (http://www.newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Rutgers+University&CATEGORY=ORGANIZATION) and Maryland (http://www.newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Maryland&CATEGORY=STATE).

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

My sources tell me that if Nebraska leaves, it is not likely that the Big 12 will be saved. I also hear that the Big Ten is distancing themselves from Missouri - choosing to look at Notre Dame, Rutgers or Maryland instead. Will try to dig up more info.

[duckman]

My sources tell me that if Nebraska leaves, it is not likely that the Big 12 will be saved. I also hear that the Big Ten is distancing themselves from Missouri - choosing to look at Notre Dame, Rutgers or Maryland instead. Will try to dig up more info.
:D

[SackAttack]

Another tangent is that things like this change very quickly. Someone with knowledge posts information one day that might change two days later. That person then goes back and pulls information that was accurate at that time and says, "See! You were wrong!". It's not always that it's wrong as much as things may have changed in a situation as fluid as this.

I'm still very confident that MU ends up in the Big 10 when the dust settles.

Once again: unless there is a much larger journalist contingent on this board than I previously believed, or we have some institutional bigwigs here, the idea that anybody posting in this thread has anything but third- or fourth-hand "knowledge" at *best* is absolutely hilarious to me.

What we have is a bunch of "this guy I know knows a guy who knows a guy whose cousin's roommate's sister says this is gonna happen," but it gets dressed up as "sources" because that sounds better.

[cartman]

Simple things like revenue sharing, a staple in other leagues

There is revenue sharing in the Big 12. All of the teams agreed to the method at the formation of the conference. Last year there was around $102 million split between the schools, with Texas at the top, receiving $10.2 million, and Baylor at the bottom, receiving $7.1 million.

How the Big 12 teams rank in revenue-sharing funds - Big 12 Blog - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/2094/how-the-big-12-teams-rank-in-revenue-sharing-funds)

[digamma]

Another tangent is that things like this change very quickly. Someone with knowledge posts information one day that might change two days later. That person then goes back and pulls information that was accurate at that time and says, "See! You were wrong!". It's not always that it's wrong as much as things may have changed in a situation as fluid as this.

I'm still very confident that MU ends up in the Big 10 when the dust settles.

Yeah, dude, but there's a difference between saying, "this is what is being talked about and it looks like it is going to go this way" and saying, "it's a done deal. Alden has notified the Big XII that Missouri is leaving."

If the second half is accurate, it isn't just a "time of statement" thing. It is either still accurate today or it was never accurate.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Report: Nebraska leaving Big 12, joining Big Ten | NewsOK.com (http://www.newsok.com/report-nebraska-leaving-big-12-joining-big-ten/article/3467334?custom_click=lead_story_title)

I'd note that OrangeBloods.com is getting its information directly from the current Minister of Misinformation (i.e. Dodds) right now. Dodds is going after some schools right now with a flame torch, but the information being spread isn't totally accurate. I'd like to say more, but I'll let that statement stand on its own merit.

[cartman]

I'd note that OrangeBloods.com is getting its information directly from the current Minister of Misinformation (i.e. Dodds) right now. Dodds is going after some schools right now with a flame torch, but the information being spread isn't totally accurate. I'd like to say more, but I'll let that statement stand on its own merit.

ROFL

Dodds is one of the most respected ADs in the country.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Once again: unless there is a much larger journalist contingent on this board than I previously believed, or we have some institutional bigwigs here, the idea that anybody posting in this thread has anything but third- or fourth-hand "knowledge" at *best* is absolutely hilarious to me.

What we have is a bunch of "this guy I know knows a guy who knows a guy whose cousin's roommate's sister says this is gonna happen," but it gets dressed up as "sources" because that sounds better.

Well, MU does have the #1 journalism school in the nation. :)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

ROFL

Dodds is one of the most respected ADs in the country.

You and I differ on how 'respect' is defined.

[duckman]

My sources tell me that MBBF was caught masturbating to the Big 10 Network programming but put the lotion and the kleenex away when he heard that Nebraska would be the only invite.

[Ksyrup]

I'd note that OrangeBloods.com is getting its information directly from the current Minister of Misinformation (i.e. Dodds) right now. Dodds is going after some schools right now with a flame torch, but the information being spread isn't totally accurate. I'd like to say more, but I'll let that statement stand on its own merit.

Are there snipers outside your window?

[cartman]

You and I differ on how 'respect' is defined.

Your AD seems to think highly of him.

SBJ Athletic Director of the Year: DeLoss Dodds (http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/article/45698)

Missouri athletic director Mike Alden met Dodds in 1996, shortly after Alden became AD at Southwest Texas State University (now Texas State University) in San Marcos, just 30 miles down the road from Austin. “I cold-called him,” Alden said. “He didn’t know me from Adam.”

Alden hoped that, at the very least, he could spend a little time with Dodds and kept his fingers crossed that Dodds might become a mentor. “And he has done that,” Alden said, “in so many ways.”

Dodds’ survival philosophy is simple. “Every minute of every day, you do the best you can.”
Dodds’ willingness to spend time nurturing relationships is mentioned often as one of his most enduring — and endearing — traits. “He’s a mentor to a lot of people,” Castiglione said, “many of whom are doing exceedingly well in the business.”

The skills that have helped him build a wide-ranging web of relationships also help when it comes to shaping debate, whether over the future of a conference or, as recently, over whether to add a 12th game to the Division I-A football schedule.

“With his reputation and the respect he has nationally, he has the ability to change policy,” Alden said. “When he speaks, everyone in our profession listens.”

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

My sources tell me that MBBF was caught masturbating to the Big 10 Network programming but put the lotion and the kleenex away when he heard that Nebraska would be the only invite.

You sources are awfully infatuated with masturbation judging from your information thus far. Not that there's anything wrong with that............

[JonInMiddleGA]

Once again: unless there is a much larger journalist contingent on this board than I previously believed, or we have some institutional bigwigs here, the idea that anybody posting in this thread has anything but third- or fourth-hand "knowledge" at *best* is absolutely hilarious to me.

What we have is a bunch of "this guy I know knows a guy who knows a guy whose cousin's roommate's sister says this is gonna happen," but it gets dressed up as "sources" because that sounds better.

Eh, I dunno how true that is.

While I'm more skeptical than not, it isn't beyond the pale that there could be at least a half dozen or more people here who know someone who is, say, no more than 1 step removed from being in a position of some authority on this sort of subject.

I mean, the President of UGA lives literally across the street from me. My son has gone to school with roughly a half dozen children of UGA coaches or ass't coaches. And we haven't even talked about key donors to athletic department and/or schools who would have better access to reliable info than the average Joe Blow.

Make no mistake, I ain't tight with any of these people and make no claim to having heard jack shit from any of them. I'm just kind of anti-social that way.
But even the powerful & elite do have friends and they aren't always from the power/elite classes.

Given the makeup of the FOFC contingent, I don't think it's too hard to believe that there are several people who post here who've heard this or that from ostensibly reputable sources.