Inception (movie discussion - SPOILER warning)

[BishopMVP]

In addition to liking Leonardo DiCaprio and movie trailers with epic music, I'll admit to being a huge Christopher Nolan fanboy - Following was good enough, Memento had slight flaws but was a great concept, The Prestige might be my favorite big-budget movie of the past decade, and I think Batman Begins/The Dark Knight are the two best superhero movies out there - but is anyone else really excited for this movie? <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/z75o-F6ja2I&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/z75o-F6ja2I&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

... dreams feel real while we're in them - it's only when we wake up that we realize something was actually strange

[Marc Vaughan]

Never even heard of it before - looks interesting though ..

[SteveMax58]

Never even heard of it before - looks interesting though ..

+1...looks like a must see for me.

[samifan24]

I'm really excited. I'm also a huge Nolan fan and generally enjoy Joseph Gordon-Levitt's work, too. He was in a small film called "The Lookout" a few years ago which I thought was just fantastic. He plays a Midwestern kid who has an accident and then gets mixed up with the wrong kind of people. Jeff Daniels co-stars with Matthew Goode and Isla Fisher. It's a good one.

Anyway I'm looking forward to what Nolan can do with this new film. This is the first time he hasn't written with his younger brother Jonathan in many years. I think the last time he worked solo was "Insomnia," which he directed but didn't write, and I liked it even though it was slow. Anyway if you liked the two recent Batman movies, you'll probably want to check out Nolan's earlier work and this one, too.

[MikeVic]

There are also other good actors/actresses in this movie, I'm interested as well.

[Autumn]

I love Nolan's work, but frankly DiCaprio is a real turnoff for me. The movie's got enough other things going for it that it might be worth giving it a try and hoping he doesn't bug me here.

[jeff061]

Nolan and DiCaprio are the only reasons I'd watch it. I'd classify myself as a Nolan fanboy as well. Beyond all those flicks you mentioned I loved Insomnia, surprised that didn't get more of a following.

[Sgran]

Momento is my favorite movie. I also loved the Prestige and the two Batmans. I'm champing at the bit for this to open finally, but if memory serves we have to wait until July.

[samifan24]

Nolan and DiCaprio are the only reasons I'd watch it. I'd classify myself as a Nolan fanboy as well. Beyond all those flicks you mentioned I loved Insomnia, surprised that didn't get more of a following.

Insomina is good but I watched it again recently and found it to be much slower than I remember. It stuck me as a "mood movie" in that it really has its own distinctive mood, as many of Nolan's films do.

[jeff061]

Yeah, the slowness was the critique I usually hear. I think I just loved Pacino and is character enough to get sucked in.

[SunDevil]

The previews have made me re-watch the movie Dark City.

[jeff061]

Ha, the first time I saw a preview I thought it was a re-make of Dark City.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Cool looking concept. Great director. Solid cast. Totally in. Could very well be the only movie I see in the theater this summer.

[Scoobz0202]

I'm really excited for it even though I have no fucking clue what it's about. Nolan hasn't steered me wrong yet..

[JediKooter]

From the trailer, it looks like a remake of Dreamscape.

[Bonegavel]

From the trailer, it looks like a remake of Dreamscape.

Thought the same thing. Loved that movie in its day but I'm sure it hasn't aged well.

[korme]

Ellen Page, too!

[sovereignstar]

Momento is my favorite movie. I also loved the Prestige and the two Batmans. I'm champing at the bit for this to open finally, but if memory serves we have to wait until July.

Momento?

[MikeVic]

Ellen Page, too!

That's who I was getting at. ;)

[Sgran]

Momento?

Yup. I taped it off of HBO and wore a hole in it. Had to go get the DVD.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Yup. I taped it off of HBO and wore a hole in it. Had to go get the DVD.

I think he's picking up on the fact that the movie is "Memento" and not "Momento".

[Honolulu_Blue]

I am pretty sure that I have already had a dream that I was in this movie. I think I had it a few months ago after I saw the first trailer.

[Autumn]

Yup. I taped it off of HBO and wore a hole in it. Had to go get the DVD.

That's what you get for only having uno momento.

[tyketime]

Memento is one of my absolute favorites as well. As far as a movie-telling device, it ranks right up there for me. I have yet to trigger the easter egg to watch it in chronological order. Hmmm... I feel a movie night coming up soon!

[flere-imsaho]

It might suck, but I'd see it for the cast alone:

Leonardo DiCaprio
Ken Watanabe
Joseph Gordon-Levitt
Marion Cotillard
Ellen Page
Tom Hardy
Cillian Murphy
Michael Caine
and even... Tom Berenger....

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Pretty much the only movie this summer that I have down as a must-see.

[Maple Leafs]

I also loved the Prestige
Very underrated movie.

[BishopMVP]

Opens July 16th.Ha, the first time I saw a preview I thought it was a re-make of Dark City.I've seen an interview where Nolan said he started writing it around the time The Matrix, Dark City and The Thirteenth Floor came out, and said those influenced the early drafts. (Later drafts allegedly focused more on the main character's emotional journeyI love Nolan's work, but frankly DiCaprio is a real turnoff for me.Which of his works turned you off? I wasn't a huge fan if his early on but I've been fairly impressed with his accents and overall body of work in the 2 Scorsese-directed Boston movies and Blood Diamond. There are better actors out there, but as far as leading men go I think he's pretty good.

[Autumn]

Which of his works turned you off? I wasn't a huge fan if his early on but I've been fairly impressed with his accents and overall body of work in the 2 Scorsese-directed Boston movies and Blood Diamond. There are better actors out there, but as far as leading men go I think he's pretty good.

Well, I haven't seen much of his newer stuff. I liked him back in the day, in What's Eating Gilbert Grape, and even Titanic. And he was decent in Revolution Road or whatever htat was called. But I just don't buy him as a leading man, I guess I feel like his voice is too whiny and I felt he was a bit "the same" in everything. So nowadays when I see him as the star vehicle in a piece, I tend to just think it's not going to work for me, and the trailers seem to back that up. But I admit I haven't given him much of a chance these days.

I can't quite remember which films lost me. Would have been years ago probably.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

He was fantastic in The Aviator.

[MikeVic]

Well, I haven't seen much of his newer stuff. I liked him back in the day, in What's Eating Gilbert Grape, and even Titanic. And he was decent in Revolution Road or whatever htat was called. But I just don't buy him as a leading man, I guess I feel like his voice is too whiny and I felt he was a bit "the same" in everything. So nowadays when I see him as the star vehicle in a piece, I tend to just think it's not going to work for me, and the trailers seem to back that up. But I admit I haven't given him much of a chance these days.

I can't quite remember which films lost me. Would have been years ago probably.

I feel similarly about DiCaprio. I don't know what it is about him, maybe his voice, but he annoys me and I try to avoid movies with him in it. Now that he's in a movie with one of my favourite actresses (Ellen Page), I might have to stop avoiding him. Maybe it'll open me up to watching his movies. I just remember the last time I paid attention to the movies thread on here, I expressed my avoidance of DiCaprio and was told I can't love film and movies if I don't watch DiCaprio movies, so I'd watch what you say! ;)

[Sgran]

That's what you get for only having uno momento.

You see, I have this condition. So if I seem a little strange to you...

[SteveMax58]

Well, I haven't seen much of his newer stuff. I liked him back in the day, in What's Eating Gilbert Grape, and even Titanic. And he was decent in Revolution Road or whatever htat was called. But I just don't buy him as a leading man, I guess I feel like his voice is too whiny and I felt he was a bit "the same" in everything. So nowadays when I see him as the star vehicle in a piece, I tend to just think it's not going to work for me, and the trailers seem to back that up. But I admit I haven't given him much of a chance these days.

I can't quite remember which films lost me. Would have been years ago probably.

I get this feeling...though for me, it is Keanu Reeves. The guy comes off as the same guy in every movie to me. Like a (slightly) grown up Ted.

[Alan T]

I get this feeling...though for me, it is Keanu Reeves. The guy comes off as the same guy in every movie to me. Like a (slightly) grown up Ted.


I have that same problem but with Nicholas Cage.

[BishopMVP]

Well, I haven't seen much of his newer stuff. I liked him back in the day, in What's Eating Gilbert Grape, and even Titanic. And he was decent in Revolution Road or whatever htat was called. But I just don't buy him as a leading man, I guess I feel like his voice is too whiny and I felt he was a bit "the same" in everything. So nowadays when I see him as the star vehicle in a piece, I tend to just think it's not going to work for me, and the trailers seem to back that up. But I admit I haven't given him much of a chance these days.

I can't quite remember which films lost me. Would have been years ago probably.He had a bad stretch around Titanic with movies like The Man In the Iron Mask, but 6 of his last 7 have been Catch Me If You Can, The Aviator, The Departed, Blood Diamond, Revolutionary Road and Shutter Island. Saying he's the same guy in every movie isn't much of a criticism, since some of the most enjoyable actors out there essentially play themselves every movie (Denzel Washington, Morgan Freeman, Clint Eastwood).

[Autumn]

I have that same problem but with Nicholas Cage.

Yes, same here, Keanu Reeves and Nicolas Cage I generally can't stand watching for that reason.

I don't think DiCaprio is anywhere on that level. I think he can act, it's just that to me he still looks like he's 14 and so I can't really buy him in a lot of his roles.

And yes, lots of actors play the same role all the time, but the problem with that is, if you don't like that role you're not going to like them in anything. I like Morgan Freeman in just about anything, I can't stand Nicholas Cage in anything.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I can't stand Nicholas Cage in anything.

Nine times out of ten, Nicolas Cage is horrible. Just horrible. But he's had a few shining moments. He's great in "Raising Arizona" and I liked him well enough in "Kick-Ass". Those two are the exception rather than the rule.

Keanu Reeves, on the other hand, isn't good in anything. He happens to have been in some good to excellent films, but those films are good/excellent in spite of him, not because of him.

[Alan T]

Nine times out of ten, Nicolas Cage is horrible. Just horrible. But he's had a few shining moments. He's great in "Raising Arizona" and I liked him well enough in "Kick-Ass". Those two are the exception rather than the rule.

Keanu Reeves, on the other hand, isn't good in anything. He happens to have been in some good to excellent films, but those films are good/excellent in spite of him, not because of him.


Well Raising Arizona was early in his career and an outstanding job. The problem is when he plays the same character in every single movie since, it just gets old. So yes, I did enjoy him in Raising Arizona, but it went down hill fast.

I agree with Autumn though that it really depends on the actor in question though. As I said Cage I can't stand, but others like Pacino or Nicholas or whatnot are usually close to the same character in every movie but they are usually more enjoyable or at least tolerable.

[Chief Rum]

He had a bad stretch around Titanic with movies like The Man In the Iron Mask, but 6 of his last 7 have been Catch Me If You Can, The Aviator, The Departed, Blood Diamond, Revolutionary Road and Shutter Island. Saying he's the same guy in every movie isn't much of a criticism, since some of the most enjoyable actors out there essentially play themselves every movie (Denzel Washington, Morgan Freeman, Clint Eastwood).

I actually enjoyed Man In The Iron Mask, although for me, it was more about enjoying John Malkovich, Jeremy Irons and Gabriel Byrne. DiCaprio was actually more of a sideshow in that.

I think DiCaprio is a fantastic actor, and I'll watch anything he's in. That said, I, too, am sometimes put off a little by his youthful looks. The most recent one for me where it really stood out was Body of Lies. Here he is, supposed to be somewhat of a grizzled veteran spy, and he looks fresh out of high school. Bit of a disconnect (although he did a good job acting in that one, too).

[Autumn]

Yes, that is more accurate. I liked Nicholas Cage early in his career when he was playing that zany sort of character. Buying him as an action star or a leading man is where he lost me I suppose.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I have only seen to movies with Leo, since Titanic: Gangs of New York and Shutter Island. I wasn't thrilled with anyting in Gangs of New York, other than Daniel Day Lewis, but I thought he was great in "Shutter Island." I was really impressed with him in quite a few scenes.

I consider his presence in a movie to be a bonus rather than a negative, but not a huge bonus. I think it's more of the fact that he seems pretty good about picking projects, so I have some faith that if he's in it, it will be decent.

Christopher Nolan has more than earned my trust.

The rest of the cast is very solid.

And having Ellen Page and Marion Cotillard in it is like having a sweet, little Canadian Cherry on top with some delicious French Whipped Cream on the side. Scrumptious!

(I am pretty sure I have never seen Cotillard in any film, but that "Forehead Tittaes" spoof commercial was more than enough to win me over.)

[Honolulu_Blue]

Yes, that is more accurate. I liked Nicholas Cage early in his career when he was playing that zany sort of character. Buying him as an action star or a leading man is where he lost me I suppose.

I never understood why anyone thought he would make a good action star. It was baffling when it first started and remains so.

[Chief Rum]

I never understood why anyone thought he would make a good action star. It was baffling when it first started and remains so.

He always felt like a poor fit for the genre to me as well. That said, I admit to enjoying both The Rock and Con Air on a guilty pleasure level.

[Honolulu_Blue]

He always felt like a poor fit for the genre to me as well. That said, I admit to enjoying both The Rock and Con Air on a guilty pleasure level.

While I have never been able to embrace either of those, I find it impossible to turn off "Gone In 60 Seconds" whenever it's on. I know it's not a particularly good movie and Cage is beyond awful in it, but I can't. stop. watching. The presence of crazy, dread-locked Angelina Jolie plays no small part in this affliction.

[Alan T]

He always felt like a poor fit for the genre to me as well. That said, I admit to enjoying both The Rock and Con Air on a guilty pleasure level.


The Rock and Con Air are both fun movies for me too, neither one due to Cage though at all. For me Sean Connery and Ed harris made the Rock a good movie. Con Air was good for Malkovich.


Cage probably isn't that bad in movies where he has an overshadowing personality in the film that helps you not focus on him the entire time.

[samifan24]

Alright, I'll say it: I don't get why everyone loves Ellen Page. She's ok but nothing worth getting excited about in my book. She was good in "Juno" but I have no idea why she was cast in those Cisco commercials.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Alright, I'll say it: I don't get why everyone loves Ellen Page. She's ok but nothing worth getting excited about in my book. She was good in "Juno" but I have no idea why she was cast in those Cisco commercials.

I am pretty sure that "not everyone" loves Ellen page. I'm sure more people feel like you do than actually really like her. We're just a vocal minority.

I find her delightful. Not sure exactly why, but I do. Sure, she's not super smoking hot, but she's pretty enough and seems very likeable. She's got a good presence about her.

As an actress, I've liked her in whatever I've seen her in, such as "Hard Candy" and "Juno."

I don't understand those Cisco commercials in the slightest, but it makes me happy to see her, so I deal.

[DanGarion]

I wasn't a huge fan if his early on

Growing Pains?

[MikeVic]

I am pretty sure that "not everyone" loves Ellen page. I'm sure more people feel like you do than actually really like her. We're just a vocal minority.

I find her delightful. Not sure exactly why, but I do. Sure, she's not super smoking hot, but she's pretty enough and seems very likeable. She's got a good presence about her.

As an actress, I've liked her in whatever I've seen her in, such as "Hard Candy" and "Juno."

I don't understand those Cisco commercials in the slightest, but it makes me happy to see her, so I deal.

+1.

I don't know what it is about her either, but I like her a lot. I like how she comes off on screen, and in interviews I've seen.

[Sgran]

Leo's as good as Bale and 10 times better than Hugh Jackman, so I've got no problem with the casting of Inception. And, as always, Michael Caine will be great (does that guy never age?).

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

First reviews are coming out and are outstanding.

We round up Inception's early reviews. Does it live up to the hype? (http://io9.com/5580002/inceptions-early-reviews-are-almost-all-raves-are-you-excited-yet)

Spoilers towards the end of the article, but they clearly delineate the spoiler-free part from the spoiler part.

Being compared to the best of Kubrick's work makes me even more excited to see this.

[MrBug708]

Keanu Reeves, Nicolas Cage, and Leo DiCaprio. One of these is not like the others.

Dicaprio is one of the most consistently good actors in Hollywood. It's only a matter of time til he wins an Oscar

[jeff061]

Cage in Adaptation was awesome. That movie alone makes it painful to see him in all his other garbage roles.

[Johnny93g]

Keanu Reeves, Nicolas Cage, and Leo DiCaprio. One of these is not like the others.

Dicaprio is one of the most consistently good actors in Hollywood. It's only a matter of time til he wins an Oscar

I can't believe you actually grouped these 3 together!!!

I know what your saying though, Leo has become on of my favourite actors, i've enjoyed just about everything he's done in the last 10 to 12 years. Even things he did in the 90's, like This Boy's Life, Basketball Diaries and The Man in the Iron Mask. I'm really looking forward to Inception

[Pyser]

saw this 2 weeks ago.

its excellent.

[Lathum]

It looks like a live action Paprika.

[BishopMVP]

Growing Pains?I didn't watch TV at that age, so my first exposure to Leo was when Titanic came out in Middle School. I can admit now I may not have given him a fair shake based off his fanbase.

Movie comes out Thursday. I really hope it does well because otherwise Hollywood is going to swing even further towards sequels, remakes and movies based off Ashton Kutcher and Cameron Diaz.“Nobody thinks it’s a bad movie,” an executive from a rival studio stressed. “The question is whether it’s going to be the real breakout picture that everybody seems to think or just the darling of the East and West coasts and miss the rest of the country.”
There lies the rub: how to entice Middle America without a lot of complicated explication? The Nolan and DiCaprio connections obviously help, not to mention a supporting cast including Michael Caine, Ellen Page and Marion Cotillard. But what’s a marketing challenge like this doing in the middle of popcorn-pic season?
Awareness has been slow to spread, but a high percentage of those with knowledge of the film show a “definite interest” in seeing “Inception.” Executives around town offer an unusually wide range of projections for the opening weekend, at $40 million-$60 million.
Nolan’s penchant for cinematic riddles has some suggesting the picture basically is a big-ticket art film. Cost estimates run upward of $160 million on “Inception,” which totes a 148-minute running time. “It’s the most expensive version of ‘Memento’ you could ever make,” an exec from a rival studio quipped, referring to Nolan’s acclaimed 2000 debut. “But it is unique in the marketplace, and I credit them for that.”

[Chief Rum]

This movie is brilliant.

[BishopMVP]

$21 million on Friday, much better than the Sorcerer's Apprentice at least. I give it a 9/10. Definitely worth seeing in a theater, and I'll be interested to see how it holds up to a repeat viewing.If anything, it didn't have a real emotional climax because it was just non-stop intensity for the last like hour and a half. Maybe it was because this was the first Nolan movie where I felt like I knew where the plot was going (Cobb being responsible for his wife's death, the top still spinning at the end) or just that Cobb's emotional journey was filled with too much expository dialogue between him and Ellen Page - almost like it got dumbed down after early test-screening. There were also a couple things that confused me - the freight train in dream level 1, was it part of Fischer's defenses, was it Mal messing with Cobb, was it Cobb's mind falling apart? The second was with the forger - he could clearly alter the dream-states - looking like Browning/changing what's in the vault based off what Fischer tells him/pulling out a rocket-launcher at the warehouse - so why wouldn't he pull out a rocket launcher or something similar again during the snow fortress scene instead of engaging in hand to hand combat? Maybe I'm overthinking this :)

[JetsIn06]

Amazing amazing amazing amazing.

[dawgfan]

Maybe I'm overthinking this :)
I enjoyed the hell out of it when I saw it Thursday night, and was curious when some of my co-workers were picking it apart yesterday. They made some good points, but I'm not really sure I care - I was caught up in the moment. What will be interesting is how I react when I see it again.

[BishopMVP]

I enjoyed the hell out of it when I saw it Thursday night, and was curious when some of my co-workers were picking it apart yesterday. They made some good points, but I'm not really sure I care - I was caught up in the moment. What will be interesting is how I react when I see it again.It's the downside to having such high expectations going in - I'll focus on picking apart the little flaws instead of admiring the beauty of the forest. Don't get me wrong though - I loved it. That last hour and a half - I don't think I've ever seen a film that kept the tension up that high for taht long across multiple levels and storylines. I can complain a little about the script, but the production and direction was phenomenal across the board.

[samifan24]

An amazing movie going experience. I've been a Nolan fan since Memento and even own his first film out of film school, Following, and he's never steered me wrong. Inception is simply fantastic.

[MikeVic]

Awesome. I feel like I need to watch it again.


I like that I was so occupied with following the story that I didn't even predict the ending being the simplest solution!

[Lathum]

Ok. I have to het a baby sitter and see this.

[Scoobz0202]

Watched it last night. Recruited a friend to go back with me today. I need to watch it again. It was great great great.

[Scoobz0202]

On my second go around I am going to see if I can verify either of these

1) It's real

2) Michael Caine was the architect. The whole thing was a dream. He is trying to perform an Inception on Leo. To either see if he killed his daughter or to try and bring him back to reality

3) Mal was right. She escaped by killing herself, and Leo is still stuck in Limbo.

4) This is all a reward from Salto. He promised to get him back home to see his kids and this is really the only way. To get him so deep in Limbo, maybe even a level beyond Limbo, that Leo doesn't know it's fake.

[TroyF]

I'm not sure how it could be #3. He admitted to planting the idea in her head.

I know this thing has tons and tons of levels, but you know what? In my mind the damned thing fell over and he's back home with his kids. That's my dream and I'm sticking to it.



Ridiculously good movie.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Just go back from this.

An amazing movie. Beautiful. Impeccably paced. Interesting. Fantastic stuff.

[Scoobz0202]

On my second go around I am going to see if I can verify either of these

1) It's real

2) Michael Caine was the architect. The whole thing was a dream. He is trying to perform an Inception on Leo. To either see if he killed his daughter or to try and bring him back to reality

3) Mal was right. She escaped by killing herself, and Leo is still stuck in Limbo.

4) This is all a reward from Salto. He promised to get him back home to see his kids and this is really the only way. To get him so deep in Limbo, maybe even a level beyond Limbo, that Leo doesn't know it's fake.



On second viewing I've decided it has to be 1. That's my final answer.

[sabotai]

Lots of good reviews for this so far. I'm going to try to get out and see it during the week.

[Chief Rum]

On second viewing I've decided it has to be 1. That's my final answer.

I haven't seen it a second time yet. I'm not sure which of your options it is, but after the first time, I didn't think it was 1. Care to expand (in spoiler tags, of course) on why you now think it's 1?

[SunDevil]

Inception Explained: Unraveling The Dream Within The Dream (http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Inception-Explained-Unraveling-The-Dream-Within-The-Dream-19615.html)

[Scoobz0202]

I haven't seen it a second time yet. I'm not sure which of your options it is, but after the first time, I didn't think it was 1. Care to expand (in spoiler tags, of course) on why you now think it's 1?



No real concrete evidence but he uses his totem 3-5 times throughout the movie, most of those times is when he comes out of a stress filled dream of his wife. Each time the totem fell over. What else would the end be? Limbo? I just don't buy that. Saito reached for the gun as Cobb explained it to him in Limbo.

The only thing that makes me question it is the children. They were wearing the same exact clothes and were in what I believe is the same position as the memory, which may mean it is still the memory. Except they did turn and look at him, which they never did in the memories we saw.

[cyril]

just testing to see if I know how the spoiler tag works... so I could submit my real post.

[cyril]

I came away believing the last scene was also a dream. My reason for it is not because of the children - the appearance of the same clothes, same postures, etc. could be deja vu.... but all the setups that happened before:

first, throughout the first part of the movie, Cobb just showed up at all these different exotic locations seemingly conveniently to recruit his team, then these team members again seemingly show up collectively at the same place with apparently no time gap at all. True, it could be that the director did not want to bother with showing all the nuances of these characters traveling back and forth... however, it's his decision to go out of the way to show these guys scattered all over the world that prompted me to think that it's a setup to explain the finale... that we are in a layer of dream all along.

In addition to that, the mysterious Michael Caine is indeed too mysterious, first he's a tenured professor in Paris, then in the finale he appears at the airport, seemingly to have been living there for a long time with his grand kids. There is nothing truly illogical in this, the professor could take a break to take care of the kids while Cobb is on exile... but given how meticulous Nolan is... the way he just brushed over any explanation for Michael Caine, I think this is an intentional setup that the appearance of Caine is in a dream.

In the end of the movie, I believe there are a total of six layers of dreams/limbo involved.

[bhlloy]

Amazing, amazing movie. Not exactly what I expected but just very well done and kept you thinking the whole way through, with some very well done action scenes.


The more I think about, the more I like the idea of Michael Caine being the key to the whole plot. He hand picks Ariadne to take the job, and she's very agressive at getting to the bottom of Cobb's background and what really happened with his wife. If she's working for the Professor, she's there for one reason and that's to find out what really happened to his daughter. There's the inconsistencies of him being in Paris while his wife is in LA looking after the kids and the fact that he seemingly drops everything at the end of the movie to move back to LA with Cobb. I don't think Nolan leaves a character with that many holes unless there is a good reason behind it.

That still leaves me no nearer to figuring out the ending though (is it the professor "forgiving" his son in law and allowing him to come back to his kids in reality, is it a dream that he/Ariadne has created or is it some form of limbo?)

[Pyser]

i bit my tongue on this for a while, but i did all the junket interviews for this movie. they went to various sites, mostly in the uk. but heres the one i did with nolan.

on the way in, i told him all of us press were sitting out in the hallway still trying to figure out the movie. he just smiled, but wouldnt indulge me. anyway, heres a link to my interview:

Exclusive Interview: Christopher Nolan Talks Inception : HeyUGuys – UK Movie Blog (http://www.heyuguys.co.uk/2010/07/07/exclusive-interview-christopher-nolan-talks-inception/)

[JediKooter]

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[BishopMVP]

Estimated $60.4 million opening weekend, at the high end of expectations, and word of mouth only seems to be helping.
I came away believing the last scene was also a dream. My reason for it is not because of the children - the appearance of the same clothes, same postures, etc. could be deja vu.... but all the setups that happened before:

first, throughout the first part of the movie, Cobb just showed up at all these different exotic locations seemingly conveniently to recruit his team, then these team members again seemingly show up collectively at the same place with apparently no time gap at all. True, it could be that the director did not want to bother with showing all the nuances of these characters traveling back and forth... however, it's his decision to go out of the way to show these guys scattered all over the world that prompted me to think that it's a setup to explain the finale... that we are in a layer of dream all along.

In addition to that, the mysterious Michael Caine is indeed too mysterious, first he's a tenured professor in Paris, then in the finale he appears at the airport, seemingly to have been living there for a long time with his grand kids. There is nothing truly illogical in this, the professor could take a break to take care of the kids while Cobb is on exile... but given how meticulous Nolan is... the way he just brushed over any explanation for Michael Caine, I think this is an intentional setup that the appearance of Caine is in a dream.

In the end of the movie, I believe there are a total of six layers of dreams/limbo involved.

Thoughts, mostly on the ending.I'm leaning towards the dream explanation as well, but pretty much for the exact opposite of your post. I think the kids being the same age is the giveaway. I know we don't have an exact timeline, but given that he's evidently been on the run doing multiple jobs for corporations and the time to set up this operation you have to figure it's been at least 2 years since he fled, which is a significant difference given the ages of the kids.

I don't think believing the final scene is a dream means the rest of it is a dream too, although it's an interesting theory to think about. The travel doesn't bother me - Leo/JG-L/Watanabe start in Japan, Watanabe gives Leo/JGL his private plane to fly anywhere, they go to Paris to meet Page, Leo takes a trip to Kenya to meet the Forger/the Chemist where Watanabe shows up again, they go back to Paris and finally to Sydney. Since Watanabe owns his private plane in the beginning and buys the airline near the end, I don't think the travel is outlandish. They have research on Fischer, the Forger is working for him, Page is learning how to run the program and they show the team doing a walkthrough of at least level 1. I mean, the movie is already close to 2:30 - did you really need to see Leo on the planes between each place or more of a montage of Ellen Page learning to manipulate the dream world to believe that time is passing?

Caine is even easier to explain. The movie implies that the kids are living in the US with his wife, Leo's mother-in-law, while Caine continues to teach in Paris. Leo says on the phone in the beginning that he's sending presents with grandpa, and Caine tells Leo that it will take more than that for the kids to keep believing they have a father, implying that he's made the trip back and forth multiple times. Plus, if we are to believe that just post-Leo waking up in the airplane is a dream, Caine doesn't really have to be at the airport picking him up anyways. I'm also not sure Caine needs to forgive Leo - Caine is the link between Leo and his kids while the Grandmother doesn't want to deal with him.

[Scoobz0202]

Estimated $60.4 million opening weekend, at the high end of expectations, and word of mouth only seems to be helping.Thoughts, mostly on the ending.I'm leaning towards the dream explanation as well, but pretty much for the exact opposite of your post. I think the kids being the same age is the giveaway. I know we don't have an exact timeline, but given that he's evidently been on the run doing multiple jobs for corporations and the time to set up this operation you have to figure it's been at least 2 years since he fled, which is a significant difference given the ages of the kids.

I don't think believing the final scene is a dream means the rest of it is a dream too, although it's an interesting theory to think about. The travel doesn't bother me - Leo/JG-L/Watanabe start in Japan, Watanabe gives Leo/JGL his private plane to fly anywhere, they go to Paris to meet Page, Leo takes a trip to Kenya to meet the Forger/the Chemist where Watanabe shows up again, they go back to Paris and finally to Sydney. Since Watanabe owns his private plane in the beginning and buys the airline near the end, I don't think the travel is outlandish. They have research on Fischer, the Forger is working for him, Page is learning how to run the program and they show the team doing a walkthrough of at least level 1. I mean, the movie is already close to 2:30 - did you really need to see Leo on the planes between each place or more of a montage of Ellen Page learning to manipulate the dream world to believe that time is passing?

Caine is even easier to explain. The movie implies that the kids are living in the US with his wife, Leo's mother-in-law, while Caine continues to teach in Paris. Leo says on the phone in the beginning that he's sending presents with grandpa, and Caine tells Leo that it will take more than that for the kids to keep believing they have a father, implying that he's made the trip back and forth multiple times. Plus, if we are to believe that just post-Leo waking up in the airplane is a dream, Caine doesn't really have to be at the airport picking him up anyways. I'm also not sure Caine needs to forgive Leo - Caine is the link between Leo and his kids while the Grandmother doesn't want to deal with him.


I wonder how accurate your two years guess is because with these dreams you can have an hour conversation in five minutes, and when we get into dreams within dreams the time gets even more crazy. You can do a lot of work/jobs in a short amount of time with the dreams.

[chadritt]

Another point on the time aspect....how has Saito aged in all the time that Leo was looking for him but Leo hasn't? That doesn't make sense. It has to be something setup to make Leo believe he has found the final level he was looking for.

He got there first and grew that old before Cobb arrived. Remember, time passes exponentially so by that point minutes for Cobb were closer to years for Saito.

[BishopMVP]

I wonder how accurate your two years guess is because with these dreams you can have an hour conversation in five minutes, and when we get into dreams within dreams the time gets even more crazy. You can do a lot of work/jobs in a short amount of time with the dreams.The 2 years+ guess is assuming that the initial level we see - starting when they wake up on the train in Japan, continuing through Paris, Mombasa, and their boarding the Sydney-LA flight is all real. If that level is a dream, then yes, any timeline is possible.

[Scoobz0202]

The 2 years+ guess is assuming that the initial level we see - starting when they wake up on the train in Japan, continuing through Paris, Mombasa, and their boarding the Sydney-LA flight is all real. If that level is a dream, then yes, any timeline is possible.

Good points, and since I'm not sure I believe it was a dream.. I don't know. When you mentioned that about the children I thought about it more and the complexity of this movie is too much for Nolan to end it with an oversight of making the children the same age and in the same clothes. I really do not know what happened anymore

[PadresFan104]

The best argument/theory for the end being real that I have heard yet is the thought that the top isn't actually Cobb's totem. (Remember the safe in Mal's house?) The top is Mal's totem. Cobb's totem is his wedding ring and he doesn't have it on in the end. He does have it on every time in the movie when they are "dreaming" and doesn't have it on when they are in "reality." The top is to fool the other characters of his true totem but I guess it's also supposed to fool the audience - which it has done really well if this theory is correct!!

There's also a rumor that at the end of the film after the cutoff, you can hear the top stop, but since the audience usually makes too much noise at that moment, you can't hear it... Sure will be interesting to see if this one is true!!

Finally, I'm dissapointed that we never saw the girl use her chess piece totem...

[spleen1015]

Saw this last night. I thought it was pretty awesome. I have no idea what is what and I'm not sure I have any theories. I enjoy reading what everyone else has to say though.

[OldGiants]

Excellent movie. When I get a chance and figure out the spoiler tags, I'll post my interpretation of the ending, which is a bit different from any one else's here.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Fellas, maybe we should ask Bishop to change the title of this thread to include a big ole *SPOILERS WITHIN* warning. It's pretty clear that people want to discuss the movie in this thread and a series of *spoiler tag* posts is silly.

[Logan]

Personally I don't think that's even necessary...the movie has already been released, seems like fair game to me.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Personally I don't think that's even necessary...the movie has already been released, seems like fair game to me.

Necessary? No. But it's still polite.

[MikeVic]

I like reading people's theories on what happened. I can't wait for the commentary on the dvd/blue ray!

[Logan]

I like reading people's theories on what happened. I can't wait for the commentary on the dvd/blue ray!

I think it's really cool to read all the theories, even if I'm 100% convinced that there's no way Nolan thought of all these possibilities that I've read (there's some real crazy shit out there). I'd be really surprised if even Nolan felt like he had the "answer" instead of just his own opinion.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Apparently Nolan had been working on this script for 10 years, so, while I doubt he's thought of every potential intepretation, I'm sure he's considered many of them.

I, too, like the ambiguity of the ending. It provides great fodder for discussion and lets the viewer decide for himself what actually happened.

As for my thoughts...

1. I don't really believe the whole movie was a dream or that Michael Caine was the architect of it all. I firmly believe that the real world was the "real world" up until they entered Robert's dreams on the plane. After that, things get a bit trickier...

2. I know one bit of evidence folks of the, Cobb's stuck in a dream world theory, point to is the fact that 1) his kids haven't aged and 2) they are dressed the same. I am not sure if there's any way to really gauge how long it's been since Cobb left home. He still had to explain to his son that "mommy wasn't coming home", so perhaps it wasn't that long. Less than a year perhaps? The amount of travel time isn't really an issue. Saito was funding the project. The man bought an airline. He can get people back and forth to places pretty quickly. Anyway, apparently, according to IMBD credits, there are two credits for each kid. So, it appears as if, they could have used different kids for the shots, thus implying that they were in fact older (by some degree) in the final shot than they appeared in Cobb's dream visions. As for the same outfits, well, coincidence? Dunno.

3. If Cobb was stuck in a dreamworld, I think it would have started around the time he decided to stay in Limbo to find Saito. In that case, it's likely that neither Saito or Cobb ever made it back to reality. So, it's possible that the old man Saito was just a projection in Cobb's mind. Granted, Saito died in Dream World 1 (and all the others) a bit before Cobb decided to stick in Limbo land, so it's possible, given the super accelartion of time, that he grew old fast, whereas Cobb didn't. But, it's also possible that old Saito was just a projection of Cobb's and he created that encounter with Saito to make it more believable to himself that he got Saito back, Saito honored his part of the bargain and Cobb got got to "go home." Maybe that was his way of performing an "inception" in his own mind. He gave himself the idea that he succeeded in his task and, thus, gets his reward.

That sort of mirror's Nolan's protagonist's actions at the end of "Momento", where he uses his "ability" - short term memory loss - to deliberty trick himself into believing he was still looking for his wife's killer to give him purpose, because, with out that, he would be lost.

4. Another thing. At the end of the movie, Cobb gets home and spins that top. In every other scene when he did that, he always waited to watch it fall. Always. In the last scene, however, he spins it, watches it for a second or two, and then goes to see his kids. He doesn't seem to care at all whether it's a dream or reality. And, if he doesn't care, what difference does it really make? (Unless, of course, it is a dream and, at some point, like in that long dream with his wife, he realizes it's all just a facisimile and it starts to crumble/drive him mad.) Does that mean that his "inception" took? Or was he just excited to see his kids and the top eventually stopped spinning.

[PadresFan104]

And, if he doesn't care, what difference does it really make?

I keep coming back to this point in my mind. Whether it falls or not, I think Cobb is finally at peace. Happy ending either way. (Dream or Reality)

[spleen1015]

I took him walking away from the top at the end as his final step in letting go of Mal since it was her totem.

[Honolulu_Blue]

One thing that puzzled me just now...

I am not one to really jump all over the particulars of this movie and the various rules that it established. I think, overall, the rules were pretty tightly adhered to. And, if there are some holes or inconsistencies, so be it, they were minor and didn't really annoy me or irritate me in anyway. I think a lot of it can be explained by saying, it took place in a dream, stuff in dreams often doesn't make a lot of sense and there's definitely a certain flexibility one has in dreams, even if certain rules are followed.

One example that comes to mind, is that I've heard/read some people complain about Eames. They say that if he was able to "conjure up" a gernade launcher at one point and turn himself into Robert's uncle, why didn't he do this sort of thing other times it would be useful? Say, like when he'd fighting that artic assault squad.

My take on all of that is this: We know Eames can take the shape of someone else in a dream whom he studies. As for "conjouring" things, that's debatable. He does have that line "you need to dream bigger" when he pulls out the gernade launcher. For those who think he just conjured it out of nothing is quite an assumption. Who is to say that Ariadne, who constructed the dream, didn't put guns in the safehouse and that Arthur pulled a assault rifle to use and Eames grabbed a gernade launcher and the "dream bigger" line wasn't something to be taken literally? You recall, Arthur and Eames had an early discussion about Arthur not being "original" enough. So, it's really just an assumption (incorrectly, I believe) that Eames has the ability to conjure something up in a dream out of whole cloth.

Even if he could conjure something, maybe he needs time to do it. He needs to concentrate. That seemed to be the case when he turned into the other guy. Also, maybe he needs to be very familiar with what he conjures. In the warehouse, he had the time to concentrate to conjure a gernade launcher, a weapon that he is, perhaps, familiar with in the real world. In the snow sequence, maybe he didn't have the time concentrate to conjure something and/or has no way to conjure something he's not at all familiar.

Anyway, that was a side track. To my original point:

Assuming that in the end he's back in the real world and that the mission was successful, how exactly did he get Saito out of Limbo?

Presumably, he convinced Saito to pick up the gun and kill himself, which would then wake him up, much like when Cobb and Mal woke up when the train ran over their heads when they were in Limbo. And, presumable, Cobb then took the gun and killed himself, waking himself up.

However, when Cobb and Mal killed themselves in Limbo they weren't under that powerful sedative. They were just sleeping under the normal amount of chemcials and, thus, presumably dying at any point would have woken them up. Here, however, both Cobb and Saito were under the super chemical in which killing doesn't wake you up, but rather sends you to Limbo, so why would killing yourself in Dream Limbo wake you up if you're still under the sedative?

I guess, perhaps the sedative could have worn off by the end of the flight, when they awoke, and at that point and dying in a dream would have its normal effect.

[spleen1015]

The one thing I never did grasp was how Saito and Cobb got out of limbo. I think I missed some dialogue.

[bhlloy]

Yeah that was a little weak. I think it was explained that he just couldn't do it to her, but that's not the most convincing explanation ever.

I also agree with HB's take on Eames. I didn't get the impression that he could just conjur things out of air and I think people are taking that one scene too literally. I think it was mentioned at some point that he would really have to study the godfather to have any chance of pulling it off, it's not like he's a shapeshifter.

[dawgfan]

Anyway, apparently, according to IMBD credits, there are two credits for each kid. So, it appears as if, they could have used different kids for the shots, thus implying that they were in fact older (by some degree) in the final shot than they appeared in Cobb's dream visions.
Hmm, did it strike anyone else that when Cobb had the phone conversation with his kids that the daughter sounded older than the vision of her we'd seen elsewhere in the movie? If there were indeed 2 actors each for both of the kids, maybe one set was for the phone call...

[spleen1015]

Hmm, did it strike anyone else that when Cobb had the phone conversation with his kids that the daughter sounded older than the vision of her we'd seen elsewhere in the movie? If there were indeed 2 actors each for both of the kids, maybe one set was for the phone call...

I thought the son sounded much older, like in his teens older.

[stevew]

Maybe I'll watch it again. Right now, I almost lean negative. I'd compare this movie to some dude who watched Usual Suspects. Then watched The Matrix. And he ran out of story about 75% of the way through, and decided to run a swerve with the basic audience/storyteller relationship in order to create a perception of depth throughout the story that maybe just isn't there. Maybe I'm in the it's a 7/10 movie(entertaining) camp instead of the 10/10(awesome) camp.

[jeff061]

The best argument/theory for the end being real that I have heard yet is the thought that the top isn't actually Cobb's totem. (Remember the safe in Mal's house?) The top is Mal's totem. Cobb's totem is his wedding ring and he doesn't have it on in the end. He does have it on every time in the movie when they are "dreaming" and doesn't have it on when they are in "reality." The top is to fool the other characters of his true totem but I guess it's also supposed to fool the audience - which it has done really well if this theory is correct!!
This could also be an argument toward a dream. I like the idea that whether the top stops spinning or not is irrelevant, it's that he doesn't wait to see what it does that's important(if he's in a dream, he doesn't care). The ring could be "dreamed off" either because he doesn't want to know the answer or he doesn't want to be reminded of it.

My feeling is the last scene is definitely a dream. Partly because of what I just wrote and simply because the final scene with the kids is nearly a carbon copy of his last memory of them. That's a bit much.

Part of the reason I like the movie(wouldn't call it his best, which is not a knock) is that for all of the hype of it being another Memento mind bender, it wasn't that complicated. He took what could have been a complex and convoluted idea and made it pretty simple without dumbing things down much. And apparently put enough meat into it to leave discussion.

Nolan's body of work from the moment he stepped on the scene is just jaw dropping.

[Crapshoot]

4. Another thing. At the end of the movie, Cobb gets home and spins that top. In every other scene when he did that, he always waited to watch it fall. Always. In the last scene, however, he spins it, watches it for a second or two, and then goes to see his kids. He doesn't seem to care at all whether it's a dream or reality. And, if he doesn't care, what difference does it really make? (Unless, of course, it is a dream and, at some point, like in that long dream with his wife, he realizes it's all just a facisimile and it starts to crumble/drive him mad.) Does that mean that his "inception" took? Or was he just excited to see his kids and the top eventually stopped spinning.

4 is my interpretation - it just doesn't matter. I don't like it (I think the world Nolan built is more interesting than the plot that he uses to showcase it), but I think its very clear (remember the line about the railway tracks? It doesn't matter where we're going, because I'm going there with you).

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Maybe I'll watch it again. Right now, I almost lean negative. I'd compare this movie to some dude who watched Usual Suspects. Then watched The Matrix. And he ran out of story about 75% of the way through, and decided to run a swerve with the basic audience/storyteller relationship in order to create a perception of depth throughout the story that maybe just isn't there. Maybe I'm in the it's a 7/10 movie(entertaining) camp instead of the 10/10(awesome) camp.

I'm with you on this. I found the movie to be quite entertaining, but I think the problem is that there is no greater meaning or theme to the movie. At first, like everyone else I was debating what happened at the end, but then I came to the conclusion that it didn't really matter at all.

You bring up the matrix which had a terrific theme. Would people give up some measure of control to live in a dream world or would they pick the real world but not have as nice of a life or something along those lines.

For inception, I'm not sure what is really at stake and that's why to me it doesn't matter what happens to Cobb.

[jeff061]

Why does it have to be a "meaning" movie? I don't think it was intended as that at all. I think it was just an action movie set in dreams because we all have bizarre ones at some point.

Totally agree.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I think people are trying to read way too much into this movie. It's an action movie set in a crazy world with a guy trying to get past the death of his wife that he feels partially responsible for. That's it. Don't look into it anymore than that other than to figure out whether or not he's dreaming or whether or not he's "out".

I agree with this. I think you can read any kind of meaning you want into it really. It doesn't necessarily have to have some deep philosophy or meaning. If you want to dig around and look for it, I'm sure you could find it. People also are under the impression that Nolan thinks this movie is deep or has some great meaning. Maybe he said that in an interview or something, I don't know, but who is to say he just didn't make a very clever, absolutely stunning action movie with a solid cast.

The Matrix comparison is a good one and one I've made elsewhere. I think both are fantastic. You start to get into trouble when you start thinking your movie is something more than it is or has some deep philosophy (see, e.g., the Matrix sequels.)

[stevew]

Why does it have to be a "meaning" movie? I don't think it was intended as that at all. I think it was just an action movie set in dreams because we all have bizarre ones at some point.

because it is extremely well reviewed and is easily even money or better for a best picture nod.

[jeff061]

Especially with Dicaprio.

It may be an action movie at it's core, but it's not a Michael Bay flick.

[BishopMVP]

I'm with you on this. I found the movie to be quite entertaining, but I think the problem is that there is no greater meaning or theme to the movie. At first, like everyone else I was debating what happened at the end, but then I came to the conclusion that it didn't really matter at all.

You bring up the matrix which had a terrific theme. Would people give up some measure of control to live in a dream world or would they pick the real world but not have as nice of a life or something along those lines.

For inception, I'm not sure what is really at stake and that's why to me it doesn't matter what happens to Cobb.I actually think that's the same overarching question Nolan was aiming to pose - what does it mean to be real vs. our perception being reality? And as long as the person is happy, does it matter whether their perception is "real" or not? It's as deep and interesting as any particular person wants it to be - if that's a question you're interested in exploring, it opens a door to it without pretending it has the answer, but if you couldn't really care less and wanted to see a closed-loop Hollywood blockbuster that's available for you too. But trying to say the Matrix had a great theme while Inception doesn't - particularly if we consider the sequels where it's clear the ambiguity of the first one was what made it special rather than any answer the Wachowski brothers gave - is misguided imo.

[FF]

can anyone tell me what scenes they remember leo spinning the top and then seeing it fall over?

i remember once in kyoto, and then once in africa (but i dont think he actually succeeds in spinning it, it just kinda falls over).

and can someone confirm that its said the totem is to make sure youre not in someone elses dream?

[cyril]

i am glad that the movie is doing so well, I wish there are more movies like this being made. I don't think it's just an entertaining action movie (though I do wish there is less gun shooting), given Nolan did Memento, which remains one of my very favorite movies. BTW, those who likes Inception or Memento should check out another movie called "Machinist" starring Christian Bale, similar genre, also very excellent IMO.

[Chief Rum]

Because they nominate 10 movies now, that argument of it being a best picture nod is long dead. If there were only 5 nominations, this would not get nominated.

I'll give we don't know about the traditional Oscar worthy films coming at the end of the year yet, but unless it's just an amazing year for great Oscar movies, no way this would not get nominated for Best Picture, even with five noms only.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I'll give we don't know about the traditional Oscar worthy films coming at the end of the year yet, but unless it's just an amazing year for great Oscar movies, no way this would not get nominated for Best Picture, even with five noms only.

I agree. Granted, it's a bit early to say at this point. Most Best Picture potential films are usually released later in the year closer to the nomination process. Overall, this has been a pretty shitty year for films. At this point, what else is even in the running?

[TroyF]

I think people are trying to read way too much into this movie. It's an action movie set in a crazy world with a guy trying to get past the death of his wife that he feels partially responsible for. That's it. Don't look into it anymore than that other than to figure out whether or not he's dreaming or whether or not he's "out".

Movies, like art, literature or music can be interpreted differently by different people. If you want to look at a painting and go "pretty cool" and walk away, you can. If you are like me and look at a classic painting and go "ummm, I don't get it", you can do that too.

I think this movie succeeds on a lot of levels, but first and foremost is that it has something for everyone. If you just like Summer action flicks, I think this has enough action and suspense to make you happy.

But I think it's fairly obvious that Nolan meant this film to be deeper and have meaning. What that meaning is? I'm still working it out, I love all of the theories. My personal opinion is Nolan pulled an Inception on all of us. Like Mal, we are looking for reasons as to why the world isn't real and we assume it's a dream.

I don't think a script ten years in the making was simply meant as a summer blockbuster.

Just my opinion.

[samifan24]

i am glad that the movie is doing so well, I wish there are more movies like this being made. I don't think it's just an entertaining action movie (though I do wish there is less gun shooting), given Nolan did Memento, which remains one of my very favorite movies. BTW, those who likes Inception or Memento should check out another movie called "Machinist" starring Christian Bale, similar genre, also very excellent IMO.

The Machinist is a good one, tough to watch though because Bale lost like 100 pounds to play the role. He looks like a walking corpse in that movie.

[Chief Rum]

Animated films Toy Story 3 and How to Train Your Dragon could get nominated. I expect at least one of them, or Despicable Me, to be in there.

Exit Through The Gift Shop and Please Give could sneak in.

Winter's Bone should be a lock.

Babies might get a look.

Shutter Island.

Green Zone could get a look.

Crazy Heart would be my pick to win so far.

Not a great year but 5-6 films that are legit picture of the year options and Crazy Heart is a head above as far as I'm concerned.

I have seen all of those animated movies. Only Toy Story has a chance among them, IMO, and that would only be in a weak year for Oscar with the ten 10 noms. Good movies, great for kids, not best pic worthy, IMO.

Crazy Heart was a 2009 movie, and, in fact, was nominated for this past year's Academy Awards.

I loved Shutter Island, but I don't see that getting a Best Pic nom either, even in a ten nom year. Maybe if Scorsese hadn't won his Oscar, sure, but it's not good enough on its own without the emotional Academy support.

I haven't seen the others, but it's very hard to get an Oscar nom when you're released from January to June. Only one of the others I have even heard about is Babies, and I don't see the Academy giving a Best Pic nod for that sorta movie. If it qualifies as a documentary (and it seems like it could), then I could see it in that category.

[Groundhog]

Just got back from the cinema. Need to give this one some more thought. There are a couple of scenes in particular during the first half of the film that, in hindsight, might have implied more than I first thought.

[Chief Rum]

Forgot all about Crazy Heart getting in but it was a 2010 release (Feb 5). It's not been a great year but I'm pretty sure Shutter Island and Inception have good shots. I could see Despicable Me sneaking in with TS3.

Green Zone could sneak in due to its political leanings. Winter's Bone and Exit Through the Gift shop are the kind of excellent indie films that often get nominated and the 10 movie option makes both appealing.

There are a few things that I haven't seen/haven't come out yet that may fit in the mix. I'm going to catch "The Kids Are Alright" in a few days and the reviews are fantastic.

The Tillman Story has a chance to get in the mix if it's done well.

Pretty sure Eat, Pray, Love, Saw VII, Freakanomics and Jackass 3 aren't going to make it.

Well, it might have gone wide on Feb. 5, 2010, but Crazy Heart is a 2009 movie that saw limited release in late December. Most people outside of LA or NYC, of course, wouldn't have gotten a chance to see it until much later.

Like I was saying before, I haven't seen none of those, so you might know better than I. Just noting that the Academy doesn't usually give Best Pic noms to movies from the first half of the previous calendar year. Even last year as the first with ten noms, the only movie nom'd that was released before July 1 was Up. So while those might be deserving, the Academy doesn't have a good history of recognizing those. I guess we'll just have to see.

Have you seen Despicable Me? I liked it well enough, but even in a year with 10 noms, it's just not a good enough movie to get a pick. TS3's the only one of those animated films that has a chance, IMO.

I wouldn't mind seeing Shutter Island getting a nom, but I don't think it will. But like I said, I guess we can revisit this thread next January when noms are announced.

[Chubby]

arrgh I need to see this

[Matthean]

Granted, it's a bit early to say at this point. Most Best Picture potential films are usually released later in the year closer to the nomination process.

Which is why I wouldn't touch making a list of ten films for the Oscars yet because likely more than half of them aren't even released yet. You might be doing good to find 5 that are worthy and to me that's even being kind.

[dawgfan]

Yep - summer is about the big budget popcorn films, winter is about the critical faves. That's a generalization of course, but you're a lot more likely to see films that studios think will be award contenders but not necessarily big money makers released much closer to Christmas.

[Swaggs]

Saw this today and came away very impressed. After the first 15 or 20 minutes I was worried that I wouldn't be able to follow things, but, although it was obviously very complex, it was pretty easy to follow and track back to most of the really important events.

I have a feeling this movie is going to really elevate some young actors (Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Ellen Page, and Tom Hardy) to the next level, as they all seemed to hold their own ground with the DiCaprio. This is the first time I've been able to see Gordon-Levitt and not think of him as the kid from 3rd Rock.

[Groundhog]

Yah, same with me re: Gordon-Levitt, he was solid. Hoping those rumours are true about him being Riddler in the new Batman film.

I think the beauty of Inception is that it wasn't complex in a "what the hell is going on?" kind of way (like, say, Existenz), but more in a ... fundamental way. Like, it's easy to follow the movie (my gf had no problems, and I generally have to explain most movies to her), but it's only as complex as you make it, depending on how far you want to think about what is going on.

[jeff061]

Yeah, Gordon-Levitt was good. Wasn't huge on Ellen Page, I think with her style she may have a limited amount of roles she can really shine in(Juno was perfect).

Dicaprio, you almost wonder just how much of a legend he may end up being 30 or 40 years from now. How many actors have been so consistent starting at such a young age? Like most guys I wasn't a huge fan of most his early work simply due to the roles, but he was still extremely successful.

[Swaggs]

A part of this story reminded me of the Stephen King story called, "The Jaunt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jaunt_(short_story)). Any one else familiar with this short story and have the same thought. I wouldn't be surprised if the film wasn't partially inspired by it.

The concept of time pssing in an accelerated manner or even living an entire lifetime during the dream (as Cobb and Mal apparently did) and then coming back as a young person to do it again is one of the film points that is really sticking with me.

[Chief Rum]

Saw this for the second time yesterday with friends who hadn't seen it yet.

I looked for the wedding ring thing, and confirmed that the ring was on in the lower levels and not in the "top" level. Amazingly, I dropped the ball in the last scene and didn't look at his hands after they return tot he plane ro when he gets home and spins the top.

I saw it enough that it seems clear to the ring thing isn't some accidental thing like they log into movie sites or what not, so that was probably intended as a message. What the message is, of course, is hard to pin down.

I thought I wouldn't enjoy it as much yesterday, but I still did, even knowing what was going on. Glad to see it hold up. A treat just to see the hallway scene again.

Some new thoughts:

1. It was thrown out there that Cobb didn't stay to watch the top because he didn't want to see what happened. I was watching for this yesterday and that's not true. If it was, he would have spun the top and immediately walked on. But he didn't do that. He spun the top and he was concentrating on it. He was looking at for an answer, just as he had previously. But Caine opened the door out to the yard and called out to the kids. Understandably, the second he heard his kids' voices, Cobb looked away from the top and, smiling, went to go hug his kids. I think Cobb was intending to see what happened with the top and got pulled away by the kids. Whatever Nolan intended there, I don't think the message was that Cobb didn't care if it was reality or not.

2. I know it was thrown out there when we all first saw it (and I agreed) that while it was a visual spectacle, there was a little loss of emotional oomph at the end. I mean, the impact of the final shot was real, but our feelings for Cobb and whether he resolved his issue with getting back to his kids, I got the sense a lot of us didn't really connect much with that.

No, something that occurred to me from the first viewing that I focused more the second time around-- there is an emotional attachment, IMO. But it was not for the "Cobb and his kids" issue, but for the survival of the team. Where does the actual emotional lift happen in the movie? It's not when he gets home to see the kids, it's when he wakes up in the plane and takes in the knowing glances of his team members. It's when he's walking through the airport terminal and sharing knowing looks with them, none of them saying a word to one another. That's the emotional reward-- not the kids. The kids were just faceless indications of Mal around the corner to us--the team was real.

3. In listening to the kids' voices on the phone, I don't know if Nolan did it for purposes fo the narrative or if it was just a logical thing of getting a kid to be intelligible on the phone, but it seemed clear to me the girl sounded older than she appears in Cobb's thoughts or in "reality" at the end of the movie.

4. EVIL THOUGHT #1-- Let's say the top level was a dream. I was just thinking of the logistics of doing that. This is not to say Nolan even considered this. I could very well see the top thing being put in there purely to screw with our minds, without any further thought to how it could possibly happen. But if we assume it's another dream state and thought was put into it. What would have to be true?

Cobb is not the dreamer. He is the subject. And he does not appear to be aware he is dreaming, or at least it's not a fully formed thought in his head. That means the dreamer is in the dream with him. Caine has been offered up as the likely dreamer. I see some problems with this, if it's just one more level to reality (and even if it's not). The only way for Cobb to be trapped alone, blssfully unware, would be if he were in Limbo. I could be wrong, but I didn't get the feeling that was still Limbo he was in. Limbo is a shared consciousness--it would have been impossible for someone to build a world for another person and expect them to accept it and live in it, IMO, and for it to remain in place without crumbling over time, like Cobb and Mal's vision of Limbo was doing at the end.

Ergo, it's not Limbo, so it's someone's active dream state and it's not Cobb. That means someone else has chosen to dream with him and remain with him there. That's a pretty hefty choice to make, to essentially sacrifice your life in essentially a vegetative state that could last forever, depending on how far down you are.

Which brings me to my second point. If it's a dream state, even that level can't be the next below reality. Time doesn't go slow enough one level down. The dreamer would need to eat, to survive, and whatever is going on in the reality would be much closer to impacting the dream state. So that means, if this is indeed some elaborate prison fortress for Cobb's psyche set up by someone else, than it has to be two or three levels down itself--whcih means that they were as much six or seven levels down at the ice fortress. Nuts.

And then there are his team members in that supposed dream state. Anyone else think they are supposed to be projections of Cobb's mind? He even speaks about how Mal is just a shade of what his real wife was, the difference between shade and reality. The team members all seemed very real. So they probably were real. So now we're talking about not only a dedicated dreamer for this dream state, but a full on team also diving on, at least to set it up.

5. EVIL THOUGHT #2-- Let's say again that the "top" level is a dream state. This is the level where Mal committed suicide. Now the first time I saw it, I thought, "What if she's right and she dies and wakes up in some even higher reality, only to find that Cobb has not followed her?"

I didn't think of the ramifications the other way around. We know two things can happen when you die in a dream state--one, if you're on a normal sedative, you "wake up" or ascend to a higher dream state (at least). If you're on the heavy sedative, you cannot wake up, so you fall into Limbo.

My assumption was that Mal ascended to a higher consciousness (or it was reality and she just killed herself, of course). What if they were still on a heavy sedative? Even makes sense, since I already posited in EVIL THOUGHT #1 that if that level is a new dream state, it would have to be two or three levels down, and you can't do that without the heavy sedative.

If they were on a heavy sedative in the top dream state when Mal killed herself, she went back to Limbo. Which means, when Cobb went to Limbo to get Fischer back (and eventually Saito), the Mal he met, the one he told was a shade, who could not have possibly matched the complexity of his own wife, was indeed his own wife and not a projection. As to what then happens when she gets shot by Ariadne, that's subject matter for a whole other post, lol.

6. That old French song they used for the "kick" throughout the movie? Title, in French, "Non, Je Ne Regrette Rien." Translation: "No, I don't regret anything."

Nice touch, Nolan.

[DanGarion]

We saw this over the weekend, and I haven't got to reading what everyone else has had to say yet, but did anyone bring up the fact that his item wasn't actually his, it was his wife's (the top)?

[Chief Rum]

We saw this over the weekend, and I haven't got to reading what everyone else has had to say yet, but did anyone bring up the fact that his item wasn't actually his, it was his wife's (the top)?

Did you see it at the Block? That's where we went yesterday. ;)

It has occurred to me. I tend tot hink the concept works, wheover spins it, but, yeah, that's tricky.

Here's the fun part--if the top level is indeed a dream state, then the totem was apparently made in the dream state. And who the heck knows what sort of rules apply for totems that themselves aren't actually real?

[DanGarion]

I think people are trying to read way too much into this movie. It's an action movie set in a crazy world with a guy trying to get past the death of his wife that he feels partially responsible for. That's it. Don't look into it anymore than that other than to figure out whether or not he's dreaming or whether or not he's "out".

Didn't your years of schooling teach you anything, everything you read or watch has to have a theme and has to have meaning...

[DanGarion]

Did you see it at the Block? That's where we went yesterday. ;)

It has occurred to me. I tend tot hink the concept works, wheover spins it, but, yeah, that's tricky.

Here's the fun part--if the top level is indeed a dream state, then the totem was apparently made in the dream state. And who the heck knows what sort of rules apply for totems that themselves aren't actually real?

No we never go to the Block, we go to Century Stadium. We paid extra to see it in the xD theater there.

I'm starting to believe that Leo's item was actually his wedding ring as someone mentioned earlier.

[Chief Rum]

No we never go to the Block, we go to Century Stadium. We paid extra to see it in the xD theater there.

I'm starting to believe that Leo's item was actually his wedding ring as someone mentioned earlier.

I like the Century Stadium, but I rarely go over there. Neither the Block nor the Stadium are right near where I am, so if I go over that way, I'll probably end up at the Block simply because I used to live right there and practically walked to the Block whenever I wanted to see a movie.

Century Stadium seems like a good theater to go to.

[FF]

Chief, I saw it again for a 2nd time yesterday as well and just came away with more questions.

My question to you is... do you think he goes another level after 'limbo' where we see him with Mal, Ariadne, and Fischer to save Saito?

I also get the feeling that the wedding ring is merely a red herring

[Toddzilla]

Every time I heard that french song all I could think about was Bull Durham.

[Chief Rum]

Chief, I saw it again for a 2nd time yesterday as well and just came away with more questions.

My question to you is... do you think he goes another level after 'limbo' where we see him with Mal, Ariadne, and Fischer to save Saito?

I also get the feeling that the wedding ring is merely a red herring

I am still working out the end part with Saito, actually. That's probably the main part left that really confuses me, how that all came to be, how killing themselves that time got them out, why Saito was so much older than Cobb, etc.

I could have the concept of Limbo wrong, but as I understand it, there is only one Limbo. It's some sort of shared consciousness for all of humanity. So by definition, Saito and Cobb had to be in the same Limbo. I can only guess it took some time for Cobb to locate where Saito's imagination put him, and to also think that perhaps Limbo's rules with respect to the passing of time is more malleable than the other levels--maybe time can run at different speeds in different parts of Limbo, depending on the dreamer.

[TroyF]

I am still working out the end part with Saito, actually. That's probably the main part left that really confuses me, how that all came to be, how killing themselves that time got them out, why Saito was so much older than Cobb, etc.

I could have the concept of Limbo wrong, but as I understand it, there is only one Limbo. It's some sort of shared consciousness for all of humanity. So by definition, Saito and Cobb had to be in the same Limbo. I can only guess it took some time for Cobb to locate where Saito's imagination put him, and to also think that perhaps Limbo's rules with respect to the passing of time is more malleable than the other levels--maybe time can run at different speeds in different parts of Limbo, depending on the dreamer.

Cobb came in and out of Liimbo twice. The first time he came back he would have been kicked to level one, where he drowned in the van. That would have thrown him into the second limbo. Who knows how long Cobb stayed in the first Limbo before he was sent to the second. But when he was sent to the second Limbo, he'd have started at the same age while Saito would have been there a lot longer than he was and would have aged.

That's my weak analysis of it anyway.

[Butter]

Saw this last night... and just, wow. I think the movie was so intricately built, that it can mean something different for each individual viewing it. For those that don't like to think too much during a movie, at the end everything's real and he finally made it. For those that like to pick things apart, at the end he's still dreaming and he's never going to make it back to reality. And under that possibility, there are even more possible resolutions as to why he's still there and what it all means.

Just an unbelievable film by a master craftsman. Between this, The Dark Knight, and Memento (among others), Nolan has reached Kubrickian levels of respect for me, making any of his projects an automatic watch.

I mean, I saw "Eyes Wide Shut" in the theater for God's sake.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I mean, I saw "Eyes Wide Shut" in the theater for God's sake.

I did too. And I regretted it.

[jeff061]

Nolan seems to not be a perfectionist to a neurotic degree like Kubrick was. Which is good. We'll get more than one movie out of him every couple decades.

[rowech]

Just got back from watching it the second time...two things I noticed this time around and then my final verdict.....

1) When Leo meets Caine to set something up, Caine is in France, yet at the end of the movie, he is not. He is in LA. (I'd also love to know what all the stuff on the chalkboard behind Caine actuall says...it's all in French)


2. There is one point in time in the movie that Leo doesn't get to see the result of him spinning the top. After waking from the dream state in the underground sleeping chamber he runs to the bathroom, looks in a mirror, splashes water on his face, spins the top but it doesn't spin properly. He fumbles with it and then Saito comes in to ask if everything is alright.

What are these two important to me...

It is very clear to me that Michael Caine set all this up and the only thing that is "real" is when we see them wake up on the plane and that point forward. The first time Leo goes to sleep is on the plane and we do not see this. So what appears to be "reality" is in fact Leo's first level.

Him being with Saito within Saito's dreams, meeting with Caine, meeting Paige, assembling his team, all the way to going to Dubai, all the way into the sleep chamber is all part of this first level. He moves to his own personal second level when he falls asleep in the sleep chamber. Willingly falls asleep because he is observing how good the sedative is. He "wakes up" from this goes to the bathroom, water, top, fumble, and he never sees the result of the top spinning because of Saito's interruption. They had to stop him from seeing the result because then he would know he was dreaming.

So then every level in the movie from that point on is actually one level past what it appears to be. All of the characters within the dream worlds are actively pusing Leo to the carthasis...the one he has to believe that he developed with his own thoughts. I felt this way the first time I saw it and watching it again just made it even stronger. Everytime he was ready to give up, someone suggested something or someone in order to push him farther. That way the idea appeared to be his when in fact it wasn't. Fisher's carthasis was nothing but a driving force to keep Leo going down the levels...he thought he was doing a job. He was having the job done on him. All the way down to the final jump with Ellen Page's character and himself. The final level, all the way down to his own guarded secret...the absolute guilt of the inception.

Everything gets kicked back up, they wake up on the plane, but Fischer was never the subject...it was always Leo.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

[Pyser]

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[Chief Rum]

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That's awesome.

Only hits home more that the name of of the song is "I don't regret anything", and that was a key theme in the relationship between Cobb and Mal.

[Chief Rum]

Just got back from watching it the second time...two things I noticed this time around and then my final verdict.....

1) When Leo meets Caine to set something up, Caine is in France, yet at the end of the movie, he is not. He is in LA. (I'd also love to know what all the stuff on the chalkboard behind Caine actuall says...it's all in French)


2. There is one point in time in the movie that Leo doesn't get to see the result of him spinning the top. After waking from the dream state in the underground sleeping chamber he runs to the bathroom, looks in a mirror, splashes water on his face, spins the top but it doesn't spin properly. He fumbles with it and then Saito comes in to ask if everything is alright.

What are these two important to me...

It is very clear to me that Michael Caine set all this up and the only thing that is "real" is when we see them wake up on the plane and that point forward. The first time Leo goes to sleep is on the plane and we do not see this. So what appears to be "reality" is in fact Leo's first level.

Him being with Saito within Saito's dreams, meeting with Caine, meeting Paige, assembling his team, all the way to going to Dubai, all the way into the sleep chamber is all part of this first level. He moves to his own personal second level when he falls asleep in the sleep chamber. Willingly falls asleep because he is observing how good the sedative is. He "wakes up" from this goes to the bathroom, water, top, fumble, and he never sees the result of the top spinning because of Saito's interruption. They had to stop him from seeing the result because then he would know he was dreaming.

So then every level in the movie from that point on is actually one level past what it appears to be. All of the characters within the dream worlds are actively pusing Leo to the carthasis...the one he has to believe that he developed with his own thoughts. I felt this way the first time I saw it and watching it again just made it even stronger. Everytime he was ready to give up, someone suggested something or someone in order to push him farther. That way the idea appeared to be his when in fact it wasn't. Fisher's carthasis was nothing but a driving force to keep Leo going down the levels...he thought he was doing a job. He was having the job done on him. All the way down to the final jump with Ellen Page's character and himself. The final level, all the way down to his own guarded secret...the absolute guilt of the inception.

Everything gets kicked back up, they wake up on the plane, but Fischer was never the subject...it was always Leo.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Pretty interesting hypothesis.

The second time through, I, too, noticed that Cobb failed to finish spinning the top on that scene, and it also occurred to me the head trip factor if that sleep chamber was used as some kind of separation from reality point. Although I certainly didn't think it out as far as you did here.

[BishopMVP]

That's awesome.

Only hits home more that the name of of the song is "I don't regret anything", and that was a key theme in the relationship between Cobb and Mal.And it was sung by Edith Piaf, played by Marion Cotillard (Mal) when she won her Oscar. Christopher Nolan almost changed the song because he felt the connection would be too distracting for audiences (just slightly overestimating the majority of filmgoers) but Hans Zimmer convinced him to keep it.

Speaking of connections we missed, how did we not see that this was essentially a remake of a previous movie?

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[sovereignstar]

Not the largest soundtrack collector at all, but I love the score in the movie.

[Sgran]

Finally got to see this tonight. Here are my scrambled musings:
1. The score thing is a neat trick, but the sound editing at the end of the movie is barbaric. The last 45 minutes felt like I was being audibly bludgeoned. Couldn't they have taken it down a bit? Related to that: the winter fortress part needed to be edited out. Eames' commando scenes were boring by that point, taking us away from the interesting parts.
2. The movie is about Leo being able to "face" his children. With this in mind, I'm more and more inclined to believe that Caine was behind the entire rescue mission of Leo from Limbo. Leo didn't want o let go of Mal. Caine sent in Paige (a real person) to make Leo face his feelings. She's there to talk him off the ledge, to get him to return from a place where he exists with Mal. This explanation, however, does not explain why he needs Saito, unless that's all background dressing to get him to believe that the entire scenario is real. Consistency with the theme of the movie suggests that it is actually Leo who is being Incepted with an idea (by Caine, presumably).
3. Someone help me out: how are we introduced to the chemist? Does Leo already know him?
4. More fuel for the theory that the whole thing is for Leo comes from Mal's speech where she suggests that Leo is actually the delusional one. She references the shadowy paramilitary that is hunting him down. His whole chase scene in Africa (?) has a dreamlike quality with all the near misses and narrow squeezes.
5. What about the pinwheel? Is that Leo's?
6. Maybe Saito shoots Leo?

I apologize in advance for the typos; It's 2AM and I need some sleep.

[Honolulu_Blue]

3. Someone help me out: how are we introduced to the chemist? Does Leo already know him?

Eames knew him from before.

[Sgran]

I largely agree with this take:

NEVER WAKE UP: THE MEANING AND SECRET OF INCEPTION (http://www.chud.com/articles/articles/24477/1/NEVER-WAKE-UP-THE-MEANING-AND-SECRET-OF-INCEPTION/Page1.html)

[jeff061]

Yeah, you'd have to just toss 95% of the movie out the window as being irrelevant for that idea to work. It's an interesting thought, but it seems like he took DiCaprio's quote(likening it to an autobiographical film) and ran with it. Not sure it works much beyond the "roles".

Plus.
Some find this idea to be narratively repugnant, since they think that a movie where everything is a dream is a movie without stakes, a movie where the audience is wasting their time.

That's me :). He's not saying Caine is an architect of a dream, where the dream directly relates to events in Cobb's life. He's saying Caine doesn't exist and nothing is relevant, it was just an exercise of red herrings and obscure references to Nolan the director. Wrapping everything up as being a dream is just nauseating deus ex machina. Even if Nolan came out and said that was it I'd choose to interpret it otherwise.

[jeff061]

Also, while I'm writing here. I've seen a lot of people depict scenes as being too full of action, close calls or not depicting how someone got to or left a location.

This is a movie(an action one at it's core), a 2.5 hour long movie at that. They need to keep you entertained while not wasting 30 minutes on arrivals and departures :D.

[jeff061]

Funny...I took the lack of arrivals and departures as showing it is a dream. They made that point to Ellen Page's character and Fischer when they talked about how you don't every see yourself arrive in the dream.

Yeah, I get the point and I've seen plenty others make it as well. But like I said, 2.5 hour movie, can't just show everything. Both for story flow and time concerns.

[DaddyTorgo]

I just went and saw it. I thought it was an okay movie, good, but not "MIND BLOWING AMAZING."

It hurt that as soon as they established in the first like 10 minutes that there could be a dream within a dream that I said to myself "that's how it will end somehow," and then as the thing with his wife became clear that became more obvious.

[Swaggs]

I haven't put significant thought into how everything ties together, but I feel like the final seen with his children wearing the same clothes and at the same age as they are in his fantasies/dreams makes me think he ended in a dream (although I don't think the entire film/adventure was a dream).

[Sgran]

I keep getting back to the point that Cobb says he can't dream without going one layer deeper (ie being hooked up to the machine). Maybe this is obvious, but maybe that's his Limbo, that he just keeps going up and down the levels like he's in an elevator. Caine's job is get him moving up the elevator, and that's why you have the job -- to give a timeframe and one-way direction for Cobb. Paige is there to make him face his wife.
In Memento, Nolan specifically chose similar looking actresses to play Shelby's wife and Sammy's wife, so maybe Paige is supposed to be a younger version of Mal for some reason.

[Sgran]

*Shutter Island spoilers*

What the hell is Leo thinking taking two such similar roles? I know they were both cherry, but once he gets hold of Inception doesn't he have to bow out of Shutter Island? Shutter Island is a nice little movie, but Inception was one of those rare films that was swinging for the fences. I realize that no one can ask him about this until people have had a chance to see Inception, but I'm dying to hear Leo's reaction.

[Chief Rum]

*Shutter Island spoilers*

What the hell is Leo thinking taking two such similar roles? I know they were both cherry, but once he gets hold of Inception doesn't he have to bow out of Shutter Island? Shutter Island is a nice little movie, but Inception was one of those rare films that was swinging for the fences. I realize that no one can ask him about this until people have had a chance to see Inception, but I'm dying to hear Leo's reaction.

Scorsese.

And, really, outside of the fact they are both mindfucks, what do the two films have in common? ;)

[Pyser]

i asked leo that

he is very into the "unreliable narrator" right now, was basically the answer

[TroyF]

I haven't put significant thought into how everything ties together, but I feel like the final seen with his children wearing the same clothes and at the same age as they are in his fantasies/dreams makes me think he ended in a dream (although I don't think the entire film/adventure was a dream).


I watched it again last night. (2nd viewing)

Some quick thoughts:

1) The reason I quoted your post is that the kids are NOT wearing the same clothes. The young boy wears the plaid shirt and tan shorts and some sandals throughout the movie. At the end, the shirt is still plaid (but different) and he's wearing jean shorts and sneakers. The little girl wears a pink dress throughout the movie. In the end, she's wearing a pink dress with a white undershirt. Her shoes also changed color and when she turns it's clear she's a little bit older than what we see throughout the rest of the movie.

2) When he's talking to his kids in the hotel and tells them "remember, mommy isn't here anymore" and the kid responds "where" Thought it was interesting.

3) He says the totem is Mal's, we know he took the totem in her mind and spun it to keep going (so she felt like she was always dreaming and death was the only escape) It's clear to me his wedding ring is his totem, the top is just there to throw us off.

4) It's also pretty clear to me that Nolan is giving us all the clues we need. . . that it's a pretty straight forward movie. I think the "twists" and other things cause us to look for reasons the world isn't real at the end. He plants the ideas in our head it isn't real (by getting us to think the clothes are the same for example) and we look for every reason we can to make the "real" world fake.

I could be 100% wrong on this by the way.

5) Last thing. . . I thought Mal's suicide scene was interesting. I'm trying to figure out what it meant. Cobb tells her "come in honey, don't do this," but she can't come in, she's across the street. Why would she have been across the street. Did he dream her suicide? Oh well.

I enjoyed the movie the second time as much as the first. One of my all time favs which makes Nolan have 2 of my personal top 10. (Dark Knight being the other, I liked Momento, but I don't think it's at the level the other two are)

[DaddyTorgo]

I watched it again last night. (2nd viewing)

Some quick thoughts:

1) The reason I quoted your post is that the kids are NOT wearing the same clothes. The young boy wears the plaid shirt and tan shorts and some sandals throughout the movie. At the end, the shirt is still plaid (but different) and he's wearing jean shorts and sneakers. The little girl wears a pink dress throughout the movie. In the end, she's wearing a pink dress with a white undershirt. Her shoes also changed color and when she turns it's clear she's a little bit older than what we see throughout the rest of the movie.

2) When he's talking to his kids in the hotel and tells them "remember, mommy isn't here anymore" and the kid responds "where" Thought it was interesting.

3) He says the totem is Mal's, we know he took the totem in her mind and spun it to keep going (so she felt like she was always dreaming and death was the only escape) It's clear to me his wedding ring is his totem, the top is just there to throw us off.

4) It's also pretty clear to me that Nolan is giving us all the clues we need. . . that it's a pretty straight forward movie. I think the "twists" and other things cause us to look for reasons the world isn't real at the end. He plants the ideas in our head it isn't real (by getting us to think the clothes are the same for example) and we look for every reason we can to make the "real" world fake.

I could be 100% wrong on this by the way.

5) Last thing. . . I thought Mal's suicide scene was interesting. I'm trying to figure out what it meant. Cobb tells her "come in honey, don't do this," but she can't come in, she's across the street. Why would she have been across the street. Did he dream her suicide? Oh well.

I enjoyed the movie the second time as much as the first. One of my all time favs which makes Nolan have 2 of my personal top 10. (Dark Knight being the other, I liked Momento, but I don't think it's at the level the other two are)


Interesting on the clothes. I think you might win.

About the suicide - i thought that was interesting too. maybe he dreamed it, or maybe the suite wrapped around some sort of alleyway so that's how they were across from each other. it did seem kind of "off" to me too. But I rationalized it by saying that was his dream about her suicide - it wasn't going to have all the details correct.

[JeeberD]

In one of the links that someone posted in this thread, there's an update saying that the film's wardrobe director says the clothes are NOT the same at the end of the film, so Troy nailed that one...

[TroyF]

Dunno about winning, but that was my first theory when watching the film and the one thing I couldn't get around was the clothes. If they were the same, it HAD to be a dream. (and when I watched it the first time, I thought they were the same)

I went into the second viewing looking specifically for what, if any changes, the kids clothes went through. In every dream sequence (and his flashback of reality) they are in the first set of clothes. At the end, they are clearly different. They look enough like them to throw you off. (pink dress, plaid shirt, etc.), but they are clearly different. (I'm sure someone will throw stills up eventually and analyze all of the differences)

That made me convinced my theory was correct. Only Nolan knows the true theory, but when discussing the movie we can all put to rest the "kids are in the same clothes" part of any analysis of the film. It's not accurate. I also know Nolan couldn't have made it an accident in how similar they looked. he's trying to do something with it. My theory is described above, I'm sure there are others that will be more interesting than my take.

[Chief Rum]

I always thought when Mal set up her suicide, that she did it that way on purpose, renting the room directly across from the room they always go to. I think she did it so Cobb couldn't physically stop her--they were standing on separate ledges, and he is too far away to make it to her before she jumps (I actually assume he wouldn't even be able to jump the distance, although the ledges do some a little closer than being across a whole street.

One thing about the scene that always stood out to me, and I don't know if we have a satisfactory explanantion: why is the first hotel room (the one Leo's in) all torn up, like someone really went to town in it? And what, if anything, does that all mean?

Troy, good catch on the kids clothes. And you bring up a good point on the totems, too. I have been thinking for a while that his ring must be his totem, and it's pretty well established the top is Mal's totem.

But given all that leads to some questions. The first that occurs to me is, why (and how) does he have the top? As you say, he found her totem in the safe deep inside her mind and set it to spinning again, so that she realized she was in a dream. he necessarily has to have left it there. For him to have the top again, it must be her real one (the one in the safe is just a dream projection of her "setting" on reality), which he would have come into possession with after she killed herself.

The second is, it is clear that Cobb is using the top to establish his reality and not his ring, so I am wondering why? Why doesn't he reach for his ring and be sure it's there, instead of the top each time? Or has he usurped his wife's totem as his own now?

[Poli]

Memento had slight flaws
I knew there was a reason not to like you other than being a ND fan.

[bhlloy]

One thing about the scene that always stood out to me, and I don't know if we have a satisfactory explanantion: why is the first hotel room (the one Leo's in) all torn up, like someone really went to town in it? And what, if anything, does that all mean?


I thought it was explained that she trashed the room to set him up for her murder, which is the ultimate reason he can never go back home. Presumably she thought this would be another reason for him to join her.

[bhlloy]

Which would also explain why she's on the other ledge come to think of it.

[chadritt]

Man, those are some awful cops if they never figured out something was weird.

[AlexB]

When I watched it I thought something wasn't right with the last few scenes, and that there were a couple of strange bits within the 'real' parts of the film. Reading posts here and a couple of the links, I've come to the conclusion that it was all dream levels, and what we thought was reality was not.

The main bits that don't seem right to me are the chase scene is Mombassa where the walls literally were closing in on Cobb - a clear bending of reality, and the suicide scene.

The latter would be easily spotted as suicide if she jumped from the opposite ledge, and Cobb doesn't say 'go inside' as if she's in a room on the opposite side of the street: he says 'come inside' and beckons her across the gap into which she jumps. The room is set up to show a fight and from that fight he pushed her out, but for this to work she had to be in the window where Cobb was. Mixed with the 'come inside' instead of 'go inside' again it bends reality.

The Seito character doesn't sit right in general - the plane company was bought in a very convenient instant, making one call from a plane does not tend to make a murder charge simply disappear, his story about being the lone fighter against worldwide domination of power was taken at face value and not questioned/checked, his facilitator role was just too perfect. Again not real.

I haven't got as far in my head as Michael Caine's character was the orchestrator, but I am pretty much there on the 'none of it was real and it was Cobb trying to sort his head out' explanation.

Really good film.

[TroyF]

But given all that leads to some questions. The first that occurs to me is, why (and how) does he have the top? As you say, he found her totem in the safe deep inside her mind and set it to spinning again, so that she realized she was in a dream. he necessarily has to have left it there. For him to have the top again, it must be her real one (the one in the safe is just a dream projection of her "setting" on reality), which he would have come into possession with after she killed herself.

The second is, it is clear that Cobb is using the top to establish his reality and not his ring, so I am wondering why? Why doesn't he reach for his ring and be sure it's there, instead of the top each time? Or has he usurped his wife's totem as his own now?


He has the top because Mal left it on the hotel room floor. He steps on the glass and looks down. He sees the top. (not sure if the movie shows him picking it up, but I would imagine he did)

[cthomer5000]

I thought the son sounded much older, like in his teens older.

Same here. I initially believed there was a 3rd kid, one of them years older than the young ones. Sounded at least like 10-12 to me.


Basic question: why don't the 'targets' remember the events of the dreams? Did i miss an explanation on this?

In the other instances of them having group dreams (testing, Saito catching on to them, etc)... everyone seems to remember everything. Not that it really matters for the enjoyment of the movie, but did they ever lay out ground rules for how they get someone to NOT remember what they're doing in there?

[cthomer5000]

Also, im no dummy when it comes to following complex movies... but i walked out of there KNOWING i needed to see it again to wrap my head around every thing.

[TroyF]

When I watched it I thought something wasn't right with the last few scenes, and that there were a couple of strange bits within the 'real' parts of the film. Reading posts here and a couple of the links, I've come to the conclusion that it was all dream levels, and what we thought was reality was not.

The main bits that don't seem right to me are the chase scene is Mombassa where the walls literally were closing in on Cobb - a clear bending of reality, and the suicide scene.

The latter would be easily spotted as suicide if she jumped from the opposite ledge, and Cobb doesn't say 'go inside' as if she's in a room on the opposite side of the street: he says 'come inside' and beckons her across the gap into which she jumps. The room is set up to show a fight and from that fight he pushed her out, but for this to work she had to be in the window where Cobb was. Mixed with the 'come inside' instead of 'go inside' again it bends reality.

The Seito character doesn't sit right in general - the plane company was bought in a very convenient instant, making one call from a plane does not tend to make a murder charge simply disappear, his story about being the lone fighter against worldwide domination of power was taken at face value and not questioned/checked, his facilitator role was just too perfect. Again not real.

I haven't got as far in my head as Michael Caine's character was the orchestrator, but I am pretty much there on the 'none of it was real and it was Cobb trying to sort his head out' explanation.

Really good film.


I still have a huge problem with the "it's all a dream" group. Twice in the film we see dream sequences where a dream goes down multiple levels. In both cases, we see how unstable the dream world is as it goes downward. Even if Cobb is dreaming, I think it's established in the movie he'd still "know the rules" like Saito did. We are led to believe he's the "best" architect before he started going crazy.

So with that in mind, think about the amount of levels we have to go down if the entire thing was a dream and how ridiculously unstable the dream world would be. How many levels would we be talking here? At least 15? How ridiculously unstable would that be?

With the rules the movie gives us, I don't see how it's possible the entire thing could be a dream. (and if the movie doesn't play by the rules it gives us, I would really be dissapointed in the movie. To give us "fake" rules would be upsetting to me. Not that Nolan would care, but I would)

[cthomer5000]

Playing devil's advocate for the 'it's all a dream' interpretation:

"you never really remember the beginning of a dream do you? You always wind up right in the middle of what's going on. "

We never see any of this traveling. They are globetrotting and we don't really see a sniff of it. We need a 747, and an airline is mysteriously purchased. Michael Caine seems to be a professor in Paris... but he's waiting at the airport in L.A.... how and why?


Ariadne (Ellen Page)

Michael Caine protests for about two seconds before serving up someone he claims is even better than Cobb.

Cobb explains the work is illegal, she doesn't bat an eye.

Cobb himself says she catches on faster than anyone he's seen before in the dream (maybe she's done this before?)

She seems mighty quick (a single session) in surmising that Cobb has serious, deep psychological issues that are going to be very problematic for all involved.

She is constantly prodding him on his issues, even to the point of involving herself in the operation when she originally wasn't supposed to have been.

She comes up with resolutions Cobb himself can't think of near the end of the movie.

[cthomer5000]

I mean, Nolan obviously must be loving all the speculation. It's so meta-film... the film has planted ideas about the reality of the movie that we individually let grow into our interpretation of what actually happened.

I don't want to fall in with the 'it's all a dream' camp, but as of this moment i think they've got a very solid foundation for an argument. Ellen Page's character feels like an undercover.

[MJ4H]

The fact that I have spent 3 hours in a row talking to one other person about this movie and nothing else is unprecedented for me.

Well aside from stupid Star Wars trivia contests and crap.

[BishopMVP]

I knew there was a reason not to like you other than being a ND fan.I think what I recall being Memento's biggest flaw was actually similar to many people's problem with Inception's. Nolan lays out a complex framework and gives us a bunch of rules but doesn't explain the exceptions to those rules we see on screen. Both also rely heavily on the unreliable narrator and blurring the line between reality and illusion. The question is whether it's the narrator being deceived (usually brilliant, absolutely acceptable imo) or is the director deceiving the audience (cheap cop-out by a writer who couldn't figure an acceptable way out.) I saw Memento when I was like 15 - maybe I'm more willing to accept an ending that is open to interpretation than I was back then - I'll have to re-watch it.

For those who want to re-live the old argument - OT: "Identity," "Memento" and the Writer/Audience Covenant - Front Office Football Central (http://operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=8795&highlight=memento) . Sadly the first thread on Memento was lost in a board switch - I think Quiksand laid out a few logical flaws with trying to piece together the narrative - where it strayed beyond unreliable narrative into the realm where the director was intentionally deceiving the audience to prevent us from figuring out the ultimate reveal ahead of time. Now, when in Inception Nolan's purpose is to get people talking and arguing about what memory and reality is, that's fine and you can leave things open to interpretation. But when you try to present a definite picture of what really happened like I *recall* Memento doing, and you are inserting scenes or clues contrary to that, it's a flaw, however minor of one it is.

[Poli]

Ping: NoMyths.

[TroyF]

Playing devil's advocate for the 'it's all a dream' interpretation:

"you never really remember the beginning of a dream do you? You always wind up right in the middle of what's going on. "

We never see any of this traveling. They are globetrotting and we don't really see a sniff of it. We need a 747, and an airline is mysteriously purchased. Michael Caine seems to be a professor in Paris... but he's waiting at the airport in L.A.... how and why?


Ariadne (Ellen Page)

Michael Caine protests for about two seconds before serving up someone he claims is even better than Cobb.

Cobb explains the work is illegal, she doesn't bat an eye.

Cobb himself says she catches on faster than anyone he's seen before in the dream (maybe she's done this before?)

She seems mighty quick (a single session) in surmising that Cobb has serious, deep psychological issues that are going to be very problematic for all involved.

She is constantly prodding him on his issues, even to the point of involving herself in the operation when she originally wasn't supposed to have been.

She comes up with resolutions Cobb himself can't think of near the end of the movie.

I agree, I can come up with 20 more things that make the "dream" theory make sense. The problem I have again is with the rules presented to us in the movie. They repeatedly talk about how tough it is to go deeper than 2 levels. They show repeatedly what happens even at the second level. (the dream below always has problems)

They also show that the dreamer knows understands the "rules" of the dream world. (they make this clear with Saito early on, he knows it's a dream and is prepared to defend himself in it)

So I'm supposed to believe Cain (or someone else) is a "super dreamer" who can stabilize a dreamworld down over 10 levels (and probably closer to 25) in a situation where a supposed professional dream extractor (Cobb) believes that going down more than 2 levels is dangerous and that you need special drugs just to get to level 3?

And how do we explain the side trips Cobb takes while he's in this dream world. (like going to see Mal before Ellen joins him)

I'm not saying that it isn't a dream, but if it is I will simply be unable to ever fully grasp even the concept based off the the rules the movie gave. If that's the case, the move goes from one of my favorites to "meh" I hate sci fi that doesn't stay true to the rules it creates for itself.

[Poli]

FWIW, I'm not one to believe that there is this "narrative trust". I only skimmed that thread as of now as I'm about to head off to work, but it appears that the argument there.

The great thing I love about Memento is I still watch it. I still try to work out what I feel happened and what didn't. We're obviously seeing stuff from his mind and it is really messed up. What's reality and what isn't? That's what leads to discussion. I've probably watched the movie 6 times with other people. Every time I get a good discussion about what just happened. I've had a few turn around and watch it again.

I enjoyed Inception and I've kept out of the discussion for the most part. Like others, I'm trying to wrap my mind around what I just saw. I love the fact people are going to it twice to try and get more sense out of it. I'm planning on doing so myself.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

A bit meta for my tastes, but still an enjoyable read.

454 W 23rd St New York, NY 10011-2157 - In praise of ‘Inception’ (http://lazenby.tumblr.com/post/891007064/in-praise-of-inception)

[cthomer5000]

I have to ask if anyone has read my posts from a couple of weeks ago. Everyone is bringing up stuff I mentioned long ago.

Better lock the thread then. Stop posting guys.

[rowech]

Better lock the thread then. Stop posting guys.

I knew someone would take it wrong. All I meant is that people are throwing out "new" stuff in this thread that has already been mentioned but left uncommented on. I can't believe nobody commented on my observations about the chalkboard behind Caine.

[cthomer5000]

I knew someone would take it wrong. All I meant is that people are throwing out "new" stuff in this thread that has already been mentioned but left uncommented on. I can't believe nobody commented on my observations about the chalkboard behind Caine.

Maybe the thread doesn't have to be about you. We're having a discussion here. Some people are arriving at different points, or covering the same thing from slightly different angles or with different supporting evidence (i seem to have produced the most detailed run-down on the Ellen Page character, for example... even though her suspiciousness has been mentioned before).

And I think some of us are looking at the primary material first before we dive into what's on the chalkboard in one scene. It seems secondary to carving what's going on with the major events.

If other people pick up your thread and run with it, great. If not, don't take it personally.

[TroyF]

Why does it have to be a "meaning" movie? I don't think it was intended as that at all. I think it was just an action movie set in dreams because we all have bizarre ones at some point.

I think people are trying to read way too much into this movie. It's an action movie set in a crazy world with a guy trying to get past the death of his wife that he feels partially responsible for. That's it. Don't look into it anymore than that other than to figure out whether or not he's dreaming or whether or not he's "out".

1) These are your first two quotes about the movie. Both of which I find patently absurd.

2) You then see it a second time and give your hypothesis, it's mostly a dream. The entire first level is Saito/coming out of dream/airplane and essentially all the way to Leo waking up in the underground lair after being drugged out. Then that starts a new sequence of dreams.

I've stated and explained why I don't think that's the case.

3) I know a lot of people are putting things into Caine being in Paris vs. the States. I don't think it's necessarily all that unusual. Leo gives gifts to Caine to give to the kids. He knows his kids are in the states and Caine is in Paris. He obviously know Caine is going to fly back to the states.

Again, I think all of it is fluff designed to confuse (just like the kids clothes and other things)

[Noop]

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/9176/donaldinceptionfull.jpg


Pulling in $193.3 million in 17 days, the cinematic sorcery of Christopher Noland's "Inception" continues to scratch heads in movie theaters around the country. As audiences continue to deconstruct the multilayered entanglement of dreams in Cobb's subconscious and mull about whether or not the totem actually falls, a user on the online community Reddit has unearthed an Uncle $crooge McDuck comic book from 2002 that has an eerie resemblance to the plot of Nolan's visceral odyssey. It's the quackiest whackiest "Inception" theory you'll read today. Spoilers galore after the jump, along with evidence that Nolan may have adapted "Inception" from a Disney comic book.



As bloggers at Video Gum, I Watch Stuff, and Comicbookmovie.com point out, Nolan's cerebral dream puzzle has quite a few remarkable similarities to "Dream of a Lifetime", a comic book from Don Rosa's "Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck" series. Both employ the idea of shared dreaming via some high tech, sci-fi device. Both involve villians running rampant through a maze of dreams-inside-of-dreams. Browse the high-resolution pages of the comic book here.




Here's a take from Comicbookmovie.com


In the Scrooge McDuck story, "Dream of a Lifetime," the Beagle Boys -- a gang of canine criminals that historically try to steal from McDuck -- use a contraption to enter into Scrooge McDuck's dream while he's sleeping to try to "steal" the secret combination to McDuck's vault of goodies. McDuck's nephews, including Donald Duck, use the same contraption to enter McDuck's dream and thwart the Beagle Boys.

One such panel from Scrooge McDuck's "Dream of a Lifetime" is below.

http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/6955/xyhnj.jpg

According to Video Gum, Scoorge McDuck even carries a totem to help him navigate through dreams: a 25-pound bar of gold. Check out a panel by panel analysis and breakdown between major plot parallels in "Inception" and Scrooge McDuck here.
Back in early July, Nolan told the New York Times he was worried about cinemaphiles thinking the dream-based narrative of "Inception" rips heavily from Alain Resnais' classic French New Wave film L’Année dernière à Marienbad" ("Last Year at Marienbad"). He told the paper he didn't watch the Resnais's 1961 film until after completing "Inception."



I’m ripping off the movies that ripped off “Last Year at Marienbad,” without having seen the original. It’s that much a source of ideas, really, about the relationships between dream and memory and so forth, which is very much what “Inception” deals with. But we have way more explosions.



Perhaps Nolan's name-dropping of "Last Year at Marienbad" to the New York Times was an attempt to come across as across as a high brow auteur. If we learned anything from "Inception" about the embryo of an idea, we can postulate that Nolan may have planted a seed, so to say, to Dave Itzkoff of the New York Times in order to create a diversion from the movie's true plot origins (Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck).



Of course, the Internet is a clearinghouse for asinine theories and half-baked criticism about movies. However, Nolan's track record in the director's chair might warrant a little examination into whether or not the "Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck" lit the creative spark for "Inception." As a blog post at ComicBookMovie.com points out, all of Nolan's other films were conceived by other sources. "Memento" was born out of a short story called "Memento Mori," penned by his brother Johanthan Nolan. The Prestige was adapted from Christopher Priest's novel, The Prestige. Insomnia was a remake of Norwegian director Erik Skjoldbjærg's 1997 film, "Insomnia." Of course, the Batman movies were based on Batman comic books

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/272/ogvwn.jpg

http://beat-box.com/?url=http://www.brobible.com/story/13160258/did-christopher-nolan-rip-plot-inception-uncle-scrooge-mcduck-comic-book

[cthomer5000]

Im at the very least, amused by the notion that he ripped off Scrooge McDuck.

In reality, there aren't too many original ideas left. Everything that comes is some variant of something that has come before - even if he arrived at the story completely on his own.

And what's more likely, that he ripped off the 'falling to wake up' bit from scrooge mcduck... or from the real-life phenomenon of people endlessly waking up from falling dreams?

[DaddyTorgo]

Maybe the thread doesn't have to be about you. We're having a discussion here. Some people are arriving at different points, or covering the same thing from slightly different angles or with different supporting evidence (i seem to have produced the most detailed run-down on the Ellen Page character, for example... even though her suspiciousness has been mentioned before).

And I think some of us are looking at the primary material first before we dive into what's on the chalkboard in one scene. It seems secondary to carving what's going on with the major events.

If other people pick up your thread and run with it, great. If not, don't take it personally.

seems like somebody got your panties in a wad this morning

[AlexB]

I agree, I can come up with 20 more things that make the "dream" theory make sense. The problem I have again is with the rules presented to us in the movie. They repeatedly talk about how tough it is to go deeper than 2 levels. They show repeatedly what happens even at the second level. (the dream below always has problems)

They also show that the dreamer knows understands the "rules" of the dream world. (they make this clear with Saito early on, he knows it's a dream and is prepared to defend himself in it)

So I'm supposed to believe Cain (or someone else) is a "super dreamer" who can stabilize a dreamworld down over 10 levels (and probably closer to 25) in a situation where a supposed professional dream extractor (Cobb) believes that going down more than 2 levels is dangerous and that you need special drugs just to get to level 3?

And how do we explain the side trips Cobb takes while he's in this dream world. (like going to see Mal before Ellen joins him)

I'm not saying that it isn't a dream, but if it is I will simply be unable to ever fully grasp even the concept based off the the rules the movie gave. If that's the case, the move goes from one of my favorites to "meh" I hate sci fi that doesn't stay true to the rules it creates for itself.

I don't get where all these extra levels come from - there only needs to be one extra level. The 'reality' in the movie is Cobb's dream - from there on in everything is only one level below where it immediately appears to be. So at worst we're talking

'reality' - main dream, level 1
Cobbs testing of the compound, Ariadne's tutorials & the Mal elevator, Seito realising the rug was wrong, Fischer's Kidnap - all level 2
robbery of Seito & Mr Charles - level 3
Ice fortress - level 4
Limbo/Cobb & Mals world and Seito as an old man - level 5 (in this set-up, Cobb & Mal's world could have been as high as level 2 for them originally)

I take the point about the instability, but Cobb & Mals world was literally collapsing in the movie from the point he & Ariadne arrived, suggesting this instability, while when it was level 2 it was not collapsing.

Cobb & Mal were apparently experimenting with multi-layered dreams, so when they built their world at level 2 it's feasible they could have been using a heavier sedative, but two levels further below that even the super-strength sedative wasn't strong enough to hold it together.

Plus it's tough, for me at least, that if you take 'reality' as actually being level 1 instead, to have 100% faith in any of the rules. It's an easy get out I grant you ("it's all a dream, so any inconsistency can be explained by it being a dream and the rules of logic and physics don't necessarily always apply"), but I personally can't take 'reality' being real when an alleyway collapses in on someone!

If anyone can explain this one scene to me, which was apparently in what people are calling 'reality' (it was before he visited the chemist, so it's difficult for even those that think that was the departure from reality) I'd be more able to move away from the 'it's all a dream' view.

[MJ4H]

I don't think it was collapsing (moving), I think it was just a really narrow area between two walls/buildings.

[Chief Rum]

I don't think it was collapsing (moving), I think it was just a really narrow area between two walls/buildings.

:+1:

You can see in trhe movie before he enters the alleyway that it looks pretty tight.

[Chief Rum]

Im at the very least, amused by the notion that he ripped off Scrooge McDuck.

In reality, there aren't too many original ideas left. Everything that comes is some variant of something that has come before - even if he arrived at the story completely on his own.

And what's more likely, that he ripped off the 'falling to wake up' bit from scrooge mcduck... or from the real-life phenomenon of people endlessly waking up from falling dreams?

From what I read (so take it for what it's worth), Nolan's been working on this script for over a decade, which would predate Scrooge McDuck.

But, yeah, originality is tough to achieve now in this idea-saturated world of ours.

[AlexB]

:+1:

You can see in trhe movie before he enters the alleyway that it looks pretty tight.

I've only seen it the once, but it did not strike me like that. I cannot ever recall seeing an alleyway that starts wide and then narrows onto a main street either.

Something to look out for next time I see the film :)

[TroyF]

I don't get where all these extra levels come from - there only needs to be one extra level. The 'reality' in the movie is Cobb's dream - from there on in everything is only one level below where it immediately appears to be. So at worst we're talking

'reality' - main dream, level 1
Cobbs testing of the compound, Ariadne's tutorials & the Mal elevator, Seito realising the rug was wrong, Fischer's Kidnap - all level 2
robbery of Seito & Mr Charles - level 3
Ice fortress - level 4
Limbo/Cobb & Mals world and Seito as an old man - level 5 (in this set-up, Cobb & Mal's world could have been as high as level 2 for them originally)

I take the point about the instability, but Cobb & Mals world was literally collapsing in the movie from the point he & Ariadne arrived, suggesting this instability, while when it was level 2 it was not collapsing.

Cobb & Mal were apparently experimenting with multi-layered dreams, so when they built their world at level 2 it's feasible they could have been using a heavier sedative, but two levels further below that even the super-strength sedative wasn't strong enough to hold it together.

Plus it's tough, for me at least, that if you take 'reality' as actually being level 1 instead, to have 100% faith in any of the rules. It's an easy get out I grant you ("it's all a dream, so any inconsistency can be explained by it being a dream and the rules of logic and physics don't necessarily always apply"), but I personally can't take 'reality' being real when an alleyway collapses in on someone!

If anyone can explain this one scene to me, which was apparently in what people are calling 'reality' (it was before he visited the chemist, so it's difficult for even those that think that was the departure from reality) I'd be more able to move away from the 'it's all a dream' view.


In the dream worlds they created, the only one that had multiple levels inside and out was Cobb's elevator dreams. And even those were limited to one panel type of settings. (not full city scapes)

Your "level 2" encompasses over 10 different settings, some of which are full cities. (the tutorial with Adrianne, the kidnapping in scene one, etc.) It also involves multiple people showing up at different spots in each level, which doesn't happen anywhere else in the movie. With what you just said, Cobb's level one would include him in these different settings:

1) Apartment
2) Train and getting off
3) hotel room
4) helicoptor
5) Paris with Michael Caine
6) Training with Adrianne
7) The city running from the corporation
8) The testing of the compound
9) The elevator (which would have to be a dream within a dream, because he hooked up to go there)
10) the planning of the robbery at the villa outside
11) The airplane (where again, they all hooked up)
12) The kidnapping of Fisher


At no point in the movie do we see any indications that having that many enviornments in one level of a dream are possible. I also felt it was just a narrow gap between two buildings. Again, I think Nolan is intentionally putting a lot of this in here. I still fully believe the inception was intended to be on us. To take a straight forward movie and make us think it was a dream. The same thing Cobb did to Mal. (only we won't be killing ourselves over it.)

[Vince, Pt. II]

Saw this last night and thought it was amazing. I love a lot of the theories in here, though I'm with Troy in thinking that we have to take the period between the train and at least getting into the dream again to test the sedative as the "real world" or "top."

My curiosity comes from the scene where they're describing the time differences as you continue down in levels into the dream. They mentioned the further you go into the dream, each level becomes exponentially longer - hence the team having half an hour or so for the van on level 2 to fall completely off the bridge when it only took seconds to happen on its own level. I believe they mentioned (Ariadne specifically) that at the third step in (dream within a dream within a dream) they'd be under for 10 years...what happened to all the other time? And if I'm not misinterpreting, how did they possibly avoid all the projections for that amount of time?

I think that may fall under the "nitpicking" category, but with the rest of the movie so well constructed, I think I'm missing something.

[BishopMVP]

3) I know a lot of people are putting things into Caine being in Paris vs. the States. I don't think it's necessarily all that unusual. Leo gives gifts to Caine to give to the kids. He knows his kids are in the states and Caine is in Paris. He obviously know Caine is going to fly back to the states.I have to ask if anyone has read my responses to Rowech's posts from a couple of weeks ago. You're bringing up stuff I mentioned long ago.

[dawgfan]

I have to ask if anyone has read my responses to Rowech's posts from a couple of weeks ago. You're bringing up stuff I mentioned long ago.
Yeah, I don't really get why some people think Caine going from Paris to the U.S. is a problem - it took a while for Cobb to assemble and train his team, which is plenty of time for Caine to fly to the U.S. This is a non-issue to me.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Also, Cobb showed up with at least the premise of giving Caine gifts to give to the children, and told the children over the phone that he was giving them to Grandpa and that they'd see him soon. Complete non-issue.

[dawgfan]

3. Somehow grandfather is back in US..
"Somehow"? Really? Does it not appear as though many days pass in between Cobb meeting up with his father in law in Paris and then performing the inception on Fischer? How difficult is it for Miles to board a plane for the U.S.?

Again, I'm just not understanding how this is perceived as any kind of issue...

[Swaggs]

"Somehow"? Really? Does it not appear as though many days pass in between Cobb meeting up with his father in law in Paris and then performing the inception on Fischer? How difficult is it for Miles to board a plane for the U.S.?

Again, I'm just not understanding how this is perceived as any kind of issue...

Same here. I think it is pretty clearly implied that there are several weeks, if not months, of preparation involved in recruiting and training. It would be odd film-making to randomly insert a scene that clearly shows Miles traveling to the airport, getting on a plane, and then getting off the plane in the U.S.

With all of the other interpretable scenes within this movie, I don't see this is an issue.

[chadritt]

It appears that way because that's what Nolan wanted. All of those things happen one right after another with him simply being there. A rule that was mentioned in the movie points this out...you never see yourself arrive somewhere...you are simply there. Until we see Cobb arrive in LA at the end showing he is in reality again.

Didnt he give his father the toys for the kids before he even met Ariadne? after that he at least needed to train her which surely took longer than a flight to LA wouldve taken his dad.

[dawgfan]

It appears that way because that's what Nolan wanted. All of those things happen one right after another with him simply being there. A rule that was mentioned in the movie points this out...you never see yourself arrive somewhere...you are simply there. Until we see Cobb arrive in LA at the end showing he is in reality again.
Movies rarely show much in the way of travel if it's not critical to the story. At most, they'll show a quick shot of a plane landing (or a boat approaching, or a train, bus or car arriving, etc.)

If one is arguing for reality over dream, then there's no reason Miles couldn't go from Paris to the U.S. given the sequences we see in between. It's only if you already assume that it's all a dream that you begin to think that all those sequences were happening in a short span of time, and even in that case, how does Miles going from Paris to the U.S. prove anything?

My point here is that him traveling to the U.S. is not in the slightest bit implausible unless you know for certain that many of the events before they start the inception on Fischer are also a dream.

[TroyF]

I have to ask if anyone has read my responses to Rowech's posts from a couple of weeks ago. You're bringing up stuff I mentioned long ago.

I remember someone brought it up, i just didn't feel like going back and finding out who.

I know the movie points out that you just "arrive" in a dream rowech.

But you have a 2 and a half hour movie. Seeing EVERYONE arrive/depart on planes would be like a trip to the dentist for a root canal. We really only see one instant in a movie where there is an "arrival" from a main character. The ending when the plane lands and everyone gets off.

We don't see anyone arrive at the airport to board the plane. (we see them start to walk through the plane) Pick an important scene in most movies and tell me how the character got there. You can't. No director is going to go "well, gee, lets show a minor character in the movie hop on a plane to LA and then we'll cut to the cool action sequence after that"

Caine was in Europe, he wasn't on Mars. Cobb gave him something to give to the kids. It doesn't matter if he did this in a dream world or in the real world, he knew his kids were in the States and that Caine was in Paris. He knows in the helicopter he can't go to the States to go home to his kids (how Saito got him to do the job) and he knows he's going to Paris when he's off to see Caine (he says let's go to Paris for another architect) Either way, he knows and he gives Caine the gifts. So the assumption is it's a trip Caine makes frequently.


I can't for the life of me figure out how that scene proves a thing.

[jeff061]

But you have a 2 and a half hour movie. Seeing EVERYONE arrive/depart on planes would be like a trip to the dentist for a root canal. We really only see one instant in a movie where there is an "arrival" from a main character. The ending when the plane lands and everyone gets off.

I already said that. Why are you ignoring me?




FYI, that was a joke(except for the I said it part ;)).

[BishopMVP]

I remember someone brought it up, i just didn't feel like going back and finding out who.I was just being a dick and mocking Rowech's tone in his post. People already had responded to the Caine "issue", but somehow he avoided reading those. Should've added the smiley :)Ping: NoMyths.True - when is the FOBL crew of NoMyths, Quiksand, etc going to appear in this thread? (As for his specific point that there is no writer/audience agreement, I agree on the level that the artist is free to do as they please and create for themselves. I just agree with Quiksand's point more that once you start establishing rules, you're obligated to follow them or risk being called on it by the audience. Take another Nolan movie I love The Prestige - it claims to be a movie about magicians without magic, and then brings in a deus ex machina of Tesla's cloning device. IMO, that was still fine because it had been alluded to before and I could accept it as part of the universe. Memento threw me off where it treated flashbacks as fact and then threw one in late that apparently was a reverie or a faulty memory.)

[Poli]

I didn't see it as one flashback thrown in late. The shot of him sitting in the ward instead of Sammy, the shot of Lenny and his wife with the new tattoo, another giving his wife insulin...and then again, maybe it was just pinching.

We walk into Lenny's world and feel bad for him at first. Then we realize we have no clue what really has happened. Get inside Lenny's head and you get what you deserve. ;)

Back on topic: Hoping to see the movie again this weekend.

[TroyF]

bishop,

I either didn't read or don't remember the momento thread, but I agree with QS in a big way on that one. I don't care what the movie is, sci fi, adventure, action, drama. . . when you set up rules, you cannot break those rules without a very good explanation for doing it. It's the biggest problem I have with the "it's all a dream" line of thought.

I actually LIKE the idea that Caine set it up to find out what happened to his daughter. That would be a cool premise. There are a lot of things that don't fit and some rules that I think would be broke to come to that conclusion.

[AlexB]

In the dream worlds they created, the only one that had multiple levels inside and out was Cobb's elevator dreams. And even those were limited to one panel type of settings. (not full city scapes)

Your "level 2" encompasses over 10 different settings, some of which are full cities. (the tutorial with Adrianne, the kidnapping in scene one, etc.) It also involves multiple people showing up at different spots in each level, which doesn't happen anywhere else in the movie. With what you just said, Cobb's level one would include him in these different settings:

1) Apartment
2) Train and getting off
3) hotel room
4) helicoptor
5) Paris with Michael Caine
6) Training with Adrianne
7) The city running from the corporation
8) The testing of the compound
9) The elevator (which would have to be a dream within a dream, because he hooked up to go there)
10) the planning of the robbery at the villa outside
11) The airplane (where again, they all hooked up)
12) The kidnapping of Fisher


At no point in the movie do we see any indications that having that many enviornments in one level of a dream are possible. I also felt it was just a narrow gap between two buildings. Again, I think Nolan is intentionally putting a lot of this in here. I still fully believe the inception was intended to be on us. To take a straight forward movie and make us think it was a dream. The same thing Cobb did to Mal. (only we won't be killing ourselves over it.)

The issue I had was that according to the rules going to level 3 was inherently unstable - my take on that was that the levels referred to the number of dreams within a dream. 1-8 and 10-11 are all linear dreams, and therefore all level 1/2 depending on your viewpoint. According to the rules, this would be fine.

I think some of this is interpretation of levels - the film only stated that going deeper (i.e. dreams within a dream) was inherently unstable.

At no point did they say that multiple scenes/landscapes/settings within the same level was dangerous/impossible, and in fact they allude to the fact that this is actually pretty simple given a skilled architect (e.g. Ariadnes 1st shared dream), as Cobb would have been.

I don't know for sure what the level of dream/reaility is, and tbh there's evidence both ways, but the argument you are using for the number of levels needed and the ensuing effect on stability is flawed.

And it still doesn't affect whether the top level was real or not regardless!

As said before - the mark of a good film that it can inspire positive debate

[TroyF]

If it's so possible to create multiple levels in the same dream, why would you ever take the chance of going unstable and dropping levels? I know you are going to say to essentially have someone "forget" the first level, but they don't forget the first level, especially if they are trained. We do know how unstable the entire Fischer sequence is. Add a couple of levels to that? With the rules the movie gives us, it would be disastrous IMHO.

I love the debate and I love the theories. For me, I just can't grasp the full on dream concept. I've said it before, that doesn't mean I'm right. Maybe it means my brain is small. But I've tried like hell to understand it and I can't.

[AlexB]

If it's so possible to create multiple levels in the same dream, why would you ever take the chance of going unstable and dropping levels?

This is where we have different definitions - to me it's different settings within the same level until it becomes 'a dream within a dream' (i.e. when someone 'falls asleep' in their dream). I understood it that it only gets unstable when it's 'dream within a dream', which is the change in level that they are worried about. This is my base from where I get that there are only 4 levels in the film if you take the majority as reality, or 5 levels if you take it that either it's all a dream, or it's all a dream from the chemist on.

I know you are going to say to essentially have someone "forget" the first level, but they don't forget the first level, especially if they are trained.
Sort of - the reason for going for dream(s) within a dream is not to make the people forget the first level, but more to convince them that because they've woken up from level 2 dream, level 1 dream is in fact reality, which makes them more vulnerable for the extraction. The opening Seito scene shows this - if the architect had got the carpet fibres right, Seito would not have known that the apartment was also a dream - he was initially convinced the apartment was reality beacuse he had woken up from the heist dream.

We do know how unstable the entire Fischer sequence is. Add a couple of levels to that? With the rules the movie gives us, it would be disastrous IMHO.
I agree completely with the instability fear, and the film definitely sets this fear up. But the film also suggested to me that the added strength compound & sedative enables the crew to go deeper than before, an adventure into the unknown, with an element of danger that they may not get back (Cobb's revelations to the crew after they're all in the kidnap level). Which is why for me the drop beyond the ice fortress had so much tension - it was even more extreme and unstable (collapsing at the edges as soon as they arrived)

(Again for me) this was another element to the tension of the movie - not only did it have an excellent thought-provoking premise, and good action scenes, but it also had suspense from the 'will they be able to get back?' questions from going deeper than ever before.

I love the debate and I love the theories. For me, I just can't grasp the full on dream concept. I've said it before, that doesn't mean I'm right. Maybe it means my brain is small. But I've tried like hell to understand it and I can't.

Been a while since I've seen a movie that does provoke this type of thought & debate. I'm convinced I know the score one level below the top level within the film, whether that top level is real or dream. There are only clues as to whether the top level is real or not though, and in all hoesty I can only say it's my belief that it's all dream, but can't offer enough evidence to prove it or convince others, and I don't believe there's enough evidence to disprove it or convince me otherwise!

Like you and others have said - really well made film that leaves a huge part of the film to be open enough for multiple interpretations, but so well thought out by Nolan that it in no way leaves me feeling cheated because of it.

[TroyF]

No doubt, there is plenty of ammo on both sides. There would be one other thing that would bug me about the "it's all a dream" thing though.

Why would the kids age and have their clothes be altered if it were Cobb's projection? Because he "thinks" it's real and so his brain now changes the projection? And why does his ring keep coming on and off and only appears off in what we are led to believe is reality? Is it because Cobb "thinks" that's reality and he changes his projection again? Keep in mind, even an insane Cobb is a master of the dreamworld, and would be able to spot even the mildest flaw in this type of setup.

OK, so that's about twenty things. And you could EASILY come up with 20 things indication it's a dream. We both have no explanations for certain aspects of our theories. I can't explain the hotel room with Mal jumping from the other side of the street or how a phone call wipes out a murder charge just for two obvious examples.

I also don't feel cheated a bit. I can see myself going through the damned Blu-Ray frame by frame in some levels to look for things. I'll have a blast with that.

[Sgran]

1. Why does Saito want to kill the architect (or allow Cobb to do it)?
2. Why are hired para-military goons trying to kill Cobb?
3. Why did Saito go down a level from the ice fortress? IIRC, he never hooks up with Ariadne, Cobb and Fisher. Furthermore, why does he age so and Cobb doesn't? Is it actually someone else (e.g. an old Cobb)?
4. How does Mal get control of Fisher? Mal is a projection by Cobb, so they go to Cobb's dream (his house in the world he made with Mal inside the building), where Mal has Fisher. Huh? How does Cobb know this in advance? why don't they just go to Ariadne's dream with Fisher?

In any case, I saw it a second time yesterday, and I have to say that the overriding structure of the first level -- warts and all -- has to be accepted as reality. Or, as Nolan would probably smirk to us, as a movie. I retain my belief that the snow palace part was boring and should have been heavily edited, particularly Eames' James Bond stuff.

I'm giving up on getting a firm grip on where reality exists in this movie. It becomes number 5 after:
1. 8 1/2
2. Last Year at Marienbad
3. Barton Fink
4. Lost Highway

The first 3 are among my favorites of all time. The fourth is a heaping pile. Inception is closer to the first three, but sorely needed a stronger-willed editor.

[Fidatelo]

I saw the movie on Saturday and loved it, but here's a part I'm hoping someone can explain to me:

My understanding of the 'kicks' and how you can 'ride them up' from one level to the next is that you time them so the lowest level is kicked first by whomever stayed back one level, then the person who stayed back a level before that kicks those guys, etc. If you don't get kicked in the lowest level you've been to, a kick at a higher level won't wake you up. But if you're at your personal lowest level, when you get a kick from higher up, you should wake up, right? That's my understanding anyways.

So, given the above, I don't understand how Arthur is able to stay in the hotel level after the first 'missed kick' from the van falling in the level above him. It seemed to me they established that when the van went into freefall, that was supposed to be the kick. Unfortunately it came too fast and they weren't prepared at the lower levels so they missed it, so they had to wait for a second kick (the van hitting the water).

But Arthur was never any deeper, so that first kick of the van going over the edge should have woken him up, right? Which means he's not around anymore to shuffle the sleepers in his level into the elevators and such. Shouldn't everyone else have been stranded?

[Maple Leafs]

Finally saw this on Friday. Didn't really live up to expectations, but that was probably inevitable given how much I like Nolan and how much hype there was. Still, a solid movie that I enjoyed.

I want to weigh in on the whole "dream/no dream"... I feel like it completely misses the point. This isn't a puzzle that we're supposed to figure out. We'll never know whether the ending was a dream or not because we can't know. That's Nolan's whole point -- he wants us to question whether we can ever really separate dreams from reality. "Solving" the puzzle would go against what he's trying to say.

Look at Memento. That movie had two puzzles: What the hell was going on (i.e. what order did everything happen in)?; and Can we really trust Lenny's memories (i.e. what's up with that last shot of the "I did it" tattoo)? The first is easy enough to "solve", but you're not supposed to solve the second one. Nolan wants to tell us that our memories aren't trustworthy. Spelling out which ones are right and which are wrong would spoil that point.

It's pretty obvious that Nolan wants us to be confused about what's a dream and what isn't, especially at the end. Even the idea that "you never see people arrive anywhere", which some people are dismissing, is pretty clearly intentional. It would take five seconds to show Cobb pulling up to one airport in a cab. Instead, Nolan makes a point of telling us that not knowing how you go there is a tipoff to a dream, then never shows us how anyone gets anywhere. He puts the kids in almost (but not quite) the same clothes. He's clearly trying to make sure we can't figure it out, because we're not supposed to.

Bottom line: I don't think there is a right answer, and arguing over it feels like we're missing the point.

(As far as the whole movie being a dream, count me as one of those who'd be terribly disappointed if that was the intention. The whole "dreams vs. reality" theme loses its impact if there isn't some of both in the film. If the whole thing is a dream, then none of the rules we're given matter. Sure, maybe Cobb is dreaming the whole thing because he misses his wife. Or maybe his wife is asleep next to him in their rundown apartment. Or maybe he's an old woman who ate some bad pizza the night before. If there's no reality at all, who cares?)

[Sgran]

I saw the movie on Saturday and loved it, but here's a part I'm hoping someone can explain to me:

My understanding of the 'kicks' and how you can 'ride them up' from one level to the next is that you time them so the lowest level is kicked first by whomever stayed back one level, then the person who stayed back a level before that kicks those guys, etc. If you don't get kicked in the lowest level you've been to, a kick at a higher level won't wake you up. But if you're at your personal lowest level, when you get a kick from higher up, you should wake up, right? That's my understanding anyways.

So, given the above, I don't understand how Arthur is able to stay in the hotel level after the first 'missed kick' from the van falling in the level above him. It seemed to me they established that when the van went into freefall, that was supposed to be the kick. Unfortunately it came too fast and they weren't prepared at the lower levels so they missed it, so they had to wait for a second kick (the van hitting the water).

But Arthur was never any deeper, so that first kick of the van going over the edge should have woken him up, right? Which means he's not around anymore to shuffle the sleepers in his level into the elevators and such. Shouldn't everyone else have been stranded?

the falling happens in the dream. the bath happens to the sleeper

[Fidatelo]

the falling happens in the dream. the bath happens to the sleeper

Assuming I understand what you are getting at (though I'm not sure I do), then this would mean that they didn't ever 'miss' the 'first kick', meaning there is a bunch of dialog in that scene that doesn't make any sense.

[AlexB]

That was one jump in the plot that I missed any prior reference to: the fact that if they missed the first kick there was another round the corner. Up to then I thought that if they didn't get the timing right then, they were screwed, but it seemed like a little rewrite later and there was a 2nd chance!

[Fidatelo]

That was one jump in the plot that I missed any prior reference to: the fact that if they missed the first kick there was another round the corner. Up to then I thought that if they didn't get the timing right then, they were screwed, but it seemed like a little rewrite later and there was a 2nd chance!

Based on the rules as I understand them, the only way it should be able to work is if Arthur (Gordon-Levitt) woke up back to the first level but then put himself back under to go kick them again. Only he'd never have time for that because once he woke up to the van level it would be mere seconds for the van to hit the water.

[Sun Tzu]

Saw this last night with the Wifey. Awesome flick, loved the Hans Zimmer score (as always), loved the flow of the film.

Two big thumbs up. This will be a Blu-Ray buy when it hits shelves.

[BishopMVP]

If you prefer all the logical inconsistencies people brought up in dickish, pseudo-script form - Inception: The Abridged Script | The Editing Room (http://www.the-editing-room.com/inception.html) (One of my favorite writers on the internet, even though it does hit a little too close to home on certain movies I enjoyed.)

[QuikSand]

Saw it today. Still thinking a bit. I am not that great at picking up tiny details (e.g. didn't even notice the stuff with the wedding ring).

Am sad that we lost that original Memento thread, though, as a lot of that was on point with this flick too (not surprisingly).

[ISiddiqui]

Just saw it tonight. Was absolutely amazing! Loved it when they kept going down layers and layers and trying to keep everything straight was part of the awesomeness of Inception. Leo was incredible. Gordon-Levitt was great. Page played very well. Just incredible stuff.

Now let me read this thread a bit ... :D

[ISiddiqui]

If there's no reality at all, who cares?

I actually think this is part of the point. For the "there is no meaning here" crowd, I'd strongly disagree and say that Nolan was deliberately addressing the long standing philosophical problem of do we actually exist or are we just a figment of someone's imagination. And in the end, with Leo deciding to abandon watching if the top fell and playing with his kids, Nolan's answer is, basically, as long as you are happy, who cares?

At least that's how I see it.

[Groundhog]

If you prefer all the logical inconsistencies people brought up in dickish, pseudo-script form - Inception: The Abridged Script | The Editing Room (http://www.the-editing-room.com/inception.html) (One of my favorite writers on the internet, even though it does hit a little too close to home on certain movies I enjoyed.)

Now that was hilarious. :D

Still love the movie, but there were some classics in that, in particular:

<DIR>EXT. SNOW FORTRESS
Everyone finds themselves in GOLDENEYE.
</DIR>And:

KEN WATANABE
If you are successful, I will immediately make a phone call that will allow you back into the United States so that you can see your children. Please ignore the fact that there’s no way to know if the plan was a success until months later.
LEONARDO DICAPRIO
Great! This will be much easier than just moving my kids to France!

[Desnudo]

I guess it speaks to how good the movie was that I didn't even think to wonder why he didn't just fly his kids to France

[cartman]

Not bad for a few months of work:

Movies - News - DiCaprio to make $50 million from 'Inception' - Digital Spy (http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/news/a266090/dicaprio-to-make-usd50-million-from-inception.html)

[ISiddiqui]

I guess it speaks to how good the movie was that I didn't even think to wonder why he didn't just fly his kids to France

I think part of that is because the grandmother wouldn't allow it to happen, and she's the guardian.

[Grammaticus]

I guess it speaks to how good the movie was that I didn't even think to wonder why he didn't just fly his kids to France

I just passively assumed there was a legal reason he could not move them, Since he was wanted for murder.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I think part of that is because the grandmother wouldn't allow it to happen, and she's the guardian.

I was sort of under that impression too.

[QuikSand]

I don't think I have too much original speculation here, but here are my thoughts:

-as for the top at the end, I think it keeps spinning... I think the most coherent "ending" is that Cobb chose his own limbo where he'd be with his kids and find his own catharsis there, thus the oversimplified return to the idealized resolution-of-everything scene, and Ariadne's comment "he'll be fine" rather than "he's going to make it" or something similar

-I do think that the final point is *really* supposed to be "does it matter?" and they set up a pretty solid argument that it doesn't

-While I guess the speculation about "is everything a dream?" is inevitable, I have yet to find any argument that suggests this is actually necessary to make the story workable... it's novel and intriguing, but in the end I think it's just pretty empty conjecture. I don't find anything tangible in the story that requires that convoluted an explanation - the story was deliberately hard to follow, but if you understand who was doing what and the order of events, it really doesn't seem to require an outside-the-box explanation.

[DanGarion]

Inception in Real Time!
<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/MHBlYJ-tKcs?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MHBlYJ-tKcs?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

[Poli]

Looking forward to the DVD.

[MJ4H]

BARRRM BARRRRRMMMMMMMM
BARRRM BARRRRRMMMMMMMM
BARRRM BARRRRRMMMMMMMM
BARRRM BARRRRRMMMMMMMM

[Sun Tzu]

I listen to the soundtrack at least twice a week when working. It's absolutely fantastic, and I'm stoked about the Blu-Ray release.

[BishopMVP]

BARRRM BARRRRRMMMMMMMM
BARRRM BARRRRRMMMMMMMM
BARRRM BARRRRRMMMMMMMM
BARRRM BARRRRRMMMMMMMMINCEPTION (http://inception.davepedu.com/)

[MJ4H]

I listen to the soundtrack at least twice a week when working. It's absolutely fantastic, and I'm stoked about the Blu-Ray release.

I arranged the last half of Dream is Collapsing for my high school band to play in the stands after defensive stops.
:devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:

[MizzouRah]

The wife and I finally watched this one tonight.. very good.

[SteveMax58]

Dude....I am sooooo late to the party on this one but probably one of the top 3 movies I've seen in a while. I've been reading this thread and obsessively reading different thoughts on this movie and will post some thoughts later.

Actually...my AVR was being repaired and I didnt get to watch it with my full sound system so going to pick it up today & will hopefully get a chance to hook it up & watch again.

[Cuckoo]

Agreed, one of my favs as well, and I'm shocked that it's not performing better in the awards season. I finally saw the Social Network last night and enjoyed it, but in my mind, Inception is head and shoulders above it.

[Marmel]

I am so late in seeing this movie, but I loved it. I remembered this thread and read through it. Watching on DVR, I was able to rewind the final scene and the top clearly wobbles, beyond a shadow of a doubt, which it never does in the dream, so for me this shows that the end is reality. It is a great movie and I do like all the alternate theories. Can't believe it took me so long to finally see it.

[fantom1979]

The movie made me sad, I don't like movies that make me sad.