Family Party Issue, Advice Wanted!

[DanGarion]

Ok, so I got one I need some advice on guys.

My wife and I are having a family, friends, and neighbors 4th of July Party. We are trying to make this an annual event at our house (2nd year in our house, 2nd year doing the party). We sent invitations to all those that we wanted to come, our family, friends, and close neighbors. On Sunday I got an email from my wife's uncle asking if his son was invited. I responded telling her uncle that my wife hasn't forgiven his son for what he said about her dad (my father in law) several years back before I even knew my wife. And that because it is our party that I would respectfully ask that he not be invited to our house. Her uncle responded back and explained issues with his son, etc, but also said he understands and would not invite the son.

Yesterday my wife got an email from her cousin, apologizing for whatever he said and asking for her to forgive him. She ignored the email. Today I got a call from my mother in law talking about the issue, and she agrees that it's our choice that we have chosen not to invite him, but she wanted to give me a heads up that he said he was coming regardless, because "Since she invited my family, and I am a member of that family, I will be attending. She is not in a position to invite a family and then pick and choose which members of said family can attend or not attend."

So now I have to figure out how to clean this mess up so we can still enjoy ourselves at our party.

--Background--

The cousin in question is @ 40 years old. He had a number struggles throughout his life with addiction and alcoholism. He's sober and trying to make amends with his family. About 6 year ago while he was still drinking he said some terrible things about my wife's father. Things that considering all the help my father in law provided throughout the years (consigning for a car when his own family disowned him, and a lot more) were completely uncalled for. He also made another comment after my father in law passed away.

So what the heck am I supposed to do. I have his phone number and his email address, should I call him? I don't want to get into a confrontation on the phone or in person, but my wife has made it clear that she doesn't want him at our house. He showed up last year even though we didn't invite him, and it really upset my wife.

My wife is a very stubborn woman, but there are some things you never say, and talking badly about someones parent is one of those things that depending on the circumstances I agree can be unforgivable. So help me out with some advice guys. Thanks.

[Danny]

Wife > Cousin, call him, explain your wishes and tell him you're glad he's doing better.

[DanGarion]

Wife > Cousin, call him, explain your wishes and tell him you're glad he's doing better.

Oh yeah it's Wife > All in my life. But calling him will be uncomfortable, since I really don't know him.

[MrBug708]

I agree with the wife > cousin, but it seems like he is trying to apologize for what he did and wants to kind of be part of the family, maybe your wife should hear him out? Though it is kind of like an asshat move to just show up when you aren't invited.

Tough call either way

[DanGarion]

I agree with the wife > cousin, but it seems like he is trying to apologize for what he did and wants to kind of be part of the family, maybe your wife should hear him out? Though it is kind of like an asshat move to just show up when you aren't invited.

Tough call either way

I tried to convince her to hear him out, she's not ready to/doesn't want to. That was my first approach when her uncle asked me about him being invited.

[Passacaglia]

Pass the message along from your mother-in-law to your wife, then tell your mother-in-law to grow a pair and pass the messages along to her daughter herself. If your wife is the one with the beef, she can decide how far she wants to take it.

[Karlifornia]

It's sad that your wife would hold a grudge that tightly, but, hey...you can't force her to feel differently. Tell the cousin "Sorry, bro, you better not show (up)"

[Passacaglia]

I tried to convince her to hear him out, she's not ready to/doesn't want to. That was my first approach when her uncle asked me about him being invited.

Based on the way he's acting in your OP, it actually sounds like she's heard (or is going to hear) enough out of him. IMO of course.

[DanGarion]

It's sad that your wife would hold a grudge that tightly, but, hey...you can't force her to feel differently. Tell the cousin "Sorry, bro, you better not show (up)"

Honestly I don't fault her, if one of my own cousins said untruthful things about my dad, I'd probably react the same way. You don't fuck with my dad. Hell don't fuck with either of my parents.

[DaddyTorgo]

That's rough. If the guy had issues with demons and now is sober and trying to make amends it'd be great if your wife would forgive him. Since you can't FORCE her to the best thing to do is either call him yourself and tell him that you understand, that you appreciate his apology and that you hope that your wife will forgive him one day but that if he shows up you'll call the cops (I guess?).

[DanGarion]

That's rough. If the guy had issues with demons and now is sober and trying to make amends it'd be great if your wife would forgive him. Since you can't FORCE her to the best thing to do is either call him yourself and tell him that you understand, that you appreciate his apology and that you hope that your wife will forgive him one day but that if he shows up you'll call the cops (I guess?).

How many times do you let someone make amends and forgive them?

[DaddyTorgo]

How many times do you let someone make amends and forgive them?

Well if the guy was an addict then I'd certainly be more inclined to forgive him if he was now sober and trying to clean up his life. The way I look at it, if you don't forgive someone in that situation (and note I'm speaking generally and not about this specific situation or your wife) you are just removing an incentive for them to continue to stay clean and straighten up and giving them a reason to turn right back to the addiction.

It also depends on what happened. "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me" and all that. So this guy said some horrible things...frankly so what? Who among us hasn't? When I was like 10 I called my mother a bitch. If he'd burned down a house, or totaled a new car or something like that, then okay. But words? Really?

Every situation is an individual one though. I'm just speaking in generalities.

Oh, and I'm not sure why "force" was capitalized in my original post, the one that you quoted above. It really shouldn't have been.

[johnnyshaka]

Call him yourself and explain the situation. If he wants to make amends with your wife explain to him that your party is not the time or place for that.

[Karlifornia]

He's definitely still not quite right in the head if he's trying to force his entry to a party where he's clearly not wanted.

[Nogram]

Is she a Christian?

For the record, I'm not, so I am all about grudges, etc.

However, if she is Christian you could easily play that card and BAM, problem solved.

Nogram

[DanGarion]

Is she a Christian?

For the record, I'm not, so I am all about grudges, etc.

However, if she is Christian you could easily play that card and BAM, problem solved.

Nogram

Non practicing Catholic... But we tend to think out our problems ourselves, we don't give Jesus the wheel.

[Nogram]

Could try good old Catholic guilt.

"Wouldn't your Dad want you to forgive him, think of all the times he gave him a second chance. I know words hurt, but you know, just like your dad would have, that he didn't mean them. When he said them he wasn't in a good place, he knows that now. I think your Dad would want us to give him a chance to make things right."

BAM!

[Travis]

Let your wife know what you've heard and suggest that she talk with him (email/phone/in person) prior to the event and then decide if you upgrade him to invitee or if you keep him off the guest list.

Personally I'm not a big fan of the way he's handling things (firing off an apology email and informing other family members that he's entitled to attend sits wrong with me), but excluding her from information or any part of the process could just end up backfiring on you. That said, if she flat out ignores him it'll likely just encourage him to follow through on the threat of showing up.

[AlexB]

Call him yourself and explain the situation. If he wants to make amends with your wife explain to him that your party is not the time or place for that.

Agreed - if he wants to get back in with the family, not going to the party is the next step to doing that.

Try & explain to him that it's not as big a step as the cousin wants to take, but there's obviously a lot of water that passed under the bridge, and if he turns up he will likely further ostracise himself instead

[RainMaker]

It's your wife's call. I don't believe in forgiveness for everything. If someone crosses the line too far on an issue, I truly believe in cutting them out of the life forever no matter how much they change.

I know it sucks, but you just have to be a dick. He isn't invited. If he shows up, he isn't welcome in the home. End of story. If the family can't deal with that, they can leave too.

The thing you have to look at is that they are trying to force her into forgiving him. That's real shitty if you ask me. It should be on her terms and if she never does, so be it.

[Oilers9911]

Your party, your rules (the two of you). If she doesn't want him there that's then end of it. Call him up and tactfully explain that he isn't wanted.

[thesloppy]

Cancel the whole thing, with extreme drama, spite and flair, and be very vocal about the cousin being the entire reason. "As much as we relish the idea of holding cousin's July 4th attention grab and carnival of dysfunction, faced with his ultimatum of all or nothing, as much as we love and cherish you all, we'd rather spend eternity alone than risk one second with that scab"

[JediKooter]

I'm actually kind of in agreement with Karlfornia on this one. It's been 6 years AND he had a substance abuse problems when he said those things, so he really wasn't working with a clear mind when he said what he said. If the dude is sober now AND he apologized, I'm not sure what the problem is in having him come over. But, I also understand not wanting to have that kind of tension when you are just wanting to have a good time with family and friends.

However, if he's still an ass even in his sobriety, then no, don't invite him.

[DanGarion]

Could try good old Catholic guilt.

"Wouldn't your Dad want you to forgive him, think of all the times he gave him a second chance. I know words hurt, but you know, just like your dad would have, that he didn't mean them. When he said them he wasn't in a good place, he knows that now. I think your Dad would want us to give him a chance to make things right."

BAM!

Hah, I think that one would back fire on me. :)

[DanGarion]

Let your wife know what you've heard and suggest that she talk with him (email/phone/in person) prior to the event and then decide if you upgrade him to invitee or if you keep him off the guest list.

Personally I'm not a big fan of the way he's handling things (firing off an apology email and informing other family members that he's entitled to attend sits wrong with me), but excluding her from information or any part of the process could just end up backfiring on you. That said, if she flat out ignores him it'll likely just encourage him to follow through on the threat of showing up.

Oh I have been including her on every step.

[DanGarion]

My wife and I have left it at, we didn't invite him and we have asked her brothers (3) that if he shows up he's not invited and to escort him away. Their thoughts are the same as ours. They have their own issues with him as well.

[Greyroofoo]

Your wife needs to loosen up. Picking and choosing family members is kind of bitchy.

[JediKooter]

Non practicing Catholic... But we tend to think out our problems ourselves, we don't give Jesus the wheel.

Trying...to...resist...making...a...joke...

[MacroGuru]

Boils down to this...addict or not, he still has his steps to go through and if she has yet to forgive him that's her choice and he has to deal with the consequences.

Trust me, I come from a long line of not only alcoholics but drug addicts to. I am still waiting for my father to apologize to me, I do go near him and talk to him, but right now we don't see eye to eye due to a lot of the shit he said and did to me and my family over the years.

I would take it to the step and call him and inform him, he still isn't wanted her you truly would appreciate it if he understood and kept away. If he feels the need to continue to be an asshat, that's when his brothers step in and inform him of such.

[DanGarion]

Trying...to...resist...making...a...joke...

Me too. :)

[RainMaker]

Your wife needs to loosen up. Picking and choosing family members is kind of bitchy.
Why does she need to loosen up? He obviously said something that bothered her a great deal and is deemed unforgiveable. If someone made horrible comments about my Mother, I would never invite them to a party regardless of how much they apologize.

[DanGarion]

Your wife needs to loosen up. Picking and choosing family members is kind of bitchy.

He picked and choose his family members when he treated them like shit... IMO.

[JediKooter]

Me too. :)

You're not making this easy. :D

[DanGarion]

You're not making this easy. :D

I said we tend to think out our own problems, and here I am asking for advice... I'd rather take random internet people's advice than pray about it and look for guidance that way. But that's just the way I tend to roll...

[JediKooter]

I said we tend to think out our own problems, and here I am asking for advice... I'd rather take random internet people's advice than pray about it and look for guidance that way. But that's just the way I tend to roll...

I hear you on that. I see it as kind of a confirmation type thing when asking for advice here, plus all the 'unique' advice is entertainment on its own.

However, my joke is referring to the letting Jesus take the wheel part. ;)

[DanGarion]

I hear you on that. I see it as kind of a confirmation type thing when asking for advice here, plus all the 'unique' advice is entertainment on its own.

However, my joke is referring to the letting Jesus take the wheel part. ;)

Well Jesus doesn't have a license, I'm afraid he'd crash us into the wall... :D

[JediKooter]

Well Jesus doesn't have a license, I'm afraid he'd crash us into the wall... :D

You're getting warmer...but, the reason for the crash would not be because of not having a license.

[Nogram]

You could tell him the party is on the 3rd, and it is at a bar, and then invite all his former dealers there, see just how 'reformed' he really is. Chances are he is back on the crack, the family hates him again, and BAM problem solved.

However, you could be partly responsible for ruining his life and he could be dead in a year. But, since you don't worry about what the church thinks, no problemo.

Also, if he dies and you have some serious guilt over it, and since you are Catholic you likely will, it could bring you to re-engage your faith, which would bring you back to the chruch, and that would be a good thing. Therefore the Catholic thing to do would be to fuck this guy over and get him back on the crack.

OR, he doesn't go for the crack, and then you know he is really reformed, and you can invite him to your party and he can cut the cake!

[DanGarion]

You're getting warmer...but, the reason for the crash would not be because of not having a license.

Oh god... Doh.

[DaddyTorgo]

Why does she need to loosen up? He obviously said something that bothered her a great deal and is deemed unforgiveable. If someone made horrible comments about my Mother, I would never invite them to a party regardless of how much they apologize.


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[cartman]

If her brothers wuss out, make sure you have Pumpy on speed dial. He'll take care of that shit real fast.

[ColtCrazy]

The ball is kind of in his court. If he is truly trying to make ammends, then I think he needs to skip out on the party and try to contact your wife another time (phone, letter, whatever) and talk about how he's getting his life back on track. A Fourth of July party is not the time to do that.

If you can, I'd contact him with that. It's a party at your house so your wife has every right to say no to him coming. Him forcing himself into the party may be a sign that he really hasn't grown up at all.

[Passacaglia]

You guys must be known for some really great parties.

[Ben E Lou]

Why on earth are *you* talking to *her* cousin and *her* mother about this???

This is your wife's family, not yours. She should be dealing with them directly. You said it yourself: you don't even know the guy. You are being set up to be the ass in her family. She should be the ass in her family. You should be the ass in your family.

[DanGarion]

Why on earth are *you* talking to *her* cousin and *her* mother about this???

Well first off when I married her, they became my family. But anyway, I didn't talk to her cousin. I don't know why my mother in law called me, but all she wanted to do was give me a heads up that he said he was coming like it or not.

[DanGarion]

You guys must be known for some really great parties.

Hell yeah, I'm smoking up 3 pork shoulders.

[Ben E Lou]

Well first off when I married her, they became my family.I realize that many people think this way, but they're wrong. ;) Everyone is better off in the long run if the blood relative deals with stuff like this. Just my $0.02. *shurg*

[Passacaglia]

Well first off when I married her, they became my family. But anyway, I didn't talk to her cousin. I don't know why my mother in law called me, but all she wanted to do was give me a heads up that he said he was coming like it or not.

She called you because she was too chicken to tell her own daughter, or to do anything about it herself, and was hoping you would be the one to do the dirty work.

[Mustang]

Being upset for 6 years? Damn, what the hell did he say?

The only thing I can think of that I'd be pissed for that long at someone is if they had accusations of a family member being a pedophile.

[DanGarion]

She called you because she was too chicken to tell her own daughter, or to do anything about it herself, and was hoping you would be the one to do the dirty work.

Probably so.

[DanGarion]

Being upset for 6 years? Damn, what the hell did he say?

The only thing I can think of that I'd be pissed for that long at someone is if they had accusations of a family member being a pedophile.

Well it was more than something he said, there is a lot of history of issues with him. From kicking my wife's dog, to other actions, and things he has said.

[Bad-example]

Thinking outside the box here, but I bet it would be pretty affordable to get an off-duty police officer to attend your party. If the asshole shows up uninvited, have the cop zap him and throw him out.

[boberot]

Forgiveness for him might never come, but somebody [not you, Dan] should tell him that:

The first step is to get clean. Check.
The second step is to apologize.
The third step is not "crash party against the specific wishes of the person with whom I am trying to reconcile."

[flere-imsaho]

Call him yourself and explain the situation. If he wants to make amends with your wife explain to him that your party is not the time or place for that.

He's definitely still not quite right in the head if he's trying to force his entry to a party where he's clearly not wanted.

:+1: to both, and...

I realize that many people think this way, but they're wrong. ;) Everyone is better off in the long run if the blood relative deals with stuff like this. Just my $0.02. *shurg*

OMG YES. I don't care how long someone's been married or how loved they are by their in-laws, there's at least another 20 years of history there you (the general you) don't have.


Anyway, speaking of solutions, how much would it actually cost to hire a couple of bouncers from a reputable security firm? Give them pictures of the dude. Tell them they have one job. If dude shows up, they tell him he's not invited and should leave. If he doesn't, they call the cops.


Although I do like thesloppy's CANCEL-WITH-MAXIMUM-DRAMA solution. :D The additional advantage is that if you're seen to be an over-reacting drama queen by her family, they're a lot less likely to bother you with this petty bullshit in the future. :D Seriously, though, this entire situation is predicated around people knowing that other people will tend to do anything to avoid a conflict situation.


Cousin knows you don't want to ruin your party by making a scene, so he'll come anyway, safe in this knowledge, and be a creepy emo bastard (I've seen it happen), telling you all night how he's changed.
M-I-L knows she'll have a blowup argument with her daughter if she talks to her, so talks to you instead, making the blowup argument (if it happens) your problem.
Similarly, uncle knows he'll have a blowup argument with his niece if he emails her, so emails you instead, making the blowup argument (or at least nagging worry) your problem.


And so on and so forth. You know, now that I think about it, I think you should go with the CANCEL-WITH-EXTREME-DRAMA option. Anyone who's actually sane will completely understand and they'll be the ones who attend next year.

[TroyF]

My take:

1) Your wife has every right to refuse to forgive him. She has every right not to invite him to the party or ever speak with him again.

2) If he does "crash" the party, he's out of line. Any family member that helps is also out of line.

That said:

3) You said this was a "family" party and you want to make this a yearly thing. If the cousin makes it back into the good graces of everyone but your wife, you won't be having a yearly party. The family will want all of it's members there. (you can already see this happening right now, you can imagine what it would be like next year if he's still sober and doing well)

[Danny]

Well first off when I married her, they became my family. But anyway, I didn't talk to her cousin. I don't know why my mother in law called me, but all she wanted to do was give me a heads up that he said he was coming like it or not.

If this is true, then sober or not, the guy still sounds like an asshat.

[sabotai]

From kicking my wife's dog

Damn. If anyone in my family kicked my dog, they'd be out of my life for good. That's some inexcusable shit.

And from your first post, he said something about her father right after he had died? It almost doesn't even matter what he said, to say something about someone who had just died within hearing distance of family members is just insane.

People using alcohol as an excuse for why they act like an asshole are generally assholes to begin with. I don't blame your wife for never forgiving him. I sure wouldn't.

[DanGarion]

I wanted to thank you all for your advice, I appreciate it all.