Is John Kerry changing parties?

[EagleFan]

Political shipwreck - BostonHerald.com (http://bostonherald.com/news/politics/view/20100725political_shipwreck_boat_builders_john_kerry_could_have_created_jobs_in_us/)


This would probably get a mention from Obama if it was a Republican doing it...

[Greyroofoo]

Well to be fair,

John Kerry was for buying an American made boat before he was against it.

[jeff061]

John Kerry is a train wreck.

[tarcone]

The more I think about this, the more it really disturbs me. Is he really that out of touch that he blows off his own voters and goes acroos the ocean to get a boat built?
And the man lives in a state that lives off the ocean. Hello? Anyone home?

[Marc Vaughan]

What a crock imho - its his money and should be up to him how he spends it imho, would anyone on this board like someone to come into their house and critique what they spent their money upon?

(heck isn't this meant to be America land of capitalism? - in which case by capitalist virtues he SHOULD purchase items where he gets best value ... thats what capitalism indicates)

Its about time politicians (worldwide) were judged on their political policies and actions rather than innuendo and what they might or might not have done in their personal life.

[stevew]

Hopefully this boat is swift.

[Shkspr]

Are American shipbuilders really so incompetent that they can't compete on price or feature list with a New Zealand company?

[Marc Vaughan]

PS - If that $7m would be enough to support an entire town for six months (as is implied) thats one heck of a small town imho.

Average American income = approx 30k
Six months wages = 15k

Number of people supported by $7m = 465 approx.

Now back home we don't call people with 465 people in them towns, we call them there places villages or hamlets ..... ;)

[tarcone]

What a crock imho - its his money and should be up to him how he spends it imho, would anyone on this board like someone to come into their house and critique what they spent their money upon?

(heck isn't this meant to be America land of capitalism? - in which case by capitalist virtues he SHOULD purchase items where he gets best value ... thats what capitalism indicates)

Its about time politicians (worldwide) were judged on their political policies and actions rather than innuendo and what they might or might not have done in their personal life.

You are correct. It is his money. But with his standing in the community he should be buying American, imho. Plus, if he can afford a $7 million yacht, I imagine another million or 2 to buy American wouldnt be that big a deal.

It seems to me this would be like the governor of Wisconsin, buying cheese made in California.

[GrantDawg]

What a crock imho - its his money and should be up to him how he spends it imho, would anyone on this board like someone to come into their house and critique what they spent their money upon?

(heck isn't this meant to be America land of capitalism? - in which case by capitalist virtues he SHOULD purchase items where he gets best value ... thats what capitalism indicates)

Its about time politicians (worldwide) were judged on their political policies and actions rather than innuendo and what they might or might not have done in their personal life.


Seriously? This isn't about his groceries. This is about a $7 million dollar boat. A purchase that would have employed a whole town in his home state for a year and a half or more according to the article. It shows a very big disconnect between him and his home. He is saying his home state, the people who elected him and pays his salary, aren't good enough for his own money. That is political death. It would be like a Georgia governor buying $2 million dollars worth of Brazilian peanuts while his home farmers starve. You have evey right to do it. And the voters have every right to kick you to the curb.

[stevew]

I'd probably think this one is more Teresa's fault. For starters, Kerry might be rich, but the only way he even affords a 7m dollar yacht is because of John Heinz.

[GrantDawg]

PS - If that $7m would be enough to support an entire town for six months (as is implied) thats one heck of a small town imho.

Average American income = approx 30k
Six months wages = 15k

Number of people supported by $7m = 465 approx.

Now back home we don't call people with 465 people in them towns, we call them there places villages or hamlets ..... ;)


It is not the literal dollar for dollar. That would have kept say, one factory open for two years. Their money would have went into the local economy (stores, restraunts, etc), and then that same money would have went through the economy again. So, it is not dollar for dollar. That is a substantial amount of money to circulate through a small town.

[EagleFan]

What a crock imho - its his money and should be up to him how he spends it imho, would anyone on this board like someone to come into their house and critique what they spent their money upon?

(heck isn't this meant to be America land of capitalism? - in which case by capitalist virtues he SHOULD purchase items where he gets best value ... thats what capitalism indicates)

Its about time politicians (worldwide) were judged on their political policies and actions rather than innuendo and what they might or might not have done in their personal life.

You're right. Who the hell should care about keeping money in the country and keeping Americans working. It's not like he's a politician who should be serviing hs people and doing what is best for them. It's not like we're in a time where jobs are being lost and the economy is in bad shape and is in need ot people buying American.

I am sick and tired of seeing jobs taken out of this country and we need to stand up and make the politicians accountable for allowing it to happen by giving companies incentives to do so. We also need to hold them accountable for their actions when they are counter to what is good for this country.

[JPhillips]

It is not the literal dollar for dollar. That would have kept say, one factory open for two years. Their money would have went into the local economy (stores, restraunts, etc), and then that same money would have went through the economy again. So, it is not dollar for dollar. That is a substantial amount of money to circulate through a small town.

I think your dollar amounts are way off. It's not like that money only goes to suppliers in town or that the owner doesn't keep some profit that gets invested out of town. I'm sure it would have been nice for a local company, but no town is staying alive on the back of a single yacht purchase.

Are we now going to demand every politician only buy from their constituents? It's going to really suck to be a rep in a rural district. And I'm not sure any of them can have a computer.

[Marc Vaughan]

You're right. Who the hell should care about keeping money in the country and keeping Americans working. It's not like he's a politician who should be serviing hs people and doing what is best for them. It's not like we're in a time where jobs are being lost and the economy is in bad shape and is in need ot people buying American.
So you never buy a non-American item at all then? - your car is American and all of your appliances?

(sorry but unless you live it yourself I always kinda think its somewhat hypocritical to criticise others - I buy goods which are the best value for the money I've earnt ... are you seriously saying that others shouldn't be allowed to?)

I am sick and tired of seeing jobs taken out of this country and we need to stand up and make the politicians accountable for allowing it to happen by giving companies incentives to do so. We also need to hold them accountable for their actions when they are counter to what is good for this country.
So you think that inflicting artificial trade embargoes (ie. only buying American etc.) would fix this situation? - I take it then you agree with the anti-freetrade actions which China has taken in the past to protect its economy then? (ie. artificial protection of its exchange rate and making it hard to import into that country).

After all thats no different to what you're proposing ? .... just wondering ....

[Marc Vaughan]

It is not the literal dollar for dollar. That would have kept say, one factory open for two years. Their money would have went into the local economy (stores, restraunts, etc), and then that same money would have went through the economy again. So, it is not dollar for dollar. That is a substantial amount of money to circulate through a small town.

Actually if you look at it that way then its even LESS than it would be as a direct payment to individuals.

The profit from a $7m boat would probably result in a far less investment in the local economy, most likely even in an American boat builder many of the components etc. would be produced aboard, plus the wages going to the builders themselves would be a small fraction of the actual cost of the boat etc.

[JPhillips]

Actually if you look at it that way then its even LESS than it would be as a direct payment to individuals.

The profit from a $7m boat would probably result in a far less investment in the local economy, most likely even in an American boat builder many of the components etc. would be produced aboard, plus the wages going to the builders themselves would be a small fraction of the actual cost of the boat etc.

And out of those wages a bunch of that money goes out of town. You can argue for a multiplier on money spent in the town, but not on all seven million.

[stevew]

Are American shipbuilders really so incompetent that they can't compete on price or feature list with a New Zealand company?

It's pretty much this simple. I'm going to go ahead and assume a 7M dollar purchase is probably well thought out. He has no obligation as to where he spends his wife's money, however I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and he found that American offerings were inferior.

The docking in another state to avoid taxes is much more questionable than where the boat was built.

[stevew]

dola-

Do Michigan Politicians buy Mercedes Benz's?

[JPhillips]

Can you buy a Toyota if it's made in the U.S.?

[Marc Vaughan]

Can you buy a Toyota if it's made in the U.S.?

I think you're only allowed to buy something if its made by someone within a 3 mile radius of your house using their own hands or tools created by direct relatives ;)

PS - I'll break it to my wife that we'll be walking a lot more in the near future ;)

[molson]

The docking in another state to avoid taxes is much more questionable than where the boat was built.

Ya, that's what I thought this was going to be about. I didn't realize "buy local" was a liberal, or John Kerry, rallying point. Taxes on the other hand.....

[JonInMiddleGA]

I applaud the sense of fiscal responsibility Kerry appears to have shown here. Only a damned fool would simply spend more than is necessary.& we've got plenty of damned fools in D.C. already.

[Neon_Chaos]

You're right. Who the hell should care about keeping money in the country and keeping Americans working. It's not like he's a politician who should be serviing hs people and doing what is best for them. It's not like we're in a time where jobs are being lost and the economy is in bad shape and is in need ot people buying American.

I am sick and tired of seeing jobs taken out of this country and we need to stand up and make the politicians accountable for allowing it to happen by giving companies incentives to do so. We also need to hold them accountable for their actions when they are counter to what is good for this country.

Hey, it's not our fault us 3rd-worlders are willing to work for ten cents to the dollar. :)

[tarcone]

Ya, that's what I thought this was going to be about. I didn't realize "buy local" was a liberal, or John Kerry, rallying point. Taxes on the other hand.....

And how many tax dollars are lost on the purchase? That hurts the local, county, state.

I understand the whole "Its his money....". But his states economy is based on ships and boats and fishing, etc. Why go out and buy foreign?

[Shkspr]

And how many tax dollars are lost on the purchase? That hurts the local, county, state.

I understand the whole "Its his money....". But his states economy is based on ships and boats and fishing, etc. Why go out and buy foreign?

Because apparently American companies are less concerned with providing superior quality, cost, and service than they are with relying on the braying of jackasses to shame us into buying shoddy inferior product?

(Hey, being Jon is fun!) :D

[molson]

And how many tax dollars are lost on the purchase? That hurts the local, county, state.

I understand the whole "Its his money....". But his states economy is based on ships and boats and fishing, etc. Why go out and buy foreign?

Because it's cheaper? If he hasn't lectured people, during campaigns or otherwise, about how they should "buy local", then I don't see how anyone can have a problem with him saving some cash. There's a lot of pros and cons to that argument anyway, whether buying local is really the best thing for anyone, if all you're doing is artificially contributing to a failing market.

I don't really have a problem with the tax dodging either, except that he now can't really argue with a straight face that MA taxes aren't too high....He's making a pretty good argument, through his actions, how higher taxes can hurt public revenue.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Because it's cheaper? If he hasn't lectured people, during campaigns or otherwise, about how they should "buy local", then I don't see how anyone can have a problem with him saving some cash. There's a lot of pros and cons to that argument anyway, whether buying local is really the best thing for anyone, if all you're doing is artificially contributing to a failing market.

I don't really have a problem with the tax dodging either, except that he now can't really argue with a straight face that MA taxes aren't too high....

This.

[larrymcg421]

Love the random Obama dig. Does he have a history of criticizing individual purchases made by Republicans?

[molson]

Actually, Massachusetts ranks 23rd when it comes to tax burden, under such socialist hellholes such as Nebraska, North Carolina, and Utah.

The Tax Foundation - State and Local Tax Burdens: All States, One Year, 1977-2008 (http://taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/336.html)

Obviously, Kerry thinks they're too high (at least the taxes that target rich people).

But what's your point? You think the states with the lowest taxes are evil, right?

[molson]

It's called giving reference. I'm sure you believe MA's taxes are too high, I'm simply giving information then compared to the rest of the US, it's state and local taxes are damn right near in the middle.

You think everyone's taxes are too low, so I'm just wondering your angle here.

I have no idea what MA's taxes are, except for they're way too high for John Kerry to keep his yacht there.

It's just funny to see a liberal, who generally think that the rich need to be taxed more, run and hide to avoid the tax, and then be defended by liberals.

[Dutch]

Prophetic?


He would have been better off with the yacht. But he probably would have chose a foreign-made one.
Posted by: Sean Hackbarth (http://www.americandigest.org/mt/mt-comments.cgi?__mode=red;id=10249) at July 25, 2004 5:43 PM


Doesn't Everyone in Detroit Drive A Rolls? @ AMERICAN DIGEST (http://americandigest.org/mt-archives/obsessed_confused/doesnt_everyone.php#003173)

http://www.americandigest.org/mt-archives/article2706.jpg

[Izulde]

FWIW, what -really- ticked me off was the answer his state director gave that didn't answer the damned question at all. If he had said NZ has some sort of competitive advantage in boat building over Americans that made the purchase better, then yeah okay, fine, I can see it, although he'd better be ready for some significant political backlash that may or may not prove career-damaging.

But to completely duck the question and provide no rationale for why he chose NZ over America is just stupid to me. Yeah I know it wasn't Kerry himself who said it, but he should have either said something himself or controlled his staff better if that's not the response he wanted to get out.

[larrymcg421]

Yeah, I'm not sure where this idea that liberals love sales taxes is coming from. It's conservatives that would love to have an overall sales tax to replace the income tax.

[Dutch]

Yeah, I'm not sure where this idea that liberals love sales taxes is coming from.

Way to show up the party late. John Kerry already let the cat out of the bag.

[Dutch]

hehe, you've been equating Glenn Beck to all conservatives for years now, so what else is new?

[larrymcg421]

I'd also suggest that assuming all liberals love Kerry is a serious mistake. I was a big Deaniac and thus never liked Kerry at all. I argued pretty strongly against him in 04, knew that the "he'll win because he was a veteran" was idiotic. He's done nothing since to change my mind. Hell, his idiocy probably cost the Dems some seats in 2006, where he made comments that made it sound like he was calling troops idiots. So go ahead and bash him.

[Dutch]

I've no doubt that the liberals jumped off his bandwagon the second they realized they didn't have to hold their noses for him any longer.

In other news, just 15 minutes apart you paint your picture with a broad stroke and then warn what a serious mistake it would be to paint pictures with broad strokes. :)

I'd also suggest that assuming all liberals love Kerry is a serious mistake.


Yeah, I'm not sure where this idea that liberals love sales taxes is coming from. It's conservatives that would love to have an overall sales tax to replace the income tax.

[tarcone]

ALL U.S. Boat makers make terrible products? If thats true, this country is a lot worse shape then I had thought.

And im not braying like a jackass. Public perception is infinitely more important to a politician then a couple mil.

[terpkristin]

I consider myself fairly "in the know" about sailboat makers, given that I've helped my dad go through the the process of buying 2 sailboats (neither as high end or as large as the one Kerry bought--our latest is 37 feet long) and follow sailing in general, and I'll be damned if I can think of an American sailboat company I'd like to buy a boat from.

One particular quote that just confounds me (emphasis mine): "Steve Capozzola, media director for the Alliance for American Manufacturing, was surprised at Kerry’s move. House Democrats are pushing legislation to boost American manufacturing jobs.

“It’s ironic that he’d be buying a foreign-made boat when the House Democrats are considering a number of measures to revitalize American manufacturing,” he said."

Um. This type of thing isn't something most people buy. It's not a commodity-item as it were that everybody is rushing out to get. Hell, more people buy motor (no sail) boats than do sailboats. I really can't believe that one purchase (even at 7 million dollars) is going to revitalize American shipbuilding or any of the rest of the manufacturing market.

But all said, I think it's pretty squirrelly of him to keep it in Rhode Island, knowing his state can probably use the tax revenue. Never having sailed up there, I can't speak for how easy it is to access Nantucket (where it's said he sails) from Rhode Island as opposed to any of the Massachusetts ports, but still seems kind of evasive.

/tk

[Noop]

http://i27.tinypic.com/4h2ged.jpg

Enjoying this one.

[terpkristin]

Dola,
I also find it kind of disgusting (but sadly unsurprising) that the official owner of the boat is the LLC which I'm guessing was formed to be a tax dodge/shelter.

More on the boat, Friendship has been around for quite awhile and makes great boats. Apparently the interior was designed by a Rhode Island boat designer, for which I'm sure he was paid a pretty penny.

/tk

[larrymcg421]

I've no doubt that the liberals jumped off his bandwagon the second they realized they didn't have to hold their noses for him any longer.

In other news, just 15 minutes apart you paint your picture with a broad stroke and then warn what a serious mistake it would be to paint pictures with broad strokes. :)

I wasn't talking about making generalizations. I was suggesting that the generalization was faulty. A national sales tax is a conservative idea, not a liberal one. John Kerry got the nomination on the strength of moderates, not liberals. Paint all the strokes you want. You were just using the wrong color.

[Abe Sargent]

Why should his dollar care more about making Americans work than New Zealanders?

[Saul Goode]

I don't understand the big deal. This is a capitalist society. It's a lot of money, but just wait for the good ol' boy tax cuts to expire. Can't wait for their 360 on fiscal responsibility.

[Izulde]

I don't understand the big deal. This is a capitalist society. It's a lot of money, but just wait for the good ol' boy tax cuts to expire. Can't wait for their 360 on fiscal responsibility.

Why? Then they'd be right back where they started. :D

[DaddyTorgo]

Are American shipbuilders really so incompetent that they can't compete on price or feature list with a New Zealand company?

yes

[Noop]

I once was told that people use to think American made products were top of the line. Then something happened that rendered American made products as inferior to their foreign counterparts. Besides entertainment I can not think of something that America makes that completely shits all over the other countries.

Ipod maybe?

[Galaxy]

I once was told that people use to think American made products were top of the line. Then something happened that rendered American made products as inferior to their foreign counterparts. Besides entertainment I can not think of something that America makes that completely shits all over the other countries.

Ipod maybe?

Ipods aren't American made. American developed, but not American made.

[ISiddiqui]

People who are piling on Kerry are funny. People tend to like capitalism until someone in another country can make a better product cheaper than you can. Basically, good job Kerry.

[Dutch]

People who are piling on Kerry are funny. People tend to like capitalism until someone in another country can make a better product cheaper than you can. Basically, good job Kerry.

Okay, okay, all joking aside. Nobody is saying John Kerry needs to buy from Massachussetts shipbuilders or park his yacht in Massachussetts to pay state taxes and fees. What people are saying is that it might have been a good idea if you want their votes. Not everybody has an official Senate web-site that shows that the #2 concern among his voters is AMERICAN JOBS. On the bright side, John Kerry just recently fought to extend unemployment benefits, so it's not like his people are left out in the cold. John Kerry did acknowledge that America will have to find another state to pony up those funds though since all his shipbuilders are out of work.

[RainMaker]

We have officially run out of problems.

[Neon_Chaos]

Ipod maybe?

Ipods are assembled in China.

[BishopMVP]

I probably hate John Kerry more than anyone else on this board, and think the tax dodge is the type of ethical problem that will hopefully get him voted out of office, but the Herald is a hack paper with a full-time staff of about 8 people and their lead is an absolute non-story. The most interesting part is seeing people's weirdly uninformed perceptions of Massachusetts.I understand the whole "Its his money....". But his states economy is based on ships and boats and fishing, etc.How much Melville and Junger are you reading that leads you to think that's what our economy is based off of? It's telling that the two quotes in the article are from a company in Maine (not part of Massachusetts since about 1820 and the Missouri Compromise) and a person from Connecticut sailing his boat in Boston instead of his own boring state. Make sure Kerry's clothes are made locally too, since the other half of our economy is unwed immigrant girls working in the mills. :crazy:

[JPhillips]

And here I thought MA was all about cranberries and monuments.

[Noop]

So America pretty much makes nothing of quality, like someone said earlier good job John.

[Apathetic Lurker]

So America pretty much makes nothing of quality, like someone said earlier good job John.



Especially politicians. America definitely does not make politicians of quality

[DaddyTorgo]

Okay, okay, all joking aside. Nobody is saying John Kerry needs to buy from Massachussetts shipbuilders or park his yacht in Massachussetts to pay state taxes and fees. What people are saying is that it might have been a good idea if you want their votes. Not everybody has an official Senate web-site that shows that the #2 concern among his voters is AMERICAN JOBS. On the bright side, John Kerry just recently fought to extend unemployment benefits, so it's not like his people are left out in the cold. John Kerry did acknowledge that America will have to find another state to pony up those funds though since all his shipbuilders are out of work.

Kerry's not in any danger of not winning his next bid for reelection, regardless of where he buys his yacht. Everybody here knows that he married into a shitpile of cash and can basically spend whatever he wants on whatever, and nobody holds that against him. So trying to make it seem like its an issue is silly.

[flere-imsaho]

Are American shipbuilders really so incompetent that they can't compete on price or feature list with a New Zealand company?

Basically, for a certain type of boat (especially a luxury yacht like this), shipbuilders in NZ are generally considered some of the finest in the world. Shipbuilders in New England still make good to excellent boats (depending on the builder), but NZ builders are just better. A lot better. It's also not necessarily a price or feature list kind of thing. Just a better product overall.

Because it's cheaper?

For clarification, I'm not sure the boat was cheaper built in NZ. In fact, it was probably more expensive.

But all said, I think it's pretty squirrelly of him to keep it in Rhode Island, knowing his state can probably use the tax revenue. Never having sailed up there, I can't speak for how easy it is to access Nantucket (where it's said he sails) from Rhode Island as opposed to any of the Massachusetts ports, but still seems kind of evasive.

It's about the same. Nantucket is directly south from Cape Cod, and southeast of most RI ports.


As for the "employ half a town" thing, in general, it's kind of true. Many high-end shipbuilders in Maine, at least (where I grew up) are based in small towns and, when they're at capacity, employ a significant portion of the town. Since cost-of-living is generally low, and many of these positions are still unskilled or semi-skilled (or apprentice level), wages aren't super-high. So a single $7 million contract could provide a lot of security for a town like this for a year or so.

IMO, he's free to spend his money how he likes, and NZ shipbuilders make excellent yachts, but if I were in his shoes, I'd use a local builder in New England.

[molson]

So America pretty much makes nothing of quality, like someone said earlier good job John.

We're getting by on the entertainment industry, the service industry, and by printing vast amounts of currency. (And to a lesser degree, hoping that people with disposable income choose to buy inferior, more expensive American products and services out of patriotism).

Perhaps a questionable long-term plan.

[DaddyTorgo]

Point of clarification - it's not really HIS money though in this case I have a feeling. More likely it's his wife's family money.

So if you're that upset about it - I encourage you to stop using Heinz Ketchup.

[Dutch]

So trying to make it seem like its an issue is silly.

Nobody's making it an issue. We are making fun of the stupid Democrat and his apologists. There is a distinct (yet apparently subtle) difference.

[JediKooter]

Who the hell is John Kerry?

[Passacaglia]

hell yeah he's changing parties -- from a lame-ass one in some guy's house to one on a 7 million dollar boat!

[Marc Vaughan]

So America pretty much makes nothing of quality, like someone said earlier good job John.

I'd argue that my Chrysler Aspen is a darn fine automobile .... plus its the only one which fits my 6'5'' frame ;)

America also grows some damn fine meat, I've eaten more steak since emigrating than I probably did in the entire 35 years I spent outside of the country :D

(who's next?)

[Toddzilla]

Hopefully this boat is swift.Here's your Thread Winnar!

[Dutch]

hell yeah he's changing parties -- from a lame-ass one in some guy's house to one on a 7 million dollar boat!

Fuck land!

[JediKooter]

At first I thought the thread title said: "Is John Kerry changing panties?"

I have to agree with Apathetic Lurker, there is a serious lack of quality politicians in this country.

[Neon_Chaos]

Fuck land!

Poseidon, look at meeee!

[DaddyTorgo]

Nobody's making it an issue. We are making fun of the stupid Democrat and his apologists. There is a distinct (yet apparently subtle) difference.

Did I say that somebody here was? My comment was more directed towards the writer of the original article.

[cuervo72]

At first I thought the thread title said: "Is John Kerry changing panties?"


See, my thought was "Is Katy Perry changing panties?"

[JediKooter]

See, my thought was "Is Katy Perry changing panties?"

Which would put a much nicer thought in my head than if it was John Kerry. :)

[JonInMiddleGA]

See, my thought was "Is Katy Perry changing panties?"

That'd most likely be a trick question.

[stevew]

Katy Perry obviously doesn't wear panties.

[JPhillips]

Did I say that somebody here was? My comment was more directed towards the writer of the original article.

I'll give Dutch, but clearly a couple of people here are trying to make it an issue.

[molson]

Gotta give Kerry props for this:

Sen. Kerry to pay $500K tax on yacht - Local News Updates - MetroDesk - The Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2010/07/sen_kerry_to_pa.html)

Senator John Kerry said today he will voluntarily cut a check to the state of Massachusetts for some $500,000 in sales tax for a yacht he purchased in Rhode Island earlier this year.

"We’ve reached out to the Massachusetts Department of Revenue and made clear that, whether owed or not, we intend to pay the equivalent taxes as if the boat’s home-port were currently in Massachusetts," Kerry said in a statement released this afternoon. "That payment is being made promptly."

Kerry has been dogged by questions in recent days by questions about whether he purposely tried to evade taxes in his home state by listing the $7 million yacht's home berth as Newport, R.I. when he actually intended to use the boat at his summer home on Nantucket. His yacht purchase was first reported in the Boston Herald.

[DaddyTorgo]

Gotta give Kerry props for this:

Sen. Kerry to pay $500K tax on yacht - Local News Updates - MetroDesk - The Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2010/07/sen_kerry_to_pa.html)

Senator John Kerry said today he will voluntarily cut a check to the state of Massachusetts for some $500,000 in sales tax for a yacht he purchased in Rhode Island earlier this year.

"We’ve reached out to the Massachusetts Department of Revenue and made clear that, whether owed or not, we intend to pay the equivalent taxes as if the boat’s home-port were currently in Massachusetts," Kerry said in a statement released this afternoon. "That payment is being made promptly."

Kerry has been dogged by questions in recent days by questions about whether he purposely tried to evade taxes in his home state by listing the $7 million yacht's home berth as Newport, R.I. when he actually intended to use the boat at his summer home on Nantucket. His yacht purchase was first reported in the Boston Herald.

Props to the Senator.

[JediKooter]

Kinda funny though that republicans are bitching about him not paying a tax when they are the ones that are so anti-tax. You'd think they'd be saying, "Atta boy!". Oh wait, it gives them a chance to play politics and not really do anything, never mind.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Gotta give Kerry props for this:

For what, proving he's willing to throw away money for political p.r.? Not sure that's really praiseworthy.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Kinda funny though that republicans are bitching about him not paying a tax when they are the ones that are so anti-tax. You'd think they'd be saying, "Atta boy!". Oh wait, it gives them a chance to play politics and not really do anything, never mind.

Obviously you skipped my comments yesterday. I considered this one of the few intelligent things I'd ever associated with Kerry, not sure how much more praise I could heap on his original decision.

And yet I'm supposed to be one of the more partisan people here, go figure.

[molson]

For what, proving he's willing to throw away money for political p.r.? Not sure that's really praiseworthy.

I think rich liberals who have such big professed beliefs in the government doing good things with tax money should be writing voluntary checks to the state and federal treasury all the time. That makes their opinion a little more genuine, IMO. As opposed to liberals who are largely in favor of higher taxes, as long as someone else is paying them (preferably generic, evil rich people)

The latter is similar to a conservative who lectures that people need to take on a bigger individual role in helping people, but then don't actually help anyone themselves.

[JediKooter]

Obviously you skipped my comments yesterday. I considered this one of the few intelligent things I'd ever associated with Kerry, not sure how much more praise I could heap on his original decision.

And yet I'm supposed to be one of the more partisan people here, go figure.

No, I did not see your post from yesterday, but, I was talking about the republicans that hold an elected position, not anyone on this message board.

[JPhillips]

I think rich liberals who have such big professed beliefs in the government doing good things with tax money should be writing voluntary checks to the state and federal treasury all the time. That makes their opinion a little more genuine, IMO. As opposed to liberals who are largely in favor of higher taxes, as long as someone else is paying them (preferably generic, evil rich people)

The latter is similar to a conservative who lectures that people need to take on a bigger individual role in helping people, but then don't actually help anyone themselves.

So if you're not writing extra checks to the government you aren't allowed to say that taxes need to increase?

[JPhillips]

Gotta give Kerry props for this:

Sen. Kerry to pay $500K tax on yacht - Local News Updates - MetroDesk - The Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2010/07/sen_kerry_to_pa.html)

Senator John Kerry said today he will voluntarily cut a check to the state of Massachusetts for some $500,000 in sales tax for a yacht he purchased in Rhode Island earlier this year.

"We’ve reached out to the Massachusetts Department of Revenue and made clear that, whether owed or not, we intend to pay the equivalent taxes as if the boat’s home-port were currently in Massachusetts," Kerry said in a statement released this afternoon. "That payment is being made promptly."

Kerry has been dogged by questions in recent days by questions about whether he purposely tried to evade taxes in his home state by listing the $7 million yacht's home berth as Newport, R.I. when he actually intended to use the boat at his summer home on Nantucket. His yacht purchase was first reported in the Boston Herald.

Props for getting caught? It's something he should do as a resident of MA, but he's only making things right because he got busted.

[molson]

So if you're not writing extra checks to the government you aren't allowed to say that taxes need to increase?

You're allowed to say anything you want, but if you think taxes should be higher, and then you write extra checks to the government or overpay your taxes, that's pretty compelling evidence of your sincerity.

What if I said that regular Americans should give more to charity, when I didn't give a penny to anyone myself? Same kind of thing.

[molson]

Props for getting caught? It's something he should do as a resident of MA, but he's only making things right because he got busted.

This would have blown over. He didn't have to pay the $500k. It's not like he's in danger of being voted out of office anytime soon.

[Greyroofoo]

It must be nice to marry rich.

[JPhillips]

You're allowed to say anything you want, but if you think taxes should be higher, and then you write extra checks to the government or overpay your taxes, that's pretty compelling evidence of your sincerity.

What if I said that regular Americans should give more to charity, when I didn't give a penny to anyone myself? Same kind of thing.

But your personal hypocrisy wouldn't invalidate the point.

And do you really want to go down this road? Can only those who have served in the military speak about the military? Only those that have lived abroad can talk about foreign policy?

[Dutch]

This would have blown over. He didn't have to pay the $500k. It's not like he's in danger of being voted out of office anytime soon.

Republicans would never win a senate seat in Massachussetts!

[molson]

But your personal hypocrisy wouldn't invalidate the point.

And do you really want to go down this road? Can only those who have served in the military speak about the military? Only those that have lived abroad can talk about foreign policy?

No, I don't think any of that. Anybody can say whatever the hell they want.

I've always kind of wondered why government is never considered an appropriate charity for those who believe it does so much good. Maybe people do write them extra checks and I don't know about it.

[JPhillips]

It's the phrase "compelling evidence of your sincerity" that would seem to limit policy discussion to only those with personal experience.

I did recently see that there were millions in voluntary overpayments, but compared to the population it's pretty small.

[DaddyTorgo]

For what, proving he's willing to throw away money for political p.r.? Not sure that's really praiseworthy.

He's got more money then he (or his kids) will ever need.

[DaddyTorgo]

Republicans would never win a senate seat in Massachussetts!

The rural portions of the state and the horribly run campaign by the Democratic candidate contributed to a temporary brain-fart on the part of a very slim majority of the population. :rant: :rant:

You bet your ass we'll be rectifying that ASAP.

[molson]

It's the phrase "compelling evidence of your sincerity" that would seem to limit policy discussion to only those with personal experience.



Evidence of sincerity is different than a mandatory prerequisite to sincerity.

Writing a big check to the government is damn good evidence that you believe in what government does. But there can be other kinds of evidence.

[JonInMiddleGA]

He's got more money then he (or his kids) will ever need.

There's no such thing.

[Marc Vaughan]

There's no such thing.

Definitely is such a thing imho - if you want to test this theory out I'd be willing to oblige.

I reckon $10m would do me and mine pretty well, if you'd care to ship it over to my place by Fedex and you're welcome to check in with me every few years and see if I've run out or not ;)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Definitely is such a thing imho - if you want to test this theory out I'd be willing to oblige.

I reckon $10m would do me and mine pretty well, if you'd care to ship it over to my place by Fedex and you're welcome to check in with me every few years and see if I've run out or not ;)

If you can't go through $10 million without any bizarre spending (i.e. buying an indy league baseball team in North Dakota) then you aren't trying. Hell, you're consciously trying not to spend on that amount to get it to last.

*I always try to make a bizarre spending exception on these things, I mean, that's only fair. Buying a few sports franchises & a couple of bad social gaming developers could run through a heck of a lot quickly.

[Dutch]

The rural portions of the state and the horribly run campaign by the Democratic candidate contributed to a temporary brain-fart on the part of a very slim majority of the population. :rant: :rant:

You bet your ass we'll be rectifying that ASAP.

A two-party system cannot work in the labor controlled northeast. No doubt this guy will be buried Hoffa-style if he wins again.

[RainMaker]

A two-party system cannot work in the labor controlled northeast. No doubt this guy will be buried Hoffa-style if he wins again.
Labor unions aren't as big as you think in Massachusetts. They aren't even in the top 10. Some of the other states in the region are another story.

[Dutch]

Well, to be fair Massachussetts is about the size of large Iowa farm...so just outside the Top 10 is not bad.

[BishopMVP]

Well, to be fair Massachussetts is about the size of large Iowa farm...so just outside the Top 10 is not bad.I think he's saying (mostly correctly) that labor unions aren't among the top 10 special interest groups in MA. Teachers Unions have some clout, Police & Fire ones do at the city level, but they're really not big or necessary to convince people to vote Democratic. There are too many small fiefdoms and too much provincialism to ever cede the initiative to a national organization.

[BishopMVP]

The rural portions of the state and the horribly run campaign by the Democratic candidate contributed to a temporary brain-fart on the part of a very slim majority of the population. :rant: :rant:

You bet your ass we'll be rectifying that ASAP.4.4 million of the 6.5 million people in MA live in "Greater Boston" (depending on how you define it). Scott Brown's base was actually the South and the North Shore in addition to CMass. Western Mass, the most rural part of the state, actually voted for Coakley - File:Massachusetts Senatorial Special Election Results by Municipality, 2010.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Massachusetts_Senatorial_Special_Election_Results_by_Municipality,_2010.svg)

You are correct that that race has little bearing on any attempt to unseat an incumbent like Kerry.

[RainMaker]

Well, to be fair Massachussetts is about the size of large Iowa farm...so just outside the Top 10 is not bad.
Not talking total numbers, just talking % of people in the state.

[DaddyTorgo]

4.4 million of the 6.5 million people in MA live in "Greater Boston" (depending on how you define it). Scott Brown's base was actually the South and the North Shore in addition to CMass. Western Mass, the most rural part of the state, actually voted for Coakley - File:Massachusetts Senatorial Special Election Results by Municipality, 2010.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Massachusetts_Senatorial_Special_Election_Results_by_Municipality,_2010.svg)

You are correct that that race has little bearing on any attempt to unseat an incumbent like Kerry.

Oh that's right. I'd forgotten how it broke down. Central Mass=Western Mass to me. It's all the same.

South Shore is our own little redneck-secret, you know that. North Shore...they're alright, they just went a little overboard on the "leave us to fend for ourselves" theme.

[Marc Vaughan]

If you can't go through $10 million without any bizarre spending (i.e. buying an indy league baseball team in North Dakota) then you aren't trying. Hell, you're consciously trying not to spend on that amount to get it to last.

LOL :D

I think our lifestyles might differ somewhat, I grew up skint - I don't consciously try not to spend money ... thats my natural state of being, you have to pry money out of my hands ;)

[molson]

"Don't work actually change the tax laws, just voluntarily donate more tax money!"

This sentence doesn't make any sense.

[JediKooter]

I am of the opinion that it is no ones business (excluding illegal activity) what other people do with their money. If someone makes a billion dollars a year, it is their money and they can do whatever they want with it. If they choose to give some to charity, fine. If they choose to keep it all to themselves, that's fine too.

[molson]

I am of the opinion that it is no ones business (excluding illegal activity) what other people do with their money. If someone makes a billion dollars a year, it is their money and they can do whatever they want with it. If they choose to give some to charity, fine. If they choose to keep it all to themselves, that's fine too.

But taxes are everyone's business, literally.

By definition, having any opinion on any tax (for or against) is having an opinion on what someone else should do with their money.

So I think it's a little problematic to have an incredibly strong opinion about what other people do with their money, but then claim it's nobody's business what you do with your own.

[JediKooter]

Wasn't talking about taxes...even though this thread is about taxes.

Edit: Now that I think about it, I did cover taxes when I said "Excluding illegal activity", since it is illegal to not pay your taxes.

[BishopMVP]

Oh that's right. I'd forgotten how it broke down. Central Mass=Western Mass to me. It's all the same.

South Shore is our own little redneck-secret, you know that. North Shore...they're alright, they just went a little overboard on the "leave us to fend for ourselves" theme.Only reason I know CMass/WMass differences is the time spent at UMass... if you want to condescend to the rest of the state, I'm with you. There's the Rt 2 corridor out to Acton, the MetroWest until you get to Framingham and maybe the Rt 109 corridor down to Medfield. Other than that, there are maybe 3 towns in the state I'd live in - Amherst/Hadley and Duxbury. North Shore is eerily similar to the South Shore - ok enough on the ocean - tourists going to the beach, the remnants of the fishing industry and their kids that think they're tougher than they are, but head inland and its gets horrible. Methuen/Lawrence/Haverhill are the equivalent of Fall River/Tauntun/Attleboro. Even some of the supposedly nicer towns like Beverly/Salem/Marshfield/Weymouth are trashy.

[molson]

Fitchburg FTW!

OK, that's it.

[BishopMVP]

Fitchburg FTW!

OK, that's it.You're not going to defend Leominster and Gardner while you're at it? It's really the extra half-hour into Boston that kills those for me. I can drive an hour round-trip to hang out with friends or go out for the night, but a full hour each way is pushing it. And I like Boston a little more as an entertainment hub than Worcester. :p

[molson]

You're not going to defend Leominster and Gardner while you're at it? It's really the extra half-hour into Boston that kills those for me. I can drive an hour round-trip to hang out with friends or go out for the night, but a full hour each way is pushing it. And I like Boston a little more as an entertainment hub than Worcester. :p

The worst is that commuter train. It's about an hour and forty-five minutes from Fitchburg to North Station. And it smells funny. Alewife is pretty convenient though.

Fitchburg and Worcester are "entertainment hubs" in the sense that it was pretty entertaining to drink beer in the woods there back in the day.

[Young Drachma]

Makes the pick of Lieberman all the more appropriate then, I guess.

[Young Drachma]

Well, to be fair Massachussetts is about the size of large Iowa farm...so just outside the Top 10 is not bad.

I laughed.

[DaddyTorgo]

Only reason I know CMass/WMass differences is the time spent at UMass... if you want to condescend to the rest of the state, I'm with you. There's the Rt 2 corridor out to Acton, the MetroWest until you get to Framingham and maybe the Rt 109 corridor down to Medfield. Other than that, there are maybe 3 towns in the state I'd live in - Amherst/Hadley and Duxbury. North Shore is eerily similar to the South Shore - ok enough on the ocean - tourists going to the beach, the remnants of the fishing industry and their kids that think they're tougher than they are, but head inland and its gets horrible. Methuen/Lawrence/Haverhill are the equivalent of Fall River/Tauntun/Attleboro. Even some of the supposedly nicer towns like Beverly/Salem/Marshfield/Weymouth are trashy.

This :D

I'm just lucky enough to have grown up and spent all my time in the nice parts of the state.

Methuen and Lawrence are wretched. Don't even get me started on the 24-7 crack-den that is Lowell. Ugh.

Salem's okay in the touristy type parts of town (from what I remember. Been awhile). Weymouth is a pit.

[DaddyTorgo]

The worst is that commuter train. It's about an hour and forty-five minutes from Fitchburg to North Station. And it smells funny. Alewife is pretty convenient though.

Fitchburg and Worcester are "entertainment hubs" in the sense that it was pretty entertaining to drink beer in the woods there back in the day.

Worcester as an entertainment hub is so dead. It's depressing. I remember once I drove my sister to some rap concert out there when she was in HS. I needed to kill some time, but even that shopping mall thing by the Centrum was closed at like 8pm. I ended up sitting in some restauraunt for like 2 hours and in my car for an hour.

That town is so run-down. It's kinda sad actually.

[DaddyTorgo]

The worst is that commuter train. It's about an hour and forty-five minutes from Fitchburg to North Station. And it smells funny. Alewife is pretty convenient though.

Fitchburg and Worcester are "entertainment hubs" in the sense that it was pretty entertaining to drink beer in the woods there back in the day.

Worcester as an entertainment hub is so dead. It's depressing. I remember once I drove my sister to some rap concert out there when she was in HS. I needed to kill some time, but even that shopping mall thing by the Centrum was closed at like 8pm. I ended up sitting in some restauraunt for like 2 hours and in my car for an hour.

That town is so run-down. It's kinda sad actually.