Dear Mr. Gindin

[MizzouRah]

Football season is here and I'm itching for a new FOF.


Thank you,

FOF fan

[bulletsponge]

ditto

[A-Husker-4-Life]

I really hope he releases a new version and show's Madden how to make a proper Franchise..

[Ben E Lou]

What happens if there's an FOF7 with no Stelmack utilites?

[cuervo72]

What happens if there's an FOF7 with no Stelmack utilites?

THAT really is the question to be asked, yes.

If there isn't any way to get raw data - box/log data, schedule data, player data, player ratings, etc. - out of the game to fuel pages like Ben, myself and others have built, not to mention online draft utilities...I'm not so sure online leagues would upgrade. I'd really need a good reason to encourage FOFL too, that's for sure.

To throw in a disclaimer - MP is the only way I play the game at this point (FOFL and IHOF). If a new version can't provide a similar online experience, I don't think I'd purchase it.

[wade moore]

THAT really is the question to be asked, yes.

If there isn't any way to get raw data - box/log data, schedule data, player data, player ratings, etc. - out of the game to fuel pages like Ben, myself and others have built, not to mention online draft utilities...I'm not so sure online leagues would upgrade. I'd really need a good reason to encourage FOFL too, that's for sure.

To throw in a disclaimer - MP is the only way I play the game at this point (FOFL and IHOF). If a new version can't provide a similar online experience, I don't think I'd purchase it.

I'd be pretty concerned if we had to take a dramatic step back to solehtml with a new version. With the distinct possibility of no stelmack utilities (or heck, even if he DID make them the gap between release of FOF and release of the stelmack utilities could be big) - I'm hoping Solecismic decides to take a step forward in what they offer in this regard. Whether it be the ability to dump straight to mysql as Greg's utilities do, or just a .csv with all of the stats data available quickly.

I have grown very accustomed to the pages that cuervo and ben have created, I can't imagine taking a step back and having less data that is less accessible and harder to look at.

[MizzouRah]

What happens if there's an FOF7 with no Stelmack utilites?

Never used them, I'm a solo player only.

[Ben E Lou]

Right, Todd. But many people do use them for SP, and they're 100% essential for MP as we know it. They're not just needed to do a decent web site, but the draft utilities *need* them.

That said, I'm surprised you don't use them for the graphical updates.

[MizzouRah]

Right, Todd. But many people do use them for SP, and they're 100% essential for MP as we know it. They're not just needed to do a decent web site, but the draft utilities *need* them.

That said, I'm surprised you don't use them for the graphical updates.

Now I'm going to look at that suite.. I'm just bummed and want the excitement that only a new FOF announcement can do to this site. :)

[kingfc22]

To throw in a disclaimer - MP is the only way I play the game at this point (FOFL and IHOF). If a new version can't provide a similar online experience, I don't think I'd purchase it.

DITTO!!!!

[MacroGuru]

I just want one I don't have to use batch files for to switch things around for multiple league.s

[Dutch]

I just want one I don't have to use batch files for to switch things around for multiple league.s

Well there's an idea. How about Jim takes a break from changing the game engine and spend some time fixing the UI and data accessability. Repackage it, throw in some new stat windows, maybe a welcome screen and a end of season recap screen, call it FOF2k7 6.5 and put it out as an update for $9.99...

Then TCY2...

[MacroGuru]

Well there's an idea. How about Jim takes a break from changing the game engine and spend some time fixing the UI and data accessability. Repackage it, throw in some new stat windows, maybe a welcome screen and a end of season recap screen, call it FOF2k7 6.5 and put it out as an update for $9.99...

Then TCY2...

So are you saying in the past 3 years since the game came out that he is not only is going to change the game engine but update the UI and make the data accessibility easier?

If he honestly manages all 3, I would be willing to pay at least $14.99 for it, no sense in selling it for so cheap there...

[Dutch]

Well, 2 out of 3. I kind of think he should give the game engine a break and step away from it for a while....and work on cleaning up the game SP presentation and MP functionality a bit.

[MizzouRah]

I'm down with that Dutch.. and a 2010 player file and I'm good.

What can I do with these Stelmack utilities?

[strickzilla]

What happens if there's an FOF7 with no Stelmack utilites?



i wouldnt mind at all just means wed have to *gasp* figure out the game the "hard way" trial and error :eek:

im not your typical gamer, i love football in all its forms, i enjoy figuring out how to play a game not trying to figure out patterns, if that seems contradictory think of paying a game, or going to game faqs and reading the walkthru before you even try. i want to get to the end, play the game watch the story unfold. Learn how to play as im playing instead of KNOWING how to play and then picking up the game

ignorance is bliss...at least for me

[Sef0r]

I can only assume that he knows about the suite/utilities and may be working torward a way to implement something similar.

OR...

He isn't even close to releasing a new game, wait until next year.

[Yoda]

What happens if there's an FOF7 with no Stelmack utilites?

Then I hope that Jim puts something similar into the new version, gives Greg the information he needs and Greg is feeling generous or someone else steps up.

If none of that, I don't forsee upgrading.

[Yoda]

I can only assume that he knows about the suite/utilities and may be working torward a way to implement something similar.

OR...

He isn't even close to releasing a new game, wait until next year.

He mentioned that last year he intended to release a new version but time constraints put a hold on that. Which makes me hopeful there is a new version on the horizon.

[Ben E Lou]

i wouldnt mind at all just means wed have to *gasp* figure out the game the "hard way" trial and error :eek:

im not your typical gamer, i love football in all its forms, i enjoy figuring out how to play a game not trying to figure out patterns, if that seems contradictory think of paying a game, or going to game faqs and reading the walkthru before you even try. i want to get to the end, play the game watch the story unfold. Learn how to play as im playing instead of KNOWING how to play and then picking up the game

ignorance is bliss...at least for me
Um, the Stelmack Utilities aren't just used to help with drafting. That's just a tiny part of them, really. As has been mentioned above, a league can't have a decent web site or run an efficient draft without them. Overall, they don't help "figure out the game" at all. Someone who doesn't already know how to draft won't find much use out of the Draft Analyzer, even.

[cuervo72]

i wouldnt mind at all just means wed have to *gasp* figure out the game the "hard way" trial and error :eek:

im not your typical gamer, i love football in all its forms, i enjoy figuring out how to play a game not trying to figure out patterns, if that seems contradictory think of paying a game, or going to game faqs and reading the walkthru before you even try. i want to get to the end, play the game watch the story unfold. Learn how to play as im playing instead of KNOWING how to play and then picking up the game

ignorance is bliss...at least for me

Yeah, it really isn't about "figuring out" the game, at least not any differently than you would by looking at in-game stats or in-game ratings.

Here's a typical (well, reasonably typical) FOFL player page:

theFOFL.com : Player >> Levon O'Donnell (http://www.thefofl.com/players/player.php?player=20640)

We see basic experience/college/height/weight/name info (data dumped by Stelmack's Interrogator in this case). We see ratings (data pulled by Stelmack's Extractor). We see year-by-year team (also Interrogator, with a little back-end programming to remember which team was what in which year (http://www.thefofl.com/teampages/history.php?t=19) - something even FOF doesn't have).

We see game-by-game stats (Interrogator), linked to specific games. There is a Player Makeup section (Interrogator). Draft combines (ok, this is taken and stored from the game html, but is typically lost after the draft).

There is also a running ratings movement - something not in the game. Also gotten from Extractor and stored. Now, this may not *seem* important to some, if you figure that folks will generally track the ratings movement of their players. Well, that's true and it's not. Some MAY be able to do this mentally. Some may keep a notebook. But in MP, what about players from teams other than yours? What about owners just coming into an established league, with no knowledge of the players? This helps them out (and can help them from getting fleeced).

Granted, just about all that is shown here is available in-game. But not all owners can always be in-game (work, travel). These sites are very helpful in keeping owners up-to-speed and immersed in the league.

Really, I wish MORE info was available. Like coaches. We used to keep track of coaches, both ratings and records. That was before coach data was buried in 2k7. Stelmack couldn't easily extract it, so that info ceased to be updated online. Of course coaches and scouts are largely an afterthought in leagues now (well, they may have been before too).

[dwardzala]

There is also a running ratings movement - something not in the game. Also gotten from Extractor and stored. Now, this may not *seem* important to some, if you figure that folks will generally track the ratings movement of their players. Well, that's true and it's not. Some MAY be able to do this mentally. Some may keep a notebook. But in MP, what about players from teams other than yours? What about owners just coming into an established league, with no knowledge of the players? This helps them out (and can help them from getting fleeced).

Granted, just about all that is shown here is available in-game. But not all owners can always be in-game (work, travel). These sites are very helpful in keeping owners up-to-speed and immersed in the league.



The running ratings movement is very important. The leagues I am in don't have this upgrade but I would absolutely love it.

I hope Jim is able to either integrate this type of functionality so that websites can easily be created and maintained or that Greg (or somebody else) will be able to quickly update the utilities.

[Bako]

I have wanted to use the ratings tracker for a long time, but am by no means good with computers/technology.

Are there directions to install the ratings tracker anywhere that are so simple to understand a caveman could do it?

[cuervo72]

Well, I don't know about the Change Tracker utility (primelord's, I think?), but what Ben and I do is to periodically generate and save data from Extractor into db tables that we custom built (I actually run mine through a perl parser first).

[Khorium]

I'm down with that Dutch.. and a 2010 player file and I'm good.



According to solecismic.com, the 2009 player file didn't come out until after the season was over.

I'm not holding my breath on any update at all. It wouldn't surprise me if he had to go back to a cubicle farm in this economy.

[Subby]

ignorance is bliss...at least for me
Well at least you admit to being ignorant.

[strickzilla]

Well at least you admit to being ignorant.

i guess that was supposed to be an insult :lol:
but im humble enough to admit my ignorance, instead of pretending otherwise. that is the beginning of wisdom ;)

[Dutch]

Are you sure you are humble enough? You initially didn't plead ignorance of what the utilities provided but dogged them as something of a cheat.

[strickzilla]

if you wish to jack this thread and pick on me go ahead and do it in pm, this goes for anyone else as well, id rather not this be about me. i am learning a lot but if you feel the need to berate me further go right ahead, but lets not ruin this excellent learning opportunity. i know ive learned a lot.

ben and cuervo did a great job of educating myself, and im sure other of the extent of what the utilities cover, but if you feel the need to "beat me up" for saying what i said have at me. but dont jack this informative thread

or if you feel there is some penance i should do im sure youll let me know

[Dutch]

I'm showing proper respect to gstelmack's outstanding utilities which have nothing to do with cheating or gaming the FOF engine. I'd hate for your opinion that it's a cheat to spread. It's bad info and that can't be rectified through PM.

[RedKingGold]

I wish Ben and Cuervo did a great job of educating myself.

[iBomb1st]

Yeah, it really isn't about "figuring out" the game, at least not any differently than you would by looking at in-game stats or in-game ratings.

Here's a typical (well, reasonably typical) FOFL player page:

theFOFL.com : Player >> Levon O'Donnell (http://www.thefofl.com/players/player.php?player=20640)

We see basic experience/college/height/weight/name info (data dumped by Stelmack's Interrogator in this case). We see ratings (data pulled by Stelmack's Extractor). We see year-by-year team (also Interrogator, with a little back-end programming to remember which team was what in which year (http://www.thefofl.com/teampages/history.php?t=19) - something even FOF doesn't have).

We see game-by-game stats (Interrogator), linked to specific games. There is a Player Makeup section (Interrogator). Draft combines (ok, this is taken and stored from the game html, but is typically lost after the draft).

There is also a running ratings movement - something not in the game. Also gotten from Extractor and stored. Now, this may not *seem* important to some, if you figure that folks will generally track the ratings movement of their players. Well, that's true and it's not. Some MAY be able to do this mentally. Some may keep a notebook. But in MP, what about players from teams other than yours? What about owners just coming into an established league, with no knowledge of the players? This helps them out (and can help them from getting fleeced).

Granted, just about all that is shown here is available in-game. But not all owners can always be in-game (work, travel). These sites are very helpful in keeping owners up-to-speed and immersed in the league.

Really, I wish MORE info was available. Like coaches. We used to keep track of coaches, both ratings and records. That was before coach data was buried in 2k7. Stelmack couldn't easily extract it, so that info ceased to be updated online. Of course coaches and scouts are largely an afterthought in leagues now (well, they may have been before too).

That player card is awesome. Any league openings?

[RedKingGold]

Lackawanna is NOT available.

[cuervo72]

That player card is awesome. Any league openings?

Ah, missed this over the weekend. Actually yes, there are two (Ayr and White Rock).

[MizzouRah]

Anyone hear from Jim recently? I'm just wondering how he's doing?

[Alf]

Reading his frontier blog, here is a March 5 2010 entry : * A New Quarterback Grade*by*Football Frontier (http://www.solecismic.com/frontierblog/?p=333#comments)

quoting Jim
I’m thinking of integrating the quarterback grade into future versions of Front Office Football (if there ever is such a product)

[Alf]

Another one from March 2010
* Mining the Country for Football Talent*by*Football Frontier (http://www.solecismic.com/frontierblog/?p=335)

I did a rather simple study a few months ago, while I was adding a feature to Front Office Football.

[MizzouRah]

Thanks Alf.. forgot about FF.

[marc_rdfl]

I actually have a website that runs off the html boxscores, but am changing over to the dbupdater to allow someone else to update the website whilst I'm not around at times so I could go back to the html but it would be a pain!!

[Khorium]

Reading his frontier blog, here is a March 5 2010 entry : * A New Quarterback Grade*by*Football Frontier (http://www.solecismic.com/frontierblog/?p=333#comments)

quoting Jim
I’m thinking of integrating the quarterback grade into future versions of Front Office Football (if there ever is such a product)

Another one from March 2010
* Mining the Country for Football Talent*by*Football Frontier (http://www.solecismic.com/frontierblog/?p=335)

I did a rather simple study a few months ago, while I was adding a feature to Front Office Football.

:banghead:

Good grief. It would be nice to just get an announcement one way or another rather than datamining ancient blog posts for clues.

[tald]

I have been into this game since it came out. I love the game and would pay almost any price for a new one. However if there is not going to be another FOF out:( what else is out there to take it's place.