Fun Facebook Drama at the Office

[lordscarlet]

We are a very lenient, shenanigan-filled group of coworkers. However, things got a little serious today.

The summary is best summarized in this post by my boss (this has gotten way more interesting than reading the thread about FOFC drama).

Please weigh in.
Employee A and B call in sick to Manager Z. Z gives permission to A to work from home because A is sick and and requested. A while later, through FB status update of Coworker C, Z learns that A and B are hanging all day with a friend in DC and not at all sick. Meanwhile, Company is at 50% staff due to vacations, under deadlines and has a new guy starting all on the same day. How should Z handle this?

[QuikSand]

ping Flere

[JonInMiddleGA]

Assuming the info is confirmed, Z's department should be short two employees tomorrow & should be breaking in two more new guys next week.

[Passacaglia]

Assuming the info is confirmed, Z's department should be short two employees tomorrow & should be breaking in two more new guys next week.

I think B might be okay -- it probably depends on sick day policies. A is toast though.

[MIJB#19]

You could wonder what Z was doing on C's Facebook page during worktime.

[JonInMiddleGA]

You could wonder what Z was doing on C's Facebook page during worktime.

Due dilligence

[JonInMiddleGA]

I think B might be okay -- it probably depends on sick day policies. A is toast though.

B is a fuzzier situation (since they don't appear to have tried to defraud the company by claiming to be "working from home") but they still lied about the sick day & were dumb enough to get caught.

Ultimately that's an employee you're better off replacing.

[Mustang]

Z needs to confront A and B and get the story as opposed to getting it from C. (Maybe C hates A and just made something up)

I'd say at a minimum, the days aren't sick days and are vacation days. I don't think I'd be firing anyone unless there is a history of this happening.

[MrBug708]

Depends on what they planned on doing in DC? B could simply say that he was going to see a sick person and needed the time off. (Im not sure of the company's policy in what constitutes a sick day)

[lordscarlet]

B is a fuzzier situation (since they don't appear to have tried to defraud the company by claiming to be "working from home") but they still lied about the sick day & were dumb enough to get caught.

Ultimately that's an employee you're better off replacing.

Well, FWIW, I don't believe A was defrauding. I believe he asked if he could work from home so he could get some stuff done before he went out for his hooky activities. Probably a) to attempt to alleviate some guilt or b) try to keep up with crazy deadlines that would spiral out of control because of his day of hooky.

[Lathum]

I think unless A is a complete screw up you find a way to punish him, such as take away a vacation day or remove his privilege to work from home.

[lordscarlet]

Z needs to confront A and B and get the story as opposed to getting it from C. (Maybe C hates A and just made something up)

I'd say at a minimum, the days aren't sick days and are vacation days. I don't think I'd be firing anyone unless there is a history of this happening.

The B and C relationship is complicated, but based on the original source (the person A and B are hanging out with today posting on their fb wall that is visible via "Fake" accounts person Z controls -- wow this is a lot to explain. :) Joke accounts basically)...

backing up..

Basically friend of A and B posted on her wall, "Thanks to A and B for playing hooky and hanging out with me in DC today!" and then person C reposted that. Person Z also has a joke account hat is friends with the aforementioned hooky accomplice. So Person Z logged in there and confirmed the original posting. Said accomplice has also made follow up replies to Person C that continues her confirmation that this is indeed occurring.

So, anyway. They'll be forced to use vacation days. They will be talked to and made to hopefully shit their pants. I HIGHLY doubt anyone will get fired. Person Z is very lenient about vacation time generally speaking. He probably would have even given a green light to whatever they were doing today if they had asked and made a plan to make sure they got their work done. However, they chose to take the shady route. This is the first time anything has happened like this that is known, so it's unlikely anyone is getting fired. And as I said above, my understanding is that Person A did not say "Can I work from home?" and then leave home and plan to bill hours. My understanding is that he said, "can I work from home while I'm sick?" and did a bunch of work before heading out to hang out in the city. (which, for those who don't know, is where our office is :))

[lordscarlet]

I think unless A is a complete screw up you find a way to punish him, such as take away a vacation day or remove his privilege to work from home.

Removing that privilege has definitely been mentioned. I think that would definitely be a good course of action, even if only on a temporary basis. You take advantage of things like that and you lose that privilege.

[Lathum]

Based on your description of your boss it sounds like person A is a douche by going the route they did.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Well, FWIW, I don't believe A was defrauding. I believe he asked if he could work from home so he could get some stuff done before he went out for his hooky activities.

I didn't notice your location & the hooky location being the same until your reply, I'll admit that your scenario is plausible. I initially read that bit about "hanging out with a friend in DC" as a trip involving enough distance to make doing both that & working in the same unlikely (i.e. it was a road trip).

[Mustang]

Sounds like Z has some suspicions about other things that they have gone through the hassle of doing fake facebook accounts. That or they are just nosey.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Out of curiosity, is this a smaller company or a larger corporate entity?

I ask because it seems possible to me that, at least in larger operations, there's something in a personnel or policy manual that would cover this and leave the speculation fairly moot.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Based on your description of your boss it sounds like person A is a douche by going the route they did.

Also sounds like A and B's friend is moron. You don't post shit like that.

[Pumpy Tudors]

There are too many unknowns for me to say anything firmly, but I'll state my assumptions and then my opinion that is based only on those assumptions:

1. Unless stated by the employee when calling in sick, the assumption is that the employee is planning to work a full day (8 hours or whatever is expected) from home.

2. A vacation day requires approval in advance. Obviously, a sick day isn't normally something that's planned in advance.

So, assuming #1 to be true, the employee is apparently not intending to work a full day. If he's too sick to work, fine, but if he's not, then he had lied to his manager for the purpose of getting a shortened work day. Maybe it helps him to alleviate his guilt, but I'm not sure I could trust or use an employee like that.

Assuming #2 to be true, it seems that he didn't ask to use a vacation day because he probably knew it would be hard to approve with the situation facing the company right now (other people on vacation, deadlines, etc.). Obviously, that isn't enough to stop him from finding some way to get this day off, so he decided to call in sick and get his day that way.

Obviously, I have no idea why these people wanted to go to DC today, but I would hope that it was important enough to put their coworkers in a bind and erode their own credibility. If I were their coworker, I would probably think these two people weren't very bright and get on with my own work. If I were their manager, I would think that these two people - particularly person A - weren't very useful and evaluate whether they should even bother coming back.

Edit: Well, shit. In the time it took me to post this, other facts have come through. That would probably change some of the stuff I said above, but I don't really see the point of changing it now. I'll be in the back lighting myself on fire. Thanks.

[PackerFanatic]

Also sounds like A and B's friend is moron. You don't post shit like that.

My thoughts exactly.

[lordscarlet]

Sounds like Z has some suspicions about other things that they have gone through the hassle of doing fake facebook accounts. That or they are just nosey.

Hah. No. I will go through the trouble of explaining and you will probably wish I didn't. :)

One day person B posted a picture on his wall of a squirrel outside his window at home. However, he spelled it "squirell". Another coworker made fun of him for his misspelling. I then said that clearly it's because that is his legal name, "Squirell". It spiraled into our boss, Z, creating an account for Quirinus Squirell, college professor. Then, later in the day, Earl Squirell, his alcoholic brother. A, B, Z, accomplice, most of our corowkers, etc, are fb friends with the Squirell brothers.

Out of curiosity, is this a smaller company or a larger corporate entity?

I ask because it seems possible to me that, at least in larger operations, there's something in a personnel or policy manual that would cover this and leave the speculation fairly moot.

I'm sure our manual says that there should be serious consequences, but I don't really know. We work for a government contractor and I have no idea how many employees we have. Our group of about 15 people is quite autonomous. We have only ever met one other person that works for our contractor, the VP that visits us once a month from the HQ in Colorado.

Also sounds like A and B's friend is moron. You don't post shit like that.

Yes. And person C is a douchebag for reposting it. But that doesn't take away my amusement about the impending awkwardness tomorrow. :)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Also sounds like A and B's friend is moron. You don't post shit like that.

+1

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm sure our manual says that there should be serious consequences, but I don't really know. We work for a government contractor and I have no idea how many employees we have. Our group of about 15 people is quite autonomous. We have only ever met one other person that works for our contractor, the VP that visits us once a month from the HQ in Colorado.

Did you just tell us that this is actually someone's tax dollars at work?

[Danny]

Just a little different take here. The boss needs to first call these guys into the office and get their story. You can't just make assumptions just because person c posted something on facebook. How do we know person A and B weren't actually sick with person A working his 8 hours at home and then them heading to DC to visit their friend because their gf just dumped them (or some other thing like that)? I realize that is not the most likely explanation, but it is possible.

I would not want someone making assumptions based on a friend posting something on facebook. As an example, the day before my birthday, I left class early because I wasn't feeling well. A friend from class posted on my facebook wall posted something on my wall about leaving class early to celebrate. In actuality, I had diarrhea, and did nothing after leaving but use the bathroom a lot and stay home.

[Mustang]

Did you just tell us that this is actually someone's tax dollars at work?

Oh, nice job LS...

It's on now.

[JonInMiddleGA]

You can't just make assumptions just because person c posted something on facebook.

Note: There's also a second person in the loop confirming the hooky story

[lordscarlet]

Oh, nice job LS...

It's on now.

Hah. I didn't even think about this easily foreseeable turn of events.

Yes, we are government contractors. No, no one on my team is charging the government for hours they do not spend completing their work. Do we screw around on facebook and/or FOFC during the work day sometimes? Yes, but most of us are generally at the office for roughly 10 hours a day and bill an 8 hour workday.

[wade moore]

This is what I posted on facebook:

This HAS to be addressed. However, they need to be addressed differently.

Person B - This g...uy played straight up hooky. While it's not the end of the world, as a manager you have to address it - especially with the staffing, schedule, etc issues you mentioned. I would force them to take a vacation day and let them know that if they misuse/abuse leave time again in the future, the consequences will be more serious.

Person A - I'm assuming they had every intention of charging time. Now, unfortunately, since it is all out publicly on FB that won't happen so you won't be able to completely call them on that. However, they need the same consequences as B and more. I would first and foremost inform them that their occasional (I assume) privilege to work from home is gone. In addition I'd have a serious talk with him about fraudulent time, especially on a government contract.

For both - I would consider (not 100% sure on this one) requiring a doctor's note for future sick days until further notice.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Hah. I didn't even think about this easily foreseeable turn of events.

FTR, I was going for a lighthearted tone with my question about that (just to make sure everybody

No, no one on my team is charging the government for hours they do not spend completing their work.

But now that you bring it up, depending upon the structure of the contract, how you record your hours & how the parent company/contract holder bills those hours could easily be two different things. Maybe your office bills the gov't directly, I don't know how you're structured obviously, but isn't the most comforting scenario.

[albionmoonlight]

Also, how big of a deal is it that your boss solves problems in the same way that a 6th grader decides who to take to the Junior High Prom?

I mean, doesn't he get paid to make decisions like what to do about A & B?

[Toddzilla]

Basically, if an employee lied to me about being sick to take time off, they'd be fired. period.

[lordscarlet]

FTR, I was going for a lighthearted tone with my question about that (just to make sure everybody



But now that you bring it up, depending upon the structure of the contract, how you record your hours & how the parent company/contract holder bills those hours could easily be two different things. Maybe your office bills the gov't directly, I don't know how you're structured obviously, but isn't the most comforting scenario.

yeah, that's why I didn't direct my reply straight at you. But for the record I thought I should make my defense anyway.

My company doesn't even know how long I'm in the office, honestly. There's no punch-in or anything. We work inside a government building so all my company knows is the time I enter on my time sheet that is approved my supervisor who works here on the team with me.

Now that all that is said and done...

The younger, newer guy (Person B) called Person Z in a panic and said, "I'm coming into the office as soon as I get back in town." (I think he had to take the accomplice back to Baltimore? I don't know exactly what is going on, or why he would not be "in town.")

It will be very amusing for those of us that will rib them about it for the next week or so (and by or so I mean, you know, a year ;))

[Suicane75]

F A, F B, F FB, F DC, Z Beats Lee so F him too, that's why he's in ATL. C U N September.

[lordscarlet]

Also, how big of a deal is it that your boss solves problems in the same way that a 6th grader decides who to take to the Junior High Prom?

I mean, doesn't he get paid to make decisions like what to do about A & B?

Well, this is a little more, perhaps.. 9th grade?

He didn't really posted because he wants an answer. He posted to highlight the situation, but posed it as a question so that he's not just posting something to embarrass two people. I say this with authority, but I don't actually know. I just assume, based on being friends with him for 9 years, that this is the case. But, yes, generally he does not always handle things in the most mature manner. In most cases that leads to a cohesive team that is able to joke with each other. I don't believe that he is actually soliciting managerial advice from facebook, though.

[wade moore]

Also, how big of a deal is it that your boss solves problems in the same way that a 6th grader decides who to take to the Junior High Prom?

I mean, doesn't he get paid to make decisions like what to do about A & B?

I very loosely know/know of some of the people involved and I had the same reaction.

Especially because before this somewhat logical post, he basically made a "calling people out" post.

[Danny]

These other two people are probably guilty, but I don't think I'd want to work for someone who made decisions or took evidence from facebook.

[jeff061]

Docked vacation day and a written warning(second offense=firing) sounds fine to me.

I'm glad I don't work for some of you :). Short of being some temp or real scrub, I'm not sure how a firing enters the equation. Unless you are looking for a reason to dump them. Presumably they bring some value though and are not 100% interchangeable?

[wade moore]

These other two people are probably guilty, but I don't think I'd want to work for someone who made decisions or took evidence from facebook.

Evidence doesn't bother me fwiw in a specific instance like this.

[molson]

I think realistically, if your two options at work are sick day, and vacation day that you need to plan weeks in advance, you're going to have people "calling in sick" for personal reasons. That's 100% guaranteed. It's a whole silly charade across America where people have to make that "sick" phone call, fake a cough, etc.

From an upper-management perspective, eliminating or greatly reducing notice required for vacation days solves a lot of these problems. (Obviously, it depends on the nature of the work how much notice is required). I think three categories works well, vacation days (notice required), sick days (have to be sick), personal days (can only take 1 at a time, not back-to-back, generally no notice required).

The thing that really bugs me the most here is their choice of timing for this little sudden vacation. It shows a total lack of respect to co-workers to play around outside of work when it's a particularly difficult time for the company. That might be worth a firing. There's plenty of people out there looking for work who would be happy to show up.

We must have some real sickly people in this country, the way they hand out these sick days. I think I have 3 months of sick time saved up or something just after a couple of years. I've never used any. I guess it's a nice insurance against major long-term illness, or something, but seriously, anyone who calls in sick more than once in a blue room is taking some "personal time", or they have Lupas or something.

[Danny]

I didn't see the actual facebook posts and again this s most likely what it appears to me, but the post is from a 3rd party, not from one of the accused. You need to first get the story from these guys. For example, the quote posted was "Thanks to A and B for playing hooky and hanging out with me in DC today!". How do we know person A didn't put in 8 hours of work and then go hang out with the friend for an hour in the evening? If they do confess, then you deal with that. If not, then you need to get a full work report from person A and see if they actually did 8 hours of work.

[lordscarlet]

I think realistically, if your two options at work are sick day, and vacation day that you need to plan weeks in advance, you're going to have people "calling in sick" for personal reasons. That's 100% guaranteed. It's a whole silly charade across America where people have to make that "sick" phone call, fake a cough, etc.

From an upper-management perspective, eliminating or greatly reducing notice required for vacation days solves a lot of these problems. (Obviously, it depends on the nature of the work how much notice is required). I think three categories works well, vacation days (notice required), sick days (have to be sick), personal days (can only take 1 at a time, not back-to-back, generally no notice required).

The thing that really bugs me the most here is their choice of timing for this little sudden vacation. It shows a total lack of respect to co-workers to play around outside of work when it's a particularly difficult time for the company. That might be worth a firing. There's plenty of people out there looking for work who would be happy to show up.

They probably only knew that 1 or 2 people were out of the office. However, they are well aware of the crazy deadlines. And the former is why you let somebody know and they can either say, "OK, that's fine, we're really short-staffed, but if you can get your work done from home before/after that's fine." or, "I'd love to let you take off, but we are just too swamped. I'll make it up to you when all of these crazy deadlines are done."

However, they didnt' give anyone that opportunity. Instead they screwed their manager(s) and their coworkers by potentially leaving us all up a creek.

[lordscarlet]

I didn't see the actual facebook posts and may be mi, but it's from a 3rd party, not from one of the accused. You need to first get the story from these guys. For example, the quote posted was "Thanks to A and B for playing hooky and hanging out with me in DC today!". How do we know person A didn't put in 8 hours of work and then go hang out with the friend for an hour in the evening? If they do confess, then you deal with that. If not, then you need to get a full work report from person A and see if they actually did 8 hours of work.

It was an active thing posted the day of hooky. :) It was posted on a Monday morning. They didn't do it Saturday or Sunday. They are BOTH out sick today. There's really no other conclusion. Especially because of surrounding evidence/etc. I'm sure they will be asked their side of the story, but I doubt it's going to bring a different conclusion about the situation. I didn't bother to post every single detail of every facebook post/IM conversation/whatever because I didn't think the tedium would be necessary.

[Danny]

Ok, that changes things a lot then. I guess I just have a personal bias against sites like facebook and creating from it. Athough I have one and enjoy it on occasion, the importance placed upon things that happen in sites like that bugs me.

[Danny]

And my bias against hearsay/gossip :)

[molson]

It was an active thing posted the day of hooky. :) It was posted on a Monday morning. They didn't do it Saturday or Sunday. They are BOTH out sick today. There's really no other conclusion. Especially because of surrounding evidence/etc. I'm sure they will be asked their side of the story, but I doubt it's going to bring a different conclusion about the situation. I didn't bother to post every single detail of every facebook post/IM conversation/whatever because I didn't think the tedium would be necessary.

It will be interesting to see if they come clean when confronted. If you could somehow arrange for that meeting to be videotaped and post it here, that would be cool. Thanks.

[spleen1015]

Safe to say that lordscarlet is C?

:D

[lordscarlet]

Safe to say that lordscarlet is C?

:D

Hah. A friend of mine that is FB friends with Z asked which one I was, A or B. :)

I am not C. I think that was a douchebag move by C. I am just the recipient of the humor of awkwardness that comes with the actions by C.

[Logan]

ping Flere

Seriously. Next time, fake names!

[lordscarlet]

And now we have reached 6th grade (or FOFC ;)) levels.

(this is a Facebook post with names changed to protect the immature)

Person B about a month ago i watched Person C pick his nose and then eat the booger when he thought no one was around. didn't tell anyone about that, out of respect.

[Mustang]

Person B about a month ago i watched Person C pick his nose and then eat the booger when he thought no one was around. didn't tell anyone about that, out of respect.

You guys didn't bet on if he would eat it?

[spleen1015]

So, what's the atmosphere like for Person C around the office now?

[lordscarlet]

So, what's the atmosphere like for Person C around the office now?

Well.. two weeks ago I had a conversation with C that went something like this:

me: "Hey, your office smells good today."
C: "Yeah, my officemate hid air fresheners all over."
me: "Oh, cool, because it doesn't smell like feet today."
C: "Oh, that's because I have clean socks on today."
me: "Umm.. as opposed to others days?"
C: "What, like you wear a clean pair of socks every day?"
me: "Um. Yes."
C: "You would need like 80 pairs of socks!"
me: "How often do you do laundry??"
C: "Once every week or two."
me: "At most that's 14 pairs of socks."
C: "Whoah! that's way too many!"
me: "How many pairs of socks do you have?"
C: "I don't know.. I mean, they're not really 'pairs', but probably 4."
me: "4?!"

...that about sums up whether he is embarrassed about news that he ate his own boogers.

[RainMaker]

This is just from my experience running a small business. I'm assuming medium-large businesses are much different (can afford to train new employees, etc).

It would entirely depend on the person and their history. Are they a good worker normally? Is this completely out of the ordinary? If the person was valuable, I wouldn't let them go over something like this. Would say something to them and that I was disappointed that they felt they needed to lie. Then again we are pretty loose on personal days and if it's on a day that won't hurt us, I'd have let him have it off to do whatever he wanted to do.

But if the guy was always calling in sick, always taking off early, always sort of doing everything he could to avoid work, I'd see this as a good reason to let him go. Sort of the icing on the cake.

I know it's easy to say that you'd fire him in a second, but if the guy is valuable to you and it would cost you more money to let him go than to keep him, that has to be taken into account no matter how angry you are over the incident.

[stevew]

We must have some real sickly people in this country, the way they hand out these sick days. I think I have 3 months of sick time saved up or something just after a couple of years. I've never used any. I guess it's a nice insurance against major long-term illness, or something, but seriously, anyone who calls in sick more than once in a blue room is taking some "personal time", or they have Lupas or something.

My dad retired with like 200 plus sick days. I think he got a check for around 15K. Must be good to be a teacher.

[molson]

My dad retired with like 200 plus sick days. I think he got a check for around 15K. Must be good to be a teacher.

Wow, the check is nice. If I don't use 'em, I lose 'em. So I can only hope for some kind of debilitating illness or injury before I move on from here.

[Alan T]

Wow, the check is nice. If I don't use 'em, I lose 'em. So I can only hope for some kind of debilitating illness or injury before I move on from here.


I am in the same boat that I either use sick days or I lose them.. but one of the interesting developments of working from home is that even when I'm sick, I end up working most of the time these days. Unless I'm deathly ill and can't get out of bed, I pretty much can work since there are no concerns of being contagious.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/Turlos/time.jpg


So yeah, I have something like 6 weeks worth of sick time stored up (which is max for someone that has been in the company as long as I have). I guess if I come down with the black plague I'll be ok!

[Suburban Rhythm]

Does this help?

http://home.comcast.net/~mwsmart/explanation_002.jpg

[RainMaker]

Wow, the check is nice. If I don't use 'em, I lose 'em. So I can only hope for some kind of debilitating illness or injury before I move on from here.
Why not take a few 3-day weekends? You shouldn't let sick/vacation days go by unused.

[JediKooter]

The dude eats his own boogers? W...T...F...??

[Chief Rum]

The dude eats his own boogers? W...T...F...??

As opposed to eating other peoples' boogers?

[JediKooter]

As opposed to eating other peoples' boogers?

I guess on a relative scale, one would be worse than the other. :)

[JonInMiddleGA]

As opposed to eating other peoples' boogers?

Who knows? Maybe he's related Eric 'Stumpy Joe' Chiles or something.

[Ksyrup]

Not too long ago I saw something online about a guy who claims that eating boogers helps the immune system. He was like a hardcore, pro-booger-eating activist or something.

Anyway, I saw this on another board and thought of this thread.


I feel old for saying this, but what the fuck is with people these days? Especially a good portion of the younger generation. The instant gratification and "I want mine" attitude is just mind boggling.

My reason for bringing this up is, the Mrs had to fire an employee of 2 years yesterday. This girl is 21 years old and last winter, she had been given more money and responsibility. Keys to the store, managing when the Mrs and her sister weren't there, etc.

But since March, she has been late opening the store NUMEROUS times, fucks around on Facebook on store time, complains about everything and on and on. The Mrs has given her chance after chance to straighten up, but Saturday was the last straw.

We were on our way to the mountains for a nice getaway. The Mrs gets a call from another employee and they were waiting in the parking lot for this girl to show up and unlock the store. During that time, 4 customers THAT HAD APPOINTMENTS left. That's thousands of dollars that just walked away. The Mrs calls the girl (who lives 30 minutes away) and WOKE HER UP. The store should have been open 45 minutes ago and she is still sleeping! She didn't say "oh no, sorry" or anything.

So we drive back to the store so the Mrs can let the other employee in. Then we left for the mountains. The girl showed up later. Yesterday, the girl was still just ho hum about it and didn't say she was sorry. They fired her and she acted surprised, even when presented with a list of all of her offenses. Oh....and one Sunday she was hungover and she and another employee put a griddle on the counter and cooked bacon!!! It's a fucking bridal shop!! Who doesn't know that it's not OK to do that?

[lordscarlet]

Yeah, we get 10 sick days per year. It's ridiculous. I'd rather have half that number and convert it to use as personal days. The only reason I really use sick time is for doctor's appointments, or taking my dad to the doctor. I have 205 sick hours. They do rollover, so it will be good if I ever have a long-term illness, I guess.

[sterlingice]

And I wish that if people came to work when they were sick that they be docked their sick days for each day they came to work sick.

SI

[lordscarlet]

Or we could use the rest of the civilized world where you get mandated vacation time and companies understand that if you need to call off sick, you call off sick without their being "sick days."

But, that's dragging politics into a thread about people not working to their full productivity at an office job, which we all know never happened before the Internet was invented. :)

Yeah, everything that I have ever read says that people use the least sick days if they are "unlimited." My wife's company has "unlimited" sick days, and people only call in when they are sick.

And I wish that if people came to work when they were sick that they be docked their sick days for each day they came to work sick.

SI

+1

[Comey]

So what happened today, anyway?

[lordscarlet]

So what happened today, anyway?

They (or at least one of them) got so scared they showed up at work at like 4:00 yesterday. I will again defer to my manager's fb posting:

Ok, for those of you interested in how Z handled this situation. Well, Z is pretty laid back, and knew that posting this question on Facebook, along with several other messages, would be read by A & B, and would totally ruin their time of being two Ferris Douchebags out and about. This was a success, so much so that they ended up more or less freaking out and coming into work. I then let them know what is cool/not cool, and how to handle this in the future. Fact is, as for permission and I will more than likely give it, especially if it isn't often. Sneak around and get caught, I love to make a huge joke of it. Do it often and then the repercussions will be more severe.

This is my, err Z's management style.

and some other tidbits following that, an exchange between Z and A...


It's awesome that everyone assumes Person A is like the worst employee ever and doesn't do any work when he/she is "working from home." If he/she doesn't bill time for it, then why does it matter? Let alone that he/she may work from home throughout the week just to keep things "rolling smoothly" and on schedule without even billing for those hours.
‎@Person A, long winded answer to your question. When someone calls in sick but requests work from home privileges, and is granted work from home privileges, especially work from home privileges without a caveat (i.e. I can work from home today but will be unavailable from 12:00pm-3:00pm), then it is expected that the person is working from home during normal business hours and will be reachable during this time. The question of "If he/she doesn't bill time..." shouldn't even be posed, because there should not be an instance when you work without billing time. Essentially, if you perform work and do not log time for it, you are cheating yourself, your co-workers, and your company. You cheat yourself by not giving management an accurate picture of the time you spend vs the output or product you produce. You cheat your co-workers by placing them on an uneven playing field, since you and your performance will ultimately be judged against their performance, and a skewed result in your performance will make a similar level employee billing true time appear a lower level, and you hurt your company by having a hired rate of output for a lower dollar amount, making your team and company unable to justify a higher staff need.

Unless you are working at a startup or similar company, where the only thing that matters is effort, it is a much better idea for you to bill the hours you work, lest you end up skewing the platform you are judged against. If you would prefer to not be paid for all time billed, that is a another matter and something you can discuss with your supervisor. I'm sure they would be willing to negotiate a way to funnel that extra pay into some sort of party fund that can benefit the entire office.

Effort, keeping things rolling smoothly, etc, those are all admirable and greatly appreciated effects, however, that also takes your time and you should be compensated appropriately.

This may not be something you agree with at this point in your career, but speaking as someone who has seen both sides of the coin, this is a common frustration and question from younger people in the work force who have a decent work ethic. Coming from college, where the harder you work, the better you do (theoretically), it is an adjustment to fully understand this. Also, if your management is typically, they will just see the worker who gets a lot done and let the habit continue once they know, but that manager isn't helping themselves or the team the way they think they are. End result is a team overworked and underpaid once the habit has extended for enough time. Then the next result is a group of employees that resent the work they do because they aren't being paid enough for the output expected of them.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I would've thought that this would become a private discussion between the employees and the manager, but I guess they'll just keep leaving it out in the open for everybody. Entertaining.

[Comey]

Thank you. Not a bad way to handle it.

[Poli]

I can't stand Pumpy posting serious junk.

[Ksyrup]

Yeah, that's bizarre. So this is not just going around the office out in the open, but on FB in general? I guess that's "sandwich board punishment"?

[lordscarlet]

Yeah, that's bizarre. So this is not just going around the office out in the open, but on FB in general? I guess that's "sandwich board punishment"?

Everything I have pasted in quotes is from facebook, yes.

[spleen1015]

Sweet.

Hello Mr. New Hire. To read the company policies, please log into your facebook and friend Z. All of the policies are covered on their Wall posts.

[Ksyrup]

Kinda blows the "don't waste company time on the internet" edict out of the water.

[molson]

"If he/she doesn't bill time for it, then why does it matter?"

Person A sounds pretty clueless.

Is person A a hot chick?

[RainMaker]

Or we could use the rest of the civilized world where you get mandated vacation time and companies understand that if you need to call off sick, you call off sick without their being "sick days."
Unfortunately, we have too many people who take advantage of that.

The set sick days always made me laugh. I remember working at a major furniture manufacturer years ago. They gave us 3 sick days a year. I came down with a horrible virus that left me sidelined for the whole week. I'm talking 100+ temperature everyday, could barely talk, wasn't eating, just didn't even leave the bed much. They never gave me shit about it, but it shows how dumb those set days really are. Sickness is rarely something you can predict.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The set sick days always made me laugh. I remember working at a major furniture manufacturer years ago. They gave us 3 sick days a year. I came down with a horrible virus that left me sidelined for the whole week. I'm talking 100+ temperature everyday, could barely talk, wasn't eating, just didn't even leave the bed much. They never gave me shit about it, but it shows how dumb those set days really are. Sickness is rarely something you can predict.

I never thought of them as any attempt to predict anything though, just a company telling you up front how many days they're willing to pay you for if you get sick.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Kinda blows the "don't waste company time on the internet" edict out of the water.

Heh, those can get a little weird anyway. Case in a point a client of ours has a fairly strict "no Facebook other than on your lunch hour" policy internally, to the point that they've started warning people that they're going to drop the hammer on violators & Big Brother Is Definitely Watching You emails.

Problem is that there's at least a half dozen people whose job responsibilities include at least some social media, but those folks were warned just as harshly.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I can't stand Pumpy posting serious junk.
Heel turn. Slow heel turn.

[EagleFan]

Didn't read the entire thread but I think the manager crossed the line with his FB post. Airing out a company situation like that on FB. Just because he cales them Person A and Person B doesn't mean a thing. It's pretty easy to figure out who he is talking about if you are an employee there and read his post.

A and B should get a warning but by no means should they be fired; unless this is, or has been, a continual problem.

Personally, I think that what the manager may have done enough to get his ass fired.

[Groundhog]

Yeah, we get 10 sick days per year. It's ridiculous. I'd rather have half that number and convert it to use as personal days. The only reason I really use sick time is for doctor's appointments, or taking my dad to the doctor. I have 205 sick hours. They do rollover, so it will be good if I ever have a long-term illness, I guess.

Yah, I've accrued something like 58 sick days. I guess if I'm ever struck down by some illness it will be great, but it's not like I get them paid out when I leave.

[lordscarlet]

Yah, I've accrued something like 58 sick days. I guess if I'm ever struck down by some illness it will be great, but it's not like I get them paid out when I leave.

I think that is one of the keys. We get paid out all of our vacation. By giving us "sick" time they can make us feel like we get more days off without getting paid out. Having said that, we have a very generous pay-out setup compared to many people that have "use it or lose it" vacation time.

[RainMaker]

Yah, I've accrued something like 58 sick days. I guess if I'm ever struck down by some illness it will be great, but it's not like I get them paid out when I leave.
Why wouldn't you use them? Take some 3-day weekends, rest up after a long weekend. I don't get why you guys let them accrue like that.

[lordscarlet]

Why wouldn't you use them? Take some 3-day weekends, rest up after a long weekend. I don't get why you guys let them accrue like that.

Because they're sick days, not vacation days.

[Alan T]

Because they're sick days, not vacation days.


:+1:

I don't think I've ever used a sick day as a personal day. I always figured that personal days are perfect for those three day vacations. I guess having worked for my company since the 1990s, I don't really feel starved for vacation time anyways though.

[molson]

It's not fun (or easy) to call your boss and lie. I'd rather go to work.

[Chief Rum]

Because they're sick days, not vacation days.

My company moved to considering all such days (vacation and sick days) as simply PTO days. Before, we got our alloted vacation time (based on time with company), five sicks days and one personal day.

Now we simply get 6 automatic PTO days plus our vacation alottment's worth of PTO days every year.

No need to be all sneaky with it when we call out. Try to schedule things in advance where possible, of course, but if we need to call in on short notice we can (whether we're sick or the car broke down or a family emergency or even just because I need a day off).

There's a cap on the hours of course, but we do get paid out if we leave the company with a share of days in the bank.

[wade moore]

I'm lucky - we get ours combined as well - and we get 23 days a year.

Ah, working for a British owned company in the states has its pluses ;).

[lordscarlet]

My company moved to considering all such days (vacation and sick days) as simply PTO days. Before, we got our alloted vacation time (based on time with company), five sicks days and one personal day.

Now we simply get 6 automatic PTO days plus our vacation alottment's worth of PTO days every year.

No need to be all sneaky with it when we call out. Try to schedule things in advance where possible, of course, but if we need to call in on short notice we can (whether we're sick or the car broke down or a family emergency or even just because I need a day off).

There's a cap on the hours of course, but we do get paid out if we leave the company with a share of days in the bank.

I would be all for that, but ours are designated specifically as sick and vacation time.

[heybrad]

Ah, working for a British owned company in the states has its pluses ;).
Hey, I work for the Brits as well and having worked for them for a while, my vacation time is spectacular.

[lordscarlet]

hey, brad!

[RainMaker]

Because they're sick days, not vacation days.
But they are given to you, without penalty. So every day that you don't use, you've given them a free day of work.

[Philliesfan980]

Z needs to tell A & B that they both owe Z one favor, at any time, at any place, of Z's request. Or else it's just malfeasance for malfeasance's sake.

[wade moore]

But they are given to you, without penalty. So every day that you don't use, you've given them a free day of work.
I'm glad you don't work for me.

[lordscarlet]

But they are given to you, without penalty. So every day that you don't use, you've given them a free day of work.

No, they are not just given to you. Read your employee manual and see what those days are intended for. Vacation is not one of them. The reason you have Vacation days (or personal days) is so that they can be requested and approved and so that your manager/team can plan around your absence.