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Airhog
04-18-2003, 01:11 PM
Would it be a good idea to upgrade my stadium? I upgraded it once when I started to 10k, now my supporters are 737, and Im selling out. Im just breaking even and im hovering right around the 0 dollar mark. Im selling an Inad keeper and that will bring in at least 70k... would the extra income and expense be worth it? Oh and im looking at finishing in the middle of the pack in V

bbor
04-18-2003, 01:17 PM
How many seats do you have?

Airhog
04-18-2003, 01:20 PM
oops I knew I forgot something.

Right now I have 10k seats, im looking at expanding another 4.8k or something close to that

The Afoci
04-18-2003, 01:35 PM
I would add more than just 4.8k. Try to get bigger chunks because you pay 30k no matter how many seats you add. If you are probably going to win most of your games add even more.

MylesKnight
04-18-2003, 01:45 PM
AigHog, have you checked out the Hattrick Arena Sizer (http://www.databased.at/hattrick/pages_en/t_arenasizerm_en.asp)?

It seems to be a decent enough tool to use in assisting you with this issue.. I received the link recently from some other Hattrick related thread, can't remember the exact one.. Thanks again to whomever it was who posted the link previously..

Airhog
04-18-2003, 01:45 PM
but therin lies the problem. Im just barely keeping my team from losing money every week. Im probably going to win about 10 league games this year. And im selling out my stadium now. another 5 thousand seats would increase my stadium revenue by about 50%

HornedFrog Purple
04-18-2003, 02:00 PM
Hmmm my rule of thumb is never expand less than 5000 seats. I just expanded to 23000 something. In the long run doing less than 5000 isnt worth it. You will want to expand again before you reap the benefits of expanding less than 5000.

But I suck.

MylesKnight
04-18-2003, 02:04 PM
Let me ask a related question, what if you've got a Stadium that seats 7K (the initial Stadium Size), but in your most recent Home League Match you didn't even reach the 4K mark in Attendance?

How long do you need to wait before taking a look into expanding and if you have a Franchise that more than likely is going to struggle, and lose, for a while, is it smart to even spend the $$ to expand?

I really don't need the cost of a 12 or 14K Seat Stadium that looks empty when only 4 or 5K show up, if I'm lucky..

How much do Wins & Losses play into this whole Stadium Issue Equation?

BishopMVP
04-18-2003, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by Airhog
Im selling an Inad keeper and that will bring in at least 70k...

Did you find a newbie to rip off? If not, don't expect 70k - 15-20k is more like it. If you are going to expand, I also say go bigger. I am expanding from 7-21,000, probably a bigger expansion than you would want, but much better than expanding and just gaining 5,000-10,000 in additional income a game.

DataKing
04-18-2003, 02:28 PM
The general rule of thumb for stadium size is as follows (this is a multiplier applied to your number of supporters):

15x - If you're losing most of the time.
20x - If you're winning your fair share of matches.
25x - If you're winning most of your matches.

With that said, there are a large number of variables where attendance is concerned. All of the following can modify your attendance in a given week:

1. Weather
2. Current win/loss streak
3. Supporter attitude (tied to #2)
4. Current series rank of your opponent (people would rather see you play against the top team, than the cellar-dweller)
5. Presence or lack thereof of cheerleaders.

Just kidding about the last one. ;)

I hope this helps.

MylesKnight
04-18-2003, 02:36 PM
Well that definitely is a concern to me and my Franchise, DK.

For our last match, where we drew less than 4K, we had arguably the best team in our League (V.114) in town, and the weather couldn't have been nicer. The one thing we did have going against us was a 2 Match Losing Streak, but we're only talking 2 Matches here.. not 7 or 10 or something "Clipper-Like".

I'd hate to have seen the Attendance if one of the fellow bottom-feeders of V.114 would've showed up instead of who did.

rexalllsc
04-18-2003, 03:12 PM
I'm playing away for my next 3 games, so I decided now is the best time for construction...moving from 10,000 seats to 18,550.

All of my home league games so far have been sellouts @ 7k and 10k, so I'm sure I'll pull some nice crowds...

Airhog
04-18-2003, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by BishopMVP
Did you find a newbie to rip off? If not, don't expect 70k - 15-20k is more like it. If you are going to expand, I also say go bigger. I am expanding from 7-21,000, probably a bigger expansion than you would want, but much better than expanding and just gaining 5,000-10,000 in additional income a game.

I Guess so, the bidding is already up to 70k :D

Airhog
04-18-2003, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by MylesKnight
AigHog, have you checked out the Hattrick Arena Sizer (http://www.databased.at/hattrick/pages_en/t_arenasizerm_en.asp)?

It seems to be a decent enough tool to use in assisting you with this issue.. I received the link recently from some other Hattrick related thread, can't remember the exact one.. Thanks again to whomever it was who posted the link previously..

yeah It says I should upgrade between 14k and 22k seats, but I couldnt afford 190k right now, and Im not sure If I want to go deeper into debt...

Btw 190k would be how much it would cost to upgrade and add about 8000 seats.

DataKing
04-18-2003, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by MylesKnight
Well that definitely is a concern to me and my Franchise, DK.

For our last match, where we drew less than 4K, we had arguably the best team in our League (V.114) in town, and the weather couldn't have been nicer. The one thing we did have going against us was a 2 Match Losing Streak, but we're only talking 2 Matches here.. not 7 or 10 or something "Clipper-Like".

I'd hate to have seen the Attendance if one of the fellow bottom-feeders of V.114 would've showed up instead of who did.

Hmm...this looks odd. I looked over the match and some other information, and I can't see any good reason for you to draw only around 50% of capacity.

How many supporters do you have, and what was their attitude prior to the match? That's the only thing I can think of that would affect it so much, unless you were just unlucky.

I really don't know how much of an impact a low supporter attitude can have, as I've never had a 2 game losing streak to contend with (not bragging, just explaining).

MylesKnight
04-18-2003, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by DataKing
Hmm...this looks odd. I looked over the match and some other information, and I can't see any good reason for you to draw only around 50% of capacity.

How many supporters do you have, and what was their attitude prior to the match? That's the only thing I can think of that would affect it so much, unless you were just unlucky.

I really don't know how much of an impact a low supporter attitude can have, as I've never had a 2 game losing streak to contend with (not bragging, just explaining).

Another weird thing about this was that I hosted a 2nd Round US Cup Match just a few days before this Match and drew a lot more, I believe somewhere in the 5-6K Match if I remember correctly (don't have the info right in front of me).

Also, if I remember correctly my Supporter Attitude was Calm I believe, with my Sponsors in that same range as well. I know the team was a bit down because I had MOTS my League Opener the previous week as I was looking to get off to a winning start in V.114... I still lost, on the road to a middle of the pack League Opponent, 2-0.

As for supporters, I started right around 500 and am now at 510.

Is it possible that certain areas of the country may draw better than others? I know I'm fishing here, but I'd like to know where my Attendance discrepency is coming from, in comparison to a lot of other FOFC Hattricker Newbies.

As for Stadium Expansion, I think that will have to go on the olde' Backburner for a while, although it would be nice to have a few Club Seats/Luxury Boxes for the Sponsors..

DataKing
04-18-2003, 04:18 PM
I've never heard anything to reflect the idea that certain areas of the country draw better than others. If something like that were in the game, those regions with lower draws would rapidly become vacant as managers moved their teams to more populous areas.

I'd suggest giving it another home match or two before you allowed yourself to really get concerned about it. It's entirely possible that you just had a low draw for that match for some inexplicable reason (i.e., bad luck). If your home attendance for league matches continues to be so low, then allow yourself to be concerned.

dacman
04-18-2003, 04:35 PM
Someone posted the idea that regions may affect attendence in HT conferences probably 2-3 weeks ago and one of the GM's was adament that regions have absolutely NO effect on attendance.

My very first league game at home (sponsers/supporters reset with new ownership) with 540 supporters I drew 4,776 in the rain. 2 weeks later with 572 supporters I drew 6,954 (weather = pretty good). I'm guessing it just takes a while for the attendance to "normalize" with a new team.

If you can even just go .500, I think you'll be looking at a stadium upgrade by seasons end for sure.

NAIWF
04-21-2003, 02:58 PM
I like to gamble on things working out in the long run, so I upgraded my stadium from 7,000 to 13,250 after my first game (5-0 loss), since then I had a 2-0 cup win against a D4 team, in the rain I got just over 4900 fans. Yesterday it was an all day shower, so just over 4000 showed up against a top team in the league. My arena expansion finally went through today and I'm facing a D2.1 team in the cup game this week at home. With 553 supporters and a loss/win/tie form coming in should I expect a crowd of at least 8,000 assuming it doesn't rain again?

team # 71399

Qwikshot
04-21-2003, 04:45 PM
Isn't it true that if you expand and it's still under construction when you are playing a home game that it will fill to the new capacity?!? I need to know if I want to expand or not.

Also...I'm interested in expanding my stadium...I've got the initial 7k...I've lost twice but I still have a good supporter status, in fact I had 8 sign up!!! So I'm at 602 members now...

Here's the deal...I'm going to be around 190 to 200k in debt...at the oft chance I can expand I would expand to 10k seats or 11k seats...would it be worth the risk? I'd be close to the 400k mark, but I've got talent I could sell, or should I wait until I'm at 0 debt?!?

I feel the other teams in my league (save the other new one) are killing me because of stadium profit...

I also think that the 2nd thing you do after dumping 20k into the youth market is to expand your stadium...then hit the market.

So should I bite the bullet and expand...or struggle to generate cash until I hit the youth pull jackpot or train a star?!?

DataKing
04-21-2003, 05:18 PM
The decision is yours regarding the debt, naturally, but remember that the interest payment on debt is 5%. So if you're $400,000 in the whole, you're paying $20,000 per week just in interest payments (less with an economist).

If you decide to go further into debt, make sure that you have a solid plan to get back out again, and don't rely on the Youth Pull Lottery.

vex
04-22-2003, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by Qwikshot
Isn't it true that if you expand and it's still under construction when you are playing a home game that it will fill to the new capacity?!? I need to know if I want to expand or not.



I've seen this happen. BUT, I've tried this twice, even for my league match this past Sunday and I have only gotten my capacity before expansion. I'm pretty sure I would have filled out my 23,000 stadia instead of what I got, my current 15,200.