College football - Week 10

[Noop]

Georgia Tech vs. Virgina Tech tonight

This should be an interesting game and by interesting I mean Virgina Tech should steamroll GT.

[Matthean]

It's all about 'Bama vs. LSU for me.

Michigan also tries to decide how much it wants to limp towards the end of the season. 7-5 to me was the breaking point, so a loss here pretty much locks in a 6-6 season.

[RomaGoth]

Michigan also tries to decide how much it wants to limp towards the end of the season. 7-5 to me was the breaking point, so a loss here pretty much locks in a 6-6 season.

And hopefully the end of the ridiculous RR era.

[JPhillips]

Without a big win at OSU I don't see how RR keeps his job after the PSU debacle.

[DeToxRox]

This is depressing, but with JT Floyd going down for the season this is Michigan's depth chart in the secondary:

RCB
Rogers (Never played before this year)
True freshman Terrence Talbott
True freshman Cullen Christian

LCB
True freshman Courtney Avery
TBD – Some Walk-on/Talbott/Christian

FS
True freshman Ray Vinopal
True freshman Carvin Johnson

Hybrid
Redshirt freshman Cam Gordon OR
Redshirt freshman Thomas Gordon
Walk-on Simmons

SS
Former Walk-on Kovacs
True freshman Marvin Robinson

[Matthean]

This is depressing, but with JT Floyd going down for the season this is Michigan's depth chart in the secondary:

RCB
Rogers (Never played before this year)
True freshman Terrence Talbott
True freshman Cullen Christian

LCB
True freshman Courtney Avery
TBD – Some Walk-on/Talbott/Christian

FS
True freshman Ray Vinopal
True freshman Carvin Johnson

Hybrid
Redshirt freshman Cam Gordon OR
Redshirt freshman Thomas Gordon
Walk-on Simmons

SS
Former Walk-on Kovacs
True freshman Marvin Robinson

And the lack of sophomores and juniors is in vast part to blame due to recruiting. 'Bama lost almost two whole squads in their defense and can paste together something at least respectable. Unless they get JR. College transfers, Michigan's backfield will be filled with sophomores and freshmen and the cry of being so young will ring out again. As it stands, Michigan only has two DB recruits for next year and only one is a 4 star.

[DeToxRox]

And the lack of sophomores and juniors is in vast part to blame due to recruiting. 'Bama lost almost two whole squads in their defense and can paste together something at least respectable. Unless they get JR. College transfers, Michigan's backfield will be filled with sophomores and freshmen and the cry of being so young will ring out again. As it stands, Michigan only has two DB recruits for next year and only one is a 4 star.

Switching from the 3-4 we used last year was just ridiculous. Yes it would have put more pressure on the DB's but at least it would have at least opened up more avenues to pressure the QB.

The 3-3-5 can only work if you are constantly blitzing guys but we are playing a 3-3-5 soft zone all game which is the worst idea ever. It's just a license to gash us.

[Matthean]

I can't even being to express how asinine I think a 3-3-5 defense is for a base defense. You can't stop the run and you can't get any pressure on the QB. Awesome.

[Atocep]

Switching from the 3-4 we used last year was just ridiculous. Yes it would have put more pressure on the DB's but at least it would have at least opened up more avenues to pressure the QB.

The 3-3-5 can only work if you are constantly blitzing guys but we are playing a 3-3-5 soft zone all game which is the worst idea ever. It's just a license to gash us.

Considering how popular the spread is in college football right now I'm surprised the 3-3-5 hasn't caught on more. It gives you so much flexibility in coverage and with blitzes while allowing you to remain strong against the run by bringing up one of the safeties.

Lack of blitzing would definitely be a problem though. Add to that the soft coverage Gibby teaches and it's going to become even more of an issue. I remember WVU fans constantly bitching about our DBs playing 10 yards off of receivers at all times. Down and distance didn't matter. It's the Gibby way.

I don't get the switch this year either. Rich obviously knew heading into this season that he was on the hot seat and he decides it's a good idea to switch defensive schemes?

[Swaggs]

With the right personnel, the 3-3-5 is pretty much the same as a 3-4 front.

The only difference is that you essentially need two good strong safeties to split time as an extra outside linebacker (see Robert Sands and Sidney Glover currently at WVU). It isn't like the defense calls for teams to drop 5 DBs back into coverage every time.

Michigan's problem (and WVU's during Rod's tenure) on defense, as we have discussed, is that he doesn't focus on it in recruiting and would rather see how athletes work out at receiver or running back (or ever quarterback) and, if they don't fit in there, move them over to defense. Team that with a defensive backs coach that has never shown the ability to teach the position and you have a lot of toast in the secondary.

He also didn't seem to put much emphasis on recruiting on the defensive line while at WVU. I thought he would do much better at getting good linemen and ends at Michigan (and he may be, I haven't followed closesly).

[Matthean]

NCAA adds third probation year for Michigan - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5764611)

Michigan gets a slap on the wrist by having a 3rd year of probation added on.

[RainMaker]

Cam Newton offered for cash in exchange for signing letter of intent, ex-Mississippi State quarterback said - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5765214)

This will be an interesting one. I'll guess the NCAA tries to sweep it under the rug. Yahoo! Sports pulls up a ton of dirt and buries the school. NCAA comes in years later because of all the pressure and has to do something like with USC.

[MrBug708]

And the lack of sophomores and juniors is in vast part to blame due to recruiting. 'Bama lost almost two whole squads in their defense and can paste together something at least respectable. Unless they get JR. College transfers, Michigan's backfield will be filled with sophomores and freshmen and the cry of being so young will ring out again. As it stands, Michigan only has two DB recruits for next year and only one is a 4 star.

Problem is that any coach going up against Michigan for a DB will say that you won't see the field for four years

[CU Tiger]

Cam Newton offered for cash in exchange for signing letter of intent, ex-Mississippi State quarterback said - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5765214)

This will be an interesting one. I'll guess the NCAA tries to sweep it under the rug. Yahoo! Sports pulls up a ton of dirt and buries the school. NCAA comes in years later because of all the pressure and has to do something like with USC.


Am I the only one that finds this quote rather shocking, coming from a "preacher"?
I'm just trying to protect my son's interests, because he's fought very hard to get back where he is," Cecil Newton said. "It's a hell of a fight when people give up on you and think they'll never see you or hear from you again.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Am I the only one that finds this quote rather shocking, coming from a "preacher"?

That's "bishop" IIRC.

And no, you weren't the only one who had an elevated eyebrow after reading it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

So GT leads VT 14-7 at the half in Blacksburg ... and Nesbitt will miss the 2nd half, apparently some sort of arm injury suffered while trying to make a tackle.

[bronconick]

Does Nesbitt really need his arm? It's not like he can throw with it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Does Nesbitt really need his arm? It's not like he can throw with it.

a) I can only assume it hampers his ability to either hold onto the ball or pitch it
and
b) How's he supposed to tackle with one arm after throwing a pick?

[MJ4H]

lol at b

[JonInMiddleGA]

Okay, I'm not watching the game, just tracking it online.

Please tell me that, with the defense playing well for the first time all season, we did NOT just go for it on 4th & 2 at the Hokies 45.

[Logan]

It wasn't even close either.

[Matthean]

Holy Zion Center of Deliverance is not the only church Cecil Newton is involved in overseeing. Cam Newton told ESPN.com last month that his dad is a bishop to five churches in Georgia.

I also don't get him being a bishop for 5 different churches.

[JonInMiddleGA]

That might have been my last straw with CPJ.

Not being able to recruit for shit is one thing.
Being that fucking dumb given those circumstances is another entirely.

[JonInMiddleGA]

See, that's life as a GT fan. Almost miraculously the Jackets score & tie it up with the backup QB ... and VT runs the KO back for a TD.

[Galaxy]

Yay! Lets rush the field for beating an unranked team!

[digamma]

Nesbitt broke his arm and is out for the season. Thank you for 3 and a half great seasons. One of my all time favorite Jackets for his heart and drive.

[tarcone]

Thats too bad. Good luck in the pros.

[bronconick]

It's not an ACC game unless someone's turning the ball over on the last drive.

[Recoil]

Thats too bad. Good luck in the pros.

Good luck being a bitch, you nobody piece of shit. But I suppose theres no need for luck when it comes so naturally.

[Celeval]

Nesbitt broke his arm and is out for the season. Thank you for 3 and a half great seasons. One of my all time favorite Jackets for his heart and drive.

I feel the same - hell of a player. He set the record for most rushing yards by a QB in the ACC (Woody Dantzler) earlier this game; glad that happened before the injury.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Nesbitt broke his arm and is out for the season.

I feared as much, otherwise he would have been out there.

Glad he got the QB rushing record before the injury. The inexplicable passing woes that developed during his career aside, he was at least a guy that you knew feared nothing & would give you everything he had.

[RainMaker]

That's too bad, he was fun to watch.

Speaking of Woody Dantzler, whatever happened to him? Thought he made an NFL roster a few years back.

[CU Tiger]

That's too bad, he was fun to watch.

Speaking of Woody Dantzler, whatever happened to him? Thought he made an NFL roster a few years back.

He spent a few years bouncing between the Cowboys and Falcons and did a couple stints with each.

Spent 2 years in Arena Ball.

Then came back home to SC and became a HS coach. He is a great dude, and I still run into him about every 3-4 months through some mutual friends.

I find it odd how much GT celebrated him breaking that record...#1 wasn't an option QB...and if we start adding total passing yards into the equation it isn't even close.

[digamma]

I find it odd how much GT celebrated him breaking that record...#1 wasn't an option QB...and if we start adding total passing yards into the equation it isn't even close.

Not really sure what your point is. He got hurt one quarter after breaking Dantzler's record, so I'm not sure how much celebrating went on.

And though Dantzler wasn't an "option" quarterback, he had more than 10 rushing attempts in 32 of his 38 games that he started and averaged more than 15 rushing attempts a game. So while not an option QB, he was certainly a rushing QB. Trust me, I still remember back-up LB Sterling Green trying to chase him down in 2001.

Dantzler was a fantastic player, no doubt. I would hope you feel the same about Joshua--lord knows you saw him play enough.

[Easy Mac]

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/583513/itsawonderfulheist_medium.gif

[Greyroofoo]

Good luck being a bitch, you nobody piece of shit. But I suppose theres no need for luck when it comes so naturally.

IBTL!

[CU Tiger]

Not really sure what your point is. He got hurt one quarter after breaking Dantzler's record, so I'm not sure how much celebrating went on.

And though Dantzler wasn't an "option" quarterback, he had more than 10 rushing attempts in 32 of his 38 games that he started and averaged more than 15 rushing attempts a game. So while not an option QB, he was certainly a rushing QB. Trust me, I still remember back-up LB Sterling Green trying to chase him down in 2001.

Dantzler was a fantastic player, no doubt. I would hope you feel the same about Joshua--lord knows you saw him play enough.


The talk was really more before the week we played, all we heard was how h was going to break the record in Death Valley and celebrate on the field blah blah blah.

Dantzler had a number of rushes many because he flushed quickly from the pocket, in addition to the zone read stuff.

[digamma]

The talk was really more before the week we played, all we heard was how h was going to break the record in Death Valley and celebrate on the field blah blah blah.

Dantzler had a number of rushes many because he flushed quickly from the pocket, in addition to the zone read stuff.

Again, not sure where you're pulling that from, local yahoos on sports radio maybe? I searched the Hive and the Ga Tech rivals site and can't find one mention of Tech fans crowing about the record prior to the Clemson game. In fact, the only quote I can find about is by Dabo saying Nesbitt would have to "get those yards elsewhere."

But, I can see how it is hard for you to praise a guy who beat you in 3 of the 4 games he started and 4 out of 5 of the games he played (your current bragging rights notwithstanding).

[CU Tiger]

Again, not sure where you're pulling that from, local yahoos on sports radio maybe? I searched the Hive and the Ga Tech rivals site and can't find one mention of Tech fans crowing about the record prior to the Clemson game. In fact, the only quote I can find about is by Dabo saying Nesbitt would have to "get those yards elsewhere."

But, I can see how it is hard for you to praise a guy who beat you in 3 of the 4 games he started and 4 out of 5 of the games he played (your current bragging rights notwithstanding).


He didn't beat me, per se I was 2-0 against GT ;)

nah we had several jacket fans come onto Clemson's board the week of the game talking shiat....nothing too major.

Its kinda funny every time I go to Atlanta its a decent crowd, every GT fan that comes up to Clemson seems to be a JA, by rule.

[bob]

Ok, quick question. All the stuff I've seen about Newton has been either statements that Auburn has done nothing wrong or commentators saying I can't believe Auburn would do that blah blah blah. So for argument's sake, let's say Auburn University and employees did nothing wrong.

But lets say a booster gave the kid and his family money, and Auburn had no clue. What would happen to Auburn and their season at this point?

[Greyroofoo]

Ok, quick question. All the stuff I've seen about Newton has been either statements that Auburn has done nothing wrong or commentators saying I can't believe Auburn would do that blah blah blah. So for argument's sake, let's say Auburn University and employees did nothing wrong.

But lets say a booster gave the kid and his family money, and Auburn had no clue. What would happen to Auburn and their season at this point?

Well did the NCAA get their own cut?

[bhlloy]

I don't see anyway that Newton wouldn't be retroactively ineligible and they wouldn't forfeit those wins. If any of this is true, that's probably best case scenario for Auburn if they knew nothing about it (and sounds like Auburn is either pretty clean or they are doing a really nice job of controlling the media)

Now if they continue to play him when the smoking gun is there, I don't know if that opens them up to further sanctions from the NCAA. They might be wise to sit him this weekend as they probably won't need him to pull out the W.

[DeToxRox]

Ok, quick question. All the stuff I've seen about Newton has been either statements that Auburn has done nothing wrong or commentators saying I can't believe Auburn would do that blah blah blah. So for argument's sake, let's say Auburn University and employees did nothing wrong.

But lets say a booster gave the kid and his family money, and Auburn had no clue. What would happen to Auburn and their season at this point?

See: Five, Fab

[dawgfan]

Ok, quick question. All the stuff I've seen about Newton has been either statements that Auburn has done nothing wrong or commentators saying I can't believe Auburn would do that blah blah blah. So for argument's sake, let's say Auburn University and employees did nothing wrong.

But lets say a booster gave the kid and his family money, and Auburn had no clue. What would happen to Auburn and their season at this point?
Athletic departments are still responsible for boosters. When the NCAA hammered the Washington football program in '93, they noted that the coaches hadn't broken any rules, but it was still "lack of institutional control" by the athletic department for not monitoring what their boosters were doing.

It's obviously worse if the coaches or administrators are breaking rules, but Auburn could still get hit with sanctions if it turns out boosters broke rules to get Newton.

[Noop]

Auburn could be the first domino to fall exposing FBS recruiting games.

[Ksyrup]

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/583513/itsawonderfulheist_medium.gif

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/2503/makemoneywithauburn.gif

[RainMaker]

He spent a few years bouncing between the Cowboys and Falcons and did a couple stints with each.

Spent 2 years in Arena Ball.

Then came back home to SC and became a HS coach. He is a great dude, and I still run into him about every 3-4 months through some mutual friends.

I find it odd how much GT celebrated him breaking that record...#1 wasn't an option QB...and if we start adding total passing yards into the equation it isn't even close.
I used him as my backup QB in Madden at one point I believe.

[Wolfpack]

Auburn could be the first domino to fall exposing FBS recruiting games.

What about that mushroom cloud that nearly vaporized the UNC program before the season began? It also managed to get a lot of fingers pointed at various SEC players while they were at it. I think without that mess being touched off with Marvin Austin's tweet, almost none of what's happened since--the UNC assistant coach on the take, the SI article about the blatant agent money games, and now Cam Newton (whether the last one is true or not)--would have come to light.

I suppose if you want to get really picky about it, you could argue the that the near-miss on the death penalty USC got for the Reggie Bush case made everyone more sensitive to the money issues and then Marvin made his tweet in just such an environment, sort of like lighting a match in a coal mine.

[CU Tiger]

I think the summer conference realignment talk had more to do with this than anyone is willing to admit. I think 4 mega conferences is the scariest thing the NCAA can imagine as they would lose much of their leverage and the BCS could be exposed for the sham it is.

Based on this, I see all the sudden investigations as,"Oh yeah, try to re-align against our will, we will show you."

[RainMaker]

I think the summer conference realignment talk had more to do with this than anyone is willing to admit. I think 4 mega conferences is the scariest thing the NCAA can imagine as they would lose much of their leverage and the BCS could be exposed for the sham it is.

Based on this, I see all the sudden investigations as,"Oh yeah, try to re-align against our will, we will show you."

The BCS has already been exposed as a sham. I don't know how mega-conferences could hurt its integrity anymore. I also don't think this is intentional. It's just a different age where information can be disseminated much faster. And we have a media that piggybacks on stories and runs them into the ground. Once they smell blood, they keep going in for more. Whether it's PEDs in baseball, concussions in football, or illegal activity in college sports.

[bronconick]

I have to agree that it's more that the information's out there. Nowadays, you see people get canned and disciplined for saying stupid things on facebook and twitter. High school and college kids fill their photos with pictures of them drunk and doing drugs, somehow having the disconnect between that and what they'll be doing post-college. Why would college football players getting "ineligible money" be any different? The only difference is that it wasn't easily available for public consumption in 1990 or 2000.

[Noop]

What about that mushroom cloud that nearly vaporized the UNC program before the season began? It also managed to get a lot of fingers pointed at various SEC players while they were at it. I think without that mess being touched off with Marvin Austin's tweet, almost none of what's happened since--the UNC assistant coach on the take, the SI article about the blatant agent money games, and now Cam Newton (whether the last one is true or not)--would have come to light.

I suppose if you want to get really picky about it, you could argue the that the near-miss on the death penalty USC got for the Reggie Bush case made everyone more sensitive to the money issues and then Marvin made his tweet in just such an environment, sort of like lighting a match in a coal mine.

I think Auburn if the NCAA really investigates them will be the reason why recruiting could completely change. Corey Lemonier posted on facebook after signing day a picture of his brand new yellow corvette. Among those who follow recruiting closely they believe that Auburn brought its last recruiting class because they were afraid of Bama, who might be the dirtiest of them all.

I know this hard for some people to believe but every team pays for a big time recruit. The difference between the Bamas, Auburns, LSUs and the rest of the country is everyone else does it for two or three players a cycle while the SEC does it for every player they sign.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I know this hard for some people to believe but every team pays for a big time recruit. The difference between the Bamas, Auburns, LSUs and the rest of the country is everyone else does it for two or three players a cycle while the SEC does it for every player they sign.

I mentioned it before and I'll mention it again. Coach Anderson at Mizzou said he would never return to coaching in the SEC region because the level of dirty recruiting was at an exponential level when compared to other regions. I'm sure there's some funny business going on all around, but the SEC schools have made it an art.

[DeToxRox]

Anyone watching Michigan/Illinois? If so, why?

This is the worst football game ever. If anyone is watching this besides fans of the respective teams they are gluttons for punishment.

[Bigsmooth]

Anyone watching Michigan/Illinois? If so, why?

This is the worst football game ever. If anyone is watching this besides fans of the respective teams they are gluttons for punishment.
I've got it on one of my TV's, no sound though. I'm sure you liked that 60 yard run by the Illini? Nice tackling on that one, wow.

[DeToxRox]

I've got it on one of my TV's, no sound though. I'm sure you liked that 60 yard run by the Illini? Nice tackling on that one, wow.

I have become numb to defense.

[DeToxRox]

Not sure how legit this is but on Wikipedia it says the record for receiving yards in a game at Michigan is 197. Roy Roundtree has 192 in the first half.

[Bigsmooth]

Oh chit, great play by Hemingway. At least their offense is fun to watch.

[DeToxRox]

Oh chit, great play by Hemingway. At least their offense is fun to watch.

Yep. If I believed RR could put his ego aside and hire a totally new defensive staff and let them do their thing i'd be fine with him staying here but I don't see it.

John Navarre's record for 389 yards in a game is in jeopardy at this rate. Denard is already at 262.

[mauchow]

Jeez, one of the worst first halves of Wisconsin football I've seen.

Purdue playing well and it could be worse but it also could be favoring the Badgers too. Such a strange game so far. I've no doubt that the Badgers still win and win easily but they need to win by more than one score. Let's hope for some better defense in the second half.

[Matthean]

Can the announcers stop talking about Illinois's defense considering they get posted for 28 in a half? Oh, 56 points in a half. Ladies and gentlemen. It's Michigan football! :lol:

[Atocep]

Anyone watching Michigan/Illinois? If so, why?

This is the worst football game ever. If anyone is watching this besides fans of the respective teams they are gluttons for punishment.

Only game on here this early.

Watching these two defenses is painful though. They're making WAC defenses from the 90s look like the steel curtain.

[DeToxRox]

Gibby just called his best play ever on that reverse. He's officially peaked.

[RomaGoth]

Anyone watching Michigan/Illinois? If so, why?

This is the worst football game ever. If anyone is watching this besides fans of the respective teams they are gluttons for punishment.

What an embarrassment this defense is.....:eek:

[Matthean]

62 total points in a half. Clearly RR missed his calling as a basketball coach.

[Matthean]

Purdue is up 10-6 versus Wisconsin and Iowa is tied 6-6 with Indiana. Looks like a couple teams aren't really trying to win a conference title.

[bronconick]

Someone needs to go attach a turbine to Bo's grave.

[Bigsmooth]

Blackmon for OK State is such a beast, only a SOPH too. Just a man amongst boys out there.

[Logan]

Very glad I get CBS College Sports HD.

[Matthean]

2nd time I've heard the phrase "student body tryout" describing Michigan players.

[Matthean]

RR channeling Mike Shanahan. Subs in Forcier and he turns it over on the first play.

[mauchow]

Okie dokely, my pre-game prediction of a 41-13 Badgers win is looking a lot more possible now.

[mauchow]

Iowa scores with under three to play quite easily leaving Indiana plenty of time to go down the field themselves.. they had their opportunities getting into or close to the red zone.. Perfect throw by the QB into the endzone and the wide open WR dropped one of the easiest hand catches to make to preserve the Iowa victory. How lucky is Iowa..

[Matthean]

Iowa scores with under three to play quite easily leaving Indiana plenty of time to go down the field themselves.. they had their opportunities getting into or close to the red zone.. Perfect throw by the QB into the endzone and the wide open WR dropped one of the easiest hand catches to make to preserve the Iowa victory. How lucky is Iowa..

Typical complete mail in job on the road after two big games at home.

[SirFozzie]

Wow, Barn Burner between Virginia and Duke, Virginia, Virginia just took the lead 48-47 with 2:26 to play.

[Greyroofoo]

Vanderbilt certainly isn't a credit to SEC football.

[mauchow]

All right, what a great set of 2:30 games! Time to make the hole in my coach sink that much deeper!

[SirFozzie]

wow. A running play with :45 or so to go, and the RB goes 35 yards to put Duke ahead of them.

[Matthean]

Wow, Barn Burner between Virginia and Duke, Virginia, Virginia just took the lead 48-47 with 2:26 to play.

Amateurs. 52-52 Ill.-Mich. :lol:

[SirFozzie]

Heh.. Duke gets the 2 point conversion, 55-48!

Virginia has :40 and all three time outs.

[kingfc22]

Michigan's defense is a total JOKE! I mean wow week after week.

[Matthean]

Heh.. Duke gets the 2 point conversion, 55-48!

Virginia has :40 and all three time outs.

Michigan's D gets embarrassed on the same exact play and now it's 59-52.

EDIT: 59-59.

[mauchow]

RR staying a head coach longer.. a half hour longer than most anticipated, that is.

[mauchow]

Not really sure what to think about Utah's uniforms...

[SirFozzie]

Michigan's D gets embarrassed on the same exact play and now it's 59-52.

EDIT: 59-59.

Bah. You guys get the artificial sweetner that is Triple OVertime :). the 55-48 game was all natural (from low quality ingredients, I grant, Duke and VA)

[mauchow]

Michigan literally tramples over the Indiana Qb who just got sacked on the 2 pt attempt.. hope the kid is okay. Michigan gets the win.

[DaddyTorgo]

My dad (an alum) and my lil brother were at the Michigan game today. Lucky for them - I didn't watch the whole thing, but it looked pretty damn fun.

[Izulde]

UNLV down 0-38 at the half to BYU. Thankfully college basketball season is just about here.

[Matthean]

Bah. You guys get the artificial sweetner that is Triple OVertime :). the 55-48 game was all natural (from low quality ingredients, I grant, Duke and VA)

52-52 even before OT. 67-65 total. RR has to breathe a sigh of relief that they won, or his decision to bench Robinson would be the virtual lock for him to be gone.

[Logan]

Very glad I get CBS College Sports HD.

So much for that. It's been continuously freezing on me.

[sovereignstar v2]

Utes not looking good ...

[M GO BLUE!!!]

RichRod really knows how to coach a team that, if they win... it still feels like a loss.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

That Oregon TD was nice.

[Matthean]

Scores on ESPN has are a mess. I'm literally getting scores from various points in the game from Oregon being 0-0 to TCU being 0-0 and 'Bama being in the first quarter and then sometimes they display the right score. I have to literally go into Gamecast to get the right score.

[Matthean]

Utes not looking good ...

I wouldn't want to be the team that plays them in a bowl game. That defense is very legit.

[Kodos]

Iowa scores with under three to play quite easily leaving Indiana plenty of time to go down the field themselves.. they had their opportunities getting into or close to the red zone.. Perfect throw by the QB into the endzone and the wide open WR dropped one of the easiest hand catches to make to preserve the Iowa victory. How lucky is Iowa..

Classic Indiana. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. First, allow a 90-yard drive in 3 plays to go behind late. Then, drop the winning TD with 28 seconds left.

Disappointed for our seniors (it was our last home game of the season), but hopefully this helps seal Bill Lynch's fate at the end of the season. I'm hoping that 0-8 in the Big Ten is enough to get this joke of a head coach fired.

[mauchow]

Go LSU.

Go ISU.

Go Washington.

[cuervo72]

I need some coffee watching this Bama/LSU game.

[cuervo72]

Hey, that's a little better.

[JPhillips]

All right, what a great set of 2:30 games! Time to make the hole in my coach sink that much deeper!

JINX!

[mauchow]

JINX!

Well, they'll be great in the final five minutes of the game hopefully.. I'm hoping for Neb/ISU, LSU/Bama, Oregon/UW. We'll see.

[henry296]

52-52 even before OT. 67-65 total. RR has to breathe a sigh of relief that they won, or his decision to bench Robinson would be the virtual lock for him to be gone.

Actual it was 45 all after regulation, but the point remains the same.

[mauchow]

All right! ISU back in it after a TD and then a fumble on the ensuing kick off return. Red zone again. Let's go ISU!

[mauchow]

Touchdown on 3rd and long. 24-24 in Iowa City. C'mon baby! Badgers need your help Cyclones!

[mauchow]

WOO! Big stop for ISU! ISU ball once again! LETS GO BABY!

[mauchow]

Nobody watching the Husker/Clones game? Less than a 1 minute to go, Nebraska ball at mid field, they just used their last time out and its 3rd and 5ish. This thing is likely headed to overtime.

[mauchow]

40 seconds left for ISU, all three timeouts remaining and they'll start at the 20 yard line. No big mistake turnovers here... Almost would rather just down it and send it into OT.

edit: and that's what they decide. Overtime it is. Kinda weak but understandable. Take the slight momentum and hope your defense can make a big stop.

Bama choking it away. What a good day for the Wisconsin Badgers. They could potentially jump 4 to 5 spots from #9...

[sovereignstar v2]

FAIL

[mauchow]

Saw that coming. Nebraska scores first. Iowa St scores and does a fake extra point... he had him but it was the weakest throw I have ever seen that allowed the defender to catch up to the ball and Nebraska hangs on for the win! WoW!

[Kodos]

Nice that JoePa's 400th win didn't come against Indiana.

[Bigsmooth]

Navy put 76 on ECU! Balls.

[Dr. Sak]

Glad I got home in time to see the last minutes of the PSU game. Congrats JoePa!

[JPhillips]

Navy put 76 on ECU! Balls.

How did RichRod coach two teams today?

[Buccaneer]

I don't understand the ending of the AL/LSU game.


<TABLE class=data width="100%"><TBODY><TR id=play class=row1 align=right><TD class=row2 align=left>4-9-AL47</TD><TD class=row2 align=left>(1:00) Josh Jasper punted for 33 yards. Marquis Maze made a faircatch. </TD></TR><TR id=away class=row2 align=right><TD class=away colSpan=2 align=left>Alabama Crimson Tide at 1:00</TD></TR><TR id=play class=row1 align=right><TD class=row2 align=left>1-10-AL14</TD><TD class=row2 align=left>(0:13) Greg McElroy passed incomplete. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=data width="100%"><TBODY><TR id=play class=row1 align=right><TD class=row2 align=left></TD><TD class=row2 align=left></TD></TR><TR id=away class=row2 align=right><TD class=away colSpan=2 align=left></TD></TR><TR id=play class=row1 align=right><TD class=row2 align=left></TD><TD class=row2 align=left> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


The GameTracker had Alabama with the ball at 1:00 with 3 timeouts left. What happened in that 47 seconds after the fair catch?

[Matthean]

'Bama went up 14-10 and I came to the conclusion that LSU couldn't really stop 'Bama's passing game. 14 points later and I'm going, "What the hell just happened." LSU flat out out coached 'Bama today. The college football season just got way less interesting for me. If Auburn for any reason slips, the SEC isn't winning a title this year.

[StLee]

I don't understand the ending of the AL/LSU game.



The GameTracker had Alabama with the ball at 1:00 with 3 timeouts left. What happened in that 47 seconds after the fair catch?

LSU took a delay of game penalty with about 20 secs left and then punted. Alabama then threw three straight incomplete passes, the last two serving as Hail Marys.

Oops, the last play was not a Hail Mary but a short pass with a few laterals before the guy was tackled.

[cschex]

I don't understand the ending of the AL/LSU game.



The GameTracker had Alabama with the ball at 1:00 with 3 timeouts left. What happened in that 47 seconds after the fair catch?

GameTrackes was wrong, the 3rd down play ended around a minute, Delay of game taken on 4th down at 25 seconds, punt and fair catch w/ about ~20 secs left. Bama was out of timeouts.

Oh, and GEAUX TIGERS!

[Buccaneer]

the SEC isn't winning a title this year.

And then the joy of the world would be complete.

[Buccaneer]

Thanks for explanations.

[Matthean]

And then the joy of the world would be complete.

To be honest I'm almost hoping for Auburn and Oregon to get beat so the BCS is forced to take TCU and BSU in the title game.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Oklahoma may be in trouble at A&M (19-7 mid 3rd)
Tennessee is not in trouble at Memphis (37-7 Vols, still 2:30 left 1st half)

[Scarecrow]

And the Fire Mack Brown chants get louder and louder...

[Celeval]

Every time you think Texas has hit the low point... they currently trail Kansas State 38-0 in the third quarter, Garrett Gilbert has thrown 5 interceptions (including 2 in the first two minutes of the second half), and Kansas State has just now (7:29 remaining in the third quarter) completed their first pass of the game.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And A&M just scored again to go back up 33-17 (after OU had closed to within 19-17).

[JonInMiddleGA]

And don't look now but TxTech has scored 21 unanswered to lead Missouri 24-17

[MJ4H]

Nice to see a convincing win on the road against a legit top 25 team today. 41-20 at South Carolina. Not as close as the score looked either.

[Cuckoo]

Road OU, otherwise known as Mr. Hyde, returns. Looks like someone other than OU or Texas in the south might get to play in the Big 12 Championship for the first time in a long while.

Sooners are a talented team but clearly not a great one. Even worse, they still have two tough road games left ahead.

[DeToxRox]

Had to go to work at halftime of the Michigan game so I just finished watching it.

First, I hope the selection committee takes this game into account come March.

Second, it's hard to dismiss how good our O is under RR but fucking christ our defense. If somehow RR let a DC come in with his staff and do his own thing I'd be all for him sticking around. Our O only loses one player next year which is scary to think about but I don't know of any coach who'd make such concessions.

Alas I can dream.

What this did show me is we should roll Purdue next week and then we need to play our asses off vs UW/OSU for RR to stick around. He may be able to stick at 7-5 but if OSU blows our doors off he's gone.

[cartman]

Garret Gilbert is looking more and more like Chris Simms Lite.

[Big Fo]

'Bama went up 14-10 and I came to the conclusion that LSU couldn't really stop 'Bama's passing game. 14 points later and I'm going, "What the hell just happened." LSU flat out out coached 'Bama today. The college football season just got way less interesting for me. If Auburn for any reason slips, the SEC isn't winning a title this year.

If Auburn lost to Alabama but won the SEC championship game, what kind of chances would they have of making the title game?

At this point I want Auburn and Oregon to remain undefeated, I think that would be a really fun title game to watch.

[MrBug708]

Nice to see Kai Forbath hit his first game winner ever (HS or College). Hope to see the nation's best kicker take it to the NFL and he could very well be a first day draft pick (well, rounds 1-3), though it's not that likely

[RainMaker]

If Auburn lost to Alabama but won the SEC championship game, what kind of chances would they have of making the title game?

At this point I want Auburn and Oregon to remain undefeated, I think that would be a really fun title game to watch.
That's what makes the whole system so fucking stupid. If Auburn lost to Alabama in the first week of conference play, they'd have a shot. But I still think a loss that late in the year is tough to overcome.

[MrBug708]

How do the refs blow that two point conversion for USC?

[Carman Bulldog]

So, to get this straight, TCU and Oregon are a combined 41-4 over the past two seasons, with two of those four losses (one apiece) coming against Boise State. Now granted, both of those victories were last year, but Boise only lost 1 starter on offense and defense combined. It amazes me how little respect they are getting when it comes to the four remaining undefeated teams.

[Matthean]

If Auburn lost to Alabama but won the SEC championship game, what kind of chances would they have of making the title game?

Zero. Oregon, TC, and BSU are making too strong of cases at this point for a one loss team to sneak in. 'Bama was the only team I could see doing it, but then that idea got killed.

'Bama can beat Auburn, but it's up to 'Bama's offense to play at the level they are suppose to versus "Wait, we have to score now?" which they tend to do far more than they should. I thought coming into this year 'Bama's offense would be something that could put up 30-40 in a game and they have only shown flashes of it. :banghead:

[Matthean]

So, to get this straight, TCU and Oregon are a combined 41-4 over the past two seasons, with two of those four losses (one apiece) coming against Boise State. Now granted, both of those victories were last year, but Boise only lost 1 starter on offense and defense combined. It amazes me how little respect they are getting when it comes to the four remaining undefeated teams.

Oregon beat rather handedly a one loss Stanford team that looks rather rock solid. TCU just smoked an undefeated team by 40 while doing so on the road. Auburn is undefeated and in the SEC. I think not giving any of the teams their respect due is short sided.

[RedKingGold]

My God, Texas has been a NC contender for several years now. One down year and people are calling for his firing? Ridiculous.

[miami_fan]

My God, Texas has been a NC contender for several years now. One down year and people are calling for his firing? Ridiculous.

I was thinking the same thing. Win a title, play in another title game, contend for a few others. Then have one bad season and it is time for the coach to go.


And people call SEC fans nuts.

[MizzouRah]

I still do not understand why Pinkel doesn't at least try the freshman Franklin after Gabbert becomes clearly uneffective yet again!!!

Texas Tech switched QB's and won the fcking game!

[Buccaneer]

I have long been a defender of bowl games, even though I do think they have way too many. But remember back when January 1 bowl games used to mean something? It's not that they have some BCS bowl games are on other days but look what kind of teams get to play on January 1:

SEC No. 6
Big Ten No. 7
Big 12/C-USA leftover
Big 10 No. 4/5

But we do have the Fiesta, Rose and Capital One that do too. Did they purposely fill the remaining schedule with dredges in order to emphasize the three bigger games?

[Greyroofoo]

I don't see what it hurts by having those extra games.

[Buccaneer]

My point is that there used to be a hierarchy of bowls: the smaller, least significant bowls starting off 2 weeks before New Years and then getting bigger until the Jan 1 bowls. I know BCS has messed that up some but when you have teams like Stanford, Utah, WVU, Ok State and Clemson playing prior to Jan 1. and then on that day, you reward teams like Texas, Illinois, Penn State and So. Carolina.

[JPhillips]

I agree that Jan 1 bowls just aren't a big draw for me anymore. I remember as a kid spending all day in front of the tv, but now there is always a game or two I don't care about.

[Matthean]

My biggest problem with the sheer number of bowl games is that all you need is a 6-6 record to have the chance to play in one. Considering how easy it is to get 2-3 wins to start the season and then merely get 3 wins in your conference, it's really not saying much to be 6-6.

[MJ4H]

Am I alone in thinking this call is about as indefensible as it gets?

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[mauchow]

MF4H, that is very pathetic. Hopefully one day there will be a much better system in place. They should have about 3-7 different people in different rooms that have no idea what the score to the game is, no idea what the situation is and calling what they think the call should have been; majority rules.

Hell, they could have a central location for this. 100 people locked in a room for the afternoon waiting for a replay to overlook.

[Dr. Sak]

It's sad that the best conference year after year...has the crappiest officials year after year. I told my one observer how I like to watch D1 games and watch their mechanics and calls...his response to me was "Don't watch the SEC officials, they are shit."

It's a shame because the commish of the SEC officials is Rogers Redding who is a main rules interpreter for the NCAA.

[cartman]

There isn't a peep of 'Fire Mack Brown' in the Austin area. Not sure who was hearing that.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I still do not understand why Pinkel doesn't at least try the freshman Franklin after Gabbert becomes clearly uneffective yet again!!!

Texas Tech switched QB's and won the fcking game!

I'd agree. Gabbert has to be one of the more baffling QB's we've had in awhile. His highs and lows have a really wide range of performance.

With that said, I think MU's record is right about where I'd expect it at this point. The unfortunate part is that loss took all the drama out of the North race. Nebraska has to fall really flat to miss the Championship at this point.

The B12 is just a mess right now.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Am I alone in thinking this call is about as indefensible as it gets?

{shrug} I'd have ruled it incomplete myself.

[Chief Rum]

My biggest problem with the sheer number of bowl games is that all you need is a 6-6 record to have the chance to play in one. Considering how easy it is to get 2-3 wins to start the season and then merely get 3 wins in your conference, it's really not saying much to be 6-6.

Well, not every conference plays Chatanooga or The Citadel in their nonconference schedule, you know, although I understand your general point.

[MJ4H]

{shrug} I'd have ruled it incomplete myself.

At least that call would've been remotely plausible.

[sterlingice]

I still do not understand why Pinkel doesn't at least try the freshman Franklin after Gabbert becomes clearly uneffective yet again!!!

Texas Tech switched QB's and won the fcking game!

Has Gabbert always had such happy feet? I've seen most of the Mizzou games the last two weeks and he never gets set, which leads to horrible overthrows and underthrows.

SI

[dawgfan]

Jim Harbaugh is a hell of a coach. He's definitely not out there to make any friends - he coaches with a massive chip on his shoulder and is the kind of guy that would step on your helmet rather than offer a hand to help you up, but it's all part of his way and he's turned Stanford into a smashmouth, tougher than the other guy program.

I only got to see about the last quarter of the game last night against Arizona, but I'd estimate he ran the same power running play 65% of the time, and often several times in a row, both because Arizona couldn't stop it and also, I'm sure, because Harbaugh wanted to rub Stoops' nose in that fact. They'd line up in a power-I formation with a TE/OT ahead of the FB ahead of the TB, with the TE/OT motioning to one side of the formation (usually the right side) and an off-tackle run to that side. Arizona's defense started to recognize it and would motion to overload that side but still couldn't stop it, and then Luck threw in a wrinkle where, when he saw Arizona overloading the strong side, he faked the handoff and ran around the left end untouched.

Too bad that Stanford fans couldn't come close to filling the stadium. Fantastic team, very important game, good weather, and they still were well short of a sellout in a 50,000 seat stadium. What Stanford football fans there are out there are going to be pissed when Harbaugh inevitably leaves. I think he'd love to stay in an ideal world, but he's clearly frustrated that the team isn't more popular than it is, and I suspect he'd relish a chance to come home to Michigan and/or prove himself in the NFL.

I think it's probably a toss-up as to who's the better coach in the Pac-10 - Harbaugh or Kelly.

[RomaGoth]

Jim Harbaugh is a hell of a coach. He's definitely not out there to make any friends - he coaches with a massive chip on his shoulder and is the kind of guy that would step on your helmet rather than offer a hand to help you up, but it's all part of his way and he's turned Stanford into a smashmouth, tougher than the other guy program.

I only got to see about the last quarter of the game last night against Arizona, but I'd estimate he ran the same power running play 65% of the time, and often several times in a row, both because Arizona couldn't stop it and also, I'm sure, because Harbaugh wanted to rub Stoops' nose in that fact. They'd line up in a power-I formation with a TE/OT ahead of the FB ahead of the TB, with the TE/OT motioning to one side of the formation (usually the right side) and an off-tackle run to that side. Arizona's defense started to recognize it and would motion to overload that side but still couldn't stop it, and then Luck threw in a wrinkle where, when he saw Arizona overloading the strong side, he faked the handoff and ran around the left end untouched.

Too bad that Stanford fans couldn't come close to filling the stadium. Fantastic team, very important game, good weather, and they still were well short of a sellout in a 50,000 seat stadium. What Stanford football fans there are out there are going to be pissed when Harbaugh inevitably leaves. I think he'd love to stay in an ideal world, but he's clearly frustrated that the team isn't more popular than it is, and I suspect he'd relish a chance to come home to Michigan and/or prove himself in the NFL.

I think it's probably a toss-up as to who's the better coach in the Pac-10 - Harbaugh or Kelly.

Been wanting to see Harbaugh at Michigan for years now, but I am sure the AD will find a way to fck it up somehow.

[Matthean]

Been wanting to see Harbaugh at Michigan for years now, but I am sure the AD will find a way to fck it up somehow.

My football friend swears he's going to the NFL.

[Cuckoo]

Garret Gilbert is looking more and more like Chris Simms Lite.

I don't know... Seemed like Simms pretty much beat the teams he was supposed to beat. My memory was that he just couldn't win when it counted the most.

Gilbert is not as bad as his stats would indicate. If his receivers weren't dropping balls, he would have much better numbers, including far fewer interceptions. And he's young. He's going to get better with recognition. In my opinion, Texas needs to be far more worried about the fact that they don't seem to have anyone making plays on any kind of consistent basis at all.

I thought Texas would struggle far more than people expected. It's just natural when you lose guys like McCoy and Shipley, but I figured the defense would win a few games by themselves. And I'm shocked that they are where they are right now.

As bad as it feels with OU losing to A&M, I just look around the Big 12 and see that it's as narrow a difference in team quality as there has ever been in the conference.

[Dr. Sak]

{shrug} I'd have ruled it incomplete myself.

I agree with you...that is at least believable.

[Matthean]

BCS rankings are out. Oh, and in case you didn't already know this....

Dear TCU and BSU,

Screw you.

Love,

The BCS system.

Apparently smacking Chattanooga around for under 40 while at home is far more impressive than going on the road and beating an undefeated team by 40.

NCAA College Football BCS Standings Week 11 - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/college-football/bcs)

New listing of bowl projections as well. I kind of chuckled at 'Bama vs. OSU in the Capital One Bowl game. What's in your wallet? Not the national title you thought when the season started. *sigh* Well, it would be nice if one of my teams got to beat OSU this year.

NCAA College Football BCS Bowl Projections Week 10 - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/college-football/bowls/projections?season=2010&week=10)

[MJ4H]

Apparently smacking Chattanooga around for under 40 while at home is far more impressive than going on the road and beating an undefeated team by 40.


I don't think the BCS ratings are based on just this past week's games.

[tarcone]

Iowa sneaks by Indiana, helped at the end by a dropped TD on 4th down.

Whew.

[sovereignstar v2]

Iowa sneaks by Indiana, helped at the end by a dropped TD on 4th down.

SPOILER ALERT

[molson]

I don't think the BCS ratings are based on just this past week's games.

And TCU actually did gain ground on Auburn, and put some distance between themselves and Boise St.

It doesn't matter though - if Auburn wins out, they'd clearly deserve to be the national title game, same with Oregon.

Of course, both of those teams losing and Boise St/TCU winning out is the best scenario for those who just like a lot of chaos and for the BCS to look bad.

[Matthean]

I don't think the BCS ratings are based on just this past week's games.

Oh, I know. It's just out of the four main teams TCU has the least number one votes from the coaches and ties for third in the AP. TCU also ranks 2nd by the computers, but yet have no big game after this. If Oregon and Auburn go undefeated, TCU isn't playing for the title despite killing the best team they faced all year and on the road. TCU and BSU have to have the perfect storm season to get in.

[Lathum]

Oh, I know. It's just out of the four main teams TCU has the least number one votes from the coaches and ties for third in the AP. TCU also ranks 2nd by the computers, but yet have no big game after this. If Oregon and Auburn go undefeated, TCU isn't playing for the title despite killing the best team they faced all year and on the road. TCU and BSU have to have the perfect storm season to get in.

And if Oregon and Auburn go undefeated they have played MUCH better schedules then TCU or BSU, so there really is no complaint.

[RomaGoth]

And if Oregon and Auburn go undefeated they have played MUCH better schedules then TCU or BSU, so there really is no complaint.

I have no problem with Auburn vs. Oregon, IF they both go undefeated. If BSU and/or TCU finish undefeated and are kept out of the big game while a one-loss team plays for the title, the BCS will continue to be the laughingstock of all postseason systems currently in place. Bah, what am I saying...it is a laughingstock regardless of who plays for the title.

[Lathum]

I have no problem with Auburn vs. Oregon, IF they both go undefeated. If BSU and/or TCU finish undefeated and are kept out of the big game while a one-loss team plays for the title, the BCS will continue to be the laughingstock of all postseason systems currently in place. Bah, what am I saying...it is a laughingstock regardless of who plays for the title.

I don't really agree. BSU and TCU would both lose 2-3 games playing in the SEC, do you really think either of them are better than a one loss Alabama or Auburn? ( yes I know Alabama has 2 losses)

Just because a team goes unbeaten doesn't mean it is their right to be one of the two teams selected to play for the title. You have to factor in their schedule.

[Matthean]

I don't really agree. BSU and TCU would both lose 2-3 games playing in the SEC, do you really think either of them are better than a one loss Alabama or Auburn? ( yes I know Alabama has 2 losses)

Just because a team goes unbeaten doesn't mean it is their right to be one of the two teams selected to play for the title. You have to factor in their schedule.

If somebody wants to take Auburn as their team then I'll gladly take TCU as mine. I think 'Bama has the best A game in the country, but they probably have the lowest chance of it happening and hence the two losses. I could see 'Bama getting beat by TCU, or BSU for no other reason I think both of those schools would be more likely to bring their A game.

[Lathum]

If somebody wants to take Auburn as their team then I'll gladly take TCU as mine. I think 'Bama has the best A game in the country, but they probably have the lowest chance of it happening and hence the two losses. I could see 'Bama getting beat by TCU, or BSU for no other reason I think both of those schools would be more likely to bring their A game.

My point isn't that TCU could beat one of them head to head, my point is do you really think TCU is undefeated right now with Auburns schedule?

[molson]

Just because a team goes unbeaten doesn't mean it is their right to be one of the two teams selected to play for the title. You have to factor in their schedule.

True, but just because a team has a weaker schedule, it doesn't mean they wouldn't have gone undefeated against a tougher schedule. Sure, they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt against other undefeated teams when we're talking bowls/national championships, but if we're just talking who's BETTER - playing a weaker opponent doesn't make you worse. It just provides less evidence of how good you are.

TCU/Boise St have been dominant. How far down the rankings would TCU/Boise St. have to go to be neutral site underdogs? Certainly they'd be favorites against anyone outside the top 10. Teams 5-10 v. TCU/Boise St. would be a very small line in either direction. They both belong where they are as long as they keep winning.

And the SEC schedule ain't this murderer's row everyone seems to think it is. There's a lot of crappy teams there TCU/Boise St. would destroy. There's only a few SEC teams ranked higher than Virginia Tech at this point. Or even Nevada.

[Lathum]

True, but just because a team has a weaker schedule, it doesn't mean they wouldn't have gone undefeated against a tougher schedule. Sure, they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt against other undefeated teams when we're talking bowls/national championships, but if we're just talking who's BETTER - playing a weaker opponent doesn't make you worse. It just provides less evidence of how good you are.

TCU/Boise St have been dominant. How far down the rankings would TCU/Boise St. have to go to be neutral site underdogs? Certainly they'd be favorites against anyone outside the top 10. Teams 5-10 v. TCU/Boise St. would be a very small line in either direction. They both belong where they are as long as they keep winning.

And the SEC schedule ain't this murderer's row everyone seems to think it is. There's a lot of crappy teams there TCU/Boise St. would destroy. There's only a few SEC teams ranked higher than Virginia Tech at this point. Or even Nevada.

And they don't take the regular week in week out beatings top tier teams take. That makes it a lot easier to stay healthy enough to administer regular beatings.

[Lathum]

And the SEC schedule ain't this murderer's row everyone seems to think it is. There's a lot of crappy teams there TCU/Boise St. would destroy. There's only a few SEC teams ranked higher than Virginia Tech at this point. Or even Nevada.

Do you honestly think if Florida or Georgia played Nevadas schedule they would have more than 1 loss?

[Matthean]

My point isn't that TCU could beat one of them head to head, my point is do you really think TCU is undefeated right now with Auburns schedule?

LSU is the only game that makes me pause, but it was at home, so sure I think TCU could have gone through it undefeated. Auburn beat two teams with a combined record of 10-9 by a total of 6 points and needed OT on one, so it's not like they haven't been challenged by some lesser teams.

[Matthean]

And they don't take the regular week in week out beatings top tier teams take. That makes it a lot easier to stay healthy enough to administer regular beatings.

I didn't know TCU and BSU simply got bye weeks where they filled in Ws into the win column. :devil:

[MJ4H]

LSU is the only game that makes me pause, but it was at home, so sure I think TCU could have gone through it undefeated. Auburn beat two teams with a combined record of 10-9 by a total of 6 points and needed OT on one, so it's not like they haven't been challenged by some lesser teams.

It isn't a matter of taking those games one at a time. It's the fact that they are all tough games and they would take their toll on the team much more than their schedule does. Quality depth would become a much bigger issue with a tougher schedule.

[molson]

And they don't take the regular week in week out beatings top tier teams take. That makes it a lot easier to stay healthy enough to administer regular beatings.

Auburn's schedule isn't really that amazing, I'm not sure that they're taking beatings "week in and week out". It's tougher than Boise St/TCU's schedules, but they still have plenty of weeks off where they should dominate and stay healthy - Arkansas St, Louisiana-Monroe, Chattanooga, Kentucky, Mississippi, and they play plenty of unranked, middle of the road BCS Schools (like Oregon St).

And the WAC/MWC are always a tad underrated in these discussions. They aren't the SEC but they aren't the Sun Belt either. Both are better than the ACC or Big East.

[Lathum]

LSU is the only game that makes me pause, but it was at home, so sure I think TCU could have gone through it undefeated. Auburn beat two teams with a combined record of 10-9 by a total of 6 points and needed OT on one, so it's not like they haven't been challenged by some lesser teams.

But it isn't just about the LSU game in a bubble. It is about two weeks earlier having to go on the road to KY, a game I agree TCU wins, then playing Arkansas, then having to play LSU.

And I think TCU likely loses to one of Arkansas, South Carolina, and maybe a Jeckyl and Hyde Clemson.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Do you honestly think if Florida or Georgia played Nevadas schedule they would have more than 1 loss?

Georgia might not be the best example ;)

[molson]

. It's the fact that they are all tough games and they would take their toll on the team much more than their schedule does.

If by "all" you mean "about half", then I'm with you.

No national championship contender should consider at Kentucky a "tough game" (or the rest of the bottom half of the SEC)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Has Gabbert always had such happy feet? I've seen most of the Mizzou games the last two weeks and he never gets set, which leads to horrible overthrows and underthrows.

SI

He has a really bad habit of 'feeling' a rush that's not there when facing better teams. I guess he assumes that the better teams are going to rush quicker. Often, he'll end up running when he just needs to step up into the pocket. It's something he'll need to learn. It would help his stock at the next level tremendously.

[MJ4H]

If by "all" you mean "about half", then I'm with you.

By all I mean the schedule as a whole and not just individual games.

[cuervo72]

My point isn't that TCU could beat one of them head to head, my point is do you really think TCU is undefeated right now with Auburns schedule?

Sat, Sept 4 vs Arkansas State W 52-26 1-0 (0-0)
Thu, Sept 9 @ Mississippi State W 17-14 2-0 (1-0)
Sat, Sept 18 vs Clemson W 27-24 OT 3-0 (1-0)
Sat, Sept 25 vs #12 South Carolina W 35-27 4-0 (2-0)
Sat, Oct 2 vs Louisiana-Monroe W 52-3 5-0 (2-0)
Sat, Oct 9 @ Kentucky W 37-34 6-0 (3-0)
Sat, Oct 16 vs #12 Arkansas W 65-43 7-0 (4-0)
Sat, Oct 23 vs #6 LSU W 24-17 8-0 (5-0)
Sat, Oct 30 @ Mississippi W 51-31 9-0 (6-0)
Sat, Nov 6 vs Chattanooga W 62-24 10-0 (6-0)

Eh, who can say. Ark st, L-M, Chattanooga are not all that impressive. Miss St has a good record, but good wins against a down Florida and a down Georgia (and will likely look much worse after playing Bama and Arkansas). Clemson really isn't any good. SC, not a bad win (at home). Same with Arkansas, I guess. LSU is a good win.

Really, most of this is still conjecture based on what folks think power conferences are and a few meaningful out-of-conference games here and there. Which here is...uh, Clemson I guess.

It's surprising when a Big 12/SEC/Big 10 team DOESN'T go undefeated these days, with the cupcakes and larger conferences where some teams miss each other (four 1-loss Big 10 teams? Really?). Guaranteed there will be 1-loss teams, and if even those get the benefit of the doubt over other undefeateds...

[molson]

By all I mean all.

I realize SEC fans think their conference teams should be ranked 1-12 in the national rankings, but really, all tough games on the schedule? Even Chattanooga and Louisiana-Monroe and Arkansas St? And in the SEC, even Vanderbilt and Kentucky and Tennessee and Ole Miss? (I realize Auburn didn't play Vanderbilt or Ole Miss, just looking at the SEC).

Their top 4-6 teams are better than any other conference's top teams, and to get through that undefeated is damn impressive and worthy of a national championship. But I think you're dramatically overrating the middle and bottom of the conference.

[MJ4H]

By all I mean the schedule as a whole and not just individual games.

.

[molson]

.

They get plenty of breathers during the season. At least, "breathers" by the standard of a national championship contender. What's up with playing Chattanooga in the middle of the season anyway? Kind of kills the "week in and week out" thing they'd otherwise have going for them.

A national championship contender shouldn't feel all that threatened by games against Chattanooga or Kentucky or Mississippi or Louisiana-Monroe.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I don't believe Kentucky belongs in that Vandy/UT/Ole Miss group of weaklings. Most years? Yeah. This year? Not really, there's some weapons on offense there.

[MizzouRah]

I'd agree. Gabbert has to be one of the more baffling QB's we've had in awhile. His highs and lows have a really wide range of performance.

With that said, I think MU's record is right about where I'd expect it at this point. The unfortunate part is that loss took all the drama out of the North race. Nebraska has to fall really flat to miss the Championship at this point.

The B12 is just a mess right now.

He got hit pretty good in the Nebraska game and I'm not so sure he doesn't have a mild concussion.

His staff always seems to have issues adjusting when things are not working according to the game plan. I still love him.. but I'm not big on the OC.

[MizzouRah]

Has Gabbert always had such happy feet? I've seen most of the Mizzou games the last two weeks and he never gets set, which leads to horrible overthrows and underthrows.

SI

I think he has Bulger syndrome.

[Matthean]

.

Auburn's schedule was posted and there's definitely breather games in there. Was playing Louisiana-Monroe at home so utterly difficult and draining that going to play UK the next week was that difficult?

[RomaGoth]

I don't really agree. BSU and TCU would both lose 2-3 games playing in the SEC, do you really think either of them are better than a one loss Alabama or Auburn? ( yes I know Alabama has 2 losses)

There is no way you can know this to be fact without them actually playing an SEC schedule for a period of enough years to get a realistic sample size. BSU and TCU do not have the depth that an Auburn/Florida/Alabama have this is true, but over a period of several seasons, would their recruiting not become better by playing these teams, thus increasing their quality of depth? I honestly don't see anyone in the SEC beating Boise State right now except for Auburn.

Just because a team goes unbeaten doesn't mean it is their right to be one of the two teams selected to play for the title. You have to factor in their schedule.

This is the type of BCS nonsense that makes the whole system a sham. Name another league, anywhere, that does not allow an undefeated regular season team to participate for a chance at a title. Going unbeaten automatically gives a team a right to be selected for a title game, and this is why the BCS is a farce.

[Lathum]

Auburn's schedule was posted and there's definitely breather games in there. Was playing Louisiana-Monroe at home so utterly difficult and draining that going to play UK the next week was that difficult?

Yeah, but every game on BSU and TCUs schedule is a breather game except one or two. Auburn plays 7-8 games a season that have teams with NFL caliber players on them, no one TCU or BSU plays has that kind of talent, including the Nevadas of the world.

[RomaGoth]

But it isn't just about the LSU game in a bubble. It is about two weeks earlier having to go on the road to KY, a game I agree TCU wins, then playing Arkansas, then having to play LSU.

And I think TCU likely loses to one of Arkansas, South Carolina, and maybe a Jeckyl and Hyde Clemson.

I see TCU beating all three of those teams, although Arkansas would be a helluva matchup.

[RomaGoth]

Yeah, but every game on BSU and TCUs schedule is a breather game except one or two. Auburn plays 7-8 games a season that have teams with NFL caliber players on them, no one TCU or BSU plays has that kind of talent, including the Nevadas of the world.

Try telling this to Idaho, Fresno State, Hawaii, etc., while they are not the quality of opponent that Auburn may play in conference, these teams bring their "A" game because of who and what Boise State is now. Also, while there are more NFL caliber players on SEC teams than in the WAC, how many come from Kentucky, Vanderbilt, and Mississippi State?

[Lathum]

There is no way you can know this to be fact without them actually playing an SEC schedule for a period of enough years to get a realistic sample size. BSU and TCU do not have the depth that an Auburn/Florida/Alabama have this is true, but over a period of several seasons, would their recruiting not become better by playing these teams, thus increasing their quality of depth? I honestly don't see anyone in the SEC beating Boise State right now except for Auburn.
.

You aren't arguing the same point as everyone else. No one is saying BSU and/ or TCU couldn't build a program in the SEC over a long period of time. We are discussing this season, and this season both those teams lose 2-3 games. You want proof, look and see how many guys the SEC puts into the NFL and look and see how many thew WAC puts in.

As for your last point, you pretty much lose all credibility with that statement. Alabama would paste BSU by double digits. BSU probably losses to Arkansas, USC, and LSU as well. This is a BSU team that struggled to beat Va Tech who lost to James Madison.

[RomaGoth]

Dola

Not trying to start a fight with you Lathum, just a friendly debate is all it is.

[RomaGoth]

You aren't arguing the same point as everyone else. No one is saying BSU and/ or TCU couldn't build a program in the SEC over a long period of time. We are discussing this season, and this season both those teams lose 2-3 games. You want proof, look and see how many guys the SEC puts into the NFL and look and see how many thew WAC puts in.

As for your last point, you pretty much lose all credibility with that statement. Alabama would paste BSU by double digits. BSU probably losses to Arkansas, USC, and LSU as well. This is a BSU team that struggled to beat Va Tech who lost to James Madison.

How exactly do I lose credibility? Because my OPINION is different than yours? There is no way you can state with any factual evidence that Alabama "pastes" BSU by double digits. They are a much better team than anyone realizes, and they won't be given the chance to prove it again because of the good 'ol boy network that is the ridiculous BCS.

[Lathum]

Also, while there are more NFL caliber players on SEC teams than in the WAC, how many come from Kentucky, Vanderbilt, and Mississippi State?

To answer your question these 3 schools had 7 combined drafted players, the WAC, BSU included, had five as a whole.

[Matthean]

As for your last point, you pretty much lose all credibility with that statement. Alabama would paste BSU by double digits. BSU probably losses to Arkansas, USC, and LSU as well. This is a BSU team that struggled to beat Va Tech who lost to James Madison.

You have more faith in 'Bama than I do. Should they win? Yes, but I'm not sure this year's team gets it. Oh, if we are going to use single game arguments, can we talk about LSU's win against Tennessee?

[Lathum]

How exactly do I lose credibility? Because my OPINION is different than yours? There is no way you can state with any factual evidence that Alabama "pastes" BSU by double digits. They are a much better team than anyone realizes, and they won't be given the chance to prove it again because of the good 'ol boy network that is the ridiculous BCS.

In my eyes if you think for one second BSU beats Alabama you are nuts.

And I am far from an SEC homer, I graduated from Washington and grew up in Big East country. I also have watched every BSU game this season.

They get killed by Alabama. The Tide has all NFL athletes on their defense.

[Matthean]

To answer your question these 3 schools had 7 combined drafted players, the WAC, BSU included, had five as a whole.

Good thing games are played on paper based on talent.

[Lathum]

You have more faith in 'Bama than I do. Should they win? Yes, but I'm not sure this year's team gets it. Oh, if we are going to use single game arguments, can we talk about LSU's win against Tennessee?

And BSU needed the last minute to get their best win against an ACC team, what is your point?

[RomaGoth]

In my eyes if you think for one second BSU beats Alabama you are nuts.

And I am far from an SEC homer, I graduated from Washington and grew up in Big East country. I also have watched every BSU game this season.

They get killed by Alabama. The Tide has all NFL athletes on their defense.

This isn't a text based sim, the players have to actually play, uh, football on the field. Just ask South Carolina.

[RomaGoth]

And BSU needed the last minute to get their best win against an ACC team, what is your point?

To be fair, that game was not as close as the score indicated, but you already know that because you watched it right?

[Matthean]

How exactly do I lose credibility? Because my OPINION is different than yours? There is no way you can state with any factual evidence that Alabama "pastes" BSU by double digits. They are a much better team than anyone realizes, and they won't be given the chance to prove it again because of the good 'ol boy network that is the ridiculous BCS.

Actually, 'Bama has two losses so it won't happen since BSU will be in a better bowl game. :D

[Lathum]

Good thing games are played on paper based on talent.

I was responding to his comment about NFL players coming from those schools.

[Matthean]

And BSU needed the last minute to get their best win against an ACC team, what is your point?

Also the first game of the season which tends to mean a lot less in people's eyes since teams are working out kinks still. I would still take TCU over BSU though. TCU's closest game is 11. They have hardly played anybody credible. Ok, fine. Nobody has been close to them either. Sure, they could mail it in against the crappy teams and get the easy win, but they still come to play and post big numbers.

[molson]

And BSU needed the last minute to get their best win against an ACC team, what is your point?

It sucks for Boise St. that VT blew their season against James Madison, but VT has run the table since then, and they'll end up in the top 10 or so if they can get through their last 3 games (all of which they'll be favored in).

Saying they "struggled" against VT isn't really convincing of whatever point you're trying to make. VT is a very good team. Auburn struggled against Mississippi St, Clemson, Kentucky - all teams not as good as VT. Again, not saying Auburn doesn't deserve to be in the national championship game if they win out, but it does seem like the only ones that think the gap between them and TCU/Boise St. is HUGE is message board posters. Obviously the voters, computers, and most analysts do see the gap being a lot smaller. (yes, I know, they're all idiots or whatever, but we only have so much to go on). But really, it's a big incomplete to me - I don't see how you can see the season of Boise St/TCU and come to definitive conclusions about how they'd fare against other top 10 teams. Certainly they'd be favored in most of them. I guess we'll see come bowl season (though that hasn't necessarily changed anyone's mind in the past).

SEC Contenders obviously have the tougher gauntlet, but Boise St/TCU has their own challenges/margin of error. Boise St/TCU has to beat everyone by 30. They can't have the occasional closer game like Auburn has had against weaker teams. Utah St. is a BAD team and they almost beat Oklahoma. Boise St. can't have a game like that against Utah St (even if they end up winning). They have to win that game by 30ish to be taken seriously. (They lost a bunch of votes after they only beat LA-Tech by 29).

[Matthean]

I was responding to his comment about NFL players coming from those schools.

The Tide has all NFL athletes on their defense.

So 'Bama on paper really shouldn't get posted for 250 passing yards in a half? 'Bama shouldn't be letting a team with well known offensive issues simply go down the field with nothing, but running plays and score a TD? You know, since they have all NFL talent on defense. I'm willing to bet OU had way more NFL talent on it's team when BSU beat them.

[Lathum]

So 'Bama on paper really shouldn't get posted for 250 passing yards in a half? 'Bama shouldn't be letting a team with well known offensive issues simply go down the field with nothing, but running plays and score a TD? You know, since they have all NFL talent on defense. I'm willing to bet OU had way more NFL talent on it's team when BSU beat them.

And in a bubble maybe BSU beats Alabama, but in the context of a full SEC schedule no chance they do, there would be way to much attrition.

Perhaps I should have said Alabama wins 9/10 times. BSU has talent are well coached, but they are playing against ab inferior level of competition every week.

I can probably name 10-15 teams who would be undefeated right now with BSUs schedule, 5 alone from the SEC.

[jbergey22]

I dunno.

Boise returned something like 20 starters from last years team that ran the table. Alabama has better athletes but that doesnt always decide the outcome. Boise just destroyed a decent Hawaii team yesterday and has dominated their competition this year. Boise St just keeps proving people wrong.

[molson]

I just wish I could get a bet, "Boise St. +20" in their bowl game. (Bet only takes effect if it's a BCS bowl, top 10 opponent, you know, the kind of school that would obviously wipe the floor with Boise St.) Just out of curiosity, would anybody take that bet right now?

[jbergey22]

I just wish I could get a bet, "Boise St. +20" in their bowl game. (Bet only takes effect if it's a BCS bowl, top 10 opponent, you know, the kind of school that would obviously wipe the floor with Boise St.) Just out of curiosity, would anybody take that bet right now?

Even if they played Oregon at Oregon Id feel very confident in Boise St +20. Anything more than 10 on a neutral site would seem like a gift to me.

[JonInMiddleGA]

VT is a very good team.

"Very good" teams do not barely survive against GT with a backup QB.

[Karlifornia]

If you don't think Boise State is a very good football team, then you're insane. Boise St. and TCU both play less than "name" schedules, but to think these teams are incapable of competing with AQ teams would be shortsighted and, more bluntly, fuckin' stupid.

Do I need to point to the Oklahoma/Boise State Fiesta Bowl? This Boise team is better than that one, and they ran with an OU team that had one of the best running backs of the past decade on it.

Utah raped a 1-loss (zero losses in the vaunted ESS-EE-CEE regular season) Alabama team in the Sugar Bowl.

But yes, yes. None of that matters. This years Auburn team is way better than that Alabama team. Undefeated in the SEC Alabama from 2 years ago couldn't even stay on the field with this years Auburn team, right?


Well, a 2-loss Alabama team from this year just may beat those vaunted Auburn Tigers.

These teams are not pushovers. TV Ratings should not decide championships on the field. I know some people sold their souls to sell advertising, but advertising dollars do not equal athletic achievement. This is not a WWE soap opera for men. This is football. It's unscripted. May the best team win on any given day, from any given place, from any given conference.

[sterlingice]

My point isn't that TCU could beat one of them head to head, my point is do you really think TCU is undefeated right now with Auburns schedule?

As I've said every year for the last X million, it would be nice if the SEC were taken to task for the non-conference crap they have instead of given a pass "because they're the SEC", tho. Auburn has Clemson, which is merely ok this year. Then they piled on Arkansas St, Louisiana-Monroe, and Chatanooga. If everyone keeps letting them get away with this, we're going to keep having crap non-conference games and very few which prove how good one conference is versus another.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt10.htm

The gap is there, but because of that fluff Auburn backfilled their schedule with, they're 40th in the country for SOS despite playing in the SEC while TCU is 62nd in their creampuff conference because . Oregon isn't much better at 36, for the record.

And they don't take the regular week in week out beatings top tier teams take. That makes it a lot easier to stay healthy enough to administer regular beatings.

The only weeks all season Auburn has played teams with a winning record this season were Clemson-South Carolina and Arkansas-LSU, with all 4 games at home.

SI

[CU Tiger]

Am I alone in thinking this call is about as indefensible as it gets?

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<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/47ei-Vix7Dk?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="385" width="640"></object>

It was bad, no doubt. My biggest issue s the explanation that the player was ruled down, yet I've yet to see a replay that you can hear any whistle before he touches the ground. This is one of a growing number of calls I see where the refs convene and then make a call, that seems designed to be unreviewable. If they call this an incomplete (as you can see a ref signal on the field prior to the call) replay would clearly (IMHO) overturn it to a fumble, so to save face they say he was down. That is unreviewable and keeps the ebb and flow of the game.

I am at the point of suspecting high level conspiracy amongst the conferences. Clearly in that game it would have been better for the SEC for SC to win, despite the fact the Arkansas is clearly a better team.

If you want to see bad officiating see if the Clemson NCSU game from this weekend is anywhere online. Amongst the blown calls:
A fair catch interference when there was not a player with 5 yards of the receiver.
A Pass Interference call when the DB was badly beat and the receiver was wide alone in the open field. Literally 20 yards to the nearest player.
A Delay of game call, where there was still 6 seconds on the play clock when the whistle was blown.

There were several more, but it was atrocious. The refs had to be escorted to their van, and had a 5 car surround on the highway..that was after a Clemson win...

[VPI97]

To be fair, that game was not as close as the score indicated, but you already know that because you watched it right?
I'm not sure if you're saying that to try and help BSU's case, but if so, you'd be incorrect. After spotting Boise a 17 point lead, VT controlled the last three quarters. If they make another first down on their next to last drive, they win.

Also the first game of the season which tends to mean a lot less in people's eyes since teams are working out kinks still.
All teams are working out kinks, but in BSU's case (20 returning starters), it wasn't as big of an issue with the Broncos as it was for all other teams. I think that was a reason for them jumping out to a 17-0 lead in that first quarter...not a reason to explain why they "only" won by 3.

Saying they "struggled" against VT isn't really convincing of whatever point you're trying to make. VT is a very good team.
No we're not. We're "good" (i.e. should be ranked in the 15-25 range), but nothing better than that. Our defense is the worst it's been in over a decade and our running game (which was supposed to be our strength) is inconsistent at best. We've built a 7-2 record based on beating bad teams (Duke, Wake, etc) and scraping out close wins over decent teams (NCSU, GT). The next two weeks will be our toughest games of the season...maybe if we win convincingly over UNC and Miami, we'll be a "very good" team. But right now, I'm not convinced that's going to happen.

[RomaGoth]

As I've said every year for the last X million, it would be nice if the SEC were taken to task for the non-conference crap they have instead of given a pass "because they're the SEC", tho. Auburn has Clemson, which is merely ok this year. Then they piled on Arkansas St, Louisiana-Monroe, and Chatanooga. If everyone keeps letting them get away with this, we're going to keep having crap non-conference games and very few which prove how good one conference is versus another.
SI

One of the big issues I see is that the SEC is going on reputation, not actual games, talent, schedule, and coaching. Forgive me if I don't think that a 6-3 Florida team should even be near the top-25 right now, and while I don't know who should be there instead of them, I am positive they are only there because of who they are and what they have done in the past. The fact that there are 7 SEC teams in the top-25 proves my point that it is all part of the good 'ol boy network.

[RomaGoth]

I'm not sure if you're saying that to try and help BSU's case, but if so, you'd be incorrect. After spotting Boise a 17 point lead, VT controlled the last three quarters. If they make another first down on their next to last drive, they win.


All teams are working out kinks, but in BSU's case (20 returning starters), it wasn't as big of an issue with the Broncos as it was for all other teams. I think that was a reason for them jumping out to a 17-0 lead in that first quarter...not a reason to explain why they "only" won by 3.

There is no need to "help BSU's case" as you say. They have proven over the past 3-4 years that they deserve their ranking and can play with anyone. The game against VT was the first game of the year, on the road, and while it was close at the end, BSU was clearly the better team. None of it really matters though, what matters is that they won the game. One of the many problems with the BCS is that a team like BSU needs to beat everyone by 30 points, and if they don't, they don't get taken seriously which is just absurd.

[Lathum]

If you don't think Boise State is a very good football team, then you're insane. Boise St. and TCU both play less than "name" schedules, but to think these teams are incapable of competing with AQ teams would be shortsighted and, more bluntly, fuckin' stupid.
.


BSU has talent are well coached, but they are playing against ab inferior level of competition every week.
.

And again people are missing the point. I actually went out of my way to claim BSU is a good team, they are a tremendous team that in a one game scenario can beat anyone. My point is that if they were to play in the SEC, or even the Big 10 or Big 12 they no way go undefeated.

Even the shitty teams like Tennessee are putting guys into the NFL and have superior talent to the teams BSU plays every week.

[RomaGoth]

And again people are missing the point. I actually went out of my way to claim BSU is a good team, they are a tremendous team that in a one game scenario can beat anyone. My point is that if they were to play in the SEC, or even the Big 10 or Big 12 they no way go undefeated.

And again I say there is no way for you to know this, it is just your subjective opinion and nothing more.

Even the shitty teams like Tennessee are putting guys into the NFL and have superior talent to the teams BSU plays every week.

Why are you stuck on the NFL players argument? BSU has a heisman candidate QB and three great receivers, not to mention a fantastic and fast defense. Last I checked, putting more guys into the NFL doesn't give you an automatic championship. Just ask the Miami Hurricanes and Oklahoma Sooners.

[Lathum]

One of the big issues I see is that the SEC is going on reputation, not actual games, talent, schedule, and coaching. Forgive me if I don't think that a 6-3 Florida team should even be near the top-25 right now, and while I don't know who should be there instead of them, I am positive they are only there because of who they are and what they have done in the past. The fact that there are 7 SEC teams in the top-25 proves my point that it is all part of the good 'ol boy network.

SEC had 49 players drafted last year...

Now you may value that differently than I do, but when you are facing NFL caliber talent week in week out, IMO, there is going to be some attrition.

Kellen Moore is a great talent, but he will go through the whole season facing maybe 1-2 defensive players who will make the NFL. Auburn will face NFL caliber defensive players 6-7 times this season, and multiple players on the same teams.

[Lathum]

Why are you stuck on the NFL players argument? BSU has a heisman candidate QB and three great receivers, not to mention a fantastic and fast defense. Last I checked, putting more guys into the NFL doesn't give you an automatic championship. Just ask the Miami Hurricanes and Oklahoma Sooners.

Not saying it gives you an automatic title, but NFL caliber players=better competition faced. I don't see how you can argue this. If Auburn and Cam Newton are facing teams 6-7 times a season with guys who will play on NFL defensive lines and BSU faces none don't you think that gives BSUs passing game an advantage?

[molson]

SEC had 49 players drafted last year...

Now you may value that differently than I do, but when you are facing NFL caliber talent week in week out, IMO, there is going to be some attrition.

Kellen Moore is a great talent, but he will go through the whole season facing maybe 1-2 defensive players who will make the NFL. Auburn will face NFL caliber defensive players 6-7 times this season, and multiple players on the same teams.

I think this shows how even if we had a playoff, there would still be controversy. A Boise St. or TCU could get through 3-4 playoff games and there would still be talk that it was only because they were so well rested. (Unless all the SEC teams got 1st-round playoff byes because they're in the SEC).

Bottom line for Auburn their ridiculous non-conference schedule guaranteed they'd have no shot at a national championship unless they go undefeated, AND there was only 1 other undefeated BCS team. That scenario could very well play out, but one loss and they're done. 'Bama still controlled its destiny until last week but they're done now too. 1-loss LSU I think is basically a BCS rating dead heat with an undefeated Boise St./TCU (depending on who they got in an SEC Championship game). And I think that's it for national championship contenders now unless all of those teams lose. They other 1-loss teams look too far back, considering the number of games we have left, and the fact that Boise St. still has a ranked team on its schedule (yes, I know Nevada would go winless in the SEC or whatever, but I'm just talking voters/computers/reality here).

[RomaGoth]

(Unless all the SEC teams got 1st-round playoff byes because they're in the SEC).

I can see this happening.

[Lathum]

Why are you stuck on the NFL players argument? BSU has a heisman candidate QB and three great receivers, not to mention a fantastic and fast defense. Last I checked, putting more guys into the NFL doesn't give you an automatic championship. Just ask the Miami Hurricanes and Oklahoma Sooners.

Look at the teams consistently in the top 5-10 every year. OSU, Oklahoma, USC, Florida, Texas, Alabama, LSU...

Now look at the teams who put the most players into the NFL, I bet that list matches up pretty nicely.

[MJ4H]

I am at the point of suspecting high level conspiracy amongst the conferences. Clearly in that game it would have been better for the SEC for SC to win, despite the fact the Arkansas is clearly a better team.




You should watch more of our games. We get at least one, if not two or more, completely ludicrous calls like this in every one of our big SEC games. It is getting more and more difficult not to suspect something.

[dawgfan]

You should watch more of our games. We get at least one, if not two or more, completely ludicrous calls like this in every one of our big SEC games. It is getting more and more difficult not to suspect something.
I love it - even when it comes to officiating, the SEC guys have to claim #1. Well, I'm here to tell you that just like in the quality of the football teams, the Pac-10 can give the SEC a legitimate run for the money in the debate about "which conference has the worst football officiating?"

;)

[cartman]

I don't know... Seemed like Simms pretty much beat the teams he was supposed to beat. My memory was that he just couldn't win when it counted the most.

Gilbert is not as bad as his stats would indicate. If his receivers weren't dropping balls, he would have much better numbers, including far fewer interceptions. And he's young. He's going to get better with recognition. In my opinion, Texas needs to be far more worried about the fact that they don't seem to have anyone making plays on any kind of consistent basis at all.

I mean more from the point of view of teammate perception. Even though Simms put up some impressive stats, the feeling was more 'how is he gonna screw up' than the 'he's gonna lead us to victory' when Applewhite was in the game. Texas got spoiled over the past seven or so seasons when VY and McCoy were the clear team leaders, and the team fed off of them. Right now the team has no clear player leaders, and it doesn't appear like Gilbert is wanting or able to step into that role. You could see the defense seem to admit that there was no way the offense was going to be able to recover from a two score deficit.

[BishopMVP]

When TCU plays for the national title, will people stop arguing that the BCS doesn't give "the little guy"/non-AQ teams a chance?

[jbergey22]

When TCU plays for the national title, will people stop arguing that the BCS doesn't give "the little guy"/non-AQ teams a chance?

Id rather see Boise St get the chance. They beat TCU last year and returned 20 starters(I know computers dont look at that) and feel they are more deserving.

[RomaGoth]

When TCU plays for the national title, will people stop arguing that the BCS doesn't give "the little guy"/non-AQ teams a chance?

no

[molson]

When TCU plays for the national title, will people stop arguing that the BCS doesn't give "the little guy"/non-AQ teams a chance?

Probably not considering it would be the first time in 14 years. I think the BCS can live with a 1-every-14-years party crasher in years where there's no pair of clear dominant BCS teams.

I'm not saying any other school necessarily deserved it in those 14 years, just answering the question. The addition of the national championship game in addition of the 4 BCS games (instead of just choosing one of the 4 BCS games as the title game) really has made the BCS itself accessable for non-AQ teams. Which has probably suceeded in holding off a playoff for another few decades or so. TCU or Boise St. getting a rare title-game appearance would help even more, "see, we don't need a playoff, everyone has a chance!"

[Lathum]

Exactly what Molson said. People who are fans of the "little guy" want a one loss Auburn to jump an undefeated TCU/BSU for a spot in the title game. Then maybe they get the changes they want, but I doubt it.

[RomaGoth]

Exactly what Molson said. People who are fans of the "little guy" want a one loss Auburn to jump an undefeated TCU/BSU for a spot in the title game. Then maybe they get the changes they want, but I doubt it.

Are you saying that you like the BCS system as it stands?

[Lathum]

Are you saying that you like the BCS system as it stands?

How can you possibly interpret what I said as an endorsement for the BCS?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Exactly what Molson said. People who are fans of the "little guy" want a one loss Auburn to jump an undefeated TCU/BSU for a spot in the title game. Then maybe they get the changes they want, but I doubt it.

People who aren't fans of them pretty much want the same thing, now that you mention it.

See? Common ground is possible.

[Lathum]

dola-

And to answer your question I don't have as big an issue with it as some. Would I love to see a playoff, of course, but I just don't see that happening. And even with a playoff how many teams get in, 8? There will be that ninth team that gets screwed.

The way the BCS works is every week is a playoff. Teams like Auburn and Stanford earlier in the year know one loss and they are out of contention. It makes the regular season much more meaningful.

[RomaGoth]

Exactly what Molson said. People who are fans of the "little guy" want a one loss Auburn to jump an undefeated TCU/BSU for a spot in the title game. Then maybe they get the changes they want, but I doubt it.

How can you possibly interpret what I said as an endorsement for the BCS?

I wasn't interpreting anything, just asking if you are happy with the BCS as it is currently in place. Just from the the way you worded your last sentence above, it sounded like you are either on the fence or pro-BCS. I don't care if you like the BCS or not, was just curious is all.

[thealmighty]

Id rather see Boise St get the chance. They beat TCU last year and returned 20 starters(I know computers dont look at that) and feel they are more deserving.

TCU returned 19 starters.

[digamma]

No we're not. We're "good" (i.e. should be ranked in the 15-25 range), but nothing better than that. Our defense is the worst it's been in over a decade and our running game (which was supposed to be our strength) is inconsistent at best. We've built a 7-2 record based on beating bad teams (Duke, Wake, etc) and scraping out close wins over decent teams (NCSU, GT). The next two weeks will be our toughest games of the season...maybe if we win convincingly over UNC and Miami, we'll be a "very good" team. But right now, I'm not convinced that's going to happen.

I'm not convinced UNC and Miami will end up being your toughest games. I could see the NCSU rematch being a tougher game if they make the ACC title game. I'm not sold on the new guy from Miami, if Harris is still injured (or on Harris for that matter). And UNC is fairly pedestrian.

[RainMaker]

When TCU plays for the national title, will people stop arguing that the BCS doesn't give "the little guy"/non-AQ teams a chance?
That won't happen. I keep telling you guys that non-AQ schools are not eligible for the pretend NC. You'll find out this year when two of the best non-AQ ever go undefeated and miss out. Likely to teams they are better than.

[tarcone]

BSU vs. TCU in the Fiesta Bowl winner gets Oregon.

That shuts up everyone.

[jbergey22]

TCU returned 19 starters.

Phil Steele has them for 16.

Despite that dont you think Boise should get the chance before TCU? Boise didnt lose last season and hasnt lost this season.

I'd be pretty pissed off if they choose TCU over Boise St in the National Championship game.

Boise has 2 BCS bowl victories under their belt. I think they have proven they deserve a shot.

[molson]

BSU vs. TCU in the Fiesta Bowl winner gets Oregon.

That shuts up everyone.

5 BCS bowls (add the Cotton Bowl or something), THEN a national championship game, with the participants determined after the bowls, might be a nice compromise.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Despite that dont you think Boise should get the chance before TCU? Boise didnt lose last season and hasnt lost this season.

And played an even shittier schedule last year than this year (Sagarin SOS (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt09.htm)for Boise ended up being 96th, TCU's was 60th)

So, in a word, no.

[RainMaker]

BSU vs. TCU in the Fiesta Bowl winner gets Oregon.

That shuts up everyone.
How about a playoff with the best teams to determine who is the best team? Sort of like how every other major professional sport does things.

[panerd]

How about a playoff with the best teams to determine who is the best team? Sort of like how every other major professional sport does things.

Easy answer (and this is from 4 years ago). What other sporting event has a huge money making moster like this? Each game in an even an 8 team playoff would have to bring in 20 to 25 million dollars. Exlplain how that will happen?

BOWL PAYOUT BREAKDOWN

Bowl Per team payout

Poinsettia $750,000

Pioneer PureVision Las Vegas $950,000

R+L Carriers New Orleans $325,000

Papajohns.com $300,000

New Mexico $750,000

Bell Helicopter Armed Forces $600,000

Sheraton Hawaii $398,000

Motor City $750,000

Emerald $850,000

PetroSun Independence $1.1 million

Texas $500,000 for Big East, $750,000 for Big 12

Pacific Life Holiday $2.2 million

Gaylord Hotels Music City $1.6 million

Brut Sun $1.9 million

AutoZone Liberty $1.5 million

Insight $1.2 million

Champs Sports $2.25 million

Meineke Car Care $750,000

Alamo $2.2 million

Chick-fil-A $3.25 million for ACC, $2.4 million for SEC

MPC Computers $250,000

Outback $3 million

AT&T Cotton $3 million

Toyota Gator $2.25 million

Capital One $4.25 million

Rose $17 million **

Tostitos Fiesta $17 million ***

FedEx Orange $17 million

Allstate Sugar $17 million *,**

International $750,000

GMAC $750,000

Tostitos BCS Championship $17 million

[BishopMVP]

That won't happen. I keep telling you guys that non-AQ schools are not eligible for the pretend NC. You'll find out this year when two of the best non-AQ ever go undefeated and miss out. Likely to teams they are better than.Not only is that wrong, but you use it as a cop-out argument to preclude legitimate discussion. Boise State is in line to be jumped by multiple one-loss teams (and I do agree the voters will not allow a TCU-Boise title game) but with Alabama's loss only Auburn has an outside shot at being the 1-loss team that gets a shot over undefeated TCU.

TCU is already 2nd in almost every computer, the computers hate all the Big Ten teams, voters won't bump 1-loss LSU over them when they won't even win their division, and Nebraska's best chance for a marquee win is @ Texas A&M (not going to get them enough credit), or in the B12 title game vs. Oklahoma State (already beat them once - a second win will only devalue the first) Baylor (TCU smoked them) or multiple loss Oklahoma (their best chance, but still not enough). Stanford has the Oregon glass ceiling similar to how LSU does with respect to Auburn.

It's all a moot point if Oregon and Auburn win out, but if either one loses TCU is in the title game barring a loss to SDSU. Of course, as RomaGoth was kind enough to admit, it won't stop the bitching about the BCS, even in respect to the claim that it doesn't give non-AQ teams a shot.

[molson]

How about a playoff with the best teams to determine who is the best team? Sort of like how every other major professional sport does things.

Who's going to do that? The current system makes money and sports are based on money, not fairness. And you can't really compare the pro leagues, which are all centrally organized groups of teams which are all, in theory, equal. Even if Congress, god forbid, ordered an NCAA playoff, the BCS schools would just withdraw and we'd have a "National Championship Tournament" with the Mountain West and WAC.

Everything in college sports in based on arbitrary divisions. People get all up in arms about MWC and WAC having an equal chance, but why, just because they're in the same division? They're in the same division in name only. They're not entitled to an equal path to a championship any more than the Newark Bears are entitled to an equal shot at the World Series.

They've gained a ton of ground. WAC/MWC regularly making BCS bowls would have been unthinkable just a few years ago. Now they have a pretty meaningful part of the pie. They'd be smart to try to use that to their advantage and not get too greedy.

Boise St. in the Rose Bowl would be no disappointed to that program. That's a HUGE payday they never would have had access to not too long ago. Who the hell goes from Junior College to Rose Bowl in 30 years? BSU is in great shape as a football program, I don't think they're looking to blow things up anytime soon.