World Wide Leader in...Screwups?

[Suburban Rhythm]

Hadn't seen anything about either of these

Will Selva, Ron Franklin making news in New Year - Richard Deitsch - SI.com (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/richard_deitsch/01/03/media.franklin/index.html?eref=sihp)


On Sunday, the Web site SportsbyBrooks reported that longtime ESPN broadcaster Ron Franklin was pulled from the radio broadcast of the Fiesta Bowl after he allegedly referred to colleague Jeannine Edwards as "sweet cakes" before the start of a meeting with Florida State coaches Friday for the Chick-fil-A Bowl. Edwards told Franklin that she did not appreciate being addressed that way. That prompted Franklin to allegedly say, "OK then, a--hole."



The Franklin-Edwards exchange was the second high-profile incident involving an ESPN on-air talent recently. Last week, ESPN anchor Will Selva was suspended for plagarizing several sentences of a Lakers story written by the Orange County Register's Kevin Ding. The reporter first brought Selva's swipe to public attention via his Twitter account and Lakers blog. Selva apologized through ESPN's communications department.

[RainMaker]

ESPN celebrates Mangini's firing? (http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/sports/football/browns/espn-celebrates-manginis-firing)

[Logan]

ESPN is just a dirty, dirty company from a personnel standpoint.

[Ksyrup]

Isn't there a book coming out in the next 6 months that's supposed to air all the dirty laundry? At least, the laundry Deadspin hasn't already aired?

[Ksyrup]

Also, apparently they are cleaning up their act in anticipation of that book. Supposedly Erik Kuselius wasn't renewed for that reason.

[panerd]

Who cares? They announce games and recap sports why should I give a shit if they harass each other? I enjoy porn and I am sure it gets a lot worse than that.

[Logan]

Who cares? They announce games and recap sports why should I give a shit if they harass each other? I enjoy porn and I am sure it gets a lot worse than that.

You'd probably care if you're an investor in Disney. Seems like only a matter of time until someone over there fucks up enough that advertisers could threaten to walk.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Yippee, a solid veteran announcer has now been fired over saying something to some bitch who basically knows horseracing. Let's all celebrate this.

Ah well, it isn't the first time he's been treated stupidly by the network, he's been steadily demoted after dealing with an insipid twit on air in what was actually pretty kind fashion.

During a 2005 Notre Dame-Purdue broadcast, Mr. Franklin and Holly Rowe were involved in a minor incident, which led to Ron Franklin being relegated to ESPN2 broadcasts and now regional games this season.

With Notre Dame blowing out Purdue, Holly Rowe praised the defensive coordinator of Purdue for using the team's timeouts towards the end of a blowout loss.

Holly Rowe added to her praise this comment: "If the coaches are giving up, what does that say to the players?"

Mr. Franklin responded with, "Holly, it's not giving up. It's 49-21, sweetheart."

[TargetPractice6]

Surely he realized that calling a woman "sweet cakes" or "sweetheart" on air wasn't exactly going to be a good career move, though.

[Logan]

This thread has taken a SHOCKING turn.

[Draft Dodger]

it's the bitches fault, of course

[Ksyrup]

Wait, did he get fired, or just demoted for last weekend's game?

[panerd]

This thread has taken a SHOCKING turn.

it's the bitches fault, of course

No, but it isn't exactly ground breaking news either. Like SteveBollea said... a bunch of jocks and people around sports as a career. Fire Ron Franklin for all I care but he isa great announcer. If the masses want more Dick Vitale and Kirk Herbstreet than let them have them. Franklin does a lot of Big 12 stuff so I guess I will reap the benefits of somebody who is a pleasure to listen to.

[RainMaker]

Yeah, I don't really care all that much about the sexual harrasment or whatever stuff. Pretty crazy that something that innocent is grounds for termination in the sporting world.

Although I do find it amusing when ESPN pretends to play news organization and have some standards when 99% of the time they have no standards (see "The Decision").

[JonInMiddleGA]

Surely he realized that calling a woman "sweet cakes" or "sweetheart" on air wasn't exactly going to be a good career move, though.

They weren't on-air, it was before a meeting. Not necessarily relevant to human resources, just saying. And just for the record, according to Edwards (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2011/01/jeannine-edwards-ron-franklin-called-me-sweet-baby-not-sweet-cakes/1) it was "sweet baby".

Judging from the context, it seems likely that the term was indeed meant to be condescending but used as a euphemism for something much nastier (based on his choice of "asshole") that a nearly 70 year old native Southerner wasn't planning to use on a woman.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Wait, did he get fired, or just demoted for last weekend's game?

Terminated a little earlier today.

[RainMaker]

Um, call a women under you 'sweetcakes' on the corporate ladder in an environment where HR can hear and see how that goes for you.
It's not the corporate ladder though, it's a sports network that's sole basis is entertainment. Would Ryan Seacrest or Chelsea Handler get fired for saying something like this on their shows?

[DaddyTorgo]

Um, call a women under you 'sweetcakes' on the corporate ladder in an environment where HR can hear and see how that goes for you.

As for Jon, it's good to see along with being anti-gay and anti-Muslim, he's also a misogynist. Because God forbid a woman who ya' know, went to school to become a broadcast journalist doesn't want to be treated like a waitress at a wing joint.

Gotta agree with Steve here.

[Sun Tzu]

I'm just happy that JimGA posted in this here.

[RomaGoth]

This thread has taken a SHOCKING turn.

Countdown until thread implosion...10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-....:popcorn:

[TroyF]

Just because you WANT to say something doesn't mean you CAN say something.

He got what he deserved.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Um, call a women under you 'sweetcakes' on the corporate ladder in an environment where HR can hear and see how that goes for you.

And we see how well a focus on p.c. instead of quality has worked for so many American businesses lately. Oh, wait.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm just happy that JimGA posted in this here.

And it's always a pleasure to see you to.

Oh. Wait.

[molson]

It's not the corporate ladder though, it's a sports network that's sole basis is entertainment. Would Ryan Seacrest or Chelsea Handler get fired for saying something like this on their shows?

I'm sure Ryan Seacrest would get away with a little more harassment then some old football announcer.

ESPN has enough personnel problems, they don't need replaceable old curmudgeons harassing the younger talent behind the scenes. This is the kind of guy that would definitely be a risk to take the next step (sexual harassment, abuse), if you put your stamp of approval on this stuff.

[RomaGoth]

U.S. Corporate Profits Hit Record in Third Quarter - NYTimes.com (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/24/business/economy/24econ.html)

Seriously? I believe the thread you want is that way ------>

[JonInMiddleGA]

they don't need replaceable old curmudgeons harassing the younger talent behind the scenes.

Given some of the abysmal work we're subjected to, I think "replaceable" is a legitimate question in this case.

Meanwhile, the word "talent" really doesn't seem appropriate. Is anyone actually suggesting she brings anything to the college sports table other than a quota slot for HR purposes?

[Pumpy Tudors]

Regardless of whether you think Ron Franklin should have been fired or whether you think it was defensible, I would at least think he'd be smart enough to realize that if you want to keep your job, you don't do that. Hard for me to feel sorry for the guy. Some actions have pretty predictable consequences. Right or wrong, getting fired or at least reprimanded should be considered a likely outcome. Of course, I haven't seen anything where he's griping about it, so I guess the point is moot.

It's really not that hard. If you don't want to get fired, don't do shit that'll get you fired.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Sorry I even posted this. My intent was to get a laugh over a shitty network that most of us here find as a necessary evil.

Didn't realize that even something as innocent as some dumb fucks at ESPN could turn into a dick swinging contest. Connecting this to the crumbling US economy? Lighten the fuck up.

[RainMaker]

ESPN has enough personnel problems, they don't need replaceable old curmudgeons harassing the younger talent behind the scenes. This is the kind of guy that would definitely be a risk to take the next step (sexual harassment, abuse), if you put your stamp of approval on this stuff.
The next step? The guy made an un-PC remark to a woman. Lot of older guys out there do it, just a generational thing (not saying it's right). The crap Mike Tirico pulled in the 90's, or what some others have done is understandable for termination. But the guy made an off-color remark. Make him apologize, suspend him for a couple weeks, and move on.

[molson]

The next step? The guy made an un-PC remark to a woman. Lot of older guys out there do it, just a generational thing (not saying it's right). The crap Mike Tirico pulled in the 90's, or what some others have done is understandable for termination. But the guy made an off-color remark. Make him apologize, suspend him for a couple weeks, and move on.

It's not an off-color remark. It's not saying an offensive word (as you characterized it in your previous post). The words themselves aren't even that bad. It's about demeaning a co-worker and using 1950s ideas of gender roles to do it.

Maybe there's room for argument what the punishment should be, but he was not punished for saying a bad word. This isn't some women overhearing a couple of guys refer to LPGA players as lesbos or something. It's specific conduct towards a specific co-worker.

[RainMaker]

And we see how well a focus on p.c. instead of quality has worked for so many American businesses lately. Oh, wait.
While I agree with how silly it is to fire the guy, I don't think it's a sign of businesses disregarding quality. I think it's more about being scared shitless of lawsuits.

My first job out of college had a guy who was an amazing sales guy but crude as fuck. This guy outsold everyone and was a magician with people. But around women, he was a total baffoon. Got about 4-5 complaints from women in the office that at some point they had to let him go despite how good he was. Remember talking to the boss years down the road about it and he said they wanted to keep him badly but were so afraid of getting a big lawsuit if they let it continue.

[dawgfan]

The crap Mike Tirico pulled in the 90's, or what some others have done is understandable for termination.
I must have missed it - what did Tirico do?

[dawgfan]

Dola - nevermind, found it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

It's about demeaning a co-worker and using 1950s ideas of gender roles to do it.

A lot of folks have co-workers who are worthy of being demeaned (demention? demeanable?), it's a sign of how far we've slipped as a society that we can't identify that.

I genuinely question whether given what little we know of the context this was anything more than casual word choice. Hell, I know a significant number of women who use variations on the same word, often with considerable bite to it, are we to believe they're all misogynists as well?

We have no idea, beyond what she's said about the conversation being something about another announcer's wife being elected mayor of a California city, what prompted the remark. For all we know she said something mind-bogglingly stupid or even downright offensive & he was responding to that with someone less blatant than his second choice.

For all we know, Franklin was being an asshat. But for all we know, she had much worse coming to her & he's a p.c. victim. What we do know is that he's one of the best in the business at what he does while she could vanish from the airwaves forever tonight & no one would ever notice the difference.

[Drake]

If that will get you fired, I should have been fired about 100 times over, and I work for a major American university. Of course, prior to his retirement this summer, my boss would always hold me after meetings to give me his opinion on every set of breasts that had been present, so maybe it's not a huge surprise. He generally referred to women in our office as "pair of tits".

I'm guessing he wouldn't have lasted long at ESPN.

[TroyF]

Regardless of whether you think Ron Franklin should have been fired or whether you think it was defensible, I would at least think he'd be smart enough to realize that if you want to keep your job, you don't do that. Hard for me to feel sorry for the guy. Some actions have pretty predictable consequences. Right or wrong, getting fired or at least reprimanded should be considered a likely outcome. Of course, I haven't seen anything where he's griping about it, so I guess the point is moot.

It's really not that hard. If you don't want to get fired, don't do shit that'll get you fired.



This is what it comes down to. I know if I said that to a coworker, I'd lose my job. Period. So if I want to keep my job, I don't call someone sweet cakes.

I have a hard time feeling sorry for a guy who should know better.

I haven't paid attention to her to know why she's hired, but my guess is she probably has no business near the sidelines on a telecast. (quite frankly, most sideline reporters suck) But that's irrelevant to this discussion. He should have known better

[molson]

A lot of folks have co-workers who are worthy of being demeaned (demention? demeanable?), it's a sign of how far we've slipped as a society that we can't identify that.

I genuinely question whether given what little we know of the context this was anything more than casual word choice. Hell, I know a significant number of women who use variations on the same word, often with considerable bite to it, are we to believe they're all misogynists as well?

We have no idea, beyond what she's said about the conversation being something about another announcer's wife being elected mayor of a California city, what prompted the remark. For all we know she said something mind-bogglingly stupid or even downright offensive & he was responding to that with someone less blatant than his second choice.

For all we know, Franklin was being an asshat. But for all we know, she had much worse coming to her & he's a p.c. victim. What we do know is that he's one of the best in the business at what he does while she could vanish from the airwaves forever tonight & no one would ever notice the difference.

So criticizing someone's work in a professional manner is just off the table as an option?

[molson]

If that will get you fired, I should have been fired about 100 times over, and I work for a major American university. Of course, prior to his retirement this summer, my boss would always hold me after meetings to give me his opinion on every set of breasts that had been present, so maybe it's not a huge surprise. He generally referred to women in our office as "pair of tits".

I'm guessing he wouldn't have lasted long at ESPN.

Again, not the the same thing.

If a co-worker said something at a meeting he didn't like, and his response was, "ya, great answer, sweet tits", (and they didn't have the kind of relationship in which that could be construed as a friendly joke), we might be in the the ballpark.

[JonInMiddleGA]

So criticizing someone's work in a professional manner is just off the table as an option?

She's stated publicly that the context where it was said was not work-related (unless somehow a conversation about with a co-worker about their wife's political success is "work-related"). Based on her own description it seems to have been in a work environment at most & given the often casual nature of broadcast environments & especially in an off-site production meeting (which apparently hadn't started since they were b.s.'ing about another guy's wife).

edit to add:
The trouble started, she said, during a production meeting before Friday's Chick Fil-A Bowl that was also attended by ESPN announcers Rod Gilmore and Ed Cunningham.

Edwards says she was talking with Gilmore about his wife being elected mayor of Alameda, California. After a few minutes, she said Franklin joined in the conversation and said, "Listen to me sweet baby, let me tell you something . . . " with a condescending tone.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2011/01/jeannine-edwards-ron-franklin-called-me-sweet-baby-not-sweet-cakes/1

[SteveMax58]

I have a hard time feeling sorry for a guy who should know better.


I often wonder if things like this just happens to some people as they get older. Meaning...it's not that they don't (somewhere inside) "know" better...they just don't have the patience, capacity, whatever to give a shit or hold it in any more. Maybe it's actually more of an onset of Alzheimer's or something...IDK.

Just reminds me of the way my own father has changed throughout the years. He was never a crude guy (and still isn't really) but as he's gotten up in age he's just become a lot more...IDK if there's one word...but unwilling to put up with anything he perceives as nonsense seems to describe it.

[Draft Dodger]

I often wonder if things like this just happens to some people as they get older. Meaning...it's not that they don't (somewhere inside) "know" better...they just don't have the patience, capacity, whatever to give a shit or hold it in any more. Maybe it's actually more of an onset of Alzheimer's or something...IDK.

Just reminds me of the way my own father has changed throughout the years. He was never a crude guy (and still isn't really) but as he's gotten up in age he's just become a lot more...IDK if there's one word...but unwilling to put up with anything he perceives as nonsense seems to describe it.

yeah, he's certainly proven that theory again and again here, to the point where you almost start to feel sorry for the guy.

oh, you were talking about the Franklin dude? Nevermind.

[Drake]

I often wonder if things like this just happens to some people as they get older.

My dad has started calling all the women he knows/meets/works with "hon" and "sweetheart" over the last ten years or so.

[Drake]

Again, not the the same thing.

If a co-worker said something at a meeting he didn't like, and his response was, "ya, great answer, sweet tits", (and they didn't have the kind of relationship in which that could be construed as a friendly joke), we might be in the the ballpark.

You're right. He just degraded their intelligence and contribution directly in meetings. He only talked about their tits in private. ;)

[miami_fan]

Sorry I even posted this. My intent was to get a laugh over a shitty network that most of us here find as a necessary evil.

Didn't realize that even something as innocent as some dumb fucks at ESPN could turn into a dick swinging contest. Connecting this to the crumbling US economy? Lighten the fuck up.

You must be new around here.:p

[SteveMax58]

My dad has started calling all the women he knows/meets/works with "hon" and "sweetheart" over the last ten years or so.

That might be similar, or maybe even related. Almost more "grandfatherly" perhaps.

In this case...maybe its "grandfather knows best" and it doesn't quite work that way in the business world as despite your age/summation of experience...you are employee #439 & you are not to speak to employee #973 in a particular tone.

IDK...I never really heard of either of these 2 people and don't know that I've missed anything. I just wonder if this is something this guy would have even said 15 years ago or if it is just what happens to some people (typically termed crotchety).

[Abe Sargent]

I think part of this is regional. back in WV everybody called people of the other gender, hun, or dear, or sweetie or whatnot. I call all sorts of women darling, and I've never gotten in trouble for it despite the over sensitiveness of my field to crap like that


To me, the isuee here isn;t what he said at firs,t but when she requested that he not do so, he called her an asshole.

[Drake]

At least he didn't call her a c**t. I guess he has some sense of decorum.

[moriarty]

Also, apparently they are cleaning up their act in anticipation of that book. Supposedly Erik Kuselius wasn't renewed for that reason.

Wait, what ... when did that happen? I liked Erik ... he used to have a good radio show.

[Ksyrup]

He has a new show on the golf channel, left at the end of the year. According to Deadspin, they let him go because of past indiscretions as part of a clean-up of the "horndoggery" as they call it. ESPN spun it as if he got a job and left on his own. I'm sure the truth is somewhere in between. But he's gone.

[miami_fan]

Wait, what ... when did that happen? I liked Erik ... he used to have a good radio show.

Golf Channel where he can do his thing in peace.

[moriarty]

Maybe this is his thing at the golf channel: http://images.thegolfchannel.com/images/element2009/357770.jpg

Note to self, need to watch more golf channel. Setting up the DVR for "Top10" hosted by Lauren Thompson.

[Lathum]

The next step? The guy made an un-PC remark to a woman. Lot of older guys out there do it, just a generational thing (not saying it's right). .

So if he called someone a ni**er would that be OK, since he is older people from his generation probably used that word casually.

[RomaGoth]

Maybe this is his thing at the golf channel: http://images.thegolfchannel.com/images/element2009/357770.jpg

Note to self, need to watch more golf channel. Setting up the DVR for "Top10" hosted by Lauren Thompson.

I had to google her and I must say....wowza.

[MikeVic]

I had to google her and I must say....wowza.

That's it, you're fired off of FOFC. How dare you call her wowza!?!?

I think it's ridiculous to be fired over this, but what the hell do I know.

[RomaGoth]

That's it, you're fired off of FOFC. How dare you call her wowza!?!?

I think it's ridiculous to be fired over this, but what the hell do I know.

Good thing I am favored bitch #2 then eh?

[Mustang]

Darn shame that Mel Gibson made sugar tits unusable.

[MikeVic]

Good thing I am favored bitch #2 then eh?

What the, why are you and Lathum favored bitches?

[tarcone]

In the 80s, Iowa football coach Hayden Fry was quoted in the paper, saying "You need to find a lil dumplin to do your wash then you taker her out to eat."

The lesbian-Feminist professors were all up in arms. They protested and whined and cried. The rest of the women in the state wore shirts that said "I would be proud to be Hayden Frys lil dumplin".

The woman should have said "Thank you" and went on with her life.

[molson]

This thread really shows, once again, how much further we are in this country with regards to racism and homophobia v. sexism. Sexism is cool, even funny. If this was a black co-worker and this old dope called him "boy", in the derogatory tone that was used here, you'd all be calling for his head.

[DaddyTorgo]

In the 80s, Iowa football coach Hayden Fry was quoted in the paper, saying "You need to find a lil dumplin to do your wash then you taker her out to eat."

The lesbian-Feminist professors were all up in arms. They protested and whined and cried. The rest of the women in the state wore shirts that said "I would be proud to be Hayden Frys lil dumplin".

The woman should have said "Thank you" and went on with her life.

:banghead:

[DaddyTorgo]

This thread really shows, once again, how much further we are in this country with regards to racism and homophobia v. sexism. Sexism is cool, even funny. If this was a black co-worker and this old dope called him "boy", in the derogatory tone that was used here, you'd all be calling for his head.

This.

[Chief Rum]

I must have missed it - what did Tirico do?

Wait Tirico did something naughty?

Hmm, he seems so, what's the word, oh yeah, boring and conformist.

[Chief Rum]

So my cubicle mate at my day job had a tree blown over at his house that totaled two of his cars over the weekend. I was calling him Treebeard all day.

Can I get fired for that?

[Honolulu Blue]

I'll miss Ron Franklin, especially his signature call on breakaway runs ("Got 5, got 10... 17 yards!"). But there's no shortage of ex-jocks and others out there who ESPN thinks can call a competent game.

As for Jeannine Edwards... she's one of the few people on ESPN that I actually LIKE, rather than tolerate. Yes, she does mostly horse racing (owner/trainer interviews mainly) and I'm peeved that they've been cutting coverage for more poker reruns. She also does basketball sideline reporting. As a sideline reporter I think she's simultaneously over- and underqualified. The basic qualifications for a sideline reporter, IMO, are to be easy on the eyes, able to pronounce "meniscus" and similar words, and the ability to stick a mike in a hostile coach's face and ask silly questions. Jeannine qualifies on these grounds. She's not and doesn't pretend to be one of the guys who's super-knowledgeable about the game she's covering (except horse racing, which she does know a little).

That's my opinion, worth about what you paid for it.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Where is everyone getting he was fired?

He was pulled from a high profile but rather meaningless bowl game. Nowhere does it say he was fired.

I'm about to go on a rant of HiFi proportions about people not reading!

[Draft Dodger]

ESPN announcer dismissed over comments - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2011/SPORT/01/04/espn.comments/index.html?hpt=T2)

[bronconick]

Where is everyone getting he was fired?

He was pulled from a high profile but rather meaningless bowl game. Nowhere does it say he was fired.

I'm about to go on a rant of HiFi proportions about people not reading!

hxxp://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/ESPN-fires-announcer-Ron-Franklin-after-sexist-comments-to-female-colleague-010411/?gt1=39002

[Suburban Rhythm]

ESPN announcer dismissed over comments - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2011/SPORT/01/04/espn.comments/index.html?hpt=T2)

hxxp://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/ESPN-fires-announcer-Ron-Franklin-after-sexist-comments-to-female-colleague-010411/?gt1=39002

Oh sure....if you want to bring facts into it!!

:redface:

I had only read the original SI article I had posted. My fault.

[Ksyrup]

Don't look on ESPN.com for a story about one of its announcers being fired!

I don't know the details and apparently it's fairly old news, but Tirico - and honestly, it's hard to believe - is one of the worst offenders at the WWL. Or so they say. COmpletely inappropriate comments, come-ons, stalkerish behavior, the works. But I think most of it is from his much earlier days.

[Drake]

Wait...so sexism isn't funny?

Fuck. That's like half of my material.

[RedKingGold]

In the 80s, Iowa football coach Hayden Fry was quoted in the paper, saying "You need to find a lil dumplin to do your wash then you taker her out to eat."

The lesbian-Feminist professors were all up in arms. They protested and whined and cried. The rest of the women in the state wore shirts that said "I would be proud to be Hayden Frys lil dumplin".

The woman should have said "Thank you" and went on with her life.

Awesome post.

[lordscarlet]

And we see how well a focus on p.c. instead of quality has worked for so many American businesses lately. Oh, wait.

Seriously? I believe the thread you want is that way ------>


Why exactly is this directed at Steve and not Jon?

[Subby]

This thread really shows, once again, how much further we are in this country with regards to racism and homophobia v. sexism. Sexism is cool, even funny. If this was a black co-worker and this old dope called him "boy", in the derogatory tone that was used here, you'd all be calling for his head.
All might be stretching it.

[MikeVic]

I'll admit to not following this at all. What I know is that this dude called a female co-worker sweetcheeks or something during a meeting, and now he's dismissed from ESPN.

Is this a repeat offense? Did the female co-worker bring it p to him that she doesn't appreciate the comment? Or did it directly go to some head at ESPN and he's now dismissed?

[King of New York]

In one sense, it is too bad that there are no women participating in this thread, as surely they might have some relevant insights to share.

But in another sense, it is a really, really good thing that there are no women participating in this thread, for their sakes.

[cartman]

I'll admit to not following this at all. What I know is that this dude called a female co-worker sweetcheeks or something during a meeting, and now he's dismissed from ESPN.

Is this a repeat offense? Did the female co-worker bring it p to him that she doesn't appreciate the comment? Or did it directly go to some head at ESPN and he's now dismissed?

He called her sweet cheeks/sweet cakes, she asked him not to, he called her an asshole. She didn't report it, someone else who witnessed it reported it.

[Logan]

Anything having to do with sexism aside, I'll give him credit for one thing...you rarely hear a man call a woman an asshole. It makes it surprisingly effective if the situation dictates it. I don't think this did, but consider it a PSA from me to you.

[RedKingGold]

In one sense, it is too bad that there are no women participating in this thread, as surely they might have some relevant insights to.

Yeah, but they're too busy in the kitchen.

Baaaazzzzing!

[molson]

Wait...so sexism isn't funny?

Fuck. That's like half of my material.

Hey, I love a good racist or sexist joke as much as the next guy. But I seriously doubt that you (or 95% of posters here) have ever used a specific societal advantage (like race or gender) to demean or intimidate another specific person, face-to-face, in a serious, non-joking way. Normal people don't do that, ever.

[MikeVic]

He called her sweet cheeks/sweet cakes, she asked him not to, he called her an asshole. She didn't report it, someone else who witnessed it reported it.

Ah ok... calling her an asshole in a non-joking way would be a bit much then and you'd think someone would report that then. I still think if this is a first-time offense, you get a warning first or something. Maybe a suspension. Being fired kind of seems harsh as a first offense.

[Ksyrup]

He also had an apparent on-air incident back in 2005 with Holly Rowe, I think (?), where she was lauding a DC for not giving up by using all 3 TOs in a blowout, and he said - on air - that's not giving up, it's 49-21 sweetheart, in a derogatory manner.

But there must be some bad blood between him and Edwards or something we're missing for him to snap at her twice like that for no apparent reason. Either that, or he just despises women who think they are uppity enough to talk about sports/business.

[SteveMax58]

Either that, or he just despises women who think they are uppity enough to talk about sports/business.

I would guess that's more likely the case here.

[Glengoyne]

What the, why are you and Lathum favored bitches?

You're going to have to do the math yourself, but I think they are the best titles ever.

It is probably too big of a hint, but it has to do with the fact that one of them was unable to infer that the "Pathetic 10" was actually a reference to the "Big 10". Who wouldn't naturally follow that, after all?

[Logan]

Mike Green?

[RainMaker]

So if he called someone a ni**er would that be OK, since he is older people from his generation probably used that word casually.
Are we comparing the N-word with sweetcakes?

[RainMaker]

My dad has started calling all the women he knows/meets/works with "hon" and "sweetheart" over the last ten years or so.
We had an old lady at my last job who was the receptionist. She'd always call me "hon". Wonder how many people feel she should have been fired.

[Ksyrup]

She shouldn't, but that's only because she kept the "asshole" part under her breath.

[Crapshoot]

In the 80s, Iowa football coach Hayden Fry was quoted in the paper, saying "You need to find a lil dumplin to do your wash then you taker her out to eat."

The lesbian-Feminist professors were all up in arms. They protested and whined and cried. The rest of the women in the state wore shirts that said "I would be proud to be Hayden Frys lil dumplin".

The woman should have said "Thank you" and went on with her life.

Are you this ill-bred? Seriously?

[molson]

We had an old lady at my last job who was the receptionist. She'd always call me "hon". Wonder how many people feel she should have been fired.

Dude, it wasn't the language used that was the problem. Why don't you get that?

Call your office pals hon, sweet cakes, darlin', whatever, it won't get you in trouble in most offices. Build up a track record for speaking condensingly to women, and use those same terms to belittle or intimidate a specific co-worker, to her face, that's a different story.

[Lathum]

Are we comparing the N-word with sweetcakes?

Dude, it wasn't the language used that was the problem. Why don't you get that?

This. It is the demeaning tone that the words carried, so yes, I think they can be compared in an instance like this.

[RainMaker]

Dude, it wasn't the language used that was the problem. Why don't you get that?

Call your office pals hon, sweet cakes, darlin', whatever, it won't get you in trouble in most offices. Build up a track record for speaking condensingly to women, and use those same terms to belittle or intimidate a specific co-worker, to her face, that's a different story.
What if it was a young guy reporting and he called him "sparky" in a deragatory way? Would that be grounds for firing too?

[DaddyTorgo]

Are you this ill-bred? Seriously?

Yeah - I couldn't tell if tarcone was being sarcastic or if he's actually as much of a troglodyte as Jon.

[Lathum]

What if it was a young guy reporting and he called him "sparky" in a deragatory way? Would that be grounds for firing too?

I think everyone in this thread should just agree to disagree and be done with it.

[molson]

What if it was a young guy reporting and he called him "sparky" in a deragatory way? Would that be grounds for firing too?

It comes down to societal power. white v. black, men v. women, citizens v. immigrants is not the same as old v. young, or what state you live in, or what team you root for, or whether you live in the country v. the city. I know from your comments about the constitution, you think every type of discrimination is inherently exactly the same, but all I can tell you that is not the view of our courts, or our society, or our workplaces.

If you think using someone's race or gender to belittle someone is acceptable, (or at least as acceptable as utilizing any other characteristic) all I can say is I'm glad you're in the minority on that.

Edit: And I'd say an old guy at ESPN who couldn't respect younger workers, and was condescending towads anyone under a certain age, who probably get the boot eventually too.

[cartman]

What if it was a young guy reporting and he called him "sparky" in a deragatory way? Would that be grounds for firing too?

Only if he resembled any of the actors who played Sparky in the National Lampoon's Vacation series.

[ISiddiqui]

This thread really shows, once again, how much further we are in this country with regards to racism and homophobia v. sexism. Sexism is cool, even funny. If this was a black co-worker and this old dope called him "boy", in the derogatory tone that was used here, you'd all be calling for his head.

Times 1,000,000! I was thinking of the "boy" reference when reading the first page.

[Logan]

It comes down to societal power. white v. black, men v. women, citizens v. immigrants is not the same as old v. young, or what state you live in, or what team you root for, or whether you live in the country v. the city. I know from your comments about the constitution, you think every type of discrimination is inherently exactly the same, but all I can tell you that is not the view of our courts, or our society, or our workplaces.

If you think using someone's race or gender to belittle someone is acceptable, (or at least as acceptable as utilizing any other characteristic) all I can say is I'm glad you're in the minority on that.

And to his point..."sparky" might be okay, but if I called the guy down the hall from me who's about 10 years past retirement age "gramps" I'd probably get a talking-to.

And now that I think about it...I'm 27 and a year ago when I described my group of trainees (22-24 year olds) as being "a good group of kids" I was told to be careful with my word choice. No one thought I was being disrespectful, but that's the point...you have to be careful. Edit: Like others said, it goes to intent and tone. No one thought I was being a dick when I called them "kids"...but if one of them messed something up and I rolled my eyes saying "kids..." and then corrected them, it probably would have risen up somewhere.

[molson]

And to his point..."sparky" might be okay, but if I called the guy down the hall from me who's about 10 years past retirement age "gramps" I'd probably get a talking-to.

And now that I think about it...I'm 27 and a year ago when I described my group of trainees (22-24 year olds) as being "a good group of kids" I was told to be careful with my word choice. No one thought I was being disrespectful, but that's the point...you have to be careful. Edit: Like others said, it goes to intent and tone. No one thought I was being a dick when I called them "kids"...but if one of them messed something up and I rolled my eyes saying "kids..." and then corrected them, it probably would have risen up somewhere.

Ya, it comes down to respect for co-workers rather than any particular naughty words. If you can't respect young people, and you have to work with them, you're probably not going to last too long. The clearest evidence and expression of that disrespect is usually going to end up being some kind of verbal expression (like "kids"), but that's just evidence of the problem, not the problem itself.

[RainMaker]

I think everyone in this thread should just agree to disagree and be done with it.
I'm not even really trying to argue with that statement. I'm genuinely interested in where the line is with people.

[Lathum]

Calling a female coworker sweet cheeks









^^^^^^^ Over ^^^^^^^
The Line __________________________________________

[RainMaker]

It comes down to societal power. white v. black, men v. women, citizens v. immigrants is not the same as old v. young, or what state you live in, or what team you root for, or whether you live in the country v. the city. I know from your comments about the constitution, you think every type of discrimination is inherently exactly the same, but all I can tell you that is not the view of our courts, or our society, or our workplaces.

If you think using someone's race or gender to belittle someone is acceptable, (or at least as acceptable as utilizing any other characteristic) all I can say is I'm glad you're in the minority on that.

Edit: And I'd say an old guy at ESPN who couldn't respect younger workers, and was condescending towads anyone under a certain age, who probably get the boot eventually too.
Well older typically has societal power over younger. You walk into any office as a young guy and you are typically at the bottom of the power structure. I would consider an older guy calling me "sparky" deragatory. And you can sue for age discrimination in this country.

I guess how I look at it is whether or not the guy was insulting her for being a woman, or just insulting her for pissing him off. If his issue is with women, then yes, he should be fired. If his issue is just getting pissed off and saying something that he shouldn't have, then I think it's different.

I feel we are quick to label someone as sexist, racist, etc. over a bad choice of words. Just how I wouldn't consider someone a homophobe because they jokingly called someone gay or a fag. There is a difference in insulting someone by using a word and actively being prejudice against the person for the gender, race, sexuality.

[Lathum]

I guess how I look at it is whether or not the guy was insulting her for being a woman, or just insulting her for pissing him off. If his issue is with women, then yes, he should be fired. If his issue is just getting pissed off and saying something that he shouldn't have, then I think it's different.

.

Pretty sure if he was pissed off a Rod Gilmor he wouldn't have called him sweet cheeks.

[Abe Sargent]

Pretty sure if he was pissed off a Rod Gilmor he wouldn't have called him sweet cheeks.

sweet dick?

[lighthousekeeper]

But I seriously doubt that you (or 95% of posters here) have ever used a specific societal advantage (like race or gender) to demean or intimidate another specific person, face-to-face, in a serious, non-joking way. Normal people don't do that, ever.

You could argue that we are all constantly using societal advantage (e.g. education, etc.) to influence other people in a serious, non-joking way, and that this is an inherent part of language. And, depending on the mood of the speaker and sensitivity of the listener, the listener may at times feel demeaned or intimidated.

We have just learned to execute (most of the times) with just enough subtlety to avoid drawing out unwanted attention.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I'm not even really trying to argue with that statement. I'm genuinely interested in where the line is with people.
I can't speak for other people, sweet baby, but my opinion is that the line is drawn at common sense.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Ya, it comes down to respect for co-workers rather than any particular naughty words. ... The clearest evidence and expression of that disrespect is usually going to end up being some kind of verbal expression (like "kids"), but that's just evidence of the problem, not the problem itself.

On a broader/more philosophical note, I dispute that there's a "problem" to be evidenced at all. "Respect" is something that should be earned, infrequently have "young people" in most work environments reached that point (in the hypothetical scenario you were described).

Failing to give credit/respect when it is due because of race, age, gender, whatever ... that's a problem. My point here is that simply refusing to dole it out like the air in a potato chip bag is not & should not be considered problematic.

[Radii]

me: Hey sweet cheeks, come over here
female coworker: don't call me that
me: ok, hey asshole, come over here.

Not at all surprised if i get fired.

me: hey sweet cheeks, come over here
female coworker: don't call me that.
me: yeah, right, shouldn't have said that, I'm sorry.

nothing at all happens. Its that comeback that hammers it home for me. I wouldn't be crying foul over a suspension or whatever, but that's what takes it to the point of me not having any problem at all with the dude getting canned.

[Pumpy Tudors]

On a broader/more philosophical note, I dispute that there's a "problem" to be evidenced at all. "Respect" is something that should be earned, infrequently have "young people" in most work environments reached that point (in the hypothetical scenario you were described).

Failing to give credit/respect when it is due because of race, age, gender, whatever ... that's a problem. My point here is that simply refusing to dole it out like the air in a potato chip bag is not & should not be considered problematic.
Still speaking hypothetically here, why does this have to be one extreme or the other? This sounds to me like there are only two choices: (1) show someone the absolute greatest respect you can muster and (2) be actively disrespectful toward someone.

I guess to state it a little differently, I place the amount of respect I give people on a -10 to +10 scale. I start most strangers at 0 and the needle moves from there. I'm not sure I see what's productive about making it binary and starting people at complete disrespect until they've earned respect. I'm not trying to say that one way is necessarily better than the other. Personally, I think my life would just be more stressful if I had a much narrower scale of how much respect or civility I could offer to people.

Edit: Also, I'm sorry if it looks like I'm putting words in your mouth. Perhaps it's not a binary decision for you personally, but I'm sure it is for a lot of people, and that's what I'm trying to wrap my head around.

[TroyF]

I don't feel people have to earn my respect. I feel people lose respect.

But this is about more than respect. It's about using your brain. There isn't a single person here, including you Jon, who doesn't understand that Franklin's responses would be a firing offense.

This is like going 60 in a school zone and being shocked at the amount of the fine and points. You KNOW what you are going to get. I don't get all of the defense of this guy. He's an idiot. He should be fired for that alone.

[JonInMiddleGA]

There isn't a single person here, including you Jon, who doesn't understand that Franklin's responses would be a firing offense.

Not in an organization (or world) run by sane people. Then again ...

[JonInMiddleGA]

Still speaking hypothetically here, why does this have to be one extreme or the other? This sounds to me like there are only two choices: (1) show someone the absolute greatest respect you can muster and (2) be actively disrespectful toward someone.

I think I can clear up the disconnect here, or at least the one I think we're having.

I place the amount of respect I give people on a -10 to +10 scale. I start most strangers at 0 and the needle moves from there.

Completely rational, no problem with that afaic. I tend to start at around -2 based on the sum total of my life experience, but YMMV. Mine isn't really any different otherwise.

I think what isn't coming across here is that I'm talking more about this specific incident, where the 2nd choice made it pretty clear to me that Franklin doesn't give two shits for this particular co-worker; i.e. on the lower end of the negative scale. We don't know what the relationship there is, but it seems at least as reasonable to believe that his feelings are justified as it is to assume that they aren't.

What I'm trying to say is that just because people reach -10 (with me or him) doesn't mean that everyone starts out there.

Edit: Also, I'm sorry if it looks like I'm putting words in your mouth. Perhaps it's not a binary decision for you personally, but I'm sure it is for a lot of people, and that's what I'm trying to wrap my head around.

We're cool, I'm not generally bothered by clarification & that's all you seem to be looking for.

[Sun Tzu]

Sugar tits > Sweet cheeks

[Lathum]

I think what isn't coming across here is that I'm talking more about this specific incident, where the 2nd choice made it pretty clear to me that Franklin doesn't give two shits for this particular co-worker; i.e. on the lower end of the negative scale. We don't know what the relationship there is, but it seems at least as reasonable to believe that his feelings are justified as it is to assume that they aren't.
.

His feelings towards her are irrelevant, we are all expected to treat our coworkers with a certain level of respect. Whether or not you like or respect them makes no difference.

[sterlingice]

Are you this ill-bred? Seriously?

Hehehe - I just love the use of the term "ill-bred" :D

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

His feelings towards her are irrelevant, we are all expected to treat our coworkers with a certain level of respect. Whether or not you like or respect them makes no difference.

{shrug} I just believe that the level some organizations expect is both irrational & unreasonable. And pursuing it excessively leads to diminished quality & productivity.

[Suburban Rhythm]

So ESPN steadily putting out a shittier product over the past 20 years is because they expected the male hosts and announcers to not call the female hosts and announcers sweet cheeks?

And all this time I thought it was getting rid of Charlie Steinerm

[JonInMiddleGA]

So ESPN steadily putting out a shittier product over the past 20 years is because they expected the male hosts and announcers to not call the female hosts and announcers sweet cheeks?


No dingy (dated Alice reference there), it's because they just dropped one of the best CFB announcers they had. C'mon, try to keep up here.

[Suburban Rhythm]

No dingy (dated Alice reference there), it's because they just dropped one of the best CFB announcers they had. C'mon, try to keep up here.

Kiss my grits

[Ksyrup]

Sweet cheeks sounds better, but it was actually sweet baby.

Man, this thread derailed pretty quickly. I was looking forward to several pages of jokes, and instead it turned into...this.

[JPhillips]

When I meet new people I have a routine that lets them know where they stand.

1 Call them a worthless cunt
2 Spit on them
3 Tell them I have AIDS and now they do to

If the want anything better they have to earn it.

[Lathum]

Sweet cheeks sounds better, but it was actually sweet baby.

Sorry Honey Man

[Passacaglia]

They weren't on-air, it was before a meeting. Not necessarily relevant to human resources, just saying. And just for the record, according to Edwards (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2011/01/jeannine-edwards-ron-franklin-called-me-sweet-baby-not-sweet-cakes/1) it was "sweet baby".

Judging from the context, it seems likely that the term was indeed meant to be condescending but used as a euphemism for something much nastier (based on his choice of "asshole") that a nearly 70 year old native Southerner wasn't planning to use on a woman.

My 9-month old son has a bib that says "sweet baby" on it. I call it his Robin Colcord bib.

[SteveMax58]

Sorry Honey Man

Asshole.








;)

[bhlloy]

Jon (or any others) - serious question here. Given the inevitable lawsuit that probably would have followed if ESPN had not taken any action and this woman ends up disgruntled or being let go down the line, don't you think it's a smart (and necessary) business move to take action? Or would you not even go that far? Seems if we are getting pissed at something here it's the litigous society we live in, not a company that seems to be following procedure and covering it's ass against a lawsuit that could (and probably would) cost it millions.

Personally, if I pulled any of the above (including just calling a coworker an asshole while on the clock in hearing range of other people) I'd probably be pulling a pink slip, so I can't feel too sorry for this guy. But even if I did, I couldn't blame ESPN for any of it. Just the world we live in and they have to make decisions based on their bottom line.

[Passacaglia]

In the 80s, Iowa football coach Hayden Fry was quoted in the paper, saying "You need to find a lil dumplin to do your wash then you taker her out to eat."

The lesbian-Feminist professors were all up in arms. They protested and whined and cried. The rest of the women in the state wore shirts that said "I would be proud to be Hayden Frys lil dumplin".

The woman should have said "Thank you" and went on with her life.

I'm pretty sure you're actually thinking of an episode of Coach. Oooh, that Judy! And why the f did they kill Dauber at the end of that episode?!?!

[Mustang]

Personally, if I pulled any of the above (including just calling a coworker an asshole while on the clock in hearing range of other people) I'd probably be pulling a pink slip

Sounds like you need to be more valuable to the company then.

I say that tongue in cheek, but probably not far from the truth that the ability of a worker to get away with this is related to how valuable they are to the company.

[jeff061]

Sounds like you need to be more valuable to the company then.

I say that tongue in cheek, but probably not far from the truth that the ability of a worker to get away with this is related to how valuable they are to the company.

This is somewhat true. Until the lawyers get involved. And some jackass with a pattern of making offensive remarks to women is begging for that situation to happen.

Being valuable may help you get away with it once, not multiple times though.

[Logan]

And then the "not valuable" employee who did get fired brings up a pattern of unpunished similar behavior from the "valuable" employee...more lawyers win.

[Pumpy Tudors]

And then the "not valuable" employee who did get fired brings up a pattern of unpunished similar behavior from the "valuable" employee...more lawyers win.
And that's how you end up with favored bitches in the workplace! I love you, Logan!

[molson]

Personally, if I pulled any of the above (including just calling a coworker an asshole while on the clock in hearing range of other people) I'd probably be pulling a pink slip, so I can't feel too sorry for this guy.

I've been out of college 11 years, have worked for advertising, tech, and legal organizations, and never once have I heard someone call a co-woker an asshole to his or her face, let alone utilize someone's race or gender to belittle or intimidate someone. That would be really shocking to see. And maybe that's an anomoly. Or maybe the people who don't think this is a big deal are all longshoremen?

[Logan]

I bet somewhere an accountant referred to a certain someone as an asshole.

[RomaGoth]

I'm pretty sure you're actually thinking of an episode of Coach. Oooh, that Judy! And why the f did they kill Dauber at the end of that episode?!?!

Umm, Dauber now lives under the sea in the form of a starfish. ;)

[jeff061]

Depends on your environment. I've have said far worse things to co-workers than I've said to anyone on this board :D. But that doesn't fly everywhere, you need to know the culture and the people.

[larrymcg421]

Um, this is such a simple pattern of events.

1) Guy is condescending to female co-worker.
2) She asks him not to do that.
3) He calls her an asshole.

For some reason, people came into this thread pretending that only #1 happened so they can make their arguments about how the rivers will run red and the seas will boil because you can't be a sexist jackass anymore. If this happened at my job, the person would only be employed for the amount of time it took HR to call corporate and fill out the paperwork. This pattern of events will get you fired 99.99999999% of the time, unless you're lucky enough to be employed by some of the people in this thread.

[Drake]

I've been out of college 11 years, have worked for advertising, tech, and legal organizations, and never once have I heard someone call a co-woker an asshole to his or her face, let alone utilize someone's race or gender to belittle or intimidate someone. That would be really shocking to see. And maybe that's an anomoly. Or maybe the people who don't think this is a big deal are all longshoremen?

Okay, all kidding aside, I do have to cop to this one. Not race/gender slams, but I've both used things like "asshole" and "are you just trying to be a dick?" and "that was quite the dick move" in both internal and cross-unit meetings for years.

That said, as others have suggested in this thread, it was also meetings with my other IT peers (i.e., all at the same level in the hierarchy). With upper management, I say things like "making move x would just seem like a really, really stupid thing to do as far as I'm concerned" and let them draw their own conclusions about whether or not they were/wanted to be stupid.

[DaddyTorgo]

Um, this is such a simple pattern of events.

1) Guy is condescending to female co-worker.
2) She asks him not to do that.
3) He calls her an asshole.

For some reason, people came into this thread pretending that only #1 happened so they can make their arguments about how the rivers will run red and the seas will boil because you can't be a sexist jackass anymore. If this happened at my job, the person would only be employed for the amount of time it took HR to call corporate and fill out the paperwork. This pattern of events will get you fired 99.99999999% of the time, unless you're lucky enough to be employed by some of the people in this thread.


Your common sense and logic have no place here!! :D

[JonInMiddleGA]

Jon (or any others) - serious question here. Given the inevitable lawsuit that probably would have followed if ESPN had not taken any action and this woman ends up disgruntled or being let go down the line, don't you think it's a smart (and necessary) business move to take action? Or would you not even go that far?

No, I wouldn't, at least not based on what we know.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I've been out of college 11 years, have worked for advertising, tech, and legal organizations, and never once have I heard someone call a co-woker an asshole to his or her face, let alone utilize someone's race or gender to belittle or intimidate someone. That would be really shocking to see. And maybe that's an anomoly.

Where the fuck do you live, Narnia?

[TroyF]

I've been out of college 11 years, have worked for advertising, tech, and legal organizations, and never once have I heard someone call a co-woker an asshole to his or her face, let alone utilize someone's race or gender to belittle or intimidate someone. That would be really shocking to see. And maybe that's an anomoly. Or maybe the people who don't think this is a big deal are all longshoremen?

I've been in a professional office setting for 18 years now (damn I'm old).

I've seen some heated, heated arguments.

Never once have I been in a situation where a party called another one an asshole, a bitch or any other type of thing like it. About the most I've ever heard is something like "don't you realize how stupid this is?"

You can voice your disagreement with someone without treating them like that. It's unprofessional and would cost you your job in any place I've ever worked.

[molson]

Where the fuck do you live, Narnia?

In that time, NYC and Boston and Oregon and Idaho. Pretty good cross-section, though still a small sample size.

(And where I am now, F-bombs are dropped everywhere, all the time, but never directly at a co-worker, in anger, or disrespect. That would be shocking to me, is all I'm saying. Other office cultures could be totally different)

[jeff061]

Larger companies tend to be more sterile and professional(not always and depends on department). Going from my office to a clients, it's like an alien world in comparison. I can see where Molson comes from.

[RomaGoth]

I've been in a professional office setting for 18 years now (damn I'm old).

I've seen some heated, heated arguments.

Never once have I been in a situation where a party called another one an asshole, a bitch or any other type of thing like it. About the most I've ever heard is something like "don't you realize how stupid this is?"

You can voice your disagreement with someone without treating them like that. It's unprofessional and would cost you your job in any place I've ever worked.

This. I have to agree with larrymcg as well. Even in less politically correct times (i.e., anytime prior to 1990), one would find it very difficult to get away with outright insulting someone based upon their sex, color, religion at the workplace.

[DaddyTorgo]

Where the fuck do you live, Narnia?

Actually - it seems from all the responses here that you're the outlier.

[JonInMiddleGA]

In that time, NYC and Boston and Oregon and Idaho. Pretty good cross-section, though still a small sample size.

FTR, I'm assuming that you got that the Narnia line was intended as dismay at the vast gap in experiences rather than anything like outright disbelief or some other negativity.

In 25+ years, I've seen weapons (of convenience) used in the workplace at least twice, several fist fights, and enough language to make a sailor amputate his ears in horror. And none of that even scratches the surface of what I've seen/heard management say to employees, and I don't mean about them, I mean to them. That's across the gamut of work experience from retail to manufacturing to broadcasting to advertising with the biggest difference being that vocabulary was at least a little more creative in the higher paying sectors (both the insults & the profanity had more syllables). Not once did I see any of these incidents results in a lawsuit, much less anyone being fired. The most discipline I can recall from any of them was a 2-3 day suspension in order to give the attacking employee time to decide to quit rather than end up killing the poor dumb SOB he'd gotten fed up with.

Now I realize that I've been out of the traditional workplace for about a decade now & that it's a more litigious society these days but it's hard to believe it's changed that much across the broad spectrum of employers. The more corporate the environment,the greater the likelihood but I'll admit, but damned if we aren't talking about one hell of gap in experiences.

[JediKooter]

I blame Stuart Scotts eye for all of this.

[Suburban Rhythm]

I blame Stuart Scotts eye for all of this.

The good eye or the jacked up eye?

[JediKooter]

The good eye or the jacked up eye?

Got to be the jacked up eye. I mean look at it. You can just tell it is up to no good.

[lighthousekeeper]

In 25+ years, I've seen weapons (of convenience) used in the workplace at least twice, several fist fights, and enough language to make a sailor amputate his ears in horror.

You tend to have that effect on people.

[RomaGoth]

Got to be the jacked up eye. I mean look at it. You can just tell it is up to no good.

I lol'ed at this......:lol:

[JediKooter]

I lol'ed at this......:lol:

:D

[lordscarlet]

Now I realize that I've been out of the traditional workplace for about a decade now & that it's a more litigious society these days but it's hard to believe it's changed that much across the broad spectrum of employers. The more corporate the environment,the greater the likelihood but I'll admit, but damned if we aren't talking about one hell of gap in experiences.

Perhaps I am looking at a microcosm, but this seems to be a trend lately. I would say it is similar to the gmail vs. ISP email discussion. I think things have changed a lot in the last 10 years and either you or your profession have not caught up to the way the majority of white collar jobs these days. It's possible the rest of us are in the minority, but it would be tough for us to find out which end we're looking at. While FOFC is clearly a fairly educated group, the professions run the gamut, and I would argue that in such discussions of late you have been in the minority.

[jeff061]

Wait. People still use their ISP email? What happens if you change your ISP!!!!!

Let me know if I'm steering off topic here.

[JonInMiddleGA]

While FOFC is clearly a fairly educated group, the professions run the gamut, and I would argue that in such discussions of late you have been in the minority.

... of those who play sports-related games and post about them on the internet. You could be right, but we're still an awfully small sub-section of the population as focus groups go.

All I can say with certainty is that I'm glad I no longer deal with office environments at all & literally pray that I never have to again. I have grave doubts that it would end remotely well for anyone involved.

[RainMaker]

I haven't had many weird experiences in an office. This was a tech company I worked for (startup) that was mostly younger too. There was a couple screaming matches, mainly a crazy girl who was in accounting who was sensetive to everything.

I think the worst was a new girl who forwarded an e-mail making fun of black people at the prom. Basically was called "Prom in the Ghetto" and had all these weird outfits/hairstyles. We had black people working for the company. She got reprimanded, apologized, felt dumb, and that's it.

[Wolfpack]

... of those who play sports-related games and post about them on the internet. You could be right, but we're still an awfully small sub-section of the population as focus groups go.

All I can say with certainty is that I'm glad I no longer deal with office environments at all & literally pray that I never have to again. I have grave doubts that it would end remotely well for anyone involved.

Of course it would...you'd know where to hide the bodies, right? :D

[JonInMiddleGA]

Of course it would...you'd know where to hide the bodies, right? :D

"Hiding" is not considered nearly as efficient as "disposing of" ;)

[lungs]

"Hiding" is not considered nearly as efficient as "disposing of" ;)

You must know a hog farmer then? :)

For the record we haven't had hogs in 20 years.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I don't know the details and apparently it's fairly old news, but Tirico - and honestly, it's hard to believe - is one of the worst offenders at the WWL. Or so they say. COmpletely inappropriate comments, come-ons, stalkerish behavior, the works. But I think most of it is from his much earlier days.

Speaking of Tirico, he was just named National Sportscaster of the Year by the National Sportscasters and Sportswriters Association
Musburger, Uecker, Ryan Named To NSSA Hall of Fame - NSSA Hall of Fame News (http://www.nssafame.com/Blog/22392)

[fantom1979]

I extremely dislike Tirico, and it has nothing to do with his past. I just think he is boring. To me, he is example #1 of how ESPN has gone to crap since the days of Patrick, KO, Eisen, and Steiner.

[RainMaker]

I don't mind Tirico. He's competent, which makes him look like a God compared to what is out there. I don't like Jaws and Gruden much, so I think that takes away my enjoyment of his games.

Then again, I don't expect much from an announcer. Get the names right, know when to change your voice, and don't talk over people.

[kcchief19]

Sorry I even posted this. My intent was to get a laugh over a shitty network that most of us here find as a necessary evil.

Didn't realize that even something as innocent as some dumb fucks at ESPN could turn into a dick swinging contest. Connecting this to the crumbling US economy? Lighten the fuck up.
This hasn't gotten enough credit for being one of the greatest posts in FOFC history.

[Honolulu Blue]

Nobody cares anymore, but the inevitable follow-up has come: Former ESPN announcer sues network over firing (http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slug=capress-fbc_espn_announcer-5711384)

[jeff061]

Yeah, I don't see that going very far. Christ, a witness reported the thing.

[Lathum]

Yeah, I don't see that going very far. Christ, a witness reported the thing.

and he also apologized for it, if he thinks he was wrongfully terminated then why apologize if he did nothing wrong?

[JonInMiddleGA]

and he also apologized for it, if he thinks he was wrongfully terminated then why apologize if he did nothing wrong?

Well theoretically I can be sorry you were offended without being the least bit sorry for anything I said. Those apologies tend to fall under the "that's your problem, not mine" heading I believe, but I can still find it unfortunate that you have that problem.