Which update? DDCB or FBCB

[Glengoyne]

I'm thinking I want to give a basketball sim a shot this year, and while I played version 1 of each of these games, I really have no clue as to the improvements they've respectively made.

Anybody out there have both, and the time to draw up some bullet point differentiators?
Two areas I'm interested in are
1) recruiting. I find this a challenging part any college sim, but also haven't really been fully satisfied with any one effort.
2) Coaching games. I feel like I struggle to make a difference during a game. I'd like to be able to call a play, and actually have it executed. I'd have to go WAY back to XOR college basketball to find a game that actually accomplished this to my satisfaction. How do you in game coaches feel about these two offerings?

[Grim.Reaper]

I would also be interested in a comparison from those that have played both. But I am interested in which game performs the following better. Or do they both do a great job in these areas?

- Realistic scores/outcomes

- Realistic invites to tournaments

- Realistic coach movement (firing, hiring, retiring)

- Realistic player stats

- Realistic polls

- Which has better modeling of upsets in the season and within the tourney?

- etc.

[Groundhog]

Let me preface this with the fact that I'm a FBCB fanboy who coaches every game. Also keeping in mind that I obviously haven't played the new DDS:CB.

1) FBCB is to me a streamlined approach to recruiting that suits my style. DDS:CB fleshes this area out somewhat. In fact, like I said in the FBCB thread, I'd say that the areas that DDS:CB shines is in the off-season aspect of the game, where as FBCB is to me the more solid basketball engine.
2) FBCB you don't call plays as such, strategy is a matter of motion, pace, and style (ins/balanced/out), as well as preferred scoring options. At the surface it seems not very deep, but I feel like I can create any offensive scheme I want, from a slow Princeton style (low pace/high motion), to the dribble drive (high pace, low motion, inside pref). From memory DDS:CB has actual plays? I could be mistaken and mixing it up with Gary's pro title, which I actually prefer to the college game.

[Bisbo]

Wow, XOR - that brings back memories. What a great game, and way ahead of its time.

[Glengoyne]

Do you feel like you have more control over the game with FBCB2 as opposed to the previous version?

How about Recruiting in FBCB2...similar approach? Any improvements?

[Groundhog]

Main change in FBCB2 recruiting is that the recruit's statistics are more realistic and give a better idea of a player's skills, and the addition of the current/future ratings colour scale, which is handy.

The in-game strategy options for FBCB2 are identical to the 1st game, although there has been tweaks, the main ones being the increased fatigue rate with pace and the "steals exploit" being heavily tuned down.

[Gary Gorski]

2) FBCB you don't call plays as such, strategy is a matter of motion, pace, and style (ins/balanced/out), as well as preferred scoring options. At the surface it seems not very deep, but I feel like I can create any offensive scheme I want, from a slow Princeton style (low pace/high motion), to the dribble drive (high pace, low motion, inside pref). From memory DDS:CB has actual plays? I could be mistaken and mixing it up with Gary's pro title, which I actually prefer to the college game.

DDS:CB2 has offensive and defensive systems that your team must learn. Those systems run plays appropriate to the style it is (ie if you're running the Princeton offense you're going to get players making basket cuts and you can see this happen in the 2D display). But what I think is realistic is that you have to have a system - you can't simply run the princeton offense one week and a high post based offense the next - I mean you can try but the more familiar your players are with the offense (or defenses) the better they execute them and when a player does not know the play then the play breaks down and your team reverts to basically a transition/free form offense.

This allows you to build a system and make it realistic that you can't just bring in a freshman and expect him to play as well as a senior who has had four years to learn the offense and defense...although when you are recruiting players you can find out what offenses and defenses they already have some familiarity with so if you run the flex offense you can recruit a kid more heavily if he knows the flex offense already.

So for the in game coaching your decisions absolutely have an outcome. If you have less experienced players on the floor maybe you switch to the transition/free form offense just to let them play more within their strengths as individual players and when you have more experienced players in you settle into your team sets. I'm also looking to expand the options even more in terms of the in game coaching so suggestions certainly would be welcomed.

[Glengoyne]

DDS:CB2 has offensive and defensive systems that your team must learn....

Thanks for the input. I really liked the offensive and defensive systems in the first version. If I recall correctly, you had the option to call a play or to select a shot for a player, coming out of a timeout. I just don't think the play I called was executed, near often enough. I hope I'm not confusing that with another game. In any case, I think your game has come closest to the in game experience that I loved about XOR.

I did struggle with the recruiting side of things. Have you made many changes on that side of things? If I recall the issues I had were related to the interface, and just having too many players to evaluate with too few ways to distinguish them or identify a "good" fit for my team.

[Gary Gorski]

Thanks for the input. I really liked the offensive and defensive systems in the first version. If I recall correctly, you had the option to call a play or to select a shot for a player, coming out of a timeout. I just don't think the play I called was executed, near often enough. I hope I'm not confusing that with another game. In any case, I think your game has come closest to the in game experience that I loved about XOR.

I did struggle with the recruiting side of things. Have you made many changes on that side of things? If I recall the issues I had were related to the interface, and just having too many players to evaluate with too few ways to distinguish them or identify a "good" fit for my team.

The ability to properly execute the play out of a timeout depends on the experience and intelligence of the player as well as if the opposing team could "guess" what play you were going to run. Maybe that's an area that I need to allow for more success rate in executing the play or wider variety of plays but I don't think it should just be automatic that you get the play run because its not like that in real life - as a coach myself I know that all to well :)

Recruiting is largely the same but it doesn't mean it can't be improved. One thing people have asked for is more filters which I plan to add to narrow down their choices. Is there something you would like to see to make things a little bit more manageable?