New football game in development

[cartman]

I like the concept behind the game. Will be interesting to see how well it executes on the concept.

Football-Freaks -> Volunteers needed for new Football management game (Madden PC, Football News & Football Forums) (http://football-freaks.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=34381&st=0&#entry311669)

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

Please be the real deal.Please be the real deal.Please be the real deal.Please be the real deal.Please be the real deal.Please be the real deal.Please be the real deal.Please be the real deal.Please be the real deal.Please be the real deal.Please be the real deal.Please be the real deal.Please be the real deal.

[BillJasper]

EDIT: nevermind.

[BYU 14]

Was really hoping it would include College Football darn it, but it still looks intriguing.

Who does Pumpy have to sleep with to get us a new College Football sim?

[Tasan]

This actually looks like it might be something. Now, if it just comes somewhere close to a sim engine of FOF ability* and doesn't stink up the joint like Football Mogul, we may have something new and refreshing.

*I know you guys hammer on the FOF engine, but really, our alternatives are MADDEN!!! and Football Mogul(which I'm not sure even knows what real football is).

[Matthean]

For some reason, there has never been a really in-depth football management game

:popcorn:

[JediKooter]

Hmmm can't seem to find a FAQ to see if it will work on a Mac.

[Suicane75]

A football game without tanks, quantum leaping or on field overdoses is not a game I will buy.

[PadresFan104]

Hmmm can't seem to find a FAQ to see if it will work on a Mac.

Did you find a website? Seems like this could be the real deal....

[JediKooter]

Did you find a website? Seems like this could be the real deal....

I was finally able to get the link to load to the message board after several unsuccessful attempts. That distracted me from actually trying to find a website for the game.

Now after looking through the thread, he said he was going to get a website up in the next week (that was on the 9th of this month) and I did not see a followup post regarding the website.

[PadresFan104]

Thanks JK. I'm just hoping this isn't some elaborate setup for an April Fools joke... ;)

[JediKooter]

You're welcome. Good point. It is that time of year again.

[DanGarion]

If there ain't no beer tents, I'm not gettin' it!

[Mike Lowe]

Barrraararhrhhhhhhhhh! The Raiders would never put up 51 on San Diego! This game sucks!

JUST KIDDING...looks promising...someone had to say it though!

[sterlingice]

Maximum-Football - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum-Football)

SI

[sovereignstar v2]

As long as I can tell whether guys are right-handed or left-handed.

[Suicane75]

Quick, someone mod me Orange and Blue dots.

[SteveMax58]

Hmmm...this is really intriguing. This guy seems to be right on par with what I care to see most.

[MJ4H]

Can someone tell me about this game? I've tried all day from 2 different places to visit the website but it won't work for me. I seem to be the only one that this is happening to. Description please?

[cartman]

Here's a quick cut-n-paste:

Hi!

I've been developing a football management game for over a year now(think Worldwide Soccer Manager or Out of the Park Baseball but for football), and I'm about 1-2 months away from releasing a demo. I'd love the game to have as accurate rosters as possible, but I obviously can't know every teams third string Left Guard and his strengths/weaknessess, and that's where I need your help.

For some reason, there has never been a really in-depth football management game, so if you are a fan of games like Worldwide Soccer Manager(Football Manager), Out of the Park Baseball, Eastside Hockey Manager, then this should interest you. The game will have a similar 2D engine as Worldwide Soccer Manager(Football Manager), with REALISTIC player movement/physics + fully customizable playbooks and the ability to call plays yourself. You can play the game both as a GM and a Head Coach, making all the front office decisions(signing/drafting/trading, hiring coordinators&position coaches) as well as taking care of everything on the field(strategy, game-plans, practices, play-calling).

So, if there are people here who feel they have a pretty good grasp about a specific team/division/conference or even the whole league, send me a PM.

In addition to the rosters, I'm also looking for potential Beta-testers for the game, so if you're interested in that, send me a PM as well. The Beta should be ready in about a month or so, so there is no rush. Without making any specific promises, you will get the game for free if you can signifigantly help me out with rosters/beta testing. I'll have a website/forums up in a few weeks with more info.....


For those intersted, here are a few screenshots of the game so far:

Screenshot 1
Screenshot 2
Screenshot 3
Screenshot 4
Screenshot 5



NOTE! Final release will not include these licenced NFL team names/logos, but logos like in the screenshot & team names will be fully customizable, and easily added to the game) Also note that the visual appearance of the game may change for the final version, and that the screenshots are just a "work in progress".

NOTE2! The rosters I have in the game right now are ones I made last summer and are highly inaccurate "ratings-wise", if you're wondering what certain players are still doing on certain teams

[kcchief19]

:popcorn:
That line alone along with the fact there are no screenshots yet of the supposed 2D graphics makes me think that if this ever sees the light of day, it will fall well short of expectations. If he doesn't think there has been an in-depth football management game, he obviously hasn't done any homework.

[Pyser]

he has screenshots up of his 2d stuff

[PadresFan104]

he has screenshots up of his 2d stuff

Yeah, and if the 2D icons move like the old XOR game, consider me interested...

[EagleFan]

Where's the lockout feature? :)

[Pumpy Tudors]

Who does Pumpy have to sleep with to get us a new College Football sim?
Please be Gus Johnson.Please be Gus Johnson.Please be Gus Johnson.Please be Gus Johnson.Please be Gus Johnson.Please be Gus Johnson.Please be Gus Johnson.Please be Gus Johnson.Please be Gus Johnson.Please be Gus Johnson.Please be Gus Johnson.Please be Gus Johnson.

[fantom1979]

Someone remember to bump this thread next year.

[bryce]

What strikes me the most is that this is such an ambitious project, but I perceive the tone in his announcement to be a bit lackadaisical, like this is no big deal. Maybe I'm just too skeptical, though...

[MJ4H]

Here's a quick cut-n-paste:

Thanks. Wow, this sounds pretty close to what I've been dreaming of. Putting college in would be amazing, of course, but this sounds like the closest I'll likely ever get.

[Tim Tellean]

I wonder who this is?

Maybe David Winters :)

Ya I went there.

[SteveMax58]

What strikes me the most is that this is such an ambitious project, but I perceive the tone in his announcement to be a bit lackadaisical, like this is no big deal. Maybe I'm just too skeptical, though...

I got that conflicting sense as well. The screenshots seem to indicate something his tone does not.

Of course...the dude could be really, really good & just not be aware of it. At least that's what I'm hoping anyway...

[ShaneTheMaster]

I'm skeptical, being that we never got a football game like that since... EVER.

[JediKooter]

Anyone a member of that board? If so, post a message in that thread asking if he got that website put up yet. Maybe that will give us indication on if this is a serious attempt or not?

[mckerney]

I think I'd rather this project be a complete failure and the developer be crazy than it be a legit game just so we can have another Maximum Football like thread.

[dolfin]

I tried to register for that board to ask questions, but never received any registration confirmation or anything.

[Antmeister]

Has anyone played Professional Football Simulator (PFS). I recall someone mentioned this a while back and the guy still seems to be plugging away at this game:
http://www.barcodegames.com/
http://www.facebook.com/ProFootballSimulator

[kcchief19]

I'm even more underwhelmed now that I've seen the 2D screenshots.

Somebody will have to explain the fascination among some in the sim community with 2D graphics. It's of mild interest in basketball and soccer, although honestly in my experience I'm bored with it within minutes and I'm fine with no 2D sim.

For a football game, it seems utterly useless to me -- it's just 22 dots on a screen on top of each other. Oh well. YMMV.

[JediKooter]

Imagine one of those 22 dots being Megan Fox on top of you.

[Antmeister]

...Somebody will have to explain the fascination among some in the sim community with 2D graphics...

Seriously, you don't any benefit from any graphics? I see a huge benefit (well if it is done correctly).

Right now, in FOF, we currently gauge how a cornerback is doing by tackles, pass defended and interceptions. However we don't know if a majority of those tackles were consistently stopping a receiver on 3rd down because he gave them a cushion. Or if the cornerback was credited for a tackle because someone else had blown their coverage.

And think about the O-Line. While FOF reflects sacks allowed, I have no idea if it was because the D-Line stacked that side of the field, if he helping to double team another defender or he is just overmatched.

[MJ4H]

Not only that, but the excitement of watching a play develop and the running back breaking into the secondary and trying to get free of the second layer of defenders and then streak down the sideline is a lot higher than the excitement of "the play was good for 27 yards and a first down!!!!!!!!" no matter how many !s they put.

[cartman]

Not only that, but the excitement of watching a play develop and the running back breaking into the secondary and trying to get free of the second layer of defenders and then streak down the sideline is a lot higher than the excitement of "the play was good for 27 yards and a first down!!!!!!!!" no matter how many !s they put.

+1

That is one of the things that made XOR Football so awesome, when you could watch a play develop.

[cartman]

Don't misread my initial post. I'm in no way stating that this is a sure thing. All I am saying is that I am definitely intrigued by the concept. The realization of this concept is the elephant in the room. Leave it to Bubba Wheels to declare something the next big thing.

[Senator]

+1

That is one of the things that made XOR Football so awesome, when you could watch a play develop.

I had this later in my development, but Computer Quarterback for my Atari 800xl had 2d and I am telling you; it made a huge impact on the love of the game.

[Dutch]

Seriously, you don't any benefit from any graphics? I see a huge benefit (well if it is done correctly).

Right now, in FOF, we currently gauge how a cornerback is doing by tackles, pass defended and interceptions. However we don't know if a majority of those tackles were consistently stopping a receiver on 3rd down because he gave them a cushion. Or if the cornerback was credited for a tackle because someone else had blown their coverage.

And think about the O-Line. While FOF reflects sacks allowed, I have no idea if it was because the D-Line stacked that side of the field, if he helping to double team another defender or he is just overmatched.

Absolutely agreed. Of course, the 2D graphics would have to actually mean something and that is really going to be the real trick there. It can't be "just a bunch of X's and O's flying around the screen".

There will be two things that absolutely need to be included in the 2D game engine (or hell...even in a text-sim, Jim!).

1.) We need to easily identify when individual players are playing above, at, or below expectation.

2.) We need to easily identify when our team strategy is exploiting, being exploited, or is equalized by our opponents.

I could care less about the level of complexity in reaching those two goals. Whether it be simple or complex, just make sure it makes sense to the gameplayer.

[Ben E Lou]

Solevision at "Faster" speed is already too slow for my tastes, and "Fastest" moves too quickly to be readable. If it weren't for the fact that valuable information can be gleaned from it, I'd never watch it. 2-D sounds like a nightmare in terms of the sheer time it would take. If watching 2D were crucial to knowing how your players are performing, multiplayer would very quickly devolve far worse than FOF into haves and have-nots--the "haves" being the people with the patience to watch 150+ plays per game (at *least* 10 minutes, probably more like 20-30 minutes) watching a 2D presentation.

2D is fine for a single-season, single-player football sim. Be careful what you wish for, though, when it comes to a multi-season and/or multi-player sim. It'd go down one of two ways...

1. Developer doesn't present valuable stats, forcing people to figure out how their guys are doing from watching every freaking game. People with buttloads of time/patience to watch dozens of 2-D games pwn everyone else.

2. Developer *does* present valuable stats. People smart enough to ignore the 2-D and spend their time analyzing the stats pwn the people spending their time oohing and ahhing over the little Xs and Os.

And again, I'm talking about a *much* worse divide developing than we currently have in FOF MP leagues. And that's not to mention the difficulty of making the stats come out resembling pro football if the actual play resolution engine is on a grid.

[Ben E Lou]

And by the way, is this offering even MP? I didn't bother to read it carefully, but I didn't notice anything about it...

[gstelmack]

FWIW, I'm less concerned about a 2D PRESENTATION than about the equivalent of a 2D ENGINE under the covers that is actually figuring out what's really happening, and then providing valuable insight into player performance. I think BBCF took a step in this direction with its post-game reports, but what I want after each game is info on how my players did. How often did my CB let his man get open, and how often did he have him blanketed? What percentage of blocking assignments did my O-Linemen meet? Not just sacks allowed and key run block bits, but EVERY assignment they had. How often was my QB throwing to open receivers, how often was he not even noticing open receivers, was he forced to throw the ball into coverage a lot because none of his receivers could get open? How often do my receivers get open, how often do they "adjust to ball" and catch a bad throw, etc? Without all of that we keep guessing at how everyone is doing. TELL ME how they are all doing on the field so I don't have to watch the game to see.

A 2D presentation is all about immersion, but I really want a much more detailed report on how my players are actually playing on the field.

[Ben E Lou]

TELL ME how they are all doing on the field so I don't have to watch the game to see.That's exactly what I'm saying above, Greg. If enough stats are given, I strongly suspect that the guys who pay attention to the stats and don't spend hours and hours watching 2D presentations will very quickly rise to the top.

[MizzouRah]

That was the biggest reason I loved FPS Football so much, I could tell so much about my team/players just by watching the games.

[Blade6119]

I think I can understand what Ben is trying to say from solely a MP perspective, but his opinion is largely missing the key point. For a text sim game to be successful, it has to have strong single-player and great immersion. Football Manager takes much much longer to play then FOF, but just about everyone would agree it is not only a vastly more successful game, but also has a much stronger single player experience. How many FM players go through every game and break down their team's stats? They are there, but most I know use on-field judgements to make calls. It doesnt necessarily mean one is right and the other is wrong, im just pointing out this particular game seems to be(by his own admission) looking to emulate FM, and I think the vast majority of people who have played both would say thats a great decision. Maybe I am wrong, and most consumers would much rather read over a box score of 1,000 numbers, but I think most buyers would much rather have the 2d, and therefore it is a good business decision. Just my 2 cents.

[Blade6119]

dola, I do appreciate the stat-heads out there, but I think their buying power is likely in the minority when you break it down. Although that is assuming general market penetration, which this game might not find. Therefore the stat-heads may be the core audience. Its an interesting case study to follow

[fantom1979]

I personally think that a basic 2D presentation is very important to a text sim football game. Figuring out how good a CB is by his stats is comparable to figuring out how good Jeter is as a shortstop by looking at his errors.

[molson]

I personally think that a basic 2D presentation is very important to a text sim football game. Figuring out how good a CB is by his stats is comparable to figuring out how good Jeter is as a shortstop by looking at his errors.

But can a CB (or a SS) really be evaluated by a 2D representation of an X? In real life, those positions are evaluated so much more subtly - things like reaction time, form - things way beyond the scope of a basic 2D representation. Just seeing an X covering an O isn't going to give you some new insight on how good a player is.

I personally would find 2D graphics pretty useless in a football sim (though not in a soccer sim), but I guess there would be some basic added entertainment value - seeing your team actually play on the field.

[fantom1979]

If I see that the opposing QB never throws at my corner back and that is why my corner back has very few picks, then yes, I think a 2D representation would work well.

If I see that my corner back is constantly getting burned and that is why he has a million tackles, and I can now see that he isn't getting those tackles in run defense, then that could also be useful.

[Ben E Lou]

I think I can understand what Ben is trying to say from solely a MP perspective, but his opinion is largely missing the key point. For a text sim game to be successful, it has to have strong single-player and great immersion. Football Manager takes much much longer to play then FOF, but just about everyone would agree it is not only a vastly more successful game, but also has a much stronger single player experience. How many FM players go through every game and break down their team's stats? They are there, but most I know use on-field judgements to make calls. It doesnt necessarily mean one is right and the other is wrong, im just pointing out this particular game seems to be(by his own admission) looking to emulate FM, and I think the vast majority of people who have played both would say thats a great decision. Maybe I am wrong, and most consumers would much rather read over a box score of 1,000 numbers, but I think most buyers would much rather have the 2d, and therefore it is a good business decision. Just my 2 cents.I'm also not interested in 2D in SP. SP needs to move *faster* than MP to get me interested. Because of the slow pace, MP is the only time I'd even consider looking at a game log or Solevision or 2D presentation. In SP, I'm simming. Period. I'm looking to have an interesting career in SP, spanning at least two or three QBs' times at the helm, so a 2D presentation would sit completely unused in that environment, and it would also slow down sim speeds. And again, my concern would be that to do well at the game you'd be forced to play it game-by-game.

As far as the MP perspective, many of the people commenting in this thread are confessed MP-only types, so that was meant to say "do you really think you'd spend that much time 3-6 days a week watching 2D?"

As far as poring over stats, if presented well enough, there's no need to spend much time on them at all if you have any sort of basic grasp of numbers. Once I got the numbers needed from 6.3, or from primelord's 6.1-ish data mining, it was a matter of seconds to determine how those numbers should be applied to how strategy should be tweaked.

[Young Drachma]

FM is a bad comparison to an gridiron football game anyway. It caters to an audience who play the thing like it's their text geek version of Madden. They care about accuracy of players and real life players is what matters to them foremost.

I think 2D is probably sexy from the "woo non-text simmers" perspective, but...whether you can woo enough of them to make it worth the while remains to be seen. I tend to think they're an acquired taste and if you can't sell the core market of people who are actually spending money on these games already.

Plus, SI has a lot more developers and years of practice. I don't understand how some one-man team thinks they're going to develop something interesting enough to hold people's attention while also making sure the other facets of the game are sound.

[MizzouRah]

If I see that the opposing QB never throws at my corner back and that is why my corner back has very few picks, then yes, I think a 2D representation would work well.

If I see that my corner back is constantly getting burned and that is why he has a million tackles, and I can now see that he isn't getting those tackles in run defense, then that could also be useful.

Exactly.. when I had Deion Sanders in FPS Football, sure I knew he was good with is 99 ratings.. but just watching him cover that #1 WR and shutting him down was a thing of beauty. Also, watching Barry Sanders make about 5 tacklers miss then going down the sideline for 6 was thrilling to say the least.

Having that low rated DE with speed that would lead the team in sacks, just watching him would tell you what ratings were important.

Also, seeing that QB you just drafted at #1 play in his first game is just more immersive for me than reading text.

It would have to be done right though.. as much as I love the idea of Gary's 2D in his basketball games, I would like it 90% more if it flowed like FM did.

[Sgran]

Is the crashing that haunts Football Manager related to the 2D engine? That game would have me as a lifelong customer if it weren't for the crash dumps. (yes, i've tried everything to fix it)

[Young Drachma]

Is the crashing that haunts Football Manager related to the 2D engine? That game would have me as a lifelong customer if it weren't for the crash dumps. (yes, i've tried everything to fix it)

I've logged probably 1,000 hours in FM10 (I didn't move to FM11) and I've only seen crashes when my custom databases had problems. YMMV, but I haven't noticed any instability.

[sovereignstar v2]

Is the crashing that haunts Football Manager related to the 2D engine? That game would have me as a lifelong customer if it weren't for the crash dumps. (yes, i've tried everything to fix it)

What version did you have problems with and what kind of specs does your PC have?