Combating the Short Pass

[cuervo72]

Seriously...how? In both FOFL and IHOF I face a divisional foe that skews HEAVILY to the short pass. It seems that whatever I do, I can not stop these teams. I'm about out of ideas.

I try to:
Avoid (or totally eliminate) 1-deep
Avoid (or totally eliminate) 4-deep
Limit 3-deep
Skew to pass/ag-pass
Play plenty of nickel/dime
Even when I "succeed", I don't succeed:

<table valign="TOP" border="0" cellspacing="2" width="96%"><tbody><tr><th align="LEFT">New Jersey</th><th align="CENTER">Att</th><th align="CENTER">Comp</th><th align="CENTER">Yards</th><th align="CENTER">Sk/Yd</th><th align="CENTER">TD</th><th align="CENTER">LG</th><th align="CENTER">Int</th><th align="CENTER">Rate</th></tr><tr><td align="LEFT" bgcolor="#ffffff">Leslie Wheeler</td><td align="CENTER" bgcolor="#ffffff">35</td><td align="CENTER" bgcolor="#ffffff">23</td><td align="CENTER" bgcolor="#ffffff">214</td><td align="CENTER" bgcolor="#ffffff">4/21</td><td align="CENTER" bgcolor="#ffffff">1</td><td align="CENTER" bgcolor="#ffffff">27</td><td align="CENTER" bgcolor="#ffffff">0</td><td align="CENTER" bgcolor="#ffffff">91.8</td></tr></tbody></table>

<table valign="TOP" border="0" cellspacing="2" width="96%"><tbody><tr><th align="LEFT"><table valign="TOP" border="0" cellspacing="2" width="96%"><tbody><tr><th align="LEFT">New Jersey</th><th align="CENTER">Att</th><th align="CENTER">Comp</th><th align="CENTER">Yards</th><th align="CENTER">Sk/Yd</th><th align="CENTER">TD</th><th align="CENTER">LG</th><th align="CENTER">Int</th><th align="CENTER">Rate</th></tr><tr><td align="LEFT" bgcolor="#ffffff">Leslie Wheeler</td><td align="CENTER" bgcolor="#ffffff">24</td><td align="CENTER" bgcolor="#ffffff">21</td><td align="CENTER" bgcolor="#ffffff">195</td><td align="CENTER" bgcolor="#ffffff">1/7</td><td align="CENTER" bgcolor="#ffffff">1</td><td align="CENTER" bgcolor="#ffffff">26</td><td align="CENTER" bgcolor="#ffffff">0</td><td align="CENTER" bgcolor="#ffffff">114.4</td></tr></tbody></table></th></tr></tbody></table>
<table valign="TOP" border="0" cellspacing="2" width="96%"><tbody><tr><th align="LEFT">Chesapeake</th><th align="CENTER">Att</th><th align="CENTER">Comp</th><th align="CENTER">Yards</th><th align="CENTER">Sk/Yd</th><th align="CENTER">TD</th><th align="CENTER">LG</th><th align="CENTER">Int</th><th align="CENTER">Rate</th></tr><tr><td align="LEFT" bgcolor="#ffffff">Glenn Coleman</td><td align="CENTER" bgcolor="#ffffff">37</td><td align="CENTER" bgcolor="#ffffff">30</td><td align="CENTER" bgcolor="#ffffff">309</td><td align="CENTER" bgcolor="#ffffff">1/8</td><td align="CENTER" bgcolor="#ffffff">4</td><td align="CENTER" bgcolor="#ffffff">39</td><td align="CENTER" bgcolor="#ffffff">2</td><td align="CENTER" bgcolor="#ffffff">115.0</td></tr></tbody></table>
<table valign="TOP" border="0" cellspacing="2" width="96%"><tbody><tr><th align="LEFT">Chesapeake</th><th align="CENTER">Att</th><th align="CENTER">Comp</th><th align="CENTER">Yards</th><th align="CENTER">Sk/Yd</th><th align="CENTER">TD</th><th align="CENTER">LG</th><th align="CENTER">Int</th><th align="CENTER">Rate</th></tr><tr><td align="LEFT" bgcolor="#ffffff">Glenn Coleman</td><td align="CENTER" bgcolor="#ffffff">33</td><td align="CENTER" bgcolor="#ffffff">24</td><td align="CENTER" bgcolor="#ffffff">242</td><td align="CENTER" bgcolor="#ffffff">3/18</td><td align="CENTER" bgcolor="#ffffff">3</td><td align="CENTER" bgcolor="#ffffff">31</td><td align="CENTER" bgcolor="#ffffff">2</td><td align="CENTER" bgcolor="#ffffff">98.3</td></tr></tbody></table>
Wheeler I was able to limit on yards, but he still put up % of 65.7 and 87.5. Coleman I was able to pick, but he still had yards and put up % of 81.1 and 72.7. Not anywhere near to stopping these guys.

My defense vs Wheeler has three good CB (71, 61, 59). Decent LB, ok DL. 4th in YPG against (321.9).

My defense vs Coleman has two very good S (68, 74), one good CB (58), a stud DE (85), stud LB, solid supporting LB and DL. 1st in total defense (275.3) by a good 24 yards. QBR against on the season: 67.5. A really solid defense. Doesn't matter. Can't stop Coleman, even as he and his WR age.

So...what's the plan here? Do I need to play *more* 3-deep, even if they aren't throwing past 8 yards? Do I try to apply more pressure via the blitz (I only blitz about 20%)? Do I just give the hell up and figure they get their 80% no matter what I do or who I put out there?

[Hammer]

I would play more 1 deep. Not saying it is better than 2 deep, but its similar. Bonus being its great versus the run. Load up more on BnR, and dont blitz.

[cuervo72]

Well, until recently (just the last game against each) I had been playing some 1-deep. I figured not doing so might help.

Help for 1-deep, Loose man:
This is generally called when a run is expected, as it is very vulnerable to any kind of passing attack, particularly to short passes.

That seems right-out.

1-deep, BnR:
This is also vulnerable to a passing attack, particularly to deep passes.

A little better, but not much. CHE in particular though has rushed only 327 times vs 523 passes (nevermind sacks). YPC is only 3.48. So I will gladly let them run. JER runs, but sneakily (see Ben's thread on running in non-running situations). Generally willing to concede some vs the run against them, too.

[Hammer]

When that huge database of plays was available I recall that regardless of how many guys were deep they all had very similar YPA versus the short pass. Therefore if a guy doesn't go deep, to me it makes sense to stack up to the line.

Maybe Jim has re-worked things. I don't have any confidence in the help file myself. I guess we have to leave it as a somewhat cloudy issue. From experience though, on face value, 1 deep does a pretty solid job against the short pass.

I can't think of any measures that will make a real difference, that I haven't stated. I would just take the run game away myself as I think 1 deep will hold up as well as any other coverage. Obviously have to be careful not to match it against the deep ball much, situational gameplanning required.

[Firefly]

I'd be curious to know what defense you play, 3-4 or 4-3. It would seem that the 3-4 is more vulnerable to that kind of GP than the 4-3.

[cuervo72]

4-3 in one league, 3-4 in the other.

[strickzilla]

ill bump this but saying what not to do i guess. i use a lot of the strong man weak zone and my SLB is quite busy in coverage but i get the same thing lots of short passes completed i rarely blitz and when i do its only 1st and 2nd down.

[Johninja]

I don't think the nickle and dime are realy necessary in the 3-4 except in extreme situations. I got rid of them and my short pass defence picked up a lot. Hard to beat bump and run, never had much luck with loose man. the 4-3 is a bit trickier.

[Kozure]

try relying on players with longer tenures on ur team rather than rating, unless rating is a huge increase (20+). Overall cohesion of whatever unit or formation u have on the field is more of a factor in the result of a play than a few rating points.

[Kozure]

ill add, i see little decrease or increase in short pass (or any pass length) with blitzing. the coverages impact the results some, but overuse of any one coverage can negate its affect.

if u have a good secondary but pass play results arent favorable for your defense, cohesion is a good place to look. look at nickle and dime formations too.

[Johninja]

It is probably obvious but going to the agg. pass defence won't help against the short pass either.


An "aggressive" expectation means that your linebackers and safeties are either moving forward to stop the run or moving into pass coverage as the ball is being snapped. from fof manual

[strickzilla]

It is probably obvious but going to the agg. pass defence won't help against the short pass either.



agreed i dont go aggressive pass until its 8 or more yards to go

[cuervo72]

And playoffs. Huzzah.

<table bgcolor="#ffffff" border="2" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="1" width="100%"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#fdcd00"><th><center>Chesapeake</center></th><th><center>CMP</center></th><th><center>ATT</center></th><th><center>YD</center></th><th><center>LONG</center></th><th><center>TD</center></th><th><center>INT</center></th><th><center>SK/YD</center></th><th><center>RTG</center></th></tr><tr><th><center>Glenn Coleman (http://www.younglifenorthdekalb.com/ihof/ben/playercard.php?playerid=12316)</center></th><td><center>27</center></td><td><center>40</center></td><td><center>341</center></td><td><center>44</center></td><td><center>4</center></td><td><center>3</center></td><td><center>2/15</center></td><td><center>95.9</center></td></tr></tbody></table>

[QuikSand]

http://noise-archmedia.net/img/smiling_pig.jpg

[Ben E Lou]

http://noise-archmedia.net/img/smiling_pig.jpgPretty much sums it up.

[strickzilla]

one other thing ill put in i was top 10 against the run and i seem to defend the screens well even having hurries on screen passes. trying to keep this alive so maybe one of the FOF Gods will reply

[strickzilla]

Pretty much sums it up.

ok i guess im a noob cause i miss the joke?

[wade moore]

ok i guess im a noob cause i miss the joke?
Quiksand's team that beat cuervo's team in the playoffs today is the "Chesapeake Chittlin's" and we lovingly call them the "piggies".

[strickzilla]

ahh thanks wade.


still tho doesnt really help the thread along tho im still myself looking for ways to address this issue next game i have is against a pass heavy team so ill try Hammers suggestion of the 46 defense (1 deep) atho perhaps a goaline 3 deep might achieve the same effect i wonder

[RedKingGold]

In all fairness, you're not really helpng the thread either.

[Ben E Lou]

Against the masses, the answer is nothing particularly special here: vary coverages, plenty of nickel/dime, pass and pass aggressive defense.

But this thread isn't about the short pass so much as it's about trying to slow down Fonzie and QuikSand. You don't just stop those guys. Best defense when playing against top-tier FOFers is to score 35ppg. Otherwise, you're not going to have a ton of success. *shurg*

[strickzilla]

In all fairness, you're not really helpng the thread either.


oh no doubt i mean i know im nowhere near experienced enough to contribute, im just trying to keep the thread bumped so maybe somone much wiser than me will chime in.

and Ben did thank you sir