NFL Draft Thread 2011 [Archive] - Front Office Football Central

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jbergey22

04-25-2011, 12:41 PM

I wanted create something different from the negative NFL offseason thread.

Which teams will be taking QBs in round 1?
Where with Mallet/Locker go?
How the hell can Cam Newton be considered the #1 prospect in this years draft?
Why did they have to mess with something that was great the way it was IMO? First 3 rounds on Saturday, Final 4 rounds on Sunday.

I had a friend that always would throw a party on draft Saturday since it was changed its just not the same. Its really not that exciting going to a party for the 4th-7th rounds while sitting around watching 3-4 hours of draft coverage on Thursday without beverages flowing and some talk of football with your friends isnt nearly as exciting.

M GO BLUE!!!

04-25-2011, 01:28 PM

I was burned out after I saw the 3,742nd mock draft.

stevew

04-25-2011, 01:35 PM

I hate the Thursday night draft, and would personally like to tell Roger Goddell/whomever thought of the idea to get fucked.

Honolulu_Blue

04-25-2011, 01:51 PM

While I enjoyed the old Saturday and Sunday format, I am ok with this new one. If anything, it frees up my weekend a bit more, since I watch Round 1 on Thursday, Rounds 2-3 on Friday and then can kind of keep tabs on Rounds 4-7 on Saturday and still do stuff if need be and have Sunday free.

Honolulu_Blue

04-25-2011, 01:52 PM

After Saturday, however, I am pretty much done with the NFL until they sign a new CBA. I have no interest in any updates about negotiations or the court cases or who "wins" or "loses" or any of that. I don't give a shit.

Just figure it out, let me know what the new rules are regarding free agency, draft, etc, and move on.

fantom1979

04-25-2011, 01:53 PM

I hate the Thursday night draft, and would personally like to tell Roger Goddell/whomever thought of the idea to get fucked.

This.

I will for the 2nd straight year not watch the NFL draft (after about 20 straight years of not missing it). They took something that was special on Saturday with friends and completely screwed it.

albionmoonlight

04-25-2011, 02:08 PM

The Saints need front seven help. The draft is deep with front seven players this year, some of whom will be available when the team picks in the mid-20s. I think that it will be a pretty ho-hum draft for the Saints.

jbergey22

04-25-2011, 04:23 PM

Matthean

04-25-2011, 04:34 PM

I know he has talent but has anyone else seen what is making Cam Newton the probable #1 pick?

From the limited sample size I seen he was very inaccurate, would force the ball into coverage, and had a release that was very slow.

I was much more impressed with Mallet as a passer. He wasnt accurate at times but his arm is a cannon and I would assume the accuracy will get better as he makes any throw look easy.

Zero clue on Cam. He has done nothing from the clips I have seen to raise his stock and yet there he is. He looks like a bust from what I have seen.

Big armed, but not as accurate as need be QBs are the ones that go high, but don't pan out versus the weaker armed QBs, who are accurate. As long as the QB has enough strength then they are fine.

stevew

04-25-2011, 04:37 PM

I agree that he has more than enough red flags and absolutely should not go #1 overall. There's no way to predict the way that he will act once he gets a shit ton of money. As of July last year, he would have been a virtual unkown. He's only thrown 292 passes in Division 1 football. His brother is an NFL offensive linemen---absolutely reasonable to question his genetic makeup if he decides to lounge too much. What does that mean exactly? Who knows. He's a very good runner in game, but his 40 time isn't that impressive.

If he was a TE in this draft, he'd probably be drafted in the top 10. As a QB I dunno.

Hell, it probably pays for people to hype him up in the draft, so that some other team in front of you will waste a pick on him.

CU Tiger

04-25-2011, 04:42 PM

Cam Newton will is more Jeff George than JeMarcus Russell but neither is a good person to be compared to.

As arrogant as he may be Bill Parcells has forgot more about personnel than anyone in the league today not named Billechik or Polian. His famous 4 rules
for drafting a QB
1)He must be a senior, because you need time and maturity to develop into a good professional quarterback.
NEGATIVE

2)He must be a graduate, because you want someone who takes his responsibilities seriously.
NOPE

3) He must be a three-year starter, because you need to make sure his success wasn’t ephemeral and that he has lived as “the guy” for some period of time.
Afraid Not

4) He must have at least 23 wins, because the big passing numbers must come in the context of winning games.
0 for 4 equals BUST...

Mike Lowe

04-25-2011, 05:10 PM

How many successful NFL starting QB's fit that mold right now? I ask a bit skeptically, but honestly do not know.

jbergey22

04-25-2011, 05:38 PM

How many successful NFL starting QB's fit that mold right now? I ask a bit skeptically, but honestly do not know.

Well I know Peyton Manning does. Drew Brees I believe stayed 4 years. Tom Brady was an off and on starter but stayed all 4 years I believe as well.

Probably the 3 best to be compared with right there.

Lathum

04-25-2011, 05:55 PM

How many successful NFL starting QB's fit that mold right now? I ask a bit skeptically, but honestly do not know.

Garrard?

Mike Lowe

04-25-2011, 05:58 PM

From Wikipedia...Not the best source I know, but here is Brady's info for Michigan:

Brady played college football for, and graduated from, the University of Michigan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Wolverines_football).<sup id="cite_ref-13" class="reference">[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady#cite_note-13)</sup> He was a backup his first two years, while teammate and future NFL quarterback Brian Griese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Griese) led the Wolverines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Michigan_Wolverines_football_team) to a share of the national championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_I-A_national_football_championship) in 1997 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_NCAA_Division_I-A_football_season) in the Rose Bowl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Rose_Bowl). When he enrolled at Michigan, Brady was seventh on the depth chart and had an intense struggle to get some playing time. At one point, Brady hired a sports psychologist to help him cope with frustration and anxiety and even considered transferring to Cal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Golden_Bears_Football).<sup id="cite_ref-14" class="reference">[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady#cite_note-14)</sup><sup id="cite_ref-15" class="reference">[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady#cite_note-15)</sup> Brady battled for the starting job with Drew Henson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drew_Henson), ultimately starting every game in the 1998 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_NCAA_Division_I-A_football_season) and 1999 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_NCAA_Division_I-A_football_season) seasons under Michigan head coach Lloyd Carr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd_Carr). During his first full year as starter, he set Michigan records for most pass attempts and completions in a season (214).<sup id="cite_ref-16" class="reference">[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady#cite_note-16)</sup>

stevew

04-25-2011, 06:39 PM

Newton's contract is gonna pay him in excess of 14 million a season which will place him near the top 10 paid players in the league. Maybe Richardson knows that he is getting a rookie cap?

JPhillips

04-25-2011, 06:55 PM

Instead of being excited by whomever the Bengals will get at #4, I'm worried about how they'll fuck it up.

I hate being a Bengals fan.

miked

04-25-2011, 07:09 PM

How many successful NFL starting QB's fit that mold right now? I ask a bit skeptically, but honestly do not know.

Matt Ryan. Carson Palmer?

Thomkal

04-25-2011, 07:21 PM

I think it would be a huge mistake for Carolina to take Newton #1 after taking Clausen with their first overall pick in the last draft. Clausen needed to sit a year and learn how to play in the NFL, and you saw the result when he wasn't given that time. Newton needs that time even more given his less experience overall and especially no experiene in a pro offense. His character issues also make him too risky for a #1 pick. I really don't want to sit through another season of Panthers games on TV watching that potential disaster happen in front of me. They should pick WR A.J. Green so that Claussen actually has a WR besides rapidly aging Steve Smith to throw to, because there's nobody else there good enough to start opposite him right now.

But of course, I hope Carolina or one of the teams above Arizona take him because I worry that my beloved Cards will take him if he's available. I don't really think they will because Whisenhunt doesn't like character issues with his QB's-see Matt Leinert. I suspect they will take Gabbert if Newton is gone, which I'm okay with I guess but I'm not sure he's the franchise QB they really need. But god can he be any worse than the guys they had at that position last season? I'm pissed at the union and NFL for not getting an agreement before the draft because I think they would have traded for Kolb or McNabb and spent the pick on defense where they desperately need help.

If they don't go QB (or both Newton and Gabbert are gone before their pick), they might try to trade back into the first round or just hope Jake Locker drops to them in the second round.

TroyF

04-25-2011, 07:40 PM

Newton's contract is gonna pay him in excess of 14 million a season which will place him near the top 10 paid players in the league. Maybe Richardson knows that he is getting a rookie cap?

I don't know labor laws at all, but as the NFL players have no more union and the NFL was ordered to unlock the doors. . . do they have to pay the rookies what they used to pay them? Couldn't they just dictate the salaries (or if they were required to pay the same in the rookie pool as last year split it out more evenly) which would essentially force the rookies to either take the salaries or sit out the year and try it again in the draft next year?

As much as Newton would love to sit out, doing so would be incredibly risky. There is no way he's #1 next year (Luck) and it's likely he wouldn't even be #2 (Barkley) or #3 (Landry Jones) and he's even competing for best athletic QB with Pryor.

For a guy like Darius it doesn't matter. He's top 10 either way. But for certain players the NFL could really strong arm them and force them into difficult decisions.

JPhillips

04-25-2011, 07:51 PM

The NFL can't institute a rookie cap without going through collective bargaining. If they tried it would kill them in their court battle with the players.

bulletsponge

04-25-2011, 08:33 PM

i hope newton and gabbert go before the Vikes pick. both are going to be busts

TroyF

04-25-2011, 09:17 PM

The NFL can't institute a rookie cap without going through collective bargaining. If they tried it would kill them in their court battle with the players.

They don't have to institute an official cap though. They can just say they'll pay them what they want. Each team gets to decide for themselves. No worries about a slotting system.

As it is, if the players win and have no union, you can't tell me the owners won't react to that by simply reducing the overall salaries each team pays. No union and no contract means no ceiling. . . but also no floor. Certain owners already went on the cheap this year (including the team with the first pick) There will be more that will go on the cheap next year.

If the Panthers tell Newton they'll pay him where #15 was payed last year, how can it be illegal? They are playing without a union and without a contract.

CU Tiger

04-25-2011, 09:33 PM

How many successful NFL starting QB's fit that mold right now? I ask a bit skeptically, but honestly do not know.

I would love to have the time to go team by team on this but dont.
I think the better question would be how many starters are 0-4. And Id bet that is closer to 0.

BTW if you read Parcells whole gammet. He dosnt say a successful QB must av those 4...he says in order to DRAFT a QB he must have those, otherwise he is too much of a risk. I think the past 20 top 10 QBs comparedagainst that list would bear out his philosophy.

Mike Lowe

04-25-2011, 09:43 PM

I wasn't trying to sound arrogant in asking my question earlier...sorry if I came across that way:

Let's see how this really looks. These are guys who, without doing "official" research I remember having some decent playing time at QB last year.

D. Anderson*
Boller*
Brady
Brees
Brohm*
Campbell*
Cassel
Clausen
K. Collins*
Croyle*
Cutler
Delhomme*
Favre
Fitzpatrick*
Flacco
Freeman
Frye*
Garrard
Gradkowski*
Grossman*
M. Hall*
Hasselbeck
Henne*
Hill*
Kolb*
E. Manning
P. Manning
McCoy*
McNabb*
Orton
Palmer
Pennington*
B. Quinn*
Rivers
Rodgers
Roethlisberger
Romo
Ryan
Sanchez
Schaub
A. Smith*
T. Smith*
Stafford
Tebow*
Thigpen*
Vick
Young*

*Basically refers to a player not usually pegged as a "futures" starter. May have seen time, big or small, for whatever reason. They're not (or weren't in 2010) considered any of a starter/staple/franchise/lock in the organization I guess...

I'm heading to bed for now, but if someone wants to make a pretty grid...that was my next step!

CU Tiger

04-25-2011, 09:47 PM

grrrr...got me working on it now.
BTW didnt take your post as arogant in any way sorry if I came off that way myself.
Ill give this 30 minutes or so pt up what I have and if anyone wants to finish it off later...

Mike Lowe

04-25-2011, 09:48 PM

Haha, no worries. After this weekend, this is all the NFL we got unless we get a surprise from Jim!

CU Tiger

04-25-2011, 10:06 PM

stevew

04-25-2011, 10:57 PM

Wouldn't Sanchez be a pretty good comp for college playing time and questionable moral character?

Or even Roethlisberger? I suppose I'd rather have a guy who tore up the SEC vs a MAC starter. Is Newton gonna be that Sanchez/Ben type who can play at a decent level for a few years before breaking out?

If he goes to Carolina, I don't see it working out for him.

fantom1979

04-26-2011, 12:21 AM

I think you were already heading down that road, but one nice thing going for Sanchez/Big Ben is that they both were drafted by teams that were ready to win. All they had to do was not turn the ball over and those teams were contenders.

Carolina is interesting because they have a pair of 23 year old receivers and a pair of 24 year old running backs that all got playing time last year. I wonder if the Panthers can turn it around like the '07 Falcons did with Matt Ryan. I think Jonathan Stewart could be the next Michael Turner, but I am not sure if they have a Roddy White on their team.

fantom1979

04-26-2011, 12:24 AM

After looking at Carolina's receivers last year, I noticed that Dwayne Jarrett has just about disappeared. Its really surprising to me how USC receivers have continued to disappoint in the NFL.

R. Jay Soward, Keary Colbert, Mike Williams, Steve Smith (NYG), and Jarrett were all taken in the first 2 rounds since 2000. Only Smith has had a 100 yard season.

Mountaineer

04-26-2011, 05:57 AM

JPhillips

04-26-2011, 06:18 AM

They don't have to institute an official cap though. They can just say they'll pay them what they want. Each team gets to decide for themselves. No worries about a slotting system.

As it is, if the players win and have no union, you can't tell me the owners won't react to that by simply reducing the overall salaries each team pays. No union and no contract means no ceiling. . . but also no floor. Certain owners already went on the cheap this year (including the team with the first pick) There will be more that will go on the cheap next year.

If the Panthers tell Newton they'll pay him where #15 was payed last year, how can it be illegal? They are playing without a union and without a contract.

If the players win in court the union will recertify. Remember, the court case is built around unfair labor practices. Skipping the bargaining process and unilaterally making compensation decisions will only prove the players' case.

Thomkal

04-26-2011, 06:44 AM

The Carolina Panthers drafted 3 QBs last year.

2nd Clausen
3rd Edwards
6th Pike

Why in the world would they need to draft another QB? I think both Clausen and Pike need more time to develop.

I say it is a bluff to try and get another team to trade up and take a QB. I also think they are behind this whole Cam Newton PR crap storm.

I look for them to trade down or take Marcell Dareus.

They didn't actually draft Edwards to be a QB, they thought they could make him a WR, and they traded up to get him wasting yet more draft picks-all those established WR's out there when you so desperately need one-and you pick a project QB to WR player. Yet another reason why their GM needs to be fired.

I don't think anyone is going to trade up with Carolina to get Newton-the spectre of Jamarcus Russell is hanging over this draft and no team wants to get burned like the Raiders did. Too many questions about him on and off the field.

gstelmack

04-26-2011, 08:05 AM

I'd much rather see Carolina go WR or DL or fill any of a huge number of other holes than pick another QB. Get a veteran who can hold things together for a season and let Clausen / Pike develop and gain experience. Taking either Newton or Gabbert #1 overall, even if a rookie cap is in place that means they don't have to pay a ton of money for them, would mean wasting all of last draft. And QB wasn't the huge gaping hole, they haven't had a WR worth throwing to since Steve Smith a few years back. Maybe Smith can have a good season again if someone takes the pressure off of him, but with no one to throw to, even a TE, how do they expect Newton/Gabbert/Dalton/any of these guys to be successful?

Thomkal

04-26-2011, 08:30 AM

with you 100% there gstelmack-they've done a terrible job drafting and developing receivers-you just can't expect a rapidly aging Steve Smith to carry the team on his shoulders anymore-he needs help and a lot of it.

QuikSand

04-26-2011, 08:33 AM

Thomkal

04-26-2011, 09:01 AM

I'm comfortable going on record saying that Jimmy Claussen and Tony Pike have no business at all appearing as a meaningful part of any discussion about what Carolina ought to do with a cornerstone-type draft selection.

if Andrew Luck had been there for Carolina I would agree with you Quik. I have serious doubts Newton can be a cornerstone-type draft selection though, and what if they end up at #1 again and Newton isn't showing the progress they expected and/or has off the field issues? Draft yet another QB with their third first pick of the draft in a row? Do you think Newton can be the franchise QB Carolina needs? Carolina apparantly does.

DaddyTorgo

04-26-2011, 09:04 AM

Blackadar

04-26-2011, 09:11 AM

I'm comfortable going on record saying that Jimmy Claussen and Tony Pike have no business at all appearing as a meaningful part of any discussion about what Carolina ought to do with a cornerstone-type draft selection.

This is very true. It doesn't matter if they selected 100 QBs last year. If they're not confident that those guys are The Franchise and they feel that someone like Cam Newton is, you grab him without hesitation.

I look for them to trade down or take Marcell Dareus.

I'm sure Carolina would like to trade down. There's just no one to trade with. There's no reason that anyone under Carolina would move up to the #1 spot because there's no outstanding must-have player in this draft. If Luck had come out, then Carolina would have had a number of offers for that #1 pick.

It's true that Carolina has no one to throw the ball and no one to throw the ball to and the FA pickins' are rather slim. Santonio Holmes, Sidney Rice and Braylon Edwards may be the best WRs on the open market and you'll have to overpay to get one.

But I'd still go with a QB if I thought he might be The Guy. Clausen looked downright awful last year and so did Matt Moore - neither broke 60 with their QB rating. Furthermore, they just looked entirely ineffective. You could put AJ Green on that team and he's not going to do anything unless someone can get him the ball. Look at Sam Bradford - he did well with a bunch of awful WRs last year. It's a chicken and egg thing, and I'm a firm believer that you get the QB first and then worry about the WRs later. Now if I didn't think Cam Newton or Blaine Gabbert were The Guy, then that's a whole different issue.

QuikSand

04-26-2011, 09:53 AM

if Andrew Luck had been there for Carolina I would agree with you Quik. I have serious doubts Newton can be a cornerstone-type draft selection though, and what if they end up at #1 again and Newton isn't showing the progress they expected and/or has off the field issues? Draft yet another QB with their third first pick of the draft in a row? Do you think Newton can be the franchise QB Carolina needs? Carolina apparantly does.

I'm not saying I am sold on Cam. Not at all, honestly. I'm just saying that no NFL team should be looking at those guys and concluding anything at all about the future of their team's QB position. If you don't think you have a build-around QB in this draft, fine, go somewhere else. But for crying out loud, you don't decide you're set at QB because you have pocket lint like Jimmy Claussen already on hand. I'm pretty much with Blackadar above.

Blackadar

04-26-2011, 10:24 AM

I'm not saying I am sold on Cam. Not at all, honestly. I'm just saying that no NFL team should be looking at those guys and concluding anything at all about the future of their team's QB position. If you don't think you have a build-around QB in this draft, fine, go somewhere else. But for crying out loud, you don't decide you're set at QB because you have pocket lint like Jimmy Claussen already on hand. I'm pretty much with Blackadar above.

It all depends on how they like that "pocket lint" (love that!) Jimmy Claussen. He was a good college QB and the general consensus was that Carolina stole him when they got him in the 2nd round.

What bothers me about Claussen is that he didn't show any real signs of improvement. Even once he knew the team was his, he posted QB ratings of 54, 51, 107, 33 and 70 in his last 5 games. He was sacked 17 times, threw 4 picks and only 2 tds in that span. He never showed even a glimmer that he might be potentially a good starting NFL QB. There was never an "ah-ha" game or even a moment. He reminded me of Chris Wenke, who went 2-17 with a 54 career passing rating for the Panthers.

I'm most certainly not sold on Cam Newton either. How could anyone be with only 280 throws in his entire college career AND who ran an offense that was simpler than most high school offenses? The guy has some unbelievable skills, but whether or not he becomes a decent NFL QB is far from certain. Frankly, I don't feel good about any of the QBs in this draft. I think that Ryan Mallett, Ricky Stanzi and Greg McElroy may be the best of the bunch.

Personally, I'd put the odds at 75/25 that Cam Newton is a bust. I'm not sure he has the aptitude to understand the NFL game nor the attitude to work at it to get it. I like what I see on tape, but man oh man is he going to have a learning curve. But then again, that's why the NFL has the combine, private workouts and so forth...to figure out the "unknowns" about a player. And that's stuff none of us are privy to.

Personally, if I were selecting and only knowing what I know now (which isn't all that much compared to a NFL GM), I'd take Patrick Peterson with the #1 overall selection.

jbergey22

04-26-2011, 10:50 AM

Personally, if I were selecting and only knowing what I know now (which isn't all that much compared to a NFL GM), I'd take Patrick Peterson with the #1 overall selection.

Agree 100 percent with this.

I also think that NFL teams other than the Pats tend to waste draft picks looking for something that is not there. The teams in the NFL will pass on great players just to try and hope that X player will become the next Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. I will never understand why they arent building up their roster for that time they find that franchise QB. If we look at 3 of the top 4 qbs in the NFL right now only one of them was drafted early in the first round.

Radii

04-26-2011, 11:03 AM

Since there are so many QBs in this draft Carolina should just boost their defense with #1 overall and take a QB in the 2nd round. Oh, they traded their 2nd round pick last year? To the Patriots? For the right to draft Armanti Edwards? The QB Carolina thought they could turn into a WR who ended up inactive 15 out of their 16 games last year to the surprise of absolutely no one? Oh, right. Right. In that case I recommend that the panthers fire Matt Millen or whatever his name is and hire a GM who isn't so fucking stupid before they go draft a QB with one year of experience who has character issues.

Draft Dareus and hope you suck just as bad next year, Andrew Luck can't dodge Charlotte two years in a row!

Blackadar

04-26-2011, 11:09 AM

Agree 100 percent with this.

I also think that NFL teams other than the Pats tend to waste draft picks looking for something that is not there. The teams in the NFL will pass on great players just to try and hope that X player will become the next Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. I will never understand why they arent building up their roster for that time they find that franchise QB. If we look at 3 of the top 4 qbs in the NFL right now only one of them was drafted early in the first round.

9 of 12 NFL playoff starting QBs were 1st round picks and 19 of 32 teams have a 1st rounder starting for them. Sure, Brees was a 2nd rounder and Brady we all know about, but look at the rest of the upper-echelon of QBs:

Peyton: 1(1)
Big Ben: 1(11)
Aaron Rodgers: 1 (24)
Phillip Rivers: 1(4)
Matty Ice: 1(3)
Vick: 1(1)

Take the next level of QBs - Romo, Schaub, Eli, Sam Bradford, Josh Freeman, Cutler, Palmer and Orton...only Schaub (3rd round), Romo (UFA) and Orton (3rd round) weren't drafted in the 1st round.

So, that's what? 6 of the top 8 and 11 of the top 16 QBs were 1st round picks?

It doesn't mean that you should reach for a QB, but the evidence suggests that if you're looking for a QB, you're highly likely to find the best guys selected in the 1st round. Everyone after that is pretty much a long-shot.

Passacaglia

04-26-2011, 11:28 AM

Also, why would you only look at 3 of the Top 4 QBs? Why not just look at all 4 of them?

Thomkal

04-26-2011, 11:30 AM

jbergey22

04-26-2011, 11:33 AM

Also, why would you only look at 3 of the Top 4 QBs? Why not just look at all 4 of them?

Well the top 4 were all super bowl champs which is the goal of most NFL teams.(Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers)

When we start getting deeper in the rankings we have a lot more debate on the order and a lot less super bowl champions qbs.

jbergey22

04-26-2011, 11:41 AM

It doesn't mean that you should reach for a QB, but the evidence suggests that if you're looking for a QB, you're highly likely to find the best guys selected in the 1st round. Everyone after that is pretty much a long-shot.

I think more of the point is how many great players have been passed on to find these upper mid QBs like Eli and Cutler.

along with how many early 1st round qbs have turned out to be busts.

If I have the #1 overall pick I am looking for something more than an upper mid tier qb.

What is the ceiling for Cam? If he reaches his potential will he be as good as Josh Freeman?

Blackadar

04-26-2011, 11:43 AM

don't think they should go for WR Green? He certainly has a better chance at being the WR the Panthers have been searching for than any of the others they've drafted over the years-Clausen or whomever gets a little better just from having that second (hopefully) solid WR lining up with Smith.

No, I don't. Green can't be an impact player if he doesn't have someone who can get him the ball. Larry Fitzgerald scored 6tds last year because he had Derek Anderson and John Skelton throwing him the ball.

Besides, I think WRs are one of those positions you can draft later and get good value, especially in this draft class. There's some good depth in the 3rd and 4th rounds for WRs. WRs are different than QBs - good ones come from everywhere. Look at the top WRs from last year. Brandon Lloyd was a 4th rounder. Roddy White went 1(27). Reggie Wayne 1(30). Greg Jennings 2(52). Mike Wallace 3(84). Interestingly enough, the next 5 all went in the 1st round, but the next 5 after that none were 1st round picks. While you have a better chance of getting a stud if you pick him in the first, you can usually find talent at that position throughout the entire draft.

Blackadar

04-26-2011, 11:56 AM

I think more of the point is how many great players have been passed on to find these upper mid QBs like Eli and Cutler.

along with how many early 1st round qbs have turned out to be busts.

If I have the #1 overall pick I am looking for something more than an upper mid tier qb.

What is the ceiling for Cam? If he reaches his potential will he be as good as Josh Freeman?

I'm not sure what you're getting at. There's no guarantees no matter what you do. Yeah, JaMarcus Russel is a bust. So was Courtney Brown. Tim Couch didn't do all that well. Ki-Jana Carter didn't either. Dan Wilkinson...Andre Bruce...Steve Entmann. If I count the last 25 years worth of non-QB #1 overall picks, I'm running about 50% hit and miss ratio. If I could the last 25 years worth of QB #1 overall picks, I'm running at about a 50% hit/miss ratio. There ain't no such thing as a sure thing.

What's the ceiling for Cam? I don't think anyone can tell at this stage. Hell, I don't think anyone knew the ceiling for Josh Freeman, who was considered a reach when he was selected in the first round.

Well the top 4 were all super bowl champs which is the goal of most NFL teams.(Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers)

When we start getting deeper in the rankings we have a lot more debate on the order and a lot less super bowl champions qbs.

See, I think you're being purposely elusive here. I already posted the stats. You'll find that the majority of Super Bowls were won by QBs selected in the 1st round as well. The simple fact is that you're far, far more likely to find a good QB in the 1st round than any other position on the field. And a good QB is far, far more likely to lead to team success than any other position on the field.

jbergey22

04-26-2011, 11:59 AM

What I find really interesting is one of the best QBs in the NFL at the moment was expected to go #1 overall in what was considered a weak QB class and slipped to 24th overall. I felt so bad for Rodgers because he was slipping for no apparent reason at the time. I am happy he got the last laugh athough I wish it was with a team other than with Green Bay.

jbergey22

04-26-2011, 12:10 PM

See, I think you're being purposely elusive here. I already posted the stats. You'll find that the majority of Super Bowls were won by QBs selected in the 1st round as well. The simple fact is that you're far, far more likely to find a good QB in the 1st round than any other position on the field. And a good QB is far, far more likely to lead to team success than any other position on the field.

Well this of course is going to be true because teams reach for QBs in the 1st round and hand them the keys to the franchise and give them every chance to have success.

Look at Jimmy Clausen as an example. He was drafted in the 2nd round and got a half a year to prove himself now they are focusing on a different QB. Now look at Tim Couch and Alex Smith. They were given years to have success. The opportunity is there for 1st round picks while it isnt always there for later round picks. Again, I feel too many teams reach for QBs and pass on talented players at other position that would help them more down the road.

Passacaglia

04-26-2011, 12:15 PM

Well the top 4 were all super bowl champs which is the goal of most NFL teams.(Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers)

When we start getting deeper in the rankings we have a lot more debate on the order and a lot less super bowl champions qbs.

I didn't ask why you wanted to look at the Top 4, I asked why you wanted to look at 3 of the Top 4.

jbergey22

04-26-2011, 12:19 PM

I didn't ask why you wanted to look at the Top 4, I asked why you wanted to look at 3 of the Top 4.

I was just stating an opinion that 3 out of the 4 best QBs were not taken early in the 1st round. I didnt think I was hiding Manning from that comment.

gstelmack

04-26-2011, 12:38 PM

If you don't think you have a build-around QB in this draft, fine, go somewhere else. But for crying out loud, you don't decide you're set at QB because you have pocket lint like Jimmy Claussen already on hand. I'm pretty much with Blackadar above.

I'm not trying to say Claussen and Pike are "it", but I am saying you need a bit more than the chance they've been given. Combined with Carolina having "pocket lint" at receiver, catching tight ends, defensive line, defensive back, etc, and the number of QBs that have needed time to settle in (we don't know yet if Claussen is Rex Grossman or Drew Brees) especially without any sort of mentor and a coaching staff that wants to run the ball and for whom the passing game is an after-thought, I think they should be looking to fill a different gaping hole right now and revisit QB in a year or two.

Or maybe draft 3 more QBs and hope you finally hit one...

Blackadar

04-26-2011, 12:58 PM

Well this of course is going to be true because teams reach for QBs in the 1st round and hand them the keys to the franchise and give them every chance to have success.

Look at Jimmy Clausen as an example. He was drafted in the 2nd round and got a half a year to prove himself now they are focusing on a different QB. Now look at Tim Couch and Alex Smith. They were given years to have success. The opportunity is there for 1st round picks while it isnt always there for later round picks. Again, I feel too many teams reach for QBs and pass on talented players at other position that would help them down the road.

That holds true of 1st round picks no matter what position. And it's not like Couch/Smith were entirely ineffective (aka JaMarcus Russell) - they're just not good or great like their draft position suggests. Not to mention both have somewhat extenuating circumstances (Couch getting pummeled his first few years and developing shoulder issues, Smith's constantly changing offensive coordinators).

I'm not going to argue that teams do reach for QBs...Akili Smith being a prime example in the 1999 draft. The reason is that QB is the most important position on the field and if you don't have a good one, you really don't have much of a chance of succeeding. That upper mid tier QB is usually far more important than an All-Pro at another position.

---

I've watched a fair amount of tape on Cam Newton this year. Physically, the guy can make every throw in the book. He's elusive, quick, fast, strong and wins...which is a biggie in my book. He has mechanical issues, but most are easily correctable footwork problems and I think he has an easy throwing motion. Given those footwork issues, he's still pretty damned accurate with his throws. I like the way he reacts to pocket pressure and game pressure. He commands the huddle and looks like he's genuinely having fun out there. He has the "it" factor, whatever it is. If you compare Cam Newton with Vince Young, you'll find Cam has a better YTA, more TDs, fewer Ints and higher completion percentage.

What I don't like are the things I can't find out. His offense was incredible simple at Auburn. When he was interviewed by Jon Gruden, Cam didn't seem to have a clue what Gruden was talking about at times. Now Gruden's lingo is extremely complicated (hence the reason he could never develop a QB himself and always picked up a veteran to run his offenses), but Cam looked lost. That's a major concern.

He didn't have to read defenses at Auburn and relied on his amazing physical skills. Even Mike Vick - who I consider the most amazing athlete to come into the NFL since Bo Jackson - couldn't get away with that.

I didn't like the fact he didn't look Gruden in the eye all that much during that interview. He has a history of trouble and I don't believe for a minute that he didn't know his father was trying to sell him to the highest bidder. I wonder if he's willing to put the work into the mental side of the game that he's going to have to do to succeed.

Now if I'm the GM of the Panthers, I've had opportunities during the combine, pro days and team visits to figure that stuff out. I've had probably a dozen or more hours of personal time to interview him, put him through drills, psych tests, etc. to determine whether or not he can learn the game at the next level (and whether I think he'll choose to do so). That's what none of us knows and that's why GMs get paid big bucks to make those decisions.

So is Cam Newton a reach at #1? Only if Carolina hasn't done their due diligence on the mental aspects of the game. If they pass on him, you can bet that they didn't like what they found.

As I said earlier, knowing what I know right now, I'd take Patrick Peterson at #1. But I also know that I don't know enough to really make that determination. All I can tell you is that if Cam Newton fails, I have a pretty good idea where he'd fail and why.

jbergey22

04-26-2011, 01:03 PM

Very well said!

I think Cam is more inaccurate than you appear to think but like you mention with proper footwork that can be corrected.

Blackadar

04-26-2011, 01:04 PM

I'm not trying to say Claussen and Pike are "it", but I am saying you need a bit more than the chance they've been given. Combined with Carolina having "pocket lint" at receiver, catching tight ends, defensive line, defensive back, etc, and the number of QBs that have needed time to settle in (we don't know yet if Claussen is Rex Grossman or Drew Brees) especially without any sort of mentor and a coaching staff that wants to run the ball and for whom the passing game is an after-thought, I think they should be looking to fill a different gaping hole right now and revisit QB in a year or two.

Or maybe draft 3 more QBs and hope you finally hit one...

But if you think Cam Newton is IT, why wouldn't you take him regardless of Claussen and Pike (and Matt Moore)? If I have a bunch of unknown variables at QB and a guy who I think is a sure thing is available, I'm grabbing him.

Besides, if Carolina was sure about Claussen when they got him in the 2nd round, they wouldn't have drafted Tony Pike in the 6th.

Remember, coach Ron Rivera hasn't had any time with any of these guys, so they're all very unknown quantities. If they look at the tape and decide that Cam's their best best, I don't know why you'd pass on him. You never, ever pass on a guy you think will be a franchise QB.

Would you feel the same way if Carolina could select Andrew Luck this year? Because the same logic you're using would apply...

Passacaglia

04-26-2011, 01:19 PM

I was just stating an opinion that 3 out of the 4 best QBs were not taken early in the 1st round. I didnt think I was hiding Manning from that comment.

I didn't say you were. I was just trying to make sense of your phrasing. My mistake.

gstelmack

04-26-2011, 01:23 PM

But if you think Cam Newton is IT, why wouldn't you take him regardless of Claussen and Pike (and Matt Moore)? If I have a bunch of unknown variables at QB and a guy who I think is a sure thing is available, I'm grabbing him.

Besides, if Carolina was sure about Claussen when they got him in the 2nd round, they wouldn't have drafted Tony Pike in the 6th.

Remember, coach Ron Rivera hasn't had any time with any of these guys, so they're all very unknown quantities. If they look at the tape and decide that Cam's their best best, I don't know why you'd pass on him. You never, ever pass on a guy you think will be a franchise QB.

Would you feel the same way if Carolina could select Andrew Luck this year? Because the same logic you're using would apply...

Carolina just has so many holes. And I guess part of my reaction is the fear they'll pick Newton, I just don't get the infatuation with him (the guy called plays by NUMBER for crying out loud). I'm not trying to make a broad generalization to apply to any draft, I'm looking at Carolina's situation in particular where they've made bad draft trades to limit the number of picks, took 3 QBs last year that have left other huge holes on the roster, got old at a lot of positions and not many good youngsters to fill the gaps, and the like. Maybe if there really were a "true #1", but I just don't see it among the QBs.

I'd feel better about them going QB #1 overall if they had managed to resist the Claussen / Pike urges and upgrade other parts of their roster last year and had filled some of these holes. Maybe I'd feel better if Luck was around. Heck, I might feel better if they shocked everyone and picked someone like Dalton or Stanzi here instead of Gabbert or Newton because that would show me they had actually found something instead of going with the flow. If they pick Newton, I'd be more worried they were trying to sell tickets to get folks to see him than really trying to build a foundation for a future winning football team.

But yeah, I guess if you're looking at it as essentially starting over, and they are really happy with a particular QB, then you might as well grab him, and start filling some of these other holes later. Just not sure I trust them on this...

Blackadar

04-26-2011, 01:44 PM

But yeah, I guess if you're looking at it as essentially starting over, and they are really happy with a particular QB, then you might as well grab him, and start filling some of these other holes later. Just not sure I trust them on this...

For good reason. Let's go back through their top pick in each draft.

Jimmy Claussen
Everett Brown
Jon Stewart
Jon Beason
DeAngelo Williams
Thomas Davis
Chris Gamble
Jordan Gross
Julius Peppers
Dan Morgan
Rashard Anderson
Chris Terry
Jason Peter
Rae Carruth
Tim Biakabutuka
Kerry Collins

That's 16 years of picks and only 3 real hits - Beason, Gross and Peppers. Morgan's career was hampered by injuries, there's a couple of solid starters in there and the rest are largely forgettable. That's not what you want from your list of #1s. It's amazing that Carolina has actually had some periods of success given their spotty draft history. With that kind of track record, you should bet against whomever they select!

jbergey22

04-26-2011, 01:46 PM

Id say Deangelo as a late first was a hit and Stewart has looked damn good in his first few years athough even 5 of 16 is horrible.

Thomkal

04-26-2011, 01:48 PM

No, I don't. Green can't be an impact player if he doesn't have someone who can get him the ball. Larry Fitzgerald scored 6tds last year because he had Derek Anderson and John Skelton throwing him the ball.

Besides, I think WRs are one of those positions you can draft later and get good value, especially in this draft class. There's some good depth in the 3rd and 4th rounds for WRs. WRs are different than QBs - good ones come from everywhere. Look at the top WRs from last year. Brandon Lloyd was a 4th rounder. Roddy White went 1(27). Reggie Wayne 1(30). Greg Jennings 2(52). Mike Wallace 3(84). Interestingly enough, the next 5 all went in the 1st round, but the next 5 after that none were 1st round picks. While you have a better chance of getting a stud if you pick him in the first, you can usually find talent at that position throughout the entire draft.

Fitz was also without Boldin this past season, and the new #2 Breaston was injured and only started 11 games-so like Carolina, it was basically Fitz by himself. I don't care how good those two may be-your numbers are going to be down because the defense knows that you're the one they need to stop, so he was double covered, probably even triple covered at times, bumped hard at the line of scrimmage, etc. Of course his numbers were going to be down anyway because of the QB's, but he still had over 1000 yards receiving. Put a fully healthy Breaston back and Fitz numbers will improve no matter who the QB is (Please for the love of God don't let that be Derek Anderson).

The Panthers have tried middle round WR's and 2nd round receivers in their recent draft history. None have panned out so far. I'll play a bit of a wait and see on the three WR's they drafted in the 3rd round (2 of them) and 6th round last season, but they have drafted 7 WR's since Steve Smith was drafted in 2001, and none so far have panned out. It was a good thing they had Muhammed there for a good chunk of that time, or they would have been really struggling at that position. Clearly they have either been unlucky at drafting receivers in the later rounds, or not very good at developing them. Green is not a can't miss of course-no one is, but he certainly has the most chance to be the best receiver the Panthers have drafted since Smith.

Thomkal

04-26-2011, 01:59 PM

Blackadar

04-26-2011, 02:33 PM

On the Panthers drafting WRs...

Yes, their track record is horrible. I don't think that means they shouldn't draft a WR in the first round. But given where the depth in this particular draft is at the WR position, I think they could easily wait and grab a decent one in the 3rd. They have little chance of having one of the thought-to-be-better QBs falling to them in the 3rd.

On Fitzgerald...

The point still stands. If an incredible, top 5 talent WR like Fitzy couldn't make an impact last year, what chance does a rookie have? So the lack of impact that a WR rookie could have on the Panthers coupled with the depth of the WR class in this draft leads me to believe that the Panthers shouldn't go WR with the #1 pick. In fact, I'd take Dareus, Miller, Peterson and a few others before I'd take a WR if I were Carolina.

On Newton/Claussen vs Anderson/Skelton/Hall

Nah, ya'll will have Mark Bulger or Kevin Kolb under center.

stevew

04-26-2011, 02:34 PM

Rae Carruth was a hit......man.

QuikSand

04-26-2011, 02:57 PM

Isn't it fairly well accepted that if you spend a top draft pick at either QB or WR, you are making an investment for the longer term than the initial weeks of the coming season? There are positions that tend to yield an immediate impact - but WR and QB seem to be the most consistent at landing at the other end of that spectrum.

Not saying I disagree with the idea of Carolina securing a top defender here, that's fine by me too. I just don't necessarily think that pushing in every single chip possible to try to squeeze 7 wins out of the 2011 Panthers is really the angle I'd be shooting for.

Thomkal

04-26-2011, 03:06 PM

Yes, their track record is horrible. I don't think that means they shouldn't draft a WR in the first round. But given where the depth in this particular draft is at the WR position, I think they could easily wait and grab a decent one in the 3rd. They have little chance of having one of the thought-to-be-better QBs falling to them in the 3rd.

The point still stands. If an incredible, top 5 talent WR like Fitzy couldn't make an impact last year, what chance does a rookie have? So the lack of impact that a WR rookie could have on the Panthers coupled with the depth of the WR class in this draft leads me to believe that the Panthers shouldn't go WR with the #1 pick. In fact, I'd take Dareus, Miller, Peterson and a few others before I'd take a WR if I were Carolina.

Nah, ya'll will have Mark Bulger or Kevin Kolb under center.

God please not Bulger-he's completely faded away these past few seasons-but that would be a veteran QB Coach Whis would go after probably. I think who the Cardinals draft in the first or second round tell the story on Kolb here. If they don't draft one, I think its because they are going to go after Kolb (or McNabb).

JonInMiddleGA

04-26-2011, 03:08 PM

Elsewhere in the draft ...

Report: UGA's Justin Houston tested positive for marijuana | Mark Bradley (http://blogs.ajc.com/mark-bradley-blog/2011/04/26/a-draft-red-flag-ugas-houston-tests-positive-for-marijuana/)

Matthean

04-26-2011, 03:12 PM

Thomkal

04-26-2011, 03:31 PM

Interestingly enough (well for me being a Cardinal fan at all), the Cards fans over at SB Nation think that the Cards are most likely to draft LB Miller, then CB Peterson, and 10% think they will trade down. Only 5% seem to think they will take QB Gabbert which seems a bit low even factoring in that he might be taken above the Cards pick, and only 1% says WR Green and QB Cam Newton.

Green becomes an even more interesting pick for the Cards because of the contract situation of their top 3 WR's from last season. Only Fitzgerald is signed and its the last year of his contract-neither Breaston or Doucet are signed. That could certainly play into things if Green is there at #5.

Blackadar

04-26-2011, 03:57 PM

God please not Bulger-he's completely faded away these past few seasons-but that would be a veteran QB Coach Whis would go after probably. I think who the Cardinals draft in the first or second round tell the story on Kolb here. If they don't draft one, I think its because they are going to go after Kolb (or McNabb).

I'd rather have Bulger than McNabb in your system. I'm not sure how much he has "faded". Given the horrendous talent and awful coaching during his last two seasons with St. Louis, I don't put much of the blame on him. I think the guy has a couple of years left.

Kolb is most certainly a possibility as well. But you'll give up your 1st next year (plus probably a 4th) to get him, whereas Bulger won't cost you a thing in compensation.

If 'Zona doesn't go after a QB with their top pick, then Bulger is probably your starter this year as he mentors one of your young guys.

stevew

04-26-2011, 11:54 PM

Questionable twitter sources are "confirming" that Carolina is going to go with Newton.

M GO BLUE!!!

04-27-2011, 12:08 AM

Questionable twitter sources are "confirming" that Carolina is going to go with Newton.

What, was a former player who owns season tickets supposedly phoned by Reverend Newton?

B & B

04-27-2011, 12:33 AM

Just means you draft him later at a bargain.

Bingo.

If he slips down to the 2nd round, its a steal.

Yeck fans gotta hate.

Swaggs

04-27-2011, 08:11 AM

Rivals put out a list of which colleges put out the most draftees and first round picks: Rivals.com College Football - By the numbers: NFL draft since 2000 (http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1215565)

Most draft picks
1. Ohio State 73
2. USC 69
3. Miami 67
4. Georgia 61
5. Tennessee 60
6t. Florida 59
6t. Florida State 59
8. LSU 55
9. Virginia Tech 52
10t. Michigan 49
10t. Oklahoma 49

Most first-rounders
1. Miami 26
2. Ohio State 16
3. USC 15
4t. Florida State 14
4t. Texas 14
6t. Florida 12
6t. Oklahoma 12
6t. Tennessee 12
9. Georgia 11
10. Penn State 10

JonInMiddleGA

04-27-2011, 08:22 AM

Yeck fans gotta hate.

Hey, if it had been some sleazeball in Old Gold & White that was this stupid I would have posted that too ... if there'd been an actual draft prospect on campus recently anyways.

stevew

04-28-2011, 12:12 AM

They were talking about it on the BS Report......how bad are the boos for Goddell going to really be? I'm thinking somewhere between "The Jets Select from the University of Virginia, Jeff Lageman" and Bash at the Beach Hulk Hogan/Outsiders level.

jbergey22

04-28-2011, 02:42 AM

Thomkal

04-28-2011, 01:39 PM

Yes, their track record is horrible. I don't think that means they shouldn't draft a WR in the first round. But given where the depth in this particular draft is at the WR position, I think they could easily wait and grab a decent one in the 3rd. They have little chance of having one of the thought-to-be-better QBs falling to them in the 3rd.

The point still stands. If an incredible, top 5 talent WR like Fitzy couldn't make an impact last year, what chance does a rookie have? So the lack of impact that a WR rookie could have on the Panthers coupled with the depth of the WR class in this draft leads me to believe that the Panthers shouldn't go WR with the #1 pick. In fact, I'd take Dareus, Miller, Peterson and a few others before I'd take a WR if I were Carolina.

Nah, ya'll will have Mark Bulger or Kevin Kolb under center.

Looks like you might be right here Blackadar:

Cardinals may “already have understanding” with Bulger | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/28/cardinals-may-already-have-understanding-with-bulger/related/)

Galaxy

04-28-2011, 06:42 PM

I hate the Thursday night draft, and would personally like to tell Roger Goddell/whomever thought of the idea to get fucked.

I agree. Are the ratings really up? As with any organized sports (NCAA or pro), if it works, fix it.

I heard on the radio that reports are saying Von Miller could go to Denver at No. 2.

JediKooter

04-28-2011, 06:50 PM

I'm curious to see how many picks the Raiders will trade to the Patriots.

Warhammer

04-28-2011, 07:01 PM

I look at Newton as a clone of Russell who has a better personality. With every additional interview I see with the guy, warning alarms go off.

Young Drachma

04-28-2011, 07:05 PM

I look at Newton as a clone of Russell who has a better personality. With every additional interview I see with the guy, warning alarms go off.

Yeah. I think he's a lot more talented on the whole, so with the right system he can be a decent QB in the league. I don't think he's Akili Smith. But yeah, I hate his interviews and I cringe every time he opens his mouth. And clearly in that particular interview, he was obviously using his coaching to say the same things over and over again.

bulletsponge

04-28-2011, 07:08 PM

i hope im wrong, but i would be surprised if he (newton) was still in the league in 6 years

Warhammer

04-28-2011, 07:09 PM

Yeah, Russell had some tools, he completely lacked a work ethic and was happy with getting paid.

I don't think Newton completely lacks a work ethic, but I'm not sure he has the make up to become a great QB.

DanGarion

04-28-2011, 07:12 PM

Galaxy

04-28-2011, 07:14 PM

And ESPN is crap again.

remper

04-28-2011, 07:20 PM

Does Gruden HAVE to be involved in everything NFL related on ESPN? Now THAT guy ruins my watching enjoyment.

Also, Carolina will regret that pick... so much. So much...

Young Drachma

04-28-2011, 07:20 PM

Yeah just you reminded me to go to the NFL Network.

MrBug708

04-28-2011, 07:20 PM

So much for a surprise on any of these....w2g ESPN

Thomkal

04-28-2011, 07:25 PM

Sadly I think Newton is more likely to be a bust than a star and its means two bad top picks for the Panthes in a row.

Thomkal

04-28-2011, 07:27 PM

oh man here comes the Cards pick-its probably Peterson, but could really be just about anybody they have so many holes, which may lead to a trade.

Thomkal

04-28-2011, 07:33 PM

Marc Bulger here we come to the Cards I guess. *sigh* their defense needs help so I can't say its a bad pick.

Thomkal

04-28-2011, 07:35 PM

interesting ESPN saying Atlanta had a deal to move up to get Green at #4, but fell apart near the end.

Thomkal

04-28-2011, 07:38 PM

hey people I'm talking to myself here... :)

bulletsponge

04-28-2011, 07:39 PM

bulletsponge

04-28-2011, 07:40 PM

hope sf take gabbert

Warhammer

04-28-2011, 07:40 PM

Sorry, I just went into mourning since the Rams didn't move up to get Jones. They are close to being where they were in 1998. They have many good players in place, but they need that guy to put them over the top on offense.

path12

04-28-2011, 07:41 PM

Wow. Nice job, Holmgren. That's a haul for Cleveland. Atlanta is obviously in "win now" mode.

britrock88

04-28-2011, 07:41 PM

RedKingGold

04-28-2011, 07:42 PM

According to FOF, Atlanta underpaid.

Noop

04-28-2011, 07:43 PM

Gabbert will slide a little. God I hope the Dolphins don't pick him although I do want us to draft a QB.

Thomkal

04-28-2011, 07:45 PM

According to FOF, Atlanta underpaid.

FOF is wrong. :) But hey Atlanta is a team with the luxury to make this kind of lopsided deal-they dont have many holes and now they are going to be scary good on offense.

Galaxy

04-28-2011, 07:45 PM

WOW!

Thomkal

04-28-2011, 07:45 PM

OMG Titans take Jake Locker

Young Drachma

04-28-2011, 07:45 PM

WOW

Noop

04-28-2011, 07:46 PM

Wow. Jake Locker?

Wow. Atlanta got raped.

Young Drachma

04-28-2011, 07:46 PM

I love the fit.

Thomkal

04-28-2011, 07:46 PM

I think a lot of people just lost $10 million dollars lol :)

Galaxy

04-28-2011, 07:46 PM

Did Al Davis buy the Titans?

mckerney

04-28-2011, 07:47 PM

First highlight of Locker they have is him running the zone read, that will sure help him in Tennessee....

mckerney

04-28-2011, 07:48 PM

And it's followed up with interceptions and missing receivers with no pressure. Glad he went here, I was worried he'd go to the Vikings.

Lathum

04-28-2011, 07:48 PM

Today has honestly been one of the worst of my life, but seeing Jake get drafted 8th over all gave me a moment of happiness.

Radii

04-28-2011, 07:49 PM

NFL Network shows a good run then three horrible throws/decisions in their highlight package of Locker. I found that to be pretty hilarious.

JonInMiddleGA

04-28-2011, 07:49 PM

Wow. Jake Locker?
Wow. Atlanta got raped.

I don't get to do this with Noop posts very often but ...

+1

If the Falcons are in "win now" mode, why give up that much to get a guy who may not be able to learn the offense?

remper

04-28-2011, 07:51 PM

And it's followed up with interceptions and missing receivers with no pressure. Glad he went here, I was worried he'd go to the Vikings.

Aren't you a Locker Stocker?! I'd vote for him... DAMN YOU GRUDEN, GET OFF MY TV! I think I'll turn off the TV and get updates online...

bulletsponge

04-28-2011, 07:53 PM

dallas needs a tackle badly, their Oline has been a liability the last few years.

Thomkal

04-28-2011, 07:55 PM

Hey goodell stop smiling when the fans boo you.

mckerney

04-28-2011, 07:55 PM

Aren't you a Locker Stocker?! I'd vote for him... DAMN YOU GRUDEN, GET OFF MY TV! I think I'll turn off the TV and get updates online...

You can watch NFL Network online.

Warhammer

04-28-2011, 07:56 PM

I think Locker will be a good fit in Tennessee.

remper

04-28-2011, 07:58 PM

You can watch NFL Network online.

I just found that out. Sweet.

Thomkal

04-28-2011, 07:58 PM

man ESPN coverage worse than ever, wish I had NFL Network.

Thomkal

04-28-2011, 08:00 PM

heh obviously I didn't see that before I posted. :)

Young Drachma

04-28-2011, 08:02 PM

Gabbert it is.

stevew

04-28-2011, 08:02 PM

Really poor take home for Cleveland. They needed another 2nd in next year to match value.

Eaglesfan27

04-28-2011, 08:04 PM

Love to see Tyron go in the top 10, sad to see it is to Dallas.

Young Drachma

04-28-2011, 08:04 PM

Why are they comparing him to Sam Bradford.

Lathum

04-28-2011, 08:07 PM

man ESPN coverage worse than ever, wish I had NFL Network.

They both completely ruin any suspense.

Warhammer

04-28-2011, 08:08 PM

I watched several games with Gabbert. He does not have it. There have been times watching Locker I thought he could have it.

JonInMiddleGA

04-28-2011, 08:09 PM

Did the Texans just draft Brock Lesnar?

rjolley

04-28-2011, 08:10 PM

Just turned on the draft...why did they show Watt acting like he got picked before he got picked? They can't stand to wait 30 seconds for it to be announced first?

Also, ton of picks given up by ATL. I like Green opposite White, but man, that's a lot.

Radii

04-28-2011, 08:12 PM

Also, ton of picks given up by ATL. I like Green opposite White, but man, that's a lot.

They took Julio Jones, Green was gone.

Thomkal

04-28-2011, 08:12 PM

They both completely ruin any suspense.

oh that sucks. that's why I moved over-that and not talking to any of the draftees past Cam Newton.

path12

04-28-2011, 08:13 PM

Really poor take home for Cleveland. They needed another 2nd in next year to match value.

Value chart aside, for a team with as many holes as the Browns have to add a bunch of upper round picks is worth it IMO.

rjolley

04-28-2011, 08:14 PM

They took Julio Jones, Green was gone.
That makes it even worse. :)

Scoobz0202

04-28-2011, 08:15 PM

Yea, I personally think the Browns hit the fucking jackpot. I'd be happy as a possum eating shit if I was a Brown's fan.

bulletsponge

04-28-2011, 08:17 PM

WTF?! minnesota wtf are you doing?

Thomkal

04-28-2011, 08:17 PM

holy cow now really no one will win the 10 million

JonInMiddleGA

04-28-2011, 08:17 PM

Okay, didn't see that one coming.

remper

04-28-2011, 08:18 PM

bahahaha! Ponder...

path12

04-28-2011, 08:18 PM

I think the Seahawks just got some extra motivation to resign Hasselbeck.

remper

04-28-2011, 08:18 PM

As a Bears fan can't say that I disapprove

mckerney

04-28-2011, 08:18 PM

Ugh, kinda feels like reaching for a QB here.

bulletsponge

04-28-2011, 08:20 PM

popnder better not suck, or that coach is fired.

rjolley

04-28-2011, 08:20 PM

As a Bears fan can't say that I disapprove
Exactly what I was thinking.

Now, watch he turns into Montana or Farve or something...

Speaking of the Bears, trade up for Amukamara?

bulletsponge

04-28-2011, 08:20 PM

now i know what Miami and Oakland fans feel like

bhlloy

04-28-2011, 08:21 PM

Year of the mediocre QB. It also makes me laugh that so many owners were going to sign off on taking a raw QB in the top 15 and then wanted to lock the players out so these QB's would have no time to actually learn the system.

rowech

04-28-2011, 08:22 PM

bahahaha! Ponder...

I will stand by this statement in five years. He will be the best QB of the draft.

remper

04-28-2011, 08:22 PM

WHAT!? Fairley to the Lions!!

bhlloy

04-28-2011, 08:22 PM

Great value for the Lions there. They must have been absolutely pissing themselves when Minnesota went ahead of them just to take Ponder.

bulletsponge

04-28-2011, 08:23 PM

I will stand by this statement in five years. He will be the best QB of the draft.

that isnt saying much. and i hope so

remper

04-28-2011, 08:24 PM

Exactly what I was thinking.

Now, watch he turns into Montana or Farve or something...

Speaking of the Bears, trade up for Amukamara?

Do the Bears really do things like... trade up for talent? What's that mean? I wouldn't trust them with a pick this high any way... lol

rjolley

04-28-2011, 08:25 PM

Do the Bears really do things like... trade up for talent? What's that mean? I wouldn't trust them with a pick this high any way... lol
I can't remember the last time they did...or I block the memory because it was for Salaam or somebody like that.

rowech

04-28-2011, 08:28 PM

Great value for the Lions there. They must have been absolutely pissing themselves when Minnesota went ahead of them just to take Ponder.

Yes...he and Suh together are going to creat some serious havoc.

Thomkal

04-28-2011, 08:28 PM

Galaxy

04-28-2011, 08:29 PM

Seriously, who sat around and decided:

"You know what will make for better television and our viewers will love?"

"Ruining the suspense!"

mckerney

04-28-2011, 08:29 PM

popnder better not suck, or that coach is fired.

Hoping Spielman isn't around much longer, Vikings drafts have been disappointing since he became GM.

Warhammer

04-28-2011, 08:29 PM

WHY?!?!?! Rams need offense, not D...

Easy Mac

04-28-2011, 08:30 PM

Is this draft just a joke by the owners with their draft strategy? Ponder and Locker in round 1?

Noop

04-28-2011, 08:30 PM

Ponder? That is a shocker and even though I am a Florida State fan I don't like the pick.

path12

04-28-2011, 08:30 PM

I'm guessing Seattle or somebody will be trading up to get Dalton now. I think these trades up to get QB prospects with a lot of questions is more of a reaction to how poor the overall QB talent is in the NFL now-and all the injuries they had last season than anything else.

I don't think Seattle will trade up, they're looking to get the third rounder they spent for Whitehurst back. Plus, lots of linemen (O and D) coming their way with this QB run.

JonInMiddleGA

04-28-2011, 08:33 PM

Is this draft just a joke by the owners with their draft strategy? Ponder and Locker in round 1?

I've been wondering whether most teams got mixed up & accidentally locked out their staff for several weeks leading up to the draft.

Warhammer

04-28-2011, 08:35 PM

Redskins get Mallet at 16?

Thomkal

04-28-2011, 08:36 PM

And in Miami Chad Henne and my man Tyler Thigpen breath a sigh of relief. :)

bronconick

04-28-2011, 08:37 PM

Ponder? That is a shocker and even though I am a Florida State fan I don't like the pick.

That pick's going to look even worse given that he'll probably be killed the first time Minnesota plays Detroit.

Noop

04-28-2011, 08:37 PM

The Dolphins made a decent pick. He will make our line solid in the middle but he is no where near as good as his brother.

Grade: -B/B

Noop

04-28-2011, 08:39 PM

Mel Kiper needs to stop sucking Andy Dalton's dick. He must owe Dalton's agent a favor or something because he keeps pimping this kid.

bronconick

04-28-2011, 08:40 PM

Is Dalton's agent the same as Clausen's last year?

Crapshoot

04-28-2011, 08:44 PM

Its fascinating - given the lockout, rookies at positions requiring a lot of learning (QB, OT, MLB) are probably at a severe disadvantage in terms of not being able to know the plays / packages - I wonder if in the short-term, that incentivizes atheletes types - be it an RB, a CB, or a pass-rusher type.

JAG

04-28-2011, 08:45 PM

The Redskins got an extra second round pick for their trade down with Jacksonville? Good trade for them (unfortunately).

Galaxy

04-28-2011, 08:50 PM

Great day for the Bills. Newton went No. 1 and Ponder went No. 12 (who I guess Chan Gailey really was interested in). Hopefully they can do something good with that No. 35 pick.

sovereignstar v2

04-28-2011, 08:50 PM

Yeah. So I just realized the draft was on tonight. lol

Thomkal

04-28-2011, 08:50 PM

nice to see the Redskins pass on character issues Mallet (for now at least) given all the trouble they had there last season (and now again with Haynesworth)

cartman

04-28-2011, 08:59 PM

dallas needs a tackle badly, their Oline has been a liability the last few years.

I think it was Norm Hitzges this weekend that said, when asked who the Cowboys should go for in the draft, "They need to get 1,000 pounds of beef in the first three rounds".

RedKingGold

04-28-2011, 09:01 PM

He's a f*cking Solder!

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/nkb9ufHuaEQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Lathum

04-28-2011, 09:04 PM

Thrilled about the Giants taking Prince

JonInMiddleGA

04-28-2011, 09:04 PM

Did someone try to gift wrap Prince's mom/relative?

MizzouRah

04-28-2011, 09:06 PM

WHY?!?!?! Rams need offense, not D...

They actually need a DT or CB.. I liked Prince at that pick since the two good receivers were gone.

Young Drachma

04-28-2011, 09:09 PM

I wish they'd pick "character issues" as the biggest overused sports cliche.

Matthean

04-28-2011, 09:10 PM

WHAT!? Fairley to the Lions!!

I get they love DL. I get they want to solidify it. I don't get passing on Prince.

Mustang

04-28-2011, 09:14 PM

I don't get passing on Prince.

You don't pass on Prince!

(I'm so punny)

Mustang

04-28-2011, 09:16 PM

Any number of players that I'd be happy for the Packers to take at 32. (DL/OL)

jbergey22

04-28-2011, 09:20 PM

Its really sad that so many teams have yet to figure out draft value.

Fuck you Vikings!

You could have had Ponder, Dalton, or Mallet in the 2nd found and gotten Fairly in the first.

Instead you get some weak armed career backup QB and let a division rival overtake you for best Interior DLine in the division.

Its safe to say the Vikings planned on getting Locker and were a fish out of water when it couldnt happen. Damn fools!

jbergey22

04-28-2011, 09:32 PM

I get they love DL. I get they want to solidify it. I don't get passing on Prince.

I think them two will just motivate each other. With that dline your defense has anchors for the next few years. He was the projected #1 pick just 3 months ago but apparently his work ethic scared teams off. With Suh on the team I dont think Fairley will have the option of getting lazy.

Lions will finish with a better record than the Vikings next year. Book it.

Galaxy

04-28-2011, 09:34 PM

They should let one of the guys announce the pick.

JonInMiddleGA

04-28-2011, 09:39 PM

Cool moment with the firefighter pick, probably the sidebar highlight of the night for me. (My dad was a volunteer for 20+ years, my brother-in-law is now a full-time pro, my niece is a volunteer & is working on her EMT certification as well).

jbergey22

04-28-2011, 09:44 PM

Ponder is a fool

I hate Ponder he is a fucking bum.

From the college football thread this past year. I guess I deserve this.

Atocep

04-28-2011, 09:45 PM

I get they love DL. I get they want to solidify it. I don't get passing on Prince.

Football Outsiders had Prince as one of the most overrated players in the draft. His numbers against the pass were embarrassingly bad.

bhlloy

04-28-2011, 09:49 PM

Seriously, ESPN must be on commission if Dalton gets picked in the first. Kiper just suggested him as a possible Saints pick (I think they have a QB already) and now Schefter mentioned him as one of the best players left on the board.

Noop

04-28-2011, 09:51 PM

From the college football thread this past year. I guess I deserve this.

I honestly was shocked by that pick. Ponder has not shown to be a winner (meaning come from behind victories) each time he had a chance to win the game he has failed. Ponder loves to check down even if there are options down field. Get use to being frustrated by a lack of a vertical game but you never know he might become a solid starter.

I doubt it.

Izulde

04-28-2011, 09:55 PM

I think the Dolphins got a solid pick with Pouncey. Was hoping we'd trade down, but shoring up our interior o-line works.

jbergey22

04-28-2011, 09:56 PM

I honestly was shocked by that pick. Ponder has not shown to be a winner (meaning come from behind victories) each time he had a chance to win the game he has failed. Ponder loves to check down even if there are options down field. Get use to being frustrated by a lack of a vertical game but you never know he might become a solid starter.

I doubt it.

Yeah I watched Florida State 3 times last year and in 2 of them Ponder blew it for them.

Once he fumbled the ball at the 1 going in for the winning score.

Another time he ran a boot late in the game and could have ran in the go ahead TD or hit the wide open rb for the go ahead score. He chose option C chuck it at the wide open RBs ankles.

Galaxy

04-28-2011, 09:58 PM

A new drinking game, every time Andy Dalton is mentioned, you take a shot. You'll likely be drunk within 2 picks though.

Izulde

04-28-2011, 10:00 PM

Did the Ravens just miss their pick?

bhlloy

04-28-2011, 10:00 PM

Jimmy Smith is insane value right here. There are some red flags but you are getting a top 10 talent at the end of the first. Sitting next to Rosenhaus probably doesn't help his stock too much mind.

Noop

04-28-2011, 10:02 PM

Jimmy Smith is insane value right here. There are some red flags but you are getting a top 10 talent at the end of the first. Sitting next to Rosenhaus probably doesn't help his stock too much mind.

Jimmy is pretty good. He seems like the type who would excel in New England.

Comey

04-28-2011, 10:03 PM

Did the Ravens just miss their pick?

They have AT&T.

jbergey22

04-28-2011, 10:04 PM

Ravens pulling out something from Minnesotas bag of tricks.

Thomkal

04-28-2011, 10:05 PM

wow this draft has been crazy

Atocep

04-28-2011, 10:05 PM

Chiefs must be convinced they can get Baldwin to run his routes instead of jog them.

SirFozzie

04-28-2011, 10:07 PM

Ravens were ready to make a deal with the Bears, then Chicago balked and clock ran out, causing Baltimore to miss its turn.

Comey

04-28-2011, 10:07 PM

I can't believe Baldwin went in the first. The roller coaster his stock has been on this season (he was, at one point, considered a 1a/1b/1c with AJ Green and Julio Jones...before Pitt realized they had no QB, and Baldwin realized they had no QB and stopped playing).

This has been insane.

bhlloy

04-28-2011, 10:07 PM

A new drinking game, every time Andy Dalton is mentioned, you take a shot. You'll likely be drunk within 2 picks though.

Assuming he lasts to the second, I might try this tomorrow night

SirFozzie

04-28-2011, 10:08 PM

Pats with their obligatory trade out of the first round. FUCK.

Comey

04-28-2011, 10:08 PM

Ravens were ready to make a deal with the Bears, then Chicago balked and clock ran out, causing Baltimore to miss its turn.

Gotta love that interconference screwjob.

Logan

04-28-2011, 10:08 PM

Is Jimmy Smith wearing an "OJ acquittal" shirt?

SirFozzie

04-28-2011, 10:11 PM

Pats get '11 second rounder (#59) and '12 first rounder for #28

I have to admit, still unhappy (I think Ingrahm would have done well), but at least it's a decent haul.

Crapshoot

04-28-2011, 10:11 PM

NO gave up a 2nd round pick and a 1 next year for the 28th pick this year? WTF?

Thomkal

04-28-2011, 10:11 PM

wow Baltimore has some explaining to do

mauchow

04-28-2011, 10:15 PM

hurry up and announce the fucking picks

SirFozzie

04-28-2011, 10:15 PM

There's going to be some epic finger pointing between the Bears and the Ravens

remper

04-28-2011, 10:16 PM

The Bears better either go offensive line or defensive tackle...

remper

04-28-2011, 10:17 PM

I would blame the Bears front office immediately without knowing any details hehe

DaddyTorgo

04-28-2011, 10:17 PM

Pats get '11 second rounder (#59) and '12 first rounder for #28

I have to admit, still unhappy (I think Ingrahm would have done well), but at least it's a decent haul.

Could get him at #33...

Atocep

04-28-2011, 10:17 PM

The Bears better either go offensive line or defensive tackle...

It had better be Carimi.

SirFozzie

04-28-2011, 10:17 PM

Could get him at #33...

He gone.

Noop

04-28-2011, 10:17 PM

I am happy for Ingram.

DaddyTorgo

04-28-2011, 10:18 PM

He gone.

Aaaah. I'm not bothering to watch. ;)

bhlloy

04-28-2011, 10:19 PM

Great pick for the Saints. He'll fit right in and I think he'll have a huge year under Payton.

Noop

04-28-2011, 10:19 PM

I hate the Patriot fans with a passion. I feel opposite about the way their front office goes about running their team.

mauchow

04-28-2011, 10:20 PM

It had better be Carimi.

:( not to the bears! was hoping he'd avoid the nfc north.

mckerney

04-28-2011, 10:20 PM

Galaxy

04-28-2011, 10:21 PM

It had better be Carimi.

Happy?

stevew

04-28-2011, 10:22 PM

I hate how the trades are impossible to find.

JAG

04-28-2011, 10:23 PM

I hate how the trades are impossible to find.

NFL.com news: Busy Browns execute two trades in first round (http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d81f8c45e/article/falcons-show-they-are-serious-about-reaching-super-bowl?module=HP_headlines2col)

remper

04-28-2011, 10:23 PM

Hurray, the Bears got it right. Let's keep Cutler around a few more seasons, and preferably upright...

Atocep

04-28-2011, 10:24 PM

Happy?

Yes, a good fit. Going into the draft I was worried Angelo would either decide to trade down and take another defensive lineman that wouldn't be on the team in 2 years or they'd take Sherrod. Sherrod could very well end up being a good football player, but he's a bad fit for the bears.

DaddyTorgo

04-28-2011, 10:24 PM

I hate the Patriot fans with a passion. I feel opposite about the way their front office goes about running their team.

Love you too Noop!

JAG

04-28-2011, 10:26 PM

I hate the Patriot fans with a passion. I feel opposite about the way their front office goes about running their team.

I'm the opposite, I wish Dallas' front office was as forward-thinking. Even if the Saints have a tremendous season, the Patriots will be picking in roughly the same spot in the first round next season as what they gave up, plus they got a 2nd round pick this season. They have some competition in the division with TB and Atlanta, it's not inconceivable the first round pick they get could be in the teens, not to mention potential disasters like Brees goes down with an injury.

Noop

04-28-2011, 10:29 PM

Love you too Noop!

My hate doesn't pertain to the guys who post on here, a few of you would get punched in the face when you're being obnoxious but otherwise yall cool.

JAG

04-28-2011, 10:33 PM

Or is that what you were arguing? It's late here...

DaddyTorgo

04-28-2011, 10:38 PM

My hate doesn't pertain to the guys who post on here, a few of you would get punched in the face when you're being obnoxious but otherwise yall cool.
:D

Swaggs

04-28-2011, 10:51 PM

I'm pretty happy with the Steelers' pick of Cameron Heyward. He's not a real sexy pick, but he fills a need and went around where he was projected.

Glad we didn't reach for a CB or OL here.

I'd love to see DT Jurrell Casey or Marvin Austin available at the end of round 2 for us.

ShaneTheMaster

04-28-2011, 10:54 PM

Great pick for the Saints. He'll fit right in and I think he'll have a huge year under Payton.

I was extatic before our first pick knowing we were picking between Jordan and Ingram.. now I am on cloud 9, since we got both. :)

stevew

04-28-2011, 11:02 PM

I also dislike how pick 33 has more value than a mid twenties(at least) pick. The team that owns it now can leverage the hell out of it.

StLee

04-28-2011, 11:05 PM

I'm happy with the Saints' picks. Jordan and Ingram were both considered to be Top 15 talent, and they both fit needs for the Saints: pass rush and inside running.

stevew

04-28-2011, 11:11 PM

undola-

Can't we assume the Pats will do better in a trade for pick 33 than they got for 28?

Anyways, the Saints are primed for a horrible season at some point. Wouldn't shock me if the Pats pick from them ends up in the top 15

JonInMiddleGA

04-28-2011, 11:39 PM

Tigercat

04-28-2011, 11:49 PM

undola-

Can't we assume the Pats will do better in a trade for pick 33 than they got for 28?

Anyways, the Saints are primed for a horrible season at some point.

The year after what should have been the biggest super bowl hangover ever, resulted in a year where the Saints came very close to a first round bye and the #1 overall seed. Comparing that to other recent Super Bowl winners, that is pretty damn good.

If those conditions didn't have the Saints slip up badly, hard to imagine it happening in the near future. (Barring perhaps a long Brees injury or Gregg Williams leaving and the D reverting back to the suck.)

I don't know why anyone would bet against a Payton offense or a Williams defense, much less the two together.

M GO BLUE!!!

04-28-2011, 11:49 PM

On the bright side, maybe Ponder will win the starting job and lead the Vikings to a season that will let them draft Andrew Luck next year. :/

With the first pick in the 2012 National Football League Draft, the Carolina Panthers select QB Andrew Luck, Stanford.

(Unless Luck looks at the Panthers there again & decides to return to school!)

M GO BLUE!!!

04-28-2011, 11:58 PM

Ok Lions fans... I know we are in agreement that Fairley has us grinning. Who in the 2nd? Davon House?

ShaneTheMaster

04-29-2011, 12:05 AM

NFL Network reporting that Reggie Bush tweeted "It's been fun New Orleans".

I guess we found someone who didn't like the Ingram pick.

edit to add: Now the speculation on the interwebz surrounds whether he meant the Saints or if he meant the Lakers elimination of the Hornets

Hell no.. he didn't mean the Hornets. He was tweeting about the draft right before then.. the Hornets tweets were from a few days ago. He is pissed because he knows he is the 4th best RB on the team now.

BYU 14

04-29-2011, 12:06 AM

Ok Lions fans... I know we are in agreement that Fairley has us grinning. Who in the 2nd? Davon House?

He and Suh will be nasty inside......We now know where teams won't run against Detroit.....That really was a nice pick.

fantom1979

04-29-2011, 12:09 AM

I would consider a WR for the Lions in either the 2nd or 3rd. Would be nice to have another weapon for Stafford and relieve some pressure off of Calvin. Maybe Torrey Smith?

BYU 14

04-29-2011, 12:10 AM

I honestly was shocked by that pick. Ponder has not shown to be a winner (meaning come from behind victories) each time he had a chance to win the game he has failed. Ponder loves to check down even if there are options down field. Get use to being frustrated by a lack of a vertical game but you never know he might become a solid starter.

I doubt it.

This pick just makes me sick as a Vikings fan......I would take Dalton any day over him, may not be the specimen Ponder is, but he is athletic, smart and wins big games. I almost want Favre to unretire again now!

PackerFanatic

04-29-2011, 12:11 AM

Suh and Fairley is a scary prospect to have to face twice a year. If only they had someone on the other side to keep Stafford upright...

I am pretty pleased with the Packers pick. Got a guy that could potentially team up with Bulaga and be the new Clifton/Tauscher combo we have been accustomed to for the last 10 years. Protect QB1 is priority one :)

Senator

04-29-2011, 12:13 AM

I started laughing when I saw the Minn pick imagining Favre going, "Hmmmmmm, I think they might need me again.."

Also, living in TCU country and watching Dalton all this time, not really sure if he is NFL caliber. Smart kid, but he had a helluva surrounding cast.

M GO BLUE!!!

04-29-2011, 12:16 AM

He and Suh will be nasty inside......We now know where teams won't run against Detroit.....That really was a nice pick.

Suh and Fairley is a scary prospect to have to face twice a year. If only they had someone on the other side to keep Stafford upright...

I am pretty pleased with the Packers pick. Got a guy that could potentially team up with Bulaga and be the new Clifton/Tauscher combo we have been accustomed to for the last 10 years. Protect QB1 is priority one :)

I did notice that both division teams that drafted after Detroit took offensive linemen. Perhaps they would have anyway, but it does seem line getting the best blocking possible just became more of a concern in a certain division.