The 2011 NBA Offseason---Stern says no

[stevew]

Draft is on the 23rd.

Lockout on the 30th?

[Groundhog]

Welp, looking forward to using the Cavs in NBA 2K12 anyway!

[stevew]

Seems to be a pretty big consensus on the lockout being nasty.

[bulletsponge]

they want to roll back salaries already on the books. you can bet your ass it will get nasty

[DaddyTorgo]

The players also claim that they're much better prepared than NFL players and have been saving up for this for a couple years now.

[LloydLungs]

I really can't see any scenario where NO games are missed. I think it's somewhere between a 60-game season and no season, with no season being a realistic long shot.

[Groundhog]

The players also claim that they're much better prepared than NFL players and have been saving up for this for a couple years now.

Somehow I doubt that, given what I've read about NBA players and their money.

[DaddyTorgo]

Somehow I doubt that, given what I've read about NBA players and their money.

hence why i said claim ;)

[MrBug708]

I guess Dwight Howard becoming a Laker will have to wait for a bit...

[Groundhog]

I guess Dwight Howard becoming a Laker will have to wait for a bit...

Until he ring-chases in 2018? ;)

[Hoya1]

The shitty thing in all of this is the loss of perspective of what they accomplished this year. Ratings are up, people are watching, the product is great. All of that goes out the window when games are missed due to a dispute.

[DeToxRox]

The Dwight Howard sweepstakes have begun. Golden State offered Monta Ellis, Andris Biedrins and Ekpe Udoh. Unlikely that'll get it done.


-draft express

[Noop]

Bosh for Dwight.

:)

[MrBug708]

Minnesota has apparently offered Love and the #2 for...Gasol.

[Noop]

Minnesota has apparently offered Love and the #2 for...Gasol.

What??? They are trying to get an all Spanish team or something? If I am the Lakers I might take that trade in a heart beat.

[whomario]

I call Bullshit. I think it´s only logical that teams call the Lakers about Gasol in hopes of getting a bargain because their management has lost trust in Gasol, but no way do they offer the one player that gives their franchise some identity.

A quick google search doesn´t bring up any results even claiming they heard that, all there is is Chad Ford claiming the Wolves have interest in Gasol (based largely on Rubio coming over from what i understand, sure ...) with a couple blogs speculating around that rumour.

If Gasol wasn´t so relatively old and the Wolves that far from being competitive i´d actually call that even. Love isn´t as good as his stats, Gasol not as bad as this one bad playoff run.

[stevew]

Am I wrong to want Williams over Irving? I can't renember the last time a ball dominant point guard won anything. Williams has sweet range and I think he will have a good chance at being a 20ppg + scorer.

[RainMaker]

Am I wrong to want Williams over Irving? I can't renember the last time a ball dominant point guard won anything. Williams has sweet range and I think he will have a good chance at being a 20ppg + scorer.
I don't know. I think Kyrie is a safer bet and a PG is almost a must in today's game. My concern with Williams is the same with Beasley. He's undersized for the 4 which is where he'd be best at.

I'd still love to see them find a way to get that #2 pick from Minnesota and draft both.

[Hammer755]

I don't see any way that the NBA fails to lose a good chunk of the year. In the NFL, both sides are trying to get a bigger part of the profits. The NBA, on the other hand, is in real financial trouble, and (if you believe the owners, that is) they can't survive without huge concessions.

[Groundhog]

Am I wrong to want Williams over Irving? I can't renember the last time a ball dominant point guard won anything. Williams has sweet range and I think he will have a good chance at being a 20ppg + scorer.

Like RM says, my biggest concern with Williams is his tweener status. I don't think he has PF size yet I don't think he's a SF either. From DraftExpress.com:

"Williams amazingly enough only took 5 pull-up jumpers all season, representing just 1% of his total offense."

Reading the rest of his write up (http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Situational-Statistics-the-2011-Forward-Crop-3762/) there's a lot to like about his game in college, but the fact is that he scored the vast majority of his points at the basket where as he'll be forced to step away from the basket in the NBA, which will also effect how often he gets to the line, which was a major part of his game in college (fouled on 33% of his possessions).

Of course very few guys succeed in the NBA without evolving their games considerably and Williams is obviously very talented, but when you read Irving's impressive college situational stats (http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Situational-Statistics-the-2011-Guard-Crop-3759/) - although being over 12 games - and consider that he'll be able to carry far more of his college style of play over to the pros than Williams did, it makes a pretty good case for Irving at #1 IMO.

At the end of the day though, I'd much prefer to be drafting top 2 than 3-5. I think this draft is a real crapshoot after Williams and Irving.

[Neon_Chaos]

:(

Teenage daughter of Robert Horry dies after lifelong illness - Ball Don't Lie - NBA*Blog - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Teenage-daughter-of-Robert-Horry-dies-after-life?urn=nba-wp5053)

[mckerney]

Am I wrong to want Williams over Irving? I can't renember the last time a ball dominant point guard won anything. Williams has sweet range and I think he will have a good chance at being a 20ppg + scorer.

ESPN has a story saying the Cavs have decided to go with Irving. A bit disappointing, I was still hoping that Irving would fall to 2, though wasn't really expecting it.

[Groundhog]

Interestingly enough from an Aussie's perspective, Irving was born in Australia - his dad played basketball over here for a few years - and has dual citizenship. He said yesterday that he would like to play for Australia, which sort of makes sense because even though he only lived here for 2 years, it's not like he's going to have to beat out the likes of Rose and CP3 to get minutes on our national squad. ;)

He has played for USA basketball in the past however, so not sure how that may complicate things, but just gives me another reason to root for him as a Cav!

[stevew]

Yay! We are drafting a guy who will eventually be the 8th best PG in our conference. One who will never sniff an all star game.

[Groundhog]

Yay! We are drafting a guy who will eventually be the 8th best PG in our conference. One who will never sniff an all star game.

I don't know about that, he has the tools to be as good as any of the PGs I reckon.

To be honest I'm more concerned with what we do at #4 than at #1.

[DaddyTorgo]

Ugh - WTF am I going to do if Reggie Jackson (BC) goes to the Heat @ 31?? Fuck me. I need to root for him but not Lebron. WTF.

[stevew]

I doubt the Heat take an American player at 31. Best thing from that spot is to take a stashable Euro IMO.

[DaddyTorgo]

I doubt the Heat take an American player at 31. Best thing from that spot is to take a stashable Euro IMO.

I dunno - I've heard the rumor multiple times over and he's apparently been given a guarantee by someone because he's stopped working out and everything...

[stevew]

Well, if he's like most BC players you won't have to root against him in the NBA for more than a couple years

[DaddyTorgo]

Well, if he's like most BC players you won't have to root against him in the NBA for more than a couple years

:eek:

That's not exactly true. Craig Smith has carved out a decent career as a back-of-bench player (not surprising given his size and athleticism). Jared Dudley is lighting shit up for the Suns.

And umm...yeah...that's all I got at the moment.

[stevew]

Forgot about Dudley. I'm pretty sure any team would love to have him as their 7th man and pay him 4.5m/year for the next half decade. He's a really good player.

[whomario]

I dunno - I've heard the rumor multiple times over and he's apparently been given a guarantee by someone because he's stopped working out and everything...

Why would someone stop working out for a guarantee for the first spot without a guaranteed contract ? :confused: A Euro might if he´s set on staying in Europe (and then in a few years could negotiate his own terms while at 30 he´d be confined to rookie salary), but an american ? No way.

regarding "irving 8th best PG in a conference" : Possible, but who´s to say that Williams will be a star ? From what i have seen there are some real question marks with him, the way he scored in College won´t easily translate (he made a living taking slow footed big guys off the drible and then finishing over less than impressive help) and i have some doubts he´ll be able to create shots for himself against NBA PFs while at SF he´s really more of a spot up shooter.

Let´s just say that i´d not hang up if anyone offered me something good for the 1st pick in this draft.

[Icy]

I'm really excited about Ricky Rubio in the NBA this year, would hate a long lockup.

Rubio had a bad season in Spain (despite winning the title, but as backup), with a huge loss of self confidence in a very rigid scheme where he couldn't use his "magic".

I hope that the more open and faster NBA game will fit him well. I'm sure he is going to be in a lot highlights and recaps next season, but hope he can also contribute to the Wolves and not only with random flashy plays.

[Groundhog]

I actually wonder if, given that the T'Wolves really don't need a player like Williams so much, the Cavs might be able to draft Kanter, who fills a need for them, and send him to Minnesota for Williams and some bad contracts? The Cavs have a 14mil trade exception to use.

[albionmoonlight]

There's a guy in my office who is a huge college b-ball fan and an even bigger Duke fan. He's the kind of guy who will get excited about seeing Duke play some warm-up game against East Podunk State because he's really excited to see "this kid that East Podunk has who is just deadly from 3." He also knows more about Duke's 10th man than I know about some of the starters from teams I follow. Point is, this guy has absorbed a TON of Duke basketball over the years. Also, like a lot of college fans, he's a big believer that most kids leave for the NBA too early and almost all of them would benefit from more time in college.

All of which is lead-in to this: I was talking to him the other day and saying that I figure that he would have wanted Irving to come back because he played so little last year with the injury. And he said that, in the years he's been watching, he can't remember seeing another player in person who was so far above the other players in terms of athletic ability and basketball instincts. He acknowledged that Irving would have a learning curve, but that he thought that the NBA was a no-brainer move because another year in college would have been "like a varsity kid spending a year playing in the JV league."

So, based on that, I'd have to say that Irving seems like he might end up joining (instead of being in the tier below) the elite young PG class in the NBA.

[DaddyTorgo]

Why would someone stop working out for a guarantee for the first spot without a guaranteed contract ? :confused: A Euro might if he´s set on staying in Europe (and then in a few years could negotiate his own terms while at 30 he´d be confined to rookie salary), but an american ? No way.

regarding "irving 8th best PG in a conference" : Possible, but who´s to say that Williams will be a star ? From what i have seen there are some real question marks with him, the way he scored in College won´t easily translate (he made a living taking slow footed big guys off the drible and then finishing over less than impressive help) and i have some doubts he´ll be able to create shots for himself against NBA PFs while at SF he´s really more of a spot up shooter.

Let´s just say that i´d not hang up if anyone offered me something good for the 1st pick in this draft.

Very good point. I hadn't really considered that I guess...was too busy panicking. Thanks for talking me down off the proverbial ledge.

My bad - looks like I misread the rumor anyways. Chad Ford was saying he wouldn't slip past the Heat @ 31, but there's a team further up in the first round that's made him a promise.

Ford writes: "I don't know who has promised him. Three rumored teams -- the Blazers, Boston Celtics and New Jersey Nets -- all say they haven't. The Blazers and Celtics don't make sense anyway. Both drafted similar players (Elliot Williams and Avery Bradley) last year with their first-round picks.
Ford believes the Heat will take Jackson at No. 31, if he's available after the first round.
"Bottom line. He's got a promise. It's not Celtics, Nets or Blazers. It's Heat at 31. But it doesn't stop a team from drafting him higher."

[mckerney]

I actually wonder if, given that the T'Wolves really don't need a player like Williams so much, the Cavs might be able to draft Kanter, who fills a need for them, and send him to Minnesota for Williams and some bad contracts? The Cavs have a 14mil trade exception to use.

I really hope the Wolves don't do this, though I also have no confidence in Kahn making a good decision. With the Wolves roster they need to get the best talent wherever on the floor they can get it. With Kevin Love being the best and only decent player they have it would be ideal if they could get a PG, SG, SF or C, but after winning 32 games over the last two years and next season not looking much better, plus no lottery pick next year, I think they just need to take the best player available.

Also, if the Wolves do trade down they have to more than getting rid of bad contracts they're pretty far under the cap and I don't think they have any contracts they really need to get rid of.

[bhlloy]

If the Wolves take Williams then your 4 or 5 best players are all PF. I understand the concept of taking the best player available and generally agree with it but in this case, it just doesn't make sense.

[mckerney]

If the Wolves take Williams then your 4 or 5 best players are all PF. I understand the concept of taking the best player available and generally agree with it but in this case, it just doesn't make sense.

Only two of those guys are worth keeping though. The Wolves look like they're about 3 or 4 years away from competing, may as well not worry about the current make up of the roster.

[bhlloy]

I guess. You have to get value for those pieces that are worth something though, and if teams know you have to get rid of a couple you're going to get jack.

It's just horrible roster mismanagement that has got them to this point, where they are stacked with players at a couple of positions and have absolutely nothing at the rest. Maybe Kahn was building a roster for the next NBA Jam release?

[whomario]

Kanter imo is going to be really, really good and it won´t be as long as people might think due to him sitting out the year.
Some may doubt if he´s going to be able to do it against much stronger/more physical competition but he doesn´t really rely on his strengths to score, it´s just a nice bonus. Has some of the same qualities that Scola has (running the floor, cutting to the basket at the right moment, great footwork and a pretty substantial set of post moves for a young pivot player) but is more equiped physichally to make use of his back to the basket skills.


The european player i am rooting for the most is Jan Vesely though, the guy is just fun to watch and has such a unique skill set. Truly great athleticism and agility for being essentially a 7 footer (6´11 bare foot), he could actually guard SFs on a nightly basis (guarded 2 guards frequently in Europe). Has nice defensive instincts and is very disruptive there with his length and quickness.
Plus a great deal of energy and enthusiasm (sometimes too much), think Tyler Hansbrough only 2 inches taller and way more athletic. And on the other end he hurts the rim (one of my early sleeper picks to being in the dunk contest), very fun to watch.
His offense needs work, but he´s going to be productive there by running the floor, cutting to the basket and hopefully gets to play with a PG that can run the pick and roll with him.

Ultimately he´ll need to either add a bit of strengths to play the 4 or improve his jump shot to play the 3, but until then he´ll likely be still fun to watch and hopefully gets a coach willing to find ways to use his defensive abilities on the perimeter.

nice video showing some of his defensive qualities that don´t show up on the box score (and a few of his weaknesses) and starts of with a play that is pretty much insane :

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-QZxGrVco3o" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="349" width="425"></iframe>

some more highlights :

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/bHSm6Epbj58" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="349" width="560"></iframe>

[mckerney]

I guess. You have to get value for those pieces that are worth something though, and if teams know you have to get rid of a couple you're going to get jack.

It's just horrible roster mismanagement that has got them to this point, where they are stacked with players at a couple of positions and have absolutely nothing at the rest. Maybe Kahn was building a roster for the next NBA Jam release?

I'll definitely agree on horrible roster management. I'd be great if they could get a player who fits the team better, but with this being a week draft, blowing the last two drafts and not having their first round pick next year I think they need to just get the most talented player they can.

[Groundhog]

Do the Pistons dae draft another Serbian player...

*edit: whoops, he plays in Serbia, but isn't Serbian.

[Groundhog]

A quick uneducated mock draft:

1. Cleveland: Kyrie Irving
2. Minnesota: Derrick Williams
3. Utah: Brandon Knight
4. Cleveland: Enes Kanter
5. Toronto: Kemba Walker
6. Wizards: Marcus Morris
7. Sacramento: Jan Vesely
8. Detroit: Kawhi Leonard
9. Charlotte: Klay Thompson
10. Milwaukee: Bismack Biyombo
11. Golden State: Chris Singleton
12. Utah: Jonas Valanciunas
13. Phoenix: Jimmer Fredette
14. Houston: Markieff Morris

[stevew]

Valanciunas almost has to go in the top 10 or in the 2nd round. Or it could be years until his buyout/earning potential of the NBA scale make sense. I ultimately think the Cavs will take and stash him by buying a first rounder. Diop from the Bobcats would be a contract I could see taking

[Neon_Chaos]

I'd love for the Cavs to pick Williams at 1, and just completely screw with Minny.

[JPhillips]

A quick uneducated mock draft:

1. Cleveland: Kyrie Irving
2. Minnesota: Derrick Williams
3. Utah: Brandon Knight
4. Cleveland: Enes Kanter
5. Toronto: Kemba Walker
6. Wizards: Marcus Morris
7. Sacramento: Jan Vesely
8. Detroit: Kawhi Leonard
9. Charlotte: Klay Thompson
10. Milwaukee: Bismack Biyombo
11. Golden State: Chris Singleton
12. Utah: Jonas Valanciunas
13. Phoenix: Jimmer Fredette
14. Houston: Markieff Morris

Sounds like Biyombo is falling fast after his Italian workout.

[mckerney]

I'd love for the Cavs to pick Williams at 1, and just completely screw with Minny.

I'd love it if Minnesota could get Kyrie Irving.

[Groundhog]

I'd love it if Minnesota could get Kyrie Irving.

That would put them in an interesting situation, with 3 recent lottery pick PGs on the roster.

Apparently Kanter at #2 is a possibility, that would give Utah a Jefferson-Millsap-Williams frontcourt.

[mckerney]

Minnesota fired Kurt Rambis. A shitty thing to do to place the blame on him while Kahn gets to keep his job.

[stevew]

Kahn!

[Swaggs]

Sounds like the Jazz are giving Kanter some consideration at #3, as well. They could just be trying to drive up trade value, but I think they'd be smarter to go with the talented big man, in Kanter, and then hope that Jimmer (even though I don't think he'll be able to play enough D to be an NBA starter) or Kemba at #12.

It just seems like a star player from BYU should play for the Jazz.

[MikeVic]

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wAxdgZMk1D4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[mckerney]

Mark Cuban Files MOST BADASS Legal Doc EVER | TMZ.com (http://www.tmz.com/2011/06/22/mark-cuban-ross-perot-dallas-mavericks-lawsuit-photo-championship-legal-fight-owner-texas-dirk-nowitzki/)

[whomario]

I liked Rambis from how he handles himself and he definitely knows the game, but it was the right thing to do. Anyone who saw the games last year saw that the style he wanted to play fit nearly no player on the roster and he made no adjustments what so ever. Maybe the players assembled aren´t ideal, but you can´t go with a coach where you need to either hope for change in or replace every single player of note, can you ? :confused:

IMO the roster doesn´t look all that bad from a talent standpoint actually. Of course that´s assuming Rubio pans out and they don´t crap the bed in this draft + Free Agency.


as for the draft : There´s no way Valanciunas should go before Kanter, none.

Vesely seems a lock at 6 for the Wizards, i suppose there´s worse places for him.


Sounds like Biyombo is falling fast after his Italian workout.

and quickly rose again after 3 solid to great workouts in the US. Not the type of guy you can judge from workouts anyway, from what i´ve seen he is very raw but very impressive. There´s no denying that he was a defensive force in the ACB and that´s not something you should discount.
I really like the prospect of a Monroe/Biyombo frontcourt for the Pistons down the road.

@ swaggs : I think there´s a decent chance that Walker is available at 12 but wouldn´t bet on it. The Jazz problem is that all top PGs and big guys are projected to go before the 12th pick and it dries up considerably after that and since they want both positions with their picks they´ll have to just hope for someone to fall.

Hope the Rockets are able to trade one of their picks for a solid veteran.

[bhlloy]

IMO the roster doesn´t look all that bad from a talent standpoint actually. Of course that´s assuming Rubio pans out and they don´t crap the bed in this draft + Free Agency.


If you like teams that go four deep at a couple of positions and have nothing at the other three, I guess? A competent GM would be able to make a half decent team out of these pieces I'd agree, but we'll see what happens. I have no faith in Kahn making anything close to a couple of consistent competent decisions.

[Neon_Chaos]

Seriously, the Cavs should go get Williams to screw with the Wolves.

This will either force the TWolves to go Irving (the most hilarious scenario, drafting ANOTHER PG while having Rubio and Flynn stashed in the roster) or Kanter.

If the Wolves get Irving, the Jazz will get Knight, and the Cavs can pick up Kanter at 4.

If the Wolves get Kanter, the Jazz will probably go for Irving, and the Cavs can pick up Knight at 4.

[albionmoonlight]

Reading through some mock drafts and draft analysis, I have come up with an impossible task for any NBA draft analyst/reporter:

Compare Jimmer Fredette to an NBA player who isn't white.

[MikeVic]

Reading through some mock drafts and draft analysis, I have come up with an impossible task for any NBA draft analyst/reporter:

Compare Jimmer Fredette to an NBA player who isn't white.

Trajan Langdon.

[stevew]

Boobie Gibson

[MrBug708]

Reading through some mock drafts and draft analysis, I have come up with an impossible task for any NBA draft analyst/reporter:

Compare Jimmer Fredette to an NBA player who isn't white.

Curry

[mckerney]

I liked Rambis from how he handles himself and he definitely knows the game, but it was the right thing to do. Anyone who saw the games last year saw that the style he wanted to play fit nearly no player on the roster and he made no adjustments what so ever. Maybe the players assembled aren´t ideal, but you can´t go with a coach where you need to either hope for change in or replace every single player of note, can you ? :confused:

It doesn't look like Rambis was the right guy, but Kahn is the one who is mostly responsible for the last two years and the bleak outlook going forward to this team. It's a bullshit move because Rambis shouldn't have been the guy scapegoated, especially when he was Kahn's hand picked guy. If Rambis needs to go then so does Kahn.

[mckerney]

Seriously, the Cavs should go get Williams to screw with the Wolves.

This will either force the TWolves to go Irving (the most hilarious scenario, drafting ANOTHER PG while having Rubio and Flynn stashed in the roster) or Kanter.

If the Wolves get Irving, the Jazz will get Knight, and the Cavs can pick up Kanter at 4.

If the Wolves get Kanter, the Jazz will probably go for Irving, and the Cavs can pick up Knight at 4.

The problem is Jonny Flynn has been a bust so far, and the other PG they have is Rubio. Just because they have young bodies there doesn't justify passing on a talent like Irving. It's akin to saying the Wolves shouldn't take Kanter because they have Darko and Pekovic.

[korme]

Reading through some mock drafts and draft analysis, I have come up with an impossible task for any NBA draft analyst/reporter:

Compare Jimmer Fredette to an NBA player who isn't white.

I think Henry Abbott or Russillo or Chad Ford compared him to Steph Curry. Makes sense, can shoot the gym, not a true PG in the sense, questionable D. Doesn't mean he'll be as successful as Curry, but the comparables are there.

[Neon_Chaos]

The problem is Jonny Flynn has been a bust so far, and the other PG they have is Rubio. Just because they have young bodies there doesn't justify passing on a talent like Irving. It's akin to saying the Wolves shouldn't take Kanter because they have Darko and Pekovic.

KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!

Of course, you have a point.

I know of a northwestern team who didn't draft a certain shooting guard at #2 because they already had a shooting guard. :)

[Atocep]

Basketball Prospectus' player projection system has Jimmer's top 2 comps as JJ Redick and Jodie Meeks. Both are playing a role similar to how I picture Jimmer being used. Curry, IMO, is a lazy comp. He was already showing development as a PG at Davidson while Jimmer hasn't shown anything that would lead you to believe he can play the point at all in the NBA.

[korme]

Source confirms multiple reports: MIL gets B. Udrih, S. Jackson, and 19th pick. Charlotte gets 7th and C. Maggette. Sacto get 10th and J. Salmons
Read more: HoopsHype - NBA Media Twitters (http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html#ixzz1Q8QFGemp)

[korme]

This is a big *shrug* for me. I know Milwaukee considers itself a playoff team/contender, so i wonder if they think Jackson is an upgrade over Salmons/Maggette (offensively inefficient offensive players), or if it's a salary dump at all (haven't looked at any salaries, assuming they're all around the same)

[korme]

Also, Corey Maggette gets his dream, depending on who they take at 7, he replaces old Steve Jackson as Charlotte's primary scorer. He's gonna shoot the ball 25 times a night.

[whomario]

It doesn't look like Rambis was the right guy, but Kahn is the one who is mostly responsible for the last two years and the bleak outlook going forward to this team. It's a bullshit move because Rambis shouldn't have been the guy scapegoated, especially when he was Kahn's hand picked guy. If Rambis needs to go then so does Kahn.

i don´t even disagree with you (not anymore at least when it comes to Kahn), it´s just that i think Rambis wasn´t a good fit anymore no matter what.

as for Fredette-Curry : That´s an obvious one considering their college careers and style in which they play, but i see a few key differences. Fredette is moving a lot different than Curry (and has a different constitution) and relies on strength more when going to the basket (which might be a problem in the NBA) and is not half the passer that Curry is and yes, that´s judging the college versions. Curry showed great passing skills in college even if the numbers weren´t eye popping for reasons to do with his role, Fredette hasn´t.
I don´t think anyone can judge his defense due to him basically not being asked to play any, but he likely won´t be better than slightly below average (Curry has been pretty atrocious in the NBA ...)

personally i actually think he could be a Chauncey Billups type player who shoots the ball well from deep, gets to the line at a good clip (despite not being a great threat to finish inside) and gets by with "only" decent passing skills for a starting PG. I´m not sure he can channel his need to chuck the ball enough or develop the intagibles to play a similar role but i just see a lot of similarities here.
It´s obviously a best case scenario, but what fun is it to only look for the floor ;)

incidentily it could very well be that they get traded for each other tonight, Knicks want to move up and offer Billups and Fields and the Kings reportedly are telling teams they have an agreement to trade the 7th pick. (and could use both a veteran presence and an actually decent 2/3 who play defense and hustles)

EDIT : OK, might have figured wrong ...

[stevew]

Jimmer Fredette is the next Dell Curry?

[whomario]

This is a big *shrug* for me. I know Milwaukee considers itself a playoff team/contender, so i wonder if they think Jackson is an upgrade over Salmons/Maggette (offensively inefficient offensive players), or if it's a salary dump at all (haven't looked at any salaries, assuming they're all around the same)

yeah, salary isn´t much of a factor here, amount and length comes out about even.
Jackson seems like a good fit for Milwaukee as does Udrih because both can take pressure of Jennigs. Still won´t have anyone who actually finishes shots in the paint but spacing should be better.

I just read Charlotte keeps the 9th pick but sends Shaun Livingston instead. That´s weird, since now Milwaukee takes on a point forward and 2 PGs when their 2nd best player is Jennings.
Charlotte now picking 7th and 9th. Maybe moved up to get "their" pick + Biyombo whome they were reportedly very impressed with in a late workout.

is there any website/radio link for any sort of reports on the draft right now that i could listen to ?

[korme]

i listened to the nba today podcat recorded earlier today but it had some good info in there, saying kanter is almost a lock to go #2 now.

ESPN Radio (http://t.co/ZiSIMwA)

[korme]

Sactown and Spurs discussing flipping Salmons + #10 for Tony Parker

[Arles]

Wow, Parker and Evans in the back court? Not sure that works well, but who knows. Salmons and 10 for Parker seems like nice value though.

[whomario]

this draft coverage on NBA TV is highly hilarious. "Does he project as a starting or franchise type of PG or more of a 6th man ?", talking about Norris Cole who they just called a "early 2nd round prospect"
Also, "Alec Burks, i don´t like him if he goes in the first 7 or 8 picks" when no one has him much higher than 20 ...

[Groundhog]

Alec Burks strikes me as one guy who is probably underrated this draft.

[korme]

Yeah the draft coverage by the TV guys on both ESPN and NBATV has been underwhelming...

[mckerney]

Alright, now plz keep him.

[bronconick]

Is there normally a smattering of boos for Stern or are basketball fans catching up to hockey fans in their disdain of a commissioner?

[korme]

I think Williams is an awful fit for Minny. He is Michael Beasley, less talented, less crazy. Great now you have two undersized power forwards. Especially with DWill insisting he wants to play 3, every summer he's gonna work on his outside game when he should be developing post moves and using his quickness inside.

Also, Thompson is a surprise pick for me, but maybe the Cavs know something I don't. Hollinger has him #3 in his draft evaluator algorithm.

[korme]

wow Toronto

[Groundhog]

Toronto just hates American players!

Didn't expect that from them however. I am sold on Valanciunas however, as I've read a fair bit about him given that I figured the Cavs were a decent chance to pick him, but I thought the Raptors would've gone with instant help.

Not sure how I feel about Tristan Thompson at #4. I'd heard more than one person say he was undervalued heading into the draft though.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Brandon Knight to the Pistons is nice.

[Zinto]

Brandon Knight to the Pistons is nice.


I am really glad they did not pick Kemba. I am just hopeful he is a little happier to come to Detroit then how he looked after getting drafted.

[mckerney]

They need to change the rules on trading picks in the new CBA. No more talking about how excited you are to be playing for Sacramento while wearing a Bucks hat.

[Groundhog]

Charlotte was probably the perfect place for Kemba to go, given their scoring woes.

[jbergey22]

Great pick by the wolves. I believe Williams will be the star of this draft.

I thought Kahn might completely blow this when I heard rumors of trading the #2 to Phoenix or LA. Hopefully now they can find a taker for Love.

[Groundhog]

I think the Jazz have done well.

[jbergey22]

I wonder if the Cavs passing on the foreign guy to take Thompson has anything to do with Gilbert's lack of patience after some of his ridiculous Twitter rants about LBJ?

[jbergey22]

I think the Jazz have done well.

I agree.

That center looks like an impressive player. I probably would have taken him #2 behind Williams. I know PG's have suddenly become more important in the eyes of NBA GM's but I dont see the huge gap between Irving, Knight and Walker that perhaps many do.

[Groundhog]

I wonder if the Cavs passing on the foreign guy to take Thompson has anything to do with Gilbert's lack of patience after some of his ridiculous Twitter rants about LBJ?

Thing is, if you are going to pick a guy who can't come over for a season, this is the year to do it given that it will likely be a shortened season...

[stevew]

Leonard slipping to 15 is a joke. Glue guy who probably be a rotational player for 10 years. No way he should go behind the dumb twins.

[korme]

Pacers trade newly drafted F Kawhi Leonard to Spurs for G George Hill. Guess they're not dumping Parker

[korme]

johnhollinger (http://twitter.com/#%21/johnhollinger) John Hollinger



Math test: What's better, converting 7th pick into John Salmons, or 15th pick into George Hill?

[Groundhog]

Pacers trade newly drafted F Kawhi Leonard to Spurs for G George Hill. Guess they're not dumping Parker

I'm not sold on Leonard after reading through the DraftExpress analysis on his college performance, but I have to admit, he definitely sounds like the kind of guy that would blossom in the Spurs system.

[Groundhog]

johnhollinger (http://twitter.com/#%21/johnhollinger) John Hollinger



Math test: What's better, converting 7th pick into John Salmons, or 15th pick into George Hill?

:D Very true.

[DaddyTorgo]

Iman Shumpert hmm? Interesting Knicks.

[Groundhog]

Iman Shumpert hmm? Interesting Knicks.

Maybe it's just his size and alma mater, but Shumpert has me thinking Javaris Crittenton. I guess there were no bigs left that the Knicks were interested in.

[DaddyTorgo]

Rachel Nichols can be on my TV anytime...

[Groundhog]

Singleton at #18 is good value for Washington. I thought he'd go to Golden State.

[Groundhog]

Wall-?-Singleton-Vesley-McGee would have to be one of the most athletic lineups around. Of course, they should also get outrebounded by about 20 every game.

[korme]

Carmelo Anthony just tweeted: "Goodnight. I'm out."

I feel like he's not thrilled about Iman Shumpert.

[DaddyTorgo]

Carmelo Anthony just tweeted: "Goodnight. I'm out."

I feel like he's not thrilled about Iman Shumpert.

LOL - seriously? That's hilariously bad.

[Groundhog]

“I believe in Donnie Walsh,” Knicks super fan Spike Lee told ESPN. “That’s his pick. We’re going to go with it. We have no choice.”

[JPhillips]

Wall-?-Singleton-Vesley-McGee would have to be one of the most athletic lineups around. Of course, they should also get outrebounded by about 20 every game.

I don't think the rebounding will be that bad.

The defense will be so bad that their opponents won't miss that many shots.

[Groundhog]

Wow, Nolan Smith.

[Groundhog]

Although FWIW I think Nolan Smith's projected 2nd round status wasn't warranted. If my team was looking for a PG I'd rather they pick Smith than, say, Shumpert.

[korme]

Johnny Flynn and Montiejunas to Rockets for #23 and Brad Smith.

Brad Smith, that's the veteran presence the T'Wolves needed!

[Groundhog]

Who is Brad Smith?

[sovereignstar v2]

Johnny Flynn and Montiejunas to Rockets for #23 and Brad Smith.

Brad Smith, that's the veteran presence the T'Wolves needed!

lolwut?

[mckerney]

Who is Brad Smith?

It was for Brad Miller.

Ugh that's a bad trade. They need young talent, they're a few years away from needing veterans.

[mckerney]

And Miller isn't even good veteran help anyway. :confused:

[Groundhog]

Ah. Yeah, that's weird, doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, let's see what they do at #23.

[Groundhog]

Trade one soft tall for another soft tall.

[mckerney]

Ah, the 23rd pick is included and a future pick. Given the Wolves have horrible international scouting it's hard to put much faith in Mirotic.

[Groundhog]

Best Brad Miller highlight reel from 2010-11:

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/oU8jICYLUgo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[DaddyTorgo]

Reggie Jackson plus Kevin Durant...NICE!!

Woulda been fun to see him with the C's, but I don't think that was really likely. Now to see what they do.

[Groundhog]

There goes the guy that Miami apparently wanted, and I guess Eric Maynor is out the door too. I thought Maynor did a better job than Westbrook much of the time these past playoffs.

[sovereignstar v2]

Errr..I'm reading that the Wolves are trading #23 now for #28 and cash. lol

[Groundhog]

If they do, god I hope they draft a PG.

[mckerney]

Errr..I'm reading that the Wolves are trading #23 now for #28 and cash. lol

I guess Taylor has to make money somehow.

[Groundhog]

Good pick by the Celtics for #25. Not sure like he sounds like the kind of player that will slot smoothly into the Celtics gameplan, but good value all the same.

[sovereignstar v2]

Good pick by the Celtics for #25. Not sure like he sounds like the kind of player that will slot smoothly into the Celtics gameplan, but good value all the same.

And there he goes to the Nets.

[Groundhog]

What did they move him for?

[Groundhog]

Pretty great pickup for the Mavs that low too.

[korme]

Mavs are trading No. 26 to Portland to acquire Rudy Fernandez, with Portland moving the pick on to Denver in the Miller/Felton deal

So... Mavs get Rudy Fernandez, Portland gets Ray Felton, Denver gets Andre Miller and Jordan Hamilton?

[DaddyTorgo]

What did they move him for?

For JaJuan Johnson (#27). BOS also picked up a future 2nd rounder.

[Groundhog]

I think that's also a good pick by the Celtics (assuming they hold onto him this time...). Looking at the breakdown on Johnson on DraftExpress, he looked like a guy who was pretty undervalued, being projected as a 2nd rounder.

[korme]

And Miller isn't even good veteran help anyway. :confused:

Yeah, I meant Miller and I was being sarcastic. KAHN!

[DaddyTorgo]

LMAO


ANOTHER POINT GUARD FOR MINNESOTA!!!!!

AHHAHAHAAHHAHAAHHA

[mckerney]

LMAO


ANOTHER POINT GUARD FOR MINNESOTA!!!!!

AHHAHAHAAHHAHAAHHA

It's funny because they still need a PG.

[DaddyTorgo]

Can Minny be the first team ever to play a 5-guard offense? Haha

[Groundhog]

If they do, god I hope they draft a PG.

!!!!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Idly curious: at what point in the draft does Travis Leslie say "uh-oh, I fucked up"?

[sovereignstar v2]

Wolves took him for the Heat...

[Groundhog]

We'll see who is laughing when 18 of the Timberwolves' contracted PGs are struck down with injury.

[mckerney]

Wolves took him for the Heat...

Oh, good. Kahn has been so great with first rounders that I can't wait to see what he'll do with a bunch of seconds.

[DaddyTorgo]

Wolves took him for the Heat...

Yeah - this seems pretty likely. What'd Minny get...a future first that's going to end up in the bottom of the first round? They'd have been better off keeping Marotic.

[DaddyTorgo]

LMAO - wait a second - did I just read that on the ticker?

Ron Artest applied to legally change his name to "Metta World Peace?"

HAHAHAHAAHAH - that's awesome

[mckerney]

We'll see who is laughing when <s>18 of the Timberwolves' contracted PGs are struck down with injury</s> Rubio proves to be nothing more than a backup PG in the NBA too.

Indeed.

[sovereignstar v2]

Yeah - this seems pretty likely. What'd Minny get...a future first that's going to end up in the bottom of the first round? They'd have been better off keeping Marotic.

#31, baby! No more guaranteed money ow ow!

[Noop]

Miami traded very well.

[mckerney]

Minnesota has a very good international scouting staff? Since when?

[DaddyTorgo]

Oooh look - another Euro guard for a few years down the line.

[jbergey22]

Minnesota has a very good international scouting staff? Since when?

Do you understand what kind of a circus they are running during the draft every single year because I dont get it?

[sovereignstar v2]

Oooh look - another Euro guard for a few years down the line.

Nets bought the #31 pick from the Wolves.

[sovereignstar v2]

Wolves must have Rambis' buyout paid off now.

[RainMaker]

Miami traded very well.
I don't know. I think they could have had Cole at 31 and they added another guaranteed contract. I guess maybe they are assuming they'll lose Chalmers.

[mckerney]

Do you understand what kind of a circus they are running during the draft every single year because I dont get it?

I just don't get where the Wolves foreign scouting reputation comes form. Who exactly have they had success with from overseas? Igor Rakocevic and Nicola Pecovic?

And I don't think it's just a circus during the draft...

[RainMaker]

Yahoo's reporters have been owning ESPN all night. They've been way ahead of the game and following them on Twitter is better than watching the draft on TV. ESPN is so behind that they are talking about needs for teams that traded a particular pick 20+ minutes ago.

[JPhillips]

D'Antoni needs to coach the Wizards. They're building the Loyola of the NBA.

[sovereignstar v2]

Wolves pick Parsons and trade him for more cash. Woohoo!

[Atocep]

I thought Honeycut would be a 1st rounder. I like the Leuer, Tyler, and Morris picks as well.

The draft lacks top end talent, but there seems to be a lot of potential value picks in the 2nd round.

[mckerney]

Wolves pick Parsons and trade him for more cash. Woohoo!

Cash will be starting at center for the Wolves this year.

[jbergey22]

Wolves pick Parsons and trade him for more cash. Woohoo!

What a pathetic fucking franchise. Not that its as big of a deal anymore but do you remember when 4-5 years ago they needed some extra cash so they gave up Roy in a cash incentive deal?

Atleast we have been waiting 2 years for this Rubio guy that averages 5 points a game and shoots under 30 percent in Europe.

[mckerney]

I have purchased the draft rights from Malcolm Lee from the Wolves by agreeing to buy 2 lower level tickets to 4 home games next year. My pickup basketball team is going to be awesome this year.

[mckerney]

Thankfully terms of the agreement do not require me to attend the games, only buy the tickets.

[Atocep]

I have purchased the draft rights from Malcolm Lee from the Wolves by agreeing to buy 2 lower level tickets to 4 home games next year. My pickup basketball team is going to be awesome this year.

Meh, you still need another 3-4 point guards.

[mckerney]

I attempted to buy the pick for 2 upper level tickets to 6 games. Needless to say, David Kahn is quite a shrewd negotiator.

[Groundhog]

Lakers manage to pick up two pretty good PG prospects in the 2nd round.

[bhlloy]

Although I knew it was going to be good, I don't think in my wildest dreams I could have predicted the hilarity that is the Timberwolves draft tonight. Kahn truly is a comic genius. Need players at every position except PG and PF? Draft a PF and then sell all your first round picks. Of course.

I think Jonny Flynn could be decent on Houston, that's a great pickup for them IMO. Their system seems to suit small, quick guards and to move up this year and get a guy who had lottery potential (and they will be patient enough to wait for), and only give up Brad Miller and a future first that is probably going to be trash... great result. Of course it helps when you are dealing with a fourth grader.

Keith Benson at 18 in the second round is a great pick for the Hawks. He's a guy who could be really valuable providing secondary scoring off the bench.

[Radii]

LMAO - wait a second - did I just read that on the ticker?

Ron Artest applied to legally change his name to "Metta World Peace?"

HAHAHAHAAHAH - that's awesome

yes, yes you did read that right. This seems to have gone unnoticed and I find it to be more entertaining than anything about this draft :D

[DaddyTorgo]

yes, yes you did read that right. This seems to have gone unnoticed and I find it to be more entertaining than anything about this draft :D

The Lakers confirmed Artest's proposed name change. They have not yet determined whether the back of his jersey will say "Peace" or "World Peace" next season.

lol

[Groundhog]

Uh, the Lakers drafted Ater Majok? He's been playing in our pro league down here this past season since leaving UCONN. Lots of red flags re: his character (wore out his welcome at one of the better teams in the competition, despite them being desperate for a big), and let's just say he didn't look exactly NBA quality on the court either. I guess on the plus side, he isn't from Qatar.

[RainMaker]

David Kahn's first trade wasn't bad. He unloaded Flynn and got a future first rounder back just to move down 3 spots. But then he proceeded to move down and acquire enough cash to buyout Rambis. They should have taken Brooks or Hamilton at 23 and called it a night.

[whomario]

Lakers manage to pick up two pretty good PG prospects in the 2nd round.


plus the 2 dudes with coolest names (maybe 3, Goudelock has to be up there) in the draft. Chukwudiebere "Chu Chu" Maduabum has to be up there with Ruben Boumtje Boumtje :D

I couldn´t watch the draft afterall so i might be missing a few trades (reading up on the draft the next morning is a clusterfuck), but here are my thought :

- Screw you Minnesota. I thought all the initial picks were good actually, then they kept trading them away ... Did they keep Parsons btw ?

- Darryl Morey did the same thing Kahn did btw, no ? How many PFs do they have now, 12 ? I hate the Morris pick especially, nothing better than Hill or Patterson. Montiejunas at least is a different type of player.
Is Parsons now a Rockets pick or Wolves ? :confused:

- I love Andre Miller on the Nuggets, that just sounds like a splendid idea if he buys into it.
Also taking Faried as sort of a successor to K-Mart, nice. Could fit very well. Hamilton seems sort of redundant though.
EDIT : Hmm, considering Smith and Chandler are Free Agents he seems much less redundant, good pick up.

- Evans/Fredette might actually work. But when you add Cousins to the mix, uh oh ...

- Why in the world do the Heat take a ball-dominant PG who isn´t a good shooter ? :confused:

- Rudy on the Mavs ? I think that´s a good idea actually. If he works out anywhere than in the Mavs system and all they gave up is the 26th pick they would have used on a project to leave in Europe. Bye bye Butler ?

-Vesely to the Wizards as expected, very talented and fills a need if he can indeed play the 3. The Wizards need to run at every oportunity and should be fun to watch.
Great draft overall with Singleton and Mack, imo.
And aparently bonus points for Vesely producing the biggest signature moment from the draft kissing his GF ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08rirsA8YaM&feature=player_embedded

- Biyombo might actually get plenty of PT early with the lack of big men on the roster (Przybilla and Diop ? Both also coming off major injuries)

- Kanter and Knight would have been better than Irvin/Thompson IMO

- I love the Pistons draft picks

- like that the Warriors picked a true 2 guard. Now just have to find a taker for Ellis.


Overall i think this was a draft that made a lot of sense for a lot of teams.

[Fidatelo]

I'm no Kahn apologist, but is it fair to put all the selling of picks on him? That feels like a directive from ownership to me. Even the dumbest GM doesn't trade bodies for cash unless they are being told they need to acquire cash.

[bronconick]

So, the Pistons drafted another combo guard and a small forward.

Tell me that means some combination of Stuckey/Rip/Prince are leaving?

[mckerney]

David Kahn's first trade wasn't bad. He unloaded Flynn and got a future first rounder back just to move down 3 spots. But then he proceeded to move down and acquire enough cash to buyout Rambis. They should have taken Brooks or Hamilton at 23 and called it a night.

You know you're talking about David Kahn when a good move is being able to get rid of the player he used the #6 pick on two years ago.

[mckerney]

I'm no Kahn apologist, but is it fair to put all the selling of picks on him? That feels like a directive from ownership to me. Even the dumbest GM doesn't trade bodies for cash unless they are being told they need to acquire cash.

When the cash is being used to buyout Rambis you can put it on Kahn.

[MrBug708]

I think Lee will good for the Wolves

[Arles]

johnhollinger (http://twitter.com/#%21/johnhollinger) John Hollinger



Math test: What's better, converting 7th pick into John Salmons, or 15th pick into George Hill?
That's about as close to pure quackery on analysis as you can get by Hollinger. Actually, Sacramento converted Beno Udrih and #7 into John Salmons and #10. The money in salaries is about equal (salmons is signed for 1 more season) and they dropped 3 spots. Hardly trading #7 for Salmons.

[Swaggs]

I kind of wish the Jazz, if they were going for a wing player at #12, would have grabbed Singleton. The guy they got sounds like a shooting guard that is largely a slasher with an unreliable outside shot. I think Singleton, although not a scorer, could have largely filled the hole that losing Kirilenko is going to make. He seems like the type of guy that you can stick on the other team's best offensive 2-3-4 and feel good.

[MrBug708]

Not sure what to make of Donatas: he's 7 feet tall and just 222 pounds; he has a rep for not playing hard all the time; and he once explained the tattoo on his chest of an eagle clutching a basketball by saying, "I really like the attitudes of eagles. They never give up. When they grab a fish or something else, they never let it go. It doesn't matter. In a book, they write they find a skeleton of [an] eagle and there is no fish. It means that the fish beat him and killed him, but he didn't let go."

Nice

[Gary Gorski]

Well as a Pistons fan I both love and hate last nights draft. I love the fact that Joe couldn't possibly blow the pick since the Cavs did it for him. I hate that fact that now he's going to get credit for drafting Knight and get a pass on the next 10 horrible moves he makes which include drafting Singler at 33. I mean really? Another SF? I don't see where he's going to play - he's too small to play 4 and too slow to guard most 3s and we've already got Jerebko who hustles his ass off and needs as many minutes as possible.

We came into the draft needing front court help in the worst way. I can't fault him for Knight because he was a) the best player available and b) we need a PG but Singler is a terrible pick IMO. Why not take Benson there? He is from here, developed very nicely at Oakland and just needs to acquire some strength to be a decent NBA center.

I don't understand how Joe keeps his job other than that the new owner seems like he is more of a fan of watching basketball as opposed to someone who actually understands it. I hope I'm wrong on Singler and yeah its only a waste of a 2nd round pick but why not at least try and get somebody at a position of need if you're not either taking a flier on someone with mega talent who was injured or stashing a really good Euro guy with that early 2nd rounder.

At least I can have the hope that they'll buy out Rip and let Prince walk. I'd let Stuckey walk too if he gets too big an offer sheet. I'm fine with a Knight/Gordon backcourt and Daye/Jerebko/Monroe to go with them. It's not a good team but at least with Knight, Jerebko and Monroe we've got something to start rebuilding with.

[whomario]

kahn apeared on simmons podcast today : http://c.espnradio.com/audio/649337/simmons_2011-06-24-163637.mp3

kind of impressive, agree or disagree on his points, that he does that and explains his thinking process and the circumstances.

part 2 with the rest of the draft : http://c.espnradio.com/audio/649361/simmons_2011-06-24-164701.mp3

[sovereignstar v2]

Word is that the 2nd round pick the T-wolves actually kept is 26 years old.

Wolves’ second-round pick lied about age, should have been ineligible - Ball Don't Lie - NBA*Blog - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Wolves-second-round-pick-lied-about-age-should-?urn=nba-wp5562)

They have a great international scouting network though haha.

[mckerney]

Word is that the 2nd round pick the T-wolves actually kept is 26 years old.

Wolves’ second-round pick lied about age, should have been ineligible - Ball Don't Lie - NBA*Blog - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Wolves-second-round-pick-lied-about-age-should-?urn=nba-wp5562)

They have a great international scouting network though haha.

So they're at 1 player drafted whose age they didn't even bother to check, and 0 international prospects who actually done anything for them. Though they did find a top ten talent in Pekovic. :rolleyes:

[stevew]

Howard for Bynum/Odom/1st round picks is supposedly close to being done according to random twitter sources.

[DaddyTorgo]

Howard for Bynum/Odom/1st round picks is supposedly close to being done according to random twitter sources.

No way - I'll believe it when I see it.

Crazy trade for the Magic to make - Bynum's got those balky knees, Odom is old...so you're giving up Howard for a couple first round picks??

[bhlloy]

So they're at 1 player drafted whose age they didn't even bother to check, and 0 international prospects who actually done anything for them. Though they did find a top ten talent in Pekovic. :rolleyes:

I just saw this. Kahn has to be trolling the NBA and the sportswriters of America right? Nobody can actually be that incompetent?

[stevew]

Kind of strange that David West turned down a 7.5M guarantee for next year, especially coming off of an ACL injury.

I wonder who will overpay for his age 31 and over seasons.....seriously can't see him getting much more than an average of 7.5m/season in his current state as a free agent.

Probably just will end up with the Hornets keeping him for 3/30 or so. But if not this is a strange decision.

[stevew]

The Ryan Russillo NBA Today podcast today is awesome if you are unsure about certain NBA CBA rules. Should be available in the ESPN podcenter or iTunes. Glad to see Larry Coon is getting some work.

[RedKingGold]

Kind of strange that David West turned down a 7.5M guarantee for next year, especially coming off of an ACL injury.

I wonder who will overpay for his age 31 and over seasons.....seriously can't see him getting much more than an average of 7.5m/season in his current state as a free agent.

Probably just will end up with the Hornets keeping him for 3/30 or so. But if not this is a strange decision.

Nah, I think he'll get big money. It's going to be a pretty depressed free agent market, especially with the new rules.

[mckerney]

I think Kahn has finally realized that he's not going to be able to land any established coach after the way he's been treating Kahn, the latest candidate to interview for the Timberwolves head coaching job is Quin Snyder.

[Noop]

So could we be seeing European games being broadcasted in America next season? If the owners are hell bent on a hard cap and a 33% cut in player salary next season will be gone.

[Logan]

Exclusive: How (And Why) An NBA Team Makes A $7 Million Profit Look Like A $28 Million Loss (http://deadspin.com/5816870/exclusive-how-and-why-an-nba-team-makes-a-7-million-profit-look-like-a-28-million-loss)

[stevew]

Thank god.

The Cleveland Cavaliers have traded power forward J.J. Hickson to the Sacramento Kings for swingman Omri Casspi and Sacramento's protected first-round pick in the 2012 NBA draft.

[Julio Riddols]

Word is that the 2nd round pick the T-wolves actually kept is 26 years old.

Wolves’ second-round pick lied about age, should have been ineligible - Ball Don't Lie - NBA*Blog - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Wolves-second-round-pick-lied-about-age-should-?urn=nba-wp5562)

They have a great international scouting network though haha.

Why on NBA.com does it say the Mavs drafted this guy and then traded him to the Blazers? Who is wrong?

[SirFozzie]

This one is going to last a while. Just heard a bit on ESPN radio that the players get 57% of revenues, while the owners demand that for the entirety of a 10 year CBA, the players get 38%.

THat's a 33% paycut right there, for a decade.

[Groundhog]

Thank god.

Yah. I fear - well, used to, not anymore - that Hickson is another Drew Gooden. I.e. a guy who, when you check the boxscores, looks like a solid PF capable of putting up a double-double night-in, night-out. Then you actually watch them play, and realise that they'll nearly give up a double-double each night too on bonehead plays alone.

I fully expect him to put up great numbers in Sacramento while the Kings take a season or two to realise they need to replace him if they want to win some ballgames.

As for Casspi, well, he took a big step backwards last season, but hopefully he can turn it around. I honestly have no strong feelings about him one way or the other, but he at the very least gives us a shooter on the wing.

[RainMaker]

I like the deal for Sacramento depending on the protection. Hickson isn't great, but I think he's a guy who can be a solid rebounder that can get you some easy buckets. Not a star or anything, but a solid rotation guy.

[Groundhog]

I like the deal for Sacramento depending on the protection. Hickson isn't great, but I think he's a guy who can be a solid rebounder that can get you some easy buckets. Not a star or anything, but a solid rotation guy.

The protection is pretty insane:

"The Cavaliers said the first-round pick they obtained is lottery protected in 2012 (Nos. 1-14). The pick is then protected in 2013 (1-13), 2014 (1-12) and 2015-2017 (1-10). If the pick is not conveyed by 2017, then Sacramento will convey its own 2017 second-round pick to the Cavaliers."

But again, the fact that talent-starved Cleveland wants to get rid of this guy tells you something. He's athletic, yes, and he rebounds (sometimes), but again, he more than makes up for these talents with his lack of fundamentals and overall effort.

[RPI-Fan]

Thank god.

FWIW, that pick has huge protections on it. (i.e. it is basically not part of the trade).

[mckerney]

Why on NBA.com does it say the Mavs drafted this guy and then traded him to the Blazers? Who is wrong?

The pick was traded twice on draft night.

[stevew]

Protections are insane. Which is a hilarious hedge against JJ Hickson helping to get them in the playoffs. I can't wait to see him and Jimmer guard a pick and roll. Will be a lot of PG/PF hitting the 30 point mark vs. them this year.

[DaddyTorgo]

The whole idea of "protecting" draft picks seems stupid to me. I wish they'd just get rid of that whole thing.

[RPI-Fan]

The whole idea of "protecting" draft picks seems stupid to me. I wish they'd just get rid of that whole thing.

What is stupid about it? It facilitates a freer market, with players going to the teams that value them most highly.

[mckerney]

The whole idea of "protecting" draft picks seems stupid to me. I wish they'd just get rid of that whole thing.

Same here, then the Timberwolves would have given the pick they used to get Randy Foye for Marko Jaric rather than a high lottery pick next year. :(

[stevew]

The whole idea of "protecting" draft picks seems stupid to me. I wish they'd just get rid of that whole thing.

It's the Celtics and Lakers fault probably. Can't have situations where the Lakers win the Title and draft #1 overall. Or Bias at #2 after the Celtics won.

[whomario]

As for Casspi, well, he took a big step backwards last season, but hopefully he can turn it around. I honestly have no strong feelings about him one way or the other, but he at the very least gives us a shooter on the wing.

that Sacramento team was a mess last year though and there´s so many weird stories coming out that i tend to think of the "where there´s smoke, there´s fire" saying, aparantly was an ugly locker room with a coaching staff that more or less didn´t care to put in the effort to disciplin it and/or develop the players.
They also had some of the weirdest rotations i´ve ever seen, it was like Westphal threw dices to determine when to sub which player.

The guy plays hard, is pretty athletic and has a good basketball IQ, i´d figure that if his shooting returns to normal next year he is a good option at SF, propably a starting caliber guy in a year or 2 imo.

Hickson allways struck me as a guy who´d be really good in a defined role but doesn´t have the mindset to play such a role. He´s just not good enough to warrant being a first or 2nd option, you need to be too creative and sacrifice too much to get him into positions to score. Bad passer and doesn´t have the skills to just "go score".

[Gary Gorski]

I'm amazed by the stupidity yet again in pro sports. The NBA has been virtually irrelevant in the sporting landscape for pretty much the past decade and now they finally have everything in place - worldwide appeal, marketable and talented young players, major market teams with good players and the ultimate PR gift of the Miami Heat...and they're going to flush it all down the toilet.

I mean really, how hard is this to figure out? The players side needs a reality check. You're being paid millions of dollars to play a game and you're the replaceable parts in the machine here. True, without today's players the league wouldn't be anywhere near as interesting but without 30 groups pumping in insane amounts of money for a game there's no league at all. Those franchises are going to be there 15 years from now - LeBron won't be.

The owners on the whole are pretty dumb IMO. An NBA franchise is not a business - its a life sized toy - and as long as you let them make a couple of bucks on the deal and get to roll around town as a big shot sports owner then they're going to keep feeding the machine. They're going to keep letting David Kahn's of the world dole out $20 million to all the Darkos out there. They're going to be convinced that semi-star players playing for bad teams should be paid $20 million a year (hello Rashard Lewis and Gilbert Arenas). They will keep funding your amazing lifestyle...until they see a red number in the bank account. Then they're going to want it all back like they do now.

The players are putting it all on the line for the likes of Eddy Curry essentially. The owners want a hard cap to save themselves from themselves and their management team. They want to know that they're not going to have more than $X in costs. That's the kind of stuff ownership says when they're losing money and the fun has stopped and they turn their attention to pinching pennies. This isn't about having to pay LeBron James $16 million - its about having to pay Rashard Lewis $22 million. Eddy Curry got paid tens of millions of dollars to sit around and get fatter. That's what is going to make the guy writing the checks stop and decide he needs to look into what the hell is going on with the checks he is writing.

It just seems the answer was simple - let the owners win. Yes, win so they would continue to pay the players millions of dollars to play a game and feel good about doing it. Eliminating guaranteed contracts would go a long way in this deal. Doing so gives small market teams or teams that nobody wants to play for (like Toronto) the option to overpay a player to come there (big win for the players side) with the ability to get out from a bad deal if it doesn't work out (big win for the owners). It's not like if the player turns into a really good player and is putting butts in the seats that they're going to get rid of him. They're only going to get rid of him if he ends up sucking (Eddy Curry) and why shouldn't they? And if you're willing to give up the guaranteed contracts then the owners don't need to push for a hard cap - in fact it would be more beneficial to some of them not to have such a cap because the hard cap is only going to spread out the talent more rather than allow teams to stockpile "big 3s".

If you avoid the hard cap you avoid a reason for teams to exercise their right to dump a contract just because they have to stay under the cap. So at that point a team is really only going to dump a contract if the player just isn't worth the money and 29 other teams agree that he's not worth the money (ie nobody will trade for him). The only other reason teams might dump a contract is if they're trying to free up enough cap space to go after a free agent. How many teams would have cut contracts to get LeBron? Doesn't that make it better for the players giving them the ultimate flexibility? And if a decent player is cut to make room for a big star its not like he's SOL. If he's worth $5 million someone else will pay him that (or more).

Essentially the LeBron's and Melos of the league are offering right now to take less than a "fair wage" based on their talents in order for players with little to no NBA talent to collect far more than they are worth. How has Billy Hunter sold that to the majority of the NBA players?

If management is paying you 30 cents a day to produce shoes then yes, you dig your heels in and you fight for the right to a livable wage for your labor. When management is paying you a million dollars to in some cases practice basketball for a couple hours a day, workout and wear a nice suit and watch a basketball game courtside you work on keeping ownership happy enough to keep writing those checks.

The damnest thing of it all is that the game really felt ready to pop once again and if had been given that chance and the owners were not only starting to make money but make more than they even expected with a rise in popularity the players could have easily ended up with even more money. The "soft cap" could have increased, salaries could have increased and pretty much everyone outside of those handful of guys who are being WAY overpaid would have been better off. Instead we're at a lockout, the season is being threatened, that momentum is ready to fall off a cliff and the owners are just going to get more and more pissed off and ask for more and more concessions especially if they are losing less money by not operating at all. The players didn't need this fight and they shouldn't have wanted this fight.

[RainRaven]

So the players are suppose to just give up a large amount of the total pie to save the owners from themselves? Eddy Curry didn't force a owner to give him that amount of money. Rashard Lewis didn't force anybody to pay him 22 million dollars to be at best a good player and not a superstar.

I would agree with you partly that I think the players need to give up some of the financial percentage that they have now but if I were them I would then go after all of the side benefits possible. Shorter time until FA for example in exchange for the financial concessions. Both sides are to blame for the current financial state of the NBA but the owners have to give the players some growth opportunities in the contract or why agree to something that is a huge decline in what you have when the game was at it's MOST popular last year.

[bronconick]

Essentially the LeBron's and Melos of the league are offering right now to take less than a "fair wage" based on their talents in order for players with little to no NBA talent to collect far more than they are worth. How has Billy Hunter sold that to the majority of the NBA players?


Because for every LeBron and Melo there's a dozen guys making a hell of a lot more money than they are probably worth? It's easier to sell the Union on those two hundred overpaid players as opposed to the 98 lockout, when they resisted so long over a max-ed out salary limit that about 25 players would ever have to worry about.

[Gary Gorski]

So the players are suppose to just give up a large amount of the total pie to save the owners from themselves? Eddy Curry didn't force a owner to give him that amount of money. Rashard Lewis didn't force anybody to pay him 22 million dollars to be at best a good player and not a superstar.

I would agree with you partly that I think the players need to give up some of the financial percentage that they have now but if I were them I would then go after all of the side benefits possible. Shorter time until FA for example in exchange for the financial concessions. Both sides are to blame for the current financial state of the NBA but the owners have to give the players some growth opportunities in the contract or why agree to something that is a huge decline in what you have when the game was at it's MOST popular last year.

Of course the owners are to blame for Eddy Curry and Rashard Lewis. I don't fault the players for getting the contracts - I'm not turning down $20 million for a year of work if someone offers it to me. But if the owners decide its not fun to pay obscene amounts of cash anymore to watch grown men play basketball then there's no more NBA.

I didn't even say the players needed to give up the current take they get in terms of revenue. All I said was they need to let the owners out of bad deals. I think it was Bill Simmons who did an article where he talked about the 300m in losses and then rattled off the most egregious contracts in the league and that alone would have covered the losses.

As for why agree to it? Because if the owners take their ball and go home you're looking at doing what exactly if you are an NBA player? Going to play overseas? If that's so great why are guys like Josh Childress back in the NBA? Taking their college degrees to get jobs in their fields...oops, not many have them do they and the ones that do...how many jobs are there for "general studies" in the work place when people with masters degrees can't find jobs? You agree to it because maybe you're not being paid as much as you could be but you're still being paid far more money than most people and for doing something you love.

I'm not suggesting the players should have shown up and told the owners to put down whatever they wanted and that's how it would go. I said they should have given in on something major, shown the owners how that would save them from their financials missteps, taken a little less here or there, gotten, like you said, a couple of small concessions for their own personal benefit and called it a day rather than daring the owners to dig in and see just who can outlast who and give the owners more time to think about what else they can win in this negotiation.

[stevew]

All they need to do us basically increase the escrow % to about 20(from 8) and the current system works fine. Plus I'd figure out how to protect a guy's first 2m from escrow and tax the amounts over 4m at a higher rate.

[RainRaven]

Of course the owners have more options as to what to do during the lockout, they always do in any professional sport in a situation like this (Though as a side note the audience is paying money to see the players not the owners play on that court). I think at the end the players will give in quite a bit financially but I think they would have done so quicker if the owners actually intertwined the revenue sharing into the discussions instead of Stern acting as though that is a separate issue. It's a shame that no matter what it's another situation with two rich groups of people arguing about who gets the biggest slice of pie and not truly negotiating yet it seems.

[Gary Gorski]

Because for every LeBron and Melo there's a dozen guys making a hell of a lot more money than they are probably worth? It's easier to sell the Union on those two hundred overpaid players as opposed to the 98 lockout, when they resisted so long over a max-ed out salary limit that about 25 players would ever have to worry about.

But you know what, if there's not a hard cap then teams are still going to pay players more than they're worth. They always have and always will. Minnesota is still going to put $5 million bucks in Darko's bank account this season. He's still fairly young, a seven footer, he showed that when he was healthy he could block shots and grab some boards and its enough promise that they can justify $5 million as being not THAT bad...as long as they're making money. It's the guys like Rip Hamilton, Rashard Lewis, Antawn Jamison, Brandon Roy, Corey Maggette, DeSagna Diop, formerly Eddy Curry...those are the guys teams are going to be done with.

I think it also sets up teams better to keep stars around. Lets say Duncan wants another deal and he thinks he can play 3 more years. Without a guarantee in place the Spurs have no reason not to give Duncan that 3 year deal and if he proves he can't play anymore than they can walk away. Everyone wins there - Duncan gets the deal he wants and the chance to earn that money and the Spurs get the security they want knowing if he doesn't they can walk away if they want to.

If there's a hard cap in addition to it then that changes everything - then yes, players are going to get cut left and right and only brought back at what they're "worth" because teams have to try and fit so many players in under X dollars.

[Gary Gorski]

Of course the owners have more options as to what to do during the lockout, they always do in any professional sport in a situation like this (Though as a side note the audience is paying money to see the players not the owners play on that court). I think at the end the players will give in quite a bit financially but I think they would have done so quicker if the owners actually intertwined the revenue sharing into the discussions instead of Stern acting as though that is a separate issue. It's a shame that no matter what it's another situation with two rich groups of people arguing about who gets the biggest slice of pie and not truly negotiating yet it seems.

But that's why I don't understand the players in these situations. Lets say they all quit - will the NBA be able to find people who play basketball and would like to make $100,000+ a year to do it? Will the players be able to find someone else willing to pay them up to $20 million a year to play basketball for them? Yes the game is worse off and less watchable (or not watchable) with replacement players BUT the league would rebound more and more with the influx of new talent each year. Those players will never find someone who is going to pay them that kind of money to play basketball.

This situation is different than the NFL. The NFL owners are making crazy money too so they have something at stake in the battle. The NBA owners are not making that kind of money while the players in each sport are both making crazy money. That's why I think this is such a failure on the players part - they're trying to play a strong hand (rise in popularity) from a horribly weak position. Had they gone in and given the owners something huge right off the bat then maybe it levels the playing field a little and some negotiating could be done. Instead now we've just got two sides dug in and its going to get ugly with the owners having the ultimate control in the situation as usual.

[albionmoonlight]

The NFL model of semi-guaranteed contracts (i.e. signing bonuses that cannot be taken back and that are pro-rated against the cap) seems, by far, like the best and most fair solution.

The LeBrons of the world will demand and receive bonus heavy contracts. The Darkos of the world will get short contracts with low bonuses while they try to prove themselves.

As long as the teams and agents understand the game (i.e. it is all about bonus money), then it works out fairly.

[albionmoonlight]

dola: In fact, as NFL contracts have gotten most sophisticated, you can see how people can use that system to engineer some pretty worthwhile deals.

Players will get a "7 year" contract, with a reasonable bonus and three years of reasonable salary. Then, in the offseason before year four, the player is owed a roster bonus equal to the GDP of Australia. Of course, the parties know that that bonus will never be paid, but it forces the team at that point to either renegotiate the player or cut him before it is due. So, with creative use of the money, everybody knows that that is really a three year deal with a some basic parameters set out for renegotiating after that point. This allows the parties maximum flexibility and the ability to look out for their own interests.

[Gary Gorski]

dola: In fact, as NFL contracts have gotten most sophisticated, you can see how people can use that system to engineer some pretty worthwhile deals.

Players will get a "7 year" contract, with a reasonable bonus and three years of reasonable salary. Then, in the offseason before year four, the player is owed a roster bonus equal to the GDP of Australia. Of course, the parties know that that bonus will never be paid, but it forces the team at that point to either renegotiate the player or cut him before it is due. So, with creative use of the money, everybody knows that that is really a three year deal with a some basic parameters set out for renegotiating after that point. This allows the parties maximum flexibility and the ability to look out for their own interests.

I think that the ultimate solution lies in blending the best of the NFL system with the best of the NBA system. How much better off would the NFL be with a set draft pay scale like the NBA? Clearly the NBA would be better off with the NFL semi-guaranteed model of contracts. With the NFL being the king of all sports I think it would be foolish not to look at it as a model.

[Noop]

http://i52.tinypic.com/103d35l.jpg

[RainMaker]

The thing is that there is a salary cap right now. And the proposed new hard cap is actually a little more than what the soft cap is currently set at. So this entire lockout is based around the fact that owners can't control themselves.

I understand there are issues with small vs big market teams and competition. But that's a revenue sharing issue. The owners want every team to make money regardless of how poorly they are run or where they are located.

[RainMaker]

But that's why I don't understand the players in these situations. Lets say they all quit - will the NBA be able to find people who play basketball and would like to make $100,000+ a year to do it? Will the players be able to find someone else willing to pay them up to $20 million a year to play basketball for them? Yes the game is worse off and less watchable (or not watchable) with replacement players BUT the league would rebound more and more with the influx of new talent each year. Those players will never find someone who is going to pay them that kind of money to play basketball.

The NBA is star driven though. Yes they could throw replacement players and bring in new talent, but it would take a decade to build a base of players worth seeing. Can the league survive that? We have other options for sports in this country. We've seen some leagues bounce back to an effect after work stoppages, but what you're talking about is an extreme.

I pay $110 a ticket per game on my season ticket package for the Bulls. I wouldn't pay $10 a ticket for a season of watching D-League talent. The reason I spend the money and watch the games is because I enjoy seeing Derrick Rose play. I enjoy seeing guys like Lebron, Durant, Wade, and so on come in on a nightly basis and play. I'm not paying or even caring to watch Curtis Stinson star.

Yes the owners will always have leverage because they are billionaires and don't give a shit about a year off. But they do need the players to survive. TNT and ESPN are not offering huge dollars to televise crap. No one is tuning in to see crap. And definitely no one is paying big bucks to sit and watch crap in a jersey of a crap player.

[bhlloy]

The NBA owners need to be very, very careful what they wish for. This isn't the NFL where the US is the only country in the world that really plays football and they are the only game in town. There are a lot of leagues around the world that are well supported, have a decent amount of money and would love to pay these guys more than an average wage for a couple of years while the NBA realizes the corner they have backed themselves into.

Don't usually agree with Rainmaker but he's dead on here. The NBA is a star driven league and it's dead without the stars. And the owners don't have a leg to stand on because all these guys can go and make a couple hundred thousand tax free in Europe for a couple of years. I don't know what the answer is but it's going to be painful and it's going to be really bad for the league.

[Noop]

After I saw the documentary about the Seattle Sonics I am convinced that David Stern is a man out of touch with reality. This lockout is Stern's fault for caving into the demands of the owners. Instead of forcing them to be smart with their money he coddles their stupidity.

I side with players on this one. It sucks that there is a possibility of having no NBA next season but the owners brought it upon themselves.

[Warhammer]

I think this actually gives the NBA a chance if things work out right. I am a firm believer that what is healthy for a league is marketing teams, not players. This gives the NBA the chance to retool their marketing.

A big part of what created the Magic v. Bird mystique was the teams they played for. Sure they were stars, but they went to the two most storied teams in the league.

[RainMaker]

No it wasn't. It was because it was Bird vs Magic. We had teams like the Celtics in the Finals many times and the ratings were atrocious. The Celtics played in the 1981 Finals to record low ratings.

[Groundhog]

Even if the entire season goes, I'll be shocked if some of these big names play overseas. For starters, they aren't going to be getting as much money as the probably think, as there are few teams that could afford a multi-million dollar contract, let alone enough cash to make it worth risking an injury, especially to US players who are currently or about to be free agents.

[Neon_Chaos]

http://i52.tinypic.com/103d35l.jpg

WHO THE HELL IS AL HARTFORD?

[Arles]

Just a quick aside. Numerous people have said the Suns would have moved Amare to the Cavs for the Jamison package had the Cavs included Hickson. So, in a bit of a rewind, I wonder what would have happened had Lebron and Amare had a big playoff run in the 2009 playoffs following that deal? Would Lebron have stayed in Cleveland with Amare? Would Amare and Lebron have gelled and end up going to NY together?

A lot of what ifs, but we will never know all because Danny Ferry wouldn't part with Hickson to land Amare ;)

[MikeVic]

Just a quick aside. Numerous people have said the Suns would have moved Amare to the Cavs for the Jamison package had the Cavs included Hickson. So, in a bit of a rewind, I wonder what would have happened had Lebron and Amare had a big playoff run in the 2009 playoffs following that deal? Would Lebron have stayed in Cleveland with Amare? Would Amare and Lebron have gelled and end up going to NY together?

A lot of what ifs, but we will never know all because Danny Ferry wouldn't part with Hickson to land Amare ;)

I never understood that. Wouldn't Hickson's potential peak be someone like Amare that scored a bit less but rebounded a bit more? Why value him so highly? Can someone please explain?

[Groundhog]

I never understood that. Wouldn't Hickson's potential peak be someone like Amare that scored a bit less but rebounded a bit more? Why value him so highly? Can someone please explain?

I guess there was always the possibility he might be able to play defense as well.

[stevew]

Arles- supposedly the Suns were the team that said no. According to other sources. I can't believe the Cavs valued Hickson more than Amare.

[stevew]

Gloria James vs. Amare's mom would have made for an epic whore off.

[MrBug708]

http://i52.tinypic.com/103d35l.jpg

I cant see Kobe going to play in a difference country at this point

[Arles]

You never know, but this local guy had it that the Suns would have accepted the deal for Hickson. The other beat reporter said the same thing:

Gambo: What now for Amare, Suns? - ArizonaSports.com (http://arizonasports.com/category/gambo-blogs/20100218/Gambo:-What-now-for-Amare,-Suns?/)

The Suns had two teams vying for Stoudemire's services, Miami and Cleveland, and were willing to deal their All-Star center if they could have received a "home run" package. They had serious discussions with Cleveland on a deal that would have landed them second-year power forward JJ Hickson, the expiring contract of Zydrunas Ilgauskas, forward Danny Green, the Cavs first-round pick and cash. The Suns were not willing to take anything less from the Cavs in order to move Stoudemire and the Cavs eventually found a trade partner in Washington that enabled them to land Antwan Jamison without giving up Hickson.

[cartman]

Yao Ming announces his retirement.

Yahoo report: Yao Ming to retire - Game On!: Covering the Latest Sports News (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2011/07/yahoo-report-yao-ming-to-retire/1)

[whomario]

Yao Ming announces his retirement.

Yahoo report: Yao Ming to retire - Game On!: Covering the Latest Sports News (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2011/07/yahoo-report-yao-ming-to-retire/1)


sad news indeed :( Propably my favourite player of the last decade and actually he was the main reason i started watching the NBA more seriously. When he got injured in the Lakers series that was among my worst days as a sports fan, it just felt so freaking unfair after what he´d gone through allready, his amazing personality and work ethic and just after he had a moment that could have been career defining moment (coming back from a knee bump in game 1 at Staples and then hitting key buckets en route to posting a 28/10 and totally owning the Lakers FC that night) if he had any sort of normal career...

The sad thing is he was one of those guys where people allways looked at his percived "gift" of being so tall as the reason he was good without considering that that height and weight also was a big burden (not just with the injuries but also on the court) and that he was just as much an incredibly skilled player that had to put in a great deal of work to overcome his deficits.
In a way he was just as unique but also challenged as a 7´1 guy would be if he tried to play and defend Small Forwards.

also the Rockets supporting cast from 04 to 07 makes the Heat role players look competent (fun fact : Did you know they started 17 different guys in the 04/05 season ?)

When people say he would have struggled in the 80s or 90s and was only good because the talent at Center was bad i get a good chuckle as Yao was by far at his best when facing traditional big men. Ask Dwight Howard.
Yao in a slower paced league with more 1:1 coverage and no real zone defenses would have benefitted immensely on offense as well as defensively he´d have been more at ease defending big guys instead of 6´9/610 shooters and a less strict hand-check rule.

[stevew]

I actually always hated Ming. The china can vote for the AS game stuff was BS. For as tall as he was, he was never a good rebounder or shotblocker. I'd have expected him to post significantly better numbers than 2 blocks, or about 9.5 rebounds.

I understand his place in the game, etc, but I'm glad he's gone.

[Arles]

Yeah, I don't really get the Yao love either. He was a pure Euro big man (nice set shot from 8-15 feet, but little rebound/defense) and was constantly hurt. I think he was a solid player to have on a team, but no different than a lot of guys in the NBA. 18-20 PPG, 8-10 RPG and a ton of missed games for 5-6 seasons seems like a slightly above average career to me and nothing more. To me, guys like Al Jefferson and Elton Brand will be just as productive (for a longer period) and I doubt you will have near the hub-bub when they retire as Yao got.

[stevew]

Somehow Ibaka is now a Spaniard which gives them at least 5 solid players(Rubio/Gasols/Rudy Fernandez). They might be worth investing in for the Olympic Gold if the odds are good enough.

[whomario]

Don´t forget Calderon and Navarro (you know, the guy with the 15 foot floater that allways goes in when the game is close ;) ). Then further down the depth chart you have guys like Llull who was Real Madrid´s best player, or Victor Claver who both could play a role in the NBA right now.

Heck, their 12th man from the previous tournaments (Fernando San Emeterio) made the All-Euroleague 1st team and was the MVP of the spanish league this past season ... He also plays the only position that had trouble to fill previously (Small Forward)

Their preliminary roster doesn´t even include recent first round pick Mirotic, former NBA PG Raul Lopez or Fran Vazquez who was a big contributor in recent tournaments.

They have by far the most talent outside the US squad, definitely.

[stevew]

The matchups should be interesting. And the depressing thought is that next year's Olympic tourney might be the NEXT competitive pro basketball I/we watch. Gotta figure the US will need to bring at least Howard and Chandler to check Spain, plus a guy like Carmelo would probably get killed if he has to try to guard a Gasol brother. All kinds of questions such is Kobe going to want to play again. Can you play Durant or Melo in the post. Is the US going to be smart enough to bring a JJ Reddick or Jimmer or Curry type that can destroy a zone. I can't wait.

[whomario]

Overall the upcoming Eurobasket (starts august 31st) could be really, really good. I´ll keep you posted with streaming links if you´d like to see some basketball (albeit at unusual times with the different time zone) then ;)
The last couple tournaments a lot of teams missed key players, this year it looks as if most teams are pretty much at full strength.

Not good news for the german team i´m afraid, even if Nowitzki plays they´ll be in for a tough fight to even come close to qualifying for the London games (i think the first 2 go automatically, 3-5 earn spots in an aditional qualifying tourney).

earlier in the month Lithuania won the U19 WC btw with Raptors draft pick Valanciunas being by far the best player in the tournament (24/14 on 60% shooting, 30/15 against the US, 36/8 in the final), he´ll likely also be in the Eurobasket squad.

Enes Kanter will also play for Turkey who are in the same group as spain and Lithuania

[Neon_Chaos]

Woot woot.

NBA players in basketball crazy Philippines!

NBA stars here vs Gilas, PBA (http://www.philstar.com/SportsArticle.aspx?publicationSubCategoryId=69&articleId=706629&keyword=sp_pba)

NBA MVP Derrick Rose joining Kobe Bryant, Chris Paul in Manila after all (http://sports.inquirer.net/7751/nba-mvp-derrick-rose-joining-kobe-bryant-chris-paul-in-manila-after-all)

[Neon_Chaos]

Woowoo!

Watching Kobe, CP3, Rose, Fisher, Evans, Durant, Harden, Mcgee, and Derrick Williams live here.

To be fair, the Philippine All Stars are keeping the game close. :)

This is so awesome!

[Noop]

I have a solution for the small market teams. No more guaranteed contracts with an exception give teams the ability to sign their own free agents to guaranteed contracts (3 years max). If a player leaves for another team he gives up guaranteed money and is subject to being cut for under performing.

[whomario]

Nowitzki and Kaman yesterday commited for the Eurobasket. Could care less about Kaman, but seeing the younger german players get zje chance to finally play with the Dirk is great, hope they somehow manage a Top5 finish to keep the olympics hope alive (tough group and tough table for the first ko stages though ...)
Talent level really still isn´t the greatest, to put it mildly. 3rd or 4th best players propably wouldn´t play more than a few spot minutes for teams like Spain, turkey, france or lithuania ...

[stevew]

I'm listening to Stern on the BS Report. I really think that there isn't going to be a season. In fact, unless principle parties in the negotiation change, I'm not sure this will ever resolve itself.

[DeToxRox]

A good friend of mine works as a n owners assistant. He asked him when he'd get to go to some home games and the owner's exact quote was "When the players realize we have them bent over a fucking barrel".

[Atocep]

I'm listening to Stern on the BS Report. I really think that there isn't going to be a season. In fact, unless principle parties in the negotiation change, I'm not sure this will ever resolve itself.

We'll start to see some strides made when some of the players have missed half of a season's worth of paychecks and the rest are tired of making less money living in Europe. We probably won't have a season this year, but the players will cave eventually and they'll end up with a deal like the NHLPA took.

[Neon_Chaos]

Recap of the awesome event that was held in the Philippines last month.

Still can't believe it actually happened.

Kobe Bryant, Derrick Rose and Kevin Durant played in Manila last weekend. Why? - Grantland (http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6812753/kobe-takes-manila-nba-not-invited)

<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3xXm0JMc7NA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[whomario]

Nice article on Grantland about Arvydas Sabonis : Jonathan Abrams on the long, strange trip of Arvydas Sabonis - Grantland (http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6867508/arvydas-sabonis-long-strange-trip)

not exactly much new stuff, but still a good read with a few details that usually aren´t in articles on him. And even if you aren´t interested in Sabonis, it also features some real solid Bill Walton hyperbole ;)

definitely one of the big what-if stories of the NBA (heck, as it was he still averaged 18/11 with 3 assists per 36 minutes for his NBA career on a pretty good team)

[whomario]

only a couple days to go before the Eurobasket :) EuroBasket 2011 (http://www.eurobasket2011.com/en/default.asp)

GROUP A: Spain, Turkey, Lithuania, United Kingdom, Poland, Portugal

GROUP B: Serbia, France, Germany, Israel, Italy, Latvia.

GROUP C: Greece, Croatia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Finnland

GROUP D: Slovenia, Russia, Belgium, Georgia, Bulgaria, Ukraine.

3 teams advance to a 2nd group stage where they then play 3 games against the top3 from the partner-group (A and B ; C and D).
Bolded the teams i think will advance.

Germany has a pretty tough group, although they caught a break with Israel (Casspi) and Latvia (Biedrins) missing very key players.

But Serbia is one of the facourites to win it all with a super deep squad, France has tons of talent (but imo will fall short) and Italy has great potential with Bargnani, Gallinari and Bellinelli.

The preperation games went smoothly enough for the german team, but it will still need monster games from Nowitzki to have any shot at even the 6th place finish to get a shot at the olympics in another qualifying tourney next summer (only the 2 finalists qualify directly)

For some reason the german coach continues to think it is a good idea to start a PG (Steffen Hamann) who can´t shoot or score at the basket and isn´t a very good passer and now decided to pair him with an SG who can´t shoot or score either ... (Jo Herber who is a great defender though, some guys might remember him from his days as a 4 year starter at West Virginia from 02-06)

[whomario]

first day of Eurobasket 2011 just ended, no real suprises but a couple too-close-for-comfort wins by the favourites.

things that stood out from watching and stat-wise with a focus on NBA players/prospects :

-Spain with their usual slow start, just barely edge Poland (no Gortat or Lampe). Pau had 29, Marc 16.

-France vs Latvia was a very nice game ending 89-78, Parker had 31 points and got whatever he wanted most of the time. NOah (10 pts) and Diaw (14) did a nice job inside and later adjusted well to the zone, passing the ball out of the middle to the shooters (who were mostly ice cold though).
For Latvia Janis Blums did his best Steve Nash impression scoring 32 from all over the court (should have shot even more though, went 12/18) while executing the PnR very well.
Spurs Draft Pick Davis Bertans looked very good in limited minutes, had an awesome block and scored well, suprisingly with a couple nice moves to the basket.

- Italy looses to Serbia, the NBA guys (Bargnani, Gallinari, Bellinelli) had no help at all. Serbia is just fun to watch, a bunch of young but allready experienced and smart players that simply do their job. They have no star, but great chemistry.

-Germany with the most lopsided win of the day against Israel, 91-64. I´m pleasently surprised :)
Kaman 18/10 in 20 minutes, Nowitzki with 25 after never topping 15 in the warmup-games. Got some nice help from Benzing (12), Schaffartzik (10) and Schwethelm (9).

-Enes Kanter looked very good for Turkey in an easy win over Portugal, scored 14 on 7-9 shooting.

-Lithuania beats GB 80-69. Valanciunas surprisingly little playing time, old man Sarunas Jasikevicius scores 13, nearly-as-old Kaukenas scores 16. Deng had 25/10 for GB, they didn´t get any help from their bench though (4 of their starters combined for all but 2 of the team points)

[stevew]

I'm always happy in times like these that some player rep like Derek frickin Fisher is gonna decide whether or not the other players play basketball. Isnt there a player from a more prestigious school than Ark-Little Rock available? Maybe an ivy leaguer or a non-sociology Duke guy? It's bad enough that players like Fisher(and Michael Curry before him) who wouldn't be on the starting team of many rec leagues, stay in the league due to generous guaranteed deals and their amassed wealth of political power. We've got the NBA version of Kevin Mawae set to go to the mattresses so that Eddie Curry can make 13 million.

And the owners are content to not play in order to protect the profitability of David Sterling, a fucking housing discriminator.

Anyways, I just wanna see basketball.

[whomario]

meanwhile the Eurobasket just started the 2nd group stage today and has allready had a couple awesome games, tonight Lithuania beat Serbia 100-88. Not that Serbia was having a bad game, they actually played really gutsy and were allways a thread to get close again, but Lithuania just was on fire and moved the ball so, so well all game long.

If you have a chance to watch some games, i encourage you to do so. On Saturday Spain and Serbia meet at (i think) 8,30 am and Lithuania and France at 2 pm.
Quarterfinals start on the 14th. (the torunament mode of 2 group stages is stupid ...)

Sarunas Jasikevicius at 35 still got it, their shooters are ridiculous and Raptor Draft Pick Valanciunas had his coming out game at this level with 18 points, 5 boards and 2 blocks on 8-9 from the field.

Hope they win it all, play beautiful basketball and the fans are just great. They play very fast paced, take risks, move the ball and have a couple great PnR artists.

Germany all but eliminated, decent effort but just too many brain farts (Nowitzki rightfully went apeshit on Ohlbrecht against Serbia after he missed a key defensive rotation) and not enough heart and talent from the role players. And Nowitzki only playing very good and not otherwordly which he´d have to to overcome the fact that Germany has at best 4 decent players (and most games it´s not even that) while France, Serbia, Lithuania or Spain basically have 12 guys that would be at worst the 4th best player on the german team.