Alright Boyz, Let's Play Ball! The OOTP 12 Discussion/Impressions Thread:

[SirFozzie]

Just saw the news over at OOTP Developments that the game is due out tommorrow (probably mid afternoon), so for those of you who wanted to get the $10 off preorder special, now's the time:

A couple new features From Markus's email on Friday:

06/17 Update - A couple of surprises - OOTP Developments Forums (http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/ootp-12-general-discussions/209702-06-17-update-couple-surprises.html#post3147793)


1) League finances projection : In the past it was pretty tough to set up a fictional league and change the financial settings (i.e. player salaries, average media contract etc.) while maintaining financial balance in the league. You had to simulate multiple test seasons in order to find out if your financial settings work. This is now obsolete, on the league setup (financial settings tab) screen you will find a projection of team average revenue, payroll, other expenses and overall profit/loss. This makes it very easy to set up the finances of your league the way you want to

2) Automatically calculate league total modifiers so that the stats output match the league totals : Sounds complicated, but isn't. Imagine you want your league to match 1984 MLB, both in terms of strategy, finances and simulation results. The former two could already be attained in OOTP 11, but the stats output was again trial and error. Now I have added a function which lets you enter your desired league totals (= output), hit a button, and the game quick-simulates the season while adjusting the league total modifiers. The result is that your league will spit out league total stats that are within +/- 2% of the real stats. Oh by the way, this funtion is utilized for historical leagues automatically, resulting in the best historical simulation accuracy ever!

3) Player Development Screen : This screen shows you the current player development budget (optional), the top prospects and the positional depth chart of your organization. You can select whether you want to display just prospects or all players of your team, and base the ranking on current ability or potential. See here for a screenshot:

4) League Newspaper : This is the new place where you can check all the new & highlight of your league. Besides covering all the news you'll discover a few interesting articles, like leaderboards, historical info, team power rankings etc. We're sure this will improve immersion quite a bit!

Looks like they've made pretty good strides with historical/fictional leagues (I love fictional leagues myself).

Out of the Park Baseball: Pre-Order OOTP 12 (http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/out-of-the-park-baseball/preorder.php)

Price goes from $30 to $40 once officially released tommorrow.

[spleen1015]

I am looking forward to this since I got rid of the WoW bug and I am back to playing other games.

[CrimsonFox]

So did they actually fix things like the AI, the schedule, the pitching rotation, you know, itty bitty things like that?

[miked]

Maybe the WC team won't have homefield advantage any more. Or maybe FA comp will go by size of contract rather than who signs first. But at least you can give vesting options.

[CleBrownsfan]

Always love the release day of a new OOTP series! For me - it's the most play I get from any other game - PC or console...

[stevew]

Maybe the WC team won't have homefield advantage any more. Or maybe FA comp will go by size of contract rather than who signs first. But at least you can give vesting options.

It actually should go by the highest rated player(based on positional performance, not in game ratings).

But I hear you.

[GrantDawg]

So did they actually fix things like the AI, the schedule, the pitching rotation, you know, itty bitty things like that?


Years ago. The stats are solid, and the AI handles the rosters very well. This years version should even be better regarding stats, especially historical seasons. The game sets the stat range for the season, then does 3 quick sims (he says lasts less than 15 sec) at the beginning of the season to make sure the stats all fall within +/- 2.5% of the goal. The only time I have ever seen scheduling problems is if you alter the league a good bit, but then you have options (big mod area to down load different schedule options). It is a solid, easy to use and quite deep game. And the additions this year are just going to improve it.

[miked]

By the way, I'm not saying the game is terrible, I love my v11 and online league play. As a commish, the upgrades over the past several years have been awesome.

But fix the shit that's been broken for a few versions, especially when it's stuff as basic as playoff seeding and FA compensation (which is not basic, is quite confusing in real life). Also, top 15 picks (before prior year's compensation for unsigned draftees) are protected.

[RainMaker]

Did it get released?

[spleen1015]

Did it get released?

Today some time. Markus says around 2pm EST emails should be hitting inboxes.

[MizzouRah]

Should be anytime now.. pre-order discount has been closed.

Going to suck down some beers tonight and get some serious time with the new version tonight!

[cubboyroy1826]

Very interested to see what other think about the new version. I have OOTP11 and it ran very slow on my current Dinosaur computer but I liked it better than the other recent versions. My issue is that my playing time is very limited so I am not sure I will pickup the OOTP12 for a while.

[SirFozzie]

btw, if you didn't preorder, not only are you going to have to pay $10 more, but the official release date for non preorders is Wed :P

[DanGarion]

When the heck and where the heck do preorders get their early download?

[spleen1015]

When the heck and where the heck do preorders get their early download?

You will get an email with the link.

[MizzouRah]

OOTP forums getting hammered.

[Rizon]

OOTP forums getting hammered.

I was kinda guessing that, since I haven't been able to reach the forum for about an hour. :D

[MizzouRah]

I was kinda guessing that, since I haven't been able to reach the forum for about an hour. :D

Yeah.. me either. ;)

[CleBrownsfan]

OOTP forums getting hammered.

Yeah - figured they will be until that e-mail gets sent out.

Can't wait to import my solo league and start playing again. I just finished year 6 a few weeks ago (I play out each game - so it takes a while) and waited to start the next season until v12 came out.

[Passacaglia]

Why would people be hammering the forums before the email is out?

[CleBrownsfan]

To see if it's out ;)

[Rizon]

To post on the OT boards in a Face the Board thread.

[Passacaglia]

dur..

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

From Markus:

Hey guys,

just a little update: We're currently uploading the files to our download mirrors. Unfortunately, one server is pretty slow when it comes to upload (looks like it's busy), so this will take a bit longer than hoped. My current ETA would be in about 90 Minutes if all works well. Keep your fingers crossed! We'll immediately send the emails out with the links once the uploads are complete.

Cheers,
Markus

[McLovin]

just got the email and downloading...

[Alan T]

Downloaded in 3 minutes (pretty fast mirror servers). Installing now

[spleen1015]

just got the email and downloading...

Same

[Sweed]

Got my email. D'loading now, 5 minutes away!

[spleen1015]

Downloaded in 3 minutes (pretty fast mirror servers). Installing now

which mirror did you use?

[Alan T]

which mirror did you use?


Windows Mirror #3

[Alan T]

Well, looks like problems trying to activate my license key. Guess everyone else is hammering it too.

[spleen1015]

Well, looks like problems trying to activate my license key. Guess everyone else is hammering it too.

Mine worked, sir. :D

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Worked after I tried it a few times.

[Alan T]

Mine worked, sir. :D


Mine did eventually too :)

[MizzouRah]

downloading.. have to finish my current season.. then import.. going to be a nice long night...

[Rizon]

downloading.. have to finish my current season.. then import.. going to be a nice long night...

With the 30 pack?

[Peregrine]

Got mine downloaded and activated - copying over my old leagues from 11 now. Woot!

[cougarfreak]

Well, looks like problems trying to activate my license key. Guess everyone else is hammering it too.

Took me three tries.

[Peregrine]

Also I am drinking a highly appropriate beer - Pyramid's Curve Ball

[MizzouRah]

With the 30 pack?

You betcha!

[GrantDawg]

First major bug....none of the staffs salaries are working. Markus promises first patch on Wednesday, but just a heads up for people transferring league and might find that important.

[cougarfreak]

Didn't the game come with current player photos last year as facegen photos last year with the mlb quickstart?

[GrantDawg]

Didn't the game come with current player photos last year as facegen photos last year with the mlb quickstart?


You have to get the add-ons from add-on central in game. Right now trying to get it to work. The game itself doesn't ship with them.

[GrantDawg]

Got it to work. Need to restart the game (didn't work initially), and then hit "reload add-on list."

[BYU 14]

Just read the game has rudimentary reserve clause financials for the pre-free agency era.....I doubt I will be able to skip this years release as planned with this and some of the other historical stuff.

[Sweed]

Posted at OOTP forum and waiting an answer but is anyone seeing States all fucked up in an imported game? Here's a copy of what I posted at OOTP fourm...

Imported v11 league with typical MLB setup. State names are fouled up for many clubs. Here are the ones I have found

Illinois = Leova ( so you get Chicago, Leova when you search city name, no option for Chicago, Illinois. This applies to all of the cities\states in my list)

Tennessee = Basarbbeasca
Florida = Cimislia
Idaho = Cantemir
Ohio = Camenca
Montana = Ruyigi
Colorado = Stefan Voda
Oklahoma = Cantemir
North Carolina = Rezina
Michigan = Riscani with a ^ over the i
New Mexico = Monte Carlo
Missouri = Ulcanbataar
Wisconsin = Grigoriopol
Texas = Briceni
Ontario = Chumphon
Wash DC = imported as Washington Criuleni

Had a city named Norfolk come in as Norfolk, Fontvielle. Not sure what the state should be except Nebraska and Mass. both show in the list of possible names.

With the new\improved\reworked world database is this an import issue?

Are others seeing it?

Not sure If something fucked up on import. Maybe as simple as the world data file corrupted on the download? Haven't seen any other posts so either people don't have the problem of they just haven't looked deep enough to see it. I found it while checking over my Cubs screens and went into the roster tab and subtab where you can see your ballpark and city settings. Only saw it as I wanted to make sure stadiums stayed assigned to the right teams.

[Sweed]

dola

Received one replay from a long user at OOTP that doesn't have the issue in an imported game. So, must be just me.

I'll probably try to uninstall\reinstall with a different setup file.

[Sweed]

double dola

Got a reply from a beta tester saying this happened to him during testing. He was the only one and it only happened once. Markus couldn't find the cause but a re-import worked fine.

[RainMaker]

I guess I preordered this im March and forgot. Still haven't gotten an e-mail though which is not surprising.

[cougarfreak]

Lots of contractual errors with the 2011 OD Rosters, a LOT. I'm still not seeing an all in one installer. I see one for 2010, but I can't get a connection to a server. Can't get historical facegen to work either, through the in game add on.

[DanGarion]

I guess I preordered this im March and forgot. Still haven't gotten an e-mail though which is not surprising.

Check your PMs.

[DanGarion]

If anyone preordered and hasn't got the email let me know and I'll do my best to send you the download links. Only ask if you preordered. Since I don't think it's fair that you haven't gotten it, you paid in advance like everyone else.

[SirFozzie]

Rain, also check your spam folder.. I know GMAIL thought mine was..

[RainMaker]

Thank you, got it. I'm going to be up late tonight.

[DanGarion]

I'm currently running a sim from 1901 to present day with real rosters and real lineups, I'll put it online for people to look through once it is done. Been running for about 30 mins now and I'm up to 1914.

[RainMaker]

I upgraded my computer a couple months back so I don't have to worry about this game crapping out on my old crappy computer everytime I sim a lot. Looking forward to seeing how it performs on this computer.

[RainMaker]

Is anyone else getting "The game could not be activated, please try again in a few minutes".?

Edit: Nevermind, eventually went through.

Edit #2: Jim Hendry is a moron and I have a ton of work to do to rebuild this Cubs franchise.

[Passacaglia]

Probably not the best day for me to decide to download my old copy of OOTP 10, but this thread has made me want to check it out again.

[Big Fo]

I just pulled off my first dodgy trade on the new game (default trade difficulty, scouting on with high accuracy).

Braves get: SS Elvis Andrus

Rangers get: SS Alex Gonzalez, LF Gary Sheffield

But nobody wants Kenshin Kawakami, that part is realistic. Perhaps the Rangers just felt bad because the Braves gave them Andrus in a bad trade.

[Balldog]

Tried to create a Nippon Baseball League but for the life of me cannot get FaceGen to activate. I've taken a few years off because I've gotten overwhelmed with the newer style (since 6.51).

[CrimsonFox]

It's not letting me activate the game. It's saying to try back again in a few minutes. Anyone else getting that?

[Sweed]

Posted this at OOTP forum and wanted to share it here.


This new "auto-calc league total modifiers" feature is an outstanding addition to OOTP. On my imported leagues I usually spend a couple of hours tweaking my league totals modifiers with each new version, and that is just doing MLB. With this new feature I did not only MLB but 5 levels of minors at an average of about 20 seconds per league.
That's right less than 5 minutes and I'm done.

Just as a comparison I'll list my manual adjustments for this league compared to OOTP 12.

My modifiers are in ( ) : OOTP12 modifiers are stand alone

hits: (.958) .981
2b: (1.066) 1.043
3b: (.871) .767
HR: (.788) .777
BB: (.898) .855
HBP: (1.308) 1.345
K: (1.003) 1.005

DP: (1.128) 1.293
Balk: (.644) .528
WP: (.865) 1.029
SB Att: (.825) .930
SB%: (1.089) 1.038

Pretty damn close. Some seem a bit off but most are almost right on. Keep in mind OOTP 12 uses a 3 year sim where my figures are only based off of the just completed season.

What is more impressive when doing modifiers manually the categories listed above are the only ones I touched. OOTP adjusts everything, and I mean everything. Outfield assists, to sacrifice bunt frequency, to errors by position. Everything!

Thanks you Markus, simply outstanding.

[spleen1015]

It's not letting me activate the game. It's saying to try back again in a few minutes. Anyone else getting that?

Yeah, keep trying and it will work.

[BYU 14]

Much nicer crowd here, there are some people on the OOTP boards that are just brutal. Especially over the rosters. Curious what opinions are here?

[DanGarion]

I'm up to 1971, the engine appears to be quicker than in the past.

[cougarfreak]

Much nicer crowd here, there are some people on the OOTP boards that are just brutal. Especially over the rosters. Curious what opinions are here?

A lot of contract data is really screwed up for the current rosters. This despite being billed as having accurate data, etc. ahead of time.

[spleen1015]

I am kind of wondering if maybe the wrong version of the roster set was included with the final build. There are so many issues being reported, I don't know how they thought they were the 'most accurate roster set EVER!!!'.

[cougarfreak]

I am kind of wondering if maybe the wrong version of the roster set was included with the final build. There are so many issues being reported, I don't know how they thought they were the 'most accurate roster set EVER!!!'.

A lot of people are screwed if they wanted to start a current career if the issues arent fixed.

[cougarfreak]

I can not get anything to download right from the in game add on central. The ask your owner for more money feature evidently wasn't included with this release either. I'm beginning to think its definitely a half baked product at this point. Were rosters accurate for iootp? I think a lot of people are going to be pissed off.

[CrimsonFox]

Yeah, keep trying and it will work.

Thanks! You're the nicest spleen I've ever seen.

[jetpunk2000]

Dan or anyone can you PM me the download links if possible? Still no email. thx

[DanGarion]

I stopped at the start of 1972 here are the all time leaders in everything.


http://i.imgur.com/45QGl.png

All I can say is Ted Williams must have been a freaking beast!

[SackAttack]

You have to love Walter Johnson having 300+ losses and the highest pitcher WAR in league history, though. How bad were the teams he pitched for? Eesh.

[RainMaker]

I can not get anything to download right from the in game add on central. The ask your owner for more money feature evidently wasn't included with this release either. I'm beginning to think its definitely a half baked product at this point. Were rosters accurate for iootp? I think a lot of people are going to be pissed off.
The worst part is that it's midseason already and if it takes a month or two to get these things ironed out, you're not looking at a playable game till the end of the season. Maybe he should shift to a 2-year cycle so that the games are more complete and actually come out before opening day.

[21C]

I'm pretty sure they said that they are working towards an opening day release for OOTP13.

[GrantDawg]

I'm pretty sure they said that they are working towards an opening day release for OOTP13.


This. With GRAPHICS! :D:D:D

[MizzouRah]

Sweed, I'm reading about some minor bugs and I'm going to import my v11 league.. have you had anything show stopping yet?

[DanGarion]

I did a 110 year sim.

I'm uploading the history right now. I didn't really change anything, I'll explain more later, the only thing I did was set the rosters and lineups to historical.

It will take a couple hours to get the whole upload but here it is to look at.

BNN Home Page (http://dev.dangarion.com/mlbtest/)

[RainMaker]

This game is night and day with a fast computer. Am able to sim a season in around 5 minutes. Something that took 30+ minutes a couple years ago.

[Rizon]

Posted this at OOTP forum and wanted to share it here.


This new "auto-calc league total modifiers" feature is an outstanding addition to OOTP. On my imported leagues I usually spend a couple of hours tweaking my league totals modifiers with each new version, and that is just doing MLB. With this new feature I did not only MLB but 5 levels of minors at an average of about 20 seconds per league.
That's right less than 5 minutes and I'm done.

Just as a comparison I'll list my manual adjustments for this league compared to OOTP 12.

My modifiers are in ( ) : OOTP12 modifiers are stand alone

hits: (.958) .981
2b: (1.066) 1.043
3b: (.871) .767
HR: (.788) .777
BB: (.898) .855
HBP: (1.308) 1.345
K: (1.003) 1.005

DP: (1.128) 1.293
Balk: (.644) .528
WP: (.865) 1.029
SB Att: (.825) .930
SB%: (1.089) 1.038

Pretty damn close. Some seem a bit off but most are almost right on. Keep in mind OOTP 12 uses a 3 year sim where my figures are only based off of the just completed season.

What is more impressive when doing modifiers manually the categories listed above are the only ones I touched. OOTP adjusts everything, and I mean everything. Outfield assists, to sacrifice bunt frequency, to errors by position. Everything!

Thanks you Markus, simply outstanding.

And to think this use to take ... WEEKS ... back in the day. The major change they did a few years ago did lower that from weeks to hours or days. But yeah, pretty excited about this.

[Johnny93g]

I spent around 2 hours yesterday setting up a solo league to mirror real life. Logos, jersey's, facegen, the Japanese league.

I still haven't played a game, which is fine, as I knew that part would be time consuming. Today, I see that Marcus posted the MLB rosters are fucked up and tommorow's public release will contain the rosters they meant to release yesterday.

That's a tad annoying, but atleast my losses will be minimal.

So just looking over what I have done so far, I noticed that the Nippon Japanese league has talent equal, if not better then the MLB. I added that league to the MLB setup via "add standard league"

Ideally, I want the Japanese league to mirror real life. I want talent there, but only the odd guy good enough to be really good in the MLB. I want 2-3 players from the league to come over to North America each season. I want some unsigned MLB guys to play over in Japan if no MLB teams are biting.

For those that have played like this, what settings do you use, change? I've never set up a league like this before, and my first attempt obviously wasn't the way i anticipated.

Any advice would be appreciated

[PadresFan104]

I can not get anything to download right from the in game add on central. The ask your owner for more money feature evidently wasn't included with this release either. I'm beginning to think its definitely a half baked product at this point. Were rosters accurate for iootp? I think a lot of people are going to be pissed off.

Just an FYI on Add-Ons Central:

1) Add-Ons Central links to the server where I host my mods. Release day is always "server gets slammed" day. This is a free service provided by me and a friend, and we are not part of the OOTP team, so you shouldn't really use the performance of our server as a measure of the quality of the game.

2) The All-In-One Mod for 2010 works just fine for 2011, so I have renamed it to the 2010/2011 All-In-One Mod.

3) The file is HUGE, over 200 MB. When hundreds of people are trying to access it, some people connect, some people don't. Keep trying, it will work for you eventually. Remember, this was not anything you paid for, and not an advertised "feature" of the game. Just some guys going the extra mile for the community.

4) I am working with the facegen mod team to get the latest images for rookies. When that's done, I will re-release the All-In-One Mod as a 2011 version.

[Ramzavail]

I did a 110 year sim.

I'm uploading the history right now. I didn't really change anything, I'll explain more later, the only thing I did was set the rosters and lineups to historical.

It will take a couple hours to get the whole upload but here it is to look at.

BNN Home Page (http://dev.dangarion.com/mlbtest/)

Sigh - look at the Mets in '88.

[GrantDawg]

Just an FYI on Add-Ons Central:

1) Add-Ons Central links to the server where I host my mods. Release day is always "server gets slammed" day. This is a free service provided by me and a friend, and we are not part of the OOTP team, so you shouldn't really use the performance of our server as a measure of the quality of the game.

2) The All-In-One Mod for 2010 works just fine for 2011, so I have renamed it to the 2010/2011 All-In-One Mod.

3) The file is HUGE, over 200 MB. When hundreds of people are trying to access it, some people connect, some people don't. Keep trying, it will work for you eventually. Remember, this was not anything you paid for, and not an advertised "feature" of the game. Just some guys going the extra mile for the community.

4) I am working with the facegen mod team to get the latest images for rookies. When that's done, I will re-release the All-In-One Mod as a 2011 version.


You do a good job, man. Don't let the frustrated get you down. You are appreciated.

The rosters were messed up, and i am glad they are fixing it this fast. Some other little annoying bugs, nothing to major. The main one to keep in mind is hitting staff/player shortlist will crash you. Just say no, man.

[DanGarion]

Sigh - look at the Mets in '88.
And no way the 88 Dodgers only get 53 wins! WTF...

[DanGarion]

I'm seeing an issue with attendance in a simmed 110 year league. Average attendance for the entire NL is only 500,000 per team for the year of 2010?!?

[RainMaker]

Just an FYI on Add-Ons Central:

1) Add-Ons Central links to the server where I host my mods. Release day is always "server gets slammed" day. This is a free service provided by me and a friend, and we are not part of the OOTP team, so you shouldn't really use the performance of our server as a measure of the quality of the game.

2) The All-In-One Mod for 2010 works just fine for 2011, so I have renamed it to the 2010/2011 All-In-One Mod.

3) The file is HUGE, over 200 MB. When hundreds of people are trying to access it, some people connect, some people don't. Keep trying, it will work for you eventually. Remember, this was not anything you paid for, and not an advertised "feature" of the game. Just some guys going the extra mile for the community.

4) I am working with the facegen mod team to get the latest images for rookies. When that's done, I will re-release the All-In-One Mod as a 2011 version.

You are a good man. Thank you.

[SirFozzie]

Are you sure financial updates was turned on, Dan?

Either the export is borked, It shows the Red Sox Salary and available money for every year 1901-2010 as :

$24,940 $70,590

I was also thinking the game generates stadiums based on 1901 attendances and never updates them because even at the top, making playoffs four straight years, the top Red Sox attendance was a touch under 800,000, or less than <10K a game.

[JetsIn06]

Are you sure financial updates was turned on, Dan?

Either the export is borked, It shows the Red Sox Salary and available money for every year 1901-2010 as :

$24,940 $70,590

I was also thinking the game generates stadiums based on 1901 attendances and never updates them because even at the top, making playoffs four straight years, the top Red Sox attendance was a touch under 800,000, or less than <10K a game.

That's my first though as well, considering the game gives teams a stadium with less than 5k attendance for the first few decades of the 1900's. However, for some reason I thought it auto-updated the stadia, but that might be my wishful thinking :)

[GrantDawg]

That's my first though as well, considering the game gives teams a stadium with less than 5k attendance for the first few decades of the 1900's. However, for some reason I thought it auto-updated the stadia, but that might be my wishful thinking :)


Actually, Markus said it did. At least for the stadium affect rating.

[GrantDawg]

Dola: but if you don't update the league financials, it probably will just stay at when you started.

[SirFozzie]

Checking: Yup: If you set it to "replay" mode (use real historical transactions) it disables the following things:

Financial System
Minor leagues
roster Limits
Trades
draft
injuries
suspensions

[MizzouRah]

Looks like Markus has worked his butt off to get the Majors.quickstart fixed and uploaded.

Head over to the OOTP forums for directions and the download link.

[DanGarion]

Are you sure financial updates was turned on, Dan?

Either the export is borked, It shows the Red Sox Salary and available money for every year 1901-2010 as :

$24,940 $70,590

I was also thinking the game generates stadiums based on 1901 attendances and never updates them because even at the top, making playoffs four straight years, the top Red Sox attendance was a touch under 800,000, or less than <10K a game.

I'm not worried about financials, remember I said I had the game set up to use Historic Rosters and Historic Lineups, I'm figuring financials are moot at that point.

I was more worried that the attendance didn't start increasing, but I would expect that is because the game isn't updating the ballparks? Which seems weird since the teams move, but I haven't looked over the sim other then uploading it this morning right before work (I've been at work all day).

[DanGarion]

Checking: Yup: If you set it to "replay" mode (use real historical transactions) it disables the following things:

Financial System
Minor leagues
roster Limits
Trades
draft
injuries
suspensions

So stadium attendance figures are only part of the financial system? Interesting.

[GrantDawg]

So stadium attendance figures are only part of the financial system? Interesting.


Yes. Does it affect how a hitter hits?

[DanGarion]

Nolan Ryan started his Angel career 0-30 (0-12 in '72, 0-9 in '73, and 0-9 in '74)! WOW!

[MizzouRah]

VERY happy with the game thus far after importing my v11 league.

It's going to be a late night...

[GrantDawg]

Patch is up (as well as the full game for non-preorder people). Fixed a lot of the problems with the real opening day major league rosters (which seemed have been an upload bug that messed it up). Almost all the major contracts got fixed, and players are the right levels for the most part. Seems much improved over last years shipped set (still missing the minor league past season stats). It runs faster than previous versions as well. I'd highly recommend picking it up if you haven't.

[heybrad]

I haven't played OOTP since 5.0 and I'm considering going for it this time, but as someone who is a total novice at this, is it really that difficult to start up a league? I've seen 2 hours mentioned. Also, it kind of sounds like I need to be a statistician with the league modifier stuff. Can I get up and running fairly quickly and easily?

I'm off work today so if I'm going to do, now is the time.

[Markus Heinsohn]

I haven't played OOTP since 5.0 and I'm considering going for it this time, but as someone who is a total novice at this, is it really that difficult to start up a league? I've seen 2 hours mentioned. Also, it kind of sounds like I need to be a statistician with the league modifier stuff. Can I get up and running fairly quickly and easily?

I'm off work today so if I'm going to do, now is the time.

2 hours?? Nonsense. You click one button, wait for the files to copy (a few seconds), select a team and are good to go! :)

There are always people for whom creating leagues is a form of art, and they spend several hours setting rules, installing custom logos etc. But nobody forces you to do that.

You can get into OOTP very easily, and dig as deep into it as you like, it's your choice!

Hope that helps,
Markus

[spleen1015]

I haven't played OOTP since 5.0 and I'm considering going for it this time, but as someone who is a total novice at this, is it really that difficult to start up a league? I've seen 2 hours mentioned. Also, it kind of sounds like I need to be a statistician with the league modifier stuff. Can I get up and running fairly quickly and easily?

I'm off work today so if I'm going to do, now is the time.

It all depends on what you want to do. I can set up any size league with the settings I like in about 10 minutes.

It gets really complicated because there are so many options and there were more added this year.

If you want to fire up a fictional league that starts in 2011, it isn't that hard to set up.

If you want to play a fictional league that starts in 1871 and you want every year to be like 1966, then it is a pain in the ass I am finding out, but doable.

[Drake]

To echo spleen...

A 24 team fictional league with 3 levels of minors (my preferred setup) usually takes less than ten minutes to get running. Longer if you want to do things like rename awards, franchises, etc.

[fantom1979]

I did a 110 year sim.

I'm uploading the history right now. I didn't really change anything, I'll explain more later, the only thing I did was set the rosters and lineups to historical.

It will take a couple hours to get the whole upload but here it is to look at.

BNN Home Page (http://dev.dangarion.com/mlbtest/)

Looking through these stats I can already see that OOTP is a pass for me this year. Once again it appears that certain parts of the game are terribly flawed and it just ruins the experience for me.

Just a few examples:

1. Caught Stealing (http://dev.dangarion.com/mlbtest/history/league_100_leaderboard_season_0_117.html) numbers are out of control. The single season leader was caught 69 times in one year. The real MLB leader (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/CS_season.shtml), Rickey Henderson with 42, wouldn't even crack the top 100 list in this league.

2. The Mets (http://dev.dangarion.com/mlbtest/history/team_year_22_2009.html) benched Jose Reyes in 2009 to start Alex Cora and Anderson Hernandez.

3. Chipper Jones (http://dev.dangarion.com/mlbtest/players/player_13952.html) has batted under .230 for the last 5 years. In real life he led the MLB with a .364 average in 2008 (batted .158 in the sim).

4. The 43-119 2003 Detroit Tigers (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/2003.shtml) managed to pull out a 81-81 record in this sim (http://dev.dangarion.com/mlbtest/history/team_year_5_2003.html). How did they manage this amazing 38 game improvement? Jeremy Bonderman's 2.86 era didn't hurt (http://dev.dangarion.com/mlbtest/history/team_year_5_2003.html). (Real era in 2003 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bondeje01.shtml): 5.56)

5. Pulling up a player like CC Sabathia (http://dev.dangarion.com/mlbtest/players/player_15582.html) brings several of issues. First, his birthyear (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sabatc.01.shtml)is wrong. His career BB/9 is 1.87 (real life: 2.8). The sim has had him come out of the bullpen 28 times in his career, including an amazing 11 times in 2006 (In real life he has never come out of the bullpen). In the sim, the Yankees had him come out of the bullpen on October 2nd, 2010, which cost him his start on October 3rd.

6. Since 1919, one MLB player has put up an ERA under 1.50 (Bob Gibson 1968). In the sim, it happened 17 times, including an amazing 0.77 by Jose Rijo in 1994.

These might seem like nitpicking, but I found them with little effort. Just experience of knowing what to look for in OOTP sims. CS is always high. AI decisions regarding lineups and pitchers is questionable. Walks from top tier pitchers always seem to be in the Cliff Lee territory. When the game does try to create a player like Ubaldo (real life (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jimenub01.shtml), sim (http://dev.dangarion.com/mlbtest/players/player_16502.html)), his stats are often incorrect because the game seems to have difficulty creating this type of starting pitcher. These pitchers have a tedenicy to keep their ERA relatively low by giving up less hits and striking out a fair share of batters. The game seems to replicate this by either not realizing that these guys give up less hits (which results in a higher WHIP and ERA than it should be) or by reducing the number of walks the pitcher allows (which results in a equal or lower ERA).

Examples:

Jonathan Sanchez (real (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sanchjo01.shtml)-- sim (http://dev.dangarion.com/mlbtest/players/player_16606.html)) higher era
Randy Wolf (real (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wolfra02.shtml)-- sim (http://dev.dangarion.com/mlbtest/players/player_15214.html)) lower era thanks to a 2.3 bb/9 (vs 3.3 in real life)
Ryan Dempster (real (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/dempsry01.shtml)-- sim (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/dempsry01.shtml)) lower era thanks to a 1.26 whip (vs 1.45 in real life)
Clayton Kershaw (real (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kershcl01.shtml)-- sim (http://dev.dangarion.com/mlbtest/players/player_16960.html)) lower era thanks to a 2.3 bb/9 (vs 3.9 in real life)
Tim Lincecum (real (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/linceti01.shtml)-- sim (http://dev.dangarion.com/mlbtest/players/player_16754.html)) lowered walks, lowered hits, raised strikeouts vs real life
Bud Norris (real (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/n/norribu01.shtml)-- sim (http://dev.dangarion.com/mlbtest/players/player_17217.html)) The game seems to have gotten his bb/9 just right, but his in game era is lower than real life thanks to the game putting him in the bullpen.
CJ Wilson (real (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wilsocj01.shtml)-- sim (http://dev.dangarion.com/mlbtest/players/player_16415.html)) I don't know what is going on here. His stats are way off for 2010 to even begin a comparison. His average start in the sim lasted less than 3 innings (in 33 starts).


Jon Lester (real (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lestejo01.shtml)-- sim (http://dev.dangarion.com/mlbtest/players/player_16516.html)) The game got Lester down almost perfect. Walks are a tad low, but definitely within the margin of error. Lester shows that the game is capable of creating a quality pitcher without a low amount of walks, but for some reason just has difficulty doing so.
David Price (real (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/priceda01.shtml)-- sim (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/priceda01.shtml)) Another good sim here.



I like Markus and the game he creates, I just wish he would focus on getting the little things right. I don't care about baseball cards or world league baseball. I would just like to know that in a fictional league a guy that is a team's #1 prospect isn't going to get waived. I just want to see a guy who won the MVP the year before isn't going to get demoted or released because his power rating dropped a point. I just don't want to see stuff like this (http://dev.dangarion.com/mlbtest/players/player_14735.html) (0-27 7.11 era last 2 seasons) or this (http://fantom1979.dyndns.org/ootp/50.jpg)or this (http://fantom1979.dyndns.org/ootp/51.jpg)anymore. :banghead:

/rant

[GrantDawg]

I like Markus and the game he creates, I just wish he would focus on getting the little things right. I don't care about baseball cards or world league baseball. I would just like to know that in a fictional league a guy that is a team's #1 prospect isn't going to get waived. I just want to see a guy who won the MVP the year before isn't going to get demoted or released because his power rating dropped a point. I just don't want to see stuff like this (http://dev.dangarion.com/mlbtest/players/player_14735.html) (0-27 7.11 era last 2 seasons) or this (http://fantom1979.dyndns.org/ootp/50.jpg)or this (http://fantom1979.dyndns.org/ootp/51.jpg)anymore. :banghead:

/rant


It all depends on the settings when you run the sim. I did a 1921 to 2010 sim, and had none of the problems you listed. Now, all the players do exactly as they did in RL? No. And one of things I found, the fluctuation where a miss setting on my part (should have set a single season recalc on my players rating, instead of the past three seasons). But overall, the final leader boards where pretty solid. I'm going to try it again with that one change (maybe starting in 1901) and see what happens.

This game provides a lot of options, and those options give you flexibility on how rigid you want your replay. Some people don't want exact numbers, some people want them very close. You have those options as you choose. Exactly, how is that a bad thing?

[MrBug708]

It's a double-edged sword. If you have Todd Van Poppel rated as he was going into the draft and he develops into a possible HOF player, is that unrealistic? Or do you have him drafted with his actual ratings and blast the draft AI for not taking Todd as not being true to real life MLB?

[Peregrine]

Well I'm starting an OOTP 12 dynasty - we'll see how it goes.

Snakebit - OOTP 12 dynasty with the Atlanta Rattlesnakes - Front Office Football Central (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=81704)

[Markus Heinsohn]

Looking through these stats I can already see that OOTP is a pass for me this year...

Really, it all depends on the settings you use for the sim. There are so many possible ways, there is no way to tell what this simulation used.

In our test simulations accuracy was incredible if used single-season replay mode, for example. OF course, when using other settings things may vary more, but this is intentional too.

And in fact, we do 'focus on the little things' every year. And to draw conclusions from one sim doesn't make a whole lot of sense in my opinion :)

Cheers,
Markus

[fantom1979]

It all depends on the settings when you run the sim.

I don't think you read my post. There is no setting that will fix my SP examples above. A guy like Sanchez is broken because he gives up too many hits. Since he is already a high walk guy, this explodes his WHIP, which in turn explodes his ERA. If you turn down hits in the league settings, your leader board for batting hits will be out of whack and your top tier pitchers will have lower ERAs.


I did a 1921 to 2010 sim, and had none of the problems you listed.

Website link? I would love to take a look. I have ran over 100 long term sims in the last 4 years (part of being a previous beta tester and on the "dream team") and I always run into the same stat abnormalities. I do not own a copy of v12, but as I pointed out, I see the same abnormalities in DanGarion's league as I did in my previous testing.





Now, all the players do exactly as they did in RL? No. And one of things I found, the fluctuation where a miss setting on my part (should have set a single season recalc on my players rating, instead of the past three seasons). But overall, the final leader boards where pretty solid. I'm going to try it again with that one change (maybe starting in 1901) and see what happens.
This game provides a lot of options, and those options give you flexibility on how rigid you want your replay. Some people don't want exact numbers, some people want them very close. You have those options as you choose.

I am not asking for it to be exact. I pointed that out explicitly with my Jon Lester explanation. It should be in the same ballpark, with the players reflecting the same traits that they show in real life.


Exactly, how is that a bad thing?

Its a bad thing that the players are not who they should be. Take my Tim Lincecum example. His W/L record and ERA are pretty close between the sim and real life. But the game had to reduce his WHIP by 10% and Increase his K/9 by 20% to accomplish that. At what point can you change the mechanics of who a player is, and still call him the same player? Lincecum was just one of nine pitchers I listed who's underlying stats are different from their real life stats for 2010. I am sure I could find more if I wanted to look deeper.

I have no problem if the game decides that a player will have a hot or cold year. I have a problem when a player is a fundamentally different player than they are in real life.

[GrantDawg]

Sorry, already erased the old saves with the new patch, and that is one the reasons I am re-running the game. But with the new options (real lineups and rosters) you should see much better results than in previous years. It is easy to see why a 3 year recalc versus a one year recalc would scew the results more (injury seasons and rookie seasons are going to weigh players down a lot longer), so we will see the numbers here. i have no way to host the results on the web, unless you have a suggestion.

[GrantDawg]

I'll add another variable, and that is with coaching active. I turned it off this time, but imagine coaching tendency would also skew results.

[GrantDawg]

Ok, so far into 1921, and I can already see that you are right about the caught stealing stat. That is still completely broken. 30 players already that have 50+ caught stealing numbers.

[sovereignstar v2]

It's a double-edged sword. If you have Todd Van Poppel rated as he was going into the draft and he develops into a possible HOF player, is that unrealistic? Or do you have him drafted with his actual ratings and blast he draft AI for not taking Todd as not being true to real life MLB?

How would OOTP/Lahman ever know that Van Poppel was a good High School pithcer? Not a good example.

[fantom1979]

Really, it all depends on the settings you use for the sim. There are so many possible ways, there is no way to tell what this simulation used.

In our test simulations accuracy was incredible if used single-season replay mode, for example. OF course, when using other settings things may vary more, but this is intentional too.

And in fact, we do 'focus on the little things' every year. And to draw conclusions from one sim doesn't make a whole lot of sense in my opinion :)

Cheers,
Markus

Come on Markus, I've been around for years. Do you really think I based a multiple paragraph rant on 1 sim? Granted, I have only seen 1 sim from OOTP 12, but when those results match up with results that I have seen dating back to OOTP 2006, it is worrisome.

There is no way I can look at the starting pitching issues I see, combined with problems like the AI sitting Jose Reyes for 2/3 of the season and Chipper Jones batting under .230 for 5 straight years (who won a batting title in real life during that time) and not think something is wrong. There is no setting I know of that you can change that would result in that.

I've been in the beta. I know all of the hard work that goes into that. I also know that there is not a ton of time for the beta testers to research and get into the stuff that makes this game tick.

Markus, this is a very good game, but its not a must buy for me. If you want it to be a must buy, then the game needs to be polished up.

[fantom1979]

dola


I will just end on this and be on my way. If someone has never played OOTP before, its is amazing. The amount of options and stats that are in the game is incredible. If you are huge into detail and little things bug you, there are things in this game that might make you bang your head into your keyboard. I see problems where apparently others have not, so please don't let my ranting here dissuade you from picking up this game. I've been playing since 2003, so maybe the little things have just gotten under my skin.

[GrantDawg]

BTW, unless you just stopped reading, the Jose Reyes thing was right. If you are using the historical lineups and transactions, Reyes only played 36 games in 2009. So, he wasn't benched, he was injured and that is correct.

[fantom1979]

The sim had Reyes play 142 games with 259 at bats with no injury in his log. They benched him in the sim. If the sim is trying to replicate Reyes' MLB season, I am not a fan on how it was done. It looks like a benching.

[Drake]

Heh. This is one of the big reasons I play with fake players. I don't want to be bugged by fake versions of real players not behaving the way I think they should (even with numbers to back it up). Takes all of the fun/immersion out of it if I'm comparing a fake universe to the real one and niggling over the discrepancies.

(Note: I get that lots of people really dig historical re-sim. Good for them. I'm not one of them.)

[GrantDawg]

The sim had Reyes play 142 games with 259 at bats with no injury in his log. They benched him in the sim. If the sim is trying to replicate Reyes' MLB season, I am not a fan on how it was done. It looks like a benching.


That is one of things they are still working on fixing. They have most the historical transactions, but there are something the game doesn't recognize (suspensions and the like), and if the injury isn't program in the database, then it will use the historica lineups and limit other players ab's. Still, he had the right at-bats, and wasn't the AI, but his player history that limited them.

[DanGarion]

Really, it all depends on the settings you use for the sim. There are so many possible ways, there is no way to tell what this simulation used.

In our test simulations accuracy was incredible if used single-season replay mode, for example. OF course, when using other settings things may vary more, but this is intentional too.

And in fact, we do 'focus on the little things' every year. And to draw conclusions from one sim doesn't make a whole lot of sense in my opinion :)

Cheers,
Markus
I agree with you completely Markus. But just an FYI, I changed no settings beyond Historical Rosters and Historical Lineups. All other settings remained default. So I'm taking the settings as they are out of the box. Which I would think most people expect should produce a reasonable representation of what really happened in baseball.

[GrantDawg]

I am now in the 1940's, and I can see where the problem lies in cs stat. it is all the early 1900's. There is not a single player on the leader board after 1916. They didn't keep the stat back then, so the game just isn't figuring it quite right (unless some historian is saying that they threw stealers out way more than later back then).

[DanGarion]

I am now in the 1940's, and I can see where the problem lies in cs stat. it is all the early 1900's. There is not a single player on the leader board after 1916. They didn't keep the stat back then, so the game just isn't figuring it quite right (unless some historian is saying that they threw stealers out way more than later back then).

I was going to point this out, it is primarily in the early 1900's but Brett Butler did get a TON of CS in the 80's in my sim as well.

There are some anomalies.

24 Rodney Scott 52 1980
40 Frankie Frisch* 49 1927
40 Rodney Scott 49 1979
46 Mookie Wilson 48 1982
46 Brett Butler 48 1983
74 Garry Templeton 44 1977

Rodney Scott only had a total of 62 CS in 267 attempts in about 5 full seasons of play.

In real life Butler was caught 23 times in 1983.

[DanGarion]

Sorry I can't put all the player cards on the server, if anyone wants to see a specific player I can take a screenshot.

[RainMaker]

Lo
3. Chipper Jones (http://dev.dangarion.com/mlbtest/players/player_13952.html) has batted under .230 for the last 5 years. In real life he led the MLB with a .364 average in 2008 (batted .158 in the sim).


I understand frustration with this, but it's much more complex than I think we give credit for. The game has Chipper Jones in it with his current ratings. It also has his previous stats. But he's likely going to be thrown into the development curve of your typical 39 year old baseball player. It doesn't see a savvy veteran hitter with years of experience, it sees a 39 year old with these ratings and then does what it does to 39 year old players. I'm sure there are models built in to the game that would have a 39 year old keep his abilities for a few more years, but perhaps the Chipper Jones created player didn't fall into that slot.

It's why you can't go into the MLB roster sets with preconceived notions. It's a unique universe with MLB players and teams skinned over it. The same players won't always excel.

There are still some issues with career arcs I'd like to see fixed. I still think the game doesn't give enough credit to experience and tends to have too many players fall off a cliff as they get older. Players aging should be more gradual and would help avoid issues where a high rated 39 year old player suddenly turns into a Single A player in 6 months.

[GrantDawg]

I was going to point this out, it is primarily in the early 1900's but Brett Butler did get a TON of CS in the 80's in my sim as well.

There are some anomalies.

24 Rodney Scott 52 1980
40 Frankie Frisch* 49 1927
40 Rodney Scott 49 1979
46 Mookie Wilson 48 1982
46 Brett Butler 48 1983
74 Garry Templeton 44 1977

Rodney Scott only had a total of 62 CS in 267 attempts in about 5 full seasons of play.

In real life Butler was caught 23 times in 1983.


Yeah, haven't made it that far in this new set, but it is just an early 1900's problem for the most part. Not something that would bother me, but I can see if you are as anal some, then it is a real problem.

[GrantDawg]

I understand frustration with this, but it's much more complex than I think we give credit for. The game has Chipper Jones in it with his current ratings. It also has his previous stats. But he's likely going to be thrown into the development curve of your typical 39 year old baseball player. It doesn't see a savvy veteran hitter with years of experience, it sees a 39 year old with these ratings and then does what it does to 39 year old players. I'm sure there are models built in to the game that would have a 39 year old keep his abilities for a few more years, but perhaps the Chipper Jones created player didn't fall into that slot.

It's why you can't go into the MLB roster sets with preconceived notions. It's a unique universe with MLB players and teams skinned over it. The same players won't always excel.

There are still some issues with career arcs I'd like to see fixed. I still think the game doesn't give enough credit to experience and tends to have too many players fall off a cliff as they get older. Players aging should be more gradual and would help avoid issues where a high rated 39 year old player suddenly turns into a Single A player in 6 months.


But then, sometimes they do. Chipper's (and I also noticed Dale Murphy's) career end up pretty bad overall in my replays because of the recalc on last three setting. Bad years/injury years sucked their ratings down too long. Going to see how it changes in this new replay. But Chipper in a regular player development game doesn't really drop off a cliff as bad in this version or last. Chipper in 2011 version of the game usually had about the same year he is having irl now in the sim season. Same with the one year I simmed out in 2012. Now, the computer definitely wanted to replace him in the lineup for Prado, but i can see that.

[RainMaker]

But then, sometimes they do. Chipper's (and I also noticed Dale Murphy's) career end up pretty bad overall in my replays because of the recalc on last three setting. Bad years/injury years sucked their ratings down too long. Going to see how it changes in this new replay. But Chipper in a regular player development game doesn't really drop off a cliff as bad in this version or last. Chipper in 2011 version of the game usually had about the same year he is having irl now in the sim season. Same with the one year I simmed out in 2012. Now, the computer definitely wanted to replace him in the lineup for Prado, but i can see that.
I think that's just him being skinned on a 39 year old who is destined to drop off quickly at that age while in previous years he wasn't.

Had the same problem a couple years ago with Alfonso Soriano. No matter what I did, he fell into a .150 hitter within a year. So I edited another player on the team with his exact ratings and vice versa. Soriano went on to have a normal career arc. You are just skinning a random player model with a real world player. Try picking another player (free agent perhaps) and editing all his stuff to be Chipper Jones, then swapping the two and seeing if that fixes the problem with him.

[DanGarion]

Yeah, haven't made it that far in this new set, but it is just an early 1900's problem for the most part. Not something that would bother me, but I can see if you are as anal some, then it is a real problem.

Although it could be that there is a larger number of CS in the game which would be an issue. There are not as many SBs as there were in the past which could be why there aren't as many guys on the CS list.

I just looked this up and this isn't the case. It does appear that something needs to be fixed with the SB/CS numbers in the early 1900's though, which regardless of someone being anal or not is an issue when teams are only getting 55% SB percentage.

[GrantDawg]

I think that's just him being skinned on a 39 year old who is destined to drop off quickly at that age while in previous years he wasn't.

Had the same problem a couple years ago with Alfonso Soriano. No matter what I did, he fell into a .150 hitter within a year. So I edited another player on the team with his exact ratings and vice versa. Soriano went on to have a normal career arc. You are just skinning a random player model with a real world player. Try picking another player (free agent perhaps) and editing all his stuff to be Chipper Jones, then swapping the two and seeing if that fixes the problem with him.


What? We may be speaking different references. What is being discussed here is a historic league with no player development, so his "39 year old skin" doesn't matter, because he is not aging in game. Then I referred to the fact he did have decent years in the current season simming in 2011 and 2012 for me. So, no need for your suggestion that I can find.

[RainMaker]

Sorry, I was confused. Thought you were talking about this happening with the MLB quickstart.

[Arles]

this (http://fantom1979.dyndns.org/ootp/50.jpg)anymore. :banghead:

/rant
In this example, I'm not sure he was actually released. It looks like he got "released" from the draft and then signed with the Padres and then got "released" from the DL and signed back with the Padres. Maybe I'm missing something, but it looks like the "released" transaction in history might also apply to DL and draft transactions.

[Alan T]

In this example, I'm not sure he was actually released. It looks like he got "released" from the draft and then signed with the Padres and then got "released" from the DL and signed back with the Padres. Maybe I'm missing something, but it looks like the "released" transaction in history might also apply to DL and draft transactions.


I've been doing a bunch of testing, and I'm seeing prospects getting released for no good reason in a fictional league. I actually opened a support ticket and supplied a league file that I can replicate this in every single time. So far haven't seen any response to the ticket, but I assume they've been busy with a bunch of issues.

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</td> <td align="left" valign="top" width="35%">SGW-789384</td></tr></tbody></table>

So you're not the only one seeing that happen unfortunately.

[Arles]

OK, it was confusing, but since the same team re-signed him in that example for both releases, I thought maybe it was just a reclassification transaction and not an actual release. If it's an actual release that goes to the FA pool then I agree it should be fixed.

[spleen1015]

I can't remember all of the details, but I think there was an issue in the past where prospects were getting released because of the roster size limit on the Rookie League teams.

I don't know if you guys are using Rookie Leagues or what. Just throwing it out there.

[heybrad]

Alright... I'm in!

[GrantDawg]

It is funny, both times I played this out, the 1993 NL West (where the Braves and the Giants fought neck and neck till the last weekend of the year, and both teams won over 100 games) was won by the Houston Astros. :)

[Passacaglia]

Sorry if this is not quite the right thread to ask this, but can anyone give me some tips for the best settings to choose to create a historical league in OOTP X? I'd like to start it as early as possible, but I also don't want to lose out on the fun factor. Other than that, I don't have any specifications.

[Balldog]

Just spent 2 hours setting up a Nippon Baseball League :)

[CrimsonFox]

my impression is that it still won't let me activate the game no matter when I try to do it, nor how often.
refund please?

[spleen1015]

my impression is that it still won't let me activate the game no matter when I try to do it, nor how often.
refund please?

Do you have some firewall software running or something like that? Maybe it is getting in you way some how?

Have you opened a ticket with OOTP Devs?

[spleen1015]

my impression is that it still won't let me activate the game no matter when I try to do it, nor how often.
refund please?

Offline Activation

How can I install the license for my OOTP Developments' game without an Internet connection? - Kayako eSupport Help Desk Software (http://support.ootpdevelopments.com/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=15&nav=0,1)

[BigPapi]

I don't think you read my post. There is no setting that will fix my SP examples above. A guy like Sanchez is broken because he gives up too many hits. Since he is already a high walk guy, this explodes his WHIP, which in turn explodes his ERA. If you turn down hits in the league settings, your leader board for batting hits will be out of whack and your top tier pitchers will have lower ERAs.


Website link? I would love to take a look. I have ran over 100 long term sims in the last 4 years (part of being a previous beta tester and on the "dream team") and I always run into the same stat abnormalities. I do not own a copy of v12, but as I pointed out, I see the same abnormalities in DanGarion's league as I did in my previous testing.






I am not asking for it to be exact. I pointed that out explicitly with my Jon Lester explanation. It should be in the same ballpark, with the players reflecting the same traits that they show in real life.




Its a bad thing that the players are not who they should be. Take my Tim Lincecum example. His W/L record and ERA are pretty close between the sim and real life. But the game had to reduce his WHIP by 10% and Increase his K/9 by 20% to accomplish that. At what point can you change the mechanics of who a player is, and still call him the same player? Lincecum was just one of nine pitchers I listed who's underlying stats are different from their real life stats for 2010. I am sure I could find more if I wanted to look deeper.

I have no problem if the game decides that a player will have a hot or cold year. I have a problem when a player is a fundamentally different player than they are in real life.

Well I read your post- and you are spot on. I would LOVE to love this game- but things you referenced- first round picks being released before they even get a chance to reach short season ball is ludicrous- and has been around for at least the last 5 years....If it's ok with others- more power to ya- but this is the kind of thing- the details, that OOTP has really NEVER gotten right- and I haven't played in 2 years....

I don't know why I keep checking threads like this; I guess every year I check back to see if it's been addressed- but it never has- or perhaps Markus has no idea how to fix it. What I find so ironic is, details like the Rule 5 draft are absolutely worthless in an environment where roster building is completely pointless to the AI. It's all just window dressing.

[CrimsonFox]

finally got it working. Took computer to a different network/apartment. It worked. I've seen programs like that before...that if the network or connection is a little slow, it just dies.
Maybe it needs to wait longer before it gives an error and keep trying.

[TigerFan1]

Well I read your post- and you are spot on. I would LOVE to love this game- but things you referenced- first round picks being released before they even get a chance to reach short season ball is ludicrous- and has been around for at least the last 5 years....If it's ok with others- more power to ya- but this is the kind of thing- the details, that OOTP has really NEVER gotten right- and I haven't played in 2 years....

I don't know why I keep checking threads like this; I guess every year I check back to see if it's been addressed- but it never has- or perhaps Markus has no idea how to fix it. What I find so ironic is, details like the Rule 5 draft are absolutely worthless in an environment where roster building is completely pointless to the AI. It's all just window dressing.

My thoughts exactly. I dont post much here and I haven't posted on the OOTP board in a long time but I used to love the game and devoted a lot of time to dynasty reports.

The thing that soured me on it was the roster management and that was 3 or 4 versions ago. I was hoping this would be corrected in this version but it appears once again to not be.

Having cpu controlled teams releasing first round picks a month after the draft just destroys the game for me.

Markus, fixing those issues will make the game much better than any combination of facegen and player cards ever could.

[Schmidty]

Well, things aren't sounding so good here. I was going to buy it and try to get the RWBL going again with Dan, but if this 12 is as buggy as it sounds, I'm not buying it yet.

[JonInMiddleGA]

http://estos.pinchestrolls.com/1/w1-i-don-t-always-test-my-code.jpg

[Rizon]

http://estos.pinchestrolls.com/1/w1-i-don-t-always-test-my-code.jpg

Thanks, he doesn't seem all in my face now.

[TroyF]

A lot of the things said here are things that have ticked me off for years, but I've found that I like the rest of the sim enough, I do some things to get around it.

1) I use fictional players. It's just not worth getting pissed off if Tulo is rated correctly. I run a fictional universe.

2) I make teams flush with cash. It makes FA harder and teams also seem to make less stupid decisions.

3) I turn off scouting and coaching.

4) I use modern day settings. I've found using other types of settings just screw me up.

When I want better accuracy, I use PureSim.

All of that said, I ran my 100 year league last night. It uses fictional players, starts in 1900 and uses the standard major league set up. I do not allow the league to evolve in anything other than hitting/pitching variances so the league stays exactly the same for the 100 year sim. I also set all markets to equal.

Here are the results:

1) I looked over the Rockies team (the team I'll take over) and over the 100 years they didn't release a first round pick once before they started out.

2) The Angels won the most WS with 7. The Rays, Cubs, Royals and Dodgers never won a title. (The Dodgers was interesting because they actually had the 3rd highest win percentage in league history and made the playoffs 32 times)

3) The career leader for HR had 845 (remember this used modern day settings througout)

4) I guess in honor of FOFC, the best player of all time was a guy by the name of Jeffrey Troughton. He finished his career with 4,230 hits, 791 HR, 9 MVP awards, 15 all star games, won a triple crown (hitting .413 with 59 HR and 148 RBI), and has the longest hitting streak in league history at 46 games.

He was picked by Boston with the 19th pick in round one. He played out his arbitration years and was signed by the Angels. He played his career out with the Angels.

5) One of the top pitchers was a guy by the name of Pedro Martinez. The best pitcher of all time was picked by the Mets and stayed with them his entire career. He racked up 338 wins (165 losses) and struck out over 4,700 batters to go with a career 2.85 ERA. He had the most dominant statistical line of any single year for a pitcher: 25-6, 1.66 ERA, 281 innings, 193 hits, 56 walks, 303k. Pedro Martinez did have a 25-2 year, but his other numbers were not as good.

6) The best reliever of all time was a Yankee who came up at 20 and pitched in the playoffs as a set up guy and stayed with the Yankees his entire career before retiring in his mid 40's.

7) There were 9 triple crown winners, none in the last 40 years.

8) League leader in caught stealing for a season was 28. For a career it was 176.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Thanks, he doesn't seem all in my face now.

Yeah, I found a more reasonably sized version the minute I saw the other one posted. Could see the dude's pores for cryin' out loud.

[lighthousekeeper]

http://estos.pinchestrolls.com/1/w1-i-don-t-always-test-my-code.jpg

thank you for this gem. this applies to pretty much every developer i work with

[GrantDawg]

Complain...complain....complain....

Whatever. I am having some fun with the game. This year seems to be much tighter than last. I am a couple of years to the MLB quickstart as the Braves, and it is being much tougher on me to play like I usually do (dump salary and heavily stock the farm). I did turn the trade level to hard, favor prospect. The out of the box settings are easier (which is normal for any game. Most people don't want much of a challenge). Most of the time, I never touch free agency unless it is to pick up a young, cheap backup. This year, I just have to because I just don't have the minor depth to replace players. Trying to stay on the cheap end has kept me from doing anything but signing replacement level players.

There is a problem with the early free agency (teams are too broke to spend big money on the top flight free agents). It is going to be fixed in the first major patch next week, but it does provide you a possible exploit early. I am finding, though, that players are demanding a lot from you and if you don't give it they'll sign for less money with the AI.

Anyway, tougher but fun.

[Big Fo]

I'm in the 2013 offseason and I just got crushed by the arbitration hearing results. Jason Heyward and Tommy Hanson (the best hitter and third best pitcher in the game right now) were awarded $21.6m and $20.6m respectively. Looks like I'm going to have to get rid of a few guys to get the payroll down some.

[GrantDawg]

Btw: This is the only baseball game Curt Schilling has gotten addicted to: The only baseball sim I've ever gotten addicted to... - OOTP Developments Forums (http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/ootp-12-general-discussions/210366-only-baseball-sim-ive-ever-gotten-addicted.html)

[lighthousekeeper]

wow - that is awesome. i definitely got a kick out of reading that thread.

[GrantDawg]

wow - that is awesome. i definitely got a kick out of reading that thread.


Yeah, hard not to "fan boy" all over him. I waited till I had confirmation to mention it over here, but sure enough he is posting tweets and responses to OOTP on his confirmed twitter.

I think it is cool his son got excited that he drafted a player from his sons high-school. He is definitely a fellow geek.

[lighthousekeeper]

He is definitely a fellow geek.

that's it - i'm trying out for the phillies now

[gstelmack]

Someone needs to invite him into FOOL ;-)

[Alan T]

Someone needs to invite him into FOOL ;-)


I'll get right on that! I'll kick Chief Rum out to make room for him :)

[gstelmack]

I'll get right on that! I'll kick Chief Rum out to make room for him :)

Or expand. I'll come back if you get Curt...

(well, that and I need to figure out how to open up whatever they closed off that stopped letting me export from work...)

[Alan T]

Or expand. I'll come back if you get Curt...

(well, that and I need to figure out how to open up whatever they closed off that stopped letting me export from work...)

All ootp exports in ootp11 and before were done via FTP, so that is probably what they blocked.

With OOOL in ootp12, for official online leagues, I don't recall if the exports are done via http or not, but I believe they were. (I ran a sniffer trace of a ton of stuff, so might be mixing it up in my head with other stuff). Non-OOOL leagues in ootp12 will still be ftp uploads though.

With non-OOOL leagues, you still have the option of exporting locally and emailing a file though (but adds a few extra steps of course which could get annoying to people)

[Ksyrup]

I decided to stay away from OOTP12 this year for a couple of reasons. One, the last 2-3 years, it has really become nothing more than a simulation machine for me. The only fun I was getting out of it was running historical simulations and reviewing the history. I couldn't get into the gameplay at all. And then I'd find all sort of issues with the results (I know I posted at length some of the problems, like guys with absurdly ridiculous BB/K rates, good/great starting pitchers dumped to the minors or released before the next season, the constant signing/release of minor league players, etc.), and even running the historical sims became more of a chore/exercise in nitpicking than fun.

I will say, though, that some of the issues pointed out in the historical sims are not real issues with the game, I agree with Markus on that. Unless you are going to sim every season as a replay, guys are not going to be 100% accurate for each year of their careers. As I recall, the game is going to apply some sort of aging/career arc to ach player, which can be further modified by injuries. So while Chipper Jones might start his career in a 100-year sim as "the" Chipper Jones, random variance and a few injuries can degrade him to the point where even the 3-year recalc isn't going to restore him to a HoF-level player. Especially if all you're doing is setting up a sim in 1901 and running for 100 years, you aren't going to get anything close to exact results. Of course, for me, the chance that a Chipper Jones would flame out in the minors while some guy you had to look up on BaseballReference.com would hit 400 HRs was all part of the fun of running the sim.

The other reason is I'm enjoying iOOTP so much I don't feel it's necessary to get OOTP, even though it's a totally different game and I play it completely differently.

[MizzouRah]

Btw: This is the only baseball game Curt Schilling has gotten addicted to: The only baseball sim I've ever gotten addicted to... - OOTP Developments Forums (http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/ootp-12-general-discussions/210366-only-baseball-sim-ive-ever-gotten-addicted.html)

His first game looks kinda cool..

Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning Gameplay Preview in High Definition – G4tv.com (http://www.g4tv.com/videos/53926/Kingdoms-of-Amalur-Reckoning-Gameplay-Preview/#video-53808)

[BYU 14]

His first game looks kinda cool..

Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning Gameplay Preview in High Definition – G4tv.com (http://www.g4tv.com/videos/53926/Kingdoms-of-Amalur-Reckoning-Gameplay-Preview/#video-53808)

I am thinking it will be pretty solid from the description. He is a big MMORPG guy so I know he will pull out all the stops.

[GrantDawg]

I am thinking it will be pretty solid from the description. He is a big MMORPG guy so I know he will pull out all the stops.


Yeah, me too. Having Salvatore as a part of the project doesn't hurt my interest, either.

[Balldog]

Ughhh...I started a 1970 league and Willie McCovey was a FA, I easily signed him. Then I offered Jim McGlothlin (1.5 stars) for trade and I was offered 21 year old Steve Garvey. WTF. I just added Steve Garvey and Willie McCovey to the Big Red Machine, time to try again that was waaaaaaaaaay to easy.

[GrantDawg]

Ughhh...I started a 1970 league and Willie McCovey was a FA, I easily signed him. Then I offered Jim McGlothlin (1.5 stars) for trade and I was offered 21 year old Steve Garvey. WTF. I just added Steve Garvey and Willie McCovey to the Big Red Machine, time to try again that was waaaaaaaaaay to easy.



Problem with any replay game. You know who Steve Gravey is. The computer doesn't. It is like Detroit knowing what they had in John Smoltz, and not trading a one-season rental in Doyle Alexander for him. You are always going to game the AI in replay settings. The AI is looking at right now, and you know the future.

[Balldog]

Problem with any replay game. You know who Steve Gravey is. The computer doesn't. It is like Detroit knowing what they had in John Smoltz, and not trading a one-season rental in Doyle Alexander for him. You are always going to game the AI in replay settings. The AI is looking at right now, and you know the future.

Yeah, I know but he was a 2.5 current with a 4.5 potential.

[DaddyTorgo]

LOL @ the fanboyism in that thread

[BYU 14]

LOL @ the fanboyism in that thread

Some of it is pretty funny, though it is pretty cool to have an ex major leaguer on the forum. Same thing would probably happen here if Joe Montana posted in the FOFC forum :)

[EagleFan]

Well, few people know that DaddyTorgo is actually Dan Marino.

[DaddyTorgo]

Well, few people know that DaddyTorgo is actually Dan Marino.

John Kruk actually. ;)

[MizzouRah]

Ughhh...I started a 1970 league and Willie McCovey was a FA, I easily signed him. Then I offered Jim McGlothlin (1.5 stars) for trade and I was offered 21 year old Steve Garvey. WTF. I just added Steve Garvey and Willie McCovey to the Big Red Machine, time to try again that was waaaaaaaaaay to easy.

Are you using, hard/neutral for your trade settings?

[GrantDawg]

If you haven't yet, read the tread just for his remembrance of Bob Horner:

First story.
Took all the rookies in Spring Training to dinner for Mexican food and proceeded to drink at least 205 Corona's during dinner. He was hilarious. He had just returned from Japan and was in spring training with the Orioles, think it was 89. He told about 200 stories and every one of them was hysterical, he was that guy that could make a non-funny story, funny.

Next story. The next day we had 1st day 'physicals'. Part of the physical was everyone had to run around the 4 fields of the complex. You had to do this for 20 minutes if I remember right, and had to complete at least 2 miles in the 20 minutes.

Horner was a no showhttp://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/images/smilies/001_smile.gif

He comes the next day, it's smoking hot, and puts on a mizuno heart attack top, the kind you wore to get hot fast and sweat.

He now has to run by himself.

Starts running, as he's completing the first lap he runs straight off the fields, into the clubhouse, to his locker, to his car, and drives off......

Shows up the next day, and tells this story.

"I got home and went to sleep at like 6pm. I was exhausted, slept through the night but once, I woke up, had to crap, I was so tired I crapped in bed, kicked it out and went back to sleep"

Bob Horner ladies and gentleman.

[GrantDawg]

Interesting how Curt grades out his own pitches (this was on the discussion of two pitch pitchers in the game):
Originally Posted by gehrig38 http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/ootp-12-general-discussions/210366-only-baseball-sim-ive-ever-gotten-addicted-post3164641.html#post3164641)
FWIW I would grade myself as a 2, 2.5 pitch pitcher. On my best nights, my most dominant, I was FB and Split. 125 pitches I'd throw 90-110 fastballs, the rest splits. I'd argue the most I threw my third pitch, which was either a slider or Curveball depending on the night, was 15-20% and that would be an insanely high number.

[fantom1979]

Really cool of Curt to let Markus use his name. Hopefully it grabs a few new customers for OOTP.

[Swaggs]

Bought this a couple weeks ago and have been loving it, but lord did I get reamed in the expansion draft. By my rough count, I lost 16 players, including 3 of my top 4 rookie draft picks (that probably cost me about $7-million to sign in the 5-6 months before the expansion draft).

Kind of an interest killer for me.

Aren't there any type of restrictions for the number of players that can be taken from one team?

[GrantDawg]

Bought this a couple weeks ago and have been loving it, but lord did I get reamed in the expansion draft. By my rough count, I lost 16 players, including 3 of my top 4 rookie draft picks (that probably cost me about $7-million to sign in the 5-6 months before the expansion draft).

Kind of an interest killer for me.

Aren't there any type of restrictions for the number of players that can be taken from one team?

No. Expansion drafts can screw you bad if you have a deep team. I really wish he'd change that.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

I know this isn't the exact right thread but I wanted a place to vent.

I had played about fifteen seasons on OOTP 11 and for some reason the game began to crash on me and would refuse to advance a day. I submitted a ticket to ootp on their support forum and received a reply from Gary. I was really pleased with the prompt reply. One month later, I did not hear anything back so I sent another email. It has now been a week and I still haven't heard anything back. I have had problems with other computer software before and sometimes the customer support is great and sometimes it is subpar, but I have never had an experience of not hearing anything from anybody for over five weeks.

Just a disappointing experience. At this point, I don't even care if the problem is unfixable, I would just like to know one way or the other. Starting a new career is something I dont want to attempt at this point because if there is something wrong with my league settings or my computer settings that is causing this, I dont want to end up wasting my time all over again.

I will still probably end up buying the next version of this game (ootp13) because of the promise of graphics, but like hell will i recommend this game to anybody else. /rant

[lighthousekeeper]

I know this isn't the exact right thread but I wanted a place to vent.

I had played about fifteen seasons on OOTP 11 and for some reason the game began to crash on me and would refuse to advance a day. I submitted a ticket to ootp on their support forum and received a reply from Gary. I was really pleased with the prompt reply. One month later, I did not hear anything back so I sent another email. It has now been a week and I still haven't heard anything back. I have had problems with other computer software before and sometimes the customer support is great and sometimes it is subpar, but I have never had an experience of not hearing anything from anybody for over five weeks.

Just a disappointing experience. At this point, I don't even care if the problem is unfixable, I would just like to know one way or the other. Starting a new career is something I dont want to attempt at this point because if there is something wrong with my league settings or my computer settings that is causing this, I dont want to end up wasting my time all over again.

I will still probably end up buying the next version of this game (ootp13) because of the promise of graphics, but like hell will i recommend this game to anybody else. /rant

you could try posting your league files on the ootp forums - someone other user could try downloading and running youre dat files to see if they get the same error - that would at least narrow down the problem to either corrupted dat files vs. a problem with your environment.

[miked]

Once a new version goes out, you have a better chance of getting head from Natalie Portman than getting official support on an old version.

[SnowMan]

So you're sayin' there's a chance...

[Peregrine]

<table id="post3177954" class="tborder" align="center" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr valign="top"><td class="alt1" id="td_post_3177954" style="border-right: 1px solid #232323"> So I made a quickstart league out of my World Baseball League I've been playing for quite a while.

This is the fictional league I have been running for most of OOTP 11 and now in 12 as well - I thought some others might be interested in checking it out.

The WBL is a 16 team league set in an alternate world where baseball is the dominant world sport. It started in 2010 and is currently in the offseason after the 2142 season. In addition, there is a smaller competing major league, the Canadian-American League (CAL) which doesn't have a draft and tends to have a much lower standard of play. Trades and free agency is currently enabled between the leagues - you can adjust that if you wish.

I have turned off expansion and team movement for the WBL in league evolution (though one team moved to Phoenix before I did this.) In my league, I am planning on expanding the WBL to 20 teams shortly - you can do whatever you want with it of course.

WBL teams

Mumbai Marauders
Shanghai Slaughter
Moscow Titans
Tokyo Thunder
London Guardians
New York Giants
Phoenix Border Cats (formerly Los Angeles Lancers)
Mexico City Quetzals
Johannesburg Sharks
Singapore Pirates
Sydney Waves
Indonesia Leopards
Santiago Adventure
Sao Paolo Warriors
Lagos Senators
Argentina Gauchos

The Canadian-American League started in 2051 - after the LA Lancers franchise moved away, disgruntled fans joined others who wanted a larger presence in world baseball of the US and Canada and formed an eight team league. Originally there was a Dallas team as well but it folded from lack of attendance after 6 seasons, replaced by Denver. Originally this league was blocked from trading with the WBL in an attempt to squash the upstart CAL, but after it had been up and running for a while trading was re-enabled. The CAL does not have an amateur draft or any minor leagues. Good players tend to sign with teams in the WBL when they become free agents, and sometimes worn out players from the WBL go down to the CAL to have a few last good seasons.

Vancouver Foresters
Miami Cyclones
Chicago White Sox
Toronto Needles
Denver Mountains
San Francisco Sails
Los Angeles Knights
Atlanta Savages

With so much history, the file for this league is very large - over 1 GB. Let me know if you have any further questions.

Download (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33190869/WBL.rar)
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px solid #232323; border-top: 0px"> http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/images/statusicon/user_online.gif http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/report.php?p=3177954) </td> <td class="alt1" style="border: 1px solid #232323; border-left: 0px; border-top: 0px" align="right"> http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/images/buttons/edit.gif (http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=3177954)</td></tr></tbody></table>

[Balldog]

Good lord, I made an off the cuff remark on the OOTP forums about how my support ticket has not been answered in a month and you would've thought I raped someone's sister or something. Wow.

[Scoobz0202]

Lol. I looked up what you were talking about, Balldog. A guy seriously tried to say it was YOUR fault that your ticket didn't get a response. That is awesome.

[Balldog]

Yeah, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed.

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

They would almost be better off not having a support system. At least this way nobody would be under the delusion that a possible solution would be forthcoming.

[CleBrownsfan]

OOTP 12.5 (http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/ootp-12-general-discussions/214308-ootp-12-5-released-wednesday-09-28-a.html) is releasing today:

Hey guys,

we will release OOTP 12.5 tomorrow if all goes well. Here is the current changelist:

- Added an "Offseason Summary" to the Offseason Center which lists players added/lost during the offseason for each team, along with WAR and team leaderboard for WAR added.
- Added a "GM Transactions History" section to the Manager History screen. It lists all major transactions made for the teams you were in charge of.
- Added a "Preseason Predictions Report", listing projected standings and a top 10 hitters & pitchers list for each sub-league. It gets generated on the first day of Spring Training and is available from both the league menu or the Spring Training screen.
- Added functions to add states and edit state names in the nations editor
- Decreased effect on fan interest of players singining/leaving
- Tweaked formula that determines FA compensation status to make the number of Type A & B FA's more realistic
- Added "FA type" as a possible column to sortable player lists. For this to show up, the user has to delete his \tables folder inside the OOTP 12 user data folder (i.e. My Documents\ OOTP Developments\OOTP 12\)
- First year player draftees no longer change their bonus demand after being drafted unless they are drafted far higher than expected.
- Improved roster AI
- Added the option to disable delayed injury diagnosis
- OOTP will load and display news from the OOTP Developments server on startup (can be disabled in preferences dialog)
- OOTP 12 is now tracking how you play the game, i.e. which screens you visit most frequently (disabled by default, please enable it because it will help us to improve OOTP)
- Fixed several bugs and minor issues

These changes apply to your current games without problems. However, the GM history only tracks transactions going forward and none from the past since earlier versions did not save the data necessary.

This will be the last update for OOTP 12, we will shift to the OOTP 13 development after its release.

Cheers,
Markus

[CrimsonFox]

Have they figured out why I keep coming in last?

[gstelmack]

Have they figured out why I keep coming in last?

Yes, you suck.

You're welcome for the help.

:devil: