2011 NFL Training Camp/Preseason Thread

[Logan]

Figured we could use a new thread to look ahead and put the lockout fully behind us.

Lions rookie RB Mikel Leshoure tore his achilles today and is out for the season.

Fellow rookie 1st rounder Prince Amukamara broke his foot over the weekend and is out for 8-10 weeks.

[BillJasper]

Miami completely pissed away their off-season for a ticket in the Andrew Luck sweepstakes.

[Lathum]

Did something change with Prince, I saw he would miss 2 months.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

If anybody's hanging out at home this afternoon, the entire Hard Knocks: Kansas City Chiefs series is being shown on NFL network starting at 2:00 PM EDT.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Lions rookie RB Mikel Leshoure tore his achilles today and is out for the season.

This hurts...

Maybe Doak Walker's pal Ricky Williams could be a replacement?

[BillJasper]

This hurts...

Maybe Doak Walker's pal Ricky Williams could be a replacement?

Ricky already signed with the Ravens.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Ricky already signed with the Ravens.

Dammit.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Watching the Hard Knocks marathon has reminded me how far the Chiefs and their talent level has come since Pioli took over as GM. Holy moly.

[sabotai]

Did something change with Prince, I saw he would miss 2 months.

No, he's still listed as 8-10 weeks.

[Logan]

Sorry about that, edited the post.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Sorry about that, edited the post.

Technically, Leshoure was picked in the 2nd, so that would also negate your referring to Amukamara as a "fellow 1st rounder." Edit #2? :popcorn:

[Logan]

Technically, Leshoure was picked in the 2nd, so that would also negate your referring to Amukamara as a "fellow 1st rounder." Edit #2? :popcorn:

Insert the comma between "rookie" and "1st" if it helps you.

[TLK]

Good stuff about Randy Moss:


Off the field: Still a tough time for owner Robert Kraft, mourning the death of his wife, Myra. But he got a boost when, sitting shiva several days after her death (shiva is the Jewish mourning period when friends and family come to the home of the survivors and share fellowship), he looked up and who walks through the door? Randy Moss. He flew up from Florida for one reason: to tell the Patriots owner how highly he regarded Myra Kraft.

"Randy is a good friend of mine,'' said Wilfork. "He called me and said, 'Vince, I'm nervous about coming up. But I want to come. I shared a bond with her. I really want to be there.' Guys who don't know Randy, they'll say he's arrogant. But if he could have retired here, he would have. He came here for one reason and one reason only: He wanted to support the Kraft family.''

When Moss signed with the Patriots, Kraft brought him into his office and told him if he played for the Patriots, he'd always be in the Patriot family. So when he opened Moss' sympathy card, he knew Moss remembered the family speech. Moss signed his sympathy card: "Randy Moss Kraft.''

One other note: Kraft does not wear rings or most other jewelry -- except for one thing. He wears a silver circular pendant with a photo of he and his wife on their wedding day and the words "Cherish Love'' engraved on the back. It was a gift from the Wilforks when they learned Myra Kraft had cancer.

"Mr. Kraft always liked it,'' said Bianca Wilfork. "When he told us Myra was sick last year, we called our jeweler and had it made. It had a lot of significance, because he always told us, 'Always keep what's important close to you.' You can have a million dollars, but if you don't have love, you're broke.''


SI Link (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/08/08/tour/index.html#ixzz1UXJIiHom)

[Ksyrup]

Just catching up from a weekend at the softball field, and I don't really care much about Hall of Fame stuff to begin with, but I have to ask... who the hell did the sculptor think he was sculpting?! It looks like Troy Aikman! Holy crap is that bad.

http://www.sportsgrid.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Screen-shot-2011-08-07-at-10.30.59-AM.png

[Ksyrup]

Lions signed Jerome Harrison and Mike Bell, who were traded for each other last year.

[Blackadar]

Just catching up from a weekend at the softball field, and I don't really care much about Hall of Fame stuff to begin with, but I have to ask... who the hell did the sculptor think he was sculpting?! It looks like Troy Aikman! Holy crap is that bad.

http://www.sportsgrid.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Screen-shot-2011-08-07-at-10.30.59-AM.png

It does look like Troy Aikman.

Really, that's supposed to be Deion?

[Ksyrup]

Apparently.

[spleen1015]

It looks like him to me. With the Bronze, I think the shadows effect the way it looks from certain angles. I saw a side view of it some where and it looks like him.

[Ksyrup]

The smile is not his at all, and the eyes are nothing like his. He's got Aikman's eyes, that's the major problem. His smile is ALWAYS wider than that, and his bottom lip comes down more, kinda like the Joker in a way.

Look at the eyes:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4099/4866635400_fd6bccc6a3.jpg

[Passacaglia]

Power of suggestion -- I hadn't seen it before, and didn't know who it was supposed to be, and now I can't shake thinking that it's Troy Aikman.

[Dr. Sak]

Just catching up from a weekend at the softball field, and I don't really care much about Hall of Fame stuff to begin with, but I have to ask... who the hell did the sculptor think he was sculpting?! It looks like Troy Aikman! Holy crap is that bad.

http://www.sportsgrid.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Screen-shot-2011-08-07-at-10.30.59-AM.png

Looks like vampire Deion.

[stevew]

All of these stories about the leadership of Tom Brady. The redemption of Albert Haynesworth. The wacky hijinks of Chad Ochocinco....

This is why I love football so much.

[stevew]

And the Deion sculpture looks like drunken stoned Dan Marino to me.

[DeToxRox]

Too lazy to search for the Free Agency thread but the Eagles signed Steve Smith of the Gmen. Awesome signing for Philly. Smith is gonna' start the year on PUP but he's a great 3rd option there.

[RedKingGold]

I'm going to the Eagles-Ravens game tomorrow night. Pretty sure the crowd's going to be insane.

[DeToxRox]

Russell Okung was just carted off the field.

[BillJasper]

Did they change intentional grounding again? I thought you were allowed to throw the ball away if you were outside the 'tackle box'. Yet they flagged Jackson for it in the Seahawks-Chargers game.

[DaddyTorgo]

Pats looking good in preseason.

Haha.

Mallet looked good actually...for a rook. Hoyer's great. Ridley looks like an actual find at RB, and Taylor Price is a stud WR.

[sabotai]

Did they change intentional grounding again? I thought you were allowed to throw the ball away if you were outside the 'tackle box'. Yet they flagged Jackson for it in the Seahawks-Chargers game.

If it's the play I remember seeing, the bell didn't make it to the line of scrimmage.

[Julio Riddols]

If it's the play I remember seeing, the bell didn't make it to the line of scrimmage.

Doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement of Jackson.

[spleen1015]

That pass was tipped. I think it would have made it to the line of scrimmage if it wasn't.

[spleen1015]

Pats looking good in preseason.

Haha.

Mallet looked good actually...for a rook. Hoyer's great. Ridley looks like an actual find at RB, and Taylor Price is a stud WR.

Hi, jb!

[DaddyTorgo]

Hi, jb!

That was the obvious intent of my post ;)

[stevew]

Lee Evans to the Ravens. He's possibly done, but it just shows how cheap the Bills are. Gotta save that 5 million bucks.

[PackerFanatic]

Obama was given a share of Packers stock today at their White House visit. First thing he said after that, "Now that I am owner, I think we will need to work out a trade to get Rodgers down to the Bears."

Hilarious.

[Galaxy]

Lee Evans to the Ravens. He's possibly done, but it just shows how cheap the Bills are. Gotta save that 5 million bucks.

He'll actually have a quarterback and a good team that wants to win. The Bills have to worst franchise in pro sports. Ralph Wilson needs to go soon.

[Arles]

Obama was given a share of Packers stock today at their White House visit. First thing he said after that, "Now that I am owner, I think we will need to work out a trade to get Rodgers down to the Bears."

Hilarious.
Ringing endorsement of Cutler...

[Tigercat]

The Saints, the experts at finding small school gems the past few years, might have found another one. Joseph Morgan from small Walsh University in Ohio went undrafted, and there was absolutely no pub on him before this game. But out of nowhere he started as punt returner today, and he looks electric. Already has a punt return for a TD and has shown great speed and instincts for it. If he has halfway decent hands to be an emergency WR, he has a decent chance to make the team as Reggie's PR replacement.

[BillJasper]

The Saints, the experts at finding small school gems the past few years, might have found another one. Joseph Morgan from small Walsh University in Ohio went undrafted, and there was absolutely no pub on him before this game. But out of nowhere he started as punt returner today, and he looks electric. Already has a punt return for a TD and has shown great speed and instincts for it. If he has halfway decent hands to be an emergency WR, he has a decent chance to make the team as Reggie's PR replacement.

Thought that was what they brought Darren Sproles for?

[Tigercat]

Thought that was what they brought Darren Sproles for?

Sproles is the offensive replacement for Bush. Not a shoe in to be a starting returner.

[BillJasper]

Andy Dalton had a rough night, including get tackled by his head by Suh. Welcome to the NFL kid.

And of course, Henne went 1-5 for 10 yards vs. the Falcons first string defense.

[Izulde]

And of course, Henne went 1-5 for 10 yards vs. the Falcons first string defense.

:rolleyes:

[rowech]

Bengals are worse than I could have imagined. They have 0 depth to their team and there starter aren't all that great in most places. I stand by a statement I made earlier that there are only two chances on their schedule to win a game.

[Dutch]

The Bucs looked good in Kansas City last night.

Josh Freeman looked pretty good, continues to play smart (doesn't rush his throws but moves in the pocket to make time), but ended up running on a couple of occassions when it looked like he had guys wide open. Since he's 6'5", it's really about getting that game-time awareness back.

2nd string QB Josh Johnson continues to improve. He's not Michael Vick, but I think when he's in his prime, he'll play a game similiar to Vick's game back in Atlanta. Good arm, great mobility, probably the wrong system though as Tampa basically works Freeman as a classic dropback QB.

The Bucs WR's are a great corp of receivers, but they lack that ball-possession guy. Insert Kellen Winslow (he didn't play last night) and suddenly we'll have that again.

The Defense looks FAST. They were all over every play. Breaking down the Chief's line at will, big hits from their secondary, swarmed to the ball-carriers....the 3rd and 4th string teams were dropping late-hits/stupid-hits at the end of the game which showcased their enthusiasm...but not their ability to play the game of football.

Barring a couple of illegal shifts and one empty backfield that left Josh Johnson (with ball outstretched to hand-off) doing a 180 into a swarm of angry Chief lineman and LB's----the Bucs looked sharp and ready to play. Very positive sign for the 1st pre-season action.

Next up, The New England Patriots...I think they will be more prepared than the Chiefs, but that's just a hunch. :) I'm taking my wife to that game...excluding the predicted 35,000 Pats fans, I can't wait.

[spleen1015]

Rex Grossman.


MVP.

[DeToxRox]

I stand by the Niners are going to be the worst team in the NFL. Their OL played nearly the entire first half and gave up five sacks. Yes the Saints blitzed a lot but that is just insane. That offense is flat out awful.

[BillJasper]

:rolleyes:

Don't 'rolleyes' at me... I'm a huge Dolphins fan. And by all accounts last night was painful. :lol:

[kingfc22]

And Alex Smith still sucks...when will this franchise learn that!!!!! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[Dutch]

And Alex Smith still sucks...when will this franchise learn that!!!!! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Or better yet, when is Alex Smith going to start living up to his wildly amazing potential and start producing? And no, I'm not suggesting he's great simply because my 15-team FF league starts 2 QB's and I landed this schlub....or....ok, I guess maybe I am. :(

[MacroGuru]

I don't know why I am watching the damn Bills game...trading Lee Evans....grr..

I do like the look of their white jerseys

[Radii]

I'm watching the Panthers, only b/c I am sick and just laying around anyway. Clausen with a pick 6 and he's been booed twice in the first 5 minutes. GO PANTHERS.

[Thomkal]

watching the Panthers is only going to make you feel sicker Radii as we both know sadly. :( I hope you feel better soon though-don't push yourself to do the FBCB file tomorrow if you are not feeling better :)

[Julio Riddols]

I'd have to say I am impressed by Cam Newton so far.. He moves really well in the pocket and has been accurate and made decent decisions. He hasn't completed a high percentage, but the blocking hasn't been great. His only bad throw so far has been that miss to Edwards that just happened. When he talks, he sounds kind of retarded, but on the field he seems to be legit so far.

[Radii]

I'd have to say I am impressed by Cam Newton so far.. He moves really well in the pocket and has been accurate and made decent decisions. He hasn't completed a high percentage, but the blocking hasn't been great. His only bad throw so far has been that miss to Edwards that just happened. When he talks, he sounds kind of retarded, but on the field he seems to be legit so far.

Completely agree. I'm pleasantly surprised so far. When the pocket has collapsed he's handled it pretty well, he's thrown into some very very tight spaces a couple times but that's really my biggest complaint, not bad at all.

[bhlloy]

So am I the only one not outraged by the fine given to Suh? I think he's an awesome player but really, trying to twist a QB's head from his body is going to be a big fine in today's NFL and it could have been really dangerous.

Now the Cutler fine last year was completely ridiculous and unjustified. But this one, not so much IMO.

[rowech]

So am I the only one not outraged by the fine given to Suh? I think he's an awesome player but really, trying to twist a QB's head from his body is going to be a big fine in today's NFL and it could have been really dangerous.

Now the Cutler fine last year was completely ridiculous and unjustified. But this one, not so much IMO.

Agreed. I look at that play against Dalton and I can't understand why he's upset. The play had been over for five seconds.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Two things coming out from a GQ article with Michael Vick-

He was the victim when the whole dogfighting ring was exposed.
Vick on dogfighting in GQ: ‘People act like it’s some crazy thing they never heard of…’ - Shutdown Corner - NFL*Blog - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Vick-on-dogfighting-in-GQ-8216-People-act-lik?urn=nfl-wp5294)

...and he wanted to play somewhere like Cincinnati or Buffalo, where he could have possibly started immediately, rather than Philadelphia. Alleged that Roger Goodell pushed him towards Philadelphia.
Vick stands by decision to come to Eagles - NFL - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-eagles-vick)

[Lathum]

Two things coming out from a GQ article with Michael Vick-

He was the victim when the whole dogfighting ring was exposed.
Vick on dogfighting in GQ: ‘People act like it’s some crazy thing they never heard of…’ - Shutdown Corner - NFL*Blog - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Vick-on-dogfighting-in-GQ-8216-People-act-lik?urn=nfl-wp5294)



Not surprising at all. I never thought Vick was reformed or he felt bad about what he did, he was only sorry he got caught. He was smart enough, probably with help from the NFL, to hire the right people to make him marketable again.

Dynamic talent on the field, but a guy I will never root for to succeed.

[Logan]

Two things coming out from a GQ article with Michael Vick-

He was the victim when the whole dogfighting ring was exposed.
Vick on dogfighting in GQ: ‘People act like it’s some crazy thing they never heard of…’ - Shutdown Corner - NFL*Blog - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Vick-on-dogfighting-in-GQ-8216-People-act-lik?urn=nfl-wp5294)

...and he wanted to play somewhere like Cincinnati or Buffalo, where he could have possibly started immediately, rather than Philadelphia. Alleged that Roger Goodell pushed him towards Philadelphia.
Vick stands by decision to come to Eagles - NFL - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-eagles-vick)

I've been fighting about the second issue on another board...I'm pointing to bad journalism. The interviewer put his own words about Goodell and others influencing his decision in front of a quote by Vick saying "they put me in the right situation." I highly doubt that in a whole interview with Vick, he never directly said something like "Goodell thought it was a better idea for me to go to Philly" if that was truly the case.

[stevew]

Pryor in the supplemental draft, BUT he's suspended for games 1-5 this year. That will show him.

Probably worth a 4th rounder for a team like Buffalo, although he probably won't touch the field this year.

[JPhillips]

He won't do it, but it would help his development to go to Canada and play for a year.

[Travis]

I'm not so sure about that. The CFL is already 1/3 of the way through the season up here. By the time he got up to speed on the rule differences and style of play/playbook it'd likely be too late in the season for him to get on the field unless he was on a team where the starting QB got hurt or a team was already eliminated from the playoff picture.

[DaddyTorgo]

Not surprising at all. I never thought Vick was reformed or he felt bad about what he did, he was only sorry he got caught. He was smart enough, probably with help from the NFL, to hire the right people to make him marketable again.

Dynamic talent on the field, but a guy I will never root for to succeed.

Yep. Dirtbag of a human being.

[Lathum]

I know it is preseason, but Pats are looking wicked awesome.

[DaddyTorgo]

Catching up on the game on my DVR...TB-OCHO...TD!

[DaddyTorgo]

Total Yds (4:35 left in 1st)

Pats: 110
Bucs: 9

[bhlloy]

Dream team defense not looking so dreamy so far

[Groundhog]

vick looking good in preseason

[MacroGuru]

Probably worth a 4th rounder for a team like Buffalo, although he probably won't touch the field this year.

Don't want him....I would rather keep it where we are at. To me, he isn't worth a 7th...

[JPhillips]

I'm not so sure about that. The CFL is already 1/3 of the way through the season up here. By the time he got up to speed on the rule differences and style of play/playbook it'd likely be too late in the season for him to get on the field unless he was on a team where the starting QB got hurt or a team was already eliminated from the playoff picture.

Yeah, it's probably too late for that. I just think he needs to play rather than sit on a bench. If he could have gotten to an NFL team early enough to have a training camp that would have helped. He's just nowhere near ready to start in the NFL IMO.

[Suburban Rhythm]

vick looking good in preseason

Worst play of the preseason so far was the Polamalu interception.
I am sure Tomlin and Reid loved seeing Polamalu try returning an INT in a preseason game, only to have his knees taken out....by Vick, diving head first for the tackle.

[spleen1015]

All of this Philadelphia 'Dream Team' bull shit is getting on my nerves.

You have the jackass Vince Young referencing them as the Dream Team and now no one can leave it alone.

The Eagles players, coaches, etc have said several times they don't look at it that way.

Get off it already. Fuck.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

More like a "Cream" Team. That's kinda what all Eagles fans did with each signing...

[stevew]

Going to the Browns/Lions game tonight. Hoping that MDonkey Kong hurts someone.

[spleen1015]

Going to the Browns/Lions game tonight. Hoping that MDonkey Kong hurts someone.

:D

Colts/Redskins for me tonight. I am looking forward to the showdown between All Pro QBs John Beck and Curtis Painter. Should be a shootout!

[Matthean]

All of this Philadelphia 'Dream Team' bull shit is getting on my nerves.

You have the jackass Vince Young referencing them as the Dream Team and now no one can leave it alone.

The Eagles players, coaches, etc have said several times they don't look at it that way.

Get off it already. Fuck.

Somebody should show him a pick of the Heat losing the NBA finals.

[DeToxRox]

So Jonathan Baldwin may be out 6-8 weeks after fracturing his wrist in a locker room brawl with Thomas Jones. Awesome of Baldwin to dispel all the pre draft concerns surrounding him.

[Big Fo]

I know I am taking too much from this because the preseason doesn't really matter and the Panthers will likely be a bad team, but I dreading watching the Dolphins slightly less than I was an hour and a half ago.

Reggie Bush had some nice moments, even going up the middle and breaking some tackles. Chad Henne has not made me cringe.

[MacroGuru]

Watching the Redskins game, wanted to see how John Beck did...14/17 for 140 yds and they scored on all 4 series he was....TD,FG,FG,FG

Not a Redskins fan, just interested in this QB drama in DC.

[Dutch]

Total Yds (4:35 left in 1st)

Pats: 110
Bucs: 9

I was supposed to be at that game (with probably 40K ex-Pats) but was holed up in Baltimore with bad weather until 3AM this morning...glad I missed it.

[spleen1015]

Watching the Redskins game, wanted to see how John Beck did...14/17 for 140 yds and they scored on all 4 series he was....TD,FG,FG,FG

Not a Redskins fan, just interested in this QB drama in DC.

Beck was kinda of meh. He didn't throw any passes down the field. He got good YAC because the Colts couldn't tackle for shit. Helu looked really good tonight.

[Izulde]

Well that's irritating. I've been waiting weeks for the Dolphins training camp postcard on SI's website. It finally goes up... and it's about LAST YEAR'S team.

So annoying. :mad:

[DeToxRox]

Love Chad. Still amazed how many people don't like the guy.

Ochocinco offers to reimburse Foster if he’s fined
Posted by Michael David Smith on August 20, 2011, 8:18 AM EDT
Jacksonville Jaguars v New England Patriots Getty Images

In the first quarter of Thursday night’s preseason game, Buccaneers linebacker Mason Foster leveled Patriots receiver Chad Ochocinco with a shot to the head. Foster was called for unnecessary roughness and will likely be fined.

But Ochocinco doesn’t think any fine should come. And he feels so strongly about it that he’s offering to pay the fine himself.

In a message on Twitter directed to Foster, Ochocinco wrote, “great hit last night,if u’re fined I’ll reimburse u boss.That’s the way the game should b played.”

Foster replied, “thanks Bruh I appreciate it, good luck to you too.”

I don’t know if Ochocinco’s offer was serious, and I don’t think the NFL would allow such a reimbursement, but it’s a nice gesture from Ochocinco, who doesn’t want the Bucs’ rookie linebacker to lose money on his first paycheck.

[MacroGuru]

Love Chad. Still amazed how many people don't like the guy.

I am a big fan of Chad and he will figure out a way to pay it if he is fined...be it, he tosses the guy the cash under the table.

[rowech]

Love Chad. Still amazed how many people don't like the guy.

Give it time...give it time. When he starts dropping easy passes you'll start thinking about it. When he becomes a distraction through the season you'll start thinking about it. He will be the biggest test of the New England system.

[BillJasper]

Is Todd Haley ready to put on a skirt now?

[Matthean]

Give it time...give it time. When he starts dropping easy passes you'll start thinking about it. When he becomes a distraction through the season you'll start thinking about it. He will be the biggest test of the New England system.

Bigger than Haynesworth, or even Moss since you didn't say this year?

[stevew]

It's such a pain going out to the stadium. Sat in traffic for probably 50 minutes to go 4 miles in Cleveland. Then the concessions are so expensive. Experience of sitting home sprawled out on my couch is so much better than sitting 2 inches away from a stranger. I'd basically want an first row aisle seat or it's just not worth leaving the house.

[Honolulu_Blue]

It's such a pain going out to the stadium. Sat in traffic for probably 50 minutes to go 4 miles in Cleveland. Then the concessions are so expensive. Experience of sitting home sprawled out on my couch is so much better than sitting 2 inches away from a stranger. I'd basically want an first row aisle seat or it's just not worth leaving the house.

Yeah, but you got to see another thrilling chapter of The Great Lakes Claasic live!

[molson]

Give it time...give it time. When he starts dropping easy passes you'll start thinking about it. When he becomes a distraction through the season you'll start thinking about it. He will be the biggest test of the New England system.

I think expectations are clearly in check, and everyone would be happy with one so-so honeymoon period season, and it's no big deal if we didn't even get that. I mean, it's not like he's going to be distracting the team by demanding trades all the time, isn't that really his biggest sin of the past? (and if he started that kind of whining, he'd be unloaded immediately ala Moss last year)

[stevew]

Yeah, but you got to see another thrilling chapter of The Great Lakes Claasic live!

(bad joke alert)

Ok HOMES.

[DeToxRox]

According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, the Cardinals are set to sign Larry Fitzgerald to an eight-year, $120 million contract extension that includes close to $50 million guaranteed.

[Thomkal]

According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, the Cardinals are set to sign Larry Fitzgerald to an eight-year, $120 million contract extension that includes close to $50 million guaranteed.

And there was much rejoicing! well by me at least. I had heard they were getting closer and Fitz has a Sept 1 deadline. I thought given who the owners are there, they might screw this up somehow and they would be forced to trade him during the season or just let him hit free agency, but thankfully saner heads prevailed. Now if my beloved Cards had a real #2 WR for Kolb to throw to as well instead of Chansi Stuckey and a bunch of young guys who haven't proven yet they can do the job...

[DaddyTorgo]

8yrs 120mil for a WR??

Yikes.

[BillJasper]

8yrs 120mil for a WR??

Yikes.

Averaging fifteen million dollars a year annually, I agree. The guys good, I'm just not sure he's that good.

[DeToxRox]

So can we discuss how Brady Quinn is showing something of a pulse and most likely will supplant Tebow as the #2 in Denver?

[BillJasper]

So can we discuss how Brady Quinn is showing something of a pulse and most likely will supplant Tebow as the #2 in Denver?

Does he have a future in Denver at the QB position? If Orton has a good year, it'll be tough to let him walk as a free agent. Has anyone inside the Broncos' organization discussed moving Tebow to another position?

[Thomkal]

And of course now that the Cards have traded Hightower to Washington, rookie RB Ryan Williams ruptures a tendon and is out for the season, leaving the oft-injured Beanie Wells as the starter. Just great.

[stevew]

Another observation from the game last night. After a team scores, you easily have 7 or so minutes to use the restroom, refill on nachos or whatever. The kickoff play is totally dead. They may as well kill it off.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And of course now that the Cards have traded Hightower to Washington, rookie RB Ryan Williams ruptures a tendon and is out for the season, leaving the oft-injured Beanie Wells as the starter. Just great.

Oof.

[DaddyTorgo]

Another observation from the game last night. After a team scores, you easily have 7 or so minutes to use the restroom, refill on nachos or whatever. The kickoff play is totally dead. They may as well kill it off.

This. At this point I kinda wish they just would. Just give the team the ball at the 20 already, instead of going thru with the farce.

[stevew]

The hits on the kicks that were actually returned seemed especially brutal as well.

[Rizon]

Dang, it's usually the Jokeland fans shooting people up.

Two People Shot Outside Candlestick Park - News Story - KTVU San Francisco (http://www.ktvu.com/news/28928528/detail.html)

SAN FRANCISCO -- A man wearing a shirt slamming the San Francisco 49ers was seriously wounded as gunfire erupted in the parking lot after the team's NFL preseason game, while another man sustained lesser injuries in an earlier shooting, police said.

[Dutch]

Remind me never to make fun of Alex Smith.

[molson]

Touchback percentage, 2010 regular season: 16.4 percent (416 touchbacks, 2,539 kickoffs).

Touchback percentage, 2011 preseason: 33.9 percent (43 touchbacks, 127 kickoffs in 15 games). (through 9/15).

I don't think returns are "dead" yet when they still happen on 66% of kickoffs (and I think that number will increase a bit in the regular season when more returners will run out of the end zone, and kicks don't travel as far when the weather gets colder). But twice as often is pretty significant. I'd say split the difference and kick off from the 33, but the NFL will never change a rule during a season, or even after the pre-season. And I doubt they'll even admit they're wrong and change it next year. That's just not how they do things. (And of course, the new rule is the one that was in place from 1974 to 1993, so this isn't necessarily all that drastic.)

[kingfc22]

And of course, the new rule is the one that was in place from 1974 to 1993, so this isn't necessarily all that drastic.

Only difference is that players in 2011 are much more physically advanced than that time period so kicking it into the end zone 5 yds deep or more is fairly easy for these guys. Pretty much pointless to stick around to watch a kickoff anymore like stevew said.

[molson]

Only difference is that players in 2011 are much more physically advanced than that time period so kicking it into the end zone 5 yds deep or more is fairly easy for these guys. Pretty much pointless to stick around to watch a kickoff anymore like stevew said.

Pointless to stick around and see something that only happens 66% of the time? That seems a little dramatic.

And sure, the kicking game as changed a lot over the years, but I'd argue in changed a lot more between 1974 and 1993 than it has from 1993 to now. But moving the kickoff back and forth 5 years in the only part of that that everyone freaks out over (and not for example, that getting the ball inside the 35 yard line is almost a guaranteed 3 points now).

Edit: In 1993, the last year teams kicked from the 35 yard line, there were returns on 73% of kickoffs, and touchbacks the other 27% of the time. So we have 66% returns in the 2011 pre-season (a number likely to go up as the season goes on), v. 72% in 1993....is that really such a huge difference?

Historical, statistical look at kickoffs - Stats & Info Blog - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/17417/historical-statistical-look-at-kickoffs)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Touchback percentage, 2010 regular season: 16.4 percent (416 touchbacks, 2,539 kickoffs).

Touchback percentage, 2011 preseason: 33.9 percent (43 touchbacks, 127 kickoffs in 15 games). (through 9/15).

I don't think returns are "dead" yet when they still happen on 66% of kickoffs (and I think that number will increase a bit in the regular season when more returners will run out of the end zone, and kicks don't travel as far when the weather gets colder). But twice as often is pretty significant. I'd say split the difference and kick off from the 33, but the NFL will never change a rule during a season, or even after the pre-season. And I doubt they'll even admit they're wrong and change it next year. That's just not how they do things. (And of course, the new rule is the one that was in place from 1974 to 1993, so this isn't necessarily all that drastic.)

FWIW.....the percentage in the regular season will likely move into the 40-45% range. Most coaches are telling their kickers to kick some short ones just to get a feel for how returns will happen with the new rules. Once we get to the regular season, they're going to just tell them to kick it through the end zone.

[DaddyTorgo]

FWIW.....the percentage in the regular season will likely move into the 40-45% range. Most coaches are telling their kickers to kick some short ones just to get a feel for how returns will happen with the new rules. Once we get to the regular season, they're going to just tell them to kick it through the end zone.

Agreed.

[molson]

FWIW.....the percentage in the regular season will likely move into the 40-45% range. Most coaches are telling their kickers to kick some short ones just to get a feel for how returns will happen with the new rules. Once we get to the regular season, they're going to just tell them to kick it through the end zone.

That could be true, and I don't think the change is necessarily going to be a good thing - I'm still just amused at the exaggerated hysteria. ("No reason to watch for something that's only going to happen 60% of the time") There's going to be a lot less kick returns. But they're not going away completely.

[B & B]

How many times do channels cut to commercial before the kickoff only to go BACK TO MORE COMMERCIALS immediately after kickoff and before the offense takes the field?

A lot.

Like I could go to the store and get a gallon of milk and miss nothing.

:banghead:

[DaddyTorgo]

How many times do channels cut to commercial before the kickoff only to go BACK TO MORE COMMERCIALS immediately after kickoff and before the offense takes the field?

A lot.

Like I could go to the store and get a gallon of milk and miss nothing.

:banghead:

depending on how far away the store is, this is quite possible

[Commo_Soldier]

FWIW.....the percentage in the regular season will likely move into the 40-45% range. Most coaches are telling their kickers to kick some short ones just to get a feel for how returns will happen with the new rules. Once we get to the regular season, they're going to just tell them to kick it through the end zone.

Plus I'm guessing they're telling them to run them out as well, leading to less touchbacks. Last nights Vikings / Seahawks game had 7 kickoffs, 4 of which started at the 15 or worse. I just don't see coaches willing to risk the field position in the regular season if they don't have a stellar return guy. I could easily foresee less than 50% of kickoffs into the endzone being returned.

[korme]

Just saw that Channing Crowder retired via Deadspin. Here's a collection of some great quotes of his over the past seasons:

Dolphins Linebacker Channing Crowder Retires At 27 To Spend More Time With His Own Crazy Thoughts: A Tribute (http://deadspin.com/5829350/dolphins-linebacker-channing-crowder-retires-at-27-to-spend-more-time-with-his-own-crazy-thoughts-a-tribute)

[Dutch]

When thinking about the delay during the kickoff, don't forget that the previous score also has to be reviewed. It's really pretty annoying to think they have added that much dead time in after each score.

The part about reviewing each score concerns me, the conspiracy theorist in me says there will be a time when a game-winning score that nobody thought to challenge will be reversed. Ugh...somewhere Bert Emmanuel is sobbing...

[Commo_Soldier]

When thinking about the delay during the kickoff, don't forget that the previous score also has to be reviewed. It's really pretty annoying to think they have added that much dead time in after each score.

The part about reviewing each score concerns me, the conspiracy theorist in me says there will be a time when a game-winning score that nobody thought to challenge will be reversed. Ugh...somewhere Bert Emmanuel is sobbing...

I thought the booth was only going to do a quick check to see if the score could be disputed and would only ask for a challenge if there is some dispute as to the outcome.

[Dutch]

I thought the booth was only going to do a quick check to see if the score could be disputed and would only ask for a challenge if there is some dispute as to the outcome.

I'm not sure of the details, I watched the Bucs/Chiefs game and there was the pause after every score, can't remember how long it was though for each one, maybe just the "close" scores were scrutinize. Also, if the Pittsburgh Steelers score a touchdown and the Seattle Seahawks want to challenge, they can't...unless the referee's say it's okay to challenge. Like I said, it's more of the conspiracy angle than anything else. I'm hoping it always works out perfectly.

[StLee]

In the Saints-Texans game, there was a play where Foster scored and it was obvious he scored. Booth guy told Hochuli to review it, so Hochuli had to run to the other end zone to review an obvious score.

One funny moment from that was Hochuli left his mic on and told someone he had to catch his breath. :)

I'm not too torn up on the 35 rule. I used to love watching Morten Andersen kicking the ball through the uprights from the 35. But I HATE adding more delays via reviewing scores every play, especially for a high-scoring team like the Saints.

[JPhillips]

I didn't think the Bengals would be the worst team in the league, but God the offense is awful and they can't cover anyone.

[rowech]

I didn't think the Bengals would be the worst team in the league, but God the offense is awful and they can't cover anyone.

They will be the worst. They have six real players and no depth. I said they had two chances at a win. Now that Arizona, has Kolb, better circle October 2nd when Buffalo comes to town. That's the only game that I think could separate them from 0-16 and 1-15.

[ColtCrazy]

So Jim Irsay tweeted that he's in Hattiesburg, Mississippi looking for Favre. Chances are he's just joking, but I honestly would love to have Favre for 4-6 games if Manning can't start the season. No way he could make it all year, but for a short spell, with the multiple weapons the Colts have....I'd be thrilled.

I mean, we have Curtis Painter and Dan Orlovsky. Of course Favre sounds like a great option.

It'll all be for nothing I'm sure. We'll end up with Kerry Collins, and the Colts will start 1-5 with Manning on the PUP list.

[Lathum]

They will be the worst. They have six real players and no depth. I said they had two chances at a win. Now that Arizona, has Kolb, better circle October 2nd when Buffalo comes to town. That's the only game that I think could separate them from 0-16 and 1-15.

And their dumb shit owner will still refuse to trade Palmer and actually get some picks he can use to rebuild the franchise. I think he may have surpassed Al Davis and Donald Sterling as the worst owners in sports.

[JPhillips]

Palmer won't be traded this year or next. Once there is a team floor he may be traded, but I'd expect Mike Brown to turn down trades for All-Pros just to be certain he's under the cap enough to fit Palmer's salary.

[Julio Riddols]

I'm hoping Palmer reports to the team later in the season, just to start some shit.

[bhlloy]

I'd like to reconsider my vote in the other thread. This could be the worst offense of all time and 0 win season looks a lot more likely than a 3 win season.

[BillJasper]

I didn't think the Bengals would be the worst team in the league, but God the offense is awful and they can't cover anyone.

I'm beginning to be really concerned about Andy Dalton. For the second game in a row the guy is staring down his first read and throwing the ball there no matter what.

If he doesn't learn to go through his progressions... he'll become an interception machine come the regular season. Gruden better be working on this issue first and foremost or his stint as an NFL offensive coordinator will be short.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Guess who drafted Terrell Pryor?

[JediKooter]

Bengals?

[BillJasper]

Raiders, was just on ESPN.

[gstelmack]

This news is useless without knowing what round he was taken in.

[Ksyrup]

3rd

[gstelmack]

Hehehehehe, yeah, that sounds like the Raiders.

[Ksyrup]

Maybe they'll bring back JaBustus to tutor him.

[Thomkal]

I'm not surprised in the least that the Raiders took him or that early.

[stevew]

Plus I'm guessing they're telling them to run them out as well, leading to less touchbacks. Last nights Vikings / Seahawks game had 7 kickoffs, 4 of which started at the 15 or worse. I just don't see coaches willing to risk the field position in the regular season if they don't have a stellar return guy. I could easily foresee less than 50% of kickoffs into the endzone being returned.

I'm easily thinking 50% or more. When they were kicking off from the 30, the kicker had to worry about placement, as well as kick strength. He couldn't necessarily kick it deep enough in the endzone to negate a return so he would attempt to cut off part of the field for an easy cover. Now they can just boom it into the latter half of the endzone and chill. There have been 2 kickoff returns longer than 106 yards in NFL history that I can find. I'm gonna be pissed if my team's returner tries to bring something deep out of the endzone and doesnt get past the 10. Teams should basically be carrying a kick off kicker instead of a dedicated KO return specialist at this point.

[Passacaglia]

I wonder if any teams will consider trying to kick high to like the 5 or so, hoping they can stuff the return to the 15. Seems high risk, low reward, but I could see some coaches trying it.

[stevew]

I wonder if any teams will consider trying to kick high to like the 5 or so, hoping they can stuff the return to the 15. Seems high risk, low reward, but I could see some coaches trying it.

I saw that happen once at the game I was at. Came in on some weird ass knuckle. Can't remember exactly what happend from there, I think they killed it inside of the 20.

[Suburban Rhythm]

I saw that happen once at the game I was at. Came in on some weird ass knuckle. Can't remember exactly what happend from there, I think they killed it inside of the 20.

Don't forget Steelers v 49ers circa 1990 or so, Barry Foster let a kickoff bounce in front of him about the 5 or so, and rather than covering it, SF recovered the ball.

[Blackadar]

Don't forget Steelers v 49ers circa 1990 or so, Barry Foster let a kickoff bounce in front of him about the 5 or so, and rather than covering it, SF recovered the ball.

That's different. That dumbass forgot there are different rules for punts and kickoffs and never tried to recover the ball.

[Kodos]

In the Saints-Texans game, there was a play where Foster scored and it was obvious he scored. Booth guy told Hochuli to review it, so Hochuli had to run to the other end zone to review an obvious score.

One funny moment from that was Hochuli left his mic on and told someone he had to catch his breath. :)

I'm not too torn up on the 35 rule. I used to love watching Morten Andersen kicking the ball through the uprights from the 35. But I HATE adding more delays via reviewing scores every play, especially for a high-scoring team like the Saints.

Thank god I hardly ever watch an NFL game live. DVR viewing for the win!

[Coffee Warlord]

Roy Williams showing why the Bears signed him. Two drive stopping third down passes dropped in a row.

[JAG]

Roy Williams showing why the Bears signed him. Two drive stopping third down passes dropped in a row.

When Martz said he could catch 70-80 passes this year, I don't think he was only including games.

[Danny]

I am good with Pryor pickup if they plan to convert him to WR or TE. The man is an athletic freak and in the past it has been shown that these types of players can have success converting to WR/TE. Mel Kiper had a good article on this.

I don't like the pick if they end up keeping him at quarterback.

[Danny]

That said, it doesn't hurt to give him a chance to develop for a year or so at QB before deciding to move him.

[DaddyTorgo]

I am good with Pryor pickup if they plan to convert him to WR or TE. The man is an athletic freak and in the past it has been shown that these types of players can have success converting to WR/TE. Mel Kiper had a good article on this.

I don't like the pick if they end up keeping him at quarterback.

Do you really think the guy has the capability to set aside his ego and agree to a position conversion? Nothing I've seen suggests that he does...

[Danny]

I don't know the man, so I have no idea. I don't necessarily buy into media hype regarding this. It probably will largely depend on the coaching staff. We'll see if Hue is up for it.

[Coffee Warlord]

Good lord. Bears in fact, not looking good in preseason.

[Blackadar]

I don't think Pryor can play WR. He doesn't have the quickness.


Fast 40, but workout #s otherwise not impressive - CBSSports.com (http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/13682485/31439877)


While Pryor's broad jump would have ranked among the better results among quarterbacks tested at the 2010 Combine, his vertical and short shuttle results were very average in comparison to other quarterbacks tested there.

His three cone time would have rated second to last among all of the quarterbacks tested. The only quarterback slower in this drill was Texas A&M's Jerrod Johnson, who timed at 7.28/7.31 in the event. Former Fresno State quarterback Ryan Colburn, as a comparison, was one of the slower quarterbacks in the 40-yard dash, timing as poorly as 5.23 seconds in the event last February, but this relatively slow-footed quarterback was timed alarmingly faster in the three-cone drill (6.84 seconds) than Pryor.

Pryor would have been the slowest of the receivers tested in this event. He also would have been slower than virtually all of the tight ends.

If he can't turn, he can't play WR in the NFL.

[Danny]

I don't know I read that those times are not at all important for a WR. They are primarily used to measure offensive linemen, defensive linemen, linebackers to determine how fluid they are in terms of short burst off the line & lateral agility.

[Danny]

It probably was a bit early for Pryor, but he's probably as good of a gamble as Tebow was and came two rounds later.

[stevew]

The Raiders are getting a third for NNamdi via the compensatory system, so I guess I see why they did it. Hard to say what their ranking would have been in the forth round, but I'd wager someone in the forth was going to take him. Or at least it was a reasonable train of thought.

[bhlloy]

Terrell Thomas done for the year. Man this Giants defense is snake bit so far.

[Danny]

They''ll probably end up with a 3rd for Aso, a 3rd for Zach Miller and a 4th or 5th for Gallery. They'll need them too because as of right now they only have their 1st, 5th, 6th and 7th. At least then they'll have something like 1st, 3rd, 3rd, 5th, 5th, 6th, 7th

[DeToxRox]

Terrell Thomas done for the year. Man this Giants defense is snake bit so far.

Had the Tigs on, what happened?

[Lathum]

Had the Tigs on, what happened?

Tore his ACL in a collision. Factor in Prince being out already and this really hurts.

[stevew]

Just catching up with the Raiders/Niners fighting nonsense. That is fucking insane.

San Francisco 49ers curb tailgating, seek indefinite end to Oakland Raiders series - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6884942/san-francisco-49ers-curb-tailgating-seek-indefinite-end-oakland-raiders-series)

[stevew]

dola-

I guess we're finally third world enough to act like soccer fans now?

[Suburban Rhythm]

Being reported Steelers lock up Lawrence Timmons, who would have been an UFA at the end of the season.

6 years/$50M

This means, if needed, they franchise Polamalu at the end of the year if they can't work out something long term, and James Harrison is likely paying his last year in Pittsburgh.

[Blackadar]

Being reported Steelers lock up Lawrence Timmons, who would have been an UFA at the end of the season.

6 years/$50M

This means, if needed, they franchise Polamalu at the end of the year if they can't work out something long term, and James Harrison is likely paying his last year in Pittsburgh.

Troy may get franchised, but unless there's a major drop-off in production, Harrison will probably be back. He signed a 5 year, $51m deal in 2009, so his deal would still have two years to run after this year. With over $20m in guarantees, that's a lot of cap cash to eat. It may be restructured, but if his back is ok, he'll be retained.

James Farrior, on the other hand, is the more likely candidate to go. He's 36, signed only through 2012 and Stephenson Sylvester (5th round pick last year) is the heir-apparent to that inside spot.

Some people may question paying Timmons that much, but the kid is only 25 and is one of the most dynamic players in the NFL today. Much of what they used to use Troy to do is now done through Timmons. His spot in the 3-4 doesn't have him put up big statistics, but he is a force on the field.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Troy may get franchised, but unless there's a major drop-off in production, Harrison will probably be back. He signed a 5 year, $51m deal in 2009, so his deal would still have two years to run after this year. With over $20m in guarantees, that's a lot of cap cash to eat. It may be restructured, but if his back is ok, he'll be retained.

James Farrior, on the other hand, is the more likely candidate to go. He's 36, signed only through 2012 and Stephenson Sylvester (5th round pick last year) is the heir-apparent to that inside spot.

Some people may question paying Timmons that much, but the kid is only 25 and is one of the most dynamic players in the NFL today. Much of what they used to use Troy to do is now done through Timmons. His spot in the 3-4 doesn't have him put up big statistics, but he is a force on the field.

Alot will depend on what Jason Worilds shows this year.

Harrison's deal was structured to make it certain he was around for 3 years. His base salary those years (2009, 2010 and current 2011) were around $800,000 the first two (plus roster bonuses), and $3M this year. Years 4-6 of the deal carry salaries of (roughly) $5M, $6M, and $7M.
He'll also be 35 next year....and, let's face it, bat-shit crazy.

I don't see how they can have 3 big money contacts at one position-- remember earlier in the summer, the previously franchised Lamarr Woodley signed a long term deal. Dumping Farrior would only save about $3M. He's hardly on a big money deal any longer.

ETA: Agree 100% on Timmons. People forget he was 21 when drafted, he's still so young for a guy with 4 years in the league.

[Blackadar]

Alot will depend on what Jason Worilds shows this year.

Harrison's deal was structured to make it certain he was around for 3 years. His base salary those years (2009, 2010 and current 2011) were around $800,000 the first two (plus roster bonuses), and $3M this year. Years 4-6 of the deal carry salaries of (roughly) $5M, $6M, and $7M.
He'll also be 35 next year....and, let's face it, bat-shit crazy.

I don't see how they can have 3 big money contacts at one position-- remember earlier in the summer, the previously franchised Lamarr Woodley signed a long term deal. Dumping Farrior would only save about $3M. He's hardly on a big money deal any longer.

ETA: Agree 100% on Timmons. People forget he was 21 when drafted, he's still so young for a guy with 4 years in the league.

Good points.

Harrison may be 35, but there's not a lot of mileage on those tires. He's only going into his 9th year since he was cut 4 times. And face it, many people thought Harrison was the best defensive player on the Steelers, not Troy. 100 tackles, 10.5 sacks, 6 forced fumbles, 2 ints and 3rd in DPoY voting. If he puts up another season like that, there's no way the Steelers let him go. The Steelers have a habit of letting guys go, but not when they perform at that level. It's usually once they've peaked and start declining a bit (i.e., Joey Porter).

However, if he misses time and/or that back continues to give him problems, then I think he's a candidate to get cut loose (or take a serious restructure).

Also, remember that this is probably Aaron Smith's last year too. His $5m will be coming off the books next year. Smith + Farrior + Ward (major restructure at the very least) will be about $10m in cap savings. They may not have to release Harrison to fit these guys under the cap (which will go up next year as well).

Capology, ain't it fun!

[stevew]

I didn't think that we would sign Timmons, so I'm happy. I suppose all it took was Kamerion Wimbley type money to get it done.

[sabotai]

The Giants lost another CB to a torn ACL. Brian Witherspoon. Not exactly someone that was in competition for the starting job, but he was a decent depth guy, and now the Giants have even fewer healthy CBs. Apparently they are bringing several CBs in for tryouts.

[Lathum]

Luckily for the Giants the front end of the schedule is a joke. Aside from the Eaagles and a game against the Cards and Fitz, they don't play any top QBs or wide outs. Week 9 is where things get brutal with a stretch against NE, Philly, NO, GB, and Dallas. Hopefully by then Prince is healthy and who ever they bring in is fully up to speed

[Ksyrup]

Marvin Austin, torn left pectoral muscle, requires surgery.

[JPhillips]

Bengals trade an undisclosed pick for Taylor Mays.

Playoffs!

[rowech]

Anyone who is a Giants fan....thoughts about Jake Ballard?

[Lathum]

Marvin Austin, torn left pectoral muscle, requires surgery.

you gotta be fuckin kidding me, this is absurd.

[Logan]

Maybe the Giants shouldn't have hired the Mets' medical staff.

[gstelmack]

Good thing these games don't count or you might start seeing some REAL injuries...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Interesting discussion. I like the idea of adding a bit more drama or removing some plays.

Bill Belichick wants the extra point to die - Shutdown Corner - NFL*Blog - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Bill-Belichick-wants-the-extra-point-to-die?urn=nfl-wp5693)

[spleen1015]

I am in the camp of just removing the kick off and putting the ball on the 20 if you really want to lessen the injury impact of kickoffs.

My only issue is that it removes the possibility of an onside kick at the end of the game and it removes plays like the Music City Miracle.

[Thomkal]

Well the Cards injuries continue to pile up-with two of the Cards backup QB's now injured-Max Hall separated his shoulder in practice, same injury that knocked him out late last season, and John Skelton has an ankle sprain. So that led to a surprisiing move today-they waived Hall and signed former KC starter Brodie Croyle-who has an injury history himself. None of this matters much since Kolb is the man unless you are a Cards fan like me. ;)

[johnnyshaka]

Leave the kickoffs in there...they can still be one of the more exciting plays of any game. Sure, those opportunities are going to go down with the new rules but the possibility is still there.

As for losing the extra point...sure, make everybody "go for 2" but move them back to somewhere between the 5 and 10 yards lines.

[Logan]

Have I posted about Greg Schiano's pitch to remove kickoffs from college games, to be replaced by either a punt from the 30 (replacing the kickoff, safer returns, higher TD%) or a 4th and 15 from the 30 (replacing the onside kick). He developed the idea based on the LeGrand injury and admits the yardage might need to be tweaked, but I don't think it's terrible compared to the alternatives.

[johnnyshaka]

Have I posted about Greg Schiano's pitch to remove kickoffs from college games, to be replaced by either a punt from the 30 (replacing the kickoff, safer returns, higher TD%) or a 4th and 15 from the 30 (replacing the onside kick). He developed the idea based on the LeGrand injury and admits the yardage might need to be tweaked, but I don't think it's terrible compared to the alternatives.

We talking about a free kick or lining up in a traditional punt formation?

I'm not a fan of the 4th and 15 thing because there is no element of surprise while under the current rules you could try an onside kick at any time to catch your opposition off guard.

[Logan]

We talking about a free kick or lining up in a traditional punt formation?

I'm not a fan of the 4th and 15 thing because there is no element of surprise while under the current rules you could try an onside kick at any time to catch your opposition off guard.

Traditional punt, with the ability to block it. The safety issue is largely addressed because instead of 10 guys plus a kicker sprinting downfield into a wall, for the most part the opposing teams are running side by side as they attempt to block/get around which reduces collisions.

You could also fake the punt of course. But removing the surprise piece of it (what percentage of onside kicks are for that purpose vs obtaining possession late?) you could conceptually make late game situations more exciting if that's a goal, as your 4th and whatever odds can be better than onside kick recovery percentage (they'd make it even by determining the exact distance based on probability of success).

edit: It's a separate issue, but if the new kickoff rules effectively eliminate kickoff returns, we might see more guys on the receiving team (including hands guys) up at the 10 yard mark which will reduce onside kick % going forward anyway.

[johnnyshaka]

You could also fake the punt of course. But removing the surprise piece of it (what percentage of onside kicks are for that purpose vs obtaining possession late?)

Same could be said for fake punts...how often do you see those?

[Logan]

Same could be said for fake punts...how often do you see those?

I'm not sure I follow.

You mentioned that the problem with the 4th and 15 is that the surprise piece of onside kicks is removed. I'm saying that maybe 10% of the time (and that's probably high), you're attempting an onside kick purely as a surprise for the other team (see: Super Bowl start of the 2nd half). And that's not going away in this scenario, because you can still fake your punt. For the other 90% of the time, you're trying to gain possession in a late game situation, which the other team is aware of. Which gives you the better odds, or which would you as a fan find more exciting? An offense and defense lined up in a "protect 15 yards" situation...or a 160 lb guy trying to spike a ball into the ground to produce just the right bounce?

[johnnyshaka]

I'm not sure I follow.

You mentioned that the problem with the 4th and 15 is that the surprise piece of onside kicks is removed. I'm saying that maybe 10% of the time (and that's probably high), you're attempting an onside kick purely as a surprise for the other team (see: Super Bowl start of the 2nd half). And that's not going away in this scenario, because you can still fake your punt. For the other 90% of the time, you're trying to gain possession in a late game situation, which the other team is aware of. Which gives you the better odds, or which would you as a fan find more exciting? An offense and defense lined up in a "protect 15 yards" situation...or a 160 lb guy trying to spike a ball into the ground to produce just the right bounce?

Surprise onside kicks are very successful when compared to the non-surprise variety, 60% versus 20% (Advanced NFL Stats (http://www.advancednflstats.com/2009/09/onside-kicks.html)). Would fake punts be as successful in your proposed system? Would they be more successful than sending out the offense to gain the required yardage?

You're right, at the end of the game when the entire stadium knows what's coming...yes, the onside kick is definitely a FAIL. But I still like the speed and recklessness of a kick return. Granted, I'm not the one getting beat up, but that doesn't mean I don't sit on the edge of my seat when I see that guy sneak through the first wave of tacklers.

[gstelmack]

Granted, I'm not the one getting beat up, but that doesn't mean I don't sit on the edge of my seat when I see that guy sneak through the first wave of tacklers.

... waiting to see if the refs will actually call all the holding and block-in-the-back penalties that are springing him.

[RedKingGold]

I'm surprised the XFL kickoff rule hasnt gotten some consideration.

[Radii]

Cincinnati has some strong competition for worst team in the NFL right here!!!

[Julio Riddols]

You know what.. I think Cam Newton might make a hell of a fantasy pick as a RB in the QB spot.

[Julio Riddols]

Also, as comfortable as Newton looked in game 1 as a passer.. This week he looks like one of the worst Qb's I've seen. Against the Bengals.

[Matthean]

Also, as comfortable as Newton looked in game 1 as a passer.. This week he looks like one of the worst Qb's I've seen. Against the Bengals.

That's a rookie QB for you.

[Radii]

If only Cam Newton got to play against Carolina's defense. First Miami, now Cincinnati are shredding right through the Panther defense.

[DeToxRox]

Cam doesn't step into any throws.

[Matthean]

I clicked on Cam's name in the ESPN recap of the game and got this.

Cam Newton Stats - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/9342/cam-newton)

:lol:

Cam has been 8/19, 7/14, and 6/19 for a total of 21/52 for 40% passing so far. The only good news out of that is Vick threw for 44.2% in his rookie year.

[JPhillips]

Tonight makes me feel better about my original prediction of the Panthers finishing with the worst record. I'm going to love it when they almost have to pick Luck in the 2012 draft.

[stevew]

I actually like the idea of punting from the 30 instead of the kickoff. Plus if you can gain, say either 10 or 15 yards it turns into a first down.

[Lathum]

Tonight makes me feel better about my original prediction of the Panthers finishing with the worst record. I'm going to love it when they almost have to pick Luck in the 2012 draft.

The thing with that is you no longer have to destroy your cap to sign the #1 overall pck so they could get a kings ransom in a trade for the #1.

[k0ruptr]

was just coming here to post about the Panthers. same thing, I'm pretty damn sure this team is picking #1 next season. I just hope they just somehow someway figure out a way to trade Cam or line him up at WR lol, and then take Luck. Won't happen, its just wishful thinking. Its sad watching your favorite team draft someone you absolutely want nothing to do with.

[Atocep]

I clicked on Cam's name in the ESPN recap of the game and got this.

Cam Newton Stats - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/9342/cam-newton)

:lol:

Cam has been 8/19, 7/14, and 6/19 for a total of 21/52 for 40% passing so far. The only good news out of that is Vick threw for 44.2% in his rookie year.


Hopefully with the new slotting system we don't see huge reaches on quarterbacks like this as often. He's a developmental project that was taken 1st overall and really doesn't have much business seeing the field this year.

[gstelmack]

I think Cam needs to be a TE (who lines up as FB sometimes or takes reverses) or FB, not a pure RB. But yeah, he looked godawful throwing the ball last night. He had trouble finding open receivers, and would just throw it to an empty spot near them if they were covered. And when they were open, he would throw it to an empty spot near them just to be safe. He can run, but the only hope for Carolina is that his current issues are "speed of the game" issues and it starts slowing down for him soon.

Happy they didn't have to break the bank for him.

[gstelmack]

Hopefully with the new slotting system we don't see huge reaches on quarterbacks like this as often. He's a developmental project that was taken 1st overall and really doesn't have much business seeing the field this year.

Agreed on this, right now they need to name Clausen the starter and give Cam a year to develop, he has no business being on the field right now.

[JPhillips]

The thing with that is you no longer have to destroy your cap to sign the #1 overall pck so they could get a kings ransom in a trade for the #1.

But if they do that they'll be stuck with Newton while they watch Luck become an All-Pro. If Luck is there I think any team has to take him.

[gstelmack]

But if they do that they'll be stuck with Newton while they watch Luck become an All-Pro. If Luck is there I think any team has to take him.

The Raiders will probably give up a 1st round pick for Newton after the Panthers take Luck :D

[JPhillips]

A duo of Pryor and Newton would be unstoppable. They could run a combined 40 in under three seconds!

[MacroGuru]

was just coming here to post about the Panthers. same thing, I'm pretty damn sure this team is picking #1 next season.

Not if Buffalo has anything to say about it....:D

[Ksyrup]

Its sad watching your favorite team draft someone you absolutely want nothing to do with.

Welcome to my Broncos hell.

[Ksyrup]

Hopefully with the new slotting system we don't see huge reaches on quarterbacks like this as often.

I'm not sure I follow - if it's going to cost a team less money to take a flyer on a high-risk/high-reward guy, wouldn't we expect see this more often, not less? Or are you acknowledging that and just hoping it doesn't happen?

[DeToxRox]

Maurkice Pouncey hurt his ankle again it looks like.

[DeToxRox]

Arian Foster left the Texans game tonight as well. Report is he was walking very deliberately.

Re-aggravated his hamstring injury apparently.

[Thomkal]

And Kevin Kolb finally gets his first TD with my beloved Cards. And a sweet one it is, an 80 yd TD play with Fitzgerald. And then on the next series for the Chargers, rookie 1st round pick CB Peterson intercepts a Rivers pass and runs it in for the Touchdown!

[duckman]

You got to be kidding me:

Philadelphia Eagles, Michael Vick reach 6-year, $100M deal, source says - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6907779/philadelphia-eagles-michael-vick-reach-6-year-100m-deal-source-says)

[Lathum]

You got to be kidding me:

Philadelphia Eagles, Michael Vick reach 6-year, $100M deal, source says - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6907779/philadelphia-eagles-michael-vick-reach-6-year-100m-deal-source-says)

yeah, I hate to see him get paid

[Shkspr]

Yeah, but it would have been $160 million if Michael Vick was white.

[stevew]

I think he's paid well enough so that he doesn't need to fight dogs for money anymore.

[gstelmack]

yeah, I hate to see him get paid

I hate to see a team throw that much money at a guy whose QB style gets him killed on a regular basis. It was pointed out that he has not played a complete season since 2006. He did have a good year last year, granted, but seems like a huge risk.

I also think Peyton Manning's contract was a huge risk, and wouldn't hand Brady an extension like that either right now.

[Sublime 2]

I hate to see a team throw that much money at a guy whose QB style gets him killed on a regular basis. It was pointed out that he has not played a complete season since 2006. He did have a good year last year, granted, but seems like a huge risk.

I also think Peyton Manning's contract was a huge risk, and wouldn't hand Brady an extension like that either right now.

I think it may have been difficult for him to get on the field in 07 and 08, which isn't to say I disagree.

[Coffee Warlord]

The Bears front office has become so incompetent they can't even cut a guy properly. See: Chester Taylor.

[cuervo72]

I hate to see a team throw that much money at a guy whose QB style gets him killed on a regular basis. It was pointed out that he has not played a complete season since 2006. He did have a good year last year, granted, but seems like a huge risk.

<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/lytZ7fYOlgU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Thomkal]

my beloved Cards get unlucky again-after trading Hightower, they lost Matthews for the season. Now after trading Rodgers-Cromartie, they have lost starting CB Toler for the season. :( Meaning that rookie 1st round pick Peterson will have to start, which wasn't something the Cards wanted so soon.

[johnnyshaka]

yeah, I hate to see him get paid

Actually, looks like Vick isn't really the one getting paid:

New Contract Means Vick's Creditors Can Get All Their Money Back By 2014 - CNBC (http://www.cnbc.com/id/44327928)

I hope this is how it works and that most of this money goes to where it's supposed to go. Granted, Vick does deserve a paycheck for what he does on the field and he will be getting a pretty darn nice one (by "average Joe" standards at least), don't get me wrong, but at least this could turn a really big "wrong" into a "right" at the end of the day.

[QuikSand]

Maybe the Bengals could go grab Tony Pike and try to hold on to him as a #3/practice guy this year. They surely could do worse.

[Arles]

Looks like Foster could be out 3-4 weeks with a slight hamstring tear according to John Clayton. Nothing's 100%, but you may want to make plans if you have him in FF. Not sure who the immediate starter would be between Tate and Ward, but you may want to scramble and get one. In the one league I have him, I grabbed both guys at the end of the draft. It's a bit of a mess.

[Logan]

Foster says he's fine. So does his mom.

[johnnyshaka]

Chris Johnson robbed a bank in Nashville.

[Matthean]

Chris Johnson robbed a bank in Nashville.

Wonder if his fake fans will shut up.

Chris Johnson would like his ‘fake fans’ to … um … ‘pipe down’ - Shutdown Corner - NFL*Blog - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Chris-Johnson-would-like-his-8216-fake-fans-8;_ylt=An_Lxsz6btvZcq6kLpf1Y0EdsLYF?urn=nfl-wp6247)

[Julio Riddols]

He'd been casing the place for over a year, so I guess its good he finally did the job.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Love seeing Aldon Smith perform up to expectations for San Francisco thus far. He's an athletic freak and a really good kid as well.

[sabotai]

I was thinking the Giants might have an 8-8 year, and I may be downgrading that to 7-9 or 6-10. The defense is already in critical condition with all of the injuries. Now LB Clint Sintim is out for the year. Technically a backup, but mainly so because he was coming off a serious injury from last year. I thought the guy was good enough to be a starter, but now he's gone and the Giants defensive depth gets that much thinner.

Sintim out for year with 'devastating' knee injury | New York Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/giants/2011/09/sintim-out-for-year-with-devastating-knee-injury)

[M GO BLUE!!!]

my beloved Cards get unlucky again-after trading Hightower, they lost Matthews for the season. Now after trading Rodgers-Cromartie, they have lost starting CB Toler for the season. :( Meaning that rookie 1st round pick Peterson will have to start, which wasn't something the Cards wanted so soon.

Do you mean "Williams?" They lost Ryan Williams for the season. Ain't no Matthews on the team.

[Lathum]

I was thinking the Giants might have an 8-8 year, and I may be downgrading that to 7-9 or 6-10. The defense is already in critical condition with all of the injuries. Now LB Clint Sintim is out for the year. Technically a backup, but mainly so because he was coming off a serious injury from last year. I thought the guy was good enough to be a starter, but now he's gone and the Giants defensive depth gets that much thinner.

Sintim out for year with 'devastating' knee injury | New York Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/giants/2011/09/sintim-out-for-year-with-devastating-knee-injury)

I'm trying to be optimistic, but I can see a 7-2 or 6-3 start with the early schedule. If they can get some guys back and get the new guys up to speed I think 9-7 is realistic. The final 7 games are brutal.

[Thomkal]

Do you mean "Williams?" They lost Ryan Williams for the season. Ain't no Matthews on the team.

sorry yes that's what I meant thanks for the correction

[wade moore]

Latum: Any thoughts on Adrian Tracy's chances to make the roster?

[Dutch]

Probably the most exciting pre-season football game I've ever watched last night between the Bucs and the Redskins. I'm not sure if WR Ed Gant makes the team based on that performance alone, but at least he'll know he did everthing in his power in the last pre-season game to give the coaches something to think about. Awesome performance by a lot of Bucs that are on the fence.

I'm continually amazed at the environment that Coach Morris is creating in Tampa right now. They are the youngest team in the NFL and it's going to be a fun ride this year.

But as fun as that pre-season game was...enough...let's get this party started for real.

[cuervo72]

That actually was a pretty entertaining game.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I'm continually amazed at the environment that Coach Morris is creating in Tampa right now. They are the youngest team in the NFL and it's going to be a fun ride this year.

But as fun as that pre-season game was...enough...let's get this party started for real.

Let's hope you don't get your party started until Week 2.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Colts hire*Jim Tressel as game-day consultant - NFL - SI.com (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/nfl/09/02/jim.tressel.colts.ap/index.html?sct=nfl_t2_a3)


INDIANAPOLIS (AP) -- Jim Tressel is heading to the NFL.
The disgraced Ohio State head coach was hired Friday by the Indianapolis Colts (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/teams/colts) as a game-day consultant to help determine when the team should challenge plays. Coach Jim Caldwell said it was a position he's wanted to fill for the past couple of years.



Pretty good gig if you can get paid for it.

[mckerney]

Colts hire*Jim Tressel as game-day consultant - NFL - SI.com (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/nfl/09/02/jim.tressel.colts.ap/index.html?sct=nfl_t2_a3)

[/COLOR]

Pretty good gig if you can get paid for it.[/LEFT]

No suspension from Goodell?

[Rizon]

Dunno if this has been mentioned before in this thread, but I keep seeing NFL commercials that talk about "how exciting kickoff returns are".

[bhlloy]

No suspension from Goodell?

How strange

[RainMaker]

No suspension from Goodell?
Shouldn't the NFLPA be up in arms?

[RedKingGold]

Shouldn't the NFLPA be up in arms?

On Friday, George Atallah (Asst. Executive Director of NFLPA) tweeted, "The NFLPA will be watching the Jim Tressell [sic] situation with interest."

[molson]

I think there is a difference. Wasn't the issue the abuse of the supplemental draft process? If Pryor had been suspended for 5 games (or the entire season), and then declared for the regular draft instead of coming back, he wouldn't have had a problem. It's really not about the NFL enforcing collegiate penalties, the 5 games was more of a supplemental draft abuse compromise -when he really should have been precluded from that draft entirely. The NFL doesn't want players to just choose the supplemental draft when nothing happens to change their collegiate status since the entry deadline for the regular draft.

[jeff061]

So Sanders and Meriweather gone. Sanders was a surprise and I didn't think they'd be ditching both of them. Wonder what the plan is there.

[Dutch]

The new NFL rule is seeing a lot of QB3's getting cut. So the Bucs cut promising "noodle-arm" Rudy Carpenter.

Sad to see WR Ed Gant get the ax, but perhaps his 6-3 200lbs frame will get him a look on another 53-man roster? Otherwise, at least I know he'll be on our practice squad.

LB Tyrone McKenzie also got the ax, our backup MLB? He was instrumental in leading off-season workouts, was developing into a team leader, and played very well in the pre-season....possible chemistry mismatch with MLB Foster???

[k0ruptr]

Huge rumor just hit my inbox, Manning needs another procedure/surgery on his neck and is out indefinitely. Again just a rumor at this point, but it makes sense to me.

[k0ruptr]

Huge for the colts, and even Kerry Collins for Fantasy purposes.

[ColtCrazy]

Ugh....lots of rumors circulating about Manning. The neck thing is at least getting a second eval, which at the very least means it's not healing like it should. At this point, I would safely guess he's out week 1 and probably till at least week 3. If he has another surgery, you can tank this season. Ugh. Steelers, Pats, Falcons, Saints, Bucs, Texans twice, and the Ravens all on the sked too.

This is why I never made fun of Brady's injury in 08 because I would have hated seeing my QB go down. Now it might be coming true.

I stuck with the Colts through the Jeff George 1-15 year in 1991. It won't be as bad as that team at least, but talk about a possible waste of Collie, Clark, Wayne, and Garcon...the best foursome I've ever seen play in Indy.

Though I will be watching the Pack if I want to catch some good QB play! :(

[albionmoonlight]

As a football fan generally, I hate to see a player like Manning injured. Also, I am not a doctor, but you don't f around with necks. He has his ring, and his first ballot HOF locked up. And a long career in media or business in front of him. Certainly not worth him risking his long term health if this does not clear up.

[ColtCrazy]

As a football fan generally, I hate to see a player like Manning injured. Also, I am not a doctor, but you don't f around with necks. He has his ring, and his first ballot HOF locked up. And a long career in media or business in front of him. Certainly not worth him risking his long term health if this does not clear up.

I would think he's smart enough to know that as well. And, as much as I don't want to think about it, if the Manning era ends I can say it was one helluva ride. I just hope there's a few more years left in it. But reality is that it's his second run in with neck issues, he's 35, and at some point you have to wonder if he wants to keep risking it. As good as Manning is, even with him I think this Colts team has too many holes defensively and on the offensive line to seriously contend in a crowded AFC. Without him, we are a 5-6 win team.

[Sweed]

I would think he's smart enough to know that as well. And, as much as I don't want to think about it, if the Manning era ends I can say it was one helluva ride. I just hope there's a few more years left in it. But reality is that it's his second run in with neck issues, he's 35, and at some point you have to wonder if he wants to keep risking it. As good as Manning is, even with him I think this Colts team has too many holes defensively and on the offensive line to seriously contend in a crowded AFC. Without him, we are a 5-6 win team.

Just trying to make lemonade here but with no Manning maybe you get lucky, the wheels fall off, you win one or two, and end up with Luck.:)

[BillJasper]

Just trying to make lemonade here but with no Manning maybe you get lucky, the wheels fall off, you win one or two, and end up with Luck.:)

And get rid of that coaching staff to boot. None of them seem too bright.

[Thomkal]

Hey Radii, (and other Carolina Panther fans)

See the Panthers have cut DE Everette Brown-who they traded a 1st rounder for a couple years back so they could get up in the second round to take him. GM Marty Hurney should be following him out the door I think too...

[M GO BLUE!!!]

And get rid of that coaching staff to boot. None of them seem too bright.

Well, they did hire Jim Tressel, so they obviously know what they are doing.

[k0ruptr]

Hey Radii, (and other Carolina Panther fans)

See the Panthers have cut DE Everette Brown-who they traded a 1st rounder for a couple years back so they could get up in the second round to take him. GM Marty Hurney should be following him out the door I think too...

yea, saw this and it fairly surprised me. guess the hype wasn't talent.

[Radii]

yea, saw this and it fairly surprised me. guess the hype wasn't talent.

Yeah I'm surprised as well, and have to wonder what has to happen for Hurney to keep his job this year.