Alright Boys, Here we go! The Football Manager 2012 thread (Game OUT!)

[SirFozzie]

Wow. Big news from SI today:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/274388-FM12-blogs-Release-date-amp-Scouting?p=7066361#post7066361

Before I start talking about what has changed and been added in this years game scouting wise, I have an announcement to make.

(drum roll please). Football Manager 2012 now has a provisional release date!
No longer just “before Xmas 2012” as we’d previously announced, but we’re working around the clock to be able to release the game on Friday, October 21st.

Just five and a half weeks away! Nice..

Let's see, this week's blog has to do with scouting and how it's been revamped:

Can get a team report (including your own) for any team in the game by asking a scout to look them over:

Shows:

Top three players at each position (and star rating for each) in a general screen

You can break this down by individual position, you select the position and it will show you all the players who can play that position and their rating.

When looking at your own team, you can ask for a breakdown on how the position ranks amongst the teams in your division

A break down of what tactics you've played, how often, and how well you've done with each tactic.

A break down of what kind of goals you're scoring or being scored on, when in the match the goals came from and from where)

Now you don't have to send specific people to scout players, you can just request a report on a player from a member of your scouting pool, and it will assign someone to it.

So you've scanned that 16 year old Brazillian Wonderkid, and you get the notice he's turned 18 and you want to go purchase him? Well, under the new options, if you haven't scouted an obscure person for a while, their stats slowly become hidden again as you lose knowledge..

[SirFozzie]

Another blog coming tomorrow apparently.. no word on what it's on..

[SirFozzie]

Also from the first week of FM Preview podcasts (nicked this from the FM thread on SA)


Entertainment factor is now calculated by the match engine - match feedback now contains feedback about the entertainment levels of the game
Supported types are modelled, with Loyalty, Passion, Affluence, Temperment and Patience influencing their behaviour
Improved animation for contact points for kicking a medium-height ball
Multi-box class has been re-factored
Calender time-bar now shows previous results rather than just fixtures
When asking for a new contract, trophies and allowing time to see through youth movement can be discussed
When a new stadium is built, there is an 'expected attendence' field which can increase attendences more realistically

[RPI-Fan]

Thanks for compiling this; keep the updates coming please! Do you know when the demo would be released for a 10/21 release? Last bought FM 10, so will look forward to picking up FM 12 for sure. :)

What were the biggest improvements from FM 10 to FM 11?

[DaddyTorgo]

Fuck you Foz :D - I already made a FM 2012 thread like...two/three weeks ago. Use the search button :p

[sovereignstar v2]

Didn't really mind the pre-Xmas release date. Now I know the game will be in a sad state on release date as usual.

[DaddyTorgo]

Didn't really mind the pre-Xmas release date. Now I know the game will be in a sad state on release date as usual.

Well that's overstating things IMO. Usually comes out in a good, playable state. Very few (if any) "gamebreaking" bugs - especially when compared to say Madden or NCAA or anything. And the bugs there might be are usually taken care of quite quickly.

[thesloppy]

Last year's game was pretty much solid on release, wasn't it? I'm still playing the release day version, 'cause I didn't want to start a new career, and that's certainly never happened before.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Fuck you Foz :D - I already made a FM 2012 thread like...two/three weeks ago. Use the search button :p

And I started one before you. I think there was one other as well. Must be a pretty good game to have four threads over a month before it even comes out. :)

[SirFozzie]

<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ZuCsM9pvV80" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Today's thread deals with Tactics revamp.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Just saw that FM 2012 is up for pre-purchase on Steam. Any chance of a pre-purchase package that I should wait on or just go ahead and buy the thing?

Marc, I'm looking at you..........

[SirFozzie]

This one is aimed more at newer players, with video tutorials for new features and new players in FM2012:

<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/GsDy5f6S9Ao" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[AlexB]

Marc - next year just get Miles to spend the money for Angelos Epithemiou to do the videos :D

http://lgos.org/files/Angelos_Epithemiou.jpg

[DaddyTorgo]

Seriously...my thread was much better Foz.

*KEELS YOU DEAD*

[SirFozzie]

It's a free market, DT. People preferred my thread to yours ;)

[SirFozzie]

Today's thread: Youth team revamps:

You'll now get a "youth candidates" squad near the end of the season. These players are considered trialists, and play with the youth team in some end of season games. They also will play a game against the youth team. The assistant and your coaches will give you scouting reports on all the players, so you can decide who to sign. Players who are not signed get released after a few weeks. (you can set the assistant to automatically offer suitable candidates youth contracts if you don't desire that much control

If you need to save money, you can even ask the board to scrap your youth system entirely. They may or may not go along with it (if the club is deep in the red, you have a better chance)

Newgens have been tweaked, to make it better and more flavorful (Brazillian wingers are more likely to have high flair for example, and spanish players are more likely to be comfortable playing a short passing game, those are the two examples in the blog)

They've also made tweaks in not just tweaking pulls from your local area, but from your club's recruitment area (for example, if you're heavily invested in overseas recruiting, some of your newgens will be from that area, and have that region's "flavor")

[Barkeep49]

What's recruitment area refer to? The area where you can scout? So if as an EPL team I've made a heavy commitment to South American scouting (which I have) I'm more likely to get pulls from there?

[SirFozzie]

It refers to your youth recruitment rating (which is seperate from youth facilities as of FM11). Basically, the better the youth recruitment network is built up, the better your newgens will be when they first appear. (the youth facilities affects how they improve once they get there)

[TroyF]

Steam now has the game for preorder (39.99)

[riz]

Probably worth mentioning that your scouting knowledge also has an effect on where your foreign newgens come from, if your recruitment is good enough to get them. The chances for a foreign newgen to come into your youths from one of nations you have full knowledge of is naturally greater than nations you don't know so well.

[DaddyTorgo]

*keels you dead Foz*

[Glengoyne]

All right I'm just now building a new computer, and figure that an FM upgrade is in order. I've been playing 2009, and am wondering if I should bite the bullet and snap up 2012 on pre-order or if I should just grab the $19 bargain that is FM2011 right now?

Any big changes or killer features that will sway me?

[DaddyTorgo]

All right I'm just now building a new computer, and figure that an FM upgrade is in order. I've been playing 2009, and am wondering if I should bite the bullet and snap up 2012 on pre-order or if I should just grab the $19 bargain that is FM2011 right now?

Any big changes or killer features that will sway me?

2012 all the way.

2012 will add the ability to add/remove leagues to your playable universe on-the-fly, rather than having to do it all at once. Just for starters. There's more of course, but that alone might sway a lot of folks.

[Glengoyne]

2012 all the way.

2012 will add the ability to add/remove leagues to your playable universe on-the-fly, rather than having to do it all at once. Just for starters. There's more of course, but that alone might sway a lot of folks.


Ooh that is cool, and I see up above the bit about the revamped team report. That is pretty cool stuff, but being able to add a league on the fly is great. Earlier in an FM09 game I walked away from a job and took over a team that was languishing at the bottom of the table. I had elevated them to just above relegation when I realized that I didn't have any lower leagues activated. I was really worried about the outcome of the last game with only a one point lead.

[spleen1015]

*keels you dead Foz*

A mod should just merge the threads.

[DaddyTorgo]

A mod should just merge the threads.

This would be the sensible solution. Especially since mine has the "Alright boyz" tag on it and I was intending for it to be the "one stop FM thread" for the year, both pre and post release.

[DaddyTorgo]

Ooh that is cool, and I see up above the bit about the revamped team report. That is pretty cool stuff, but being able to add a league on the fly is great. Earlier in an FM09 game I walked away from a job and took over a team that was languishing at the bottom of the table. I had elevated them to just above relegation when I realized that I didn't have any lower leagues activated. I was really worried about the outcome of the last game with only a one point lead.

Yeah - the team report bit is awesome too, and I'm really looking forward to that.

[I. J. Reilly]

A mod should just merge the threads.

But this thread is so much better; we don't want that other one contaminating this one.

[DaddyTorgo]

But this thread is so much better; we don't want that other one contaminating this one.

:p

Lies.

[SirFozzie]

New stuff today:

"Non-Contract" Contracts (now before you say that's stupid, it's for lower level teams where you can give the player a salary, etcetera, but it's an "at-will" contract, meaning that the player can get signed away to a bigger club, but you can end it at any time as well.

signing on fees now get paid over the life of the contract, rather than all up front (and resigning a player is now a "Loyalty Bonus")

Contract Locks: Say that star player wants 15K when all you can give him is 12K, you can "lock" a part of the contract, meaning you can not/will not budge from that, and the agent will try to make the player happy to sign in different ways (for example, bigger signing on bonus, or a better bonus for first team appearances). Makes contract negotiations easier.

Able to "re-open" contract negotiations, even after a tentative offer has been accepted (let's say you're a mid range team, and you offer a free transfer X amount of money, and then the top team in your division makes an offer, and you know you'll significantly have to up the offer to get him to sign.

New clause: % increase in pay after a certain amount of international caps (yes, not only might your precious player get injured while playing for someone other than you, the person who pays his salary, then the greedy SOB wants more money for having done so!)

Players more likely to ask for mutual termination after relegation or near the end of their contracts and transfer listed.

Players can be issued ultimatums in the final year of their contract to sign or they'll be put on the transfer list (yay), and now you can tell a player in a conversation why he's being listed (Somehow I don't think "Cuz you're a whinging arsefaced rat" will be in there)

Agents are smartened up, if you suggest you need help at striker, for example, agents will ping you with more "Buy my player" messages for their strikers

and a revamp of the transfer centre screen.

[Barkeep49]

That contract stuff is really exciting to me. My plan had been to keep with 11 until summer when I could get 12 cheaply. Now as I get excited reading this thread I wonder if I'll be able to hold out.

[DaddyTorgo]

Holy crap - is this true MV?

Make no mistake, if a quarter of the people that usually pirate the game switch to purchasing Football Manager 2012, the sales of the game worldwide would more than double.

[Marc Vaughan]

Holy crap - is this true MV?

In a word - "Yes" ... piracy sucks basically.

[DaddyTorgo]

In a word - "Yes" ... piracy sucks basically.

Hot damn. That's nuts.

I liked my post in that thread.

I love Steam. I have copies of FM installed on both my laptop at home and my work computer. I save my savegames to my dropbox folder (and backup to my HD). That way I can play FM from home or from the office on my lunchbreak/after hours if I'm hanging around the office. These whiners don't understand what they're missing (or IMO and probably more likely, a number of them are disgruntled pirates).

Would be best if you could link the sigames forums to people's Steam accounts - then only legitimate purchasers could participate in discussions there.

[SirFozzie]

I wonder if this is an argument to go Steam-only,. at least there you have the Steamworks DRM that works yet is relatively unobtrusive to the legitimate owner (then again, that's US centric thinking, right?)_

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I wonder if this is an argument to go Steam-only,. at least there you have the Steamworks DRM that works yet is relatively unobtrusive to the legitimate owner (then again, that's US centric thinking, right?)_

I only play PC games on Steam for the most part. There's a few sports sims from places like Wolverine that I also play, but I'd agree that it's the least intrusive and it's nice to be able to play all your games on any computer at any time. Always seem to have great deals as long as your patient (not a problem for me with two young kids that limit my game time).

[SirFozzie]

and it looks like you will indeed have to use Steam to play FM2012 this year (or more accurately, at least activate it through Steam).

A Message On Football Manager 2012 Activation (http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/274801-A-Message-On-Football-Manager-2012-Activation)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

and it looks like you will indeed have to use Steam to play FM2012 this year (or more accurately, at least activate it through Steam).

A Message On Football Manager 2012 Activation (http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/274801-A-Message-On-Football-Manager-2012-Activation)

The bitching and moaning in that thread is fantastic (for all the wrong reasons).

1. Most all people will be able to activate the game just fine.

2. I can't imagine a situation where if someone had an issue, that SI wouldn't assist the user in getting it resolved. I've always received great customer service from both SI and Steam.

[SirFozzie]

Yeah, the "U RUINED IT FOREVAR IM LEAVIN" is just way too funny.

[SackAttack]

Since this thread is top of mind and the FM11 one isn't, can anybody tell me what the 'X' means when the game is displaying recent form while it simulates?

I'm thinking D = draw where you come from behind, and X = draw where the other side does so. How far off am I?

[RPI-Fan]

Since this thread is top of mind and the FM11 one isn't, can anybody tell me what the 'X' means when the game is displaying recent form while it simulates?

I'm thinking D = draw where you come from behind, and X = draw where the other side does so. How far off am I?

"D"is a nil-nil draw.

[SackAttack]

"D"is a nil-nil draw.

Thanks.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Just took the plunge. Pre-purchased on Steam. No option to load yet. I guess it's not quite done. :)

[Marc Vaughan]

Since this thread is top of mind and the FM11 one isn't, can anybody tell me what the 'X' means when the game is displaying recent form while it simulates?

I'm thinking D = draw where you come from behind, and X = draw where the other side does so. How far off am I?

D is a 0-0 draw, X = score draw.

The reason for the difference in designation is that these originate from the 'Football Pools' which is a form of predictive gambling in the UK where you try and predict soccer results.

(most common is trying to spot so many home wins out of 'x' selected or so many score draws)

[Qrusher14242]

and it looks like you will indeed have to use Steam to play FM2012 this year (or more accurately, at least activate it through Steam).

A Message On Football Manager 2012 Activation (http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/274801-A-Message-On-Football-Manager-2012-Activation)

i dont mind using steam as an option, but forcing people to install and use steam is not cool. All this will do is force people who don't want to use steam to piracy.

Also, using steam will make piracy easier, since its the easiest form of DRM to crack. Deus EX HR was cracked very quickly and you don't have to use Steam at all if you get the pirated version(You also don't get the ingame ads that you get with the bought version).

Again, i use steam and like it, but i see this as first step toward worse DRM(like with Settlers 7 where you have to stay connected to the internet at all times).

They make some good points against steam too:

No more picking and choosing what patch you want(like if i wanted to stay with patch 11.2 cause of some bug in 11.3, i couldn't do that with the steam version)

No more selling the game on ebay when i'm done with it.

Offline mode does not work good at all. If my internet connection goes out(which it does a lot), it's very hard to get it into offline mode. I have to basically plan to stay in offline mode before hand. If its in the middle of an update and my internet goes out, i'm out of luck.


I would of liked them to go with something like Impulse. Much better than Steam

[klayman]

No more picking and choosing what patch you want(like if i wanted to stay with patch 11.2 cause of some bug in 11.3, i couldn't do that with the steam version)



This is not correct. Every game has an option to not apply automatic updates. FM is no different.

[Qrusher14242]

well you once you update to the newest patch, you can't go back to the previous patch. If i have patch 2 installed and install patch 3, but find out its riddled with bugs, i can't reinstall and go back to patch 2 like i could before.

[SirFozzie]

i dont mind using steam as an option, but forcing people to install and use steam is not cool. All this will do is force people who don't want to use steam to piracy.

Also, using steam will make piracy easier, since its the easiest form of DRM to crack. Deus EX HR was cracked very quickly and you don't have to use Steam at all if you get the pirated version(You also don't get the ingame ads that you get with the bought version).

Again, i use steam and like it, but i see this as first step toward worse DRM(like with Settlers 7 where you have to stay connected to the internet at all times).

They make some good points against steam too:

No more picking and choosing what patch you want(like if i wanted to stay with patch 11.2 cause of some bug in 11.3, i couldn't do that with the steam version)

No more selling the game on ebay when i'm done with it.

Offline mode does not work good at all. If my internet connection goes out(which it does a lot), it's very hard to get it into offline mode. I have to basically plan to stay in offline mode before hand. If its in the middle of an update and my internet goes out, i'm out of luck.


I would of liked them to go with something like Impulse. Much better than Steam

remember past years when you had to play with the disc in? Or SecuROM, or (shudder) Starforce), Steam is the lightest DRM there is.

[Blade6119]

I love steam, I simply dont understand people who dont...

[Alf]

You also don't get the ingame ads that you get with the bought version.


Duh, ingame ads for a purchased game ? What is that ?

[Epi_862]

Duh, ingame ads for a purchased game ? What is that ?

Yeah, its a slippery slope this one. Whats the next horrifying step? Advertisements in movie theaters? Product placement in tv-shows? Oh, the humanity.

Also, i find it absolutely fantastic when (as with the sega forum post) people who clearly just want to pirate the shit out of everything try to come up with half-witted reasons why the DRM will drop sales. Like someone said before, steam is great, and theres absolutely no reason not to use it - that is, unless you want to pirate games.

[DaddyTorgo]

Yeah - I'm resolved that like 99.9% of the people on the Sega forum just want to pirate the game and that's why they're bitching.

I hope SI realize that.

I wish there was a way to tie forum registration over there to Steam-activation of the game, so you'd cut all the pirates right out.

[Marc Vaughan]

Yeah - I'm resolved that like 99.9% of the people on the Sega forum just want to pirate the game and that's why they're bitching.
Some will be - some won't, part of the problem with t'internet is that people get caught up in non-event flame stories very easily ... especially those people who aren't technically savvy.

That being said its not like this will be a decision which has been made lightly (wasn't involved in it personally) and I know that some of SEGA's other high profile games have already taken this route - so I believe they already have some experience in the reactions and long term effects of such a shift.

[Marc Vaughan]

Also, using steam will make piracy easier, since its the easiest form of DRM to crack. Deus EX HR was cracked very quickly and you don't have to use Steam at all if you get the pirated version(You also don't get the ingame ads that you get with the bought version).

I don't want to get bogged down in a debate on this (and the views posted here are my own - not 'official' views from either SI or SEGA):

You say 'very quickly' - but actually one of the advantages of STEAM is that it delays crackers by its very nature; often before on-line authentication games would be cracked before their release via. leaked review copies or disks from a duplication plant.

With STEAM its possible to embed part of the required code for the game (ie. not just a protection alogrithm) online and thus prevent crackers from hacking into the game until it has actually formally been released at retail (ie. delaying the creation of any potential cracks until its actually in the shops and selling).

That might sound like a 'minor' thing; ie. it'll still likely get broken - but consider that 75% of most games sales come in the first month of its release ... and you can see why its desirable.

[DaddyTorgo]

MV wins.

[Miller Time]

Is there any benefit to pre-order early through Steam? Do pre-orders get first dibs on being able to download it?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Is there any benefit to pre-order early through Steam? Do pre-orders get first dibs on being able to download it?

They usually put up the files a couple days early for you to preload so you can play as soon as it's out.

[RainMaker]

Ooh that is cool, and I see up above the bit about the revamped team report. That is pretty cool stuff, but being able to add a league on the fly is great. Earlier in an FM09 game I walked away from a job and took over a team that was languishing at the bottom of the table. I had elevated them to just above relegation when I realized that I didn't have any lower leagues activated. I was really worried about the outcome of the last game with only a one point lead.

Funny you bring this up. I was wondering what happens in this scenario as well. Anyone know?

[RainMaker]

Yeah - I'm resolved that like 99.9% of the people on the Sega forum just want to pirate the game and that's why they're bitching.

I hope SI realize that.

I wish there was a way to tie forum registration over there to Steam-activation of the game, so you'd cut all the pirates right out.

I agree. Over all the years of playing games on all sorts of platforms, I've never had any DRM protection ruin my experience in any way. I've never run into these horrible problems people claim we'll experience.

My favorite argument is "this will force people to piracy". If it wasn't about stealing the game, wouldn't they buy the Steam copy and then pirate the non protected version to do as they please? Of course not, because this has nothing to do with user experience and everything to do with getting games for free.

I don't think everyone there is looking to pirate the game. I think DRM has becomae a "cool" thing to rage against "the man" about. But the fact remains that this shit will have no effect on anyone anywhere and the only thing it does is stop a few freeloaders from stealing someone else's hardwork.

[CAsterling]

Funny you bring this up. I was wondering what happens in this scenario as well. Anyone know?

If it still works thre same way it always did, you get fired at the end of the season. doesn't matter if you have been there 10 years or 10 days, because there is no active league for you to manage the club in, the game automatically fires you from the club and you become unemployed.

At least that is the way it used to work the times it happened to me in previous versions.

[Marc Vaughan]

Funny you bring this up. I was wondering what happens in this scenario as well. Anyone know?

Just to confirm - If you are relegated outside of 'active' leagues then you're automatically sacked from the club in question. This is simply to prevent you being 'stuck' with a club which is playing next to no matches in a season.

(also you managing them would prevent the game 'emulating' the club in the league they'd drop to - thus their players wouldn't get any games at all - further messing up the simulation)

[Coffee Warlord]

I love steam, I simply dont understand people who dont...

Hate it, hate it, hate it.

1) Regardless of how often it happens, there are instances where, if my internet connection is down, I lose access to my games. Offline mode or not, it's been known to happen. Maybe not often, but even once is utterly unacceptable, especially for a primarily single player game.

2) I don't particularly like having to run two applications to run one. Other digital distributions have it right - the only time I should ever have to run their app is when I'm downloading/installing.

[I. J. Reilly]

Can someone explain how this works for me, I've never used Steam.

For example, if I'm in the middle of a game and my connection drops for a minute or two, which it does on occasion, what will happen? Will it freeze? Or is it just a case of the game needing to ping Steam when I start up to make sure it's an authorized version I'm playing?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Can someone explain how this works for me, I've never used Steam.

For example, if I'm in the middle of a game and my connection drops for a minute or two, which it does on occasion, what will happen? Will it freeze? Or is it just a case of the game needing to ping Steam when I start up to make sure it's an authorized version I'm playing?

You only have to connect the very first time you download it (or activate a hard copy). After that, you can play in offline mode and never have to connect again (outside of patch downloads).

[Blade6119]

And to actually answer his question, nothing will happen if your connection drops, it will just go on like nothing has happened at all

[flounder]

Is there some setting you have to activate to be able to play offline? Back when I was playing Shogun, I lost internet access for a time and wasn't able to play it until I got back online.

P.S. Having dealt with other DRM mechanisms, I'm definitely pro-Steam.

[sovereignstar v2]

Been awhile since I last checked, but you used to have to be online to actually check the option to play offline. Meaning that you would be fucked if you lost your connection randomly. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong...

[Sweed]

Been awhile since I last checked, but you used to have to be online to actually check the option to play offline. Meaning that you would be fucked if you lost your connection randomly. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong...

I have the last three FMs (one being the last WWSM) from Steam and yes you do have to connected to go offline. The way around that is I always have Steam in offline mode and only go online when I need to.

Even if your internet is down and Steam is not loaded it will start up without internet if it was in offline mode when you last used it. At least I'm 99% sure it will:) Someone can correct me if I'm wrong about that.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Been awhile since I last checked, but you used to have to be online to actually check the option to play offline. Meaning that you would be fucked if you lost your connection randomly. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong...

That is not correct. If you start up Steam and you have no connectivity, it automatically switches to offline mode. My parents don't have internet and I play Steam games without any issues. Just pops up a message that informs you that it's switching to offline mode since there's no connection.

[samifan24]

Are you guys buying the Steam version or the boxed version? Steam seems easier but I prefer having the physical disc in case something happens and I've always bought the boxed version and just activated it through Steam. Should I just go Steam only? Are there any disadvantages to doing so?

[RainMaker]

Steam is pretty amazing.

Do they by chance have a service where you can put your saved games on a cloud of sorts? So I can switch computers and load up a previous save. I usually just use Dropbox for that but sometimes I like to play a few games at work and then come home and load it back up.

[flounder]

Steam does have that ability, but games have to be coded specifically to use it. I don't think FM is.

[RainMaker]

Yeah, it's not a big deal as Dropbox and other programs can fix it. Just thought it'd be a cool addition to keep saves on a cloud somewhere. I tend to upgrade computers a bunch so it'd be cool to pull down a save from FM10 or something and look through if I was bored.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Steam does have that ability, but games have to be coded specifically to use it. I don't think FM is.

This is the first year they're using Steam exclusively. I wonder if it might be an option this year. Probably a good question for Marc.

[DaddyTorgo]

Steam is pretty amazing.

Do they by chance have a service where you can put your saved games on a cloud of sorts? So I can switch computers and load up a previous save. I usually just use Dropbox for that but sometimes I like to play a few games at work and then come home and load it back up.

I use Dropbox for this - your FM game will fit easily. It's so easy and awesome. :D

[RainMaker]

I also just pre-ordered.

[sabotai]

Are you guys buying the Steam version or the boxed version? Steam seems easier but I prefer having the physical disc in case something happens and I've always bought the boxed version and just activated it through Steam. Should I just go Steam only? Are there any disadvantages to doing so?

I don't think I've bought a boxed version of a PC game in...hell, I don't know. All the games I've bought for at least the last 4-5 years, maybe more, have been off Steam, GamersGate or Impulse. I don't miss having physical copies at all. And I've never "lost" a game with these services either. The same isn't true for boxed versions (losing the case or the book with the key printed on it = can't install the game again).

[Karim]

Do we have min/max specifications yet? My computer is old and have been toying with the idea of getting another one. Of course, the first consideration when buying another computer is will it run FM. :)

I only run England because I've never had a system capable of running the UK + major European powers which is what I'd ideally like to do - England, Scotland, Ireland, Northern Ireland, Wales, France, Spain, Germany, Italy, Holland, Portugal. I'm guessing i7 processor but how much RAM would I need for that? Would 8GB suffice?

[DaddyTorgo]

Do we have min/max specifications yet? My computer is old and have been toying with the idea of getting another one. Of course, the first consideration when buying another computer is will it run FM. :)

I only run England because I've never had a system capable of running the UK + major European powers which is what I'd ideally like to do - England, Scotland, Ireland, Northern Ireland, Wales, France, Spain, Germany, Italy, Holland, Portugal. I'm guessing i7 processor but how much RAM would I need for that? Would 8GB suffice?

I can't imagine you couldn't run that on an i7 with 8GB. Seems like that would be simple. I'm running more than that on an i7/8gb.

[Alf]

Hi MV,

taking the opportunity to ask it here. I moved my main computer to linux 3 years ago and am stuck with wine/playonlinux for "Windows" games.

I haven't been able to run/install FM10 nor FM11 demos on those systems. I tried the way that people pointed me to at fm-tux.net and the likes, but still no luck. I also tried on Windows XP Virtual Machine, game installs but won't run.

Any remote chance FM will be support Linux OSes in the near future ? Even with degraded perf (read : no 3D)

Cheers, and thanks for that great game. The alma mater of all text sims.

[Ryan S]

Do we have min/max specifications yet? My computer is old and have been toying with the idea of getting another one. Of course, the first consideration when buying another computer is will it run FM. :)

I only run England because I've never had a system capable of running the UK + major European powers which is what I'd ideally like to do - England, Scotland, Ireland, Northern Ireland, Wales, France, Spain, Germany, Italy, Holland, Portugal. I'm guessing i7 processor but how much RAM would I need for that? Would 8GB suffice?

I ran that kind of game on a Core 2 duo with 2gb memory in FM10 and FM11 the speed was fine, with an i7 processor it should fly.

Not sure about the memory, does FM take advantage of more than 2gb?

[Miller Time]

Well I broke down and pre-ordered. I have bought pretty much every version of the CM/FM series but cannot remember being as excited as I am for this year's.

Any idea when the demo comes out? I love that you can add leagues to the demo and continue playing. Looked around the SI forums but didn't see anything.

[Icy]

I have preordered too as i do every year.

Hope that all the issues with the B/C teams in Spain have been fixed but... as nothing has been announced related to that, i doubt so.

It's been an unrealistic mess for the last 3 years or so since they were made human playable, killing the Spanish leagues for most of Spanish players like me, with all it's related bugs and issues.

I always play in the English, German or Italian leagues for that reason.

[SackAttack]

My current game on 11 is England, Wales, Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Spain, Italy, US, Mexico with all leagues loaded and it runs fine on a Core 2 Duo T6400 with 3GB RAM. One of the things I'm looking forward to, once I upgrade my laptop later in the Fall, is being able to really open up and run most of the available nations.

I read things like this, and it sounds like my issue isn't RAM (it's tough for me to run more than the English leagues), but using a single core processor.

[DaddyTorgo]

Well I broke down and pre-ordered. I have bought pretty much every version of the CM/FM series but cannot remember being as excited as I am for this year's.

Any idea when the demo comes out? I love that you can add leagues to the demo and continue playing. Looked around the SI forums but didn't see anything.

I'm guessing Thursday, since that will be two weeks prior to release...

[bulletsponge]

I have preordered too as i do every year.

Hope that all the issues with the B/C teams in Spain have been fixed but... as nothing has been announced related to that, i doubt so.

It's been an unrealistic mess for the last 3 years or so since they were made human playable, killing the Spanish leagues for most of Spanish players like me, with all it's related bugs and issues.

I always play in the English, German or Italian leagues for that reason.

what sort is bugs? im playing in spain right now

[SackAttack]

Just noticed in my FM11 game that Wigan finished 16th in EPL last season and is in the Championship this season. Could that be a display bug related to tiebreakers or something?

[Icy]

what sort is bugs? im playing in spain right now

In Spain, we have something different than in the rest of leagues, that is that the reserve teams (named B or C) play in the official league ladder system like any other independent team, instead of in their own reserves league like in Englad for example. Those B/C teams are used by the parent teams to develop young players helping them to gain experience on competitive leagues, but some steps under the main team.

For example:

FC Barcelona has a B team (Barcelona Atletico) and a C team.

FC Barcelona plays in 1st division
Barcelona B Atletico plays in the 2nd division
Barcelona C plays in the 2nd B division.

- All three teams are owned by the same board.
- All three teams share the scouts, training facilities etc and have their own budget but everything is paid by the same board.
- Each team has it's own coach and training staff, but they follow the directions given by the parent team coach and staff.
- B and C teams are formed by the young prospects that if good enough, will go up from C to B and/or to parent as they develop.

Here come now the problems in FM:

- In real life, it's FB Barcelona staff who signs or release players and who decides which ones are promoted or demoted between the three teams. If a signed player is not developed enough to play in the main team, he is demoted to the appropriate B or C team and if he is good enough, he can be called up from those B/C teams, but it's the FC Barcelona coach and staff who decide that, the B and C teams coaches and staff just work with the players they are assigned, but never sign new players or release them and for sure never sell them.

The problem with FM is that B and C teams "do not know" that they are just part of the main team with the function to develop young players. They want to win so they sign players on their own, sometimes old veterans that end ruining the prospects not getting playing time and expending the main team budget on veterans on high salaries. Sometimes they also release or sell young prospects on their own, etc.

At the end it ruins the realism when you see B/C teams full of veterans, young players underdeveloped and not getting playing time, and even worse, sometimes even sold or released. Some B/C teams also end ruining the parent team finances with those veteran players salaries or signings. As the seasons advance, it gets worse and worse, specially for small teams that can't develop their young players and that even go bankrupt because the B teams are expending the main teams budget on their own.

Imagine reserve teams in England signing their own players or releasing the players that you send to them to gain experience or playing time.

- Another bug is that even when B teams have their own coaches, the players don't know it, so if their coach do not play them or gives them a bad talk, they get angry at the parent team coach!

- Another big bug, B and C teams suffer takeovers in the game, that is not possible as they are part of the same organization than the parent team.

How should it be done?
Exactly like reserve teams in England, that are part of the main team and have no decision power at all. The only difference is that they are part of the official league system, can promote or demote etc with just one limitation, the B team can't ever promote to the same or superior division of the parent team, same with the C team.

It used to be that way until FM08 if i remember well, but then SI changed how B/C teams behave in FM so humans could chose to play as coaches of those teams, making them separate identities but somewhat linked to the main team, but as it was not done properly, it created the current mess where B/C teams are a weird mix of reserves/independent feeders/youth teams.

For more info visit the thread about Spanish league bugs at SI and read the posts #64, #68, #69, #72, #80:

Spanish league issues (http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/230010-Spain-(Official)-League-Specific-Issues)

More info about it:
Future Improvement on B/C/... Team System (http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/243360-Future-Improvement-on-B-C-...-Team-System?)

Those bugs were already reported for FM11 but where not fixed or where made even worse, here you can see the thread about it:
Will-B-Team-issues-be-resolved-for-FM11? (http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/224347-Will-B-Team-issues-be-resolved-for-FM11?)

[Icy]

Dola, please don't see that long and maybe too passionate thread as a big critic to FM.

FM is my favorite all time game that i have been playing since CM Italy in like 1986 and have never skipped a version. It's just that being from Spain and considering the Spanish league one of the strongest in the world, i hate to not to want to coach in Spain because those issues as soon as i find them again and again since FM08.

[Marc Vaughan]

Icy, I'll try and check those issues on FM2012 in the near future and if they still exist I'll mention them to the chaps on the PC version next time I'm over in London ...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Perhaps it's been announced and I missed it. New version coming for the iPhone anytime soon?

I'll admit. I check for the pre-load option on Steam every couple of days. It's sad. :)

[Marc Vaughan]

Perhaps it's been announced and I missed it. New version coming for the iPhone anytime soon?
A new iPhone version will be out before christmas, but there isn't a public release date for it yet I'm afraid.

(trust me I'm really impatient for it to be made public, there are some neat new features in FMHi 2012 and I'm not allowed to talk about them yet ... grrrr ..... ;) )

[sovereignstar v2]

From Miles:

#FM12 is officially gold & will release on Oct 21. Demo still planned for the weekend - if that changes, I'll tweet about it.

[fortheglory]

I just pre-ordered. It will be my first FM. I hope it's worth it. I have found myself getting bored with pc games of late. Maybe I'm just getting old and don't like games as much as I used to.

[SackAttack]

Maybe I'm just getting old

At the rate of ~365 days per year. Correct. :D

[Marc Vaughan]

I just pre-ordered. It will be my first FM. I hope it's worth it. I have found myself getting bored with pc games of late. Maybe I'm just getting old and don't like games as much as I used to.

Please let me know how you get on - I'm always intrigued by feedback to people new to our games.

[fortheglory]

I will

[Grim.Reaper]

Probably a dumb question, but I will ask anyway. I see Steam is required for the game. However, I noticed Gamersgate is offering 2012 for pre-order. Does that mean you can download the main files from Gamersgate and then somehow just activate via Steam? Wasn't entirely sure how this will work. I prefer Gamersgate downloads since I can download the entire setup file and save offline in case I ever need to install again without having to download again.

Thanks!

[sovereignstar v2]

FWIW, Steam has a backup and restore option. You just back up the game to a folder, then if you need to reinstall at some point you log into Steam and do a restore and point to the folder.

[Barkeep49]

I just pre-ordered. It will be my first FM. I hope it's worth it. I have found myself getting bored with pc games of late. Maybe I'm just getting old and don't like games as much as I used to.
I've invested more time in FM11 than any other game I've ever played and I was new to the series in 10 (which would also have to rank among the most time I've played a game). I found this thread a huge help as I was getting used to the game and it will be interesting to hear what someone new thinks of the tutorial system they're implementing.

[Ryan S]

Demo out now. Apparently it could take up to an hour before it is available in all regions.

Site Error (http://store.steampowered.com/app/901788/)

[DaddyTorgo]

Yeah - not available in US yet. I just woke up and checked Steam figuring it'd be today, and don't see it, but the SI website says it's out.

Waiting patiently.

[Big Fo]

Sweet, glad I opened up FOFC during lunch. The download will be completed well before I get home from work.

If you can't find it, just enter steam://install/71280# into your web browser.

[Marc Vaughan]

Typical I nip in here to let you chaps know about the demo and you've already beaten me to it ;) :D

[DaddyTorgo]

Sweet, glad I opened up FOFC during lunch. The download will be completed well before I get home from work.

If you can't find it, just enter steam://install/71280# into your web browser.

Fuck - how'd you find that. Been trying for the last hour. I <3 you right now.

[Marc Vaughan]

Fuck - how'd you find that. Been trying for the last hour. I <3 you right now.

We're trying to ensure its tweeted, twittered and posted everywhere as the replication for Steam is being a bit tardy with updating at present ...

(but as I mentioned you chaps beat me to it here :D)

[spleen1015]

Gonna give this demo a whirl even though I don't know jack about soccer.

[Sweed]

d'loading now. Started out so slow, 200kbs or less. Has now jumped up to ~700-900 kbs, much better.

Had planned on skipping a year with 11 being so good. Yeah, say that almost every year:) I'll be damned though every year they add just enough to bring me in again. .

[spleen1015]

What do you guys recommend as a newbie approach for this?

My extent of soccer knowledge is just watching USA WC matches.

[MrBug708]

Start with a big team so you have money to work with. Either a giant in England, Spain, or Italy. Assume you might fail and don't get frustrated if you do. If you succeed, so be it. Tactics, I would just go with what you have or the basic 442 to start with.

[MacroGuru]

Just remoted into my home machine and started the Demo download so it will be available for when I get home...Hell, I have barely had time to play with FM 2011

[DaddyTorgo]

T-minus one minute to demo...!!! Unfortunately I won't get to spend significant time with it until I get some of the down-time at this bachelor party this weekend...

[DaddyTorgo]

Typical I nip in here to let you chaps know about the demo and you've already beaten me to it ;) :D

Hehehe:D

[MrBug708]

Like the features, it's just going to have to get used to the location of some things

[DaddyTorgo]

GAME ON MOFO!!!!!

[SirFozzie]

Typical I nip in here to let you chaps know about the demo and you've already beaten me to it ;) :D

Don't consider us FM-Stalkers, Marc.. just consider us "Highly enthused Football Manager followers" ;)

[spleen1015]

This is a little intimidating.

[MrBug708]

Just go slow. As I said, it's overwhelming but there is a lot of meat to the game

[DaddyTorgo]

This is a little intimidating.

Use the tutorial and the tips. The tutorial has gotten a lot of work lately I believe.

And don't feel free to ask us whatever questions you want to obviously. We've all been there intimidated. Hell...I was so intimidated my first time playing a demo that I put it down and didn't come back to it for years. Worst decision of my gaming life IMO.

[MrBug708]

Marc, I'm cautiously ecstatic based on something I see. What does "Handle Youth Intake Selection" mean? I'm hoping it has to do with the amount of new kids that end up on a team when a season turns over?

[SirFozzie]

Marc, I'm cautiously ecstatic based on something I see. What does "Handle Youth Intake Selection" mean? I'm hoping it has to do with the amount of new kids that end up on a team when a season turns over?

Bug:

See this post for more on this feature:

Front Office Football Central - View Single Post - The Football Manager 2012 pre-release thread (Demo Out 10/6!) (http://operationsports.com/fofc/showpost.php?p=2528446&postcount=16)

[DaddyTorgo]

Woot - just made myself the better part of an hour to take a crack at the demo!

[Tim Tellean]

I can't transfer my '11 file to '12 so until I get fired in '11. I'll hold off. BTW- I pre-purchased '12 and d/led the demo.
How can I get myself fired real fast :)

[MrBug708]

OMG OMG OMG - Team Meeting!

[DaddyTorgo]

Wait what...team meetings? cool!

i didn't watch any of the video blogs (cuz I usually read the blogs from work), so I wasn't expecting that.

Default transfer and loan policies - yay!!

[MrBug708]

Bug:

See this post for more on this feature:

Front Office Football Central - View Single Post - The Football Manager 2012 pre-release thread (Demo Out 10/6!) (http://operationsports.com/fofc/showpost.php?p=2528446&postcount=16)

Gracias! Too bad the demo won't make it that far, I really want to try it! Like REALLY want to try it. I save/reload so many times until I get a great crop of youth kids. The fact that they could come overseas (as newgens) with some relationship, is amazing!

[MrBug708]

Wait what...team meetings? cool!

i didn't watch any of the video blogs (cuz I usually read the blogs from work), so I wasn't expecting that.

Yes! I did it with Aresenal in the preseason and I selected the kind of speak I went with Assertively that I we missed winning last year but this is a new year and we'll work harder to achieve our goals. 7 different players had something to say in return (all positively). I asked RVP what he thought and he said Yes, let's make this a memorable one! (The other 6 had nothing else to say after that). I responded that it was the reaction I was looking for and everyone reacted positively to my response

[MrBug708]

I also just requested a trial day!

[SirFozzie]

Let's get the joke out of the way now.

How do I tell Bayern Munich that while there's nothing wrong with it, I'll have to decline.....

(for those who are having problems getting it to load, the line is "Weiser offers FC Bayern's Butt", and it involves Hans-Jorg Butt's agent sending me a "Hey, my guy could be available message)

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7996/badjoke.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/209/badjoke.jpg/)

[DaddyTorgo]

Nit: why can't I request a report from the scouting pool from the "report" section of the profile? Why should I have to go up to the button at the top and do it from there?

[Sweed]

Just moving around the game without really doing anything. I have to say the player cards ARE A THING OF BEAUTY! So much info on the default screen and customizable too. Just picked up a new 23" monitor a couple of weeks ago so not sure how much different it would be on the old 20" but on the new monitor I can show every option except one. Sweet.

Also very cool, in the preferences you can now change attribute colors on the fly without having to tinker with an xml file.

As MrBug708 said, it's going to take a bit to get used to the location of things. Damn, sure would be nice to have a week off when the game releases.

[fortheglory]

The 3d is choppy. Any reason for this?

[Sweed]

This is a little intimidating.

Use the tutorial and the tips. The tutorial has gotten a lot of work lately I believe.

And don't feel free to ask us whatever questions you want to obviously. We've all been there intimidated. Hell...I was so intimidated my first time playing a demo that I put it down and didn't come back to it for years. Worst decision of my gaming life IMO.

Yeah, I think most of us USA players were intimidated with our first FM game. Hell, I tried the demo for two years running only to quickly quit. Then I bought 2006 and stuck with it. Felt totally clueless but between FOFC, MarcV, and the SI boards (they were actually quite nice answering my questions, there's really quite a few Brits that are more than happy to help out a Yank trying to get a grasp on the beautiful game:)) I was able to get over the hump. It's a lot to digest when you have to learn both the game of football and also player movement(transfers), signings, handling your players, the media, fan expectations, etc. etc.

In the end it is well worth the effort. I have played most of the text sims out there and they are great games. I get more mileage out of OOTP only because I was raised in the US and have always loved baseball. However nothing touches FM when it comes to giving you the feeling you are dealing with real people, in a real world, with leagues that go all the way down to semi-pro (playable) teams.

Stick with it.

[DaddyTorgo]

Just moving around the game without really doing anything. I have to say the player cards ARE A THING OF BEAUTY! So much info on the default screen and customizable too. Just picked up a new 23" monitor a couple of weeks ago so not sure how much different it would be on the old 20" but on the new monitor I can show every option except one. Sweet.

Also very cool, in the preferences you can now change attribute colors on the fly without having to tinker with an xml file.

As MrBug708 said, it's going to take a bit to get used to the location of things. Damn, sure would be nice to have a week off when the game releases.

I said this to Foz - the new player cards are AWESOME

[fortheglory]

Yeah, I think most of us USA players were intimidated with our first FM game. Hell, I tried the demo for two years running only to quickly quit. Then I bought 2006 and stuck with it. Felt totally clueless but between FOFC, MarcV, and the SI boards (they were actually quite nice answering my questions, there's really quite a few Brits that are more than happy to help out a Yank trying to get a grasp on the beautiful game:)) I was able to get over the hump. It's a lot to digest when you have to learn both the game of football and also player movement(transfers), signings, handling your players, the media, fan expectations, etc. etc.

In the end it is well worth the effort. I have played most of the text sims out there and they are great games. I get more mileage out of OOTP only because I was raised in the US and have always loved baseball. However nothing touches FM when it comes to giving you the feeling you are dealing with real people, in a real world, with leagues that go all the way down to semi-pro (playable) teams.

Stick with it.

I am new to this genre of games, and am wondering if OOTP is better than Football Manager. Never played OOTP, and just got the demo for this. I don't want to play both, but just one of them. Which do you recommend?

[Radii]

I am new to this genre of games, and am wondering if OOTP is better than Football Manager. Never played OOTP, and just got the demo for this. I don't want to play both, but just one of them. Which do you recommend?

FM is better that any other text sim by light years. FM may be too overwhelming for many people, there's an unbelievable amount of things to do, attributes to understand, people to manage. But that depth makes it brilliant. There's a big learning curve, even bigger for many of us in the US who don't consume soccer at the same level many Europeans do, but the payoff if it clicks for you is nothing short of spectacular.

[Miller Time]

I am new to this genre of games, and am wondering if OOTP is better than Football Manager. Never played OOTP, and just got the demo for this. I don't want to play both, but just one of them. Which do you recommend?

You cannot go wrong with either.

If you are starting FM for the first time, I would recommend taking the game very slow. Learn how to move around and try and understand where everything is situated first. Because there is a large amount of information readily available for you.

Do not get bogged down with the tactics portion of the game just yet, pick a simple 442 or 451 and lightly tinker with things during your friendlies. I have been playing the game for 13 years and I still struggle with the tactics part of the game.

I would also suggest staring with a Man City/United/Chelsea/Liverpool type club. You'll have deep squads and some money to play around with.

Lastly, ask lots of questions, usually someone will respond pretty quick.

[DaddyTorgo]

"View key attributes" toggle on player profiles = a nice shortcut, particularly for the newer players. I like how you can really dial it in also, with exact positions and mentalities. Nice to have it on the player screen rather than just on the tactics screen where it was last year.

Director's Camera is fun view.

Hopefully we get more use of the "offside line" because I always enjoy seeing that, and it's realistic, seeing as we see it like 10-12 times a game sometimes it feels like in real life.

[Marc Vaughan]

The 3d is choppy. Any reason for this?

There are a myriad of settings for it - give them a play it should help, normally its to do with people having a VERY high resolution and full-screen without dropping the rendering a little ..

[Marc Vaughan]

I am new to this genre of games, and am wondering if OOTP is better than Football Manager. Never played OOTP, and just got the demo for this. I don't want to play both, but just one of them. Which do you recommend?

I'd recommend them both personally - they're very different games played in a slightly different manner; but both good imho.

(if you want a test 'dip' into OOTP and have an iPhone/iTouch/iPad - download iOOTP and give that a whirl? ... their HD iPad skin for it just came out ... similarly there is FMH available on those platforms which is a faster/less intense/slimmed down version of FM ... although be warned that is very much 'my baby' so I'm kinda biased about it ;))

[fortheglory]

I'd recommend them both personally - they're very different games played in a slightly different manner; but both good imho.

(if you want a test 'dip' into OOTP and have an iPhone/iTouch/iPad - download iOOTP and give that a whirl? ... their HD iPad skin for it just came out ... similarly there is FMH available on those platforms which is a faster/less intense/slimmed down version of FM ... although be warned that is very much 'my baby' so I'm kinda biased about it ;))

In what ways are they different? Which one do you think is deeper/smarter? If this is your baby, I guess you're saying this is the better of the two?

[Sweed]

I am new to this genre of games, and am wondering if OOTP is better than Football Manager. Never played OOTP, and just got the demo for this. I don't want to play both, but just one of them. Which do you recommend?

FM is deeper and gives a more "total real life" experience. IMHO there is no debate about this, it's not even close. That is not a dis of OOTP. OOTP delivers a realistic baseball world but with Markus and Andreas being the only programmers it isn't going to have the depth of FM. IE not as good a newspaper\media model, nor as good a "dealing with real human being" feel to it.

My love of OOTP is due to growing up in the States with baseball. I can't imagine what it would be like to have grown up in Britain with football as my passion and being able to play FM. A lot of my time has been, and still is, spent figuring out intricacies of the game that I imagine are second nature to a Brit.

You can't go wrong with either and if you can swing it I would encourage you to get both. Maybe FM now and OOTP in the spring when 13 comes out.

[Marc Vaughan]

In what ways are they different? Which one do you think is deeper/smarter? If this is your baby, I guess you're saying this is the better of the two?

LOL - Bear in mind I'm biased, I've worked at SI for nearly 15 years now and been involved in creating all our products .... so bear that in mind.

Firstly I think one of the things is that the number of games in a season is higher in baseball than in soccer (football) - that affects the style of how people play the games (ie. its easier to concentrate on a match by match basis on a soccer sim because there are fewer individual games in a season).

FM has a lot of depth - so does OOTP, but they're in different ways and areas - I love the historic leagues being available on OOTP (and would love this to be possible on FM, unfortunately it isn't) and its very customisable in setup ... on the other hand FM is probably more interactive on a personal level with players/media and having the huge myriad of leagues, clubs etc. is kinda neat also ...

As I said neither is 'better' or 'worse' imho - they're both good games in their own right and very different in playing style and approach.

(I'm trying very hard not to be overly biased here ... someone else chime in and save me ;) :D)

[SackAttack]

Crazy how much deeper FM12 looks just at first glance than FM11, and I haven't even gotten to some of the stuff I'm looking forward to, like contract negotiations.

I'm also cautiously optimistic about the fact that FM12 seems to be running faster for me than FM11 did, but I suspect that's because it's a quickstart, and not my usual "England down to L2 with players from other nations added" database.

Less enthused about the fact that matches won't run in the background anymore. No more stepping away to make dinner and leaving FM matches running minimized in the background so I can see if IMs are popping up while I'm away.

[SackAttack]

(I'm trying very hard not to be overly biased here ... someone else chime in and save me ;) :D)

OOTP wants to be FM, but it's too schizophrenic to really drill down and get there.

That's really my only knock on OOTP. There's so many things that Markus wants to do with that game that development of it often feels scattershot. Particularly when there are things that need some TLC, and instead of getting that TLC, we see new features popping up. That can lead to areas in need of redress getting ignored for a few versions.

With FM, it feels like there are specific areas of focus with each version. Instead of throwing everything at the wall and hoping it works out well, different parts of the engine seem to get love with each new version. Not that stuff gets excluded, but that each year you get a lot of little tweaks with the stuff that isn't being focused on, and some real heavy lifting on the stuff that is, if that makes sense.

But for the sound-byte answer, I think FM is the better game, but if OOTP had FM's depth and polish, I'd play that and never give FM a second look. :D

[MrBug708]

The negotiations were nice. The maximum value is the lowest available drop down menu option, unlike previous versions. And if you lock a certain part of the contract, like salary per week, you will see other aspects go up drastically

[Big Fo]

A tip for any people new to the game and looking to sign some players/play around with negotiations during the six months of the demo: If you negotiate monthly payments on a transfer fee and don't just pay a lump sum up front, only the first 12 months of payments count against that year's transfer budget. And since the demo only lasts 12 months, you don't have to worry about next year's budget being affected.

[illinifan999]

Less enthused about the fact that matches won't run in the background anymore. No more stepping away to make dinner and leaving FM matches running minimized in the background so I can see if IMs are popping up while I'm away.

Wait...what? I realize I'm missing something glaringly obvious, but can you elaborate on this?

[SackAttack]

Wait...what? I realize I'm missing something glaringly obvious, but can you elaborate on this?

When I play FM11, I can alt-tab out of it while a match is running to do other things - have Firefox or AIM or whatever in the foreground. I can alt-tab back to check on progress throughout the match, and it will have progressed. How far depends on system resources and the amount of time elapsed, but progressed nonetheless.

FM12, at least so far, if I alt-tab out, I can be doing other things for 15 minutes, and when I flip back, the match is at the precise point I left it.

[fortheglory]

The demo seems very deep...I want to learn what's going on though. Where how can I learn about football details? I want to jump in with both feet. Is there a manual?...will it help if there is? What are the best online resources to get myself deep into the game?

[Critch]

I've got it running windowed stretched to the full screen and I can alt-tab and the game keeps running. In fact I'm doing it right now!

[RPI-Fan]

The demo seems very deep...I want to learn what's going on though. Where how can I learn about football details? I want to jump in with both feet. Is there a manual?...will it help if there is? What are the best online resources to get myself deep into the game?

There is a tutorial. I would start a game with Man United (or similar) on the demo, using the tutorial, and come back here once you have questions!

[RPI-Fan]

I've got it running windowed stretched to the full screen and I can alt-tab and the game keeps running. In fact I'm doing it right now!

Yep - not sure what the big deal is, or why anyone would play full screen when windowed is available.

[fortheglory]

There is a tutorial. I would start a game with Man United (or similar) on the demo, using the tutorial, and come back here once you have questions!

I looked through the tutorials...my problem is I don't really know much about the sport itself.

[RPI-Fan]

I looked through the tutorials...my problem is I don't really know much about the sport itself.

I'd just play thru the tutorials, and the soccer stuff will sort itself out as you go. There's not much you really need to know; the attributes are equally intuitive (or un-intuitive) whether or not you actually know about soccer. Keep your tactic to 4-4-2 +/- 1 at each row.

[Marc Vaughan]

I looked through the tutorials...my problem is I don't really know much about the sport itself.

If in doubt initially - just leave it at a bog standard 4-4-2 with tactics and use the assistant to pick your team before each match ...

Treat the game as a 'trading/business' sim to some extent initially while you find your feet - look for players who are better than the ones you have (coach/scout reports will help in this regard a lot).

Turn on the 'assistant' manager handling the pre-match interviews, team talks and suchlike.

As you play through watch the talks your coach gives and the players your coaches select and remember them, also watch when a coach drops a player and think 'why' - normally it'll be either because they're injured, on bad form, unhappy or tired (or somethings a combination of these) ... this will help you make your own decisions when you're a bit more familiar with things.

[Big Fo]

As a test, I told the team I was pleased (in a calm manner) when 2-0 up at halftime. We didn't implode in the second half like my teams would have on the past few versions.

[fortheglory]

this game actually seems easy...my team has scored multiple goals in friendly games.

[Blade6119]

A tip for any people new to the game and looking to sign some players/play around with negotiations during the six months of the demo: If you negotiate monthly payments on a transfer fee and don't just pay a lump sum up front, only the first 12 months of payments count against that year's transfer budget. And since the demo only lasts 12 months, you don't have to worry about next year's budget being affected.
Ive always felt like this was cheating, but maybe thats just me

[henry296]

this game actually seems easy...my team has scored multiple goals in friendly games.

Since friendlies are exhibitions often your team plays against teams that are much worse. Check the pre-match odds and see if your team is favored and the post-match comments about how well you did vs. expectations.

[Big Fo]

Ive always felt like this was cheating, but maybe thats just me

In the demo, I guess so. But in a multiyear career doing transfers like this will affect future budgets.

[sovereignstar v2]

this game actually seems easy...my team has scored multiple goals in friendly games.

http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/954-not-sure-if-serious.jpg

[SackAttack]

I've got it running windowed stretched to the full screen and I can alt-tab and the game keeps running. In fact I'm doing it right now!

Trade-off, I guess. Doing it that way is allowing the game to progress for me, but the action is awfully hitchy when I do watch.

Guess I can't have it both ways.

[SackAttack]

Ah, solution. Window it, stretched to the full screen, turn the speed down from max to one notch below max. Hitch disappears.

[Barkeep49]

Less enthused about the fact that matches won't run in the background anymore. No more stepping away to make dinner and leaving FM matches running minimized in the background so I can see if IMs are popping up while I'm away.

Boo to this. I'm glad I've now read something in this thread which makes me feel better about holding off.

[RPI-Fan]

Boo to this. I'm glad I've now read something in this thread which makes me feel better about holding off.

Why the insistence on not running windowed mode?

[Pumpy Tudors]

I didn't realize that people were getting up and leaving the computer while their match was running. Of course, I'm comparing it to real life. I'm just imagining a manager letting his team play while he runs off to Wal-Mart to pick up a few things. "You guys keep playing! I'll be back in a bit!"

[SirFozzie]

Miles with the Judge Smalls reference on twitter:

MilesSI
There are over 10,000 people currently playing the #FM12 demo. Haven't you got jobs/school that you should be doing?

[Barkeep49]

Why the insistence on not running windowed mode?
No real resistance. I just hadn't gotten that far in thread (was on a different page) and I'm looking for reasons to stay strong and not buy 12 yet :).

[Barkeep49]

I didn't realize that people were getting up and leaving the computer while their match was running. Of course, I'm comparing it to real life. I'm just imagining a manager letting his team play while he runs off to Wal-Mart to pick up a few things. "You guys keep playing! I'll be back in a bit!"
This was mostly for parts of Exhibition or Cup games I didn't care about, or when I wanted to do a quick galance of email while a corner kick was setting up.

[Pumpy Tudors]

This was mostly for parts of Exhibition or Cup games I didn't care about, or when I wanted to do a quick galance of email while a corner kick was setting up.
Fair enough.

[sovereignstar v2]

Very nice to see the player card full of more information. Large resolution users saw nothing but acres of unused space previously. Just noticed the new loan-related search filters - 'Unrealistc fee paying loans' and 'Unrealistc regular loans'. Think that's a nice touch. I remember someone from FOFC asking for something like this previously.

[PraetorianX]

Lots of nifty little things that they didn't touch on in the blogs/podcasts, like usual.

I noticed that you can adjust the intensity of individual training, which is cool. I'm going to have to look into that eventually. Lots of other nice tweaks.

[DaddyTorgo]

Lots of nifty little things that they didn't touch on in the blogs/podcasts, like usual.

I noticed that you can adjust the intensity of individual training, which is cool. I'm going to have to look into that eventually. Lots of other nice tweaks.

What sort of nifty things are you noticing?

[path12]

But for the sound-byte answer, I think FM is the better game, but if OOTP had FM's depth and polish, I'd play that and never give FM a second look. :D

I've always thought that OOTP is the result of what it would have been like if an American had originally developed FM.

That is not a slight on Marcus in any way or his baseball knowledge, but I think there is a different way that he sees the game having followed it from afar. Much like we in America following the EPL as compared to the Brits.

As for the two games I appreciate OOTP but believe that FM is the best sports simulation ever made.

[Marc Vaughan]

No real resistance. I just hadn't gotten that far in thread (was on a different page) and I'm looking for reasons to stay strong and not buy 12 yet :).

Give into the dork-side young padawan ... you know you want to ;)

Besides - we have cookies :D

[henry296]

I know this is the FM12 thread, but I had to share my disappointment in my FM10 game. I started a new one 3 weeks ago in anticipation of FM12 as Frankfurt in the Bundesliga.

It is now the 12-13 season and I've got a good time built around a great young Argentine striker. My gols was to qualify for Europe even though I was picked in the bottom half. I go into the last game in 5th place but a 4 way tie for 5th-8th. My Argentine striker is hurt in the 19th minute, but we go up 1-0 a minute later. I'm following the league table all game and stay in 5th. Around the 80th minute, I bring on another defender and switch my formation, but before it takes place I give up a late equalizer in the 85th minute dropping me to 6th, but I'm still feeling ok about Europe. I get a PK in stoppage time that could clinch a top 6 finish, but it is stopped. When I exit the game, I'm showing in 6th on the table and feeling good. I look at the results and end up in 7th. Gladbach get a penalty in the 93rd minute to win and knock me out.

Now I have a dilemma. Play one more season in this game or go download the FM12 demo.

[SackAttack]

I've always thought that OOTP is the result of what it would have been like if an American had originally developed FM.

That is not a slight on Marcus in any way or his baseball knowledge, but I think there is a different way that he sees the game having followed it from afar. Much like we in America following the EPL as compared to the Brits.

As for the two games I appreciate OOTP but believe that FM is the best sports simulation ever made.

Fair criticism. Probably also true.

Though I think it's also fair to point to the resource disparity. SI have had the backing of first Eidos, then Sega. Had Markus been able to work with SI from the very beginning on OOTP, and were he approaching 10+ years with that partnership, I've no doubt OOTP would be an order of magnitude better than it is currently.

And, like you, I don't mean that as a slight to Markus in any way. He's devoted to his product. He wants it to be the best it can be, and he wants it to do well. I honestly believe that.

But he's one man. I've been on the beta team a handful of times, and every time, it's seemed like there was a delay in the process because of illness. Dude works himself incredibly hard on the product, trying to please everybody (even bastards like me), but it takes its toll, both on the developer and the product.

I wish Markus had the ability to approach things the FM way. I wish he had the kind of resources that would allow him to ship OOTP each year with complete rosters for every professional league of note on the planet. I wish he had the luxury of being able to cycle his releases the way SI used to do with CM, where every few versions you'd have the next 'major' release, but in between, there'd be all kinds of improvements just from tightening the code.

What OOTP often feels like is that in trying to top himself every time out, really cool features that never quite got tightened up like they should have been get set aside for new things in subsequent versions, so you have a bunch of awesome, but incomplete, features as time goes on. And because they weren't tightened up to begin with, you get to the point where there's literally so much to do that it gets overwhelming...but he still have the pressures of delivering on the latest drool features so that he can keep sales where they need to be to keep OOTP successful financially.

To tie all of that back in with what you said originally, I think OOTP is what FM would look like were FM developed by an American, but I don't feel like it's necessarily a given that it had to be that way.

[henry296]

Can someone explain the Sporting Play spot? Germany received a spot which got them an extra Euro League spot. I finished 7th and Levervuesen which was the runner-up in the German Cup got the spot over me.

This is FM10 and is this working correctly?

[Barkeep49]

Sporting Play is a slot given to a country because of its discipline record. Once a country gets the slot, the team in that country with the best discipline record is awarded the actual berth.

[cody8200]

I wish SI would release a demo that included the MLS. It is really the only league I play in and has had quite a few problems in the past because of its unique rules. Please consider it in future releases. Hopefully I can get some perspective on how well it plays from reading the views of some other MLS players. Otherwise I will probably wait a long while to buy.

[Icy]

Love the huge amount of info added to each screen on large resolutions.

The tactics and players screens are the best example, all the info is available at first sight, no more need to click back and forth between 2 or 3 screens to work on tactics or decide lineups.

I'm considering to start a serious career with the demo. I never did in the past as the initial selection of leagues/countries was set for the rest of your game, and i consider it too small/limited in the demo quickstarts that are based only in one country, but as this year we can add more countries/leagues on the fly later in the career, i guess we can keep playing the demo career once the full game has been released and to add more countries/leagues later, am i right?

[sovereignstar v2]

I wish SI would release a demo that included the MLS. It is really the only league I play in and has had quite a few problems in the past because of its unique rules. Please consider it in future releases. Hopefully I can get some perspective on how well it plays from reading the views of some other MLS players. Otherwise I will probably wait a long while to buy.

They haven't gotten the MLS right in any previous versions. Chances are...

[Big Fo]

I'm considering to start a serious career with the demo. I never did in the past as the initial selection of leagues/countries was set for the rest of your game, and i consider it too small/limited in the demo quickstarts that are based only in one country, but as this year we can add more countries/leagues on the fly later in the career, i guess we can keep playing the demo career once the full game has been released and to add more countries/leagues later, am i right?

I could add all the leagues I want but there would still be far too few players in the database to play in them.

[henry296]

Sporting Play is a slot given to a country because of its discipline record. Once a country gets the slot, the team in that country with the best discipline record is awarded the actual berth.

Thanks. I didn't realize how the team from that country was selected. I thought it was just the next best team.

[kingfc22]

Finally have time today to try this out and the DL link is down :(

Any workarounds?

[Qrusher14242]

so far, pretty awesome. Only thing i'm not liking is the tactic screen. Takes more clicks to do what i did before. Like i wanted to view players attributes, all i had to was click on the name, but now i have to go up to 'Player Instructions' and then go and select the guy. Liked it the way it was before. Hopefully a skin can fix it.

[sovereignstar v2]

Finally have time today to try this out and the DL link is down :(

Any workarounds?

The link? Aren't you using Steam?

[samifan24]

Is this a Steam only release this year? I haven't seen anything about a physical boxed version anywhere.

[SirFozzie]

There are boxed releases, but to play the game you will need to activate through steam anyway.

[Critch]

so far, pretty awesome. Only thing i'm not liking is the tactic screen. Takes more clicks to do what i did before. Like i wanted to view players attributes, all i had to was click on the name, but now i have to go up to 'Player Instructions' and then go and select the guy. Liked it the way it was before. Hopefully a skin can fix it.

In the tactics screen there's a little i in front of the players name, hover over that and the players attributes are shown in a pop-up box. Pretty nifty.

Overall it doesnt seem like there's that much new from the last version, it's all just better presented and laid out, and some existing features have been polished. I like the player chats a whole lot better now. The new 3d is better, the stadiums and fans look a whole lot better and I'm glad the over-the-top goal celebrations for each and every goal are gone.

I was half thinking of skipping this version, or at least waiting for a sale, but I've pressed the pre-order button after playing the demo. So much for self control.

[SunDevil]

There are boxed releases, but to play the game you will need to activate through steam anyway.

Yep. Count me in the minority of NEVER wanting to use Steam for anything. I will stick to playing FM11 unless they come up with a way to play FM12 without steam.

[MacroGuru]

Yep. Count me in the minority of NEVER wanting to use Steam for anything. I will stick to playing FM11 unless they come up with a way to play FM12 without steam.

Announcement has already been made they won't go that route.

[sovereignstar v2]

In the tactics screen there's a little i in front of the players name, hover over that and the players attributes are shown in a pop-up box. Pretty nifty.

I think Qrusher wants the attributes that pertain to each role to be highlighted (like what you see in the player instructions screen). At least that's the only way his complaint makes any sense to me.

[Qrusher14242]

I think Qrusher wants the attributes that pertain to each role to be highlighted (like what you see in the player instructions screen). At least that's the only way his complaint makes any sense to me.

yeah, before on the tactics screen you could just click on the player on the pitch and and it would bring up his attributes and show if he will be good in a certain role. Now all of that is on the Player Instructions screen. Not too bad i guess, but just takes longer to get it done.

the team talks seem more complicated now the different tones i have to use. It seems like im just rolling the dice on which will work or not. Although telling them i have faith in them seems to work most time. Thats the safest one i have found.

[DaddyTorgo]

I like the "motivation" bit on the halftime talk that lets you know how well a player is playing. Just saw that one of my guys is "in danger of being booked."

Thought that was cool.

[SackAttack]

I like the "motivation" bit on the halftime talk that lets you know how well a player is playing. Just saw that one of my guys is "in danger of being booked."

Thought that was cool.

And, as it turns out, that's sort of in FM11 already.

If you look at the live feedback during the game - I got that exact notification in the 2nd half of a game earlier.

[TroyF]

Yep. Count me in the minority of NEVER wanting to use Steam for anything. I will stick to playing FM11 unless they come up with a way to play FM12 without steam.

I bought FM11 on steam, so no difference for me.

I happen to like steam and own a lot of games on that format, but for the new version of FM, I'd likely do just about anything short of starforce protection.

[DaddyTorgo]

No firm evidence, but I feel like the 3d is improved this year and I'm just seeing (from watching "extended" highlights only at this point mind you) a greater variety of balls played and reactions and such.

[SackAttack]

Honestly, when I first started using Steam, I was in kind of the same boat. Didn't mind digital acquisition, but the idea of 'having' to use it to acquire a game rubbed me the wrong way.

Then I had to rebuild my computer last month and with most of the games I'd been playing having been games I'd gotten via Steam, I had kind of a 'why did I ever have a problem with this?' epiphany.

[PraetorianX]

Yep. Count me in the minority of NEVER wanting to use Steam for anything. I will stick to playing FM11 unless they come up with a way to play FM12 without steam.

I honestly don't get it.

Why do you refuse to use Steam? It doesn't really eat up much in terms of resources, it doesn't take much space on your HD, and you barely even have to see it unless you want to.

All you have to do is activate it via Steam and keep Steam on the computer, but you don't even have to have Steam connected to the internet. And if you do have it connected to the internet, and your internet connection goes out, it doesn't matter as the game will continue playing just as it had.

[Shepp]

I've never cared for Steam because its the "Big Brother" always running in the background. I always preferred Impulse and Gamersgate because you only had to run them when you downloaded your games. However, I've resigned myself to the fact that if I want to play games like Civ 5 and Fallout: New Vegas that I'm stuck using Steam.

[Blackadar]

I'm a big fan of the series since around 10 years ago. I think my first version was 01 or something like that. I've picked up '08, '09, '10 and '11 in recent years. I've always appreciated the way Marc supported his game here.

But I don't think I'm getting this version. I tried it last night and didn't feel it. I didn't like the new interface changes to be candid - it felt a bit confusing. But I could have gotten around that if there were any must have new features, but there didn't seem to be. The new features felt extraneous. Conversational tone? Bah. Improved match engine? Ok, but not really that important. The ability to turn leagues off and on is nice, but again isn't critical. The new contract features don't do that much for me. I like the scouting improvements, but not enough to fork over more dough.

Maybe next year. In the meanwhile, I'll continue to play '11.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm a big fan of the series since around 10 years ago. I think my first version was 01 or something like that. I've picked up '08, '09, '10 and '11 in recent years. I've always appreciated the way Marc supported his game here.

But I don't think I'm getting this version. I tried it last night and didn't feel it. I didn't like the new interface changes to be candid - it felt a bit confusing. But I could have gotten around that if there were any must have new features, but there didn't seem to be. The new features felt extraneous. Conversational tone? Bah. Improved match engine? Ok, but not really that important. The ability to turn leagues off and on is nice, but again isn't critical. The new contract features don't do that much for me. I like the scouting improvements, but not enough to fork over more dough.

Maybe next year. In the meanwhile, I'll continue to play '11.

Conversational tone and halftime motivational talks are huge IMO. It really makes you have to think about that side of things and how to motivate your team better.

[TroyF]

Conversational tone and halftime motivational talks are huge IMO. It really makes you have to think about that side of things and how to motivate your team better.

Agreed on that one.

I picked up Tevez for my Arsenal team. In the first three games, it's been nerve racking trying to figure out what to say to keep him happy.

With the '11 version, I didn't really think a lot about team talks. Maybe I should have more, but using three or four at different times seemed to work just fine. I don't think that'll be the case in this version.

I've heard a lot of people say they don't like the new interface on different boards, but I really like it a lot. I can see so much more information on player cards. I also am liking the team strengths category to see where I'm strong or weak at a simple glance.

So far I'm happy as punch and will be ending my '11 career in the next week or so and getting ready for '12.

[sovereignstar v2]

First version of the Susie Real Names Fix is out.

FM12 Susie Real Names for Clubs, Competitions and Awards Fix - BETA now released - Sortitoutsi.net - Football Manager 2011 Forums (http://sortitoutsi.net/forum/topic/53651-fm12-susie-real-names-for-clubs-competitions-and-awards-fix-beta-now-released/)

[TroyF]

Some questions on FM guys.

1) I probably should have asked this last year before dumping 5 million hours into '11. Let's say you play a 4-2-3-1 and you have that as your main tactic in the match preparation screen. You have two strikers. One is fast as hell and you use him as a poacher. The other is a true target man. Do you have to set up two versions of the 4-2-3-1 with each of those tactics, or does changing a few player roles before the match cause problems?

2) This is specific to FM 12. How often do you hold team meetings in the demo? I remember to have one at the start of the season and then kind of forget about them after that. Should they be held once a month? Once a quarter? Only when things are going south?

I really need them to release this. With Arsenal sucking so bad this year, I need some relief. Ended the '11 career already. I also wish the PR people would let MV talk about the release date and features set of this years portable. I have an Ipad this year and am really looking forward to having FM on it.

[DaddyTorgo]

Some questions on FM guys.

1) I probably should have asked this last year before dumping 5 million hours into '11. Let's say you play a 4-2-3-1 and you have that as your main tactic in the match preparation screen. You have two strikers. One is fast as hell and you use him as a poacher. The other is a true target man. Do you have to set up two versions of the 4-2-3-1 with each of those tactics, or does changing a few player roles before the match cause problems?

2) This is specific to FM 12. How often do you hold team meetings in the demo? I remember to have one at the start of the season and then kind of forget about them after that. Should they be held once a month? Once a quarter? Only when things are going south?

I really need them to release this. With Arsenal sucking so bad this year, I need some relief. Ended the '11 career already. I also wish the PR people would let MV talk about the release date and features set of this years portable. I have an Ipad this year and am really looking forward to having FM on it.

1) I don't think changing player roles will affect their familiarity with the tactics.

2) I have been holding them maybe once a month and I think it's too frequent...my last one had just Del Piero commenting and he said basically "Another team meeting? Oh great." So I'd think maybe more once a quarter or only when things are going south or you're wildly outperforming.

Oh poop - there's a reason to get an IPad vs. an Android tablet...unless there's going to be an Android version...grrr.

[Marc Vaughan]

I also wish the PR people would let MV talk about the release date and features set of this years portable. I have an Ipad this year and am really looking forward to having FM on it.
+1

(I can say that I think people will be very happy with the improvements to this years iOS version ... but I'm embargoed from saying whats in it presently, grr ..... ;) )

[Qrusher14242]

when can you hold a team meeting? every time i tried it just said it wasn't the right time to call a team meeting.

[TroyF]

when can you hold a team meeting? every time i tried it just said it wasn't the right time to call a team meeting.

I usually hold mine about a week before the first game. Haven't tried after that.

OK, I've played the hell out of the demo. Went through every screen I could go through. Here are my likes/dislikes about it thus far. (I apologize in advance if these have been mentioned above)

Likes:

1) The match comparison screen. I love being able to look at how a player played in two matches side by side. This has been especially useful when I tweak a player role to see how much impact it has. I can see myself using this a lot in the preseason when I get new players each year.

2) I love the new transfer centre. It tells you about each of the multiple offers you receive and you can filter through the teams that are offering you all the money up front vs. the ones who have money spread out over 36 months easily.

3) I love the new feature on the scouting page. If you go to "international match reports," you can see the last international game each of your players played. This includes a stats section with key passes, goals, rating, condition, and quick evaluation. This will be much easier to scan through than firing through emails each time.

4) I really like assists being on the end of match stats screen.

5) I like the challenge of the team talks now. A lot more options and I feel like it is more logical. There is a difference between "I'm disappointed" and "don't any of you asses look at me, you all suck" It's easier to make that distinction now.

6) I like MOST of the menu changes. Things like moving from your first team to your reserve team without going through filters. Being able to select midfielders or forwards on a search for players with on click of a button, etc.

Dislikes:

1) There are some menu things I wish were back. Clicking on a guys shirt in the tactics screen used to bring up the critical attributes for the role you had selected. Now to get that you have to go to the player instructions screen. Kind of annoying.

2) The director camera cut annoys me. Too jumpy for my tastes. Easy to just change another view, but I had higher hopes for it.

3) I really dislike the default dark skin. I know the skinmakers will have something out a week after release (or quicker), but I liked the default skins last year.

4) Still seems far too easy to score off of corners. Maybe it's just me.

5) The full game isn't out yet. That's very annoying to me.

[Big Fo]

I like how the player profile now shows all this information on one screen, attributes, contract, position familiarity diagram, etc. But somewhere on there I would like to be able to see whether the player is right foot only, either footed, left footed, etc.

I have scored a ton of goals off corners in the demo (nine in eight league matches), I didn't make any changes to the default settings other than have one centerback do a near post flick-on and the other centerback stand on the far post. Most of these goals were from far post headers.

[Marc Vaughan]

1) There are some menu things I wish were back. Clicking on a guys shirt in the tactics screen used to bring up the critical attributes for the role you had selected. Now to get that you have to go to the player instructions screen. Kind of annoying.
I'll have to check - but I think this might be customisable via. the skinning, in which case you'll probably see custom things come into being which might suit your tastes more.

2) The director camera cut annoys me. Too jumpy for my tastes. Easy to just change another view, but I had higher hopes for it.
I expect this will evolve, strangely the more common complaint from users so far is that it doesn't change enough - I think it might be down to the style of play during matches slightly causing different people to see different strengths/weaknesses in how the camera works .... watch this space during updates/patches for the game.

3) I really dislike the default dark skin. I know the skinmakers will have something out a week after release (or quicker), but I liked the default skins last year.
Skins are always 'suck it and see' style things, you can never please everyone all of the time - I'm sure some custom skins will come out which you like more, tbh for me I kinda like this one .... although I prefer the FMHi 2012 one even more ;)

4) Still seems far too easy to score off of corners. Maybe it's just me.
Out of interest what level are you playing at (club-wise)? ... I think its easier in the lower leagues to organise goals from set-pieces than at the top level myself ....

5) The full game isn't out yet. That's very annoying to me.
Not affecting me so much (its 7th November 2015 in my current (cough) test game :D) ....
(ducks and runs before the mob can catch him)

[TroyF]

I like how the player profile now shows all this information on one screen, attributes, contract, position familiarity diagram, etc. But somewhere on there I would like to be able to see whether the player is right foot only, either footed, left footed, etc.

I have scored a ton of goals off corners in the demo (nine in eight league matches), I didn't make any changes to the default settings other than have one centerback do a near post flick-on and the other centerback stand on the far post. Most of these goals were from far post headers.

It lists right, left or either and will say left or right only if he can only use one foot.

[Big Fo]

Ah, I had to fiddle with the size of the window to make it show up. The last bar in the personal details section (height, weight, "footedness") wasn't showing up before.

Cool.

[BYU 14]

Not affecting me so much (its 7th November 2015 in my current (cough) test game :D) ....
(ducks and runs before the mob can catch him)

Elitist :)

[TroyF]

Marc.

I think the director camera should change more. It's just that when it changes now it jumps right back to regular view within seconds. That's where my "jumpy" comment came from.

I know the skinmakers will do their magic.

As for the corners, I've been playing as Arsenal. I played 6 league games and had 5 goals from corners. This is without editing the set piece tactics in any way. Mertesacker scored 3 of those goals. Djorou the other 2. They were always on the far post.

[TroyF]

November 2015 huh? Some people. . .

[DaddyTorgo]

November 2015 huh? Some people. . .

Seriously.

I just picked up an ipad too, and now I can't wait to play on there too...

[Marc Vaughan]

As for the corners, I've been playing as Arsenal. I played 6 league games and had 5 goals from corners. This is without editing the set piece tactics in any way. Mertesacker scored 3 of those goals. Djorou the other 2. They were always on the far post.

Thats definitely a bug then - everyone know Arsenal should be conceeding more from set-pieces than they score ;)

More seriously as always we'll be monitoring all feedback from users and continue to tune and improve the game going forward - in my game (Conference level) I've found I can score a decent amount by setting up and tuning my set-pieces, but nothing by the way of incredible amounts - after 22 games of this season I've a DC with 6 goals all from set-pieces, but it should be noted that he's considerably above the level of player normally found in the Conference Premier) .. its entirely possible this side of things will be tweaked, but it could just be that you've had a statistical 'freak' and won't score any more for a while.

This happens in real-life frequently where teams go on a 'hot spell' scoring or a striker scores 6 in 4 matches only to then go several matches without getting a sniff at goal, Brighton irl at the moment started the season incredibly hot initially and now appear to be stuttering out a little (only a temporary situation .... I hope :D).

Our match-engine analysis generally uses samples in excess of 1,000 matches (more normally 10,000+) in order to try and determine the difference between a freak statistical situation and a bug in the match engine; this sort of thing is incredibly challenging to tweak and get right ... not least because its vital that freak things CAN happen if the game is to be realistic.

[bulletsponge]

Marc V can i ask a question. what does junior coaching do and how can you improve it? whats the difference between that and youth facilities and youth recruitment?

and which is most responsible for the quality on incoming youth regens?

[TroyF]

Thats definitely a bug then - everyone know Arsenal should be conceeding more from set-pieces than they score ;)

More seriously as always we'll be monitoring all feedback from users and continue to tune and improve the game going forward - in my game (Conference level) I've found I can score a decent amount by setting up and tuning my set-pieces, but nothing by the way of incredible amounts - after 22 games of this season I've a DC with 6 goals all from set-pieces, but it should be noted that he's considerably above the level of player normally found in the Conference Premier) .. its entirely possible this side of things will be tweaked, but it could just be that you've had a statistical 'freak' and won't score any more for a while.

This happens in real-life frequently where teams go on a 'hot spell' scoring or a striker scores 6 in 4 matches only to then go several matches without getting a sniff at goal, Brighton irl at the moment started the season incredibly hot initially and now appear to be stuttering out a little (only a temporary situation .... I hope :D).

Our match-engine analysis generally uses samples in excess of 1,000 matches (more normally 10,000+) in order to try and determine the difference between a freak statistical situation and a bug in the match engine; this sort of thing is incredibly challenging to tweak and get right ... not least because its vital that freak things CAN happen if the game is to be realistic.

That first comment hurt. Just because it is 100% true and we'll struggle to get a top ten finish this year is beyond the point. :)

I realize it's a small sample size, but I felt I had some major success last year without tweaking set pieces as well. Not a major problem though, as long as I keep scoring them. :)

[Blade6119]

But somewhere on there I would like to be able to see whether the player is right foot only, either footed, left footed, etc.

This

[TroyF]

This

BigFo said above it had something to do with his screen resolution or the size of his boxes. I get the feature without any problem, but I'm running in 1080. I don't know if it's an option for you to increase resolution or not.

[riz]

Marc V can i ask a question. what does junior coaching do and how can you improve it? whats the difference between that and youth facilities and youth recruitment?

and which is most responsible for the quality on incoming youth regens?


Junior coaching is the general level of coaching in the club youth scheme for players who are not yet old enough to appear as newgens (ie. pre-newgen youths). You can ask the board to adjust the level of money budgeted for junior coaching in the board interaction.

All three factors play into the quality of newgens coming through the youth scheme, with the junior coaching and recruiting being the major factors and the coaching having a more direct effect than recruiting of the two.

[Big Fo]

This

Assuming you run the game in windowed mode, try stretching the window at the top of your screen. I thought mine was already at the top but it was just a few pixels below that point. After I adjusted things the information showed up.

[Marc Vaughan]

That first comment hurt. Just because it is 100% true and we'll struggle to get a top ten finish this year is beyond the point. :)
Arsenal will easily be top 10 - definitely in Europe imho, but time will tell if they manage to get things together in time to make the Champions League ... don't write them off yet though, a poor start does not a season make.

(and in reverse Brightons 'hot' start doesn't mean I expect us to go up this season ... not that I'd say no to it happening of course, just trying to stay realistic :D)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Pre-purchase bonus is a few Team Fortress 2 outfits/guns. Meh.

[DaddyTorgo]

I need this damn game. Like now. Like crack.

And FWIW I need the handheld version too!! Suppose there's no chance we'll see that before the end of the month (the next time I'm going out of town)?

[Big Fo]

So apparently the game unlocks worldwide at midnight Friday UK time, meaning I'll get it at 7pm on Thursday (East Coast USA). That'd be nice.

[DaddyTorgo]

Oh yeah? Fuckin woohoo

[bulletsponge]

so ive never bought a game of steam so let me get this straight. if i preorder does the game start dl all right now and at 7pm eastern i can play right away?

[SirFozzie]

I don't see the option to preload yet, but since the game is gold, it's a possibility.

[Blade6119]

BigFo said above it had something to do with his screen resolution or the size of his boxes. I get the feature without any problem, but I'm running in 1080. I don't know if it's an option for you to increase resolution or not.

Im actually running 1920 so maybe i need to lower it :eek:

[TroyF]

Im actually running 1920 so maybe i need to lower it :eek:

I'm at 1920 x 1080.

All settings to high.

The only time I don't see the footed option is when I run in windowed mode and shrink the window. If the window is in full screen, I see it fine. Maybe your dpi settings?

Grasping at straws here because I can see it fine as long as I have it full screen.

[jbergey22]

so ive never bought a game of steam so let me get this straight. if i preorder does the game start dl all right now and at 7pm eastern i can play right away?

Steam downloads the game for you and updates all the patches without you having to do a thing as long as you have Steam running in the background. I also preordered but there wasnt a downloadable link at that time so Im not sure if it will be predownloaded for you. You might have to wait a few minutes and play at 7:07EDT:)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

They usually pop up a download link a day or two before release. I'd be surprised if they don't do that for this release as well.

[Icy]

Damn i'm counting the minutes and making a huge effort to not to start a long term game with the demo to continue with the full game as i know i'll regret in the future for using the small database from the quickstart.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm at 1920 x 1080.

All settings to high.

The only time I don't see the footed option is when I run in windowed mode and shrink the window. If the window is in full screen, I see it fine. Maybe your dpi settings?

Grasping at straws here because I can see it fine as long as I have it full screen.

I was wondering this too - can't recall but I don't think I saw it (but I have my DPI bumped up a little...my eyes suck). Will investigate.

[DaddyTorgo]

You might have to wait a few minutes and play at 7:07EDT:)

Unacceptable!! :rant:

[SirFozzie]

Ladies and gentlemen, start your FM12 preloads (if you ordered, restart steam and it should be available for preload)

[bhlloy]

Can you still preorder and get it available for preload? Or am I stuck waiting until official release now?

[SirFozzie]

dunno. I never have the patience to wait that long :D

[bulletsponge]

woohoo time to preload baby!

[DaddyTorgo]

Will preload tonight! WOO!!

Preloading on the work computer now...

[Atocep]

Preloaded

4pm Thursday can not get here soon enough.

[fortheglory]

what is preloading?

[SirFozzie]

preloading: You download all the game files beforehand, meaning when the game is unlocked by Steam, all you have to do is unlock/decrypt the game files and you're ready to play.

[bulletsponge]

preloaded also

[Miller Time]

preloading now also. Very excited!