PING: FOFC Car people

[Suburban Rhythm]

I am coming to land of the all knowing, hoping someone can at least point me in the right direction. (plus I think I have another 2-3 car related posts that got answered)

Mrs SR was out earlier in our 2008 Hyundai Veracruz. Only a few blocks from our house, the battery light came on, and the car became nearly impossible to steer. I drove out in the other car, switched cars with her and drove home about 1/2 mile. Other than the terrible steering, no other major issues. Some noise when accelerating.

So, get in the driveway, pop the hood.

- Power steering resevoir is full, nothing leaking underneath.
- Battery light is the only light remaining on, check engine light is not on.
- Some noise in the engine. Nothing bad, but just sounds "wrong"

Here is the catch.

This car was in an accident about 4 weeks ago, pretty extensive damage (about $10,000). I think the only reason is was not totalled was because it was not quite even 3 years old. We finally got it back Tuesday.

The point of impact was the passenger side, around the front door and wheel well. The power steering resevoir is located on that side of the car.

So...what says FOFC? Any thoughts, advice?

[JediKooter]

Take it back to whoever fixed it.

Not the best advice, but, with it being in an accident that caused that much damage, who knows what could be going on. A short? A kinked power steering fluid hose?

[Suburban Rhythm]

Take it back to whoever fixed it.

Not the best advice, but, with it being in an accident that caused that much damage, who knows what could be going on. A short? A kinked power steering fluid hose?

That is the eventual plan...but 6p on a Friday, the place is closed already.

Holding out hope that someone at FOFC will have a MacGyver like solution involving bubble gum and duct tape :)

[JediKooter]

That is the eventual plan...but 6p on a Friday, the place is closed already.

Holding out hope that someone at FOFC will have a MacGyver like solution involving bubble gum and duct tape :)

Ah darn time zone thing.

I'm wondering if the computer system is also on the same side that was hit. If so, that could be why you are seeing these issues.

[Suburban Rhythm]

(Very) uneducated guess here, but I might have figured it out.

Spoke with a guy from work who knows more than me about cars (which is to say he knows anything).

He asked if the serpentine belt was torn. After finding a flashlight and heading back outside, my unprofessional opinion is the serpentine belt is not torn...because it's not there!

There are two "wheels", not knowing the proper term, I can reach...and spin freely, there is nothing running from one to the other. I can see others, which are also not moving when I am spinning the one I can reach.

To further confirm, Mrs SR said she tried using the A/C yesterday, but it didn't work. The serpentine belt would also power the A/C.

So...I think the WHAT is solved. Now tomorrow, for the HOW and WHY

[JediKooter]

Ahhhhh, stupid serpentine belt!!

It could have knocked one of the pullys enough to loosen the belt up and it was just a matter of time before it came off. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a lonely belt lying somewhere on a road close to where you live or work.

[SteveMax58]

Dam...thats a pretty serious thing to just "forget" to put on.

Never would have thought to tell you to check that it has a serpentine belt (not that I know that much about cars myself, but I have been doing more of my own minor maintenance lately).

[SteveMax58]

Dola...yeah, I guess it probably fell off based after re-reading.

[dzilla77]

I'd take your car to different repair shop if they failed to check the serpentine belt after that severe of an accident.

I suspect it was originally torn and then broke after you got it back.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Ahhhhh, stupid serpentine belt!!

It could have knocked one of the pullys enough to loosen the belt up and it was just a matter of time before it came off. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a lonely belt lying somewhere on a road close to where you live or work.

I had to use my daughter's pink Hello Kitty flashlight to go out and look in the driveway.

If I didn't look so badass carrying that around, I might take a ride (in the working car) and go hunting! :p

Dam...thats a pretty serious thing to just "forget" to put on.

Never would have thought to tell you to check that it has a serpentine belt (not that I know that much about cars myself, but I have been doing more of my own minor maintenance lately).

I don't think it was forgotten, since Tuesday afternoon, the car ran fine, though it hasn't gone all that far-- grocery store, to and from preschool for my son.

I don't know for certain, but maybe it was already worn, and perfect storm of the accident, etc, it snapped after the added stress?

The shop is a little independant place only a few blocks from us, that I've always heard good things about but never needed to use. And they were fantastic with us during the whole saga, so I am giving them the benefit of the doubt.

I was already using a vacation day Monday, so I'll be waiting there at 7:00 for them to open...I am sure they'll be happy to see me back! ;)

[Suburban Rhythm]

I'd take your car to different repair shop if they failed to check the serpentine belt after that severe of an accident.

I suspect it was originally torn and then broke after you got it back.

We were typing at the same time. See above

[JediKooter]

I had to use my daughter's pink Hello Kitty flashlight to go out and look in the driveway.

If I didn't look so badass carrying that around, I might take a ride (in the working car) and go hunting! :p


Haha! Just keep the light in their eyes, they'll never be able to see what color that flashlight is.

[SteveMax58]

Yeah, sounds like they might have put the old one back on. I think they can be a little pricey but more likely they just didnt happen to have another sitting around and thought it looked ok, would be my guess.

[HeavyReign]

Wow I was reading that and thinking it sounds like the serpentine belt but wouldn't have posted cause of my lack of actually knowing anything about cars. I had mine snap a couple times. On my car it was around $30-40 for a new one.

[Lathum]

Contact your insurance company first. Let them know what happened, let them know your plan to go back to that repair shop, and see if they suggest otherwise. At the very least they're immediately aware of further work possibly being needed.

I work for an insurance company, you have zero shot of getting a dime out of them for this.

[Lathum]

I was thinking along the lines of a claim if it's negligence on the part of the repair shop. Let insurance know that this happened very soon after and see if there's anyway to get the additional work/part paid for.

Unless the repair shop is a preferred shop suggested by the insurance company they wouldn't get involved in it. Your insurance company is only responsible for paying for the repairs on your vehicle. It is your choice where you go and once the insurance company determines the cost of repairs and pays out on that anything involving the repairs is between you and the shop.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Unless the repair shop is a preferred shop suggested by the insurance company they wouldn't get involved in it. Your insurance company is only responsible for paying for the repairs on your vehicle. It is your choice where you go and once the insurance company determines the cost of repairs and pays out on that anything involving the repairs is between you and the shop.

It is a preferred shop.

I'm not looking for any sort of additional compensation, just that the work is completed, correctly.

They were already aware the A/C was not working on Thursday, and were looking for a time next week we could drop it off and get a rental for the day. So, the shop is working with us...and I assume it will be the same with this too.

[Lathum]

Sounds like you found a really good place to work with. That's worth more than any amount of money you may have to spend.

yeah it does and it is, trust me, some body shops can be dreadful to work with.

[Lathum]

I lucked out by having a Dad who worked in the car business locally for 40+ years. He had a list of shops he used to jack up prices and convince people to do unnecessary work as well as a list of top notch places that do everything for minimal cost and assume all responsibility for follow up work if necessary. I can't imagine trying to find that info on my own.

yeah, a lot of them are shady, especially in this economy. The problem we have is they put the idea in peoples heads their insurance company is going to try and screw them and cut corners, when the reality is they are gouging and we are paying them out on what it would actually cost to fix the car. They write for unneeded work, higher labor rates, and all new parts when parts are perfectly repairable.

not all shops mind you, but you certainly want to research a shop before you go there.

[terpkristin]

I lucked out by having a Dad who worked in the car business locally for 40+ years. He had a list of shops he used to jack up prices and convince people to do unnecessary work as well as a list of top notch places that do everything for minimal cost and assume all responsibility for follow up work if necessary. I can't imagine trying to find that info on my own.

Are you implying you know a good car shop in the area? :D

/tk

[Suburban Rhythm]

Sounds like you found a really good place to work with. That's worth more than any amount of money you may have to spend.

yeah it does and it is, trust me, some body shops can be dreadful to work with.

Here is an older (2004) article about the place. It is literally blocks from me, so I've known it was there forever.

One of the partners (Winter) has left in the last couple years. The remaining owner is just a plain good guy.

Dental Lab Products | E-Newsletter (http://www.search-autoparts.com/searchautoparts/Shop+Profiles/Liotus--Winter-Body-Shop/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/130422)

Edit: that's pretty a pretty weird title the article is showing!

[CU Tiger]

SR,
Not to unneccessarily alarm you, but you need to be very careful before you drive the car.

Not sure on the Hyundai but most cars that use a single serp. belt also drive the water pump off that same belt. Without the water pump spinning, coolant is not circulating and keeping the engine from overheating and causing massive damage.

This can be compounded because you may not see a high temp or check engine light or even if you have a water temp gauge it may read as high. The water temperature sensor is a submersible probe that will only properly read if submersed in liquid. So if it is high in the jacket water sysetm (as is normal) and the water pump is not circulating it may be dry and not send a proper signal to the gauage/light.

If it were me, Id be calling a wrecker to pull it to them.

Also the reason for the bat light is the alternator is not spinning and recharging the battery. So when the battery drains the ECM and capacitive discharge system will lose electricity and you will be stranded. You may also damage your ECM running it on low juice. At a very minimum if you decide to drive it to the repair shop tomorrow you should put it on a battery charger all day.

[DaddyTorgo]

Unless the repair shop is a preferred shop suggested by the insurance company they wouldn't get involved in it. Your insurance company is only responsible for paying for the repairs on your vehicle. It is your choice where you go and once the insurance company determines the cost of repairs and pays out on that anything involving the repairs is between you and the shop.

My insurance company horror story (fuck you Amica).

I went to a preferred shop to get my car repaired. The repairs came in at like 2x the cost estimated by the insurance company. I had the Chief Fraud Investigator for the region calling me up and accusing me of funny-business in collusion with the body shop, despite the fact that it was a preferred fucking body shop and I hadn't seen the car since it went in the shop.

I believe I got so fed up with it that I just ended up paying the excess. I'll never have anything to do with Amica ever again in my life.

And after that - the body shop did a shit job of putting the engine back together and I had issues afterwards. Got rid of that car soon after.

[terpkristin]

Depends on what you need done.

Well my car is OK for now, but knowing good mechanics in the area is a bonus. I recently had a few issues with vibration when going high speeds. I took it to the place I bought my tires and they said they balanced it, but I was still getting severe vibrations at 55+.

Then I took it to a place near my folks' house (Columbia, MD) which has a decent reputation and they said that the balance was done using the wrong type of weights (really not sure what that means, unless it was inside vs. outside of rim...) and that it was "all fixed." Which it was up to 60 mph but I was still getting vibrations above 60.

I called them back after driving it for a day (actually less than that, it was on the way home first time I got it up above 60 that it was still obviously bad) and said, "My car used to be fun to go fast," and they said to bring it back, which I did, this time they said one of the weights fell off and re-(re-) balanced the tires. I dunno, that last one sounded like an excuse of some sort. I know weights can fall off, but I wouldn't have expected it not drive right out of the shop.

Oh well, it's driving fine now. But I loathe the dealership (every Mazda dealership I've been to in the area blows), so it's always good to know...

/tk

[CU Tiger]

Tk, fwiw there are different types of wheel weights that vary based on the rim lip profile. In the old days of steel wheels and hubcaps all were the same. The lead weights have a clamping action that is hammered over the wheel lip. With newer alloy wheels and everyone trying to have a different look there are several different rim lip profiles of varying widths and depths. So the weights are different to match the rim profile. See here: Wheel Balancing Weights - Passenger Car / Light Trucks - BADA Alloy Wheel Tire Weight (http://www.ammcoats.com/products_bada.aspx?id=218) for what I am failing to explain well, so there is some credence to the shops story.

As for "one fell off" well it does happen unfortunately. I balanced tires for a year and a half while in college at a Michelin tire facility that built oem tires, balanced the wheels and shipped them to manufacturers (Nissan and BMW on the line I world on) so I balance ohhh I don't know we got 45seconds per tire to meet production, 7 days a week 8-12 hours a day a bunch of damn tires....and weights would fall off. QC caught it in a manufacturing environment not so much in a standard repair shop.

[terpkristin]

Tk, fwiw there are different types of wheel weights that vary based on the rim lip profile. In the old days of steel wheels and hubcaps all were the same. The lead weights have a clamping action that is hammered over the wheel lip. With newer alloy wheels and everyone trying to have a different look there are several different rim lip profiles of varying widths and depths. So the weights are different to match the rim profile. See here: Wheel Balancing Weights - Passenger Car / Light Trucks - BADA Alloy Wheel Tire Weight (http://www.ammcoats.com/products_bada.aspx?id=218) for what I am failing to explain well, so there is some credence to the shops story.

As for "one fell off" well it does happen unfortunately. I balanced tires for a year and a half while in college at a Michelin tire facility that built oem tires, balanced the wheels and shipped them to manufacturers (Nissan and BMW on the line I world on) so I balance ohhh I don't know we got 45seconds per tire to meet production, 7 days a week 8-12 hours a day a bunch of damn tires....and weights would fall off. QC caught it in a manufacturing environment not so much in a standard repair shop.

Yeah I know they can fall off, and where on rim it goes makes sense. The end-to-end story doesn't make sense, especially them "balancing it" and then me taking it up to 60 and having an issue on the way home from the shop and them blaming THAT on the fall off.

As far as the type...it's a little more believable (after all it's physics!) but it's odd, given I've always had the same tires (a lot of tires) always from the same place and never had an issue with the balance before, so not sure why all of a sudden when they balanced it they "used the wrong type" except if maybe it was a new dude or something.

But all that said, my car is good (well, as good as Mazda can be...) for now. Sadly, I'm going through new car lust. Having car issues last month isn't helping. :D

/tk

[Suburban Rhythm]

SR,
Not to unneccessarily alarm you, but you need to be very careful before you drive the car.

Not sure on the Hyundai but most cars that use a single serp. belt also drive the water pump off that same belt. Without the water pump spinning, coolant is not circulating and keeping the engine from overheating and causing massive damage.

This can be compounded because you may not see a high temp or check engine light or even if you have a water temp gauge it may read as high. The water temperature sensor is a submersible probe that will only properly read if submersed in liquid. So if it is high in the jacket water sysetm (as is normal) and the water pump is not circulating it may be dry and not send a proper signal to the gauage/light.

If it were me, Id be calling a wrecker to pull it to them.

Also the reason for the bat light is the alternator is not spinning and recharging the battery. So when the battery drains the ECM and capacitive discharge system will lose electricity and you will be stranded. You may also damage your ECM running it on low juice. At a very minimum if you decide to drive it to the repair shop tomorrow you should put it on a battery charger all day.

Thanks CU. I left a message earlier tonight, the shop opens at 7a tomorrow, asking if they'll pick it up.

I drove it about 1/2 mile. Mrs SR didn't make it far from home before this all happened. At the time, I had no guess what it was. Probably not the smartest move, but it was so close to home, I figured I'd get it home.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Update:

I didn't back to this thread in the last couple days.

As expected, it was the belt. They were only able to schedule it for today, but we took it in Monday. Shop picking up the tab on the rental-- which we got a 2010 Mazda CX-9 that I really like.

Since it's my thread, I can threadjack (sort of)...having a minor issue with the other car now.

2001 Hyundai Elantra.

Sunday I changed the passenger side low beam bulb. I noticed it out on Friday.

Fast forward to last night, Mrs SR said the driver side light is now out. It was changed, after burning out, about 9 months ago.

Maybe pure coincidence, but seems odd, especially for the 2nd car that is pretty much used getting to/from work (we are both within about 8 miles of work). A bulb should last longer than 9 months.

A little interwebz research says using too high wattage bulbs could cause it, so I'll need to check further if the Sylvania bulbs I got, per matching to my make/model, are too high wattage than what the manual recommends.

Other than that, any thoughts?

[JediKooter]

For lights. I've always changed both even if only one was out and seem to have something stuck in the back of my mind, that's standard practice, but, I could be wrong. I'd stick with the wattage the manual recommends. You really don't need anything brighter unless you plan on landing aircraft or guiding ships through fog.

[Suburban Rhythm]

For lights. I've always changed both even if only one was out and seem to have something stuck in the back of my mind, that's standard practice, but, I could be wrong. I'd stick with the wattage the manual recommends. You really don't need anything brighter unless you plan on landing aircraft or guiding ships through fog.

Yeah, I am assuming that the Sylvania bulb I am guided to for an 01 Elantra matches the recommended wattage, but that might be bad on my part for assuming that.

[JediKooter]

It happens. :)

Don't feel bad though. For whatever reason, wiper blades give me the hardest time to replace. I can never remember if I need just the blade or the whole assembly.

[CU Tiger]

The only suggestion i Have on the light bulbs is make sure not to touch the glass with your hand. Use a rag or such, otherwise you reduce the life.

[cartman]

My turn to ask the FOFC brain trust for mechanical help.

I consider myself to be an above average shadetree mechanic. I have rebuilt a couple of Austin-Healeys, and have kept my Honda Accord Coupe on the road since 1997. It now has 276,000 miles. I've done all of the maintenance myself on it other than timing belt changes and getting the AC system replaced.

I'm having a strange issue with it that I can't figure out. Last week I noticed that the car was pulling to the right when braking, and if I slammed on the brakes, it sounded like the front right wheel would lock up and ABS wouldn't kick in. I figured it was time to replace the brake calipers, since they were original on the car, and one of them was sticking. I got the new calipers, as well as new brake lines, installed them and bled the system. The car is still pulling to the right when braking. I swapped the rotor and pads to the opposite side to eliminate them as a culprit, and the car still pulls to the right.

Any ideas of things to try?

[cartman]

Got it figured out. Had a self-locking nut go bad on the passenger side radius arm, and it backed itself out. Couldn't really tell anything was wrong when the car was up on jacks, but I started using a pry bar move things around to simulate load, and the right side moved way too far back. So what was happening that when I hit the brakes hard, that put an extra load on the suspension, and since the nut wasn't there to hold the radius arm in place, that allowed it to move towards the rear of the car, pulling the car to the right. $1.29 for a couple of new self-locking nuts plus some Loc-tite for added protection, and I'm good to go.