2012 College Football Offseason - Only two more weeks left of this thread!

[mauchow]

I don't know where to start this but thought it was interesting enough to start it's own thread since it's related to next season and didn't want to get it lost in the bunch.

Former Starting QB Dane Christ transferring to Wisconsin rumors are picking up some steam.

With no real QB in line for next year it would be interesting to insert Christ into the QB Competition with incoming 4 star Bart Houston and the other stable of possible QBs Budmyar, Phillips, Brennan, Stave. If any of the current qb's on the roster could replicate 80% of what Tolzien did for the Badgers I'd be ecstatic with that. If Christ came in and won the starting job I wonder what kind of backlash this might create from the media (not that I care). Wilson's success with the Badgers this year puts to rest that the Badgers are only a run first school.

Chryst is a very good offensive coordinator who's name has been thrown in some small hats for possible HC options so it will be interesting to see what happens there this offseason, too.

With Montee Ball's unlikely return to the Badgers next season (c'mon dude, you'll be the Heisman leader next season if you come back!!!) the Badgers will have to rely on the next running backs in line, White, Gordon, Lewis, etc

Edit: I suppose I could have gone into 2012 Recruiting... I'll post it there, too and we can let this thread die and a quiet death.

[bhlloy]

I think Christ would definitely be a pretty big upgrade for any program

[mauchow]

I'm sure it was already known to everyone but since he graduates this semester he'll be eligible to play right away.

[Matthean]

Early guesses are LSU being #1 and maybe USC #2 depending if Barkley comes back. My guess is OSU would be the Big Ten favorite with Michigan right behind them.

Michigan will be better overall for no other reason than the coaching staff gets a full off season to work with its players. They lose much of their DL, but they recruited heavily there. Brutal schedule so getting 10 wins will be asking a lot. It should be the last real transition year from RR to Hoke. State losses it's passing game, so I'm hoping the stupid streak ends next year. For the love, I hope Robinson starts to take care of the ball like a senior starting QB should. There is no reason he shouldn't be performing well even against the better teams next year.

'Bama losses a bunch. Their massive depth means they have the players coming in, but they need to prove they are ready for prime time. Three new people on the OL is rarely a good thing for a team so this will definitely be a downswing year, or at least as much as 'Bama has.

[mauchow]

I think with osu coming to Madison next year will give the badgers the slight edge there on the leaders side. If the badgers lose konz and ball to the draft they'll definitely have a small climb back but nothing too steep regardless of the qb situation.

[dawgfan]

I think Christ would definitely be a pretty big upgrade for any program
Plus, he'd make for entertaining rants from fans when he screws up:

"Christ, are you kidding me?!?"
"Christ, what the hell was that?!?"

[Ksyrup]

I love the "Crist leaves Notre Dame" headlines.

[MrBug708]

While Ball might be the favorite when if he comes back, it would be Barkley's too lose

[Eaglesfan27]

There are reports out there (besides just on USC boards) that Kalil is set to stay one more year at USC. I fully expect Barkley and McDonald to stay as well, although Perry is almost definitely gone. Still with those three returning, USC has a legit shot at a National Championship and a Heisman for Barkley next year.

Source: OT Matt Kalil "set to return" to USC - CBSSports.com (http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/13682485/33752962)

[I. J. Reilly]

Horrible news out of Corvallis; Redshirt freshman DT Fred Thompson had a heart attack and died while playing pick up basketball yesterday. He would have turned 20 years old this Sunday.

RIP big guy.

Oregon State football: Freshman defensive tackle Fred Thompson dies of apparent heart attack | OregonLive.com (http://www.oregonlive.com/beavers/index.ssf/2011/12/oregon_state_football_freshman.html#incart_mrt)

[Eaglesfan27]

Horrible news out of Corvallis; Redshirt freshman DT Fred Thompson had a heart attack and died while playing pick up basketball yesterday. He would have turned 20 years old this Sunday.

RIP big guy.

Oregon State football: Freshman defensive tackle Fred Thompson dies of apparent heart attack | OregonLive.com (http://www.oregonlive.com/beavers/index.ssf/2011/12/oregon_state_football_freshman.html#incart_mrt)

That is terrible.

[Ksyrup]

Kalil tweeted that he hasn't made any decisions.

[Eaglesfan27]

Kalil tweeted that he hasn't made any decisions.

Yep. Told the LA Times the same thing. Still, things look promising.

[Atocep]

Big East award voting is always interesting.

Isaiah Pead wins Big East POY over Geno Smith and Stedman Bailey is somehow 2nd Team All Big East. There really is no justification for Tavon be first 1st team over Bailey.

Geno wasn't even unanimous 1st team QB. Who else got a vote?

[Logan]

I guarantee it wasn't Sunseri.

[DeToxRox]

I don't know where to start this but thought it was interesting enough to start it's own thread since it's related to next season and didn't want to get it lost in the bunch.

Former Starting QB Dane Christ transferring to Wisconsin rumors are picking up some steam.

With no real QB in line for next year it would be interesting to insert Christ into the QB Competition with incoming 4 star Bart Houston and the other stable of possible QBs Budmyar, Phillips, Brennan, Stave. If any of the current qb's on the roster could replicate 80% of what Tolzien did for the Badgers I'd be ecstatic with that. If Christ came in and won the starting job I wonder what kind of backlash this might create from the media (not that I care). Wilson's success with the Badgers this year puts to rest that the Badgers are only a run first school.

Chryst is a very good offensive coordinator who's name has been thrown in some small hats for possible HC options so it will be interesting to see what happens there this offseason, too.

With Montee Ball's unlikely return to the Badgers next season (c'mon dude, you'll be the Heisman leader next season if you come back!!!) the Badgers will have to rely on the next running backs in line, White, Gordon, Lewis, etc

Edit: I suppose I could have gone into 2012 Recruiting... I'll post it there, too and we can let this thread die and a quiet death.

Crist is looking at Kansas now with Weis getting the job there.

[Matthean]

David Molk wins the Rimington award for the best center in college football.

[Ksyrup]

Wow. Stellar hire.


<S>@</S>Mengus22 (http://twitter.com/#!/Mengus22): An entire recruiting class worth of players (21) have transferred from Maryland in the 11+ months Edsall has been on the job.

[Chief Rum]

Wow. Stellar hire.


<S>@</S>Mengus22 (http://twitter.com/#!/Mengus22): An entire recruiting class worth of players (21) have transferred from Maryland in the 11+ months Edsall has been on the job.

It could also be a much needed purge.

I don't know enough about Maryland to be able to make that call, though. They were fairly miserable this year under Edsall, right?

[Ksyrup]

Terrible. Worst team in the ACC. The only team they beat after Miami on Labor Day was Towson. Had a 41-14 lead in the last game of the season with less than half of the 3rd quarter left and lost to NC State comfortably.

[Logan]

It could also be a much needed purge.

I don't know enough about Maryland to be able to make that call, though. They were fairly miserable this year under Edsall, right?

I'm sure it's a mix of both; there's definitely talent in there somewhere. OT RJ Dill is going to another school as a grad student (Russ Wilson, Paulus) and he's considered a very solid starter type...Rutgers is after him hard along with many other schools. Not sure if he's being included in that number since he technically graduated but he was released from his scholarship in order to find a new spot for the upcoming season.

Word is that the strength and conditioning program Edsall has been running is a complete embarrassment for BCS athletes.

[Ksyrup]

TerpsInsider (http://twitter.com/#!/TerpsInsider) Terrapins Insider
Three sources say Maryland OC Gary Crowton will not return to Terrapins next season.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Any OU fans know anything about the issues in the football program? Rumblings on Rivals message boards that there's going to be some things come to light very soon. From Rivals message board........

Lots of internal struggles going on at OU right now. Sounds a lot like what happened at UT last year. There is obviously a reason as to why the team went from preseason unanimous #1 to the ****hole this season. Here are some quotes from sources:

This from a father of a player who is transferring before the **** hits the fan:

Folks, you may not like some of the things you are about to hear but they have to be said. I have a son leaving this program and have many mixed emotions. It has been a tough road and there have been mistakes on both sides of the equation. I will say that from my experience on the inside of the program that there are serious problems in this program. Please don’t attack me as an OU hater because I have a great respect for this program. The (morale) that I have witnessed is one of the lowest that I have seen in a program. This program is seeing an exodus because the people in charge of this program have forgotten that they have to be able to inspire those around them. The truly great coaches and programs have this ability and it pays great dividends. Yes, the players have a responsibility, but it still requires inspiration. As far as my son goes, I had never seen him have any problems until he arived at OU. It is a tough amd new environment but something went really wrong and unfortunately we may never know what it was. For those that will disagree, the proof will be in the pudding. It always plays out in the end. We wish you the best of luck and hopefully this program can return to the program that we thought it was. P.S. Some of your coaches are not who you think they are.

And this from Carey Murdock, who knows more about OU than anyone:

Major problems in Norman, first off nothing more on Brandon Williams but Carey believes it's just a matter of time before he transfers. James Haynes, Josh Aladenoya have left the team and rumor is also Max Stevenson as well. Some believe that Landry Jones is turning pro and Drew Allen is cleaning out his locker. There has been some rift between some players and position coaches. Also some animosity between Willie Martinez and Bob Stoops. Leadership is a very big problem at OU right now. Travis Lewis hasn't spoken to the media since after the K St game and has also thrown teammates under the bus. And finally Mike Stoops was in Norman today but his chances look slim with Arkansas St leaning towards Malzahn, and Murdock doesn't think any staff changes are coming unless Venables lands a HC job, No local media was allowed at the team banquet.


And Former OU CB Marcus Trice on Twitter

@Dare2Live_4 Marcus Trice
With the **** I've been hearing. I'm Blessed and Thankful God told me to leave OU when he did. Doesn't surprise me though. All about the $

And the last one, on Brett Venables' supposed physical abuse, to go along with the Strength & Conditioning coach making players eat their own vomit:

Looks to me that venables is on the chopping block. a poster at sooner fans says he’s getting word that venables is going to be turned in to the admin for abuse charges of some sort. said to be mangino/leach type issues.

[mauchow]

Crist is looking at Kansas now with Weis getting the job there.

Crist coming to Madison for two days - not sure when he's coming into town but I think its today...

[tarcone]

Iowa DC Norm Parker retiring after the3 bowl game. Great recuiter. Great teacher.
Diabetes has taken its toll on him. Last year he lost part of a leg.
Sad to see him go. He took a lot of 3* players and turned them into pros.

[Cuckoo]

Any OU fans know anything about the issues in the football program? Rumblings on Rivals message boards that there's going to be some things come to light very soon. From Rivals message board........

Well, lots of things here. From what I've heard, there is definitely a leadership issue among the players, some divides. But to compare the situation to Texas and a 5-7 season last year is fairly absurd when OU won 9 games, came within a couple of plays of 11-1, and did so with massive injury issues.

That said, there is, by all accounts, an issue with Martinez, and I wouldn't be surprised at all to see some staff changes. There have also been a few player transfers, but other than perhaps Williams, who has a child back home in Texas, they're all players who didn't see the field. Stoops may just be cleaning house of the malcontents.

I'm not sure I buy any of the stuff about abuse from Venables. But I wouldn't be surprised if OU makes a change there, as many of the breakdowns have been defensive in the past couple of years.

It certainly was a disappointing season, given the expectations, but there's a tendency among Sooners fans to position themselves on the ledge just a little bit. The incoming class looks excellent, and there are still some big prizes out there. I'm certainly not a sunshine pumper, but experience has taught me that it's never as bad as some will claim it to be. Oklahoma will continue to be a winning program, rest assured.

[Eaglesfan27]

So much for Kalil staying. He has declared for the draft. The early decision will at least help USC's recruiting.

[Logan]

Pretty awesome.

Fans vote return of Rutgers football player Eric LeGrand the Best Sports Moment of the Year for 2011 « Inside Sports Illustrated (http://insidesportsillustrated.com/2011/12/20/fans-vote-return-of-rutgers-football-player-eric-legrand-the-best-sports-moment-of-the-year-for-2011/)

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/927064/403940_10150415521786367_14553116366_8734981_1714202283_n_medium.jpg

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Heard a couple of the matchups from someone. Sounds like the SEC opener for Mizzou will be Georgia in Columbia. Also, Alabama will play in Columbia.

[Ksyrup]

<S>@</S>USC_Athletics (http://twitter.com/#!/USC_Athletics): Matt Barkley will hold a press conference this afternoon to announce his decision regarding next season.


I haven't been paying much attention - is the convention wisdom he's staying or leaving?

[Ksyrup]

McMurphyCBS (http://twitter.com/#!/McMurphyCBS) Brett McMurphy
Virginia Tech K Cody Journell arrested for breaking & entering in apparent home invasion

[DeToxRox]

Dayne Crist is headed to Kansas.

[bob]

Dayne Crist is headed to Kansas.

I don't know a lot about the team dynamics of college football (or football at any level, really), but is that the kind of thing that would alienate a team and their new coach? Bringing in a player from his old gig to replace the guy that's already at Kansas? I think recruiting a new player from high school that passes by upperclassmen is different.

[DeToxRox]

I don't know a lot about the team dynamics of college football (or football at any level, really), but is that the kind of thing that would alienate a team and their new coach? Bringing in a player from his old gig to replace the guy that's already at Kansas? I think recruiting a new player from high school that passes by upperclassmen is different.

I've read that Crist is a very good kid with a good head on his shoulders. Since Weis recruited him to Notre Dame, both ought to know what they are getting into.

[Noop]

Bob Stoops would be perfect for the Penn State job. I think he has done about all he can do in Norman.

[Eaglesfan27]

<S>@</S>USC_Athletics (http://twitter.com/#!/USC_Athletics): Matt Barkley will hold a press conference this afternoon to announce his decision regarding next season.


I haven't been paying much attention - is the convention wisdom he's staying or leaving?

50/50, but given the timing I think he is about to announce he is staying.

[Eaglesfan27]

Dola, the set up of the room looks very well set for the start of his Heisman campaign.

[Ksyrup]

On twitter, it seems to be running 95/5 he stays.

[Eaglesfan27]

On twitter, it seems to be running 95/5 he stays.

Now, I think that is right. Before today, it was uncertain but multiple good sources have said he is announcing he is staying today.

[DeToxRox]

Cholly doing work. Not only is Dayne Crist coming but so too is Jake Heaps.

[the_meanstrosity]

I don't know a lot about the team dynamics of college football (or football at any level, really), but is that the kind of thing that would alienate a team and their new coach? Bringing in a player from his old gig to replace the guy that's already at Kansas? I think recruiting a new player from high school that passes by upperclassmen is different.

I think the squad has already been alienated a bit after their first meeting with Weis. The players had the standard one on one meeting with Weis where he explained where they would or wouldn't fit. The previous starting QB was essentially told he'd have a chance to compete for the job, but it would be an uphill battle given most of his high school and college experience came in the spread offense versus the pro-style Weis wants to run.

I believe the plan is to have Crist run the offense this year and then upon graduation Heaps would be in line to run it the next year. There are some young QB's on the roster who might challenge for the job, but that's how I'm guessing Weis thinks it will break down.

[DeToxRox]

At this point Kansas should be set at QB for a while. You get Crist this year, then two years (likely) of Heaps. Weis will get a solid 4* esque type kid in the 2013 class too I am sure. If there is one thing he can do it is recruit QBs.

[Atocep]

At this point Kansas should be set at QB for a while. You get Crist this year, then two years (likely) of Heaps. Weis will get a solid 4* esque type kid in the 2013 class too I am sure. If there is one thing he can do it is recruit QBs.

I don't think I've seen enough from Heaps or Christ yet to call Kansas "set" at QB.

[DeToxRox]

I don't think I've seen enough from Heaps or Christ yet to call Kansas "set" at QB.

Well in a perfect world I should say. Yes, neither have shown much but they are still better then anything Kansas was going to have anytime soon.

[tarcone]

Iowa running back Marcus Coker suspended for the Insight Bowl. Also, RB McCall who was suspended for the Nebraska game is still suspended for the Insight bowl. That leaves nothing at RB for Iowa.

[mauchow]

Lame to see Crist go to Kansas over Wisconsin - but an interview asking questions about why KU over Wisconsin was that Wisconsin did not guarantee him the starting spot. He said something to the effect, "I chose Kansas because I want to play, for me."

Good luck honing your skills for the NFL; you could have had a winning season but instead you'll actually probably hurt yourself playing on a team that will struggle to go .500 next year.

[Logan]

Kid's only got one year to show something and is going to play for the guy who recruited him. Can't blame him for jumping on that guarantee.

[mauchow]

Kid's only got one year to show something and is going to play for the guy who recruited him. Can't blame him for jumping on that guarantee.

Makes me wonder if the coaching staff offered the kid or not - we'll probably never know. It would definitely make me feel good as a fan if I knew BB didn't offer Crist and that he's got good confidence in one of our QBs stepping up for next year.

In order of who I think will start for Wisconsin next year:

Brennan
Stave
Houston
Budmyar (because I don't think he'll be healthy in the least)
Phillips (See Budmyar, this kid would be a typical Wisconsin guy... but he's been hurt for the last three seasons.... not going to start to wonder now)

[the_meanstrosity]

Well in a perfect world I should say. Yes, neither have shown much but they are still better then anything Kansas was going to have anytime soon.

Sad, but true. Crist will definitely be the starting QB next year barring injury. Heaps may have some competition in soon to be freshman Brock Berglund (unless he elects to go elsewhere), but the other QB's Turner Gill recruited were option QB's so I'm not sure how they would fit into Weis' offense. We'll see how things work out. Weis has definitely been an interesting hire for Kansas thus far.

[Swaggs]

With all due respect to the recent success of the Wisconsin program, Weis has put more QBs in the NFL than the Badgers have. He isn't much of a head coach, but he has a pretty impressive track record with QBs.

[mauchow]

With all due respect to the recent success of the Wisconsin program, Weis has put more QBs in the NFL than the Badgers have. He isn't much of a head coach, but he has a pretty impressive track record with QBs.

Care to put that to a test? I'm curious.

[mauchow]

Bollinger, Stocco (invited to a few camps IIRC but never landed a roster spot), Tolzien and soon to be Russell Wilson (I'll only give WIsconsin half credit for this one) are/were in the NFL in the past ten seasons.

And add in the fact that the Badgers don't bring in 4 or 5 star QB's like ND had...

[mauchow]

Quinn and Jimmy Clausen --- they sure developed into stellar QBs in the NFL as four or five star QBs along with the many other 4 and 5 star QBs they've had. Badgers have had ONE four star player commit to Wisconsin and he's in the 2012 class. None before that in the prior ten years.

[lungs]

Is Jim Sorgi still floating around? I know he backed up Peyton Manning (and maybe Eli for one year if I'm not mistaken)

[mauchow]

Can't believe I forgot Sorgi - I'm pretty sure I meant to put Sorgi over Stocco. There ya go, lungs. Further solidifying the solid QBs that have come out of Wisconsin when not heralded as sure-fire NFL prospects coming out of high school, ala Clausen

[Johnny93g]

Can't believe I forgot Sorgi - I'm pretty sure I meant to put Sorgi over Stocco. There ya go, lungs. Further solidifying the solid QBs that have come out of Wisconsin when not heralded as sure-fire NFL prospects coming out of high school, ala Clausen

Sure-fire coming out of high school doesn't exist. Sour grapes!!

[mauchow]

Sure-fire coming out of high school doesn't exist. Sour grapes!!

Exactly. There should be no such thing but I recall that being the case surrounding Clausen when he came to town.

Anyway, yeah, I'm a little sour grapes that he chose to follow the guy who recruited him because he's comfortable with his system and then add in the uncertainty of the situation at Wisconsin...

Just not sure I understand the mentality of wanting to go to Kansas, and as I mentioned, you'll STRUGGLE to get to .500 whereas you can come to Wisconsin and get a VERY GOOD chance of getting back into the Big Ten championship along with another shot at a possible Rose Bowl. I thought football players were driven to be successful winners. If you're good enough to go Pro, you're good enough, why not choose to be a winner instead of a loser.

[General Mike]

McMurphyCBS (http://twitter.com/#!/McMurphyCBS) Brett McMurphy
Virginia Tech K Cody Journell arrested for breaking & entering in apparent home invasion

A kicker? Awesome!:popcorn:

[Swaggs]

Bollinger, Stocco (invited to a few camps IIRC but never landed a roster spot), Tolzien and soon to be Russell Wilson (I'll only give WIsconsin half credit for this one) are/were in the NFL in the past ten seasons.

And add in the fact that the Badgers don't bring in 4 or 5 star QB's like ND had...

Obviously, I wasn't comparing Weis' five-year career to the entire history of Wisconsin quarterbacks. :)

Bollinger and Sorgi never played for Bielema. Stocco amounted to an undrafted camp player that never made an NFL roster. Tolzien was undrafted and has never taken a snap.

Russell Wilson, we'll see about. I'd say, as a fifth-year senior that had already started for 2 1/2 seasons, he was largely a finished product, so I'm not sure how much credit I would give to the Wisconsin staff, but even if we say that he was 100% developed by them, where is he projected to be drafted? I haven't seen him in any of the first round mocks or top 5 QB lists and he may end up sticking with baseball.

Compare that to Weis, who only coached for five years and developed one marginal QB into a first rounder that has spent time as a starter in Brady Quinn and another that was highly touted and was a mid-2nd rounder in Clausen, who has also spent time as a starter.

Maybe Wilson turns into a 2nd or 3rd round success story, but based on the results at this point, Weis looks like much more of a QB guru than Bielema and co. And that is nothing against Bielema or Wisconsin, they have had a great run and put a bunch of really good players into the NFL.

[digamma]

Brady Quinn was an Army All-American in high school, no? Same with Clausen.

I thought the knock on Weis had been that he could recruit, but not develop.

[digamma]

dola...

I take that "knock" with a grain of salt, because it is usually stated by the pundits who make the recruiting rankings. So if the criticism is really that he's poor at identifying talent, it's a criticism of themselves.

[BYU 14]

Well in a perfect world I should say. Yes, neither have shown much but they are still better then anything Kansas was going to have anytime soon.

Heaps really regressed this year but he has the entire physical tool kit. His ultimate goal has always been the NFL and I am betting he is relying on Weiss to get him to that level. Again, in watching him this year though it was never his skill set, just the ability to be mentally consistent.

I wish he would have stayed at BYU and I wish him well at Kansas. Maybe a red shirt year away from the spotlight will do him good. There is no doubt being a QB at BYU brings pressure and lofty expectations that don't exist for a QB at Kansas. If he ever does get his mindset in step with his ability he will be a helluva of a player.

[the_meanstrosity]

Heaps really regressed this year but he has the entire physical tool kit. His ultimate goal has always been the NFL and I am betting he is relying on Weiss to get him to that level. Again, in watching him this year though it was never his skill set, just the ability to be mentally consistent.

I wish he would have stayed at BYU and I wish him well at Kansas. Maybe a red shirt year away from the spotlight will do him good. There is no doubt being a QB at BYU brings pressure and lofty expectations that don't exist for a QB at Kansas. If he ever does get his mindset in step with his ability he will be a helluva of a player.

Definitely true. I'm interested to see if Weis can get something more out of Heap than what he showed at BYU. If Weis does than that can only help him out in recruiting future QB's.

[Swaggs]

Brady Quinn was an Army All-American in high school, no? Same with Clausen.

I thought the knock on Weis had been that he could recruit, but not develop.

Probably a stretch on my part to call him marginal, as he was a 4-star on both scout and rivals (#14 and #10 QB in his class by each). But still, he had started a bit at Notre Dame and had been pretty pretty average. In his two years with Weis he threw for 69 TDs and only 14 INTs (was 26 TDs and 25 INTs in his first two years, to compare).

[Matthean]

I thought the knock on Weis had been that he could recruit, but not develop.

Kind of hard to not recruit when you are coaching at ND and Florida.

[sterlingice]

Lame to see Crist go to Kansas over Wisconsin - but an interview asking questions about why KU over Wisconsin was that Wisconsin did not guarantee him the starting spot. He said something to the effect, "I chose Kansas because I want to play, for me."

Good luck honing your skills for the NFL; you could have had a winning season but instead you'll actually probably hurt yourself playing on a team that will struggle to go .500 next year.

Kid's only got one year to show something and is going to play for the guy who recruited him. Can't blame him for jumping on that guarantee.

This. Short clock and you don't get to show anything if you can't get on the field.

SI

[sterlingice]

At this point Kansas should be set at QB for a while. You get Crist this year, then two years (likely) of Heaps. Weis will get a solid 4* esque type kid in the 2013 class too I am sure. If there is one thing he can do it is recruit QBs.

So what are we going to do after the first two games when they die at the hands of our offensive line :D

SI

[sterlingice]

Bob Stoops would be perfect for the Penn State job. I think he has done about all he can do in Norman.

I suppose expectations are constantly high, but he also has a lot of support so it's not like they're going to ride him out of town, either. They went back to being a national power under his watch and I imagine that engenders a lot of good will.

I guess if he wants a change of scenery, it would work but he'd be trading security and good recruiting networks for the unknown and a lateral step in terms of program prestige.

SI

[the_meanstrosity]

So what are we going to do after the first two games when they die at the hands of our offensive line :D

SI

Kansas' offensive line has some potential. That's one thing Turner Gill and staff did alright in was rebuilding the offensive line with some quality young talent. I know some of the Kansas beat writers feel like it should be one of the strengths next year. Of course, take that with a grain of salt considering this was a 2-10 team this past year so I'm not sure how difficult it would be to be a "strength" of that kind of team, lol.

[Noop]

I suppose expectations are constantly high, but he also has a lot of support so it's not like they're going to ride him out of town, either. They went back to being a national power under his watch and I imagine that engenders a lot of good will.

I guess if he wants a change of scenery, it would work but he'd be trading security and good recruiting networks for the unknown and a lateral step in terms of program prestige.

SI

I think Stoops is beginning to lose the program. It seems as though OU can not get over the hump and compete (and win) for national titles. One of my classmates is a huge OU fan whose daddy is connected (kid drives a Benz so I guessing his family has money) and from his mouth he said he thinks Stoops will either leave or get fired in two seasons.

His reasoning was people were getting tired of losing to bad teams and felt like they should at least win a title or two. Not saying I agree, but hearing this coupled with Penn State's troubles kind of makes it a perfect fit. In addition, Bob is from Youngstown which isn't to far from Penn State.

[mauchow]

Barkley vs Ball - 2012 Heisman Race has begun. Ball is coming back shockingly.

edit to add: 3..2..1.. til one of the nice little running backs behind Ball decides to transfer.

[Matthean]

Arnett gets released from Tennessee and commits to MSU probably as fast as they would let him.

[tarcone]

Iowa Jr. LT Riley Reiff to NFL.

Freshman RB Mika’il McCall will transfer.
He had a rough year. Played a great quarter early and blew his knee out. Came back late in the season and fumbled his 2nd carry. This ended his chance at a Medical Hardship. He was then suspended against Neb. and for the Insight bowl.
I dont think Iowa wanted him around.

[DeToxRox]

Well, Dooley may have been right to block Arnett initially. Apparently Charlie Baggett, the WR coach from Tennessee who brought Arnett to Tennessee, is going to MSU as its WR coach. Baggett had retired a month ago. It's still a rumor at this point but some Sparty insiders are saying it just may be legit.

[Matthean]

Source:*Ex-Auburn Tiger*Michael Dyer to Arkansas State Red Wolves - NCAA Football - SI.com (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/football/ncaa/01/09/michael.dyer.arkansas.state.ap/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a18&eref=sihp)

I guess I was caught up in Michigan and 'Bama in bowl games that I didn't even see he was done at Auburn.

[DeToxRox]

Iowa RB Marcus Coker was granted his release from Iowa.

[Logan]

That's a URL, I swear. Not sure why it's not showing up.

Trying again:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/16810445/my-wayearly-top-25-lsu-starts-on-top-rejuvenated-usc-at-no-2

[General Mike]

#24. Fap fap fap

[tarcone]

Iowa RB Marcus Coker was granted his release from Iowa.

I went to my source in Iowa City. Here is the rumor. Coker was drawing tattoo designs. On paper, not giving them. And for the designs someone gave him a comic book. The University got wind of it and instead of facing an improper benefits "scandal" they threw Coker under the bus. No one stood up for Coker. Coker got mad and left.
McCall, the freshman RB who was let go, was suspended for a failed drug test (Marijuana).
Ferentz is very upset at the whole situation with Coker.

Sounds like Iowa is bending over backwards to keep the NCAA away. And throwing players away in the process.

[RedKingGold]

You spin me right round, baby. Right round.

[Swaggs]

An overstatement from Missouri?

Shocking, I know. :)

Error reveals athletic department spent millions less on football than reported Tiger Extra - Mizzou Sports | ColumbiaTribune.com (http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2012/jan/10/mu-not-quite-the-big-spender-it-seemed-to-be/?tigerextra)

[tarcone]

Iowa is spinning it as Coker was suspended because of an investigation for sexual assault earlier in the season. Or at least thats what the papers are saying.
The girl refused to press charges and the police didnt find enough evidence to pursue.
Coker is getting drug through the mud.

[Matthean]

NCAA Pres. would be ok with a four team playoff.

NCAA president Mark Emmert says he would back 4-team BCS football playoff - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7457227/ncaa-president-mark-emmert-says-back-4-team-bcs-football-playoff)

[Eaglesfan27]

Surprising news: QB Darron Thomas is leaving the Ducks to go pro. Seems like there has to be more to that story.

[Ksyrup]

Surprising news: QB Darron Thomas is leaving the Ducks to go pro. Seems like there has to be more to that story.

If you guys aren't in the BCS championship game, I'll be shocked. Happy, but shocked. :)

[Matthean]

If you guys aren't in the BCS championship game, I'll be shocked. Happy, but shocked. :)

I'm pretty sure USC is a the sexy pick from the Pac-12 for next year.

[dawgfan]

I'm pretty sure USC is a the sexy pick from the Pac-12 for next year.
If USC can stay reasonably healthy, they'll be the team to beat. They don't have much margin for error though as their depth is not what it used to be...

[Ksyrup]

Forget PAC12 - I think they'll be a consensus BCS title game pick. Easy schedule, talent coming back, coming off a strong 2011. They have to be odds-on favorites right now to play Alabama/LSU.

[Matthean]

Forget PAC12 - I think they'll be a consensus BCS title game pick. Easy schedule, talent coming back, coming off a strong 2011. They have to be odds-on favorites right now to play Alabama/LSU.

I would always be happy to see 'Bama in the title game, but I don't see it. They lose a lot. Even if the talent that is already there and coming in is top notch, there's going to be an adjustment period.

[MrBug708]

Surprising news: QB Darron Thomas is leaving the Ducks to go pro. Seems like there has to be more to that story.

His mom works for target, I think they need the money and his stock isn't going higher

[dawgfan]

His mom works for target, I think they need the money and his stock isn't going higher
Yep, it's not like he'll make any more money in the Canadian Football League if he played another year at Oregon...

[digamma]

Brent Venables to Clemson from Oklahoma as defensive coordinator. According to my OU friends that isn't such a bad thing for OU or the other ACC teams.

[tarcone]

Another Hawkeye has asked for and been granted his release. LB AJ Derby is leaving. The bad part is that he is an Iowa City native. Which means he is a lifelong Hawk fan.
He had a run-in with the law earlier this season. That cost him his back up QB job and got him moved to LB.

Next to leave is another RB, D'Andre Johnson.

My brother, who lives near Iowa City, is saying the players are tired of the coaching staff.

I guess its time to clean house of the players and start fresh.

[CU Tiger]

Brent Venables to Clemson from Oklahoma as defensive coordinator. According to my OU friends that isn't such a bad thing for OU or the other ACC teams.


Not done yet...but Dabo is in love with some Brent V....not really sure what to think. I mena he is very well respected, but the stats dont support the love. Then again the Big12 is full of high flying Offenses the likes of which wont be seen regularly in the ACC>..just not sure.

For the moeny we are offering (700k oer)I think we can do better.

[tarcone]

And it looks as if another Hawkeye will be leaving. Rumors have WR Jordan Cotton next to leave.

[Matthean]

Darryl Stonum of Michigan Wolverines dismissed from team - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7472399/darryl-stonum-michigan-wolverines-dismissed-team)

I know I have grown and matured as a person over the last nine months, and I will continue to learn and grow every day.

I would hate to see what he was like before that.

[Ksyrup]

How to choose your SEC school: a primer for disinterested*fans - Red Cup Rebellion (http://mobile.redcuprebellion.com/2012/1/9/2690793/how-to-choose-your-sec-school-a-primer-for-disinterested-fans)

[dawgfan]

From Washington's version of LSUFreek:

http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad346/rattlehead666/uw_sarkwilcoxtosh_boat.gif

I LOL'd.

[DeToxRox]

lol Mark Dantonio

Michigan State coach Mark Dantonio interrupts Michigan recruiting coordinator during speech to high school coaches | MLive.com (http://www.mlive.com/spartans/index.ssf/2012/01/michigan_state_coach_mark_dant_15.html)

KALAMAZOO — Michigan State football coach Mark Dantonio tipped his cap to the Michigan football program during a brief introduction speech Friday in front of a room full of high school coaches in Kalamazoo.

Jeff Hecklinski, wide receivers coach and recruiting coordinator at Michigan, reciprocated the friendly vibes during his turn at the Michigan High School Football Coaches Associated Winners’ Circle Clinic, held at the Radisson Plaza Hotel.

The lovefest quickly and awkwardly ended.

Hecklinski, filling in for Michigan head coach Brady Hoke, who was in Houston last night for the Bear Bryant Award ceremony, launched into a detailed presentation about the Wolverines’ way of recruiting — a little too detailed for Dantonio’s taste.

Dantonio, who was mic’ed up, cut Hecklinski off mid-presentation and summoned the rest of the panel members to the stage to, as he said, talk about more than just recruiting at Michigan.

A red-faced Hecklinski took a seat on the stage, joined by the rest of the panel, which included coaches from Wayne State, Siena Heights and Alma.

Both sides later chalked it up to a misunderstanding in forum’s format.

“I really didn’t know how this would work in this forum; it was the first time we’ve ever done this and I just didn’t know how this would work,” Dantonio said. “I didn’t want it to be a recruiting (speech for only Michigan).”

Hecklinski chose not to dwell on the altercation, either.

“Look, I understand my place,” said Hecklinski, who thought he had a 15-minute window to speak about his program. “What took place, took place and it is what it is. There is no reason to rehash it.”

The panel of coaches discussedand fielded questions about issues facing high school football and recruiting. Hecklinski said the event served its purpose.

“At the end of the day, it’s about helping the kids,” he said. “It’s about getting them opportunities no matter where they are. That’s the purpose of the format and at the end, my job was to make sure I did not interrupt or take away from that process or take away from what the podium was for.”

Friday was the second day of the three-day event, which has brought together a sampling of high school and college coaches from around the state to speak on various topics.

[Matthean]

He should be taking notes so he's not getting out recruited so heavily by Hoke and gang.

[Ksyrup]

Hecklinski got heckled?

[mauchow]

Badgers have landed their OC and OL. Matt Canada, a spread OC at Northern Illinois for a while now, who will take over after Paul Chryst left for Pitt. Canada will conform to Bielema's pro style offense. Also a former Houston Nutt guy by the name of Mike Markeson. This is the same guy that was the OL Coach for the blind side guy, Michael Oher. Badgers had to replace 6 coaches this off season. Nuts, considering we're coming off consecutive Rose Bowl....losses.

[BishopMVP]

UMass hires ex-Hawaii OC Nick Rolovich as OC. I know kurupt wasn't thrilled with his playcalling this past year, but for an upgrading to D1 team I'm liking our staff a lot so far.

[Matthean]

Tide NT Chapman played 7 games with torn ACL - CBSSports.com (http://eye-on-collegefootball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/24156338/34467087)

Chapman, NT for 'Bama, played on a torn ACL for 7 games.

[k0ruptr]

UMass hires ex-Hawaii OC Nick Rolovich as OC. I know kurupt wasn't thrilled with his playcalling this past year, but for an upgrading to D1 team I'm liking our staff a lot so far.

He is the one guy I wanted to keep on staff though. Because I know how much talent he has , he will be an excellent QB coach/ OC for you.

A lot of stuff came out after this season at Hawaii that he wasn't even calling more than 25% of the plays as the old timers wouldn't let him. He is probably very happy to get away from that . I wish him well with UMASS , but I know he will do great!

[Ksyrup]

HA!


Matthew Barkley <S>@</S>MattBarkley <SMALL class=time>35m (https://twitter.com/#!/MattBarkley/status/161522974590124032) </SMALL>
<SMALL class=time></SMALL>Looks like we both do “<S>@</S>schadjoe (https://twitter.com/#!/schadjoe): Chip Kelly in statement says he has "unfinished business" at Oregon”

[Ksyrup]

LSUfreek is THE BEST!

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a78/nursetpd/PAC%2010/Chip_Kelly_NFL.gif

[Eaglesfan27]

He is! Hilarious stuff.

[Ksyrup]

<S>@</S>DanHellie (https://twitter.com/#!/DanHellie): Source: Maryland QB Danny O'Brien is leaving. Met w/Randy Edsall today & will transfer


Damn, wasn't that kid pretty good? Or at least, started out pretty good. WTF is going on with Edsall. Worst BCS school hire in years?

[bronconick]

<s>@</s>DanHellie (https://twitter.com/#%21/DanHellie): Source: Maryland QB Danny O'Brien is leaving. Met w/Randy Edsall today & will transfer


Damn, wasn't that kid pretty good? Or at least, started out pretty good. WTF is going on with Edsall. Worst BCS school hire in years?

ACC Freshman of the year. He's already graduating in the spring, so he won't have to sit out wherever he goes, either.

[Butter]

Well, I thought Maryland had 2 QBs last year, and one was a pro style, and one ran the spread. If they are going with the spread, then they don't really need O'Brien. I don't think it's that big of a deal.

[Ksyrup]

I don't know, I really didn't pay attention to Maryland after Labor Day.

[Ksyrup]

Ha!

ACC Sports <S>@</S>ACCSports
Sorry Danny, but we need more confirmation. Who are your sources? RT <S>@</S>DannyOBrien5 (https://twitter.com/#!/DannyOBrien5): Contrary to rumor, I am still a Terp.

[bronconick]

Well, I thought Maryland had 2 QBs last year, and one was a pro style, and one ran the spread. If they are going with the spread, then they don't really need O'Brien. I don't think it's that big of a deal.

Yeah, Nigel Bradham killed the spread QB when he decided to slide too late.

[tarcone]

Iowa hires DB coach Phil Parker as theur DC. Did some shuffling of coaches. D line coach to DBs, O line coach to D line. Speculation is that KF son is on tap to get the O line job.
Still looking for an OC.

[Logan]

MJ4H, read that a home and home of @ Arkansas, @ Rutgers next two seasons is close to getting done. Anything on your end?

[CU Tiger]

Well, I thought Maryland had 2 QBs last year, and one was a pro style, and one ran the spread. If they are going with the spread, then they don't really need O'Brien. I don't think it's that big of a deal.

No CJ Brown sucked...Kevin Steele just pretended he was Mike Vic for a night.

[MJ4H]

MJ4H, read that a home and home of @ Arkansas, @ Rutgers next two seasons is close to getting done. Anything on your end?

Heard the same. Basically it appears to be done now.

[Eaglesfan27]

Any Nebraska fans that can tell me about Marvin Sanders who USC has hired as their new DB coach?

Longer shot: Any North Dakota State fans that can tell me about Scottie Hazelton, USC's new LB coach?

[Ksyrup]

OK, NOW it's official:

Terps' Danny O'Brien, 2 others to transfer - ACC Blog - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/acc/post/_/id/36533/terps-qb-danny-obrien-2-others-to-transfer)

[Ksyrup]

YIKES

<S>@</S>McMurphyCBS (https://twitter.com/#!/McMurphyCBS) DEA drug raid at TCU; 17 students arrested, inc. 4 football players, for selling drugs on/off campus

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Reports this morning of a large drug bust on the TCU campus. 17 students, including 4 football players, were arrested in the initial raid. Police chief confirms that investigation into involvement of other students and football players is still ongoing.

Welcome to the Big 12 TCU: Four Players, 17 Students Arrested in Massive Campus Drug Bust : Outkick The Coverage (http://outkickthecoverage.com/welcome-to-the-big-12-tcu-four-players-17-students-arrested-in-massive-campus-drug-bust.php)

[DeToxRox]

Just posting because it won't allow me to scroll down past Matthean's last post.

[cartman]

This thread stops at Matthean's post when I view it in Chrome.

As for the TCU situation, the rumor is that the players involved were practice squad guys. It will be interesting to see where this heads over the next few days.

[Logan]

Same problem for me with firefox and IE. Only way I'm reading this thread now is on my phone

[JediKooter]

Looks good from my end. Last post I see is #126. Using Firefox.

[BishopMVP]

This thread stops at Matthean's post when I view it in Chrome.

As for the TCU situation, the rumor is that the players involved were practice squad guys. It will be interesting to see where this heads over the next few days.Starting Safety Devin Johnson, starting LB Tanner Brock, rotation DT DJ Yendrey, backup T Ty Horn. (I'm also having no problems with the thread - using Firefox.)

[Ksyrup]

It will be interesting to see where this heads over the next few days.

To the top of the Fulmer Cup standings!

[Logan]

It's a miracle!

[cartman]

Apparently 3 of the 4 players lived in the same house.

[Ksyrup]

Jerome Simpson's or Sam Hurd's?

[Matthean]

Odd, I don't even see my post anymore.

[Butter]

That's because you broke the thread.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Reports surfacing that as many as 82 of the TCU football players failed a mandatory drug test.

Did 60 TCU Football Players Really Fail A Drug Test? (http://deadspin.com/5885478/did-60-tcu-football-players-really-fail-a-drug-test)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

dola

Further information on TCU drug scandal...........

TCU players caught in bust describe widespread drug use on team, affidavits says - BostonHerald.com (http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/college/football/view/20120216tcu_players_caught_in_bust_describe_widespread_drug_use_on_team_affidavits_says/srvc=home&position=recent)

[Ksyrup]

<S>@</S>MikeHumesESPN (https://twitter.com/#!/MikeHumesESPN) TV for 2012 Chick-fil-A Kickoff games: NC St-Tenn ESPNU Fri 8/31, Auburn-Clemson ABC or ESPN Sat 9/1

[cartman]

Or maybe it was just 5 players that failed the drug test.

Report: Turns Out Only Five TCU Football Players Failed A Drug Test (http://deadspin.com/5885768/report-turns-out-only-five-tcu-football-players-failed-a-drug-test)

[DeToxRox]

Not but a few weeks after taking the Pitt OC job, Bob Bostad is headed to the NFL to coach the Bucs OL.

[sterlingice]

Reports this morning of a large drug bust on the TCU campus. 17 students, including 4 football players, were arrested in the initial raid. Police chief confirms that investigation into involvement of other students and football players is still ongoing.

Welcome to the Big 12 TCU: Four Players, 17 Students Arrested in Massive Campus Drug Bust : Outkick The Coverage (http://outkickthecoverage.com/welcome-to-the-big-12-tcu-four-players-17-students-arrested-in-massive-campus-drug-bust.php)

Clearly the Mountain West has long tentacles!

Honestly, I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often. The number of college kids who smoke pot... well, it's not small. However, I suppose a lot of communities just live with it- it's not like Columbia PD was going to go out of the way to go bug football or basketball player houses- rich boosters don't take too kindly to that.

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Toss this into the 'Awkward Family Photos' file.....

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/0216/pg2_seccoaches_576.jpg

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Clearly the Mountain West has long tentacles!

Honestly, I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often. The number of college kids who smoke pot... well, it's not small. However, I suppose a lot of communities just live with it- it's not like Columbia PD was going to go out of the way to go bug football or basketball player houses- rich boosters don't take too kindly to that.

SI

It's actually just the opposite in Columbia. The Columbia PD DOES go out of their way to roll over stones. They're known for it.

[Matthean]

Toss this into the 'Awkward Family Photos' file.....

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/0216/pg2_seccoaches_576.jpg

It would be funny if 'Bama and Auburn were on opposite sides.

[Ksyrup]

Why did Spurrier have his car mechanic sit next to him?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Why did Spurrier have his car mechanic sit next to him?

Always keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

[cartman]

Why is Craig James sitting down on the far right?

[lungs]

I only went to a D3 school but there were plenty of occasions where I bought pot right under the coaches nose from one of his players outside the weight room. I'd bet most programs have a drug dealer on the team.

[Ksyrup]

Report: FSU to lose $2.5M from WVU cancellation - CBSSports.com (http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/24156338/34914057?source=rss_teams_Florida_State_Seminoles)

Seems like FSU is setting up a potential lawsuit by releasing this kind of info. I think the numbers come from not only lost ticket sales and having to pay another team to come in, but supposedly lost season ticket sales due to WVU not being on the schedule. Which seems like a stretch - I can't imagine FSU fans deciding to turn down a package including the Miami or UF game (whichever is at home this year - I think it's UF) just because WVU isn't included.

I also wonder how real an issue they're having replacing WVU on the schedule. Surely some FCS school with a need for money and looking for a cool trip for their kids would rearrange things to make this game happen. It's not like it's in the middle of the season or anything.

[Ksyrup]

So Maryland lifted the transfer restrictions on 3 players, including Danny O'Brien, but is also pursuing tampering charges against James Franklin related to O'Brien.

[Ksyrup]

FSU adds Savannah State, which was the rumor yesterday, to complete the 2012 schedule.

[bronconick]

FSU adds Savannah State, which was the rumor yesterday, to complete the 2012 schedule.

Not exactly ideal, but *shrug* Seven months is not a lotta time.

[Ksyrup]

I still find the whole "we're gathering information on suing WVU and keeping the 2013 game on the schedule" business-as-usual charade to be fascinating. I can only assume they are keep up appearances to extract as much money out of WVU (or the Big 12, since they seem to have little problem throwing money around to help WVU out) as they can to cancel a series they never wanted to keep. I would seriously question Jimbo if he truly wanted to keep a single away game against a top 10-15 opponent. It just makes no sense.

Now, replacing them with a second FCS team isn't great, but clearly the voters will give us the benefit of the doubt for 2012. If we could dump the return game and add Syracuse @ home for 2013, that would be ideal.

[bronconick]

I think all the lawsuit talk is to keep all the fans that bought season tickets expecting West Virginia, made travel arrangements and now are likely considering canceling them because it's Savannah State from screaming at FSU for it. I can't imagine it being easy to get more than the 500k that was in the contract for it, even on short notice like this.

[Ksyrup]

Could be. I understand people being upset about that particular game if they've made plans, but... really? That upset that you'd consider not buying season tickets because of it?

In other news, <S>@</S>McMurphyCBS (https://twitter.com/#!/McMurphyCBS): Temple likely to Big East for all-sports in 2012, Boise won't join 'til 2013 sources tell <S>@</S>CBSSports (https://twitter.com/#!/CBSSports)

[Eaglesfan27]

Dillon Baxter who transferred from USC to SDSU mainly because of personal and academic issues has been suspended indefinitely by SDSU for academic and personal issues. What a waste of talent.

[Suicane75]

Temple vs LSU in the Sugar Bowl, mark it down.

[tarcone]

Rumors are saying Iowa has hired former Texas OC Greg Davis as their OC.

Has Ferentz Hired an OC? | Hawkeye Nation (http://www.hawkeyenation.com/football/has-ferentz-hired-an-oc)

kbohls @kbohls

I'm told former Texas asst Greg Davis has taken Iowa OC job; 247's Bobby Burton first mentioned Iowa's interest in GD. #ut


Can the Texas contingency give me their thoughts?

[bronconick]

I believe their answer is something along the lines of laughter.

[tarcone]

I would be interested to find out why they would laugh. I was checking out the forum at Hawknation. Some interesting points brought up, but the one post that a guy made really stuck out to me:

Final season offense rankings
Texas
2010 - 74
2009 - 11
2008 - 11
2007 - 13
2006 - 26
2005 - 2
2004 - 11

Iowa
2010 - 52
2009 - 83
2008 - 48
2007 - 105
2006 - 32
2005 - 27
2004 - 83

This alone has me excited. If he can bring up Iowas offensive output to the 40s range, we will be visiting Pasadena in January.

[bronconick]

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/8706/gregdavis3rdand5.png

[tarcone]

Yeah, a guy mentioned the same thing. 7 yard curls on 3rd and 10. But we are used to that type of thing at Iowa. Sometimes Iowa tends to be a tad bit conservative.

[Matthean]

I would be interested to find out why they would laugh. I was checking out the forum at Hawknation. Some interesting points brought up, but the one post that a guy made really stuck out to me:

Final season offense rankings
Texas
2010 - 74
2009 - 11
2008 - 11
2007 - 13
2006 - 26
2005 - 2
2004 - 11

Iowa
2010 - 52
2009 - 83
2008 - 48
2007 - 105
2006 - 32
2005 - 27
2004 - 83

This alone has me excited. If he can bring up Iowas offensive output to the 40s range, we will be visiting Pasadena in January.

The top three teams in the Big Ten last year all ranked higher than 40th in offense. Even if MSU was 37th, they still had the #10 defense in the country and one hell of a gameday coach. Also look up the lack of Iowa's BCS bowl games when they were ranked 32 and 27 in offense. If you want to go to the Rose Bowl with a 40ish ranked offense, you better have a legit top 5 if not better defense.

[cartman]

Davis is a better than average OC. But he tends to stick to certain plays, even when it is clear they aren't working. In his time at Texas, he came up with some brilliant game plans, but had a few head scratchers. The general line of thinking was that he just wasn't able to adjust when things weren't working.

[Ksyrup]

Dillon Baxter who transferred from USC to SDSU mainly because of personal and academic issues has been suspended indefinitely by SDSU for academic and personal issues. What a waste of talent.

So he's having more academic than personal problems at SDSU as compared to USC? :p

[Eaglesfan27]

So he's having more academic than personal problems at SDSU as compared to USC? :p

LMAO! :D

[Ksyrup]

<S>@</S>PreSnapRead (https://twitter.com/#!/PreSnapRead): New kickoff rule has been adopted by an NCAA oversight panel. KOs moved up to the 35, TBs out to 25.


Bert ‏ <S>@</S>ACCrefsSuck
Don't expect NCAA rule change on kickoff spot to affect <S>#</S>ACC (https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23ACC) games. Pre-play ball placements will be random, per normal protocol.

:lol:

[Ksyrup]

All the changes:

Playing Rules Oversight Panel approves rules changes in football, other sports - NCAA.org (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/Resources/Latest+News/2012/February/Playing+Rules+Oversight+Panel+approves+rules+changes+in+football,+other+sports#.T0ewIgx7e7g.twitter)

The helmet thing seems pretty big.

[cartman]

The strange thing about losing the helmet is that they don't mention if there is a penalty if a player continues to participate if their helmet comes off.

[Ksyrup]

"Invalid tackle. The offensive player is entitled to keep running from the spot of the foul...... NOW!"

[Ksyrup]

What happens when your team's best receiver is decleated on an illegal hit to the helmet, loses his helmet, and has to sit out the next play? Might be worth giving up 15 yards to take out the best WR in late-game situations.

[digamma]

I thought one of the reasons helmets were coming off more was by design. Obviously there is risk if the player continues playing, but I had thought one of the anti-concussion designs was leading to more helmets coming off. Is that wrong?

[Ksyrup]

I don't know. I thought I had read at some point in the last couple of years that it was mainly players choosing to loosen the chinstraps to make their helmets come off more often to make their hits look more impressive.

[gstelmack]

A lot of it is players not tightening the strap right, or having a helmet that doesn't fit correctly because it's more comfortable.

Plus most of the helmets flying off are from people grabbing and ripping but the refs not noticing, right?

[wade moore]

What happens when your team's best receiver is decleated on an illegal hit to the helmet, loses his helmet, and has to sit out the next play? Might be worth giving up 15 yards to take out the best WR in late-game situations.


Errr..

(other than as the result of a foul by the opponent, such as a facemask)

[Ksyrup]

Yeah, I guess that covers it. I When I read that, I was thinking of a more direct removal of the helmet by the opponent, as opposed to a hit jarring it off. But I suppose if it covers any foul, then it covers those situations, too.

[Ksyrup]

Also, that exception doesn't cover the away from the play or scrum-type incidents where helmets come off and no penalty is called because no ref saw it. So we could see a strategically-timed incident, like in hockey, where you risk getting a lesser player tossed so you can cause greater collateral damage to your opponent by having their best player sit a play because his helmet came off.

[bronconick]

I still find the whole "we're gathering information on suing WVU and keeping the 2013 game on the schedule" business-as-usual charade to be fascinating. I can only assume they are keep up appearances to extract as much money out of WVU (or the Big 12, since they seem to have little problem throwing money around to help WVU out) as they can to cancel a series they never wanted to keep. I would seriously question Jimbo if he truly wanted to keep a single away game against a top 10-15 opponent. It just makes no sense.

Now, replacing them with a second FCS team isn't great, but clearly the voters will give us the benefit of the doubt for 2012. If we could dump the return game and add Syracuse @ home for 2013, that would be ideal.

Coming back to this, the best theory I've now seen is that because the WVU-FSU series was part of the Big East-ACC settlement from the 2003 raid, there may not *be* anything in the contract allowing FSU to simply cancel and buy out the 2nd game, since it would have been written to protect the Big East member.

The lawsuit is then to force WVU to pay FSU market value for a one game trip by Florida State with no return date, which is probably at least 2.5 million. Rather then do this and have a home game where a majority of the $ is going to the visiting school, WVU will use the contract to cancel the 2nd game.

[Ksyrup]

So are WVU and FSU pretending to be adversaries to play out that charade?

[CU Tiger]

The strange thing about losing the helmet is that they don't mention if there is a penalty if a player continues to participate if their helmet comes off.

By rule the play is ruled dead at the spot where he loses his helmet.
Must have been 08 we went to Tally for the Clemson-FSU game. James Davis bounces a middle run to the outside, a FSU DE grabs him by the facemask, twists him around his helmet comes off and Davis continues into the endzone. The DE hands the helmet to the ref and the play is called back as he was down by rule when he lost his helmet, yet no facemask was called....I may have lost my mind at that point in the game...

[dawgfan]

Looks like we're going to start getting some resolution to the Oregon/Willie Lyles mess soon. Public records request has revealed that Oregon is admitting to recruiting violations and failure to monitor over scouting service issues. Will be interesting to see what the inevitable notice of allegations from the NCAA includes; the records revealed today are heavily redacted. My guess is that the "failure to monitor" will become "lack of institutional control" once the NCAA is done with things...

[sterlingice]

Looks like we're going to start getting some resolution to the Oregon/Willie Lyles mess soon. Public records request has revealed that Oregon is admitting to recruiting violations and failure to monitor over scouting service issues. Will be interesting to see what the inevitable notice of allegations from the NCAA includes; the records revealed today are heavily redacted. My guess is that the "failure to monitor" will become "lack of institutional control" once the NCAA is done with things...

Oh, great. So Boise State is going to lose another 7 scholarships

SI

[bronconick]

So are WVU and FSU pretending to be adversaries to play out that charade?

I dunno. Currently WVU is getting a FSU game in Morgantown with no return date for $500,000. I wouldn't lift a finger to replace the game as long as that was the case if I was Oliver Luck.

[wade moore]

I dunno. Currently WVU is getting a FSU game in Morgantown with no return date for $500,000. I wouldn't lift a finger to replace the game as long as that was the case if I was Oliver Luck.

There's word that some of this could affect my alma mater, W&M, too. We have a game scheduled with WVU in 2013. Of course, this is a pay-out game for us. If they have to cancel and pay us a buy-out fee, that's a win-win.

[cartman]

By rule the play is ruled dead at the spot where he loses his helmet.

I agree this is the case when it is the ball carrier that loses their helmet, but the new rules seem to infer it is any player on the field that loses their helmet has to sit out the next play. This quote from the article: Additionally, if a player loses his helmet, he must not continue to participate in the play, in order to protect him from injury.

Seems to say that if a tackler/blocker loses their helmet, the play isn't whistled dead, they just can't participate in the play any more.

Sak, have you gotten any info yet on these new rules?

[Ksyrup]

So Oregon is going to wind up with a reduction in uniform combinations from 35 to 30 for the next 3 years?

[cartman]

A&M already has the SEC out-of-conference scheduling down pat. They have South Carolina State and Sam Houston State coming to College Station next year.

[CU Tiger]

Seems to say that if a tackler/blocker loses their helmet, the play isn't whistled dead, they just can't participate in the play any more.

Sak, have you gotten any info yet on these new rules?


Oh wow...I guess I didnt even think in those terms...and what is the penalty if they do continue to play.

That is HUGE

[cartman]

Iowa officially names Greg Davis their OC/QB coach.

That second part is where I think he shines. He was also the QB coach at Texas, and helped the development of Major Applewhite, Chris Simms, Vince Young, and Colt McCoy.

[tarcone]

Iowa officially names Greg Davis their OC/QB coach.

That second part is where I think he shines. He was also the QB coach at Texas, and helped the development of Major Applewhite, Chris Simms, Vince Young, and Colt McCoy.

Im sure he will be a good addition. Im excited to see what does with Iowa.

[Ksyrup]

What is it with college football coaches and scamming investors?

Former Auburn coach Tommy Tuberville subject of $1.7 million fraud lawsuit | al.com (http://blog.al.com/breaking/2012/02/former_auburn_coach_tommy_tube.html)

[Logan]

What is it with college football coaches and scamming investors?

Former Auburn coach Tommy Tuberville subject of $1.7 million fraud lawsuit | al.com (http://blog.al.com/breaking/2012/02/former_auburn_coach_tommy_tube.html)

Because they're used to getting away with breaking rules involving money?

[MrBug708]

Dillon Baxter who transferred from USC to SDSU mainly because of personal and academic issues has been suspended indefinitely by SDSU for academic and personal issues. What a waste of talent.

And he's gone.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Mizzou officially filled the final spot in their schedule with a home game against Syracuse. MU paid SU $800,000 for the one game deal.

[Logan]

Makes me feel even better about Rutgers getting a last minute 1 for 1 deal with Arkansas for 12/13.

[Ksyrup]

This really does smell pretty bad.


Nothing honest, unintentional about Oregon paying Lyles to deliver talent - NCAA Football - CBSSports.com (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/17542946/nothing-honest-or-unintentional-about-oregon-paying-lyles-to-deliver-recruits)

[JonInMiddleGA]

OMG, signs of a possible clue in Atlanta

Jackets Hire Dave Walkosky as Special Teams Coach | College Football News, Opinion and Analysis | Chuck Oliver.Net (http://dev.chuckoliver.net/2012/03/jackets-hire-dave-walkosky-as-special-teams-coach/)

Although the article here talks about how it could be announced by GT next week, the news appeared today as the lead item in a video brief from the ACC.

[cartman]

Here's a story about how Lyles was trying to get Texas to pay him money directly outside of what they were paying to a recruiting service to bring recruits on campus.

University of Texas paid Willie Lyles despite red flag - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/espn/conversations/_/id/7213699/university-texas-paid-willie-lyles-red-flag)

[dawgfan]

This really does smell pretty bad.


Nothing honest, unintentional about Oregon paying Lyles to deliver talent - NCAA Football - CBSSports.com (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/17542946/nothing-honest-or-unintentional-about-oregon-paying-lyles-to-deliver-recruits)
It does smell bad, but Doyell is hardly the person to be making that call. He's a clown.

What he's neglecting is that much of the documents released are redacted - all we know is what wasn't redacted, and just because that shows "Failure to monitor" doesn't mean the redacted information is more damning. The first listing is completely redacted, and usually the NCAA starts off with the most serious charges.

Anyone with a semi-functional brain can see what Oregon was doing with Lyles and the other scouting services. The only question is how serious the NCAA wants to be about trying to nip the street-agent issue in the bud with football.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Sad day for Mizzou fans today. Norris Stevenson, MU's first African-American player and a key member of Mizzou's last undefeated football team, passed away today. He was 72.

Nice interview where he talks about his experiences at Mizzou........

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/kV1ktk0xcuk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Dola

News out of South Carolina today. Starting in 2013, Mizzou's permanent cross conference rival will be the Arkansas Razorbacks. South Carolina will have A&M as their permanent rival

Fantastic news. There's already a lot of bad blood between these two schools.

[CU Tiger]

lulz....SC to aTm.....the one scholl you had a chance to regularly beat not named Vandy...good luck with that.

[Ksyrup]

Charles Robinson ‏ <S>@</S>CharlesRobinson
NCAA to announce UNC infractions at 2:30 p.m. EST. A conference all at 3 p.m. today.

[sterlingice]

Charles Robinson ‏ <s>@</s>CharlesRobinson
NCAA to announce UNC infractions at 2:30 p.m. EST. A conference all at 3 p.m. today.

And, because I will never get tired of this joke: Sounds like we'll find out that Boise State will lose another 5 scholarships today

SI

[Ksyrup]

Ha! Couchgate.

[Ksyrup]

Missouri making a spirited effort to fit in with the SEC:

Backup MU QB arrested for warrants Tiger Extra - Mizzou Sports | ColumbiaTribune.com (http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2012/mar/11/backup-mu-qb-arrested-warrants/?tigerextra)

[DeToxRox]

UNC sanctions coming out from the NCAA at 2:30.

[Ksyrup]

Ha!

Bryan Fischer ‏ <S>@</S>BryanDFischer
Gene Smith is surprised & disappointed. RT <S>@</S>EyeOnCFB (https://twitter.com/#!/EyeOnCFB): NCAA hits UNC with penalties, including one-yr postseason ban

[Ksyrup]

The NCAA has increased North Carolina's self-imposed penalty of 9 scholarships over the next three years to 15 scholarships over the same period. The Committee has also ruled that the school's self-imposed two years of probation be increased to three. However, the biggest development in the NCAA ruling was the additional penalty of a ban from postseason play for the 2012 season.

[Ksyrup]

Additionally, former UNC assistant John Blake gets a three-year show-cause penalty.

[Matthean]

"We're still basically a shotgun team." - Al Borges

(sigh) I really want to believe Robinson flips the switch mentally as a QB this year, but I'm still waiting for evidence that he will.

[Matthean]

Since WVU dropped a home-at-home series with MSU, MSU picks up Oregon.

Spartans Announce Football Series With Oregon - MICHIGAN STATE OFFICIAL ATHLETIC SITE (http://www.msuspartans.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/032012aaa.html)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Tough news here as Julian Burnett, GT's leading tackler for the past two seasons is likely finished, the neck injury suffered in the Sun Bowl appears to be a career ender :( He'll be ineligible next season, being switched over to a medical scholarship to finish out his academic career.

Burnett's Tech career appears over *| ajc.com (http://www.ajc.com/sports/georgia-tech/burnetts-tech-career-appears-1399053.html)

[JonInMiddleGA]

I honestly don't know whether to laugh at the claim of it being "a mistake" or cry at how stupid someone with his potential has to be to put themselves in that position in the first place (remember, he sat out a game last year since he got a speeding ticket & cops found a joint on one of his passengers, not like he hasn't gotten a wakeup call about his associations already)

Rambo mistakenly ate pot brownie, high school coach says
Georgia All-American safety Bacarri Rambo is facing a four-game suspension after testing positive in a school-administered drug test, according to Alan Ingram, who coached Rambo at Seminole County High School.

Rambo’s suspension was first reported by DawgPost.com, which reported that starting inside linebacker Alec Ogeltree is also facing a suspension of at least two games.

Rambo is appealing his suspension, which would cost him games against Buffalo, Missouri, Florida Atlantic and Vanderbilt. The rising senior also is considering entering the NFL supplemental draft.

Georgia hasn’t confirmed any suspension and there’s no sign when it might. Athletic director Greg McGarity has declined to comment.

Rambo tested positive after eating some brownies that he did not realize contained marijuana during a spring break trip with friends to Panama City, Fla., according to Ingram, who has talked to Rambo.

“Some kids had them that were staying with him and he said he got high,” Rambo said. “He thought the things had marijuana in them. He sat there a couple of hours and didn’t know what to do. He said he if he turned himself in he’d get a four-game suspension for a second offense.”

Rambo was suspended for the season-opener last year against Boise State. He tied for second in the nation in interceptions.

“He said he was tested five or six times last year and came back clean,” Ingram said. “He said, 'Coach, I’m not stupid. I came back to the University of Georgia to be an All-American two years in a row. I could have went in the NFL.’”...

ERROR: The requested URL could not be retrieved (http://onlineathens.com/breaking-news/2012-03-29/rambo-faces-suspension-result-mistakenly-eating-pot-brownie-high-school)

edited to clarify, since the link doesn't show the headline

[Ksyrup]

Looks like Da'Rick Rodgers is finally gone from Tennessee. Rumored to be transferring to Ga. State. I fought long and hard with a die-hard UT fan on another board about whether Rodgers was essentially "suspended" from the program (technically or not) back in December when the rumors were out there. I don't care what they called it, I knew then he likely wouldn't be back, and if he was, it was because Dooley's on thin ice and needs all the talent he can get to win 8 or more games this year.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Da'rick turning into Da'Rama more & more.

[Ksyrup]

Kinda weird - Montana fired its football coach and AD. Aren't they one of the annual playoff contenders in FCS or Division II or wherever they play?

[dawgfan]

Kinda weird - Montana fired its football coach and AD. Aren't they one of the annual playoff contenders in FCS or Division II or wherever they play?
They are - they won a title under Joe Glenn and were in the title game three times under his successor Bobby Hauck. They fell back a bit under Pflugrad, going 7-4 and then 11-3, but that's not nearly enough of a drop-off for this firing to be about on-field success. Given the timing, one has to assume that there's some off-the-field issue that's brought down both Pflugrad and his AD.

[Ksyrup]

Seeing a bit more, it appears both the starting QB and another player or athlete have recently been charged for sexual assaults.

[dawgfan]

Seeing a bit more, it appears both the starting QB and another player or athlete have recently been charged for sexual assaults.
Not that surprised. I know that a few guys that were booted from Pac-12 schools for various reasons have ended up at Montana in the past - they seem to be willing to give "2nd chance" opportunities to risky guys, and that attitude may extend to non-transfer recruits too.

[mauchow]

Tweet of the year: Danny O'Brien to Montee Ball, "Let's do this"

[Matthean]

Tweet of the year: Danny O'Brien to Montee Ball, "Let's do this"

To you maybe. :D

[BYU 14]

Not that surprised. I know that a few guys that were booted from Pac-12 schools for various reasons have ended up at Montana in the past - they seem to be willing to give "2nd chance" opportunities to risky guys, and that attitude may extend to non-transfer recruits too.

Thay have made a living doing this and sometimes it pans out, but you always run the risk of this. I know they took a player who got booted/left BYU a few years back and he didn' even make it through spring practice there.

[tarcone]

Wisconsin sure throws their money at those FA QBs.

[tarcone]

Iowa loses ANOTHER running back. Jordan Canzeri tears an ACL. Iowa cannot keep a running back healthy or around.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Da'Rick Rogers returns to practice; Derek Dooley clears the air » GoVolsXtra (http://www.govolsxtra.com/news/2012/mar/31/darick-rogers-returns-to-practice/)

[MJ4H]

Coach Petrino was in a motorcycle accident last night. Injuries not life threatening, has apparently been released from hospital now. (last part unconfirmed and apparently at least contested)

[DeToxRox]

Coach Petrino was in a motorcycle accident last night. Injuries not life threatening, has apparently been released from hospital now. (last part unconfirmed and apparently at least contested)

Petrino had a 25 year old former volleyball player on the back of his bike when he crashed.

Bobby Petrino Had A 25-Year-Old Former Volleyball Player On His Motorcycle When He Crashed (http://deadspin.com/5899551/?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow)

[MrBug708]

Tee Shepard to UCLA?

[Atocep]

Petrino had a 25 year old former volleyball player on the back of his bike when he crashed.

Bobby Petrino Had A 25-Year-Old Former Volleyball Player On His Motorcycle When He Crashed (http://deadspin.com/5899551/?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow)

I'm sure a 51 year old married coach was just giving a 25 year old engaged, former volleyball player a ride on his motorcycle because she didn't have transportation and needed to get somewhere in a hurry.

[bronconick]

The 25 year old's wedding guest book is getting hammered with well, jokes that make you wonder about humanity.

And since it's gotten so many hits, the owners of the website appear to have posted on there and congratulated them on the accomplishment and plan to spotlight it as a "Wedding of the Month" on their home page.

I kind of hope that's just more trolling.

[Ksyrup]

So was it the cops or the initial reporters who hid the existence of the passenger until the police report was made public?

[Matthean]

I'm sure a 51 year old married coach was just giving a 25 year old engaged, former volleyball player a ride on his motorcycle because she didn't have transportation and needed to get somewhere in a hurry.

Razorback Football Tabs Former Volleyball Star As Student-Athlete Development Coordinator - ArkansasSports360.com (http://www.arkansassports360.com/30477/razorbacks-name-former-volleyball-player-student-athlete-development-coordinator-for-football)

Just last week she was named a development coordinator for the football team, and will "handle on-campus recruiting and work with incoming players on eligibility issues."

So it's not completely random that she was on his bike. Not saying it was justified mind you.

[dawgfan]

Tee Shepard to UCLA?
Maybe. Biggins is also reporting that he plans to visit Washington soon too. He's apparently good friends with Shaq Thompson.

[JonInMiddleGA]

So it's not completely random that she was on his bike. Not saying it was justified mind you.

It's not completely random if there's a hooker on the back of the bike either ;)

[Ksyrup]

So Arkansas is/was going to have a late-night presser and Petrino was there, then left after a meeting with the AD? What's going on over there?

[M GO BLUE!!!]

So Arkansas is/was going to have a late-night presser and Petrino was there, then left after a meeting with the AD? What's going on over there?

The Saints might need a coach this season...

[Ksyrup]

And Sean Payton needs a place to crash for a year, too.

[Ksyrup]

Apparently he's admitted to a "previous inappropriate relationship." Previous, as in - "up until the other day, right before I crashed," I assume.

[Matthean]

The Saints might need a coach this season...

Nah. Petrino is a guy you can plan on being your coach for a long time.

[Ksyrup]

Ha! Her fiancee is a swim team coach, right?


John Walters‏
I would highly recommend Bobby Petrino not undertake aquatic therapy to rehab that neck.

[Ksyrup]

AD says he's been placed on administrative leave.

[Matthean]

AD says he's been placed on administrative leave.

(insert links to posts by MJ4H defending how long Petrino would be there)

I'm not saying he's fired, but this is kind of funny in a screwed up way.

[Ksyrup]

What a dipshit. I bet he loses he job over this.

1. Lied to AD, and school issued press release with inaccurate info.
2. This raises questions about how she got her job with the team.
3. It's certainly possible he just wasn't thinking straight when he lied about her involvement to the school, but it's also possible he thought he could convince the cops to withhold that info from their report. That would be an even bigger issue.

What a total dipshit.

[MJ4H]

(insert links to posts by MJ4H defending how long Petrino would be there)

I'm not saying he's fired, but this is kind of funny in a screwed up way.

My posts said he would be here longer than Nutt would be at Ole Miss. That wasn't hard.

I doubt he gets fired, for the record.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm not entirely sure that Damon Evans didn't get the boot for less than this.

[Ksyrup]

Bryan Fischer‏<s>@</s>BryanDFischer (Fischer‏@BryanDFischer)
This is why it's a big deal. RT <s>@</s>bomani_jones (https://twitter.com/#!/bomani_jones): petrino hired ms. dorrell last week? errr

[Ksyrup]

My posts said he would be here longer than Nutt would be at Ole Miss. That wasn't hard.

I doubt he gets fired, for the record.

Probably not. He's doing too well, and it's doubtful Arkansas could get as good a replacement.

Even if he keeps his job, I doubt the AD is going to joke that he just hopes Petrino doesn't fire him, though...

[Ragone]

Yea... I put the over under at 2 years from his mega extention.. looks like
The under was the choice

[Ksyrup]

I was all pissed that there was no baseball on late-night tonight and was trying to figure out how to pass time before I go to sleep. Thank you, Petrino and Arkansas for late-night pressers!

[JonInMiddleGA]

I have to figure he's going to need some luck and a hell of a lawyer to survive this one, the hiring her bit is going to be far more dangerous than the sleeping with her part I think.

[Ksyrup]

John Walters‏<s>@</s>jdubs88 (Walters‏@jdubs88)
You say Pitino, I say Petrino, let's call the whole thing awful...