Messing with Formations

[Qwikshot]

I get a good midfielder off the injured list today.

So I'm playing with mybestteam..
I can get a midfield rating of 52%.

I make several alterations...get rid of my winger completely...

winger command-extra forward
forward command-extra inner mid
plus I'm in a 3-5-2


Making my adjustment
I get a midfield of almost 62%! A ten percent increase.

so now I have two wingbacks at def
one central def goes inner mid
one central def is normal
one winger is offensive
one winger is extra forward
two inner mids at normal
one forward at normal
one forward at inner mid

overall rating is 37%
one winger side is at 1% BUT
I get that 62% rating at mid

the other method is my regular 3-5-2
2 wingbacks at def
2 wingers at off
normal middies
central def becomes inner mid
2 normal forwards.

overall at 41%
attack and defense ratings are high 30's to low 40s in percentage
midfield is at 53%


So why do this, well:

kiwis
Player rating and Team formation
Midfield: wretched
Right Side Defence: outstanding
Central Defence: outstanding
Left Side Defence: solid
Right Side Attack: passable
Central Attack: inadequate
Left Side Attack: passable

The highest his middies have ever been rated is poor. I would destroy him with a solid midfield and based central attack...

Either way, I probably will stick to the vanilla 3-5-2 which is more balanced, but I was curious if the extra 10 percent would be worth having at mid, even at the expense of a winger attack (1%)?

Thanks

[FrogMan]

watch it though, I believe if you have four inner mids, you'll lose your training for the week...

FrogMan

[Qwikshot]

Originally posted by FrogMan
watch it though, I believe if you have four inner mids, you'll lose your training for the week...

FrogMan

Do you have to have a winger...
because this leads to my next question...

I can't stand the fact that I have to have 2 wingers for friendlies...I want to train playmaking...so why not

set wingbacks to extra central def (2 extra inner mids)
set one central defender to inner mid (1 extra mid)
set two wingers to wingback
set inner mids to play towards wing

you are training 5 mids, it's still a 3-5-2...get a high leadership, high experience guy and I don't see why it would be a loss of experience...I only see it as a loss of experience if you go out of formation.

central defender (from winger position)
central defender normal
central defender (from winger position)

1 mid (from central defender)
1 mid (from wingback)
1 mid (from wingback)
2 mids (towards wing)
-this removes the glut at midfield, but doesn't remove them from inner mid training

2 normal forwards (it's just as easy to use these guys instead of the wingbacks)

A very complex but normal 3-5-2
mybesteam gives me these ratings:

Qwikshot #1

Lineup strength
Overall:39.43%
Left Defence:54.56%
Central Defence:36.74%
Right Defence:39.81%
Lineup strength
Midfield:63.11%
Left Attack:17.86%
Central Attack:37.83%
Right Attack:18.18%

I tried it altering the forwrrds rather than wingbacks to see if there would be any difference...

Well I was able to set the wingbacks to defensive, so there was a little difference...

Qwikshot #2

Lineup strength
Overall:33.06%
Left Defence:46.49%
Central Defence:38.68%
Right Defence:31.36%
Midfield:62.43%
Left Attack:0.98%
Central Attack:33.32%
Right Attack:0.96%

My objective would be to use these for a friendly to maximize playmaking training...(these wouldn't be used for league or cup matches) The second formation is quite inferior to the first..

I'm actually intrigued by my new formation...but again, if Frogman is right and you lose training, it's worthless...

[dacman]

If you play:

4 or more central defenders
4 or more inner midfielders
4 or more forwards

You will lose training regardless of the actual formation.

[FrogMan]

I don't think you HAVE to have a winger, but I'm pretty sure you shouldn't try to plug 4 inner midfielders in your lineup.

Straight from the Hattrick rules:


Risk for absense of effects of training- if you use too extreme tactical lineups (for example 7 defenders), the confusion might be so total that the entire training and experience registered for the whole week did not happen. Observe that this risk only occurs when you have at least 2 players too many in one part of the team, like 6 defenders or 4 forwards. The more overcrowding, the bigger the risk. (This is to avoid teams getting boosted training effects on strikes, for example by playing 0-0-10.)


I've also seen quite a few people complaining about a loss of training after some very simple overloading in one place on their lineup. By very simple, I mean just that. Something like 4 central defenders or 4 inner mids...

It would certainly be great to train 5 inner mids, but your giving them a "toward wing" order doesn't change the fact that they are still inner mids. In fact, special orders have absolutely no effect on your players' training...

FrogMan

[Qwikshot]

Ah...

Well the thing is, I'm still within the parameters...from the rules (which I'll check again)...I could see why a 10-0-0 or a 2-6-2 would be out...but I thought if I could play a 3-5-2, that I'd still be within the rules (even though it would be 4 or 5 mids)...and while I know the "toward wing" doesn't change them into wingers, it would remove the congestion from the midfield...I just wanted to maximize the playmaking training, and thought I'd had a solution.

[Nyarlahotep]

From the rules:

Tactical blocking devices
In real life no team would turn up with a 1-0-9 formation. This is simply because it wouldn´t pay off. Accordingly, it won´t pay off in Hattrick either. There are two blocking devices designed to deter you from experimenting too wildly:

· "Confusion"- If you use tactics other than 4-4-2 you may find that your players are so confused by this that they play under their normal capacity. The stranger the tactics the more widespread the confusion. (This risk can be counteracted by " Routine" and " Experience";see below). Besides 4-4-2, guaranteed free of confusion, there´s 6 different standard alternatives where the risks of confusion are decisively smaller than the more extreme lineups:
4-3-3 (one of your midfielders has been repositioned as a forward)
5-3-2 ( one of your midfielders has been repositioned as a central defender)
3-5-2 (one of your defenders has been repositioned as an inner midfielder)
4-5-1 (one of your forwards has been repositioned as an inner midfielder)
3-4-3 (one of your defenders has been repositioned as a forward)
5-4-1 (one of your forwards has been repositioned as a defender)

The last two of these (3-4-3 and 5-4-1) are somewhat harder to carry through than the others, but all 6 of them are counted as standard alternatives.
If confusion should occur, this will be reported during the match.

Risk for absense of effects of training- if you use too extreme tactical lineups (for example 7 defenders), the confusion might be so total that the entire training and experience registered for the whole week did not happen. Observe that this risk only occurs when you have at least 2 players too many in one part of the team, like 6 defenders or 4 forwards. The more overcrowding, the bigger the risk. (This is to avoid teams getting boosted training effects on strikes, for example by playing 0-0-10.)

[Qwikshot]

Yeah, read that, but I've always equated a winger as being part of the midfield...most people do an asymetric/symetrical 3-5-2 and the rules only state for a defender (not a wingback) unless wingbacks are considered defenders as well...which if that isn't the rule, then why can't wingers be considered midfield...

From my tinkering, I'm not working outside the frame of a 3-5-2...it's just that I have 5 midfielders, no wingers...as for overcrowding, this could be lessened by playing the natural inner mids toward wing..

I can see what everyone is saying, I just thought I had found a key way of training mids on friendlies...

from reading these rules, you could argue the point that you can't have 5 inner mids, but from the rules I read that you can have five mids, you just can't have 6...

Again, I include wingers as midfielders, so I saw no problem with what I was doing...I guess you have to have two wingers...

[dacman]

Originally posted by Qwikshot
Well the thing is, I'm still within the parameters...from the rules

Trust me, you're not. And it wouldn't even be a chance of losing training -- you would definately lose it, period. The rule is in place to prevent exactly what you describe, not just unusual formations (like 0-8-2). Sorry.

[dacman]

Qwik -- I think you're having a bit of problems with terminology as well.

Wingbacks are defenders
Central defenders are defenders
Wingers are midfielders
Inner midfielders are midfielders

With the 3-5-2 you describe, you would have 5 midfielders. OK, not a problem, BUT you would also have 5 INNER midfielders and that is a problem -- you cannot have more than 3 INNER midfielders or you will lose training. The rules state if you play more than 1 "extra" people in the same position, you will lose training. With 5 INNER middies, you would have to have 3 "extra."

"Toward wing" does NOT "remove congestion" in the midfield as you say. You misunderstand the effect of that order.

[daedalus]

What dacman said. Don't have 4 inner midfielders. I accidently did it at the end of last season and lost a week.

[Qwikshot]

Originally posted by dacman
Qwik -- I think you're having a bit of problems with terminology as well.

Wingbacks are defenders
Central defenders are defenders
Wingers are midfielders
Inner midfielders are midfielders

With the 3-5-2 you describe, you would have 5 midfielders. OK, not a problem, BUT you would also have 5 INNER midfielders and that is a problem -- you cannot have more than 3 INNER midfielders or you will lose training. The rules state if you play more than 1 "extra" people in the same position, you will lose training. With 5 INNER middies, you would have to have 3 "extra."

"Toward wing" does NOT "remove congestion" in the midfield as you say. You misunderstand the effect of that order.

Acknowledged...thank you. Sorry to put you through that.