NFL Week 16

[Racer]

NFL Week 16 kicks off tomorrow with the Texans traveling to Indianapolis to face the Colts. The Colts can clinch the number one overall pick with a loss tomorrow as they have clinched the strength of schedule tiebreaker over the Rams and Vikings if it were to come to that. Vikings have a decent lead over the Rams currently in the SOS department as well (five games).

I'm a Colts fan and I'd like to see the team end up with the number one overall pick so I'll definitely be rooting against them tomorrow night.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

is it me or does matt barkley look like the lost hasselbeck brother?

[mckerney]

NFL Week 16 kicks off tomorrow with the Texans traveling to Indianapolis to face the Colts. The Colts can clinch the number one overall pick with a loss tomorrow as they have clinched the strength of schedule tiebreaker over the Rams and Vikings if it were to come to that. Vikings have a decent lead over the Rams currently in the SOS department as well (five games).

I'm a Colts fan and I'd like to see the team end up with the number one overall pick so I'll definitely be rooting against them tomorrow night.

Go Colts!

[Racer]

Great start for the Colts. Fumble on very 1st play recovered by the Texans with an Arian Foster TD a few plays later.

[Mustang]

In an odd way, I find the game interesting just because the crowds are really thin and you can hear the action on the field pretty well.

[RedKingGold]

This is some really bad quarterback play, on both sides.

[Mustang]

Personal foul, roughing the passer on THAT???!?!

Are you kidding me?

[Racer]

Personal foul, roughing the passer on THAT???!?!

Are you kidding me?

Yeah. Terrible, terrible call.

[Racer]

Best the Colts have looked since they lost to Pittsburgh earlier in the year. Colts in danger of screwing up getting the number one overall pick.

[stevew]

This is some really bad quarterback play, on both sides.

You're really out in a limb here. Orslavsky and Gabbert have combined for like 4 career wins, right?

:)

[bulletsponge]

Best the Colts have looked since they lost to Pittsburgh earlier in the year. Colts in danger of screwing up getting the number one overall pick.

pull it out colts, keep my dream of Luck on the Vikes alive

[bulletsponge]

YES! the dream lives! suck for luck!!!!!!

[mckerney]

yesljdk;lafjiodjaklf;jd;lakjfk;lj!!!!!111

[Racer]

Indy probably just cost themselves the #1 overall pick. If they beat a 10 win Houston team, they're not going to lose to a 4 win Jacksonville team.

[RedKingGold]

pull it out colts, keep my dream of Luck on the Vikes alive

Pretty sure the Vikes are eliminated, I think it's only between the Colts and Rams for #1 overall.

[stevew]

Oh shit... I didn't realize who was playing.

[Racer]

Pretty sure the Vikes are eliminated, I think it's only between the Colts and Rams for #1 overall.

Vikings strength of schedule is actually worse then the Rams right now.

[mckerney]

Special thanks to J.J. Watt and Glover Quin for getting the Colts the redzone yards they needed.

[mckerney]

Vikings strength of schedule is actually worse then the Rams right now.

Plus Minnesota can still finish as the only 2-14 team even if tie breakers aren't in their favor.

[stevew]

Indy and Minny can both finish with >3 wins. The Rams can get #1 if they get lucky.

[k0ruptr]

Rams can get luck-y if they get #1?

[PraetorianX]

I'm glad the Colts have got these two wins and will certainly be cheering for them to beat Jacksonville. I'd like to have the #1 pick, but I want to win. Always. That's the name of the game.

1st pick, 2nd pick, 3rd pick...no matter which way it goes the Colts will be able to get a player who should be able to help them out significantly, hopefully both now and in the future.

[Matthean]

The fun factor becomes if the Rams get the number one pick and are willing to trade it.

[ColtCrazy]

On the way home from the game. Observations...

Houston does not trust Yates. If I could bet, I would bet heavily on whatever road team plays them in the playoffs.

Colts can still get the first pick if they lose next week. Most likely, they get the second pick...
I have no problems with the Colts getting RG3.

If these wins save Caldwells job, I'm sticking nails in my eyes. He butchered the time management at the end of the first half. Even orlovsky was throwing his hands up at the calls.

[stevew]

I have no idea why they would draft anyone except for Luck if they took a QB. You can hedge a Manning future injury by taking a 2nd or 3rd round QB. If there's a lot of demand for RG3 at 2nd overall, 2 or 3 extra picks would help the Colts reload fast.

[stevew]

Dola-

The other day someone was talking about who the Broncos could get to back up Tebow, if you wanted a backup that could run the same system. Dennis Dixon would be a really good player for that role. 2years/4Million or something to that effect would get it done. If Tebow got hurt, you could expect him to do many of the same things.

[mckerney]

On the way home from the game. Observations...

Houston does not trust Yates. If I could bet, I would bet heavily on whatever road team plays them in the playoffs.

Colts can still get the first pick if they lose next week. Most likely, they get the second pick...
I have no problems with the Colts getting RG3.

If these wins save Caldwells job, I'm sticking nails in my eyes. He butchered the time management at the end of the first half. Even orlovsky was throwing his hands up at the calls.

If the Colts lose to Jacksonville they probably have the #1 pick. It is still possible that they wouldn't win the strength of schedule tie breaker, but from what I've read it is incredibly unlikely.

[Grover]

If the Colts lose to Jacksonville they probably have the #1 pick. It is still possible that they wouldn't win the strength of schedule tie breaker, but from what I've read it is incredibly unlikely.

Colts are guaranteed the #1 pick if they lose to Jax.

[Logan]

Dola-

The other day someone was talking about who the Broncos could get to back up Tebow, if you wanted a backup that could run the same system. Dennis Dixon would be a really good player for that role. 2years/4Million or something to that effect would get it done. If Tebow got hurt, you could expect him to do many of the same things.

If only someone mentioned him immediately following the question!

:)

[MIJB#19]

Quite some races for the playoffs tickets with a lot of teams involved. Probably some similar stuff out there on the net, but if not, here's some writing on what if stuff for the race to the playoffs. This was started before the Hou-Ind game, which amazingly had no effect on the text.


AFC bye week hopefuls:
Four teams battling, how do their tie-breakers shape up?
New England - lose to Pit, lose to Hou, too close to call vs Bal, lose to Hou+Bal
Pittsburgh - beat NE, lose to Hou
Baltimore - beat Hou, too close to call vs NE, lose to Hou+NE
Houston - beat NE, beat Pit, lose to Bal, beat NE+Bal
addit: remember that only the AFC North winner gets involved in the bye week race.

AFC North division title
Baltimore - beat Pit, beat Pit+Cin
Pittsburgh - lose to Bal, lose to Bal+Cin
Cincinnati is already eliminated on hthth.


AFC West division title (what a lovely division!)
Can Denver win it at 8-8? Yes, but only if Oakland beats Kansas and San Diego beats Oakland, in which event there will be a three-way tie, with the hth series evenly split and Denver winning on common games over Oakland and San Diego.
Can Oakland win it at 8-8? no, at 8-8 then finish behind Denver.
Can San Diego win it at 8-8? no, at 8-8 then finish behind Denver
Can Kansas City win it at 8-8? Yes, but only if Denver loses to Buffalo and San Diego ends up at 8-8 or worse. Kansas City would then beat Denver ( potentially in a three- or four-way tie) on division record.
Will Denver win at 9-7? They will if their win comes over Kansas City. If their win comes over Buffalo, they'll need Oakland to lose or tie one of their remaining games.
Can Oakland win at 9-7? Only if Denver doesn't beat Kansas City (including tie+tie).
Can San Diego win at 9-7? Only if Denver loses one game and at best ties the other one (so basically lose+lose).


Wild Card #1
Goes to the AFC North 2nd placed team, being Pittsburgh or Baltimore.


Wild Card #2
New York Jets currently lead on common games, but Cincinnati will catch up if they beat Baltimore. At 10-6 each, it will go down to strength of victory and NY Jets currently has the edge by 6 wins. It's mathematically possibly, but very unlikely Cincinnati will overcome that.

<strike>At 9-7 it will be decided between NY Jets, Cincinnati and either Oakland, San Diego or Denver.
Denver has a huge advantage, having beaten both NYJ and Cin.
Oakland has an advantage over NYJ (hth win) an Cincinnati (common games). Only if all three end up 9-7, with NYJ having beaten Miami and Cincinanti beaten Baltimore, it will come down to SOV between Oakland and NY Jets, where Oakland has a 9-win lead over NYJ, which is very unlikely to be made up.
San Diego has a disadvantage to NYJ (hth loss) and an advantage over Cincinnati (common games). In a three-way, things depend on conference record, where SD will be better if NYJ lost to Miami and Cincinnati lost to Baltimore. If Cincinnati beat Baltimore, SD will likely win it on SOV. If NYJ beat Miami and Baltimore beat Cincinnati, NYJ gets it over SD on the hth win.
If the AFC West second placed team isn't 9-7, NY Jets ends ahead of Cincinnati if Baltimore beat Cincinnati. Cincinnati only ends ahead of NYJ if they beat Baltimore and NYJ lost to Miami.

If it comes down to an 8-8 team getting this wild card, it will go to Denver, if they ranked second in the AFC West, or to the winner of the week 17 game between San Diego and Oakland (providing Kansas City isn't 8-8) or ultimately to NYJ on common games over Cincinnati.</strike>
Yeah, uhm, somehow I completely missed Tennessee also being alive and kicking


NFC bye week race
San Francisco can still catch Green Bay and get home field advantage based on common games (SF would be 5-0, GB 4-1). Both Green Bay and San Francisco secured tie-breakers over New Orleans.
Atlanta is technically still alive, as they could catch New Orleans and win the NFC South on division record. Then they'll battle with an 11-5 SF for the second bye based on strength of victory. San Francisco has a 7-win lead and is unlikely to lose, that, but it's mathematically possible.


NFC East division title
Dallas wins it at 10-6, still win it at 9-7 if they beat NY Giants and also win it if they lost to NY Giants, but NY Giants lost to NY Jets. Dallas can't win it at 8-8.
NY Giants always wins it at 9-7, still win it at 8-8, if Dallas loses their last two games and Philadelphia didn't beat Washington.
Philadelphia wins it at 8-8 if NY Giants beat Dallas and NY Jets beat NY Giants.


NFC South division title
Atlanta can still win it on division record.


NFC Wild Cards
Atlanta or New Orleans gets it if the NFC South second placed team is 11-5, as Detroit lost to both of them.
Detroit gets it at 11-5 if Atlanta didn't win both remaining games.
At 10-6, it's still between Atlanta and Detroit, with Atlanta having the hth win to hold tie-breakers.

At 9-7 it gets very interesting. updated to make easier to read
Dallas - beats Atl, beats Atl+Det
Chicago - wins all ties not involving Sea
Detroit -beats Dal
Atlanta - beats Det, beats Sea, beats Det+Sea
Seattle - wins all ties involving Chi, beats all ties involving Dal, beats Det
Arizona - wins all ties not involving Chi
addit: remember that Chicago and Detroit can't be involved in the same x-way tie, Chicago will be involved first (if both are 9-7) and Detroit gets involved if Chicago grabs the first wild card, if appliciable. Seattle and Arizona can't both end up at 9-7. Also note that in all cases Atlanta and/or Chicago/Detroit will be involved.

[cuervo72]

BAL/PIT are AFC North, MIJB.

[MIJB#19]

BAL/PIT are AFC North, MIJB.Thank you sir, has been fixed.

[Suburban Rhythm]

At work so I can't link YT (and I can never embed anyway), but...

39th anniversary of the Immaculate Reception

[Logan]

Always willing to help a brother out...

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7xMDIcsUMmA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Thomkal]

wow didn't think my beloved Cards had much of a chance to make the playoffs if they win out and the last wildcard spot comes down to a 9-7 team, but they actually look pretty good at this point. Unfortunately its John Skelton going again at QB against the Bengals on the road this week then Seattle at home to end the season. So still not looking too good.

But I still believe. :)

[kingfc22]

Skelton is 4-1.

Whatever he is doing is working and I'd think you would want him rather than Kolb behind center.

[henry296]

At work so I can't link YT (and I can never embed anyway), but...

39th anniversary of the Immaculate Reception

And Happy 39th wedding anniversary to my parents.

[stevew]

Big Ben is sitting vs the Rams

[bhlloy]

Yeah. Terrible, terrible call.

I just saw this. That should get a ref suspended, what could he possibly have seen there?

[SunDevil]

I just saw this. That should get a ref suspended, what could he possibly have seen there?

The bookie breaking his leg if he got the call wrong......

[MIJB#19]

If the Colts lose to Jacksonville they probably have the #1 pick. It is still possible that they wouldn't win the strength of schedule tie breaker, but from what I've read it is incredibly unlikely.
Ironically, Indianapolis' win over Houston 'improved' the SOS tie-breaker, trimming their maximum SOS by 2. The high number of divisional games in weeks 16 and 17 makes the margin in SOS small. At 'best' Minnesota will tie Indianapolis in SOS. If they both end up 2-12, Minnesota's SOS will have improved by 3 already. Minnesota can't get the #1 at 3-13 either, as Indianapolis would have to take another 2 potential wins off their SOS.

To put the number out there:

Ind = 120 + Jac-Ten + Jac-Ten + Hou-Ten + Hou-Ten + Jac (vs Ind) + Jac (vs Ind) + Pit (v StL) + Cin (vs Ari) + Cle-Bal + Cle-Pit + Cin-Bal + Atl-Car + Atl-NO + Tam-Car + Tam-NO + NE (vs Mia) + NE (vs Buf) + KC (vs Oak) + KC (vs Den)
=> between 131 and 139

Min = 127 + GB-Chi + GB-Chi + GB-Det + GB-Det + Chi (vs Min) + Chi (vs Min) + Det-SD + Det (vs SD) + Atl-Car + Atl-NO + Tam-Car + Tam-NO + KC-Oak + KC-Den + Oak-SD + Den (vs Buf) + Was (vs Min) + Was (vs Phi) + Ari (vs Cin) + Ari (vs Sea)
=> between 139 and 147

StL = 132 + Sea-SF + Sea-SF + Sea-Ari + Sea-Ari + SF (vs StL) + SF (vs StL) + Ari-Cin + Ari (vs Cin) + Phi-Dal + Phi-Was + Dal-NYG + Was (vs Min) + NYG (vs NYJ) + Pit (v StL) + Cle-Bal + Cle-Pit + Cin-Bal + GB (vs Chi) + GB (vs Det) + NO (vs Atl) + NO (vs Tam)
=> between 143 and 153

"Jac-Ten" denotes a hth clash, which increases the SOS by 1
"Jac (vs Ind)" denotes that a Jac win vs Ind will increase the SOS by 1


I think this 'proves' Indianapolis clinches the #1 with a loss against Jacksonville, and still gets it if Minnesota and St. Louis both win one of their remaining two games.

[Lathum]

Giants I'm sure will continue their trend of laying eggs in must win games today.

[Thomkal]

Sorry to have to root against you Lions and Falcons fans, but I need at least one of your teams to lose today so my beloved Cards still have a shot at the playoffs (assuming Cards win against Cincy). Both up against hot tough opponents, so looking like Cards could still be in it after this week.

[mckerney]

Big Ben is sitting vs the Rams

Yes! Go St. Louis!

[Suicane75]

Giants I'm sure will continue their trend of laying eggs in must win games today.

Let's keep our fingers crossed. ;)

[Dutch]

Damnit, I haven't even made the popcorn yet and the Bucs are already down 10-0! *sigh*

[bulletsponge]

Tebow magic working on bills kicker.

[Racer]

Yes! Go St. Louis!

+1 from a Colts fan.

[bulletsponge]

+1 from a Colts fan.

+2 from a Vikes fan

[kingfc22]

Silly Raiders. LOL

[Lathum]

Wtf was chase Blackburn doing?

[Oilers9911]

Denver is getting screwed here. A terrible illegal block call, a missed PI call and it sure look like the Bills return man was out of bounds on that touchdown.

[sabotai]

Victor Cruz 99 yards! Great run after the catch.

[Lathum]

Cruz!

[EagleFan]

WTF jets?!?!

[kingfc22]

And Cleveland that is why you are Cleveland.

No timeouts and you run the ball inside the 10 with 15 seconds to go an the clock running.

Wow.

[sabotai]

I'm watching on a crappy standard def TV, so I can't tell if his elbow hits the ground first or if he loses it when his forearm hits the Giants' defender's foot.

[larrymcg421]

Hey Miami, the season starts in September.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Holy crap Jerome Simpson.

[bulletsponge]

fuck Petersons career might be over

[mckerney]

Crap, Webb might actually give the Vikings a chance to win.

[cuervo72]

fuck Petersons career might be over

That really didn't look good.


And Simpson - dang, that was something!

[bulletsponge]

Crap, Webb might actually give the Vikings a chance to win.

if he wins, he needs to be taught a lesson and get cut right after ;)

[mckerney]

if he wins, he needs to be taught a lesson and get cut right after ;)

Offense opened up since Ponder went out. Redskins defense can't just cover five yards and in, Joe Webb with a nice pass for a go ahead TD. At least Ryan Longwell's still helping with a missed FG and XP.

[Thomkal]

Holy crap Jerome Simpson.

That's my Coastal Carolina boy! (except when he's part of a drug bust) Sadly it was against my beloved Cards, so it was a sad play for me too. Cards completely laying an egg with a chance to make the playoffs.

[mckerney]

Chad Greenway finally earning his money by lining up offsides.

[Grover]

No wonder Tebow does so well. They don't call holding against the Broncos, ever.

[Thomkal]

Hey Fox its 48-10 Carolina over Tampa Bay, don't you have some other game you can show?

[QuikSand]

Hey Fox its 48-10 Carolina over Tampa Bay, don't you have some other game you can show?

Location: SC

http://www.smithcasey.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/glengarry_leads.jpg

"If you don't like it...leave."

[sabotai]

Giants' special teams coach needs to tell his players that when the punt is not fielded, GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM THE BALL. The returner just shadowed the ball as it bounced a few times before it was downed by the Jets. There's ZERO reason to do that. If that took a weird bounce (and footballs have a tendency to do that), it could have been a disaster.

[sabotai]

Jacobs does his best Bradshaw impression by running to the outside and going 28 yards. Bradshaw then does his best Jacobs impression and ran over Rodney Pool and scores the TD.

[mckerney]

Fuck fuck fuck, why can't Ponder be playing?

[korme]

Holy crap Jerome Simpson.

Maybe play of the year!!

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/y7KPZrv7JWE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Grover]

Here come the Cardinals.
FFS.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Crap, Webb might actually give the Vikings a chance to win.

Offense opened up since Ponder went out. Redskins defense can't just cover five yards and in, Joe Webb with a nice pass for a go ahead TD. At least Ryan Longwell's still helping with a missed FG and XP.

Not surprising at all to anyone who watched the Lions/Vikings game. I have no idea why Frazier didn't start Webb last week. Well, unless they were trying to "Suck for Luck."

[mckerney]

Bad Rex, bad.

[mckerney]

Not surprising at all to anyone who watched the Lions/Vikings game. I have no idea why Frazier didn't start Webb last week. Well, unless they were trying to "Suck for Luck."

It's been pretty obvious for several weeks since the coaching staff has gameplanned around Ponder not being able to throw passes more than 5 yards downfield.

[larrymcg421]

Ugh, why must you do this to me, Miami?

[kingfc22]

AFC West will go down to Week 17

[Dutch]

Maybe play of the year!!

Love it!

[sabotai]

Looks like the "Tuck Rule" is going to save the Jets drive here.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Maybe play of the year!!

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/y7KPZrv7JWE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

So this is the flip to go with his flop earlier in the year?

[Grover]

So this is the flip to go with his flop earlier in the year?

Hey now.

[sabotai]

Looks like the "Tuck Rule" is going to save the Jets drive here.

It did, and several plays later, Sanchez fumbles the snap and the Giants recover.

[sabotai]

And then the Giants' receiver gives it back with one of their patented "tip it to the defender" moves.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Hey now.

:p

[Thomkal]

Cards trying to make it another OT game after a 3 INT game from Skelton and blowing a chance to tie it after a Bengals fumble

[Thomkal]

and run out of time alas.

[mckerney]

:(

[sabotai]

"Due to NFL rules, we have to leave this game and get you to your game in just a few minutes."

NNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Boy it's tough to find myself needing to pull for the Lions today. Megatron makes it easier for me but still.

[Pumpy Tudors]

AFC West will go down to Week 17
As a Broncos fan, I guess I feel a little better knowing that the Broncos would not have clinched today with a win, although a win would have been nice. Two ways for the Broncos to win the division:

1. Broncos beat Chiefs next week
2. Lions beat Chargers today, Chargers beat Raiders next week

If the Chargers win today and the Broncos lose next week, the winner of the Raiders-Chargers game wins the West.

I'll start with this: GO LIONS!!!

[cuervo72]

It did, and several plays later, Sanchez fumbles the snap and the Giants recover.

Said it before elsewhere - Sanchez is no more than a younger Rex Grossman.

[gstelmack]

Hey Fox its 48-10 Carolina over Tampa Bay, don't you have some other game you can show?

And CBS couldn't switch away any sooner from the Bills blowout over Denver to either Oakland / KC or New England / Miami until that was completely done. Sigh.

Oh yeah, and *phew* for the New England / Miami game.

[sabotai]

Following on NFL.com, looks like the Giants play it safe while a bit outside of FG range and run the ball for no gain. Now at 4th and 6. That usually pisses off the football gods.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I'll start with this: GO LIONS!!!

HELLS YEAH!

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/images/photos/000/941/403/LionsFans_crop_340x234.jpg?1271955762


http://www.filmjackets.com/FILM_JACKETS/beverly_hills_cop/bhc1-001.jpg


http://www.athlonsports.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/athlon_slideshow_portrait/slideshow-images/DetroitLionsFan.jpg

[sabotai]

Safety by the Giants! That should be enough... (Jinx! Jinx!)

[Pumpy Tudors]

Trying to figure out Honolulu_Blue's post. So I see a bunch of random Lions fans, Eddie Murphy, and Gary Busey. Is this a rebus?

[Crapshoot]

The jets decision for an onside kick there was absolutely idiotic.

[sabotai]

Sorry Rex, you're still the little brother for another 4 years.

[EagleFan]

Jets SUCK!!!

That is all...

[cougarfreak]

Well, the Bengals control their own destiny. Win next week against the Ravens and they are in. They didn't play particularly well against the Ravens, on the road, w/o AJ Green last time, and still had a chance to tie the game at the end. Hopefully, next week can give the "new" Bengals a chance at a signature win.

[Blackadar]

I can't wait to see how TroyF writes off today's Tebow performance as an aberration, given how much he's been pimping Tebow's supposed "growth" the last couple of weeks.

[sabotai]

Here's something I just noticed. With 2 games left to go, Eli Manning made it 3 straight years with 4000+ passing yards and had already set the Giants single season record for passing yards in a season passing Kerry Collins' 4073 set in 2002. He's up to 4362 now with 1 game left. The Giants have only had 5 seasons in their history with QBs passing for 4000+ yards. Phil Simms once, Kerry Collins once and Eli now with 3.

However, he'd need to throw for 5 more TDs to tie Y. A. Tittle's record of 36 TD passes in a season.

[Travis]

I'm still not sure how much is too much to re-sign him for, but I do know Marshawn Lynch is a hell of a lot of fun to watch. Even with 3 offensive line starters on the IR this guy just keeps blasting away. Really hoping he's back next year and that the offensive line can stay healthy.

[RendeR]

Well, the Bengals control their own destiny. Win next week against the Ravens and they are in. They didn't play particularly well against the Ravens, on the road, w/o AJ Green last time, and still had a chance to tie the game at the end. Hopefully, next week can give the "new" Bengals a chance at a signature win.




Can't ask for any more than this. The Ravens unfortunately need to win to remain the 2 seed so we won't even get a layup from them. We have to go out and beat baltimore next week.


Loving this season, GO BENGALS!

[Buccaneer]

What a great Christmas gift!!! Not only did the Jets lose but the Giants win eliminated the f'n Eagles. Woo hoo.

[Thomkal]

And CBS couldn't switch away any sooner from the Bills blowout over Denver to either Oakland / KC or New England / Miami until that was completely done. Sigh.

Oh yeah, and *phew* for the New England / Miami game.

Yeah the other game I had here was Bills/Broncos, so had nothing to watch basically.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Trying to figure out Honolulu_Blue's post. So I see a bunch of random Lions fans, Eddie Murphy, and Gary Busey. Is this a rebus?

Not so much a rebus, but more symbols.

The Lions fans are the ones yelling "Hells Yeah!!" to join your cry.

Eddie Murphy in the Lions jacket represents you, a damn sexy mustachioed black man supporting the Lions.

The girl, well, she's just some eye candy for the rest of gang, most of whom will complain she's ugly and/or looks like she's 13.

[JPhillips]

I found this fun.

In the AFC, who has the highest Strength of Victory percentage?

[Grover]

I found this fun.

In the AFC, who has the highest Strength of Victory percentage?

Baltimore? I know they've only lost to teams below .500.

[Vegas Vic]

What happened to all of the Cam Newton doubters?

[JPhillips]

Baltimore? I know they've only lost to teams below .500.

Nope. It's a trick question.

[Honolulu_Blue]

The honeymoon is over for the Lions. Chicago is the superior team and have already played the Saints and Packers once. Detroit still has 3 games against those teams. Dallas has a much easier schedule. Chicago and Dallas will be the WCs.

This is what I said but someone above said the Lions just locked up a playoff spot after losing 37-13. I just don't see it. It's going to be tough to win any of those games vs the Pack and Saints. Two of them are on the road. Dallas has a much easier schedule although the Lions do have the tiebreaker vs them. Atlanta will also be a factor and they have the tiebreaker vs Lions.

I've missed Jas_lov guarantees. Detroit doesn't know it but they just locked up a playoff spot the moment this was posted! ;)

Thanks, Jas_lov!! I owe you a beer, my man.

The Lions are in the playoffs!! Been a looooong time coming and they wont likely win a playoff game, but still.

It's good and necessary step for the franchise.

Great Christmas present!

Hopefully, this loss will get rid of Norv and the GM for you San Diego fans. It will be the gift that keeps on giving.

GO LIONS!!!

[kingfc22]

NFL needs full time refs. They are such a joke. WR knocks over the DB and it's defensive PI???

In other news, Aldon Smith is a beast!

[kingfc22]

That didn't look good. Kyle Williams just took two helmet to helmet shots simultaneously on each side of his head...

Niners cannot afford additional injuries to their WR corps.

[k0ruptr]

Colts probably have the highest strength of victory %

[k0ruptr]

Larry Grant has been Impressive filling in for Willis

[JPhillips]

Colts probably have the highest strength of victory %

WINNER!

[Rizon]

Tebooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwait.

[k0ruptr]

It's setup for a Tebow playoff clincher next week. All part of the gameplan.

[BillJasper]

I can't wait to see how TroyF writes off today's Tebow performance as an aberration, given how much he's been pimping Tebow's supposed "growth" the last couple of weeks.

Tebow is never going to be a guy that can be successful throwing the ball thirty times a game on a consistent basis. So much of his success is based on the fact that defenses can't just defend the pass when he's in the game. They have to defend the entire field and account for every eligible ball handler.

Tebow will not be successful in a conventional NFL offense.

[Matthean]

The girl, well, she's just some eye candy for the rest of gang, most of whom will complain she's ugly and/or looks like she's 13.

I would say the opposite. Her face makes her look older than she is.

[ColtCrazy]

Ugh, why must you do this to me, Miami?

Left for a Christmas gathering with the in-laws with the Phins up 17-0 and me in a good mood. 3 hours of in-laws later, I thought things couldn't get worse. Then I saw this score. Ugh. The Pats cannot make it to Indy!!!

[Grover]

MRI confirms torn ACL and MCL for Adrian Peterson.

[sabotai]

Ouch.

[Suicane75]

I will echo the sentiment of Fuck the Jets. That being said, I hope the Giants pound the Cowboys into the ground next week. And I hope we don't do anything stupid this off season like fire Andy.

[Blackadar]

What happened to all of the Cam Newton doubters?

Simply put, it appears we were wrong. Unbelievably, incredibly, amazingly, astoundingly wrong.

[BillJasper]

Simply put, it appears we were wrong. Unbelievably, incredibly, amazingly, astoundingly wrong.

Yep.

But one season doesn't make a career, so let's hold off on enshrining him in Canton for a bit longer.

[Blackadar]

Yep.

But one season doesn't make a career, so let's hold off on enshrining him in Canton for a bit longer.

For sure. But for those of us who questioned why Carolina took him #1, we have to eat our crow.

[BillJasper]

For sure. But for those of us who questioned why Carolina took him #1, we have to eat our crow.

Of course we do. I hear it's quite tasty with a side of asparagus and a glass of white wine. :D

[gstelmack]

For sure. But for those of us who questioned why Carolina took him #1, we have to eat our crow.

Yup, and I think most of us already did back by around week 4 or so. Whether or not he makes the HoF, he's still shown he's a legit NFL QB.

[jbergey22]

Not surprising at all to anyone who watched the Lions/Vikings game. I have no idea why Frazier didn't start Webb last week. Well, unless they were trying to "Suck for Luck."

Ponder is suppose to be their future. Winning really isnt all that important to them at this point. Winning 4 games instead of 2-3 games isnt going to make the season a success.

Anyway pretty much a disaster for the Vikings yesterday. They lose their all pro RB for probably next season in a game he had no business even playing in. They manage to win the game taking away any hope of getting Luck and Ponder yet again looks ordinary while the QB/WR makes the offense look unstoppable.

I tweeted AP this very message last week <S>@</S>AdrianPeterson (https://twitter.com/#!/AdrianPeterson) You are the man AP. Save your legs this season. You are too valuable to be out there on a 2-12 team. Next year....

Dammit!

[mauchow]

That is just sickening news on Peterson. I'm disgusted with the way the team has been run and coached the last few years.

Peterson being the animal he is probably returns from this injury faster than most people...but.... you never know. He's going to lose some agility and speed possibly. This really is depressing.

[cuervo72]

I will echo the sentiment of Fuck the Jets. That being said, I hope the Giants pound the Cowboys into the ground next week.

yy, very much this...

And I hope we don't do anything stupid this off season like fire Andy.

...and probably this, too. Though I still don't think I'd mind Jeff Fisher.

[Dutch]

Lord knows the Bucs could use a guy like Andy Reid though. We need to get some discipline in our house and I think a fresh start with some young players would do wonders for him.

[bulletsponge]

im pissed off at the Vikes coaching. now we lost Peterson in a meaningless game when he was already nursing an injury, and we lost all chance of getting Luck and possibly RG3

[Matthean]

im pissed off at the Vikes coaching. now we lost Peterson in a meaningless game when he was already nursing an injury, and we lost all chance of getting Luck and possibly RG3

I think with a win you would still be in decent shape to get RGIII.

[mckerney]

I think with a win you would still be in decent shape to get RGIII.

The question there is will we have someone in charge who will be smart enough to take him.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Does it seem to anyone else like the Packers are just toying with the Bears?

I've been impressed with the Bear offense though. McCown has shown some poise in the pocket and made a couple of nice timing throws. Then again, my level of impressed-ness may be because I've been watching Alex Smith the majority of the year :)

[Passacaglia]

Looks like the Bears loss clinches a playoff spot for Atlanta.

[jbergey22]

The question there is will we have someone in charge who will be smart enough to take him.

No. We are stuck in a bad situation.

While our star players get older we are in the process of figuring out that our first round QB is just an average NFL QB. It will be 2013 when they figure out Ponder just isnt going to work so they will probably go the placeholder(Favre) approach again.

I have seen a lot of mock drafts with them taking the LT from USC.

Bad drafting and mortgaging everything on the two Favre years has put us in a tough situation.

[jbergey22]

Does it seem to anyone else like the Packers are just toying with the Bears?

I've been impressed with the Bear offense though. McCown has shown some poise in the pocket and made a couple of nice timing throws. Then again, my level of impressed-ness may be because I've been watching Alex Smith the majority of the year :)

Bears had an interesting defensive gameplan. Last week the Chiefs had success against the Packers by bracketing Finley and playing the outside WRs man up. I would have assumed that the Bears would have taken notes. It didnt appear that way to me. They decided to man up on Finley with a linebacker at times.

[StLee]

At halftime, Drew Brees is 75 yards away from breaking Marino's passing yards record.

[kingfc22]

Very cool for Brees.

[StLee]

And the record falls! Congratulations, Drew Brees!

[bhlloy]

Very cool. Now don't throw any backwards passes for the rest of the game

[ColtCrazy]

Love it. Brees is a class act, happy to see it. What a great atmosphere too.

[korme]

Brees to Sproles just won the championship for a guy in my league. Got to think if they didn't want Brees to get the record, he wouldn't have been passing

[Scoobz0202]

Yea, I know somebody who won because of that pass due to him having Sproles. Crazy.

[MizzouRah]

Again.. how did the Rams beat New Orleans? :)

I can see Coach Spagnuolo calling the owner now.. "You do know we beat that team?".

[Antmeister]

Damn....two former Chargers made the record possible. Ugh.

[larrymcg421]

I knew Dan's record had to end someday. I'm glad it took so long for it to be broken. Congrats to Brees.

Also on the record front, Aaron Rodgers' great day moved him back in front for the season QB rating record.

[Matthean]

I knew Dan's record had to end someday. I'm glad it took so long for it to be broken. Congrats to Brees.

Also on the record front, Aaron Rodgers' great day moved him back in front for the season QB rating record.

In a game that means nothing, it will be interesting to see how much he plays.

[RainMaker]

The record is sort of meaningless now though with how much the rules have changed. Marino's season is still much more impressive than what Brees has done this year. Brees is a great QB, but you can't compare their accomplishments.

[Ksyrup]

The record is sort of meaningless now though with how much the rules have changed. Marino's season is still much more impressive than what Brees has done this year. Brees is a great QB, but you can't compare their accomplishments.

SC_DougFarrar (http://twitter.com/#!/SC_DougFarrar) SC_DougFarrar
Talked to coaches/ex-coaches/tape junkies about complexity of modern defenses. Much tougher to throw against them. Narrative not so simple.

[LloydLungs]

The record is sort of meaningless now though with how much the rules have changed. Marino's season is still much more impressive than what Brees has done this year. Brees is a great QB, but you can't compare their accomplishments.

In 1984, the average pass yardage per game league-wide was 228.2. Marino averaged 317.8.

In 2011, the average pass yardage per game league-wide is 243.4. Brees is averaging 341.4.

It means the "busting the record in only 15 games" part isn't all that meaningful, but their seasons are quite comparable, with Brees actually having a slightly higher rate vs. the league average.

[larrymcg421]

The league average INT% is 2.9 in 2011 and 4.1 in 1984.

[rowech]

The record is sort of meaningless now though with how much the rules have changed. Marino's season is still much more impressive than what Brees has done this year. Brees is a great QB, but you can't compare their accomplishments.

Sure you can. They're right about the same. Brees is about 40% higher than league average, Marino was 39%.

[Rizon]

SC_DougFarrar (http://twitter.com/#!/SC_DougFarrar) SC_DougFarrar
Talked to coaches/ex-coaches/tape junkies about complexity of modern defenses. Much tougher to throw against them. Narrative not so simple.

Probably why teams are completing 60% of their passes versus 56% in 1984, with 1/3 less INT.

[LloydLungs]

Brees' INT% is 2.1. Marino's was 3.0. Slight advantage to Marino, but still quite comparable.

[BillJasper]

Brees' INT% is 2.1. Marino's was 3.0. Slight advantage to Marino, but still quite comparable.

Wouldn't that be a slight advantage to Brees?

[Matthean]

SC_DougFarrar (http://twitter.com/#%21/SC_DougFarrar) SC_DougFarrar
Talked to coaches/ex-coaches/tape junkies about complexity of modern defenses. Much tougher to throw against them. Narrative not so simple.

This also assumes offenses stayed the same. Let's not forget Bress did it in 15 games.

[LloydLungs]

Wouldn't that be a slight advantage to Brees?

Marino was slightly further under the league average in 1984 than Brees in 2011.

[BillJasper]

I think some of it would come down to how much worse tackling is today. Anyone know what YAC looks like today vs. 1984?

[BillJasper]

Marino was slightly further under the league average in 1984 than Brees in 2011.

But isn't INT% based on the number of attempts a QB makes?

[larrymcg421]

Pro-football-reference has era adjusted ratings much like OPS+ and ERA+. Here's how Marino and Brees compare:

Marino

Y/A: 140
Comp%: 127
TD%: 148
INT%: 115
QBRate: 141

Brees

Y/A: 121
Comp%: 136
TD%: 126
INT%: 112
QBRate: 130

[RainMaker]

SC_DougFarrar (http://twitter.com/#!/SC_DougFarrar) SC_DougFarrar
Talked to coaches/ex-coaches/tape junkies about complexity of modern defenses. Much tougher to throw against them. Narrative not so simple.

And offenses aren't more complex too? I'd also throw in the fact that you have much better physical specimens to throw to. There weren't many Jimmy Grahams at the TE position in 1984. Throw in the fact that you could actually hit the QB in 1984. You could actually hit a WR for going over the middle. You could actually touch a receiver past 5 yards without giving an automatic first down.

It was much harder to drop back that many times back then and survive a season. And Marino didn't get to play 11 games in the comfort of a dome either with no wind, rain, or snow.

[LloydLungs]

But isn't INT% based on the number of attempts a QB makes?

Yeah, but it's easier across-the-board in 2011 to avoid interceptions. At least in part because any slight twitch by a DB today is a penalty and automatic first down.

Nevertheless, I don't believe it's accurate to say Marino's '84 season was much more impressive than Brees' 2011. Though the YAC question is interesting.

[jbergey22]

And offenses aren't more complex too? I'd also throw in the fact that you have much better physical specimens to throw to. There weren't many Jimmy Grahams at the TE position in 1984. Throw in the fact that you could actually hit the QB in 1984. You could actually hit a WR for going over the middle. You could actually touch a receiver past 5 yards without giving an automatic first down.

It was much harder to drop back that many times back then and survive a season. And Marino didn't get to play 11 games in the comfort of a dome either with no wind, rain, or snow.

In other words it is crazy to try to compare players from different eras of the NFL.

[stevew]

At least Marino has his Super Bowl rings to hold onto, now that his record has fallen

[BillJasper]

At least Marino has his Super Bowl rings to hold onto, now that his record has fallen

Well, I imagine those piles of money are all the real comfort he needs. :D

[jbergey22]

Not that it really matters as Brees would have broken the record in the 1st quarter of next weeks game but I would have preferred if he had done it within normal "game flow" rather than having him pass the ball around like they did when they were up big with 3 minutes left.

It would have been more understandable if it had been week 17.

[RainMaker]

In other words it is crazy to try to compare players from different eras of the NFL.
Probably. I think we can have fun guessing how a particular player would have fared in a different era though. I just think the hoopla over this is kind of silly considering how one dimensional the rules have made the league. Might as well throw in Arena Football stats too.

[Matthean]

And Marino didn't get to play 11 games in the comfort of a dome either with no wind, rain, or snow.

Yeah, that snowfall in Miami really screwed Marino.

[larrymcg421]

The easiest way to say it isn't as impressive is that he did it in 58 more pass attempts. When Marino broke Fouts record, he did it in 45 fewer pass attempts (actually, it is even more than that as that only counts his final number of attempts and not the number he had when he broke it.)

But I'm not trying to cast aspersions on Brees. He deserves the record. It's a great accomplishment. I just think the argument that complex defenses make things just as hard as they were 27 years ago is ludicrous.

[Doug5984]

Again.. how did the Rams beat New Orleans? :)

I can see Coach Spagnuolo calling the owner now.. "You do know we beat that team?".

Injuries to the O-line that game, and I think Coach Peyton being hurt played a lot bigger role than people want to think. The team just looked off 2 of those 3 weeks- the game it happened in Tampa (2nd half he was in the locker room), destroyed Indy but I could've called plays and been the HC for that one. Then in St Louis, he was still up in the coaches booth, the offense / play calling was very off. He also wasn't there to stare down / curse out the players as they came off the field after bad plays.

Those 2 games are coming back to haunt us right now.

Also, in regards to the record- just like all long standing records you can't compare the eras. You just have to accept that they are both great players and accomplished something special. It isn't all that easy to do in today's NFL since it has stood since '84, and Brees is the only other player to hit 5k yards (besides Brady this coming week). Brees is an amazing QB, as was Marino. Brees now holds the record, his record will fall on day, to another great QB.

Another record that may fall (i think) is the greatest show on turf yardage record.

[RainMaker]

I think in a few years we'll see multiple 5,000 yard passers on a consistent basis.

[jbergey22]

The easiest way to say it isn't as impressive is that he did it in 58 more pass attempts. When Marino broke Fouts record, he did it in 45 fewer pass attempts (actually, it is even more than that as that only counts his final number of attempts and not the number he had when he broke it.)

But I'm not trying to cast aspersions on Brees. He deserves the record. It's a great accomplishment. I just think the argument that complex defenses make things just as hard as they were 27 years ago is ludicrous.

Marino didnt have the impressive players surrouding him that Brees had either. Marino had to pass for all of them yards so they could win games. As good as Brees is many times the Saints are rushing the ball at will on teams when they decide that passing is more fun so they go chuck the ball around more.

Good for Brees though. A true class act in the NFL and a player that proved a lot of doubters wrong in many ways.

[Pumpy Tudors]

You know, there may be something to Brees breaking the record besides using it as a justification for the damned "you can't play defense in the NFL anymore" argument. I mean, maybe (just maybe) it has something to do with:


Brees just possibly playing better this year than Marino did in 1984
Brees having 58 more attempts in 15 games than Marino had in 16 games
The Saints averaging nearly a full yard per carry more than the Dolphins did, which could open up the passing game even more
Brees having more than two receivers worth anything
The Saints offense has been built for the past several years to throw the footballIt's possible that maybe Brees and the Saints actually earned this instead of Roger Goodell handing it to them by making offense too easy or defense too hard. I'm not saying everyone has to like the rules that are out there right now, but the rules did not make Drew Brees have the season he'd had. This ain't the time to push that agenda.

[larrymcg421]

You know, there may be something to Brees breaking the record besides using it as a justification for the damned "you can't play defense in the NFL anymore" argument. I mean, maybe (just maybe) it has something to do with:

Brees just possibly playing better this year than Marino did in 1984
Brees having 58 more attempts in 15 games than Marino had in 16 games
The Saints averaging nearly a full yard per carry more than the Dolphins did, which could open up the passing game even more
Brees having more than two receivers worth anything
The Saints offense has been built for the past several years to throw the footballIt's possible that maybe Brees and the Saints actually earned this instead of Roger Goodell handing it to them by making offense too easy or defense too hard. I'm not saying everyone has to like the rules that are out there right now, but the rules did not make Drew Brees have the season he'd had. This ain't the time to push that agenda.

What agenda are you talking about? Rules have made it easier for passing offenses to flourish. It's absurd to argue otherwise. Acknowledging that doesn't mean Brees didn't earn it, just like acknowledging the many other advantages Brees had (as you noted in your post) doesn't take anything away from his accomplishment. What's funny is I think the arguments in your own post make Brees look worse than discussing rules adjustments does.

[Matthean]

I'll just leave this here. :D

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/c6EguTZFK5s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[gstelmack]

If the rules had made passing so much easier than back then, why did it take this long to break the record? Yes, average passing is up, but it's still hard to have a GREAT passing year. Even Brady in 2007 couldn't hit this record, although he's still got a shot to hit it next week...

[Pumpy Tudors]

What agenda are you talking about? Rules have made it easier for passing offenses to flourish. It's absurd to argue otherwise. Acknowledging that doesn't mean Brees didn't earn it, just like acknowledging the many other advantages Brees had (as you noted in your post) doesn't take anything away from his accomplishment. What's funny is I think the arguments in your own post make Brees look worse than discussing rules adjustments does.
My argument isn't that Brees is necessarily better than Marino was. I mean, perhaps he has been, but that's just a maybe. My argument is that there are many other things that have given Brees an advantage.

The agenda I'm talking about is that people are (and will be) using Brees' record as a way to say that "you can't play defense anymore." Of course, every time that agenda gets brought up, it comes down to people wanting defenders to tackle with their helmets, quarterbacks to get their heads and knees destroyed, and receivers to get jacked up while they're making a catch. I see the arguments coming a mile away. For the next howevermany years, people will say that Brees didn't earn it, and that's the part that I find ridiculous. If you're not suggesting that Brees didn't earn it, my guns really aren't pointed at you.

[larrymcg421]

If the rules had made passing so much easier than back then, why did it take this long to break the record? Yes, average passing is up, but it's still hard to have a GREAT passing year. Even Brady in 2007 couldn't hit this record, although he's still got a shot to hit it next week...

Seems like you're making a good argument why the record is impressive in the first place instead of refuting the argument that passing is easier.

[molson]

Brees now holds the record, his record will fall one day, to another great QB.



Damn, I would love to see that "one day" be next week. It's unlikely, but possible, if Brees rests any and the Pats end up in a shootout. Of course, the fact that the Saints still have a bye to play for should keep him in the game enough to secure the record.

[RainMaker]

The agenda I'm talking about is that people are (and will be) using Brees' record as a way to say that "you can't play defense anymore." Of course, every time that agenda gets brought up, it comes down to people wanting defenders to tackle with their helmets, quarterbacks to get their heads and knees destroyed, and receivers to get jacked up while they're making a catch. I see the arguments coming a mile away. For the next howevermany years, people will say that Brees didn't earn it, and that's the part that I find ridiculous. If you're not suggesting that Brees didn't earn it, my guns really aren't pointed at you.

The player safety argument is ridiculous as long as the NFL continues to pursue areas of the sport that would increase injuries. It's about marketability. Protecting the pretty white QB while saying everyone else is fair game. Running the ball up the middle and having a defense shut down a team isn't as much fun for a casual fan as watching an Arena Football game masked as the NFL. I don't mind if that's what people want, I just think the player safety argument is disengenuous coming from the league.

And if you don't want your quarterback getting "jacked up", leave some guys in to block. Don't throw the ball 55 times. Don't send a receiver over the middle and have a quarterback lead him into a 250 pound linebacker. Teams/coaches want no responsibility in protecting players anymore which is wrong.

Brees earned the record, I don't take anything away from that. I just don't think the record means much from a historical perspective. I'd say the same thing about scoring after the 24 second clock was added to basketball or even the homerun record in baseball when you have eras where black players couldn't play in the league and steroid use in it in this era. They are different games with different rules which makes it hard to really compare two players competing for a single record.

[RainMaker]

If the rules had made passing so much easier than back then, why did it take this long to break the record? Yes, average passing is up, but it's still hard to have a GREAT passing year. Even Brady in 2007 couldn't hit this record, although he's still got a shot to hit it next week...

The rules have only recently started to change heavily toward the passing game and it's taken teams years to adjust to that. What is a great passing year now though? 4000 yards used to be a benchmark, but we'll see 10 guys (including a rookie) do it this year.

I guess I don't think this is an abberation. I think we'll see guys hover around that 5000 yard mark on a regular basis. And more and more passing as teams realize that running the ball and defense just doesn't create the chance of success that it used to.

[Ksyrup]

Week and a half too late, IMO.

MileHighReport (http://twitter.com/#!/MileHighReport) MileHighReport
Denver Broncos Waive Receiver/Returner Quan Crosby

[Pumpy Tudors]

FUCK YOU BILL COSBY

[Ksyrup]

He has hands made of pudding pops.

[Suicane75]

That sounds quite delicious.

[Pumpy Tudors]

That sounds quite delicious.
this is the nfl thread not the fetish thread thx

[sabotai]

I wonder how much people blamed rules changes for Fouts' and Marino's passing yards records in the early '80s. Did people go around saying "Fouts and Marino are helped by rule changes, so their records are not as impressive as Namath's."

[Passacaglia]

He has hands made of pudding pops.

"Hold Me"

"I Can't"

[RomaGoth]

He has hands made of pudding pops.

Kids say the darnedest things.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I wonder how much people blamed rules changes for Fouts' and Marino's passing yards records in the early '80s. Did people go around saying "Fouts and Marino are helped by rule changes, so their records are not as impressive as Namath's."
Oh, I'm sure it happened just as much. The only difference is that the audience was smaller. Today, people can use the internet to get the blame message out there. Thirty years ago, the message was confined to restrooms and subway stations where nobody was really paying attention.

[Rizon]

I wonder how much people blamed rules changes for Fouts' and Marino's passing yards records in the early '80s. Did people go around saying "Fouts and Marino are helped by rule changes, so their records are not as impressive as Namath's."

I think most people were so doped up around that time they probably didn't care.