Getting F**KED by the state of Connecticut

[Lathum]

So when I was younger I lived in Connecticut for about 18 months. In that time I had my car that I had when I moved there and I bought another car why I was there. This was in 99-00.

Fast forward to today. The phone rings at 5:45 AM, my wife answers, and it is someone calling regarding a motor vehicle tax owed from the city I used to live in that was owed. Wife says it is very early and they need to call back another time. I google the number and do some research, turns out it is a collection agency for this back tax owed.

So I go to the city website, do some research there, and discover that between the two cars, interest, and fees I now owe $9876! Never once did I get a letter, phone call, bill, nothing. The FAQ on the city website is very clear, not getting a letter is not grounds for not paying and they don't make exceptions ever about interest owed. The interest is compounded at 18% per year.

HERE IS THE KICKER-They are charging me taxes for 2001-02-03 when I didn't even live there, moved in 2000. I have no problem paying the taxes, even the interest owed, but for time I didn't even live there! WTF!!

I have no idea how to fight this. Checked my credit report, no issues, looked around online at some statute of limitations stuff. I should probably lawyer up, but oh, I live in WASHINGTON STATE!! probably not many lawyers here versed in Connecticut tax law!

Gonna start by calling the tax assessor in the AM and see what is going on.

[DaddyTorgo]

Wow. Fuck you in the ass.

[cartman]

Check carefully the statute of limitations. You might be in the clear. If you send even $1 to them to cover the 2000 period you feel is due, that resets the statute of limitations clock on the entire amount they are claiming to the moment you send the payment. If it is a collections agency calling and not the city themselves, it is likely that the collections agency bought old debts from the city for pennies on the dollar, and are trying to get people to pay on debts that have passed their legal due date.

[RainMaker]

Don't send a dime. Make them verify the debt first via mail. They have 30 days to respond to it.

Collection agencies buy up debt for pennies on the dollar even if they know it's no longer good. Some will even create fraudulent stuff. I've been getting a collection letter from Columbia House/BMG collection agency saying I owe $70. I've never used their service in my life and it appears it's a huge scam.

[Lathum]

trust me, they aren't getting a red cent from me. Especially if it is a collection agency.

[molson]

Damn, that sucks.

Just Googling this a little, it looks like a lot of people get these little surprises from old CT tax bills. I THINK the collection agencies can only report outstanding debt from the credit bureaus within 7 years of when the debt originated, so - it's possible the best approach here is just to ignore it, though you'll have to look into it. Apparently there was some legislation passed about 5 years ago that allowed CT cities to sell their old debts to collection agencies, and a few - particularly Stamford, went a little nuts with it.

[RainMaker]

Here is the thing, you don't have to do anything. They can claim you owe taxes all they want, they can send out collection letters, but they can't get a dime from you unless they sue you. They can't hurt you until it's on your credit reports. Anyone can list that you owe them money on a website, it doesn't mean you actually do.

You can send the collection agency a C&D and they won't be able to contact you anymore by law.

[Lathum]

The thing is I have worked hard to build my credit, be debt free except for mortgage and car payment, and do things right. I know likely this can't touch me, but I have a family, savings, etc. and I don't want some debt, real or not, growing at 18% hanging over my head. We can easily afford to pay it, but why would I or should I?

[cartman]

If it isn't a valid debt, then the 18% growth is just a contraption of the collection agency to try and dupe you into paying.

If you try and negotiate with them and say you are willing to pay for the 2000 time period, they will make it sound like that is cool, that is all you need to pay, and that will be it. Instead, any payment will bring those other years into play, and make things that much worse. If the statute of limitations has passed, you are in the clear, and there is nothing they can do, short of you sending them any money, to change that fact.

[stevew]

State income tax can garnish 100% of your wages. Figure this one out fast.

[JPhillips]

That's a big enough number that I'd see an attorney.

[PilotMan]

It certainly sounds like at least a phone call to a local lawyer and then perhaps a call to someone in Connecticut.

[Marmel]

This is a common problem in this great state (great state meaning shithole) of mine. The state is too lazy or inept (ok, both) to really care about getting it right so it is up to you to give them some evidence.

What I would suggest is to try and track down who your insurance company was during this time period and call them. Ask for a letter that indicates exactly what time period you had this car insured and why the insurance was cancelled (sold, totalled, moved out of state, etc.)

I work in insurance and I know you can cancel insurance and still have the car, but this letter I have done for some of my customers in this state has worked perfectly. It makes no sense, right? But the state and town halls seem to like it.

Obviously this may not work at all for you, but at least it gives you a start.

[Marmel]

State income tax can garnish 100% of your wages. Figure this one out fast.

This. And they will. CT is under a huge budget crunch and after February 1 they are going to be garnishing a lot of wages around here. I had an old state income tax bill from an adjustment for about $300 that I somehow missed. I got a real no-nonsense letter telling me, pay or garnish on Feb 1. I think this is by order of our new govenor who is a real piece of work.

[molson]

State income tax can garnish 100% of your wages.

But can a collection agency?

[spleen1015]

I had a medical bill from when I was 14 get sent to collections because my parents didn't pay it. It was found on my credit report when I was 23 and trying to buy a new car.

I don't know what it is like in CT, but my situation really sucked. The collection agency didn't care that the bills were from when I was a kid and my parents should be responsible for them. They just wanted the money. I called the doctor and they said they couldn't help me since it had been turned over to collections.

I ended up paying for it because it was on my credit report.

The story I got from my mom was that the doctor's office burned down while she was paying the bill. She hoped the records were lost and stopped paying it/ignored anything else about it.

The point of my post is, I'm not sure how you can solve this beyond paying it. The collection agency doesn't care that this charges were made in error and the state of CT will likely just tell you that you're SOL because they turned it over to a collection agency.

[Rizon]

Sounds like a scam. Or California.

[Apathetic Lurker]

I had a medical bill from when I was 14 get sent to collections because my parents didn't pay it. It was found on my credit report when I was 23 and trying to buy a new car.

I don't know what it is like in CT, but my situation really sucked. The collection agency didn't care that the bills were from when I was a kid and my parents should be responsible for them. They just wanted the money. I called the doctor and they said they couldn't help me since it had been turned over to collections.

I ended up paying for it because it was on my credit report.

The story I got from my mom was that the doctor's office burned down while she was paying the bill. She hoped the records were lost and stopped paying it/ignored anything else about it.

The point of my post is, I'm not sure how you can solve this beyond paying it. The collection agency doesn't care that this charges were made in error and the state of CT will likely just tell you that you're SOL because they turned it over to a collection agency.


I thought there was a 7 year time limit for a report to stay on your credit report

[Lathum]

I'm not concerned about wage garnishment. It is nt an income tax from what I have read. It is a motor vehicle tax. Apparently 2 different things

[RendeR]

#1 if this was a valid STATE TAX issue you would have heard from them. TRUST ME. They know how to locate you.

#2 if this were a valid debt it WOULD be on your credit report. States are notorious for reporting debts even fallacious ones. It WOULD be there.

#3 If this is actually a collection agency (a valid and reputable one) they will be contacting you by mail, not by phone at 6am.

#4 its been 11+years, with no contact from a valid source within that time any lawyer worth his ass will have this negated with a few phone calls and a filing IF in fact you discover this is a valid debt. BIG IF.

My take is this is just a scam, or a horrible collection agency trying to buy up invalid debts and make money off someone who isn't informed. Don't be bullied into anything. If its real they will send legal documentation. (and NO those stupid "lets settle your debt" forms they send en-mass are NOT legal documentation.)

[dacman]

The law is on your side here -- the collection agency has already broken it by contacting you outside of "normal" hours.

[dacman]

Fair Debt Collection Practices Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Debt_Collection_Practices_Act)

[albionmoonlight]

DCP: Connecticut Unfair Trade Practices Act (http://www.ct.gov/dcp/cwp/view.asp?a=1629&q=428768)

There may also be some federal laws to help you here.

You mentioned that you have the money to pay the debt but don't want to. That means that you might have the money to hire an attorney. The problem is that I don't know any good attorneys in CT. Google brings this up, but, again, I know nothing about them: Connecticut Consumer Protection Law Firm - Consumer Law Group (http://www.consumerlawgroup.com/)

[RendeR]

I thought there was a 7 year time limit for a report to stay on your credit report



Unless you act to remove something it will remain there forever, if it is older than 7 years then the people checking your credit normally ignore it, but that does not mean it gets removed without your input.

[RendeR]

I'm not concerned about wage garnishment. It is nt an income tax from what I have read. It is a motor vehicle tax. Apparently 2 different things


Garnishment cannot happen without a court order, even by the state. There must be numerous attempts to contact you and inform you of this ahead of time. The more I read back over this the more I'm certain its just some shady 2 bit operation trying to scratch a few bucks out of people they don't think will check up on anything.

[JediKooter]

Garnishment cannot happen without a court order, even by the state. There must be numerous attempts to contact you and inform you of this ahead of time. The more I read back over this the more I'm certain its just some shady 2 bit operation trying to scratch a few bucks out of people they don't think will check up on anything.

+10000 This.

This collection agency is hoping you are the typical uninformed consumer. If you pay them 50 dollars, they've probably made a profit. Dont talk to them on the phone and have all communications in writting. A sternly written letter informing them that any communication is to be in writting and informing them that any negative reporting to ANY credit reporting agency will not be tollerated. Also, they are not allowed to call you at work or discuss this alleged debt with anyone else.

[RendeR]

Save yourself a load of annoyance, just ignore the collection agency entirely. They got nothing that you can be bothered by.

[Apathetic Lurker]

Save yourself a load of annoyance, just ignore the collection agency entirely. They got nothing that you can be bothered by.


Nah, Fuck with them......

[RendeR]

Nah, Fuck with them......


No, thats just the thing they will use against you to get around harassment laws and drive you fucking nuts.


Please...I've BEEN there done this. its really fucking ridiculous don't give them ANYTHING to keep bugging you for.

[stevew]

The fact that he was able to find the debt on a city website is somewhat frightening. I think this is more than just some typical rah rah collection agency bullshit. I believe municipal debts aren't anything to be trifiled with.

And some collection agencies might actually be official arms of the municipality. I'd google the agency, and see what the reputation is for them. Creditboards.com

[samifan24]

Connecticut sucks. Living in Connecticut is awful. I hope you get this situation figured out but be thankful you're not still stuck in this awful state.

[sabotai]

I have spent a grand total of 1 day in CT in my life. More than enough.

[jeff061]

Spent 3 years in Groton. Ugh.

Been in Stamford the last 6 months(via hotel)....the free food and drinks balance things out.

[Lathum]

quick update- I checked the municipality website since it was the first of the month and they charged me 1.5% interest so the juice is still flowing

[Lathum]

whelp

Talked to a tax attorney in Connecticut and he told me basically we are going to have to pay. The laws are on the books and there isn't much that can be done about it.

He told me to get my records from the NJ DMV and he may be able to do something about the time I lived there that Ct. is trying to charge me.

HE said they would likely sue if we don''t pay, and since they are still charging interest we are kind of over a barrel.

One thing I am going to do before I pay is exaust all avenues trying to get it ruduced to just the principle or make some other deal.

I am also going to write a story about the whole ordeal, prior to making any payment, and send it to every news outlet in the country in the hopes someone picks up the story and exposes the criminal activity the state is engaging in behind the guise of the law.

[Ksyrup]

The law is on your side here -- the collection agency has already broken it by contacting you outside of "normal" hours.

Treble effin damages! Maybe you can sue the collection agency for enough to pay off the tax (if validly owed) and go out to a nice dinner.

[Marmel]

Have you talked to that specific town's tax assessor? What town is it?

[Lathum]

Have you talked to that specific town's tax assessor? What town is it?

It's Waterbury and apparently they have been starting to go after people on a mass scale. The attorney has been contacted by other people as well. I was advised by my attorney to not contact anyone until I spoke with the Ct. attorney. My next step will be contacting the tax assesor.

I have no problem paying the principle, this is just such a shitty thing to do in this economy to people.

[JediKooter]

If the debt is expired, they can not sue you. They can not report the debt on your credit reports if it has been more than 7 years. Seriously, it sounds like you are about to pay something, that legally, you owe zero, zilch, nada. You talked to the wrong kind of attorney. You need to talk to one that specializes in consumer debt protection.

EDIT: They can sue you, but, once it is proven to be a 'time expired debt' they've just been caught breaking the law.

2nd EDIT: I'm saying all of this assuming that the initial contact was from a debt collector.

3rd EDIT: Try this website, lots of good info on there and it's free last I checked(I've found it to be very helpful): http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php?act=idx

[Lathum]

The debt has not expired. 15 year statute of limitations

[JediKooter]

I'm seeing that it's 6 years for Conneticut. The only thing that I'm finding that is 15 years are judgements. However, now that you live in Washington state (and I'll have to double check on this), Washington state's satute of limitations may be the ones that are applicable.

EDIT: Ok finally found it. 6 years for most other debts, 15 years for local taxes (including vehicle taxes). Damn.

[Lathum]

I'm seeing that it's 6 years for Conneticut. The only thing that I'm finding that is 15 years are judgements. However, now that you live in Washington state (and I'll have to double check on this), Washington state's satute of limitations may be the ones that are applicable.

No, I've checked, believe me. 15 years is the statute of limitations for outstanding tax debt. I'm going to do more research, but at the end of the day I would rather not have this hanging over my head the rest of my life. I would rather pay the debt, assuming it is valid, and move on.

[Lathum]

I'm seeing that it's 6 years for Conneticut.

do you have a link for this? Any info is helpful

[JediKooter]

Yup, it's 15 for the local taxes there. That sucks ass. But, you might want to see if Washington states laws take precedence over Connecticuts. Hopefully Washington's is less than 15.

I can't find crap on Washington though.

[Marmel]

This seems strange even for CT. Maybe I am not understanding you correctly, but are they charging you for taxes from 2001-2003 when you didn't even live in CT anymore? Was your car registered in another state at that time? Why can't you just provide documentation showing you paid property taxes and resided in another state during that time period?

[Lathum]

This seems strange even for CT. Maybe I am not understanding you correctly, but are they charging you for taxes from 2001-2003 when you didn't even live in CT anymore? Was your car registered in another state at that time? Why can't you just provide documentation showing you paid property taxes and resided in another state during that time period?

Part of the charges is from a time I did live in the state and part is for a time I did not.

The problem is the letter I received from the collection agency states that you can only challange the debt for 2 years after the billing date, yet they wait ten years to contact you about it.

[JediKooter]

Part of the charges is from a time I did live in the state and part is for a time I did not.

The problem is the letter I received from the collection agency states that you can only challange the debt for 2 years after the billing date, yet they wait ten years to contact you about it.

I'd believe anything said by a collection agency as about as much as I'd believe a complusive liar. Did their letter also say, that if they don't hear anything from you in 90 days they will assume that this debt is valid?

[Lathum]

I'd believe anything said by a collection agency as about as much as I'd believe a complusive liar. Did their letter also say, that if they don't hear anything from you in 90 days they will assume that this debt is valid?

I don't know, and usually I don't either. I was able to go to the citites website and confirm that the debt is valid. I would never blindly believe a collection agency.

[JediKooter]

I don't know, and usually I don't either. I was able to go to the citites website and confirm that the debt is valid. I would never blindly believe a collection agency.

There's a few extra protections though for people when debts are handed over to collection agencies. I would just implore you to please exhaust every resource (as much of a PITA it is) to at least, minimize anything that may have to come out of your pocket.

This whole thing just reeks of, sorry us legislators can't balance a budget, so we're going to try and pick pocket as many people as we possible can. On a matter of priciple (not that it matters legally), if they were really worried about the debt, they would have tried to collect it when it was originally due and not 10 or 12 years later.

[Blackadar]

I'm really unclear on a number of issues here, Lathum.

1. Who owns the debt? Is it the State or the Collection Agency?

2. If it's still the State, then the debt has been assigned and the collection agency does not own the debt- simply refuse to deal with them. You have no business with them and they do not legally own the debt. End of conversation. If you really want to be a shit, demand an original notarized letter of agency before any further communications between you and the collection agency. If they sold the debt, then the 6 year statute of limitations applies and not the 15 years. My guess is that the debt has been assigned, so hit the "prove your agency" thing hard. Also, remember in that case the municipality has to follow the rules of FDCPA. Given their 5:30 AM call to you, the municipality is in violation of FDCPA. That's ammo for later if need be.

Note: It seems that the munis have been claiming they don't fall under FDCPA because this is a tax debt. That's not at all clear and their use of collection agents muddies that water even further. They don't want to have to prove that in court...that works in your favor.

3. Have you been properly and officially notified of this debt in writing? Have you responded via certified letter asking them to validate the debt?

4. Have you filed a complaint against the Collection Agency for violating the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act for contacting you at 5:30 AM?

5. Have you responded to any notices via in-writing or via telephone at all?

Look, they have to go to court to garnish your wages. I believe there is a law in CN that states they can't go to court to collect a debt after 6 years. They can't report it to any credit bureaus. So with all that said, you may owe the money, but you're probably untouchable.

FYI, they've been doing this for years. This isn't a new thing. Look on the Internet and you'll see a bunch of threads regarding this. For example,

Is there a Statute of Limitations for Connection for Personal Property Back Taxes Due (http://www.thelaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3528)

Also, here are a couple of other options/resources:

Use this: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre27.pdf

You could write and send a registered "cease and desist" letter claiming a "null and void" debt claim as per unmet FTC requirements. Send the letter tot he tax assessor. Also, you could claim that you have paid the taxes previously but that banks do not retain the canceled checks after 10 years that there is no way to prove you have done so, so cease and desist.

Personally, I'd just ignore the whole ball of wax until they served me with papers to appear in court. You have a 99% chance they're not going to do that, so this will all go away. The other way is to go on the counter-offensive and make them jump through all the legal hoops before ever getting down to brass tacks. Either way, you're just trying to delay any collection for just a couple of years until the 15 year statute of limitations runs out.

...Traditional I Am Not A Lawyer disclaimer...

[DaddyTorgo]

LIsten to Blackadar. Don't get fucked man.

[Lathum]

Update-Feedback would be appreciated

So I was able to sort out some of the original information that wasn't conveyed properly. The debt owed appears that it is fro the time I lived there. I was able to get a letter from NJ showing when I registered my vehicle there and the Waterbury Tax Assesor said that was no good since I didn't inform them within 26 months. The Tax offce basically said I owe the debt, no way around it.

The kicker is I also owe debt on my other car that was there, that I never registered in CT, but because I lived there they said I owe it. So I owe for a car that was never registered there, and I owe for a car I had registered there even though I had moved already and can prove it. Such a fucking scam.

So here is where we are at. I spoke with the Tax Clerks office. They said the collection agency, Taxserv, is basicaly contracted to collect the debt, but the city still owns it. The collection agency gets a collection fee. The city will not negotiate down to just the principle, etc...

The clerk asked if I had contacted the collection agency, I had not. She refered me to them regarding any payment. I asked her what the ramifications are, she said I can't register a vehicle in Connecticut. No problem there. She never once made any mention of legal action, the only thing she said is the collection agency may be able to report it, but to date that hasn't happened. She didn't seem interested at all in discussing finances, just cofirming the amount and that it was owed.

I received a letter from the collection agency about 3 months ago. The original phone call and that letter are the only contact to date.

Thought?

[Rizon]

Still nothing on your credit report?

[Logan]

Seems like the state of Connecticut is about to get F**KED by Lathum!

[booradley]

Seems like the state of Connecticut is about to get F**KED by Lathum!

She's needed a good f*cking for a while now. All the guys talk about it ...

[stevew]

Maybe you just make sure that you have a big enough contingency fund in order to hire a lawyer if they ever try to sue you?

[Blackadar]

Seems like the state of Connecticut is about to get ignored by Lathum!

Slight adjustment made.

[molson]

CT just isn't working out as a state. It's like a shady title loan company or a low-level mafia loan shark now. Has anyone ever said, "man, I love Connecticut!", or "Damn, Hartford's a great city!"

[Lathum]

Still nothing on your credit report?

Nothing

The thing is my wife is much less willing to take risk than I am. I want to ignore it since I feel like they really can't get to me. I haven't seen one instance of the suing anyone, garnishing wages, etc...and when I spoke with the clerk from Waterbury she didn't seem even remotely interested in discussing finances. Her answer to everything was to talk to the collection agency. You would think if they were that serious they would threaten legal action.

My wife wants to seriously consider paying it to make it go away so it isn't over our heads. She is also worried that on the off chance they come after us down the road we will owe a much larger amount.

[Rizon]

Nothing

The thing is my wife is much less willing to take risk than I am. I want to ignore it since I feel like they really can't get to me. I haven't seen one instance of the suing anyone, garnishing wages, etc...and when I spoke with the clerk from Waterbury she didn't seem even remotely interested in discussing finances. Her answer to everything was to talk to the collection agency. You would think if they were that serious they would threaten legal action.

My wife wants to seriously consider paying it to make it go away so it isn't over our heads. She is also worried that on the off chance they come after us down the road we will owe a much larger amount.

Yeah, it's a risk for sure. I honestly think they're blowing smoke up your ass in a half-assed highway robbery attempt.

Do you know if it's hit news agencies there yet? Papers, local-guy-on-your-side reporting? Might be worth a call/email/letter to a paper or bored newscaster if not.

[Lathum]

Yeah, it's a risk for sure. I honestly think they're blowing smoke up your ass in a half-assed highway robbery attempt.

Do you know if it's hit news agencies there yet? Papers, local-guy-on-your-side reporting? Might be worth a call/email/letter to a paper or bored newscaster if not.

Internet searches turn up next to nothing about it. That is why I am really skeptical about them being able to actually do anything to me. You would think if they had taken legal action against people in the past there would be stories, blogs, forum posting, etc... all over about it.

[Rizon]

Internet searches turn up next to nothing about it. That is why I am really skeptical about them being able to actually do anything to me. You would think if they had taken legal action against people in the past there would be stories, blogs, forum posting, etc... all over about it.

There must be others out there in the same situation as you are. I think I'd contact a local paper around where you use to live. See their reaction. That's the route I'd go.

I'd be really hesitant to cough up that amount of money without someone physically dragging me through the streets holding onto my balls.

[molson]

Internet searches turn up next to nothing about it. That is why I am really skeptical about them being able to actually do anything to me. You would think if they had taken legal action against people in the past there would be stories, blogs, forum posting, etc... all over about it.

I found this link around when you started this thread, it's a few years old and the article isn't there anymore, but there's 200+ angry comments about this being a common practice in Stamford. I haven't read them all to see how they were resolved, if there's any useful info, etc.

Despite delay, taxpayers still must pay - Topix (http://www.topix.com/forum/city/stamford-ct/TTBG55T5AFK2VKGQN)

[Desnudo]

Nothing

The thing is my wife is much less willing to take risk than I am. I want to ignore it since I feel like they really can't get to me. I haven't seen one instance of the suing anyone, garnishing wages, etc...and when I spoke with the clerk from Waterbury she didn't seem even remotely interested in discussing finances. Her answer to everything was to talk to the collection agency. You would think if they were that serious they would threaten legal action.

My wife wants to seriously consider paying it to make it go away so it isn't over our heads. She is also worried that on the off chance they come after us down the road we will owe a much larger amount.

What would it be in 3 years or whenever it expires? the most ridiculous thing of all is the 18% interest. I'd love to know their investing secrets where that's the return they expected.

[Lathum]

What would it be in 3 years or whenever it expires? the most ridiculous thing of all is the 18% interest. I'd love to know their investing secrets where that's the return they expected.

I havent done the exact math but it would likely double in that time.

[Passacaglia]

It would double in 4.18 years, FWIW.

[Lathum]

It would double in 4.18 years, FWIW.

well that is actually a good thing considering the statute of limitations runs out before then

[Subby]

When you wait forever for to pay your tax debt, you get bored.

When you get bored you start staring out windows.

When you start staring out windows you see things you shouldn’t see.

When you see things you shouldn’t see you need to vanish.

When you need to vanish you fake your own death.

When you fake your own death you dye your eyebrows.

When you dye your eyebrows you attend your own funeral as a guy named Phil Schifley.

Don’t attend your own funeral as a guy named Phil Schifley.

Pay your tax debt.

[JediKooter]

NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION!!!

[lynchjm24]

I got a letter too. For a car that wasn't registered for the time period the bill reflected - it was the same period early 00s. From the lovely city of Bristol.

Difference for me is that I've been registering cars in Connecticut the whole time - so someone must have just determined this debt existed. I will be ignoring it for as long as it takes.

It's ironic that Waterbury would even attempt to enforce laws. For those that aren't familiar with the history of Waterbury's mayors.... They could fill an entire prison with those scumbags.

[Mustang]

Damn, just read this.

Sounds like CT fucked up some years ago, now they have caught it and are trying to collect penalties based on their own fuck up. Which makes me believe that because they haven't gone after you beyond the collection agency with anything hard, that there is probably some law that invalidates them asking for the tax after 11 years in the first place. (That would be like putting a law on the books for taxing everyone .1% of the value of their car, not telling anyone and then trying to enforce it 10 years later with penalties. Legally, it was on the books, however.. assume there has to be some law about notifying people.)

[Dutch]

When you wait forever for to pay your tax debt, you get bored.

When you get bored you start staring out windows.

When you start staring out windows you see things you shouldn’t see.

When you see things you shouldn’t see you need to vanish.

When you need to vanish you fake your own death.

When you fake your own death you dye your eyebrows.

When you dye your eyebrows you attend your own funeral as a guy named Phil Schifley.

Don’t attend your own funeral as a guy named Phil Schifley.

Pay your tax debt.

Love that commercial. :)

[lynchjm24]

Damn, just read this.

Sounds like CT fucked up some years ago, now they have caught it and are trying to collect penalties based on their own fuck up. Which makes me believe that because they haven't gone after you beyond the collection agency with anything hard, that there is probably some law that invalidates them asking for the tax after 11 years in the first place. (That would be like putting a law on the books for taxing everyone .1% of the value of their car, not telling anyone and then trying to enforce it 10 years later with penalties. Legally, it was on the books, however.. assume there has to be some law about notifying people.)


It has nothing to do with Connecticut per se. These are local municipalities chasing local property taxes.

[Lathum]

Thus ends this saga and not well

I have just been served with an Alias tax warrant from the city and owe the amount $8311.09 by 12/31 or it goes up. Merry fucking Xmas.

It isn't about the money, we have the money, I'll be writing a check tonight. It is the principal that government can legally extort money from you and there is no recourse.

I feel violated.

[DaddyTorgo]

Thus ends this saga and not well

I have just been served with an Alias tax warrant from the city and owe the amount $8311.09 by 12/31 or it goes up. Merry fucking Xmas.

It isn't about the money, we have the money, I'll be writing a check tonight. It is the principal that government can legally extort money from you and there is no recourse.

I feel violated.

That's insanity. Can't you call a tax lawyer and pay them 2k to bargin that amount down or something?

[stevew]

That's insanity. Can't you call a tax lawyer and pay them 2k to bargin that amount down or something?

That would likely result in him paying at least 10,311.09 plus any additional penalties that may ensue.

This is one area where the government is unchecked.

[lighthousekeeper]

So what if you just ignore it? What would happen?

[molson]

Are you sure it's the city and not just some collection agency? It looks like an "alias tax warrant" might be a CT statutory creation that permits private collection agencies to pretend they're government agencies.

If for some insane reason I decided to pay any of this, I'd do it in person at city hall, I'd hand it to the mayor in person, maybe bring a news crew. What's a few hundred for a flight there if you're willing to give them $8k+?

[Lathum]

That would likely result in him paying at least 10,311.09 plus any additional penalties that may ensue.

This is one area where the government is unchecked.

yup, they are very clear they will not negotiate anything, tried it already

So what if you just ignore it? What would happen?

I would just as soon not find out since the interest is still accumulating at 18%, I am also not a fan of getting mail addressed to me that say warrant when I open it.

Are you sure it's the city and not just some collection agency? It looks like an "alias tax warrant" might be a CT statutory creation that permits private collection agencies to pretend they're government agencies.

If for some insane reason I decided to pay any of this, I'd do it in person at city hall, I'd hand it to the mayor in person, maybe bring a news crew. What's a few hundred for a flight there if you're willing to give them $8k+?

positive. I have done research, called the town, and the warrant has the city revenue collectors stamp and signature.

I will be contacting media outlets for sure.

[lighthousekeeper]

I would just as soon not find out since the interest is still accumulating at 18%.

If it helps, if you choose to go the fugitive route, you could crash at my house for a couple days.

[molson]

Maybe this will help Waterbury lure a minor league baseball team? I was born in Waterbury, and my father used to go to a ton of games at Municipal Stadium there. He said it's a shithole. Maybe they can fix it up and re-name it Lathum Stadium. I'd demand that much at least. Fuckers.

[Chubby]

you were given a warrant via mail??? was it even certified mail?

[bhlloy]

Chubby has a point. Even certified mail isn't good enough to prove delivery of a warrant as far as I'm aware

[Lathum]

no, but this debt is legit, I have done enough research.

My wife made a good point, we were on the fence about paying it before this and this pushes us over the edge. Having the piece of mind will at least be nice.

[DanGarion]

What the hell is a city taxing you for a car for anyway? Do you live in the UK?

[molson]

There was a collection agency involved here at some point though, wasn't there? But now its the city again? I'd worry that this is like responding to a spam email - the collection agency will sell your personal info and other agencies will try to dig up everything they can find on you (or make stuff up) because they know you'll pay to have them go away. Giving in for "peace of mind" to me just feels like an invitation to further victimization, but that may just be a gut reaction.

[Lathum]

There was a collection agency involved here at some point though, wasn't there? But now its the city again? I'd worry that this is like responding to a spam email - the collection agency will sell your personal info and other agencies will try to dig up everything they can find on you (or make stuff up) because they know you'll pay to have them go away. Giving in for "peace of mind" to me just feels like an invitation to further victimization, but that may just be a gut reaction.

The agency hand;es collection for the city. However, everything I have researched, including talking to attornys indicates the city can come after me and they are now involved again, I would rathen not have it get worse, incur more interest plus court fees.

It feels like quitting and being taken advantage of, but I honestly think there isn't another way

[lighthousekeeper]

He spoke to the town and they said that the state (or city whatever) still owns the debt - the collection agency was just acting as their representative.

It's legit and he owes the money - but it would be a lot more fun for us if you continue to fight this.

[molson]

no, but this debt is legit,

In so much as $8k for the privilege of owning a car in a city for 18 months could be considered "legit."

[Lathum]

In so much as $8k for the privilege of owning a car in a city for 18 months could be considered "legit."

The principle is about 2300, the rest interest. It conveniently took 10 years of interest accruing for them to contact me.


They are also charging me for time I didn't live there and will not accept any documentation indicating otherwise stating I have only 2 years to provide that.

[RedKingGold]

The principle is about 2300, the rest interest. It conveniently took 10 years of interest accruing for them to contact me.


They are also charging me for time I didn't live there and will not accept any documentation indicating otherwise stating I have only 2 years to provide that.

I wonder if this is a potential 1983 violation, it seems like you should have been owed some type of due process.

[DaddyTorgo]

It also seems ridiculous that they can chase you down 10 years later, but you only have 2 years to provide the documentation of when you lived there. That seems like a massively fucked-up thing.

[Dreghorn2]

Just an amazing tale and i am very sympathetic (and outraged at the same time) to think that a state government can get away with this.

It sucks but i agree with you, pay it.

I will repeat once again... it sucks! but i would pay it, piece of mind etc..

You exchanged $8000 for a great bitchfest story.

Small consolation.

[Daimyo]

Sounds like you're resigned to paying it so you don't have the debt over your head and I might do the same in your situation. But not being in your situation I have the liberty to approach it completely theoretically and so here are my thoughts...

Above you mentioned a three year statute of limitations. Assuming that is true, the worst case is that you get sued before three years and have to pay the amount with three years more interest (8,311.09 * 1.015^36 = $14,204.81). So if you pay you pay $8k now, if you don't pay you either pay $0 or $14k in three years.

Unless you're super risk adverse, if you think its only 50/50 they come after you, then you're better off not paying now. If you're risk neutral there has to be a >58% chance of them suing you (and winning) for you to be better off paying now. It seems to me very unlikely they'll sue. The primary means they have of forcing people to pay is putting holds on future registrations which probably is very effective overall since most of the people who owe probably still live there. They probably make plenty of money recovering from people who still live in CT and wouldn't want to risk the bad publicity of actually suing someone and threatening that gravy train.

If you're risk adverse and can't stomach the idea of having a surprise $14k payment in three years, maybe you could put the full $8,311.09 in an ING savings account today and setup an auto transfer of $165/month to the account. That savings account will grow at roughly the same rate as the debt with interest and fully hedge your risk. If they sue you and win you empty the account to pay the debt. If they don't sue you and it expires you have an extra $14k in three years. That way you get the benefit of them likely not suing you with the comfort that you'll be able to afford to pay if they do.

[saldana]

wow...this is insane...i told you never to move to that shithole...not one good thing happened as a result of you living there.

[Logan]

They originally claimed you owed nearly $9900, now it's $8311. What got knocked down?

[stevew]

I'm somewhat surprised they never have tried to garnish. At this point that is the only thing offhand that suggests that you could possibly not pay it. Seems like they could have easily taken your wages but haven't. If their plan for collection is to have you mail a check, that's a weak plan by them.

[Desnudo]

The principle is about 2300, the rest interest. It conveniently took 10 years of interest accruing for them to contact me.


They are also charging me for time I didn't live there and will not accept any documentation indicating otherwise stating I have only 2 years to provide that.

I agree with your decision. Better to put it in the rear view mirror and move on. When you're a crusty old man you can waste time and mental energy fighting crap like this.

[DaddyTorgo]

Sounds like you're resigned to paying it so you don't have the debt over your head and I might do the same in your situation. But not being in your situation I have the liberty to approach it completely theoretically and so here are my thoughts...

Above you mentioned a three year statute of limitations. Assuming that is true, the worst case is that you get sued before three years and have to pay the amount with three years more interest (8,311.09 * 1.015^36 = $14,204.81). So if you pay you pay $8k now, if you don't pay you either pay $0 or $14k in three years.

Unless you're super risk adverse, if you think its only 50/50 they come after you, then you're better off not paying now. If you're risk neutral there has to be a >58% chance of them suing you (and winning) for you to be better off paying now. It seems to me very unlikely they'll sue. The primary means they have of forcing people to pay is putting holds on future registrations which probably is very effective overall since most of the people who owe probably still live there. They probably make plenty of money recovering from people who still live in CT and wouldn't want to risk the bad publicity of actually suing someone and threatening that gravy train.

If you're risk adverse and can't stomach the idea of having a surprise $14k payment in three years, maybe you could put the full $8,311.09 in an ING savings account today and setup an auto transfer of $165/month to the account. That savings account will grow at roughly the same rate as the debt with interest and fully hedge your risk. If they sue you and win you empty the account to pay the debt. If they don't sue you and it expires you have an extra $14k in three years. That way you get the benefit of them likely not suing you with the comfort that you'll be able to afford to pay if they do.

This is an awesomely intriguing idea. If they don't sue you and the statue of limitations expires, you put the 14k in Colin's college savings account.

[Lathum]

This is an awesomely intriguing idea. If they don't sue you and the statue of limitations expires, you put the 14k in Colin's college savings account.

Or the state changes statute of limitations or some other part of the law and I owe 50k in 10 years. Or they sue me and I have to pay mine and their legal fees. Not worth it.

[DaddyTorgo]

Or the state changes statute of limitations or some other part of the law and I owe 50k in 10 years. Or they sue me and I have to pay mine and their legal fees. Not worth it.

True those are possibilities - and yes, in the end it's your decision and you have to be able to sleep at night.

Just a shitty pill to swallow man.

[cuervo72]

Kramer Statue of Limitations - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq8gfaFqFpI)

[Logan]

I admire your decision to take one on the chin and pay...like you say, it's a valid debt that you owe.

But to me, that's the $2800 or whatever the number was. The 10 years of interest at 18fuckingpercent, applied without any notice first, is bullshit though. It's one thing when they've sent you bills saying the juice is running, and you ignore it hoping it goes away. You didn't do that. By all accounts, if they did send you a bill back then, you would have paid it.

Some things are worth fighting for. I'd let them take me to court and show up with a check for the actual fee, and tell them that if they want a dollar more than that, you'll take your chances with the judge.

[Glengoyne]

Right there with Molson on this being a collection agency.


While the state may well be unchecked, the collection agency probably has limited recourse available.

[cartman]

Or the state changes statute of limitations or some other part of the law and I owe 50k in 10 years. Or they sue me and I have to pay mine and their legal fees. Not worth it.

Ex post facto. Once the statute of limitations has expired, they can't retroactively make the time period longer.

[stevew]

The fucked up thing is you can't file like some "show cause for me owing money" shit and just bring the whole thing to head in front of a legal authority and end it once and for all.

[Lathum]

Right there with Molson on this being a collection agency.


While the state may well be unchecked, the collection agency probably has limited recourse available.

the collection agency only acts on behalf of the city, I've confirmed this with the city. It isn't some shifty operation that purchased the debt. The state may have limited recourse but I would rather not test those limits.

[Poli]

First I saw of this Lathum. This royally sucks. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

[Marmel]

You are insane to pay this Lathum. What is the worst thing they could do to you?

[Lathum]

You are insane to pay this Lathum. What is the worst thing they could do to you?

garnish wages
come back in 3 years when it is 7K more and take me to court + court fees
jail for tax evasion
report it to credit agencies

just a few things that come to mind...


They very well may have no recourse, but after doing my own research, talking to the city, and speaking with multiple attorneys I think the prudent thing to do is pay it. Stings a little but financially not a huge deal to us.

[DaddyTorgo]

I admire your decision to take one on the chin and pay...like you say, it's a valid debt that you owe.

But to me, that's the $2800 or whatever the number was. The 10 years of interest at 18fuckingpercent, applied without any notice first, is bullshit though. It's one thing when they've sent you bills saying the juice is running, and you ignore it hoping it goes away. You didn't do that. By all accounts, if they did send you a bill back then, you would have paid it.

This. This is the part that really pisses me off as a consumer. It's absofuckinglutely ridiculous.

[MacroGuru]

This leaves a nasty taste to me. I am flabbergasted you have no recourse due to "Statute of Limitations". It scares me honestly.

[BYU 14]

garnish wages
come back in 3 years when it is 7K more and take me to court + court fees
jail for tax evasion
report it to credit agencies

just a few things that come to mind...


They very well may have no recourse, but after doing my own research, talking to the city, and speaking with multiple attorneys I think the prudent thing to do is pay it. Stings a little but financially not a huge deal to us.

I have to agree, they have already demonstrated that they are fully willing to change the rules of the game in terms of limitations, as well as taking a hardline approach.

This just totally sucks and I have encountered this, albeit on a much smaller scale where you basically have no choice but to take it.

I do like your idea of going to the media though, may not help you, but if it gets enough attention it could force some changes or at least accountability on the state admit there are flaws in how they administer these taxes.

[gstelmack]

Might be worth writing to Consumer Reports about the situation, this is the sort of thing they enjoy shining a spotlight on.

[MrBug708]

You should start some sort of blog/youtube video for a level of spotlight about what has happened. If there is enough interest, the media would be able to run with it

Or just go to 4chan and let them do their work

[gstelmack]

A CNN iReport could be fun, too.

[Toddzilla]

I'd take a trip back to Connecticut there and commit $9000 worth of vandalism on various state-owned properties.

[molson]

I'd take a trip back to Connecticut there and commit $9000 worth of vandalism on various state-owned properties.

There's nothing worth $9000 in Waterbury.

[53Hipster76]

I would not pay them a dime (Right now). The reason being is that you would think that the town would do audits on their books yearly and see what outstanding debts are dued. If they could not find your tax debt, why should you be penislized for something that you were not aware of. You would think the town would send out notices yearly on your lien. What I would do is to see if I can just pay the principle amount (I would not pay them interest on their mistakes) and set up a repayment schedule, otherwise no dice. Why should you have to pay for someone elses screwup.You mean that for eleven years, you were not made aware of your tax lien. That is unusual. I would either bargain with them and if they did not want to negotiate fairly, I would just wait for the statue of limitations to run out. Just ignore the collection agency.
I tell you something that happened to me a few years ago. I received a traffic violation from NYC for illegal parking in Brooklyn. Well, for one, I have never lived or driven or parked in Brooklyn. What I had to do was to take Polaroids of my vehicle and License Plate and send it to the court that the violation was in error. It seems that the P.O. writing the violation could not write well and mistakenly wrote my license plate number instead of the real one.
The ticket was for a green colored vehicle and my vehicle is red.

[Toddzilla]

There's nothing worth $9000 in Waterbury.

That's whats convenient about vandalism - just vandalize $100 at a time 90 times :)

[cartman]

I'd take a trip back to Connecticut there and commit $9000 worth of vandalism on various state-owned properties.

Cool Hand Lathum?

[sterlingice]

So you're saying it's time for everyone to visit Waterbury for some petty vandalism?

SI

[53Hipster76]

What I think Lathum is referring to is a "use" tax that the "GREAT???" state of connecticut charges when you register a vehicle there. Don't you have to pay the tax or fee before you can register vehicle? That is what I find is unusual.
I worked in Danbury and had to go to Bridgeport sometimes to pick up or deliver parts and had to drive thru Waterbury. There is ABSOLUTELY nothing in Waterbury and Bridgeport.
Another thing about connecticut and is true about new york, is that if you live in new york but work in connecticut, you have to pay state income tax even though you have no representation. It also wors in reverse, if you live in connecticut but work in New York, you have to pay NYS income taxes. This crazy Sh*t has to come to an end. Some F**cking democracy we have, isn't it.

[JediKooter]

I'd wait to pay it until after the 1st of the year. That way they can't use any of that money for their Holiday party.

[stevew]

I think that you could eat a bunch of microwave burritos and go on an upper decker rain of terror throughout the state

[Lathum]

I would not pay them a dime (Right now). The reason being is that you would think that the town would do audits on their books yearly and see what outstanding debts are dued. If they could not find your tax debt, why should you be penislized for something that you were not aware of. You would think the town would send out notices yearly on your lien. What I would do is to see if I can just pay the principle amount (I would not pay them interest on their mistakes) and set up a repayment schedule, otherwise no dice. Why should you have to pay for someone elses screwup.You mean that for eleven years, you were not made aware of your tax lien. That is unusual. I would either bargain with them and if they did not want to negotiate fairly, I would just wait for the statue of limitations to run out. Just ignore the collection agency.


The law states very specifically you are responsible whether you are aware of the debt or not and the city bears no responsibility to inform you of the debt. They send no notices and make no phone calls.

I attempted to pay just the principle. I am not trying to get out of what I owe, nor am I complaining about it. The issue is they do not negotiate at all, they will not take just the principle. I attempted to go through the city directly, who refered me to the agency, who would no negotiate at all. I have no desire to do a payment schedule and continue paying interest on the outstanding amount.

Ignoring the collection agency is not the problem, I have now in essence been served by the cities tax collector, this is not something to ignore and will not go away.

The laws are written to hammer people like me who had no knowledge of the debt. The city knew exactly what they were doing when they wrote the law.

[Lathum]

I'd wait to pay it until after the 1st of the year. That way they can't use any of that money for their Holiday party.

Would cost me more in interest. I hope the tax collector chokes on an olive

[molson]

This issue has been covered by the CT media, but I've never seen a $9,000 bill in any of the articles. This guy got an news team investigation, an article, and eventually a letter of apology from the state commissioner of motor vehicles - all for a $207 tax bill.

Stratford man gets his car tax bill –– 13 years late - Connecticut Post (http://www.ctpost.com/news/article/Stratford-man-gets-his-car-tax-bill-13-641176.php)

[cartman]

If you haven't already mailed the check, here's something to consider. Send them two checks, one for the original amount and another for the interest and penalties. Send a letter along stating what you've said here, that you are more than willing to pay the original amount owed. Also state that if you see the second check for the penalties and interest clear your account, that you will send this story along to various news and consumer rights outlets, listing them by name.

[Noop]

You should have probably hired a tax lawyer. It sounds like they may have an argument for them violating your fifth amendment due process right. Before the government can do anything to you they must give you notice and an opportunity to be heard in a meaningful manner at a meaningful time.

*I am not a lawyer and my advice is not legal just academic*

[DaddyTorgo]

The law states very specifically you are responsible whether you are aware of the debt or not and the city bears no responsibility to inform you of the debt. They send no notices and make no phone calls.

The laws are written to hammer people like me who had no knowledge of the debt. The city knew exactly what they were doing when they wrote the law.

How is that even possible is my question??

How can you pay something that you're not even aware of?? :confused:

[DaddyTorgo]

You should have probably hired a tax lawyer. It sounds like they may have an argument for them violating your fifth amendment due process right. Before the government can do anything to you they must give you notice and an opportunity to be heard in a meaningful manner at a meaningful time.

*I am not a lawyer and my advice is not legal just academic*

Soon you'll be a lawyer lil-Noop!

[Noop]

Soon you'll be a lawyer lil-Noop!

I'm already there DT, miserable and self-loathing... I got it in spades.


P.S. I haven't been lil in a long time. ;)

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm already there DT, miserable and self-loathing... I got it in spades.


P.S. I haven't been lil in a long time. ;)

Haha :D

[Lathum]

You should have probably hired a tax lawyer. It sounds like they may have an argument for them violating your fifth amendment due process right. Before the government can do anything to you they must give you notice and an opportunity to be heard in a meaningful manner at a meaningful time.

*I am not a lawyer and my advice is not legal just academic*

we consulted a CT consumer affairs attorney as well as a Ct tax lawyer, both said not much we can do. The law is the law

[Chubby]

The law states very specifically you are responsible whether you are aware of the debt or not and the city bears no responsibility to inform you of the debt. They send no notices and make no phone calls.

I attempted to pay just the principle. I am not trying to get out of what I owe, nor am I complaining about it. The issue is they do not negotiate at all, they will not take just the principle. I attempted to go through the city directly, who refered me to the agency, who would no negotiate at all. I have no desire to do a payment schedule and continue paying interest on the outstanding amount.

Ignoring the collection agency is not the problem, I have now in essence been served by the cities tax collector, this is not something to ignore and will not go away.

The laws are written to hammer people like me who had no knowledge of the debt. The city knew exactly what they were doing when they wrote the law.

how can they prove they "served" you? you got a letter 1st class mail

[JPhillips]

we consulted a CT consumer affairs attorney as well as a Ct tax lawyer, both said not much we can do. The law is the law

If local lawyers say you're screwed, you're screwed.

Making a media stink about it, though, might help people in the future.

[DaddyTorgo]

That's some fucked up law.

They have no duty to notify you about the tax (let alone the interest rate and shit) and can come after you at any point to collect it?

So what's to stop them from basically just pulling a number out of thin area 25 years after you've moved away?

[JediKooter]

Would cost me more in interest. I hope the tax collector chokes on an olive

Damn it. I'd send them a letter stating that you sent them the payment and it's their responsibility to cash the check regardless of whether or not they are aware of receiving the payment.

[Logan]

If local lawyers say you're screwed, you're screwed.

I find it amazing that any lawyer would ever tell you that there is absolutely, positively no way out of something.

[albionmoonlight]

how can they prove they "served" you? you got a letter 1st class mail

This thread would help :)

[albionmoonlight]

I find it amazing that any lawyer would ever tell you that there is absolutely, positively no way out of something.

A good lawyer should give you an assessment of your odds. If people have tried to fight this law in the past and gotten nothing for their trouble other than a larger interest payment, then the lawyer can (and almost certainly should) advise that the best thing to do is pay it.

We tend to see lawyers when they are litigating. But a LOT of the job is advising about when not to litigate.

[molson]

As far as I can tell the big thing that makes CT different than anywhere else is that statute of limitations. 15 years! That combined with the statutorily-permitted loan shark interest rates lets them lay low and let that debt add up. Every other state I'm aware of has a tax collection statute of limitations of 4 or 5 years. There have been some attempts to both reduce the statute of limitations in CT, and to require actual notice at some point, but they've always failed. I knew CT has the big insurance industry there, I guess they also have a powerful debt collection lobby that influences legislature there successfully. Because the private collection agencies get a cut of all this, CT allows them to get involved pretty early on as long as they're only operating under the "supervision" of the city (whatever that means).

PROPERTY TAX COLLECTION STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS (http://www.cga.ct.gov/2008/rpt/2008-R-0643.htm)

Edit: Also, statutorily, CT cities cannot negotiate away the interest. The stated idea there is that they don't want cities to negotiate the interest away for some people (who may be politically well connected, for example), and not others. You can negotiate down (and appeal) the valuation of your property, but not the interest. Which of course, creates a hilarious complement with that 15-year statute of limitations and 18% interest rate. They might not pursue you as aggressively if you pay the principle, on the other hand they might pursue you 10 times as aggressively because they'd know you exist, and have some money.

[Noop]

we consulted a CT consumer affairs attorney as well as a Ct tax lawyer, both said not much we can do. The law is the law

I would have consulted with more then one to be honest.


I find it amazing that any lawyer would ever tell you that there is absolutely, positively no way out of something.

Exactly. Not knowing the law of that state but just looking at what Lathum has stated this seems like 14th Amendment procedural due process, and a taking.

[digamma]

Exactly. Not knowing the law of that state but just looking at what Lathum has stated this seems like 14th Amendment procedural due process, and a taking.

This is a good way to spend an eff ton of money without any real hope of success. Taxes aren't takings and the use of tax warrants is pretty well established. No formal charges have been brought, so you're not dealing with a due process violation.

Really sucky situation overall, but it seems like Lathum has done his diligence and reached a reasonable, if disappointing, conclusion.

[dawgfan]

If local lawyers say you're screwed, you're screwed.

Making a media stink about it, though, might help people in the future.
Yup. No reason not to see if Lathum can get some media on this to make a big stink about it and put some real pressure on the CT legislators to fix this fucked-up law.

Since Lathum lived in Seattle for a while, he probably remembers a local TV consumer protection guy named Jesse Jones ("Get Jesse") - this is exactly the kind of thing he'd be all over if it were a local issue. There has to be someone in the North East that has a similar niche that would fall all over themselves to report this case.

[Noop]

This is a good way to spend an eff ton of money without any real hope of success. Taxes aren't takings and the use of tax warrants is pretty well established. No formal charges have been brought, so you're not dealing with a due process violation.

Really sucky situation overall, but it seems like Lathum has done his diligence and reached a reasonable, if disappointing, conclusion.

Hmm not a taking... but definitely I think he deserved notice of the tax

[molson]

A couple of years ago the United States Supreme Court held that a state has to take reasonable steps to notify someone before they can sell their property to satisfy unpaid tax debt - steps beyond just sending a letter that gets returned for having a bad address. Obviously, that's not directly on point here, but, not being a tax expert, I could see an argument for extending those principles to situations where interest is accruing without notice. I'd be pretty shocked if nobody's tried to argue that in a lower court since that case though, or if there's not any obvious distinction there that I'm missing.

More in my line of expertise, I know that the state only has to prove constructive notice when they charge someone with driving on a suspended license - they don't have to prove that the driver actually knew he was suspended, only that the DMV sent the suspension notice to whatever the address the driver had on file with them. This isn't a criminal situation of course, but it is kind of surprising that in CT, they apparently don't even have show that they ever attempted notice while the interest accrues over 10 years.

Jones v. Flowers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jones_v._Flowers)

[sterlingice]

Have you considered paying it in pennies?

SI

[molson]

Have you considered paying it in pennies?

SI

Or maybe with a bag with a dollar sign on it filled with cash.

[dzilla77]

Or maybe with a bag with a dollar sign on it filled with cash.

When you drop it off, you should also give them a mask and toy gun. Before you hand over the money, tell them to put the mask on and point the gun at you.

[DaddyTorgo]

Have you considered paying it in pennies?

SI

Hire a truck to pay it in nickels and inform the local TV news and have a friend there to put it online. Least you can do is embarrass them - they might even be so embarrassed they decline to accept payment.

Seriously.

[stevew]

Bring in 9000 loose dollar bills

[cuervo72]

MAKE IT RAIN

[Logan]

Hey Lathum, not sure if you missed this among all the posts but I'm legitimately curious...

They originally claimed you owed nearly $9900, now it's $8311. What got knocked down?

[Lathum]

Hey Lathum, not sure if you missed this among all the posts but I'm legitimately curious...

I did.

So basically they are only submitting collection for one of the cars, the one with the higher bill. To date they hace ignored the other one, which is much lower. That leads me to believe even further they completely know what they are doing by letting the bill get so high from interest, then coming after you.

[Lathum]

Since Lathum lived in Seattle for a while, he probably remembers a local TV consumer protection guy named Jesse Jones ("Get Jesse") - this is exactly the kind of thing he'd be all over if it were a local issue. There has to be someone in the North East that has a similar niche that would fall all over themselves to report this case.

haha, lots of get Jesse jokes were made with my friends in Seattle over this.

for some reason I'm not laughing as much about it now.

[DaddyTorgo]

I still don't get how this is legal - they basically don't have to notify you (thus giving you no opportunity to pay it off) until they decide that they want to?

That just seems...fundamentally wrong.

Note to self - never move to CT.

[albionmoonlight]

Hmm not a taking... but definitely I think he deserved notice of the tax

FWIW, my instincts are the same as yours here.

But, things get weird when cities/states are involved. And if a couple of local lawyers say that this fight isn't worth having, then I would tend to agree with them.

[Logan]

I guess I'm still unclear on what the original tax was owed for. Were you supposed to pay tax on a car you purchased/sold and never did? Is there basically a use tax for owning cars in CT that people are supposed to be paying annually?

Maybe it's because I haven't owned a car in years, but I'm having trouble understanding this, not even taking into account the ridiculous interest, penalties, failure to notify BS, etc.

[Lathum]

I guess I'm still unclear on what the original tax was owed for. Were you supposed to pay tax on a car you purchased/sold and never did? Is there basically a use tax for owning cars in CT that people are supposed to be paying annually?

Maybe it's because I haven't owned a car in years, but I'm having trouble understanding this, not even taking into account the ridiculous interest, penalties, failure to notify BS, etc.

there is an annual motor vehicle tax. The city says they send a bill, but either way you are responsible for knowing about it and paying it, even if it is 13 years later.

[Logan]

Got it, thanks. And yeah that sucks.

[molson]

I think in most MA cities you have to pay an excise tax of $25 for every $1,000 worth of car annually or something (and I think there were some exemptions for part of it because it never came out to be that much). It was a pain in the ass to get that bill, I can't imagine paying $2,300 for 18 months or 2 years or whatever. Waterbury's not exactly a rich city.

[Lathum]

I think in most MA cities you have to pay an excise tax of $25 for every $1,000 worth of car annually or something (and I think there were some exemptions for part of it because it never came out to be that much). It was a pain in the ass to get that bill, I can't imagine paying $2,300 for 18 months or 2 years or whatever. Waterbury's not exactly a rich city.

well part of the amount is them charging me for after I moved awy. And even though I can show them insurance cards, utility bills, leases, etc... they refuse to take those years off snce the car wasn't actually registered yet.