2012 MLB Thread (Cabrera Gets Triple Crown, first since Yaz 1967)

[sterlingice]

HAPPY PITCHERS AND CATCHERS REPORT DAY!

Spring is almost here and I just renewed my MLB Audio subscription for another year

(well, except Seattle and Oakland)

SI

[Vince, Pt. II]

Seems like there was a pretty even split between today and yesterday for report days. Except Seattle who showed up last week apparently.

[Scoobz0202]

One of the most hopeful days of the year for me.

Love baseball. Fuck winter.

[sterlingice]

Seattle and Oakland showed up last week because they have the opening series in Japan a week early

I was going off of the "official" calendar- you know, like MLK's birthday (Observed) :)
MLB Important Dates | MLB.com: Schedule (http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/schedule/important_dates.jsp)

SI

[MizzouRah]

Let's go Cardinals!!!

[sterlingice]

Oh, and for the record, MLB is kindof a pain to deal with on their site with regards to payment.

MLB Audio signs you up to auto-renew next year unless you "cancel your subscription". You still get to listen all year, even if you cancel- but it makes it sound like "the only way you can opt out for automatic renewal is if you cancel".

Second, they save your credit card profile without your permission and there's no way to delete it that I can tell.

What a pain: is this the interwebs circa 2003?

SI

[Lathum]

Re MLB network. Good luck finding anynkindbofbhelp from a human.

[stevew]

Oh, and for the record, MLB is kindof a pain to deal with on their site with regards to payment.

MLB Audio signs you up to auto-renew next year unless you "cancel your subscription". You still get to listen all year, even if you cancel- but it makes it sound like "the only way you can opt out for automatic renewal is if you cancel".

Second, they save your credit card profile without your permission and there's no way to delete it that I can tell.

What a pain: is this the interwebs circa 2003?

SI

Oh yeah, they're a bunch of Mofo's. I don't like having to send an email and pray that it's not renewed. I do like the iPhone app since I can just buy it when I want.

[Ryan S]

Oh, and for the record, MLB is kindof a pain to deal with on their site with regards to payment.

I remember a few years back there was an option to opt out of the auto renewal, it's a shame that has gone.

I see that they have a paypal option. I think that is what I will use this season.

[sterlingice]

Paypal is going to be my way to go next season unless they somehow can tie that in for renewal (stupid)

SI

[molson]

We're a little OT already but I wonder how much automatic renewals cost consumers every year for products they don't even want. How far can this go? I bet in a few years they'll be a standard part of new car purchase agreements. 5 years later they show up with a new car and a $15,000 bill.

[Suicane75]

I just got my notification that I would be renewed on the 28th and when I went to the page it said I had no subscriptions so there was nothing to cancel. I think the same thing happened last year and I just let it go and I ended up getting charged when it came time to renew, didn't use it once. This year I smartened up and emailed them. I'm pretty sure I've had it for 2 or 3 years now where I didn't want or use it. Ultimately it's the users fault but they sure don't make it easy for you.

[Crapshoot]

Ok, all the other leagues can relax now - baseball is back!

[Chief Rum]

Love the start of spring training. It's not only the start of baseball for me, but the start of spring. Spring and early summer are pretty much my favorite times of the year.

I am also hopeful that the Rangers' recent success and the Angels' uber offseason will lead to a little more heightened coverage from the Eastern Sports Programming Network this year, especially when they're playing each other. I know we'll still get snowed by Boston-New York, but it would be neat to see them give similar treatment to a Texas-Anaheim series.

[rowech]

I'm debating switching to MLBTV from Extra Innings Direct TV this year. How good are the HD feeds? Can I stream games onto my IPAD? I have a PS3 and ROKU box for my other two TVs.

[Scoobz0202]

So.. I'm not seeing a monthly subscription? Do I have to purchase an annual subscription? I've had it the past couple of years, but I don't know how much I'll be using it this year...

I swear the past couple years I've paid monthly.

[ISiddiqui]

Hooray!! Baseball is almost upon us!!

[Scoobz0202]

I'm debating switching to MLBTV from Extra Innings Direct TV this year. How good are the HD feeds? Can I stream games onto my IPAD? I have a PS3 and ROKU box for my other two TVs.

Don't quote me, but I'm pretty sure you can on an iPad. I use my PS3 for tv, and when I'm out and about I can watch on my Android phone. You need to purchase the At.Bat app for the 2012 season whenever that comes out, though.

Only thing I am unsure of is if it requires flash which is why it would work on my Android. I highly doubt they have it setup for Android, but not iOS, though. That would be stupid.

RE: Feed. I've always found it perfectly fine on my PS3. When using wifi on my phone it was fine as well. I'm excited about the 4G on my Android now as I should be good everywhere.

[Scoobz0202]

dola -

Products | MLB.com: Subscriptions (http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/subscriptions/index.jsp?content=products&c_id=mlb)

[rowech]

Don't quote me, but I'm pretty sure you can on an iPad. I use my PS3 for tv, and when I'm out and about I can watch on my Android phone. You need to purchase the At.Bat app for the 2012 season whenever that comes out, though.

Only thing I am unsure of is if it requires flash which is why it would work on my Android. I highly doubt they have it setup for Android, but not iOS, though. That would be stupid.

RE: Feed. I've always found it perfectly fine on my PS3. When using wifi on my phone it was fine as well. I'm excited about the 4G on my Android now as I should be good everywhere.

Well, I'm not sure if I'm lucky or what but I called Directv asking if they could lower the price of Extra Innings package down to something closer to MLBTV as I was considering the versatility of that over being locked to just DirectTV.

They offered 10 bucks off my bill for 6 months which put it in the ballpark. I hemmed and hawed a bit more and then the whopper of 20 bucks off my bill for 12 months. Essentially, they're paying me 30 bucks to get the baseball package this year. I'm still in disbelief. Of course, my first reaction was stupidly -- now I can have both.

[stevew]

I'm debating switching to MLBTV from Extra Innings Direct TV this year. How good are the HD feeds? Can I stream games onto my IPAD? I have a PS3 and ROKU box for my other two TVs.

I find that it has a slight look of being streamed. It's not 100% as good as TV, but it's probably 85-90%. I think you can get it onto your iPad too, but I'm not 100% sure. Also, you might actually be blacked out for the Reds if you live in a certain area though.

[rowech]

I find that it has a slight look of being streamed. It's not 100% as good as TV, but it's probably 85-90%. I think you can get it onto your iPad too, but I'm not 100% sure. Also, you might actually be blacked out for the Reds if you live in a certain area though.

I know the Reds games would be blacked out but I would still get the broadcast for their games through regional Fox Sports.

[EagleFan]

When do the depressed or cranky pitchers report?

[Logan]

I've never been less excited for a season. A part of my refuses to root for the Mets until the Wilpons sell the team, but there's a piece of my soul that can't let go.

[MrBug708]

Counting down the days til the team is sold

[SackAttack]

Counting down the days til the team is sold

+1

(wonder if a Visa gift card is usable for a subscription. I need the dulcet tones of Mssr Scully.)

[PilotMan]

Counting down the days til the team is sold

+2000

[tucker rocky]

HAPPY PITCHERS AND CATCHERS REPORT DAY!

Spring is almost here and I just renewed my MLB Audio subscription for another year

(well, except Seattle and Oakland)

SI

What's wrong with the Seattle and Oakland audio of their games? :D

[Ksyrup]

We're a little OT already but I wonder how much automatic renewals cost consumers every year for products they don't even want. How far can this go? I bet in a few years they'll be a standard part of new car purchase agreements. 5 years later they show up with a new car and a $15,000 bill.

I seriously doubt it will ever apply to most products like this, but there has been legislation introduced/passed in a number of states over the past several years that places restrictions on company's auto-renewal shenanigans on "service contracts." It varies by state, but some of these laws are applicable to things like phone service and gym memberships.

[Dutch]

Tampa Bay Rays Top 5 Questions this off-season.


Can Matt Moore give us 15 solid starts in his debut season?
Is Desmond Jennings ready to turn into a superstar?
Will Evan Longoria stop banging strippers and shooting AK-47's long enough to focus on baseball?
Does the Legend of Sam Fuld have more magic?
Will the $40M 'moneyball' Rays win more games against the Red Sox and Yankees...again!If we answer YES to all of these questions, it will be another great season. It certainly won't be easy. Go Rays!

[sterlingice]

That just reminded me of how awesome Game 162 of last season was:
Joe Posnanski » Posts Baseball Night in America « (http://joeposnanski.si.com/2011/09/29/baseball-night-in-america/)

SI

[Dutch]

That just reminded me of how awesome Game 162 of last season was:
Joe Posnanski » Posts Baseball Night in America « (http://joeposnanski.si.com/2011/09/29/baseball-night-in-america/)

SI

*goosebumps*

[Easy Mac]

I seriously doubt it will ever apply to most products like this, but there has been legislation introduced/passed in a number of states over the past several years that places restrictions on company's auto-renewal shenanigans on "service contracts." It varies by state, but some of these laws are applicable to things like phone service and gym memberships.

Just as a follow up, every year I get charged the going rate for ESPN insider, even though it is free with an ESPN magazine subscription, which I'm pretty sure I still have for the next 3-4 years that I got for a ridiculously low price. Every year, I have to call ESPN and tell them to give me my money back because they auto-renew insider at full price instead of free. I've made this call 6-7 years in a row, and they fail to fix it.

[spleen1015]

Just as a follow up, every year I get charged the going rate for ESPN insider, even though it is free with an ESPN magazine subscription, which I'm pretty sure I still have for the next 3-4 years that I got for a ridiculously low price. Every year, I have to call ESPN and tell them to give me my money back because they auto-renew insider at full price instead of free. I've made this call 6-7 years in a row, and they fail to fix it.

I know I get Insider for free with the rag, but I refuse to give them credit card info since it is free.

[cartman]

Did Game 6 of the World Series really end that way?
***checks the box score again***
Damn it.

I guess hope does spring eternal. I have my tickets for the Rangers opening weekend.

[Ksyrup]

Just as a follow up, every year I get charged the going rate for ESPN insider, even though it is free with an ESPN magazine subscription, which I'm pretty sure I still have for the next 3-4 years that I got for a ridiculously low price. Every year, I have to call ESPN and tell them to give me my money back because they auto-renew insider at full price instead of free. I've made this call 6-7 years in a row, and they fail to fix it.

Actually, I've documented my frustration with this in one of those "free insider" threads around here. Last time, the lady basically acknowledged it's an issue and made it sound like no one really cares enough to fix the system. It sounded like it was a well-known issue among the rank-and-file answering the phones, but that that there was nothing they could do about it - it was over their heads, and the higher-ups didn't really give a crap.

[JPhillips]

This is why it's hard to be a Reds fan.

The moral in all of this is that Brett Tomko is the winningest pitcher drafted & signed by the #Reds in the last 28 years.

Brett fucking Tomko

[cougarfreak]

Well, I'm not sure if I'm lucky or what but I called Directv asking if they could lower the price of Extra Innings package down to something closer to MLBTV as I was considering the versatility of that over being locked to just DirectTV.

They offered 10 bucks off my bill for 6 months which put it in the ballpark. I hemmed and hawed a bit more and then the whopper of 20 bucks off my bill for 12 months. Essentially, they're paying me 30 bucks to get the baseball package this year. I'm still in disbelief. Of course, my first reaction was stupidly -- now I can have both.

I called and cancelled my auto renewal for the Extra Innings Package as well. They didn't offer me anything, didn't really matter. I'll save the $100 and get the package on my ps3, computer, roku, and phone.

[sterlingice]

This is why it's hard to be a Reds fan.



Brett fucking Tomko

Any idea how many wins? I'd be curious since, say, Kevin Appier, who the most wins are for a Royals drafted starting pitcher. I'm almost certain the list might start with Greinke's 60 wins for the Royals (16 more for Milwaukee for a career total of 76).

Jeff Suppan is at 39 but not originally a Royal
Jose Rosado apparently is 37...
Luke Hochevar is at 30...

And that's the best I can find otherwise since the mid 90s. I mean of anyone anywhere. It's bleak

SI

[Ksyrup]

28 years seems incredibly arbirtrary. Who is the Reds pitcher that they are excluding that falls just outside the 28 years?

[Ksyrup]

Actually, I'm going to guess it's Tom Browning.

[sterlingice]

Jose Rijo?

SI

[stevew]

Actually, I'm going to guess it's Tom Browning.

Tom Browning

http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_mlb_experts__23/ept_sports_mlb_experts-199589012-1238520581.jpg?ymFc.BBDjXp_FVWg

[stevew]

yeah, and Browning would be the correct answer.

[stevew]

This is why it's hard to be a Reds fan.



Brett fucking Tomko

Yeah, but with a decent season(10 wins), Leake would take over the lead here.

[Ksyrup]

Jose Rijo?

SI

Originally a Yankee. The Yankees really were a frickin mess in the 80s. I miss those days. Heck, I didn't even hate them then, because there was no reason to.

[JonInMiddleGA]

28 years seems incredibly arbirtrary. Who is the Reds pitcher that they are excluding that falls just outside the 28 years?

Would you believe Bobby Witt (142-157) who won more games than Tom Browning (123-90), both in the 1982 draft. Both also have more wins than Tomko (100-103).

BUT ... if baseball-reference.com is correct, then Paul Byrd (109-96) was drafted by the Reds in '88 and would qualify as well (assuming the wins are career rather than Reds-only)

[JPhillips]

28 years seems incredibly arbirtrary. Who is the Reds pitcher that they are excluding that falls just outside the 28 years?

It is arbitrary, but it was tweeted because Tomko just signed a minor league deal to return to the Reds.

[Ksyrup]

Huh. They both threw a perfect game, too, while young.

[Ksyrup]

It is arbitrary, but it was tweeted because Tomko just signed a minor league deal to return to the Reds.

I understand why it was tweeted, but it's an arbitrary number designed to make it look worse than it is. 25 years would have made more sense. The extra 3 years was added to get the maximum impact, despite at least 2 guys who were drafted 28 years and a day later who easily eclipse that number. It just kinda stood out as if it was a stat crafted for a purpose.

[JPhillips]

Twenty five years is depressing enough.

[spleen1015]

Originally a Yankee. The Yankees really were a frickin mess in the 80s. I miss those days. Heck, I didn't even hate them then, because there was no reason to.

Those were the days.

[Easy Mac]

According to Baseball Reference, Charlie Liebrandt is the winning all time drafted/signed Cincinatti Red, at least going back to their records from 1965. He won 140 games and was drafted/signed in 1978.

[Easy Mac]

Also, arguably their most successful drafted/signed pitcher since '65 was Trevor Hoffman.

[stevew]

I'll make a brash prediction....this is finally the year the Pirates will win at least 82 games.

(smash cut to Mid July)

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/WWaLxFIVX1s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[DanGarion]

Of all the active players in baseball right now

Zack Greinke 76-73

[DanGarion]

Cone was drafted in 1981 and had 194 wins, so that is the most since 1980 for the Royals of any draft pick.

[spleen1015]

Mike Mussina, drafted in 1990 by the O's has 270 wins. He is the reason why I hate the Yankees.

[CraigSca]

Mike Mussina, drafted in 1990 by the O's has 270 wins. He is the reason why I hate the Yankees.

Eww. You didn't hate the Yankees BEFORE they signed Mussina?!

[Ksyrup]

Also, arguably their most successful drafted/signed pitcher since '65 was Trevor Hoffman.

Drafted as a SS right?

[sterlingice]

Cone was drafted in 1981 and had 194 wins, so that is the most since 1980 for the Royals of any draft pick.

But if you think about the 80s for the Royals, it's a good time for pitchers. Saberhagen, Cone, Gubicza, and Danny Jackson (got to 100 a couple of teams later) all are drafted in the early 80s by Kansas City and win 100+ games at the MLB level. After Appier is drafted in 1987, I bet the next highest will be the aforementioned Zack Greinke and I don't know if there are any above 50(!). So, in 20+ years, 1 pitcher who has won 50 games at the MLB level. That's just horrid.

How bad it is when I'm slogging through the Jeremy Affeldts, Jimmy Gobbles, and Chris Georges of the world to get the 2nd(!) best pitcher of the last 2 decades. I mean, seriously- those guys are all probably in the top 10. That's how sad this gets. I bet the Phillies have 10 better SPs in the last 3 years. For the record, the answer for #2 is probably the much-too-short career of Jose Rosado.

How are people doing the search on B-R to get most wins from a franchise drafted SP, btw?

SI

[spleen1015]

Eww. You didn't hate the Yankees BEFORE they signed Mussina?!

Kind of, but taking the O's only good player at the time was the end of the line for me. I love the fact that they never won a WS while he was there.

[Easy Mac]

But if you think about the 80s for the Royals, it's a good time for pitchers. Saberhagen, Cone, Gubicza, and Danny Jackson (got to 100 a couple of teams later) all are drafted in the early 80s by Kansas City and win 100+ games at the MLB level. After Appier is drafted in 1987, I bet the next highest will be the aforementioned Zack Greinke and I don't know if there are any above 50(!). So, in 20+ years, 1 pitcher who has won 50 games at the MLB level. That's just horrid.

How bad it is when I'm slogging through the Jeremy Affeldts, Jimmy Gobbles, and Chris Georges of the world to get the 2nd(!) best pitcher of the last 2 decades. I mean, seriously- those guys are all probably in the top 10. That's how sad this gets. I bet the Phillies have 10 better SPs in the last 3 years. For the record, the answer for #2 is probably the much-too-short career of Jose Rosado.

How are people doing the search on B-R to get most wins from a franchise drafted SP, btw?

SI

I start here and go year to year.
1982 Atlanta Braves Picks in the MLB June Amateur Draft - Baseball-Reference.com (http://www.baseball-reference.com/draft/?query_type=franch_year&team_ID=ATL&year_ID=1982&draft_type=junreg&)

[DanGarion]

Here is the list of all Royals since 1980 with 20 or more wins in case anyone cares.


<iframe width='550' height='500' frameborder='0' src='https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Av8FbkRqCjBbdG0weDZCamhJS2FtTmV6R3RiQS1ycFE&single=true&gid=0&output=html&widget=true'></iframe>

Wish there was an easier way to do this instead of having to go through each year and collecting the data.

[DanGarion]

I've made a request on B-R for selecting a range of dates on the draft page, since I can't figure out a way to do this type of search easily.

[sterlingice]

That's just a sad list, DanGarion. Again, the top 5 are all in the 1980s. After that, I had forgotten Lieber was a Royals draftee and I think so did everyone else. Then, yeah, it's Zack.

Royals "Top" 10
Lieber
Greinke
Rusch
Bankhead
Durbin
Rosado
Affeldt
Hochevar
Simontacchi (who?)
Rupe

I dare anyone to have a worse 3-10 of any franchise in the last 20 years. I think that just goes to show how awful the drafting of pitching has been.

SI

[DanGarion]

That's just a sad list, DanGarion. Again, the top 5 are all in the 1980s. After that, I had forgotten Lieber was a Royals draftee and I think so did everyone else. Then, yeah, it's Zack.

The Rest of your Royals "Top" 10:
Rusch
Bankhead
Durbin
Rosado
Affeldt
Hochevar
Simontacchi (who?)
Rupe

SI

I'm just posting the list because someone else was wondering. The Royals aren't my team.

[sterlingice]

No, I wasn't saying it was your team- I was glad you ran the numbers.

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

We already talking about the Royals? Good times. Good times.

[DanGarion]

Here is the Dodgers. I started in 1979 because Hershiser was one of my favorites of all time.

<iframe width='580' height='550' frameborder='0' src='https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Av8FbkRqCjBbdG0weDZCamhJS2FtTmV6R3RiQS1ycFE&single=true&gid=1&output=html&widget=true'></iframe>

I knew the Dodgers drafted Hochevar (didn't know it was twice though). David Price was a new one to me, I'm assuming he was drafted later by the Rays. Oh and it looks like they drafted Tomko a year before the Reds drafted him in 85. Randy Wolf was drafted by the Phillies in 1997.

Fortunately the Dodgers had some success in the 80s-90s in the Dominican. Well and Mexico (79 is the year they purchased Valenzuela's contract.

[DanGarion]

While not drafted, I would put Fernando on this list.

Yep I know, and both of the Martinez brothers and even Astacio. But there isn't an easy way to track down undrafted free agents and their original team on BR that I am aware of...

[Vince, Pt. II]

MLB Power Rankings: Phillies, White Sox Lead The Way - Baseball Nation (http://mlb.sbnation.com/2012/2/20/2807071/mlb-power-rankings-offseason-preseason)

This article entertained me. Grant writes for the San Francisco Giants blog on SBNation, McCovey Chronicles, and he's pretty hilarious.

[korme]

Tom Browning

http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_mlb_experts__23/ept_sports_mlb_experts-199589012-1238520581.jpg?ymFc.BBDjXp_FVWg

Hey! Don't disgrace Mr. Perfect like that!

[Ksyrup]

MLB Power Rankings: Phillies, White Sox Lead The Way - Baseball Nation (http://mlb.sbnation.com/2012/2/20/2807071/mlb-power-rankings-offseason-preseason)

This article entertained me. Grant writes for the San Francisco Giants blog on SBNation, McCovey Chronicles, and he's pretty hilarious.

I've really lost a lot of respect for Rob Neyer since the move to SBN. I just don't like the way they cover baseball, at all. They take interesting topics and do a good job with them most of the time, but then they have to wrap them in a Dane Cookish infotainment writing style that completely turns me off. Even when I find that something is funny, I still don't really like how it was presented. I really wish he'd go back to being serious and stop thinking he's cool by hanging around a bunch of bloggers half his age. Just give me the analysis. You can be naturally entertaining without the forced shtick.

Just my $.02.

[sterlingice]

I think there's this perception that you have to be "that guy" if you're in sports talk and that's been growing for years. A lot of Jim Rome's more popular segments were the stupid non-sports inside jokes. Sports Guy just drops in stupid pop culture references in every article.

But, you're right- Neyer didn't use to do that and it was one of his strong points. Now it's like "I can do it, so I lazily /will/ do it".

SI

[Ksyrup]

Given that baseball isn't all that popular with young people - or at least, probably not as popular as it is with older people - I wonder how well that style serves them. I guess they're doing fine. I just know I really wish things were the way they were back when he was doing SweetSpot - I rarely if ever read the current SweetSpot and barely spend any time over at SBN, so I'm at a net loss for baseball coverage compared to 2 years ago.

[stevew]

Hey! Don't disgrace Mr. Perfect like that!

Maybe he shouldn't get 99 thousand dollars behind on child support if he doesn't want an epic mug shot. He disgraced himself.

[cougarfreak]

Hey! Don't disgrace Mr. Perfect like that!

Funny story about Browning. When he was caught with his DUI and a marijuana bud in his car, part of his punishment was to come to the school I teach at and give a talk to kids. So we have about 1400 kids crammed into the gym for his talk, and he's nervous as hell. He gives his speech, and at the end he's like, "I'm not here to tell you not to drink and drive......uhhhh shit, yes I am, so my advice is not to do it". He was quite embarassed.

[Ksyrup]

Is Roy Oswalt about to retire? Agent says an announcement is coming, and there's no rumor about him signing with anyone. I believe where it's been is a staredown with either Texas or STL, and those are the only 2 teams he'll consider playing for since they are relatively close to home.

[lungs]

I just wish this Ryan Braun mess would be over with. Part of me wonders (hopes is probably the better word) if MLB isn't announcing anything because they don't annnounce the results of successful appeals.

[Ksyrup]

But then he'd show up for work if he won the appeal, right? Either way an announcement has to happen - he's just not going to appear out of thin air with a 'no comment.'

[Chief Rum]

Funny story about Browning. When he was caught with his DUI and a marijuana bud in his car, part of his punishment was to come to the school I teach at and give a talk to kids. So we have about 1400 kids crammed into the gym for his talk, and he's nervous as hell. He gives his speech, and at the end he's like, "I'm not here to tell you not to drink and drive......uhhhh shit, yes I am, so my advice is not to do it". He was quite embarassed.

Did he really say "shit" to 1400 kids? lol

[lungs]

But then he'd show up for work if he won the appeal, right? Either way an announcement has to happen - he's just not going to appear out of thin air with a 'no comment.'

He's showing up for work either way in the next few days, and that's when I believe it will be resolved.

[Vince, Pt. II]

I've really lost a lot of respect for Rob Neyer since the move to SBN. I just don't like the way they cover baseball, at all. They take interesting topics and do a good job with them most of the time, but then they have to wrap them in a Dane Cookish infotainment writing style that completely turns me off. Even when I find that something is funny, I still don't really like how it was presented. I really wish he'd go back to being serious and stop thinking he's cool by hanging around a bunch of bloggers half his age. Just give me the analysis. You can be naturally entertaining without the forced shtick.

Just my $.02.

I don't know of many people who haven't gone that way. I really enjoy Andrew Baggarly, but he's a Giants beat writer, so probably not your cup of tea. Schtick seems to be all the rage these days, so it's tough to find good solid reporting.

[Ksyrup]

So Oswalt's pulling a Clemens.

[spleen1015]

So Oswalt's pulling a Clemens.

He's taking roids then lying about it?

[Ksyrup]

<S>@</S>trenni (https://twitter.com/#!/trenni): According to <S>@</S>karlravechespn (https://twitter.com/#!/karlravechespn) the Braun decision is imminent and will come down today. We will keep you posted...

[Ksyrup]

He's taking roids then lying about it?

Yeah, I kinda left that wide open, huh? :D

[Logan]

Ravech just tweeted no suspension.

[lungs]

FUCK YEAH

[DanGarion]

Ryan Braun wins appeal of positive drug test - JSOnline (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/140213003.html)

[stevew]

I guess the "I swear i didn't do it" defense is now like 1 for umpteen hundred.

[lungs]

Go ahead and give back that MVP, Ryan.

[DanGarion]

Go ahead and give back that MVP, Ryan.

He's been cleared, why should he give it back? :p

[lungs]

He's been cleared, why should he give it back? :p

Because Buster Olney told him to whether he's innocent or not.

[Chief Rum]

I don't really have any opinion on Braun in general, and if he is by the process in place, not guilty of roiding, then great.

That said, it appears that he won the case on a technicality, not on the virtue (or lack thereof) of the test result, and it was by split decision (2-1 arbitrator vote). So this isn't exactly the cleanest win in the world (pun intended :p ).

[rowech]

Has anyone else heard the rumor that this is all because Braun has Herpes?

[lungs]

I don't really have any opinion on Braun in general, and if he is by the process in place, not guilty of roiding, then great.

That said, it appears that he won the case on a technicality, not on the virtue (or lack thereof) of the test result, and it was by split decision (2-1 arbitrator vote). So this isn't exactly the cleanest win in the world (pun intended :p ).

All cases come down to the independent guy. Union always votes against suspension, MLB always votes for. This is the first time the third person has found for the player so there has to be something there.

Technicality or not, he'll be in leftfield on opening day and that's what I'm all about.

[lungs]

Has anyone else heard the rumor that this is all because Braun has Herpes?

Yeah, TMZ bullshit. I just heard on MLB Network that the test wasn't sent in a timely manner.

[spleen1015]

Has anyone else heard the rumor that this is all because Braun has Herpes?

I heard it on the radio today or yesterday.

[rowech]

Yeah, TMZ bullshit. I just heard on MLB Network that the test wasn't sent in a timely manner.

Whole system is starting to sound bad. Manny gets knocked to 50, now this. How much stock is there in this system when the stars get off easier or totally?

[lungs]

Whole system is starting to sound bad. Manny gets knocked to 50, now this. How much stock is there in this system when the stars get off easier or totally?

The beauty of the thing is that we wouldn't even know about this if somebody with MLB didn't see fit to leak this story to ESPN before the appeals process had even taken place.

Now MLB is concerned about the confidence in their testing program? Don't leak the fucking results before the anonymous appeals process has played out then. There is a reason the process was set up as such in the CBA, and its pretty clear MLB fucked this whole thing up.

[SackAttack]

Yeah, TMZ bullshit. I just heard on MLB Network that the test wasn't sent in a timely manner.

Which, if that's why he won the appeal, that's not exoneration. That's more like the Mets trading K-Rod because his agents didn't file the no-trade paperwork. It doesn't mean the clause wasn't negotiated (or that Braun didn't 'roid). It means that somebody fell asleep on the job.

Good for the Brewers in that they aren't losing his bat for two months, but that's the only 'good' I see coming out of this scenario if that is, in fact, why he won.

[lungs]

Braun's not exonerated, no doubt. Sounding like he won his appeal because they didn't send it in the allotted time. It's a complete technicality. The public is still free to burn him in effigy.

[Ryan S]

All cases come down to the independent guy. Union always votes against suspension, MLB always votes for. This is the first time the third person has found for the player so there has to be something there.

It makes you wonder why they have MLB and Union representation on the panel. Why not have three independent panelists with MLB and Union observers if they insist on being part of the process?

[lungs]

Another interesting theory is that Braun actually leaked this. If so, I take back what I said.

[bhlloy]

What a whitewash. Get an expensive lawyer and get off on a technicality. Braun might have been one of my favorite players in the game before this, and probably would still be if he had the balls to say I screwed up (even unintentionally) and serve the suspension.

[bhlloy]

DOLA - as for Braun leaking the results that sounds conveniently likely but who knows. He beat the system. Yay him

[Ryan S]

What a whitewash. Get an expensive lawyer and get off on a technicality. Braun might have been one of my favorite players in the game before this, and probably would still be if he had the balls to say I screwed up (even unintentionally) and serve the suspension.

Not sure that is fair on Braun. If the correct testing procedure was not followed you can't suspend someone.

If a test is not handled properly, then shows record breaking figures (apparently twice as high as ever seen before (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/ryan-braun-national-league-mvp-wins-appeal-50-game-mlb-ban-testing-positive-performance-enhancing-drugs-article-1.1027705)), it strikes me that there has been foul play somewhere along the line.

[lungs]

I think I'm going to start accusing people of being anti-Semitic if they continue to doubt Braun. Jew lawyers helped a Jew beat the system. Yeah I said it. (very tongue in cheek for those serious ass holes out there that think I'm serious, Braun doesn't practice Judaism)

[Crapshoot]

The beauty of the thing is that we wouldn't even know about this if somebody with MLB didn't see fit to leak this story to ESPN before the appeals process had even taken place.

Now MLB is concerned about the confidence in their testing program? Don't leak the fucking results before the anonymous appeals process has played out then. There is a reason the process was set up as such in the CBA, and its pretty clear MLB fucked this whole thing up.

"". MLB has no respect at all for the confidentiality agreements they have reached with their union; when they're found out for idiots, I'm all for it being publicized.

[Crapshoot]

What a whitewash. Get an expensive lawyer and get off on a technicality. Braun might have been one of my favorite players in the game before this, and probably would still be if he had the balls to say I screwed up (even unintentionally) and serve the suspension.

To quote Craig Calcaterra:

In almost all cases, the people who say that someone “got off on a technicality” or took advantage of a “loophole” really mean “I think the SOB was guilty and because of that I don’t care if the proper safeguards and protocols were followed!”

[molson]

To quote Craig Calcaterra:

In almost all cases, the people who say that someone “got off on a technicality” or took advantage of a “loophole” really mean “I think the SOB was guilty and because of that I don’t care if the proper safeguards and protocols were followed!”

I don't think it's unreasonable to look at the relationship between the evidence of guilt and the loophole or technicality. Even in a criminal case, you don't necessarily get off if the police officer or a judge makes a mistake, if the mistake is harmless.

What's the harm that comes from shipping a sample 24 hours late? Is it literally only that someone may have broken into the lab over those 24 hours and spiked the sample? Without more, I think we can look at that as something of a longshot and still see this as much more likely a case of Braun simply cheating.

Edit: The standard of proof would matter too, whatever they have in the contract for appeals. Is it preponderance of evidence? Substantial evidence? Beyond a reasonable doubt? Or, they could certainly just spell out, "any deviations from this testing protocol must result in the player winning".

[Chief Rum]

I don't think it's unreasonable to look at the relationship between the evidence of guilt and the loophole or technicality. Even in a criminal case, you don't necessarily get off if the police officer or a judge makes a mistake, if the mistake is harmless.

What's the harm that comes from shipping a sample 24 hours late? Is it literally only that someone may have broken into the lab over those 24 hours and spiked the sample? Without more, I think we can look at that as something of a longshot and still see this as much more likely a case of Braun simply cheating.

I know nothing about blood or drug tests, but if I had to guess, I am thinking that time frame is in place because the results get more hokey over time, the longer you wait. The margin for potential error grows too large after a time and the accuracy of the test result is thus in question.

[Scoobz0202]

Yea, I am interested if something more leaks, because correct me if I am wrong but is that really the reason he was let off? If so, I agree, he should have had his suspension reversed because protocol was broken.

But, that does not mean I am saying, "Yay, go Braun!" either. Until I read from somebody more educated then me that shows that a substance sitting like that can have the concentration increase somehow, or a little something more than "It could have been spiked," my opinion will be heavily laden with doubt. So, while I agree with the decision if the protocol was broken, color me skeptical about Braun.

I'll remain indifferent for the most part until Braun, or somebody, produces something. If there is no explanation, I'll respect his privacy, but that doesn't mean I won't think he is a possible cheater.

[lungs]

I'll be interested to see what Will Carroll's article says. He seems to be one of the few people covering this that has any actual, you know, medical knowledge.

This is the key tweet in my eyes:
Will Carroll ‏ @injuryexpert
The Braun decision was based on HOW the sample was corrupted. Panel was shown exactly what happened, why result was invalid.

[QuikSand]

If Oswalt manages to pull off this "I'll sign once things take shape, and someone really needs me" stunt, I think it might be an intriguing tipping point in major sports, which we have tiptoed around for a while now.

[sterlingice]

Well, wouldn't the credit go to Clemens for his shenanigans with that? Or Brett Favre- tho waiting through preseason is an art in the NFL.

SI

[Ksyrup]

Yeah, that's hardly new. Pedro did it a few years ago, too.

As far as Braun, I really don't give a shit one way or the other. Just play some damn ball so we can forget about all the irrelevant crap.

[RedKingGold]

If Oswalt manages to pull off this "I'll sign once things take shape, and someone really needs me" stunt, I think it might be an intriguing tipping point in major sports, which we have tiptoed around for a while now.

Roger Clemens says hello.

[Ksyrup]

Andy Pettitte basically did the same thing when he retired, left the door open to join the Yankees mid-season.

[spleen1015]

Some interesting stuff on the DP Show just now.

He won his appeal because the agreement between MLB and the MLBPA says samples get sent to the lab within 24 hours. Braun's wasn't.

He tested positive for synthetic testosterone. His sample was first tested to make sure it was a good sample. It didn't breakdown while it spent the weekend in the refrigerator.

It was mentioned that he has taken a lie detector. Does anyone know what the results of that were?

So, essentially he is guilty, but MLB's rules can't be enforced because of the CBA.

[Ksyrup]

:D

Not Bud Selig ‏ <S>@</S>fakebudselig
Folks, I'm torn on the Braun case. Nothing wrong with keeping urine in a fridge. That's why it's called Miller Park.

[MrBug708]

Rick Caruso pulls out of the Dodger sale because McCourt won't sell the parking lots in the sale for the Dodgers

Sad

[QuikSand]

Yes, I'm aware of what we have seen before with close to washed-up guys like Clemens, Pettitte, and Charles Haley. It's not completely new.

But for a guy who still has several theoretical years left in him, it doesn't seem like a stretch to me that this could be a pretty viable move to consider. And I wonder what it might do to the concepts of free agency if it really happened. What if a guy like Vincent Jackson just decided he wasn't thrilled with his guaranteed money offers, so he'll just wait and see what team starts out fairly hot and decides it wants to make a move to become a serious contender -- so he signs in week 5 with them for a fat one year deal, or something?

Maybe I'm seeing more of a difference between Oswalt and the previous cases -- but it seems to me this might be a turning point for more than one sport. Wouldn't a strategy like this have made a ton of sense for a guy like Shaq during the last 4-5 years of his career? (Yes, I know in the NBA you get to take half the regular season off anyway) But what about a team like the Patriots/Packers basically working out a deal with a moderate impact player, agreeing that they will make the playoffs anyway, so stay fresh and we'll cut your check when we're three games away from the playoffs. Would that be a good development?

[Ksyrup]

Sixteen-year-old blogger scoops everyone on the Ryan Braun PED story | February (http://bloguin.com/theoutsidecorner/2012-articles/february/sixteen-year-old-blogger-scoops-everyone-on-the-ryan-braun-ped-story.html)

[Suburban Rhythm]

93.7 The Fan Hosts Told Not To Cover Frank Coonelly DUI Story - SB Nation Pittsburgh (http://pittsburgh.sbnation.com/pittsburgh-pirates/2012/2/23/2820568/93-7-the-fan-frank-coonelly-dui-pirates)

The Pittsburgh sports-talk station that reached an agreement in September to broadcast the Pirates’ games has now told its hosts they may not discuss the situation, or to field calls on the air from listeners interested in talking about it. The topic apparently may only be discussed on the station in news updates. The decision by station management at 93.7 KDKA-FM, The Fan—a CBS Radio-owned property—is currently being tossed around Yinzer circles on Twitter, and a source has just confirmed it to me directly.

[Ksyrup]

I don't see what Oswalt's doing as anything other than a very rich athlete who has different priorities at this point in his life. I don't see this as some game-changing decision that could alter the concept of FA forever. I think practically speaking, Shaq did this the last few years of his career - didn't he go from contender to contender (I can think of Miami, Boston, Phoenix, and Cleveland), playing 40-60 games a year, skipping practices, pacing himself for the playoffs, AND drawing a big salary? What's different?

I don't know... Oswalt seems to be doing exactly what Pedro Martinez did with the Phillies a couple of years ago. Sure, he probably has more career left than Pedro or Clemens did, but (a) he's been injured quite a lot the last few years, and (b) he has always come off as the type of guy who would be more likely to retire 2 years earlier than you'd expect rather than stick around a couple of years past his prime.

[Easy Mac]

Someone should start the Ryan Braun death clock

2012 Spring Training -- Ryan Braun of Milwaukee Brewers says test system failed - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/mlb/spring2012/story/_/id/7611600/2012-spring-training-ryan-braun-milwaukee-brewers-says-test-system-failed)

"If I had done this intentionally or unintentionally, I'd be the first one to step up and say I did it," Braun said. "I would bet my life this substance never entered my body."

[stevew]

Regardless of this outcome, if I make it to a Pirates/Brewers game this year you better god damn believe I'm going to be chanting "Steroids" loud as fuck at Braun. All class here.

[bhlloy]

So it just so happens that the first ever case where procedure wasn't followed exactly and results were contaminated was the reigning MVP and a guy who of guilty would be a massive black eye for MLB?

I mean I guess it's possible that every single minor leaguer and major leaguer who didn't make the headlines tried to appeal and everything was legitimately done, but I think it's more likely Braun has access to infinite resources, played this perfectly and/or MLB despite their protestations really wasn't that interested in making this stand up. Like I said before, good for him but doesn't mean it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside

[lungs]

Regardless of this outcome, if I make it to a Pirates/Brewers game this year you better god damn believe I'm going to be chanting "Steroids" loud as fuck at Braun. All class here.

Go for it, Braun will simply continue to murder Pirate pitching and the Brewers will continue to murder the Pirates in general :)

[JediKooter]

What would Barry Bonds do?

[bhlloy]

There is an article on Y! Sports by Passan that sums the whole thing up for me pretty well. Can't link to it on my phone but I'm in agreement with it pretty much 100%

[Butter]

This one?

Braun ruling deals blow to Selig's testing program - MLB - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-passan_ryan_braun_appeal_drug_program_selig_022312)

[bhlloy]

Yup

[stevew]

The Oswalt thing is somewhat different because I think he was looking at taking a yearly rate at which he was certainly not pleased. I'd equate this next contract to one of the NFL one year "make good" deals. At this point, Oswalt can't probably get 6 million for one complete season. It's a pretty good wager to be financially secure enough to say fuck that and hold out for at least 2 million a month.

From a Freudian aspect, his arm only has X throws left in it probably. So it's wise to maximize them. I think the NFL type comparison would be more apt if it involved a running back. None of this years backs are that great of an example, but maybe Michael Bush hates all the deals he sees and instead waits for the first major RB injury and plays 10 games there for 5 million bucks?

[molson]

This one?

Braun ruling deals blow to Selig's testing program - MLB - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-passan_ryan_braun_appeal_drug_program_selig_022312)

"“This,” one baseball official said, “is like a criminal getting off because he wasn’t read his Miranda rights.”"

No, it's not even like that. A defendant who makes admissions to police very well might not have if he was reminded that he didn't have to say anything. It's a real enough risk that the courts will exclude any custodial admission made when there's no miranda warning.

Here, there's zero connection between the required procedure and evidence of guilt. Keeping a sample in a refrigerator for less than two days doesn't impact the testing accuracy (from what I've read, correct me if I'm wrong).

[mckerney]

Someone should start the Ryan Braun death clock

2012 Spring Training -- Ryan Braun of Milwaukee Brewers says test system failed - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/mlb/spring2012/story/_/id/7611600/2012-spring-training-ryan-braun-milwaukee-brewers-says-test-system-failed)

Come on, everyone knows that if you don't get a urine sample to FedEx right away then it will develop synthetic testosterone.

[Ryan S]

So it just so happens that the first ever case where procedure wasn't followed exactly and results were contaminated was the reigning MVP and a guy who of guilty would be a massive black eye for MLB?

I mean I guess it's possible that every single minor leaguer and major leaguer who didn't make the headlines tried to appeal and everything was legitimately done, but I think it's more likely Braun has access to infinite resources, played this perfectly and/or MLB despite their protestations really wasn't that interested in making this stand up. Like I said before, good for him but doesn't mean it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside

This is only the first case we know about where the procedure has not been followed and the appeal has been successful. For all we know this could have happened before, but the news did not leak. If this had been handled the way it should have been handled, we would not have known anything about this case.

I am not sure that Braun would have access to better lawyers than MLB. Both sides could afford pretty expensive lawyers :)

The problem with this case is that if a result so extreme comes from a sample that has been mishandled there is going to be reasonable doubt about the integrity of the sample.

MLB can fix this in the future by following the correct procedures for all future tests.

[Butter]

The point is this wasn't "mishandled". It was mishandled according to the letter of the agreement between MLB and MLBPA. But it seems pretty clear that this happens all the time and the samples are not subject to additional contamination due to the longer waiting period.

[Ksyrup]

Still a breach of protocol that has to invalidate the suspension. What it doesn't do is invalidate the test in most peoples' eyes, which is where I think some people are taking issue with Braun's PC. He's acting like they uncovered evidence that someone intentionally tampered with the sample. At best, only the people who handled it know that for sure. Even Braun can't say definitively whether he accidentally took something that might have caused the positive.

Damn I wish games would start tomorrow.

[stevew]

93.7 The Fan Hosts Told Not To Cover Frank Coonelly DUI Story - SB Nation Pittsburgh (http://pittsburgh.sbnation.com/pittsburgh-pirates/2012/2/23/2820568/93-7-the-fan-frank-coonelly-dui-pirates)

I was shocked at how long they kept that out of the papers. More than 2 months after the arrest.

[Ryan S]

The point is this wasn't "mishandled". It was mishandled according to the letter of the agreement between MLB and MLBPA. But it seems pretty clear that this happens all the time and the samples are not subject to additional contamination due to the longer waiting period.

That is probably true, but if the agreement is that the sample is sent ASAP, this needs to be done in ALL cases, otherwise administering the test is pointless as it will fail on appeal. MLB has no excuses for not getting this right.

As I mentioned in my previous post, we have no idea how many times this has happened before, so it could be that MLB has botched a number of tests.

It would be interesting to find out exactly why the arbitrator made this decision rather than having to speculate based on the rumor mill.

[Ksyrup]

he has to issue a written decision within 30 days.

[SackAttack]

From what I was reading, the security seals weren't tampered with, and the sample did not suffer degradation during the extra time involved.

The defense didn't even try to argue the validity of the sample, or to argue how the testosterone levels were so insanely high. They went straight for the 'LOL he didn't mail it within the collectively bargained time period if it doesn't ship you must acquit' defense.

And now that it's been thrown out for that reason, Braun (and some of his friends on the Packers including Rodgers and Matthews) are trying to spin that as "not guilty, bitches, he didn't do it."

[DanGarion]

I love this.


Brandon McCarthy ‏ @BMcCarthy32
"Hey hun, what's this next to the olives?" "That's a bottle of Ryan Braun's piss." "Oh."

[rowech]

From what I was reading, the security seals weren't tampered with, and the sample did not suffer degradation during the extra time involved.

The defense didn't even try to argue the validity of the sample, or to argue how the testosterone levels were so insanely high. They went straight for the 'LOL he didn't mail it within the collectively bargained time period if it doesn't ship you must acquit' defense.

And now that it's been thrown out for that reason, Braun (and some of his friends on the Packers including Rodgers and Matthews) are trying to spin that as "not guilty, bitches, he didn't do it."

Guilty as crap. Reporters will eventually uncover a lot more to this story. I really believe, Braun threatened a big lawsuit because of the leaking of test results to ESPN, baseball compromised knowing they were screwed, came up with this absurd story, pieced it together and presented it as we see it for public consumption.

He will always be guilty in my mind and I hope people uncover the truth so this posturing will look worse over time.

[molson]

Still a breach of protocol that has to invalidate the suspension.

Why is that a given? I guess it could depend on the language of the agreement, but perfect protocol can be pretty elusive and is probably impossible. This isn't a material breach. But I guess that was the decision of the arbiter, that you just "can't suspend" in this circumstance, but that at least to me isn't a self-evident kind of point.

[molson]

I do wonder if the guy missing the fedex pickup deadline is the " highly unusual circumstances" that Braun said would exonerate him at the time. I doubt it, I imagine the attorneys dug up that little nugget later. If he really wants to clear his name, this would be a good time to explain what kind of circumstances he was talking about.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Guilty as crap. Reporters will eventually uncover a lot more to this story. ... He will always be guilty in my mind and I hope people uncover the truth so this posturing will look worse over time.

+1

[stevew]

I love how he's flaunting his not guilty-ness and thinking we're stupid enough to equate that with innocence.

[sterlingice]

I figured the easy way to play this was to be boring and just let it go away

SI

[lungs]

This made me chuckle:
https://p.twimg.com/AmhJQ7KCIAAsSh4.jpg

[ISiddiqui]

LOL!

[MizzouRah]

lol Lungs!

[lungs]

Honestly I can't understand how Illinois isn't blue :)

[MrBug708]

That image reminds me of the elector college with those percentages

[Logan]

I'm convinced those votes are never actually tabulated; just charted by an editor with a sense of humor.

[mckerney]

Every bidder for the Dodgers should withdraw right now - latimes.com (http://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgersnow/la-sp-sn-every-bidder-for-the-dodgers-20120224,0,2499482.story)

What a mess. What a complete mess. It’s orchestrated by Frank McCourt, so the shock factor is nil, but still.

You wonder how any human being can be so completely clueless, but then we’ve been watching this sorry excuse for an owner for way too long now.

His latest fantasy has him selling the team but keeping the parking lots completely surrounding Dodger Stadium. Hey, now there’s a sweet deal. Thursday marked the first day the siege of the Alamo began in 1836. Getting surrounded by the enemy is never a very good idea.

So every single one of the nine remaining bidders on the team need to get out of the Dodgers pool right now.

Follow the lead of Joe Torre and Rick Caruso. No parking lots, no bid. No auction. McCourt is not only still left in bankruptcy but with another lesson to learn.

He thinks the fans boycotted the team last year? Try mudding up the sales process so badly he’s still holding the team after April 1. Outrage will be so rampant that he’ll be lucky to average 20,000.

You may not have been the biggest fan of Bob Daly when he ran the Dodgers for Fox, but he was dead on when he told The Times’ T.J. Simers last month:

"Here's the test to see if we get a smart or stupid owner. If you make a deal and allow McCourt to keep the land and parking lots, you are out of your mind.”

So listen up, you nine remaining bidders. I don’t care if you’re Magic Johnson or Stan Kroneke or gazillionaire Steve Cohen. You buy the team and are willing to let McCourt keep the parking lots, you are not wanted. You don’t deserve the Dodgers.

No one can require McCourt to include the parking lots. That’s the lousy deal Major League Baseball, in its eagerness to rid itself of McCourt, made. In another McCourt specialty, the lots are held in a separate entity and aren't in bankruptcy court.

It may be wishful thinking to entertain the idea that an MLB team in a major market, with the history of the Dodgers, with a huge TV deal coming, won’t find one idiot willing to make a deal with the devil. McCourt is already claiming he has one such bid.

If so, that person needs to withdraw the offer immediately.

Bankruptcy never should have been allowed in the first place. It was a desperate dodge to avoid MLB taking over the team, selling it and pushing McCourt out. MLB was never going to allow team creditors to go unpaid. They weren’t in real danger.

Now McCourt wants to sell the team and keep the lots to develop them? Really? What local developer would go into business with the most despised man in Los Angeles? It’s almost delusional. It is a complete mess. It is all McCourt. And L.A.’s ongoing nightmare.

[rowech]

Has there been any info about the other two guys that were tested the same time as Braun was? Did their tests come back positive?

[lungs]

If anybody is interested in some counter arguments to the anti-Braun sentinment, this blog post (http://www.chadmoriyama.com/2012/02/ryan-braun-what-you-dont-know-about-his-case-is-important/) does a good job summarizing it.

I know I'm just a Braun fan/Brewer apologist so most around here would and should take what I say with a grain of salt so I'm not really here to argue much (plus I don't care whether anybody uses PEDs, whether it's a Brewer or even a St. Louis Cardinal). But if Braun's defense team was able to replicate how the mishandling of the sample created a false positive, I'd tend to think some people ought to reconsider their position.

[rowech]

If anybody is interested in some counter arguments to the anti-Braun sentinment, this blog post (http://www.chadmoriyama.com/2012/02/ryan-braun-what-you-dont-know-about-his-case-is-important/) does a good job summarizing it.

I know I'm just a Braun fan/Brewer apologist so most around here would and should take what I say with a grain of salt so I'm not really here to argue much (plus I don't care whether anybody uses PEDs, whether it's a Brewer or even a St. Louis Cardinal). But if Braun's defense team was able to replicate how the mishandling of the sample created a false positive, I'd tend to think some people ought to reconsider their position.

Like I just posted...why did the other two players not test positive then? If they were all handled in the same way?

[lungs]

Like I just posted...why did the other two players not test positive then? If they were all handled in the same way?

Can't explain that or do we know for sure they didn't test positive? Only Braun was leaked.

[mckerney]

Braun's camp was able to cause synthetic testosterone to develop in a urine sample through mishandling?

[lungs]

dola

Another interesting thing that has come out is that Zack Greinke is doing college scouting for the Brewers. Guy is quirky as heck and I think the Brewers are doing this to accommodate his quirkiness in hopes he signs an extension. I think it's looking like a possibility as Zack wouldn't be the type to chase the money. I think a lot hinges on the Brewers doing well this year though as he's not going to sign with a team that isn't winning.

[cartman]

Tom Hicks did something similar when he was forced to sell the Rangers. He kept the parking lots surrounding the Ballpark in Arlington.

[cougarfreak]

Braun's camp was able to cause synthetic testosterone to develop in a urine sample through mishandling?

Yeah, they had him pee in it some more. :D

[rowech]

Can't explain that or do we know for sure they didn't test positive? Only Braun was leaked.

The other two should come out and say we were the other tests, we tested positive, we won our appeal like Braun but we weren't in the public eye. Problem is they aren't doing that so it makes it look worse.

Hopefully, questions will be answered over time but the whole thing is just unbelievably fishy. I just feel MLB came up with this to avoid a lawsuit from Braun for the leaked test and all these gaps in the stories are the stuff they just couldn't figure out how to deal with.

[lungs]

Braun's camp was able to cause synthetic testosterone to develop in a urine sample through mishandling?

There is no synthetic testosterone itself in the urine. The way they test it (if I understand correctly) is by finding metabolites that show the use of synthetic testosterone.

http://audio.weei.com/a/52238582/will-carroll-si-com-on-ryan-braun-s-50-game-suspension-being-overturned.htm

And what Will Carroll is saying in that audio piece is that Braun's team was able to replicate the result with Braun's urine by handling a sample in the manner the collector handled it while having another sample taken from Braun that was immediately tested and tested negative.

Anyway, I'm tending to listen to Will Carroll on this the most. Mostly because I like what he is saying (it's pro-Braun) but he at least has a plausible scientific information. And Will Carroll tends to be a little more medically inclined than most of the blowhards on TV.

[molson]

If someone other than Braun's "team" says that a clean urine test can turn into one showing synthetic testosterone use, simply from being tested in 72 hours instead of 48 hours (that's the extent of the "mishandling" that I've heard about, give or take a few hours), I'll certainly consider that. But otherwise, Braun still seems disingenuous. He's desperately trying to make this look like a total exoneration and I don't buy it based on anything he's said. And I'm still curious about what "extremely unusual circumstances" he knew back when the results first came back - did he already know day one that the result was delayed a day or two?

Edit: Another interesting thing is from Braun's own statement, he admits that the procedure is that the samples have to be delivered to "FedEx on the day they’re collected absent unusual circumstances". And then he points out were no unusual circumstances in this case. But if there had been unusual circumstance impacting only the timing of the delivery, then the sample would have followed procedure and he would have had no defense. So apparently, the synthetic testosterone use only manifests itself in a situation where the delivery is NOT delayed by unusual circumstances?

The stuff about arguing that there were 5 Fedex locations in close distance - that, is, on its face, just an argument that the technicality existed. It's a good argument that the tester was lazy and should be fired. But if there weren't those locations so close by, if it wasn't possible to get that test in right away, then he'd have no defense, and the test would have still "counted". Again, unless the test results are different based on how many fedex facilities there are.

There's so many holes in the feeble exoneration claim it'd be silly to pursue that if people weren't buying it.

[sterlingice]

The Nationals and third baseman Ryan Zimmerman have agreed to terms on a contract extension. | MLB.com: News (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120225&content_id=26857802&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb)

Good to see a homegrown player like Zim stay.

You know, I don't really know much about the Nats ownership group but are we a couple of years away from them becoming the Phillies south? They are trying to lock up as much pitching as possible (Gonzalez and Jackson to augment Strasburg and the rest of their youngsters) and have now just handed out their second $100M contract to a hitter. That's a big market and I know Angelos has his tentacles all through it but it's a city with a ton of money and they could tap some of those revenue streams

SI

[lungs]

Another case to look at for similar circumstances is that of Diane Modahl (http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/15/newsid_2559000/2559981.stm) who had similar circumstances to Braun and was ultimately cleared.

Diane Modahl was cleared of drug taking a year later after an independent appeals panel accepted evidence bacterial activity could have increased testosterone levels while the sample was not refrigerated.

[lungs]

Dola

MLB was not responsible for the leak, nor was the player's union. Somebody involved with Braun indeed leaked it, but not because Braun wanted it leaked.

[Ryan S]

The other two should come out and say we were the other tests, we tested positive, we won our appeal like Braun but we weren't in the public eye. Problem is they aren't doing that so it makes it look worse.

Why would any player want to do this? You would go from being anonymous to having steroid suspicions attached to you for the rest of your career.

If it were me, I would not say a word.

[rowech]

Why would any player want to do this? You would go from being anonymous to having steroid suspicions attached to you for the rest of your career.

If it were me, I would not say a word.

Why? If all three tested positive, people would be willing to accept Braun's story a lot more I think. The fact that all three samples were handled in the same way and all three tested positive makes it much more likely in my opinion.

Them not coming out and saying anything about it makes me believe their samples were handled in the same way but somehow came back negative. Hence their silence to protect Braun.

[Ryan S]

Why? If all three tested positive, people would be willing to accept Braun's story a lot more I think. The fact that all three samples were handled in the same way and all three tested positive makes it much more likely in my opinion.

It might help Braun's case, but if there is currently no suspicion around you, why would you voluntarily invite the suspicion?

If there is even the slightest chance that it will damage your future earning potential it is probably not a good idea to go public, especially if you are not a household name player.

[mckerney]

And The Onion nails it.

Joel Zumaya Agrees To Throw One Last Amazing Pitch | The Onion - America's Finest News Source (http://www.theonion.com/articles/joel-zumaya-agrees-to-throw-one-last-amazing-pitch,27183/)

Twins reliever Joel Zumaya to miss another season with torn ligament in right elbow - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/twins-reliever-joel-zumaya-out-for-season-with-torn-ligament-in-right-elbow/2012/02/26/gIQApi24bR_story.html)

[sterlingice]

And The Onion nails it.

Joel Zumaya Agrees To Throw One Last Amazing Pitch | The Onion - America's Finest News Source (http://www.theonion.com/articles/joel-zumaya-agrees-to-throw-one-last-amazing-pitch,27183/)

Twins reliever Joel Zumaya to miss another season with torn ligament in right elbow - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/twins-reliever-joel-zumaya-out-for-season-with-torn-ligament-in-right-elbow/2012/02/26/gIQApi24bR_story.html)

Noooo! How am I ever going to get my Joel Zumaya autographed Guitar Hero guitar if he retires? :(

SI

[Shkspr]

FWIW, my wife, who has paid no attention whatsoever to baseball in general and wouldn't know Ryan Braun from Eva Braun, is a chemist in a hospital lab. I asked her about urinalysis (we are so romantic) and without even mentioning the specifics of the case she was pretty adamant that an extra day would fuck up more or less any test she could think of. I asked her how long an unrefrigerated sample could go without being tested, how a sample would maintain integrity overnight, how much different refrigeration schemes retard the bacterial formation process, etc.

After hearing her responses, I'm 100% certain that if the Drug Testing policy mandates that a sample be there within a certain time, then that time frame was chosen because it's the outside edge of sample reliability. If a sample is delayed beyond that time, there's NO chance it's valid at any confidence level. As my wife put it, "After three days of sitting on a counter, there's a decent chance you'd show up pregnant using certain tests." There are tests my wife does that have to be performed no more than two hours after collection. She said she doesn't know of any tests that would produce proper results if the sample took more than 24 hours to get to the lab before being frozen. She also indicated that if the sample were frozen at the point of collection, that it would need to be kept in a non-frost-free environment, so even if the courier took it home and put it in his freezer for the weekend to retard bacteria growth, the sample would be considered tainted anyway.

Bottom line is, things grow in your piss, and they grow exponentially, and no matter what the intention was, if they say they're going to test within X hours, it's because at X+1 hours, there's too much stuff growing in that piss that wasn't there when they took the sample. If the sample was tested a day late, then there is no way to calibrate what the sample shows and that's all there is to it.

[rowech]

FWIW, my wife, who has paid no attention whatsoever to baseball in general and wouldn't know Ryan Braun from Eva Braun, is a chemist in a hospital lab. I asked her about urinalysis (we are so romantic) and without even mentioning the specifics of the case she was pretty adamant that an extra day would fuck up more or less any test she could think of. I asked her how long an unrefrigerated sample could go without being tested, how a sample would maintain integrity overnight, how much different refrigeration schemes retard the bacterial formation process, etc.

After hearing her responses, I'm 100% certain that if the Drug Testing policy mandates that a sample be there within a certain time, then that time frame was chosen because it's the outside edge of sample reliability. If a sample is delayed beyond that time, there's NO chance it's valid at any confidence level. As my wife put it, "After three days of sitting on a counter, there's a decent chance you'd show up pregnant using certain tests." There are tests my wife does that have to be performed no more than two hours after collection. She said she doesn't know of any tests that would produce proper results if the sample took more than 24 hours to get to the lab before being frozen. She also indicated that if the sample were frozen at the point of collection, that it would need to be kept in a non-frost-free environment, so even if the courier took it home and put it in his freezer for the weekend to retard bacteria growth, the sample would be considered tainted anyway.

Bottom line is, things grow in your piss, and they grow exponentially, and no matter what the intention was, if they say they're going to test within X hours, it's because at X+1 hours, there's too much stuff growing in that piss that wasn't there when they took the sample. If the sample was tested a day late, then there is no way to calibrate what the sample shows and that's all there is to it.

Can it start growing synthetic things?

[molson]

If a sample is delayed beyond that time, there's NO chance it's valid at any confidence level.

I wonder then, why it's perfectly OK under for a drug test to be delayed as long as there's "unusual circumstances" causing a delay. Not saying your wife is wrong, I just don't understand that part (of many parts). I'm reading online that vacuum-sealed urine can be stored for 6 months, though that's for standard drug tests, not necessarily the MLB's more comprehensive ones. That's how you get it when you buy urine online to cheat drug tests. I'm assuming the tester would vacuum-seal it on the spot and mail it that way, rather than just keep it in a coffee cup at his house or something.

[cougarfreak]

FWIW, my wife, who has paid no attention whatsoever to baseball in general and wouldn't know Ryan Braun from Eva Braun, is a chemist in a hospital lab. I asked her about urinalysis (we are so romantic) and without even mentioning the specifics of the case she was pretty adamant that an extra day would fuck up more or less any test she could think of. I asked her how long an unrefrigerated sample could go without being tested, how a sample would maintain integrity overnight, how much different refrigeration schemes retard the bacterial formation process, etc.

After hearing her responses, I'm 100% certain that if the Drug Testing policy mandates that a sample be there within a certain time, then that time frame was chosen because it's the outside edge of sample reliability. If a sample is delayed beyond that time, there's NO chance it's valid at any confidence level. As my wife put it, "After three days of sitting on a counter, there's a decent chance you'd show up pregnant using certain tests." There are tests my wife does that have to be performed no more than two hours after collection. She said she doesn't know of any tests that would produce proper results if the sample took more than 24 hours to get to the lab before being frozen. She also indicated that if the sample were frozen at the point of collection, that it would need to be kept in a non-frost-free environment, so even if the courier took it home and put it in his freezer for the weekend to retard bacteria growth, the sample would be considered tainted anyway.

Bottom line is, things grow in your piss, and they grow exponentially, and no matter what the intention was, if they say they're going to test within X hours, it's because at X+1 hours, there's too much stuff growing in that piss that wasn't there when they took the sample. If the sample was tested a day late, then there is no way to calibrate what the sample shows and that's all there is to it.

I thought I read the guy in charge of the IOC Dope Testing say it didn't matter. I've read so much on it in the past week, I have no idea where I read that. Maybe Passan's article?

[Shkspr]

I wonder then, why it's perfectly OK under for a drug test to be delayed as long as there's "unusual circumstances" causing a delay. Not saying your wife is wrong, I just don't understand that part (of many parts). I'm reading online that vacuum-sealed urine can be stored for 6 months, though that's for standard drug tests, not necessarily the MLB's more comprehensive ones. That's how you get it when you buy urine online to cheat drug tests. I'm assuming the tester would vacuum-seal it on the spot and mail it that way, rather than just keep it in a coffee cup at his house or something.

After I spoke with my wife, I went back and read the Joint Agreement. There's nothing in the JDA about vacuum sealing. There's nothing, incidentally, about freezing. The only guidelines are to keep it in a cool and secure place. Basically, you tape the cap on the bottles, mark them for chain of custody, stick it in a FedEx box and overnight it to the facility. The phrase "unusual circumstances" appears only once in the agreement; there is no indication of proper procedure in the event of "unusual circumstances". I would hazard a guess that the phrase was expected to be invoked on a frequency commensurate with "9/11" or "Katrina" than "Store's Closed".

I thought I read the guy in charge of the IOC Dope Testing say it didn't matter. I've read so much on it in the past week, I have no idea where I read that. Maybe Passan's article?

I'm sure the IOC rep said whatever makes the testing process appear more authoritative; that's his job. Given that a historically aberrant custody chain coincided with a historically aberrant result even among positive results, and that the first burden of proof is on the league to demonstrate why the sample should be considered valid despite the irregularities, that's a fairly high bar to cross unless you're stumping for the league.

[korme]

Can we all just stop arguing and agree that the Brewers 2012 season is equivalent to the Patriots' SpyGate (acquisitionally)?

/cincinnatiredsfan

[lungs]

Can it start growing synthetic things?

I'll post something somebody smarter than me on this subject wrote on another board:

No, you can't spontaneously sprout synthetic T in urine sample, but the test that "determines" that synthetic T is present does not actually find synthetic T in urine. What it does is identify the metabolites produced when T is used up by your body processes. It identifies them only by very precisely detemining when the remnants of those metabolites pass in front of a sensor after the urine sample has been literally turned into a gas. The gas rises up a tube and the different remnant rise at microscopically different rates. A sensor records data about these remnants as they pass by. This data is turned into a printout (though it can also be evaluated just as numbers). Then you look on your printout for a peak at a given "time" on the graph, you measure that peak and make a determination as to what that means.

Here's the catch. What if two different things are passing by the sensor at a give time? If you are predisposed to think that everything passing by that sensor at that specific time is indicative of synthetic T, you're going to get a big peak that looks like a lot of synthetic T that is actually only a mcuh smaller amounts of two different things. (And that small amount, for reasons alluded to in posts long ago, would not mean that there was a small amount of synthetic T, either. A determination of synthetic T being present can only be made by comparing ratios of different carbon ions, both of which are present in nature, and then making a statistical hypothesis that a certain ratio is "out of whack" with what would normally be expected in a given sample. It's diagnostic art and statistics as much as anything.

This is a vast oversimplification, but the point is that you don't "find' synthetic T waving back at you from under a microscope. These tests are extraordinarily complex in nature. Just reading this simplified version should provide further insight into why I say it's virtually impossible for the athlete to challenge the conclusion of the testers when they say they're right.

[molson]

If there's no vacuum sealing, and a sample is pretty much automatically no good after a day, it's interesting that Braun was using the "someone tampered with it" defense instead:

"We spoke to biochemists and scientists and we asked them, ‘How difficult would it be to tamper with somebody’s sample?’ And their response was that, ‘If they were motivated, it would be extremely easy.’ Again, that’s why it’s so important to get it out of the hands of the only person in the world who knows whose sample it is. As soon as it gets to FedEx, they don’t know whose sample it is. As soon as it gets to the lab, they don’t know whose sample it is. That’s why it’s extremely important."

[Ksyrup]

He's only using that defense to obscure the fact that he won on a technicality. Apparently it's not enough to say they broke protocol which invalidates the test, and I have no idea how or why the sample tested like it did. He has to insinuate, with no proof or suggestion of motive, that an otherwise professional healthcare worker tampered with his sample.

I've said I don't really care about any of this, and I don't from the bigger "let's just play ball" perspective (I don't care if he did or did not test positive), but what I've read of Braun's statement is really pretty sickening. Throwing someone under the bus with no proof or no reason other than to make yourself look good is bad form, IMO. This is one of those lawyer/PR-inspired moves that should backfire big-time on him. At least, I hope it does. He got some bad advice on how to handle this.

[miked]

Look folks, I'm a scientist and run a large lab. While it's highly likely Braun is a no-good cheating bastard, you cannot leave a sample around for a few days and hope that the testing retains its accuracy...unless you are testing for radioisotopes or something and even those decay slightly differently. I would think the fact that somebody just left it laying around unsecured would be enough to invalidate a test, it is certainly likely in the court of law. But leaving a biological sample around over any period time increases any probability that something you didn't control for happens. It's stupid that the MLB thinks this is ok and even that they want to appeal the ruling.

Any yes, they are not testing for the actual component, just metabolites and converted things. They are not testing for synthetic testosterone.

[sterlingice]

I don't want one of those seasonal threads where the title never changes but I think "Spring Training" for the next 4 weeks is good. I know there's a lot of Ryan Braun news and Zimmerman's contract is a big deal. But are we all good with just leaving it as "Spring Training" so we can all bask in the most wonderful time of the baseball year?

SI

[Grover]

Spring training 2012 -- Fred Wilpon intends to be New York Mets' owner for 'very long time' - ESPN New York (http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/7620552/spring-training-2012-fred-wilpon-intends-new-york-mets-owner-very-long-time)

The Wilpons ensure that I will not be watching baseball for a long time. This is depressing news.

[molson]

Look folks, I'm a scientist and run a large lab. While it's highly likely Braun is a no-good cheating bastard, you cannot leave a sample around for a few days and hope that the testing retains its accuracy...unless you are testing for radioisotopes or something and even those decay slightly differently. I would think the fact that somebody just left it laying around unsecured would be enough to invalidate a test, it is certainly likely in the court of law. But leaving a biological sample around over any period time increases any probability that something you didn't control for happens. It's stupid that the MLB thinks this is ok and even that they want to appeal the ruling.

Any yes, they are not testing for the actual component, just metabolites and converted things. They are not testing for synthetic testosterone.

Would it be typical to vacuum seal urine at the point of collection or just drop it in the mail/send it to the lab in a regular Tupperware container or something? And if it is vacuum sealed, doesn't that preserve the urine for longer than a day? If it can break down so quickly, it seems strange if no easy preservation methods were taken before you ship something off to Montreal.

[jbergey22]

Every bidder for the Dodgers should withdraw right now - latimes.com (http://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgersnow/la-sp-sn-every-bidder-for-the-dodgers-20120224,0,2499482.story)

For sure. McCourt as a bitter old fool could charge unreasonable rates for parking, eliminate any pregrame fun, and basically have a huge influence on attendence. It would be crazy to not get the parking lots in that deal.

[SackAttack]

For sure. McCourt as a bitter old fool could charge unreasonable rates for parking, eliminate any pregrame fun, and basically have a huge influence on attendence. It would be crazy to not get the parking lots in that deal.

The funny thing is? TJ Simers referred to him, last I read, as "The Parking Lot Attendant" because it was his ownership of parking lots in Boston that allowed him to leverage his way into a purchase of the team in the first place.

Funny in a make-you-cry way how the wheel turns, huh?

[Ksyrup]

Yeah, he's not a car salesman, he's a parking lot collector.

[MizzouRah]

Can we all just stop arguing and agree that the Brewers 2012 season is equivalent to the Patriots' SpyGate (acquisitionally)?

/cincinnatiredsfan

Agreed

/stlouiscardinalsfan

[Comey]

Danys Baez retired. My day has gotten better.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Royals making a long term contract announcement at 5:30 PM CST. Most expect it to be Alex Gordon.

[cougarfreak]

Reds sign newly acquired Sean Marshall to a 3 year $16.5 million dollar extension. So what they gave up this offseason in the two trades they get two pretty damn good arms under control for the next 4 years at a reasonable cost. Makes the Marshall trade seem a lot better IMO.

[RedKingGold]

Royals making a long term contract announcement at 5:30 PM CST. Most expect it to be Alex Gordon.

Nope, Sal Perez.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Nope, Sal Perez.

I'll take that too. :)

[lungs]

How's Ned Yost working out in Royals land? I was always a fan of the guy in Milwaukee and thought he'd be a good fit in KC.

[sterlingice]

Wow- Royals lock him in with little risk. Basically bought out his cost controlled years for 5yr/$7M and then 3 option years for $19.5M. Even if he sucks and they have to cut him, he costs them next to nothing.

Ok, so he was going to get paid $1M the next two years pre-arb. That means as long as he does better than $2M per year after that, they've come out ahead. And what happens if he's actually, you know, good? Then the savings are enormous.

SI

[sterlingice]

How's Ned Yost working out in Royals land? I was always a fan of the guy in Milwaukee and thought he'd be a good fit in KC.

I think the consensus is that he's doing a good job of helping the young guys develop. No one's really sure if he's the long term answer but he's a very good fit for a young, building team.

SI

[lungs]

I think the consensus is that he's doing a good job of helping the young guys develop. No one's really sure if he's the long term answer but he's a very good fit for a young, building team.

SI

Pretty much the same in Milwaukee. He didn't handle the road bumps that came with becoming a better team but he was always a learner and wouldn't count on him repeating the same mistakes the second time around. That said, he'll drive some people nuts tactically.

[Drake]

FWIW, my wife, who has paid no attention whatsoever to baseball in general and wouldn't know Ryan Braun from Eva Braun, is a chemist in a hospital lab. I asked her about urinalysis (we are so romantic) and without even mentioning the specifics of the case she was pretty adamant that an extra day would fuck up more or less any test she could think of. I asked her how long an unrefrigerated sample could go without being tested, how a sample would maintain integrity overnight, how much different refrigeration schemes retard the bacterial formation process, etc.

After hearing her responses, I'm 100% certain that if the Drug Testing policy mandates that a sample be there within a certain time, then that time frame was chosen because it's the outside edge of sample reliability. If a sample is delayed beyond that time, there's NO chance it's valid at any confidence level. As my wife put it, "After three days of sitting on a counter, there's a decent chance you'd show up pregnant using certain tests." There are tests my wife does that have to be performed no more than two hours after collection. She said she doesn't know of any tests that would produce proper results if the sample took more than 24 hours to get to the lab before being frozen. She also indicated that if the sample were frozen at the point of collection, that it would need to be kept in a non-frost-free environment, so even if the courier took it home and put it in his freezer for the weekend to retard bacteria growth, the sample would be considered tainted anyway.

Bottom line is, things grow in your piss, and they grow exponentially, and no matter what the intention was, if they say they're going to test within X hours, it's because at X+1 hours, there's too much stuff growing in that piss that wasn't there when they took the sample. If the sample was tested a day late, then there is no way to calibrate what the sample shows and that's all there is to it.

Pulling this from the last page. I had this exact same conversation with my wife (who's an RN at a drug treatment facility) because my memory from working at drug rehab places in college was that the validity of a sample was seriously degraded after 24 hours. If we didn't keep it refrigerated and couldn't get it to the lab within 24 hours, standard protocol was to toss it.

She agreed 100% with your wife and wanted to know why the fuck this was such a big deal. She said "It's bad medicine and bad science. Why are they even debating it? Just have the guy piss in a cup again and do the test right."

[lungs]

Pulling this from the last page. I had this exact same conversation with my wife (who's an RN at a drug treatment facility) because my memory from working at drug rehab places in college was that the validity of a sample was seriously degraded after 24 hours. If we didn't keep it refrigerated and couldn't get it to the lab within 24 hours, standard protocol was to toss it.

She agreed 100% with your wife and wanted to know why the fuck this was such a big deal. She said "It's bad medicine and bad science. Why are they even debating it? Just have the guy piss in a cup again and do the test right."

Because the witch hunt mentality there is when it comes to steroids doesn't care if a few innocents get thrown under the bus so long as they get a few real users and the process of finding users is never questioned.

No amount of science can hold off the pitch forks at this point. People have already made up their mind.

[Scoobz0202]

I'm reading the Molina was extended by the Cards. 5/70-75.

I haven't read much about it but my initial reaction is "what." Am I not giving him enough credit? I know he is a good defensive catcher, but that just seems excessive.

[sterlingice]

Much happier about Sal Perez contract after seeing those numbers bandied about :)

SI

[molson]

Because the witch hunt mentality there is when it comes to steroids doesn't care if a few innocents get thrown under the bus so long as they get a few real users and the process of finding users is never questioned.

No amount of science can hold off the pitch forks at this point. People have already made up their mind.

There's some witch hunting but there's also holes in the story. I'm content to look at it this way and move on - If they seal the vacuum samples before they mail them, and the seal preserves the sample for more than day, he's a cheater, and more annoyingly to me, a liar. If they don't, it's a corrupted test. I haven't seen anything conclusive on that, but the fact that his stated defense is that the tester spiked the sample, rather than just it was not reliable, is a pretty strong indication to me that that's his BEST defense (which isn't a good one). If it's as simple as "after 24 hours its never any good", why not just say that at press conference, and why not make that the public exoneration/defense? And why ship everything off to Canada, even if it's late Friday/Saturday and it won't get there until Monday?

[ISiddiqui]

No, it is merely the easiest defense - they violated the CBA.

[Drake]

No, it is merely the easiest defense - they violated the CBA.

You're a lawyer, aren't you? ;)

(Not a jab. That's actually a very smart way to tackle this issue from Braun's perspective, in my opinion.)

[molson]

No, it is merely the easiest defense - they violated the CBA.

I'm just looking at guilt or innocence, the arbiters can make their own judgment calls based on the evidence they here. And there was no "violation", there's just a policy that lists what the tester "should" do, and with that info the arbiter can make the call whether Braun was using performance enhancing substances. And THAT'S the question, is Braun guilty of violating the drug policy. It's the classic defense attorney strategy to try to confuse the issue and make the question, "were the procedures followed perfectly?", but that's not the relevant question. It might be EVIDENCE to support an answer to the ultimate question, but it's not itself the question. (It's very similar to a criminal defense attorney trying to make the trial about whether the police officer did everything perfectly, which is great strategy).

But in any event, in his public plea of innocence, the one his lawyers probably prepared word for word, Braun is relying on a tampering allegation, and I think that's telling.

[ISiddiqui]

You're a lawyer, aren't you? ;)

(Not a jab. That's actually a very smart way to tackle this issue from Braun's perspective, in my opinion.)

Guilty as charged ;).

And that's my point exactly. Go for the easiest thing to prove.

[molson]

Guilty as charged ;).

And that's my point exactly. Go for the easiest thing to prove.

That makes sense. If you're a defense attorney you attack the shit out of that tester and his sloppiness for sure (but personally, I'd have left out the tampering allegations, even if I knew the sample would be good for 6 months sealed.)

[ISiddiqui]

But was it properly sealed?

And do you want your client speaking on things that you may not be able to prove (it doesn't matter if the other side can't prove the contrary)?

[molson]

But was it properly sealed?

And do you want your client speaking on things that you may not be able to prove (it doesn't matter if the other side can't prove the contrary)?

I have no idea if it was sealed in a manner that preserves it more than a day, my opinion on the guilt/innocence of this would come down to that alone. Since I'm not sure of that, I'm just looking at the tampering accusations as evidence that Braun and his people knew it was sealed and that's the best innocence argument they have. So to me, that makes him look guilty, but I'm sure others have different takes on it and his people clearly aren't dumb. And I'd have a big ethical problem about publicly accusing someone of a serious crime without support, and even strongly implying such a thing. I mean at least in my jurisdictions and probably most, defense attorneys aren't randomly accusing police officers of planting evidence just because its theoretically possible that they could. I think that's a combination of ethics and the fact that the jury wouldn't like it. Here, it was maybe hidden enough that the public isn't going to turn on just because of that, but if you read the transcript, that's clearly what he's doing.

[RedKingGold]

I'm just looking at guilt or innocence, the arbiters can make their own judgment calls based on the evidence they here. And there was no "violation", there's just a policy that lists what the tester "should" do, and with that info the arbiter can make the call whether Braun was using performance enhancing substances. And THAT'S the question, is Braun guilty of violating the drug policy. It's the classic defense attorney strategy to try to confuse the issue and make the question, "were the procedures followed perfectly?", but that's not the relevant question. It might be EVIDENCE to support an answer to the ultimate question, but it's not itself the question. (It's very similar to a criminal defense attorney trying to make the trial about whether the police officer did everything perfectly, which is great strategy).

But in any event, in his public plea of innocence, the one his lawyers probably prepared word for word, Braun is relying on a tampering allegation, and I think that's telling.

Big difference between confusing a jury and confusing an arbitrator, the former is much, much easier.

Can't we just let all the facts play out before rushing to judgment? There probably is more to this story which will leak out over time.

[jbergey22]

I'm reading the Molina was extended by the Cards. 5/70-75.

I haven't read much about it but my initial reaction is "what." Am I not giving him enough credit? I know he is a good defensive catcher, but that just seems excessive.

He is a 4 WAR player playing in his prime years. Seems like a decent deal for both sides. Cards may have overpaid just a bit but I am sure they like the comfort of having the best defensive catcher in baseball locked up.

[Ksyrup]

Can't we just let all the facts play out before rushing to judgment? There probably is more to this story which will leak out over time.

What? I'm ready to pretend like it never happened. I definitely don't want this to drag out any longer.

[Scoobz0202]

He is a 4 WAR player playing in his prime years. Seems like a decent deal for both sides. Cards may have overpaid just a bit but I am sure they like the comfort of having the best defensive catcher in baseball locked up.

Was he still the best defensive catcher last year? I know he didn't throw out near the rate of baserunners that he has before. Fielding metrics really throw me for a loop, though, so I can't verify for myself.

[jbergey22]

Was he still the best defensive catcher last year? I know he didn't throw out near the rate of baserunners that he has before. Fielding metrics really throw me for a loop, though, so I can't verify for myself.

His fielding was down last year. According to the metics he was a 0.6 DWAR last year down from 1.6 DWAR(6th in the league) the previous year. He only threw out 29 percent of the runners last year as well which was down from 49 percent the previous year.

I dont think there is an issue as he looked very impressive defensively in the post season but the defensive numbers did fall off quite a bit last year.

[Scoobz0202]

Not to mention he is a career .707 OPS hitter. Seems risky and overpay to me.

We'll have to see.

[Chief Rum]

I guess you consider how well the staff has been performing with him behind the plate. I don't know those numbers, but I know St. Louis generally has a very strong rotation. While the pitchers should get most of the credit, clearly Molina is doing a good job handling them as well.

That said, I agree, my gut says that's an awfully big deal for a defensive specialist.

In semi-related news and one which will be rejoiced by sabermetric fans everywhere, Bengie Molina has officially retired. Thanks for 2002, Bengie.

[cartman]

In semi-related news and one which will be rejoiced by sabermetric fans everywhere, Bengie Molina has officially retired.

I guess he never was able to physically recover from hitting a triple (as part of the cycle) and later stealing a base during his 2010 stint with the Rangers. :D

[Ksyrup]

In semi-related news and one which will be rejoiced by sabermetric fans everywhere, Bengie Molina has officially retired. Thanks for 2002, Bengie.

I know this was just a throw-away comment, but it's crap like this that really irks me, because it attempts to perpetuate this myth that stat-driven analysis goes beyond the numbers to take personal stances for and against players.

The player is what his numbers say he is. If the dude wants to play until he's 64, more power to him. If anything, it's the team that gets cut on for choosing to employ a player who has demonstrated he's worth far less than your average AAA player. It's nothing personal against the player.

/end unnecessary rant

[Chief Rum]

I know this was just a throw-away comment, but it's crap like this that really irks me, because it attempts to perpetuate this myth that stat-driven analysis goes beyond the numbers to take personal stances for and against players.

The player is what his numbers say he is. If the dude wants to play until he's 64, more power to him. If anything, it's the team that gets cut on for choosing to employ a player who has demonstrated he's worth far less than your average AAA player. It's nothing personal against the player.

/end unnecessary rant

No, it's an acknowledgment that certain players are more efficient than others, and that that quality is highly valued by fans of the game who utilize sabermetrics as the measure of that efficiency. Those fans will enjoy the quality of play of those players better than the inefficient ones, of which Molina was a prime example.

So it's not a stretch, whether it irks you or not, that there are fans of sabermetrics who are not unhappy to see Bengie Molina retire.

[Ksyrup]

Certainly, there will be fans of whatever team that would be very happy he has retired rather than be signed b y their team to waste a roster spot. "Rejoicing" that he's out of the game? No, I don't think so. Even the occasional jokes about his value as a player don't cut to the personal level in that way.

[GrantDawg]

Certainly, there will be fans of whatever team that would be very happy he has retired rather than be signed b y their team to waste a roster spot. "Rejoicing" that he's out of the game? No, I don't think so. Even the occasional jokes about his value as a player don't cut to the personal level in that way.


I'm sorry, but there are elements of the metric proponents that do actively hate certain players. They rejoice in their failures, and actually get angry when they perform above their expectations. It is not all, or most, but some very vocal a-holes.

[Ksyrup]

I guess I've just miraculously happened to avoid those writers.

[Ksyrup]

On the Yadi contract, FWIW:

Dan Szymborski ‏ <S>@</S>DSzymborski
Yadi had a wonderful year and is a great glove, but 5/75 really sounds too high. I'll see what ZiPS thinks.

Dan Szymborski ‏ <S>@</S>DSzymborski
Nope, ZiPS says 5/75.3 markets cost right now for his 2013-2017.

[Arles]

This just came up on ESPN:

Milwaukee Brewers' Ryan Braun case -- sample collector says he followed protocols - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7625905/milwaukee-brewers-ryan-braun-case-sample-collector-says-followed-protocols)

A man identifying himself as the collector who took Ryan Braun's urine samples last fall said he followed the same protocol with the Milwaukee Brewers slugger as he had with hundreds of previous samples.

In an email sent Tuesday to ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney, Dino Laurenzi Jr., said he issued the statement "to set the record straight" about his role in testing Braun, whose 50-game suspension under baseball's drug policy was overturned Thursday.

Laurenzi said that at the time of the test, he obtained a signature from the NL MVP, stipulating that the samples were capped and sealed in his presence.

Another source says:
Laurenzi said he has been a collector for Comprehensive Drug Testing since 2005, conducting more than 600 collections since then, in addition to postseason collections for five major league teams.

"I followed the same procedure in collecting Mr. Braun's sample as I did in the hundreds of other samples I collected under the program," Laurenzi said of his collection of Braun's urine samples on Oct. 1.

"I sealed the bottles containing Mr. Braun's A and B samples with specially numbered, tamper-resistant seals, and Mr. Braun signed a form certifying, among other things, that the specimens were capped and sealed in his presence and that the specimen identification numbers on the top of the form matched those on the seals."

Although MLB officials would not comment on the record, sources told ESPN legal analyst Lester Munson they are still convinced that the sample tested came from Braun, and that the positive test result was correct. They emphasized that the FedEx package that arrived at the Montreal laboratory handling the test was sealed three times with tamper-proof seals -- one on the box, one on a plastic bag inside the box, and again on the vial that contained the urine.
I feel like this guy is being thrown under the bus. Regardless of when the sample got there, if it was sealed it should have been fine. It seems like this is akin to a guy caught stealing something but being let off because he didn't have his Miranda rights read to him properly.

If I were Braun, I wouldn't stick my chest out and act like I've been exonerated completely. I'd thank the heavens that this technicality exists and move on.

[Ksyrup]

That's the thing that bothers me about this - Braun taking shots at this guy insinuating that the sample was tampered with. It's not really a victory for Braun if he just acknowledges the procedure might have been wrong, because everyone woudl still know the sample was positive. So he has to screw this guy over by suggesting, without any proof, that the sample must have been tampered with.

You can tell Braun's statement was heavily lawyered because he never mentions the guy's name or makes anything more than vague semi-accusations. Just terrible.

[DaddyTorgo]

Braun's a schmuck.

[Chief Rum]

I guess I've just miraculously happened to avoid those writers.

They're not all writers.

[Ksyrup]

I'm sorry, basement dwellers.

[Chief Rum]

That's the thing that bothers me about this - Braun taking shots at this guy insinuating that the sample was tampered with. It's not really a victory for Braun if he just acknowledges the procedure might have been wrong, because everyone woudl still know the sample was positive. So he has to screw this guy over by suggesting, without any proof, that the sample must have been tampered with.

You can tell Braun's statement was heavily lawyered because he never mentions the guy's name or makes anything more than vague semi-accusations. Just terrible.

Agreed. And what I find really funny is exactly what you say, Braun and his team clearly prepared this statement. It just seems over the top and reaching to jump forward to the tampering charge, rather than relying on the delay in testing that actually led the arbitrator to overturn the suspension.

You woulda thought a bunch of people who are all at least reasonably intelligent would realize how silly and weird this would all look and not go this way. Of course, I also think they shouldn't have said anything but a simple statement acknowledging the result and being happy about it, rather than doing a PC proclaiming Braun's "innocence".

[Ksyrup]

The person I'm more annoyed with in this whole thing is Aaron Rodgers, tbh. While I don't agree with what Braun did, I can at least understand it, since it's his livelihood at stake, and you expect someone to fight, etc. But Rodgers just comes off as a douchenozzle with his tweets claiming Braun's been exhonerated. i actually think less of Rodgers than I do Braun at this very moment.

[cartman]

Looks like there is another case of the Caribbean Magic Age Change happening. The Rangers just signed a top DR prospect, but evidently he has presented a couple of different dates of birth.

Baseball America | Blog | Baseball America Prospects Blog | Rangers’ Surprise Signing Draws Industry Scrutiny (http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2012/02/rangers-surprise-signing-draws-industry-scrutiny/)

[mckerney]

Expert says delay would not have altered Braun drug test - JSOnline (http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/expert-says-delay-would-not-have-altered-braun-drug-test-4n4bo3t-140665663.html)

It would be unheard of for a urine sample such as the one given by Ryan Braun to have degraded into abnormally high levels of testosterone or into synthetic testosterone during the 44 hours that it sat in a refrigerator waiting to be shipped to a testing lab, according to an international expert on drug testing of athletes.

That leaves only a few other possibilities, said Gary Wadler, a physician and former official with the World Anti-Doping Agency.

One is that someone deliberately smeared a testosterone gel onto Braun's skin without his knowledge. Another is that someone tampered with Braun's urine sample.

"The (other possibility) is that he really doped," said Wadler, a professor of medicine at Hofstra North Shore-LIJ School of Medicine in New York.

Wadler noted that the testosterone level in Braun's urine sample was exceedingly high.

In a normal sample the ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone is roughly one-to-one. Anything more than 4-1 is considered abnormal and triggers a second test. Braun's sample came in at 20-1 for the ratio between the two hormones. In addition, a separate test showed the presence of synthetic testosterone.

"Twenty-to-one is off the radar screen," Wadler said. "There is no way that sitting around for 44 hours would have resulted in elevated testosterone (or synthetic testosterone)."

Testosterone is the male hormone that helps build muscle.

Wadler said Braun won his appeal on a "procedural technicality," that his sample was kept for 44 hours in the refrigerator of the person who collected it before it was shipped to the testing lab, creating a chain of command question.

That raises the question of tampering.

Is it possible to tamper with the urine sample of a player during the major league baseball drug testing process?

That question was bandied about with great vigor after Braun suggested during a news conference last week that tampering was a possibility with his positive drug test that he had overturned with a successful appeal to a three-man arbitration panel.

The Office of Commissioner Bud Selig quickly responded to Braun's allegation, with executive vice president Rob Manfred saying, "Neither Mr. Braun nor the Major League Baseball Players Association contended in the grievance that his sample had been tampered with or produced any evidence of tampering."

The MLB drug program, which is jointly administered by the Commissioner's Office and the players union, is designed to prevent the possibility of tampering, by the collector or anyone else involved in the program. The process begins with the collector witnessing the player urinating in a cup, then dividing it into two separate samples marked "A" and "B."

Lids are placed on both cups with chain-of-custody tape used to seal both, which the player witnesses. The collector then must show the player that leakage is not possible with the samples.

Past cases

Wadler noted that Braun has been adamant in denying that he has ever used performance-enhancing drugs.

But so too have other athletes who eventually were found to have cheated, he said.

"We are all too familiar with impassioned statements whether it was (Olympic Games track star) Marion Jones or (baseball player) Rafael Palmeiro," Wadler noted.

In 2007, Jones pleaded guilty to lying to federal investigators about taking banned substances and was subsequently stripped of her Olympic medals by the International Olympic Committee.

In 2005, Baltimore Orioles player Palmeiro waved his finger in front of a congressional committee and insisted that he never used steroids, only to test positive a few months later.

Wadler added that Braun's case had similarities to that of cyclist Floyd Landis.

Landis was stripped of his 2006 Tour de France title after testing positive for high levels of testosterone - an 11-1 ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone - and synthetic testosterone.

For years he denied the allegation and spent $2 million in legal fees fighting it before finally admitting to it.

"He looked square into the camera and said, 'I did nothing wrong,' " Wadler said. "Of course, a period of time goes by and he says, 'You got me.' "

[lungs]

That expert assumes it was refrigerated, which the sample was not.

[Ksyrup]

AJ Burnett, orbital bone fracture from bunting a ball off his face, out indefinitely.

The Pirates suck so bad, they can cause a downturn in AJ Burnett's post-Yankees career. That's pretty impressive.

[Butter]

That expert assumes it was refrigerated, which the sample was not.

Did I miss a report or something that definitively said it wasn't? Everything I heard said it was, but it was not terribly convincing.

[cartman]

Did I miss a report or something that definitively said it wasn't? Everything I heard said it was, but it was not terribly convincing.

From the guy who collected the sample:

Laurenzi said in the statement that he stored the samples in a "FedEx Clinic Pack in a Rubbermaid container in my office which is located in my basement. My basement office is sufficiently cool to store urine samples."

[jbergey22]

Braungate.

The more Braun says the more guilty he makes himself look. He should just say nothing more about it.

[lungs]

We've all pretty much made up our mind at this point. Short of the arbitrator's decision getting released, there's not much else to say by anybody and I thought Braun's lawyer speaking today was dumb.

He'll be loved in Milwaukee and vilified elsewhere, and with an eternity left on his contract (9 years?), nothing's going to change that until he starts playing like shit when he gets old. He many not put up MVP numbers like he did last year without Fielder behind him but it's not going to be some huge drop off like some steroid alarmists would have you believe.

I'm just ready for some games and talking shit to (mainly) Cardinal fans and likely this year Red fans. Of course there's always that chihuahua biting at your heels aka the Pittsburgh Pirates.

[mckerney]

Kids Of Milwaukee Forced To Look Up To Ryan Braun On Technicality | The Onion - America's Finest News Source (http://www.theonion.com/articles/kids-of-milwaukee-forced-to-look-up-to-ryan-braun,27499/)

[Ksyrup]

I already knew this just based on things like the Howard contract and the Papelbon debacle (that's a great band name), but this just makes me sad to be a Phillies fan.

It's like being a Royals or Pirates fan earlier in the century, except they have enough money to overcome their willful ignorance. I mean, I'm cool with using various means to evaluate players, but they admit the only use they have for this stuff is to determine how other teams will value their players. Doesn't that tell you something?

Inside the Phillies: Who needs sabermetrics? (http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/20120302_Inside_the_Phillies__Who_needs_sabermetrics_.html)

[ISiddiqui]

From the guy who collected the sample:

His basement is refigerator temperature?

[Ksyrup]

OK, here's a HUGE pet peeve of mine about the misunderstanding of sabremetrics:



"When you're sitting there and a guy brings up sabermetrics, they don't know nothing about that guy, and that may be the biggest thing," Manuel said. "Sometimes a guy will look at you and say, 'Why did you play that guy, he's 1 for 16 against that guy with seven punch-outs?' But when I've watched that guy, he might be 1 for 16, but nine of those at-bats the guy hit about three or four balls hard.



This is NOT an example of SABR influence on baseball. In fact, it's just the opposite. One of the basic tenets of analyzing stats is sample size. Most (nearly all) SABR-inclined guys will tell you it's nuts to pinch hit a .750 OPS player with a .600 OPS guy just because the former is 1-12 in his career against a particular pitcher and the latter is 3-7. They don't even know or understand what they are objecting to. They should hire Joe Morgan away from the Reds as a consultant.