Junior Seau dead.

[Lathum]

hearing multiple reports

[Subby]

RT @Deadspin: TMZ reports that Junior Seau has been found dead inside his home: Report: Former NFL Linebacker Junior Seau Found Dead (http://deadsp.in/KOP6aj)

[spleen1015]

Only seeing TMZ reporting it, but WTF?!

[jeff061]

From NFL offseason thread.

Junior Seau Dead -- Cops Suspect Suicide | TMZ.com (http://www.tmz.com/2012/05/02/junior-seau-dead/)

[Lathum]

Report: Shooting At Junior Seau's Oceanside Home - San Diego News Story - KGTV San Diego (http://www.10news.com/news/30993007/detail.html)

[stevew]

RIP as long as he didn't take someone else with him or something.

I really hope that he didn't shoot himself in the head, as I wonder how fucked up his brain really is/was.

[panerd]

Suicide would match with accidently driving off a cliff last year.

[jeff061]

I imagine many head injuries. And frankly, I don't see how you perform at the level he did for as long as he did without some roids/HGH.

I'm not looking to crap on the guy. Just speculating that combo could lead to this tragic end.

[spleen1015]

I imagine many head injuries. And frankly, I don't see how you perform at the level he did for as long as he did without some roids/HGH.

I'm not looking to crap on the guy. Just speculating that combo could lead to this tragic end.

I was thinking the same thing, but didn't think I could say it in a good way. :(

[Subby]

Death Is Stalking The 1994 Chargers (http://deadspin.com/5867720/death-is-stalking-the-1994-chargers)

[Rizon]

I imagine many head injuries. And frankly, I don't see how you perform at the level he did for as long as he did without some roids/HGH.

I'm not looking to crap on the guy. Just speculating that combo could lead to this tragic end.

Yeah, always thought he was on the stuff. Towards the end of his career he seemed like a good candidate for a 5150 breakdown. Sad.

[RomaGoth]

Yep, multiple reports that he was found dead in his home, including Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_Seau). :(

[RomaGoth]

dola

reports are that it was a suicide

[PilotMan]

ugh, this is not what any football fan wants to hear. What a tragedy.

[Grover]

RIP Junior. One of the best linebackers I've had the pleasure of watching.

[Subby]

Yep, multiple reports that he was found dead in his home, including Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_Seau). :(
Ummmm...

[BYU 14]

Holy Shit, I don't even want to believe this......One of the last guys you would think of doing this. :(

RIP Junior....

[BillJasper]

RIP Junior.

One of the best linebackers of my generation.

[BillJasper]

Still nothing on NFL Network.

[spleen1015]

Yeah, I am not seeing it on mainstream media yet, NFL Network, ESPN, CNN, etc.

No mentions on ESPN Radio yet.

[Easy Mac]

Holy Shit, I don't even want to believe this......One of the last guys you would think of doing this. :(

RIP Junior....

Really, he tried to do this two years ago.

[Chief Rum]

ESPN hasn't found a way to take credit for reporting it yet. Once they figure that out, they will be all over it.

[panerd]

Yeah, I am not seeing it on mainstream media yet, NFL Network, ESPN, CNN, etc.

No mentions on ESPN Radio yet.

Just like the John Edwards story they can't stand being "out-scooped" by what they consider to be inferior media so instead they will act like it didn't happen.

EDIT: Chief Rum said it even better. Until they make up a way that they "broke" the story.

[spleen1015]

I'm just surprised that it hasn't been mentioned on the radio. Nothing. Even the hourly update didn't mention anything.

How can SVP not mention it and talk about the other stuff instead?

[RomaGoth]

Ummmm...

Is this better?

Reports: Junior Seau commits suicide at home - NFL News | FOX Sports on MSN (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/junior-seau-shooting-at-home-050212)

[molson]

I think there's probably a different standard for some outlets when it comes to reporting deaths. You like to be sure. The San Diego news websites just say that there's a bunch of police around Seau's house and that a neighbor told them that the police told him that Seau shot himself. That's what it is, one neighbor, that might not be enough for the mainstream outlets. I'm sure in 10 minutes it will be everywhere.

Edit: TMZ claims "multiple law enforcement sources", which is interesting, as apparently when the big news go down, the cops with loose lips call up TMZ (or they have pre-existing relationships with TMZ).

[chadritt]

Nor should it be. I read "reports" yesterday that Tyler Perry had died in his studios fire. It was likely rooted in one guy nearby saying hed heard it was possible that Tyler Perry was inside.

[BYU 14]

Really, he tried to do this two years ago.

I hadn't read about that other incident until now, just going by what I knew at the time. He always seemed like an upbeat guy in interviews and such.

[albionmoonlight]

I really hope that he didn't shoot himself in the head, as I wonder how fucked up his brain really is/was.

TMZ saying gunshot to the chest.

And, yeah, I hope that they are allowed to study his brain.

[Pyser]

tmz is never wrong on this stuff. rip.

[molson]

And, yeah, I hope that they are allowed to study his brain.

I'm sure Chris Nowitzki has already been in touch with the family. And I don't mean that in a negative way, it's kind of a necessary level of haste when you're dealing with human organs. And they're usually glad to facilitate the research when he calls, from what I've read.

[Grover]

He's the 8th memeber of the 1994 Chargers to die before the age of 45.

[JediKooter]

I'm just surprised that it hasn't been mentioned on the radio. Nothing. Even the hourly update didn't mention anything.

How can SVP not mention it and talk about the other stuff instead?

East coast bias.

[Subby]

Is this better?

Reports: Junior Seau commits suicide at home - NFL News | FOX Sports on MSN (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/junior-seau-shooting-at-home-050212)
I'll have to verify with WIKIPEDIA and get back to you.

[stevew]

Let me see if Altavista has any of this breaking news.

[stevew]

can't find a link in my hotmail account.

[Suicane75]

Sportsdigs has not reported this yet last month.

[Subby]

SPORTSDIGS BLAH BLAH BLAH

[Subby]

DAMMIT SUICANE

[stevew]

Some guy on usenet said it was true too.

[molson]

can't find a link in my hotmail account.

Check your spam folder, hotmail thinks everything is spam.

[Toddzilla]

For what it is worth, we will look back on today as the day pro-football began a long,slow death spiral that will result in the death of the NFL in particular, and football in general.

As has been said many times by people smarter than I, the massive brain-rattling injuries are not the issue, it's the repetitive, concussive, smaller blows to the head that players endure 20-50 times a game that causes the long term brain damage. First, pee-wee leagues and high-schools will cease to exist after the insurance costs get prohibitively high. Once high-school football is gone, the college game will disappear due to the same insurance reasons plus the lack of the high-school talent pipeline. After that, the NFL goes away, or at least becomes this century's boxing or horse racing.

[Toddzilla]

gunshot would to the chest - he knowingly preserved his brain

[Crapshoot]

Football does this to people. The consistent head trauma, even in high school players, screws with the human brain. I am not trying to make a simplistic "football = suicide" argument here, but more raise the point as to how long we're ok with what is basically gladiatorial combat for our age.

[Antmeister]

Wow.......this is just tragic. Ever since he drove off the cliff a while back, I was worried about his state of mind. Never knew what was driving him to think this way. Damn....

[bronconick]

Football does this to people. The consistent head trauma, even in high school players, screws with the human brain. I am not trying to make a simplistic "football = suicide" argument here, but more raise the point as to how long we're ok with what is basically gladiatorial combat for our age.

We also had the 2-3 hockey players last year that committed suicide as well. Very troubling.

[Marmel]

For what it is worth, we will look back on today as the day pro-football began a long,slow death spiral that will result in the death of the NFL in particular, and football in general.

As has been said many times by people smarter than I, the massive brain-rattling injuries are not the issue, it's the repetitive, concussive, smaller blows to the head that players endure 20-50 times a game that causes the long term brain damage. First, pee-wee leagues and high-schools will cease to exist after the insurance costs get prohibitively high. Once high-school football is gone, the college game will disappear due to the same insurance reasons plus the lack of the high-school talent pipeline. After that, the NFL goes away, or at least becomes this century's boxing or horse racing.

As crazy as this sounds, I could see something like this happening. As much crap as Goddell takes for trying to clean up the game, he might just be doing what is necessary to maintain the game.

[RomaGoth]

I'll have to verify with WIKIPEDIA and get back to you.

I get that Wiki isn't the most useful source most of the time, but this news is all over the place right now. I was just pointing out one particular location.

[Marmel]

...and who is the person who rushes to wikipedia seconds after any celebrity death to update their page??

[stevew]

I don't necessarily agree with this becoming the defining moment of brain trauma causing the end of pro football. But I agree with the sentiment. I wonder what kind of data might be found if you were able to correlate former HS football players with prison inmates. Especially those who played concussion prone positions like DB, LB, RB and (option)QB.

I won't have a son, but if I did, I would only want him playing one of the line positions.

[Rizon]

I get that Wiki isn't the most useful source most of the time, but this news is all over the place right now. I was just pointing out one particular location.

FB blowin up with sources from everywhere now.

[molson]

You'd think NASA or somebody could create a concussion-proof helmet. It's 2012 people!

[spleen1015]

I won't have a son, but if I did, I would only want him playing one of the line positions.

I work with a guy that played football through college. He is positive that he has brain related issues because of it. He refuses to let his son play football.

I'll never have a son at this point. If I ever do, I don't think I'll let him play football.

[Easy Mac]

You'd think NASA or somebody could create a concussion-proof helmet. It's 2012 people!

For real, I mean it's not like they haven't figured out how to put someone else on the moon in the last 40 years.

[RomaGoth]

As crazy as this sounds, I could see something like this happening. As much crap as Goddell takes for trying to clean up the game, he might just be doing what is necessary to maintain the game.

I wonder if Goodell will come to be known as the NFL commissioner who devalued the NFL and the game of football....whether right or wrong is irrelevant at this point. Clearly there is something going on with pro athletes and brain trauma.

[stevew]

FB blowin up with sources from everywhere now.

someone on myspace also confirmed this.

[stevew]

You'd think NASA or somebody could create a concussion-proof helmet. It's 2012 people!

you see all these supposedly space age Revolution style helmets, but I can't believe they don't work very well.

Mark Kelso had the right idea.

[stevew]

http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/kelso.jpg

[Rizon]

someone on myspace also confirmed this.

Sarah Phillips?

[Grover]

Apparently, Seau wrote in his suicide note that he shot himself in the chest to save his brain for research.

[Grover]

You'd think NASA or somebody could create a concussion-proof helmet. It's 2012 people!

No helmet is going to protect against the potential for a concussion. It's all about the brain sloshing around inside of the skull. Any amount of force or trauma can cause a concussion regardless of the helmet.

[Suicane75]

I wonder if he left a note. Would be interesting.

[Fidatelo]

Apparently, Seau wrote in his suicide note that he shot himself in the chest to save his brain for research.

Didn't another athlete do this a year or two ago?

[stevew]

Duerso

[Grover]

Didn't another athlete do this a year or two ago?

Dave Duerson.

Dave Duerson: Death Ruled Suicide; Donates Brain to Science (http://www.theroot.com/buzz/dave-duerson-death-ruled-suicide-donates-brain-science)

[RomaGoth]

Didn't another athlete do this a year or two ago?

Wasn't it Boogard or Belak from the NHL?

[gstelmack]

You'd think NASA or somebody could create a concussion-proof helmet. It's 2012 people!

There are much better helmets that absorb more of the impact, causing less of the brain sloshing around, but the players refuse to wear them...

[Toddzilla]

I won't have a son, but if I did, I would only want him playing one of the line positions.dude, that's the most impactful, dangerous position for concussions and brain trauma. The only solution, imo, is to not let your kids play football.

it's the only logical conclusion to be made.

[Suicane75]

DAMMIT SUICANE

You should have been quicker sooner.

[Crapshoot]

I don't necessarily agree with this becoming the defining moment of brain trauma causing the end of pro football. But I agree with the sentiment. I wonder what kind of data might be found if you were able to correlate former HS football players with prison inmates. Especially those who played concussion prone positions like DB, LB, RB and (option)QB.

I won't have a son, but if I did, I would only want him playing one of the line positions.

There is no way I would allow any son of mine to play football. Just no way.

[Crapshoot]

Apparently, Seau wrote in his suicide note that he shot himself in the chest to save his brain for research.

Christ. The NFL and its media sycophants will ignore this stuff, but that's heartbreaking if its true.

[RomaGoth]

dude, that's the most impactful, dangerous position for concussions and brain trauma. The only solution, imo, is to not let your kids play football.

it's the only logical conclusion to be made.

Luckily my son has no interest in playing organized football. A few years ago I was kinda pushing him into at least trying it out but after he tried it a couple of times, just didn't care enough. I am starting to agree with his decision.

[cuervo72]

dude, that's the most impactful, dangerous position for concussions and brain trauma. The only solution, imo, is to not let your kids play football.

it's the only logical conclusion to be made.

Mmm, I dunno. Linemen aren't usually taught to hit with their heads - you keep your head up and to one side or another (you use your head to get between the defender and the hole you are trying to steer him away from). At least that's how I was taught. If you're on the DL, you want to avoid contact (with other linemen) as much as possible.

We're also not as fast and don't have any room to accelerate - you fire out of your stance* and that's it. No running and hurtling yourself at a ball carrier.

* That's IF you even fire out. Pass blocking? You back off and have your hands out in front of you, trying to keep the defender away from your body.

[Crapshoot]

There are much better helmets that absorb more of the impact, causing less of the brain sloshing around, but the players refuse to wear them...

Well, what happens is that the perception of safety actually leads to further actions because of it. Its not a solution.

[stevew]

Mmm, I dunno. Linemen aren't usually taught to hit with their heads - you keep your head up and to one side or another (you use your head to get between the defender and the hole you are trying to steer him away from). At least that's how I was taught. If you're on the DL, you want to avoid contact (with other linemen) as much as possible.

We're also not as fast and don't have any room to accelerate - you fire out of your stance* and that's it. No running and hurtling yourself at a ball carrier.

* That's IF you even fire out. Pass blocking? You back off and have your hands out in front of you, trying to keep the defender away from your body.

I guess the school of thought he is coming from is the one that all the minor bumps that would occur on each play can together have an exponential effect towards brain damage. The concussions from RB or some other high impact position are going to be greater, but the frequent jumbling can lead towards damage as well. At least that's what I glean from some research i was looking at.

I wouldn't want my hypothetical, never going to happen, son playing football either. But if he wanted to, I would only want him playing something like tackle or defensive end.

Not trying to speak for Todd, but i think this is where he was coming from?

[Fidatelo]

I guess the school of thought he is coming from is the one that all the minor bumps that would occur on each play can together have an exponential effect towards brain damage. The concussions from RB or some other high impact position are going to be greater, but the frequent jumbling can lead towards damage as well. At least that's what I glean from some research i was looking at.

I wouldn't want my hypothetical, never going to happen, son playing football either. But if he wanted to, I would only want him playing something like tackle or defensive end.

I've got two young boys (1 and 3), and stuff like this gives me pause on whether to put them in hockey (or, to a lesser-likelihood, football). I want them to get to play sports and have all the great experiences that can come from them, plus get to watch them myself, but I don't want to find out in 15 years that I've doomed them to brain issues later in life. At least parents 5+ years ago had no clue, it's almost worse in this stage of early knowledge.

[JediKooter]

Do sports like rugby or Australian Rules Football have these same issues with concussions? I mean, they have no helmets at all and I'm sure there's been a head that's met a knee or another head during the course of play. Or is this issue also happening, but, the news we hear here is so American centric, we just don't hear about it in those other sports?

[DanGarion]

RIP Junior.

Also I think they should use bubble wrap.

[BYU 14]

dude, that's the most impactful, dangerous position for concussions and brain trauma. The only solution, imo, is to not let your kids play football..

Not true, the momentum generated by lineman colliding is not as damaging to the brain as the sudden deceleration that can occur several times a game from receivers, backs, etc taking a big hit. Line schemes now that rely heavily on zone blocking don't place the linemans head at the point of contact very much.

Helmets have come a long way, they are able to cushion blows significantly and more important concussion reconition and treatment has improved immensely in the last 20 years.

In addition technique being taught now at younger levels through High School emphasizes not using the head as a point of contact. This doesn't mean Football is safe, there is always a risk and always will be, just like any other sport.

Most any sport a kid plays involves danger, every year we hear of kids being killed by batted balls in Baseball.

Soccer has a much higher incidence of concussions then most people realize

Boxing and MMA carry risks of serious brain injury, it goes on and on....

Obviously I am going to defend Football, but I won't be an apologist for it. We need rules in place that penalize head to head contact and I am glad they are in place and become more stringent year after year. The awareness of concussions is higher than ever and equipment continues to improve. There is still a long way to go though and it is sad we are now seeing so many players from times past when this awareness did not exist paying the price.

My biggest concern regarding youth / high school players is organizations affording the best head gear out there now. We have gone to all revolution Helmets over the last 2 years and at the cost of up to $400 each x 150+ kids in our program it is quite an expense.

[molson]

The concussion angle of this is completely legit to look at but I think it's worth remembering too that suicide is the 10th leading cause of death in the U.S., and people in their 40s have the highest suicide rate of any age group. There's tens of thousands of people who are killing themselves every year even though they've never played a down, and many of them are as successful in life as Seau was. You can't tie a cause of suicide to mental trauma v. genetic mental illness with any certainty.

[thesloppy]

I think getting rid of helmets entirely would actually reduce concussions much more than improved helmets, as it would force folks to stop initiating contact with with their heads, and start using their shoulders, arms and technique to tackle, and hand-technique at the line. I think I remember reading somewhere that concussions and injuries went up with the Revolution helmets, because their improved rigidity and strength also meant they were more effective to tackle with, and you can see it on the field, as people tackle with the force of their helmet all the time in the modern game, and arm wrapping and technique are secondary. I would imagine 'improving' helmets to the point that they were concussion-proof would also mean that they were better battering rams, and tackling technique would actually again move further towards head-first tackling, rather than away from it.

[Toddzilla]

Seriously? Linemen smash helmets pretty much on every single play. Again, this isn't about the one or two massive concussive injuries, its the repeated play-after-play-after-play trauma of helment to helmet impact again and again and again.

Look at the Center's helmet after a game and tell me he didn't knock helmetsabout 50 times.

[tucker rocky]

If this was a suicide, he should've sought out help.
Shame that someone with much more to offer after his playing career,
would do this.

May peace be with you now, Junior Seau.

[MacroGuru]

RIP Junior,

I enjoyed the time you took out of your busy life back in 93 with Seth Joyner to meet with a couple of high schools boys from Utah that were awestruck by who you were.

You will be missed....

He was a down to earth relaxed guy that I met several times due to being friends with several of his "family" members from Utah. I know this has to be devastating for them...Prayers to his family at this time.

[ColtCrazy]

So sad to hear this.

[Eaglesfan27]

A terrible tragedy.

[Eaglesfan27]

I wonder if he left a note. Would be interesting.

Reports are that he left a note in which he expressed a wish for his brain to be studied which is why he shot himself in the chest.

[Kodos]

Very sad. Makes one consider giving up football as a spectator sport.

[kcchief19]

The media coverage of this is disgusting. Not long ago, most media had policies against report suicides. Now reporters are tripping over each other to report on any rumors and innuendo.

The helicopter over his home is horrific. Let the family grieve in peace. Let the police do their work. If they determine it's a suicide and they determine it's related to his football career, report that when you know. Right now, nobody knows anything, so they should keep their mouths shut.

There's plenty of time to discuss the story and the ramifications later. Right now, it's disgusting that a family has to grieve in the public eye with friggin' helicopters and satellite trucks following them. This is why I got out of journalism.

[BYU 14]

Seriously? Linemen smash helmets pretty much on every single play. Again, this isn't about the one or two massive concussive injuries, its the repeated play-after-play-after-play trauma of helment to helmet impact again and again and again.

Look at the Center's helmet after a game and tell me he didn't knock helmetsabout 50 times.

Not saying that Todd, I am saying it is not the primary point of contact as much and the blows aren't as heavy. We go through a concussion certification course every other season and this exact topic was addressed and research in the last course I took (2010) indicated line was safer than other positions. I think this is generally supported by the players in their 40's and 50's that commit suicide that have had their brains examined. There is risk for every position, I am not disputing that.

[BYU 14]

The media coverage of this is disgusting. Not long ago, most media had policies against report suicides. Now reporters are tripping over each other to report on any rumors and innuendo.

The helicopter over his home is horrific. Let the family grieve in peace. Let the police do their work. If they determine it's a suicide and they determine it's related to his football career, report that when you know. Right now, nobody knows anything, so they should keep their mouths shut.

There's plenty of time to discuss the story and the ramifications later. Right now, it's disgusting that a family has to grieve in the public eye with friggin' helicopters and satellite trucks following them. This is why I got out of journalism.

The TMZ age unfortunately and I agree.....But sadly it sells.

[JediKooter]

If this was a suicide, he should've sought out help.
Shame that someone with much more to offer after his playing career,
would do this.

May peace be with you now, Junior Seau.

If he suffered from brain damage due to too many concussions or steroids, or whatever, I'm pretty certain that him seeking out help was way easier said than done. You can't just switch off brain damage and think rationally and say, "Hey, I really need some help here". It doesn't work that way. Your brain is malfunctioning. Something as routine as brushing your teeth, to you and me, could be almost impossible for him to do, while at the same time he's able to perform other routine day to day tasks without issue. When something is wrong with your CPU, all bets are off, especially expecting someone to be rational. This of course is assuming that he did indeed suffer from some kind of brain damage.

If he didn't suffer from any kind of brain damage, personally, it's none of my business why he chose to kill himself. Maybe he felt he tried everything he could to make his situation better or maybe he felt he had nothing further to offer in this world. Who knows? It's sad, as I hate to see anyone kill themselves, but, I'm not them so I don't know what they've been through or are going through. What if he was suffering from some kind of terminal cancer and wanted to go out on his own terms? Suicide is a very selfish act in my opinion, but, it's also selfish reasons as to why I wouldn't want someone to do it.

I wish he would have gotten help too, but, he didn't and we don't yet know the reason (maybe we never will) why he did what he did. All we can do right now is speculate.

[RomaGoth]

The media coverage of this is disgusting. Not long ago, most media had policies against report suicides. Now reporters are tripping over each other to report on any rumors and innuendo.

The helicopter over his home is horrific. Let the family grieve in peace. Let the police do their work. If they determine it's a suicide and they determine it's related to his football career, report that when you know. Right now, nobody knows anything, so they should keep their mouths shut.

There's plenty of time to discuss the story and the ramifications later. Right now, it's disgusting that a family has to grieve in the public eye with friggin' helicopters and satellite trucks following them. This is why I got out of journalism.

It is indeed disgusting.

[Toddzilla]

Not saying that Todd, I am saying it is not the primary point of contact as much and the blows aren't as heavy. We go through a concussion certification course every other season and this exact topic was addressed and research in the last course I took (2010) indicated line was safer than other positions. I think this is generally supported by the players in their 40's and 50's that commit suicide that have had their brains examined. There is risk for every position, I am not disputing that.OK, gotcha. I kinda misunderstood what you wrote. Word to your mother :)

[SunDevil]

Junior Seau did not leave a note.

Police: Junior Seau Did Not Leave a Suicide Note | The Big Lead (http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2012/05/02/police-junior-seau-did-not-leave-a-suicide-note/)

[molson]

Even though I knew this fact earlier this afternoon it kind of just hit me how compelling, and how shocking it is that, apparently, 2 pro athletes now have shot themselves in the chest in order to preserve the brain for research. That's just an incredible statement - imagine if this becomes a thing, if more and more retired athletes shoot themselves in the chest. I think that really could lead to the end of the NFL, or at least a popularity hit, and/or radical rule changes.

But I guess to play devil's advocate, I wonder if these guys's self-awareness of CTE created some kind of self-fulfilling prophesy. I can see a depressed, proud, former pro athlete thinking, "well, I could fight this, but I know it's a lost cause, there's no hope, it's only going to get worse, but maybe if I end this now I won't end up like Mike Webster, or Justin Strzelczyk, I won't be a burden or embarrassed to my family, I'll go out on my terms now".

[rowech]

We're so quick to say, "it has to be the concussions". How many "regular" adults do we have today that can't adjust to society the way it is? Why is it that we can't just see a 43 year old man, who had done one thing his whole life since he was 8 years old, simply not being able to adjust to a "regular" life.

It's like Brooks from Shawshank. I'm sure concussions played a part of it but I just don't see it being the only factor. There's other stuff going on and these guys I think just reflect a growing part of our society.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I couldn't believe this when I heard it on the news.

I didn't even think of the concussions (or steroid) issue... just thought that maybe he couldn't handle life after football, as he did't seem to know when to walk away.

Sad... How do you wake up in the morning and kill yourself?

RIP

[Buccaneer]

One of my favorite players. RIP :(

[tyketime]

This sucks... RIP.

[EagleFan]

I wonder what kind of data might be found if you were able to correlate former HS football players with prison inmates. Especially those who played concussion prone positions like DB, LB, RB and (option)QB.


They already have this. It's called the Bengals' media guide...

[EagleFan]

Take away the pads and helmets. Players won't be launching themselves like weapons if they don't feel that nothing will hapen to them because of all the pads.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Take away the pads and helmets.

Isn't that called rugby?

[EagleFan]

Isn't that called rugby?

My next suggestion was taking away the forward pass.

[MizzouRah]

Sad news.. :(

[Antmeister]

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/mW8dzJhXs5Q" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

Damn.

[Dodgerchick]

Sad. Just, sad. RIP :'(

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Aside from the fact that a man everybody seemingly loved and admired...

What my mind fails to grasp is how a man could have seemingly anything and everything we could dream of, wake up, and decide that putting a bullet in his chest is better than even finishing that day.

He had a great career as a player. A broadcast career. Could have practically any woman most of us could only dream of... and he picked up a gun and shot himself.

I would take practically any job that calls me back, have no prospects for a woman (much less one that knows where a gym is) and yet I can't imagine actually killing myself. And yes, I am depressed.

What the fuck.

[Scoobz0202]

I mean, it's pure speculation, and something that you normally have to steer clear of, right? But, the damage to his brain has to be a large role, right? With the studies already done can there really be any doubt what the results would show of a study of Junior Seau's brain if tests are actually done? I don't think you can say it was THE CAUSE, but if he has a mental illness then the added state of his brain can only raise the stakes that much more.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

You can say all you want about damage to his brain, but a fact most people forget is that by and large most football players do not kill themselves.

If we blamed every problem on everything but the individual, then we would find the stress of life in general to be too much for mankind. There are guys who are in their 80's who played football at a time when knocking somebody's head off was commonplace. Frank Fucking Gifford can still carry on a coherent conversation.

Should we do all we can to protect players? Absolutely. But a few guys have killed themselves that people liked and the discussion goes to blame the game. Accountants and lawyers kill themselves too. Depression is a bitch.

From what Wiley recounted, Seau was the type who HAD to keep pain from others. He HAD to be admired. I doubt there has ever been a study on this, but I would bet that the suicide rates are higher in those who are need to be admired than in those who don't give a damn.

[Danny]

People are jumping to conclusions WAY too much in this thread.

In 2007, 34,598 killed themselves. The overall rate was 11.3 suicide deaths per 100,000 people, which is about 1 in 9,000.

At this point we have no idea whether or not Seau playing football had anything to do with the fact he killed himself. We obviously saw a certain Seau in the public eye, but that does not mean that when he went home at the end of the day, he didn't suffer from extreme depression.

Now, I am not saying his football career did not have anything to do with his suicide either, but at this point, speculating that it did is ridiculous. I certainly haven't noticed a trend of Ex NFL players killing themselves more than the general population. Seau just happened to be a high profile guy.

[AlexB]

From what I've read, it's very reminiscent of the death of Gary Speed earlier this year. Speed was a Welsh football international who played well beyond the average age of retirement, was the current manager of the Welsh national team, and was found by his wfie one morning hanging in his garage. Pretty much completely without warning. Similar age too.

Who knows what the reasons were, but the conclusion that it is to do with concussion is a leap at the moment. Just as likely to be finding it difficult to find reason after their sporting careers, as both extended them as long as they could have, beyond the norm

Tremendously sad to see this news

[PilotMan]

People are jumping to conclusions WAY too much in this thread.

In 2007, 34,598 killed themselves. The overall rate was 11.3 suicide deaths per 100,000 people, which is about 1 in 9,000.

At this point we have no idea whether or not Seau playing football had anything to do with the fact he killed himself. We obviously saw a certain Seau in the public eye, but that does not mean that when he went home at the end of the day, he didn't suffer from extreme depression.

Now, I am not saying his football career did not have anything to do with his suicide either, but at this point, speculating that it did is ridiculous. I certainly haven't noticed a trend of Ex NFL players killing themselves more than the general population. Seau just happened to be a high profile guy.


This.

Not to mention that some people just can't cope with that kind of life change. It's a big deal, and perfectionists can't move past the point that they aren't doing the only thing that they have been doing for their whole lives. And then there is the age. Perfect for a midlife crisis. There had been reports that he had been unhappy for quite a while now.

[miami_fan]

People are jumping to conclusions WAY too much in this thread.

In 2007, 34,598 killed themselves. The overall rate was 11.3 suicide deaths per 100,000 people, which is about 1 in 9,000.

At this point we have no idea whether or not Seau playing football had anything to do with the fact he killed himself. We obviously saw a certain Seau in the public eye, but that does not mean that when he went home at the end of the day, he didn't suffer from extreme depression.

Now, I am not saying his football career did not have anything to do with his suicide either, but at this point, speculating that it did is ridiculous. I certainly haven't noticed a trend of Ex NFL players killing themselves more than the general population. Seau just happened to be a high profile guy.

You may be absolutely right but here is the problem. Are you or anyone else prepared to wait for the evidence that says football does not have anything to do with it? Or at the very least are you willing to deal with the public perception of such a person would be? It is hard to fight public perception if people are actually strategically putting bullets in themselves in order to preserve a second part of their body to be research.

It's early and we may find out that football has nothing to do with this. Or we may find out that football had something to do with it. Your response to that may vary. The fact that many people went straight to that place is telling.

[molson]

Also, in terms of impact on the NFL, concussion awareness, and measures taken for the protection of players - perception is all that matters. Right now, it looks like Seau believed his depression was related to football in that he wanted his brain preserved, and obviously that's the angle the media has embraced.

[Danny]

Also, in terms of impact on the NFL, concussion awareness, and measures taken for the protection of players - perception is all that matters. Right now, it looks like Seau believed his depression was related to football in that he wanted his brain preserved, and obviously that's the angle the media has embraced.

And he was also cleary mentally unstable, so his beliefs dont mean a whole lot.

And to the above poster, of course the media jumped there, they love a good story.

That said, i am defintely in favor of increased safety precausions for players.

[molson]

And he was also cleary mentally unstable, so his beliefs dont mean a whole lot.

And to the above poster, of course the media jumped there, they love a good story.

That said, i am defintely in favor of increased safety precausions for players.

Beliefs mean a ton if the media and the public react to them and the popularity/rules of the NFL are impacted because of them, that's my only point.

[Toddzilla]

For those who keep wondering "how could he do that?" "he had so much", etc. you really don't understand depression and how incredibly bad severe depression is. I saw EF27 here so I won't try to be a doctor, but it is way way worse than you think it is and to say "he had so much to live for" is laughable, because it doesn't even register.

[BYU 14]

Todd makes a great point, severe depression completely nullifies most to all positives a person has in their life. Your focus on how bad you feel can become an obsession and not much else matters.

Fame and fortune are all fine and good, but not sure I would want the baggage that comes with it.....Especially when the spotlight goes away.

[Antmeister]

Really wondering how Rodney Harrison is doing right now. Haven't seen anything from him since this occurred.

[Logan]

The Night Junior Seau Picked Up A Marine Captain's Tab And Serenaded Bar Patrons With A Ukulele (http://deadspin.com/5907297/the-night-junior-seau-picked-up-a-marine-captains-tab-and-serenaded-bar-patrons-with-a-ukulele)

[Bigsmooth]

What a bummer. I'm just waiting for OJ to use concussions as an excuse for killing fools.

[BYU 14]

The Night Junior Seau Picked Up A Marine Captain's Tab And Serenaded Bar Patrons With A Ukulele (http://deadspin.com/5907297/the-night-junior-seau-picked-up-a-marine-captains-tab-and-serenaded-bar-patrons-with-a-ukulele)

Thanks for posting this, cool story!!

[stevew]

What a bummer. I'm just waiting for OJ to use concussions as an excuse for killing fools.

I wouldn't doubt it contributed

[Senator]

I guess the concussion king of my youth, some who said had more concussions that any other player of his era, Roger Staubach will be on the 6th floor of the schoolbook depository building anytime now.

[Antmeister]

So it looks like Seau's family agreed to let Boston University study his brain.

Really weird to know that someone that close to my age, and that I went to high school with, just ended it this way.

[Senator]

His family seem like great people; really feel bad for them.

[Ben E Lou]

Autopsy: No apparent damage to Seau's brain – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs (http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/21/autopsy-no-apparent-damage-to-seaus-brain/?hpt=hp_t3)

[Chief Rum]

Autopsy: No apparent damage to Seau's brain – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs (http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/21/autopsy-no-apparent-damage-to-seaus-brain/?hpt=hp_t3)

Hmm... so what does this mean?

[gstelmack]

Hmm... so what does this mean?

That unless something comes up on the much deeper investigation, right now it looks like a plain old suicide, not a football-related-head-injury-induced suicide like folks tried to jump on immediately.

[molson]

On the one hand, we certainly haven't maxed out our understanding of how the brain works, so we can't definitively make conclusions like, "nothing wrong with the dude's brain."

On the other hand, I was thinking a while ago about how EVERY single athlete brain that was studied by that group that is looking for CTE, found CTE. (I can't be 100% sure about the "every", but there's a long list of guys who had it, and no list of all of those who didn't). They've found CTE in high school kids' brains, in college kids' brains. I wondered what meaning that CTE diagnosis had. For Seau not to have it is pretty surprising.

[molson]

That unless something comes up on the much deeper investigation, right now it looks like a plain old suicide, not a football-related-head-injury-induced suicide like folks tried to jump on immediately.

And maybe some depression fueled by a self-fulfilling prophecy. If society tells you're supposed to have mental issues based on your lifestyle, that can't be helpful when you have depression or more treatable disorders.

[JediKooter]

No suicide note and the sim card to his cell phone is missing. Seems weird, but, not sure how unusual that is in cases like this.

[JonInMiddleGA]

No suicide note and the sim card to his cell phone is missing. Seems weird, but, not sure how unusual that is in cases like this.

The sim card seems rather unusual.

[JediKooter]

The sim card seems rather unusual.

I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but, it does seem odd to say the least.

[CU Tiger]

When you live your entire life for one thing, be it a game, a career, another person, doesn't matter; when its taken away or otherwise ends the meaning of your life has many, many questions for lots of people.

[holy shit that has to be random comma syndrome..way too many. but im too tired to try and fix that shat]

[JediKooter]

When you live your entire life for one thing, be it a game, a career, another person, doesn't matter; when its taken away or otherwise ends the meaning of your life has many, many questions for lots of people.

[holy shit that has to be random comma syndrome..way too many. but im too tired to try and fix that shat]

I read it in Captain Kirk's voice, if that helps.

[Logan]

Junior Seau Diagnosed With Brain Disease Caused by Hits to Head - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/US/junior-seau-diagnosed-brain-disease-caused-hits-head/story?id=18171785)

[molson]

Well, Seau was the last holdout, but now it seems to be the case that every single person who ever played football had chronic brain damage. I don't know how useful that is to know because not every person who ever played football kills themselves or others or (though some do, and a lot have other post-career issues of course).

Still, when this group finds what they're looking for in literally EVERY brain they've ever checked, it makes you wonder how much it matters. It's true, they can only check dead brains, so maybe there's some kind of correlation. But a 100% correction? Nobody ever dies unless they have brain damage? I mean, they've found it high school kids. If you played football in high school, you're brain damaged. Edit: One thing I haven't been able to find if is group studies the brains of non-football players. That would be critical I think. Do soccer players have it? Does everyone have it? Does life itself result in a damaged brain?

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Well, Seau was the last holdout, but now it seems to be the case that every single person who ever played football had chronic brain damage. I don't know how useful that is to know because not every person who ever played football kills themselves or others or (though some do, and a lot have other post-career issues of course).

Still, when this group finds what they're looking for in literally EVERY brain they've ever checked, it makes you wonder how much it matters. It's true, they can only check dead brains, so maybe there's some kind of correlation. But a 100% correction? Nobody ever dies unless they have brain damage? I mean, they've found it high school kids. If you played football in high school, you're brain damaged. Edit: One thing I haven't been able to find if is group studies the brains of non-football players. That would be critical I think. Do soccer players have it? Does everyone have it? Does life itself result in a damaged brain?

http://youthfrenzy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/abnormal-brain.jpg

[JonInMiddleGA]

Still, when this group finds what they're looking for in literally EVERY brain they've ever checked ...

While I tend to agree that there seems to be significant risk of research for the sake of proving a hypothesis in all this, best I could tell the Seau research was done by the NIH rather than the several other groups that tend to always pop up in these stories. Now whether there's some less obvious cross-pollination between the NIH & those I can't say, but the difference seemed at least fair to note.

[molson]

While I tend to agree that there seems to be significant risk of research for the sake of proving a hypothesis in all this, best I could tell the Seau research was done by the NIH rather than the several other groups that tend to always pop up in these stories. Now whether there's some less obvious cross-pollination between the NIH & those I can't say, but the difference seemed at least fair to note.

Ya, it's the Boston University group that was specifically setup for this purpose that seems suspect - they're something like 33 for 33 in finding CTE in brains they've tested.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Ya, it's the Boston University group that was specifically setup for this purpose that seems suspect - they're something like 33 for 33 in finding CTE in brains they've tested.

Yeah, Sports Legacy Institute aka Chris Nowinski's bunch.

[Logan]

Ya, it's the Boston University group that was specifically setup for this purpose that seems suspect - they're something like 33 for 33 in finding CTE in brains they've tested.

Their BU page looks like it hasn't been updated in a while, but it shows 18 of 19 with former NFL players, FWIW.

Case Studies » Center for the Study of Traumatic Encephalopathy | Boston University (http://www.bu.edu/cste/case-studies/)

[Marc Vaughan]

One thing I haven't been able to find if is group studies the brains of non-football players. That would be critical I think. Do soccer players have it? Does everyone have it? Does life itself result in a damaged brain?

I remember similar concerns/studies about soccer at one point in the 90's from continually heading the ball - I think it proved that it can occur in some very rare cases, but it being England people shrugged, said shit happens and carried on playing ;)

Study on Norwegian players (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2008931)

Again without a 'base' comparison its impossible to say how serious anything is and without full knowledge of the players backgrounds (ie. soccer players have notorious social/drinking habits as I expect NFL players also do?) I personally wouldn't rule out other potential causes.

I'd also be interested to know exactly what effect that 'damage' has in real world terms.

PS - I'm also a great believer in 'shit happens' ... frankly there is risk and consequence in everything you do, it doesn't mean you should never do anything.
I already think sports and risk are far too sanitized in life as it is, sports are a great way for men who spend their entire life ignoring their natural instincts (which is frankly still at least partially based around being a hunter/gather imho) to burn off some adrenalin and compete against each other in a manner which isn't normally allowed.

[cougarfreak]

I don't know, in my book, I knew playing sports carried risk. Bum knees, bad feet, aches and pains from playing soccer for 18 years, and when it got to be too much of a pain, I stopped playing at the age of 23. These guys get paid millions of dollars, and I would assume they know there is risk involved. I'm sure other jobs carry higher risk of suicide from stress as well. You don't sign a waiver or ask for more money for those after you're done. I just don't get the whole concept.

[gstelmack]

I would have more sympathy with the players if they didn't en masse avoid the improved helmets that have been out for a decade or two due to comfort or look, didn't avoid thigh pads because they slow them down, etc.

[Logan]

I would have more sympathy with the players if they didn't en masse avoid the improved helmets that have been out for a decade or two due to comfort or look, didn't avoid thigh pads because they slow them down, etc.

And they're the ones who drop their head to tackle, drop their head to run into an oncoming tackler, etc.

[dawgfan]

I don't know, in my book, I knew playing sports carried risk. Bum knees, bad feet, aches and pains from playing soccer for 18 years, and when it got to be too much of a pain, I stopped playing at the age of 23. These guys get paid millions of dollars, and I would assume they know there is risk involved. I'm sure other jobs carry higher risk of suicide from stress as well. You don't sign a waiver or ask for more money for those after you're done. I just don't get the whole concept.
There's a difference in knowing that there's "some risk" vs. knowing in far greater detail what that risk is.

And even more importantly, the issue is less about "should folks play football" and more "are/were team doctors negligent about protecting their players". Were doctors ignoring clear signs of concussions in their players and sending them back out to play when they shouldn't have.

[Fidatelo]

I don't think it's really fair to completely put this on the players. As recently as 4 or 5 years ago this was barely even a recognized issue. These guys grew up playing a game assuming one set of risks (broken down physical bodies and the very rare chance of paralysis/death/etc), but are just now discovering the additional risk of CTE. And it's not, apparently, a rare risk, but rather almost a given for anyone who plays the sport (or many sports, it seems) for a prolonged period of time. So everything they've done to this point becomes built on a foundation that isn't as solid as they thought it was. Yet what do they do? Just quit? Try to change how they play at the risk of being ineffective? It's not an easy call.

I sort of liken this to when it finally came out that smoking was bad for you. I had trouble faulting anyone from my grandfather's generation who smoked because, as crazy as it seems now, they really didn't know it was so bad for them when they started.

[Logan]

I'm certainly not blaming any of this on the players as a whole for the reasons you mentioned. But that's kind of the point...it's an insanely violent game as it is, so when you see guys spearing others with their helmets, or hear about bounties, it makes you realize that if the players aren't the ones most concerned about safety, the ability for this problem to get fixed is pretty tough.

[Logan]

And even more importantly, the issue is less about "should folks play football" and more "are/were team doctors negligent about protecting their players". Were doctors ignoring clear signs of concussions in their players and sending them back out to play when they shouldn't have.

Was anyone watching the Cincinnati/Duke bowl game? I happened to catch a decent amount of it, and let me describe what happened.

Cincy ball. They have a big TE named Kelse, guy is a good 6'6" 250+ I'm sure. He catches the ball, turns his body, and a Duke safety named Byas drops his head and goes in for the tackle. They go helmet to helmet and down. Kelse is shaken a bit, but Byers gets up and does that wobbly dance where he stumbles for about 5 yards before catching himself (aided by a teammate). Five years ago we probably laugh at it. But there was very little doubt that he had suffered a concussion, or at least no doubt that he was displaying symptoms, so in watching, I'm not laughing...just assuming he'll be pulled out of the game, as did the commentators.

Fast forward TWO PLAYS. Big man Kelse catches the ball, and guess who is there to tackle him? Byas...and he drops his head again going in for the tackle and they crash down together. This time he's pretty much knocked out so he stays down. Thankfully this time he didn't return to the field.

I'm sitting there thinking how the hell did anyone let this kid back on the field that night, much less two plays later? If I'm anyone in authority at that school, or anyone associated with the doctors on the sideline, there's hell to pay the next day. The announcers were shocked that he got back on the field, and were legitimately concerned about his health. And you could tell they were awkwardly holding the conversation in a way that wouldn't allow them to just say "those doctors were being negligent".

[cougarfreak]

I don't think it's really fair to completely put this on the players. As recently as 4 or 5 years ago this was barely even a recognized issue. These guys grew up playing a game assuming one set of risks (broken down physical bodies and the very rare chance of paralysis/death/etc), but are just now discovering the additional risk of CTE. And it's not, apparently, a rare risk, but rather almost a given for anyone who plays the sport (or many sports, it seems) for a prolonged period of time. So everything they've done to this point becomes built on a foundation that isn't as solid as they thought it was. Yet what do they do? Just quit? Try to change how they play at the risk of being ineffective? It's not an easy call.

I sort of liken this to when it finally came out that smoking was bad for you. I had trouble faulting anyone from my grandfather's generation who smoked because, as crazy as it seems now, they really didn't know it was so bad for them when they started.

So, now they know they have suffered brain damage, which can lead to depression, etc., how many of them are seeking treatment for all of this? I honestly don't know the answer to the question. Anyone out there actively looking at stuff before they lay on a shotgun and pull the trigger? Or are we just looking at brains after the fact?

[Marc Vaughan]

I'm sitting there thinking how the hell did anyone let this kid back on the field that night, much less two plays later? If I'm anyone in authority at that school, or anyone associated with the doctors on the sideline, there's hell to pay the next day.

Is the kid in question an adult - if so then so long as he's informed of the situation and able to make a decision surely its down to him?

Mainly asking because I played in a university soccer team with a goalkeeper who was awesome but had a dodgy shoulder - he'd dislocated it badly years ago and so routinely dislocated it when playing.

He'd just get up grimace and ram it against the goal post until it went in again ..... no one tried to stop him playing despite the fact it was obvious it was painful and hurt him as a matter of course, he was an adult he knew the risks.

(similarly we had a player on our team who had been thrown off the Man Utd youth team because of a badly broken leg, he'd been told never to play again because a bad challenge could have serious consequences - but again it was his choice and he was an adult so he played ... what can I say us English are stupid ;) )

[Marc Vaughan]

What I'm trying to say is - at what point does 'safety' intrude upon 'freedom' ...

That is very few things in life are 100% safe, however as adults we have to choose which we want to risk and undertake.

For instance my eyesight is shot to pieces, probably not helped by my chosen career programming computer games - I knew the risks involved, but I love my job ... hence its a risk I'm willing to take.

Should someone have assessed me and said 'no you can't make games for a living' ? .... if not then what is the difference between that and playing a sport?

[Fidatelo]

I think it all becomes different when talking about concussions because it's not "are you an adult?" but instead "are you of sound body and mind?". The dude with the shoulder injury might be a bit of a brick-head but he knows what he's doing. The guy who gets knocked loopy and then is back on the field again 2 plays later may not even remember getting hit loopy, or may not be thinking straight enough to make proper decisions.

[miked]

Well, Seau was the last holdout, but now it seems to be the case that every single person who ever played football had chronic brain damage. I don't know how useful that is to know because not every person who ever played football kills themselves or others or (though some do, and a lot have other post-career issues of course).

Still, when this group finds what they're looking for in literally EVERY brain they've ever checked, it makes you wonder how much it matters. It's true, they can only check dead brains, so maybe there's some kind of correlation. But a 100% correction? Nobody ever dies unless they have brain damage? I mean, they've found it high school kids. If you played football in high school, you're brain damaged. Edit: One thing I haven't been able to find if is group studies the brains of non-football players. That would be critical I think. Do soccer players have it? Does everyone have it? Does life itself result in a damaged brain?

Well, without getting into statistical power (because they are likely not powered enough). Is it a stretch to believe that repeated trauma to your head could cause damage? Whereas it does not always result in suicide or some other crazy thing, it would matter where the damage occurred. I would think it would be in their best interest to add some control groups, as well as people who kill themselves that never play football.

But yeah, it isn't too surprising that they find excessive brain damage in people who have smashed their heads against things for 20+ years.

[molson]

Well, without getting into statistical power (because they are likely not powered enough). Is it a stretch to believe that repeated trauma to your head could cause damage? Whereas it does not always result in suicide or some other crazy thing, it would matter where the damage occurred. I would think it would be in their best interest to add some control groups, as well as people who kill themselves that never play football.

But yeah, it isn't too surprising that they find excessive brain damage in people who have smashed their heads against things for 20+ years.

Ya, I definitely buy this is not a terrific activity for your health, It's just a hard to make sense of what it all really means when everybody (or almost everybody) who ever played football, even at just the high school level, has it.

They kind of lost me when Chris Benoit's brain was described as "resembling an Alzheimer's patient" - even though until the day he died, he traveled the world independently, remembered lines, and performed complex physical activities. I'm sure there was truth to that and the key word was "resemble", but the Benoit apologists immediately jumped on that to proclaim that what happened wasn't his fault because he didn't know what he was doing, because, well Alzheimer's patients don't know what they're doing and that's what his brain resembled. Since almost all football players have this same "disorder" CTE, is the logical extension that football players aren't responsible for any of their actions? Even when the crimes occur when they're still playing football and taking part in society and such? What about their personal foul penalties, are they really even responsible for them if they're so so brain damaged? And if almost all football players have this, then some number of non-football players must have it too, especially other athletes, or people that have had head injuries in other contexts. Are they responsible for their actions? Are any of us? That's the tricky path here that I'm wary of.

[miked]

It's very gray because, well, it really depends on where the damage is. If it's in the brain stem, it could affect motor functions, if it's in the cortex, it could affect anything from vision, personality, cognitive behavior, etc. I agree with you that CTE probably means little in and of itself, but it's clearly an issue and the focus needs to be not just preventing it, but detecting it.

I assume when they say Chris Benoit's brain look like an Alzheimer's patient, they may have been referring to amyloid plaques (though I don't know). Depending on where the plaques are, they can have different effects. Also, since it's the brain, it's also quite unpredictable. The thing about neural disorders is that people can be normal one minute, then present symptoms the next...it's even harder to pinpoint when it's emotional as that person may not even be aware.

[Marc Vaughan]

I think it all becomes different when talking about concussions because it's not "are you an adult?" but instead "are you of sound body and mind?". The dude with the shoulder injury might be a bit of a brick-head but he knows what he's doing. The guy who gets knocked loopy and then is back on the field again 2 plays later may not even remember getting hit loopy, or may not be thinking straight enough to make proper decisions.

I agree with the concussion argument and in those circumstances safety should be adhered to.

Finally in the case of long term brain damage I doubt this is often caused by concussion in soccer; more by repeated blows (ie. heading the ball) over time ... in a similar manner if you're a professional Footballer then chances are you could avoid concussion but get repeated minor blows and gain such an 'injury' - does that mean all sports should be non-contact or simply that people should understand the risks and potential consequences?

(its also worth balancing the risks inherent in contact sport against the fitness and mental stimulation etc. that you gain from such activities imho - ie. is the risk of injury better than the risks from potentially not exercising for the individual concerned?)

[sterlingice]

I also think there's a matter of degrees and getting the right information out there to make an informed decision. For instance, we suspect that the air we breathe in most cities is pretty crappy. But how bad? Like "I'm going to cough when I get to be 90" crappy or "I should move to the country because my life expectancy went from 90 to 60" crappy? That's a pretty wide gulf. Same with water pollution. Carrying a cell phone? Living under power lines? Living near power lines? I mean- there are a lot of things in our everyday life that we really have no clue about exactly how bad they are for us even if we suspect they are bad.

Heck, I was talking to my Grandpa over Christmas and asked him about smoking. When he was in the navy in the 40s, they were rationed cigarettes as they were viewed positively as keeping the soldiers calm. Sure, in retrospect, it should have been easy to see that lighting something on fire and sucking on it was a bad idea, but not if you don't have a great idea of how the body interacts. (Granted, he said he traded his for sweets because he preferred them :D)

SI

[Peregrine]

I found this article really interesting - glad to see at least one team is taking a step forward to start gathering data on football hits - I mean as far as I know, the science on what causes sports concussions has a long way to go, so more data, as Stanford is doing here, seems a good idea to me.

Stanford Investigates the Hits that Cause Concussions | KQED QUEST (http://science.kqed.org/quest/audio/stanford-investigates-the-hits-that-cause-concussions/)

[Peregrine]

Junior Seau's family has now sued the NFL over his death.

Former football star Junior Seau's family sues NFL, Riddell helmets - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/23/sport/nfl-seau-lawsuit/index.html?hpt=hp_c2)

[BishopMVP]

I found this article really interesting - glad to see at least one team is taking a step forward to start gathering data on football hits - I mean as far as I know, the science on what causes sports concussions has a long way to go, so more data, as Stanford is doing here, seems a good idea to me.

Stanford Investigates the Hits that Cause Concussions | KQED QUEST (http://science.kqed.org/quest/audio/stanford-investigates-the-hits-that-cause-concussions/)I coach for a club lacrosse team with 60-70 players in each grade 4th-12th, and we're working on a deal where all our players get free baseline testing in exchange for the researchers doing it getting to use the data because there is just so little of it out there.

It's interesting to see some of the attitudes present at the HS level. My school started requiring a baseline test for everyone playing a contact sport last year, but at least one neighboring district refused to do them - partly because the science is unclear, but also partly with the thinking that it opens the school up to liability and lawsuits. There's also the issue of players reporting symptoms - there's a larger discussion going on between myself, the AD, and a few other coaches on whether there should be a mandatory 3-week vacation for anyone diagnosed with a concussion, and what exactly the threshold to trigger that is. We've had 2 players in 4 years where it was obvious they were concussed, and both were done for 3+ weeks, but we've had a number of other players who took a pretty hard hit and refused to say/admit anything to the trainer for fear they would be done for 3 weeks when they didn't really have a concussion. I always err of the side of caution and pull them from that game/tell them and their parents to monitor it and go to a neurologist if they want to, but it's walking a line between being willfully ignorant and needlessly overprotective. I feel it's best to have some trust where the kid can be honest with me without that triggering an automatic response, but even that won't solve the issue (I definitely got a concussion 2 summers ago playing co-ed soccer, to the point I was speaking sentences out of order, and got called out on doing so at halftime by 2 friends, yet adamantly denied having a concussion and played the 2nd half. If that's the mindset of someone like me for a meaningless adult co-ed game, I know how futile it is to hope that HS/college/pro players will ever voluntarily pull themselves from games.)

[CrimsonFox]

how many times is this guy gonna die?
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[CrimsonFox]

Ugh. I couldn't get through two paragraphs of that article. So they are suing football for being a violent sport where people get hit in the head.

Can I countersue for stupidity?
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[dawgfan]

Ugh. I couldn't get through two paragraphs of that article. So they are suing football for being a violent sport where people get hit in the head.

Can I countersue for stupidity?
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Is that why they're suing? Or are they suing because people in authority making judgments about his fitness to play prioritized getting him on the field vs. his long term health?

It's really easy from the comfort of our keyboards to say "Seau knew what he was doing - football is a violent sport!" But in the heat of battle on gamedays, he's going to do whatever he can to be a team player and be on the field. It's up to the team doctors, trainers & coaches to look at the bigger picture and hold out players that are too injured to be on the field.

[CrimsonFox]

Okay I didn't read the article that closely. I assumed it was saying his brain problems came as a result of his getting hit in the head.

Was his brain issues something he already had? And the hits in the head WITH that problem what killed him?

And did he already know he had this problem before he died and/or before he played football?

The beginning of the article made me think the brain condition occurred as a result of football.

Is it the reverse?

This reminds me of Lawrence Taylor in Any Given Sunday...
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[cougarfreak]

Is that why they're suing? Or are they suing because people in authority making judgments about his fitness to play prioritized getting him on the field vs. his long term health?

It's really easy from the comfort of our keyboards to say "Seau knew what he was doing - football is a violent sport!" But in the heat of battle on gamedays, he's going to do whatever he can to be a team player and be on the field. It's up to the team doctors, trainers & coaches to look at the bigger picture and hold out players that are too injured to be on the field.

What about doctors in college, high school, and pee wee? Can they show the damage was all done in the NFL? If my doctor doesn't specifically tell me that smoking causes lung cancer, and makes me quit smoking, does that make him libel even though I know it causes cancer? These guys know they're putting their health and well being at risk to make millions of dollars. I still can't believe these bullshit lawsuits are going anywhere.

[dawgfan]

What about doctors in college, high school, and pee wee? Can they show the damage was all done in the NFL? If my doctor doesn't specifically tell me that smoking causes lung cancer, and makes me quit smoking, does that make him libel even though I know it causes cancer? These guys know they're putting their health and well being at risk to make millions of dollars. I still can't believe these bullshit lawsuits are going anywhere.
Poor analogy. A better one would be you work in a place that has exposure to radiation. You know in general that radiation can be harmful to your health, but the specific levels of exposure are not necessarily something you know. Your place of work has experts that monitor your exposure, and you rely on them to inform you if your exposure is reaching dangerous levels.

[cougarfreak]

Poor analogy. A better one would be you work in a place that has exposure to radiation. You know in general that radiation can be harmful to your health, but the specific levels of exposure are not necessarily something you know. Your place of work has experts that monitor your exposure, and you rely on them to inform you if your exposure is reaching dangerous levels.

Why, because it sounds better for the players argument? Honestly, is there any evidence the NFL was covering up evidence that they knew there were dangers? NHL players have a suit going as well? I don't know? Any proof the concussions sustained at a young age weren't more damaging? And if I'm being paid millions of dollars, and that's my only skill, what other choice do I have?

[BishopMVP]

Honestly, is there any evidence the NFL was covering up evidence that they knew there were dangers?Actually, it'll be determined in the class-action suit, but it certainly appears that the NFL and Ira Casson was doing that in the early-mid 1990's, and the NFL Disability Board ruled in 1999 Mike Webster was disabled due to blows to the head, yet publicly took the opposite stance for a few years afterwards.

[molson]

I think everybody kind of knew that you could get "punch drunk" from repeated blows to the head, but it seems like a stretch that the NFL knew about the extent of the dangers of concussions before the general medical community.

[dawgfan]

Why, because it sounds better for the players argument?
Because it's a much closer analogy.

Honestly, is there any evidence the NFL was covering up evidence that they knew there were dangers?
Sure appears that way.

And if I'm being paid millions of dollars, and that's my only skill, what other choice do I have?
Not play.

[albionmoonlight]

CTE is a big deal. It's also a complicated issue. And it is not going away.

Aaron Hernandez Found to Have Severe C.T.E. - NYTimes.com (https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/21/sports/aaron-hernandez-cte-brain.html)

[albionmoonlight]

The gamechanger might be if they ever develop a test that they can perform on living folks. If kids in High School and College start knowing that they are developing this, I don't see how football survives.

[PilotMan]

I don't think it will. Participation is tanking at entry levels. 10 years from now it's not even going to be the same.

[dawgfan]

Perhaps it's because I pay next to no attention to hockey, but I find it rather interesting that there's almost no discussion of CTE on a national stage with regard to hockey or (to a lesser extent) soccer. I guess with soccer there have been reforms to eliminate headers in youth leagues, but I wonder what kind of efforts are being made to study possible CTE development in hockey players and what efforts that sport is/has made to reduce violent collisions?

As for football, I don't see it going away, but it is going to have to evolve as it did early in its history.

[CrescentMoonie]

Perhaps it's because I pay next to no attention to hockey, but I find it rather interesting that there's almost no discussion of CTE on a national stage with regard to hockey or (to a lesser extent) soccer. I guess with soccer there have been reforms to eliminate headers in youth leagues, but I wonder what kind of efforts are being made to study possible CTE development in hockey players and what efforts that sport is/has made to reduce violent collisions?

As for football, I don't see it going away, but it is going to have to evolve as it did early in its history.

Football has more concussions overall (47% of all reported concussions), but other sports have concussions as a higher percentage of overall injuries at the youth levels. Soccer, hockey, and basketball are all pretty bad, with girls having concussions at a higher rate than boys at that age.

Stats on Concussions </br> & Sports - Head Case - Complete Concussion Managements (http://www.headcasecompany.com/concussion_info/stats_on_concussions_sports)

Girls’ soccer, basketball players have higher concussion rates than male counterparts - The Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/recruiting-insider/wp/2017/03/27/girls-soccer-has-highest-concussion-rate-of-high-school-sports-study-finds/)

[Warhammer]

My question, has anyone checked other brains for this?

I have had 5 concussions, all between 8 and 16, two of which were significant. I played football one year. Plus, I have had my bell rung a number of times at work, getting up and banging my head against a pipe or metal shelf. When do I need to start worrying about this?

I am not saying we should not worry about this, but there are several other factors to consider:

1) players Ned to work on proper tackling technique rather than taking some one's head off.
2). There needs to be mandatory time off after a concussion. I know they are beginning to do this, but it needs universal enforcement.
3). This may seem counter-intuitive, get rid of helmets.

[Groundhog]

3). This may seem counter-intuitive, get rid of helmets.

I don't think it's counter-intuitive at all. They are basically weapons. Removing helmets would have to lead to other changes too though, I would think. Some of the in-air hits in particular.

[Logan]

Getting rid of helmets seems like a great idea until someone accidentally leads with their head out of habit and at least one of the people involved in the collision dies.

[Logan]

Perhaps it's because I pay next to no attention to hockey, but I find it rather interesting that there's almost no discussion of CTE on a national stage with regard to hockey or (to a lesser extent) soccer. I guess with soccer there have been reforms to eliminate headers in youth leagues, but I wonder what kind of efforts are being made to study possible CTE development in hockey players and what efforts that sport is/has made to reduce violent collisions?

As for football, I don't see it going away, but it is going to have to evolve as it did early in its history.

There's a lot less hitting in hockey than there used to be. They pretty much got rid of all hitting away from the puck and started calling more charging penalties (striding towards players without, or just after getting rid of, the puck).

They also instituted something called Rule 48 that you can Google. There are still issues of course but there are HoF players from the 90s who would need to have very different careers if they played now.

[CrescentMoonie]

Getting rid of helmets seems like a great idea until someone accidentally leads with their head out of habit and at least one of the people involved in the collision dies.

Implement it below a certain age, and increase that age every year until there's nobody left who has played with a helmet. That runs into a problem when you get to college/pro, but it gets people ready up to that point. Not sure when you make the switch for those other levels.

[JPhillips]

Watch a game and pay attention to how many times heads are hit with arms and legs or how many times heads bounce off the turf.

Now imagine the blood if nobody is wearing helmets.

[Groundhog]

Watch a game and pay attention to how many times heads are hit with arms and legs or how many times heads bounce off the turf.

Now imagine the blood if nobody is wearing helmets.

Now watch rugby. Obviously it's not apples to apples, and the concussion debate is happening in rugby too (albeit at a much lower volume, and prompted by the NFL debate), but the stuff you mention happens all the time. There are rules around what constitutes a legal tackle in rugby, and if helmets came off in American football it would have to be following some pretty major changes to tackling/hitting too.

[dawgfan]

My question, has anyone checked other brains for this?
Yes, CTE has been found in not just football players but rugby players, hockey players, soccer players, baseball players, boxers, MMA fighters, wrestlers, a BMX rider, bull riders and stunt men. Basically, any kind of activity where hard, repeated blows to the head occur may put you at risk.

[BishopMVP]

CTE is a big deal. It's also a complicated issue. And it is not going away.

Aaron Hernandez Found to Have Severe C.T.E. - NYTimes.com (https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/21/sports/aaron-hernandez-cte-brain.html)CTE is a serious issue, but it's not a get out of jail free card... guy was in gangs by 17, shot a guy and left him for dead while at Florida, did a ton of other alcohol/drugs as well, and was about to be outed for (allegedly) being gay. This lawsuit should be thrown out, and while I feel a little bad for the daughter the ex-fiancee should be in jail for being an accomplice.
Perhaps it's because I pay next to no attention to hockey, but I find it rather interesting that there's almost no discussion of CTE on a national stage with regard to hockey or (to a lesser extent) soccer. I guess with soccer there have been reforms to eliminate headers in youth leagues, but I wonder what kind of efforts are being made to study possible CTE development in hockey players and what efforts that sport is/has made to reduce violent collisions?There's a lot less hitting in hockey than there used to be. They pretty much got rid of all hitting away from the puck and started calling more charging penalties (striding towards players without, or just after getting rid of, the puck).

They also instituted something called Rule 48 that you can Google. There are still issues of course but there are HoF players from the 90s who would need to have very different careers if they played now.
The few notable potentially CTE related suicides in hockey were also enforcers & they've also basically eliminated fighting in hockey.

[Suicane75]

I'll say it till I'm blue in the face. Tackles only between the thigh and shoulders when head on, arms only. No leading with shoulders or helmets. It's really not that complicated to make it a safer game.

[AlexB]

Now watch rugby. Obviously it's not apples to apples, and the concussion debate is happening in rugby too (albeit at a much lower volume, and prompted by the NFL debate), but the stuff you mention happens all the time. There are rules around what constitutes a legal tackle in rugby, and if helmets came off in American football it would have to be following some pretty major changes to tackling/hitting too.

It would need to be helmets and pads that were taken away to make it safe - pads are too great a risk if the head isn't protected.

It would change the game significantly, and force people to learn to tackle more safely, and yes, like rugby.

The irony is that the tackle is a focus in rugby now at junior level, and there is a chance that kids will not play full contact until later than they currently do. I'm in two minds about whether this makes it safer: learning the correct technique at a young age has to better than trying to learn when older, when the players are bigger, heavier, faster and getting it wrong has a lot more risk.

[bhlloy]

The thing is, Rugby has no hits off the ball, no blocking and 99% of the tackles are coming from head on from a guy who is clearly trying to tackle you. Also they've taken out any contact at all with a player who is prone trying to field a kick or catch a high pass.

If you take helmets and pads away from football, you have to change the rules so much it's basically a different sport.

[CrescentMoonie]

CTE is a serious issue, but it's not a get out of jail free card... guy was in gangs by 17, shot a guy and left him for dead while at Florida, did a ton of other alcohol/drugs as well, and was about to be outed for (allegedly) being gay.

The few notable potentially CTE related suicides in hockey were also enforcers & they've also basically eliminated fighting in hockey.

Yes, but was Hernandez part of a gang by 17 in part due to brain trauma from injuries playing football growing up? I doubt it was the cause, but could it have been a contributing factor?

As for hockey, good call on that one. While I miss the line brawls and guys who would fight because it was their only skill, the game hasn't lost much with that part being scaled back significantly.

[Easy Mac]

The thing is, Rugby has no hits off the ball, no blocking and 99% of the tackles are coming from head on from a guy who is clearly trying to tackle you. Also they've taken out any contact at all with a player who is prone trying to field a kick or catch a high pass.

If you take helmets and pads away from football, you have to change the rules so much it's basically a different sport.

Does that mean we can finally have a pro Aussie Rules Football league here, because I would get season tickets.

[Logan]

Implement it below a certain age, and increase that age every year until there's nobody left who has played with a helmet. That runs into a problem when you get to college/pro, but it gets people ready up to that point. Not sure when you make the switch for those other levels.

Well, having tackle football for a bunch of 8 year olds playing without helmets is an even better way of ending youth football.

Do you have kids, BTW?

[Thomkal]

NFL will 'vigorously' contest claims of Aaron Hernandez family CTE lawsuit - CBSSports.com (https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-will-vigorously-contest-claims-of-aaron-hernandez-family-cte-lawsuit/)

[BishopMVP]

Yes, but was Hernandez part of a gang by 17 in part due to brain trauma from injuries playing football growing up? I doubt it was the cause, but could it have been a contributing factor?It sure as heck wasn't the fault of the NFL or the Patriots, but Bristol Pee-Wee football doesn't have deep pockets.

And yes, considering the multitude of ex-NFL players etc who have been diagnosed with CTE but managed to avoid murdering people, I'm quite willing to say it was other factors that predisposed Aaron Hernandez to his life choices.

(Though fwiw I actually believe the lawsuit was that the NFL & Patriots hid information or should have done more to tell Hernandez about the elevated risk of suicide for (potential) CTE sufferers. And thus deprived his daughter of $20 million worth of companionship from someone who was in jail for life.)