How does this violate copyright

[Easy Mac]

So Dish was planning to roll out a new feature that will automatically skip commercials on network TV. From what I understand, they would analyze primetime shows overnight, then push information to your DVR the next day for shows you recorded that automatically skip the commercials.

Fox has now filed suit, saying this infringes on copyrights.

How?

I could mildly understand if Dish were recording the shows, then pushing the shows out, sans commercials, to people's DVRs. But all their doing is recording the shows themselves, reviewing time codes for commercials, and pushing that information out to people's DVRs. If you want to watch a show earlier, you see commercials.

Unless I'm mistaken, Fox doesn't own the times that commercials start. They don't own the commercials. Dish isn't changing the actual content of the show, or reproducing the show.

How is this any different from me using the 30 second skip button on my Tivo?

I do this with every show. I run showanalyzer, it sets the times of the commercials, then it skips them whenever I watch them on my mediacenter. Am I violating copyright laws?

Fox sues Dish over ad-blocking feature; Dish fires back - latimes.com (http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-ct-fox-sues-dish-network-over-adblocking-feature-20120524,0,3654685.story)

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I think their argument is likely to be that the shows are what they are, including commercial breaks and that when you eliminate the breaks it changes the value of the product they promote.

Don't know how winnable the argument is though.

[molson]

Both sides seem to agree that they can't edit any part of the broadcast, including the commercials. Dish is saying that they're not editing anything, the ads are preserved, they're just "hidden".

[wade moore]

Did someone at Dish actually think they could do this without a lawsuit?

[chadritt]

When you mentioned that you did this for yourself in the other thread I wondered if it was legal. Guess its time to find out. My guess is that its along the lines of how you cant rebroadcast a baseball game without MLBs permission, Dish doesnt have permission to do this and they would NEVER get it even if theyd bothered to ask. Also they probably have a pretty detailed contract with the networks that would forbid this.

[Ksyrup]

Is this service all that necessary to fight over? I'm perfectly happy and capable to manually skip over commercials. In fact, it gives me a perverse sort of pleasure. With this sevice, I'm actually losing out on the fun of zipping past commercials they want me to watch.

[chadritt]

Both sides seem to agree that they can't edit any part of the broadcast, including the commercials. Dish is saying that they're not editing anything, the ads are preserved, they're just "hidden".

Dish seems to not understand the meaning of the word edit.

[Logan]

Is this service all that necessary to fight over? I'm perfectly happy and capable to manually skip over commercials. In fact, it gives me a perverse sort of pleasure. With this sevice, I'm actually losing out on the fun of zipping past commercials they want me to watch.

Thankfully I'm about to FINALLY get rid of Time Warner, but their DVRs are so shitty when it comes to capacity that I would love to have those 8 mins/30 min show of extra space.

[Ksyrup]

I guess I could see that. I've got 2 DTV DVRs and a shit-ton of stuff on them, and we're still not even at half capacity. And that includes, as of today, about 20-something college softball games for my daughter to watch. With more to record this weekend and next. I bet I'll still be over 40% capacity left.

[gstelmack]

Dish seems to not understand the meaning of the word edit.

My guess is they are still storing the whole show, they just are choosing not to play it back. I'm sure their lawyers had fun working with the tech folks to figure out how exactly to do this while being able to argue with a straight face that they aren't "editing".

Basically they're implementing an automatic 30-second skip at the right times.

[SteveMax58]

I'm usually pretty biased on these disputes due to being on the service provider side but I can understand the content owners dispute here since it directly impacts the commercials. And I imagine they are worried about their advertising dollars going away.

But I'll be honest...you only see this type of stuff happening more & more because of the exorbitant costs to carry their content (i.e. better to ask for forgiveness than permission) & the really competitive business its produced. Even though it sounds like a small feature...its a highly competitive marketplace right now & every service provider is trying to one-up the competition in any & all features they can (big or small).

[Barkeep49]

What I hope is shown to be legal is Aereo (Aereo | Home (https://aereo.com/home))

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Is this service all that necessary to fight over? I'm perfectly happy and capable to manually skip over commercials. In fact, it gives me a perverse sort of pleasure. With this sevice, I'm actually losing out on the fun of zipping past commercials they want me to watch.

I'm with you on this. I even occasionally go back & watch a commercial if the woman in it is one that makes me say "mmmmmm... that's nice."

[RendeR]

I don't see how Fox has an argument at all. They aren't affecting the actual broadcast, they are only skipping time ina recorded (perfectly legally recorded) episode of something.

The broadcast networks aren't being paid adverti9sing dollars for people watching the recorded shows because they all KNOW no one watches the commercials then anyway.

Fox is at best trying to raise hell in an effort to look important and perhaps in the long term end DVR availability at all. Thereby forcing people to watch their programming at the scheduled times.

[stevew]

I'm pretty sure it's been supported multiple times on this board(and in multiple threads) that some crazy high percentage of people with DVRs watch commercials. Maybe up to like 50%, but most certainly not 0%.

Hell, I have to be in the 99th percentile of tech literate and I still invariably watch a few commercials per show. Even with a 30 second TiVo skip.

[sabotai]

Every time I watch a recorded show, I watch the commercials. Every time I watch something live, I try to fast forward through the commercials.

[chadritt]

I don't see how Fox has an argument at all. They aren't affecting the actual broadcast, they are only skipping time ina recorded (perfectly legally recorded) episode of something.

The broadcast networks aren't being paid adverti9sing dollars for people watching the recorded shows because they all KNOW no one watches the commercials then anyway.

Fox is at best trying to raise hell in an effort to look important and perhaps in the long term end DVR availability at all. Thereby forcing people to watch their programming at the scheduled times.

The broadcast networks absolutely are being paid advertising dollars for people watching on DVR, as someone mentioned a lot of people dont skip all the commercials. They actually get viewing number of DVRs for exactly this reason. Also, more than likely, their agreement with DISH is fairly clear about what constitutes a legal broadcast and what doesnt.