Student denied dipolma due to excessive cheering at graduation?

[cougarfreak]

Popular senior denied diploma because of too much cheering (http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/local_news/popular-senior-denied-diploma-because-of-too-much-cheering)

This just seems totally asinine to me.

[rowech]

Every year it gets worse and worse. It's the only recourse. People are hooting and hollering when kids walk across the stage, then other families can't hear their kids names called, so the people wait to read the next name, then the next family hoots and hollers, and the next thing you know you're at a graduation that lasts 4-5 hours.

I'm 100% on board with this. It's become excessive beyond all belief.

[JonInMiddleGA]

This one made the rounds in today's Atlanta newspaper edu-blogger as well. The part that gets me is the attempt to get 20 hrs community service from someone who didn't do anything.

Powertrip much?

[rowech]

I do think 20 hours is a bit excessive but something has to be done to get this to stop.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I do think 20 hours is a bit excessive but something has to be done to get this to stop.

But in this case they specifically went after someone who wasn't part of the noise.

If they want to go after the spectators for, I dunno, disturbing the peace or disorderly conduct or whatever, they're welcome to have that fight I suppose. But to set a precedent where you hold a minor* responsible for the conduct of adults? Really poorly conceived.

*regardless of the age of the student in this instance, there's no shortage of 17 year olds who walk in graduation ceremonies

[Logan]

Are we talking about literally denying him his diploma, or his actual ability to graduate?

[JediKooter]

Flex those muscles school administrators. Never seen more 'short mans disease' than I have when it comes to school administrators and school boards.

It's graduation for fucks sake, not a funeral.

[Blackadar]

Every year it gets worse and worse. It's the only recourse. People are hooting and hollering when kids walk across the stage, then other families can't hear their kids names called, so the people wait to read the next name, then the next family hoots and hollers, and the next thing you know you're at a graduation that lasts 4-5 hours.

I'm 100% on board with this. It's become excessive beyond all belief.

I understand the noise thing because you're right, it does get excessive. But in this case they're trying to punish someone who wasn't responsible. As such, fuck the small dicked principal. If they student goes to court, the school will lose and lose big. Did they fine and suspend the teachers who cheered? How about the other students who cheered - did they wade into the audience and take back their diplomas? Heck, if I'm mean-spirited and want to fuck up my neighbor's kid, all I have to do is cheer when he crosses the stage and he's punished?

It's a dumb fucking policy. It's one thing to ask. It's another thing to try to enforce it.

[rowech]

But in this case they specifically went after someone who wasn't part of the noise.

If they want to go after the spectators for, I dunno, disturbing the peace or disorderly conduct or whatever, they're welcome to have that fight I suppose. But to set a precedent where you hold a minor* responsible for the conduct of adults? Really poorly conceived.

*regardless of the age of the student in this instance, there's no shortage of 17 year olds who walk in graduation ceremonies

There was a woman arsted in NC I think for the same thing.

I understand it sucks for the kid and I can guarantee they would rather be able to do something different so if anyone has ideas submit them.

As for the "it's a graduation" philosophy go to a random graduation in your area for a class of say 300 students and then tell me you don't walk away from it with a different opinion. The cheering that goes on and the disruptions that occur are nothing but plain rude in every way. I have seen literally a two minute explosion of cow bells, noise makers, etc for a kid. Literally brought the graduation to a stand still for the glorification of some kid.

Save that stuff for later.

[GrantDawg]

Are we talking about literally denying him his diploma, or his actual ability to graduate?


Literally his diploma. He has already walked, which was where the problem was. :)

I think removing them from the graduation was enough. 20 hours of community services is over the line (especially on the kid doing it. What the heck did he do, but finish school?).

[Izulde]

Something tells me nobody cheered for the principal when they graduated high school and that's what this shit is really all about.

[cartman]

It wouldn't have been a problem at all if they were just chanting "USA! USA! USA!"

[Glengoyne]

Yeah....usher them off the stage out of the ceremony, don't hand them anything. Embarrass the hell out of them, make them wait a week whatever.

Community service. No chance.

That said. I was at a graduation last night, and there were signs at the entrance about no noise makers and making sure that the other families around you could hear their graduate's names.

Two air horns were sounded, and the rest of the crowd responded with boos in both instances. The horns and the resulting boos meant that multiple names were announced without any real chance of being heard. Not to mention that those kids got booed.

There were still frequent cheers that drowned out names. So while everyone was willing to denounce those who blatantly broke the rules, many were still self centered enough to rationalize loud yells.

There was one name I was wanting to hear, an ex-coworker's child, who I didn't even know was graduating. I couldn't remember her daughter's name, and it was inaudible to me. It doesn't seem like much, but it was pretty annoying. If my nephew's name had been one of the ones drowned out by boos, I think I would have been really disappointed.

[GrantDawg]

Are we talking about literally denying him his diploma, or his actual ability to graduate?


You want school board drama? Check our school system (directly related to the high school my daughter goes to):

Newton Citizen | Meadors awaits guidance from attorneys (http://www.newtoncitizen.com/news/2012/jun/05/meadors-awaits-guidance-from-attorneys/)

Newton Citizen | Alcovy principal names school board member in lawsuit (http://www.newtoncitizen.com/news/2012/jun/04/alcovy-principal-names-school-board-member-in/)

Newton Citizen | Letter: Free speech must be defended (http://www.newtoncitizen.com/news/2012/may/24/0525_blackletter/)

http://www.newtoncitizen.com/news/2012/apr/26/alcovy-principal-sues-over-website-comments/

Basically, a worthless principal that's husband is in charge of HR for the schools is suing everyone that has criticized her in the paper. Not being happy with that, she is also suing a school board member claiming he behind all of the criticism. He of course isn't. Her lack of control of the school is the problem, along with the strong-arm tactics she has used against teachers. In this horrible economy, and as hard it is to get teaching positions in the state, she has teachers quitting without having jobs in hand to get away from her. It is a nightmare.

[Glengoyne]

It wouldn't have been a problem at all if they were just chanting "USA! USA! USA!"

Nicely played.

[Toddzilla]

Why not just turn up the volume on the PR system? I've been to a Metallica concert and you couldn't hear shit when they were playing.

[Subby]

Or alternately, use powerpoint to display each name on a screen behind the ceremony...

[johnnyshaka]

Or, do the ceremonies behind closed doors and broadcast it live on Youtube!!

[johnnyshaka]

Mt. Healthy Schools: Student's family cheering was excessive (http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/local_news/mt-healthy-schools-students-family-should-do-the-right-thing)

The mother says she doesn't remember signing any agreement or policy for attending the ceremony, but if she did then she certainly didn't read it. And then goes on to say that she posted on Facebook that she was surprised they weren't asked to leave after how much support they showed.

That's some responsible parenting and setting a great example...ignore the rules...get called on it...then get the media involved and likely line a few lawyers' pockets, too. Quality parenting, for sure.

[ISiddiqui]

I imagine its one of those cases where some jerks ruin it for everyone. You have some ridiculous graduation celebrants to grind everything to a standstill and now everyone has to deal with this stuff.

[JonInMiddleGA]

There was a woman arsted in NC I think for the same thing.

SC (if we're talking about the same case), although more specifically she was arrested for disorderly conduct after she was asked to leave/being escorted from the building.

I understand it sucks for the kid and I can guarantee they would rather be able to do something different so if anyone has ideas submit them.

Absent evidence to the contrary, I disagree re: they would rather do something different. This seems like a standard educrat power trip to me.

Literally brought the graduation to a stand still for the glorification of some kid.

Umm, what else is graduation other than a glorification of some kids?

Look, I'll gladly shove an airhorn where the sun doesn't shine for anyone redneck enough to bring one to graduation ... but the notion that it's some sort of solemn occasion as opposed to what it is: an endurance exercise for both participants & spectators who are anxiously awaiting its end, well, that just doesn't register on the realitymeter.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Why not just turn up the volume on the PR system? I've been to a Metallica concert and you couldn't hear shit when they were playing.

You do have a point here.

[Passacaglia]

"And I'll be damned if we're going to serve the community!!!"

[Autumn]

Umm, what else is graduation other than a glorification of some kids?

Well, but the difference is important there. It's a glorification of all the kids graduating, not just one of them. And that's a difference that I think a lot of people don't seem to get any more. God forbid you ask anyone to do anything at all for the common good. This is the sort of issue we're supposed to help elementary school kids understand, but now we're stuck trying to teach it to supposed adults.

I was just at an elementary school concert where there were a number of kids who as soon as they were done performing walked back to sit with their families and talk really loudly over all the other performances. This seems to me the same thing. "What, I'm done performing, why would anyone care about anything else?"

[stevew]

I dunno how big his "family'" can be, but it would be hilarious if he could get like 100 cousins together and they each could do 12 minutes of community service.

No wonder educators are under assault.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Well, but the difference is important there. It's a glorification of all the kids graduating, not just one of them.

Of which the typical attendee gives the slightest damn about 1 of, maybe a small handful on the far edge of the spectrum.

[rowech]

I'll have to bump this thread in 10 years when everyone starts to be old enough to have kids graduating and see if many of you all feel the same way.

[molson]

I hate graduation ceremonies.

That's my contribution.

[Blackadar]

I'll have to bump this thread in 10 years when everyone starts to be old enough to have kids graduating and see if many of you all feel the same way.

No need to bump it in 10 years. Some of us already know. :D

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'll have to bump this thread in 10 years when everyone starts to be old enough to have kids graduating and see if many of you all feel the same way.

You do realize that a lot of us have been going to graduations fairly regularly all the way back to our own, right? Relatives, very close friends, etc, yadda yadda. Pretty sure it's not as though we aren't familiar with the scenario.

I've seen overboard plenty of times -- teeth grindingly somebody-needs-an-ass-whooping sort of overboard -- but at the same time the faux solemnity about graduations is fairly offputting as well.

And instances like this do nothing to help put the genie back in the bottle, if anything they make even the worse behaved audience members seem more reasonable.

[stevew]

Watching the video-

That dude's mom is really young.

[molson]

I'll have to bump this thread in 10 years when everyone starts to be old enough to have kids graduating and see if many of you all feel the same way.

It will be hard to compare since things evolve. I (annoyingly) had a junior high school graduation ceremony and I remember all the parents being offended or whatever at one kid that did an exaggerated fist-pump after he got his "diploma". Now, I've guess they've upped the ante and some parents react to their kids graduating from high school like they just won the mega millions lottery. Where can we go in 10 years? Celebratory gunfire? Fucking in the aisles?

Not that they should play games with the kids' diploma or anything, but, it sounds like there's a lot of assholes at these things.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Celebratory gunfire?

Umm, actually ....

[markprior22]

Was at my sons graduation a couple of weeks ago and one guy jumped up with a camera while the kids were filing in and was moving quickly backwards with the camera to stay in front of his kid (or whoever it was) as he walked in. He then let out a yell...shot his arm in the air and just about ran over a couple of girls next in line. My first thought was "it's all about you huh buddy." I noticed him moving around quite a bit during the ceremony too. Very distracting.

I was at a graduation last year where the students snuck in a bunch of balls and balloons under their gowns. They would batting one or two back and forth and an administrator would have to go deal with it. Then, out would come another. I really enjoyed that even though it was distracting also. I guess I found it funny rather than selfish and it was something the kids decided to do (at least quite a few had to be in on it). Also watching the teachers running around trying to get a handle on it was hilarious. Guess I'm a hypocrite.

[spleen1015]

I imagine the cheering for every kid when there are 1000 kids can get pretty bad. When my son graduated last year, they sad no cheering, but people cheered and the announcer waited for the cheering to be done before saying the next name.

Just let people cheer. Who cares if it takes 6 hours?

[stevew]

Clearly the name announcers need to realize that an ounce of bitch during the ceremony can save a pound of cunt(the letter) later.

[Noop]

Does it make me racist if I knew that there was a black family involved?

[Marc Vaughan]

Errr surely if you have a ceremony with family/friends etc. asked to attend then you expect cheering and celebration - if you don't want that then you don't have such a ceremony ...

Truly bizarre (in the UK I 'graduated' from High School by simply completing my classes and going home - that was it, kinda surprised to see how carried away people get in America for these things tbh).

[JediKooter]

Errr surely if you have a ceremony with family/friends etc. asked to attend then you expect cheering and celebration - if you don't want that then you don't have such a ceremony ...

Truly bizarre (in the UK I 'graduated' from High School by simply completing my classes and going home - that was it, kinda surprised to see how carried away people get in America for these things tbh).

Trust me, with how many stupid people live here in this country, it's quite an achievement. ;)

[johnnyshaka]

Errr surely if you have a ceremony with family/friends etc. asked to attend then you expect cheering and celebration - if you don't want that then you don't have such a ceremony ...

Truly bizarre (in the UK I 'graduated' from High School by simply completing my classes and going home - that was it, kinda surprised to see how carried away people get in America for these things tbh).

Wait a second there, Mister Man, didn't I just see some sort of celebration for some old broad being a queen for 60 years or something silly like that plastered all over the TV last night? :p

[GrantDawg]

Does it make me racist if I knew that there was a black family involved?


No, but it makes me one. :)

[Autumn]

Of which the typical attendee gives the slightest damn about 1 of, maybe a small handful on the far edge of the spectrum.

So what? That's my exact point. If you're in 2nd grade it makes sense to ruin everybody else's moment because you care more about your moment. When you're graduating high school, or your kid is, we should be asking more of that. For you, it's all about your kid. But the event is not all about you. The lack of comprehension of that is one of the big problems in our society I think. This is no different than cutting past a line of people because you don't want to have to wait. It's kindergarten level.

[Noop]

No, but it makes me one. :)

Lol. It shouldn't make you racist.

[Matthean]

I watched the clip of the graduation when he went across. I really don't get the school's position in this.

[Young Drachma]

You do realize that a lot of us have been going to graduations fairly regularly all the way back to our own, right? Relatives, very close friends, etc, yadda yadda. Pretty sure it's not as though we aren't familiar with the scenario.

I've seen overboard plenty of times -- teeth grindingly somebody-needs-an-ass-whooping sort of overboard -- but at the same time the faux solemnity about graduations is fairly offputting as well.

And instances like this do nothing to help put the genie back in the bottle, if anything they make even the worse behaved audience members seem more reasonable.

I was going to go on a rant, but instead I'll just +1.

[Young Drachma]

Red Sox Draft Pick Not Allowed To Walk At HS Graduation After Skipping Rehearsal To Negotiate Contract (http://deadspin.com/5916307/red-sox-draft-pick-not-allowed-to-walk-at-hs-graduation-after-skipping-rehearsal-to-negotiate-contract?popular=true)

[bronconick]

All I need to know about overzealous school administrators I was able to understand from comparing my graduation ceremony in HS and college. Sure, we're all more mature in college, but it was literally "Guy walks in, says walk here, pause while this guy who's going to try to fleece you for $280 pictures takes a snapshot, walk across the stage, shake hand, take diploma, go back to seat."

High School was 3 hours of rehearsal complete with bitter old man teachers threatening that none of us would walk if we didn't do this, if we did that, if someone did an airhorn when we walked they wouldn't send our diploma in the mail (blanks at the actual ceremony) and so on. Bad enough that you're putting up with it to make your mother happy, basically.

[Buccaneer]

We went to my son's Jr High charter school graduation last week. About 80 graduates, each with their name called. They said no cheering since they read the names fairly quickly (every 5-7 seconds). No one cheered but it wasn't the type of audience that would anyway (yes, many different races).

[Scoobz0202]

Pardon my ignorance, but like, how can you be denied a diploma for something like this? Legally. Is this just saying that technically you're graduated, and can go to college, but just won't have the paper, or is this something more?

Because at 18, I could have given two fucks about the piece of paper. I was ready for a summer of booze and then on to college. If they want my piece of paper, they could have had it. But, that was just me, obviously.

[stevew]

High School was 3 hours of rehearsal complete with bitter old man teachers threatening that none of us would walk if we didn't do this, if we did that, if someone did an airhorn when we walked they wouldn't send our diploma in the mail (blanks at the actual ceremony) and so on. Bad enough that you're putting up with it to make your mother happy, basically.
Oh yeah. I still remember them being bitchy at our school.

[chadritt]

"Legally, he has graduated and he will receive his diploma," Handler said. "That's not an issue at all...This is just a rule, an expectation that we set and we expect the parents to follow through on it."

It sounds like he just wont receive the piece of paper. That probably means far more to the parents than to him.

[DougW]

20 hours of community service to receive his diploma ? That's harsh. What I think they should have done, was have the principal take the diploma out back and empty a clip into it - then rant about how cheering is getting out of hand and post it on Youtube.

[Matthean]

Are the teachers who were suppose to be cheering along going to be punished an any way?

[Logan]

Ask me where my diploma is.

I think the bigger problem when it comes to graduation etiquette is when families literally get up and leave after their kid's name is called.

[JonInMiddleGA]

High School was 3 hours of rehearsal complete with bitter old man teachers threatening that none of us would walk if we didn't do this, if we did that, if someone did an airhorn when we walked they wouldn't send our diploma in the mail (blanks at the actual ceremony) and so on. Bad enough that you're putting up with it to make your mother happy, basically.

I didn't realize we graduated together, small world.


(Actually they didn't use blanks at mine, but they used the threat)

[bhlloy]

Truly bizarre (in the UK I 'graduated' from High School by simply completing my classes and going home - that was it, kinda surprised to see how carried away people get in America for these things tbh).

Which is a fact I'm eternally grateful for. I don't think I've seen 90% of my year since the last big exam we were all in and that's a good thing as well. Definitely don't understand the big fascination about graduation, a few of us just went to the pub and got hammered. Sounds much better to me :D

[JonInMiddleGA]

So what? That's my exact point. If you're in 2nd grade it makes sense to ruin everybody else's moment because you care more about your moment.

If the excessive noise "ruins everybody else's moment" then that lies more with piss poor planning on the part of those administering the event than anything else.

I'm not talking about theory here, I'm talking about reality.

You said "It's a glorification of all the kids graduating, not just one of them. ", my point is that generally speaking nobody cares whether the rest of those kids graduating lives, dies, fucks or flies. They're at best meaningless, more likely an annoyance to be endured. Now you can tilt at that windmill if you want, but that's the reality ... and no amount of posturing by educrats is going to change that.

People will, as illustrated in this case, do what they choose to do in the absence of any authority with the clout to prevent it. School officials don't even come close to having that authority. They can railroad the kids right through graduation but they lack the reach to do that with adults, and cases like this one make attempts even less sympathetic.

This is no different than cutting past a line of people because you don't want to have to wait.

The difference is that cutting those lines may get your ass kicked, less likely at graduation (although not unheard of, I've seen a couple of confrontations break out over this sort of thing).

[Dutch]

I cheered like a mutherfucker for my son the other day when he graduated...but so did everybody else for their kids...and the principal told us not too. The principal seemed to have a great time on stage shaking everybody's hand as they walked by and giving random hugs and high-fives. Different strokes for different folks.

[KWhit]

These school officials are being total idiots.

When I heard about this story, I figured this must have been really egregious and lasted 3-4 minutes or something based on the punishment.

Nope. I just watched it and the yelling lasted for about 15 seconds and then one person seemed to holler something a couple of seconds later. It was all over in under 20 seconds. Big fucking deal.

[Dutch]

These school officials are being total idiots.

When I heard about this story, I figured this must have been really egregious and lasted 3-4 minutes or something based on the punishment.

Nope. I just watched it and the yelling lasted for about 15 seconds and then one person seemed to holler something a couple of seconds later. It was all over in under 20 seconds. Big fucking deal.

Yeah, it seemed harmless. The only thing that I could think would make it bad is if *everybody* else was totally silent, but I seriously doubt that.

[Autumn]

If the excessive noise "ruins everybody else's moment" then that lies more with piss poor planning on the part of those administering the event than anything else.

I'm not talking about theory here, I'm talking about reality.

You said "It's a glorification of all the kids graduating, not just one of them. ", my point is that generally speaking nobody cares whether the rest of those kids graduating lives, dies, fucks or flies. They're at best meaningless, more likely an annoyance to be endured. Now you can tilt at that windmill if you want, but that's the reality ... and no amount of posturing by educrats is going to change that.

People will, as illustrated in this case, do what they choose to do in the absence of any authority with the clout to prevent it. School officials don't even come close to having that authority. They can railroad the kids right through graduation but they lack the reach to do that with adults, and cases like this one make attempts even less sympathetic.


As far as I can tell we're in agreement. This is what people will do. My point is that they're immature dickwads, and more than that, symptomatic of a major problem in America. But yes, I agree, nobody gives a shit about the rest of the class and they will act in an immature, selfish manner no matter what anyone does about it.

[Ben E Lou]

In 17 years of vocational youth ministry, I went to my share of graduations, and just about everyone else's, too. ;) Most years I went to at least two for YL, and maybe every other year or so I had to attend a "personal" one of they type Jon mentions. They were all over the place on this issue, even in the same county in the same school year. In fact, probably the most stark contrast I ever saw was between Tucker and Lakeside in DeKalb County. The contrast was particularly noticeable because the two schools had fairly similar demographics, were located only 5 miles apart, were in the same school system, and usually held their graduations on back to back days--THS on Friday night, and LHS on Saturday morning. The last 10ish years I was with YL, I usually went to those two. They both usually graduated 250-350 kids. Tucker's took 2+ hours, sometimes over 3, while Lakeside was outta there in 35-45 minutes.

At Tucker's, they didn't bother at all with saying "no hooting and hollering;" they just waited while it went on, then announced the next name when it died down. There were air horns. Many people left once they saw the person walk that they came there to see. It was the epitome of a "rude and crude" graduation.

Lakeside, on the other hand, was as quiet as could be. No cheering, no leaving, names called VERY fast, kids walked across the stage maybe 4-5 feet apart. It was like graduation assembly line. They made an announcement beforehand and it was in the written program that there would be no noise while names were called, and people followed that rule. I'm not sure what would have happened if someone hadn't.

So, having seen both extremes on this, I honestly don't have much of a preference. THS's was a fun party, but it was also sure nice to be in and out so quickly at LHS, too. :)

If you DO insist on enforcing this sort of mandate, it seems that what they did at Shaw's graduation in Columbus would be the way to go. You come with an outburst, and you get escorted off the premises by Columbus's finest, and you don't get to participate in the post-graduation reception.

But punishing the KID??? I would argue that might not even be a "power-trip" deal. That's just plain dumb.

[rowech]

Look forward to the high school graduation of this group in 12-13 years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrBNZGVRTOY

I love hearing the little kids screaming and crying in the background. Really wonderful.

[dawgfan]

Look forward to the high school graduation of this group in 12-13 years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrBNZGVRTOY

I love hearing the little kids screaming and crying in the background. Really wonderful.
That's setting some fantastic examples right there...