The FOFC Keeper League 2012 [Archive] - Front Office Football Central

Lathum

06-14-2012, 10:07 AM

All On Black- Available
Arian Foster RB HOU
Mark Ingram RB NO
Kevin Smith RB DET
Beanie Wells RB ARI
Antonio Brown WR PIT
Plaxico Burress WR NYJ
Andre Johnson WR HOU
Mario Manningham WR SF
Denarius Moore WR OAK
Carson Palmer QB OAK
Matt Schaub QB HOU
Rob Gronkowski TE NE
David Akers K SF
Detroit Lions TM DET

Gridiron Warriors-PackerFanatic
Frank Gore RB SF
Fred Jackson RB BUF
James Starks RB GB
Daniel Thomas RB MIA
Vincent Brown WR SD
Eric Decker WR DEN
Malcom Floyd WR SD
Jabar Gaffney WR NE
Greg Jennings WR GB
Aaron Rodgers QB GB
Alex Smith QB SF
Jermichael Finley TE GB
Matt Prater K DEN
Chicago Bears TM CHI

The FOFC All Stars- SamiFan24
Donald Brown RB IND
Jamaal Charles RB KC
Darren McFadden RB OAK
DeMarco Murray RB DAL
Pierre Garcon WR WAS
Lance Moore WR NO
Roddy White WR ATL
Joe Flacco QB BAL
Philip Rivers QB SD
Owen Daniels TE HOU
Brandon Pettigrew TE DET
Stephen Gostkowski K NE
San Francisco 49ers TM SF
Baltimore Ravens TM BAL

Callous Doughboys-JAG
Michael Bush RB CHI
Ryan Mathews RB SD
Ray Rice RB BAL
Ben Tate RB HOU
Dez Bryant WR DAL
A. J. Green WR CIN
Calvin Johnson WR DET
Laurent Robinson WR JAC
Matthew Stafford QB DET
Tim Tebow QB NYJ
Aaron Hernandez TE NE
John Kasay K NO
New England Patriots TM NE
Seattle Seahawks TM SEA

Vicks Heros- Available
Matt Forte RB CHI
Steven Jackson RB STL
Darren Sproles RB NO
DeAngelo Williams RB CAR
Miles Austin WR DAL
Steve Breaston WR KC
Stevie Johnson WR BUF
Santana Moss WR WAS
Jerome Simpson WR MIN
Wes Welker WR NE
Mike Williams WR TB
Tom Brady QB NE
Nick Novak K SD
Green Bay Packers TM

The Insomniacs- available
Delone Carter RB IND
BenJarvus Green-Ellis RB CIN
Shonn Greene RB NYJ
Pierre Thomas RB NO
Ryan Torain RB WAS
Anquan Boldin WR BAL
DeSean Jackson WR PHI
Michael Jenkins WR MIN
Steve Smith WR CAR
Nate Washington WR TEN
Eli Manning QB NYG
Fred Davis TE WAS
Matt Bryant K ATL
Cincinnati Bengals TM CIN

Sals Transgenders- Saldana
Ahmad Bradshaw RB NYG
Reggie Bush RB MIA
Michael Crabtree WR SF
Percy Harvin WR MIN
Vincent Jackson WR TB
James Jones WR GB
Reggie Wayne WR IND
Jake Locker QB TEN
Peyton Manning QB DEN
Colt McCoy QB CLE
Vernon Davis TE SF
Robbie Gould K CHI
New York Jets TM NYJ
Tennessee Titans TM TEN

Houston Hippopotami- SterlingiceJahvid Best RB DET
Kendall Hunter RB SF
Felix Jones RB DAL
Marshawn Lynch RB SEA
LeSean McCoy RB PHI
Marques Colston WR NO
Larry Fitzgerald WR ARI
Brandon Marshall WR CHI
Demaryius Thomas WR DEN
Damian Williams WR TEN
Drew Brees QB NO
Mark Sanchez QB NYJ
Mason Crosby K GB
Denver Broncos TM DEN

Shakas Big Shooters- MollyMurphy
Toby Gerhart RB MIN
Adrian Peterson RB MIN
C. J. Spiller RB BUF
Jonathan Stewart RB CAR
Michael Turner RB ATL
Dwayne Bowe WR KC
Kenny Britt WR TEN
Nate Burleson WR DET
Riley Cooper WR PHI
Julio Jones WR ATL
Matt Hasselbeck QB TEN
Michael Vick QB PHI
Alex Henery K PHI
Atlanta Falcons TM ATL

Southside Roughnecks- available
Marion Barber RB CHI
Cedric Benson RB CIN
Ryan Grant RB GB
Mike Tolbert RB CAR
Doug Baldwin WR SEA
Austin Collie WR IND
Early Doucet WR ARI
Devery Henderson WR NO
Jeremy Maclin WR PHI
Torrey Smith WR BAL
Cam Newton QB CAR
Ben Roethlisberger QB PIT
Sebastian Janikowski K OAK
Philadelphia Eagles TM PHI

Touchdown MAfia- Spleen
Roy Helu RB WAS
Maurice Jones-Drew RB JAC
Willis McGahee RB DEN
Rashard Mendenhall RB PIT
Victor Cruz WR NYG
Brandon Lloyd WR NE
Jordy Nelson WR GB
Ryan Fitzpatrick QB BUF
Matt Ryan QB ATL
Antonio Gates TE SD
Jimmy Graham TE NO
Dan Bailey K DAL
Dallas Cowboys TM DAL
Houston Texans TM HOU

Lathums Brew Crew- Lathum
LeGarrette Blount RB TB
Brandon Jacobs RB SF
Chris Johnson RB TEN
Deion Branch WR NE
Hakeem Nicks WR NYG
Mike Wallace WR PIT
Jay Cutler QB CHI
Andy Dalton QB CIN
Tony Romo QB DAL
Tony Gonzalez TE ATL
Jason Hanson K DET
Neil Rackers K WAS
Oakland Raiders TM OAK
Pittsburgh Steelers TM PIT

JAG

06-14-2012, 10:15 AM

Again, Callous Dowboys will be back.

Also, because I had to dig for this info, here are the off-season trading rules we agreed to last season:

Off-Season Trade Rules
-Trades involving your current roster will be allowed as soon as the Championship game has been completed and until keepers are announced for the next season. The keeper announcement signifies the start of a new season.
-Players may be traded for players, draft picks, or players and picks.
-Any player received in a trade automatically becomes a keeper at their position for their new team.
-When becoming one of the teams keepers, the player will have one year of service counted against the limit.
-If a player is "unkeepable" (meaning he has already been kept 3 times by the same team), he is not allowed to be traded in the offseason.

saldana

06-14-2012, 10:46 AM

me and my uber-craptastic team will be back

spleen1015

06-14-2012, 11:27 AM

I'm coming back.

Lathum

06-14-2012, 11:34 AM

Ok, Lets see who is returning as first order of business

I am in. Spleen, Jag, and Packerfanatic are also back based on their post in the 2011 thread.

I am assuming Johnny is still out. My wife was next in line for a team so unless anyone has issues with her being an owner she is in for his team.

Returning

1. Lathum- Lathums Brew Crew
2. Packerfanatic-Gridiron Warriors
3. Spleen- Touchdown Mafia
4. MollyMurphy ( pending approval)- Shakas Big Shooters
5. JAG- Callous Doughboys
6. Saldana-Sals Trangenders
7. samifan- The FOFC All Stars
8. Sterlingice-Houston Hippopotimi

Not returning-

CubBoyRoy
Eaglefan27
TLK
MikeVic

Alternates
1. CarmenBulldog
2. Danny
3. NTN Deacon
4. Grover

ntndeacon

06-14-2012, 11:41 AM

I don't know how long the alternate list is, but go ahead and put me on it for whenever there are enough openings.

samifan24

06-14-2012, 11:45 AM

I'm back

PackerFanatic

06-14-2012, 11:57 AM

Definitely back - and I will come up with a different, probably just-as-craptastic, team name :)

saldana

06-14-2012, 12:04 PM

Definitely back - and I will come up with a different, probably just-as-craptastic, team name :)

i am thinking of going with "Sal's Supershittyworstbunchoffantasyplayersever"

Lathum

06-14-2012, 12:22 PM

updated through Samifan with NTN deacon as an alternate

Lathum

06-19-2012, 08:46 AM

bump for those we havrnt heard from.

I'll pm them soon if we dont hear from them

claphamsa

06-19-2012, 07:37 PM

im down

Lathum

06-19-2012, 07:38 PM

im down

are you saying you want to be an alternate?

sterlingice

06-21-2012, 05:39 AM

Sorry, guys- still caught up in the whole moving thing so I haven't been back to FOFC for a bit. I'll be back.

SI

Lathum

06-21-2012, 02:57 PM

Sorry, guys- still caught up in the whole moving thing so I haven't been back to FOFC for a bit. I'll be back.

SI

figured as much, hope the move went well

sterlingice

06-21-2012, 08:35 PM

Yes, it turns out living in the same city as one's wife is a good thing :)

(I'm sure that will illicit no jokes)

Oh, and did I mention: weddings in Chicago and Omaha the next two weekends so no time to relax even, really.

SI

spleen1015

06-21-2012, 09:10 PM

cubboyroy1826

06-30-2012, 12:20 AM

Sorry guys but I will not be back this year.

Lathum

06-30-2012, 12:30 AM

Sorry guys but I will not be back this year.

:(

Lathum

06-30-2012, 12:31 AM

I'll be leaving for a cruise tomorrow and when I get back we'll start nailing down replacement teams and the off season schedule unless TLK is coming back and wants to set it up sometime this week

cubboyroy1826

06-30-2012, 12:51 AM

I know it is not all that much time but last year I really didn't stay active and work is twice as busy this year. I would rather have someone who is going to put in the time get a chance.

Lathum

07-11-2012, 10:42 PM

OK, quick update. MikeVic and TLK are also out I am sad to report. We do have other people interested so no issues with filling the league. I am waiting to here back from EF27. Once we have owners in place we can start the offseason.

Grover

07-11-2012, 10:52 PM

Throw me on the waiting list, Lathum!

Danny

07-12-2012, 12:03 AM

I replied to your pm but I am interested in joining still

sterlingice

07-12-2012, 05:58 AM

Wow- we're turning over like half the league

SI

JAG

07-12-2012, 06:58 AM

Yeah, this is the most turnover I can recall for the league. We're going to need to get a post together with league rules for the benefit of the incoming teams and a post with current rosters too. This week is really bad for me at work (same with the first part of next week), but I'll try and help out with that if needed.

Lathum

07-12-2012, 08:46 AM

MikeVic

07-12-2012, 08:56 AM

Thanks for having me in your league, it was fun! I'm just burnt out on fantasy sports in general so I'm dropping out of multiple leagues. :)

spleen1015

07-12-2012, 09:02 AM

I'm gonna do what I can.

EF27 also PMed me that he doesn't have time anymore. Bummed to see him go as well but I'm confident we will have active new owners. I really like this league and want to keep it together.

Ditto about keeping the league together. Last year was my first full season in the league. I think the competition level is pretty high. I would hate to lose a fun league like this.

sterlingice

07-12-2012, 09:18 AM

I see how it is- I finally win and no one wants to stick around in a league that's so easy that even I can win it ;)

SI

Lathum

07-12-2012, 02:20 PM

OK- We have 4 spots to fill with 4 people showing interest. I am going to try and post rosters later tonight if I can.

I think the fair way to let people pick a team is in the order they showed interest once they confirm they are coming back. I am not counting molymurphy in this since it had already been determined she was in and what team she would have.

I am also going to post rules in the first post along with rosters and a schedule for the offseason.

sterlingice

07-12-2012, 02:34 PM

I would like to propose a "keepers" tax. Anyone who was here last season gets a player from someone who is going to be here this season :D

SI

Lathum

07-12-2012, 02:43 PM

ok, Grover and Danny are confirmend in.

Rosters from last year are up with owners/ available

sterlingice

07-12-2012, 02:45 PM

Somewhere (previous thread?), we marked down all the players who could not be kept because of the 3rd year keeper provision, I believe.

SI

Lathum

07-12-2012, 02:49 PM

Keeper Rules

Keeper Rules:
-The amount of years a player can be a keeper is limited to three.
-If a player is picked as a "rookie keeper", it's counts as the first year of his three.
-This number is reset if a player is moved in a trade.

Rule for offseason trades as adopted last year

Off-Season Trade Rules
-Trades involving your current roster will be allowed as soon as the Championship game has been completed and until keepers are announced for the next season. The keeper announcement signifies the start of a new season.
-Players may be traded for players, draft picks, or players and picks.
-Any player received in a trade automatically becomes a keeper at their position for their new team.
-When becoming one of the teams keepers, the player will have one year of service counted against the limit.
-If a player is "unkeepable" (meaning he has already been kept 3 times by the same team), he is not allowed to be traded in the offseason.

Lathum

07-12-2012, 02:51 PM

Somewhere (previous thread?), we marked down all the players who could not be kept because of the 3rd year keeper provision, I believe.

SI

I don't have time right now but I am going to try and put something up tonight showing who has been previously kept and for how long. If someone else has time and wants to do it that is cool, just let me know so we don't do twice the work.

Also, once all teams are filled I'll post a schedule for off season activities. It will likely be the same exact as last years, worked out well, so think of any rules changes you may want to vote on.

JAG

07-12-2012, 03:28 PM

Here's the info from last year Lathum. I don't have time to look at everything, but based on the rules we came up with last year, the people marked by (3) years kept, if they're on the same roster as last year, are not eligible to be kept or traded prior to declaring keepers (aka, they're free agents):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/TheLionKing/keeper-3.png

Lathum

07-12-2012, 04:24 PM

ok, I have confirmation from Grover, Danny, and NTN that they are in.

I wrote CarmanBulldog a while back and didn't hear from him. Going to give him a day or so and if I don't hear back fill that slot with someone else.

Lathum

07-12-2012, 04:43 PM

Thanks for finding that JAG.

I know there were a few trades so that list will likely need to be revised

JAG

07-12-2012, 05:29 PM

Going off memory, Brees/Brady and Calvin Johnson/Andre Johnson swapped teams, and you acquired Chris Johnson for a non-keeper, so all those players would have a full year towards their three year limit if kept (as I understand what we agreed to last season, meaning if kept this year they would be listed as (2) when the list of this year's keepers comes out). I think those were the only players who were kept last season that changed hands via trade (not sure if any were dropped / added by someone else).

Julio Riddols

07-12-2012, 05:54 PM

I'd love to take a spot if there is one available.

Lathum

07-12-2012, 06:28 PM

I'd love to take a spot if there is one available.

If I don't hear from Carman by tomorrow you are in

Lathum

07-12-2012, 08:41 PM

spleen1015

07-12-2012, 09:19 PM

Trades from last season.

8 Months Week 10 2011 Touchdown Mafia Traded For 2012 6th round pick from The FOFC All-Stars
8 Months Week 10 2011 The FOFC All-Stars Traded For Roy Helu RB WAS from Touchdown Mafia
9 Months Week 7 2011 Sal's Transgenders Traded For 2012 3rd round pick from Lathums Brew Crew
9 Months Week 7 2011 Lathums Brew Crew Traded For Chris Johnson RB TEN from Sal's Transgenders
9 Months Week 7 2011 Sal's Transgenders Traded For Vincent Jackson WR TB from Lathums Brew Crew
9 Months Week 5 2011 Houston Hippopotami Traded For LeSean McCoy RB PHI from Touchdown Mafia
9 Months Week 5 2011 Touchdown Mafia Traded For Maurice Jones-Drew RB JAC from Houston Hippopotami
9 Months Week 5 2011 Touchdown Mafia Traded For Willis McGahee RB DEN from Houston Hippopotami
9 Months Week 5 2011 Callous Dowboys Traded For Calvin Johnson WR DET from All On Black
9 Months Week 5 2011 All On Black Traded For Andre Johnson WR HOU from Callous Dowboys
9 Months Week 5 2011 Houston Hippopotami Traded For Drew Brees QB NO from Vic's Heroes
9 Months Week 5 2011 Vic's Heroes Traded For Tom Brady QB NE from Houston Hippopotami
11 Months Preseason 2011 Lathums Brew Crew Traded For 2011 1st round pick from South Side Roughnecks
11 Months Preseason 2011 South Side Roughnecks Traded For 2011 2nd round pick from Lathums Brew Crew
11 Months Preseason 2011 South Side Roughnecks Traded For Ben Roethlisberger QB PIT from Lathums Brew Crew

cmgdodgers

07-12-2012, 09:19 PM

If another comes open I'd like in as well.

Grover

07-12-2012, 09:31 PM

Are we allowed to rename our team once we take over?

Lathum

07-12-2012, 09:39 PM

Are we allowed to rename our team once we take over?

I insist!

Grover

07-12-2012, 09:40 PM

I insist!

Fantastic.

Will be my first keeper league. Really looking forward to it.

Lathum

07-12-2012, 09:44 PM

Fantastic.

Will be my first keeper league. Really looking forward to it.

Its been a really great league. I am shocked at all the attrition this year. I think we lost more people this year then the previous eight combined

JAG

07-12-2012, 09:48 PM

Good work spleen, forgot about the Jones-Drew trade.

EDIT, so he and McCoy were keepers that were traded, so they fall under the same category as the other 5 I mentioned earlier.

JAG

07-12-2012, 09:55 PM

OK, so regarding players you want to keep and their years of service I am going to leave each owner responsible from checking the above list to see eligibility.

I bring this up now because I want to make sure all the new owners understand how much time they will have a guy for when choosing a team. I also think it is only fair that you can change your protected list prior to the deadline in case there is some misunderstanding.

Reminder, you may keep one each of RB, QB, and WR and only one of each. you may also keep a rookie from last year for a total of 4 players.

You can also choose to keep a tight end instead of a WR if you want. Note, however, that you are not required to play a tight end in this league (I'll try and get the rules up at some point over the weekend if no one else does sooner).

Also, there will be a time period before you announce keepers that you will be able to trade players (unless they've been kept 3 years) and/or draft picks with other owners.

Lathum

07-12-2012, 10:14 PM

good catch about the TE JAG, although I will be introducing the TE as a position rule again

Julio Riddols

07-13-2012, 11:08 AM

If Carman doesn't show, I promise to think of a clever team name.

Lathum

07-13-2012, 11:29 AM

If Carman doesn't show, I promise to think of a clever team name.

haha. I'm going to give him until lunch my time then it is yours

Lathum

07-13-2012, 02:36 PM

OK, nothing from Carman so I am going to give that spot to Julio.

As I mentioned earlier, we will let people pick their teams in order of joining. Sothe order is

Danny
NTN
Grover
Julio

Here is the draft order, it is a snake draft

South Side Roughnecks
Shakas Big Shooters
Sals Transgenders
FOFC Al Stars
All On Black
The Insomniacs
LAthums Brew Crew
TD Mafia
Vics Heros
Gridiron warriors
Calloud Doughboys
Houston Hippopotime

Please just post in thread which team you want and any questions you may have

saldana

07-13-2012, 02:58 PM

for the record, if you pick my team, they suck!

(which teams are the new guys picking from?)

JAG

07-13-2012, 03:52 PM

Dowboys, not Doughboys.

Note this is a non-PPR league, 6 points for all TDs (except return TDs), 1 point for 10 yards rushing/receiving or 25 yards passing, plus 3 bonus points for hitting 100 / 100 / 300 yards rush/rec/pass and another 3 bonus points for every 50/50/100 yards beyond that. Oh, and +6 points for TDs 50+ yards. Have to play 1 QB/1 RB/2 WR/ 1 RB or WR flex/ 1 WR or TE flex. I think that's the basics for rules in picking a team.

Lathum

07-13-2012, 03:55 PM

shoot, thanks again JAG for having my back on posting the scoring

Saldana- The rosters are listed in the first post and it says either the ownsers name next to team name or available.

JAG

07-13-2012, 04:12 PM

We also might want to consider moving the league to a different location this year as there have been problems with the playoff settings two years in a row with Fleaflicker. I don't have a lot of experience with other sites, but a quick look at Yahoo's offering looked decent and apparently they added some options for keeper leagues this year as well.

Grover

07-13-2012, 05:04 PM

I originally wanted nothing to do with the South Side Roughnecks, but with the first pick and the swing pick it becomes much more tantalizing.

Julio Riddols

07-13-2012, 05:58 PM

Grover

07-13-2012, 06:02 PM

I am strongly considering naming my team "Somewhere Over the Dwayne Bowe"

spleen1015

07-13-2012, 09:54 PM

I am playing in 3 leagues on ESPN, 3 on Yahoo!, 1 on NFL.com and this one. I know there have been issues with the playoffs, but Flea Flicker is the best one by far, IMO. They offer so much more from an analytical perspective, it is not even funny.

Lathum

07-13-2012, 10:06 PM

I have to second that I like fleaflicker as well

ntndeacon

07-14-2012, 10:29 PM

Grover, did you take the South Side Team? iwasn't sure, which is why I haven't picked yet.

Lathum

07-14-2012, 10:31 PM

Grover, did you take the South Side Team? iwasn't sure, which is why I haven't picked yet.

no, danny has first selection

ntndeacon

07-14-2012, 11:22 PM

oops. I obviously can't read.

Grover

07-15-2012, 08:47 AM

I was just thinking out loud in public spaces.

Danny

07-15-2012, 09:45 AM

I'll take a look and pick this morning.

Danny

07-15-2012, 09:57 AM

Is there anywhere a players years kept is listed? And I would keep one QB, RB, WR/TE and one rookie (if I want to) correct?

Grover

07-15-2012, 09:59 AM

Post #37

Front Office Football Central - View Single Post - The FOFC Keeper League 2012 (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showpost.php?p=2687505&postcount=37)

Danny

07-15-2012, 10:00 AM

Danny

07-15-2012, 10:01 AM

Still looking, but Foster, Johnson and Shaub in the early lead despite all playing for Houston lol.

Lathum

07-15-2012, 10:01 AM

post 37 in this thread has the kept years and yes you keep one each of QB, WR, RB, and can keep a rookie if you like.

I think we are all pretty open, if you have a particular question about a team feel free to ask

Lathum

07-15-2012, 10:02 AM

also, if you can put the new team name in when you select that would be good.

Lathum

07-15-2012, 10:04 AM

Still looking, but Foster, Johnson and Shaub in the early lead despite all playing for Houston lol.

just so you are aware this would be the last year you can keep Schaub and you would have 2 more years from Foster and Johnson

Danny

07-15-2012, 10:04 AM

I'll take All on Black

Lathum

07-15-2012, 10:05 AM

OK, Danny takes AoB so NTNDeacon picks next

Danny

07-15-2012, 10:06 AM

just so you are aware this would be the last year you can keep Schaub and you would have 2 more years from Foster and Johnson

Thanks, the Foster and Johnson are the keys here. Schaub is only a mid level QB anyway. I also have a couple decent rookie options in Ingram and Moore.

Lathum

07-15-2012, 10:06 AM

can all the new guys also PM me their email addresses, I likely will need them to do league invites

Danny

07-15-2012, 10:08 AM

And thanks for the PM. Getting read to move to a new city in a week, start a new job and other stuff, so not as on top of things as I usually am. Once we finish the move things will settle down.

Grover

07-15-2012, 10:08 AM

Danny

07-15-2012, 10:09 AM

I believe if it says 3, they go back in the pool unless they are on a different team, in which case they would go back down to 0

Danny

07-15-2012, 10:10 AM

lol, I didnt even notice I have Gronkowski too. Wow, now thats a tough choice there.

Danny

07-15-2012, 10:12 AM

So if I trade someone they have to be a keeper? Or could I say trade Schaub and Johnson for a better QB and then keep that Qb, Foster and Gronkowski?

Lathum

07-15-2012, 10:12 AM

So in Post 37, if it says (3) next to their names this would be the final season we have them?

I was thinking it means they had already been on the team for three years and would be back in the draft pool. Good to know.

I believe if it says 3, they go back in the pool unless they are on a different team, in which case they would go back down to 0

3 means they go back into the draft this year. The spirit of the rule is so you get 3 years of a guy on your team. Keep in mind that list is from the start of last season so the guys with a 3 can not be kept. You also need to look at the CURRENT rosters because some of those guys were traded, in which case their counter gets reset and last season would be year 1 on their current team

Lathum

07-15-2012, 10:14 AM

So if I trade someone they have to be a keeper? Or could I say trade Schaub and Johnson for a better QB and then keep that Qb, Foster and Gronkowski?

I have to go back and check the rules on this because there was a lot of discussion about that last season.

Keep in mind you can also trade for draft pick.

Danny

07-15-2012, 10:23 AM

I'm

Danny

07-15-2012, 10:24 AM

I'm putting Andre Johnson on the block. Looking for a really good qb and or picks

sterlingice

07-15-2012, 10:31 AM

Ok, I'm going to spend the new 30~60 mins trying to hash out all of the rosters (with keeper info included). That way everyone knows what they are looking at

SI

Grover

07-15-2012, 10:37 AM

Ok, I'm going to spend the new 30~60 mins trying to hash out all of the rosters (with keeper info included). That way everyone knows what they are looking at

SI

Thanks SI...

I was a bit confused looking at the Insomniacs. I saw Hillis listed as a keeper in post 37, but not on the roster of the original post, and not in the trades post... so I was wondering where he was in all of this.

Lathum

07-15-2012, 10:48 AM

Ok, I'm going to spend the new 30~60 mins trying to hash out all of the rosters (with keeper info included). That way everyone knows what they are looking at

SI

thanks SI, all the info you need should be in the thread but I haven't had time to put it in a comprehensive manner

Lathum

07-15-2012, 10:56 AM

Lathum

07-15-2012, 11:01 AM

ok, invite sent to Danny for AoB and MollyMurphy for Shakas big shooters

sterlingice

07-15-2012, 11:02 AM

Post 36 is giving me fits- give me a few more minutes.

SI

sterlingice

07-15-2012, 11:04 AM

I was thinking we were going off a 3 year keeper schedule but it's more like a 4 year keeper schedule (draft, keep1, keep2, keep3 before gone)

SI

Lathum

07-15-2012, 11:09 AM

I was thinking we were going off a 3 year keeper schedule but it's more like a 4 year keeper schedule (draft, keep1, keep2, keep3 before gone)

SI

wouldn't draft and year 1 count as one. This came up last year and the basic premise was that you can get 3 seasons of play out of a guy

sterlingice

07-15-2012, 11:10 AM

yeah, that was what I thought. This is what's driving me batty looking at the lists from last year. They list people as 3, 2 and nothing.

SI

Lathum

07-15-2012, 11:12 AM

yeah, that was what I thought. This is what's driving me batty looking at the lists from last year. They list people as 3, 2 and nothing.

SI

I think nothing would technically be year one, or the first year a particular player was on that roster.

So for example, I drafted Tony Romo last year. Obviously since I drafted him he was on my roster, so that would count as the first year, so I can play him 2 more seasons then lose him, or trade him during season 3.

sterlingice

07-15-2012, 11:27 AM

These are the 4 examples I'm looking at, which I think I've just been staring at too long:

These are the two I think I have straight in my head but then if these are correct then where am I wrong on the next two:
* Brandon Marshall - I'm going to keep him this year because Fitz is a 3 and I'm going to lose him. I had him this past season (2011) and then will get him in 2012 and 2013.
* Peyton Manning (3). Peyton has been on Sal's team for 3 years and now he's done, right? Or was it 4?

But then help me with these two:
* Ray Rice (listed with no number last year) - Callous kept him last year so that means he's had him for 2010 and first kept him in 2011. But he didn't even have a number so if he's 1 then does that mean he's now 2 and kept for next season (2012)?
* Matt Schaub (2) - But then if that's a 1, then that means Matt Schaub has been kept for 2 seasons. But if he's been kept twice, then he should be into pool now: drafted season (2009), first kept season (2010), second kept season (2011). That's 3 seasons he's been there and should now be back in the pool if it's a 3 year clock. But that can't be right, can it?

I think I really need to just go through the year by year rosters to see where I'm wrong but that's going to take some digging.

SI

sterlingice

07-15-2012, 11:36 AM

If we'd like to make this more confusing, this was brought up and a couple of us agreed to it but it was never before a full vote:

(new owners get amnesty for 1 year for their 3rd year players)
Front Office Football Central - View Single Post - The FOFC Keeper League - 2009 Season (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showpost.php?p=2084543&postcount=29)

SI

Lathum

07-15-2012, 11:41 AM

I have no issues with that. Would make things easier

Lathum

07-15-2012, 11:42 AM

when did the keeper rules take effect?

If they were in 2010 Schaub would have another year 10-11-12.

sterlingice

07-15-2012, 12:04 PM

So how about Ray Rice? I dropped him after 2009, keeping MJD instead. Callous drafted him in 2010 and had him for the 2010 and 2011 season. So this should be year 3 (2012) for Rice on Callous.

Matt Schaub has been on All on Black in 2009, 2010, and 2011. So wouldn't he be back in the pool just like, say, Peyton?

So, is this a 3 or 4 year keeper cycle? Do you get a player for 3 years? Or do you get to *keep* a player three times, which means you get him for 4 years (i.e. draft year, keep1, keep2, keep3)?

I'm thoroughly confused so someone else will have to weigh in on this

SI

sterlingice

07-15-2012, 12:14 PM

I'm almost thinking this has to be a 4 year (draft then 3 keeper) thing but I was under the impression we were talking about a 3 year. But check out the prior keeper lists:

2009
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/TheLionKing/2009Keepers.png

2010
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/TheLionKing/keeper2010.png

2011
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/TheLionKing/keeper-3.png

SI

JAG

07-15-2012, 12:36 PM

So, is this a 3 or 4 year keeper cycle? Do you get a player for 3 years? Or do you get to *keep* a player three times, which means you get him for 4 years (i.e. draft year, keep1, keep2, keep3)?

I'm thoroughly confused so someone else will have to weigh in on this

SI

Previously it's been you can't keep a player more than 3 times, so the season the player has been drafted has been 'free'. So I drafted Adrian Peterson a few years ago then kept him twice (3 total seasons) and let him go before last season even though I could have technically kept him.

I would be ok changing that rule so that you can't have a player on your team more than three seasons instead of being able to keep him three times, but that would be a change from how we've done things so I think we should vote on it before just implementing it.

Grover

07-15-2012, 12:44 PM

Ah so previously, you can keep a player for three years as a keeper, but you're also allowed to only have any player (keeper or not) for three season cumulatively?

sterlingice

07-15-2012, 12:45 PM

Thanks for the clarity, JAG. I agree wholeheartedly that if we wanted to change it, we would need to vote on it. And, frankly, with all keeper changes I would vote it take effect after this season not before as people would have done things differently this past season.

And with that clarification, I'll have everything up in a few minutes

SI

sterlingice

07-15-2012, 12:46 PM

Ah so previously, you can keep a player for three years as a keeper, but you're also allowed to only have any player (keeper or not) for three season cumulatively?

No, I think that's where the confusion was with me. I was thinking you could only have them 3 seasons whereas it's really 4.

SI

Lathum

07-15-2012, 01:00 PM

ok, I must have been mistaken. So in this scenerio I drafted Romo last season, so I can actually have hi8m 3 more years?

sterlingice

07-15-2012, 01:12 PM

Rules

As soon as keepers are declared this season (in the next month), all player numbers are incremented. This number will show what each player will be as soon as keepers are declared:
Season 4: If a player shows (4), they are going back into the draft pool. They cannot be traded. You kept them for the length of their "contract" and now they are becoming a free agent.
Season 3: Anyone who is a season 3, becomes a season 4. If you keep that player all season, next offseason you cannot trade them and they will go into the free agent pool. You may trade that player before the trading deadline of the season and he becomes a season 1 for whatever team he's traded to.
Season 2: The player was on the team last season and this is his first keeper year. He has up to 3 more full seasons on your team. Also, if the player was a rookie keeper, that counts as a keeper season.
Season 1: Everyone on your team is in season 1 because they were on your team for 1 year. Players who are 1 becomes 2s after keepers are declared. So, you had them for last season (season 1), you have them for this coming season (season 2), and then you get them for two more seasons (seasons 3 and 4) before losing them. So, on the below list, everyone who isn't a 4, 3, or 2 can be assumed to be a 1.Two questions:
Q: If a new team is inherited, will it's season 4 players revert back to season 3 status?
Q: After this season, should we remove the "free" season so that players can only be on the team for a maximum of 3 seasons (or 2.5 if traded in-season) as opposed to 4(3.5)?

All On Black- Available
(2) Arian Foster RB HOU
Mark Ingram RB NO
Kevin Smith RB DET
Beanie Wells RB ARI
Antonio Brown WR PIT
Plaxico Burress WR NYJ
(2) Andre Johnson WR HOU
Mario Manningham WR SF
Denarius Moore WR OAK
Carson Palmer QB OAK
(3) Matt Schaub QB HOU
Rob Gronkowski TE NE
David Akers K SF
Detroit Lions TM DET

Vicks Heros- Available
Matt Forte RB CHI
(4) Steven Jackson RB STL
Darren Sproles RB NO
DeAngelo Williams RB CAR
(2) Miles Austin WR DAL
Steve Breaston WR KC
Stevie Johnson WR BUF
Santana Moss WR WAS
Jerome Simpson WR MIN
Wes Welker WR NE
Mike Williams WR TB
(2) Tom Brady QB NE
Nick Novak K SD
Green Bay Packers TM

The Insomniacs- available
Delone Carter RB IND
BenJarvus Green-Ellis RB CIN
Shonn Greene RB NYJ
Pierre Thomas RB NO
Ryan Torain RB WAS
Anquan Boldin WR BAL
(4) DeSean Jackson WR PHI
Michael Jenkins WR MIN
Steve Smith WR CAR
Nate Washington WR TEN
(4) Eli Manning QB NYG
Fred Davis TE WAS
Matt Bryant K ATL
Cincinnati Bengals TM CIN

Southside Roughnecks- available
(3) Marion Barber RB CHI
Cedric Benson RB CIN
Ryan Grant RB GB
Mike Tolbert RB CAR
Doug Baldwin WR SEA
Austin Collie WR IND
Early Doucet WR ARI
Devery Henderson WR NO
(3) Jeremy Maclin WR PHI
Torrey Smith WR BAL
Cam Newton QB CAR
(2) Ben Roethlisberger QB PIT
Sebastian Janikowski K OAK
Philadelphia Eagles TM PHI

Owners looking for a team:
1. Danny
2. NTN Deacon
3. Grover
4. Julio Riddols

Gridiron Warriors-PackerFanatic
(4) Frank Gore RB SF
Fred Jackson RB BUF
James Starks RB GB
Daniel Thomas RB MIA
Vincent Brown WR SD
Eric Decker WR DEN
Malcom Floyd WR SD
Jabar Gaffney WR NE
Greg Jennings WR GB
(2) Aaron Rodgers QB GB
Alex Smith QB SF
Jermichael Finley TE GB
Matt Prater K DEN
Chicago Bears TM CHI

The FOFC All Stars- SamiFan24
Donald Brown RB IND
Jamaal Charles RB KC
(2) Darren McFadden RB OAK
DeMarco Murray RB DAL
Pierre Garcon WR WAS
Lance Moore WR NO
(3) Roddy White WR ATL
Joe Flacco QB BAL
(4) Philip Rivers QB SD
Owen Daniels TE HOU
Brandon Pettigrew TE DET
Stephen Gostkowski K NE
San Francisco 49ers TM SF
Baltimore Ravens TM BAL

Callous Doughboys-JAG
Michael Bush RB CHI
Ryan Mathews RB SD
(2) Ray Rice RB BAL
Ben Tate RB HOU
(2) Dez Bryant WR DAL
A. J. Green WR CIN
(2) Calvin Johnson WR DET
Laurent Robinson WR JAC
Matthew Stafford QB DET
Tim Tebow QB NYJ
Aaron Hernandez TE NE
John Kasay K NO
New England Patriots TM NE
Seattle Seahawks TM SEA

Sals Transgenders- Saldana
Ahmad Bradshaw RB NYG
Reggie Bush RB MIA
Michael Crabtree WR SF
Percy Harvin WR MIN
(2) Vincent Jackson WR TB
James Jones WR GB
(4) Reggie Wayne WR IND
Jake Locker QB TEN
(4) Peyton Manning QB DEN
(2) Colt McCoy QB CLE
Vernon Davis TE SF
Robbie Gould K CHI
New York Jets TM NYJ
Tennessee Titans TM TEN

Houston Hippopotami- Sterlingice
(2) Jahvid Best RB DET
Kendall Hunter RB SF
Felix Jones RB DAL
Marshawn Lynch RB SEA
(2) LeSean McCoy RB PHI
Marques Colston WR NO
(4) Larry Fitzgerald WR ARI
Brandon Marshall WR CHI
Demaryius Thomas WR DEN
Damian Williams WR TEN
(2) Drew Brees QB NO
Mark Sanchez QB NYJ
Mason Crosby K GB
Denver Broncos TM DEN

Shakas Big Shooters- MollyMurphy
Toby Gerhart RB MIN
Adrian Peterson RB MIN
(2) C. J. Spiller RB BUF
Jonathan Stewart RB CAR
(4) Michael Turner RB ATL
(2) Dwayne Bowe WR KC
Kenny Britt WR TEN
Nate Burleson WR DET
Riley Cooper WR PHI
Julio Jones WR ATL
Matt Hasselbeck QB TEN
(2) Michael Vick QB PHI
Alex Henery K PHI
Atlanta Falcons TM ATL

Touchdown MAfia- Spleen
(2) Roy Helu RB WAS
(2) Maurice Jones-Drew RB JAC
(2) Willis McGahee RB DEN
Rashard Mendenhall RB PIT
Victor Cruz WR NYG
(2) Brandon Lloyd WR NE
Jordy Nelson WR GB
Ryan Fitzpatrick QB BUF
(4) Matt Ryan QB ATL
Antonio Gates TE SD
Jimmy Graham TE NO
Dan Bailey K DAL
Dallas Cowboys TM DAL
Houston Texans TM HOU

Lathums Brew Crew- Lathum
(2) LeGarrette Blount RB TB
Brandon Jacobs RB SF
(2) Chris Johnson RB TEN
Deion Branch WR NE
(3) Hakeem Nicks WR NYG
Mike Wallace WR PIT
(2) Jay Cutler QB CHI
Andy Dalton QB CIN
Tony Romo QB DAL
Tony Gonzalez TE ATL
Jason Hanson K DET
Neil Rackers K WAS
Oakland Raiders TM OAK
Pittsburgh Steelers TM PIT

SI

sterlingice

07-15-2012, 01:13 PM

ok, I must have been mistaken. So in this scenerio I drafted Romo last season, so I can actually have hi8m 3 more years?

Sounds like the case as I understand it from what JAG said. On the other hand, I'd like to vote on shortening that to 2 keeper years after the first like we were talking about earlier. But, like any keeper change, it's not fair to do it until after the season.

SI

Grover

07-15-2012, 01:15 PM

Heh, didn't Marion Barber III retire?

JAG

07-15-2012, 01:21 PM

SI, looks very good and great explanations of the numbers. One thing has to be changed though. Keepers that were traded last season should start off this season as (2) instead of (1) because I believe we stated any keeper traded gets a year service towards them once we're in season (this is where we discussed things last season with the 'no more than three years on a team' rule, only exception to this point being drafted players). So for example Calvin Johnson on my team should be (2) because he played with me for a chunk of last season and then I can keep him two more seasons, not three.

sterlingice

07-15-2012, 02:03 PM

JAG

07-15-2012, 02:32 PM

Updated to include the trades from Post #44. So, for instance, I traded for McCoy and Brees last season so they are now 2's for me, not 1's.

I think we should get rid of the trading exception and just move it back to 3 years for all players so no free drafted year. Otherwise, you make a trade and you only get a player for 1.5 seasons. Or is that the goal? To limit how long you can keep traded keepers?

SI

I'm ok with getting rid of the free draft year. For the trading exception though, let me throw out a hypothetical. Right after keepers are declared, I trade Stafford for Brees. That means that I get Brees for all of the year and then I can keep him 3 more times? Doesn't that let me have his rights for four full years? I think I wouldn't be in favor of ditching the trade exception.

Grover

07-15-2012, 02:41 PM

I'm ok with getting rid of the free draft year. For the trading exception though, let me throw out a hypothetical. Right after keepers are declared, I trade Stafford for Brees. That means that I get Brees for all of the year and then I can keep him 3 more times? Doesn't that let me have his rights for four full years? I think I wouldn't be in favor of ditching the trade exception.

I agree with this. If you acquire a player halfway through a season, you shouldn't lose a year of eligibility for him.

sterlingice

07-15-2012, 03:02 PM

I'm ok with getting rid of the free draft year. For the trading exception though, let me throw out a hypothetical. Right after keepers are declared, I trade Stafford for Brees. That means that I get Brees for all of the year and then I can keep him 3 more times? Doesn't that let me have his rights for four full years? I think I wouldn't be in favor of ditching the trade exception.

We could say your keeper season number is incremented right before the draft. So, even with a preseason trade, they're at 1 so that means 2 more seasons.

SI

sterlingice

07-15-2012, 03:04 PM

I agree with this. If you acquire a player halfway through a season, you shouldn't lose a year of eligibility for him.

The theory is that you get, at most, 3 seasons not 3.5, I think. You shouldn't get rewarded an extra 0.5 seasons just because you traded for a player, right? So, if you trade for a player halfway through a season, you get him the rest of that season and 2 more seasons.

SI

JAG

07-15-2012, 03:24 PM

The theory is that you get, at most, 3 seasons not 3.5, I think. You shouldn't get rewarded an extra 0.5 seasons just because you traded for a player, right? So, if you trade for a player halfway through a season, you get him the rest of that season and 2 more seasons.

SI

Right, I must have misunderstood what you were saying about traded players above then. We're on the same page.

ntndeacon

07-15-2012, 04:41 PM

we will go with Vick's heros

ntndeacon

07-15-2012, 04:49 PM

and we will change the name to Klein Bottles

Grover

07-15-2012, 04:50 PM

Need clarification... if I take the Insomniacs, do I have Eli and DeSean for one more year? Or am I taking over an empty team?

sterlingice

07-15-2012, 05:03 PM

Are we going with the 1 year amnesty waiver for new owners (4s become 3s)? I'm in favor but it never officially went to league vote.

SI

Grover

07-15-2012, 05:09 PM

Are we going with the 1 year amnesty waiver for new owners (4s become 3s)? I'm in favor but it never officially went to league vote.

SI

Either way, that's probably my pick, I just want to be certain of what I have before I take them.

JAG

07-15-2012, 05:13 PM

Are we going with the 1 year amnesty waiver for new owners (4s become 3s)? I'm in favor but it never officially went to league vote.

SI

I think that's a very good rule in general for new owners. We probably ought to have gotten consensus before we handed out teams, but basically, if anyone is against this, let's have them speak out now or else just let it be so.

Grover

07-15-2012, 05:20 PM

All right, as it stands, regardless if I have Eli and Jackson for a year or not, I'll take over:

The Insomniacs

who shall henceforth be known as:

Blue Feltvet

Julio Riddols

07-15-2012, 06:36 PM

Now I will try and decide who to take over.....

Julio Riddols

07-15-2012, 06:38 PM

Hmm, I suppose I will go with the Roughnecks.. Tough decision, but I think thats who I am going to take. Now to think of a team name..

ntndeacon

07-15-2012, 06:43 PM

a ballsy choice there Julio!

Julio Riddols

07-15-2012, 06:50 PM

Team name: Cam Pain 2012

Julio Riddols

07-15-2012, 06:52 PM

God what a mess this team is in. That top pick is gonna have to be a home run.

Julio Riddols

07-15-2012, 06:54 PM

a ballsy choice there Julio!

Yeah, I thought long and hard about it, but when it comes down to it, you just have to go with the team that has the most potential. to suck.

sterlingice

07-15-2012, 07:00 PM

At least you should be set at QB with Roethlisberger at QB keeper and Newton at rookie keeper. Maclin's ok at WR and at, RB, well, I'm sure there's something good in the draft pool :D

SI

Julio Riddols

07-15-2012, 07:54 PM

Yeah, I guess that is probably my best bet for how to set this team up.. I may just keep Newton and that's it. I'd also be open to trading him.

sterlingice

07-15-2012, 07:56 PM

Keep in mind that keepers get added in at the end of the draft, not at the start. So, anyone you keep probably will be better than what you can get in the ~10th+ round.

SI

Danny

07-15-2012, 09:20 PM

My team is Roadkill Cafe

Lathum

07-15-2012, 09:20 PM

I need Grovers email PMed to me

Lathum

07-15-2012, 09:21 PM

My team is Roadkill Cafe

shocking!

Danny

07-15-2012, 09:23 PM

Julio I am interested in a trade. I have Andre Johnson as a centerpiece and beanie wells to trade

Lathum

07-15-2012, 09:37 PM

ok. Invites are out for everyone. You guys should be able to join and sign up for your teams.

Lathum

07-15-2012, 09:44 PM

Julio Riddols

07-15-2012, 09:49 PM

Julio I am interested in a trade. I have Andre Johnson as a centerpiece and beanie wells to trade

I like Andre, not so hot on Beanie though.

Julio Riddols

07-15-2012, 09:50 PM

I would like to let everyone who hasn't chimed in about amnestying the 3rd year keeper on new teams before passing it but I think it is the way to go. MollyMurphy has no issues with it and I texted Saldana. I know Me, Jag, and SI are on board. Just need to hear from PF and Sami I believe.

Although it doesn't apply to me, I'm on board with this too.

Grover

07-15-2012, 09:51 PM

I'm cool with one year of Eli Manning.

Lathum

07-15-2012, 09:59 PM

I'm cool with one year of Eli Manning.

Who wouldn't be?

Julio Riddols

07-15-2012, 10:17 PM

If I could just have Eli Manning's 4th quarters, that would be solid.

ntndeacon

07-15-2012, 11:06 PM

does the amnesty mean that we have the ability to trade those players that we are recieving amnesty on?

Danny

07-16-2012, 12:28 AM

I like Andre, not so hot on Beanie though.

I would do Andre + wells or Ingram for newton. Ingram could be a rookie keeper for you.

spleen1015

07-16-2012, 07:21 AM

I was away all day yesterday so sorry for my lateness in some of these discussions.

I've always thought keepers were for 3 years. The year they are drafted counts as year 1.

Also, I am against the amnesty for new owners.

spleen1015

07-16-2012, 07:25 AM

JAG

07-16-2012, 07:56 AM

Also, I am confused by the numbers in SI's post #111.

Roy Helu has a 2 next to him. I believe that indicates this season 2012, would be his second season on my team. Why doesn't all of the other players have them? Graham and Gates are in the same boat for example, so I don't understand what the numbers in () represent.

Helu was a rookie last year, so I'm pretty sure it was an error for him to be listed as (2), he should be a (1) along with every other rookie. I did a check of the list and I think that's the only error though owners should check their own players to be sure.

spleen1015

07-16-2012, 08:25 AM

Helu was a rookie last year, so I'm pretty sure it was an error for him to be listed as (2), he should be a (1) along with every other rookie. I did a check of the list and I think that's the only error though owners should check their own players to be sure.

Okay, but what about Jones-Drew? I traded for him last year. So, he's in the same boat as Helu, right?

Maybe I am confused?

JAG

07-16-2012, 09:42 AM

Players you trade for post-keeper declaration deadline get a year accrued to them, so you could keep Jones-Drew for two more full seasons.

spleen1015

07-16-2012, 10:01 AM

Players you trade for post-keeper declaration deadline get a year accrued to them, so you could keep Jones-Drew for two more full seasons.

Okay, this may be hard to convey, so bare with me.

You're saying that Helu shouldn't have a 2 because he was drafted last year. So, I have him for draft year + 3.

Jones-Drew doesn't get the draft year because I acquired him in a trade, so I have him for last year + 2.

Just to that I am clear, the rule is a keeper is for 4 years, draft year + 3, right?

I'm asking because I always thought it was 3 years total, draft year + 2.

PackerFanatic

07-16-2012, 11:01 AM

We were always able to keep 3 times - meaning we would technically have them 4 years.

PackerFanatic

07-16-2012, 11:02 AM

I would like to let everyone who hasn't chimed in about amnestying the 3rd year keeper on new teams before passing it but I think it is the way to go. MollyMurphy has no issues with it and I texted Saldana. I know Me, Jag, and SI are on board. Just need to hear from PF and Sami I believe.

I am okay with amnesty for new owners - especially with the amount that we have this year. No point in punishing them for inheriting a team.

PackerFanatic

07-16-2012, 11:05 AM

Two questions:
Q: If a new team is inherited, will it's season 4 players revert back to season 3 status?
Q: After this season, should we remove the "free" season so that players can only be on the team for a maximum of 3 seasons (or 2.5 if traded in-season) as opposed to 4(3.5)?
[B]

To put in my two cents here...

1) Yes, I think that should be the case, as I said in my previous post. New owners should get the opportunity to keep anyone on their inherited team, even if said player would have been due to be a FA.

2) I personally like the "3 keeps, then done" rule - so we basically get them for 4 years. But I would be okay with 2 keeps as well, if that was the consensus. It would just be something that might not be able to be fully enforced this season - since there is a good mix of keeper years out there, you can't punish those that have kept for longer than that time already.

PackerFanatic

07-16-2012, 11:08 AM

JAG

07-16-2012, 11:19 AM

PackerFanatic

07-16-2012, 11:23 AM

Ever since we went to a three year keeper system, the rule had been you cannot keep a player more than three times before they become a free agent. So that rule meant you could draft a player, using them that year, and then could keep them three more times for the following three seasons, for a total of four seasons. That's one rule up for change this year, removing the free draft year so no player remains on a team for more than three total seasons.

So basically we only keep them twice. It's not really a "free" year we're talking about - it's the number of times we can keep the player. Currently, we keep them 3 times (which means we have them up to 4 years). The suggestion is to allow us to only keep them twice - which would be a total of up to 3 years. I think that might be where some people are getting confused.

Also, I am rethinking my stance on no amnesty for new players. I'm sort of thinking it penalizes returning players who don't get to make use of that rule and removing potential players from the pool that could help them upgrade. It does make things more challenging for incoming players if they're inheriting a team that has a number of players in that state though. So I'm not sure anymore.

I would hope that this is a rule we don't use that often, to be honest. I think the benefit to the incoming players outweighs the "penalty" to current players. If a new guy is coming in and inheriting a team, and that team just so happens to have a guy that is due to be a FA, he should have the option to keep him one last time. Our keeper rules are designed toward owners, not necessarily the teams.

JAG

07-16-2012, 11:24 AM

So if you trade for Player A midway through a season, they end the season with one year of service (no matter how long they were kept on the previous team) - is that correct? So you would still get 3.5 years out of them if you kept them the full 3 times. If you just plain draft player A and keep him the full 3 times - then you're getting him 4 years. Which is fine by me (and how I always thought it worked anyway).

Just talking through all the posts, making sure I get it all :)

The trade rule, since last year, has been if you trade for a player, they get a keeper season accrued, so you would get a traded player between 2.5-3 seasons total depending on when you traded for them, not 3.5-4 years.

PackerFanatic

07-16-2012, 11:49 AM

Oh I see what you mean - so they, technically, get tacked with 2 years of service - 1 for the one they actually played and 1 for the trade. That makes sense because everyone else already ends the season with 1 year of service.

Lathum

07-16-2012, 12:11 PM

Just as an FYI, TLK passed commish on to me because I got things started for this season, but I am going to pass it to JAG as long as there are no objections. I just don't have the time right now to organize the rules, votes, et...

JAG

07-16-2012, 12:16 PM

So basically we only keep them twice. It's not really a "free" year we're talking about - it's the number of times we can keep the player. Currently, we keep them 3 times (which means we have them up to 4 years). The suggestion is to allow us to only keep them twice - which would be a total of up to 3 years. I think that might be where some people are getting confused.

That's true with the only exception being if you trade for someone prior to keepers being declared (sorry, I should have said the trade rule was only for in-season trades). In that case those players could be kept three times.

I would hope that this is a rule we don't use that often, to be honest. I think the benefit to the incoming players outweighs the "penalty" to current players. If a new guy is coming in and inheriting a team, and that team just so happens to have a guy that is due to be a FA, he should have the option to keep him one last time. Our keeper rules are designed toward owners, not necessarily the teams.

That point of view makes sense to me.

PackerFanatic

07-16-2012, 03:45 PM

That makes sense, JAG.

And FYI - if you need any assistance running things, I'm more than happy to help :)

spleen1015

07-16-2012, 03:46 PM

If the keeper rule is draft year + 3, then the amnesty rule doesn't really come into play until after this year.

I am still against it. Why should I not have the opportunity to pick up a guy that would be FA just because someone quit the league? I don't care that the owner has changed. That team is still that team, regardless of ownership.

I don't know what type of scenarios we would face in the future, but let's say that someone has Rodgers, Foster, and Megatron as keepers for draft year + 3. They've had top players every year for 4 years, dominating the league. They're going to lose them and they decide to quit. A new owner comes in and gets to keep them for a 5th year just because their new? I don't like the sound of that at all. The new owner gets to deal with losing them all. If the new owner doesn't like it, let them go find another league to play in. I don't like the idea of punishing the rest of the ownership just because someone decided to quit the league.

PackerFanatic

07-16-2012, 03:58 PM

Like I said above, I think it's hurting the new owner more so than the other owners though. And honestly - I would really hope we do enough to keep owners around so that it never has to come to this :)

Lathum

07-16-2012, 03:58 PM

PackerFanatic

07-16-2012, 03:59 PM

And actually, spleen, there are a few players that would fall under that category (just from a quick check at the post on the previous page) - I don't know if any of those players fall on teams that now have new owners, but there are a few players that were kept 3 times.

spleen1015

07-16-2012, 04:08 PM

Lathum

07-16-2012, 04:16 PM

You are right. I was thinking the league started in 2009, but it started in 2010.

The league has actually been around since 2004, but the keeper years rule was voted on in 09

spleen1015

07-16-2012, 04:18 PM

The league has actually been around since 2004, but the keeper years rule was voted on in 09

I'm all over the fucking place. I typed 2010 in that posted when I meant 2008.

Whatever.

Lathum

07-16-2012, 04:27 PM

haha

JAG

07-16-2012, 06:50 PM

I think that is a fair point and something we should vote on, however, I think given the large number of new owners this year it may be easier to do a one year exception then vote how we want to proceed.

We're going to need to sort this out before any transactions can be done with those players. I keep going back and forth on it, as I do think spleen has a reasonable point.

What I'd like to say is, if anyone else has any rules proposals, lets get them out there within the next 2-3 days, so we can get started on officially voting for all this stuff and moving on with the offseason stuff.

samifan24

07-16-2012, 07:27 PM

Sorry for not chiming in earlier but I'm on board with amnesty for new owners.

PackerFanatic

07-16-2012, 07:47 PM

Alright, I think our two main proposals at this point:

One-year amnesty rule for new owners: If a new owner inherits a team, that owner is allowed to a player who was previously kept for 3 years under the previous owner. This player will basically have one year knocked off his tenure and will be allowed to be kept for an additional year.

Drop keeper years from 3 to 2: Owners can keep any player a maximum of 2 times, giving that owner a maximum of 3 years of service for a single player (the year they were drafted + the two years they are kept)

PackerFanatic

07-16-2012, 07:48 PM

There might be more, but that seems to be the main gist at this point (mainly the amnesty one, so we can make sure the new owners can get in the swing of things and start making moves if they wish)

sterlingice

07-16-2012, 08:04 PM

Lathum

07-16-2012, 09:00 PM

so if I had Hakeem Nicks as a rookie in 2009, I can either keep him this year and lose him after or trade him and he will go against someone for a year, correct?

JAG

07-16-2012, 09:32 PM

One-year amnesty rule for new owners: If a new owner inherits a team, that owner is allowed to keep a player who was previously kept for 3 years under the previous owner. This player will basically have one year knocked off his tenure and will be allowed to be kept for one final year.

Ok with this as proposal #1 to be voted on.

Drop keeper years from 3 to 2: Owners can keep any player a maximum of 2 times, giving that owner a maximum of 3 years of service for a single player (the year they were drafted + the two years they are kept)

Another proposal would be to get rid of the traded penalty year. If a player is traded in season, they do not suffer a keeper penalty.

I would prefer to word proposal #2 like this:

No player may play on the same team for more than 3 consecutive years (includes partial seasons as a full season) --- What this essentially means with all the different ways of acquiring a player is:

a. You draft a player: You can play them the season you draft them and then keep them two additional seasons.
b. You trade for a player after keepers are declared: You can play them the remainder of the season and keep them two additional seasons.
c. You trade for a player before keepers are declared (off-season trade): This is the only situation you can keep a player three times so they are able to play for your team the full three consecutive seasons.

EDIT: It also needs to be decided if proposal #2 would be applied retroactively (count up seasons a player has played for a team and make that the new amount of years they have accrued with a team) or if it would be applied for all player acquisition after the proposal is approved.

Julio Riddols

07-16-2012, 11:01 PM

I think a player should be able to be kept for 3 seasons any time they become a member of your team. Meaning, if I trade for or draft a guy and keep him for his 3 years, then I let him go but claim him back in the draft, I can then keep him for another 3 years. acquiring a guy at any time should reset his years of service to 1 again.

Don't make it retroactive, but just starting next season, 3 years in a row means they go back in the pool. You can try and get em again at that point if you wish, but it must be through means other than designating him a keeper.

Danny

07-17-2012, 02:19 AM

1. No
2. Yes

Danny

07-17-2012, 02:29 AM

I believe both my answers encourage trading which is why I went for them. I do believe trading a player should reset their timer.

JAG

07-17-2012, 04:44 AM

I think a player should be able to be kept for 3 seasons any time they become a member of your team. Meaning, if I trade for or draft a guy and keep him for his 3 years, then I let him go but claim him back in the draft, I can then keep him for another 3 years. acquiring a guy at any time should reset his years of service to 1 again.

I agree. If you've relinquished a player's rights but then reacquired them, you can keep them again as if it were their first year on your team because you've had to spend resources to get them again. I've tried for about 5-10 minutes to figure out how to reword the proposal to make that clear but couldn't determine a concise way to do it, so if someone could wordsmith it, that would be nice.

sterlingice

07-17-2012, 05:39 AM

I think a player should be able to be kept for 3 seasons any time they become a member of your team. Meaning, if I trade for or draft a guy and keep him for his 3 years, then I let him go but claim him back in the draft, I can then keep him for another 3 years. acquiring a guy at any time should reset his years of service to 1 again.

If we need to put this in writing, we should. I agree with these sentiments: everything resets on a player when they go back into a draft pool. If I somehow managed to draft Fitzgerald again this season, I could keep him for 3 more seasons.

SI

sterlingice

07-17-2012, 05:41 AM

I would prefer to word proposal #2 like this:

No player may play on the same team for more than 3 consecutive years (includes partial seasons as a full season) --- What this essentially means with all the different ways of acquiring a player is:

a. You draft a player: You can play them the season you draft them and then keep them two additional seasons.
b. You trade for a player after keepers are declared: You can play them the remainder of the season and keep them two additional seasons.
c. You trade for a player before keepers are declared (off-season trade): This is the only situation you can keep a player three times so they are able to play for your team the full three consecutive seasons.

EDIT: It also needs to be decided if proposal #2 would be applied retroactively (count up seasons a player has played for a team and make that the new amount of years they have accrued with a team) or if it would be applied for all player acquisition after the proposal is approved.

I also think we need to include wording from the old trade rules: if a player is kept after the trade deadline of the third year, they are going back into the pool. You can't hold onto them the full three seasons and then trade them in the offseason. You have to make that decision in season 3: trade them before the deadline or lose them.

SI

Lathum

07-17-2012, 08:27 AM

If we need to put this in writing, we should. I agree with these sentiments: everything resets on a player when they go back into a draft pool. If I somehow managed to draft Fitzgerald again this season, I could keep him for 3 more seasons.

SI

I also think we need to include wording from the old trade rules: if a player is kept after the trade deadline of the third year, they are going back into the pool. You can't hold onto them the full three seasons and then trade them in the offseason. You have to make that decision in season 3: trade them before the deadline or lose them.

SI

I agree with both these

PackerFanatic

07-17-2012, 09:08 AM

I do as well - as soon as they hit the draft pool again, they are reset. No reason a team shouldn't able to get them again.

spleen1015

07-17-2012, 09:11 AM

My votes

1. No
2. Yes

PackerFanatic

07-17-2012, 09:34 AM

EDIT: It also needs to be decided if proposal #2 would be applied retroactively (count up seasons a player has played for a team and make that the new amount of years they have accrued with a team) or if it would be applied for all player acquisition after the proposal is approved.

I think it should be for players acquired after the rule - make it fair for everyone.

My votes..

1. Yes
2. Yes

Lathum

07-17-2012, 09:54 AM

1. Yes
2. Yes

ntndeacon

07-17-2012, 12:03 PM

Ok with this as proposal #1 to be voted on.

I would prefer to word proposal #2 like this:

No player may play on the same team for more than 3 consecutive years (includes partial seasons as a full season) --- What this essentially means with all the different ways of acquiring a player is:

a. You draft a player: You can play them the season you draft them and then keep them two additional seasons.
b. You trade for a player after keepers are declared: You can play them the remainder of the season and keep them two additional seasons.
c. You trade for a player before keepers are declared (off-season trade): This is the only situation you can keep a player three times so they are able to play for your team the full three consecutive seasons.

EDIT: It also needs to be decided if proposal #2 would be applied retroactively (count up seasons a player has played for a team and make that the new amount of years they have accrued with a team) or if it would be applied for all player acquisition after the proposal is approved.

I think we need to be careful about this. this wording sounds like I may not draft the same person 4years in a row two. I know that isn't the intent of this wording but that would be an unintended consequence. There needs to be something about years kept instead.

ntndeacon

07-17-2012, 12:09 PM

with the wording PF said...

1. abstain (as a new owner not sure I should vote on policies for new owners.)
2. yes

if with JAG's wording
1. abstain
2. NO!!!!

Julio Riddols

07-17-2012, 08:24 PM

I'm good with whatever rule gets made. Just excited to be part of a keeper league for a change.

Grover

07-17-2012, 08:34 PM

I'm good with whatever rule gets made. Just excited to be part of a keeper league for a change.

+1

samifan24

07-17-2012, 08:40 PM

1. Yes
2. No

sterlingice

07-17-2012, 09:08 PM

1. Yes
2. Yes, in principle (see below)

However, if we approve #2, there's going to be a clarification voting process where we talk about all of these various outs. Do we grandfather in players, do we remove the penalty for trades, etc- the various parts we have discussed? I'm not entirely sure what I voted yes on except that I do think we should have a 3 year keeper period max but I'm not sure what shape that takes.

SI

Lathum

07-17-2012, 09:15 PM

I think is we vote for the 3 year max anyone who would be released this year under that rule the owner gets to keep another season. Such as Sal with Peyton

JAG

07-18-2012, 06:43 AM

EDIT: Moving this to the next page so it's at the top of a new page instead of getting lost at the end of page 4.

JAG

07-18-2012, 06:45 AM

I think people are making proposal 2. more complicated than it needs to be. The spirit of the rule that we all seem to agree with is that you can't have a player on your team more than 3 years in a row without that player being exposed to the draft.

Q. Can you reacquire them in the draft and reset the clock?
A. Yes.

Q. Do partial seasons (as a result of in-season trades) count as part of that?
A. Yes, a partial season counts as one season towards the three season maximum.

Q. What happens if you have a player on your roster for three seasons because you drafted them and then kept them two years in a row after that?
A. They go back into the pool and after the third season is over you no longer have the rights to that player (no offseason trades of them after the third season).

Q. What if you traded a player in the off-season?
A. A player acquired by trade in the off-season becomes your keeper for their position and you can keep them three seasons in a row (you can use that player for three consecutive seasons before losing their rights).

Q. What if you pick up a player from the waiver wire?
A. You can keep them for two additional seasons after the season you picked them up (so you would have them roughly 2.5-3 seasons, possibly slightly less if you picked them up very close to the end of the year).

Q. What if you have a player on your roster you drafted two years in a row? How many years can they be kept?
A. The clock reset when they hit the draft so you could technically have them four years in a row if you kept them two seasons after the second time you drafted them.

Q. What about players that are already on rosters?
A. Players that are currently on rosters will be dealt with using the previous rules for keepers (can be kept for draft year + three seasons or two more seasons if acquired by in-season trade last season). Any player acquired after keepers are declared from this point forward will be dealt with under the new rules (I'm going by what seems to be the general consensus by people who have commented in thread).

If there is some part of the Q and A above you do not agree with, do not vote yes for 2. or change your vote if you have already voted for it, and mention which part you don't agree with.

I think is we vote for the 3 year max anyone who would be released this year under that rule the owner gets to keep another season. Such as Sal with Peyton

That doesn't make sense to me. Players like Peyton would've been released under the old rules and the new rules, so existing owners had opportunity to try and trade those players last season.

JAG

07-18-2012, 07:00 AM

Proposal votes thus far (7 votes needed to pass):

Proposal 1:
6 Yes
2 No
3 Abstain

Proposal 2:
8 Yes
1 No
2 Abstain

Still to vote: saldana

sterlingice

07-18-2012, 07:15 AM

You can change my vote on #2 to a solid yes with those clarifications.

SI

PackerFanatic

07-18-2012, 07:49 AM

Great clarifications, JAG - that makes sense to me!

PackerFanatic

07-18-2012, 07:50 AM

Also - do we even have a central location where all of our rules are laid out? Or are they kind of spread around posts on here? :)

JAG

07-18-2012, 08:05 AM

Also - do we even have a central location where all of our rules are laid out? Or are they kind of spread around posts on here? :)

All the rules are actually spread around multiple posts within this thread and in some former year posts as well. I will try to create one giant comprehensive post (in time, it's going to take a little while to gather everything) and then have Lathum make a link to it from his first post so it's easy to find and easy for us to reference anytime in the future.

Lathum

07-18-2012, 08:27 AM

That doesn't make sense to me. Players like Peyton would've been released under the old rules and the new rules, so existing owners had opportunity to try and trade those players last season.

aren't we voting basically on 3 or 4 years of eligibility? If so Sal would be able to keep Peyton this year. Am I missing something?

spleen1015

07-18-2012, 08:29 AM

aren't we voting basically on 3 or 4 years of eligibility? If so Sal would be able to keep Peyton this year. Am I missing something?

Last year was Manning's 4th on Sal's team is what JAG is saying, I believe.

Lathum

07-18-2012, 10:00 AM

Last year was Manning's 4th on Sal's team is what JAG is saying, I believe.

yeah, but at least one of those years was prior to having the keeper years rule in place. IIRC 09 was the first season of that rule.

PackerFanatic

07-18-2012, 10:02 AM

According to post 105, he kept Manning in 09, 10, and 11 - which is three years. He is not eligible to be kept under either interpretation of the rules this year.

Lathum

07-18-2012, 10:11 AM

According to post 105, he kept Manning in 09, 10, and 11 - which is three years. He is not eligible to be kept under either interpretation of the rules this year.

aha

now I get it. Bacause he didn't DRAFT Manning in 09

JAG

07-18-2012, 10:12 AM

Lathum, the previous rule wasn't in regards to years of eligibility, it was that you couldn't keep a player more than three times with 2009 being the first year this went into effect. Players that SI has marked with (4) basically fit that bill.

Because of how the previous rule was worded, drafted players could have been on another team's roster for four total years, playing once during the season they were drafted and then being kept three times in subsequent seasons. The rule change in proposal #2 is almost fixing a loophole in my opinion to do what the spirit of the rule change was (keep a player three years max).

JAG

07-18-2012, 10:13 AM

That's what I get for typing up long posts...:)

PackerFanatic

07-18-2012, 10:36 AM

Bingo.

ntndeacon

07-18-2012, 05:46 PM

withthe clarifications...
2. yes without reservations anymore.
I thought that the language needed to be fine tuned. I am happy with the result

Chief Rum

07-18-2012, 05:53 PM

You guys have a full roster of owners, right?

Julio Riddols

07-18-2012, 06:02 PM

I like the rules as posted above as well.

Danny

07-18-2012, 07:47 PM

Julio, so how about that trade? Andre and your choice of Ingram or beanie for newton

Lathum

07-18-2012, 07:49 PM

Julio, so how about that trade? Andre and your choice of Ingram or beanie for newton

We need to finalize the rules before any trades are made.

That being said I am offering Cutler and Hakeem Nicks up for trade

sterlingice

07-18-2012, 08:34 PM

I have Lynch, Marshall, and Colston for trade, looking for a better WR

SI

Danny

07-18-2012, 08:37 PM

Johnson is also available for picks possibly

JAG

07-19-2012, 06:45 AM

I'm gathering up the rules from looking at past threads and I found this amusing sequence from 2009 when we were voting on the 3 year keeper rule:

Would people be ok with an addendum for 2. that if a new player takes over a franchise, any keepers in their third year get a one-year extension? The idea being that a team that might be miserable doesn't have to start with really cruddy talent and gives the new owner more options.

I like this idea as well.

SI

I also like JAG's addendum as well.

I think I'm going to go with that. I can see the arguments against and I think they're reasonable, but I think more often than not newer players will be taking over teams that were less actively managed rather than juggernauts.

Proposal 1: Yes
Proposal 2: Yes

I'm also going to edit in something above for waiver wire pickups so make sure you agree with that too or let me know how I should handle it if you don't agree.

sterlingice

07-19-2012, 08:44 AM

Yeah, that was what I was referring to a couple of pages ago:
Front Office Football Central - View Single Post - The FOFC Keeper League 2012 (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showpost.php?p=2688639&postcount=101)

SI

JAG

07-19-2012, 08:47 AM

Well, that was two pages ago. You can't expect me to keep up. :)

JAG

07-19-2012, 09:16 AM

The comprehensive rules post is going to take a bit longer still. I need some clarification from TLK on a few things. We haven't really been too great at laying things out clearly other than what we needed to run things, at some point we sort of dropped (or at least weren't consistent with) parts of the original league constitution, mostly it seems due to practical reasons, partly because we didn't detail the result of a rules change. After we take care of these initial proposals and open offseason trading again, we may want to make a couple more proposals after I organize things seeing as we should have some time before we need to declare keepers and start the draft (historically we've started drafting around August 9-13th or so). As a tentative schedule, here's what I'd propose:

(when first two proposals are done): Offseason trading reopened.

August 8th: Keeper declaration due date.

August 13th: Drafting begins at 10am EST with 12 hour limit. The draft clock will operate between 10am EST - 12am EST Monday-Friday.

August 20th: Drafting continues with a 2 hour time limit, same hours of operation for the draft clock.

In recent years we've had no problems mostly or completely finishing the draft before the 2 hour clock starts, but it just gives us some urgency if for some reason things dragged on.

Lathum

07-19-2012, 09:56 AM

Molly will be voting at some point soon. She is away on a business trip but will be done with it today.

In other news being home alone with a 2 year old for a week sucks.

MollyMurphy

07-19-2012, 02:44 PM

1. Yes
2. Yes- I think players should only be kept a max of 3 seasons.

saldana

07-19-2012, 05:43 PM

Hey all...sorry for not being part of the conversations...this has been a travel week for me with work...I think my votes are irrelevant at this point, but i will make them anyway.

1 yes
2 no

I think the extra year is a nice way to thank new owners for joining the league...part of me does think that the other way is better...if jerry Jones sells the cowboys, the new owner doesn't get automatic extensions to the guys about to be free agents, but I am fine with giving the new gang here a bit of a break.

For 2, I think it is kind of silly that we are changing a rule that has actually never been enforced yet.

JAG

07-19-2012, 07:02 PM

Final proposal votes (7 votes needed to pass):

Proposal 1 (new owners receive 1 final season from otherwise expiring keepers):
7 Yes
2 No
3 Abstain

Proposal 1 passes --- This affects the following keepers for this season:

Former AoB: No change.
Former Vic's Heroes: (4) Steven Jackson becomes (3) Steven Jackson
Former Insomniacs: (4) Eli Manning and (4) DeSean Jackson become (3) Eli Manning and (3) DeSean Jackson
Former Shaka's BS: (4) Michael Turner becomes (3) Michael Turner
Former SSR: No change.

Proposal 2 (players can't be kept more than three consecutive seasons without entering the draft):
8 Yes
1 No
2 Abstain

Proposal 2 passes --- This rule will now be in effect for all player acquisition means from this point forward (trades / draft / waiver pickups), all players currently on rosters are grandfathered in under the previous rule (players cannot be kept more than 3 seasons).

JAG

07-19-2012, 08:36 PM

NOTE: Change in draft order for some teams

I've been in PM contact with TLK and Lathum regarding the issue of draft order for this and future years. Long ago before we expanded the playoffs, there used to be three brackets and things were pretty straightforward with what teams ended up with whatever draft picks their finish would warrant. Since then, we expanded the field of playoff teams and combined the three brackets into two, giving certain teams bye weeks the first week of the playoffs, but we never spelled out exactly how we would sort out teams that lost in the opening rounds of the playoffs. For this year, we decided to sort them out via coin flip which I just ran on random.org. I'm ok with this for future years, but if someone has a strong preference for another method, I'm willing to listen.

The exact details of how we got to this order will all be part of the rules post I have almost completed, but in short, when Lathum posted the draft order earlier, he was using what Fleaflicker spat out as its version of our final order. However, the way the league has been run previously gives us some slightly different results. The draft order for this season will be the following:

1st / 3rd / 5th / 7th / 9th etc... round:
1. Southside Roughnecks / Cam Pain 2012
2. Sal's Transgenders
3. All On Black / Roadkill Cafe
4. The Insomniacs / Blue Feltvet
5. Shaka's Big Shooters / Molly Murphys (won coin flip with The FOFC All-Stars)
6. The FOFC All-Stars (lost coin flip with Shaka's Big Shooters / Molly Murphys)
7. Touchdown Mafia (won coin flip with Gridiron Warriors)
8. Gridiron Warriors (lost coin flip with Touchdown Mafia)
9. Vic's Heroes / Klein Bottles
10. Lathum Brew Crew
11. Callous Dowboys
12. Houston Hippopotami

(reversing order every even round as per snake drafts)

Julio Riddols

07-21-2012, 08:26 AM

Looks good to me.

So after the rules are posted, trades can begin?

Grover

07-21-2012, 04:22 PM

Fourth, sweet

JAG

07-22-2012, 08:46 PM

I think I've got most of the important stuff here. Where some things aren't clear, I specify that.

FOFC Keeper League Rules

Playoffs:

1. The top three seeds from each division are selected for the playoffs. The top team in each conference gets a bye. Week 14 is the wildcard week where the 2nd and 3rd place finishers in each division play each other. The two teams that lose the wildcard games receive the 7th and 8th picks in the first round of the following year's draft (and all subsequent snake draft picks). The order of these two teams is determined by coin flip (random).

2. Week 15, the first and second seeded teams play the wildcard winners. The winners move on to the Championship round. The losers play the following week in the Third Place game.

3. Week 16, the final two teams play for the Championship and the losers from the week before play in the Third Place game. The team that wins the Championship receives the 12th pick in the first round of the following year's draft and the team that loses receives the 11th pick. The team that wins the Third Place receives the 9th pick in the first round, the loser of that game receives the 10th pick in the first round.

Loser's bracket:

1. Starting week 14, the teams that do not qualify for the playoffs are in a bracket of their own with the team that wins gaining the first overall pick in the following year's draft. Week 14, the 7th and 8th place teams receive a bye with the 9th through 12th teams playing each other. The winners advance. The two teams that lose the wildcard games receive the 5th and 6th picks in the first round of the following year's draft (and all subsequent snake draft picks). The order of these two teams is determined by coin flip (random).

2. Week 15, the 7th and 8th place teams play the 9th-12th place teams that won the week before. The winners advance to the Loser Bowl (ironically), the losers advance to the 3rd Overall Pick bowl.

3. Week 16 are the remaining two games. The team that wins the Loser Bowl receives the first overall pick in next year's draft with the loser receiving the second overall pick. The winner of the 3rd Overall Pick bowl gains the third overall pick and the loser receives the 4th overall pick.

Trading Rules

All trades

All trades are subject to 24 hour review. If five owners veto a trade during that time period, the trade is nullified.

In-Season Trades

Players and/or draft picks for the following season's draft may be traded between teams up until the trade deadline. The trade deadline was previously specified by the rules as the Saturday after Thanksgiving, but is currently listed as Week 10 (11/6-11/12) and it is unlikely we have used the 'Saturday after Thanksgiving' rule in a number of seasons.

Offseason trades

1. All players and/or draft picks for the upcoming draft may be traded between teams as soon as the Championship game has been completed and until keepers are announced for the next season. The keeper announcement signifies the start of a new season.. Any players received in a trade become keepers for the acquiring team.

2. If a player is unkeepable (they have been on a team for three seasons as outlined in the Keeper section of the Rules), that player may not be traded in the offseason.

Keeper Rules:

1. You may keep up to 1 QB, 1 RB, 1 WR/TE, and 1 rookie. If you do not keep a player at one or more of these positions, you will be awarded an extra draft pick at the end of the draft to allow you to fill out your roster. Note that a rookie keeper year counts the same as a regular keeper year towards the three season limit outlined in point 2. below.

2. No player may be on your team for more than 3 consecutive seasons without being exposed to the draft. Being exposed to the draft resets this eligibility (e.g. if a player is drafted two years in a row, they could potentially be on the same team four total consecutive years). The following situations outlines the various keeper situations:

a. A player is acquired via the draft: You use the player that season and can keep them up to two additional times for a total of three seasons.
b. A player is acquired by trade after keepers are declared (in-season): You use the player that season and can keep them up to two additional times for a total of 2.5-3 seasons.
c. A player is acquired by trade before keepers are declared (off-season): You can keep the player three total times to use them for a total of three seasons.
d. A player is picked up off waivers / free agency: You can use the player for that season and keep them two addition seasons for a total of 2-3 seasons.

3. At the end of the third season on a player's team, a keeper is a free agent and the player does not have off-season rights to trade them or keep them again.

4. If a new owner takes over a team, they receive one final season of eligibility for any otherwise expiring keepers.

Starting lineup requirements:

1 QB
1 RB
2 WR
1 RB / WR
1 WR / TE
1 K
1 D/ST

6 bench slots

Tiebreakers:

Individual Game Tiebreakers

1. Higher bench points total
2. Most total starter Combined TDs
3. Highest individual starter score

Break Regular Season Ties No

Power & Playoff Rank Tiebreakers
1. Best head-to-head record
2. Best division record (same division only)
3. Most average points/game
4. Hardest schedule (record)
5. Hardest schedule (points)

Transaction Rules

Add/Drop Deadline None
Trading Deadline Week 10 Tue 11/6-Mon 11/12
Trade Review Period 24 Hours
Enforce Roster Minimums Yes
Prevent Cuts After Game Start Yes
Who is Placed on Waivers Dropped players AND all free agents after game start (recommended)
How Are Claims Resolved Waiver Priority
Time on Waivers After Drop 24 Hours
Lock Recently Added Yes
Process Game-Start Waivers On Wednesday
Reset Order Weekly Yes
Transaction Limits Unlimited

Scoring rules:

Passing

1 point for every 20 Passing Yards ALL
9 extra points when total Passing Yards is greater than or equal to 500 ALL
3 extra points when total Passing Yards is between 300 and 399 (inclusive)
6 extra points when total Passing Yards is between 400 and 499 (inclusive)
3 points for every 2 Pt Conversion Passing ALL
6 points for every Passing TD ALL
3 extra points for every Passing TD of 50 or more yards ALL
-1 point for every Interception ALL
-1 point for every 2 Times Sacked (-0.5 per) ALL

Rushing

1 point for every 10 Rushing Yards (0.1 per) ALL
15 extra points when total Rushing Yards is greater than or equal to 300 ALL
3 extra points when total Rushing Yards is between 100 and 149 (inclusive) ALL
6 extra points when total Rushing Yards is between 150 and 199 (inclusive) ALL
9 extra points when total Rushing Yards is between 200 and 249 (inclusive) ALL
12 extra points when total Rushing Yards is between 250 and 299 (inclusive) ALL
3 points for every 2 Pt Conversion Rushing ALL
6 points for every Rushing TD ALL
3 extra points for every Rushing TD of 50 or more yards ALL

Receiving

1 point for every 10 Receiving Yards (0.1 per) ALL
15 extra points when total Receiving Yards is greater than or equal to 300 ALL
3 extra points when total Receiving Yards is between 100 and 149 (inclusive) ALL
6 extra points when total Receiving Yards is between 150 and 199 (inclusive) ALL
9 extra points when total Receiving Yards is between 200 and 249 (inclusive) ALL
12 extra points when total Receiving Yards is between 250 and 299 (inclusive) ALL
3 points for every 2 Pt Conversion Receiving ALL
6 points for every Receiving TD ALL
3 extra points for every Receiving TD of 50 or more yards ALL

Misc

-1 point for every Fumble Lost ALL

Kicking

3 points for every Field Goal Made ALL
2 extra points for every Field Goal Made of 55 or more yards ALL
1 extra point for every Field Goal Made between 45 and 54 yards (inclusive) ALL
1 point for every XP ALL
-1 point for every XP Missed ALL

Returning

6 points for every Kick Return TD TM
6 points for every Punt Return TD TM

Defense

2 points for every Interception ALL
1 point for every Sack ALL
2 points for every Fumble Recovered TM
2 points for every Safety ALL
6 points for every Defensive TD ALL
3 extra points for every Defensive TD between 50 and 99 yards (inclusive) ALL
1 point for every XP Blocked ALL
1 point for every FG Blocked ALL
1 point for every Punt Blocked ALL
10 extra points when total Points Allowed is exactly 0 TM
7 extra points when total Offensive Points Allowed (FG, Pass TD, Rush TD) is between 1 and 6 (inclusive) TM
4 extra points when total Offensive Points Allowed (FG, Pass TD, Rush TD) is between 7 and 9 (inclusive) TM
3 extra points when total Offensive Points Allowed (FG, Pass TD, Rush TD) is between 10 and 16 (inclusive) TM

Lathum

07-22-2012, 08:58 PM

Thanks JAG

Hakeem Nicks and Jay Cutler are now on the block

Julio Riddols

07-22-2012, 10:21 PM

I'll put Roethlisberger on the block if anyone is interested. The rest of my team I doubt anyone will want.. Cam would cost an arm and a leg if someone wanted to pry him away especially since I named the team after him.

JAG

07-23-2012, 02:58 AM

Past League Champions:
2004 (http://operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=29613) - Lathum's Brew Crew
2005 (http://operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=40277) - Vic's Heroes
2006 (http://operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=51837) - Callous Dowboys
2007 (http://operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=60135) - Callous Dowboys
2008 (http://operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=67125) - Shaka's Big Shooters
2009 (http://operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=73767) - Houston Hippopotami
2010 (http://operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=78626) – The FOFC All-Stars
2011 (http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=81851) – Houston Hippopotami

JAG

07-23-2012, 03:17 AM

ok, invite sent to Danny for AoB and MollyMurphy for Shakas big shooters

Danny, check the email you PM'ed Lathum when you get a free moment from your move, you're still showing as not having accepted the invitation to the league (maybe caught by spam filter?)

Also, I updated the draft order on the Fleaflicker site so it should match the list in Post 230.

JAG

07-23-2012, 09:58 AM

Julio and I have a trade up for review:

Callous Dowboys give:
RB Ray Rice
5th round pick (59th overall)

Cam Pain 2012 gives:
1st round pick (1st overall)

Rolling the dice to start off the year...

sterlingice

07-23-2012, 10:11 AM

Rice vs Matthews seems like a good "problem" to have and now you can go get Fitzgerald or whoever ends up being best in the pool. Not much of a dice roll there ;)

SI

JAG

07-23-2012, 10:40 AM

The dice roll is because Mathews has a pretty checkered injury history. If he puts it together and stays healthy this year, then things should work out great.

spleen1015

07-23-2012, 02:54 PM

I'm ready to draft!

Julio Riddols

07-23-2012, 07:39 PM

Pretty stoked to get my hands on Ray Rice.. Hopefully the Ravens use him like a cheap hooker this year. He would be a high 1st round pick in any draft, but in a keeper league he'd almost definitely be number 1. Nice to get good value for the pick.

PackerFanatic

07-23-2012, 07:55 PM

I am hoping so too - but because I am keeping him in another league :)

sterlingice

07-24-2012, 05:56 AM

I mean, ultimately you would have gotten a chance to pick whichever of Matthews/Rice that JAG didn't keep at 1.1 but this locks you into the one you wanted

SI

Lathum

07-24-2012, 08:34 AM

Julio, just offered you a deal when you get a chance to check on it.

JAG

07-24-2012, 09:32 AM

Julio's a popular guy.

Lathum

07-24-2012, 05:18 PM

[U]
All On Black- Available[/B]
(2) Arian Foster RB HOU
Mark Ingram RB NO
Kevin Smith RB DET
Beanie Wells RB ARI
Antonio Brown WR PIT
Plaxico Burress WR NYJ
(2) Andre Johnson WR HOU
Mario Manningham WR SF
Denarius Moore WR OAK
Carson Palmer QB OAK
(3) Matt Schaub QB HOU
Rob Gronkowski TE NE
David Akers K SF
Detroit Lions TM DET

Vicks Heros- Available
Matt Forte RB CHI
(4) Steven Jackson RB STL
Darren Sproles RB NO
DeAngelo Williams RB CAR
(2) Miles Austin WR DAL
Steve Breaston WR KC
Stevie Johnson WR BUF
Santana Moss WR WAS
Jerome Simpson WR MIN
Wes Welker WR NE
Mike Williams WR TB
(2) Tom Brady QB NE
Nick Novak K SD
Green Bay Packers TM

The Insomniacs- available
Delone Carter RB IND
BenJarvus Green-Ellis RB CIN
Shonn Greene RB NYJ
Pierre Thomas RB NO
Ryan Torain RB WAS
Anquan Boldin WR BAL
(4) DeSean Jackson WR PHI
Michael Jenkins WR MIN
Steve Smith WR CAR
Nate Washington WR TEN
(4) Eli Manning QB NYG
Fred Davis TE WAS
Matt Bryant K ATL
Cincinnati Bengals TM CIN

Southside Roughnecks- available
(3) Marion Barber RB CHI
Cedric Benson RB CIN
Ryan Grant RB GB
Mike Tolbert RB CAR
Doug Baldwin WR SEA
Austin Collie WR IND
Early Doucet WR ARI
Devery Henderson WR NO
(3) Jeremy Maclin WR PHI
Torrey Smith WR BAL
Cam Newton QB CAR
(2) Ben Roethlisberger QB PIT
Sebastian Janikowski K OAK
Philadelphia Eagles TM PHI

Owners looking for a team:
1. Danny
2. NTN Deacon
3. Grover
4. Julio Riddols

Gridiron Warriors-PackerFanatic
(4) Frank Gore RB SF
Fred Jackson RB BUF
James Starks RB GB
Daniel Thomas RB MIA
Vincent Brown WR SD
Eric Decker WR DEN
Malcom Floyd WR SD
Jabar Gaffney WR NE
Greg Jennings WR GB
(2) Aaron Rodgers QB GB
Alex Smith QB SF
Jermichael Finley TE GB
Matt Prater K DEN
Chicago Bears TM CHI

The FOFC All Stars- SamiFan24
Donald Brown RB IND
Jamaal Charles RB KC
(2) Darren McFadden RB OAK
DeMarco Murray RB DAL
Pierre Garcon WR WAS
Lance Moore WR NO
(3) Roddy White WR ATL
Joe Flacco QB BAL
(4) Philip Rivers QB SD
Owen Daniels TE HOU
Brandon Pettigrew TE DET
Stephen Gostkowski K NE
San Francisco 49ers TM SF
Baltimore Ravens TM BAL

Callous Doughboys-JAG
Michael Bush RB CHI
Ryan Mathews RB SD
(2) Ray Rice RB BAL
Ben Tate RB HOU
(2) Dez Bryant WR DAL
A. J. Green WR CIN
(2) Calvin Johnson WR DET
Laurent Robinson WR JAC
Matthew Stafford QB DET
Tim Tebow QB NYJ
Aaron Hernandez TE NE
John Kasay K NO
New England Patriots TM NE
Seattle Seahawks TM SEA

Sals Transgenders- Saldana
Ahmad Bradshaw RB NYG
Reggie Bush RB MIA
Michael Crabtree WR SF
Percy Harvin WR MIN
(2) Vincent Jackson WR TB
James Jones WR GB
(4) Reggie Wayne WR IND
Jake Locker QB TEN
(4) Peyton Manning QB DEN
(2) Colt McCoy QB CLE
Vernon Davis TE SF
Robbie Gould K CHI
New York Jets TM NYJ
Tennessee Titans TM TEN

Houston Hippopotami- Sterlingice
(2) Jahvid Best RB DET
Kendall Hunter RB SF
Felix Jones RB DAL
Marshawn Lynch RB SEA
(2) LeSean McCoy RB PHI
Marques Colston WR NO
(4) Larry Fitzgerald WR ARI
Brandon Marshall WR CHI
Demaryius Thomas WR DEN
Damian Williams WR TEN
(2) Drew Brees QB NO
Mark Sanchez QB NYJ
Mason Crosby K GB
Denver Broncos TM DEN

Shakas Big Shooters- MollyMurphy
Toby Gerhart RB MIN
Adrian Peterson RB MIN
(2) C. J. Spiller RB BUF
Jonathan Stewart RB CAR
(4) Michael Turner RB ATL
(2) Dwayne Bowe WR KC
Kenny Britt WR TEN
Nate Burleson WR DET
Riley Cooper WR PHI
Julio Jones WR ATL
Matt Hasselbeck QB TEN
(2) Michael Vick QB PHI
Alex Henery K PHI
Atlanta Falcons TM ATL

Touchdown MAfia- Spleen
(2) Roy Helu RB WAS
(2) Maurice Jones-Drew RB JAC
(2) Willis McGahee RB DEN
Rashard Mendenhall RB PIT
Victor Cruz WR NYG
(2) Brandon Lloyd WR NE
Jordy Nelson WR GB
Ryan Fitzpatrick QB BUF
(4) Matt Ryan QB ATL
Antonio Gates TE SD
Jimmy Graham TE NO
Dan Bailey K DAL
Dallas Cowboys TM DAL
Houston Texans TM HOU

Lathums Brew Crew- Lathum
(2) LeGarrette Blount RB TB
Brandon Jacobs RB SF
(2) Chris Johnson RB TEN
Deion Branch WR NE
(3) Hakeem Nicks WR NYG
Mike Wallace WR PIT
(2) Jay Cutler QB CHI
Andy Dalton QB CIN
Tony Romo QB DAL
Tony Gonzalez TE ATL
Jason Hanson K DET
Neil Rackers K WAS
Oakland Raiders TM OAK
Pittsburgh Steelers TM PIT

SI

Based off this list with the current rules is this the last year a player with a (2) can be kept?