The Sports Media Thread

[Logan]

Inspired by Ksyrup, use this thread to discuss any and all aspects of sports reporting. Could be reporter/personality specific (hello, Bayless bashers), or it could be Deadspin-lite.

[Logan]

Pete Thamel is Leaving the New York Times for Sports Illustrated | The Big Lead (http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php/2012/07/31/pete-thamel-is-leaving-the-new-york-times-for-sports-illustrated/)

[Ksyrup]

Yeah, just posted in the Random thread about good riddance to Doug Gottleib to CBS, as well as Thamel to SI and Brett McMurphy to ESPN. Also, Darren Rovell left NBC for ESPN recently.

ESPN has lost Erin Andrews to Fox and Michelle Beadle to NBC as well.

Lots of repositioning going on out there.

[Logan]

As I said in the other thread, I get a kick out of stuff like this:

ESPN Finally Covered The NHL, Thanks To The Olympics (http://deadspin.com/5930382/espn-finally-covered-the-nhl-thanks-to-the-olympics)

http://i46.tinypic.com/wi105h.jpg

I mean...that has to be intentional mischief. I can't imagine how else the Columbus Blue Jackets and their potential opponents could be forced into a standard soccer graphic.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Lady H_B and I have been watching a fair bit of the Olympics. We usually start watching around 9 pm, allowing us to skip over the commercials.

My wife has grown to loathe Andrea Kramer and her post-swimming interviews. In fact, I have taken to muting Andrea Kramer's questions and then unmuting for the answers to appease her.

[spleen1015]

Kramer was awesome interviewing Lochte after he finished 4th last night....

[panerd]

Inspired by Ksyrup, use this thread to discuss any and all aspects of sports reporting. Could be reporter/personality specific (hello, Bayless bashers), or it could be Deadspin-lite.

Didn't even realize there was another side on Skip Bayless. :)

And I definitely never choose to watch him but was just at the gym today and the guy next to me on the treadmills had on the Stephen A Smith/Bayless debate show. Good lord I have to admit I kept looking over like I was watching a car wreck on his tv. There can't be anyone who actually watches this show for information or entertainment can there?

[sterlingice]

How long before this just becomes the "ESPN sucks" thread? :)

SI

[Grover]

I wish Rovell would just disappear completely.

[sterlingice]

Didn't even realize there was another side on Skip Bayless. :)

And I definitely never choose to watch him but was just at the gym today and the guy next to me on the treadmills had on the Stephen A Smith/Bayless debate show. Good lord I have to admit I kept looking over like I was watching a car wreck on his tv. There can't be anyone who actually watches this show for information or entertainment can there?

Maybe you just didn't realize his family has been kidnapped by a psychopath (maybe even Bayless or Smith) and for every hour he doesn't watch either that or sumo wrestler porn, one of his family members dies. But he's a navy seal and to prove his mental toughness, took the more difficult of the two as some sort of test.

SI

[Logan]

How long before this just becomes the "ESPN sucks" thread? :)

SI

Close, I originally had this titled "ESPN Fail" as I said in the Random thread.

[panerd]

Maybe you just didn't realize his family has been kidnapped by a psychopath (maybe even Bayless or Smith) and for every hour he doesn't watch either that or sumo wrestler porn, one of his family members dies. But he's a navy seal and to prove his mental toughness, took the more difficult of the two as some sort of test.

SI

:D

And I realize that you have to debate differing viewpoints or the show would be pretty bland but these guys were the exact opposite extreme on every topic. I wonder if they keep notebooks just to keep their nonsense straight for future shows.

[rowech]

Kramer was awesome interviewing Lochte after he finished 4th last night....

Kramer as a "sideline reporter" is light years better than anybody else. Not even close for my money. She just doesn't have "the look."

[Ksyrup]

All sideline reporters are meaningless. They either ask questions that are so obvious they don't need an answer, or elicit non-answers from the athletes/coaches. I didn't see it, but I heard she asked Lochte whether that race went as well as he had hoped. Really?

[Grover]

She just doesn't have "the look."

Birds everywhere disagree.

On a serious note, we have to realize that sports is not what Andrea Kramer does.

[DanGarion]

Birds everywhere disagree.

On a serious note, we have to realize that sports is not what Andrea Kramer does.

It's not?

http://i.imgur.com/sIHJq.jpg http://i.imgur.com/MxEQ1l.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/NSCmal.jpg

[Grover]

Hahaha, I was thinking of Andrea Mitchell.

Christ.

[DanGarion]

Hahaha, I was thinking of Andrea Mitchell.

Christ.

Honestly I don't know who either of them is. :)

[Ksyrup]

Hilarious.

Sports Journalist Realignment Out Of Control, Driven By*Greed - Troy Nunes Is An Absolute Magician (http://mobile.nunesmagician.com/2012/7/31/3206788/sports-journalist-realignment-out-of-control-driven-by-greed)

[britrock88]

Hahaha, I was thinking of Andrea Mitchell.

Christ.

I followed your original comment, then Wiki'd Kremer and figured it out. Easy to confuse them.

[Logan]

Dan Wolken ‏@DanWolken

To answer questions, yes, The Daily laid off sports staff today, including me. I'll be fine. Enjoyed the opportunity tremendously.

Not sure who else is affected.

[Ksyrup]

Close enough. Any reason to embarrass Craig James.

Craig James needs your help paying off debt from his failed Senate campaign (http://www.awfulannouncing.com/2012-articles/august/craig-james-needs-your-paying-off-debt-from-his-failed-senate-campaign.html)

[Logan]

I posted about this in the MLB thread, speculating that MLB must control all teams' Facebook accounts if they could all be hacked at the same time.

Yesterday's Flood Of Berserk Baseball Team Facebook Posts Were Made By A Rogue MLB Employee (http://deadspin.com/5931486)

The incident sheds light on one of MLB's lasting issues: the control MLB Advanced Media attempts to wield upon anything affiliated with Major League Baseball. MLBAM runs all the teams' web pages, Facebook pages, and, presumably, Twitter feeds. That's a lot of responsibility—and power—put in the hands of people who apparently aren't being paid very much. It also appears the roles of MLB employees (both inside and outside of the MLBAM arm) can be, at times, ambiguous or confusing.

[Logan]

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17wo2z61f50rvjpg/xlarge.jpg

[Ksyrup]

Chris Berman got a long-term extension on ESPN's 33rd anniversary. I know we're all thrilled that this will also likely extend his run in Applebee's commercials, too.

Speaking of sports guys who used to be liked, I can't believe Rick Reilly exists for this kind of shit. I'd expect to read something this witty in a middle school newspaper.

Rick Reilly: Beware the Hilltoppers - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/8348024/beware-hilltoppers)

[Ksyrup]

I wish Rovell would just disappear completely.


darren rovell‏<s>@</s>darrenrovell
Never thought I'd say this: I'm in a video game. I report your endorsement deals in <s>#</s>NBA2K13 (https://twitter.com/search/?q=%23NBA2K13&src=hash)

[Grover]

Ugh.

[Easy Mac]

I don't play video games, I don't watch ESPN during non-live sports hours, I don't often use twitter, and I don't watch CNBC, so I can honestly say I don't think I've ever been introduced to what I've been told are the horrors of Darren Rovell.

[Grover]

Social Media & Technology: 100 Twitter Rules To Live By — CNBC Tech Check with Darren Rovell - CNBC (http://www.cnbc.com/id/43759244/The_100_Twitter_Rules_To_Live_By)

This is why most people despise him.

[Ksyrup]

He's no longer with NBC. He's back at ESPN. Or, as he tweeted earlier today, he's been with ESPN for 18.4% of its existence.

He does post about some interesting things, but damn the guy is so full of himself. He's more famous on twitter for being a twitter etiquette nazi than anything.

[Ksyrup]

Ha! Yeah, that article is awesome. I'm sure it's been done already, but someone should fake-tweet Rovell asking for a RT on his birthday.

[sterlingice]

Chris Berman got a long-term extension on ESPN's 33rd anniversary. I know we're all thrilled that this will also likely extend his run in Applebee's commercials, too.

Speaking of sports guys who used to be liked, I can't believe Rick Reilly exists for this kind of shit. I'd expect to read something this witty in a middle school newspaper.

Rick Reilly: Beware the Hilltoppers - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/8348024/beware-hilltoppers)

It is crappy writing, to be sure, but if Saban doesn't want to hear it, maybe he should actually schedule another decent non-conference game. Michigan, certainly a quality game. Can't say much about Western Kentucky, Florida Atlantic, or Western Carolina. There's not even a halfway decent team there

SI

[Chief Rum]

He's no longer with NBC. He's back at ESPN. Or, as he tweeted earlier today, he's been with ESPN for 18.4% of its existence.

He does post about some interesting things, but damn the guy is so full of himself. He's more famous on twitter for being a twitter etiquette nazi than anything.

Twitiquette.

[Matthean]

It is crappy writing, to be sure, but if Saban doesn't want to hear it, maybe he should actually schedule another decent non-conference game. Michigan, certainly a quality game. Can't say much about Western Kentucky, Florida Atlantic, or Western Carolina. There's not even a halfway decent team there

How many teams take on decent teams for their OOC schedules? Michigan last year beat more teams that went to bowl games than anybody else ever had. And yet, their OOC schedule was Western Michigan, ND, Eastern Michigan, and SDSU. The closest game outside of ND was 21 points.

[Ksyrup]

Eh, it was a stupid article both for the writing and because he took the bait. Saban wasn't yelling at the media, he was using the media to make a point to his players. That was directed at his team. I'm not sure what is worse - Reilly not realizing that, or Reilly knowing it but still writing that horrible article.

[JonInMiddleGA]

This is why most people despise him.

{scratches head}

At least 80% of that is solid advice, very very few items in it are purely ill conceived.

Damned if I see the problem here.

[Ksyrup]

It's because he thought he was important enough that people would take his unsolicited advice. Usually, someone unlikeable doesn't get a very favorable reaction when they try to tell others how to conduct their own business.

[JonInMiddleGA]

It's because he thought he was important enough that people would take his unsolicited advice. Usually, someone unlikeable doesn't get a very favorable reaction when they try to tell others how to conduct their own business.

{shrug} Seemed like a pretty rational column topic to me. Off hand I'd say he's the most recognizable name in sports business journalism, and he's just shy of a quarter million followers.

I wonder if the number of critics put off by that sort of advice (which is extremely common to see from social media gurus) have that many followers combined?

[Ksyrup]

I don't think it matters to the issue of what advice a putz should be offering to the public. I follow the guy, but that doesn't mean I respect him or want his advice on anything.

[Logan]

Didn't Rovell also have some kind of creepy stalking obsession of some girl on Twitter?

[Ksyrup]

Yep. I think it was during the pre-Super Bowl party week?

[JonInMiddleGA]

I don't think it matters to the issue of what advice a putz should be offering to the public. I follow the guy, but that doesn't mean I respect him or want his advice on anything.

Then why are you following him? He's a putz, you don't want his advice, don't respect him yadda yadda yadda.

Then, umm, unfollow him maybe?

There's a lot of pretty good stuff in there for both novices & regular Twits alike, (although most of it is pretty basic info that professionals already know).

Ultimately {shrug} though. Just goes to show that the internet is a place where people will bitch no matter what anybody does.

[Ksyrup]

I follow him for information. Pure and simple. You take the good with the bad. And actually, he's so clueless about how universally disliked he is that following him, on the occasions that he trips himself up, is extremely entertaining. I've never read his columns and wouldn't have known abou the twittiquette thing if it hadn't become a big thing on twitter.

[Logan]

Then why are you following him? He's a putz, you don't want his advice, don't respect him yadda yadda yadda.

Then, umm, unfollow him maybe?

There's a lot of pretty good stuff in there for both novices & regular Twits alike, (although most of it is pretty basic info that professionals already know).

Ultimately {shrug} though. Just goes to show that the internet is a place where people will bitch no matter what anybody does.

You need to respect a guy in order to get use out of actual sports business tweets? It's when Rovell goes off on his tangents unrelated to his job that people get annoyed. Or when he uses only a sliver of "sports business" to say something like "LeBron James made $126,237 in the first half of tonight's game, which is more than the annual income of 79% of Americans".

SHOCKING how this one sided.

[Ksyrup]

Yeah, the class warfare stuff he posts gets people a bit edgy. But even then, that usually spawns stuff completely entertaining, like when someone dies and you get someone posting as Rovell with a "Joe Smith's coffin cost $69,067 and would take someone working at minimum wage 9,525 hours to afford" type tweet. Good times.

[korme]

Heard rumblings that Russillo is getting his name on the SVP Show soon, but now I can't find anything about it. Hrrm.

[digamma]

Rovell's a tool. I follow him for the train wreck.

A few examples:

Rules, Schmules. I tweet my dinner. (http://www.uproxx.com/media/2011/12/darren-rovell-is-still-policing-twitter-douchebagilly/)

Playboy girls are ugly. (http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php/2012/02/05/darren-rovell-complained-about-the-lack-of-talent-at-playboys-super-bowl-party/)

Duped. Sorry. (http://deadspin.com/5916245/how-a-teenager-with-a-fake-escort-service-duped-darren-rovell-and-cnbc)

Bomani Jonesed (http://storify.com/myoder84/bomani-jones-vs-darren-rovell)

There was also an amazing thread that I can't get to load on EDSBS (http://www.everydayshouldbesaturday.com/2012/2/16/2802236/darren-rovells-century-of-legendary-tweets) with fake Darren Rovell tweets throughout history.

But, yes, he has klout.

[JonInMiddleGA]

You need to respect a guy in order to get use out of actual sports business tweets? It's when Rovell goes off on his tangents unrelated to his job that people get annoyed.

Except that, in today's landscape, basic good practices in social media ARE very much sports business.

I'm fine with him being labeled as an annoying git or whatever, he could very well be the second coming of Rick Reilly for all I know (I read probably two dozen Rovell pieces a year & those are usually cut & dried kind of things)

I just don't get that particular column being the source of major grief with the possible exception of people who either recognize how shitty their own feed is because of the advice they haven't followed (and don't like being reminded of it) or are too stupid to know when they're getting good advice.

[Ksyrup]

The advice - whether it's 100% correct or whatever - is irrelevant. It all stems from who it's coming from and his self-importance for thinking he is the arbiter on how to use twitter and has license to tell people who don't respect him what they are doing wrong.

[JonInMiddleGA]

It all stems from who it's coming from and his self-importance for thinking he is the arbiter on how to use twitter

You realize that nearly everything in the column is pretty standard advice for any professional social media, right? About all he's done is tweak the verbiage for sports stuff in a few places & break bigger points down into smaller ones in order to get to one hundred.

There's a few points in there that are kinda contentious but there's not much in there that's exactly rocket science.

Problem is, the vast majority of the Twittersphere isn't as savvy as they could/should be, even basic stuff is probably helpful for those smart enough to follow good advice.

[Ksyrup]

You realize that nearly everything in the column is pretty standard advice for any professional social media, right? About all he's done is tweak the verbiage for sports stuff in a few places & break bigger points down into smaller ones in order to get to one hundred.

There's a few points in there that are kinda contentious but there's not much in there that's exactly rocket science.

Problem is, the vast majority of the Twittersphere isn't as savvy as they could/should be, even basic stuff is probably helpful for those smart enough to follow good advice.

I don't think you understand. He could be quoting from the Book of Twitiquette. The reaction to it is because it's him, not whether what he is communicating is right or wrong.

[spleen1015]

I'm going to try to give up my dependence on ESPN for sports news. I am already watching NFL Network and MLB Network for those sports.

What should I do about the web? What other decent overall sports websites are there for daily sports updates? Any recommendations?

[Passacaglia]

I just come here

[gstelmack]

I'm going to try to give up my dependence on ESPN for sports news. I am already watching NFL Network and MLB Network for those sports.

What should I do about the web? What other decent overall sports websites are there for daily sports updates? Any recommendations?

CNNSI, or yahoosports. I stopped following ESPN a long time ago.

[Logan]

Twitter. Do some searches online and you can find the accounts of all your teams' beat writers. Then you have the major outlet guys who will also break news. For the most part, even the ESPN guys keep it pretty legit (the actual reporter types, not the Bayless/SAS crowd).

The only sports coverage I watch on an actual TV are live events. I'll catch highlights online if something meaningful happens or if there's something particular I want to see. There's just no need to be held hostage on your couch for 30 or 60 minutes while some producer decides what you should or shouldn't see.

[sterlingice]

It looks like old NFL Primetime has been nerfed even more.

First it was moved to 11pm a few years ago when NBC got the rights.

Then it was chopped up as part of the 11pm Sportscenter and you only got about half the games and not all of the NFL coverage was part of "The Blitz".

Now, there's not even Chris Berman. I like Tom Jackson but those two played off each other so well and were part of what made the show work

SI

[britrock88]

TSN.ca/NHL

[Jas_lov]

It looks like old NFL Primetime has been nerfed even more.

First it was moved to 11pm a few years ago when NBC got the rights.

Then it was chopped up as part of the 11pm Sportscenter and you only got about half the games and not all of the NFL coverage was part of "The Blitz".

Now, there's not even Chris Berman. I like Tom Jackson but those two played off each other so well and were part of what made the show work

SI

I know Berman called the 2nd MNF game this week so maybe he'll be back next week. I enjoy those two doing highlights so I hope that's the case.

[Logan]

Watch Mike Francesa Doze Off During An Interview (http://deadspin.com/5942619)

[RedKingGold]

I applaud ESPN for its John Clayton and ponytail "This is Sportscenter" commercial. Pretty neat to see ESPN acknowledge that Internet inside joke.

If you haven't seen it, YouTube it now and also look for the outtakes. It doesn't hurt that the "This is Sportscenter" spots are one of the most original and funniest things ESPN has done.

[Matthean]

ESPN Personality Gets Mad at 'Onion' Article He Thought Was Real (http://mashable.com/2012/09/17/stephen-a-smith-onion-article/)

[Logan]

Rovell article:

Expensive dinner for Bears' rookies - Sports Business News, Analysis - Dollars Blog - ESPN Playbook - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/dollars/post/_/id/1975/expensive-dinner-for-bears-rookies)

Then of course we hear:

darren rovell ‏@darrenrovell

Bears’ @iidonije tweets that the steak dinner bill was not real. Was meant to scare the rookies.

[Grover]

Rovell article:

Expensive dinner for Bears' rookies - Sports Business News, Analysis - Dollars Blog - ESPN Playbook - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/dollars/post/_/id/1975/expensive-dinner-for-bears-rookies)

Then of course we hear:

I'm pretty sure that Rovell also mis-tweeted that someone had died. I saw a mention of it the other day, but never saw the actual tweet.

EDIT: He had incorrectly assumed that Alex Karras had died.

http://deadspin.com/5950101/darren-rovell-erroneously-reports-alex-karrass-death-plays-it-cool

[JonInMiddleGA]

I don't think I ever realized just how bad Matt Millen sucks as an analyst until tonight, but I think I've figured out why it took me so long.

I thought he was Mike Golic (who I had been wondering when they moved him into college football coverage from Mike & Mike In the Morning)

[korme]

I would also like to pile on and say Darren Rovell does suck

And good for Russillo

[stevew]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Pl5sHu_cvDA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[stevew]

When SAS is "uncomfortable with where we just went" I'm just speechless.

[korme]

That was bad.

[bulletsponge]

why the fuck does he even care about his private life?

[Honolulu_Blue]

That's just so very... Rob Parker.

The guy used to write for the Detroit News for many years until he was finally fired a few years ago for making a very ill advised comment during a Rod Marinelli press conference. I think he asked Rod Marinelli whether he wished his dauhter had married a better defensive coordinator, because the defensive coordinator was his son-in-law.

He's the typical sports columnist who makes a living just trying to be a contrarian (e.g., the local sports teams are all horrible/finds the negative in everything) or say outrageous stuff.

[azjoe_02]

When SAS is "uncomfortable with where we just went" I'm just speechless.

yes

[Radii]

Why the hell is this a "top story" on espn.com???

Les Miles of LSU Tigers is most popular college football coach on Twitter -- report - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8759964/les-miles-lsu-tigers-most-popular-college-football-coach-twitter-report)

For fuck's sake, the headline is "Les Miles Popular on Twitter" ...

[Logan]

National Radio Announcers Just Couldn't Believe The Ravens Let The Clock Expire At The End Of The First OT Period (http://deadspin.com/5975999)

[Lathum]

meh, I'm not gonna kill someone for not knowing what is a very obscure rule.

That being said, during a break when it was looking like it may end tied they should have asked what happens.

[digamma]

National Radio Announcers Just Couldn't Believe The Ravens Let The Clock Expire At The End Of The First OT Period (http://deadspin.com/5975999)

My wife and I were listening to this. It was amazing.

To Lathum's point, I didn't think this was that obscure of a rule--you have to play until there is a winner in OT, but you are exactly right that you need to make sure you are up on the basics of the OT rules before they have an effect on the broadcast.

[Lathum]

I was at a work dinner and we were all talking abou tthe rules. Obviously we all knew there couldnt be a tie, but were all stumped as to if the rekick, cointoss, etc... or just treat it like the second quarter.

[Chief Rum]

Was Donovan McNabb consulting on the broadcast?

[spleen1015]

The ref explained the rules at the OT coin toss.

[Draft Dodger]

I was at a work dinner and we were all talking abou tthe rules. Obviously we all knew there couldnt be a tie, but were all stumped as to if the rekick, cointoss, etc... or just treat it like the second quarter.

yeah, I had no idea either. The CBS guys eventually explained it, but it was late in the quarter

[Draft Dodger]

The ref explained the rules at the OT coin toss.

albeit, terribly

[Logan]

I think there's a difference in being unsure of the rules as you watch, and being unsure of the rules as you commentate to the point where you are flabbergasted and seriously confused how a team could let the clock run out instead of taking a chance at winning the game.

[spleen1015]

albeit, terribly

It was a tad confusing at first but he clarified and eventually said we're playing OT like it is a game. We'll play 2 quarters, have a halftime then play 2 more quarters. Something to that effect.

[Logan]

Just read this article and was reminded of the discussion on here of why Rovell is hated so much.

Darren Rovell does not understand that he is hated (http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/41529820/)

[Logan]

I really enjoyed this article:

Mike Shanahan, the Super Bowl and PTI (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2013/08/28/mike-shanahan-the-super-bowl-and-pti/)

This is the story of how a poorly worded tweet eventually led to a completely bogus segment on PTI. And it’s perhaps a cautionary tale for those of us who make our living in the world of 140-character quotes and pithy SEO headlines.

And a somewhat similar one that Deadspin ran a week ago:

How ESPN Pulled A Bullshit Colin Kaepernick Story Out Of Thin Air (http://deadspin.com/how-espn-manufactures-a-story-colin-kaepernick-edition-1185400028)

[sterlingice]

It must be fun to be the one running the echo chamber.

SI

[digamma]

@darrenrovell Johnny Manziel is great for college football. The fan in me is happy we'll see on the field. The reporter in me is very proud of our work.

[Logan]

I miss this thread. Time to bring it back.

These Emails Confirm That ESPN's Darren Rovell Is A Sensitive Penis (http://deadspin.com/these-emails-confirm-that-espns-darren-rovell-is-a-sens-1572043642)

[Dr. Sak]

I follow quite a few college football writers and I have to admit, it must suck to say anything and then have hordes of people just take shots at you. It's quite amusing when I see them shoot back at the fans. But what I find annoying is when they think their thought process is the only correct one because they are a professional writer and "fans" dont understand the game like they do.

I've had the fortune/unfourtune to meet more of these writers at games & scrimmages. Needless to say their arrogance does not go unnoticed. That includes sideline reporters like Alex Flanagan who is even more beautiful in person but you can tell she's one of those I'm hot and I know I am hot women.

[miami_fan]

Sirius Paying ESPN “Licensing Fee” for Stephen A. Smith’s Show on Mad Dog Radio | The Big Lead (http://thebiglead.com/2014/08/07/sirius-paying-espn-licensing-fee-for-stephen-a-smiths-show-on-mad-dog-radio/)

ESPN finally announced news that’s a couple weeks old – Stephen A. Smith is leaving the network’s New York radio station (98.7) for Sirius radio.

[albionmoonlight]

Mrs. A was at a bookstore the other day and saw an NFL preview magazine that had the Saints as the cover story. She texted and asked if I wanted it, and I said no.

In 2014, when (1) multiple local reporters attend every open practice and send real-time tweets about what is happening, (2) message boards like this one (as well as team-specific boards) exist to provide opinions about sports, and (3) any story with a hint of newsworthyness will be overplayed on TV for 24 hours and then forgotten, the idea of getting sports news from a magazine seems very strange.

I am not saying that there is not a place for the kind of in-depth reporting and long-form pieces that work well in a magazine (that Jared Lorenzen piece from a couple of weeks ago is a great example). That kind of stuff is great, and the TV/Twitter culture cannot come close to creating it.

But in terms of asking the more basic question of "what is happening with my favorite team right now?," I do not see how anything can compete with what the internet is giving us, for better or worse.

[Logan]

Basically the only time I'll buy a magazine like that is if I'm about to get on a plane and don't have anything to read. Even then, I can load up my phone with items to read before going into airplane mode. So it's basically out of laziness or nostalgia, much more so then "getting news". Sometimes it's just nice to flip through a magazine, as anyone who has read that month's Skymall for the 4th time can attest.

[Logan]

I had the pleasure of being on Twitter as this was playing out yesterday. Such a dumb prick.

Darren Rovell Can't Tell A Two From A Five (http://deadspin.com/darren-rovell-cant-tell-a-two-from-a-five-1636540206)

[DaddyTorgo]

I had the pleasure of being on Twitter as this was playing out yesterday. Such a dumb prick.

Darren Rovell Can't Tell A Two From A Five (http://deadspin.com/darren-rovell-cant-tell-a-two-from-a-five-1636540206)

Haha. You know what though - lost in all the Rovell bashing is KD's classy response where he doesn't go all crazy or say something stupid. Kudos to him.

[Logan]

Big news out of Bristol, as ESPN announces they won't be renewing Bill Simmons' contract. He'll be a FA after September.

[Grover]

Big news out of Bristol, as ESPN announces they won't be renewing Bill Simmons' contract. He'll be a FA after September.

Hmm. What does this do to Grantland? Does he own the property, or does ESPN?

[Fidatelo]

Hmm. What does this do to Grantland? Does he own the property, or does ESPN?

I think ESPN does, Skipper commented that Grantland long ago moved from being a Bill Simmons site to something that can stand on his own. More interesting will be what happens to the contributors, do they follow the pied piper or do they stay on at Grantland.

[Logan]

Hmm. What does this do to Grantland? Does he own the property, or does ESPN?

ESPN does. I'm sure some people will follow him to wherever he lands once their own contracts are up, especially if he gets the backing to start up his own similar site. But he's getting a little older and I wonder if he'll have any interest in starting from scratch again when he can get paid to put in much less work.

[Arles]

Yeah, this is an interesting development. Makes me think of a tactic a lot of bigger companies use with extremely talented (yet somewhat uncontrollable) people. They use them to build something - then once it is built decide they don't want to pay them. It will be an interesting gamble as Grantland's success is largely on Bill's shoulders. I listen to a lot of podcasts and read some articles there, but if Bill leaves - my consumption will greatly decrease.

What's interesting is that both Bill (with his new podcast Bill Don't Lie) and Andy Greenwald/Chris Ryan (with their new podcast Watch the Thrones) have already broken free of the main Grantland podcast feeds to start independent ones. Makes me think that atleast a portion of Grantland (Andy, Chris, Sal, maybe Zach Lowe and maybe Bill Barnwell) will end up leaving and going with Bill.

[Grover]

The whole Simmons leaving ESPN has me digging through the archives and reading all of Hunter S. Thompson's Page 2 stuff.

[nol]

Yeah, this is an interesting development. Makes me think of a tactic a lot of bigger companies use with extremely talented (yet somewhat uncontrollable) people. They use them to build something - then once it is built decide they don't want to pay them. It will be an interesting gamble as Grantland's success is largely on Bill's shoulders. I listen to a lot of podcasts and read some articles there, but if Bill leaves - my consumption will greatly decrease.

What's interesting is that both Bill (with his new podcast Bill Don't Lie) and Andy Greenwald/Chris Ryan (with their new podcast Watch the Thrones) have already broken free of the main Grantland podcast feeds to start independent ones. Makes me think that atleast a portion of Grantland (Andy, Chris, Sal, maybe Zach Lowe and maybe Bill Barnwell) will end up leaving and going with Bill.

Yeah, it would honestly not take much more than one or two of those guys leaving for the site to be unviable.

[Fidatelo]

Grantland is, for me, the following people:

Simmons
Lowe
McIndoe
Barnwell
Rembert

If you take those guys away there is almost nothing left for me on that site. Conversly, you move them all to some other site, I'm there instantly.

[Arles]

I enjoy the hollywood perspective guys too (Chris and Andy). Sub them in for Rembert and I'm in the same situation.

[korme]

So this is a public bitch-slapping from Skipper. I wonder if the 2.2 B cog known as the NFL pressured them to do this after Simmons' take on The DPS yesterday.

With his contract expiring Sep. 30, we will be getting 5 months of radio silence. So Bill loses commentary on the NBA, for fucking shame.

[Grover]

So this is a public bitch-slapping from Skipper. I wonder if the 2.2 B cog known as the NFL pressured them to do this after Simmons' take on The DPS yesterday.

With his contract expiring Sep. 30, we will be getting 5 months of radio silence. So Bill loses commentary on the NBA, for fucking shame.

Simmons wasn't given permission to appear on DPS either.

[Fidatelo]

So at the end of his podcast on Monday he talked about how Bill Don't Lie was being pushed to Monday and then alluded that the reason would become clear around mid-week. Any chance he saw this coming and that is somehow related, or is there something else that explains that comment that I'm just not aware of (I haven't listened to Bill Don't Lie so maybe it was explained there)?

[stevew]

I wanna think he's inspired by Carolla to go do his own thing. I just wouldn't pay for podcast content and website articles though. And sometimes Simmons has a really low work rate. I'm sure he'll be fine.

[albionmoonlight]

Surprising. I thought that a lot of the Simmons and ESPN not liking each other was all a show. They are a huge name that opens whatever door (or gets him whatever tickets, etc.) he wants opened. He seems to really really like being important and hanging with celebrities, and ESPN helps him be that person.

ESPN got the clicks of the people who enjoyed reading Simmons go off against ESPN, the NFL, etc. Basically, by keeping one of their critics in-house, they could control (and profit from) anti-ESPN-corporate rhetoric.

I don't think that it was as contrived as meetings where they planned out what he would say. But I did think that there was an unspoken understanding where his "I'm a bad boy outsider" gimmick worked well for everyone.

He will pretty much be able to get a blank check from FS1 or another site wanting to gain instant credibility. And if he takes Barnwell, Lowe, etc with him (or an implicit understanding that they will come when their ESPN contracts are up)? That's a pretty good package deal.

[miami_fan]

Surprising. I thought that a lot of the Simmons and ESPN not liking each other was all a show. They are a huge name that opens whatever door (or gets him whatever tickets, etc.) he wants opened. He seems to really really like being important and hanging with celebrities, and ESPN helps him be that person.

ESPN got the clicks of the people who enjoyed reading Simmons go off against ESPN, the NFL, etc. Basically, by keeping one of their critics in-house, they could control (and profit from) anti-ESPN-corporate rhetoric.

I don't think that it was as contrived as meetings where they planned out what he would say. But I did think that there was an unspoken understanding where his "I'm a bad boy outsider" gimmick worked well for everyone.

He will pretty much be able to get a blank check from FS1 or another site wanting to gain instant credibility. And if he takes Barnwell, Lowe, etc with him (or an implicit understanding that they will come when their ESPN contracts are up)? That's a pretty good package deal.

I think the thing that is tricky is the criticism of the NFL specifically Roger Goodell. It will be interesting to see how a Fox or a NBC deals with one of their national stars saying the NFL commissioner "lacks testicular fortitude".

The status of other Grantland writers, where they go and whose jobs they might be taking at other sites are far more interesting to me than Simmons. For example, a Yahoo NBA reporting team of Adrian Wojnarowski and Zach Lowe would be interesting.

[cuervo72]

Grantland is, for me, the following people:

Simmons
Lowe
McIndoe
Barnwell
Rembert

If you take those guys away there is almost nothing left for me on that site. Conversly, you move them all to some other site, I'm there instantly.

C'mon, McIndoe. You can make SportsDigs happen.

[ColtCrazy]

Not really bothered by Simmons leaving. I thought the Grantland version of Simmons wasn't nearly as good as previous version. Seemed to revel a little too much in his homerism/rebellious writer.

It probably does mark the end of Grantland, though Barnwell became my NFL must read. Love his insight. Titus is pretty good for my college basketball fix.

[stevew]

The Grantland NFL podcast is probably the best NFL program out there.

[ColtCrazy]

http://www.rollingstone.com/sports/features/bill-simmons-a-begrudging-appreciation-20150508

Sums up my thoughts on him very well. Great at first. Caricature of himself later. But he opened the door for guys like Barnwell, etc. that can write in a guy at a bar style, but, unlike Simmons, not have to rely on humor instead of really good analysis.

[digamma]

Good piece. It does get at what might be Grantland's downfall. From everything I've read, including this article, Grantland, while a critical success, lags on site traffic and revenue. Hard to see ESPN continuing to support that long term.

I mean, I loved The National back in the day, but, oh well.

[Fidatelo]

This Vanity Fair article reads like Simmons getting his side out through an intermediary. Some interesting info.

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/05/inside-shocking-abrupt-divorce-bill-simmons-and-espn

[albionmoonlight]

I see some parallels between Simmons and Andrew Sullivan. Both guys were pioneer bloggers in their fields. And both guys got an audience committed to them individually. And both guys chaffed at restrictions and seem tough to work with.

Sullivan bounced from place to place until he went solo with a subscription model. Then he burned out and retired. I don't see Simmons burning out the same way. I do see him possibly going on a peripetic adventure as he bounces from opportunity to opportunity.

And I think that ESPN is nuts if it thinks that, say, the BS Report has a loyal audience outside of Simmons.

[claphamsa]

This Vanity Fair article reads like Simmons getting his side out through an intermediary. Some interesting info.

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/05/inside-shocking-abrupt-divorce-bill-simmons-and-espn

WOW! he made 5M a year...thats insane.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And I think that ESPN is nuts if it thinks that, say, the BS Report has a loyal audience outside of Simmons.

I suspect it depends on the content. Honestly, I rarely ever look at the bylines on Grantland until after reading the content. If the content is good, there's something there ... whether or not that's something that justifies the separate identity, eh, that's probably a different call.

[nol]

Good piece. It does get at what might be Grantland's downfall. From everything I've read, including this article, Grantland, while a critical success, lags on site traffic and revenue. Hard to see ESPN continuing to support that long term.

I mean, I loved The National back in the day, but, oh well.

Grantland was always supposed to be 'prestige programming' for ESPN, but it's definitely eye-opening/sad to see the share of their traffic that's from Simmons as opposed to everyone else. It will be even more of a money pit now, but it'll be interesting to see how far ESPN goes in order to passive-aggressively 'win the breakup.'

[Subby]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">list of grantland pieces about deadspin, since 2011:</p>&mdash; Rembert Browne (@rembert) <a href="https://twitter.com/rembert/status/598192035049435136">May 12, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Arles]

This Vanity Fair article reads like Simmons getting his side out through an intermediary. Some interesting info.

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/05/inside-shocking-abrupt-divorce-bill-simmons-and-espn
Jim Miller is a buddy of Bill's. He's been on his podcast numerous times and Bill helped pimp out his SNL stuff. Still, it was a pretty good read and helped shed some light on the breakup (even if it was mostly from a pro-Simmons perspective).

Then again, if you want the anti-Simmons perspective, just head over to deadspin. It's pretty clear that site has some massive Simmons/Grantland envy and is doing everything it can to try and tarnish their name. It makes since, given Grantland is probably one of the bigger competitors to Deadspin and they get a double benefit of tearing down Simmons while getting more eyes on their site pages.

[digamma]

Then again, if you want the anti-Simmons perspective, just head over to deadspin. It's pretty clear that site has some massive Simmons/Grantland envy and is doing everything it can to try and tarnish their name. It makes since, given Grantland is probably one of the bigger competitors to Deadspin and they get a double benefit of tearing down Simmons while getting more eyes on their site pages.

I'm not sure this is true.

Deadspin appears to be playing to what its audience wants to read. It's great popcorn drama, and the audience eats it up. Take a look at what trends on their network.

They are actually fairly complimentary to Grantland most of their articles. (They admittedly don't like Simmons as a writer, but praise him as an editor and as a podcaster.)

More importantly, though, they link to their articles in their own content. If you were trying to tear down your opponent, why would you give them clicks by linking to their articles? The name of the game for blog sites is unique visits and click throughs.

[Arles]

I'm not sure this is true.

Deadspin appears to be playing to what its audience wants to read. It's great popcorn drama, and the audience eats it up. Take a look at what trends on their network.
There's a definite "shock jock" appeal they are going for, but there seems like a sense of anger when Simmons and/or certain parts of Grantland come up. Here are just a few from the past few days:
Report: Bill Simmons Is Leaving ESPN (http://deadspin.com/report-bill-simmons-is-leaving-espn-1703082844)
How To Employ Bill Simmons (http://deadspin.com/how-to-employ-bill-simmons-1703224603)
Bill Simmons Is A Shitty Writer (http://deadspin.com/bill-simmons-is-a-shitty-writer-1703163076)
Why ESPN Fired Bill Simmons (http://deadspin.com/why-espn-fired-bill-simmons-1703103609)
Photoshop Contest: Where Is Bill Simmons? (http://deadspin.com/photoshop-contest-where-is-bill-simmons-1703708366)

Go back further and you see them attacking Whitlock's "black grantland" site, they list the 12 worst grantland stories from year X (you can search the year), etc. It's clear they have some kind of vendetta.

They are actually fairly complimentary to Grantland most of their articles. (They admittedly don't like Simmons as a writer, but praise him as an editor and as a podcaster.)
It's a lot of backhanded compliments (ie, Grantland sucks, but this one guy wrote a nice article) - or ones directed at specific writer who haven't been there long. I think they like some of the content there, but have a vested interest in tearing down Simmons.

More importantly, though, they link to their articles in their own content. If you were trying to tear down your opponent, why would you give them clicks by linking to their articles? The name of the game for blog sites is unique visits and click throughs.
Because it actually helps deadspin's SEO. Linking to numerous legit articles in your site is a way to improve your search rating. Not to mention, many blogs think that having actual links to real articles improves their own credibility.

[digamma]

Just look at the number of comments on the articles you linked. I think they like Grantland just where it is. Drama filled, an easy content target and and behind it in the traffic rankings.

[Arles]

Back in October, Grantland had 4 mil unique visitors and ranked 2200 nationally. Back then, Deadspin had 17.9 million visitors and ranked 820. In April, Grantland had 13 million unique visitors and ranked 1420 nationally - while Deadspin had 15 mil and ranked 950. Grantland was on a course to pass Deadspin in the next 24 months. Simmons leaving, though, could throw a wrench into it.

I do think Deadspin is a pure shock and grab hits site, though, so this could just be them jumping onto some easy traffic by talking smack about Simmons and Grantland.

[nol]

I don't think anything is particularly backhanded. What the articles are saying boils down to:

1. Bill Simmons' target audience is people who had that one poster of naked ladies with Pink Floyd album covers painted on their backsides. That's just a criticism.

2. On the heels of that success with said demographic, ESPN gave him a lot of money and creative freedom. That's a pretty neutral statement.

3. Bill Simmons has done a good job of hiring competent people, paying them well, and letting them do their thing. That's maybe backhanded towards Simmons himself (saying that's not what one would have expected given points 1 and 2) but not the site.

[cuervo72]

Hey, we want to read analysis and speculation about this and things like this. You think we're going to get that at ESPN?

[Logan]

Bill Simmons Lands Mega Deal at HBO - Hollywood Reporter (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/bill-simmons-lands-mega-deal-808227)

[molson]

Perfect spot for him. I worried he was going to try to do some over-the-top subscription model. I look forward to him doing this thing without the content restrictions of ESPN, and hope this means a lot of great HBO sports documentaries.

[Logan]

Agree. Really looking forward to having his podcasts back. I doubt I'll end up watching his weekly show, but like his podcasts, the guests and his interactions with them could make it good.

[albionmoonlight]

Makes sense for both sides.

[korme]

Will he still be able to have someone like Cousin Sal on?

[molson]

Probably not as long as Sal works for ABC

[albionmoonlight]

Good point, molson. That's a shame. Their guess the lines podcast was one of my favorites.

[Logan]

I wouldn't be so sure. I'm assuming Bill Maher has guests on from other networks. If both companies can work things out for good cross-promotion, they will. Now if this show was airing at 11:30pm on a weekday against Kimmel (it never would), I can see ABC saying no.

I doubt there would be much of a roadblock put up to get a guy on a podcast with a comparatively smaller audience than the show he works for.

[ISiddiqui]

A lot of talk shows tend to have people on from other networks. And they may not even mention what network (Letterman for a while kept saying "from another network" whenever folks from NBC shows would come on).

[molson]

I know ESPN didn't let its people on the Dan Patrick Show, at least for a while. I'd be pretty surprised to see Simmons and current ESPN on-air people together on HBO.

[RainMaker]

The one thing Sal has going for him is that Jimmy is a big shot with ABC and they probably won't fuck with him too much.

[Logan]

I know ESPN didn't let its people on the Dan Patrick Show, at least for a while. I'd be pretty surprised to see Simmons and current ESPN on-air people together on HBO.

And ESPN wouldn't let people on WFAN radio after the two sides were bickering at each other through the shows. Patrick was a pretty messy divorce I believe. For all that seems to have happened between Simmons and top management, he still cares about a lot of people there so I don't think we're going to see the "scorched Earth" takedown of ESPN that others seem to think is coming. So absent that, I think it'll all work out. But of course if he does, I would expect a similar ban to be put in place.

[APC]

Smart move by Simmons. He's probably making as much as he would at ESPN for a fraction of the work.

What's the big deal about video podcasts? Do we need video of two people sitting across from each other and talking? No. Audio podcasts are just fine. Spend money on booking good guests and improving sound quality instead of a set and video equipment.

[Grover]

Smart move by Simmons. He's probably making as much as he would at ESPN for a fraction of the work.

What's the big deal about video podcasts? Do we need video of two people sitting across from each other and talking? No. Audio podcasts are just fine. Spend money on booking good guests and improving sound quality instead of a set and video equipment.

Or go the Ricky Gervais Show route and animate the entire thing.

[cartman]

Or go the Ricky Gervais Show route and animate the entire thing.

Only if they get those Taiwanese news animators.

[Logan]

Smart move by Simmons. He's probably making as much as he would at ESPN for a fraction of the work.

What's the big deal about video podcasts? Do we need video of two people sitting across from each other and talking? No. Audio podcasts are just fine. Spend money on booking good guests and improving sound quality instead of a set and video equipment.

I'm not sure if the videos are really thought of a "big deal" in reality; more of an ancillary benefit of recording the content in the first place. But these guys conceivably want to spend money on a nice set in order to attract those good guests. Podcasting has grown well beyond "guys with two mics in a basement/garage" (save for Maron). Plus there's also a lot of people who won't spend 45 minutes to an hour listening to a podcast, and pushing out edited Youtube clips of these conversations or embedding them into other content definitely has a lot of value.

Or go the Ricky Gervais Show route and animate the entire thing.

Sports Guy tried that already.

eta: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6259FDDCA33D748F

[Grover]

Only if they get those Taiwanese news animators.

I'm down for that.

[Suicane75]

Norm MacDonald does a video podcast, and it's an entirely different beast than if was just audio.

[APC]

Podcasting has grown well beyond "guys with two mics in a basement/garage" (save for Maron). Plus there's also a lot of people who won't spend 45 minutes to an hour listening to a podcast, and pushing out edited Youtube clips of these conversations or embedding them into other content definitely has a lot of value.



What you're describing is a talk show, not a podcast. Podcasts are supposed to be longer and more in-depth, not necessarily chopped up into context-less short video clips for the masses.

[stevew]

I listen to all the Simmons podcasts but I'd really miss the Sal ones. It also sux we already missed Chad Ford and the draft as well as we won't get Matthew Berry doing preseason FF.

At least House and Jacko will presumably be around.

[Zinto]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">TV/<a href="https://twitter.com/HBO">@hbo</a> decision re <a href="https://twitter.com/BillSimmons">@BillSimmons</a> world came 1st but there will be another announcement in future as to where he will call home for digital.</p>&mdash; James Andrew Miller (@JimMiller) <a href="https://twitter.com/JimMiller/status/623919315142619136">July 22, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Sounds like there is more information about Simmons to come.

[Neon_Chaos]

What you're describing is a talk show, not a podcast. Podcasts are supposed to be longer and more in-depth, not necessarily chopped up into context-less short video clips for the masses.

I actually prefer the grantland video podcasts over their audio versions. They are able to put things into context by using graphics, and by seeing the people themselves.

Bill and Jalen.
Jalen and Jacoby's Pop The Trunk
Hollywood Prospectus.

Podcasting has definitely grown to be more than being consumed as just audio.

[Logan]

What you're describing is a talk show, not a podcast. Podcasts are supposed to be longer and more in-depth, not necessarily chopped up into context-less short video clips for the masses.

They'll be the same podcasts, presumably. HBO put "video podcasts" in the press release because, well, they are a premium video service and Simmons has (had) I believe the most popular sports podcast. You were talking about not needing to spend money on a set when the point is that the added cost is negligible.

[miami_fan]

Colin wanted to get to FOX sports a bit early.

Colin Cowherd no longer on ESPN air after comments about Dominican Republic players (http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/13314040/colin-cowherd-no-longer-espn-air-comments-dominican-republic-players)

[rowech]

Colin wanted to get to FOX sports a bit early.

Colin Cowherd no longer on ESPN air after comments about Dominican Republic players (http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/13314040/colin-cowherd-no-longer-espn-air-comments-dominican-republic-players)

If FOX will still take him.

[miami_fan]

If FOX will still take him.

I seriously doubt FOX kills this deal.

[JPhillips]

I generally understand why radio folks that I don't personally like are successful, but I have never understood how Cowherd has a career. He must have a huge audience of people that tolerate him because they can't find anything better.

[tarcone]

Beaumonty Jones is my new fave. I started calling my youngest daughter Beaumonty because we were coming home from basketball practice while he is on. She wasn't impressed.

[stkelly52]

I generally understand why radio folks that I don't personally like are successful, but I have never understood how Cowherd has a career. He must have a huge audience of people that tolerate him because they can't find anything better.

Cowherd tends to be upfront and honest. He is basically a sports shock jock, and he generally does not care if some people get upset because of it. He has definitive opinions that might go against commonly held beliefs but he can clearly explain why he believes what he does. He is also not afraid to admit when he was wrong about something. These are traits that many people love for radio.

[rowech]

I seriously doubt FOX kills this deal.

It would rather kill its deal with Cowherd than mess up the one they have with MLB.

[miami_fan]

It would rather kill its deal with Cowherd than mess up the one they have with MLB.

I think you are overestimating the value that MLB places on the feelings of those that might be offended. I could be 100% wrong on this one but I feel in circumstances like this, MLB believes this too shall pass.

[korme]

Tarcone, it's Bomani.

[NobodyHere]

ESPN could be sold directly to fans, Disney CEO says (http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/espn-could-be-sold-directly-to-fans-disney-ceo-says/ar-AAdz7BP)

[stevew]

@ $36/month? Hell no.

[sooner333]

That price point makes little sense considering you can get all of the ESPNs and more for $25 a month on Sling TV.

[bronconick]

They'll probably pull themselves out of the Sling deal first, which they can do if they lose a certain # of subscribers.

[CU Tiger]

I generally understand why radio folks that I don't personally like are successful, but I have never understood how Cowherd has a career. He must have a huge audience of people that tolerate him because they can't find anything better.

+1

I dont believe CC even believes half the shit he says. I think he takes the worst of Stern, and mixes it with the worst of Rome (I happen to really like both) and produces the worst show on radio. I actually bought Sirius JUST because of Cowherd. I like to listen to sports in the car on OTA I have no other options during his time slot, so I bought Sirius exclusively to have an option.

[CU Tiger]

Dola - I'd gladly pay $10/month or so for ESPN but not much more.

[molson]

That price point makes little sense considering you can get all of the ESPNs and more for $25 a month on Sling TV.

I might be in the minority, but any TV service without DVR is a no-go for me. I don't want to go back to a world of sports programming altering my life plans. I wouldn't pay $36/month for ESPN all year, but if it was the entire ESPN family with ESPN3 and everything else, I might go close to that for college football and basketball seasons. Then just about the only thing I'd miss about cable/satellite is UFC on Fox Sports 1.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Pity the shark didn't bite Grantland in the ass as it jumped over.

When you reach the point of posting articles about Drake & some dude that has presumably even less talent since I've literally never heard his fucking name before, the shark has been vaulted.

Good idea for a site, the direction has ultimately failed to the point where I simply not only can't abide seeing their crap anymore but to where I actively hope whomever thought that worthless bullshit warranted space dies in a fucking fire.

[Logan]

Pity the shark didn't bite Grantland in the ass as it jumped over.

When you reach the point of posting articles about Drake & some dude that has presumably even less talent since I've literally never heard his fucking name before, the shark has been vaulted.

Good idea for a site, the direction has ultimately failed to the point where I simply not only can't abide seeing their crap anymore but to where I actively hope whomever thought that worthless bullshit warranted space dies in a fucking fire.

I'm gonna call that last sentence a bit of an overreaction.

FWIW it was the #1 trending item on Twitter in the US today.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm gonna call that last sentence a bit of an overreaction.

I'll grant that it would have stood better with a clarification, along the lines of "whomever thought it belonged on what was supposed to be a sports site ..."

FWIW it was the #1 trending item on Twitter in the US today.

Speaks volumes about the incredibly limited value of Twitter for anyone with a f'n brain. It's not entirely useless but a large portion of its user base apparently is.

[Logan]

I'll grant that it would have stood better with a clarification, along the lines of "whomever thought it belonged on what was supposed to be a sports site ..."

It's supposed to be a "Sports and Pop Culture site"...says it right in the header.

[JonInMiddleGA]

It's supposed to be a "Sports and Pop Culture site"...says it right in the header.

Well that's a mix that ain't worth a tinker's dam.

It sucks on radio when I've heard it tried, sucks even harder to have some pretty good sports content buried with utter garbage articles.

[ISiddiqui]

Seems like a strange thing to be upset by. Grantland has ALWAYS done pop culture articles.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Seems like a strange thing to be upset by. Grantland has ALWAYS done pop culture articles.

Yeah. I go to the site more often for the pop culture articles than the sports. Sportswise, I always read Maple Leafs' and Bill Barnwell's stuff, but other than that...

[nol]

Seems like a strange thing to be upset by. Grantland has ALWAYS done pop culture articles.

Especially when there's SO much going on in the sporting world this time of year that should be covered instead. Baseball playoffs are only two months away, football teams might start practicing sometime soon, basketball teams are only a couple months away from starting practice, people are probably golfing in golf events. Where is the coverage?!

[Kodos]

ESPN could be sold directly to fans, Disney CEO says (http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/espn-could-be-sold-directly-to-fans-disney-ceo-says/ar-AAdz7BP)

@ $36/month? Hell no.

That price point makes little sense considering you can get all of the ESPNs and more for $25 a month on Sling TV.

Honestly, I could let ESPN go, as long as I can have the BTN.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Honestly, I could let ESPN go, as long as I can have the BTN.

Good job, Kodos! You've finally found the silver lining to being an University of Indiana football fan.

[Kodos]

It's Indiana University, sir. ;)

Also, you're still looking for that Silver lining in Detroit, I imagine.

[panerd]

@ $36/month? Hell no.

Disney stock hit by ESPN fears - Aug. 5, 2015 (http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/05/media/disney-stock-down-espn/)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Seems like a strange thing to be upset by. Grantland has ALWAYS done pop culture articles.

I've known it's been around, I've rarely seen it. Suddenly every "push" I get from them on social media is stuff that I have exactly zero interest in (and that's being generous), rarely a sports related article directed to my attention for the past several weeks.

That has almost surely colored my perception of what they're doing and in what ratio. And perception is an enormous driver for virtually all media, they may not have changed one single thing but my perception of them has gone from probably 70% positive to probably 90% negative in a matter of weeks.

[BishopMVP]

I've known it's been around, I've rarely seen it. Suddenly every "push" I get from them on social media is stuff that I have exactly zero interest in (and that's being generous), rarely a sports related article directed to my attention for the past several weeks.

That has almost surely colored my perception of what they're doing and in what ratio. And perception is an enormous driver for virtually all media, they may not have changed one single thing but my perception of them has gone from probably 70% positive to probably 90% negative in a matter of weeks.Well then stop caring what they do on social media and use this - The Triangle « (http://grantland.com/the-triangle/) - as your link to it. (Although they do some good features too.) I mean I agree it's gotten a little more pop culture than I'd like (hate on Simmons all you want, but back when he wrote he certainly put out sports-related articles that were worth reading), but they do a very good job delineating Sports/Pop Culture. Especially compared to, say, ESPN.com, which I've been back to maybe like 3 times since the redesign.

(Seriously, for anyone who doesn't have it or something similar, I can't recommend TheScore app highly enough. It legitimately just gives scores, and standings, and stats.)

[Logan]

Disney stock hit by ESPN fears - Aug. 5, 2015 (http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/05/media/disney-stock-down-espn/)

I'm not sure if there's been anything else where I would love to be able to press the fast forward button and see how things shake out 5-10 years down the road than everything related to bundling and sports.

[Maple Leafs]

Pity the shark didn't bite Grantland in the ass as it jumped over.

When you reach the point of posting articles about Drake & some dude that has presumably even less talent since I've literally never heard his fucking name before, the shark has been vaulted.

Good idea for a site, the direction has ultimately failed to the point where I simply not only can't abide seeing their crap anymore but to where I actively hope whomever thought that worthless bullshit warranted space dies in a fucking fire.
That has almost surely colored my perception of what they're doing and in what ratio. And perception is an enormous driver for virtually all media, they may not have changed one single thing but my perception of them has gone from probably 70% positive to probably 90% negative in a matter of weeks.
This is quickly becoming one of my all-time favorite FOFC posts.

[ISiddiqui]

I've known it's been around, I've rarely seen it. Suddenly every "push" I get from them on social media is stuff that I have exactly zero interest in (and that's being generous), rarely a sports related article directed to my attention for the past several weeks.

So social media has colored your perception of the site? Seriously, that's pretty lame dude.

[RainMaker]

I'm not sure if there's been anything else where I would love to be able to press the fast forward button and see how things shake out 5-10 years down the road than everything related to bundling and sports.

I'm interested too. Seems like a model that can't continue to sustain itself like this with more and more cutting the cord. I'm also interested to see how this impacts TV contracts in the future. Will they actually start clawing back in the other direction?

[JonInMiddleGA]

So social media has colored your perception of the site? Seriously, that's pretty lame dude.

Bear in mind here, it's their social media I'm referring to, not random social media or something. They choose what they hype to their FB followers, what they consider important enough to try to ensure that I'm aware of.

The number of times I've ever organically visited Grantland in its entire existence is almost certainly single-digits. That's not a site -- nor are 99.99% of sites -- that I sit around and think "oh, let's go see what's there today".

I hit my aggregator site/browser home page, FB, two newspapers, one sports site, this musty joint and on most days 1-2 music sites of my own accord. Oh and I guess Google counts there since it gets hit when I'm in search of something specific, which is multiple times a day. Virtually everything else comes from some prompt. Either a social media prompt/hype/link from a site's own doing or something that's been shared by a friend/acquaintance that catches my attention enough to look closer.

One of the older tendencies I'm aware of with mass media is that consumers perception of you is exponentially affected by what you promote. The classic example that was used to teach the importance of promotion & positioning (what is usually called "branding" now) was the radio station that got low marks from listeners as a source for traffic & weather over several years despite being #1 for news. They shot to the #1 unaided recall position within 3 months by making one & only one change to their traffic & weather coverage: 5-10 times an hour, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week they hyped themselves as having "traffic & weather together on the 5s". Their coverage didn't change one iota, the only change they made was that they emphasized the amount of coverage they did. Suddenly, the listeners considered them THE go-to source for traffic & weather in the market. THAT is the power of promotion/branding, say what's important to you & people will generally believe it's important to you.

That same phenomena has worked in reverse with me & Grantland. They may have changed absolutely nothing except what they promote within my line of sight ... and in doing so they've made a rapid shift in how I perceive them overall.

[RedKingGold]

Bear in mind here, it's their social media I'm referring to, not random social media or something. They choose what they hype to their FB followers, what they consider important enough to try to ensure that I'm aware of.

The number of times I've ever organically visited Grantland in its entire existence is almost certainly single-digits. That's not a site -- nor are 99.99% of sites -- that I sit around and think "oh, let's go see what's there today".

I hit my aggregator site/browser home page, FB, two newspapers, one sports site, this musty joint and on most days 1-2 music sites of my own accord. Oh and I guess Google counts there since it gets hit when I'm in search of something specific, which is multiple times a day. Virtually everything else comes from some prompt. Either a social media prompt/hype/link from a site's own doing or something that's been shared by a friend/acquaintance that catches my attention enough to look closer.

One of the older tendencies I'm aware of with mass media is that consumers perception of you is exponentially affected by what you promote. The classic example that was used to teach the importance of promotion & positioning (what is usually called "branding" now) was the radio station that got low marks from listeners as a source for traffic & weather over several years despite being #1 for news. They shot to the #1 unaided recall position within 3 months by making one & only one change to their traffic & weather coverage: 5-10 times an hour, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week they hyped themselves as having "traffic & weather together on the 5s". Their coverage didn't change one iota, the only change they made was that they emphasized the amount of coverage they did. Suddenly, the listeners considered them THE go-to source for traffic & weather in the market. THAT is the power of promotion/branding, say what's important to you & people will generally believe it's important to you.

That same phenomena has worked in reverse with me & Grantland. They may have changed absolutely nothing except what they promote within my line of sight ... and in doing so they've made a rapid shift in how I perceive them overall.

A reality show featuring JimInGA searching the Internet is something I would support.

[ISiddiqui]

That same phenomena has worked in reverse with me & Grantland. They may have changed absolutely nothing except what they promote within my line of sight ... and in doing so they've made a rapid shift in how I perceive them overall.

Hence why I called it lame. If the content is the same, what part of that content they choose to focus on in promotion should be irrelevant for current consumers of the product.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Hence why I called it lame. If the content is the same, what part of that content they choose to focus on in promotion should be irrelevant for current consumers of the product.

So if (tries to find example) AMC aired The Walking Dead one hour a week but hyped a 23/7 block of "All Kardashians All The Time" to fans of TWD you don't find it reasonable those TWD fan perceptions of the network would be influenced by that?

[ISiddiqui]

No, they shouldn't. That's just silly. Does it reduce the amount of time they air TWD? And let's be honest, your view is far more analagous to people deciding not to watch TWD because of Kardashian promotions, for a one hour Kardashian show.

I mean the fact that Fox runs a traitor news network doesn't have any impact on my watching television shows on their broadcast network. :p

[JonInMiddleGA]

No, they shouldn't. That's just silly. Does it reduce the amount of time they air TWD? And let's be honest, your view is far more analagous to people deciding not to watch TWD because of Kardashian promotions, for a one hour Kardashian show.

Noooooo, if there's something decent at Grantland then I'll still consider looking if it comes to mind. Same as I'd watch TWD while thinking the Kardashian channel was utter shite overall and that those responsible for making it shite should be boiled in oil. A preferable situation would be if the decent content were somewhere that wasn't cluttered by utter garbage and I'm rarely to not at least acknowledge that a better option exists. Not expecting it to occur doesn't discount the option of at least wishing it did.

How bout this ... how bout we just agree that at least ONE of us has a very fucked up way at looking at things? :)

[Radii]

No, they shouldn't. That's just silly.

They shouldn't, and its silly, but Breaking Bad fans lost their fucking minds at the overpromotion of Low Winter Sun (especially when Low Winter Sun turned out to be a not so good show) during Breaking Bad. It was... ridiculous, but the hate was pretty widespread.

[ISiddiqui]

Indeed. And like you said, it was ridiculous. And quite a lame reaction.

[JonInMiddleGA]

(especially when Low Winter Sun turned out to be a not so good show)

Well that's putting it mildly ;)

[Maple Leafs]

That same phenomena has worked in reverse with me & Grantland. They may have changed absolutely nothing except what they promote within my line of sight ... and in doing so they've made a rapid shift in how I perceive them overall.
Just for the record, there has been no change at all in what Grantland pushes on social media. Everything goes out on Twitter; most (but not all) things go out on Facebook.

Remember, you don't see everything a site pushes to Facebook. There's an algorithm, largely random, that only shows you a small slice of what's posted. It sounds like you've had some bad luck in terms of what's wound up in your feed vs. what you'd prefer to see. That's all that's going on here.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Just for the record, there has been no change at all in what Grantland pushes on social media. Everything goes out on Twitter; most (but not all) things go out on Facebook.

Remember, you don't see everything a site pushes to Facebook. There's an algorithm, largely random, that only shows you a small slice of what's posted. It sounds like you've had some bad luck in terms of what's wound up in your feed vs. what you'd prefer to see. That's all that's going on here.

Yes, I'm very familiar with the algorithm.

Just looked at the FB page itself, of posts timestamped as the past 24 hours, it's 9 sports & 7 non. Of those, my feed got hit with 0/3.

Of those tagged by FB as "yesterday", it's 6 sports/7 non (including several nons that repeated themselves in the past 24 hours). I believe I got 0/2 of those.

All told, it's virtually 50/50 for the past two days ... that's just a site killer for me when the closest thing to even barely passing interest of the 14 non-sports items is a Meryl Streep movie I give zero fucks about.

{shrug} I'm not the target, so I'll move on.

[RainMaker]

Remember, you don't see everything a site pushes to Facebook. There's an algorithm, largely random, that only shows you a small slice of what's posted. It sounds like you've had some bad luck in terms of what's wound up in your feed vs. what you'd prefer to see. That's all that's going on here.

It's not really random. They throttle it until companies pay. It's a weird strategy in my opinion.

Switch to Twitter where there currently isn't weird walls blocking you from getting news you want pushed to you.

[Maple Leafs]

It's not really random. They throttle it until companies pay. It's a weird strategy in my opinion.

Switch to Twitter where there currently isn't weird walls blocking you from getting news you want pushed to you.
Well, yes, there's the shakedown model too. (One that Twitter desperately wants to move towards.)

[Maple Leafs]

{shrug} I'm not the target, so I'll move on.
See? Isn't that easier than railing against the stupidity of a change that didn't actually happen?

[JonInMiddleGA]

See? Isn't that easier than railing against the stupidity of a change that didn't actually happen?

Umm .. what changed is my perception, based on what is put in front of me voluntarily by the g.d. site. Perception IS reality, like it or not. You can defend it {shrug}, I can hope those responsible for writing garbage articles about garbage performers like f'n Drake diaf. {shrug}

It should have been -- and could have been -- a topnotch sports site. Instead, it opted to pander to the lowest common denominator, same as TMZ.

Like I said, you can defend 'em,well within your rights ... I have the same right to say fuck 'em.

[cuervo72]

Noooooo, if there's something decent at Grantland then I'll still consider looking if it comes to mind.

Is it any wonder the Thrashers left Atlanta? :D

[JonInMiddleGA]

Is it any wonder the Thrashers left Atlanta? :D

Well, there really isn't much in sports uglier than bad hockey.
:D

[miami_fan]

Will he still be able to have someone like Cousin Sal on?

It seems so. We shall find out by next week.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Excited to bring my podcast back next week. Really missed doing them. Posting 2 pods each day on 10/1 and 10/2. Details to come soon.</p>&mdash; Bill Simmons (@BillSimmons) <a href="https://twitter.com/BillSimmons/status/646391087528062976">September 22, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="instagram-media" data-instgrm-captioned data-instgrm-version="4" style=" background:#FFF; border:0; border-radius:3px; box-shadow:0 0 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.5),0 1px 10px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.15); margin: 1px; max-width:658px; padding:0; width:99.375%; width:-webkit-calc(100% - 2px); width:calc(100% - 2px);"><div style="padding:8px;"> <div style=" background:#F8F8F8; line-height:0; margin-top:40px; padding:50.0% 0; text-align:center; width:100%;"> <div style=" background:url(data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACwAAAAsCAMAAAApWqozAAAAGFBMVEUiIiI9PT0eHh4gIB4hIBkcHBwcHBwcHBydr+JQAAAACHRSTlMABA4YHyQsM5jtaMwAAADfSURBVDjL7ZVBEgMhCAQBAf//42xcNbpAqakcM0ftUmFAAIBE81IqBJdS3lS6zs3bIpB9WED3YYXFPmHRfT8sgyrCP1x8uEUxLMzNWElFOYCV6mHWWwMzdPEKHlhLw7NWJqkHc4uIZphavDzA2JPzUDsBZziNae2S6owH8xPmX8G7zzgKEOPUoYHvGz1TBCxMkd3kwNVbU0gKHkx+iZILf77IofhrY1nYFnB/lQPb79drWOyJVa/DAvg9B/rLB4cC+Nqgdz/TvBbBnr6GBReqn/nRmDgaQEej7WhonozjF+Y2I/fZou/qAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC); display:block; height:44px; margin:0 auto -44px; position:relative; top:-22px; width:44px;"></div></div> <p style=" margin:8px 0 0 0; padding:0 4px;"> <a href="https://instagram.com/p/78ncbhCdIL/" style=" color:#000; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; line-height:17px; text-decoration:none; word-wrap:break-word;" target="_top">I beat Sal 7-6 (3 ties). Up 2-1 for the season. Excited for next week (Thurs. 10/1) when we get to Guess the Lines as a podcast again.</a></p> <p style=" color:#c9c8cd; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px; margin-bottom:0; margin-top:8px; overflow:hidden; padding:8px 0 7px; text-align:center; text-overflow:ellipsis; white-space:nowrap;">A photo posted by Bill Simmons (@sptguy33) on <time style=" font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px;" datetime="2015-09-22T20:58:22+00:00">Sep 22, 2015 at 1:58pm PDT</time></p></div></blockquote>
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[Logan]

Listening to the first Simmons podcast with Cousin Sal now. Already a small shot at Chris Berman at the 2 minute mark.

[Arles]

If you can handle the extreme Patriot fanboyism, Bill is actually fairly entertaining and I'm glad he's back on podcasts. Releasing him from the ESPN "shackles" should also make for some interesting comments this fall.

[panerd]

If you can handle the extreme Patriot fanboyism, Bill is actually fairly entertaining and I'm glad he's back on podcasts. Releasing him from the ESPN "shackles" should also make for some interesting comments this fall.

Yes the guess the lines podcast is probably my favorite sports podcast. I also enjoy most of his non-NBA stuff.

I would add his over the top defense of Tony Kornheiser/MNF to his negatives. I love him on PTI but his Monday Night Football announcing was disastrous and cringe worthy. Are most things at ESPN likely influenced by company politics? Absolutely. Was him being let go of Monday Night Football? Highly unlikely, he just sucked in that format.

[miami_fan]

Jason Whitlock lashes out over his end days at ESPN - The Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/10/06/jason-whitlock-lashes-out-over-his-end-days-at-espn/)

Missouri folks: I vaguely remember the first Explanation. Was this when he killed Joe Posnanski and other writers at the KC Star?

The Simmons-Whitlock podcast will be awesome.

[Arles]

ESPN is certainly shedding some talent lately. Cowherd, Simmons, Whitlock, Olbermann, the men in blazers (soccer guys from grantland now with NBC) and even Wesley Morris announced he is leaving Grantland for the NY Times. Having Simmons and Whitlock specifically off their ESPN shackles should make for some interesting water cooler talk over the next few months.

[Grover]

Men in Blazers is just the best.

[Arles]

Seems like more is coming out on Grantland and people leaving. According to SI, Sean Fennessey, Juliet Litman, Mallory Rubin and Chris Ryan are leaving Grantland to join up with Simmons in some capacity:

How local MLB announcers handle the national spotlight - More Sports - SI.com (http://www.si.com/more-sports/2015/10/11/deitsch-media-circus-Ron-Darling-MLB-Playoffs-local-broadcasters)

Also, it appears Dan Fierman (senior Grantland Exec) has left Grantland as well. Here's how SI is reporting it:
Dan Fierman, the founding editorial director of Grantland and one of its key behind the scenes executives, has left ESPN for a job as the Vice President and Editorial Director of MTV News. Fierman had worked for Grantland since the site was founded in 2011 and was a close confidant of Bill Simmons.
This is kind of a shame as I enjoyed Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald's podcast together - I hope they don't end up being split up. Whatever the result, it appears even more talent is leaving Grantland and I am not sure what ESPN does with it. It looks and smells like a sinking ship and I can't see too many established guys joining up at this point to replace the guys lost.

[stevew]

RIP Food News. :(

[Wolfpack]

There ought to be a 30 for 30 on the rise and fall of Grantland just to create an ironic coda.

[PilotMan]

Alright, so I've totally missed this whole Grantland thing. Can anyone give me the TL;DR version?

[stevew]

Basically Simmons claimed ESPN wasn't doing enough to promote the site, somewhere along the line they suspended him as he was entering the last year of the contract. He wasn't fined immediately, ESPN did decide to dock him pay right before xmas. Then eventually they announced he wouldn't be offered a new deal, and he left. Now other people are following course.

and the TL:DR to all of it is that Grantland is not that popular apparently.

[albionmoonlight]

I really like Mayes, Barnwell, and Lowe. It will be a shame if there isn't enough of a market for those guys for them to remain on the ESPN platform.

Seems like ESPN might be trying to wind down its "smart talk" guys.

[panerd]

Simmons...

Love his sense of humor and the guess the lines podcast but man on man is he not only a huge homer that won't get over the Brady thing but his vitriol aimed at ESPN is insane. How exactly does he think he got his exposure? Why was he able to rub elbows with all these athletes? Definitely a case of both sides thinking they are more important than they really are.

[Logan]

I get Simmons' complaints about publicizing the site but from what others have written, Grantland staff and writers were paid well above industry norms and had large travel/expense budgets. I'm guessing ESPN quickly realized that they weren't going to generate the type of traffic to warrant all the overhead and they threw in the towel pretty early.

I think combining sports and pop culture makes plenty of sense but in hindsight, maybe they should have gone with either the smart writers on their own (or combined them with Silver's site) or taken a more traditional, but fun sports writing approach still mixed with pop culture. Basically a staff of mini-Simmonses. He loved guys like Barnwell, Lowe and Keri but none of them wrote anything like him.

[albionmoonlight]

Simmons...

Love his sense of humor and the guess the lines podcast but man on man is he not only a huge homer that won't get over the Brady thing but his vitriol aimed at ESPN is insane. How exactly does he think he got his exposure? Why was he able to rub elbows with all these athletes? Definitely a case of both sides thinking they are more important than they really are.

I think that Simmons would easily be one of the most annoying and insufferable celebrities to know in real life. Love his stuff with Klosterman. Love guess the lines. But you would think after 15 or so years, he would not need to keep pointing out that he hangs out with famous people.

And the Brady stuff has gotten almost weird. Of course Simmons is a homer; that's always been part of his package. But at some point over the last few months, Brady became the greatest QB of all time, and a federal judge saying that the NFL did not follow the CBA guidelines in imposing punishment meant that all of the substantive findings regarding the deflation had been invalidated.

Personally, I am of the I-wouldn't-trust-the-NFL-to-say-if-water-is-wet camp, so I have no idea what really happened with the balls. But it has gotten to the point where I hope that tomorrow some undisputed smoking gun comes out proving that Brady deflated balls while taking steroids and paying off refs, just so that Simmons will stop talking about him.

[Arles]

In order to enjoy Simmons, you have to get past the New England homer-ism. I've been able to do that, so I enjoy most of his stuff now. I like their sports coverage and enjoy reading/listening to Mays, Barnwell, Lowe and Jonah. I've also enjoyed Greenwald and Ryan on TV/pop culture. I think their problem is they tried to do too much with established people. Bringing in guys like Wesley Morris (who I enjoy), Connelly, Klosterman (also enjoy), Alex Pappademas and a few other well established guys who ended up being 3rd/4th in the pecking order for their area seemed a little wasteful. Bring in a few stars (Greenwald, Simmons, Jonah Keri, Jalen Rose) to give credibility - but then fill the rest in with young, somewhat unestablished talent like Rembert, Barnwell, Lowe, and Mays to do the heaving lifting. They signed too many high-priced guys to come off the bench and gave everyone the site too much of a budget (while not fully marketing it).

It's a shame this site will probably end up failing over the next two years given the quality it provided at its apex. Hopefully Simmons can restart it with a better vision and somewhat leaner staff/budget.

[Logan]

I'm with you there...a couple years back I just learned to enjoy and laugh at all his annoying things. It's all entertainment.

[panerd]

I'm with you there...a couple years back I just learned to enjoy and laugh at all his annoying things. It's all entertainment.

I definitely enjoy him. The guess the lines is must listen to radio for me every week. His suspension really left a void last year and the beginning of this year. I just think the ESPN "corporate monster" angle is pretty tired already and is only going to get worse. Berman held people down, I get it. My guess is Simmons is unaware but likely played politics and screwed some people over as well.

[Arles]

Yeah, I do agree that it's hard for Simmons to play the "disenfranchised little guy" angle here. They help build him into a media mogul and decided to bail when he was getting too big/expensive. The landscape is littered with guys like that (Howard Stern, Dan Patrick, Glenn Beck, and even Cowherd is close to that situation). It happens, get over it. He will land on his feet, make a ton of money and have a new challenge now - which is often what the big names constantly say they want.

I think the truth of the situation is part of his shtick is to rip other commentators/sports people. And, for 10 years, he had to hold his tongue on all the ESPN guys. Now that restriction has been lifted and its open season on ESPN talent from his perspective. I don't see him being too hard on the powers that be at ESPN as time passes, but I can see a lot of shots coming the way of Berman, Mike and Mike, the first take guys and so forth.

[JonInMiddleGA]

There's a certain irony about this old Grantland piece I think

The Greatest Paper That Ever Died « (http://grantland.com/features/the-greatest-paper-ever-died/)

[Arles]

Wow, that is a great find and very appropriate.

[Draft Dodger]

really miss The National

[Wolfpack]

There's a certain irony about this old Grantland piece I think

The Greatest Paper That Ever Died « (http://grantland.com/features/the-greatest-paper-ever-died/)

Yep. Remembered reading that, which is what inspired my thinking about the irony of doing a 30 for 30 about Grantland as an epilogue of its own creator's relationship with the media giant that gave him all the resources to not only have his own column, but a team of columnists under his banner and a documentary series that he helped produce.

[stevew]

That national piece was my first thought as well but I was too lazy to dig it up

[bob]

ESPN to Lay Off 300 Workers, Reacting to Shifts in Sports Viewing (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/22/business/media/espn-to-lay-off-300-workers-reacting-to-shifts-in-sports-viewing.html)

ESPN plans to lay off about 300 employees as it reacts to the shifting ways that sports are consumed and as it devises new ways to market and distribute its vast array of sports programming.

“The demand for sports remains undiminished,” John Skipper, ESPN’s president, wrote in a letter to employees on Wednesday, “though the landscape we operate in has never been more complex.” He added, “No matter how many times we’ve adjusted course to lead the industry over the years, the decisions affecting our employees are never made lightly.”

[Draft Dodger]

ESPN to Lay Off 300 Workers, Reacting to Shifts in Sports Viewing (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/22/business/media/espn-to-lay-off-300-workers-reacting-to-shifts-in-sports-viewing.html)

ESPN plans to lay off about 300 employees as it reacts to the shifting ways that sports are consumed and as it devises new ways to market and distribute its vast array of sports programming.

“The demand for sports remains undiminished,” John Skipper, ESPN’s president, wrote in a letter to employees on Wednesday, “though the landscape we operate in has never been more complex.” He added, “No matter how many times we’ve adjusted course to lead the industry over the years, the decisions affecting our employees are never made lightly.”

I assume it won't be any of the blowhard idiots they have in front of the camera *cough* Stephen A Smith *cough* that make ESPN largely unwatchable

[bhlloy]

I assume it won't be any of the blowhard idiots they have in front of the camera *cough* Stephen A Smith *cough* that make ESPN largely unwatchable

If he wasn't in front of a camera bringing us the hottest takes every day, the NBA would cease to exist, didn't you hear? :banghead:

[JonInMiddleGA]

I assume it won't be any of the blowhard idiots they have in front of the camera *cough* Stephen A Smith *cough* that make ESPN largely unwatchable

USA Today columnist says hi :)
Stop complaining about Stephen A. Smith, Skip Bayless and ‘First Take’ | For The Win (http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/10/first-take-criticism-if-you-dont-like-first-take-dont-watch-first-take)


*only shared that 'cause that column actually appeared yesterday afternoon, hours apart from your comment.

[BishopMVP]

ESPN to Lay Off 300 Workers, Reacting to Shifts in Sports Viewing (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/22/business/media/espn-to-lay-off-300-workers-reacting-to-shifts-in-sports-viewing.html)

ESPN plans to lay off about 300 employees as it reacts to the shifting ways that sports are consumed and as it devises new ways to market and distribute its vast array of sports programming.

“The demand for sports remains undiminished,” John Skipper, ESPN’s president, wrote in a letter to employees on Wednesday, “though the landscape we operate in has never been more complex.” He added, “No matter how many times we’ve adjusted course to lead the industry over the years, the decisions affecting our employees are never made lightly.”They should start by firing whoever was involved in designing and approving the new website layout. 2nd worst redesign of the year after the Clippers logo.

[JonInMiddleGA]

They should start by firing whoever was involved in designing and approving the new website layout. 2nd worst redesign of the year after the Clippers logo.

Amen to that.

[Chief Rum]

2nd worst redesign of the year after the Clippers logo.

Don't get me started haha.

[Dr. Sak]

Hopefully Maple Leafs isn't one of the people who loses their job.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I'm usually pretty forgiving when it comes to website re-designs, but the new ESPN one is really awful. It just made everything harder to find and more unwieldy. It sucks.

Other than live sports - college football and MNF - or when I'm at the gym or a hotel, I never watch ESPN. Then again, I don't watch Fox Sports One either. If anything, for sports news and/or highlights, I may watch the NHL Network, but that's pretty much it.

I still miss NFL Primetime.

[bhlloy]

USA Today columnist says hi :)
Stop complaining about Stephen A. Smith, Skip Bayless and ‘First Take’ | For The Win (http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/10/first-take-criticism-if-you-dont-like-first-take-dont-watch-first-take)


*only shared that 'cause that column actually appeared yesterday afternoon, hours apart from your comment.

I don't think I've watched more than a minute of first take in my life, but when Stephen A. Smith is the second item on sportscenter talking about how he is more important for the game than Kevin Durant and how Durant should be worshipping the ground he walks on, I think I'm perfectly justified in wanting him to go die in a fire

[miami_fan]

Other than live sports - college football and MNF - or when I'm at the gym or a hotel, I never watch ESPN. Then again, I don't watch Fox Sports One either. If anything, for sports news and/or highlights, I may watch the NHL Network, but that's pretty much it.


I thought it was just me when it comes to FOX Sports One. I have tried to watch their sports highlight shows a few times and it is just horrible IMO.

[BishopMVP]

Don't get me started haha.I assume you read the story going around about how they rushed it and farmed it out to the Heat? Some of those fan ones were actually really cool too - save your million and just buy the design of the 2-3 best for 100k then touch them up a little.

Maybe it's my adblocker settings but the absolute worst part of the ESPN redesign is that top bar. If I try to read an article and hot spacebar for page down I have to scroll back up 2 lines that get blocked out by the dumb bar.

I think that might be the reason I still go to Grantland first, even as it does become more pop culture centric than I'd prefer. That layout is just so clean and easy to read whether on a computer or a phone.

[MikeVic]

So it seems like Grantland's YoutTube channel's content is all gone. I don't know what ESPN is doing, but I only really visit the Grantland site and enjoyed at least some of the YouTube vids. I rarely go on ESPN.com, especially since it seems like all my fantasy sports leagues have moved to Yahoo and other sites.

Does it make any sense to anyone here why they would delete all content on their YouTube channel??

[albionmoonlight]

Seems like, for whatever reason, they are killing Grantland. Barnwell and Mayes have not had their podcast for a week and a half now. Apparently the Youtube content is now gone. Death by 1,000 cuts.

My guess is that there are high-up people at ESPN who have never liked Grantland, and now they have the power to pull the plug. My uninformed guess is that most of the staff will be let go, and the ones who remain will be folded into 538 and other ESPN properties.

[bob]

Can't remember where I saw it, but supposedly the Grantland / YouTube stuff has something to do with YouTube Red, not the immediate death of Grantland.

[cuervo72]

ESPN's YouTube Channels Are Going Dark (UPDATE) (http://deadspin.com/espns-youtube-channels-are-going-dark-1738189787)

[JonInMiddleGA]

ESPN's YouTube Channels Are Going Dark (UPDATE) (http://deadspin.com/espns-youtube-channels-are-going-dark-1738189787)

ESPN had YouTube channels?

(No, I'm not being purely sarcastic. I had no idea such a thing existed, Grantland or otherwise)

[Arles]

Looks like they are targeting 6-figure earning producers/editors/behind the scenes people. The "on-air talent" has contracts so they can't be laid off.

http://thebiglead.com/2015/10/20/espn-layoffs-begin-tomorrow-350-employees-six-figure-earners/

[digamma]

The Richard Deitsch SI Media Podcast with Jim Miller is pretty informative on the Grantland/ESPN issues. Interesting listen.

[AgustusM]

There ought to be a 30 for 30 on the rise and fall of Grantland just to create an ironic coda.

:+1:

[AgustusM]

I love Simmons because his approach is so different from the everyday mundane content most sports media gives us.

His Boston homerism doesn't bother me either, because essentially we are all homers for our teams. I am a SF guy, but I get him being so myopic about his teams because I am about mine.

I think his podcasts are usually entertaining, but it was his columns I liked best. I never really thought his TV work was that good because his style didn't fit the give us a 30 second "take" that the medium required. He was much better in a 10,000 word column.

I also thought Grantland was outstanding and I give Simmons a lot of credit for introducing me to alot of people I follow now like Chuck Klosterman, Zach Lowe and Jalen Rose.

as for ESPN in general it went from a daily need to something I avoid for the most part. I am a huge fan of Dan Patrick, I loved the new Keith Olberman show and I thought most of what grantland did was excellent despise the running into the ground every Farve, Teebow, Manziel... story. ESPN has just turned into TMZ Sports at this point.

[stevew]

ESPN had YouTube channels?

(No, I'm not being purely sarcastic. I had no idea such a thing existed, Grantland or otherwise)

Mostly video podcasts.

[miami_fan]

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/23/espn-cuts-ties-with-youtube-over-new-ad-free-service.html

First I've heard of YouTube Red.

[nol]

Well here's a nice Friday news dump from ESPN oh by the way Grantland is dead. ESPN Statement Regarding Grantland (http://espnmediazone.com/us/espn-statement-regarding-grantland/)

[Subby]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">All <a href="https://twitter.com/Grantland33">@Grantland33</a> writers will have their contracts honored; intent is to use sports writers on other <a href="https://twitter.com/espn">@espn</a> platforms.</p>&mdash; James Andrew Miller (@JimMiller) <a href="https://twitter.com/JimMiller/status/660158782408949760">October 30, 2015</a></blockquote>
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