You make the call

[Flasch186]

In this example:

The buyer made an offer on Day 0 signing and dating the bottom of the Purchase and Sale Agreement (PASA) on the signature page, and sent it to the seller

On Day 1, the seller signed the bottom of the PASA on the signature line BUT they changed the purchase price on Page 1 and initialed and dated next to that change, constituting, in my opinion, a counter offer sending it back to the buyer

On Day 3, the buyer initialed and dated the price change on page 1, BUT, they also changed the closing date, on page 3, and initialed and dated that change, constituting, in my opinion, a counter offer, sending it back to seller

On Day 7, the seller initialed and dated the closing date change on that page of the PASA

On Day 8, this was finally emailed back to the buyers


The question:

What is the Date of Acceptance (The other Broker says Day 1 while I say Day 8)? Day 8 is the day we begin our day count from, correct?

[DaddyTorgo]

Day 8

[bbor]

The date on the confirmation of acceptance is the date the clock starts.

Day 1 would make no sense what so ever.If there was a 5 day condition of financing the condition would expire before the actual agreement was signed.

This guys a BOR???

[Flasch186]

It was a very difficult conversation today. I really feel/felt that this was basics. So stupid, that perhaps I'm missing something... Questioning my self-esteem. How could it be that I learned this 10 years ago and yet here I am, in a conversation with a Broker at one of the Largest Brokerages in the US (with a hot air balloon to boot), where I feel/felt like I was in bizarro world. But hey Im only 2 responses deep so maybe by the time I wake up in the morning someone will point out that Im the moron.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Day 8 ... with the only other possibility being Day 7 (if there was some weirdness in communication of the acceptance, which you don't indicate here).

No other date really seems possible if I'm reading this all correctly.

[Flasch186]

I think I typed it as clearly as I could as representative of the situation. Acceptance has to be conveyed in writing.

BOR? Broker of Real Estate? Ive never heard that acronym, I dont think.

[bbor]

Sorry...i'm using Canadian acronyms:)

Broker Of Record.

[britrock88]

Day 8 by the mailbox rule, unless the final acceptance (Day 7's) was communicated earlier in another fashion.

[MacroGuru]

Day 8, unless something was signed and faxed over on Day 7. Even a verbal agreement on Day 7 doesn't count.

The minute the price was modified on Day 1 it became a counter offer. Hell, we even learned that in the basic real estate class when I got my license in Utah.

[CraigSca]

What hinges on the "day of acceptance"? What are the legal ramifications of the 7 day window?

[albionmoonlight]

Under normal contract law, day 8 is the day that you have an contract.

Maybe there is something strange about "Date of Acceptance" as a term of art. But, other than that, I agree with the chorus about Day 8.

[Blackadar]

Day 8. Until that point you didn't have a contract - you had an ongoing negotiation.

Why is this important?

[Bobble]

Sorry...i'm using Canadian acronyms:)

Broker Of Record.

A-ha! There's your problem right there. Canadians, as I understand it, use something called "The Metric System" where, if I'm not mistaken, one day is 3.14 Canadian days .. but , wait!, take back one Kadan, to honor the Hebrew God whose ark this is. Therefore, they are right. It's day one. Simple math.

[Flasch186]

Day 8. Until that point you didn't have a contract - you had an ongoing negotiation.

Why is this important?

Some Broker here in town is claiming it is day 1 so that our buyer, who failed to achieve financing on a condo would not be protected under his financing condition and lose his deposit while on day 8 he would be. That being said, because the deposit was being held with an escrow agent anyways and not with us it'll have to go to mediation unless we can convince the other broker (who I have no hope for) to convince her seller that the contract calls for day 8, etc etc.

[Blackadar]

Some Broker here in town is claiming it is day 1 so that our buyer, who failed to achieve financing on a condo would not be protected under his financing condition and lose his deposit while on day 8 he would be. That being said, because the deposit was being held with an escrow agent anyways and not with us it'll have to go to mediation unless we can convince the other broker (who I have no hope for) to convince her seller that the contract calls for day 8, etc etc.

Tell that broker good luck with that shit and that once she loses in mediation, you'll make sure that everyone in the area knows she's an idiot and not to work with her. :D

[sterlingice]

I wish we still got "You Make the Call" commercials. Heck, some beer company could even parody them this year with calls made by replacement officials :D

SI

[JediKooter]

Some Broker here in town is claiming it is day 1 so that our buyer, who failed to achieve financing on a condo would not be protected under his financing condition and lose his deposit while on day 8 he would be.

My, 'Something seems shady' detector is beeping.

[MacroGuru]

Some Broker here in town is claiming it is day 1 so that our buyer, who failed to achieve financing on a condo would not be protected under his financing condition and lose his deposit while on day 8 he would be. That being said, because the deposit was being held with an escrow agent anyways and not with us it'll have to go to mediation unless we can convince the other broker (who I have no hope for) to convince her seller that the contract calls for day 8, etc etc.

So basically she either 1)Misinformed her client which is in breach of fiduciary duty or 2) She schemed with the seller to keep deposit money which is fraud or 3) She is a dipshit....

[Bisbo]

Unquestionably Day 8.

[Flasch186]

So I spoke to the head of the local Realtor's association and not only did he express shock especially when I told him who it was, he concurred that we (I) was absolutely right. Then a few minutes later I received a response from a prominent real estate attorney in the area that is affiliated with the Realtor's association:

Howard,

Each time an offer is changed in any respect by the recipient, it becomes a counter offer, and remains as such until all parties have signed off on the same terms, and fact of acceptance has been communicated in writing. Your date of acceptance would be the date when this occurs.

Best regards,

[Blackadar]

So I spoke to the head of the local Realtor's association and not only did he express shock especially when I told him who it was, he concurred that we (I) was absolutely right. Then a few minutes later I received a response from a prominent real estate attorney in the area that is affiliated with the Realtor's association:

The FOFC hivemind is never wrong. :)

[JediKooter]

You will be assimilated...

[Flasch186]

Looks like we'll be winning. The broker sent an email that there seller will be signing the release after she spoke with her agents. Im glad because she was looking really stupid.