FOFC Advanced Civilization, Take Two

[Passacaglia]

We're up to 8 players now, so we're starting a new game!

The order:

1. Passacaglia (sorry)
2. britrock
3. CrimsonFox
4. tarcone
5. Warhammer
6. path12
7. Autumn
8. furrball

[Passacaglia]

With the first pick in the FOFC Advanced Civilization, Take Two, Civilization Draft, Passacaglia selects....Egypt!

[Autumn]

Bastard.

[britrock88]

<-: Babylon

[Passacaglia]

CirmsonFox has selected Iberia.

[CrimsonFox]

oh. yeah. that... :)

I beria
You someplace else

( Only took me 5 minutes to figure out how to take my turn! ;) )

[Passacaglia]

I just noticed that furrball got last choice in both games.

[britrock88]

I just noticed that furrball got last choice in both games.

It's an FOFConspiracy!

[Passacaglia]

More picks are in!

1. Passacaglia -- Egypt
2. britrock -- Babylon
3. CrimsonFox -- Iberia
4. tarcone -- Crete
5. Warhammer -- Assyria
6. path12 -- Illyria
7. Autumn -- Thrace
8. furrball

[CrimsonFox]

He gets the raaaaains down in Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaafricaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

[Passacaglia]

He gets the raaaaains down in Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaafricaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Correct! furrball has chosen Africa.

We move on to Round 1. I'll keep updating this one as we go for the benefit of our dear readers, making it the "official" game, and I won't do it in the "Take One" game anymore, but feel free to discuss that game over there as much as you'd like!

1. Collect Taxes (possible city revolts)
2. Population Expansion
3. Census
4. Ship construction and maintenance
5. Movement
6. Conflict
7. City construction
8. Remove surplus population (check for city support)
9. Trade card acquisition
10. Trade
11. Resolve calamaties (check for city support)
12. Acquisition of civilization cards
13. Movement of succession markers on the AST

1 through 4 are pretty straightforward. No taxes, everyone expands from 1 to 2, no ship construction or maintenance. We go on to Movement. Not much to speak of there -- everyone's pretty much working their way to cities, the middle of the board, or their nearest neighbor. We're about halfway through the phase now.

[Passacaglia]

Update from Weekend play -- we're in to the Movement phase of Round 2 right now. Other phases have been pretty boring -- the gist now is that we've all got 4 population units to move around.

[Passacaglia]

And we're into Round 3. We had a little snafu where CF accidentally built a ship that didn't go anywhere, but we got the site admin to fix it. Everyone moved up to 8 population, with twocivs at 6:

Crete spent 2 population to build a ship. A wise move for Crete, since they need to get off of Crete and spread out somewhere else.
Illyria only expanded by 2. They must have had 4 population in either Germany or Pannonia, and since population expansion is limited to 2 per territory, they missed out on their potential expansion. Could be a mistake, or could be designed to have the last move in the round.

[path12]

And we're into Round 3. We had a little snafu where CF accidentally built a ship that didn't go anywhere, but we got the site admin to fix it. Everyone moved up to 8 population, with twocivs at 6:

Crete spent 2 population to build a ship. A wise move for Crete, since they need to get off of Crete and spread out somewhere else.
Illyria only expanded by 2. They must have had 4 population in either Germany or Pannonia, and since population expansion is limited to 2 per territory, they missed out on their potential expansion. Could be a mistake, or could be designed to have the last move in the round.

I got knocked out of somewhere by Thrace which is why I didn't get the second expansion. I think. I realize I've forgotten most everything about this game.

[Passacaglia]

We've finished the 4th round. We had some conflict in the 4th round -- I think this is the first round we had any, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Assyria and Babylon got into it a little. They fought in Aleppo, where each civ lost 1 population. Assyria ended up in control of the territory (at least, I assume so, since they have it now inj Round 5).

Illyria and Thrace also fought, in Illyricum. Each civ lost a population.

Africa has built a city, making them the first to do so.

Babylon and Egypt are the first civs to be held back in the AST. Those civs needed to have two cities in order to move up, but neither of them did so. Some other civs will have that requirement if they want to move up in the AST in Round 5: Africa, Iberia, Crete, and Assyria.

And now we're in Round 5. Here's the Census, after Population Expansion:

Egypt -- 32
Iberia -- 30
Babylon -- 30
Assyria -- 28
Thrace -- 27
Africa -- 20
Illyria -- 18
Crete -- 9

For those of you with 27 or above, you'll want to note that there's only 47 tokens. So if you keep your population as high as it is, you won't be able to expand as much as necessary. For example, Egypt has 32 population, so they would only be able to expand 15, instead of the 32 they could potentially expand otherwise. There's two ways to get rid of population if you want to maximize your expansion -- build cities, or attack your neighbor. Not that I'm trying to discourage anyone from attacking their neighbor, but you guys have probably figured out by now that building cities is important.

[Passacaglia]

Round 5 begins!

1. Collect Taxes (possible city revolts)
2. Population Expansion
3. Census
4. Ship construction and maintenance
5. Movement
6. Conflict
7. City construction
8. Remove surplus population (check for city support)
9. Trade card acquisition
10. Trade
11. Resolve calamaties (check for city support)
12. Acquisition of civilization cards
13. Movement of succession markers on the AST

Africa is the only civ with a city. They move two tokens from stock to treasury. And I kind of went through population expansion and census in my last post. I'm a little confused why the site has Assyria moving before Babylon, though. Babylon has the higher population, so they should be going first, unless I'm missing something.

[Passacaglia]

1. Collect Taxes (possible city revolts)
2. Population Expansion
3. Census
4. Ship construction and maintenance
5. Movement
6. Conflict
7. City construction
8. Remove surplus population (check for city support)
9. Trade card acquisition
10. Trade
11. Resolve calamaties (check for city support)
12. Acquisition of civilization cards
13. Movement of succession markers on the AST

Oh, that's what I'm missing. Assyria must have had a population of 30, then used 2 of them to build a ship. Looks like Thrace and Crete did as well. There's a lot of islands with good city sites, and those guys will have to dance around who gets to claim what.

[Passacaglia]

1. Collect Taxes (possible city revolts)
2. Population Expansion
3. Census
4. Ship construction and maintenance
5. Movement
6. Conflict
7. City construction
8. Remove surplus population (check for city support)
9. Trade card acquisition
10. Trade
11. Resolve calamaties (check for city support)
12. Acquisition of civilization cards
13. Movement of succession markers on the AST

We're almost done with this phase.

Egypt went first, spreading out a little, and putting 6 population in Memphis and Jerusalem, looking to build cities there. Those territories are inside Egyptian borders, so there's no other civ that can get to those territories to invade.

Iberia also positioned itself to build 2 cities, in Corduba and Massilla -- sticking 9 population in Massilla, just to make sure Illyria doesn't attack it.

Assyria went for more of a land grab. I'm not sure if they moved units with their ship, but they didn't move any to an island -- if they did use the ship, they used it to put some population in Sardes, in order to secure Asia Minor. Interestingly, they did not position themselves to build any cities.

Babylon doesn't look like they had much more room to spread out, but they did set themselves up for cities in Mari and Carrhae -- Carrhae borders Assyria, but since Assyria has already moved, they don't have to worry about them attacking.

Thrace spread out some, and possesses most of the Aegean peninsula now -- looks like they might have used their ship to move some units to the southern parts, Athens and Argos. They set up a city in Byzantium. It doesn't border anyone else, but Crete has a ship that can move units to attack it. Although if I'm counting right, they could only bring in 1 unit, so that attack would not prevent the city from bring built.

Illyria is next, then Crete will finish it up.

[britrock88]

Babylon here. Our homeland is an interesting place. There are several high-yielding farms with population limits of 3 or so, there are some well-protected city sites, and there are floodplains. Unfortunately, many regions possess two or more of those characteristics.

Wanting to take advantage of regions with more obvious advantages (low population city sites, high-yielding farms without city sites, and avoiding floodplains), I decided to make an effort toward eastern Asia Minor and toward Israel. However, Warhammer in Assyria defended well enough that I decided it would be counterproductive to continue to war over Assyria or Aleppo at this point. I thought longer about challenging Pass's moves into Jericho and Damascus from his home of Egypt, as there is some medium-term potential to pinch him at the Sinai Peninsula, but decided that consolidating around my nearer city sites would be a wiser play. Warhammer did mention the advantage that cities on large farms possess -- when they are reduced, the population loss is not as great. I thank him for pointing that out, but am also immediately suspicious of his intentions in future turns...

(You're welcome for me showing my hand, you guys. :D)

[Warhammer]

Babylon here. Our homeland is an interesting place. There are several high-yielding farms with population limits of 3 or so, there are some well-protected city sites, and there are floodplains. Unfortunately, many regions possess two or more of those characteristics.

Wanting to take advantage of regions with more obvious advantages (low population city sites, high-yielding farms without city sites, and avoiding floodplains), I decided to make an effort toward eastern Asia Minor and toward Israel. However, Warhammer in Assyria defended well enough that I decided it would be counterproductive to continue to war over Assyria or Aleppo at this point. I thought longer about challenging Pass's moves into Jericho and Damascus from his home of Egypt, as there is some medium-term potential to pinch him at the Sinai Peninsula, but decided that consolidating around my nearer city sites would be a wiser play. Warhammer did mention the advantage that cities on large farms possess -- when they are reduced, the population loss is not as great. I thank him for pointing that out, but am also immediately suspicious of his intentions in future turns...

(You're welcome for me showing my hand, you guys. :D)

Assyria will not be able to hold all of Asia Minor. Crete needs some space in the Aegean or they cause trouble for everyone. We need the Aleppo and Antioch city sites. I am a bigger fan of Babylon heading a bit further south to Jerusalem and Jericho. Its impossible for me to contest Egypt in Jerusalem and Jericho, and Babylon has a good chance of getting there quickly through Syria.

Also, in the interest of fairness, I would be concerned about me moving around the north flank. That can cause Babylon some issues later in the game. I pushed a bit, but wanted to see what you would do in the N. Levant, if you pushed more, I was going to make a much more concerted effort in the area (Adv. Civ is not a war game).

As the player of Egypt in the first FOFC game, I have no business being in the Levant cities. Egypt is way too strong if they can get a foothold there (of course with no Babylon in that game, that was a HUGE factor in me taking Egypt).

[Warhammer]

Also, I did not go for cities yet because early AST position is not critical. I can make up a turn later provided I get better foraging areas. Plus, moving before an aggressive Babylon, I was in a bad position if he really wanted to make enemies early.

[britrock88]

Aggressive is out of character for me. That being the case, I pulled back on this turn -- I was worried about what I saw Assyria doing on the very NE corner of the map, and what I saw Egypt doing on the very SE corner on the Arabian Peninsula. This gives me time to consolidate, build cities, and regroup for later-game situations.

[Passacaglia]

We've had one more movement -- Illyria has spread out some more, moved further into Italy, decided not to attack Iberia at Massilla (wise choice), but does appear to have attacked Thrace in Illyricum. Both civs have 2 population there, so they'll both lose one.

Crete will finish out the phase.

[Passacaglia]

Crete finishes out the movement phase. I'm not sure if they made any movements. But they caused no conflict, and built no cities.

[Passacaglia]

1. Collect Taxes (possible city revolts)
2. Population Expansion
3. Census
4. Ship construction and maintenance
5. Movement
6. Conflict
7. City construction
8. Remove surplus population (check for city support)
9. Trade card acquisition
10. Trade
11. Resolve calamaties (check for city support)
12. Acquisition of civilization cards
13. Movement of succession markers on the AST

Just one conflict, in Illyricum. But Illyria and Thrace had 2 units there, and Illyricum only holds 2. Since both civs had the same number of units, they removed tokens at the same time. Each removed 1, and they were left with 1 each, fitting in the limit of 2.

There was also a "coexist" in Athens. Crete and Thrace each had 1 unit there, and since it holds 2, no conflict was required.

[Passacaglia]

1. Collect Taxes (possible city revolts)
2. Population Expansion
3. Census
4. Ship construction and maintenance
5. Movement
6. Conflict
7. City construction
8. Remove surplus population (check for city support)
9. Trade card acquisition
10. Trade
11. Resolve calamaties (check for city support)
12. Acquisition of civilization cards
13. Movement of succession markers on the AST


I'm assuming there were no surprises, and city construction happened as I surmised in the movement phase:

• 2 Furrball [Africa] (1 new)
• 2 CrimsonFox [Iberia] (2 new)
• 0 path12 [Illyria]
• 1 Aeon [Thrace] (1 new)
• 0 Tarc [Crete]
• 0 Warhammer [Assyria]
• 2 britrock88 [Babylon] (2 new)
• 2 passacaglia [Egypt] (2 new)

I believe there was no removal of surplus population (if so, I didn't get an email about it), and everyone could support their cities.

[Passacaglia]

1. Collect Taxes (possible city revolts)
2. Population Expansion
3. Census
4. Ship construction and maintenance
5. Movement
6. Conflict
7. City construction
8. Remove surplus population (check for city support)
9. Trade card acquisition
10. Trade
11. Resolve calamaties (check for city support)
12. Acquisition of civilization cards
13. Movement of succession markers on the AST

We've finally got multiple civs with cities, so we collect some trade cards.

No one has enough to trade, so there's no trading, no calamities, and no purchasing of civilization cards.

[Passacaglia]

1. Collect Taxes (possible city revolts)
2. Population Expansion
3. Census
4. Ship construction and maintenance
5. Movement
6. Conflict
7. City construction
8. Remove surplus population (check for city support)
9. Trade card acquisition
10. Trade
11. Resolve calamaties (check for city support)
12. Acquisition of civilization cards
13. Movement of succession markers on the AST

Everyone moves up a spot, except Crete and Assyria. They both need two cities to enter the Early Bronze Age, and both have none.

Score:
Africa -- 602
Iberia -- 600
Thrace -- 550
Babylon -- 500
Illyria -- 500
Egypt -- 500
Crete -- 400
Assyria -- 400

[Passacaglia]

And we're on to Round 6!

1. Collect Taxes (possible city revolts)
2. Population Expansion
3. Census
4. Ship construction and maintenance
5. Movement
6. Conflict
7. City construction
8. Remove surplus population (check for city support)
9. Trade card acquisition
10. Trade
11. Resolve calamaties (check for city support)
12. Acquisition of civilization cards
13. Movement of succession markers on the AST

The civs that have cities are starting to build their treasury a little.

Africa -- 6
Iberia -- 4
Babylon -- 4
Egypt -- 4
Thrace -- 2

They can use this cash to build ships, or save it up to buy civilization cards (or buy a deck 9 card).

[Passacaglia]

1. Collect Taxes (possible city revolts)
2. Population Expansion
3. Census
4. Ship construction and maintenance
5. Movement
6. Conflict
7. City construction
8. Remove surplus population (check for city support)
9. Trade card acquisition
10. Trade
11. Resolve calamaties (check for city support)
12. Acquisition of civilization cards
13. Movement of succession markers on the AST

I think everyone but Assyria had enough tokens in stock to expand fully. After Assyria chose which territories of theirs would expand, we took the census:

• 47 Warhammer [Assyria]
• 40 passacaglia [Egypt]
• 39 Aeon [Thrace]
• 36 britrock88 [Babylon]
• 31 path12 [Illyria]
• 28 CrimsonFox [Iberia]
• 26 Furrball [Africa]
• 14 Tarc [Crete]

[Passacaglia]

1. Collect Taxes (possible city revolts)
2. Population Expansion
3. Census
4. Ship construction and maintenance
5. Movement
6. Conflict
7. City construction
8. Remove surplus population (check for city support)
9. Trade card acquisition
10. Trade
11. Resolve calamaties (check for city support)
12. Acquisition of civilization cards
13. Movement of succession markers on the AST

And here's where we are now.

Assyria spends 1 population to maintain their ship in Sardes.

Egypt spends all 4 of their treasury building ships in Tyre and Cyrenaica.

Thrace, Babylon, and Illyria build no ships.

Iberia, Africa, and Crete are up.

[Passacaglia]

Iberia has spent 4 population to build ships at Pyrenees and Narbo, dropping their population down to 24, but keeping their treasury at $4.

Africa and Crete are next.

[Passacaglia]

1. Collect Taxes (possible city revolts)
2. Population Expansion
3. Census
4. Ship construction and maintenance
5. Movement
6. Conflict
7. City construction
8. Remove surplus population (check for city support)
9. Trade card acquisition
10. Trade
11. Resolve calamaties (check for city support)
12. Acquisition of civilization cards
13. Movement of succession markers on the AST

I'm not going to go civ-by-civ on movement when it was all done since I last posted, but I'll skip to conflict:

Here are the results of all conflicts:
Petra: Mutual annihilation
• Population Limit: 1
• britrock88 [Babylon]
o Initial population: 2
o Population lost: 2
• passacaglia [Egypt]
o Initial population: 2
o Population lost: 2

Midian: Mutual annihilation
• Population Limit: 1
• britrock88 [Babylon]
o Initial population: 1
o Population lost: 1
• passacaglia [Egypt]
o Initial population: 1
o Population lost: 1

Jericho: Mutual annihilation
• Population Limit: 1
• britrock88 [Babylon]
o Initial population: 1
o Population lost: 1
• passacaglia [Egypt]
o Initial population: 1
o Population lost: 1

Athens: Coexist between Tarc [Crete] AND Aeon [Thrace]
• Population Limit: 2
• Tarc [Crete]
o Initial population: 2
o Population lost: 1
• Aeon [Thrace]
o Initial population: 2
o Population lost: 1

[Passacaglia]

So, basically, britrock decided to smack me around a little. Not cool, dude.

[Passacaglia]

1. Collect Taxes (possible city revolts)
2. Population Expansion
3. Census
4. Ship construction and maintenance
5. Movement
6. Conflict
7. City construction
8. Remove surplus population (check for city support)
9. Trade card acquisition
10. Trade
11. Resolve calamaties (check for city support)
12. Acquisition of civilization cards
13. Movement of succession markers on the AST

The following players have completed their city construction phase:
• 4 Furrball [Africa] (2 new)
• 3 CrimsonFox [Iberia] (1 new)
• 0 path12 [Illyria]
• 4 Aeon [Thrace] (3 new)
• 0 Tarc [Crete]
• 2 Warhammer [Assyria] (2 new)
• 5 britrock88 [Babylon] (3 new)
• 6 passacaglia [Egypt] (4 new)
City Construction is complete.


No surplus population needed to be removed.

[CrimsonFox]

can you explain cards and training?

[Passacaglia]

1. Collect Taxes (possible city revolts)
2. Population Expansion
3. Census
4. Ship construction and maintenance
5. Movement
6. Conflict
7. City construction
8. Remove surplus population (check for city support)
9. Trade card acquisition
10. Trade
11. Resolve calamaties (check for city support)
12. Acquisition of civilization cards
13. Movement of succession markers on the AST

We all collected trade cards, and some people have enough to make some trades. Personally, I've got 8 cards, so I can keep all my cards for next round without discarding any, so I'll worry about collecting sets next turn, and I've let the trading market. I think I don't get messages since I've left the market, so if some deals or near-deals go on, feel free to post about them!

[Passacaglia]

can you explain cards and training?

Sure. Each card has a point value, that corresponds to what deck you drew it from.

1 = Hides and Ochre
2 = Iron and Papyrus
3 = Salt and Timber
4 = Grain and Oil
5 = Wine and Cloth
6 = Bronze and Silver
7 = Spice and Resin
8 = Dye and Gems
9 = Gold and Ivory

Now, the more cards you have of each type, the more it's worth, somewhat exponentially. The formula to determine how much your set is worth is:

number of cards in the set squared x point value of the card

So if you have 3 Grain, it's worth 3 x 3 x 4 = 36. Note that we only count grain here, not oil. So the idea is, in order to make your hand worth more, you don't want a Hides, a Papyrus, a Timber, and an Oil (10 points total). You'd rather have 4 Papyrus (4x4x2=32 total). That's where trading comes in.

Another note about the cards, each deck contains calamities. These are bad, and you don't want them. Some calamities are tradeable:

2 Treachery
3 Superstition
4 Slave Revolt
5 Hordes
6 Epidemic
7 Civil Disorder
8 Iconoclasm & Heresy

Some are not, and if you get them, you're just stuck with them:

2 Volcano
3 Famine
4 Civil War
5 Flood

When you trade, you must trade at least three cards at a time. Obviously, no one will want to trade with you if you have a calamity, so it's okay to lie -- however you must tell the truth about at least two of the cards. The site lets you do this -- when you make trades, a "lie" button will pop up, letting you claim that card is something else. Obviously, you'll lie when you trade calamities. Note that if you use "unspecified" when lying, this basically means that you're acknowleding that that card is a lie, which means you have to be telling the truth about the other two. This is good because if I want Bronze from you, and you trade me Bronze, Timber, and Iron, but the Bronze is the lie, that really screws me. But if you give me Bronze, Timber, and Unspecified, I can accept the possibility of receiving a calamity from you, as long as I know I'm getting the Bronze.

Hopefully that helps! Feel free to ask any questions if it doesn't!

[CrimsonFox]

how is 3 grain = 3 x 3 x 4 when grain is worth 4.
It looks like you are multiplying values. Doesn't that mean 4 x 4 x 4?
then again papyrus is worth 2 so how are you going 4 x 4 x 2?

[CrimsonFox]

How do you actually make trades on site? I found i can pick up cards in my deck but i couldn't find where to move them. NOt that I really wanted to make a trade this turn but just trying to figure it out.

[Passacaglia]

how is 3 grain = 3 x 3 x 4 when grain is worth 4.
It looks like you are multiplying values. Doesn't that mean 4 x 4 x 4?
then again papyrus is worth 2 so how are you going 4 x 4 x 2?

It's number of cards in the set x number of cards in the set x point value.
So if you have 3 grain, number of cards in the set = 3 and point value = 4.
If you have 4 papyrus, number of cards in the set = 4 and point value = 2.

[Passacaglia]

How do you actually make trades on site? I found i can pick up cards in my deck but i couldn't find where to move them. NOt that I really wanted to make a trade this turn but just trying to figure it out.

On the right, you can see a rectangle for each civ. It's got their name, and their little message about what they have and what they want (if they've entered in a message -- to enter in a message like that yourself, enter it in the box on top next to "public message"). To make a trade, double-click on the rectangle of the civ you want to trade with. A box opens up -- drag at least three cards into the box, then select the cards you want to receive from the other civ. If a civ has proposed a trade to you, you'll see info on that in this box.

[Passacaglia]

1. Collect Taxes (possible city revolts)
2. Population Expansion
3. Census
4. Ship construction and maintenance
5. Movement
6. Conflict
7. City construction
8. Remove surplus population (check for city support)
9. Trade card acquisition
10. Trade
11. Resolve calamaties (check for city support)
12. Acquisition of civilization cards
13. Movement of succession markers on the AST

Looks like everyone has left the market, with no trading (I assume). No one had enough cash to buy civilization cards. Everyone moved up on the AST, except Crete and Illyria, since they don't have the two cities required to enter the Early Bronze Age.

[Passacaglia]

Round 7 begins!

1. Collect Taxes (possible city revolts)
2. Population Expansion
3. Census
4. Ship construction and maintenance
5. Movement
6. Conflict
7. City construction
8. Remove surplus population (check for city support)
9. Trade card acquisition
10. Trade
11. Resolve calamaties (check for city support)
12. Acquisition of civilization cards
13. Movement of succession markers on the AST

No city revolts when taxes are collected.

I didn't report the AST last post, and that's because collecting taxes happens immediately after, and I don't feel like doing the calculations to back it out. Here's the AST, and the last two digits (or the last two digits minus 50) are everyone's treasury:

1. Africa -- 812
2. Egypt -- 812
3. Thrace -- 810
4. Babylon -- 764
5. Iberia -- 760
6. Assyria -- 604
7. Illyria -- 500
8. Crete -- 400

[Warhammer]

So, basically, britrock decided to smack me around a little. Not cool, dude.

Egypt should be located in Egypt, not in the Levant!

On another note, the interface for movement and census is beginning to aggravate me. Last turn I should have had 2-3 more cities, but due to the game's interface requiring you to occasionally need to place/move the same guys multiple times, you wind up screwing up.

[britrock88]

So, basically, britrock decided to smack me around a little. Not cool, dude.

What, are 12 city sites not enough for ya? :p

[Passacaglia]

Egypt should be located in Egypt, not in the Levant!

On another note, the interface for movement and census is beginning to aggravate me. Last turn I should have had 2-3 more cities, but due to the game's interface requiring you to occasionally need to place/move the same guys multiple times, you wind up screwing up.

I tend to play pretty expansionistic, from what I've noticed in this game, the FOFC Take One game (where I've started in Illyria and have a pretty good foothold in Africa), and another game I'm in, where I'm Africa, and have a city in Fayum, population placed in Tanis, Gaza, Petra, Jerusalem, and Tyre, and a city in Jericho. Although in that case, I think I was simply allowed to do that because Egypt screwed up by building cities crazy early, leaving themselves with two nice cities in Buzhen and Memphis, but just 4 population, which allowed me lots of room to play. Although, in another game, as Crete, I'm having a lot of trouble expanding. I hate Crete.

I agree that the interface is not good, and it's messed me up, in other games. It's weird, when I played on this site a year or two ago, I didn't remember having this problem. My best suggestion is to have after you select "done - verfiy" you've got another chance to look around and make sure everything is set up the way you want it before selecting "done" again.

[Passacaglia]

What, are 12 city sites not enough for ya? :p

Fair enough. I don't want to be all "you should have played the way I would play" kind of guy, but I was surprised that you brought just enough guys in for mutual annihilation, when if you had brought in more population, you would have been able to keep guys in those territories, and maybe lost less population yourself. I don't know exactly what kind of resources you had available, though.

While I'm critiquing, though, another opportunity you had, if your goal was just to screw me over, was to ruin my city support. Your attack left me with 12 population to support my 6 cities -- if I went down to 11, I would have had to reduce a city. I probably would have reduced Fayum, which has a population limit of 5, but still, it would have been an annoyance.

If your goal was not to screw me over, and just to get some city sites for yourself, we also could have negotiated for it! I'm generally a pretty peaceful guy, not attacking anyone unless I have absolutely nothing better to do with my population, so I'm always up for solutions where I can avoid having my dudes killed.

[britrock88]

Fair enough. I don't want to be all "you should have played the way I would play" kind of guy, but I was surprised that you brought just enough guys in for mutual annihilation, when if you had brought in more population, you would have been able to keep guys in those territories, and maybe lost less population yourself. I don't know exactly what kind of resources you had available, though.

While I'm critiquing, though, another opportunity you had, if your goal was just to screw me over, was to ruin my city support. Your attack left me with 12 population to support my 6 cities -- if I went down to 11, I would have had to reduce a city. I probably would have reduced Fayum, which has a population limit of 5, but still, it would have been an annoyance.

If your goal was not to screw me over, and just to get some city sites for yourself, we also could have negotiated for it! I'm generally a pretty peaceful guy, not attacking anyone unless I have absolutely nothing better to do with my population, so I'm always up for solutions where I can avoid having my dudes killed.

As far as I recall, I used almost all or all of the tokens that were in range to attack you where I did.

At the same time, I remember looking into your city support situation, so I suppose the possibility was there to additionally attack you on another front. But I observed that you had a city at Fayum, which, like you suggested, would really have only cost you another token and a turn to rebuild the city, so I wasn't particularly drawn to make that extra attack.

And yes, I suppose I could have been civil and negotiated. I've done that in some of the non-FOFC games I started playing contemporaneously. In this instance, though, I just didn't feel like giving up anything in exchange! Maybe my attitude will change further down the line.

[CrimsonFox]

:popcorn:

[Passacaglia]

1. Collect Taxes (possible city revolts)
2. Population Expansion
3. Census
4. Ship construction and maintenance
5. Movement
6. Conflict
7. City construction
8. Remove surplus population (check for city support)
9. Trade card acquisition
10. Trade
11. Resolve calamaties (check for city support)
12. Acquisition of civilization cards
13. Movement of succession markers on the AST

Here's the Census:

• 47 path12 [Illyria]
• 43 Warhammer [Assyria]
• 37 Aeon [Thrace]
• 34 CrimsonFox [Iberia]
• 28 Furrball [Africa]
• 28 britrock88 [Babylon]
• 24 passacaglia [Egypt]
• 17 Tarc [Crete]

Illyria builds a ship in Samnium.
Assyria builds a ship in Galatia.
Thrace builds no ships.
Iberia builds ships in Balaeres and Caralis.

Some of these might have been maintained instead of built new, I didn't really try to find out.

Africa is up.

[Passacaglia]

Tarc, just an FYI, we're waiting on you in the Take Two game. I think you've made a move in the other game since then, so just in case you didn't know.

[Passacaglia]

Hopefully everyone is cool with a Thanksgiving break in both games.

[CrimsonFox]

more commentary!
:)

[Passacaglia]

more commentary!
:)

Yes -- more commentary is definitely warranted.

1. Collect Taxes (possible city revolts)
2. Population Expansion
3. Census
4. Ship construction and maintenance
5. Movement
6. Conflict
7. City construction
8. Remove surplus population (check for city support)
9. Trade card acquisition
10. Trade
11. Resolve calamaties (check for city support)
12. Acquisition of civilization cards
13. Movement of succession markers on the AST

We had some conflict happen after everyone moved...

Belgica: Coexist between path12 [Illyria] AND CrimsonFox [Iberia]
path12 [Illyria] Population lost: 2
CrimsonFox [Iberia] Population lost: 2

Gaul: CrimsonFox [Iberia] wins with 3 Population remaining.
path12 [Illyria] Population lost: 1
CrimsonFox [Iberia]

Athens: Aeon [Thrace] wins with 4 Population remaining.
Tarc [Crete] Population lost: 2
Aeon [Thrace] Population lost: 1

Little skirmish between Iberia and Illyria. Iberia wins with 3 in Gaul, but it only supports 1, so they'll actually lose 2 more.

Crete and Thrace fight a little. Again, Athens only supports 1, so Thrace is going to lose 3 more. Thrace had 5 there, which is an odd number. Looks like they might have been trying to build a city, but fell one short -- there's a post where Warhammer and I complain about the interface being screwy. Be sure to check that you've got 6 where you want to have 6, guys. But maybe I'm missing something, since Crete did attack -- why would they attack a territory with 5 in it?

So I'm on the fence a little about some stuff. I'm probably the most experienced player, or at least, have the most recent experience. I want to let people know if they've made mistakes, but I don't want to come off like I know everything about the game (which I don't), and like I'm telling everyone how to play. But maybe if it just generates discussion, it'll be more like an open group, rather than me just calling out people. Since I felt like this next commentary will just be calling out path, I was kind of hoping to skip it and pick up later, but let's go.

The following players have completed their city construction phase:
0 path12 [Illyria]
The current player is 4 Furrball [Africa] (+1 potential)
The following players may complete their city construction after Furrball is done:
3 CrimsonFox [Iberia] (+2 potential)
4 Aeon [Thrace] (+2 potential)
0 Tarc [Crete] (+1 potential)
2 Warhammer [Assyria] (+4 potential)
5 britrock88 [Babylon] (+2 potential)
6 passacaglia [Egypt] (+1 potential)

Looks like path is done constructing cities, so he's probably already aware of his mistake. Illyria has 6 population in Rubicon, Pannonia, and Illyricum, but unfortunately, none of those have the squares that make them good city sites -- so those territories need 12 to build a city. That's going to hurt them a bit, but not so bad they can't recover.

[CrimsonFox]

I actually projected losing more in the fight. I think he moved. ANyway I would have lost all these regardless.

I also forgot about the coexisting thing.

Ah well.

Smash em, bash em.

[Autumn]

Crete and Thrace fight a little. Again, Athens only supports 1, so Thrace is going to lose 3 more. Thrace had 5 there, which is an odd number. Looks like they might have been trying to build a city, but fell one short -- there's a post where Warhammer and I complain about the interface being screwy. Be sure to check that you've got 6 where you want to have 6, guys. But maybe I'm missing something, since Crete did attack -- why would they attack a territory with 5 in it?

Some context here: Crete and I (Thrace) have been coexisting in Athens for several turns. He landed some units there the same round I moved some in and we've both basically been just leaving it at that ever since. Every round we each have two, drop down to one each and leave it at that.

This turn I had extra units down in that area, so I decided to clear Athens out. I know moving 5 isn't a necessary move but those units were just going to die off as surplus population. So I just moved them all there--Crete had a move after me, so I wanted to make sure they didn't decide to move in more units.

[Autumn]

p.s. Pass - I'm waiting to hear from you on a trade in the other FOFC game.

[Passacaglia]

p.s. Pass - I'm waiting to hear from you on a trade in the other FOFC game.

Thanks. I'm pretty cool with the trade, but I want the Oil from Thrace as well as you, and I'm trying to get a deal in place with him and make sure he doesn't want Silver before I trade it to you.

[CrimsonFox]

Sure. Each card has a point value, that corresponds to what deck you drew it from.

1 = Hides and Ochre
2 = Iron and Papyrus
3 = Salt and Timber
4 = Grain and Oil
5 = Wine and Cloth
6 = Bronze and Silver
7 = Spice and Resin
8 = Dye and Gems
9 = Gold and Ivory

Now, the more cards you have of each type, the more it's worth, somewhat exponentially. The formula to determine how much your set is worth is:

number of cards in the set squared x point value of the card

So if you have 3 Grain, it's worth 3 x 3 x 4 = 36. Note that we only count grain here, not oil. So the idea is, in order to make your hand worth more, you don't want a Hides, a Papyrus, a Timber, and an Oil (10 points total). You'd rather have 4 Papyrus (4x4x2=32 total). That's where trading comes in.

Another note about the cards, each deck contains calamities. These are bad, and you don't want them. Some calamities are tradeable:

2 Treachery
3 Superstition
4 Slave Revolt
5 Hordes
6 Epidemic
7 Civil Disorder
8 Iconoclasm & Heresy

Some are not, and if you get them, you're just stuck with them:

2 Volcano
3 Famine
4 Civil War
5 Flood

When you trade, you must trade at least three cards at a time. Obviously, no one will want to trade with you if you have a calamity, so it's okay to lie -- however you must tell the truth about at least two of the cards. The site lets you do this -- when you make trades, a "lie" button will pop up, letting you claim that card is something else. Obviously, you'll lie when you trade calamities. Note that if you use "unspecified" when lying, this basically means that you're acknowleding that that card is a lie, which means you have to be telling the truth about the other two. This is good because if I want Bronze from you, and you trade me Bronze, Timber, and Iron, but the Bronze is the lie, that really screws me. But if you give me Bronze, Timber, and Unspecified, I can accept the possibility of receiving a calamity from you, as long as I know I'm getting the Bronze.

Hopefully that helps! Feel free to ask any questions if it doesn't!


okay. Is that all to trading? Moving cards and hitting done and waiting to see if the other person accepts? Or is there actual chatter and talking going on? Are you guys actually trading so far? Is it a secret that it happens?

[Passacaglia]

There's some other stuff that can help you out. On top, there's a "public message" window. You can type in there what you want, and what you have. You probably don't want to mention if you have any calamities, of course. If you look on the right, some people have already created a public message, so you can see what they want and what they have. There's also a link to email each person, too, so you can work out whatever deals you want in private. Or you can use some kind of IM, or even this thread -- I mean, playing the actual board game, we'd theoretically all be sitting at the same table, so it's not like we need to expect a ton of privacy. We can all start trading now, but I believe that no trading has occured. You'll get an email when two other people make a trade, unless you've left the market, by selecting Done in the upper right corner. Leaving the market is not final -- you can get back in if you want, but once everyone has left, trading is done. This phase usually takes a long time because of the back-and-forth involved between people.

[britrock88]

Yeah, hitting "done" leaves the market, so you typically want to hold off on that until you've made all the deals you want to. You can always "reset done" and jump back in, though.

And the public messages (hit enter or the "save MSG setting" button once you do) are very helpful in coordinating trades.

[CrimsonFox]

oh yeah. What do you do with these cards once you get a "set"? Does it automatically kick in? Do you "spend them" on stuff?

[Passacaglia]

It doesn't automatically kick in, since a set can be as big as you want it to be. Yes, after trading and calamities you can spend your cards, or keep them (up to 8 cards) for the next round.

[CrimsonFox]

wow if we have mopre than 8 cards we lose them?

[Passacaglia]

Yep. So you've got 10 cards. You've got to decide to either spend some and buy an advance, or discard your two worst. Remember that you'll discard any calamities you have, too. But, with 10, if you've got a hides and an ochre, it might be worth losing those, so that you can keep your set of 3 or so, knowing that it in another round you can make it 5 or 6 with some trades.

It's also important (IMO) to look at the AST at this time. You're in the Early Bronze Age now, but in two rounds, you're going to be able to move into the Late Bronze Age, and to do that, you will need three different colors of civ cards. FTR, the cheapest way to do that is by buying Mysticism, which is considered both black and blue, and costs $50, plus either Pottery or Cloth Making, which are orange and cost $45. Those are the two cheapest civ cards, and Mysticism is especially nice since it's so cheap, and two different colors.

[Passacaglia]

Autumn, did you reject my trade offer? I don't see an email about it, but it doesn't look like it's there any more.

Anyway, I'm not sure what kind of public message to make. I've got two Wine and one of everything else, but britrock is collecting Wine. Looking for good deals then, but not sure what other people want to do.

[Autumn]

I don't remember anymore, Pass. I've been working straight out on some school work and don't know what I'm doing anymore. Make an offer again and I'll look at it.

[britrock88]

I just shot an offer your way, Autumn.

CF -- what's your trading outlook?

[Autumn]

Unless CF or Pass has something I want, looks like I'm done trading. Check it out guys.

[Passacaglia]

Autumn, I've got Timber and Grain. I made you an offer.

[Passacaglia]

I'll post more proper updates later, but furrball is the only one in the market, so I think we're just done trading. Furrball, let's end this thing.

[CrimsonFox]

Oh is that why I can't do anything? It goes to the page for advances.
It shows money from cards but also says I have 0 dollars. I'm not sure how to change cards into cash. Are we just not at that point yet?

edit

okay i see i can look at potential purchases and then Add to Cart.

But here's an issue. It lists my "hand value".
That's like all the cards.
I don't want to spend ALL the cards, just my one set. I see nothing to say "spend this set and don't spend others".

[Passacaglia]

Oh is that why I can't do anything? It goes to the page for advances.
It shows money from cards but also says I have 0 dollars. I'm not sure how to change cards into cash. Are we just not at that point yet?

That's not why -- furrball has since left the market, and we resolved the only calamity we had, which was Treachery.

We're at the point where you should be able to buy advances. I think it should automatically take you to the advance purchase page. If not, click on 'advances' at the top. The page should have all the advances on the left, and near the bottom of the middle, it should say:

Unspent cash: $XX Cash from Trade Cards: $XX Treasury: $8

Are you saying some of those say 0? You should be able to click on an advance (or multiple advances) and add it to the shopping cart at this stage, then you pay for it with cards and treasury on the next page, after you click Done.

[Passacaglia]

Just saw the EDIT. On the first page, all you're doing is choosing the advances you want. You decide how to pay for it on the next page.

[Passacaglia]

Back in half an hour if you need more help.

[CrimsonFox]

hmmmm does it givechange i wonder. Got to the "spend cards" phase.

[CrimsonFox]

okay i think i did something and it's telling me nothing to do. So I bought something yay. Can't really see if i got change for my purchase.

will eventually i guess

[Passacaglia]

You do not get change.

[CrimsonFox]

what's with the population explosion?
what do i do?
manually increase my countries now?

[Passacaglia]

Exactly. You would normally increase 15 tokens, since your population is 17, and everything can double except for the 3rd tokens in Aquitania and Narbo. But, if you click on AST, you'll see that you only have 12 tokens in your surplus. So you have to choose which 12 of the 15 actually get to expand.

[Autumn]

CF, post your trade wants! Or nobody can ever trade with you!!

[Autumn]

I think I'm waiting on a request to you Pass and then we could close up this sorry excuse for a trade round.

[Passacaglia]

Sorry about the delay.

[CrimsonFox]

I love how the game dicks me with cards like this and then sends me an email nagging me with "Hey! YOu have to remove cities and population now! Come on! Hurry up and lose! YOu're holding up the game!"

[Passacaglia]

Yes, you did get pretty screwed there. But the good news is that since you can't have more than two calamities, Superstition got thrown out. And Slave Revolt did nothing to you. So really it was just the Volcano. Kind of a jerk move for the guy who got Epidemic to hit you with it IMO, since you already suffered a calamity, but it's only 2 points, and you're one of the few civs who has any technology, and you guys are neighbors, even if naval.

But also, there's no deadline in the game, so take all the time you need, even if you get emails.

[CrimsonFox]

I'm surprised it wasn't Autumn ;)

[Autumn]

Hey! I helped you out here.

[CrimsonFox]

JUST kidding :)

[CrimsonFox]

did i mention how much i hate that website?

I think I just lost a lot of money for buying things.

[britrock88]

Bump?

[britrock88]

Just received 4 calamities (Civil War {NT}, Flood {NT}, Epidemic, and Iconoclasm/Heresy) in the Collect Trade Cards phase of a different game. Craziness.

[Autumn]

Waiting on Pass in a trade in the first game, on him to purchase cards in this one.

[CrimsonFox]

How about we just say everybody wins...
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[britrock88]

Waiting on Tarc in both games. Maybe I'm overly optimistic about our chances to finish, though...

[Autumn]

I was going to bump this but then realized that the one we're waiting on is CF. D'oh!

[britrock88]

But CF's out of the box!

[britrock88]

...Pass?