2012-13 NBA Regular Season Thread, Feel the Heat

[stevew]

It's hard to believe that it's just 10 days out for the regular season to start. I'm interested in seeing how bad the Cavs will be again.

[korme]

Amar'e out 2-3 weeks and will miss the opener.

[korme]

I love the Grizz-Pacers option. Two fun, underdog teams

[Groundhog]

Had my first ever offline fantasy draft yesterday, but drew the #12 pick... banking heavily on Dwight Howard and Steph Curry staying healthy (yikes), and also Demarcus Cousins to not miss four 3s a game while grabbing a truckload of boards. O.J. Mayo living up to his promise would also suit me just fine.

As far as the Cavs go, I think they should at least be a little more entertaining this year. C.J. Miles was a nice pickup and gives us a little speed and shooting on the wing, while Waiters has been better than I expected in preseason, especially defensively. I think it's kinda off that they are grooming him as a backup PG rather than trying him off the ball, but hey, what do I know, clearly that's what you look for at #4.

[Desnudo]

Celtics vs. Lakers. Banking on Lebron contracting mono.

[TroyF]

Nuggets baby!!!!!!

Well, they'll be fun to watch and Hollinger likes em anyway, we have that going for us.

[Groundhog]

Nuggets should remain one of the most enjoyable teams to watch I think. I really like the style of teams that the Nuggets/Pacers/Sixers have put together, and I hope it can be successful.

[Leroy Veritas]

Thunder vs Nets.

[Neon_Chaos]

Go Lakers!

[Groundhog]

I hope the Thunder take it, but I have to admit it would be interesting watching two teams I really don't care for at all go at it in Heat-Lakers. I guess I would be rooting for the Lakers solely due to Nash, which would be a strange feeling.

[EagleFan]

Sixers/Thunder!!!

Celtics are done, they are in the "other" range.

[stevew]

The Celtics have at least one more chance.

[Groundhog]

Yeah agreed on the Celtics. Overall, even with the loss of Allen and another year on Garnett and Pierce, they've had a positive injection of talent. Not sure how those guards are all going to get minutes when Bradley is back, but I definitely don't think you can count them out.

[korme]

So this just happened in my fantasy draft:

Boomshakalaka: No one take waiters hes the next rookie on my list
You Shoot I Block: i wouldnt take him if you gave me 20 dollars
We're All Stars Now: i would not take waiters ever
Kobe24 has selected Dion Waiters (CLE)

[BishopMVP]

Yeah agreed on the Celtics. Overall, even with the loss of Allen and another year on Garnett and Pierce, they've had a positive injection of talent. Not sure how those guards are all going to get minutes when Bradley is back, but I definitely don't think you can count them out.Agreed - just look at the minute distribution of Game 7 vs. Miami last year (where they were tied going into the 4th quarter)
Rondo: 44
Pierce: 42 (not 100%)
Bass: 40
Allen: 39
Garnett: 35
Pietrus: 22
Hollins: 9
Dooling: 6
Steimsma: 2

Let's ignore who'll actually start and say Courtney Lee replaces Ray Allen (different styles, but about equally effective at this point of Allen's career), that means you replace that abomination of a bench with Jason Terry, Jeff Green, Jared Sullinger, Leandro Barbosa, and Avery Bradley in a couple months.

None of it matters if Garnett (and obviously Rondo, but he's not old) isn't healthy come playoff-time, and playing at least near the level he did late last year, but the bench is so improved I love the matchups we can throw out and the extra rest we can give the starters. In games where Sullinger plays with the first unit, we might even run and press at times with that second unit (Bass/Green/Terry/2 of Rondo/Lee/Bradley/Pierce) like Rivers did in Orlando

[Chief Rum]

I don't think the Clippers have been overlooked in the West, because who can they step over? The Lakers adding Nash and Howard? The young Thunder one year better? The indomnitable force that is the Spurs?

That said, this Clippers team could be very, very good. They did some nice underrated things in the offseason. Griffin and DJ had shooting coaches over the summer and will be a year better. CP3 is CP3. Billups is already back practicing with the team and should be starting again by the end of November.

What really has me excited, though, is the depth. Jamal Crawford may be a ballhog who can shoot teams out of games as often as he shoots them into them, but he definitely can bring scoring. He replaces Mo Williams, and that's at least a wash in my mind. Willie Green is a very underrated pickup in the guard rotation, and Bledsoe showed how much he has been developing in the playoffs last year. Caron Butler is a year older, and Odom is a mystery. But they're vets who know what they're doing. Then add Matt Barnes and Ryan Hollins as decent quality backups to Griffin and DJ, and you have a deep and solid rotation. They even brought in Grant Hill.

The defense always worries me, and that's what could hold back this team. CP3 is fine, but straight up man D among the others is understood about as well as quantum physics. Griffin can be solid at D if he applies himself. Jordan blocks a lot of shots and disturbs with his height and reach, but he has always been a shot blocker, not a post defender, and he's still too thin to hold up against some of the bigger, blockier big men. The swing men are all either too disinclined to play D or too old to do it well anymore.

[stevew]

Clippers max out at 56 wins. They are a good but not great team.

[stevew]

Found some lines.

Regular Season Wins -
Atlanta Hawks 43.0
Boston Celtics Over 50.5
Brooklyn Nets Over 44.5
Charlotte Bobcats 20.5
Chicago Bulls-no line
Cleveland Cavaliers 31.5
Dallas Mavericks 44.5
Denver Nuggets 50.5
Detroit Pistons 32.5
Golden State Warriors 35.5
Houston Rockets 30.5
Indiana Pacers 51.5
Los Angeles Clippers 49.5
Los Angeles Lakers 59.5
Memphis Grizzlies 48.5
Miami Heat 60.5
Milwaukee Bucks 36.5
Minnesota Timberwolves no line
New Orleans Hornets 25.5
New York Knicks 46.5
Oklahoma City Thunder 60.5
Orlando Magic 23.5
Philadelphia 76ers 47.5
Phoenix Suns 33.5
Portland Trailblazers 34.5
Sacramento Kings 29.5
San Antonio Spurs 54.5
Toronto Raptors 32.5
Utah Jazz 42.5
Washington Wizards 31.5

[stevew]

Just at a quick glance-
I like the Mavs, Rockets, Grizzlies, Celtics and Kings over.

Wizards, Raptors, 76ers, Hawks, Nets all under.

[sterlingice]

Man, Houston just isn't very good at taking. Even going full tank, they are projected 5th from the bottom with Sacramento, Orlando, New Orleans, and Charlotte all worse. Cleveland, Detroit, Phoenix, Toronto, Washington all within 2 games.

SI

[Chief Rum]

Clippers max out at 56 wins. They are a good but not great team.

Boo! You always poopoo the Clippers chances. :)

I agree, though--I don't think their defensive issues will allow them to win more than that.

That said, I definitely like the over for the Clips on the line you posted. Set at 49.5? This is definitely a 50 win team if it can stay healthy.

[stevew]

The Kings are +25000 to win the NBA title. Of all the shit teams near the bottom, they at least strike me as the team with some serious grade A talent. Not saying Boogie will put it together and stop chucking 3's or that Jimmer-mania will happen, but don't they at least seem like they could backdoor into the playoffs?

[MacroGuru]

I have to say I lost all interest in my team (Jazz) when they allowed Deron Williams to run Sloan and Johnson out of town and then turned around and traded Deron.

To me...they are dead..

[Chief Rum]

The Kings are +25000 to win the NBA title. Of all the shit teams near the bottom, they at least strike me as the team with some serious grade A talent. Not saying Boogie will put it together and stop chucking 3's or that Jimmer-mania will happen, but don't they at least seem like they could backdoor into the playoffs?

I think when it comes to the West, the question becomes who do they displace? Thunder, Spurs, Lakers, Clips, Grizz are locks, IMO.

That leaves three spots. I think for sure the Nuggets get a spot, too. If the Mavs surivive Nowitzki's injury early on, they're in, too. Let's say they do. So that leaves just one spot.

The likely contenders there are the Blazers, Jazz and Wolves. Those are tough for a team at the level the Kings are to beat over an 82 game season, IMO.

Not saying it can't happen, and you're right, the Kings have some very nice developing talent. But I am not sure that talent is developed enough yet to move them up too far in the super-talented West.

[korme]

I don't think the Clippers have been overlooked in the West, because who can they step over? The Lakers adding Nash and Howard? The young Thunder one year better? The indomnitable force that is the Spurs?

That said, this Clippers team could be very, very good. They did some nice underrated things in the offseason. Griffin and DJ had shooting coaches over the summer and will be a year better. CP3 is CP3. Billups is already back practicing with the team and should be starting again by the end of November.

What really has me excited, though, is the depth. Jamal Crawford may be a ballhog who can shoot teams out of games as often as he shoots them into them, but he definitely can bring scoring. He replaces Mo Williams, and that's at least a wash in my mind. Willie Green is a very underrated pickup in the guard rotation, and Bledsoe showed how much he has been developing in the playoffs last year. Caron Butler is a year older, and Odom is a mystery. But they're vets who know what they're doing. Then add Matt Barnes and Ryan Hollins as decent quality backups to Griffin and DJ, and you have a deep and solid rotation. They even brought in Grant Hill.

The defense always worries me, and that's what could hold back this team. CP3 is fine, but straight up man D among the others is understood about as well as quantum physics. Griffin can be solid at D if he applies himself. Jordan blocks a lot of shots and disturbs with his height and reach, but he has always been a shot blocker, not a post defender, and he's still too thin to hold up against some of the bigger, blockier big men. The swing men are all either too disinclined to play D or too old to do it well anymore.

A fascinating Jamal Crawford story is that he told a reporter this is the first season he has worked on his jumper. He's never practiced in the offseason, and this was his first year doing so with a program.

Umm, wow. It's both surprising and not surprising. The fact an 11-year pro who loves to shoot never shoots in the offseason and has been relatively successful in his career is mind-boggling.

[Chief Rum]

A fascinating Jamal Crawford story is that he told a reporter this is the first season he has worked on his jumper. He's never practiced in the offseason, and this was his first year doing so with a program.

Umm, wow. It's both surprising and not surprising. The fact an 11-year pro who loves to shoot never shoots in the offseason and has been relatively successful in his career is mind-boggling.

Oh yeah, I know. I read that story, too. Unbelievable. Who knows if it would even help at this point, either. I am thinking it's more likely to just screw up his mechanics.

[Groundhog]

A fascinating Jamal Crawford story is that he told a reporter this is the first season he has worked on his jumper. He's never practiced in the offseason, and this was his first year doing so with a program.

Umm, wow. It's both surprising and not surprising. The fact an 11-year pro who loves to shoot never shoots in the offseason and has been relatively successful in his career is mind-boggling.

Why would he need to practice during the offseason, when he can just get his practice in during the regular season, throwing up jumpers at will? :D

[Groundhog]

The Kings are +25000 to win the NBA title. Of all the shit teams near the bottom, they at least strike me as the team with some serious grade A talent. Not saying Boogie will put it together and stop chucking 3's or that Jimmer-mania will happen, but don't they at least seem like they could backdoor into the playoffs?

Kings have acquired young talent, but it's just that the talent does not cohesively mesh together... IMO they should look to move 2 or 3 of their young talents not named DeMarcus to try and get one bigger name to team up with him inside, and hope DeMarcus matures and stops shooting 3s and turning the ball over.

[stevew]

Big news today....Stern announcing he will end his reign of terror on Feb 1, 2014

[molson]

Big news today....Stern announcing he will end his reign of terror on Feb 1, 2014

I wonder if Gary Bettman's interested.

[Izulde]

Adam Silver will be Stern's replacement.

[Vince, Pt. II]

I think when it comes to the West, the question becomes who do they displace? Thunder, Spurs, Lakers, Clips, Grizz are locks, IMO.

That leaves three spots. I think for sure the Nuggets get a spot, too. If the Mavs surivive Nowitzki's injury early on, they're in, too. Let's say they do. So that leaves just one spot.

The likely contenders there are the Blazers, Jazz and Wolves. Those are tough for a team at the level the Kings are to beat over an 82 game season, IMO.

Not saying it can't happen, and you're right, the Kings have some very nice developing talent. But I am not sure that talent is developed enough yet to move them up too far in the super-talented West.

*delusional fan alert*

If Curry and Bogut can stay healthy, the Warriors will be in the mix for that slot too.

[korme]

Adam Silver will be Stern's replacement.

Good

[korme]

I will be sad to see Stern go.

[stevew]

I will be sad to see Stern go.

I can't remember which team you are a fan of, but I certainly won't be sad at all.

[RainMaker]

Stern's first half may be one of the most brilliant runs in history of any commissioner in sports. His second half has been rather terrible.

[Groundhog]

The NBA was pretty woeful for about 5 years or so, but the past 3 seasons have been the best in a long time.

[korme]

I can't remember which team you are a fan of, but I certainly won't be sad at all.

just a hoophead. don't really have a team anymore, that's the one nice thing about no pro bball team in cincy is i have no hard-coded affiliation. so i get to root for 15 teams a night if i choose

[kingfc22]

Harden to the Rockets. Wow...

[Bigsmooth]

(https://twitter.com/DonBestSports)

@DonBestSports

Oklahoma City Thunder have traded James Harden to Houston Rockets. OKC receives Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb & future draft considerations.



Whoa. Didn't see that coming.

[SirFozzie]

Whafuck?

[Leroy Veritas]

Guess they didn't want to sink the money into 3 guards long term.

[JPhillips]

Couldn't you keep him for the year and get basically the same package in a sign and trade? Why trade him now?

[stevew]

There's a Chance the Thunder were just over him and didn't want to deal with him all year and then RFA drama next summer(matching his deal and then he could void a trade the following season)

[bhlloy]

Yeah, that's a Sam Presti move I don't get. Kevin Martin is going to be a horrible addition to that team. Lamb has some potential and I'm sure they will use the draft picks well but picking up Martin is subtraction by addition. Unless they already know they can swing Martin somewhere else but I don't know what they could get that's close to Harden's impact.

My facebook feed is full of gloating Laker fans and I have to say I agree with them. OKC is nowhere near as intimidating a team now.

[sterlingice]

I'm not sure what to make of the Harden deal. Those are some good draft picks and Lamb seems like he could be good in a couple of years but Harden is good now. However, Harden on a max deal...?

SI

[stevew]

I think the Thunder also got the Bobcats #2 in 2013(probably 33rd overall at worst), a Raptors pick with the following protections(Top 3 protected and 15-30 in 2013, top 2 protected and 15-30 in 2014 and '15, Top 1 protected and 15-30 in 2016 and '17, and unprotected in 2018.)
and another pick that I think is the Mavs pick this year(top 20 protected until 2017)

This avoids luxury tax problems and Martin and Lamb should offset Harden's loss this year.

[sterlingice]

It definitely makes the Thunder better long term but worse short term.

I think I'm really coming around to liking this deal for Houston. I'm trusting Morey's judgement in giving Harden a max deal.

Also, somehow we deal more pieces yet end up bulking up the roster even more because some of what we gave up were draft picks.

SI

[sterlingice]

Also, which would you rather have? What OKC got for Harden or what Orlando got for Howard?

SI

[Groundhog]

Holy hell, did not see that coming. Thunder might get a bit worse short term yeah, but their window is pretty large. Let Lakers and Heat battle it out for the next 2 years, by then you've got Durant/Westbrook/Ibaka all still in their prime and you are ready to be the big dogs.

Martin is no Harden, but you can bring him in at the 2 and 3 spots and give him the greenlight basically. They have the depth at PG in the underrated Maynor, and Aldritch is addition by subtraction. No team with Westbrook and Durant is ever going to be a push-over though, and Ibaka might be ready for a breakout year too given how good he has looked this offseason. Harden or not, these guys are still a contendor.

[stevew]

This also likely keeps OKC way out of the tax in 2013-14, i have them around 65m.

And not to start a conspiracy, but if they trade Ibaka and amnesty Perkins, they could add LeBron in 2014.

[Desnudo]

Holy hell, did not see that coming. Thunder might get a bit worse short term yeah, but their window is pretty large. Let Lakers and Heat battle it out for the next 2 years, by then you've got Durant/Westbrook/Ibaka all still in their prime and you are ready to be the big dogs.

Martin is no Harden, but you can bring him in at the 2 and 3 spots and give him the greenlight basically. They have the depth at PG in the underrated Maynor, and Aldritch is addition by subtraction. No team with Westbrook and Durant is ever going to be a push-over though, and Ibaka might be ready for a breakout year too given how good he has looked this offseason. Harden or not, these guys are still a contendor.

It will be interesting to see who is responsible for passing

[RainMaker]

I don't understand the move for the Thunder at all unless it's all about money.

[stevew]

It seems to be alot about money. It's also not an insignificant amount of money either, though. I know that owners love to sell poverty to the fans, but it was going to be like 20m or more a year once they started paying the double top secret penalty amounts.

[stevew]

saw this on deadspin. Obviously groundbreaking work by Broussard, once again.

[Groundhog]

It seems to be alot about money. It's also not an insignificant amount of money either, though. I know that owners love to sell poverty to the fans, but it was going to be like 20m or more a year once they started paying the double top secret penalty amounts.

Yeah, the way I see it, the Thunder have decided they have two top-10 guys on max deals, a big contract on a young bigman in Ibaka, which means Harden at max is a luxury they can't afford to have. So now they have Martin coming on the court at the 2/3 spots for scoring, a promising young SG in Lamb, and some draft picks that may turn out to be decent players. Would you rather have Martin&Lamb than Harden in 2012-13? Of course not, but given the circumstances the Thunder have done pretty well IMO.

As for the Rockets, well, let's see what Harden can do as "the man". 25-5-3 is reachable IMO, though so is 18ppg on bad shooting numbers.

[Crapshoot]

Meh, I'm with Simmons. This is a team that is minting money and deciding to step back in a year when they have a legitimate title shot, because the owner is being cheap. The idiots (and I'm not saying here) blaming Harden for this are surreal.

[Groundhog]

Anyone who blames Harden is just angry... he's clearly a max player, and definitely a step ahead of, say, Eric Gordon. But I still say Thunder made the right move. If this was a video game, yeah, you give Harden the money and run off a bunch of championships, but in real life you have to be a bit more sensible for a bunch of reasons, not just the tax. I think with Durant and Westbrook, Serge is more important than Harden.

[jbergey22]

Anyone who blames Harden is just angry... he's clearly a max player, and definitely a step ahead of, say, Eric Gordon. But I still say Thunder made the right move. If this was a video game, yeah, you give Harden the money and run off a bunch of championships, but in real life you have to be a bit more sensible for a bunch of reasons, not just the tax. I think with Durant and Westbrook, Serge is more important than Harden.


Martin if he can stay healthy can probably stay close enough to Harden offensively but that guy is just brutal on defense. An opposing shooting guard constantly blows up on him. Im really not sure this was the right time to trade Harden.

[sterlingice]

I like Martin a lot on offense but after the rule changes last year and the "basketball reasons" trade, his offensive production went way down. He's a horrible sieve on defense. If he's offensively producing, he can more than make up for that but if he isn't, then he's a liability.

SI

[stevew]

If the Rockets could just add a good big guy like Luis Scola or someone, I'd say they could compete.

[duckman]

Harden wasn't exactly stellar on defense. He had problems going against the better guards. I don't think Martin starts, so he'll go against 2nd unit guards which should help minimize his impact on that end.

[sterlingice]

If the Rockets could just add a good big guy like Luis Scola or someone, I'd say they could compete.

I think they're just going to super glue together the 6 or 7 PFs still on the roster to make one giant PF!

That and they needed the salary space for the potential other deals that fell through.

I really like Scola, miss him, and wish him well in Phoenix.

SI

[korme]

Very interesting to see how Harden will do as "the guy". I think this was a move OKC didn't want to make but ultimately had to. They'll be fine

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

- they took a team from the 14th largest tv market (and best sports town) to a city w/ the 45th largest tv market. if they stay in seattle the cost benefit of the luxury tax may be worth it (probably not with these owners. but it's a thought)

- presti is more lucky than good. before the wave of lottery picks he was considered the worst gm in the league. his refusal to amnesty perkins is failing to admit defeat. plus, if there's any truth that they were offered the 2nd pick straight up for harden then this deal looks really really bad. you have a highly coveted asset and you downgraded. and you didn't even test his market value you surrendered to morey in a pouty fit. just bad gm-ing

- this is your future thunder fans. even after making the finals your owners will never go all in

[sooner333]

Worst GM because he should have locked up Rashard Lewis long term?

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

blew up a team that won the west (reg season)
ray allen and glen davis for wally sczerbiak/delonte west/jeff green
got only a 2nd and a trade exc. for rashard lewis (who was a top ten guy at the time) and it was otis smith ffs
hired pj carlesimo (brooks fell into the job)

unless you buy into the idea they tanked on purpose. he did fleece colangelo(or kerr, can't remember)

[stevew]

If you have elite players drop in your lap in 3 straight drafts, you look good.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

anyone that believes in karma has never followed sports. irsay turns the hijacked colts into 30 years of manning/luck. modell steals the browns and immediately wins a sb. and now the zombie sonics

seinfeld was right. you're just cheering for laundry.

[sooner333]

The Sonics won the Northwest Division in 04-05 and didn't make the playoffs after that. They won 35 games in 05-06 and 31 games in 06-07. Presti was hired after the latter campaign. Sure, he blew up a team, but it was not one that was on an upward trend.

[Leroy Veritas]

anyone that believes in karma has never followed sports. irsay turns the hijacked colts into 30 years of manning/luck. modell steals the browns and immediately wins a sb. and now the zombie sonics

seinfeld was right. you're just cheering for laundry.

The Colts had 5 winning seasons in their first 15 in Indianapolis, none above 9 wins. They sucked for quite a while after leaving Baltimore.

The Browns left Cleveland because the city wouldn't help replace the dump the Browns were playing in. That wasn't a team being stolen, it was a city letting them leave. It took them 5 years to have a winning season, where they won a SB, and they haven't made one in 10 years since then.

Just like Cleveland, Seattle refused to replace the dump of an arena and the owners didn't wait around. A bad team left a city that prioritized other things. That's the reality of sports in a franchise system.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

i got nothing against okc fans. but your owner deserves the bobcats

the real asshole in all this is the portand doctor who green lit a gimp legged center with progeria

[albionmoonlight]

If you want to maximize your return on investment, put your money in the stock market.

I don't understand the logic of owning a major-league pro sports team and then trying to run it on the cheap. Yeah, it would be hella-expensive to pay Durant, Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka. But so what? Things that are awesome are sometimes expensive. And if being awesome isn't the point, then why are you owning a sports team? There's better ways to make money.

[Chief Rum]

My playoff predictions:

West

1. Lakers
2. Spurs
3. Thunder
4. Clippers
5. Jazz
6. Grizzlies
7. Nuggets
8. Mavs

East

1. Miami
2. New Jersey
3. Boston (better record than Central Division champ)
4. Indiana
5. Philadelphia
6. Atlanta
7. New York
8. Chicago

Lakers over Thunder in WCF
Heat over Celtics in ECF

Heat over Lakers in Finals

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

If you want to maximize your return on investment, put your money in the stock market.

I don't understand the logic of owning a major-league pro sports team and then trying to run it on the cheap. Yeah, it would be hella-expensive to pay Durant, Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka. But so what? Things that are awesome are sometimes expensive. And if being awesome isn't the point, then why are you owning a sports team? There's better ways to make money.
used to be. times have changed. most leagues are set up now to prevent owners from losing money. and tv contracts are $$$

even the teams that claim poverty are lying out their ass. they won't open their books because they're shuttling money out the backdoor through proxy company contracts

[Chief Rum]

NTO, you seem riled up. You need a movie draft. :)

[sterlingice]

If you want to maximize your return on investment, put your money in the stock market.

I don't understand the logic of owning a major-league pro sports team and then trying to run it on the cheap. Yeah, it would be hella-expensive to pay Durant, Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka. But so what? Things that are awesome are sometimes expensive. And if being awesome isn't the point, then why are you owning a sports team? There's better ways to make money.

If you're that rich, playing the stock market is a sucker's bet. You want to be up against Goldman Sachs and their dirty pool or quant traders who are sucking the fractions of pennies out of your stock value every millisecond? You buy whole companies or franchises- something you can mostly control.

The Stock Market is still for Suckers and why you should put your money in the bank « blog maverick (http://blogmaverick.com/2010/08/20/the-stock-market-is-still-for-suckers-and-why-you-should-put-your-money-in-the-bank/)

SI

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

love sports. hate everything to do with sports. frustrated roto geek. sorry for threadjacking. way way too much coffee

edit: re chief- soon. though frankly every time i have an idea for a remake i find out they're already remaking it. in the future hollywood will make the same 20 movies every 60 days

[BishopMVP]

If you have elite players drop in your lap in 3 straight drafts, you look good.Durant fell into their lap, but you have to give him some credit for picking Westbrook and Harden. Neither one was a consensus sure thing coming into the draft.

[Groundhog]

From memory Harden was picked around where he was expected, but Westbrook was certainly not a sure thing. Westbrook and Holiday are good examples as to why elite PGs should seemingly not attend UCLA...

[stevew]

Chad Ford had Westbrook going #4 and Harden or Rubio were the logical #3 picks that year.

At least nobody drafted Joe Alexander...wow.

[stevew]

I know Delonte West is a head case, but he should be on a team. Pretty sad when the mavs dump you for friggin Eddy Curry.

[Groundhog]

Chad Ford had Westbrook going #4 and Harden or Rubio were the logical #3 picks that year.

At least nobody drafted Joe Alexander...wow.


For some reason I though Westbrook was projected lower. And Joe Alexander... lol... Forgot all about that guy. Now plying his trade in Russia apparently.

[BishopMVP]

Neither was a huge reach either, but both had question marks coming out of college. With Harden it was whether he had the mindset to be a great NBA player (other options were Tyreke Evans or Steph Curry - they wouldn't have gone Rubio with Westbrook already there), and with Westbrook it was whether the production would ever match the talent. It's easy with hindsight to say that any GM would have picked them, but really Durant was the only one that "fell into their lap". You have to give some credit to Presti on the other two - just remember, 60% of GM's with picks before them thought Hasheem Thabeet, OJ Mayo and Michael Beasley were better players.

[Warhammer]

Thabeet was never expected to be good here. Most Grizz fans were ticked to have that pick as we knew he was never going to pan out. The problem was if you have a guy with his size you almost have to take him because if he pans out he's going to be a beast. That said, Thabeet had so many red flags coming out we should have stayed far away from him.

[Chief Rum]

From memory Harden was picked around where he was expected, but Westbrook was certainly not a sure thing. Westbrook and Holiday are good examples as to why elite PGs should seemingly not attend UCLA...

Okay, if you're talking about not getting to be in a system where their offensive skills stand iut, I hear ya, but otherwise, you're nuts. UCLA is what made Westbrook Westbrook, and also the system that developed Collison, Farmar and Afflalo. Holiday was only there a year, so he probably took a little less out of the experience, but seriously, elite PGs should be running to UCLA with what they have been doing for the position of late.

[Groundhog]

Kyrie Irving and Varejao were amazing - Varejao with 9 pts 23 rebounds and 9 amazing assists, and Dion Waiters pretty impressive tonight as the Cavs took down the Wizards. Byron Scott nearly lost them this game by playing that 2nd unit altogether for large stretches, especially the first 4 minutes of the 4th Q. They just aren't good enough for that, need to be sprinkled in with the starters.

[stevew]

We still have like 3 mainstream rotation players plus Irving and Verejao. If Andy is still healthy in 35 games he needs to be split into young players. Andy to the Rockets for 2 PF and Royce White.

[MrBug708]

So nice to have a terrible FT shooting center again. 3-14?

[korme]

Yeah, the Cavs not dealing Andy for something is mind boggling. He sure could help a contender.

And, what in the fuck were the Lakers doing on offense? Motion offense, great, take the ball out of the best playmaking PG in decades' hands. Mike Brown, everybody!

Thanks to that, and the Heat absolutely being on fire I started my gambling season off 0-2 missing the Celtics +7 and Lakers -9

[Logan]

The Knicks - Nets game scheduled for tomorrow night has finally been cancelled.

[heybrad]

The excuse for Mike Brown last year was that he didn't have an entire training camp to implement his offense. I wonder what the excuse will be this year. I was baffled as I watched Nash bring the ball up court, pass it off to Artest and then go stand on the wing. Artest would stand there or dribble for 15 seconds and then hand it off to somebody for a last minute heave. If that's the plan why did they bother to get Nash?

I figured it would take some time for the new players to mesh and it's only been the preseason and 1 regular season game, but the Lakers look horrid so far.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Minnesota is too white......

http://thehoopdoctors.com/online2/2012/10/civil-rights-leaders-in-minnesota-claim-team-make-up-due-to-racial-bias/

[Logan]

According to Woj, Harden has signed the 5 year, $80 million deal with Houston.

[Desnudo]

He's assuming Kahn has a strategy

[sterlingice]

I would like to help the civil rights struggles of those poor Minnesotians by offering the opportunity to trade Kevin Love to Houston.

I'm sure other teams would similarly like to help them out with their Ricky Rubio problem


SI

[JeeberD]

I would like to help the civil rights struggles of those poor Minnesotians by offering the opportunity to trade Kevin Love to Houston.

SI

I like how you think!

[stevew]

The excuse for Mike Brown last year was that he didn't have an entire training camp to implement his offense. I wonder what the excuse will be this year. I was baffled as I watched Nash bring the ball up court, pass it off to Artest and then go stand on the wing. Artest would stand there or dribble for 15 seconds and then hand it off to somebody for a last minute heave. If that's the plan why did they bother to get Nash?

I figured it would take some time for the new players to mesh and it's only been the preseason and 1 regular season game, but the Lakers look horrid so far.

Mike Brown doesn't have an offense. It's people standing around and shooting near the clock. And transition.

[sterlingice]

I like how you think!

I'm just trying to be civic minded! (and finish the Rockets rebuild in just under a week's time)

SI

[stevew]

Yeah, the Cavs not dealing Andy for something is mind boggling. He sure could help a contender.

And, what in the fuck were the Lakers doing on offense? Motion offense, great, take the ball out of the best playmaking PG in decades' hands. Mike Brown, everybody!

Thanks to that, and the Heat absolutely being on fire I started my gambling season off 0-2 missing the Celtics +7 and Lakers -9

I think the thing is that everyone recognizes that he will get hurt and miss large chunks of the season. The Cavs probably also recognize that they are a much better team when he is on the floor and they are attempting to put forth a decent product for the fans.

[korme]

But could you imagine if they traded Varejao and were terribly terrible again and got a Nerlens Noel? Now THATS a promising team!

[Groundhog]

I think the thing is that everyone recognizes that he will get hurt and miss large chunks of the season. The Cavs probably also recognize that they are a much better team when he is on the floor and they are attempting to put forth a decent product for the fans.

Yes on both cases. Watching the game yesterday, I'd actually forgotten how much of an impact he can have on a game barely taking any shots. Who is the last big that could do that? We're talking more than just Rodman-like rebounding too, it's his passing, defensive hustle, etc.

[stevew]

Why'd we have a lockout? I thought the owners were poor and didn't want to keep overpaying guys

Looking at this batch of extensions-
Dermar Derozan-4/40, ty lawson 4/48, ibaka 4/48, curry 4/44, Harden 5/80....it just seems like the more things change, the more they stay the same.

[stevew]

But could you imagine if they traded Varejao and were terribly terrible again and got a Nerlens Noel? Now THATS a promising team!

2 years of being fucking horrible is bad enough. If they keep tanking they may as well move the team. I'm about done as it is, i hate the long rebuild.

[Young Drachma]

Why'd we have a lockout? I thought the owners were poor and didn't want to keep overpaying guys

Looking at this batch of extensions-
Dermar Derozan-4/40, ty lawson 4/48, ibaka 4/48, curry 4/44, Harden 5/80....it just seems like the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Under the old system, guys like Curry might have gotten a max deal and Harden too. Those seem like bargain deals.

[Groundhog]

Harden looking pretty spectacular right now (...against the Pistons...), mostly.

[sterlingice]

Harden finishes with 37 points on 14 for 25, 12 assists, and 6 boards. Wow

I'm irrationally giddy

SI

[Groundhog]

Harden finishes with 37 points on 14 for 25, 12 assists, and 6 boards. Wow

I'm irrationally giddy

SI

The best Rockets play was pretty much:

1) Give ball to Harden
2) ???
3) basket!

If he wasn't knocking down a shot he was making some pretty spectacular passes to open guys, both around the basket and outside.

[sterlingice]

If only I could have seen it. But, alas, cable dispute so the game was not on here :mad:

Hard to work in a new guy a couple of days after you get him. And it's going to be ugly against a good team- tons of turnovers tonight. But some of that will smooth itself out

SI

[Danny]

Thunder were stupid, they should have payed harden

[RainMaker]

Taj Gibson agrees to 4 year, $38m extension.

[Matthean]

How about them Lakers? :D

[bhlloy]

It's spectacular how bad a coach Mike Brown is. Just WTF how does this guy coach a team in the NBA, let alone the most talented team in the league

[stevew]

My disdain of Mike Brown is well documented on these boards. he needs to be punched in the fat fucking face all the time. He's like the romeo crennel of basketball.

[Groundhog]

The Lakers look completely lost. Today it was on defense, yesterday it was on both ends.

[Groundhog]

Thunder were stupid, they should have payed harden

Don't want to get too excited after one solid performance by Harden, but I wonder.... Would the Thunder perhaps have been better served keeping Harden, and losing Westbrook instead? Either get a starting PG (Lowry?) in a trade or run with Maynor. I know that super PGs are pretty much all the rage right now, but what was the last championship team to have one? Rondo wasn't at that stage yet with Boston, so I guess Tony Parker maybe? Considering the amount of times Westbrook's non-passing has become an 'issue' - in the press if not the locker room - maybe the twin-scoring wings would have been the way for the Thunder to go.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

i've probably wasted too many brain cells thinking about it but i can't get over how dumb it seems (harden trade)

if the heat are the team you need to beat, and the heat beat you by going small with bosh playing a 'wide 5' then... wtf? why do you need perkins?

[MrBug708]

Oh Mike Brown..

[sterlingice]

The Lakers look completely lost. Today it was on defense, yesterday it was on both ends.

50% improvement!

SI

[Chief Rum]

Clippers won an exciting game at home over their playoff opponent last year, the Grizzlies.

It was a solid win over a good team, the kind you expect to get at home if you're a good team expected to win.

I won't say it went all that smooth. Crawford went off, scored 29 off the bench, so this was one of those games he shot the Clips to a win. But everyone knows he will shoot you out as soon as shoot you in.

DJ had 9 turnovers--9!!! How does a center turn the ball over nine times? My fantasy team wants to know.

[korme]

Harden's press conference really gave more light to the fact that he didn't like being 3rd banana that much. I think he's ready to put up some serious numbers. Good for him

[korme]

2 years of being fucking horrible is bad enough. If they keep tanking they may as well move the team. I'm about done as it is, i hate the long rebuild.

It's better to be extremely crappy than halfway decent though. Yeah, garbage teams are shitty but would you rather go from Sonics-bad to Thunder or just be the Hawks every year?

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

even w/ a lottery pick you need the stars to align. there are more weak classes than strong ones

[spleen1015]

Pacers.

Undefeated.

[sterlingice]

It's better to be extremely crappy than halfway decent though. Yeah, garbage teams are shitty but would you rather go from Sonics-bad to Thunder or just be the Hawks every year?

Hello, Houston the last 3 years: 14th pick and #9 seed!

SI

[miami_fan]

i've probably wasted too many brain cells thinking about it but i can't get over how dumb it seems (harden trade)

if the heat are the team you need to beat, and the heat beat you by going small with bosh playing a 'wide 5' then... wtf? why do you need perkins?

The thinking would be that you have to get out of the West and that means dealing with Howard, the Gasols, etc.

I think the simple explanation is CBA that was signed last year does not allow for this type of team to be built with big contracts. so choices will have to be made.

[stevew]

It's better to be extremely crappy than halfway decent though. Yeah, garbage teams are shitty but would you rather go from Sonics-bad to Thunder or just be the Hawks every year?

That type of luck in a rebuild doesn't usually happen. The Cavs only earned the #4 pick the last 2 years and were just lucky that the Clippers pick hit a 1 outer to win the lotto. And we still have basically nothing to show for 2 years of painful basketball.

[Logan]

That type of luck in a rebuild doesn't usually happen. The Cavs only earned the #4 pick the last 2 years and were just lucky that the Clippers pick hit a 1 outer to win the lotto. And we still have basically nothing to show for 2 years of painful basketball.

Could be looking a little better if they didn't draft Thompson and Waiters with those #4 picks, no?

[stevew]

I think they drafted the wrong guys as well, but it's too soon to tell if anyone drafted after pick 4 will be anything substantially better than what they have. And even if it's a better player, it does not appear that anyone drafted after Thompson at #4 is going to be a bonafide stud player who will make multiple all star games. At least as of now.

I hate the Cavs front office btw.

[Logan]

I thought that kid Toronto drafted and stashed with the next pick was supposed to be pretty impressive.

[stevew]

Even if Valanciunas is the 3rd best center in the league, in a league where big men don't really matter, it would still take years to build a team through the draft without accumulating top 20 free agents.

I think even if Kyrie is like the 20th best player in the league and Val- becomes like the 30th best player in the league, the deck is so stacked against you ever winning anything.

[whomario]

i think this season will be all sorts of fun :)

Very surprised the Thunder went with Thabeet in their rotation over Perry Jones, basically deciding against small ball for the time being. (Thabeet actually looked decent and has in the preseason. Once you look besides the bust label, i think he could really be an asset still)
Kevin Martin had a really good game as well, same with Durant.

For the spurs, Diaw was really good (the guys feel for the game is just a sight to behold)

Nice playcall and great game winner by Parker at the end there :)



- On the Harde trade : Sth that hasn´t been said (i think) is that Lin will also profit from playing with Harden imo, very tough for defenses to gameplan for 2 guys with that mix of scoring and passing ability.
I actually see the Thunder´s point about not needing 3 perimeter stars, the problem is that now they lost their one guy that could break down a defense and have the passing ability to make the smart play. Westbrook is great for putting the pressure on teams, but i wouldn´t trust him as the only pick and roll threar (Durant has come a ways in that regard, but at the end of the day he is a 6´10 guy with slightly above average but definitely not elite or even very good passing and limited in certain ways)

The Rockets now have to try to spread playing time around up front to showcase them and then try to get sth in return for some of their gazilion PFs. Harden, Lin, Asik isn´t a half bad core to have.


other musings:


- Joakim Noah was absolute amazing. Anybody seen that game ? He ran circles around Cousins and was a beat on defense as well, the guy was basically everywhere.

- Anthony Davis had a good line, but also had a lot of very basic plays he screwed up on both ends. Not very patient on offense or defense. Greivis Vazquez on the other hand impressed me.

- Lillard is really good. Could be a more physichal (and less often injured) version of Steph Curry. Leonard also looked good, very fundamentally sound. Likely won´t put up huge numbers, but know how to play on both ends.

[korme]

I hope everyone has NBAtv and has had the pleasure of watching Open Court

[spleen1015]

I hope everyone has NBAtv and has had the pleasure of watching Open Court

I watched it the other night. It was pretty fun to watch.

[whomario]

What is it ?

some intriguing stats (which i hadn´t had time to check, but the guy who posted them is very trustworthy when it comes to theese numbers) :

Harden with Durant: 13.7/4.7/3.2 je 36 min bei 60.3 TS%
Harden without Durant: 26.7/4.8/4.8 je 36 min bei 65.1 TS%

accumulated over the last 2 seasons.

That´s confirming the visual impression i had, there´s a reason why there´s this much outrage over a 6th man being traded away.

Harden imo can become a 38 Minute version of Manu with maybe even better shooting numbers (but slightly worse defense) and a 38 minute version of Manu would have been pretty much up there with the best perimeter players in the league.

[korme]

Three episodes so far this season, multitude of topics discussed between Shaq, Chuck, Kenny, Kerr, Reggie Miller, Steve Smith, CWebb, hosted by Ernie.

It's quite entertaining.


To your point about Harden whomario, do you think Harden could compete with Durant for league lead in PPG?

[whomario]

Everything´s possible, although i don´t think it´s likely as there´s bound to be some growin pains for him in the new role. But he´ll certainly get the shots and Houston has a couple good passers on the roster as well (Lin can break down a defense, Parsons can create mismatches and is an excellent passer) so he won´t have to create everything for himself.

If i had to bet on it i´d say 24 PPG ;)

neat gif, reason 8921 why Tim Duncan game film should be mandatory viewing for every big man :

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1671935/duncanno.gif

[sterlingice]

We're not going to see one like Tim Duncan for a while. He's a little like the Greg Maddux of the NBA: good raw physical talent but also so fundamentally strong and smart.

SI

[sterlingice]

Harden with 45 pts and 7 boards, Lin with 21 pts/10 reb/7 assist, Omer Asik with 19 boards... and 0 points. Houston 2-0 now with a win in Atlanta.

SI

[Young Drachma]

Damn, Harden is going OFF.

[JPhillips]

But just wait until OKC gets a late lottery pick.

[stevew]

They get Toronto's pick.

[stevew]

Really happy that The Basketball Jones is back on Grantland

[MrBug708]

Hmmm..

[stevew]

I'll be wildly bold here. Lakers are not as bad as their start indicates. James Harden is not as good as his start.

Sign me up TNT!!! I'm as deep as Chris Broussard!

[stevew]

dola-
Would be hilarious if Dwight has a miserable year in LA and bolts this summer.

[stevew]

trola-
The Thunder need to hire the Red Sox smear campaign guys and get out in front of this Harden story. Start smearing him, or this could destroy the Thunder season.

[Desnudo]

I'll be wildly bold here. Lakers are not as bad as their start indicates. James Harden is not as good as his start.

Sign me up TNT!!! I'm as deep as Chris Broussard!

What if Harden is as good as his start? He just needed Jeremy Lin as his muse.

[sterlingice]

I'll be wildly bold here. Lakers are not as bad as their start indicates. James Harden is not as good as his start.

Sign me up TNT!!! I'm as deep as Chris Broussard!

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Slow down there, Einstein

SI

[stevew]

What if Harden is as good as his start? He just needed Jeremy Lin as his muse.

He's clearly the George Harrison of the group, not the John Lenon.

[Desnudo]

Or maybe Durant was his Mark David Chapman

[whomario]

As for the Lakers, the preseason should have set up big red warning lights for the people in charge. I know, i know ... "It´s only preseason", but loosing is never helpfull and the Lakers lost all 8 preseason games (that´s now 11 losses in a row, no matter the setting such a streak takes it´s toll). At some point they´ll have to simplify things on both ends and work stuff in bit for bit rather than all at once.

Besides that, i´m dumbfounded how anyone would figure a Princeton offense as the way to go with Nash and Howard as you aditions...

[samifan24]

The Nets' new mascot is just weird. The Brooklyn Knight. I'll post video once it becomes available.

[Cap Ologist]

Princeton offenses don't work. Just look at the Cowboys.

[Groundhog]

Besides that, i´m dumbfounded how anyone would figure a Princeton offense as the way to go with Nash and Howard as you aditions...

Yah, IMO they need just about the least elaborate playbook outside of Miami. Princeton is a good option if you aren't as individually skilled as your opponents because it works to get your guys shots, but when you have some of the best passers, creators, and finishers in the league... well... I don't see the point. It's basically the "zone defense" of offenses.

Have the ball in Nash or Kobe's hands, run a p'n'r with Howard/Gasol, and score points.

The defense is a worry though. I see no reason why this unit should be so bad on that end of the court, outside of lack of confidence thanks to how poorly they are scoring it.

[Neon_Chaos]

Lakers just need to cut down on turnovers by 10, and they are unstoppable.

[korme]

Just realized I have a free preview of League Pass... this might be worth the money

[Groundhog]

Lakers just need to cut down on turnovers by 10, and they are unstoppable.

...or play the Pistons every game. :D

Westbrook with another stinker as the Thunder lose at home to a Josh Smith-less Hawks. Youch. Durant 2 assists off a triple-double (...and 4 turnovers off a quad...). Martin taking up the scoring role of Harden off the bench, but doesn't bring any of the other stuff Harden did.

[Groundhog]

Johnny Flynn just signed with an Aussie pro team... Highest profile player we've had since Todd Fuller! :D

[Desnudo]

Just realized I have a free preview of League Pass... this might be worth the money

NBA League Pass Broadband Is Shit, And You Should Not Buy It (http://deadspin.com/5956559/nba-league-pass-broadband-is-shit-and-you-should-not-buy-it)

[Groundhog]

I personally think it's fantastic, but that's because, outside of NBA.tv, there is no way to catch more than 2 or 3 games a week over here, nearly all containing either Miami or Lakers.

[stevew]

Just realized I have a free preview of League Pass... this might be worth the money

On DirecTV? I was checking it out, but I work evenings and I don't get home early enough to catch all of the west coast games.

[sterlingice]

I personally think it's fantastic, but that's because, outside of NBA.tv, there is no way to catch more than 2 or 3 games a week over here, nearly all containing either Miami or Lakers.

I have no way of watching Rockets games right now since Comcast is in a pissing match with every other Houston cable company to try and gouge them for Comcast Sports: Houston.

The only option would be to, ahem, stream it online and that's not a good answer

SI

[molson]

Johnny Flynn just signed with an Aussie pro team... Highest profile player we've had since Todd Fuller! :D

Shit, what the hell happened to him?

[Groundhog]

Shit, what the hell happened to him?

Well injuries have pretty much killed his NBA career at this point, I Imagine he's using our league to get himself in shape for a big contract in China or Europe - most likely China.

We don't pay nearly as well as China or Europe (I'm guessing he'll get around $250K on the books here, maybe twice that with some common-yet-illegal sponsorship boosting) but the lifestyle down here is definitely better than most Euro leagues, and with generally just one game per week and travel between cities by plane, it's an easier transition for an NBA player than being crowded into the back of a team bus travelling 10 hours to a city you can't pronounce.

[stevew]

Oh man....we're getting tough on flopping already

Glad to see them going after well known players, not.
J.J. Barea and Donald Sloan were the first players to receive a warning for violating the NBA's new flopping rule.

Both players will receive a $5,000 fine for their next flopping violation.

[Groundhog]

lol @ these. Not saying they weren't exaggerated, but these hardly seem like the worst flops in the world. Fredette pushed off with his arm and I think it was more the hip-to-hip contact with Hinrich that pushed Sloan and Hinrich over:

Barea Receives Flopping Warning | NBA.com (http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2012/11/05/dmo-barea-play-and-replay.nba)
Sloan Receives Flopping Warning | NBA.com (http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2012/11/05/dmo-sloan-play.nba)

[molson]

Well injuries have pretty much killed his NBA career at this point, I Imagine he's using our league to get himself in shape for a big contract in China or Europe - most likely China.

We don't pay nearly as well as China or Europe (I'm guessing he'll get around $250K on the books here, maybe twice that with some common-yet-illegal sponsorship boosting) but the lifestyle down here is definitely better than most Euro leagues, and with generally just one game per week and travel between cities by plane, it's an easier transition for an NBA player than being crowded into the back of a team bus travelling 10 hours to a city you can't pronounce.

I watched most of his games at Syracuse but don't follow the NBA very closely so I was surprised to see was already out of the league. Ya, I can see the appeal of playing in Australia, I think another Syracuse guy, Eric Devendorf, played in that league after his New Zealand team cut him for getting in a bar fight or something.

[sovereignstar v2]

Shit, what the hell happened to him?

He was drafted by the Timberwolves.

[Groundhog]

I watched most of his games at Syracuse but don't follow the NBA very closely so I was surprised to see was already out of the league. Ya, I can see the appeal of playing in Australia, I think another Syracuse guy, Eric Devendorf, played in that league after his New Zealand team cut him for getting in a bar fight or something.

Yeah Devendorf was here for a season (or part of a season...) with the same team actually. Unfortunately for him it was as part of the most misguided attempts at building a team in our league history, as they had Devendorf and a very undersized PG (5'8) teamed with 3 immobile PF/Cs in the starting 5. Devendorf could play, but he had no chance with that horrendous squad... and lots of losses generally leads to your imports getting released, which is what happened to him.

[Groundhog]

Impressive win by the Cavs over the Clippers today. Turnovers killed the Clips, but Irving came up big in the final minutes after a rough game, and Waiters just could not miss, 7/11 from 3pt. Good to see the bench contribute anything as well, with Zeller having a nice night, and Miles remembering how to score the ball.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

yep, that's waiters. if he's feeling it he's unguardable.

the timberwolves are shockingly white.

[BishopMVP]

the timberwolves are shockingly white.Civil rights leaders question Timberwolves racial makeup (http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon/2012/10/29/civil-rights-minnesota-timberwolves-white-players-racial-makeup/1666061/)

[Chief Rum]

Impressive win by the Cavs over the Clippers today. Turnovers killed the Clips, but Irving came up big in the final minutes after a rough game, and Waiters just could not miss, 7/11 from 3pt. Good to see the bench contribute anything as well, with Zeller having a nice night, and Miles remembering how to score the ball.

And as a counterpoint a disturbing loss for the Clippers. Too many jump shots on offense, not enough ball movement. And on defense, although you figure Irving will get his, and Waiters was just unconscious, it's criminal to let Varejao just uncontested shots from 15 feet out or to let Zeller have a big game against you.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

Civil rights leaders question Timberwolves racial makeup (http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon/2012/10/29/civil-rights-minnesota-timberwolves-white-players-racial-makeup/1666061/)
it'd be easy to dismiss if it wasn't minnesota. imagine some marketing email leaking --white players sell more jerseys in our demo--

[BishopMVP]

it'd be easy to dismiss if it wasn't minnesota. imagine some marketing email leaking --white players sell more jerseys in our demo--It would be harder for me to dismiss if the articles and quotes didn't try to use Andrei Kirilenko, Nikola Pekovic, Ricky Rubio, and of course Jose Juan Barea as evidence (Kevin Love seems to get a pass). If someone is arguing that they're getting guys like Chase Budinger and Greg Stiemsma over equally or marginally more talented players to fill out the end of their bench, I have no room to throw stones as a fan of a team who paid Brian Scalabrine to be an oversized mascot, but going after 3 legitimate starters (2 on cheap contracts) and a Puerto Rican seems to be pushing it.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

i was just joshin as the kids say

maybe kahn's discovered some market inefficiency

[Groundhog]

And as a counterpoint a disturbing loss for the Clippers. Too many jump shots on offense, not enough ball movement. And on defense, although you figure Irving will get his, and Waiters was just unconscious, it's criminal to let Varejao just uncontested shots from 15 feet out or to let Zeller have a big game against you.

I think the scouting report on Varejao has been to give him that shot over playing up on him and letting him drive to the basket or giving him more space to pass to cutters near the hoop, but he's been knocking those down so far this season at a pretty good clip. Makes him a tough guard.

I don't know if Zeller will ever be bulky enough to amount to much, but he is surprisingly good from one step inside the 3pt line. Hasn't shown a great deal else so far.

[stevew]

I kind of decided that I wasn't watching the Cavs as long as Boobie is still playing for them. I may have to break this promise. It's so awesome we spent all offseason not bothering to try to get better...I mean why would we want to even attempt to try if tanking is some utopia of awesomeness and we're guaranteed to get good picks/players.

[Groundhog]

I kind of decided that I wasn't watching the Cavs as long as Boobie is still playing for them. I may have to break this promise. It's so awesome we spent all offseason not bothering to try to get better...I mean why would we want to even attempt to try if tanking is some utopia of awesomeness and we're guaranteed to get good picks/players.

Boobie is still getting too many minutes but at least he is purely playing the role he is suited for - ie. shoot a 3 anytime he has some space. There is no alternative to Boobie unfortunately (outside of Donald Sloan who is a marginal NBA player at best), as we have stockpiled 11th and 12th-men level 'talents' at SF/PF at the expense of any guards.

I kinda think we might have been better off keeping the picks we traded for Zeller and picked up some depth, as this is looking like a strong draft as far as rotation players go.

Cavs are definitely more enjoyable to watch this year than the last couple though, even outside of just Irving. Waiters looks like he's always on the verge of doing something great, and Varejao is probably my favourite player in the league right now based on the number of awesome non-scoring plays he's had over the first handful of games.

[stevew]

Andy's def one of my favorite players of all time. I'll probably make it to a game or two this season if they can at least feign like we're going to be decent.

Also, I was thinking that we should try to acquire Tyreke Evans at some point this year if he's available. He can legitimately create offense. He'd be worth trying out for 20-30 games before he is eligible for restricted FA this offseason.

[Groundhog]

It would be harder for me to dismiss if the articles and quotes didn't try to use Andrei Kirilenko, Nikola Pekovic, Ricky Rubio, and of course Jose Juan Barea as evidence (Kevin Love seems to get a pass). If someone is arguing that they're getting guys like Chase Budinger and Greg Stiemsma over equally or marginally more talented players to fill out the end of their bench, I have no room to throw stones as a fan of a team who paid Brian Scalabrine to be an oversized mascot, but going after 3 legitimate starters (2 on cheap contracts) and a Puerto Rican seems to be pushing it.

I have no insight into how the TWolves work, but I've just figured they've gone the same sort of path as Toronto. They aren't going to be able to attract big name FAs, so they've put together a group of guys that are perhaps a little underrated and have a good chance of sticking around if they perform well, rather than be lured away to bigger markets. The fact that these guys happen to be white(ish)... well, that's probably why they are underrated in the first place.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Knickerbockers look good so far this preseason.

[whomario]

Dallas (4-1) and Minny (3-1) so far doing a good job staying afloat without their star players. OJ Mayo has been terrific so

marc gasol has 23 assists and 4 TOs through the first 4 games

[spleen1015]

With Granger out for 3 months, the Pacers are in big trouble. I don't think they'll make the playoffs because he'll end up being out longer than that.

[Chief Rum]

3-0 versus playoff teams. 0-2 versus lottery teams.

Your Los Angeles Clippers, ladies and gentlemen.

[Groundhog]

With Granger out for 3 months, the Pacers are in big trouble. I don't think they'll make the playoffs because he'll end up being out longer than that.

...and my NBA Fantasy Team nightmare continues... :(

[stevew]

Varejao hurt already? hopefully he's back soon.

[Groundhog]

Varejao hurt already? hopefully he's back soon.

Yeah doesn't sound like it's anything major. Zeller and Varejao being down at the same time gives us probably the worst big guy rotation in the universe.

[Radii]

Kevin Garnett Gave A Weird, Profane Postgame Screed On Team Chemistry And Comcast (http://deadspin.com/5958740/kevin-garnett-gave-a-weird-profane-postgame-screed-on-team-chemistry-and-comcast)


You can't speed chemistry up. The more you practice, the more you get familiar with each other. There's no hit the fast forward button here. You got Comcast. Some shows you can't fast forward through, you got to let it go through and watch the silly-ass commercials and be pissed, right? This is what this is. Did I just take a shot at Comcast? Fuck it, I did. So what. I'm a Direct-TV guy anyway. Anyway look, this is what this. I'm not helping myself am I? Fuck it, anyway that's what's this is.

fucking comcast!

[Logan]

Lakers fired Mike Brown.

[bulletsponge]

it would be hilarious if they hire stan van gundy

[heybrad]

So is Phil coming back?

[bulletsponge]

im also convinced the only thing interesting about the nba regular season is the off the court drama

[Logan]

D'Antoni?

[MrBug708]

D'Antoni?

There was a small rumor

[molson]

Geez, it's 5 regular season NBA games. Kobe or somebody must have wanted him gone for a while, or there must be someone they really, really want to bring in, and this is the excuse to do it.

[stevew]

Lakers fired Mike Brown.

awesome.

[stevew]

Geez, it's 5 regular season NBA games. Kobe or somebody must have wanted him gone for a while, or there must be someone they really, really want to bring in, and this is the excuse to do it.

That and the fact that he's a fucking horrible coach.

[whomario]

Imo, whoever new takes over will (and should) simply let the players sort it out. Without training camp, you can´t do much else really.

And to be honest, D´Antoni makes sense.

[Fidatelo]

That and the fact that he's a fucking horrible coach.

This.

[bhlloy]

You either need a Spoelstra who will just stay out of the way and be a figurehead or say f it and let Kobe and Nash be player coaches. D'Antoni might work for Nash and Howard but I think he'd butt heads with Kobe

[Logan]

D'Antoni might work for Nash and Howard but I think he'd butt heads with Kobe

But it worked so well with Melo...

[heybrad]

D'Antoni might work for Nash and Howard but I think he'd butt heads with Kobe
Supposedly Kobe loved him during his Team USA time.

[bhlloy]

Maybe, but an NBA season is a long time. I think his offense would naturally revolve around Nash and Howard and I don't know how well that would go over.

[miami_fan]

Geez, it's 5 regular season NBA games. Kobe or somebody must have wanted him gone for a while, or there must be someone they really, really want to bring in, and this is the excuse to do it.

I would prefer the Dwight Howard is a coach killer narrative. :popcorn:

As far as bringing in D'Antoni, is this his type of roster? His teams usually have three point shooters and/or athletes and the Lakers don't necessarily have an abundance of either. His teams also don't excel defensively.

[korme]

There was an argument on Open Court about greatest coach ever- and of course Phil was brought up. Reggie Miller made the obvious argument, if he didn't have Jordan or Kobe would he have won those titles?

Well on the opposite side of that, Mike Brown has had Lebron and Kobe and has nothing to show for it. Bad coach.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

my biggest coaching pet peeve. system over pieces.

[Danny]

But it worked so well with Melo...

Kobe is 1 million times the winner that Melo is. Kobe would likely be fine with Dantoni.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Dantoni makes sense to me. Then we can see the Lakers lose in the first round by an average score of 138-120

[miami_fan]

There was an argument on Open Court about greatest coach ever- and of course Phil was brought up. Reggie Miller made the obvious argument, if he didn't have Jordan or Kobe would he have won those titles?

Well on the opposite side of that, Mike Brown has had Lebron and Kobe and has nothing to show for it. Bad coach.

Hmmm, D'Antoni did not do that much with the Suns that was led by a two time MVP(snicker) and a star laden Knicks team. I am not sure he is the answer.

[miami_fan]

But yes, Mike Brown is a horrible coach.

[miami_fan]

The Lakers fired Mike Brown just five games into their 82-game regular season after a 1-4 start. Just how fast of a firing was it based on percentage of the season played compared to other sports? Here's a look:

• NFL coach getting fired before the end of the 1st game (with 1:28 left, to be precise)
• MLB manager getting fired in the 8th inning of the 10th game
• College football coach getting fired before the end of the 3rd quarter in the 1st game (assuming a 12-game season)
• College basketball coach getting fired before the 2nd game ends (assuming a 30-game schedule)
• Premier League manager getting fired in the 1st half of the 3rd game (38-game schedule)

I find this funny

[kingfc22]

He was a poor hire from the start as they should have given the job to Shaw once Phil "retired".

[Neon_Chaos]

D'antoni makes sense. Kobe has high regard for him and idolized him when he grew up in Italy watching him play ball.

[miami_fan]

So what is the price for Phil to come back? 15 mil? 17 mil?

[MrBug708]

Probably 15

[stevew]

The price is the price. Just freaking pay it.

[whomario]

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/KqezbZ6Op3s" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

:popcorn:

Andrei Kirilenko is awesome :)

Little surprised by Peks slow start (clearly having trouble to adjust to the increased attention he´s getting)and no one is really scoring consistently, but as a team they get it done.

Shved has looked really looked really good aside from the first game, kid is just a natural fit for the nba game much like Rubio was. Hasn´t found his shot yet, but his passing and his slashing game are fun.

And Kirilenko is just impressive as hell if you watch games whole instead of highlights, the guy does so many little things on both ends.

And the pass for tonights game winner was awesome, there´s not many guys who find a cutter like that in that situation. Of course, Gerald Green also brain farted there, but still :)

sucks that Roy had to leave the game, hope soreness is all there is to it :(

[Matthean]

I think I would be more interested in seeing Mike D'Antoni get the job. He would be cheaper and a lot less maintenance.

[Desnudo]

The price is the price. Just freaking pay it.

The team consists of a psychopath, sociopath, two year old, a high strung Spaniard, Steve Nash, and a bunch of cardboard cut-outs. Why would he come back for any amount? He clearly doesn't need the money.

I think Bobby Valentine is available.

[MrBug708]

The same reason why Michael Jordan had to play baseball. The same reason why Kobe won't sit out games. They don't know how to say no

[miami_fan]

Kevin McHale takes leave of absence from Houston Rockets - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8616308/kevin-mchale-takes-leave-absence-houston-rockets)

HOUSTON -- Houston Rockets coach Kevin McHale has taken a leave of absence to deal with a family matter.

The team announced the move on Saturday and says assistant coach Kelvin Sampson will be in charge while McHale is out.

There is no timetable for the return of the second-year coach and Hall of Fame player.

Rockets general manager Daryl Morey said: "Kevin is a devoted family man who is needed back home in Minnesota at the moment. The Rockets organization will keep Kevin and his family in our thoughts and prayers during this difficult time."

He didn't provide any further details on the specifics of the situation.

I hope for the best for the McHale family. On a much lighter note, Kelvin Sampson is actually a head coach in the NBA.

[Danny]

The team consists of a psychopath, sociopath, two year old, a high strung Spaniard, Steve Nash, and a bunch of cardboard cut-outs. Why would he come back for any amount? He clearly doesn't need the money.

I think Bobby Valentine is available.

Phil has a big ego. A chance to further idolize himself in the minds of many by winning more titles is surely tempting. The Lakers have more talent than any team in the league.

[cuervo72]

I find this funny

1988 Baltimore Orioles season - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_Baltimore_Orioles_season)

[cuervo72]

Re: Phil; man is this act getting tiring. He has to retire every so often just to remind everyone how great he is and so they can come crawling, begging for him to come back.

[Ajaxab]

Weird situation that followed the Spurs-Kings on Friday night:

hxxp://deadspin.com/5959649/awesome-demarcus-cousins-suspended-two-games-for-trash+talking-terrible-sean-elliott

I was watching the Spurs feed and Spurs' color guy, Sean Elliot was being the typical homer. In the 4th quarter, Cousins beat Duncan and then starting talking to the Spurs bench. Elliot reported what Cousins said on air saying that Demarcus had taunted the bench with, "I'm going to beat his [butt]." Duncan then spent the next several plays torching Cousins. While Duncan was torching Cousins, Elliot started going off on Cousins with the quotes from the article above only to have Cousins show up after the post-game show. Elliot's comments were dumb, but Cousins was still acting like he was 13. Elliot has been saying these kinds of things for years, but to have a player come after him for it has to be a first.

[TroyF]

Weird situation that followed the Spurs-Kings on Friday night:

hxxp://deadspin.com/5959649/awesome-demarcus-cousins-suspended-two-games-for-trash+talking-terrible-sean-elliott

I was watching the Spurs feed and Spurs' color guy, Sean Elliot was being the typical homer. In the 4th quarter, Cousins beat Duncan and then starting talking to the Spurs bench. Elliot reported what Cousins said on air saying that Demarcus had taunted the bench with, "I'm going to beat his [butt]." Duncan then spent the next several plays torching Cousins. While Duncan was torching Cousins, Elliot started going off on Cousins with the quotes from the article above only to have Cousins show up after the post-game show. Elliot's comments were dumb, but Cousins was still acting like he was 13. Elliot has been saying these kinds of things for years, but to have a player come after him for it has to be a first.

I used to think the Nuggets had the biggest homer announcers of all time. Scott Hastings complains about the refs more than I do, which isn't an easy thing. Then I watched one of the free games on nba league pass last year and heard Eliott. I was shocked at how bad he was. This guy puts Hawk Harrelson and any other homer announcer to shame.

----------------------

As for Phil, I love how he leaves right when everyone in the world can see the Lakers are on their way to imploding. Then decides to come back right when it looks like they are setup for another title run. Like Alex Ferguson at ManU, now I get to listen to a coach who gets 98% of all the calls bitch about not getting the other 2%. If The Finals ends up being Lakers/Heat, I will cheer for a players strike to wipe out the finals.

[Desnudo]

Phil has a big ego. A chance to further idolize himself in the minds of many by winning more titles is surely tempting. The Lakers have more talent than any team in the league.

Their first five are. Their bench is horrendous.

[whomario]

Elliot's comments were dumb, but Cousins was still acting like he was 13. Elliot has been saying these kinds of things for years, but to have a player come after him for it has to be a first.

How so ? Cousins is working real hard to surpass Javale McGee at the top on the "really talented players that leave their brain in the locker room" list, gotta give him his props, no ?
A couple weeks ago against the Timberwolves even the Kings announcers were killing him most of the game, at one point he committed (yet another) goal tending penalty right when they were talking about this being the time in the game he has to get his head in the game and basically their reaction was hilarious.

Also, it´s absolutely true that Duncan made it a point to shut him up :)

[Neon_Chaos]

Lakers hire Mike D'Antoni as next coach - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--lakers-hire-mike-d-antoni-as-next-coach-12101909.html)

[Matthean]

Lakers hire Mike D'Antoni as next coach - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--lakers-hire-mike-d-antoni-as-next-coach-12101909.html)

ESPN was saying it was due to the triangle offense and it would take longer for the team to learn, but to me it's less drama and less pay.

[Desnudo]

Relaxed travel schedule. was he only going to coach home games? If Kobe says he loves him, I give him 10 games.

[miami_fan]

ESPN was saying it was due to the triangle offense and it would take longer for the team to learn, but to me it's less drama and less pay.

If the triangle was going to be the problem, then the Lakers should not have even called Phil. It is not like he is going to be running a new offense at this stage. Given the relationship that Phil had with Jim Buss in the past, I see this as Phil asking for a bit too much and Jim Buss saying hell no. I guess we will see what D'Antoni learned from his time in New York.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

yeah, who knows what machinations took place behind the scenes. from an entertainment standpoint i like d'antoni. but if i was a laker fan i'd be pissed. phil gives you the best chance to win a champ. triangle or not he's smart enough to make it work

[heybrad]

This is all just my own speculation, but we know the Buss family really doesn't like Phil and Jim Buss specifically hates Phil. I think the minute Phil asked for any type of organization control, that most likely ended their talks. I heard that Phil asked for either GM control or a piece of ownership, none of which the Buss family would have gone for.

I don't know what to think of D'Antoni. Hopefully this improves the offense and the players are veteran enough to put in the work on the defensive side (which i don't think D'Antoni helps at all).

[Chief Rum]

ESPN was saying it was due to the triangle offense and it would take longer for the team to learn, but to me it's less drama and less pay.

The Lakers live on drama and have money to burn.

This was about control.

[cuervo72]

Good on the Lakers.

[stevew]

Once Brooks fails to win this year, OKC should make Phil the godfather offer.

[DaddyTorgo]

Lakers hire Mike D'Antoni as next coach - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--lakers-hire-mike-d-antoni-as-next-coach-12101909.html)

Glad to hear this. Otherwise we'd be treated to even more media-fellatio of Phil as he unretired and then inevitably reretired.

[Young Drachma]

Phil Jackson releases statement:

6:57PM EST November 12. 2012 - Phil Jackson issued a statement regarding the Los Angeles Lakers coaching situation.

Saturday morning, Jim Buss, called to ask if he could come and visit. I did not solicit or ask for the opportunity, but I welcomed both he and Mitch Kupchak into my home to discuss the possibility of my return to the Lakers as the head coach.

We talked for over an hour and a half. No contractual terms were discussed and we concluded with a hand shake and an understanding that I would have until Monday (today) to come back to them with my decision. I did convey to them that I did have the confidence that I could do the job. I was awakened at midnight on Sunday by a phone call from Mitch Kupchak.

He told me that the Lakers had signed Mike D'Antoni to a 3-year agreement and that they felt he was the best coach for the team. The decision is of course theirs to make. I am gratified by the groundswell of support from the Laker Fans who endorsed my return and it is the principal reason why I considered the possibility.


Phil Jackson issues statement on Lakers coach position (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/lakers/2012/11/12/phil-jackson-issues-statement/1701043/)

[stevew]

Glad to hear this. Otherwise we'd be treated to even more media-fellatio of Phil as he unretired and then inevitably reretired.

I believe that 10 titles may actually warrant a dick sucking by the media. It's a way better achievement than Red Auerbach winning 9 titles when there was no free agency and only roughly 12 teams in the NBA.

[stevew]

Actually there were 8 teams for the first half of the streak, and only 12 teams during the final title run.

[Chief Rum]

Phil Jackson releases statement:



Phil Jackson issues statement on Lakers coach position (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/lakers/2012/11/12/phil-jackson-issues-statement/1701043/)

Surprised no comment on this. They gave Phil to 12:01 a.m. Monday. The very first minute of Monday. And then told him they had hired D'Antoni.

That's some oddball stuff right there.

[DaddyTorgo]

I believe that 10 titles may actually warrant a dick sucking by the media. It's a way better achievement than Red Auerbach winning 9 titles when there was no free agency and only roughly 12 teams in the NBA.

I wasn't arguing whether it was warranted or not...I was just saying it's tiresome to listen to.

Then again it's not like I spend any time watching ESPN anymore anyways, so I guess it wouldn't affect me.

And I'm not sure how much better then Red it was...considering the unparalled talents that Phil had in MJ and Kobe. Not saying the C's didn't have talent too, but it's not that clear of a difference.

[Groundhog]

I tend to think D'Antoni was the right choice over Phil, given his health etc. Probably the best choice for Phil too.

Drummond has an offensive and defensive awareness rating of about 12, but I'll admit that it appears I was wrong about him so far. He's showing far more ability than he did in college. If/when Monroe flees town he should be ready to step straight in.

[molson]

I wasn't arguing whether it was warranted or not...I was just saying it's tiresome to listen to.

Then again it's not like I spend any time watching ESPN anymore anyways, so I guess it wouldn't affect me.

And I'm not sure how much better then Red it was...considering the unparalled talents that Phil had in MJ and Kobe. Not saying the C's didn't have talent too, but it's not that clear of a difference.

You can probably make an Xs and Os argument for either guy, but Red Auerbach actually had to build his teams and continuously fleece other teams in trades, while Jackson picked his spots and joined teams that were pretty much impossible to lose with. His playoff success is very impressive though. And while there's more teams now, it doesn't really seem that way. There's a handful of high profile franchises and a supporting cast. The Celtics were garbage when Red showed up.

[stevew]

Twitter / Search - #nbapalate (https://twitter.com/search/realtime?q=%23nbapalate&src=hash)

[whomario]

Budinger out 3-4 months with a knee injury (so basically for the season ...), the crap keeps on piling up for the Wolves this year ...
Barea and Roy missed the game against the Mavs as well and Pekovic left with a sprained ankle.

Another "how did they win that ?" game. Kirilenko with 16/11 and amazing defense against pretty much everybody.

[heybrad]

Jackson picked his spots and joined teams that were pretty much impossible to lose with.
Doug Collins and Del Harris would disagree with this.