NFL Week 11 Thread - NFC Powerhouses Square off on MNF

[Sun Tzu]

You'd be hard pressed to find a better game this upcoming week than the Bears @ 49ers match-up. The game could take a decided different turn if either Cutler or Smith are ruled out due to their concussions.

[Honolulu_Blue]

You'd be hard pressed to find a better game this upcoming week than the Bears @ 49ers match-up. The game could take a decided different turn if either Cutler or Smith are ruled out due to their concussions.

If both Cutler and Smith are out there will be many better games, I reckon. Unless you like watching bad offenses play against very good defenses.

[Logan]

Don't get on him, Sun has been waiting to start this thread for weeks.

[Sun Tzu]

Don't get on him, Sun has been waiting to start this thread for weeks.

This.

[Sun Tzu]

Dola...

I don't know that I'd call SF a bad offense. They're 11th in the NFL in yards per game (1st in rushing), and 15th in points per game.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Don't get on him, Sun has been waiting to start this thread for weeks.

Oh. I'm sorry.

I agree, we are not likely to find a better game.

[jeff061]

Girlfriend bought me tickets to the Patriots game for my birthday :).

[Easy Mac]

Girlfriend bought me tickets to the Patriots game for my birthday :).

You misheard her. It's actually a screening of the 20th anniversary edition of Patriot Games.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Dola...

I don't know that I'd call SF a bad offense. They're 11th in the NFL in yards per game (1st in rushing), and 15th in points per game.

I did say if Smith wasn't playing. While I didn't watch the game, my impression was that the Kapernick-led offense wasn't all that great.

[stevew]

Byron Leftwich in primetime!

[Sun Tzu]

I did say if Smith wasn't playing. While I didn't watch the game, my impression was that the Kapernick-led offense wasn't all that great.

Ah, then I misread your post. You said "if Smith is out there will be..." which I read as "if Smith is out there, will be..."

My fault...kinda :)

[Logan]

I'm only 25% through this but it's shaping up to be a must read:

Watching a day of NFL games inside the RedZone studio - Grantland (http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8631131/watching-day-nfl-games-redzone-studio)

[stevew]

I didn't know there were multiple red zone channels.

[Sun Tzu]

Alex Smith has been cleared to play, and is participating in practice today. Good news for Niner fans.

[Desnudo]

What is the NFL criteria for concussion testing? Not visibly bleeding from an orifice?

[Sun Tzu]

What is the NFL criteria for concussion testing? Not visibly bleeding from an orifice?

I know Smith has to be cleared by the team doctor, a neurologist, and a second neurologist.

[cuervo72]

That was lame, Fins.

[larrymcg421]

Fins look like a bad high school team so far.

[RainMaker]

Far be it for me to question the offensive genius who can't put up 100 yards against the Bills, but why isn't Reggie Bush playing a little more?

[Julio Riddols]

I think Miami would have been better served by showcasing Matt Moore this season, then maybe working a trade and going with Tannehill. Surely the Browns or Jets or Cardinals would welcome the upgrade for a 3rd rounder or so.

[Sun Tzu]

Does Miami have an offensive line?

[stevew]

The jets are the shitty guy in your MP league.

Is 2013's Salary Cap Driving the Jets 2012 Decisions? (www.nyjetscap.com/2012_Articles/capconcerns.html)

Basically are holding out Tebow to avoid cap complications.

[Desnudo]

Even with Ben burger out, should the Ravens really be giving -3.5 with Flacco on the road when these games are always close?

[stevew]

Nick Foles is the QB of the (bleak and desolate) future.

[Lathum]

AJ Green is good at football

[korme]

AJ Green is incredible.

Want to take this moment to give a big shout out to IKEA, who called to tell me their delivery time range would be 1-5 PM, to which my response was, "So I can't go to a bar and watch the Bengals?"

[BillJasper]

AJ Green is good at football

Justin Blackmon is not.

[Lathum]

Justin Blackmon is not.

yep

[SirFozzie]

Wow, three INT's in the first 12:20 for Matty Ice

[korme]

Matty Ice vs. Nick Foles in my fantasy league, at the end of 1st Q Foles had 0 pts and Ryan had -5.

[cougarfreak]

Jesus Christ, the Chiefs look like a reincarnation of the Bengals back when the Bengals were god awful (not that they're anything special). Now watch, Cincy will lose to them.

[SirFozzie]

wow.. possibly a huuuuuuge replay challenge (automatic, turnover/scoring play) right here in Atl/Ariz

[SirFozzie]

And that's why you teach folks to PLAY UNTIL THE WHISTLE

[BillJasper]

Boy, the Cardinals are bad.

[SirFozzie]

Even if the Cardinals win this game they should be tagged with a loss.

[BillJasper]

Whisenhunt and Graves should be fired. They've had like six years to develop a half-capable QB and have failed miserably.

[GrantDawg]

I think Matt Ryan has money on the Cardinals.

[JonInMiddleGA]

We've secretly replaced the Falcons & Cardinals with the Auburn Tigers and the Tennessee Volunteers ... let's see if anyone notices.

If the Cardinals are this hard to watch every week, fans in Arizona have my sympathy.

[stevew]

Chad Henne looks good.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

As bad as the Chiefs are, they'll find a way to blow the #1 overall draft pick status.

[Honolulu_Blue]

As bad as the Chiefs are, they'll find a way to blow the #1 overall draft pick status.

Does it matter all that much this year? Is there are a consensus #1 overall draft pick that's so much better than #2 or #3 or #4 that it will matter that much?

I haven't really watched that much college football this year, but I can't think of a player off the top of my head.

[Alan T]

Well looks like Falcons will pull out a very ugly win. I'll take it.. but it sure was not pretty.

[MrBug708]

TJ Ward should see a nice fine for targeting

[mckerney]

Well done Romo, well done.

[Radii]

Carolina is so bad. Oh well, wins just mean a worse lower draft pick now.

[Dutch]

Wow, I can't believe the Bucs won that game!

The Bucs looked horrible for most of the day offensively, but played absolutely perfect in the last 5 minutes and in OT. Don't look now but the Bucs are 6-4!

[JPhillips]

Does it matter all that much this year? Is there are a consensus #1 overall draft pick that's so much better than #2 or #3 or #4 that it will matter that much?

I haven't really watched that much college football this year, but I can't think of a player off the top of my head.

There are some really solid defensive players in the top ten, but I don't see a single skill player that is both top five talent and unlikely to bust. I'm not sold on any of the top five QBs and there isn't a Trent Richardson or AJ Green in this draft.

[Dutch]

Vincent Jackson makes a HUGE catch in double coverage and then gets the 2-pt conversion to push overtime.

Then Dallas Clark gets free on the sideline and makes a tip-toe TD catch and is bombarded by teammates after being unlikely hero in Bucs win over Panthers.

[Lathum]

Not the week to advise my wife to bench Matt Schaub for Carson Palmer

[Jas_lov]

Great week of games with a lot of superior teams being fortunate to win. Packers got out of Detroit with a win despite Crosby. They should bring in FA kickers this week for tryouts. Offense had two good drives and the defense without Matthews and Woodson really won that game. Should be a nice rematch next week vs NYG.

[BillJasper]

Does Reid survive another week after such an ugly loss?

[Desnudo]

talib!

[Desnudo]

Luck is clearly going to be a good player. I don't understand all the rookie of the year talk based on his stats to-date though. RG III and Wilson are both superior.

[BillJasper]

Luck is clearly going to be a good player. I don't understand all the rookie of the year talk based on his stats to-date though. RG III and Wilson are both superior.

Well, you have a very similar team to one that went 2-14 last year that may make the playoffs this year. If Manning was an MVP by simply not being there then I think the difference the presence of Luck makes, makes him a Rookie of the Year candidate.

[EagleFan]

Does Reid survive another week after such an ugly loss?

I certainly hope not. I'm done with this team this year.

[BillJasper]

The Chargers need to fire Turner before Philip Rivers turns into a complete pile of shit.

[Desnudo]

I would love to see Turner and Reid both get fired and switch jobs.

[Vince, Pt. II]

The Arizona / Atlanta game may have been ugly, but that was one awesome fumble recovery:

Video: Cardinals make amazing play on sideline fumble recovery | Shutdown Corner - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/video-cardinals-amazing-play-sideline-fumble-recovery-222110810--nfl.html)

[BillJasper]

I would love to see Turner and Reid both get fired and switch jobs.

Only way I see Turner being a head coach again is as a 'yes man' for Jerry Jones down in Dallas.

[Thomkal]

All I can say about my beloved Cardinals-to pick Matt Ryan off 5 times and not win the game let alone score a ton of points...pathetic. It should mark the end of the Whisenhunt and Graves era-the gamble with Kolb might have worked...if they actually tried to improve the O-Line during the offseason after giving up the most sacks last season.

[TroyF]

Luck is clearly going to be a good player. I don't understand all the rookie of the year talk based on his stats to-date though. RG III and Wilson are both superior.

Huh? Using conventional stats the other two might be better. Pretty much all of the advanced statistical models I have seen have Luck far ahead of the other two.

QBR has Luck 4, Griffin 10, Wilson 17.

Football Outsiders has Luck 10, Wilson 17, Griffin 19.

These use successful plays and game situations rather than just conventional numbers.

Griffin likely improved all of his advanced stats today to move up, but Luck has been terrific thus far.

[Simbo Klice]

*sniff* Luck just did a Steve McNair Special... Throwing a first down pass while being dragged down from behind. RIP Steve.

[cuervo72]

I would love to see Turner and Reid both get fired and switch jobs.

I do still think Reid gets a long look from SD, if not the job. No way in hell Norv should be hired in Philly though.

[TroyF]

Oh, one more thing about Luck vs. the other two guys. The other two guys aren't really running conventional offenses. Heading into this week, the Colts had played 9 games, the Skins and Hawks had played 10.

Luck has thrown the ball 362 times. Griffin 262. Wilson 253. By the time todays games end, Luck will have well over 400 pass attempts while neither of the other two will have close to 300.

He's simply being asked to do a hell of a lot more than what the other two guys are. If I had a vote, he would be my ROY if the season ended today

[BillJasper]

Oh, one more thing about Luck vs. the other two guys. The other two guys aren't really running conventional offenses. Heading into this week, the Colts had played 9 games, the Skins and Hawks had played 10.

Luck has thrown the ball 362 times. Griffin 262. Wilson 253. By the time todays games end, Luck will have well over 400 pass attempts while neither of the other two will have close to 300.

He's simply being asked to do a hell of a lot more than what the other two guys are. If I had a vote, he would be my ROY if the season ended today

He's looking like a rookie today.

[Matthean]

He's looking like a rookie today.

Try keeping up with Brady with the Colts defense backing you up.

[BillJasper]

Try keeping up with Brady with the Colts defense backing you up.

Luck has had two Pick Six int's and a fumble that led to another Patriot TD. He's looked very much like a rookie and the main reason the Patriots are up big.

[Desnudo]

Huh? Using conventional stats the other two might be better. Pretty much all of the advanced statistical models I have seen have Luck far ahead of the other two.

QBR has Luck 4, Griffin 10, Wilson 17.

Football Outsiders has Luck 10, Wilson 17, Griffin 19.

These use successful plays and game situations rather than just conventional numbers.

Griffin likely improved all of his advanced stats today to move up, but Luck has been terrific thus far.

I don't know what those numbers mean. I can tell you they won't be favoring Luck after two TAINTS today.

[cuervo72]

Not a smart INT, Leonard.

[Matthean]

Luck has had two Pick Six int's and a fumble that led to another Patriot TD. He's looked very much like a rookie and the main reason the Patriots are up big.

Bad games from rookie QBs happen. It doesn't change the fact that Indy is tied with Seattle and beating the Redskins in terms of record and yet Washington was 5-11 and Seattle was 7-9 last year while Indy was 2-14. How many people at the start of the year had Indy being a game up on the rest of the AFC in terms of a wildcard during week 11? I highly doubt many.

[BillJasper]

Bad games from rookie QBs happen. It doesn't change the fact that Indy is tied with Seattle and beating the Redskins in terms of record and yet Washington was 5-11 and Seattle was 7-9 last year while Indy was 2-14. How many people at the start of the year had Indy being a game up on the rest of the AFC in terms of a wildcard during week 11? I highly doubt many.

Which I pointed out in an earlier post, that he was in the running because of the improvement in the Colts record. Doesn't change that he's had an incredibly shitty day today.

[TroyF]

I don't know what those numbers mean. I can tell you they won't be favoring Luck after two TAINTS today.

The numbers will be bad today and will look poorly on Luck, but they also encompass an entire season. Two passes and a fumble aren't dropping him below Wilson, and probably will not drop him below Griffin, even after the showing he had today.

The numbers are really simple. They don't rate every play equally. A 3rd and 10 where you pick up 7 is a failed play. A 4th down or hail mary INT isn't rated as bad as a first and 10 INT. You can go to footballoutsiders.com to see most of the metrics.

Luck had a rough day and it was one I expected him to have. The Patriots at home and pissed off. Colts defense simply horrible. That makes it a shootout. Say what you want about the INT's and the fumble, Luck is feeling pressured to keep up and make throws he doesn't want to because he knows his defense isn't stopping the Pats.

Pats have TD drives today of 81,80,76, and 68 yards. They have punted one time. Again, Luck didn't play well today, but he wasn't nearly as bad as the numbers indicate either. My guess is he'll still rank ahead of the other two in the stats after tomorrow morning. And I still rate him my ROY. Now, Griffin plays like he did today and Luck plays like he did today for the rest of the year? Griffin in a landslide. I don't expect that to happen.

[TroyF]

Broncos need Rivers to make one of his screwups here. Chargers get a TD here, this could get interesting. Denver has no running game and Chargers have all three timeouts left. This isn't over yet.

[JAG]

Huh? Using conventional stats the other two might be better. Pretty much all of the advanced statistical models I have seen have Luck far ahead of the other two.

QBR has Luck 4, Griffin 10, Wilson 17.

Football Outsiders has Luck 10, Wilson 17, Griffin 19.

These use successful plays and game situations rather than just conventional numbers.

Griffin likely improved all of his advanced stats today to move up, but Luck has been terrific thus far.

How about supporting cast? Reggie Wayne >>> Aldrick Robinson. I don't know enough to compare the rest of the offenses, but I suspect the Colts have better passing game weapons than the Redskins, though the Redskins have a better running game.

[TroyF]

close call, I think it's a TD

[TroyF]

How about supporting cast? Reggie Wayne >>> Aldrick Robinson. I don't know enough to compare the rest of the offenses, but I suspect the Colts have better passing game weapons than the Redskins, though the Redskins have a better running game.

Wilson has a better D and running game.

Griffin is the one I would rate close to Luck, but he has a far better running game to work with. A long way to go, we'll see how they all perform over the next six games or so.

[TroyF]

I would like to thank the Chargers for stupidly running the ball with 1:40 left and wasting a time out in doing it. By not have that time out, the Broncos without their running game can allow the clock to slide all the way down to 30 seconds or so instead of giving the ball back to SD with over a minute left. That really helped us out there. Thanks Norv.

[BillJasper]

Wilson has a better D and running game.

Griffin is the one I would rate close to Luck, but he has a far better running game to work with. A long way to go, we'll see how they all perform over the next six games or so.

And Wilson has Sidney Rice to throw the ball too.

I'd rate all three pretty close together right now. But I think Luck is the most complete QB, Griffin is an electric game-changer and Wilson is a game manager.

[TroyF]

And that's the division. Denver now up three games + the tie break. Beat the Chiefs twice and the Raiders once and they can lose every other game and win the division. Not a pretty win today, but a win.

[Desnudo]

The numbers will be bad today and will look poorly on Luck, but they also encompass an entire season. Two passes and a fumble aren't dropping him below Wilson, and probably will not drop him below Griffin, even after the showing he had today.

The numbers are really simple. They don't rate every play equally. A 3rd and 10 where you pick up 7 is a failed play. A 4th down or hail mary INT isn't rated as bad as a first and 10 INT. You can go to footballoutsiders.com to see most of the metrics.

Luck had a rough day and it was one I expected him to have. The Patriots at home and pissed off. Colts defense simply horrible. That makes it a shootout. Say what you want about the INT's and the fumble, Luck is feeling pressured to keep up and make throws he doesn't want to because he knows his defense isn't stopping the Pats.

Pats have TD drives today of 81,80,76, and 68 yards. They have punted one time. Again, Luck didn't play well today, but he wasn't nearly as bad as the numbers indicate either. My guess is he'll still rank ahead of the other two in the stats after tomorrow morning. And I still rate him my ROY. Now, Griffin plays like he did today and Luck plays like he did today for the rest of the year? Griffin in a landslide. I don't expect that to happen.

I honestly find it amazing that advanced stats would find Luck so far ahead of Wilson specifically and RG III as well. Normally I'm all for the Nate Silvers of the world, but I find the conclusion that he's in the same category this year as RG III and Wilson to be pretty ridiculous.

Say what you want about the traditional quarterback rating - there is a very strong correlation between QB rating differential and victories. So a highly rated QB gives you much better chance of victory...

The top ten in QB rating is the who's who of the best quarterbacks in the league and includes RG III with Wilson sitting at 12th. Luck was 26th before today's game.

[Julio Riddols]

I'd go with Griffin as my ROY in a heartbeat. He has had no one to really throw to most of the season, yet he continues to put up outstanding numbers almost every week. He's the best dual threat QB the league has ever seen, light years ahead of Vick. When they get some healthy weapons around him, the Redskins offense is going to be VERY scary. In indy, Luck is doing well with a similar lack of talent, but he also has Reggie Wayne playing perhaps the best he has ever played and a much stronger (and vastly underrated) defense behind him. I think if Griffin had Garcon, Carriker and Orakpo healthy all year, it would be even more clear cut, but Griffin is producing at a level that hasn't been seen since Randall Cunningham in his prime, while Luck is having a very good season, but nothing we haven't seen from a rookie before.

[BillJasper]

Isn't Luck on pace to break the rookie records for TD's, Passing Yards and Victories?

[Matthean]

So a highly rated QB gives you much better chance of victory...

The top ten in QB rating is the who's who of the best quarterbacks in the league and includes RG III with Wilson sitting at 12th. Luck was 26th before today's game.

So why is Indy two games higher than Washington if RGIII is so clearly superior?

[Desnudo]

So why is Indy two games higher than Washington if RGIII is so clearly superior?

Because it's a correlation, not a guarantee? Washington has a bad differential. Indy has one of the worst. I wouldn't be suprised to see Indy continue trend towards that differential in the second half. Meaning they lose a lot more.

[Matthean]

In indy, Luck is doing well with a similar lack of talent, but he also has Reggie Wayne playing perhaps the best he has ever played and a much stronger (and vastly underrated) defense behind him. I think if Griffin had Garcon, Carriker and Orakpo healthy all year, it would be even more clear cut, but Griffin is producing at a level that hasn't been seen since Randall Cunningham in his prime, while Luck is having a very good season, but nothing we haven't seen from a rookie before.

But I want you to look at something …

QB1: 2,645 yards, 18 TDs, 3 picks, 64.8 completion %, 15 sacks, 100.1 rating.
QB2: 2,072 yards, 15 TDs, 4 picks, 63.0 completion %, 21 sacks, 96.5 rating.

The first QB is Brady. The second QB is everyone who started against the 2012 Colts — a list that features exactly one quality QB (Aaron Rodgers), one above-average QB (Jay Cutler), one just-about-washed-up QB (Matt Hasselbeck), two rookie QBs (Brandon Weeden, Ryan Tannehill), three struggling second-year QBs (Christian Ponder, Blaine Gabbert and Blaine Gabbert again), and one totally embattled QB (Mark Sanchez). Rodgers ranks second in QB rating, Ponder ranks 20th, and the other six range from 24th (Cutler) to 31st (Weeden). And yet, somehow, The Guy Who Goes Against The 2012 Colts would have the ninth-highest QB rating and the eighth-best touchdown/interception ratio.

Indy has now given up 6 more points than the Redskins have.

[stevew]

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/kansascity/obituary.aspx?n=loren-g-lickteig-sam&pid=161109778#fbLoggedOut

Loren G. "Sam" Lickteig passed away on Nov. 14, 2012 of complications from MS and heartbreaking disappointment caused by the Kansas City Chiefs football team.

Read more here: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/kansascity/obituary.aspx?n=loren-g-lickteig-sam&pid=161109778#fbLoggedOut#storylink=cpy

[stevew]

Isn't Luck on pace to break the rookie records for TD's, Passing Yards and Victories?

Big ben won like 12 or 13 games as a rookie.

[BillJasper]

Big ben won like 12 or 13 games as a rookie.

Right you are. On the broadcast they said the record was seven, which didn't seem right. They forgot about Ben and so did I. :lol:

[Matthean]

Isn't Luck on pace to break the rookie records for TD's, Passing Yards and Victories?

Peyton had 26 TDs. Luck has 10. Cam had 4K+ yards. Luck has 2.6K. Big Ben as mentioned earlier has the most wins.

[BillJasper]

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/kansascity/obituary.aspx?n=loren-g-lickteig-sam&pid=161109778#fbLoggedOut

Loren G. "Sam" Lickteig passed away on Nov. 14, 2012 of complications from MS and heartbreaking disappointment caused by the Kansas City Chiefs football team.

Read more here: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/kansascity/obituary.aspx?n=loren-g-lickteig-sam&pid=161109778#fbLoggedOut#storylink=cpy

Guy passed away from a broken heart, his wife just died in July of this year. Watched this with my wife's grandparents. They were married for sixty-nine years and one passed less than ten months after the other. :(

[Danny]

Huh? Using conventional stats the other two might be better. Pretty much all of the advanced statistical models I have seen have Luck far ahead of the other two.

QBR has Luck 4, Griffin 10, Wilson 17.

Football Outsiders has Luck 10, Wilson 17, Griffin 19.

These use successful plays and game situations rather than just conventional numbers.

Griffin likely improved all of his advanced stats today to move up, but Luck has been terrific thus far.

Do those numbers take into account rushing by a QB?

[BillJasper]

Peyton had 26 TDs. Luck has 10. Cam had 4K+ yards. Luck has 2.6K. Big Ben as mentioned earlier has the most wins.

Another 14 TD's over six games isn't unreachable, neither is another 1,500 yards. Then we have Luck already having six rushing TD's as well.

[Julio Riddols]

I thought we almost unanimously shot the QBR rating system to hell last season when it was introduced.

[Jas_lov]

They look at W-L record for MVP, not sure how much they will for ROY. RG3 is probably the front runner despite his team being less likely than Luck's or Wilson's to make the playoffs. Shanahan already wrote off the playoffs anyway so this is a showcase for RG3. This isn't baseball where advanced stats are looked at more closely. NFL writers will look at the conventional stats which favor RG3 and Wilson.

[stevew]

That TD run was an embarrassment for organized football

[stevew]

I thought we almost unanimously shot the QBR rating system to hell last season when it was introduced.

Yeah. I get mad when I see it referenced.

[BillJasper]

That TD run was an embarrassment for organized football

:lol:

Can we put the "Elite" debate for Flacco away if he loses to Leftwich tonight? :lol:

[Desnudo]

I thought leftwich was slow

[BillJasper]

They look at W-L record for MVP, not sure how much they will for ROY. RG3 is probably the front runner despite his team being less likely than Luck's or Wilson's to make the playoffs. Shanahan already wrote off the playoffs anyway so this is a showcase for RG3. This isn't baseball where advanced stats are looked at more closely. NFL writers will look at the conventional stats which favor RG3 and Wilson.

How can you ignore a team being seven or eight wins better than they were the prior season when evaluating a rookie QB?

[BillJasper]

Nice ball control Wallace.

[Apathetic Lurker]

He is...Baltimore D is even slower...No traction for their walkers and wheelchairs on grass .

[Julio Riddols]

How can you ignore a team being seven or eight wins better than they were the prior season when evaluating a rookie QB?

This didn't help Dalton win ROY last season. I know it wasn't 7 or 8 wins, but if we're considering the improvement over expectations.. Cinci was expected to be a 1 or 2 win team last year. I expected the Colts to be something like 6-10 this season.

[Matthean]

This didn't help Dalton win ROY last season.

Well, Cam was involved.

[Julio Riddols]

Well, Cam was involved.

That's why I think Griffin gets it this season. He is head and shoulders better than Newton was last year. It is a very comparable scenario, actually. Luck and Griffin are like a more talented version of Dalton and Newton.

[larrymcg421]

QB1: 1 Att, 1 Comp, 1 Yard, 1 TD, 0 INT
QB2: 1 Att, 1 Comp, 98 Yards, 0 TD, 0 INT

QB Rating sees these two QB's as exactly the same.

QB1: Completes a 2 yard pass on 3rd and 10.
QB2: Completes a 2 yard pass on 3rd and 1.

These plays have equal value in QB rating.

Discrepancies like this are what Football Outsiders (and ESPN's new QB Rating system, which has Luck 4th) seek to fix.

Also, if someone has a weaker running game and is thus forced into more 3rd and long situations, FO's system corrects for this by comparing the player to other QB's in similar situations. So if QB1 is in 100 3rd and 8 situations and QB2 is in 50 3rd and 8 situations, but they perform the same on average in those situations, they would be considered the same in FO, but QBR would more likely penalize QB1.

[britrock88]

Carolina is so bad. Oh well, wins just mean a worse lower draft pick now.

We'll find a way to screw that up; don't worry.

[Julio Riddols]

I think the only 2 stats that matter when evaluating a QB from a passing standpoint are YPA and INT%. TDs are largely influenced by the rest of the team, as are wins. I think it is really as simple as taking YPA-INT% regarding someone's passing efficiency. This doesn't take into account any type of running, and requires a large sample size, but I think it is probably the best way to evaluate the true worth of a QB from a strictly throwing perspective.

Taking the numbers from the end of last week, these are the top 10 QB's with 200 or more attempts-

Brady 6.6
Freeman 6.5
Griffin III 6.5
P. Manning 6.4
Rodgers 5.9
Ryan 5.9
Roethlisberger 5.9
A. Smith 5.7
Brees 5.2
Flacco 5.2
Schaub 5.1

That actually seems about right to me.

2011 top 10:

1. Rodgers 8.0
2. Brady 6.6
3. Schaub 6.4
4. Brees 6.2
5. Romo 6.1
6. A. Smith 6.0
7. E. Manning 5.7
8. Flacco 5.5
9. Ryan 5.3
10. Cutler 5.2
Stafford 5.2
Roethlisberger 5.2

Romo and Cutler's teams were the only two of the above to miss the post season, but both were in the hunt til the end. I don't think anyone would argue too hard that Denver (8-8) made the playoffs mostly due to being incredibly lucky, and that Cinci (9-7) made the playoffs mostly due to their really weak schedule. The rest were legit contenders. I wouldn't be surprised if 2012 ends up about the same.

in 2010, 7 of the top 10 made the postseason. Of the 3 that didn't, the Chargers went 9-7 after starting 2-5 and were considered the most dangerous team not to make the playoffs, and the Broncos and Texans defenses were in the bottom 4 in both points and yards allowed.

[molson]

It looks like Gronkowski has a broken forearm, out 4-6 weeks. I think it'll be tough for the Pats to pass the Broncos for a bye at this point with Denver's schedule coming up whether Gronk plays or not, so if he's back healthy for the playoffs, then it's not a huge disaster, they can certainly score points and win the East without him.

[Desnudo]

It looks like Gronkowski has a broken forearm, out 4-6 weeks. I think it'll be tough for the Pats to pass the Broncos for a bye at this point with Denver's schedule coming up whether Gronk plays or not, so if he's back healthy for the playoffs, then it's not a huge disaster, they can certainly score points and win the East without him.

I wouldn't be suprised if Hernandez misses the Jets game. It will be interesting to see what formations they run. I would love to see them run the old school two back formation with Vereen and Ridley.

[Swaggs]

Byron Leftwich throws a beautiful ball...

...to the wrong team. :(

[Danny]

Pitt is in some trouble here for the season until they get Big Ben back

[Suburban Rhythm]

Pitt is in some trouble here for the season until they get Big Ben back

While they aren't great without Roethlisberger, keep in mind they're also without their #1 WR and defensive playmaker. Along with Indy, they're one of the two wildcards. SD and the rest of that mess below .500 aren't too worrisome.

[Grover]

While they aren't great without Roethlisberger, keep in mind they're also without their #1 WR and defensive playmaker. Along with Indy, they're one of the two wildcards. SD and the rest of that mess below .500 aren't too worrisome.

Cincinnati's next four opponents are all under .500. Don't discount them yet.

[stevew]

Brown isn't the #1 WR, he has something like 2 TDs in the last 2 years. Anyways, looking forward to seeing Harrison, Mendenhall, polamalu and hopefully Tomlin(I'm dreaming) all gone this off-season

[jbergey22]

Why would you want Tomlin gone?

[Suburban Rhythm]

Brown isn't the #1 WR, he has something like 2 TDs in the last 2 years. Anyways, looking forward to seeing Harrison, Mendenhall, polamalu and hopefully Tomlin(I'm dreaming) all gone this off-season

If there's a better option than Tomlin available, sure. Curious who that is though.

[TroyF]

Do those numbers take into account rushing by a QB?

Yes they do.

I can tell you a huge reason the QB's are ranked the way they are in the advanced stats.

3rd down conversions.

Heading into the Jacksonville game the Colts were the best team in the league converting first downs from 3rd and 6 or more. (over 40%)

As of the November 7th, here is first down conversions for the three QB;s:

Luck - 44 of 99 (44%)
Griffin - 23 of 78 (29%)
Wilson - 27 of 83 (33%)

Total yards per game - Indy 7th, Skins 9th, Seattle 26th.

To me, this is only between two guys. Wilson is a result of the Seahawks defense and running game. Griffin and Luck are asked to do more.

Luck is asked to do A LOT more. Griffin has thrown the ball over 30 times in a game 4 times and has not hit the 40 pass attempt mark. Luck has thrown it over 30 on 8 different occasions. He's thrown it over 40 times on 6 different occasions. He's thrown it over 50 times twice.

Schedules are about the same, though Luck has faced two top 10 pass defenses, Griffin one. (the one Griffin faced, he did very poor by the way, not completing 50% of his passes)

I'm not going to argue too much over someone making the case for Griffin over Luck. For my money Luck has been the better QB, but Griffin is playing very good football. I think when you look at the third down conversion rates, it shows how much Luck is asked to do compared to the other two. One guy is asked to act like a top ten QB and not only throw it on third down, but also to convert long third downs. The other two are asked not to screw up.

If rating is everything and Luck starts to slip, we'll know it soon enough.Here are the finishing schedules:

Luck - Texans x2, vs. Buffalo, @Detroit, vs. Titans, @KC
Griffin - Cowboys x2, vs. Giants, vs. Ravens, @ Cleveland, @Eagles

[TroyF]

Brown isn't the #1 WR, he has something like 2 TDs in the last 2 years. Anyways, looking forward to seeing Harrison, Mendenhall, polamalu and hopefully Tomlin(I'm dreaming) all gone this off-season

Holy crap, you'd better keep Tomlin. he's a terrific coach. One of my favorites in the game.

[DaddyTorgo]

It looks like Gronkowski has a broken forearm, out 4-6 weeks. I think it'll be tough for the Pats to pass the Broncos for a bye at this point with Denver's schedule coming up whether Gronk plays or not, so if he's back healthy for the playoffs, then it's not a huge disaster, they can certainly score points and win the East without him.

Yeah...yikes. On a PAT too no less. Sucks.

[stevew]

It's hilarious that you guys think Tomlin is a good coach. 4 years of losing and playing down to inferior competition. Horrific strategic moves with timeouts and challenges.

[Danny]

Andy Reid is pretty close by, you can pck him up

[stevew]

Oh god no.

[chadritt]

It's hilarious that you guys think Tomlin is a good coach. 4 years of losing and playing down to inferior competition. Horrific strategic moves with timeouts and challenges.

Hes made the playoffs 4 times in 5 years, the superbowl twice, and won it all once. You have seriously high standards if you dont think thats good.

[Julio Riddols]

The only thing Tomlin hasn't done well in my opinion is draft. Other than WRs and Pouncey, he hasn't done so well. He masterfully motivates a team that is supposed to have been on the decline for years and has never had a losing season with them, only missing the playoffs once. To me, I can't tell the difference between him and Cowher as far as his overall quality of coaching goes.

[Suburban Rhythm]

The only thing Tomlin hasn't done well in my opinion is draft. Other than WRs and Pouncey, he hasn't done so well. He masterfully motivates a team that is supposed to have been on the decline for years and has never had a losing season with them, only missing the playoffs once. To me, I can't tell the difference between him and Cowher as far as his overall quality of coaching goes.

Pretty funny you should mention Cowher.

Peter King's MMQB last week had a comparison of where each guy stood when they hit their 60th win. Not 100% on these numbers, but you'll get the point.

Cowher 60-30, 4-5 in the playoffs, 0-1 in the Super Bowl.

Tomlin 60-28, 6-4, 1-1

Alot of Pittsburgh loves to point to Tomlin winning "with Cowher's players". It so simple, it's why Cowher only did it once.

[Julio Riddols]

He's just the perfect guy to coach the Steelers, IMO. His whole personality just feels like the Steeler personality.

[Jas_lov]

Unless Sean Peyton becomes available who is out there better than Tomlin? Dungy doesn't want to coach. Gruden is a clown on MNF. Cowher didn't win any more than Tomlin. Coughlin, Tomlin, Peyton, McCarthy, Bellichick. Those are the only Superbowl coaches in the game. It's hard to win in this league so to put it all on Tomlin, when he actually has won, doesn't make any sense.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Unless Sean Peyton becomes available who is out there better than Tomlin? Dungy doesn't want to coach. Gruden is a clown on MNF. Cowher didn't win any more than Tomlin. Coughlin, Tomlin, Peyton, McCarthy, Bellichick. Those are the only Superbowl coaches in the game. It's hard to win in this league so to put it all on Tomlin, when he actually has won, doesn't make any sense.

Funny how it works, 5 seasons ago Coughlin was horrible, and soon to be out of a job. Then a genius. Now trending towards horrible again.

[Danny]

Funny how it works, 5 seasons ago Coughlin was horrible, and soon to be out of a job. Then a genius. Now trending towards horrible again.

That's because people are what have you done for me lately idiots. Coughlin has always been a very good coach.

[Danny]

But apparently Coughlin and Tomlin are morons because their teams are only 6-4 lol.

Teams should hire Romeo Crennel as a traveling coach. He'll coach your team for a week and then boom you will then appreciate the guy you have.

[Danny]

Heck, Crennel, Mangini, Weis and Mcdaniels could start a business together doing that.

[BishopMVP]

Luck is clearly going to be a good player. I don't understand all the rookie of the year talk based on his stats to-date though. RG III and Wilson are both superior.NO ONE DENIES that Luck will be a good player, but I completely agree those announcers today were a little over the top. Even when he made terrible, "rookie" mistakes like the pick to Dennard that was thrown 4 feet behind his receiver they were praising him. If it had been Blaine Gabbert or Ryan Tannehill making those throws they would have been all over him, but they were completely giving Luck a pass today even though he was having a poor game.Justin Blackmon is not.:)

[TroyF]

It's hilarious that you guys think Tomlin is a good coach. 4 years of losing and playing down to inferior competition. Horrific strategic moves with timeouts and challenges.

2007 - 10-6, division winner
2008 - 12-4 Super Bowl Title
2009 - 9-7 with all 7 losses being by a TD or less
2010 - 12-4 (loss in Super Bowl)
2011 - 12-4 (loss in Wild Card game)
2012 - 6-4


Only 7 times have the Steelers been beaten by 10 or more points in in over 5 1/2 years. The Broncos have 27 losses by 10 or more during the same period. The Pats have 6 losses by double digits in the period and that included a 16-0 season.

Sorry man, but I'll take those numbers any day of the week and twice on Sunday. His teams are prepared, he gets teams to the Super Bowl, conducts himself with class and he's only 40.

If he hit the market, he would be out about 2 minutes before a bidding war would start. That's all you need to know about how good your head coach is.

[Desnudo]

Yes they do.

I can tell you a huge reason the QB's are ranked the way they are in the advanced stats.

3rd down conversions.

Heading into the Jacksonville game the Colts were the best team in the league converting first downs from 3rd and 6 or more. (over 40%)

As of the November 7th, here is first down conversions for the three QB;s:

Luck - 44 of 99 (44%)
Griffin - 23 of 78 (29%)
Wilson - 27 of 83 (33%)

Total yards per game - Indy 7th, Skins 9th, Seattle 26th.

To me, this is only between two guys. Wilson is a result of the Seahawks defense and running game. Griffin and Luck are asked to do more.

Luck is asked to do A LOT more. Griffin has thrown the ball over 30 times in a game 4 times and has not hit the 40 pass attempt mark. Luck has thrown it over 30 on 8 different occasions. He's thrown it over 40 times on 6 different occasions. He's thrown it over 50 times twice.

Schedules are about the same, though Luck has faced two top 10 pass defenses, Griffin one. (the one Griffin faced, he did very poor by the way, not completing 50% of his passes)

I'm not going to argue too much over someone making the case for Griffin over Luck. For my money Luck has been the better QB, but Griffin is playing very good football. I think when you look at the third down conversion rates, it shows how much Luck is asked to do compared to the other two. One guy is asked to act like a top ten QB and not only throw it on third down, but also to convert long third downs. The other two are asked not to screw up.

If rating is everything and Luck starts to slip, we'll know it soon enough.Here are the finishing schedules:

Luck - Texans x2, vs. Buffalo, @Detroit, vs. Titans, @KC
Griffin - Cowboys x2, vs. Giants, vs. Ravens, @ Cleveland, @Eagles

You crack me up. So complicated. Luck has been fine for a rookie. In no way is he close to rg III or Wilson. If he was drafted where Wilson was this wouldn't even be an argument.

[rowech]

Yeah...yikes. On a PAT too no less. Sucks.

Going for a 59th point with four minutes left. Belichek is so stupid sometimes.

[RedKingGold]

The only thing Tomlin hasn't done well in my opinion is draft. Other than WRs and Pouncey, he hasn't done so well. He masterfully motivates a team that is supposed to have been on the decline for years and has never had a losing season with them, only missing the playoffs once. To me, I can't tell the difference between him and Cowher as far as his overall quality of coaching goes.

...and Tomlin doesn't even draft the players. I'm pretty sure the Steelers maintain the coach-GM division of labor. I think Kevin Colbert is GM?

[Logan]

Alex Smith ruled out for tonight.

[Suburban Rhythm]

...and Tomlin doesn't even draft the players. I'm pretty sure the Steelers maintain the coach-GM division of labor. I think Kevin Colbert is GM?

Yes Colbert is the GM, and has final say, but I think Tomlin has some input, as Cowher did.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Pretty funny you should mention Cowher.

Peter King's MMQB last week had a comparison of where each guy stood when they hit their 60th win. Not 100% on these numbers, but you'll get the point.

Cowher 60-30, 4-5 in the playoffs, 0-1 in the Super Bowl.

Tomlin 60-28, 6-4, 1-1

Alot of Pittsburgh loves to point to Tomlin winning "with Cowher's players". It so simple, it's why Cowher only did it once.


For anyone interested, from last weeks MMQB

49ers-Rams tie; more Week 10 thoughts - Peter King - SI.com (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/11/12/week-10/3.html)



The Pro Football Hall of Fame's 44 selectors just finished voting to winnow the list of 127 preliminary nominees for the Hall of Fame's Class of 2013 down to 25. On that list of 127 names was coach Bill Cowher, former coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers. I think it's a good time, in the middle of current Steelers coach Mike Tomlin's sixth season, to compare him to Cowher. Their careers are similar, with Tomlin having a slight edge.


I used the 60th victory of each man's regularseason career, which Tomlin achieved last week against the Giants, as the line of demarcation. How each man fared at the time of that 60th victory is in the table to the right.

Cowher won a Super Bowl in his 14th season and coached 15 years. The way Tomlin has begun his career, and with the Steelers such a consistent organization, there's no reason to think he won't follow in Cowher's career footsteps -- and perhaps even eclipse what his predecessor did.



Cowher 60-30 , Playoffs: 4-5 , SB: 1-1
Tomlin 60-28 , Playoffs: 5-3, SB: 1-1

Not sure why he's crediting Cowher with the SB win there, which happened about 10 years after his 60th win.

[Scoobz0202]

Funny how it works, 5 seasons ago Coughlin was horrible, and soon to be out of a job. Then a genius. Now trending towards horrible again.

I'm pretty sure people were calling for his head in the middle of last season, too. Not sure if it was on here, but I definitely heard it.

[Sun Tzu]

Alex Smith ruled out for tonight.

This one hurts. I would be very surprised if the Chicago defense didn't completely light up Colin Kaepernick.

[Lathum]

I'm pretty sure people were calling for his head in the middle of last season, too. Not sure if it was on here, but I definitely heard it.

I'll fully admit I was questioning him last year but once the team got healthy and gelled obviously he was able to bring the team together.

[JediKooter]

I would like to thank the Chargers for stupidly running the ball with 1:40 left and wasting a time out in doing it. By not have that time out, the Broncos without their running game can allow the clock to slide all the way down to 30 seconds or so instead of giving the ball back to SD with over a minute left. That really helped us out there. Thanks Norv.

Game Manager and Norv Turner are two things that will not be linked together any time soon. Plus, I've never seen so many delay of game penalties until Norv became the head coach of the Chargers.

Nail number 6 in the coffin for Norv's job in San Diego.

[kingfc22]

This one hurts. I would be very surprised if the Chicago defense didn't completely light up Colin Kaepernick.

Time to update the thread title to Backup QB's square off on MNF

[Passacaglia]

No mention of Romo's clutchiness? Spot him 50 yards in penalties, and he's your guy to get your team that game-tying FG (as long as someone on your team recovers that fumble).

I also thought it was funny that the announcers were going on about how great it was that Nick Fairley showed such restraint by not bodyslamming Aaron Rodgers to the ground. True class, that guy.

[Scoobz0202]

No mention of Romo's clutchiness? Spot him 50 yards in penalties, and he's your guy to get your team that game-tying FG (as long as someone on your team recovers that fumble).

It's not often Dallas is on the team with the fewest amount of penalties.

But props to Romo. He gets shit on when it's not his fault, might as well give him credit for something that is also out of his control.

[stevew]

If he hit the market, he would be out about 2 minutes before a bidding war would start. That's all you need to know about how good your head coach is.

He's been dumped into a situation with a legacy of winning, a structured system and has an elite QB. I bet that if the Steelers would have hired Raheem Morris, that they would have a pretty similar record.

What's with the timeout at 2:04? At 3rd and 7, they can pass or run now. Let that run the whole way down to the 2 minute mark.

And it looks like Leftwich is out at least this upcoming week, meaning that it's Charlie Batch or bust.

And the greater point is that Tomlin's teams seem to lay eggs vs some seriously inferior competition. We lost to the Raiders and Titans this year! We had to play about 65 minutes to beat the Chiefs. With an aging team it would be nice to utterly destroy some of these teams that should be defeated easily.

[BillJasper]

They're a team that's getting old with issues on the offensive line. Seems to me that many of the issues need to be laid more at the feet of Colbert than Tomlin.

Raheem Morris. :lol:

Go ahead and fire Tomlin... he won't be unemployed long. I still haven't seen you mention whose available that would be an upgrade over Tomlin?

[stevew]

Tomlin was a nobody when he was hired. I'm sure we could find another coac, it wouldn't be a big name hire.

Just for example, Bill Kollar, the Texans D-Line guy, coaches probably the best trained squad in football right now. He's having health problems, but I have a feeling he would make a great head coach. I would take a type of guy like this.

[Logan]

Tomlin was a nobody when he was hired. I'm sure we could find another coac, it wouldn't be a big name hire.

Just for example, Bill Kollar, the Texans D-Line guy, coaches probably the best trained squad in football right now. He's having health problems, but I have a feeling he would make a great head coach. I would take a type of guy like this.

I have no clue about that guy, was he there prior to Wade Phillips joining the team?

[stevew]

Looks like the wittle wions send Titus Young Sr. home for the week with no dinner before bed and no recess.

[jbergey22]

He's been dumped into a situation with a legacy of winning, a structured system and has an elite QB. I bet that if the Steelers would have hired Raheem Morris, that they would have a pretty similar record.

What's with the timeout at 2:04? At 3rd and 7, they can pass or run now. Let that run the whole way down to the 2 minute mark.

And it looks like Leftwich is out at least this upcoming week, meaning that it's Charlie Batch or bust.

And the greater point is that Tomlin's teams seem to lay eggs vs some seriously inferior competition. We lost to the Raiders and Titans this year! We had to play about 65 minutes to beat the Chiefs. With an aging team it would be nice to utterly destroy some of these teams that should be defeated easily.

This just happens in the NFL. The Niners lost to the Vikings this year. The Pats lost to Buffalo last year. The Packers lost to the Colts. The talent is just that close in the NFL that a couple of breaks against you and boom you lost to a below average team. Im not sure if any coach that has ever coached could prevent playing down to the competition at times.

It also could be that Pitt just isnt very good and Tomlins coaching is helping them win games. Their defense is old and the injuries have been plentiful this year. Id be happy to be sitting at 6-4 with the team you currently have.

[MIJB#19]

This just happens in the NFL. The Niners lost to the Vikings this year. The Pats lost to Buffalo last year. The Packers lost to the Colts. The talent is just that close in the NFL that a couple of breaks against you and boom you lost to a below average team. Im not sure if any coach that has ever coached could prevent playing down to the competition at times.

It also could be that Pitt just isnt very good and Tomlins coaching is helping them win games. Their defense is old and the injuries have been plentiful this year. Id be happy to be sitting at 6-4 with the team you currently have.I think it's safe to say that the Bills and especially the Vikings and Colts have played better football this season than the Raiders, Titans and Chiefs have.

[Danny]

Bills, Titans and Raiders are about in the same area of quality.

[jbergey22]

I think it's safe to say that the Bills and especially the Vikings and Colts have played better football this season than the Raiders, Titans and Chiefs have.

You must have missed the point.

It was playing down to the level of the competition. Clearly the Vikings are not as talented as the niners, the Bills were not as talented as the Pats last year, and the Colts are not the Packers. All of these cases are similar to where Pitt is right now. Pitt is not an elite team they are an average to slightly above average team. Upsets in the NFL happen regularly and many of them are much worse than Pitts two bad losses this year.

[jbergey22]

So its Jason Campbell tonight vs who for the niners? Kaepernick?

Finally a Monday night game worth watching and we get to watch these two square off. Anyone else thinking 9-6 final?

[Julio Riddols]

I think Kaepernick is more volatile and that volatility will give one team or the other the edge. Campbell has a much smaller performance range, IMO. It should be a low scoring game, but the Bears could easily win big or lose big depending on what goes on with Kaepernick.

[MIJB#19]

You must have missed the point.

It was playing down to the level of the competition. Clearly the Vikings are not as talented as the niners, the Bills were not as talented as the Pats last year, and the Colts are not the Packers. All of these cases are similar to where Pitt is right now. Pitt is not an elite team they are an average to slightly above average team. Upsets in the NFL happen regularly and many of them are much worse than Pitts two bad losses this year.I did notice your point, I just thought your examples did not compare well. The NFL has been prone to everybody can beat everybody. I feel the same way, actually.

And to make sure my feeling is correct, I decided to look at the W/L for all teams. Although first I looked at the overall home team record, which shows that it's right there where it's supposed to be: 56%.

Then I looked at the spread of W/L records, identifying all the extremes that are better than 7-3 or worse than 3-7. After MFN tonight, we'll have four teams better than 7-3 (Ravens, Texans, Falcons and either the 49ers/Bears) and four teams below 3-7 (Browns, Jaguars, Chiefs and Panthers).

In 2011 at the 10-game all point, just two (Packers and 49ers) were better than 7-3, with four (Colts, Vikings, Panthers and Rams) below 3-7. In 2010 the situation wasn't much different, with just three (Patriots, Jets and Falcons) better than 7-3 and four (Bills, Brown, Lions and Panthers) below 3-7. In 2009 it was the basically the same with three teams better than 7-3 (Colts, Saints, Vikings) and four worse than 3-7 (Browns, Lions, Buccaneers, Rams).

Contrary to the gutfeeling, I'm noticing things are very similar to the previous seasons.

[BillJasper]

Tomlin was a nobody when he was hired. I'm sure we could find another coac, it wouldn't be a big name hire.

Just for example, Bill Kollar, the Texans D-Line guy, coaches probably the best trained squad in football right now. He's having health problems, but I have a feeling he would make a great head coach. I would take a type of guy like this.

Were you calling for Cowher's head after one hundred games even though he had put up similar numbers to Tomlin?

[Suburban Rhythm]

Were you calling for Cowher's head after one hundred games even though he had put up similar numbers to Tomlin?

100 games in, Cowher had 1 SB appearance that he lost. Tomlin has 2 SB appearances, including a win.

The typical yinzer nation line is Tomlin is doing this with Cowher's players. But never an explanation as to why, if it was so simple to win titles with Cowher's guys, why Cowher didn't do so himself.

[stevew]

Were you calling for Cowher's head after one hundred games even though he had put up similar numbers to Tomlin?

I fuckin hated Cowher

[cuervo72]

How many current Steelers were even on the team in 2006?

[stevew]

Dola-

I suffered through years of shitty QBs....if we stick with Ben, we better be in it every year. Anything less than a deep playoff run is a failure. Once Ben is gone, it could be another decade of waiver retreads at QB.

[BishopMVP]

Going for a 59th point with four minutes left. Belichek is so stupid sometimes.Sarcasm?

[RedKingGold]

Alex Smith just might get Wally Pipped tonight.

[RedKingGold]

He's been dumped into a situation with a legacy of winning, a structured system and has an elite QB. I bet that if the Steelers would have hired Raheem Morris, that they would have a pretty similar record.

What's with the timeout at 2:04? At 3rd and 7, they can pass or run now. Let that run the whole way down to the 2 minute mark.

And it looks like Leftwich is out at least this upcoming week, meaning that it's Charlie Batch or bust.

And the greater point is that Tomlin's teams seem to lay eggs vs some seriously inferior competition. We lost to the Raiders and Titans this year! We had to play about 65 minutes to beat the Chiefs. With an aging team it would be nice to utterly destroy some of these teams that should be defeated easily.

You're spoiled. For this comment, you should be required to follow a Mike Singletary coached team for several seasons.

[Coffee Warlord]

I am not entertained.

[cuervo72]

Alex Smith just might get Wally Pipped tonight.

Heh. I just posted about the same on FB.

[Coffee Warlord]

Calling it now. Blowout 49ers. When the Bears look this lost, Lovie doesn't know how to recover/adapt. They're unprepared and bad tonight.

[EagleFan]

Calling it now. Blowout 49ers. When the Bears look this lost, Lovie doesn't know how to recover/adapt. They're unprepared and bad tonight.

Don't call it yet, Florida may recount...

[korme]

Statracker on Yahoo is faster than ESPN's coverage.

Stat tracker said 9ers were up 17-0, with the ball on Chicago's 7 yard line.

On TV, Bears had the ball, and about 3 plays later, Campbell gets picked off in his own territory.

[EagleFan]

You might want to hit the Live button on your remote...

[EagleFan]

That was nice of the Bears to call that timeout to keep the 49ers from getting a delay of game. ;)

[Abe Sargent]

This really is the best game of thew weekend!

[Vince, Pt. II]

Kaepernick has no concept of ball security when he runs. I'm nervous every time he pulls the ball down.

[EagleFan]

lol, that was awesome. Sacked him with his own lineman.

[Coffee Warlord]

lol, that was awesome. Sacked him with his own lineman.

Ladies and gentlemen, the stellar play of J'Marcus Webb.

[Jas_lov]

Why doesn't ESPN fight harder for MNF flex scheduling? They could get a more limited set of rules than SNF but still avoid dreadful matchups like next week's Carolina at Philly. Even with the Thanksgiving games there are a couple good ones they could take.

[EagleFan]

Don't get me started on Thaksgiving Day games. They should be rotated anyway. Used to love watching Barry Sanders on Thanksgiving Day as it was the only real time I got to watch him back then. No reason to watch the Lions year after year at this point and really tired of watching the Cow****ers every year.

[Glengoyne]

So pushing a player from behind, or two hand touch is now illegal in the NFL.

The refs get partial credit for that bears TD.

[Vince, Pt. II]

That play was a perfect microcosm of this entire game.

[Glengoyne]

I think I'm the only one watching now, but the refs called that safety wrong three ways before they finally got it right after the review.

[Crapshoot]

This is great - I just worry about the Niners depth (especially on the D-line). I worry one injury to Aldon Smith or Justin Smith and this team is in big trouble; wish they had drafted a D-lineman to help give them depth instead of a RB with the 2nd round pick (luxury pick, but didn't need).

[kingfc22]

Just left the stick. Wow. Didn't see Kaep and company having the ability to smack around the Bears D.

Now if this team can only be more consistent from week to week...

[mauchow]

I think Kaepernick is more volatile and that volatility will give one team or the other the edge. Campbell has a much smaller performance range, IMO. It should be a low scoring game, but the Bears could easily win big or lose big depending on what goes on with Kaepernick.

I like how you covered all your bases here. Nice one!

[Danny]

I fuckin hated Cowher

It's obvious from reading your posts that you will hate every coach you ever have and want them fired regardless of who it actually is

[Honolulu_Blue]

Dola-

I suffered through years of shitty QBs....if we stick with Ben, we better be in it every year. Anything less than a deep playoff run is a failure. Once Ben is gone, it could be another decade of waiver retreads at QB.

A wittle steewers fan thinks he knows what "suffering" is!?!?

Awww... That's sooooo incredibly adorable!

/pats wittle stevew on his wittle head

[Lathum]

Steve reminds me of some of the people who drive BMWs and when they have to have it in the shop they get a Hyundai provided as a rental. be happy with the fact that 95% of the time you have a sweet ride and deal with the other times.

[Julio Riddols]

I like how you covered all your bases here. Nice one!

Yeah, I really didn't spell that out as well as I could have, heh. What I meant to say is that in a normal situation with Cutler and Smith playing, I would expect a close game in the mid to high teens. With Campbell and Kaepernick, I expected a blow out one way or the other. Kaepernick was either going to have a really good game, or a really bad game. No in between stuff.

[Crapshoot]

Frank Gore Blew Up Lance Briggs: Bears-49ers, In One GIF (http://deadspin.com/5962047/frank-gore-blew-up-lance-briggs-bears+49ers-in-one-gif)

Gore's a good runner, but his blocking is what makes him great. One example right here.

[MalcPow]

Well, I guess the reasonably nice thing is that there aren't many teams who can do what San Fran did and just go big and completely dominate the line of scrimmage offensively. Most (all?) other teams aren't built to do anything like that these days. But damn, that was a complete ass kicking.

[RainMaker]

Same ole Bears. As long as the organization lets Lovie trot out his old friends to run offenses that are a decade out-of-date, the team will never get over the hump.

[BillJasper]

Dola-

I suffered through years of shitty QBs....if we stick with Ben, we better be in it every year. Anything less than a deep playoff run is a failure. Once Ben is gone, it could be another decade of waiver retreads at QB.

Good thing a football team is entirely dependent on a single player.

[Alan T]

Man, you all are being rough on Steve.

I don't necessarily agree with him on Tomlin, but he isn't being any different than any of the rest of you that get critical when your team is not performing optimally, or one thing about the team is driving you crazy.

Remember all of those Patriots fans jumping off the bridges earlier this season?

[tucker rocky]

37 yr old Charlie Batch confirmed to start Sunday against the Browns

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000097799/article/charlie-batch-now-pittsburgh-steelers-starting-qb

Brian Hoyer, Mike Kafka on Pittsburgh Steelers backup QB list

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000097955/article/brian-hoyer-mike-kafka-on-pittsburgh-steelers-qb-list

[Suburban Rhythm]

37 yr old Charlie Batch confirmed to start Sunday against the Browns

Charlie Batch now Pittsburgh Steelers' starting QB - NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000097799/article/charlie-batch-now-pittsburgh-steelers-starting-qb)

Brian Hoyer, Mike Kafka on Pittsburgh Steelers backup QB list

Brian Hoyer, Mike Kafka on Pittsburgh Steelers' QB list - NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000097955/article/brian-hoyer-mike-kafka-on-pittsburgh-steelers-qb-list)

In a sick way, I almost want to see the Steelers lose. I have nothing personal against Batch, but the idiots around town were acting like he was some HOFer rotting on the bench.

If he wins a game for the Steelers, it will only fuel the cluelessness of people claiming "see, I told yinz! If we had started him against Baltimore, we woulda won!"

The same people were clamoring for Dennis Dixon to be brought in. The same Dennis Dixon who, when not re-signed by the Steelers, was bypassed for all of the about 100 QB jobs in the league. But somehow, he was clearly the answer.

If Batch fails, I look forward to the same nutjobs reminiscing about Brian St. Pierre.

[Suburban Rhythm]

DOLA

Dennis Dixon told Steelers he'd rather remain on Ravens' practice squad - Behind the Steel Curtain (http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2012/11/20/3670284/steelers-quarterback-search-depth-chart-dennis-dixon-options-week-12-injury-report)

Former Steelers quarterback has been linked to the back-up position open in Pittsburgh, but a report says he told the team he'd rather stay in Baltimore.

Bitterness, perhaps? Maybe just simple familiarity with an offense?
CBSSports.com reporter Jason La Canfora noted (https://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/status/270721709219385344) former Steelers (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/pittsburgh-steelers) quarterback Dennis Dixon (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/34443/dennis-dixon) was approached about the back-up opening in Pittsburgh, but he told the team he'd rather stay on Baltimore's practice squad (https://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/status/270721709219385344)

[gstelmack]

Why doesn't ESPN fight harder for MNF flex scheduling? They could get a more limited set of rules than SNF but still avoid dreadful matchups like next week's Carolina at Philly. Even with the Thanksgiving games there are a couple good ones they could take.

Moving a game a couple of hours inside a day is one thing, but I think you'd have problems switching days a few days before the game, with people already having made travel plans or whatever to come to the game. The NFL still cares greatly about folks actually coming to the games, it's not just about TV.

[Honolulu_Blue]

In a sick way, I almost want to see the Steelers lose. I have nothing personal against Batch, but the idiots around town were acting like he was some HOFer rotting on the bench.

To give those idiots around town the benefit of the doubt, perhaps they all just played a lot of FOF 2.

[Matthean]

Man, you all are being rough on Steve.

I'm pretty sure it's stupid crap like this that raises people's level of irk in regards to him.

Looks like the wittle wions send Titus Young Sr. home for the week with no dinner before bed and no recess.

Yes, the Lions are a NFL laughing stock. Their fans don't need to be reminded on a weekly basis in a childish internet troll like manner. All the more so from somebody who is a Cavs fan. You know, the NBA powerhouse that couldn't keep the best player they ever have had as he bolted near or at his prime.

[Julio Riddols]

I think Batch is clearly a better choice at QB over Leftwich, but that's just my opinion. Leftwich hasn't won a game since he left Jacksonville, which leads me to believe the game plan for stopping him is a lot easier to implement than one to stop Batch, who is 5-2 as a starter for Pittsburgh.

[Danny]

I have a feeling people won't mind Leftwich so much after they see a 37 year old Charlie Batch in there.

[Suburban Rhythm]

I think Batch is clearly a better choice at QB over Leftwich, but that's just my opinion. Leftwich hasn't won a game since he left Jacksonville, which leads me to believe the game plan for stopping him is a lot easier to implement than one to stop Batch, who is 5-2 as a starter for Pittsburgh.

I think Batch can win against Cleveland.

Against Baltimore, Leftwich at least gave the threat of a downfirld game (see opening play DPI call). Batch is going to get rid of the ball on 5 step drops, no more than 7 yards downfield. Baltimore could have packed in everyone within 10 yards of the LOS.

Of those 5 wins, 2 are in the last 3 seasons. Against Tampa, week 3 of 2010 during Roethlisbergers suspension. And last year in a meaningless game against the Rams.

Both those loses are against Baltimore, including week 4 of 2010.

I have a feeling people won't mind Leftwich so much after they see a 37 year old Charlie Batch in there.

It's probably not a wide gap between the two. With as many teams that could use even competent QB play, the fact neither gets a sniff as even a 1B, Matt Hasselbeck type speaks volumes.

It's the insistence by some of yinzer nation that Batch is clearly superior that's silly. The unknown is always better, because it hasn't underachieved yet.