Beware the Fat Man in Red (Game Over: Village Wins!)

[EagleFan]

Giving this a one time shot. If we get enough signups the game will begin Monday the 10th.

Welcome to the Christmas gathering from hell. What started as a great reunion has turned into terror as the Fat Man in Red and his evil minions have begun killing off those at the party.

He truly is a mystical creature and is able to blend into a crowd as he waits for the right time to strike (or for one of his minions to do his dirty work).


Standard WW rules apply. I will update the rules/roles over the next couple days.

[EagleFan]

General Rules

Deadline: 11:00 PM EST - 11:00 good, 11:01 late (I will try to get as close to this as possible; I will be working night shift during this trip so I will be online but will have to work in the write ups when I have a spare moment)

Tie: Have a tie vote and find out what it is.... I dare you :devil:

PM: No direct quoting from your PM. Villagers will be told "You are a vanilla Villager" in their PM

Order of night action: BG protect in place; WW night kill; scans

[EagleFan]

Roles

Non-believer - You don't believe in the Fat Man in Red and have the ability to see those who do believe. Since you are the only non-believer anyone else that you see as a non-believer must not be on your side. Once a night you may scan one person to see if they are a believer.

Selfless Believer - You want nothing more than to see everyone else have a great holiday season. You may submit an order to protect one person each night. You may self protect but not protect the same person on consecutive nights. If you guard the person who will be making the kill that night there will be no kill. If that person is the Fat Man in Red you will be killed that night and he will lose his brutal ability.

Super Believer - You are so filled with the spirit of the season that you are a believer of the Fat Man in Red. Your dedication gives you the ability to sway the vote once during the game.

Fat Man in Red - You used to give everyone what they wanted during the holiday season but you have heard your last whining spoiled brat and can't take another complaint. Time has come for you to unleash your fury on the unsuspecting masses. You must make a kill every other night for your team (either the odd or the even nights). The other nights someone from your team will make the kill, someone that you select.

Elves - Minions of the Fat Man in Red

Sceptic - You always are accused of ruining the season for everyone. You will find out who the evil team is and you want to see everyone punished for their beliefs so you want the evil team to win. You count as a "villager" for win condition totals but you win/lose with the "wolves".

[EagleFan]

Signups

1) JAG
2) GoldenEagle - Non-believer (day two brutal)
3) britrock88 - Super Believer (night two kill)
4) DaddyTorgo
5) Zinto
6) Abe Sargent
7) CrimsonFox - Fat Man in Red (day two duking)
8) Simbo Klice - vanilla villager (day one lynch)
9) Autumn - Elf (day three lynch)
10) Chief Rum
11) mauboy1

[JAG]

In.

[GoldenEagle]

In.

[britrock88]

In.

[DaddyTorgo]

Sure - In. Why the hell not.

[Zinto]

In, hopefully we can get some sign ups for this game

[EagleFan]

Good start so far, hopefully I have to add many more numbers to the signup list.

[Abe Sargent]

LOLOLOL

I was thinking about posting rules today for the next WW to see what we could do, and I spent a hour fixing my rules for my next game.


IN

[CrimsonFox]

Ho Ho Ho-in!

[CrimsonFox]

note, doing a quick move tomorrow and working downtown (as Santa, by coincidence) So this week is sketchy

[Simbo Klice]

Let's do this. In.

[Autumn]

Nobody told me you guys were sneaking around starting a werewolf game!

In.

[Autumn]

This could break the record for signups in 2012!

[EagleFan]

Nobody told me you guys were sneaking around starting a werewolf game!

In.

I distracted you with the draft thread.... ;)

[EagleFan]

Oh, as an FYI. I am waiting to find out what my schedule will be like next week to determine the schedule for the game.

I have a last minute work trip. I will have down time to run the game, just a matter of when it will be and if I will be working days or nights.

[Autumn]

I distracted you with the draft thread.... ;)

Now I have to log in!

[britrock88]

Please, let's not stall at 9...

[Chief Rum]

I'll play, but, FYI, my time will be pretty limited.

[Autumn]

Time limited, in the holiday season? Look who just outed himself as Santa.

[EagleFan]

Time limited, in the holiday season? Look who just outed himself as Santa.

CF already outed himself as Santa. ;)

[Autumn]

That I'll never believe.

[mauchow]

i'll play too. just to spice it up a bit

[Jacob Typer]

Hmmmm....


This looks interesting. Let's see how things play out though, cause I'm sooo busy in the holidays with family and such.

[EagleFan]

I'll take signups until early Sunday evening when I'll send out the roles.

[Autumn]

Sunday, Sunday, Sunday!

[EagleFan]

Sending out roles, signups are over.

[EagleFan]

CrimsonFox needs to make space in his inbox. Then I can sinish sending out the roles and the game can begin.

[Autumn]

Ah, it's just like old times.

[CrimsonFox]

yup :)

[EagleFan]

Now that everyone has received their Roles, or lack there of, the game is on.

[EagleFan]

Going to be mostly unavailable until sometime tomorrow evening; fly out tomorrow morning and don't arrive until early evening. May sign on in the Houston airport during my layover to catch up.

[Abe Sargent]

I'm here like Flynn....wait, that's not how it goes....

[britrock88]

From the BG description...
"If you guard the person who will be making the kill that night there will be no kill. If that person is the Fat Man in Red you will be killed that night and he will lose his brutal ability."

This makes me think there won't be role reveals when people die; otherwise, the Fat Man will in all likelihood be wearing a target the next day.

[britrock88]

(yay, werewolf!)

[Simbo Klice]

Checking in, it's good to be playing Werewolf at FOFC again! What's it been, 5 months?

[Simbo Klice]

From the BG description...
"If you guard the person who will be making the kill that night there will be no kill. If that person is the Fat Man in Red you will be killed that night and he will lose his brutal ability."

This makes me think there won't be role reveals when people die; otherwise, the Fat Man will in all likelihood be wearing a target the next day.

I don't know, unless the bodyguard mentions his target beforehand it doesn't sound like that would "out" the Fat Man... And that still leaves the possibility that the bodyguard was actually targeted for a kill, not killed because of who he targeted.

[CrimsonFox]

who;s Flynn? I didn't see that listed in the roles. Oh yeah, in.

[Chief Rum]

Wuzzup, peeps?

[Autumn]

Glad to see us rolling again, this is exciting!

And yeah, Britrock, I don't think the bodyguard dying will tell us anything unless he left a clue about who he was targeting. But I hadn't really noticed that detail on a first read - the BG is basically a slut and a bodyguard all in one. That helps us out some, since he doesn't hurt the village roles.

[Autumn]

So 11 people. Assuming all roles in game we have Seer, BG, Duke vs. Santa, some number of elves, and Skeptic.

One elf would give us 9-2 to start, with one of the nine being on the bad side and knowing the bad guys, so I can't imagine there's more than one elf. So five vanillas and four roled villagers. The Skeptic will most likely cost us a lynch at some point, so we've really got to try our best to get a wolf by tomorrow at least.

[Abe Sargent]

Morning folks,!

[GoldenEagle]

I am checking in. Hopefully I will be active today, or as active as one can be on Day 1.

It is good to have WW back!

[Abe Sargent]

Yay WW is back. Now let's talk of votes and lynches

[Abe Sargent]

Okay, I'll be the first one to cast a stone. Until I get more information, as a placeholder, I am rolling my trusty d12. I will vote for whoever I roll, and if I get a 12 then I won;t vote for anyone just yet. Yes, if I roll myself I will vote for myself, it's only fair. here we go.....






It's a 9!



Vote Autumn


Sorry, the die forced me to!


At least you are here though

[Autumn]

You don't have an 11-sided die and you call yourself a roleplayer? Pfft.

[Autumn]

I'll throw a vote out there on someone I like to get talking early.

<b>Vote DaddyTorgo</b>

[JAG]

Vote GoldenEagle

Howdy. Nothing much in the rules that hasn't already been discussed as I can see it, other than me wondering if the sceptic could be scanned as non-believer by the seer (the wording in the description leaves some wiggle room, though a cultist isn't usually scanned as evil by a seer).

[JAG]

Oh, and it's a later than usual deadline but coincidentally my schedule is also later these days, so it should work out well.

[JAG]

I am also pleased not to be captain this game.

[JAG]

Is this mic on?

[JAG]

Day 1 voting as of Post 54:

1 Autumn - Abe Sargent (47)
1 DaddyTorgo - Autumn (49)
1 GoldenEagle - JAG (50)

[Chief Rum]

Hey, has JAG checked in yet?

[Abe Sargent]

I'm about to vote for JAG for too many dolas in an 11 person game. :)

[JAG]

I went an hour and a half between some of those posts.

[Abe Sargent]

Hey, you can explain it away any way you want man.

[DaddyTorgo]

Game on. Vanilla-villager style mofo's!

[DaddyTorgo]

Silly me. I didn't realize it was a midday deadline.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'll throw a vote out there on someone I like to get talking early.

Vote DaddyTorgo

Hey - what did you want to talk about man?

Do you like to get me talking because I'm insightful? :eek:

[Autumn]

Yes. Who are the wolves?

[Zinto]

Hello everyone! I have exams this week, so I won't be on during the day much and I will not be back until six or seven tonight.

[Abe Sargent]

heya Zinty!

[DaddyTorgo]

Yes. Who are the wolves?

GoldenEagle and Simbo are the wolves.

[Autumn]

Thanks.

[Autumn]

I'm heading out for a couple hours. But since DT has cracked the case, it shouldn't matter.

[JAG]

GoldenEagle and Simbo are the wolves.

I'm off to a good voting record!

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm heading out for a couple hours. But since DT has cracked the case, it shouldn't matter.

:D

[Abe Sargent]

I'll be afk for a few hours


miss me while im gone

[CrimsonFox]

Our new players aren't new anymore. So... :)

Vote Simbo

[CrimsonFox]

GoldenEagle and Simbo are the wolves.


wow that was easy!

[Danny]

Very glad a game not going. Work is too busy for the next week for me to play. but maybe we can get some momentum and get another game after this one.

[CrimsonFox]

Hey it's Danny.
Vote Dann...oh wait. DAMNIT!

[CrimsonFox]

ho hum...

[britrock88]

I am also pleased not to be captain this game.

:D

Spawn 4 was SO MUCH FUN.

Love,
A spawn

[Zinto]

Well I am back a little earlier then I thought and I did great on my exam if anyone was wondering :)

[Zinto]

Hmm so we are sitting on four people voted for currently and it is about time to get some second votes on people so I have decided to be the jerk who does that and I will vote...

Vote Autumn

[Autumn]

Jerk.

[Autumn]

Checking in, going to take care of dinner and kids and then I'll be back.

[Simbo Klice]

Well I am back a little earlier then I thought and I did great on my exam if anyone was wondering :)

Congrats!

Well, I'm back around and will be until deadline. Nothing so far has piqued my interest in terms of looking scummy. Normally don't like when people claim to use dice or rng's to get a "random" vote, but after reading Abe's dynasties I really don't put it past him to do that.

Still, with a vote on my name it's in my best interests to find some reason to put a vote on someone so:

vote GoldenEagle

[Abe Sargent]

Your Abe has returned from his excursion. I walked to a local shopping center about a mile away. shopped at a food store, went to Wendy's and ate dinner and read half of a book for class, then left and walked back. It was wet earlier today but a good termpreature and I felt adventurous.

[GoldenEagle]

Nothing much going on, other than DT giving weird reverse wolf vibes. I will hold off voting for now and see what develops in the next four hours or so.

[Chief Rum]

Where best to hide as a wolf than out in the open? ;)

VOTE DADDY TORGO

[Autumn]

reverse wolf vibes? You mean he sounds like a villager?

[Abe Sargent]

Nothing much going on, other than DT giving weird reverse wolf vibes. I will hold off voting for now and see what develops in the next four hours or so.

How so?

[britrock88]

Might I suggest we use Day 1 (which I find to be useless in most instances) to find out what happens with a tied vote?

[Autumn]

Might I suggest we use Day 1 (which I find to be useless in most instances) to find out what happens with a tied vote?

The mod dares you to do it, and you think it's a good idea? Oh man.

[Simbo Klice]

I'm not opposed to looking DT's way; he's either a vanilla villager or he's lying!

[Zinto]

I am not that interested in finding out what happens in a tie hopefully we won't ever need to know. A worse case scenario for us would be that both the top two are villagers and both get lynched.

And if we are orchestrating a tie, I think we limit some of the information we could potentially get out of the day one vote.

[Zinto]

I believe that Mau is the only person who has not checked in at this point so hopefully he shows up at some point today.

[britrock88]

2 Autumn - Abe Sargent (47), Zinto (78)
2 DaddyTorgo - Autumn (49), Chief Rum (84)
2 GoldenEagle - JAG (50), Simbo Klice (81)
1 Simbo Klice - CrimsonFox (71)

[Abe Sargent]

Does DT giving off wierd revrese wolf vibes mean he seems like the Cultist, or is that a cute way of saying a villager.

[Autumn]

I am not that interested in finding out what happens in a tie hopefully we won't ever need to know. A worse case scenario for us would be that both the top two are villagers and both get lynched.

And if we are orchestrating a tie, I think we limit some of the information we could potentially get out of the day one vote.

Well worse case is probably that someone random gets killed and it turns out to be the seer. Or both tie votes get killed and one has a role but doesn't tell us for some reason. These things happen. And yes, if we orchestrate a tie we don't get vote history. I never see a good reason to work for a tie. There's always someone who will break it anyway, and that just confuses the issue.

[britrock88]

Okey doke. All points well taken; carry on.

[Autumn]

More to the point, can one give off weird vibes in five posts, one of which is a smiley face?

[JAG]

More to the point, can one give off weird vibes in five posts, one of which is a smiley face?

Big difference between :) and :D.

[britrock88]

Vote GoldenEagle

To break the tie.

[britrock88]

2 Autumn - Abe Sargent (47), Zinto (78)
2 DaddyTorgo - Autumn (49), Chief Rum (84)
3 GoldenEagle - JAG (50), Simbo Klice (81), britrock88 (98)
1 Simbo Klice - CrimsonFox (71)

[Autumn]

Still need three votes. Come on folks.

[Autumn]

Big difference between :) and :D.

I don't even know how to make those. Well, now that I quoted this, I do.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm not opposed to looking DT's way; he's either a vanilla villager or he's lying!

that's some reasoning there...

VOTE SIMBO KLICE

[Simbo Klice]

that's some reasoning there...

VOTE SIMBO KLICE



Hey, if you want to claim vanilla in your first post, you have to be ready to be treated like a vanilla. I'm simply saying it presents the least amount of risk to lose a power role by lynching you. Or that you were lying right off the bat, which is a bad way to start off if you're hoping to gain the town's trust.

[Simbo Klice]

I'm about to go to the gym, should be back by 11. Gonna do this just in case.

change vote DaddyTorgo

[britrock88]

2 Autumn - Abe Sargent (47), Zinto (78)
3 DaddyTorgo - Autumn (49), Chief Rum (84), Simbo Klice (104 - if it counts)
2 GoldenEagle - JAG (50), britrock88 (98)
2 Simbo Klice - CrimsonFox (71), DaddyTorgo (102)

[Autumn]

I'm not sure that will count without an unvote, Simbo.

[britrock88]

If it doesn't count:

2 Autumn - Abe Sargent (47), Zinto (78)
2 DaddyTorgo - Autumn (49), Chief Rum (84)
3 GoldenEagle - JAG (50), Simbo Klice (81), britrock88 (98)
2 Simbo Klice - CrimsonFox (71), DaddyTorgo (102)

[britrock88]

Quiet night...

[EagleFan]

As of Post 108:

2 Autumn - Abe Sargent (47), Zinto (78)
2 DaddyTorgo - Autumn (49), Chief Rum (84)
3 GoldenEagle - JAG (50), Simbo Klice (81), britrock88 (98)
2 Simbo Klice - CrimsonFox (71), DaddyTorgo (102)

[Zinto]

Well I am off to work so I will not be moving my vote.

[EagleFan]

Snow is falling, there is a chill in the air. You hear the distant sound of sleigh bells ringing in the night. Then you notice that they sound different for some reason. Something doesn't seem right.

But then you hear carolers singing Very Quiet Evening, Look Said the Winged Cherubs, The Slightly Diminutive Bongo Tot and everyone's favorite She Saw Grandma Blowing The Fat Man in Red. Everything seems right again.

[britrock88]

I can't stand The Slightly Diminutive Bongo Tot.

[DaddyTorgo]

I know I'm vanilla. I wonder if that's actually Simbo's way of trying to hide the fact that he put in an early vote on his fellow wolf?

Or maybe he didn't realize he had to unvote/vote? Pondering a self-vote to respect his intentions...

[Autumn]

I'm not sure why he would switch to DT "just in case". I don't think a wolf voting on a wolf messes up an unvote like that though. I don't care for one candidate over another at this point, but like having a close vote so we can watch for movement. If I move it will be out of self defense or to break a tie.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm not sure why he would switch to DT "just in case". I don't think a wolf voting on a wolf messes up an unvote like that though. I don't care for one candidate over another at this point, but like having a close vote so we can watch for movement. If I move it will be out of self defense or to break a tie.

Yeah - I dunno - it made more sense in my paranoid, WW-gamey brain then it does once typed out.

[DaddyTorgo]

Autumn and JAG in thread, along with me.

[JAG]

Can't say I see much reason to switch my vote around. Assuming GE shows up, he'll presumably tie things up with someone. And mau will do something mau-like if he appears.

[GoldenEagle]

VOTE DADDY TORGO

This is your obvious self preservation vote.

[DaddyTorgo]

UNVOTE SIMBO KLICE
VOTE GOLDEN EAGLE

[GoldenEagle]

Fine. I will switch my vote to Simbo if you will.

[DaddyTorgo]

Trying hard to stay alive eh GE?

[GoldenEagle]

Trying hard to stay alive eh GE?

Why wouldn't I? That is the point of the game. I didn't want vote for Simbo since he didn't vote for me. But I will put my money where my mouth is. You said you had a vibe for him.

UNVOTE DADDY TORGO

VOTE SIMBO KLICE

[DaddyTorgo]

I didn't have a vibe, was just joking around. There were basically no posts to get a vibe from at that point.

[Abe Sargent]

The vote count is confusing me

[Abe Sargent]

Has everyone voted now?

[GoldenEagle]

Damn it. This sucks.

I am behind 4-2. I am the seer and I have to out myself on a random day 1 vote.

[DaddyTorgo]

I think Mau is still to vote and GE is up by 1 over Kimbo?

[Abe Sargent]

So GE has four votes and everyone else 2?

[DaddyTorgo]

UNVOTE GOLDEN EAGLE
VOTE SIMBO KLICE

[DaddyTorgo]

someone else on an unvote plz

[Abe Sargent]

unvote Autumn
'vote Simbo

[JAG]

Other than mau, who is a no-show. I think it's GE - 4, Simbo 2, Autumn 2, DT 2

[Abe Sargent]

That shouldl pull GE Off

[JAG]

Unvote GE

[DaddyTorgo]

On the plus side, you should get at least 1 scan in and get the results to us GE.

Unless Abe/JAG are a wolf and are changing their kill now (they're in thread)

[DaddyTorgo]

dola - or myself (to be fair and fully transparent)

[Abe Sargent]

Well, that's deadline, whew. Faster Day 1 than normal there

[DaddyTorgo]

deadline

[Abe Sargent]

deadline

Once again, beatne to the punch!

[DaddyTorgo]

Once again, beatne to the punch!

Nope - you beat me

[Autumn]

Got caught up in something and missed the deadline, so I'll have to reread this and see what hapepned there.

[EagleFan]

deadline

[Autumn]

Wow, first read I totally missed GE's reveal. I guess it would have been more obvious at the time. Did we get enough votes off him?

[EagleFan]

This look right?

2 Autumn - Abe Sargent (47), Zinto (78)
2 DaddyTorgo - Autumn (49), Chief Rum (84)
2 GoldenEagle - Simbo Klice (81), britrock88 (98)
4 Simbo Klice - CrimsonFox (71), DaddyTorgo (102), GoldenEagle (122), DaddyTorgo (129)

[EagleFan]

Whoops, missed Abe's switch. 5 for Kimbo.

[Autumn]

Oh good. Well, unless GE was lying and Simbo's the seer. ;-)

[Abe Sargent]

Whoops, missed Abe's switch. 5 for Kimbo.

It's four unless DT counts twice for some reason....


:)

[EagleFan]

After much discussion and sudden change of mind you decide that Simbo Klice must be the evil among you. You question him over and over and come up with nothing. Finally you can take no more, he must be the cause of this evil and the reason that you are not getting that new iPad for the Holiday.

You off Simbo Klice and find that he is...

[EagleFan]

... a vanilla villager

(sorry, saw someone mention a no reveal theory :devil:)

[Autumn]

Could have been better, could have been worse. Now the real question ...

[EagleFan]

You don't know what to think as daybreak comes and you realize that everyone is still among you, everyone except for poor Simbo that is.

[EagleFan]

Day Two Has Begun!!!!

HO HO HO!!!!!!

[Abe Sargent]

...whether or not GE is who he says he is? Well, i guess we'll find out soon enough.


Still, teh right D1 ply iwth a reveal for seer is to move off that person

[Abe Sargent]

You don't know what to think as daybreak comes and you realize that everyone is still among you, everyone except for poor Simbo that is.

No death?


Bodyguard block?

[EagleFan]

Day two results may be late. That will be the first night of the Go Live so I may be tied up if there are any major issues going on but will do my best to get it done as close to time as possible.

[Abe Sargent]

So with no night one kill, because Simbo was lynched, that looks like a successful BG block, which indicates to me that GE is likely the seer, no lie. The wolves went after him, and they BG blocked.

[DaddyTorgo]

Disagree on that interpertation Abe. At least the GE/BG thing.

The only people on after GE's reveal were the people I noted in the thread. So IF you want to go by your interpertation then you're saying that of those people who were on, there was 1 wolf, 1 BG, and 1 seer among the 4 people on. I'd find that to be unusual.

I think it's maybe more likely that we lucked into a random BG-block elsewhere.

[Abe Sargent]

Disagree on that interpertation Abe. At least the GE/BG thing.

The only people on after GE's reveal were the people I noted in the thread. So IF you want to go by your interpertation then you're saying that of those people who were on, there was 1 wolf, 1 BG, and 1 seer among the 4 people on. I'd find that to be unusual.

I think it's maybe more likely that we lucked into a random BG-block elsewhere.



yeah, that's a fair point. I forgot about the quick turnaround for the night. I was using normal WW analysis - thanks.

[Abe Sargent]

Well, my first vote for today is easy



vote mauboy

[britrock88]

Wow. I need to remember that I live in Central Time now.

[Autumn]

I suppose you're right DT. I was about to say the same thing as Abe. But I don't like to place too much emphasis on who was seen in thread. But it definitely didn't seem like a lot of people were here.

However, not losing the seer, and getting a block day one is pretty good results. In this small a game even one result is going to be helpful.

[GoldenEagle]

I scanned Zinto. He is good.

[britrock88]

Do we know how the Skeptic shows up on a scan?

[GoldenEagle]

Reading the rules, is it possible he BG actually guarded the person who was supposed to be making the kill?

[Autumn]

I thought that only worked with Santa, and then he'd be dead? The BG that is.

[britrock88]

GE's right if an Elf attempted the kill, and Autumn's right if Santa attempted the kill. So maybe the BG did pick an (the?) Elf.

[britrock88]

My best Narc impression:

time post voter votee #
10:13 47 Abe Autumn 1
10:29 49 Autumn DT 1
10:33 50 JAG GE 1
15:20 71 CF Simbo 1
16:43 78 Zinto Autumn 2
16:49 81 Simbo GE 2
18:25 84 CR DT 2
19:41 98 brit GE 3
19:52 102 DT Simbo 2
21:42 118 GE DT 3
21:45 119 DT xSimbo 1
GE 4
21:50 122 GE xDT 2
Simbo 2
21:56 129 DT xGE 3
Simbo 3
21:57 131 Abe xAutumn 1
Simbo 4
21:57 134 JAG xGE 2

[britrock88]

To keep the pressure on a big player yesterday...

vote DaddyTorgo

[Autumn]

Do we know how the Skeptic shows up on a scan?

Oh and regarding this, the skeptic should show up like a villager.

[Abe Sargent]

night all

[CrimsonFox]

back from work. Sorry. I work late shift.

Sorry Simbo. Didn't mean to start a run on you. At least you are in the 1st day club now. Happy times!

So BG blcok was it?

[CrimsonFox]

My best Narc impression:

time post voter votee #
10:13 47 Abe Autumn 1
10:29 49 Autumn DT 1
10:33 50 JAG GE 1
15:20 71 CF Simbo 1
16:43 78 Zinto Autumn 2
16:49 81 Simbo GE 2
18:25 84 CR DT 2
19:41 98 brit GE 3
19:52 102 DT Simbo 2
21:42 118 GE DT 3
21:45 119 DT xSimbo 1
GE 4
21:50 122 GE xDT 2
Simbo 2
21:56 129 DT xGE 3
Simbo 3
21:57 131 Abe xAutumn 1
Simbo 4
21:57 134 JAG xGE 2



Very poor imitation of Narcizo. LIke a knockoff halloween costume as opposed to the real thing.

[CrimsonFox]

Not a thing to do

But talk to you

[CrimsonFox]

We're all alright!
We're all alright!

[CrimsonFox]

I think this is the first Abe/DT game I have ever seen.

[JAG]

So here is where everyone's initial votes were yesterday (pre-reveal and DT vote swap to Simbo), assuming GE isn't lying for purposes of below colors for both he and Zinto:


2 Autumn - Abe Sargent (47), Zinto (78)
3 DaddyTorgo - Autumn (49), Chief Rum (84), GoldenEagle (122)
3 GoldenEagle - JAG (50), Simbo Klice (81), britrock88 (98)
2 Simbo Klice - CrimsonFox (71), DaddyTorgo (102),

[DaddyTorgo]

I think this is the first Abe/DT game I have ever seen.

Hmm? What do you mean?

[DaddyTorgo]

I think that was actually a very good D1 that tells us a bunch.

Presumed Good:
Abe
JAG
DT

Good
GE (unless he was ballsy and faked a seer reveal)
Kimbo
Zinto

So that means 2 of the following are wolfy

brit
CR
CF
mau

We have a 50% chance of hitting a wolf in that group. If we can avoid ending up on the BG and forcing a reveal we might even get another night's block out of it and wrap this thing up (BG guards GE, we get another night of GE scan). Worst case scenario we out the BG and end up with a list of 3 possible wolves and have a 66% shot at a wolf in that list.

[Autumn]

I must be out of practice because I don't understand a single thing in that post DT. Well, I get the Good category. But why are Abe, Jag and DT presumed good? And why am I not even on the list?

[Autumn]

Looking at the last second switches, I don't give DT plus or minus credit - he had incentive to start the switch to someone other than himself. I give Abe a plus for moving his vote, and JAG a plus also, though a half a minus for not voting for someone else.

I'm not going to give GE a ton of belief, as it would be a lock that a wolf would reveal seer in his circumstance. But obviously we're not going to vote him or Zinto at this point anyway. But if he's a fake, the real seer shouldn't wait any longer until next day to reveal.

Nothing stands out in the vote record, so I'll revisit posts before voting this morning.

[JAG]

I think it's maybe more likely that we lucked into a random BG-block elsewhere.

Whoever is the BG, that could be some valuable information because while it's possible they blocked an attack on a random villager, they might have guarded an elf who was sent to attack someone (like GE if he's telling the truth). That possibility may be unlikely as there are other reasons that could have happened (wolves didn't have time to switch kill order, wolves didn't get in a night kill, wolves sent Santa to do the kill instead of the elf), but something to think about anyway.

[DaddyTorgo]

I must be out of practice because I don't understand a single thing in that post DT. Well, I get the Good category. But why are Abe, Jag and DT presumed good? And why am I not even on the list?

Because we were on at deadline and yet the seer lived through the night. Not a definitive, as maybe there was a BG block on GE already setup, but a real strong lean IMO.

And you're not on the list because ummm...I glossed over your name this morning when writing that post because I hadn't had my morning caffeine and I was in a rush?

[JAG]

FWIW Autumn, I was working on vote count for a little while, then after I posted I saw there were a number of new posts, so I read back to see GE's reveal. I unvoted him so I could be sure not to leave a vote on him, then read back to see Simbo had an overwhelming lead and I didn't feel strongly enough to make a last second case for someone other than Simbo so my vote was going to be pointless. I don't think the unvotes by Abe or myself are that significant anyway if GE is who he claims, don't think a wolf would do anything other than what we did as it would draw major suspicion. In fact, if GE is lying, it looks worse for us.

[DaddyTorgo]

Evidence of Good:
Abe (on at deadline, no change in wolfy night kill)
JAG (on at deadline, no change in wolfy night kill)
DT (on at deadline, no change in wolfy night kill)

Good
GE (unless he was ballsy and faked a seer reveal)
Kimbo (dead villager)
Zinto (cleared by GE)

So that means 2 of the following are wolfy

brit
CR
CF
mau
autumn

[DaddyTorgo]

I don't see a reason to vote for someone other than someone in the bottom list, and since britrock opened the day with a quick vote on me to "keep the pressure on someone who was active on d1" i'm going there for now.

VOTE BRITROCK

[Autumn]

FWIW Autumn, I was working on vote count for a little while, then after I posted I saw there were a number of new posts, so I read back to see GE's reveal. I unvoted him so I could be sure not to leave a vote on him, then read back to see Simbo had an overwhelming lead and I didn't feel strongly enough to make a last second case for someone other than Simbo so my vote was going to be pointless. I don't think the unvotes by Abe or myself are that significant anyway if GE is who he claims, don't think a wolf would do anything other than what we did as it would draw major suspicion. In fact, if GE is lying, it looks worse for us.

I only gave you half a negative because yeah, I would probably do the same thing in a hurry, just to be sure. But since it also takes away a bit of info, you get half neg.

I don't think the switches are worth much, but it was last second enough that a wolf could get away with not moving it and just not posting until later, so I think it's worth a little. In a small game in that situation as a wolf I might just feign ignorance and hope to slip by.

[Autumn]

Has mauboy even checked in?

[Autumn]

I'm going to go with someone who has been abnormally quiet, and hasn't gotten any votes yet. And I do this even knowing that any time I vote for CF he becomes absolutely certain I'm a wolf. Bold move. I think it's good to get another good selection of candidates though.

<b>VOTE CRIMSONFOX</b>

[Abe Sargent]

Morning all

[Abe Sargent]

That's a lot of activity from yesterday and some good analysis this morning lads

[britrock88]

Very poor imitation of Narcizo. LIke a knockoff halloween costume as opposed to the real thing.

:(

[Chief Rum]

When it comes to WW, excuses matter little, but FWIW, I was at work last night when GE's reveal happened and when the deadline went down. Of course, my vote was on DT, so that didn't have much impact. But thought I would put that out there.

I have read the morning's analysis, but I admit, I haven't yet digested it and understood it. I'll re-read and if I have anything new, I'll give my thoughts.

The one thing I read that I would agree with is that we shouldn't rush to presume GE is innocent. As noted, revealing as seer would be an obvious wolf move, especially on Day One when it's way too soon for the seer himself (if it isn't GE) to out himself for the sake of catching the false revelation.

I think it has been mentioned as well, but just in case anyone hasn't focused on it, we should also consider a BG block in light of possibly stopping a kill by "guarding" a wolf. It's not yet proven that the BG even guarded a potential victim.

[Chief Rum]

:(

I thought it was terrific, britrock.

CF was just disappointed he didn't step into the Narcizo role before you did. :p

[DaddyTorgo]

Yeah - I think CF just misses Narcizo and was joking around with you.

[GoldenEagle]

We are getting into some meta-game territory here.

[britrock88]

time post voter votee #
22:57 159 Abe mauboy 1
23:21 168 brit DT 1
09:14 185 DT brit 1
09:26 188 Autumn CF 1

1 mauboy - Abe (159)
1 DT - britrock (168)
1 britrock - DT (185)
1 CF - Autumn (188)

[Chief Rum]

We are getting into some meta-game territory here.

Where?

[britrock88]

I'll get around to putting the top part in code later...

[Chief Rum]

Hmm, curious questions upon re-readign the rules.

Questions for EagleFan:

1. Does the Fat Man have PM rights with his Elves?
2. Do we know if the Fat Man when he chooses a target and the Elf doing the killing, if he does it all himself or does the Elf in question have to submit a kill order?
3. Silly question, but do the Fat Man and Elves who the others are?
4. Do either of them know who the Sceptic is?
5. What happens if the Sceptic is attacked?
6. The rules state that the Sceptic "will find out who the evil team is". Is this information given to the Sceptic at the start of the game or does he learn it sometime during the course of the game, maybe at a certain time/day, or under certain conditions?

[Autumn]

Where?

I think he's talking about the fact that people are basing votes on who was in thread at deadline.

[DaddyTorgo]

I think he's talking about the fact that people are basing votes on who was in thread at deadline.

I firmly disagree that this is meta-game.

Meta-game would be "so and so got a ping on off topic forum that their Inbox was full" or something like that.

Noting who is present and available to participate at any given point (particularly key points) is hardly meta-game.

[Chief Rum]

I think he's talking about the fact that people are basing votes on who was in thread at deadline.

Oh, okay, yeah, that is meta-gamey.

[Chief Rum]

I firmly disagree that this is meta-game.

Meta-game would be "so and so got a ping on off topic forum that their Inbox was full" or something like that.

Noting who is present and available to participate at any given point (particularly key points) is hardly meta-game.

If they post, yes. If you just see them in the forum, not so much.

[DaddyTorgo]

If they post, yes. If you just see them in the forum, not so much.

If you see them looking at the thread - that's not meta-gamey. It's the online equivelent of having your eyes open (if you were playing the game in person) while you're still allowed to.

[EagleFan]

Hmm, curious questions upon re-readign the rules.

Questions for EagleFan:

1. Does the Fat Man have PM rights with his Elves?
2. Do we know if the Fat Man when he chooses a target and the Elf doing the killing, if he does it all himself or does the Elf in question have to submit a kill order?
3. Silly question, but do the Fat Man and Elves who the others are?
4. Do either of them know who the Sceptic is?
5. What happens if the Sceptic is attacked?
6. The rules state that the Sceptic "will find out who the evil team is". Is this information given to the Sceptic at the start of the game or does he learn it sometime during the course of the game, maybe at a certain time/day, or under certain conditions?

All good questions for discussion after the game is over. :)

Think of it like most normal WW games.

[EagleFan]

If you see them looking at the thread - that's not meta-gamey. It's the online equivelent of having your eyes open (if you were playing the game in person) while you're still allowed to.

Except in the forum the name could show at the bottom just because someone walked away from their PC with the window still open. It's no real sign that the person is actually in thread. There have been plenty of games that I have been playing in where I opened a thread with intention of reading it and then got called away by RL in some manner and left the window open for later when I got back (which could be minutes or hours).

[CrimsonFox]

Hmm? What do you mean?


That I've never seen you and Abe in a game together before.

[CrimsonFox]

I thought it was terrific, britrock.

CF was just disappointed he didn't step into the Narcizo role before you did. :p


yeah that's it. I'm jealous.
_I_ wanted to be Narcizo.

[CrimsonFox]

I firmly disagree that this is meta-game.

Meta-game would be "so and so got a ping on off topic forum that their Inbox was full" or something like that.

Noting who is present and available to participate at any given point (particularly key points) is hardly meta-game.


agreed. It has been proven time and again (at least to me) that such info doesn't amount to a crock of beans. Every time I think someone is wolfy just because I see them in thread and not posting, I am totally wrong. And usually it is about Chief :)

[CrimsonFox]

I'm going to go with someone who has been abnormally quiet, and hasn't gotten any votes yet. And I do this even knowing that any time I vote for CF he becomes absolutely certain I'm a wolf. Bold move. I think it's good to get another good selection of candidates though.

VOTE CRIMSONFOX


yeah I feel sad I haven't voted for you yet. But I had to work most of the day yesterday and still unpacking from a big move. Probably shouldn't have joined but what the hey...

[CrimsonFox]

I'll go for the "hasn't checked in yet" vote

VOTE mauboy

[Abe Sargent]

That I've never seen you and Abe in a game together before.

That's because DT is my Bek!

[JAG]

That I've never seen you and Abe in a game together before.

I think they played in one of the Cathedral games together.

[CrimsonFox]

I think they played in one of the Cathedral games together.


That I've never seen you and Abe in a game together before.

That's because DT is my Bek!

Kinda figured :) And saw that one coming :)

[Chief Rum]

Food for thought:

Most likely scenario: GE is the seer, as he says, and we got lucky with a BG block last night. Well, not even lucky--you have to assume the wolves go after GE, and the natural assumption is the BG would protect GE.

Could last night be as simple as that? The wolves knew the BG would protect GE. So they should have known going after him would have been pointless last night. So why didn't they kill someone else?

Or did they decide to attack GE anyway, like some kind of double blind, hoping the BG would overthink things and not protect GE, or that maybe the later reveal meant the BG would not know that GE was the seer?

Or did they choose not to attack at all? Or did they attack the Sceptic and it's like other WW games where the Sceptic just converts to a wolf?

Not having a kill last night seems a lot more complicated than it would seem at first view.

[GoldenEagle]

If they did convert the sceptic, I would lean toward it being DT. I thought his behavior was very strange yesterday with all of his weird vibes and getting weird vibes from people but not following up with them.

Either way, I have one more night at best.

[DaddyTorgo]

I still maintain that there's no way the wolves managed to change their vote in that amount of time after GE's reveal.

[JAG]

If GE's telling the truth, it's also possible they gambled that the BG wasn't around to change the protection order.

[DaddyTorgo]

If they did convert the sceptic, I would lean toward it being DT. I thought his behavior was very strange yesterday with all of his weird vibes and getting weird vibes from people but not following up with them.

Either way, I have one more night at best.

weird vibes? someone asked me a question jokingly (i thought) and i responded with what i figured everyone would get was a jokingly "certain" type answer.

[GoldenEagle]

And its standard night 1 WW play for the BG to guard himself. I timed my reveal as late as possible to try to protect myself a bit. Maybe the wolves picked a random person and there was no kill.

Or the BG got lucky and guarded the elf. It looks like wolves had a choice of whether the Fat Man in Red would kill on the even or odd night.

[britrock88]

time post voter votee #
22:57 159 Abe mauboy 1
23:21 168 brit DT 1
09:14 185 DT brit 1
09:26 188 Autumn CF 1
11:55 211 CF mauboy 2

1 mauboy - Abe (159), CF (211)
1 DT - britrock (168)
1 britrock - DT (185)
1 CF - Autumn (188)

[Abe Sargent]

DT, you and I have been in lots of games together, right?

[DaddyTorgo]

DT, you and I have been in lots of games together, right?

A fair number I'd say. More than 1 or 2, that's for sure.

[DaddyTorgo]

Cathedral I think someone said...probably the X-Men games too at least, right? Not to mention the games you ran...and probably a bunch more that I don't even remember.

[CrimsonFox]

Cathedral I think someone said...probably the X-Men games too at least, right? Not to mention the games you ran...and probably a bunch more that I don't even remember.

sure, sure. Just nothing in my memory. There might have been a game I've played with both of you but really this is the most active I've ever seen you, DT. And actually the least Active I think I've ever seen JAG.

[CrimsonFox]

sure, sure. Just nothing in my memory. There might have been a game I've played with both of you but really this is the most active I've ever seen you, DT. And actually the least Active I think I've ever seen JAG.


okay never mind about JAG. He just seemed quiet but has 17 posts. Seems like less. Maybe I just lost them in all the Abe sigs filling the page :D

[Abe Sargent]

That's because JAG had like a mega seven dola or something a yesterday hat inflates his posts, whereas you and I make crap posts with no meanign at all :)

[CrimsonFox]

That's because JAG had like a mega seven dola or something a yesterday hat inflates his posts, whereas you and I make crap posts with no meanign at all :)

au contrere...that 70's show theme song is NOT a crap post!

(Hello wisconsin!)

[DaddyTorgo]

sure, sure. Just nothing in my memory. There might have been a game I've played with both of you but really this is the most active I've ever seen you, DT. And actually the least Active I think I've ever seen JAG.

I won't argue that. Been away a long time, maybe my batteries are recharged. Or maybe in a game without some of the traditional "big talkers" I'm trying to fill the void.

[britrock88]

mauboy still hasn't checked in... but I'm inclined to think that VVs are the type most likely to forget to show up.

[Abe Sargent]

mauboy still hasn't checked in... but I'm inclined to think that VVs are the type most likely to forget to show up.

What's a VV?

[Abe Sargent]

I won't argue that. Been away a long time, maybe my batteries are recharged. Or maybe in a game without some of the traditional "big talkers" I'm trying to fill the void.

Yeah, no hoops or Danny - gotta make that up somewhere ya know?

[DaddyTorgo]

What's a VV?

vanilla villager

and i agree

[Autumn]

Checking in, probably out for most of the afternoon, then back later. I agree with JAG who said the wolves probably hoped the BG wasn't around at the end. So they would have gone after GE. That means something but I'm not sure what.

[JAG]

okay never mind about JAG. He just seemed quiet but has 17 posts. Seems like less. Maybe I just lost them in all the Abe sigs filling the page :D

I feel like I've been quiet even though I'm reading and thinking about the game. What are your thoughts on folks thus far CF?

[DaddyTorgo]

Checking in, probably out for most of the afternoon, then back later. I agree with JAG who said the wolves probably hoped the BG wasn't around at the end. So they would have gone after GE. That means something but I'm not sure what.

Interesting.

[DaddyTorgo]

GE held his reveal perfectly late. I don't buy that the wolves had time to redirect their night kill towards him AND the BG had the chance to redirect his block.

In fact, I'd bet my vanilla-villager ass on it.

And if they did, that means that there's a very very small list of people who could be BG or a wolf, and that list is me, Abe, and JAG.

So if you really buy that line of reasoning (by others) your vote should be on one of those three names. If not, then your vote shouldn't be on them.

[Abe Sargent]

vanilla villager

and i agree

I thought it was something veteran and I was racking my brain as to what the pe vet word was. Vulcan Vetrean? Viper Veteran? Victorious Veteran?

[Autumn]

GE held his reveal perfectly late. I don't buy that the wolves had time to redirect their night kill towards him AND the BG had the chance to redirect his block.

In fact, I'd bet my vanilla-villager ass on it.

And if they did, that means that there's a very very small list of people who could be BG or a wolf, and that list is me, Abe, and JAG.

So if you really buy that line of reasoning (by others) your vote should be on one of those three names. If not, then your vote shouldn't be on them.

Yeah, I think if the wolves were around, they would have gone after GE, no question. So either they did htat, and got blocked, which suggests a BG was around, or they were not around and ... got blocked randomly? Or got slutted. I have to go back and read this actually, I don't know if they get to pick who does the kill.

[Autumn]

All right, so they get to choose, so it could have been the elf last night. So it could be a block, a wolf-guard, or a forgotten order. Therefore the bodyguard may very well have a likely wolf, which could help us immensely eventually.

[JAG]

To keep the pressure on a big player yesterday...

vote DaddyTorgo

Can you explain why you voted this way?

[JAG]

Autumn, we also can't discount a possible sceptic conversion. EagleFan said we can assume regular type WW rules so that could be a possibility though it's not spelled out. Kind of a lot of possible options for what happened.

[CrimsonFox]

I feel like I've been quiet even though I'm reading and thinking about the game. What are your thoughts on folks thus far CF?

I tend to look at how people post and what I'm used to.
JAg is more quiet than usual and less analytical. GE is more talkative and questioning this game than ever before . DT is definitely more active than usual. Zinto is REALLY quiet although he used to be really quiet. So I'm guessing GE is less quiet as he is excited to be seer.


As for normal people, Abe seems to be acting like Abe. Autumn normally overanalyzes every move. mauboy even is typically quiet, even if he is active/paying attention. brit I'm not sure. HAven't played enough with him. Although he's been a bit quiet today. He is participating with the vote tracking. Still he seems like he's been fairly active in all games both wolf and villager.

And Chief, well, I've never been able to figure out Chief.

[Autumn]

Autumn, we also can't discount a possible sceptic conversion. EagleFan said we can assume regular type WW rules so that could be a possibility though it's not spelled out. Kind of a lot of possible options for what happened.

I'd be very surprised if that was a possibility. I don't think that's standard enough that a mod would likely include it without hinting at it, and it would be way too powerful for a game this size. So while I guess I can agree in theory that it's not ruled out, I'm not going to really consider it. But I agree that there's lots of possibilities. I know from running games that the village often runs in circles making up theories about some stupid mistake, so we do want to be careful not to do that. It would be nice if it led to more info though in the end, if it was elf-slutting (that is the new term I will use for this).

[JAG]

Seems like a fair assessment of folks, though some of what you're seeing with differences might be attributed to differences in schedule or motivation level. Plus we're five or so months removed from a game so it's hard to say what usual is for people now. But still, you have to give yourself something to work with or you're just picking blindly.

I've been trying to analyze things but I haven't really gathered anything that useful. Part of my reluctance has been if I assume GE = good, then there's a good bit to work with as far as a few cleared players, peoe who have voted for villagers vs. unknowns, but I'm worried about basing analysis off that assumption because if it's wrong, then the analysis could be dangerously misleading.

So really, all I know at this point is Simbo was good, which makes you look a bit worse for introducing him D1 (and DT to a lesser degree) and (from my perspective) Britrock is the only uncleared who voted for GE, which potentially looks bad for one of them, though that's a flimsy sort of case.

[Abe Sargent]

I tend to look at how people post and what I'm used to.
JAg is more quiet than usual and less analytical. GE is more talkative and questioning this game than ever before . DT is definitely more active than usual. Zinto is REALLY quiet although he used to be really quiet. So I'm guessing GE is less quiet as he is excited to be seer.


As for normal people, Abe seems to be acting like Abe. Autumn normally overanalyzes every move. mauboy even is typically quiet, even if he is active/paying attention. brit I'm not sure. HAven't played enough with him. Although he's been a bit quiet today. He is participating with the vote tracking. Still he seems like he's been fairly active in all games both wolf and villager.

And Chief, well, I've never been able to figure out Chief.


Whoo-hoo, got you all fooled don't I? ;)

[JAG]

Seems that if Britrick was a wolf, pushing a villager to 3 where he did D1 would be somewhat bold and unusual, unless another wolf was on the block and he was trying to protect him, which would make Autumn look worse (DT also, but then they've voted for each other to start the day, so it would be a little unusual).

[Zinto]

Well I am finally here for the day. If GE is the seer then it is really unfortunate that he was forced to reveal Day One.

[britrock88]

Can you explain why you voted this way?

Well, one reason was to have him keep talking. What I noticed yesterday wasn't much, but it was that he was around and active at the deadline. I could probably explain that away entirely by recognizing that he was a lynch candidate. He also moved his vote to save GE after his reveal, but who wouldn't, villager or wolf, if it was a last-minute thing where it's known that you're there?

In essence, I don't have much more than a gut feeling. I'm certainly not wedded to this vote, either. But I get stronger subjective feelings than objective evidence in WW.

[britrock88]

brit I'm not sure. HAven't played enough with him. Although he's been a bit quiet today. He is participating with the vote tracking. Still he seems like he's been fairly active in all games both wolf and villager.

This is my first WW game with a 9-to-5, so I'm stopping by to count votes to show that I'm keeping up. Posting about suspicions, planning, etc. takes more time and thought, so I'll save it for evening hours.